The Mismatch - Reading Between the Lines of the Pat Bev Trade and the Real Impact of Chet’s Injury

Episode Date: August 25, 2022

Verno and KOC discuss the latest trade in the NBA as Patrick Beverly makes his way back to Los Angeles, but this time he’ll join LeBron James and the Lakers (01:05). Could this be the first step in the Lakers' attempt to move Russell Westbrook? The Thunder’s Chet Holmgren injured his foot in a pro-am game and will now miss the entire 2022-23 season, and the guys discuss how players with bodies like Chet’s are getting more frequently injured (17:43). Could the Thunder potentially make Shai Gilgeous-Alexander available? While discussing the young stars in the NBA, KOC brings up the idea of a Rising Stars Week, where young stars get a chance to shine on national TV (33:10). Got a question for the guys? Send it to us for our next episode at [e-mail]. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Mac Jones is ripped. Matt Patricia's calling plays. The Celtics are title favorites. And The Ringer has a new Boston show. I'm Brian Barrett, host of Off the Pike, the show covering all things Boston sports. I'll have shows multiple times a week covering your favorite teams and with your favorite ringer and local guests.

Plus, maybe Bill will stop by to rant about the socks. Follow off the pike with me, Brian Barrett, now on Spotify. Welcome to The Misfatch. I'm Chris Barton and join me this Thursday. From The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, Kevin Obama, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Colmour, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Brien. Kevin! We actually got NBA news.

We didn't think we would. We asked for all mailbag. Do we ever have NBA news? So, last evening, we'll start with the trade news. Last evening, it was announced that Patrick Beverly is going to be headed to play for the Los Angeles Lakers. and that Talen Horton Tucker is going to be headed to the Utah Jazz. Don't forget Stanley Johnson, Chris. Don't forget Stanley Johnson.

And Stanley Johnson. Danny Hage liked him in the draft. Not as much as Justice Winslow, though. So this trade goes down last night. And I thought it was fascinating to see some people pulled up like an old tweet that Patrick Beverly had put out. when the schedule was announced, and it was like Lakers versus Clippers and some kind of game. And he like did the prayer hands emoji.

And so people were saying like, did Patrick Beverly know? And you'd stand to reason. He probably did know. So just for quick explanation, once you make a trade, I think it's 90 days from that time before you can trade a player as a one-off. It's still even, I think it would go to like September 6th or something. like if they packaged guys. So they made that deal with Minnesota.

August 30th was the date. We talked about earlier in the week for like consolidation with multiple other pieces. Yeah, right. So then you can trade a guy singularly, but if they're going to put his contract with, so if they put together him in Vanderbilt or him and somebody else, that can't be done for even a longer amount of time. But it says to reason Patrick Beverly probably did know

when he tweeted that, that he was going to be a Laker. Yeah, there were rumblings about, you know, potential moves. I think, I mean, one of the reasons why, like, I kind of plugged it into the article earlier in the week about, like, maybe a Lakers, you know, Pacers thing could integrate into jazz and Knicks now is because with Beverly, remember? I think it's Mark Stein maybe, forgive me if I'm wrong, he said the jazz could be a destination for Russ.

And, like, Beverly, Clarkson, Bogdanovich, like something like that would have made sense in that situation. but instead we get this, you know, simple, this is an easy trade to make for both teams, isn't it? It is an easy trade. They would have a better gauge on what Taylor and Horton Tucker is than I would. I know Laker fans were disappointed in what they got out of Horton Tucker last year. Still very young player.

And so, as I've said, a hundred times about a lot of guys, you know, the book's not written. We've seen a lot of guys that it just takes them a little while longer than some others. and he probably wasn't in the absolute best position for his skill set. I know that at one point, when I talked to some people connected to Horton Tucker, he was kind of on an island in the sense of he's like the only like young guy. Like he didn't have buddies to go run around with and whatever. Like these guys, these are old, this is an old team with a bunch of veteran guys.

And like he didn't have a bunch of friends, you know, on that team. beyond the, you know, playing time and trying to fit into a system with LeBron. Like, it probably was not best equipped for his development. Now, he is responsible for his own lack of progression. There's no question. But I could see how that might have not been the best opportunity for Kim to grow as a player. And so I don't want to say the book's written on him. I don't know yet, right?

I do know what Patrick Beverly is. And I do think Patrick Beverly is very valuable to winning. I do. I think he is, look, you don't have to take my word for it. Go read any of the articles that came out of Minnesota last year. I talked to a lot of the Minnesota media last year because the Chrysley's played Minnesota in that playoff series. And they were effusive in the praise.

They're like, you don't get it. You know, or not me, but people don't get it. What he brings to the table. He's texting these guys. He's sending them defensive clips. You know, when guys get down, it doesn't happen anymore. When guys have low energy, it doesn't happen anymore. Like, he really is a culture guy.

