The Mismatch - Playoff Murray Is Real, Superstar Ant, and Where Do the Lakers Go From Here? Plus: Bucks and Sixers on the Brink of Elimination

Episode Date: April 30, 2024

Verno and KOC recap Monday night's slate of playoff basketball, starting with another Jamal Murray game-winning shot for the Nuggets, who eliminate the Lakers (01:06). They discuss Murray’s rise as a playoff performer and debate what the future holds for the Lakers, as well as for LeBron James. While the Lakers avoided a sweep, the Suns weren’t so lucky, as the guys discuss Anthony Edwards’s rise to superstar status while determining what’s next for the Suns (15:50). Also, they discuss the Thunder's dominance over the Pelicans in their sweep, and the impact of possibly losing Kristaps Porzingis for the Celtics (27:16). The guys discuss how impressive Jalen Brunson was in the Knicks' Game 4 win over the Sixers, as well as Joel Embiid continuing his poor postseason play (44:05). Next, the guys debate the Bucks' future as they are in a 3-1 hole to the Pacers, and discuss how the Magic defense has completely blanked the Cavs (01:03:57). Lastly, they discuss the awesome Clippers-Mavs game from over the weekend, and preview Game 5 scheduled for Wednesday night (01:20:47). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody, it's Austin Rivers from Offguard, and I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guide Pasha Giggi is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon.

And joining me as he does every Monday night from the ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.A. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Compel, Kevin O'Clymer, Kevin O'Candiland. Oh, how are you doing tonight, man? What's going on? Well, we just got done watching the Denver Nuggets send the Los Angeles Lakers to Cancun or Galveston or wherever they are going to head. 108-106 Denver is victorious and a game 5 they win the series 4-1

and a second Jamal Murray game-winning shot sends them to the next round wow it is a lot to it's a lot to think about

but I think number one on the list is this was an amazing basketball game back and forth back and forth down the final stretch. Big shot after big shot.

Offensive boards by Denver. Big plays all around. It was an awesome game. Front to back. It was amazing. I had a sensational time. I was kind of rooting for game six to be honest with you, Chris, because I was having so much fun watching these two teams.

Guys getting hurt. You know, KCP goes out in that first half and then he's able to come back. But, I mean, you know, with all of these games that we've been watching, every time somebody gets banked up, we're like, And, you know, if you check it social media, they're like, pray for KCP. And then by the second half, it's pray for LeBron, pray for AD. It's like every time somebody goes down, we are now programmed to think about the worst because we're losing Janus. We're losing, we're losing Damien Lillard, and we're losing Zion Williams, and we're losing guys just maybe Porzingis.

Like, we're losing all kinds of guys throughout these games. And so every time a guy goes down, now obviously, of all of the injuries that took place during this game, the Anthony Davis one is significant. I'm not sure what happened to his shoulder and neck area when he got nudged by Porter Jr. But he went down hard and they were working on him on that bench the entire time. And this was enormous because he was great. great in the game once again, you know, their best offensive option, in my opinion, and he wasn't able to go.

He clearly wasn't be able to go. I mean, he was basically a decoy the rest of the time. He did his best on defense, but he's basically a decoy the rest of the time on offense. Yeah, AD definitely was not the same guy before and after that injury, and it felt like that was kind of the moment, or one of the moments of the third quarter when the game changed. for the Lakers. And, you know, for AD, he's been sensational all season long. He's been

tremendous on defense, a defensive player of the year candidate, dominance on offense, consistent as a second guy behind LeBron James, and he's carried over into postseason. This looks like peak 80. And it sucks that in, you know, the elimination game, he goes down with that kind of weird injury stinger or whatever it might have been because it didn't feel like he was quite the same down the stretch of that game. And with that said, though, during that whole run in third quarter, Lakers fans screaming at their TVs for Darwin Ham to call a timeout, which has been a trend with him all season long as well.

And it seems like it's just more of the same in some ways. It's 80, you know, coming up with an injury late. It's ham, not without a feel for timeouts and decision-making in games. And ultimately, all that plays into the Lakers just losing again to Denver. I will say this in Darvinham's defense. Players or coaches rather want their players to play through that stuff. They're hoping they can play through it rather than having to stop the bleeding and take a timeout. And why?

Because the game may come down to a last shot of the game. And you might want a timeout in your back pocket when it matters most. and there they were. So he finally did take a timeout to try to stop the bleeding. But these guys always want to be able to keep their timeouts if they can because they never know when they're going to need them. And there it was. It showed up at the end of the game.

Murray hits that clutch shot. That is the perfect opportunity. I mean, there's a ton of time too. 3.6 seconds. You can get an unbelievable look if you get to inbound that thing at half court. He didn't have any. So Laker fans can be mad and bitched starving, hey, I'm all they want about not using a timeout then. But I'll tell you this, they wish they had a timeout at the very end, which they did not,

because it just led into this total mess that saw LeBron run into a brick wall and then Corrine Prince throwing up some garbage at the end of the game. look that Denver team you feel like especially in fourth quarters you just have to play downright perfect is how they make it feel down the stretch of these games like you have to score almost every possession because they are going to get to something that they want to get to and obviously Murray with those last five let me say something critical Aaron Gordon offensive really Oh, my God. He just slithered his way in there for those. He read the trajectory of the ball, the hustle, and the Lakers not getting a good body on him to hold him off either. They were so focused on Yokic, who, I mean, obviously he had one as well. He had 20 rebounds on the night, one big offensive rebound late in the game for a putback. They're so focused on him with two bodies. That's what allowed Aaron Gordon to sneak in there for those. And yeah, I mean, just big play is all around from the entire Nugget supporting cast. And Jamal Murray, doing this on, you know, one bad leg. He's limping around in that game. He's grinning. He's clearly not 100% the way he's moving, but still hitting massive shots down the stretch of the game.

Just, yeah, just an unbelievable performance by all of those guys collectively, again, as they always seem to have. Yeah, and obviously this playoff Murray thing, which he does not like people calling him playoff Murray, but that's exactly what he is. You know, we talk about this every season, and typically it was Jimmy Butler for so many years of us doing the podcast. but the difference between where you would draft a guy for the regular season

and draft a guy for the playoffs is the greatest gulf is probably still Jimmy Butler, but Jamal Murray has certainly put his name at the very, very top of that list. In fact, he might be number one now. Like the difference between the player that you get on an every night basis throughout the 82 games. I mean, it's crazy that anybody that just pays attention to NBA basketball during the playoffs, Kevin, I can't fathom them watching this guy and be like, that guy's never been an all-star? He's never made an all-star team. And yet he is one of the best players in the postseason year after year.

Just unbelievable, unbelievable performance. And so I guess the questions are immediately going to go to. What happens now? You know, we always look to the off season. You know, I think we think what happens now on one side is that they win the championship. Right. Like, who's beating Denver? Minnesota probably the best chance, which is the next round.

And so this could be the best series of the entire playoffs. And the de facto West Finals. Mm-hmm. Right? Because it could be. I think that... Though I don't want to rule out O'KC still. Oh, come on.

O'KC's not beating those teams. They're too little for those teams. They are. They're too little for those teams. But I certainly appreciate how much you defend Oklahoma City. That being said, those teams, I think,

probably are playing the West Finals in the next round. Of the teams that we have watched thus far, they've been the most impressive, I think, given who their opponents were. On the flip side, the Lakers, where do they go from here? Well, I mean, you need a new head coach, first of all. That's number one.

Number two, you do need to- I think Frank Vogel is going to be available. It does seem like you will be. A reunion? That's number one. You do need to find a new head coach. Number two, I do think it's worth looking at the mirror and asking yourself, how close are we with a new coach and with a trade for a star?

Because with the Lakers, you're always going to draw interests from superstars. If you don't go all in on 80 and LeBron, you're still going to draw interest in five years from the next star who's available. If you do go all in now and you don't have a lot of future picks, you're still going to draw interest from that future star. It's just a matter of how you want to build this thing out now versus. weighing your future. And for them, I think that also depends on who's available. If it's just Trey Young, I'm not sure he's worth what it's going to take from Atlanta as an upgrade over Dilo.

If it's DeJante Murray over at a cheaper price, maybe. If it's Donovan Mitchell from Cleveland, maybe. But they do need to find a D.Low upgrade because we saw the upside of Dilo and the downside of Dilo. You need someone who can tap into that upside of Dilo far more often than you get from Delo himself. So finding that guard who can do that, finding a new head coach, and just simply, you know, a better Torrine prince, somebody better from that forward spot. To me, those are the three priorities for the Lakers entering the soft season, assuming they want to continue moving forward with LeBron and E.D. And that LeBron also wants to continue moving forward with them. Yeah, the wing rotation was brutal. Hachamuro was horrendous. They need an upgrade on him too. After a really good

postseason last year. Tarim Prince, you know, it's Tarrym Prince, right? Austin Reeves was great. And Austin Reeves made a lot of big shots down the stretch of that game. So that was a positive for them. But I guess the big question is this.

