The Mismatch - Post-Draft Stories and Getting Ready for Free Agency

Episode Date: June 28, 2022

Verno and KOC return to give their reaction to how the NBA draft shook out (01:20). With free agency starting up this week, the guys dive into the hottest stories leading into Thursday (13:02). They discuss the Nets drama, where Deandre Ayton will go, John Wall to the Clippers, and more. While Russell Westbrook and Draymond Green calling out Skip Bayless is fun for Twitter, the guys hope Dray evolves his podcast skills to discuss basketball rather than calling out people (34:07). Lastly, Steve Clifford returns to Charlotte and Verno makes KOC’s day (43:39). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, Rob Harvilla from 60 Songs That Explain the 90s here to inform you that we are back with 30 more songs because the 90s were super long and had a ton of rad music. Please join us every Wednesday for more 60 songs that explain the 90s only on Spotify. Welcome to The mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, A.K.K. Kevin O'O. Kavanaugh. Kevin O'Connor! Kevin O'O. Kavanaugh! What's going on, this? Tuesday. How you doing? Made it through the NBA draft. I listened to the 5,000 part podcast you did with

Bill Simmons and Ryan Rosillo attempting to understand what the Knicks were doing as it was happening in real time. Very confusing. It was a really fun, it was a fun series of podcasts to listen to as you guys chronicled through the NBA draft. Of course, free agency is about to start this week in the NBA. We're going to get to all of the big stories.

But one quick recap, now that there's been a couple of days to decompress from the NBA draft, and I know you've been on the phone a lot with people, what seems to be the biggest story out of draft night? Is it simply that the number one pick was Palo Bancaro, which was so surprising to everybody that it sent everything else into motion after that. I mean, hell, you're looking at mock drafts one and four, right? We didn't even make it to five before all the mocks were virtually wrecked. I mean, with Paolo going one and Keegan Murray going four.

So was all the talk I would imagine about just the top of the draft and the way that played out? I think part of it's that for sure, like some of the surprise, I guess, at the top of the draft. But also, I think there's people that are talking about how so much of the picture is incomplete. Like you mentioned the Knicks and the confusion on draft night, well, what are they going to do with that cap space? Teams like the pistons, they absorb a little bit of money. Or does that mean they get Jalen Durenne? Does that mean now they're out on Aiton and what does that mean for who are he's going to sign? And also like with somebody like John Collins with the Hawks,

there's a lot of talk about how he's going to be traded before draft night. He's out. He's out. He's out. Oh, then nothing happens. And now we still have some lingering hawks, spurs stuff that's out there. And, you know, San Antonio could open cap space as well if they wanted to. If they were to move Murray, that they could be opening cap space and suddenly become a player in free agency for who knows, Bridges, Aiton, you never know.

So I think some of the talk is related to, well, that's what happened. What does it mean now, considering the moves that we saw happen on draft night? But absolutely. So there is still some talk about, you know, surprise. What did you think about it, Chris? Ben Carrow going to Orlando. If you were a Rockets fan, would you be disappointed not getting Ben Carrow instead of Smith? What do you think about the top four?

I would not be disappointed. I'm a Jabari Smith guy. I would have taken him number one. I think, well, Bekero thought he was going to Houston. They all thought he was going to Houston. He didn't work out for Orlando. They thought that Houston's going to clean it up, which they had already moved out on Christian Wood.

You know, they're going to, John Wall, now that's been fixed. We'll see what happens with. Kevin Porter, Jr., who they had some problems with. But, I mean, like, that they were going to, that it was going to be those two guys, right? That they were going to have Jalen Green and they're going to have Palo Bancaro, and they're going to have Shen Gune and some of these other young guys, and that they're going to move towards the future together.

I think that Paulo and that whole group thought that he was going to be going to Houston. And so, I mean, I think that everybody was surprised about the way it played out. If I'm Houston, though, I would not be disappointed at all. I think they got a guy that is a 100% sure-fire, sure thing. There is absolutely no chance

that Jabari Smith is not going to be good. None. He is skilled. He is huge, and he has a crazy motor. Like, those guys just don't fail. Now, is he going to be the best player out of the draft? We'll see. But I would be stunned if they didn't get a great player.

And I do think that in a league where shooting is at a premium, now you're looking at it a little bit different. I don't think anybody should be disappointed. Look, you should only be disappointed if you didn't wake up after the draft and end up with Palo Banerro or Javari Smith. Or how about Or Chet Holmroom? Or even then,

are you a little disappointed for OKC? I just don't, I don't look at Chet on the same way as I do the other two. Understood. I have them third

behind them too. Yeah, I just have more questions, right? I have a very difficult time seeing the other two not being really good. And even though

it's not a large percentage, like if, You told me Chet was just okay as a pro, I don't, if somebody had that opinion, I wouldn't think they were crazy. I mean, in fairness, it's not crazy to think, it's not fair for me to think anybody's crazy if they have an opinion about a guy ending up okay. Look, somebody's not hitting. Yeah, of course.