And so it is bigger than what he just brings on the court. Points per game is never going to tell the story. he's an elite level defender he plays hard all the time which raises the collective energy of a team and then stuff behind the scenes in the locker room he is like a heart and soul type guy

and I do think that that is very important for the Lakers to get he even said when he was on ESPN I think a month ago I think when he was on first take with Stephen H. Smith yeah if I were on the Lakers

I'll call out the defensive assignments I'll tell LeBron James, he needs to be the low man in this rotation. Yeah. And it's like, yeah, he will do that. He will. He will. I thought he was valuable to the Clippers. I thought he's valuable to the, you know, he wins, man.

He is a winning player. Yep. And I don't think it is some kind of coincidence that he's on these winning teams. I just don't. I think he's a winning player. And I think that those kind of guys can have a, there's a limit. to it for sure, but they can't have a profound impact and sometimes their value off the court exceeds greatly their value on the court. But I think it's a really, really good move for the Lakers.

I cannot help but wonder if it was the most intentional thing ever. I'm sorry. They need him. I think it's a great move. I also think to myself, bro, if you ever want to be, you ever, wanted Russell Westbrook to really want out. I really think he hates the guy. Did you see the LeBron tweet this morning? Ridiculous. I think they're trying to bolster up Westbrook's trade value. I think that's exactly what it is.

So that LeBron tweet, he responded to at Cuffs the Legend, who is a podcaster and a commentator of the Some Dude Show. But he's also been friends with LeBron He's LeBron's friend of many, many years And he's like he's a good NBA Twitter follow He's funny like he says what's on his mind He doesn't care about what people think He tweeted out

The Westbrook disrespect and vitriol is still corny Regardless of how you feel about last season Some people got to get a life man And then LeBron James responded And he said Can't wait for him to go off this season With like a hush emoji At the end of it

And Lakers fans might take that as, oh, we're keeping Ross. And Russ is going to change and play the role that Darwin Ham has outlined for him. Or LeBron might be hinting at the potential for a trade with Russ having like a Chris Paul-esque season where he's getting the ball on his hands and he's restoring his value and putting up numbers. And he's going out there and he goes off just not for the Lakers. That's always possible too. LeBron might know what's coming. It's just odd.

That summer league thing was not blown up for no reason. For anybody that was in the arena, it was frigging weird. How do you not even just say a little hello? They didn't even speak. And Rob Polick is there. Everybody's there. And everybody's talking to everybody. Everybody's doing the walkover to the other guy to greet him.

It was weird to have Russell Westbrook. and LeBron James at the same place, those are all close quarters when you're at Summerlee and did not be talking, like did not even, not even fake it, you know? One thing I'll say about backers, let's just say,

let's just say you're seeing a friend that you see all the time at work, right? And you had a big hello with them behind the scenes. Would you then say hello on the court if that conversation happened 10 minutes prior. You don't buy that for a second. I don't either. I don't either.

I'm just throwing that out there. Is that possible if that's what happened? I don't think so. I think they arrived at different times at the arena, and they just never sent a word to each other. That's what I think happens. Yeah. But maybe you would just for the theater of it all.

You don't think that these guys... I mean, how many times do you see guys court side like fake laughing about stuff? Oh, yeah. Like, oh, oh, we're at, look how good our friends we are. A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, and that didn't happen.

I think they don't like each other and that LeBron James wants for us gone, period. End the story. We already know he wants them gone. He wanted Carrie Irving for him. In fact, it feels like there was a meeting and they say, okay, it hasn't worked like we wanted it to work. What could we do that would, if we're trying to come over the list of things that we could do, to ensure Russell Westbrook wants out of here

what would they be? Good Patrick Beverly is number one list. It's literally the number one thing I would just if you asked me. It would be the number one thing. Or hire Skip Bayless as like some team consultant, something like that maybe.

That would be like top five, top ten. Durant's in there somewhere. Yeah. You know what I mean? But yeah. those are at the very top of the list. And so, come on. Like, it feels a little bit too coincidental.

Now, it feels inevitable that a trade's going to happen. It's just a matter of who and for what. I think I've come from a weird standpoint on this because, yes, Taylon Horton Tucker may turn out to be, it could backfire. Maybe he turns out to be an outstanding player in the league. This is looked at as laughable. It is a win now move. There's no question about that.

But I would endorse a win now move on that front. And the other thing is, I know they've gotten some criticism, rightfully so, about committing to hate Taylin Horton Tucker and then foregoing other moves. You know, they were going to hang on to Taylor Horton Tucker and they didn't get this guy because of that.

They didn't get this guy. Kyle Lowry. Those are all things that are now in the past that you can't do anything about. And so, yeah, of course, it shows a level of mismanagement and reason that you wouldn't be so confident in how it's going. But just this on the surface, I think, if I'm trying to win a title, if I'm trying to maximize my last few years of great LeBron, I think the Patrick Beverly types are even more valuable.

