The Mismatch - Rethinking Prospect Rankings, Understanding the Disrespect for the Suns, and You Wanna Fight Me?

Episode Date: March 25, 2022

Verno and KOC begin the show discussing their latest NBA prospect rankings (01:09). Has Chet Holmgren fallen from the top spot after Gonzaga’s loss? Can Jaden Ivey raise his draft stock? The guys debate whether the Suns are really getting disrespected after Chris Paul’s return and clinching the top seed in the West (16:26). In a wide-open NBA, can the Grizzlies make a true run at the title (29:40)? The guys debate whether there is more behind the video of Zion Williamson dunking (38:38). They also dive into the altercation that happened on the Heat sideline between Jimmy Butler and Udonis Haslem (46:32) before Verno shares why the Nets don’t scare him, especially without Ben Simmons (53:02). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For as long as I've known the NBA, it's been a Stars League. But even among the Stars, there's an exclusive club. Russell and Dr. Jay, Jordan, Kobe. They're all part of a select group that paved the way for the NBA superstar of today. And some even shared secrets with each other along the way. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Jackie McMullen. And this is the icons club. Welcome to the mismatch.

I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Friday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k, Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Clymer, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien. That one's a layup. Kevin O'Banner. You know what's the only way up? I have a quick thought for you, Chris. I'm thinking about my heart, my gut, my soul, after the game.

games we saw on Thursday night in March Madness. It's all telling me to move Ben Carrow to number one and Holmgren down. What? Yeah, what do you think about that? I'm just curious. What do you think? I think that neither of those two guys should be number one. You think Jabari Smith should be number one?

Yes. How about Jaden Ivy? Where do you think he should be? All right. I've been thinking about this because I was listening to your podcast with Mark Titus and Tate Frazier, which is great. It's on the mismatch feed. It's called The Void.

Go listen to it. Those are two of my favorite guys in the world. I've been friends with them since their days at the Ringer. Take was my first producer. We started together at the Ringer. I love those guys, love the success they've had. And that podcast is really good. And you guys had discussions about all these different guys.

After listening to that, and I've been thinking about this a lot after watching all these guys. So I'm viewing it through the prism of if I were a decision maker in the NBA. Okay. and so let me answer it like that. I would be most scared to pass up Jabari or Ivy. Because of the shooting ability with Smith and the downhill playmaking explosive presence of Ivy like Morant. Even more so than the other two. And is that because with Chet, the lack of shot creation and with Paulo Bencaro,

the uncertainty with his perimeter shooting and his defense? I just think that I watch those two and I see scenarios where they could be absolute superstars and it's not a big stretch for me to think that.

Is it for Big Harrow after a game like last night when he's playmaking at 610 and creating every shot on the floor and hitting threes, pull-up jumpers, spinning into the lane and making an accurate kickout passes. Last night he looked absolutely sensational.

Like the guy we saw, heard about as a hard worker, as a good two-way guy in high school. I mean, it looked like the Bancaro I had hoped to see the whole year. I thought he was outstanding. I think he is an outstanding player. I, with him, one of the things that concerns me just a little bit, a little bit, is I don't know how impactful he is everywhere on the court. and honestly, while

Ben Carrow hit big shot, you know, down the stretch, I was, what I was left with was, my God, this Roach kid has the biggest balls of them all. I mean, it's two games in a row where he is delivered like that when it matters most.

He's obviously built for it. And Mark Williams, it was kind of like, you know, somebody you guys talked about on that pod. Isn't he sick, dude? Isn't he so good? I thought it was very fascinating for it to show up in the way that it did last night.

Because for those of you that listened to that podcast, it was kind of a nice little preview of things to come because one of the things that Titus said was, and I believe Tate did too, was, you know, they might be better off playing a lot more through Mark Williams or having Mark Williams more involved. And Mark Williams made himself more involved last night, both on defense and on offense. And so

I just... He's just such a good player. Like, just a straight up good basketball player. Like, he's going to be in the league 10 years. Yeah, and I always... And I got to be honest with you. I do kind of side with the mega athletes. Like, so more Javari than Pahlo, Bencaro.

And Ivy. Ivy and Javari, like, these guys, are, I mean, Freiko athletes. Yeah. They are. Ivy, especially. Yes.

Like, athleticism is verticality, but it's also like, you know, lateral movements, too. And that's where Jabari Smith, he has it on defense, but it's a shock creator. It's not there yet. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's not, but will it be?

I look at him and, to me, I look at Jabari. and say he's one of those, holy mackle. What could this guy, what is this guy going to look like? Could Jabari Smith, the way I think about him is, what if he's a six foot 10 Ray Allen? Primary Allen, people forget not just a spot up shooter who came off screens. He was a guy who attacked off the dribble, went to the basket, but wasn't like a primary ball handler, but he could be one of the primary ball handlers.

Is that where you see Javari Smith as a six foot ten? version of that in the modern NBA? I don't know if he's going to be the primary ball handler, but I mean... Which is okay. Which is it's okay if you're not the primary. I just see, I see a lot of these guys that have been very successful in the NBA, whether and this year it's Mobley, you know, I see a lot of that and especially on the defensive end. And you guys talked about, you were bringing up Robert Williams and the idea of, and

the bucks used this very successfully. With Janice, if you've got Brooke Lopez, like if you've got one of these type of guys, and we're seeing it in Memphis with Jaron Jackson Jr., where Stephen Adams is there, but if they want to go small, he can move to the five, and then you've got this guy that can fly around and just block everything, and he can play you off the pick and roll. You're never going to get targeted, you know, with these kind of guys. And Chet falls into this class, too. I mean, I think if you can get a situation where you flank these guys with someone else that's having to man up with the center and you let them be out of range and let them be a rover of sorts, almost where they can play free safety, that is devastating and absolutely transformative for your defense.