Somebody's not going to be what we think they are, right? Didn't Ryan say it on part six of eight on draft night? that, you know, 50% of these guys are going to, you know, suck, right? It's true. It's just the truth. Half of them are going to suck. Maybe not the top four, but in, you know, the top 30 players or so. Yeah.

And we very rarely have a situation where all of them end up being good, even at the top five level, right? Well, even then, though, I mean, you say Javari Smith is probably going to end up really good, Apollo has a game built to last a long time. Even the worst case of Paulo Bencaro, you know, healthy, he'll be in the league a long time. Chet, you know, I think the injuries, you're right. But even then, Chris, he's still going to be someone who's a lob threat. He's still going to have a length around the rim.

He's at least going to be able to have a long career, if healthy. Kegan Murray at number four, he has a game built to last a long time too. Knockdown shooter, versatile defender. I mean, there's a foundation for him to have a long career. So the top might have long careers. It's just a matter of the upside. It's, you know, I think at least this year after that. Because even with Keegan Murray, I thought it was a little,

I mean, you love Jaden and Idy, but I thought the reaction to the Kings taking Keegan Murray over Jane and Ivy, not necessarily on our pod, but like just in the overall NBA universe, I thought it was a bit much, the response to Keegan Murray. I honestly don't think it was about, this is my opinion. I don't think it was as much about Keegan Murray as. a player as it was the value of that pit and that it is that player. So why could you not-

Like the potential of that player you mean? Like the upside of that player. Yeah. Why could you not get something from Detroit? Why could you not get something from somebody that coveted that pit? Even the guy's right behind you. You know what I'm saying? I think that because Ivy was there on the board,

and then once Keegan Murray went off, it was an absolute sure thing what Detroit was going to do. I think that, I think it's just the way you played it is the more surprising thing to people, not necessarily a demerit on Murray as much as how you played that out. We don't know all the offers, though.

We don't know all the details. And we don't know what was out there. It's like I said, I said this the whole time, and I don't feel any differently after draft night. If I were a GM, I would have taken Smith and I would have taken Ivy and I'd have lived with it. Like those are the two guys that I would have been scared not to draft that I would think like this could get me fired.

Because I just, I don't foresee a situation where they're not spectacular. that kind of elite level of athleticism, you know. And Smith's already an outstanding defender that tries every possession. Like those guys, I mean, to me, can't misses, can't misses. And the Ivy thing is, I mean, you watch those tapes, and it's like, you can even pull them up on YouTube. And there's times where you're watching it and you're going, there are nine guys that are going one speed and one dude. that's going at a totally different speed than everybody else. He'd grab balls off the rim.

He's at the other end finishing, and there were nine guys between him and the other goal. Freaky. Freaky stuff. And so I just think that gives you such an advantage when you get to the next level. I don't know. That's just where I stand on it. I mean it may end up being wrong.

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's just silly because all the talk on draft, I understandably so. Ivy is clearly the higher upside-looking player for all the reasons they're stating the explosiveness, the flashes, like he could be insane. He could be an unbelievable player.

He could be an all-star. Keegan Murray is more like, hey, he's good. Yeah, he's good. You know, upper-clothman. Yeah, he's solid. Yeah. But like sometimes those guys end up continuing

to get better too. Or in the right context, what they offer is vitally important to winning basketball. And with Keegan Murray, I feel like he's a safer, a safer really good player than Ivy's a really good player. You know what I mean? Like Ivy is higher upside,

but there's a higher percent chance that Keegan Burry's really good for really long and a winning situation than Jane and Ivy is. I think. Is that fair to say? Like, do you know what I mean by that? Yes. I mean, to me. So I get it for the Kings from that perspective,

because it's not like he doesn't have theoretical upside as a late bloomer. Right. could end up being an extremely good player in the NBA. I'm not down on Keegan Murray. Yeah. It's just the highs of Ivy, right? Yes. You know, with what he could become as a lead guard and in your offense.

I think there's a lot more superstars that or big time star players that look like Ivy than look like Murray. That's what I'd say. We'll say it'll be really interesting with Keegan Murray. I look forward to seeing if he's able to quickly show why he was the right pick. Like in Summer League, at least, I mean, short-term returns and all that.

Well, I mean, he just got drafted into hell. So even whatever player he was going to be. I am rooting for Keegan Murray is my point. Sure. I thought the draft night reaction was a bit too strong. It made it seem like A, Ivy is a sure-fire star. He is not.

He's not. Ivy needs to improve as a shooter. He needs to improve as a decision-maker. And he very well- admired. He's in an amazing situation. next to Kate Cunningham. It's a great system that preaches defense. I mean, that could be really good for him.