Real role players that understand roles and also get other guys that don't understand roles to understand roles are, sometimes that could be more valuable than the more talented player. Like we, you probably saw that Dremont thing that's been going around, where he's yelling at everybody at the open run. Beverly had one too,

where he said like, you know, you're not all, you know, going to be Paul George or Pascal Seaccom. There's two guys. Yeah. Right.

There's two guys that can do whatever they want. The other 13 better find a role. They're going to find their way out. Yep. 100%. And he's right. And he's right. I mean, Beverly,

that's who he's always been. He's always been that guy on defense. On offense, he's not somebody who tries to go out and score, you know, 25 points. He shoots spot up threes and he cuts to the basket. Even last year, the wolves had him screening for Anthony Edwards, sometimes for Carl Anthony Towns. Now that's going to be LeBron James and it's going to be Anthony Davis here and there. You're going to see Beverly doing some of the stuff that Alex Caruso had done for the Lakers before he was traded. So Beverly does everything that Russ doesn't want to do, but he also can do some of the stuff

that's missing after they lost Caruso. And that was, that was finally important for those Lakers teams, a dirty work guy who does all the little things for those, you know, guard, forward screening matchups to create mismatches for LeBron. The Lakers add a lot with Beverly, and we saw little glimmers of it with Minnesota.

That's going to work out a lot for L.A. You're not accomplishing what you want to accomplish any way unless LeBron and AD are healthy. Yeah. And so, okay, and we talked about this, how do you build around them? it's role players.

That's it. All you have to have is role players. You've got the two stars. Get the role players to surround them. That's why the Rust thing was stupid on its face. You know, that's not what you need. You just won a title with a bunch of role guys. You got Rondo and Caruso and Ksma and KCP and this and that.

And it's like you don't need other guys that need the ball. Because the ball is going to be in those two guys. Those two guys are going to decide everything the last five. minutes of the gang. You got those. There's a pecking order here. And so now, I do think that this, you know, I do think it's a good move. And I do think that

sometimes just having somebody that really cares. That Laker team had a problem with caring last year. Mm-hmm. Didn't care. Didn't care. What if there's a guy that every night he freaking cares that he lost? They did not care that they lost.

I saw him. walk out of arenas and just like, yeah, whatever. Like, wait us up when the playoffs get here. And then the playoffs did get there and they weren't involved in them. So now they have Beverly. He cares. LeBron cares. A.D., you hope he's in the best shape that he can possibly be in.

You know, they add Lonnie Walker, Troy Brown, Juan Tuscano-Anderson. Those two of those moves were, I mean, I don't get those. Kendrick Dunn might come back, you know. Just find guys that can shoot. I don't know what the hell their problem is, though. do you think the Lakers their next move is to trade Russell Westbrook with unprotected and 27 and 29

to the Pacers to get Miles Turner and Buddy Hill? Is that the next move? Oh, I'd do that. Okay, so here's the one thing. I've heard the Pacers they want to win, like they want to compete. Wouldn't it make sense that Indiana is not the team that receives

Russell Westbrook? Wouldn't it make more sense if, let's say, you know, Utah or Charlotte, a team like that were receiving Russell Westbrook? Could the Lakers and Pacers insert themselves into a jazz mix thing where the Knicks get Mitchell, the Jazz

get Russell Westbrook, the Pacers get some quality parts from the Knicks like a Julius Randall, Evan Fornier, in addition to other draft picks, Lakers get something like, because if they give up Ross, they could take on enough salary to get not only Miles Turner and Buddy Heal, but also

Boyon Bogdanovich. Or they could get Evan Forniere, or if they were to give up none, they could also get Julius Randall. So they could get a third piece in a deal by giving up Russ in the two first round draft picks if they're inserted into a three-way deal or a four-way deal. You know, you can mix and match those teams. But does that make more sense to you?

Maybe Boyon Bogdanovich with Turner and Heald? I just don't think they're going to get that much for a Rush deal. Well, if you're giving up two unprotected firsts, like Turner only has the one year left on his contract. Heald has two years left, and he's good, but he's not great. So I think those are high value picks, man. Like 27 and 29, that's a long way away. Those are good picks to get in a deal that could be valuable for those teams.

They do need more shooting. I just think three is more fair than two. I think if they were to get Bogdanovich in that, like that, I don't know, I think that makes a lot more sense in terms of trade value fairness. The other huge story that is broken over the course of the last 24 hours is unfortunately the Chet Holmgren story. Which is, I mean, literally the worst. I was so excited to watch Chet Holmgren this year.

We were over the moon about the Summer League stuff. And just how fun it was. It's just so unique, so different, not what we're used to. Kind of a polarizing guy, you know, where there's people that think he's going to be a bum. There's people that think he's going to be, you know, something that the NBA has never seen before. People who think he's going to get hurt all the time? Yeah. And so now he plays in this pro-am thing in Seattle.

