The Mismatch - Securing Trade Intel With Jake Fischer | The Void

Episode Date: February 9, 2022

Welcome to ‘The Void,’ where Kevin O’Connor brings you deep inside the NBA with the people who know it best. Bleacher Report’s Jake Fischer joins KOC to go over all the latest information with the trade deadline just hours away. They discuss the likelihood of the James Harden–for–Ben Simmons blockbuster (02:10). Jerami Grant is still a Piston, as no team is matching the asking price, so Jake tells us what kind of role Grant wants and why remaining in Detroit isn’t so bad (15:43). The Rockets might also have to reconsider the current asking price for Eric Gordon (22:03). After the blowout loss to the Bucks, is it time for the Lakers to move on from Russell Westbrook (24:56)? Lastly, they discuss the potential players who could be acquired in the buyout market (35:44).  Host: Kevin O'Connor Guest: Jake Fischer Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ring or Gambling Show is here to help you place your bets on the biggest sports around the world. Join NFL analysts Warren Sharp on Mondays and Fridays with guests Chris Vernon, Ben Solac, and Joe House to guide you through the NFL betting landscape. Each week, they'll cover everything from spreads, game totals, and parlays to player props, futures, post-game reactions, and more. Check out the Ring Your Gambling Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, welcome to The Void. It's Wednesday. We are one day from the NBA trade deadline. and to talk about what could happen or should happen. We're bringing on Jake Fisher, NBA reporter from Bleacher Report. Jake, how are you doing today, man?

I'm doing well, man. How are you? I mean, I haven't seen you on Zoom. I haven't seen your face in like a long, long time. Good to see you, man. Yeah, well, we crossed past, like, very briefly at Summer League last year. But before that, I mean, this was like even years before the pandemic started that thing that we last saw each other in person.

It's been a long time. I think we got dinner, like, very early into your tenure at the Ringer. I remember in New York. Where do we go? Where'd we go for dinner? Somewhere in Fidae. I live down. I don't remember.

Yeah. Oh, do we get sushi? But my memory is bush, man. When it comes to certain things, like it's just, it's like it didn't happen. Yeah. Well, all that being said. It's like I could be there. It's weird.

I mean, I wonder how we'll look back at this whole week here with all the ups and downs with James Hardin and Ben Simmons. Like, even this morning, Wednesday morning. So I wake up. I'm on the West Coast here. And I see a report. Horton's Brian Windhorst says Hardin is screaming in every way

possible that he wants out of Brooklyn. He says Nets and Sixers are in the deal zone. The deal zone, which is the term that I really love and I'm going to adopt. And then he says, I know there's people saying things on the record trying to act like that's not happening, but it is absolutely happening. There's definite motivation for both sides to make this fall

into place. And he said yesterday on Tuesday, the Sixers were having trade talks with other teams about other pieces that could be part of a bigger deal, including Tobias Harris. But hours later, ESPN's Adrian Morgianowski said there's no negotiation between the Sixers and the Nets. And he did acknowledge, though, that things are fluid between those two teams. What are you hearing, Jake?

Because this is totally different from what we're getting from ESPN. Yeah. You know, my writing as a Monday morning, and I haven't been as in contact since that story came out, but what I have heard from both Brooklyn side and Philly's side since that Monday story came out, and the Monday story was more aligned with Adrian Wojernowsky. who's reporting than Brian's. I want to be careful and not to say that someone is wrong and all that, but what I can say confidently from my end and from my information,

I have not heard that the Sixers and the Nets have had actual tangible negotiations here. I think, yes, I mean, my story, whatever it was, two Tuesdays ago now, about James talking and communicating and making. it very clear that he's got interest in playing elsewhere and specifically in Philadelphia, that's, I think, absolutely an accurate data point. Obviously, I wrote that. I stand behind that reporting and that seems to clearly have been, you know, perpetuated by all the instances that have occurred since. I mean, him being out with his hamstring tightness, Brooklyn people are definitely saying that it's legitimate and that there is tightness there that's similar to what plagued him in

the playoffs last year and they're resting him now to try to avoid that type of situation when the games really are on the line, they might not be able to have him available because when the games are on the line, that's what everyone in Brooklyn is there to do. They're there to win a championship. That's why the Nets sent Karris Lever and Jared Allen and all the picks to Houston to get James Hardin in the first place. And those guys are obviously reunited in a pretty strong Eastern Conference contender right now. The Nets are all in to win the title. And they obviously, of course, believe that best chance to do that is with James Hardin. From my understanding, Kevin Durant still feels that way as well.