But also, don't under A Keegan Murray here. Okay, don't under A Keegan Murray. All right, we got a lot of news to get to. So last year, in the first 48 hours of free agency, there were roughly 120 new contracts and extensions that were signed in the first 48 hours. So we are about to hit a blizzard of a. activity coming up later in the week. But yesterday and today there's been a bunch of news that has come out. So let's just hit it one by one. First thing is all of the drama with Katie and

Kyrie and then all this reporting surrounding it. By the time it got to lunchtime yesterday, I thought Kyrie Irving really might do the most insane thing I can remember, which is opting out of $30 million, basically, to go playing with the Lakers. It was all so crazy. But Kyrie Irving with his statements, actions, et cetera, over the course of the past couple of years, I think led people to believe that if anyone was capable of doing the outlandish, that it very well might be him.

So anybody else, you'd be like, oh, come on, that's ridiculous. Whereas there's at least a shred of, yo, is he really going to do this? Because you don't know. He might be capable of something that other guys aren't. So you have that, and maybe Kyrie Irving's going to be a Laker, even though they can't really find a signed-in-trade deal.

He could opt out. And then, oh, my God, KD could be on the move then, too. And then Sean Marks got a total disaster on his hands. And then by, I don't know, mid-afternoon, it's reported that Kyrie Irving is picking up the option to be in Brooklyn

and now what? I guess they're going to go in with Durant, Irving, and Simmons. Do you think all that is just done now? This morning, it seems like it. Yeah. I mean, we'll see if we'll see if things change

in the coming week or two with potential sign and trade, or not sign and trade scenarios, but now opt-in in trade scenarios, since he did opt-in. There's still a possibility of an extension as well. There was reports this morning from Shams-Sherrani about how those extension talks went with the Irving sides,

asking for some short-term incentive-based deals, and the net's declining those before he ended up opting in. So there were negotiations happening on a short-term deal, and it seems like, according to Shams, Kyrie is now in a position where he wants to opt in and win and prove himself as a true full, you know, five-year supermax player for this coming season.

And, I mean, we'll see about that because I'll tell you what, Chris, on paper, if you think about the Brooklyn Nets, the paths they could have went this summer or still could go this summer. One of them is, you know, you bring back Kyrie with Kevin Durant and Ben Simmons, and you do what you wanted to do, you know,

and reshape the team around them with the role players and all that. Maybe you bring back Claxton on a two-year deal. Maybe you bring back Bruce Brown and so on. The other path was you trade Kevin Durant for the greatest return in NBA history. And you have some other team's entire set of draft picks and you're going young. You're building a new team around Ben Simmons. And maybe you're still pretty good. And that's actually not the worst thing in the world.

But the path they went, though, is a quicker path to a championship. And I still think, like I said at the time of that trade for Ben Simmons, I still think with Kyrie Irving, Ben Simmons, and Kevin Durant, that team could be awesome. Like you could see the best version of Ben Simmons ever playing with a guard like Kyrie Irving. I still think that. Like those teams are ability to play some small ball with Katie and Ben Simmons

in the front court. It could be nuts, dude. It could be a great team on paper. It just feels like a NBA 2K fantasy at this point. then it does something that could be amazing in reality, considering all of the issues that everybody knows about with all of those respective players. It just seems too unrealistic to ever be a championship team.

And yet on paper, I'd love to see them run it back for one more year. Those guys haven't played enough together. Katie and Kyrie, that is. And obviously with Ben Simmons, they haven't played together at all. I'd love to see it happen. I can only imagine how those incentive-based talks went. Like, Sean Marks is probably sitting across being like, uh,

wait, what? We're going to pay you more for playing basketball? Is that what we're doing? Or are we going to, do we need to pay you more if you're going to play games for us? Like, that's what the 36 million bucks is for.

Like, well, we got to give you more money to incentivize you to play. Like, you don't play. When is the last time, like, all right,

fine, how about this? We'll give you a, we'll give you a five million more bucks if you pay seven, 70 games. Like what are the odds of that? Like one in a billion? Well, let me read what it was. So his stepmom

is his agent. And Sean is wrote here. The Nets and Chatellia Riley Irving worked through various proposals including a two-year max extension that included incentives based on games played, as well as a four-year max that included

two years guaranteed and triggers for years three and four based on the games played in years one and two. And those, to be clear, those are from the Nets side. And then Shams writes, citing sources, Irving showed a willingness to accept an incentive-based deal before a final counter was made to the Nets, a short-term contract extension protecting both sides

with a player option. Brooklyn declined. That's what Shams wrote this morning on the Athletic. Oh, okay. Well, I mean, Brooklyn's sitting at the table and saying, we're not paying you unless you play is totally reasonable. right yeah 100% okay we're paying you 36 million dollars already next year you just picked up that option if we're going to do an extension i mean which is just crazy do you think anybody else has this

discussion with their players all right hey understandably we will pay you what you want but we want on our side just some level of protection if you don't play because you just might not play for us. You could even carve out, I'd even carve out, like, injury. I'd even carve out injury. Just if you don't play, but if you just don't play because you leave or whatever,

then we don't have to pay you this contract, right? He's like, if you just decide, hey, I'll be back in a couple weeks, like we don't have to pay you for this. What a mess. But anyway. It really is a mess, man. It's too bad.