It's three out of four years in the play-in. They, you know, they've played the, what we think is the eventual champion twice. They're, what, 13 and 1-13. now I think or 1 and 12 against this team. 12, yeah. Yeah, okay.

So 1 and 12 against this team. The question is, is it coaching, supporting cast? And then we just build out still around LeBron and AD. Oh, and that's the concern there is because LeBron will be 40 and will AD ever be as healthy and as dominant as he was this year? Or is this the peak? Is this peak value, AD? and then now he goes back to getting hurt every year like he did prior. And that's the concern where if you do build it out with this,

a team that has fallen short, that has been in the plan, that has gotten pummeled by Denver when, you know, Minnesota could get better. What if Anthony Edwards continues improving? Yeah, the spurs eventually are going to come.

The Oklahoma City Thunder are going to get even better you would think on paper. The Lakers, it's possible the window is shut here. And that's what the front office, and the bus family need to evaluate this summer. How much do the Lakers want to go all in around LeBron James and Anthony Davis? It's both sides. It's not just does LeBron want to return to the Lakers, which it seems that's his preference, but it's also do the Lakers want to resume building with him?

Those are the questions the Lakers out need to ask themselves this summer, because right now they could, and if they wanted to, they could get a haul for an Anthony Davis after the way he performed this season. They could decide to go in that kind of retooling route with kind of like a good, young, you know,

fun team that has promise and then build it out that way for the next star. They could take that path if they want to and their choices have indicated that they're at least leaving that door open by not making online moves, by not trading first round picks for role players

like past LeBron teams did, the Cleveland teams, the Miami teams, and the Lakers and the Earth, early years. Clearly, they're leaving that door open for that possibility. So I think both sides here need to evaluate if they want to continue their marriage together. And that's going to be one of the questions that define this entire offseason of many big ones that are coming. Well, let me tell you where that's going to be decided. That's going to be decided at the Summer Olympics. If LeBron can recruit some guys and make it work. Like when all the, we've talked about this. When all those

stars get together this summer, it is going to... It's late, though. That's late. The free agency happens first, though. It's still going to dictate what happens. These guys are all in the ask for trades mode, right? Most of them are under contract. And so it feels like when those guys get together during the summer, there's going to be some kind of maneuvering go on after that possibly.

But big questions for the Lakers, because it seems like the distance is pretty far for them between if the If the bar is, how close are we to being able to win a championship? Like, you're playing the team that won last year's championship and very well may win this year's championship. And you beat them one time and you lost to him 12 times. So you ain't that close. And I don't know if you just retool and decide like, hey, we want to just get a bunch of different role players and a different coach. What a weird series though

They're like not close and yet Man they let a lot Last year's Last year's was highly competitive too They just can't win Here's what we know They are amazing at playing the nuggets close They just don't win

But if you need somebody to play the nuggets closely The Lakers are your team The goat maybe All right, Kevin, we just talked about the Lakers getting sent into their offseason. Another team that has already been sent into their off season is the Phoenix Sons, who loaded up with all kinds of star power for this season, only to not win a playoff game. They got absolutely waxed by the Minnesota Timberwolves and Anthony Edwards,

who scored 31 of his 40 points in the second half. Put away the star-studded Phoenix Suns. And so now Minnesota is going to head on and play the aforementioned Denver Nuggets. The Conley Ball, the Tim Conley Bowl, built the Nuggets, built the Timberwolves. How cool is that? And now Phoenix is going to go play golf or play in the sand or do whatever. And. Play Call the Duty, Booker and Durant.

I mean, it's a great lesson in that sometimes we can be deceived by what took place during the regular season. They looked absolutely devastating and especially devastating against Minnesota during the regular season. And that was absolute fools gold because by the time they got to the playoffs, Minnesota was too defensively aware, too big, too strong, too much, and the best perimeter player in a series that included Kevin Durant and Devin Booker was on that Timberwolves team in Anthony Edwards, which the whole world has been saying we are watching a star turn into a superstar

before our eyes. And my God, what a series for Edwards and what the hell happened with Phoenix? How do we diagnose that? Let's talk about Edwards real quick, though, before we get to Phoenix, that meme of his split face with Michael Jordan and his own face is starting to feel more and more and more real. Like that evisceration in the second half was Kobe-esque, MJ-esque, the way in which he just dismantled the suns because it wasn't just the scoring, the pull-up threes, the turnaround mid-range jumpers, the big dunk that he had, you just sent them away. It wasn't just the block shots that he had on Booker. It's again, the playmaking, the decision making. He had a pass on that fourth quarter where he drove right baseline, drew the gaze of like three defenders

and kind of just sidestepped past Kevin Durant and wrapped a pass around him to Mike Call Me for an open corner three. It's just he's advanced in so many different ways that he really is starting to make you believe that he can become the face of the league as the best American-born player in basketball under 30 years old right now, but also that he could be really on an all-time trajectory. He's only 22 years old, and the way he's improved every year kind of follows a rapid but realistic and steady upward trajectory. I'm a believer in Ant-Man, and I'm a believer in the wolves and with Jamal Murray. Wait, don't go out on too big of a limb.

You're a believer in Anthony Edwards. Well, I'm just saying what I'm saying is I'm a believer in Minnesota to beat Denver. They can do it. This series will go seven. And it's because of Anthony Edwards' progress that has lifted a dominant defense and has made them a high-powered offense in the postseason. The dude has taken a real leap. And I think it's a good time to evaluate who this guy really is and what it means from Minnesota moving forward because it all seems real to me. It's not the first postseason.

He's been dominant and he's looking even better though because he gets better every year. We are going to have to find out because obviously they won our game against Denver last year. And so this will be a great barometer watching them play against them this year. Let's slow down a little bit because we may turn around and just realize that Phoenix team was not going to beat anybody. They were a mess. They were a mess. And then they lost Grayson Allen, which should not be as big a difference. deal as it is. But I thought that it was a great dichotomy between these two teams, right?

You had the star that took over games, obviously. That was not something that Phoenix had. But more importantly, you had continuity, them truly knowing each other on offense and defense. You had continuity, which cannot be understated or overstated. And you also had depth. They bring three guys off the bench, three guys everybody likes. Everybody likes Nah, Alexander Walker. Everybody likes Nasree, who is now sixth made of the year. And everybody likes Kyle Anderson, who's a plug and play on offense and defense, right? So they're an eight-man rotation.

They got three good guys they bring off the bench. And then those guys have been through a ton of moments together. They have a ton of minutes logged together as a unit. Then they had the playoff success, you know, or playoff games that they had last year. And it's a complete opposite of Phoenix. They have no continuity and no depth. And then you see it all fall apart the day after.

You got the terrible, the stories coming out about Frank Vogel. You got... Not even the day after. I don't even think they were in the locker room by the time Shams dropped that story. Well, and now... I don't know if you saw the Chris Haynes thing

about how there was a bickering between Vogel and the sons because he wanted a point guard. It's like, hey, let's just get that out there. The part of the level of discontent is because I wanted a point guard the whole time because every good team since, I don't know, the last 75 years of NBA history has had a point guard and I thought it would be better to settle us down to get into the offense. We stunk in fourth quarters all year long, all year long. and, you know, their idea of how they wanted to do basketball was to, you know, not have the ball out of the hands of Devin Booker or Kevin Durant.

And that's what having a point guard would do. And it was just so you got, you got people saying Frank Vogel's goofy. You've got Frank Vogel saying the front office is goofy. And you've got, who knows, saying Matt Ispia's goofy. It's crazy. I mean, it's all like, it speaks to, they played like a dysfunctional team, and now they act like a dysfunctional team

after they get ousted. It's a complete and utter disaster what's happened in Phoenix. And it's really sad. As somebody who, you know, well just dubbed them the bright future sons and has loved sons fans for a long time and have those feel good vibes of a team

that made it to the finals with McKell Bridges and Cam Johnson and DA. And now it's all completely. falling apart and it's miserable and it's not fun to watch and you feel like you have no hope because you don't have the rights to any of your draft picks until 2031 you don't have any young players with talent or value around the league you have an old whiny star who's not a leader in Kevin Durant Bradley Bale who's making jokes the day after and what good for good on him for making jokes after saying they won't get swept but boy you are terrible in that game for and then

Devin Booker, who is your bright spot on your roster. He is. But other than that, other than that, this has been a complete disaster since Ishbia took over. And there's not many outs, man. It's scary to think about what they're going to be and what they could look like even as soon as next year. Booker put up a fight in game four. He was a dud in the first three. And here's the deal.