And I see that with Jabari. I look at him and say, well, his defense is even going to be ahead of his offense immediately. And when it all, when he grows into all of it, this guy with, you know, the handle's got to get a little bit tighter. But the shot looks so sweet. And he is, I don't know, man. I look at those. I'll rephrase what I said at the beginning. I'd be most scared to pass on those two because if you told me,

they're going to be 10 time all stars and Hall of Famers. Like it's not, obviously, that's a massive stretch. But you wouldn't rule it out. That's what you're saying. I'm just saying to me, I'd be most fearful that that could happen

and that I passed on a franchise. I think those guys are more likely to be franchise alter. How about that? So with Ben Carroll, last thought on him that I have. One, like right to him. right now today Bencaro can do something at a high level

that Smith and Holmgren can't and that's create shots off the dribble. Isn't that the most important, you know, elite skill to have? And Bencaro, if the ball is put in his hands all year long for Duke,

if he's empowered all year long with the ball, they're winning more games than they did. That's sort of the way I feel. Maybe. But like maybe, maybe he's more locked in. Like the questions on my mind about Banerero, O.R. Out of high school I hear

about him as a hardworking choir. As somebody who wants to be great. And then in college, he looks like he's totally checked out. Like, he just doesn't care. I want to understand why that is. You know, what were the factors that went into that? Why does he suddenly play like a guy who wants to kill everybody now?

Like, why is this just starting in March Madness? It's just, it's all very strange, but all I know is the guy I saw in so far in all the games in the tournament, but especially in that win last night for Duke, that looked like the guy that I had hoped to see all season long with Duke and the type of guy that I could foresee

thriving in an NBA offense as one of the initiators as the primary scores, but also a guy who can share the ball a little bit too. Like my mind went straight to Oklahoma City last night. What if you plugged Bankero in with Gildes, Alexander and Gidey? Those guys can move the ball. You can act like Poku doesn't exist, Kim.

I mean, let's talk about the two best players on the team. not the third how dare you you're just going to act like he's not there he can play with Van Carrow but let's but let's but if you put Van Carrow

that's the thing Chris this this year's draft class it is so situational yeah but depending on who gets the number one pick is going to determine who should go first it's not just about a clear BPA it's about the best pick because I don't love Van Carrow in Houston

I don't love him with Jalen Green I want to see him see him with ball movers like giddy and SGA guys who can move the ball whipping around but also slow it down and play isolate post-up style I don't know I think Bencaro on a team like that I get I get really fired up about what the possibilities could be

I don't want this to come off like I don't like the kid or I think it's not going to be good you do you're just fascinated by the others that's all yes that's okay I think it's that type of year You can pick any of those three and I'm not really all about having some big old argument.

We can have those arguments when we know the draft order and where players should go. But like if you have Smith, even if you have Ivy number one on your board, I'm not flipping out. I'm not about to like, you know, say you're, you let's argue about this. Well, it's fascinating because Kev,

you look at those guys, Chet's out and Bancaro is still around and Javari is out. And if we're just going by the four that John Hollinger was on with us and he said he thinks that there's on the majority of boards there's going to be a divide that there are the four that are, you know, consensus. It would take somebody breaking into those. A shade and sharp like we talk. Yeah,

kind of a random guy. Yeah, this is one of those opportunities where Jaden Ivy, if he goes to the final four and he's the man. Yeah. Or he carries Purdue to a national. championship, get ready. That's a lot. It'll start. Well, because look, even as this goes on, there is going to be the talk of you are more likely going to get immediate results from an Ivy than you are the big guys. Ben Carrow. We know this.

Or Holmgren. It all depends on their role. Or Jabari. They're not going to have the ball in their role. hands immediately. Because Ivy can create. That's the thing with Ben Carroll, he can create too. And look up and down the NBA right now. Yes, there are a lot of good bigs, but you know you're going to wait a couple years. The bigs have taken and, you know, let's set aside Mobley, okay, because this was a different proposition than what we've dealt with recently. It's usually a couple of years.

and sometimes maybe even three or four down the line before these guys become what they are going to become. Eight, Aiton. Yeah, and think no further than who is the best player in the league or certainly in the argument, no matter what kind of argument you want to have. Janice. Yeah. You know, and he was more of a project, yes, but. Yonkut and Embed, too, you know, for different reasons.

But people even in year, in year four of Yonis. I think if I would have come on here and I would have said, this guy's going to score 50 points in an elimination game in the NBA finals, people will be like, shut up. Like, he's good, but come on. He's not going to be like multiple MVP, like in the MVP conversation every year, best player on a team,

take him to a title, you know, that kind of stuff. But it does take a little more time. And I think that that is a little bit different than in the past. we've talked about that, where the perimeter guys have actually had an easier time coming in and having early success and being rather impactful. And that applies to Luca, that applies to Trey, that applies to Jom Morant, that applies to a lot of these different players that have come in. Whereas the bigger guys have taken a little bit longer to be super impactful.

it is a guard and perimeter dominated game now. And so Ivy, that's what I say. If he keeps on this track, he hits some game winners or goes off and carries them to the final four. There's certainly a monster favorite right now. I think they're like a 12 and a half point favorite against St. Peter's. So the expectation is they're going to be in the next run. And he might be last man standing. on this deal. And if he is, now you've got him in that discussion and people talking about

why would I not take this guy number one? Like, I do think that there's going to be a real argument. And, you know, for Jabari and for Chet, it didn't end well for them. Their last games were not super impressive, nowhere near what people had watched throughout the year that made them fall in love with them. And for Ivy and Van Carrow, that is totally the opposite. You've seen some of the best of. Ivy in that second half of that Purdue game, their last game, and then Bancaro last night. Yep. You know, and I, all three for Big Carrow to be. All three. That's right. And how much do you want to weigh it? You know, there's a question. It's a tough thing about it. And I think you nailed it. These guys, is Ivy and Bencaro have an opportunity.

If they do advance, like we could see them match up in the final four. That could be the matchup, Duke versus Purdue, if it gets to that point. And we're going to see, those guys are going to get a chance. The one thing I know, Chris, is if you're an NBA team

with a chance to have a top lottery pick, I'd be very happy to have any of those four guys on my franchise, any of the four. I think that is without question. We got the very, very, very good top of this draft. Absolutely. Regarding the NBA, last night, the sons got Chris Paul back. They won again as they have most nights throughout this NBA season.

They set a record for road winning percentage last night, eclipsing one of the Warriors' records from when they were on their incredible run. and Chris Paul looked just fine. He was fantastic, plugged back into the Sons. And Devin Booker has been amazing. And one of the things that has been relevant over the course of the last couple of weeks is this idea that the Sons are disrespected. They don't get talked about like other teams do.