He's got a Liz Frank sprain, and he's going to be out for an entire season. And so we are robbed of his rookie season. They're for certain going to be a league pass favorite. and now without the services of shed homegring. And I know there's going to be some I told you so, this guy who wasn't going to be able to hold up. Everybody knew with that kind of frame and whatever else. And so I think that's unfair because it's kind of a freaky thing.

But I got to be honest, Tev. You and I talked about this leading into the draft. We even talked about it last year's draft. and I have expressed over and over again my level of concern of what is going on with these seven footers and that yeah sometimes you could just say oh well that was a freak thing but the freak thing seems to happen to these guys a lot

because I don't know that their frames are meant for the current NBA the millions of AAU games they play before they even get to the NBA and then the wear and tear and everything else that, like, that frame is built for it. So, and it's not because of this one with Chet. You just go through and Chet and then let's pray on Javari. And that Javari, you know,

because he's kind of another one of these. And I'm talking about these like unicorn types, but even like the non-unicorns. You go through these like seven-foot guys that have been drafted in the top 10, okay? You tell me where's the beacon of health? James Wiseman. Four in one draft.

Marvin Bagley, Jaron Jackson, Mo Bamba, Wendell Carter, Jr. Which of those four you think's played the most games? Carter? It's Bomba. Bomba? Can you believe that? Wow. Now, he's played less minutes and his other ones.

But more total games. Yeah, it would go Bomba. Jackson. I think Jackson's played one more than Wendell Carter, but it's like 204. It's like 50 a year. And then he's going to miss the first couple months of this season. And then Bagley is obviously last.

Okay. So there's four more guys that would fit that, all in the top eight of a draft. Jonathan Isaac the year before. Zach Collins, the year before. Porzengis. And then you can even just go to these other guys that are like 6-11,

seven foot. Rob Williams, Jared Allen, Mitchell Robinson, even Ben Simmons for that matter. He's big, he's tall. He is. Jaliel Loak before Willie Colley Stein. Like you go back through these drafts and look at these guys that are 6-11, you know, and now with the way the NBA's played now and run up and down the court, oh, by the way, the god of all of those, like the godfather of the crazy unicorn

is Anthony Davis you know what I mean of this new kind of guy and his whole career's been marred and by the way never mind like historically you think about you know Chris Staps Porzingus

Yao Ming Ilgousis Ralph Samson I mean there's so many Sam Bui no kidding so many tall players right tall players in NBA history history that have suffered injuries

and never been able to stay durable. It's a long, endless list of players. But I think now it's, I think now because of the way the games play, because you guard somebody all the way out to the three point line, I think it's even hard.

More demands, right? More space to cover, right? You sprint. Yeah. These seven footers sprint all the time. Yeah, the seven footers used to be plotters. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Play half, court basketball, just kind of get down, you know. And like the ones that are plotters, like Powell Gassal, a very long, generally healthy career. You think about right now, Carl Towns, you know, kind of just makes his way up and down the court. He's not, you know, he's been very durable, generally. But, I mean, we've just had so many of these.

And Chet's now just, to me, just kind of falls in line with this, my God, man, I'm scared as hell of a draft in the seven-footer. Yeah, they are awesome in many cases when they play. And you might get a full season. Like, take for instance, as I just said, look, I cover one all the time. I love the kid. I love Jared Jackson, Jr.

Played 78 games in the playoffs last year. And then he got hurt in the off-season. He's out at the beginning of the years next year. You know what I mean? That'll be four out of five years of his career. Where he's either been shut down or, you know, going to play, what I say? He played, he's played like 200 games in four seasons. And he's not, and he's one of the more durable of the ones I listed.

Jonathan Isaac hasn't played basketball in two years. I don't even, I hope he comes back with like 300 pounds of the huge beard. He's got a book. No beard. What? What book? Jonathan Isaac? He's a book?

He came out with a book. I think it's called Why I Stand. If I remember correctly. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I haven't heard anything about it.

I'd imagine it's not a New York Times bestseller. No, it wasn't it? They're not making a movie out of it. Well, they probably are. Is Ben Shapiro making a movie out of it? Yeah, the Breitber bestseller list. The Daily Wire. Yeah.

It's a Daily Wire movie. Yeah, it made their bestseller. Not New York Times, not MSNBC, nothing like that. But, you know, would you? Chet Holmgren. This sucks, dude. It just sucks. I was just so excited to watch this team this year.

Like the Josh Giddy, Chad Holmgren chemistry. Then you insert SGA into that. Now we're not going to see that. Here's my thought. I had this last night. I'm laying in bed thinking about the thunder. Part of me is like, obviously, this sucks for them. Part of me is like, now they're going to suck even more.