Kevin Durant, you know, ran out Steve Nash, ran out Jacques Vaughn, ran out. ran out Kenny Atkinson, ran out Monty Williams. Like, he's going to, this is going to be a bunch of coaches now that are the Kevin Durant coaches. And if they get rid of Frank Vogel, I mean, that's going to be the seventh coach Devin Booker has had. Seven, seven coaches, Kevin. It's unheard of. and so they are uh you know there's the new owner syndrome he knew what he was doing he's smarter than everybody and there's no other way to look at it than a team in the second apron that's

been a fortune on them on that team and like you said where do you go from here you feel like you know, we'll probably see Kevin Duran on another team next year. That feels like the way out. I mean, wouldn't shock anybody, would it? No, you're going to want to hold on to a huge star in their prime like Booker. And good luck finding a land in place for Beal. So that's it. I mean, there's no other guy to, unless you want to just try to run it back with a different coach.

Maybe Vogel and Darvinham could just switch spots and just be. and they can both be coaches of aging superstars who are not good enough to be the best player on title teams though everybody wants to hold on to it and say it's still real to me, damn it. And then they're still good enough that you get fired for them losing. And so another one bites the dust for LeBron James

and another one will bite the dust for Kevin Duran. I think that's probably what's going to happen. but man, oh man, was that gross? And Minnesota, they have certainly gotten my attention, and I am much more. I don't think that they will beat Denver, but I certainly think they have a chance. Certainly think they have a chance

and that they are a real team, and I think that's going to be the de facto Western Conference Finals. I think whoever wins the Nuggets Wolves is going to be the Western representative in the finals. That would be my guess. It's going to be an absolute battle. I can't wait. Oh, that series is going to be absolutely unbelievable.

The road to the NBA final starts now, and new customers on Fandle can go on their own playoff run with $150 bucks. Just place any $5 bet, and you'll get $150 and bonus bets win or lose to use during the NBA playoffs. You can bet on three-pointers, maids, over under totals, first basket score, and so much more. Just head over to Fandul.com slash mismatch to get started. FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA.

Must be 21 plus in present in select states or 18 plus in D.C. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-HALP.com. First online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued is not a drawable bonus bets that expire seven days after a seat. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.Fandul.com. All right, Kibb, let's get to the other games that took place tonight.

We'll start with a series that ended as the New Orleans Pelicans are headed to Cancun or wherever they are headed. I guess Barclay sent them to Galveston, Texas. What a great clip by Barclay. It was a great clip. 97 to 89, the Thunder disposed of the Pelicans. and so the Pelicans head to Galveston, I suppose. Thunder are going to be waiting around for a little bit. It seems like to figure out who they are going to play in the next round,

either Dallas or the Clippers. You know, I've got to be honest. I thought this is exactly the range in which the pelicans needed to play this game. Try to make it a mess. Try to junk it up. Try to make the Thunder. uncomfortable and the story remained throughout that entire series, New Orleans could not score. They didn't score 50, they did not score 51 points in a half the entire series.

So I guess that'd be eight halves because there's four games. They never scored more than 50 points. And obviously tonight put up 43 in the first half, put up 46. in the second half, you're not winning games, scoring 80-something points, which is what they did again tonight. And so I actually thought that it might be instructive for some game tape to see how they were able to junk it up and slow it down. But mega impressive by the Thunder, they have disposed of their first round opponent. Yeah, I mean, after game one, I said to you, I don't like Pelicans' chances. I know they played that game close, but I just think Oklahoma City was going to overwhelm them with talent.

because without Zion Williamson on the New Orleans side, OKC has the three best players in the series. Sheigildas Alexander, everybody knows. Chet Holmgren, everybody knows. And then Jalen Williams, the often overlooked guy. He was the one who had some incredible sequences in the fourth quarter. He had the three-point pull-up, followed by a defensive possession where he just completely, you know, stuck like glue to C.J. McCollum running around screens,

corralled him. And then when Brennan Ingram got the ball just helped over and swiped at the ball, it drove the ball in transition, drew a foul. It was a dominant two-way sequence as part of a dominant fourth quarter for him. And I felt like it just showed the disparity between J. Will and, or J. Dubb, I should say, and Chet Holmgren and Chigold's Alexander versus C.J. McCollum and Brennan, who was horrible tonight. McCollum actually had a solid game, but Ingram two for 14, eight points just completely bottled up by Lou Dorton, the game as part of what has been a horrific

series for him. And it seems like the number one player that the Pelicans are going to have to look at trading this summer one year ahead of his free agency. My goodness, two for 14 in a game that's trying to keep your season alive. I mean, you just, you kept waiting for him to like have the breakout, right? We know what an offensively talented player he was, but as you mentioned, Dort just swallowed him up the entire series.

And regarding Jalen Williams, brother, if his little brother is half the defender he is, I know they're promoting Cody Williams as possibly elite level defender

at the next level. I mean, he was a menace all night defensively. The swat at the rim that he had on Ingram on the chase down, I mean, he was just, he was everywhere. He was everywhere. He's so awesome. He is the perfect compliment to Cheyieldis Alexander because SGA is that team superstar right now. But Jaylon Williams in his second year, the leap he made from year one to year two. He was really good, his entire rookie season. But then now in year or two, the way he's built on that, to me, he is a great example of a player. You have one of these in Memphis and Desmond Bain.

Just because you draft a guy who's older does not mean that that player cannot continue to get better and possibly be on in the sense of stardom. He was a later bloomer. He was drafted at 21, turned 22 last year as a rookie. He turned 23 this year in April. So he is on the older side, but he's still young in developmental terms. And 19 points per game this season, great two-way player. I think he has a real chance of becoming a 25 point per game guy. Will the usage be there?

I mean, that depends. There's a lot of moths to feed on Oklahoma City. But he, without a doubt, has that ceiling as a player. And OKC had a major steal on him, drafted him with a 12th pick in 2022. I mean, my goodness, what he's become. Yeah. And it's funny you bring up pain. I see so much of the, of the Memphis thing with them, with the, with having

Shade Gildes Alexander as the John Morant role. And you've got Desmond Bain and Jala Williams. And you've got to get home green as the Jaron Jackson. And then it's like, now you just got to figure out the other pieces around those guys. But that will for sure be their core that they are building out around. Like you're deciding on three guys that you got to pay and then we're building out around that. I'm talking about as they go into the future. Obviously, they still got guys on low contracts,

but that's for sure going to be their core going forward. And this was a super impressive first round for them. The real test is obviously going to be when they draw either way, a veteran team in Dallas or playing against Los Angeles Clippers in the next round. I also want to take a quick second just to mention. This was a series that has not been a highly entertaining series. they threw it on NBA TV tonight. Obviously people are going to be watching Celtics.

Then they were going to just funnel into the Lakers game on TNT. But NBA TV had this broadcast with Kevin Calabro. And hearing him on this game made it a thousand times better. So intense. So into it. I love him. You know, he's a mismatch guy too. I met him.

You know, I've always loved Kevin Collabreiber. And I couldn't help but think as that was playing out. You know, he was the old time voice of the Sonics and then didn't move when they moved. So that's like the old franchise in Oklahoma City on one side. Still lives there now in Seattle. Well, no, he's the Portland guy now. But he did all of the Lillard and McCollum, you know, a lot of those great calls. And so on one side, it was like the former franchise where he had like, you know, gave his heart and soul for so many years.

And then on the other side, McCollum, who I know he's had a relationship for so many years and called those like great McCollum games against, you know, the nuggets back in the very beginning of those, that rivalry, etc. But I loved getting to hear him on the call. I was glad NBA TV used him and it certainly made that game all the better. We're actually going to talk announcers in the other game that took place tonight because my God, was Stan Van Gundy getting paid by the negative word about the Celtics? Like, I don't, I look, I always think fans, you know, can sometimes overreact to, and I don't, and I'm not on Celtics Twitter, as it were. But I can't imagine what they were thinking. I mean, it was like, he was disgusted with the Celtics the entire night. He was like, basically, if they were playing.

Anybody else that was worth a shit or could make any shots, they'd be losing because they're cheating the game. They're not even, you know, their level of intensity is low and they're just, they're just giving up all these wide open threes. Even better looks than they gave up in game two when they scored all those points. And I was like, golly. I mean, they're up by like 20 something at some point. And he's like, I just do not like the way the Celtics are playing tonight. Oh, my God. I got to admit, Chris, I didn't hear a word of it.

You muted it? I didn't have the TNT broadcast on. I was largely listening to the OKC, New Orleans side, because I do like that Portland broadcast. Lamar heard really good on the color commentary as well. Their whole broadcast in Portland's good. But when you said he lives and didn't leave Seattle, I was like, wait a minute, he's still like his face there.

Well, Colabro, who was with him tonight? It was Brendan Hayward. Brendan Hayward. Yeah, yeah, Brendan Hayward. Yeah, yeah, Brendan Hayward. I mean, they were good. They were good energy. Like, like, there's just an energetic game, and they, and they gave an energy.