I just think, you know, if it doesn't work out, if they're not the team lifting that Larry O'Brien trophy at the end of all this, it does seem more likely than not that James Hardin will become a free agent or he'll opt into his contract, but tell Brooklyn he'd like to be traded elsewhere like Chris Paul did back a couple years ago with the Clippers to have him join James Harden in Houston with Daryl Morey. But at this point in time, I think the quote-unquote negotiations that have been mentioned right now, like, yeah, if you call people from Philly and if you call people from Brooklyn, they'll tell you what they theoretically would want in that type of framework. But that doesn't mean those conversations are happening. Like, if I say that, you know, a Sixers source tells me they don't want to put Tyrese maxi into a deal, like that's an accurate thing. someone has told me that from Philadelphia 100%, but that deal hasn't been negotiated right now.

You know what I'm saying? That's what they're telling us. That doesn't mean that they're actually having that conversation with the Nets. Is it strange that they haven't, at least according to, you know, at least with what we're hearing here? I mean, is this the type of thing where they're just waiting until the final day? And until then, it's like really some public negotiations leaking. Like, what is the reason for waiting if that is indeed the case? This is not sourced, but my educated guess is I think Philly's trying to bait and go Brooklyn into calling them. That's what I think they want to happen because they feel like, I mean, every trade is a ultimate battle of leverage in negotiation, right? And I think, you know, go to the Karas Levert deal with Indiana from what I've been told, like that deal was pretty close the night before. And then Dallas and New York got involved at the end and that helped push things.

over the finish line. Same thing with C.J. McCollum and New Orleans. The night before that deal went through, there was all this talk that it was close. It was close. It was close. And then we'd heard the Knicks over the weekend. Mark Stein was first to report that on Monday.

And then Atlanta really popped up Monday afternoon, and I wrote them on Tuesday morning. And sure enough, after the Knicks and the Hawks got involved, Cedon McCollum goes to New Orleans. So I think in this certain situation, objectively speaking, Like, if I'm, I try to operate as the 31st front office, just trying to collect information and assessing what else is happening around the league, right? To me, and I think this has been echoed from people I've talked to, Brooklyn has all the leverage right now, right?

They've got James Hardin. He's playing. He is entrenched as a legitimate piece on their team right now. Ben Simmons is not. Like, the Sixers are, in this present moment, if they were to call Brooklyn, they would not be operating from a position of strength. But the second we get to June and July, if James Hardin does tell Brooklyn officials, but he has not told them yet that he wants out, then the leverage, of course, shifts completely. It's like an hourglass where the sand would be, or, you know, think about it, glass half empty,

glass half full. Like it literally will switch on a dime the second that happens, and leverage will go all the way to Philly. So I think that, that's my educated guess right now, I think Philly, to answer your question as to why they haven't called, I think they are trying to bait Brooklyn into calling them. And I think in the process, you know, that is obviously creating more and more dysfunction, which would increase the likelihood of James wanting to go elsewhere if they don't win the title this year. And they're also already setting the stage of their negotiations for June now. And that's not necessarily uncommon around the league.