I got so much of this, Kev As soon as I put up the tweet this morning About how awful I thought this was So much of it And it just goes to show you what people think of them now People are like, they don't care about sucking anyway They're gonna tank for one by Amma They wanted to compete

I legitimately think the Thunder wanted to go into this season And try to fight for a playing spot Doesn't mean they would make it I wouldn't pick them to make it But they wanted to compete with this team And they have so many draft picks, you know, they can move wherever they want in the draft class. But now in this year's draft class, there's obviously Victor Wenbenyama, the headliner of it. He could have his own injury concerns of his own.

He's mega tall. He's had injury concerns. He ended his year with a muscular injury. He's had lower body injuries in the past already. For the thunder, though, whenbenyama is like truly, like he, like on paper, this dude could be a megastar, an MVP, a hundred, Hall of Famer. That's his upside. So for the Thunder, Chet's going to miss the whole year. Maybe it's for the best long term. I mean,

it's not like other guys haven't missed time early in their careers. There could be a silver lining here for the Thunder if they do end up getting higher draft odds on top of all the other draft capital that they have. This could be a timeline that leads to a Wenban Yamah result for them. Or a trade that lands them when Banjama if the top team doesn't believe in him as somebody long term, which is the other question here.

And this is why I don't say, this is why I'm not totally 100% certain he's locked in as number one. I think he's going to be number one. But there's going to be a team out there that's going to say, yeah, I don't know. I don't trust him long term with his injury history, his body type. These guys don't last a long time. We're seeing that would hit. There's other good prospects this year.

The Thompson Twins. The Thompson Twins. There's some good college prospects that are in Arkansas. There's some good players in the class. So it's just something on my mind about, you know, the crown jewel of the 2023 class in Webben Yama too. One of the other things that was brought up to me a lot as soon as this news came out was who gets SGF.

Oh, like if they were to trade them. If they are going your route and they're masters of being terrible, so they can do that again. trade SGA to suck, though. Yeah, but they usually just shut him down. They just shut people down. Yeah. They didn't shut down Poku when he was going off for it.

They were like, all right, you're scoring too much. Go to the pitch. Oh, Poku must be really excited right now. Oh, yeah. No tall, lanky, white guy to compete for attention with it. Poku was probably poking a Chetonger voodoo doll at home. During that pro am, you're going to find the video of Poku like, stabbing a boodoo doll in there.

ankle. Take my job, you son of a bitch. People call me fake shit no more. We shouldn't joke about it. It's a terrible thing to tap.

We can joke about it. It's funny. But, I mean, focus is going to be like 48 minutes a game. The SGA thing is real. Yeah, it is.

If you are, if you're going to say, you know what, we're not going to compete. We're not going to compete. year. But it seems like they did invest in some guys. You know, they paid Lou Dorte that contract.

They got some guys. They got some guys. He got some talent. But, yeah, and they were going to be fun to watch. And, like, I thought competitive. Jalen Williams, he was really good in Summer League. He seems like he'll be a good rookie. Oh, really good.

Well, the one, Jalen Williams, not the other one. Yeah, yeah. The Arkansas one was, man. But the Santa Clara one was awesome. The first round pick, Jaylon Williams. Oh, my God. that guy, I was in love. I love his hair, too.

He just looks cool. He plays cool. I'm a Jaylon Williams fan. He too, big time. Yeah, big time. I like him. Trey, man, you know, had some great games last year, too. A lot of young talent.

Jeremiah Robinson, Earl, Kenrich Williams. Like, they get so much talent. I might have told you this, but there was more than, more than one player that mentioned Jalen Williams to me. But then specifically, as I think I told you, to before. David Roddy, who was the first ride draft pick for Memphis, when I asked him who the best player he played against the college. That's who he said. Jaylon Williams at Santa Clara.

They got, like, they got some fun young players, for sure. But Chet was the centerpiece. Yep, Chet was the Chet Giddy thing. And now it's going to be the Giddy Pocu thing. Nah, I mean, it's still SGA. SGA is still in there. No, it's Poku's team now. Come on. You're right, Chris. This actually is Alexei Pocuchesk's team.

The way he commands the ball and can run an offense and make behind the back passes and occasional highlight real. To anywhere? No. Just behind the back pass and passes to literally anything. To just be air. It might be chet on the sidebines. It's going, yeah.

But it's going to be behind the back. Yeah. I need to set up some alerts on my phone to tell. me when Poku's in the game, just so I can open up league pass. And I, you know, look, I like Paulo. You know, I think that somebody asked us a couple weeks ago about watching guys on TV. I had, I had, I had that OKC team, like, I said, out of my way, beyond our beloved Detroit Pistons, you know, I mean, Oklahoma City was right there at the top. Oh, yeah.

Just because he's so intriguing, I loved Jabari. And obviously you got the Jabari and Jalen thing going in Houston. But when we were going through like, all right, the teams that were not good last year. But now virtually all of them have given us a reason to tune them in. They were like at the top of my list of the tune-ins. Like, I got to see this. I just wanted to watch Chad Holmgren play in the NBA. because I really did not have any idea what was going to happen with it.