Well, what do you make of the whole DeAndre Aitin thing, though? So for those that don't know, yesterday, it sent shockwaves through NBA Twitter because it's reported that Draft Kings Nation had moved up odds. And all of a sudden, DeAndre Aiton, the second best odds to acquire DeAndre Aiton were the Brooklyn Net. And so, of course, we were on the text thread and we're talking like, oh, my God, is this the KD deal? What are they moving? Are they moving Aiton? Are they moving bridges?

Are they moving draft picks? Like, my God, is Kyrie not going to, is he really going to do that Laker crap? And now KD might be going to the Sons. And so you're figuring out, like, why? Why would Aiton's odds change so drastically to where it could be a net? and then we have all the Kyrene news come out and it's like, okay, they're running it back in Brooklyn and what do we make of the Aitin thing?

Like, what happened there? Do you think that that was something that was talked about in the case that the other stuff fell through or is that possibly still out there? That was strange. It might have just been a reaction. to rumblings around NBA circles about if Kyrie were to opt out or demand a trade. And if Kevin Durant were to demand a trade, there were some rumblings about who's at the top of

Kevin Durant's list. And that team that was often cited was the Phoenix Suns. And I don't think that necessarily means a whole lot because Kevin Durant's list wouldn't have mattered. It just doesn't. The Nets would take the best offer from the 28 teams that they would accept off. for Strzman. That includes everybody but the Knicks. So I don't think it really matters too much, but my guess would be that it was a reaction to some of those conversations happening around the

league. And maybe it's more than that. Maybe the, maybe the Nets are going for a rating and free agency in a sign and trade scenario where they send out Claxton in a double sign and trade or, or some type of salary and their future picks that they got in the Hardin deal. Maybe that's what it is. But I haven't heard anything at all about that. about them landing him in that form. I think the odds moving was merely a reaction to do some of the talk around the league, and that's it. Does anybody you talk to think Aiton's going to be a son?

There's still some people who think that's a possibility after Detroit got Duran in the draft and lost a little bit of cap space. So there's still some talk about that. However, definitely still a lot of speculation about that. And there's also the possibility of sign and trades. I mean, there's always sign and trade possibilities, which means you can't rule out anybody.

Yeah. I wonder if somebody's going to sign into an offer sheet, right? Yeah. I mean, that's happening. And then at that point, do you think there's any chance that the plan is somebody signs them to an offer sheet and then the suns just match that? And that way, they're not on the hook for what is the full amount. that he would want when they were trying to sign an extension with them.

Because we know the sons are capable of getting him on a longer contract than other teams are, but that doing it this way, this would make the employee very upset. But the idea is, okay, go sign the offer sheet. We're on the hook for less money doing it that way, which certainly would not be out of the realm of possibility when you're talking about a team that is owned by Robert. Sarver. For now. For now. Yeah, I mean, we'll see how that plays out.

Yeah. I mean, I think with Aiton, yeah, there's a chance he ends up staying in Phoenix. Yeah. There is. Definitely there is. But at the same time, for the Sons, I'm curious, Chris, do you think that they, should they be pursuing sign and trade scenarios with Aiton here? Is it advantageous for them to do that? Or is it as simple as bringing back Aiton, who's been such an important defensive

a stabilizer and screener and finish her at the rim for you the last two years. I mean, I think, yes, you pursue the sign of trades if you don't want them on your team anymore. So that way you don't lose them for nothing. On the other hand, if you don't have the good sign and trade scenarios, then you do just resign him. You can still trade him. You can't lose the asset for nothing. that's the one thing that cannot happen in the situation. So you, A, yes, pursue all sign and trades if you're willing to just part weight,

and you don't want to pay him what he wants. That being said, in the case that you can't find a good deal, you just resign it. And then you figure it out from there. But you cannot lose that asset for nothing. that would be insane. That's the one thing that would be insane in the situation. So yeah, to your question, yeah, pursue every sign and trade.

That way you get, you know, you might be able to get something really good back in a sign and trade deal. And if you can't and teams are not willing to do that, then you just, you just resign it. And in fact, I think you send that message out to everybody. Like, yo, you better pony up because if you don't, like, you're not, he's not going at He's not going anywhere, like, unless we trade him somewhere. End the story. And I do think that you would have big leverage then. And then you could get a real bidding war amongst teams.

Otherwise, yeah, you just sign him and you figure it out after that, but you can't, you can't lose it for nothing. why is there all this Dejante Murray smoke? You know, I listen to the Drapog as he did, and you were effusive in your praise and kind of like the young core that they got going in San Antonio, got some pieces you really like. And then this story has just been a constant

over the course of the past, you know, three, four days about DeJante Murray, the Hawks have been included as a possibility with that, like, DeJante Murray had a great season last season, for sure. What's the deal there? I mean, I'll be honest with you, Chris. I'm shocked that the reaction is as strong as it is.