That's right. They were announcing. It was really good. But I did not hear the Celtics heat for the podcast. Oh, my God. So it's news to me that. They got to hated the Celtics tonight. The whole night.

You just talk about how crappy they are. Even, did he even bash Derek White? No. He didn't deserve the end one of that dunk. Let me tell you. I don't even want to try to do a stand band. in fresh. I'm not going to try. I swear to God, he did nothing. Bam out of bio did anything wrong. It was unbelievable. That was like the culmination was the Tatum turning his ankle on Bam out of bio on the after the play shot.

And he was just steady defending. He's like steady defending out of bio. He's like, what's he supposed to do? Just let Tatum take a practice shot. And I'm like, Jesus Christ, man. Like what is going on here? The guy could have really gotten hurt. Anyway, it was amazing. 38 points, though. Well, and here we go. Nobody talks about how nobody talks about how good Derek White is,

as I've told you. The NFL's Keenan Allen. Everybody, now tomorrow, it will give everybody the opportunity to talk about how nobody talks about Derek White, which is my favorite narrative that goes on during the NBA season. Number 42 on the ringer rankings. He was awesome.

he was awesome he showed up I'd love to see the the end of it like as when I was part of it you know until midway through last year with the voting on the rankings

I'd love to see where the the voters all have Derek White it's Bill Simmons Rob Mahoney Michael Pina Chris Ryan Justin Barrier and Zach Cram that vote on

the rankings I'd love to see where like they each have Derek White 42 feels pretty close to where I think he belongs you know

you should vote on that just because it's already going to be attributed to you anyway. Well, they don't want me involved. Oh, they don't? No, that's a good idea. I complain too much. I want, I want more than 100 players in there. I think it should be 300 players.

Yeah, you love complaining. Yeah, right. They just said, get out of here. Enough with you. Enough with the complaining. I want weekly updates. Yeah, I got you. I'd have gotten your ass out of there too then.

But yeah, I'm so thankful that somebody's finally going to talk about how nobody talks about how Derek White's good. Because that'll be the talk of the town. Look, the Celtics thing, analysis on the heat game or the series is inconsequential. The only thing that matters is this MRI that they're going to do on Porzengis tomorrow. Truly. It's horrible. I mean, it sucks. do you think their

Eastern Conference finals fate depends on that news no I do not I think the Celtics could get through the Cavs or the magic without Christavs forzingus can they beat the Knicks

yeah that's what I meant in a conference finals right that's where actually if it is the Knicks it's where it would show up the worst not having that size size would show up the worst because look, he may, he may, look, we don't know, he could turn

into a shrinking violet in a series like that and they could still just demolish you on the offensive boards, right? They've done it to heftier guys than Porzingis. That being said, they have to have his length and size against a team like that. He is the X factor for Boston. He's the one who actually gives them a chance to make the finals. And, you know, I don't think they'd beat Denver, but they'd at least have a shot to at least be competitive with Porzingis. I think he is just the mismatch weapon, no pun intended with our podcast. KP is the guy who can stretch out a big that doesn't want to be. He's the guy who can post up a smaller player and score an elite level.

Chris Stap's Porzingis is just the guy who adds room protection and size and versatility to your lineup. and the ways in which you can play. He gives you that other scoring weapon so you're not overly reliant on Tatum or Brown. KP is the biggest X-factor that was acquired last summer. I said that at the time, I still feel that today. It's all been about can he stay healthy? Boston over the course of the season did a good job. I felt at load managing him.

They were able to do that anytime he had little nagging injuries and help him get through that and recover and get back to 100%. But it seems like right now at a time in which, that he needs to play. He's dealing with some stuff, man. He turned the other ankle on the other leg, the play before he had that non-contact injury with what looks like his calf. They say he's going to get him in an MRI on Tuesday. He posted on X that he's fine and he'll be back. Maybe that's true. But for Boston, it wouldn't shock me one bit if he needs to miss a little bit of time. You know what? He can. He can miss the rest of this heat series. It's probably only going to last

one more game, two more at most. And then next round against the calves or the magic, you'd like to see him get back at some point. Those are, you know, especially Orlando's defense is active. They bring a lot of size and Cleveland does too with Mowgli and Allen. So you'd like to have him back, but he can still miss a little bit of time if necessary. But it's of the utmost importance that he is healthy for a conference finals and the NBA finals.

Wrap them up and bubble wrap up if you have to until then. But like they need KP in order to actually have a shot at winning the finals. He is the key for them. Yeah, that's what would be worrisome because he can say, hey, I'm fine, I'm going to be back. You still, you've got to be really careful with it because it feels like, you know, that these things can all end up being related. Once you start favoring one thing, another thing can get hurt because you're putting too much strain on it. And that's almost like what it felt like tonight, right?

That after the ankle thing, then you start favoring the other. And then next thing you know, it pops. And the only thing I know what he posted, bro, he looked like he was hurt. Oh, I know. He knew right away something. Right away. Really wrong. It was very reminiscent of the Zion thing.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. It doesn't look like much, but the player knows. Oh, no. Right? Because they're just, they get this freaked out look and then this like immediate anger. And usually there's like a hobbling around or something. something like that.

But if it's an immediate anger, that's like, oh, I know what just happened. I've felt this before. And so here's hoping, fingers crossed for the Celtics at Porzengis, because this is truly a war of attrition, what's going on in the playoffs. It's like who can't stay healthy? Because, I mean, at this point, by the time we get to the conference finals and then the NBA finals, we're going to see who's got. Who's got players that can get out there and play?

We've lost like 20 guys. And hopefully, uh, hopefully, you know, you'd like to say hopefully that's it. But it's every night we're watching these games. Somebody else goes down.

But that's obviously a big one for the Celtics. We're just going to have to wait and see. All right, Kev. So let's get to these three Eastern Conference series that are going to be going on Tuesday night. You pick it. Which one you want to start with? Let's start with.

Sixers, Knicks. All right. Sixers, Knicks. It's 3-1 Knicks. Right now, if you believe the 76ers are going to come back in this series, you can make a lot of money because $100 bet on Fanduel would win you $540 if the Sixers were able to come back and win the series. Of course, we are in this spot now because of a monster effort out of Jay. Blurton in the game four that took place in Philly.

And I got to be honest, that performance and the performance by the New York fans that showed up in Philadelphia were both just absolutely off the charts. I know that Sixers players were not too thrilled with what took place with the amount of New York representation. that was there and how loud they were, but there were portions of that game, especially in the fourth quarter where Brunson was making some shots, where if you didn't see the logo at mid-court, you would have thought they were playing in a game in New York. That's how loud it got at some points.

And one of the reasons why is because the Knicks got rid of the orange on their home court. I love that orange. I miss it. And the paint, I do wish they kept that on their court. So look, they got every loose ball. They got all kinds of offensive rebounds.

I mean, this was the Knicks to a T, which was hustle, heart, determination, all of it. They had 15 offensive rebounds that they turned into 21 second chance points. More than half of those were in the fourth quarter. They had 11 second chance points in the fourth quarter. and Ubre had a dunk on this maxi drive and then this good pass to Ubre with five minutes and four seconds left. That was the last field goal that the 76ers scored in what was a nip-tuck messy game. They didn't score another field goal for the last five minutes of that game.

And obviously, a tremendous amount of attention is paid to Joe L. Embedd and these fourth quarters that he has had in this series thus far, which is honestly downright disgusting. It's like less than 20% from the field, less than 15% from three, seven points, not even a rebound. And he's had two rebounds in 40 fourth quarter minutes.

Now, he's made 91% of his free throws, but outside of free throws, just getting nothing done. with great, you know, guys got superstar status, MVP status. People are going to expect him to deliver. And he certainly has not delivered down the stretch of a few of these games. Yeah, I mean, he had his 50 bomb.

And he was outstanding in that performance. But game forward, fortunately, from Philadelphia, Nick Nurse had to make the tough decision. And that decision was playing and beat for the entire second half. because in this series they've been so bad any time and Bede has been off the floor that he felt like he had to play his seven-footer who's had injuries, who's had issues, and has a history of getting fatigued at the end of games, and he decided to roll with him. And I think it ultimately looks like it was the wrong decision to not give him Bid a breather. At the same time, I do kind of agree with what Richard Jefferson said on the broadcast that even though, It was a five-point win for the Knicks.

It might have been 10 if they did sit and beat even just for two, three minutes of the second half because they're a minus 37 in the 32 minutes in the series that he's been off the court. There are plus 34. In the 160 minutes he's been on. No, let me continue. I saw you put this up. This is goofy. It is.

Let me continue. Go ahead. How is it goofy? Because, how's it? They're getting ravaged on defense and they can't score on offense without him. Okay. They've been absolutely horrific in those minutes. I'll let you finish.