I didn't have a great feel as to what his rookie season is going to look like. And I could see it go. I think as we talked about, even in the draft, I thought his extremes were greater. You know, but I think on the good and the bad, I think he's extreme. Like, there was no chance when I was talking about the guys that won't suck. Polo is Paulo.

He's, barring injury, the guys, he's a decade-plus career no matter. He is what he is, you know. And do I think he could turn out to be one of the best players in the league? For sure. But I also know he's never going to be bad. No. You know? And I don't think Chet's going to be bad, but again, I don't know.

you know or I don't know if he could just be an entry issue because he's got the weird ass frame but just sucks I really want to watch it blows it really blows and I mean I think I think with Chad and O KC like they're still going to have some fun town to watch but like that giddy chat pairing was just so much more fun than just giddy playmaking

yeah it sucks hopefully hopefully Pala Benkerro and Jabari Smith and Ivy and all of these guys. Hopefully they say healthy as rookies. Do you think the NBA should have more young teams on national

TV to make like an early investment in developing hardcore fans? Like for Houston, Jalen Green Jalen Green's a fun player to watch. The Rockets have one national TV game. I just feel like Jalen Green, you know, with the

hair, the style, the explosive the shot making ability to me, why not put the rockets and pistons on national TV more than once each? You know, Kate Cunningham, like, there's going to be fun. I think you make your way, though. You got to win.

You think so? But, like, I'm talking from like the NBA standpoint, the long-term investment. Like, do people really want to watch, I don't know, like, the teams that they know already, like the Hawks or, you know, the heats or you know, Memphis for that matter.

Like, if Memphis has what, 18, 19, national TV games. But they haven't. But they haven't until this year. I know, I know. I know. But like, should it have been higher in past years and should it be like 15 instead of 18 this year is what I'm saying?

I have a tough time with this just because I understand it's a business. It's a business. And it's about getting people to tune in it. And you're trying to get people. Yeah. Like, I don't think that you're using TV to say, hey, now, be interested in this. I think you get on TV. as merit.

Like, so you have proven to be interesting. And so, look, it's a business. They got to sell ads. They got people got to tune in. And I don't think nearly is even, you know, you've either got to have a big market

or you've got to have a reason, like interesting players, right, that people want to tune in for. Isn't all contents being presented to you of like, hey, this is what's interesting? Like every TV show that's released. everything they talk about on the news. It's feeding the consumer to say,

hey, this is what we think you'll find interesting. Like, why wouldn't the NBA think people would find Janeland Green catching lobs and, you know, but that's not true. I think you have to, no, I don't think that's true. I don't think all content is like that. I think that you can get that opportunity, but then you have to prove to be interesting to people,

meaning people tune into you or people watch you or whatever it may be. You know, there's been a lot of, I suppose that, you know, once upon a time, ESPN through an unknown Colin Cowherd on the radio. Well, they can say, hey, this guy is interesting to you. But truth be told, if he's not interesting to people, then people are just going to tune out, right? Now, he became one of the most successful radio people ever. but he so they put him on but he has to be like good he has to you know be entertaining or else they so he wasn't interesting just because they told you he was interesting right and so i think that

these i think that you can become virally interesting i think that you know a lot of times it's power to the people on this you know if jalen green becomes the most viral athlete and everybody talk about Jalen Green and Jalen Green's hot in the streets and the kids are loving Jalen Green. Guess what? They're going to put them on TV just like they did John Moran. So you're right.

The NBA this year they're having their NBA Rivals Week where it's like five, six days in January where they have a bunch of nationally games, I mean TNT, ESPN, ABC, all that, right? And it's like Celtics Heat, you know, gris wolves

Embeded versus Yokic Nets Knicks the weekends with Lakers Celtics Grizzlies Warriors play Suns Mavs rematch It's a lot of great matchups and it's packaged together as NBA rivals week I like the idea

I think it's cool how they're doing that but couldn't you also do that for like Rising Stars Week and have some of those games be aired nationally of like hey here then here's who's next this is the week where we feature you know the Jalen Green of the world or even like, you know,

the Josh Giddies of the world. Like to me, like if you're going to do Rivals Week, why not have Rising Stars Week? And they do it at the All-Star Games. Yeah, I mean, the All-Star game is the All-Star game, though. That's not, the All-Star game is a joke. It's an exhibition. Like, people like competition and watching players

actually compete for victory. I don't know. If people found it interesting, they would put it on TV. Yeah. Maybe. They put Zion's ass on TV, didn't they? Oh, yeah, and then he was hurt all the time, though, unfortunately, yeah. But they did it.

And you're right. They did it. And they tried it. But they knew people would tune in. And they got screwed because he missed all those games. That's right. But had he played, I don't think any of these guys are big enough, the young guys right now. You might be right.