They are not in awards conversations like other teams are or other players are, and yet they've won and won. Devin Booker in his postgame press conference said, quoted Birdman, stop playing with my name. Stop playing with my name. And I ain't going to take no boat. You know, they asked about MVP.

And like kind of why he's not in the mix for MVP. I was on a Phoenix Sun podcast. with our old buddy Lindsey Smith last week, and they were asking me. She's the best. She's so good. Devin Booker. And, you know, my answer to them was,

and this isn't fair. So let me be clear on this. But I do think over the course of the last couple of years, for Monty Williams and Devin Booker and maybe DeAndre Aiton and others, that the fact that they vaulted to, a team that was making the NBA finals, when they acquired Chris Paul, that Chris Paul then takes,

he's, and not because he wants to, but he just does soak up that credit. You know what I mean? And so while other people have improved, or while other people have done amazing jobs themselves, generally people look at it and say, the sons are now the sons because of Chris Paul.

And so it ends up taking away in this bizarre way from what Devin Booker has become and what he has done. What Monty Williams did last year, you know, because he didn't win coach of the year last year. He probably will win this year even though Taylor Jenkins in Memphis might be, you know, more deserving. It would, you know, it becomes a two-year award because you can't go two years in a row. without giving Monty Williams credit for what he's done this year and last year in Phoenix. But I do think that you're still kind of getting over. And them continuing to win and Booker being so great in the absence of Chris Paul really drew attention to all of this. But whether it's Monty, Coach of the Year, or Booker should be getting MVP talk, or McKell Bridges should be getting defensive player.

of the he should be the defensive player of the year favorite. Whatever it may be, you know, the story has become, this has been the best team in the NBA by a pretty good margin and yet they feel disrespectful. Yeah, it's strange. Like I saw the reaction to

Rosgold, what she said about Devin Booker on NBA Twitter. Sun's fans were all over her saying it was like idiotic and like, why is this person on TV and all that? and like it's the type of thing it's like all she's really saying is that Devin Booker shouldn't be the MVP

is that really that outrageous of the thing to say when Joelle Embed and Nicole Yolkich and Janice are having the seasons that they are that's all she's saying and I just I found the reactions from Sun's Twitter to be way too harsh considering that um Devin Booker is clearly a guy that deserves all NBA consideration like no kidding that wasn't what they were talking about on TV I don't think it's some wild statement to say he shouldn't be MVP

Devin Booker showed in last night's game why he is indeed as you said one of those guys who is totally deserving of credit for why the sons are such a dominant force ever since by the way before they got Chris Paul they went undefeated in the bubble yeah this all started in the summer of 2020 and devon booker d'andre 8 mackel bridges All of these guys have gotten way better since then. And I think with Chris Paul coming back in last science game, what we saw over the time that he was away, we saw all of that improvement from Booker with his creation, with the elite efficient scoring on a higher volume. We saw it from Bridges. We saw it from Cam Johnson.

When he was in there, we saw it from Aiton. We saw it from all the guys in the campaign. We saw it from everybody on this team. how much better they've all gotten as young players in their own way. And now you had Chris Paul back into that. To me, it's just even more clear that the Sons are the favored in the West, that they're the favorite to make the NBA finals. That is the most interesting thing for me to talk about that I feel and think about

with the Sons more so that Booker win, like, should he be, should he plays fifth in MVP voting? Who cares? Who cares? Like, it doesn't matter. He's not going to win it. He shouldn't win it. Maybe someday he'll be in that discussion. he is not this year. I will say on the Phoenix front that for a team to be so much better than everybody else. It still feels a perspective.

I mean, I. And still feel that way as a fan base? Most people. Understandably so. I would roll my, most I would roll my eyes and be like, it's ridiculous. Yeah. But with them, you get it. With them you get it.

I do. Because they don't get to love that. They don't. They've been far and away the best team and they turn on NBA today and they're talking about the damn Lakers. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? It is totally understandable for Suns fans as a whole to feel slighted to feel like they're not getting the credit they deserve. But like the Rosgold thing, I don't think that was really that big of the other.

I thought that was a big overreaction to be honest. Like that part particularly, like let's relax. I live in a city where. three days ago, ESPN brought the entire day to Memphis. And what was that like? How was that? From morning, from morning until night. I mean, literally every show, everybody was it good?

Was it good? Was it cool? I mean. How Grizzlies fans react, I guess, is the question I say. Yeah, I think, look, I think that all that mattered was the game and the fact that they played like they did against Brooklyn in the absence of John Morant. on a national stage and that people got to get a good gauge of. And you had a lot of people afterwards saying,

my God, I love that team or that team is so fun or look at the camaraderie. They remind me of a college team or whatever it may be. And I think that was the bonus. It was more so the game than it was them being around all day. So fans weren't like, oh, my God. Oh, my goodness. No.

Just curious. It's okay. No. I don't know what it's like to grow up rooting for a small market team like that. I like growing up. It was like it was normal in Boston for growing up for me for like the national places to be there. You know what I mean? It was never a cool thing.

Well, I mean, look, I got to be out. If I'm going to be honest with you and I, I'm a, I'm a fed of Stephen A and mad dog. Yeah. I mean, I got up as a Mimpeon. I got up and I turned it on. Yeah. And Stephen A is acting as if people in Memphis care about Elvis. He's like, why do they have Elvis billboards every?

And it's like, what are you? I've lived here for over 21 years. I've never, I mean, I don't even know what he's talking about. He's like, why does John Moran not have billboards? I don't even know where the hell he saw this billboard. So it's really, it's really all, really the feeling was who were all these coastal elites coming in our city. It was like, I don't

even know what you're talking. And he's like, Elvis is dead. We're like, we know. Like, it's not even like part of the culture. And then the second one was like basically arguing that the Grizzlies can't beat the warriors. And I'm like, just go home. Like, why are you even here? Like, this is not.

Not to mention, he had a picture of the Memphis skyline behind him from like two, 2002. It's not even, like, the buildings or whatever that were behind him, like, they don't even exist anymore. And I'm like, oh, God. Like, just go, like, this is goofy. Like, so, yeah, when it's like, these people are stuck into the past and still care about Elvis.