Okay. And so all I'm saying is that Embedd sucked at the end of the game, in part because he was fatigued. And yes, he should have been better anyway because that's a part of being a superstar. You need to be better in those moments when you're tired and you're in your 41st, 42nd, 43rd, 44th minute. He underwhelmed. He stunk. He's one of the reasons why they lost the game in the fourth quarter. but ultimately it did speak to an even greater issue facing the Sixers,

which is why they chased Andre Drummond at the deadline, because they felt like they had to find someone better than Paul Reed, better than Moabamba, and they don't have that guy right now, and it put a lot of pressure on a guy just coming back from injury. Okay, here's, and this is where we break, and this is why the individual plus minus stuff, to me, is goofy, okay? Who would you say, well, I don't even know, all right,

the guy, I could present this, any different ways, and it's going to depend on your opinion of the player if we want to play this game, right? So I could say, what game? Okay, on off. If we want to play the on-off game. I mean, those are the facts. Those are the facts, though.

Okay. They have like a 61 offensive rating in the minutes with him off the floor. Okay. He's their best player. Terrible. Yes, and the other guys. But it's a team sport. Yes, and Maxie has underwhelmed in the minutes than a beat is off the floor.

his efficiency has fallen off a cliff. Harris is doing nothing. We already talked about Buddy Hill earlier in the series, how he's not even getting minutes now. And Paul Reed has been a non-factor on defense. The Knicks are getting 64% of their shots in the paint when Reed is on the floor compared to 46% when Abed is on the floor. So it's like they're getting to the rim at will.

Anytime Embed is off the floor, they get tacked the basket. Nothing's working for them. None of this is an issue if he's delivering in fourth quarters. none of this. Okay. And what all I'm saying is, just to wit on the whole on off court, right? So I could tell you that right now, let's just say the Clippers series, right? The Clippers are plus 25 points.

They're winning big with Russell Westbrook on the floor. They're minus 27 with Russell Westbrook off the floor. They need Russell Westbrook on the floor. You don't believe that. I don't believe that. Nobody in the right mind believes it. are minus 17 with James Hardin on the floor. They're plus 20

with James Hardin off the floor. So now I present to you. So should they be playing Westbrook instead of Hardin? Like I'm saying, we can play you a court. This is why I'm saying it's goofy. But Chris, this isn't this isn't just about the plus minus. That's not the only number I use, is it? Did I give you the numbers with the paint percentage that the next are getting?

Come on. All I think that fucking matters is that he's shooting 17% in the fourth quarter. That is ridiculous. And I acknowledge how he struggles in the fourth quarter needs to be better. All I'm saying is that all I'm trying to illustrate is that all I'm trying to illustrate is why Nurse made that decision. Because they're getting pummeled when he's off the floor. So he made the decision to play him the entire second half. That's all I'm doing is ill.

illustrating that decision. That's it. They also, in the fourth quarter, had every offensive rebound go against them, right? As we mentioned, and they had 11, they had 11 second chance points of the fourth quarter go against them. I mean, the whole fourth quarter was a mess. The Knicks are now 22 and 3 with Brunson and O.G. and Nobby in the lineup. That's incredible. 22 and 3. They are 13 and 0 in Madison Square Garden. And O'GN and Obie had 16 points, 14 rebounds, and three blocks in the game.

And because of the Hartinstein problem, foul problem, he was drawing the assignment on Joe L. Embed there in that fourth quarter. And man, did he hold up? I mean, now you know why Tibbs wanted this guy, loves this guy so much. Like we talk about sometimes a defender that can really defend all five positions. And sometimes we overstate that. This guy proved, right? Like, I mean, he is as good as it gets. And to have such an unbelievable switchable defender is pretty great.

And on the Brunson front, you know, we got to start talking about in the upper echelon of star conversation because it was kind of a problem in the first two games. but and this is where nurse has got to make his biggest adjustment. I think you'll agree on this is you can't have M. Bede's man go and set that screen and then have Brunson turn the corner and either be able to pull up in the mid range or just drive all the way to the basket. We know that M. Bid's not nimble enough.

And they tried to bring M. Beed farther out to try to, try to attack it in many cases sometimes, it's either going to have to be the point of attack defender fights through that screen. End of story. Or you're going to have to help off shooters. And if they bomb you out from three, then they bomb you out from three. And the Knicks obviously have shot pretty well from three. But what can't happen is this just free for all that Brunson's having where he's not even

making threes and layups for the majority of his points throughout this series. He's just destroying them in that middle area, which is something we thought they would have success with coming into the series and really didn't have as much, obviously, in the first two games. But these last two, they've gotten cracking more with it. And they've got to figure out, what do you think they should do on that? Or what? They can't just have MBD in the drop, right?

If he is going to drop, like they tried to bring him out. I just feel like they've either got to have that. top defender has got to get past that screen, or these guys are just going to have to cheat off of shooters to cut it out. Let's be honest, the series is over. You think so? The sixers aren't coming up. The sixers aren't coming back.

Embed is too limited. There's no chance. It's over. Tobias Harris is a zero. Buddy Heald's offered nothing that they would have hoped for. He's even reluctant to shoot threes. He has only made one shot in the series. The series is done.

What the hell happened to him? The next are the better, the better, deeper team. And with Philadelphia, the hope with them was they have an eight-game winning streak to finish the season. They're looking good and Beads looking better. He doesn't. He definitely reaggregated the knee early in the series. He's dealing with the nerve stuff on the side of his face. You're not going to win a series about your best player.

We see that with the Pelicans and Zion. We see that across the league in the playoffs. You're not going to win a series without your best player. player. And I think for Philadelphia here, we're entering a point of I'm already looking ahead to the offseason. I know there's still a game to be played. I would be beyond shocked if a team is tough and as gritty and as talented as the Knicks were to blow a 3-1 lead, I would be floored if that actually ends up happening. Shocked especially because as you said, Chris, Abid has sucked ass on the fourth quarters, whether that's due to his own limitations as a player or

whether it's due to the fact that he is hurt and coming back from a knee surgery. Maxy, as I said, has not been effective in the non-ambide minutes in the way that they needed to. Need him, too. His production has fallen off a cliff, but at the same time, how much more can you ask from Maxie when he's played every minute but 19 minutes in the entire series? He's played almost the entirety of every game. It's a lot to ask of these guys, and they're just not getting the support they need when Harris is a schlub out there

offering nothing. So I think with Philadelphia against the Knicks, I'm seeing a dramatic difference in terms of where help is coming from from the Knicks. You're getting it from Miles McBride and Josh Hart and Isaiah Hartenstein up and down the entire roster. O.G. and Nobie attacking the rim like a bowling ball. It hasn't mattered. The Knicks are deeper, better, quicker, healthier across the board. They're going to win the series. There's nothing the Sixers can do from a justice standpoint except re-evaluate the summer and use their caps face and draft picks properly. Well, and you got to hope that MBE stays on board for that, right? Because they lost hard and for nothing, and it showed up.

The door is actually open now. I mean, I would be frustrated. If you're Joelle. Yeah, you got rid of James. Maxie's awesome. But Maxi's still very young. And he's going through this for like, you know, the first time in like high, high stakes, right? Where it's like.

He's playing really well. I mean, as the guy, it's a different role. And so you mean, you mean like in the non-imede minutes when it's just him. Also, like, I mean, it'd be helpful if he had, you know, some assistance. Also, just somebody else to get you home. He's not, Embed has not been a good fourth quarter player. Like, he's a guy that wears down. And so who's that perimeter guy?

Most of the time, like, who's that perimeter guy that's getting me home? And you put him next to Ben Simmons. obviously we know how that went. You've had a mix of James Hardin. We know how that went. And now, I mean, like even yesterday, Maxie, it looked, you know,

during the headlights at times. And it's like, this is what we talked about. Like, you should be aggressive because, and look, maybe Joel will preach patients and he'll be fine with, you know, go get Paul George, go get DeMarieuze, go get whoever.

But if you had a perimeter guy, guy that could then take on that burden of, all right, here, this game is close. We don't have to. It's not Joelle Embed or bust. Like, he's actually going to be helpful in this situation, but the pressure then becomes on the perimeter guy. But you gave that pressure to a guy that is not, this is still. He's a kid still.

He's a kid. He's a young player. why the Sixers are going to pursue Paul George. They're gonna. Will they get him from the clippers? I don't know. I mean, that remains to be seen. We'll find out.

But they're gonna pursue Paul George. And they're gonna try to get him because he's exactly what they need is like another guy who can handle the ball, create, add size. He is like everything that they would dream of Tobias Harris being in the current role. They would be tied, if not up in the series right now if they had Paul George instead of Tobias Harris. That's how effective he'd be for them. I bet Daryl's kicking himself.