I mean, even the Jeremy Grant conversation, which we'll get into later, you know, that could be a situation where he gets held out of a, trade talk ultimately in Thursday, but that gets picked back up around the draft. There's a lot of gamesmanship that happens now and even legitimate, you know, salary moves that get made with a whole eye towards free agency, not just necessarily on these next couple of months here of the regular season. I think you nailed up there with, I mean, like you said, educated guests. I mean, we don't know for certain here, but ultimately for Philadelphia, Darryorne, if I've been told over the years, not just recently, like he notoriously sometimes in trade negotiations will

wait till the last minute or he will like at the last minute ask for much more in deals and that's not always the case but i think with him we're seeing a similar type of game plan here and you mentioned right now the nets have all the leverage which you're right about but that i think that could also shift if hardin indicates yeah i'm probably going to leave or i will leave like if that were to happen before the deadline he just outright says he's going to go that would also flip the leverage now towards Philly or at the least it would put them on an even playing ground because they would be in similar positions with the Philadelphia 76ers having a guy who isn't playing and doesn't want to be there

and the Nets having a guy who is playing kind of not playing the hardest and also doesn't want to be there. That could shift things too, right? For sure. And, you know, the Sacramento game that I think I saw you write about him putting up, what was it, six points and on four shot attempts or something and the hamstring tightness. And, you know, after my report came out that Tuesday, they played the Lakers that night. And I didn't even realize that that was going to become what it became

because I didn't know, truthfully, I had my head down. I didn't realize that the Lakers were playing the Nets that night on TNT and it was going to become this massive story that it became. But even after that game, you know, when local reporters asked him about my reporting, he didn't, like, emphatically shut it down. You know, and I think that's just reflective of where he's at. I don't think he's hugging and kissing everyone in Brooklyn saying, I love it here.

I want to stay. I think he's telling them like, you know, I'm committed. I want to be here. I want to win a championship. I don't think it's really, I think he's done enough to showcase that his wandering eye is real, but I don't think this is anything more than that. I think even, you know, we've been talking for however long we've been talking now. Like, I think we probably talked about it too much in regards to the actual likelihood of a deal coming together here on Thursday.

One last thought on it though, Jake. One last one here. Do we have any indication of how far Philly is actually willing to go in terms of players that they would give now? Because there's all the talk about Seth Curry being in there, Brooklyn wanting Seth Curry. I've heard Philly wants to give Danny Green, not Matisse Thibel. They want to give Korkma's, not Curry. For Brooklyn, is there any indication here of what Philly would be willing to give at the most now versus waiting until the summer in Baner? thinking that Brooklyn does flame out, doesn't win the finals,

Harden, continues to want to go to Philadelphia. Well, it's going to ultimately come down to the mechanism, I think, that Philly tries to acquire him through. So that CP3 opt-in trade is a very popular framework that gets talked about. And then I wrote about it on Monday in that story. I know Brian's been mentioning it in his conversations as well, but the Thunder kind of boogeyman of being able to trade Tobias Harris and a couple of picks to offload him.

be able to sign James Harden outright, and that would be a dramatic situation where then all of a sudden Philly can move Ben Simmons for anything, because they've gotten the piece that they wanted to trade James Hardin, or to trade him for like a James Hardin or a Bradley Beal. So that's kind of, I think, more important than what these teams would want because that would set this, that would, again, the leverage aspect of it all is very important. So if it's the opt-in trade, then the Nets would seem to have, you know, a little bit more leverage, right, than if they're just signing James outright and for agency. So we might not even have these trade conversations come June or July if that's where we're at. But no, I think ultimately the only really things I've heard so far are just that I find rooted in fact and accurate is that just the Sixers. I've shown pretty little interest in giving us. up Tyrese Max here and Matisse Taible and any Ben Simmons opportunity right now, I think they would have

for someone like Dame this summer. I think if Dane became available this summer when that whole situation was unfolding, I think they would have put Tyrese Max here and Matisse Taible on the board then. But where we're at now with Maxie, honestly looking like a future All-Star at this point, right? He seems to have that type of ceiling. I just, I don't think they would, I don't think any front office would be willing to put him into a deal. But then again, you know, we just saw Tyries Halliburton get moved to the Pacers. So who's to say how many young guards are truly untouchable in the league right now outside of the job moranths of the world? We did get a minor-ish trade while we were just talking there. The Adrian Orginowski reported the Jazz are getting Portland's Nikiel, Alexander Walker,