And then they can't beat the warriors. I'm like, yeah, this is great. I turned it off. I was like, this is bullshit. Yeah, they come here, they come there and they talk about three things. Yeah, I mean, it's Elvis. the Warriors, it's a big MLK City. Well, I'm going to be honest.

It's rather obvious. 90% of them have never watched a Grizzly game ever, ever. I have a tremendous respect. Kendrick Perkins has been on the Grizzlies. Pretty good player. Yeah, Perkins has been on the Grizzlies all year. And Zach Lowe has a great awareness of every NBA team. And so I don't want to say all of them.

Except for the Suns. Suns fans would say. That's right. Maybe not. I hope they get a couple of awards just so they can cool out. I think they will. I did my all NBAs last night. Like not official, but like, you know, exercise.

Booker should be on there. Paul should probably be on there, too, despite the games missed. I think they should have two all-MBA guys and bridges on all defensive. Totally fair. That's fair. And I will tell you, as someone who has been on this role for 20 years, don't resent the that chip on the shoulder

that chip on the shoulder is good yes you want that the last like I said I grew up I grew up rooting for teams that are in championships every year the last thing you want is a team that doesn't have a chip on their shoulder you don't those are the teams

that losing the playoffs those are the teams that get upset by worst teams those are the teams that piss you off in the end because they didn't live up to their potential well the teams that have a chip on their shoulder are the ones that are a threat, even when they're already the best.

And so for Suns fans, you're going to be happy when you feel this disrespect. You know who this applies to? Gonzaga. Yeah. Because they ran up against Eric Musselman, and Eric Musselman was telling them Arkansas kids.

Oh, you saw him post game. If you don't think we can win, don't get on the bus. Nobody believes in you. We're 10-point underdogs, you know, whatever. And it's like, oh, God. You want to feel that. I mean, yeah.

So I don't, I think it can really play to your benefit. 100% in. Yeah, by the way, I went to, I went to Grizzly's Pacers last night and just intensely lame. And can I just mention that during the trade deadline, everybody in the free world was acting like the Kings traded Michael Jordan when they moved Halliburton. I've told you in the past, there's always these guys. that when I see them in person, like I've always got a higher opinion

because they're so good. Every time I've watched this guy play against Bifis, he does jack shit. It is the weirdest thing. And I'm like, why does everybody love this guy so much? Like, he never does anything.

He's not impactful at all. The last time I saw me at four points. And I think last night he had like nine, and they were just a waste of time. Now, they're trying to tank. They ain't playing anybody. They had one of the best injury reports I've ever seen. They had a guy sit out and you know what it said next to his name?

Headache. The guy sat out and said a headache. I was like, you didn't even want to say it was like toe or thumb or something. They say you got a headache. Hey, man. Some of those migraints can be serious business for people. Yeah. Well, it is worth mentioning before the game the Grizzies announced that we are not going to see John Morant again in the regular season.

How do you feel about that with him coming right back playoffs, game long? Is that going to work? Yeah. And it's worked all year, I suppose, right? It's worked all year. And they are 16 and 2 with him out. And so they have the luxury of him being able to sit and still being fantastic. Isn't it crazy how good they are without him?

Insane. The team just keeps on rolling. It's 16 and 2. Yeah, and that's when things all started, you know, to turn around back in December when it looked like he got hurt and it was terrifying. And then the team kept rolling and now, again, still continuing to flourish. That's right. This Grizzlies team, but Desmond Bain, Jaron Jackson, Jones, even guys like Zaire Williams. Like Zaire, nobody talks about Zire Williams, but his defense is so good for a rookie.

I don't know, man. This Grizzlies team just, they have guys that can step up, melting, conchar. in so many different ways. I love your grizzlies, dude. Well, and here's the thing, Kevin. We were talking about dangerous teams, and Phoenix is clearly the overwhelming favorite. But this season, it is not a high mark, okay,

to shoot 34% from three. If I told you somebody shot 34% from three for a game, you would say pretty good. It's like league average, right? 34%, maybe a little bit higher. than league average, or I mean a little bit lower than league average. But if you shot 34%, when they shoot 34%, which is not a high market,

when they shoot 34% from three, they are 34 and 3 this season. 34 and 3. Just shooting 34%. And the last couple of games, they have shot the cover off the ball. and they've scored 130 a couple times. So just keep an eye on that

because when they shoot well from three, they have been virtually unbeatable this season. Are you at the point with Memphis that, like we just talked about the sons of a favorite. Are the Grizzlies indeed like a tick below them with like a couple of other teams in that next level? I've been one of those that have said throughout this year, anything is possible, you know, in terms of, I think the ceiling and the floor,

anything is possible simply because... From first round exit to NBA finals, that type of thing. It's just a different game. Yeah. It's a different game when you get to the playoffs. And they experienced it one time against Utah last year. And so now we're going to see. I think your approach is incredibly healthy.

Yeah, I think it's fair to see. I mean that sincerely. I really do. It could be a first round exit. Or you could go all the way to the NBA finals. It really could be that case for Memphis. And by the way, either way, I still think the season is a victory because of everything else.

It's like, it's like forget about the wins in a way. It's about, oh, John Moran became an MVP candidate. Oh, Desmond Bayne became a guy who put up numbers and actually had a season better than your guy, Andrew Wiggins, who is an all-star. Maybe next year, Desmond Bain will be the all-star. Losing, losing in the first round would be a colossal disappointment. It would. It would.

It would be. Losing in the second round would not. It would be a crash landing for an amazing season. Yes. People would look back at that and be like that. It would be a major crash landing. But I don't think it would change the fact that as much as it would hurt to stomach that, it's still an overall positive year, even though it's a crash landing.

Speaking of first round exits, I was thinking about this this morning when I was looking through the standings because we are going to have a furious race down the stretch here where there is still a tremendous amount to be decided. We'll get to the bottom of the standings in a minute. But if you just look at the middle of those standings, we're going to get another game between the T-Wolves and the Mats, which was a great game that we talked about earlier in the week. They had just played on Monday when we did our Tuesday show.