I bet he is. For not making a trade. Because of the way it's hashed out. But who do you, like, would you, so like the Bulls and the Sixers had talks involving Andre Drummond, the Sixers thought they were going to get Drummond. And then it's been reported by Michael Scotto that the Bulls pulled out and then started asking for three second round draft picks for Drummond. Do you think Daryl still should have made that deal?

Because to me, personally, I don't think Andre Drummond is making a damn different. in this series. Probably not. He'd help a little bit off the bench, but I mean, I still think you're getting roasted. In those non-embeat minutes might be helpful. Against this specific matchup, he would have helped. Yes, in this series,

yes. Yes, but to me, like my, in my dream front court partner for Joe L'Aid is Nick Claxton from the Brooklyn Nets. He's a free agent this summer. The Sixers have $60 million in cab space. I know they're going to pursue Paul George, but Nick Claxton is,

well to me he would be fascinating for two reasons. A, he can fit with Joel and B, you can play them next to each other. Look at Minnesota, Gobert Towns. Look at Boston. Horford Porzingis across the league, Cleveland, Mobley, Allen, like different degrees of quality. But so many teams are using two bigs. Sixers could play Claxton as one of the league's better perimeter defenders from the big man position with Embed. Or he can play as the backup behind him. Offensively, you can play. You can play. can space out and be more often when claxon is on the floor because claxon's more of the lob guy the rolling hard guy but claxon himself can do some d-h-o stuff on the perimeter as well he can

facilitate some which would still allow him bid to be inside so to me claxon is the perfect front court fit in the way he can play with and without joan labed even without a reliable three-point shot because mbine is the guy that has that three-pointer with that flexibility to me he's the guy I'm using that money. I'm making my trade to fill that space with the dynamic scoring wing. Well, I'm saying both. Well, I think the price is going to get high on Claxton. I think so, too.

But if you have $60 million in cap space and you commit 20 of that to get Claxton, you might get them. And then you still have 40 left over for PG-13 or another trade, something like that. The reason I said I would have been, I'd be kicking myself, is because you never know the way this stuff's going to break, but it would be you versus Boston if you would have added a dynamic wing scorer and done pre-agency.

You'd have been mega-aggressive because you didn't know the bucks aren't going to have Janice and Lillard. You didn't know the heat aren't going to have Jimmy Butler. You didn't know the way this is all going to break. But who? I got it, but he didn't prepare them to win this anyway. They're not even prepared to beat the Knicks.

This is just a waste. It's a wasted season. It's a wasted season because indeed got hurt and he's not what he was prior to that injury. Wait, what's the difference? He's just not the same guy. He's not moving the same. You can see it, especially on defense. He's just not moving with the same agility. I mean, he had 50 in the grain. I know. I know. He was incredible. He was incredible. But for the most part, he has not looked quite as mobile in my opinion. He's definitely losing his legs too. And I think that shows up with this three-pointer. He's just, I just don't think he has his legs. And I do wonder how much the face issue is bothering him.

I know I game three points to that it's not. He had 50, but I can't imagine not being able to blink. Like, doesn't affect your vision, your eyesight. I don't know. I just can't imagine it doesn't affect you. The other two E-series, well, let's go ahead and knock out Bucks Pacers, because this is, I talk to you about this. earlier in the year.

And I said, I'd rather have it ripped away now. This is when Morant got hurt. Ripped away now that ripped away at the end. Because it sucks. Root for a team all year long. And it's like, you think if you're the Bucks, if you're a Bucks fan, you're like, we got a chance at the title. And then it just all gets ripped away.

Yonnas hurt. Lillard hurt. And now the Pacers are one win away from their first East semis in 10 years. You know, they had that stretch. from like, I think it was 16 to 20 where they got knocked out in the first round every year, but they have not been to the second round of the

Easter conference playoffs since 2014. No Lillard, no Janus, ridiculous porter portis ejection, which I don't say ridiculous because they ejected him. I said ridiculous for him to put himself in a position to get ejected.

That was just, that's madness when you've got your two best players out. Like you need all hands on deck and Bobby Portis getting ejected was just so irresponsible to be on comprehension. He has hurt the bucks at, and I know Bobby Portis is a fan favorite name. He got some six man quotes and all that, but he has been so detrimental on defense this season. And offensively, he's so up and down sometimes with his decision making with the bucks right now. You're looking at this supporting cast minus Janus and then

minus Dame in their most recent game. And I think they need a lot of changes with that supporting cast. Jay Crowder has fallen off a cliff. Pat Conantin is not the same guy. Bobby Portis is not even what he was just a couple of years ago. And the big question that the Bucks front office is going to have to ask themselves is, what do you want to do with Brooke Lopez? Because to me, I think assuming Yanna sticks around, assuming Dame's

sticks around. You're definitely going to want to keep Chris Middleton. Lopez is one of your loan assets that could actually have value around the league. I mean, Andre Jackson's a nice young player. I think I was right about saying he should be getting minutes. He's looked good when he's gotten minutes in the postseason, but he's not getting you a ton back. Brooke Lopez, even though he's 36 years old, he's still a piece that could help a lot of teams. Look at OKC if they want their big. It could be Brooke Lopez. If San Antonio wanted a big next to Wemby, There's a lot of teams that can use of Brooke Lopez because there's only one Brooke Lopez. For the Bucks, I wonder moving forward if it makes sense for them to optimize Janus and Dame together

by using Yannis more often at center. And Brooke Lopez is the piece that I'd be reevaluating here from the Bucs standpoint to get younger, more versatile. Because right now this team is the oldest in the league by the numbers. They look the oldest in the league by their health, and they sure look like it on the court as well. I don't know if John Horace is going to be back next season, but whether it's your best friend, John Horst, or somebody else running the Buck's front office, they get an overhaul of things, man.

Like, that supporting cast looks weak as hell, and they don't have a lot of assets to make it better. 31 to 21 to the third quarter of the last game, and it never got closer than six after that. Miles Turner was amazing with the seven threes and 29 points. Miles Turner looks like a better playoff big man than DeMontas Simonus. No, he doesn't. Calm down.

I'm not saying that with any intentions other than saying what's true. You don't agree with me? Shut up. Come on. No, I'm serious. Calm down. You don't agree with me.

No. He's averaging 24 points per game. Come on a series. He said like 80 double doubles in a row this year. I said better. Chris, I mean, make sure, I want to make sure you heard me correctly. I said better playoff big man not regular season big man

playoff big man he's played four games against a much team without yada son of the coupons I mean I'm just all I said yeah you'd view the I'm not saying he might be

he might not be but he sure looks like a better playoff big man because of the floor spacing because of the room protection how is that not fair I'll tell you this you'd view the subonis thing a whole lot different if Deering Fox doesn't break his finger last year, a whole lot

different. They still might have lost the game. They lost in seven to the Warriors and frigging Curry had 50. So, so bonus would have been in the second round as well. Yeah, I mean, he also got stomp by Draymond Green last year, too.

That's not his fault. I know, I'm not saying it's his fault. I'm not victim blaming in that way. Golly. All right. I mean, no, I'm just saying Turner looks awesome. Okay, he does.

He looks sensational. Well, look, there's nobody guarding him. He's standing 30 feet from the basket by himself because your boy, Brooke Lopez is stuck to the ground. That's the benefit of having a center who can shoot threes. There's not a lot of guys who can do that. Like I said, with Brooke Lopez, he would still have value despite his age because he's one of the few bigs that can effectively shoot and effectively protect the rim. And Turner is another one of those guys. despite some of his flaws as a player.

I'll tell you what, though, next round against the Knicks will be an even tougher test for Miles Turner, but so far he's passing that test, and I've been very impressed by him. Yeah, PS, not only Yon is not there. His backup got thrown out of the game in the first, like, turn to do it. It wasn't just last game.

Turner's been great every game. Very impressive. I mean, I've been up and down with Miles Turner over the years. Like, I've felt sometimes he's soft, lacking toughness, but last season he got way better overall. And this year, he's replicated that again and got to give him credit for his improvement as a player. They got some really talented Biggs with Tim and Ziacom for sure.

Speaking of Biggs, the whole series is Biggs in Magic Cavs. It's 2-2 now, just a weird series. This is like two teams that feel offensively deficient when they are on the road, and yet at home looked much, much better. Now, the magic looked way better. They had scored 83 points and 86 points in the first two games in Cleveland. Then they went home and scored 112 and 121. The Cavs, on the other hand, they turned the tables and scored 83 and 89 in the two games on the road,

whereas they didn't really have big scoring outputs even in those home games. They played good defense, but it was 97. and 96 points of the first two home games. Second half of game four get outscored 61 to 29. And through four games, what we never in a billion years would have imagined is that the magic have outscored the cabs by 30 points from the three point line. they were 17 for 72 in the first two games. And then they shot over 35% both times at home.