and Wancho Hernan Gomez from the Spurs and a three-way deal. Spurs are getting Tomas Adiranski and a second round pick. Blazers get Joe Ingalls, who obviously is out for the season with a torn ACL, Elijah Hughes and a second round pick. Any thoughts on this deal right here? The logic behind Utah doing this, they were, of course, reportedly interested in Eric Gordon, now they get Alexander Walker and then Hernang Gomez. If they're only giving up two second round picks,

I think that's a pretty strong value gamble on a former almost lottery pick. He was the number 17 pick, I believe, in the 2019 draft. And he's been a bit flawed in New Orleans shot selection, I think, has been something that's left a lot of Pelican staffers to be desired, but still pretty young, still pretty talented, to only get him for two seconds when the jazz, I think one of their biggest issues on this trade market, not just for acquiring better, veteran talent now, but also it's an issue for their overall foundation. They haven't had,

they don't have a young piece like Nikila Alexander Walker on their team to go put on a table to go get Jeremy Grant or someone like that. So that would be, that's pretty interesting that they're able to just to get him for two seconds and still have their first round pick and Joe Ingalls's contract to go out and potentially get an Eric Gordon or an additional. They gave up Ingalls in that one. Oh, they did give up Ingalls. Yeah. Okay, well, they would still have a first round pick and something to go get somebody if they're

able to do that. But keeping that first is interesting. Like, I didn't think they were going to be able to get off Ingalls as deal and get someone with two seconds. So for a team that is strapped of young pieces and keeping their first round pick, I like that for you. What about you? I like it.

I think for them, it gives them a young piece. Hernon Gomez is not bad at all. They could have used another forward as well. Ultimately, though, this isn't enough of a change for what they need. This team, as I've been talking about for months now, needs more perimeter defenders. They need to give Rudy Gober some help. So he's just not all on him.

And you mentioned Jeremy Grant in there, Jake. For Utah, does a deal like this help them close that gap? And what does it actually take for Jeremy Grant. What I've been told is that the Pistons want two second round picks for him. Sorry, two first-front picks for him. I was about to say, woo-wee. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So sending out two seconds, you know, wouldn't have been enough in this, you know, package here. But they also, you know, I think they prefer to get a first and a young impact player like Patrick Williams from Chicago. I think that's kind of been the high bar that they've set.

And Chicago hasn't given any inclination. They're willing to do that. but when that's been a framework that's been out there and it's something that the Pistons clearly have interest in, like they're kind of setting that type of benchmark, it seems like, for a type of return to get Jeremy. And it makes sense. I was kind of comparing him to the Aaron Gordon. Does it two first round picks for Jeremy Grant? Well, yeah.

I mean, look at Aaron Gordon last year. He was the Aaron Gordon. I've been saying Jeremy Grant is the Aaron Gordon in this deadline, and Gordon basically got back a future first, and RJ Han. Hampton, who was just the first time in that draft before. Yeah. So it's basically kind of the going rate now for that type of player. It might sound reductive and simple and cliche to say that these deals set the barometer and kind of the market value, but I mean, it's real. I mean, the Pacers were literally telling teams, I'm sure you heard this too, Kevin, before they moved to

Monisabonis, they were saying we want a Nick Vutrovich type package back. I mean, who's to say exactly how those packages compare. I mean, getting Tyrese Halliburton is obviously a huge win for that Pacer's front office, but that's real. Like, the way deals happen, that last trade deadline or this summer, like, they impact the value and the overall kind of price on players, and everything is kind of cyclical here. I believe you were the first to report Portland's interests in Jeremy Grant, and I had heard, you know, after you reported that, like maybe Josh Hart, Eric Bledsoe that they're trying to flip in a situation like that. And now with this deal that just happened, they had Ingalls,