We're going to see them play against each other again. And, you know, looking at where the standings are right now, if it did stay like it is and four or five ends up being Utah, Dallas, well, you want to talk about some things being, you know, changed based upon that because one of those would get knocked out in the first round. And if it's Dallas, it's another year where it's been like, you know, what, a decade since they got past the first round? And for Utah, it's another year where it ends early.

And I think that, look, if Utah doesn't win big this year, I think everybody around the league has been talking about how they, that could change. Trader Danny's there now. Trader Danny. They may flip. What's he going to do with Gobert? That would be my number one question. What's Danny Ains going to do with Rudy Gobert if the Utah Jazz lose?

That would be the question on my mind. Not Mitchell. Mitchell, you want to keep him. Like I know, I know for a fact, Angel would want to keep Mitchell. Would he want to keep Gobert is my question. Maybe he would, but I would be asking that question. Well, and all of those spots are still to be decided. it's hard to analyze, but I couldn't help but notice that right now those two would be playing

each other. And sometimes series can end up being much more impactful for the future of the league than others. And one of those two teams taking a first round loss, because at that point, you'd be like, hey, you better start building around Luca with a team that can win big, you know. And on the other side, it would be, this may be the end of the line for the Utah Conley Mitchell-Gobert run. Exactly. For the jazz, the end could feel immediate. For the Mavs, the questions would start to bubble up a little bit more.

Are they going to be able to build a winning team around Luca? Or are we going to be talking about him as a guy going to Miami or L.A.? Yep. So anyway, there's a ton to be decided. Miami or L.A. We'll see. The playoff race with less than 10 games left. Who would have thought that at the beginning of the season,

if I would have told you, we're going to look up, At the end of March, and that Russell Westbrook is going to say that the Pelicans-Lakers game is a must-win. Yeah, must-win, baby. Kevin, if I would have told you, because of the impact it could have on the 9th and 10th seeds in the Western Conference, Russell Westbrook is going to say that the Lakers Pelicans game at the end of March is a, must win game. I mean, you want to talk about unpredictable things.

I mean, you know what we would have thought back in October? Oh, the Pelicans weren't lions. I mean, it's coming back. Yep. That's what we would have thought. Oh, wait, the Pelicans are like, I don't know, top of the Western Conference, both of these scenes.

Well, come on. We also would have, yeah, and we also would be like, what the hell are the Lakers doing in nine? Nine? Yeah. If we heard that at the beginning of the season, no, I'm saying, we would think they'd be up top.

Yeah. It's hard to believe. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard to believe that it is what it actually is right now, that they're both 31 and 42 with just, you know, a handful of games left in the season. Well, and an enormous weekend for New Orleans,

because they have the Spurs and the Lakers. Yeah. And the Spurs right now are only two games back from the both of them. Spurs should be tanking, dude. Are they watching March Madness? Tank. Tank, tank, stop,

trying to win games. Popp has already get the record. You can stop now. It's not in their DNA. Start throwing out some dumb lineups, Pop, like tank,

like tank, get those odds. It's not their DNA. They may end up making the play it. I mean, chances are they'll still draft like Kauai Leonard with the 12th pick anyway.

That would be a colossal disaster for New Orleans. Oh, yeah. If they were to fall out, considering everything that they've done and want to do. Yep. Yeah. Did you see the video of Zion Duncan?

Was that wild? Did I see? Just being sure that, you know. So I saw Brian Winhorst on, he was on, I don't know what one of those shows. Vince Carter was on there. And they, they asked him about it. And he just kind of mentioned that he had not been cleared. to do that and that he posted that video and that that was not what he was supposed to be doing,

like I guess a violation, if you want to call it that, of what he had been cleared to do. And so it did make it feel kind of like a double bird, you know, and it's like the idea that they are not necessarily on the same page, which that stands to reason. And then we saw the whole one-on-one with Corey Brewer thing the next day, so they had cleared him to do that. So obviously a little bit at odds with, I mean, because I don't, again, he would know that situation much better than me and David Griffin and everything involved down there. But I got the sense that the Pelicans were not thrilled. From that reporting, it made it sound like the Pelicans are not thrilled with that video coming out in the manner that it did with just him putting it out there.

You know what I thought? Willie Green, there was a video posted about Willie Green, his pre- or post-practice video the day after. Like, Willie Green felt like a politician to me talking about Zion. You know what I mean? Like when a coach gets into political mode and they're trying to give like the right answer and give the company line. That's what it felt like to me. There was no excitement like, oh my God, wow. We actually saw our guys getting back healthy. It was like, oh, kind of tiptoeing around the issue.

That's what it was. And I think that kind of is another thing that relates to what Windhorst is talking about. But yeah, it's all very strange. Everything was I on a strange. Everything. Even like this viral video he posted him dunking off the backboard between the legs. even that strange. Why wouldn't he just talk?

Zion? Yeah. So you want more. You want him to go like on, you know, on Spotify Green Room and talk live about a situation. Why wouldn't he talk at all? Like to the media. Just anybody.

He could just get on, you know, he could say anything he wants to. Nobody, obviously nobody can control it. He could do Twitch right now. He could, you know. He does whatever he wants. anyway, obviously. Right?

I mean, it's not like, he wanted to go to Portland to do the stuff, to do the rehab and stuff. So he did it. He wanted to post that video of him, Duncan at their facility. So he did it. You know, I mean, if he wanted to say,

like, hey, here's the deal. He could. Nobody can stop you. But one thing Willie Green did say is that he did go one-on-one. Willie Green did say he went one-on-one for the first time. That was the day after the video was posted that Zion went one-on-one. There's a video of it.

Corey Brewer can't guard him. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Corey Brewer cannot guard him. I'm just saying like Willie Green said that was the first time that happened. The first time he went one-on-one. Like he knows. He might have been playing one-on-one for the last month.

Well, I know, but like according to the team, like the team company line, I'm saying, you know? Yes. Right. And they cleared him after he posted the video. That's what it made it sound like, that that was a reaction to. Like, they weren't going to clear him to do that stuff. I mean, because I'm sure they're thinking about it. Like, hey, man, this guy's played 85 games in three years.