Why would they not be pursuing DeJante Murray trades? It's my question. He has two years left on his contract. He's a clutch client. In 2024, a number of teams can end up pursuing him. So you're trying to gauge the market on a, player two years before he hits unrestricted free agency rather than one year ahead of his restricted free agency.

To me, it makes complete logical sense to be having those discussions, especially if the return, as has been reported by Jake Fisher, is indeed a Drew Holiday-like package, which means three plus first round draft pegs, possibly a player involved. I don't see why you wouldn't be entertaining deals like that. because he's really good. Yeah, but he only has two years left, and you talk about losing a guy for nothing. What threat,

what there's a major threat of, you're San Antonio. And this clutch client is going to have be recruited all around the entire NBA in 2024. Never mind teams that have cap space. There's sign and trade scenarios that could end up forcing him into different places

for that matter either. And also, I mean, I think for Murray here, great player, an all-star team, but if you're the Spurs, again, Chris, two years left. What's wrong with spinning it forward and getting a whole bunch of draft picks in return and possibly a young player in return, too? I just, I like the Jante Murray a lot.

He's not an untouchable. So you just think step backwards is fine. If you're the Spurs? Yeah. Sure. Some people thought that they could be a player, whether it's trade or free agency. They could be still.

To improve their team. They could be. that can be part of it. I mean, the way for them, if they want to open up $35 plus million in cap space, they can't. And they can get there a number of different ways. One of them would be, you know,

rescinding Lonnie Walker's free agent rights and they could do that easily. Another one would even open up more cap space would be saying goodbye to DeJante Murray and having a three-team trade with Atlanta, sends Murray to Atlanta, Gallinari's salary to a third team, or

John Collins to a third team. And then suddenly the spurs have $50 million in cap space and maybe they're sending offer sheets and making big signings and they have draft picks and a strong, you know, deep young roster. So I think for San Antonio, I hear that, you know, I haven't heard anything super concrete involving Murray, you know, trade talks, but the fact that they're at least having those discussions, to me, that makes me wonder, okay, if they're doing this, what do they want to do with their cap space? Or would they be absorbing even more money

in order to get even more draft picks? How much does that close the gap for teams with OKC in the world in terms of how much ammo they have for big trades? So I'm just intrigued. I like that they're having these discussions. So it's just a short-term rebuild.

Pop says to hell with it, and Quinn Snyder's the Spurs coach. I don't know. I don't know anything about that. I mean, you've got to imagine that. I don't even think it really matters. I don't even think it really matters. I'm not going to sit around to coach a cramp team again.

You know what I mean? At this point, I can't imagine. I can't imagine that he would want to be there for, you know, if you're going to do a reset, maybe they get her a good return. Do you think Murray is a good fit with Trey Young? Trey's pretty ball dominant. I don't know. How many times are after hammered the same point with Trey?

like he's got to play off ball. Simple as that. It's really as simple as that. He needs to be, he's such a good shooter. If he can lean into it off screens and handoffs, then yes, he can play with the Jante Barre. But that's Trey Young's decision. And, you know, the fact both of those guys are clutch clients,

their friends, you would think Trey would have a willingness to share the ball with a guy like the Jante Murray. But, you know, who knows? All right. John Wall gets a buyout with the Rock. It sacrifices a little money. I think it was $6 million I read in order to do it. Clippers.

Yeah, within two seconds it comes out with the clippers. I thought you weren't allowed to do this. I don't know. What are our rules, Chris? Well, might have cost the bucks Bogdanovich once upon a time. You know what I mean? I think, you know, I would have thought that teams were a little more frightened. about this, especially when, you know, there was all the

Hullabaloo about the Kyle Lowry and whatnot. Last year, Lonzo Ball, right? That one was out there as, you know, teams having problems with it. And so this is the kind of thing where it's like, well, hold on now. Like, yeah, he got bought up, but how was he already figured out where he's going? So if you're Adam Silver, not great, but it's either here or there. I don't think that there was going to be a monster, monster market for Mr. Wall. That being said, I'll tell you what, Kemp, there's a lot of injury, what could happen here, risk.

but you think about that Clippers team healthy. Even if Wall is not, you know, best version of John Wall, if he's just solid, you know, I've talked in the past about can he be the kind of guy that moves into the Derek Rose portion of career? In fact, I think that's a reasonable model is the Derek Rose model, who is still an incredibly effective winning player. right now. John Wall, Reggie Jackson, Norm Powell, Luke Conard, Paul George, Robert Covington, Kauai, the Morris twin, Zubotch, Batoon. I mean, God, that's a hell of a roster, man. That is a hell of a roster. I still believe in John Wall.