I don't think any of them are big enough to, they don't like. But are they not big enough because they're not featuring them? or is it because those teams just aren't good yet and people don't care about the teams that aren't good but why not have Rising Stars Week like in the middle of November early in the year who cares about record it's about featuring some of these guys

for the fans that are actually going to tune in like hey you're on ESPN tonight right like Monday night football just got over here's the late night West Coast game 1030 p.m. after Monday night football it's Rockets Kings right like Rising Stars Week you're watching Jalen Green Javier Fox, the Monta's a bonus, these players that you're never, ever going to, you know,

tune in for necessarily, but it's post Monday night football. You left your TV on, and that's the game on. Like, to me, there's, these guys would be more popular and would be more well-known, and they'd be more household names if they were actually on TV, but I, like, there's only so many slots. Have you seen that? There's only so many slots. You saw the whole household name thing that was going around. Oh, yeah. Dragonfly Jones put together that it became a thing where people were asking, you know, people in their lives, whether it was like their girlfriends or their wives or a friend they had that is not a sports guy and saying, like, who named five NBA players? My son and I did it to my wife this morning. Oh, whoa, who? What's she say?

Well, she named four Grizzlies and Steph Curry. So that doesn't count. Yeah, that doesn't count at all. No. And I said, I said, give me four others, non-grislies. Yeah. So I'll, I said, I'll let you have Curry. Now give me just give me four other NBA players. I mean let me tell you something. In a billion years we would have never guessed.

We would have guessed one of them. Yeah. And then in a billion years we would never have guessed the others. Who were they? LeBron, of course. LeBron, okay, yeah, yep. I would have said if we, if me and my son were guessing

who she would respond, we would have said, Janus. he's got, you know, I mean, like, Yonis has been famous. He's got a shirt that he wears that says freak across it. You know, he's got one of those Nike freak shirts. He's had Yonis shoes. Yonis has been a name.

And, I mean, she knows who that is, for sure. Maybe Durant. Honestly, Karee was a possibility simply because of shoes. You know, so we listed some others that, because my wife does not care about the NBA. I mean, she likes basketball, but she doesn't keep up. Like, that's not her thing. She don't care.

So she was actually a good one to figure out, like, household name. Curry and LeBron, for sure. It was on her list. It's one of the first five people she would name. The other three I was absolutely stunned by, when it was not a grizzles. She could name probably most of the grisans. Chris Paul.

Wow. And I didn't know if it was because of the State Farm stuff. It was obviously he's played, you know, for many, many years. And he's a famous guy. But I was, I think it's about the commercials more so with him, honestly, than the basketball. I think. And then the other two, Kevin, I'm telling you there's no amount of money in the world. I wouldn't have bet that these names would not be on there.

Who we got? James Hardin. Okay. And I said, I said, because of the B, I'm scared. She goes, I don't know. I don't know why I said, James Hardin.

And then you know what the other one was? You were going to be stunned. Nicola Yokic. Nicola Yokic. Yes. And I said, what? I said, how do you know Nicola Yokicchish? He won two MVP's.

That was not her answer. It was William, my son. Uh-huh. And I was like, so we're on the way, I was driving him to school this morning. I said, how would she know Nicola Yokens? I said, do you have like one of those little like, so they have these things that you can get it like Walgreens called Squeezy Mate. And it's like a mystery thing and you can open it up.

And there's like a player in there. It's almost like a little plushy, you know, character player. And sometimes they can be key chains. So we had these key chains on this book bag or whatever else. Anyway, I said, do you have like a Yokish squeasy mate or something that she would have seen? and he was like, no. And he's like, oh, I know what it is. The jersey.

He does have a Yokic jersey. Oh, so she's remembering the name. And he said she saw it in the laundry. He's like, she was probably doing my laundry and saw it. I was like, yeah, but she knows his first name too. And he's like, I don't know. Nicola Yokic. She spelled it with a Yokic too, which is hilarious.

Because she'd seen the jersey. She did the Yokin's in the Yon. But those were the five. Nicola Yokic, Chris Paul, James Hardin, Steph Curry, and LeBron. And we did this survey with a couple of guys I work with Daly. They either texted their girlfriends or moms or whoever they wanted to, that they know don't live basketball, keep up with it every day.

The only two that were on everybody's list were Steph and LeBron. Yeah. So I think we overstate who's a household name anyway. Not really. They are to us. We live in this bubble. But the bar is high. But the ones outside of, you know, just people that, like, it'd be the same thing if she asked me to name five people on the Kardashians.

I couldn't, I mean, I had no chance, you know. Courtney, Kendall. Or five people, how about this? Five people on Game of Thrones. I'm probably the only person you know. that hasn't watched. So you've never watched Game of Thrones? Yeah, I watched until there was like

when it, maybe, it had been out for a couple of years. And I loved the beginning of it. I watched for, I remember vividly. One night I'm watching it, and there was like this, it was like this thing that came out of this lady's vagina or something. I was like, this is goofier and shit. I turned it off and I never like turned it back on.