He's our franchise player. We're playing it safe on this. Which is totally understandable, right? We have seen these teams be more. much more careful now with these players than maybe in the past. Because otherwise, I mean, they are in a win now situation. They are. With the situation with the,

they made them a column trade, they obviously would have a chance, you know, at being a playoff team. They're going to have that opportunity more than likely to play themselves in to the playoffs. but they have erred on the side of safety with this. And so I don't know.

I don't know what to make of it at all. I really don't. And I don't think anybody does. I don't think anybody does. You know? It's all very strange. That wind horse report was, yeah, very unusual to get something like that.

So specific about his status and what he's able and are not able to do. an enormous weekend. We've got those games that are going to be going on. We also, to update a couple of things that we talked about on Tuesday, Paul George cleared. Oh, boy. So that changes things already. It changes things.

Because Paul George and the Clippers knocked off Utah last year. we know they are a capable and dangerous team. Do they have a ceiling without Kauai Leonard? I think yes. But in terms of being dangerous for any first round opponent, if they get Paul George back and Paul George is Paul George, we saw them play what we all thought was a better team than them. last year

and they beat them. And they've got wings on wings on wings. Reggie Jackson was great in the playoffs last year. George was great. And so them getting him back into the fold probably has the most dramatic impact on what a team can be as any of these injuries.

I mean, I think probably even greater than Jamal Murray coming back because we don't know on the Murray front. You know, Paul George has been playing pick up basketball and is now cleared

to practice fully with the clippers. I mean, they get a, they get a right, Paul George. The clippers become dangerous.

I mean, and we have not heard anything on the Kauai front. Oh, except for Skip Bayless. Except for Skip Bayless, which we have that. We'll see. I mean, Terrence Mann, after a game earlier this week,

I mentioned this at the end of that void pod, you mentioned, but they lose the game. He's like, it's okay, we got guys coming back. He might have just been talking about Paul, George, and Norman Powell, but he also could have been talking about Kauiland or two. Would that be something else, man? Something to monitor. Something to monitor for sure.

Isn't it crazy to think? think about, I mean, we talked about it enough already. Like, you know, can a guy come back last day of the season and then playoffs? Load management. Load management. The king. The goat of load management. I got a kick out of it.

I really do. Load management goat. We'll see. Look, one and a half games separating the top four in the Eastern Conference. So when we say there is a lot to be decided, there are. is a lot to be decided. And this was made possible by a faltering Miami heat

as of light. And we saw it all blow up the other night in their game against the Warriors. And then I mean, I watched every angle of this altercation, Kevin.

All of it. Shout out to whoever was in the crowd and got the video. That was, actually taken by Scorsese. It was. Okay. Good. Because

if it were not for Martin Scorsese's video from the crowd, we wouldn't have known that Eric Spolstra said to him, you want to fight me? Which is something

you would never in a billion years think it's a phrase Eric's postural would be saying. He, and he's looking at him like he's a nutball and that says, you want to fight me? And next thing you know, Udana says, if you've ever wondered why they keep paying Udana's Haslam, though he is like, obviously, he is the keeper of heat culture. he is the bouncer for heat culture. The flame. And it makes absolutely no different who it is that gets out of line.

Udana's Hazlum is going to make sure that heat culture is honored. He's like, let's go now. Let's go now. Well, and let's be fair, over the course of the years, heat culture can mean beating each other's asses. you know, to hear people that have covered the heat before, people aren't all that surprised. Yeah. That something like that happens,

that it usually just doesn't take place in public. Because whenever the heat have had losing streaks or lost over the years, they have been known to be a team that stuff does boil over. Because if you are part of heat culture is acquiring a bunch of Rottweilers, And if you're going to throw all those kind of alpha male, Robweiler, mega aggressive dudes, when things go bad and they're all so competitive, now they may fight each other.

Like, it's possible because, but that's why they are who they are, because they're wired that way. PJ Tucker after the game was like, I was laughing about it. Right. Yeah. I mean, you saw Karam Butler is there, is an assistant coach. He's standing in the back.

around like nothing. No, nothing was happening. He's not even faged. Yeah. Like a lot of teams, if things like that

happened, everybody would be freaking out. They weren't freaking out at all. I did think Spolstra did a little bit of the hold me back thing. You know,

because it kind of boils over and then he throws the clipboard and then he's like running out on the court, yelling at him and whatever. And it's like, okay, now that they're all out in the open.

He can't, what was he going to do, fight me out here? And so he kind of did a little bit of the hold me back thing. I mean, you are, you know.

Do you imagine if Spolster and Butler actually did get into a fist fight, court side? No. No. No, I can. I can.

But I do think, you know, it led for a lot of people to say, hey, Jimmy Butler pisses up, people off everywhere he goes, and this is what happens and whatever else.

I mean, look, time will tell. The lights just dropped down on the arena. and they go right on them on the bench. Time will tell, but I wouldn't overreact. I wouldn't overreact to what that means for their team. I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't.

Because I just think you, when you put all those personalities and then things aren't going well, like, yeah, guys that are that competitive and that, you know, the reason they are the way they are is because they're wired that way. Well, yeah, and that's why with this heat team, I don't know, like any type of team, doesn't matter if it's your call-a-duty team or it's your basketball team at a youth level or it's your NBA team. If you can hold each other accountable and have those tough conversations and arguments and sometimes fights but still continue to live with each other and love each other and work together as one collective unit, then sometimes that stuff can be incredibly healthy and bond you tighter,

together because you know, through adversity, you can grow together. So for this heat team, if they're doing, if they're having stuff like this happen all the time, it practices and huddles during closed games or disappointing games, that's one of the reasons why, like you just said, they're wired the way they are. For them, this is normal. This is a way to grow together and a way to learn together. So I don't, I don't worry about it at all with what they can be in the postseason. I worry more about just the depth of talent that's in the Eastern Conference that they're going

to have to intend against. Oh, and then most teams have like one or two of those guys that are like seven. Yeah. I mean, if you're going to have a bunch of them, those are the kind of guys that get after each other when they're on opposite teams and you just threw them all on the same team. Yeah. That's what makes them so fun. I mean, when one of the Morris twins is holding people back, you're like, oh, God.