I kind of do too, and this, I think this is the perfect, absolutely perfect scenario. Yeah. And the reason why is because it's so much easier to envision him in that type of role than like Russ, the failure of Russ and with the Lakers. With John Wall, he has shot 38% on catch and shoot three's throughout his entire career, slightly above average, right? So you know he can play off with Kauai and Paul George successfully. He's been an attentive cutter. And, you know, in certain scenarios, sometimes he's hand on his knees and he's super lazy and he doesn't move. that was prime John Wall when he wasn't moving off ball, but I'd love to see him when he's actually, you know,

attentively focusing off ball. He's shown he can with Kauai and George. Maybe we'll see that more often. And then defensively, I mean, who knows what level he's going to be? It's like such a wild card. We don't know. But at least you know he can pass the ball. At least you know he can spot up and shoot.

And you hope he's going to be attentive off ball playing with those other guys as well, because they're going to have the ball on their hands a ton, obviously. Yeah. Like all the stuff he's not good at, he doesn't have to do it. Yeah, he doesn't need to carry the load anymore. Okay, you need to, there's just so little pressure on you when those are your two wings. Oh, there's a guard that's busting our ass.

Okay, now Kauai guards him. Oh, Paul George guards him. I'm hiding you over here, right? Like, all of the things like that. So that's on the defensive end, on the offensive end, the guy is a great passer. he don't have to score for that team right just keep the ball moving just set the table

run the high pick and rolls set the table for everybody every once a while attack the basket and he hadn't played it forever he should be healthier now maybe we'll get an Al Horford you know renaissance

it really is amazing how much we haven't seen John Wall since 2019 it's incredible or it really wasn't even 2018 when the injury happened No, I saw him in Houston a couple of times. Yeah, I know, but I'm saying we haven't really seen him since then. Yeah, it was December 26th, 2018 when he got hurt with the Wizards.

That was his last game. And then he played only 40 games with Houston. So we've only seen him play 40 games in 2019, 2020, 2020, 2021, and 22 so far. Only 40 games. Wow. Last time I saw him in person, he still had like real burst. But again, I haven't seen him forever. And I'm saying that's when he was playing with the rocket.

And I'm like, man, he looks good. Like he can really, he can still like blow past guys. I do feel a lot like the Rose scenario, which is can you be like Derek Rose is a totally reasonable guy to have in your guard rotation that could really be. helpful. And so kind of move into that savvy veteran stage of your career, the guy was immensely talented. And yeah, it's never going to be all NBA guy again, but you could be super solid and helpful guy again. I think it's a good get for the Clippers for sure. And I think it's a great situation for him. I am unsurprised that that would be the pairing. Because he still got Reggie.

Jackson, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how. And you mentioned Westbrook. It's reported this morning that he has opted in into his $47 million. Oh, what? Do you know how tough of a decision that must have been?

47 million dollars. That's wild. How much do you think they kept them up at night to decide to do that? How much are you agonized? Less than him beating Skip Bayliss's ass kept him up at night. He wants to beat up Skip Bayliss so bad. Yeah, I know. That was something else.

Yeah. He's mad at Skip Baylis. This is just me. There's the Westbrook stuff not that bad. It's a little overblum. They film out there? Is Bayless out there? I believe they do, yeah.

Westbrook feels like the kind of guy that would, like, be outside the studio. Call me Westbrook now, bitch. Is it really worth being outside the studio over that, though, I mean? You have to mention it. I mean, you're going to beat the... It's not that time. Skip Baylor's like 60-something years old, didn't it? 70. 70.

No! Yeah. No, he's not. Yes, he is. Skip Bayless is not 70. He's 70. He turns 71 later this year. December 4th, 1951, according to Wikipedia.

That's wild! I had no idea. And then you got Draymond Green ranting for 40 minutes on his podcasts about a guy ranting on TV and Skip Bayliss and all that. They're all mad at him.

That Jemond Paul was something. Did you watch that or listen to that? I listened to it. Yeah, he went off. That act's going to get old, like the just bitching about everybody. Yeah. I understand it, right?

But, I mean, it will get. At some point, that teeters out, right? I personally would rather hear about like the, just my opinion. I think what athletes can bring to the table is like, yes, the behind the scene stuff, locker room stuff, and also like, okay, here's how we flip the series.

I would have been much more interested in that than giving a shit what Skip Bayless said on TV. Yeah, I mean, I understand to an extent that you can't be talking about certain stuff like that, but at the same time, there's something Dremont said on that podcast. He said a bunch of talking heads and they just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. but what about actually getting back to actually analyzing the game? What about explaining the game of basketball?

What's going on and what that means? I'd love to hear that from Drayman. This is in the midst of a 45-minute podcast where he was talk, talk, talk, talk. Yeah, I mean, I feel like, like, we know how smart Draymond is as a player. He is a computer brain. He's one of the smartest defensive players in recent league history. He keeps that team connected. He energizes that team.