So is this a, can this travel now? Can they make some threes while they're in Cleveland? Because they made threes while everybody was cheering for them in Orlando. And, you know, for the Cavs sake, a major part of that is they signed Max Struz and George Nying to be able to knock down some threes for them. them, those two players have made four three-pointers combined, combined through four games. That obviously is no, that's no relief, as they say.

If the whole idea is we want to be able to run this pick and roll and kick out, you know, they only have two players that have been in double digits every game, and that's Donovan Mitchell and Jared Allen, who Jared Allen has easily been their basketball, player or second best player so far in this series, which is nice for him, considering it was an unmitigated disaster playing against the Knicks in the playoffs last year. But not nice for the Cavs if he's your best player over Mitchell. It has to be Mitchell. Well, and Mitchell?

I don't know if you saw that graphic. I mean, look, I forgive you if you didn't. They're showing these games on, you know, frigging Discovery Channel at like 10 in the morning. Has any series ever got more buried than this in life? Which is a shame because it's been such a strange series. Yeah. And your boy Franz, people are missing the Franz show. I've been waiting for, I don't know, five minutes for you to say Franz.

Well, he did have a huge game in the last. 34 points. He defended Mitchell on defense as well. 23 points in the second half. So anyways. He was awesome. Top 20 upside. Do you agree with me?

No. You know there's new players that come in the league every year, right? Top 20 upside. I'm sticking to it. 30. So they have this graphic. And it's like basically that Donovan Mitchell is like the king of game fours. Okay.

And I'm like, oh, well, this isn't good news for the magic. And they put this graphic up. It's like he averages 30 points per game in game fours. It's Jerry West, Michael Jordan, Donovan Mitchell. And then he comes out in the first half. He has 18 in the first half of the game. I'm like, oh God, game four Mitchell.

And then he had zero in the second half and was 0 of 4 from the field. What the F is that? What is that? Seriously. He had 18 points in the first half. He's 0 for 4. Zero points in the second half. Game 4, Mitchell turned to.

into like game four Beal or game for Tobias Harris you know what I mean I mean after game one you and I did our podcast on the Monday night after opening weekend and I said to you well

feels like Mitchell might be back right he had a great game one after two really good games to finish the regular season and it has been back to that worrisome level of Mitchell in the three games since like he's played 13 games since he got injured.

And he's really only had those three good games. Scoring efficiency-wise, pop-wise, explosiveness-wise, he has not looked quite the same offensively. And if I'm rooting for the Cavs and I'm watching this team score 97 in game 1, 96 in game 2, 83 in game 3, 89 in game 4, I'm not feeling a lot of level of confidence

and this offense being fixed in any way, shape, or form. and I know a lot of Cavs fans are frustrated with J.B. Bickerstaff, and understandably so, but it all comes down to your best players. This is true with every series we're talking about, whether it's Zion being out or whoever it might be, Janus with the Bucks, or a best player being limited by injury with Embed in the Sixers or Donovan Mitchell with the Cavs. It's hard to expect your team to win against the team with Orlando that had the number three defensive rating for the entire season.

And the number one defensive rating since the All-Star break, they have been incredible on defense all year long, and they've gotten even better as the year has progressed. And offensively for Orlando, the only question is, as you said, can they actually travel their scoring on the road? The other thing is the calves, like, we were so excited about like bright future calves a few years ago, watching Garland and Mobley operate, and it's like, man. Oh, my God. Garland's falling on.

off so hard. And I just told you the only two players they have in double digits every game are Mitchell and Allen. It's like they have Therius Garland and Evan Mowpley on their team. How the F are they not even getting me 10? 10? That's crazy. Crazy.

We were so excited about them. Hell, Garland was an all-star. Garland looks more like a ball. backup point guard level player right now. People voted Evan Mowgli. Bill Simmons, I'm talking to you. Ryan Rissillo, I'm talking to you. Over Jared Jackson, Jr.

voted for Evan Mowgli for defensive player of the year. I would encourage you to go back and watch game four. Good God. That's embarrassing. I don't know what the hell happened to this guy, but defensive player of what? No. No.

No. And your boy, Franz. Woo. Please. Please tell me. Tell me what you think. All right. Two, here you go.

You got a duo. I guess I'll accept that noise. No, no, no. I'm about to give this to you. You've got a duo 22 or younger that have both scored 30 points in a playoff game. Okay? Mm-hmm. So you got Franz.

Apollo, right? Both 22. That's been done four other times. You ready? John Morant and Jaron Jackson Jr. Shay Gilgis Alexander and Lou Dortt. Wow, Lou Dort. Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. Wow. And LeBron James and Boobie Gibson. Boobie Gibson. What a throwback. I love Baby Gibson. He's so funny. Twenty-two or younger. and score 30 points. And they have now, and they have two of them. They have,

they have both Paulo and Franz Wagner. And, you know, they, well, here was the trick, Kiff. It's like,

we know how dynamic Franz can be. We know how dynamic Paulo can be. You had to not just allow Cleveland to build a wall. You've got to be able to loosen them up by knocking down some shots. And also being able to pull. play in transition rather than just play in the half court. And it's exactly what has happened. Somehow, if they're able to hit over 35% of their threes, which they have,

now all of a sudden those guys can totally cook. In those first two games, I told you, they went 17 for 72. This is pretty easy to figure out. Can they make some threes to loosen up the defense and then be able to get the requisite stop so that they can go because those guys i mean look you get them both out on the open floor they are hard to deal with um it's just the you know we saw in the first two games it became like a you run a play we run a play both these teams suck in the half court you know you don't want to that's not how they need to be getting stops and moving well i mean or they end up looking a lot

better in games three and four though because they made some shots yeah yeah in part because of Ben-Caro going off and then Franz going off. Right. But, I mean, like, those guys alternating, now the key for the magic is, can you get those guys going together? Can both Ben-Caro and Wagner have big games on the same night? And ultimately, though, I do think the balance between those guys in game three, Wagner did defer to Ben-Carro, and then in game four, Ben-Caro deferred to Wagner.

And, like, those guys have a selfless, a desire and a willingness to defer to the guy that's going off. And Paulo definitely did that in game four for Franz, who was just scoring on anybody from anywhere in the floor, backing down on the post, hit and pull up, threes, cutting behind the defense on inbound passes.

Wagner was doing it all. And defending Mitchell on some switches. He was doing a good job. That like 10-point run, he went on by himself or whatever in the third quarter. I mean, he had 23 in the second half of his 34. He had 11 at halftime.

It was like the reverse Mitchell. Mitchell was 18 in the first half, zero in the second half. Franz, I mean, 11's still good for that first half, but then just exploded in that second half. The cat, here, let's be honest. 29 points is disgusting. That was on the worst halves. Oh, my God. Bro, what, how?

Despicable. Despicable. Dispigable. All right. And then those games are all going to be going on Tuesday, those E-series. We do need to touch on a game that is not going to be played until Wednesday. It's a long break. Could you look more forward to Game 5 Clippers Mavs?

Oh, my God. Dude. I'm going to have to go to this game. It's in L.A. Game 4 was epic. Yeah. Epic on Sunday. That's Sunday afternoon for anybody that was watching that,

I still cannot believe that the Mavs clawed all the way back from down 31, Kyrie hits one of the greatest shots I've ever seen in my life on the layup. Oh, that layup was the Matrix. Unbelievable. Suspended in air. I didn't do that. The still shots and the overhead shots are just crazier.

Yeah. So for him to do that. And then, I mean, the roof is coming off this place. That crowd was amazing. And the roof is coming off. They've clawed all the way back from down 31. They have flipped the game. I can't,

I still can't believe the Clippers won that game. I know. Then Paul George hits that three and James Harden hits that floater. Like just boom, bang, bang after that layup by Carrie Irving. Oh my God. I mean, the level of shot making in that fourth quarter was just like sublime.

As a basketball fan, it was just beautiful to watch. Amazing. And look, Kids should get super dinged for the defense on Hardin. I mean, he's blowing past your guy. You've got to at least make him see somebody at the free throw line. Like, not having a big in there and just not even having like the help to come over.

I'm not kidding. Kevin, he could make that shot a hundred times in a row, literally a hundred times in a row. If you're going to let him take two dribbles and then just, just hit a little five-foot floater? Like, how after the second time does somebody not step up? You can't just let the guy blow by and just floater line you to death. I mean, that was crazy. Did you see the stat I post, the video I posted with the screenshot?

It was like, it was hard in taking a floater. And then Maxie Kleba, like, just not contesting the shot at all around the basket. How? And that was like the seventh one. not the first one. It was like the seventh one. You know, it's like, you know, and look, honestly,

this is where veteran players and veteran coaches show up. Because what will, a veteran coach, like, what they'll do is, I don't want to pick on anybody that's still around.