Yeah. Like, if a Morris twin is holding people back, then you got some rough dudes. because he's not even involved in the mess. He's a peacekeeper for God's sakes. Like, he's the toughest guy on 90% of these teams probably. They actually became a yogi during his time off recovering from Yokish. I'm sure he did. Look, they're not going to be able to figure out with everybody being a game and a half within each other.

The jockeying to try to like stay away from Brooklyn if you want to is going to be damn they're impossible because you're not going to know when to win and when to lose down the stretch with everybody so close to each other. Let me just say, I saw Brooklyn in person this week, as you know, I would not be scared of them without Simmons. Without Simmons? No, I would not. I would not be scared of them without Simmons.

I wouldn't. That's a bold statement, I think. You know why I say that? Defense sucks. It sucks. And you're not a fan of Andre Drummond in the room protector? what what no um their defense stinks and i mean i watched karee and k d have almost 80 and still lose i mean it's a lot on them now curry wasn't playing in the game druggitch wasn't playing in the game but i mean it's

not like curry and druggitch are going to help them defensively in some kind of massive way and I do think that, you know, when you, I never want to put anything past Kevin Durant. And Kyrie put on one of the most unbelievable offensive performances I've ever seen in person. And then in the end, they scored 120 and they lose because they give up 132 in the game. That bench was terrible.

Horrible! Yeah, it was horrible. Knock thing. It wasn't even the drumming minutes. Like, I say that kind of, you know, They got nothing. Yeah, the bench was horrible. They got outscored.

Their bench got outscored 52 to 11. I mean, that night you have, this is the fear I have for Brooklyn. You have Kyrie Irving playing 44 minutes and KD playing 40 minutes. They're already getting playoff bets. Right? They already are. And here's my thing. My thing is, look, Curry will help having him back.

He wasn't there. Draggich will help. They got to have Simmons. They do. They got to have Simmons to deal with one of those top four teams. I don't think in the absence of Simmons that they've got enough. I don't. They got star power for sure.

But I'm telling you, I saw those stars be superstars. And it not be enough. So forgive me when I watch them and think, man, You know, whether it's Miami, whether it's Boston, whether it's Philly, whether it's, and I know they had that great game against Philly, even without Simmons earlier this year. I just think over the course of a seven-game series and, you know, the defensive prowess that you need, I'm not sure they can bring that to the table. And I do think that Simmons could, honestly, if I be a fair, he could be transformative. I do. I think he could be transformative for their defense.

I think it changes everything for their defense. If he is the Ben Simmons that we once knew. Yep. But in his absence, I would not be terrified of them. And you're saying you're not terrified if you're the Bucks, not if you're the Raptors. Correct. But that's not who's the plan. I mean, look, look,

Look, if you're Miami, if you're Milwaukee, if you're Boston, if you're Philly, you got home court advantage over that team. And I'm saying if they have Simmons, I'm terrified of that. If we assume Simmons is simple. If they don't, it's hard for me to watch those guys be that awesome, play that many minutes. Because they ain't got a lot outside of them. they really don't.

Did you see what the Celtics did on their five-game road trip? I mean. Five and no. They just beat the shit out of people. Mm-hmm. Golden State, Sacramento, Denver, OKC, Utah. Smack them all. Five-game road trip.

You think they got a chance? You think they could be an NBA finals? Great question, Chris. Let's direct our listeners. to our last eight episodes for the answer. Oh, man. Oh, anyway, so I'm very excited about this weekend.

A lot of stuff is going to get hashed out. And also, these Sweet 16 and then Elite 8 games, where I do think, as we mentioned earlier, can have a tremendous impact on the draft. I do. Especially the very, very top of the draft. A couple of teams that were bounced last night. you know, had some draft picks on them, including high ones like Chet.

But you've got two of those top four still around, and then you never know who can emerge when you get to the lights being the brightest, which they are going to be on college basketball. Oh, before we get out of here, there's one guy, I got to get you off of them, Kev. I got to get you off. Who's that? You know who I'm going to say? No, no idea. Telling you. Look, because it's not a French point card.

Let me just say that. Okay, thank you. I mean, I have a problem with the French. But you do have one other problem. I do. I have a big problem with the French. Who would, no. Who is?

They give me trouble. What are the, what, what is the other type of player that you fall in love with? The, the, the player who all they have is a missing jump shot. Oh, yeah, you do kind of like the missing jump shot. I had a big Justice Winslow face. Oh, boy. Big Winslow fan. I was never a big Stanley Johnson fan,

and he's the one who's better than Winslow now. Even though Winslow had the higher a highs. But yeah, anyway. The mystery box player, the Shaden Sharp, the Killian Hades? No, the big athletic, seven-footer, shot blocker, you know, extraordinary. Get off that kid at Arizona.

No. Coloco? Coloco? No. Why? No. Why? Tell me why, Chris.

You see that Chuck A. That Chuck Hays looking dude for TCU. Put that bitch in the third row like five times. You were texting me about Coloco this, Coloco that. I like, it gets to the end of the game and I'm like, shit. This Chuck Hays looking dude is putting this dude on ice. Get off of him. No.

No. No. Absolutely not. We're not falling for it, Kev. It's Chuck Hayes looking, dude. Get off it. I don't think I don't think that's my type, like, though. I don't think I, I have done. Oh, I knew you'd love Coloco. Everybody's going crazy about Matherin and you love Coloco. Yeah, I mean, I'm going crazy about Matherin, too. Yeah. Yeah, but, you know, Coloco's nice. That's, hey, Mathering.

in his heat culture. Let me tell you that. Yeah. And I was reading up about him. So was our Chuck Hay is on BCU. TCU. Yeah. TCU.

Obviously, I don't know what my brain is. Look, look. That Matherer kid, I was reading up about him. I mean, he hadn't even been playing basketball that long. He really has it. I can't believe he shoots the shit out of the ball like he did. You know, at the end of that round of 32 game, that great game they had

against TCU I couldn't believe that he shoots like he does and you know he's got to brush up on some skill stuff I know his left hand he's kind of weak and whatever but good grief to frame on that kid

and he is a dog that that donkey head was it's the same by the way the donkey head was on the kid the same chuck

looking dude that was body in your big stiff that stands in front of the basket like Ashim the beat. I mean, it's hard. It's hard in college. It is hard in college because with no defensive three seconds, which they need to employ, it's a cheat code to have some of these seven footers that can just stand there in front of the damn rim. It's ridiculous. And that's why, oh, off the other.

kid at Auburn. Off him. Walker Kessler. Yes. He got bodied. He also got played off the floor. Miami, they played against a smart coach in Laranaga, and they just started running everything high, putting him in all kinds of picking rolls. Bruce

Pearl's like, shit, I can't do this no more. I got to get him out of there. It's like if you, yeah, like those are the teams that, but like the ones that can't make you or that force you to not just be able to stand right in front of the basket.