No question. I would love the title of that video was Dre Rants on Skip Bayliss, Kendrick Perkins, and media accountability. Well titled, you know, that's a perfect title. It is accurate. It makes waves for sure. I would love to see the volume and publish a video that says, Draymond explains the evolution of pick and roll defense,

Draymond on how Rust needs to adapt to thrive with the Lakers. Draymond Green and Steph Curry explained their top five plays together. I'd love to see some like Draymond style like Kobe with his, detail show, you know, voiceover, highlighting, you know, explaining in depth what's happening in plays, how the Warriors have changed their pick and roll defense over the years, like educating, analyzing the game, which is exactly what he asks for and is fully capable of. I think Draymond, well, with what we've seen so far, he's a hit, right? Draymond's a hit.

People really, people really love Draymond Green. But there's more to him that I think he can do on YouTube and, and, and, I'll his podcast and all that than he's done so far. He has such high upside. I can't believe. He's just going to lean into it. He can't, I think just the short term stuff,

like you said, Chris, this gets big numbers now, but people will grow tired of this type of stuff. Dremon has significant upside, though. He's just going to lean into it. Oh, he's a 100% sure thing. Would you watch that video, Chris?

Would you watch Dremon Green? Yes, I would. A six-minute video of Dremon explaining the mechanics of modern day pick and roll defense. Of course you would. I would watch that. I'd pay for that. Get a subscription on substack.

Well, and there's been a bunch of these guys that have been mega likable recently. Like, you know, obviously JJ's done great job, whatever. Yeah,

excellent. I'd tell you this. You know who's going to be at it for a long, long, long time? McCollum? I love McCallel. Oh,

that's what you were going to say? Oh, I love him. Isn't he good? He's sharp, right? He's great delivery. He's so intensely likeable. Yeah, he is.

He's really good. He really is. He's an intensely likable guy, C.J. McCallum. He really is. Back to the original point, which was Skip Bayless is frigging 70. I had no idea. That is the most shocked I've been about an age since. Maybe I can shock you with this.

You know who else? Somebody told me he was 70 like this past year, and I was like, full crap. Go look at it. Leonard. Hamilton at Florida State. Really? I thought Leonard Hamilton was like in his 50s. Leonard Hamilton looks unbelievable.

He's like the same age as like Coach K or something. I was like, what? No way. Coach K looks his age. I know. How old is Leonard Hamilton? Seriously. It was over 70.

He's 73 years old. Yeah, he got the way of 700. That's crazy thing I've ever heard. Leonard Hamilton being 73. the most shocking thing. I had no idea. But my dad is 75 and

let's just say he looks nothing like Leonard Hamilton. Leonard Hamilton looks like, I mean, it's unbelievable. Unbelievable. Anyway, maybe him and

Skip Baylors looks a lot more 70 than Leonard Hamilton does. I promise you that. Okay, a couple other things from our buddy Mark Stein that I found interest. thing about free agency coming up. One of the things he reported,

you know, just chatter that he had heard from people was, A, whenever there's chatter about these particular guys, the sentiment out there amongst people in the know is that they're not going anywhere, they're going to

return to their teams. And he mentioned the Portland guy, Nirkich and Simons, totally unsurprising, considering Damien Leller. still there, right? So they're trying to have a team. Those guys both extremely valuable pieces to them. Them going back there would be unsurprising. The other one was that I did find a little interesting was Looney. He mentioned that, you know, word on the street is that Looney was a real

part of them winning another title, their fourth championship, and that the expectation that Kevon Looney is going to be back in Golden State. Yeah, I've heard the same there. Yeah, that he'll be back. Wow. Sounds like 3.30, 440, something like that for Looney. We'll see. Really?

Yeah. I wondered if he was going to be one of those guys where the market just gets really big for him, right? That somebody out there is like, you know what? He's still young. We'll pay Kevin, we'll pay Kevin Looney to come be our center. And that that would be like a sacrifice that just has to be made once you're, once you're paying that, you know, tax on tax on tax, on tax, right? That the price of those guys, even if you are spending a bunch of money, you're not paying them whatever contract gets reported. The cost that you have is much greater than whatever contract you agree to simply because of repeater taxes, et cetera, et cetera.

They're going to be a pricey roster. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be fascinating to see what happens, what the looney number actually is once it's determined. If Gary Payton comes back, among others on that team, too. It could get a bit crazy for Joe Lake up's pockets. All right. So we're going to be on Friday, and we'll be talking about all of these things that happen in free agency. Give me just a couple of free agents that you're most.

interested in what happens with them. Because Kevin, it seems like a lot of the big ones, most people think they're just going to sign with their teams. Maybe we'll get a surprise, but like Levine going back to the Bulls and Beals signing with the Wizards on and on and on. But who really intrigues you leading up to the end of this week? We haven't talked about Jalen Brunson today.

With Brunson, there's still a lot of stuff out there about the Knicks making an offer over $100 million for four years, which we'll see if that price is out Dallas or whether they end up wanting to match that at the final minute to bring him back. So he's very interesting to me. If the Knicks don't get Brunson, who would they instead try to sign? Is it a Colin Sexton? Is it a Miles Bridges? I mean, who would it be? I don't know. This isn't an amazing class. You know, but I'm curious to see where a guy like Colin Sexton goes if he has to sign an offer sheet somewhere, you know, even a Mo Bamba, right?