So let's just say, we'll say Matthew Delavadoe, but he's not a rap, right? So like, Doc Rivers, those old Celtics or something, right? What they would do is they would get a switch,

and they'd get a switch on Delavadova, and then Paul Pierce would score. And so then they'd come down the next time, and they'd look over to him and he'd be like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Same. And then they'd just do it again. And then they'd go, no, no, no, no, no, same. And they'd get the switch on the Delvedova. They'd do it again.

Next thing you know, Delvedova's got to get taken out of the game. But like, the old school guys, the veteran coaches and the veteran players, if it's something that they know works, they will pummel you with it. over and over again until you do something about it. We don't have to reinvent the wheel here. Let's not get cute. Here's our advantage. Until you adjust to this, I'm going to keep doing it.

And kudos to James Harden because he's like, well, shit, if you're going to just let me drive past the guy and hit a floater every time. And Mavs never did anything about it. That was crazy. Crazy. The funny thing is with Hardin is, like, I pulled up his numbers on synergy. And during the regular season, Harden attempted a total of 64 floaters, which equates to 0.9 floaters per game during the regular season. And then during the playoffs, he has taken 2.5 floaters per game, 10 total.

So he's like more than double the amount of floaters that he's taken per game. Obviously, he had the far majority of them in that most recent game. but with Hardin, the adaptability kind of bringing the floater back after not using it a heck of a lot this season, nearly as much as he did during his Houston days, he's brought it back. And that's in part because I'm sure Ty Lou might have

informed him of this. He's like, hey, they're giving this to you. Go back to it. And the Mavs kept giving it to him and kept giving it to him. And I just can't understand why I know some Mavs fans were annoyed with PJ Washington. I think the game plan was to force him in that direction. which is one of the reasons why he was blowing by.

But the lack of protection around the basket when he continued to go for that shot, I mean, kid had a quote after the game. I don't want to misquote him exactly, but I'm paraphrasing here. He's like, we'd rather give James Harden a floater than have him take his step back three. And I just,

I have a hard time, like, wrapping my head around that because I understand three is more than two. but open floater versus heavily contested stepback three at the end of the fourth quarter when you're playing and your 35th minute, there's a big difference in shot efficiency between those two looks for Harden. If you look historically or even just this single season,

you don't want him taking the wide open floater. That's assonine. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. I just can't wrap my head around. why kid actually feels that way. He doesn't. He doesn't mean that.

There's no way he means that. I don't know. Look, it's hard to... I don't know. It's hard to believe that this series will not go seven games at this point. Isn't it? Like, this is great. It's back and forth, back and forth.

Stars being stars. Luca. Kyrie was unbelievable. And Luca's like, look, Kyrie has been unbelievable. I've got to do better. Terrence Man is giving Luca some issues here or there, but we know how good Luca is.

And I want to give the Clippers' organizations of credit on this because Clippers get beat up a lot, A, for having the heart and resolve to be able to win that game. But more importantly, I don't know how many people caught this. I don't know if you caught it. but when they ruled out Kauai Leonard out of that game, I don't remember a time where I have seen it reported that Kauai Leonard was going to be held out of the game

according to, and then them quoting the president of the organization. But Lawrence Frank, if you go back and look at like the Woj tweets, it said according to Lawrence Frank, and I was like, as soon as I read it, I was like, what the hell? Like, you just don't hear this.

This would be like, according to Tim Conley, Carl Anthony Towns is not going to play tonight. Like, everybody gets all their news from the coach. Like, that's the way this goes. And yet it was Lawrence Frank has, you know, said that Kauai Leonard has been ruled out for blah, blah, blah. They don't know when he's going to come back or whatever. And to me what that said. And, you know, Ty Lou was even quoted as saying, you know, Kauai's heartbroken about not playing or whatever.

To me, that was Lawrence Frank making the insanely hard decision. And taking it off of Tailu as to say, hey, man, I'm not going to make you do this. But this is an organizational decision. And I'm putting my foot down. And we are not going to play him tonight. Hopefully he can get healthier. Hopefully he can get better. Hopefully the next time he hangs on the rim, he's not scared to land.

but this can't be. You know, we had a flow, and then we tried to get him re-involved, and it went to hell. And that is a hard, hard thing to do. Maybe easier when you've already given the guy $150 million contract or whatever, but I thought it was very, very telling that Lawrence Frank was the one quoted on that. because to me that means that call came from above and that's kawai wanted to play and they said no what's better for the team is for you not to play and that could that could really backfire really back especially if they would have blown a 31 point lead and they don't play kawai leonard but you know

sometimes you got to make really hard decisions for the greater good and to me that stood out to me for real. Yeah. I mean, they still need him to win the championship. They do, which is why it's a calculated risk here in sitting him now because the offense is flowing better. I mean, their defense in the first half, at least, until they started blowing the lead was awesome. Kauai has not looked like the same guy. He's been detrimental to them. So it was the right decision still despite flirting with disaster. I mean, flowing a 31 point lead is terrifying, but it was the right decision that came away with the victory, but they have to find a way to get him right.

They have to, because if they do get past Dallas here, then you get a round two against a tough young Oklahoma City team. You need Kauai Leonard to be that killer in those games. And without him, I don't like their chances to make a deep run at all, unfortunately. Implementing him on the fly, though, was not working. Tough, man, tough, tough, you know, very tough.

I mean, this series is nowhere close. to over. Oh, I can't wait. It's two to two. And I mean, we'll see how Jason Kidd reevaluates on his side of things. We, you know, we saw what the Clippers did. Maybe now Jason Kidd will look, go back to the drawing board and say, yeah, you know what? I should have put Derek lively in there at the end. He had a great game. I should have added his size that that would have been more beneficial than the spacing, the theoretical spacing of Clebe. He doesn't really shoot still, even though he's hit some shots. I think Lively should have been out there in the end of that game. Yeah. And Hardin and Paul and Luca and

Karee all four simultaneously having like just monster moments. So fun. Luca hitting a step back. Kyrie hitting that layup. Paul George getting that frigging crazy ass step back

three from the wing. And then obviously just the Harden masterpiece in that fourth. Awesome. To be able to get the moment. Unbelievable. I mean, Hardin so good. Hardin. I mean, he, that,

down the stretch of that game was vintage stuff in a really positive way, the positive vintage Yeah, yes. And Luca, Luca, I'm still waiting for him to have a sensational game. I know he's had moments, but the four games, 11 for 26, 11 for 26 again, seven for 25 and the win, and then 10 of 24. He hasn't had a game shooting over 50% from the field. He's shooting at 38.6% from the field in the series, 26.5% from three.

Luca needs the heat up at some point, I would think. Man, I'll tell you this, too. Terrence Man does a good job. He does. He's got size, length, toughness. He's making life hard on him. Having a really good perimeter defensive wing is just essential. And I think that's why, like, you know, that's the drop off.

It's like he doesn't need that many shots, but like that's, you're replacing it with Kauai who took 17 shots in the game three that he came back for, right? Like, I think they're better with Terrence Man right now. Terrence Man is better than one-legged Kauai. Obviously, I agree with you, to reach their full potential and what they would want, they've got to get Kauai back in there. But just for right now, especially when you're dealing with Luca and Karee and everybody switching and all this kind of stuff, Terrence Man is filling the bill.

As long as Hardin and Paul George keep on. on scoring like that you know who could really use terrence man right now the sixers and maybe they should have waited out a little bit longer and maybe they get terence man in that deal instead of you know robert covington uh maybe no no guarantees the clippers would have coughed them up but you know it seemed like ownership and morey just wanted to move on and get rid of hardin and and get that over with instead of letting it, you know, continue on. But boy, oh, boy, there's a reason why they wanted Terrence man in that deal. And there's a reason why the Clippers were like, no, we're keeping Terrence, man.

And you're seeing all of that right now is paying off for the Clippers. That's for sure. He'd be Garden Brunton right now. You better believe that. Can you imagine? Yeah. All right. Look, these series are good.

Hopefully we're going to get some game six. Well, for sure, get some game sixes, but hopefully we get some game sevens out of these series. Obviously, we will be reconvening on Thursday night. Thanks to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. And Kevin, I'll talk to you on Thursday. Enjoy the games. Must be 21 plus in present select states or 18 plus in D.C. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit Fandul.com slash RG. In Colorado, D.C., Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey. North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont.

In Arizona, call 1-800 next step or text next step to 533342. In Connecticut, call 1-88-78-977-77 or visit CCPpG.org forward slash chat. In Indiana, call 1-800-9 with it. In Kansas, call 1-800-5-22 4,700, or visit KSgamblinghelp.com. In Louisiana, call 1-8777.7. 770 stop. In Maryland, visit MD Gamblinghelp.org. In West Virginia, visit 1800 gambler.net.

In Wyoming, call 1-800-5224,400. In Massachusetts, visit Gambling Helpline, MA.org, or call 1-800-327-50 for 24-7 support. And in New York, call 1-8778 Hope New York or text, Hope New York.