Calhoun was great at this at Yukon for years. He would just find the tallest frigging duty he could and then just filter everything to him. They were just stand in front of the basket and just swat things. You know, he did it for years. The beat, Hilton Armstrong, Amata Brima, tons of them.

Guys, just find the tallest guy you can. Hell, that was it the Zion? I think it was the Zion team. damn near lost to Taco Fall Remember that The Johnny Dawkins UCF team I mean Taco Fall It provided the right opportunity

He'd be one of the best bigs In all of the NBA right now I want That's my type Who do you think would win Between Taco and Bobon? Oh Bobon Bobon

Really? Yeah. Much better jumper. I would pay to watch that on paper. Yeah, I would too. A one-on-one between Bobon and Taco Fall? Yes. I'd pick Boban.

I put my money on him because Boban can step out and hit a jumper, Taco Camp. That's why. But can Boban create off the bounce against, I mean, that would just be sensational to watch. Amazing. Heavyweight one-on-one. Yes. It might take three hours. We could have different divisions.

But I'd watch it. Different divisions based on. player size or weight. This is a thing. Free idea. One-on-one. Different. Maybe next year,

an all-star weekend. One-on-one divisions. How about that? Like, you know, you got, you know, welter weights, guys that are like between 200,

200, 200 pounds, 220 pounds. And you find guys that aren't, like, find guys that aren't making a fortune. Yes. And then you offer them 500 grand. Exactly.

Whoever wins the tournament in each division. Yep. And then, and then, like, you break free for the finals, out of the divisions. You get a guard against Bobon

and the heavyweight division. That would be so sick. Like Carson Edwards. Yeah, that would be amazing. Yeah. Sign me up. Adam Silver. Are you listening?

Yeah. Come on. We got to get some new fresh ideas. That'd be really cool. We got it for you, Adam. Dude, like you mentioned I never thought about this until you mentioned

Bobon versus Taco, which would be amazing to watch. Paper. Why don't just put everybody in? Everybody who wants to be in it can be in it. and they get a bag at the end if they went at all. That'd be so sick. It would be great.

I'd watch it for sure. No doubt about it. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, shit, I went on Netflix yesterday. The number one show on there was, is it cake? And they just like cut shit open and they decided. Is it a bowling ball or is it a cake?

Is that really the number one show on Netflix? It was. It's the number one show. Is it cake? Seriously. That's the number one. one show and like would I rather watch that or Bobom play Taco Fall? Come on, man.

Was you, how about, how about, how about Pete Davidson against Kanye West in the boxing ring? Yeah, I watched that. Yeah, I'd watch that.

Who, who do you think would win? Who would you pick? Kanye, Chicago. Chicago. You know, Kanye has Chicago in his heart and in his fist.

But Pete Davidson has longer arms. He's taller. Yeah, but he's a kind of is much more angry guys. Yeah. A hot tempered. Kanye also has this, you stole my family anger.

That's probably a different, that's a different level of anger. Liam Mason, Liam Neeson showed us. I mean? Many times. Frankly, every movie he's made for the last year.

How many, how many takens are there? Yeah, I know. Five? Yeah. How many, I'm serious. How many are there?

I don't know. The guy keeps getting shit taken from him. Sometimes family numbers. It's terrible. What if they, hey, what would have taken six is somebody stealing a cell phone? Take it. Oh, there's three take. And he didn't have find my phone on it.

Yeah. Go look at it. That number one show is, is it cake? Do you know how frigging high you have to be to enjoy that? I understand. Kevin O'Cannabis may love that. Oh, my God. You've got to be really rocking your volcano.

Oh, man. Oh, it's not cake. Wow. Wow. You're going to be hitting your volcano hard if you're watching as a cake on Netflix. That must mean a lot of people are doing that. I know. Speaks to the marijuana issue we have in America.

And is it cake is number one? You know everybody's smoking. Everybody just became a stoner during the pandemic. Nothing else to do. All right. Kevin, have a great weekend. I can't believe that's the number one show on Netflix. Is it cake?

thought that was just a fun internet meme. Told you. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Skilled cake artists create mouthwater replicas of handbags, sewing machines, and more. And a mind-bending baking contest. It's not mind-bending.

There's nothing mind-bending about it. It's a mind-bending. I watched the trailer and I was like, this, I mean, do you know how under the influence you have to have to be to watch this? This is ridiculous. Oh, they have the SNL guy, Mikey, what's his last name, hosting it too? Mikey Day.

Is that Mikey Day? I think, like that. Mikey Day. How do you think Michael Malone reacts if we call him Mikey Malone, you know? I mean, is that worse than Mike? Is Mikey worse than Mike? 100%.

I think so, too. Yes. It's like Michael is clearly the preference, and I will continue to go on that. Very informal. Yeah. Mikey is like something your mother calls. probably. And that's

about it. Not Mikey Day though. Everybody calls Mikey Day Mikey Day. He wants to be called Mikey. I wouldn't have even been able. I didn't even know his name. I would have called, I would have called him that dude from SNL. Do you watch SNL at all? I haven't watched the season for some reasons.

I've just, I've just been, like when I write from Mondays, like I can't watch SNL on Saturday nights, which I'm, you know, it's fine. But, you know, like, when I'm not writing from Mondays, then I watch SNL on Saturday. She's a goofy show. I'll see some clips

every once in a while. Shut your brain off a little while. Kind of like watching is it cake. Not like that at all. Except from Mikey Day. Have a great weekend. Thank you to our executive producer,

Jesse Lopez, as always. And I will talk to you on Tuesday. I can't wait. Have a good one, everybody. Sorry, it's a business fans, by the way.