And everybody was like, you should have made it through there. It's like the smoke came out of her, like, vagina or something. I was like, what the hell is going on? This ain't for me. I forget the name of that character. Smoke monster or something? No, that was lost. Lost is the smoke monster.

I don't know what it was. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah. The redhead in that show. I forget the name. She was like some, I don't know, spooky, you know. Yeah, I didn't know what was going on. And I was like, you know what?

It's late. I'm like, this is stupid. She was like actually an old lady or something. that kind of hiding between the skiing up like a young person, something like that. I don't know. I forget. I'm going to watch it one day. Chris, you've got to watch it someday.

I know. I have to. It's an enjoyable ride. I know people talk about, oh, the ending didn't live up to the hype. But the journey was amazing. It was an incredible experience. At one point in my life, that's all I'd say. I did watch all the way up to that point in that first season.

Or maybe it's a second. I think it's. Let me try to find this. And I stopped. Well, I mean, I just did a quick search. It sounds like that was season six. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Are you sure, Chris?

This is in the first season. Yes. Really? Was that season one of the senior referring to here? It had been six or seven episodes in. This thing like comes out and maybe a dragon or something. I don't even remember what the hell it was. Something weird happened.

And I remember being like, what the hell? This is stupid. I don't know. I was just in a bad mood that night. I just didn't turn it back on after that. Season two. Season two it was. That happened.

Okay, so that was early on in the series. I guess I made it to then. Really, that's all, that's as far as you made it. That's disappointing, Chris. But, but you know what? I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. I respect you for having the discipline to cutting off a show that you let.

You don't want to continue. Some people have to finish a show. Like you just said, I'm done. No, here's the thing. I'm all or nothing, bro. So once I stopped getting me to pick that back up, I got 700,000 half-read books in my house.

I just never pick them back up. I'm like, I got bored that night, and I'm like, all right, done. You get what you want out of it. Yeah, that happens. Yeah, I'll just stop it. And also, there's, so much content. Yeah, right.

There's so many options. Yeah, I got severe ADHD. Which is why, like, even with our listeners, you know, it's like we highly, like, super appreciate the people who stick with us and enjoy our show because there's a lot of options for podcasts or music

or, or audiobooks. There's a lot of content out there. But, I mean, there's really not that many NBA ones that could compete with us. I mean, come on. Most of them are boring or no. I've got I got them. Trust me, I listen to them.

They're boring. Yeah, there are some boring pods. I listen to them when I go to sleep. Really? But you go to sleep? Okay. Unintentionally. So you're not putting them on.

No, no, intentionally. Yeah. I listen to it. I turn it out of the background. So you're somebody, when you go to sleep at night, you have something on TV? I do. A pod, really? I do.

I can't fall asleep. Because I was a TV sleeper when I was a kid. Okay. Is your wife too? I had a sleep timer on my TV in my room. So your wife's school would be. that. You know, you have, you know.

Oh, I put it in an AirPods. Oh, okay. So you sleep with those in your ears. God, no, she's a seven fans, chick. So you must like sleep on your back then? If you have any AirPods in your eyes, those are you're not. No, no, it's on the side.

I only use one. Oh, okay. I use one. And then I have to find the damn thing in the morning. It's somewhere in the covers. Oh, it always falls out of your head. Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, I think too much.

Okay. That's the problem. I have to have something that I've, that's taking my attention. Oh. Because otherwise, I'm just going to worry myself sick. I'll just think about everything I've got to do the next day, about when I need to do this, when I need to do that.

I just, I think, and I can't fall asleep. Is that such a bad thing, though, planning your night out? Sometimes I like doing that when I'm laying in bed and I, okay, so here's going to structure my day tomorrow. I'm going to wake up and tan. No, no, I'm saying I can't fall asleep because of it. Okay, yeah. So I need something else to focus on.

not folk, it's just something that's like, I don't know, taking over that part of my brain. I don't understand it. I don't know. I'm old now. It's what works for you, right? Everybody has their own, you know, routine. Some people meditate at night, right?

You know. All right, we do want to mention everybody. We put out the mailbag, uh, APB on Tuesday. And because the Beverly thing came down, the chat thing came out, we knew we're going to have things that we're going to discuss.

We're holding off on the mailbag questions until Tuesday. So you still got time to get those in. If you want to get some mailbag questions in, give them that email. And we'll put out something on Twitter and you can put your question up there too. But what's the email address of people more comfortable emailing?

NBA mailbag at gmail.com. Email us there. We'll check that out, pick out some of the best questions next Tuesday, or we'll do that co-tweet thing, Chris, again, where people can quote tweet that or reply to that with their questions in. Next Tuesday, we'll definitely do the mailbag

unless we get a whole bunch of other news that occupies the entire show again. Thank you, our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Kevin, I'll talk to you next week. Have a good weekend.