A guy like that, some of the bleak monks of the world, like some of these kind of middle tier free agents, where are they going to go? Are they going to stay with their teams? A Tyos Jones type, obviously even with Memphis, which team is going to be targeting a really, really good backup point guard? Nick Claxton mentioned him in passing earlier, who I think is really good.

So some of these guys around the edges that can make a difference on a roster, where are they going to go? Who's going to pick them up? but the main guys, Bridges, Brunson, I'm thinking about them a lot right now. I've still got every bit of my Colin Sexton stock. I think he's going to be one that people can get on a hell of a contract. And maybe he just does the short-term, you know,

I go play it out somewhere rather than lock in for a long amount of time. and I reclaim, you know, my place in the league, and then we'll go back into free agency a year from now because nobody's seen me play in a year. I would absolutely take a flyer on him for sure on Sexton. And if I could get it, I'd even sign him up long term, if I could get him on a really reasonable deal. He just feels like one of those because he's coming off the injury

that could end up being. one of those great, great contracts in the lead. And then I've got to tell you, Kevin, my producer in Memphis, who you know, John Rosa, I said, we're going through a free agency. I said, Memphis, you know, they need another guy. They need another big that can space the floor and can knock down some shots. Man, I'm telling you, he taught me into Moamba yesterday. Oh, baby.

And I thought, oh, my God, Kevin would move here full time. I could get O'Connor to, I could get the president of the president of the Bomba levers, I could get it full time if I could get Mo Bamba. I'll take a job with the Grizzlies. I know. Assistant to the assistant general manager or something like that. There you go. Could you imagine Mo Bamba?

I mean, there's not a lot of bigs that can shoot, by the way, that are out there. No, there's not. There's not. Pretty valuable player, huh? Well, yeah, look, if you've got a Moran, if you've got a Luca, if you've got a tray if you got to you know what I mean like the the spacing all the way down to the to the center can be very very very helpful very helpful right anybody they can play that position and stretch the floor you got the vision you see it oh I just say anybody that can anybody

that can space the floor from that position he shot pretty well from three yeah let's go Let's go. The Bombolievers, unite. They're not paying him in Orlando, are they? This makes my morning. Oh, I'd have a Bomba jersey in two seconds. This makes my morning, Chris. I'm so happy right now.

You're a Bomboliva with me. I love it. Last thing. How excited were you? Because now you get to use your phrase again. who's going into Clifford's big red doghouse. Oh,

speaking of MoMA. I can't believe it. I couldn't believe it. I feel so bad for Mark Williams, Chris. He's not going to play. They're going to bring back Jason Plumley. Plumbley's going to play ahead of Mark Williams.

No chance. It's over for, I'm selling all my Mark Williams stock that I had. Who else is going into the big, the Clifford's big red doghouse? Isn't it? Isn't it funny they brought him back? Oh, my goodness.

What a weird, you know, set of events that happened. You bring in Kenny Atkinson, you're interviewing Mike Dan Tony, and then nobody wants to be second choice. Steve Clifford is like, I'm the ex. Take me back. Well, like, look, we're comfortable with him. He's comfortable with us. Let's run it back.

Had some success here. It's some fun themes. Yeah. Kempa teams. It's fun teams. Right? Yeah. For Mark Williams.

that's tough it's tough do you now feel differently about his projections in the NBA I mean I never know it Clifford man you know this

he's gonna run them bastards into the ground that's what you do know whoever he plays he's playing him a lot and they're gonna get yelled at that's what we do know he's good basketball coach

I know I know he just hates to young people that's all he's a good basketball coach when he's at good rosters. The guy is a good basketball coach for sure. He just hates young, young players, that's all. Better name Mo, that's all. I'll say this. It's going to be fascinating to see if there's a love fest with him and Lamello or if that goes sideways. Oh, yeah. That's going to be fascinating. Yeah. Not exactly the two I would put as these guys are

going to get along famously. Yeah, I agree there. Right? If that's your franchise guy. Yeah. I'm not so sure that I would go with one of the old heads, but maybe I'm those. I'd have just paid Dan Tony and let the Lamello go average 30, 15 and 15 for the season. It's a strange hire and sell a bunch of tickets. It's a strange hire to bring them back. Yes. We agree on that.

But at least we get to bring back your phrase. So I like that. Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah. We'll see if we can use it, though. oh maybe mark williams goes out there has a big year make no mistake we will get to use it one way or another i think we will yes james booknight yeah welcome you're done you're done you are done you're over yeah we're going to see you in the end of your rookie deal brother

so man to trade now james book's night uh by friday the league will be shaking up And we will be back for our Friday episode. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always, Kevin. I'll talk to you on Friday. I'm really looking forward to this Friday's episode, Chris, it'll be good.