another piece that could potentially be flipped as well. Are there any teams in addition to Portland that are actually a threat for Jeremy Grant? I'd be curious about Dallas. They keep coming up as a team that is, I mean, they've been active in conversations about Tim Hardaway Jr.'s contract now that he's kind of become one of those, you know, Ricky Rubio, Joe Ingalls,

injured guy on a deal, although his deal is long-term money. So I think that's also a situation here where it's just been around the league, you know, Duncan Robinson, Davos Burthons, paying shooters and specifically shooters, guys who don't really have too much other skill set

outside of shooting the ball has been, there's kind of been a referendum on those contracts. I feel like this trade deadline. So, you know, the pistons have, have been linked to have interest in Jalen Brunson in this upcoming off season. So could they get him now in the fact that the Knicks are obviously circling Brunson with all his CAA and Tom Tippettel and Leon Rose connections?

So is there a deal to get done there? Potentially, that would be something I'd keep an eye on. But outside of those two teams right now, the Lakers, the Bulls, those are teams that are on the opposite end of the spectrum. The Lakers haven't had enough to get Jeremy Grant and the Bulls just haven't been willing to put Patrick Williams on the table. same as in Minnesota. I just don't know if they have enough to go get Jeremy

in terms of like Malik Beasley and McDaniels in a first round pick. I don't really know if that gets the Pistons juices flowing and being that Jeremy is someone who chose them over the Nuggets and free agency a year and a half ago and they need to eventually start to sign players like him to try to move this thing towards a playoff conversation. And I think that's a clear goal of the Pistons next year.

I think they do want to try to compete for a postseason birth in 2023. So keeping Jeremy Grant would obviously be a big help in that regard. I mean, it'll be very interesting with Grant because I think, you know, what we saw earlier in the season is just not going to fly in terms of the way you hope to use Kate Cunningham as a heavy usage,

playmaking guard moving forward. And, you know, the Pistons fans who want to move off Grant, they just, they want to get rid of the ball stopping. And I think I understand that. I also understand, like, the perspective of wanting to maximize what

you're going to get in return because he's a good player despite the fact he's not what he was early last season when he's putting up gigantic numbers elite efficiency and all that he's slipped a little bit but his ideal role is playing next to a star and like if kate becomes a star or if he were to get traded to play with dame or get traded to you know wherever it might be that's the ideal role something in the middle of what he was doing in denver and what he's been doing in detroit like that's the middle ground now for Jeremy Grant. And if that's your third or fourth best player, like that's an amazing third or fourth best player

to have on your team if you're actually contending. For sure. I just think, you know, Jeremy's been pretty clear that he wants to be a one B, you know, second option type guy. Like, I think he... Even now? Even now?

Yes. I think he's very open to the idea of being like a Batman, sorry, Robin to Dame's Batman or playing next to Luca, that type of situation. he would love to be a number two next to one of those guys. But, you know, even in that situation like Memphis where, I mean, that would seem to make so much sense, right? I'm kind of a missing fifth man for their closing lineup. I don't think he wants to be behind Jha and Jaron Jackson and Desmond Bain in terms of like three untouchable young core pieces of that group that he's coming in

to kind of be like the David West of those Paul George Pacers back in the day. I don't think he wants to be that piece. I think he wants to be that piece. I think he wants to be. I think he wants to be a piece that a team is thinking he's coming in and being a major, major difference maker, not just like that last X factor, if he will. That's a key distinction. He wants to be on the marquee. So the circumstances are different, but with Jeremy Grant, there might not be, despite his talent, a lot of teams that want him for the reasons we're talking about.

I'm not finding a lot of teams for Eric Gordon. We heard about the calves, well, they got Karas Levert. We heard about the Pelicans. Well, they got C.J. McCollum. We've heard about the jazz, and I don't know if this deal today has anything to do with that, but getting Alexander Walker a wing, Herno Gomez a forward. Who does that leave here in terms of interest? It was reported the Suns at one point had an interest.

Are there any other teams that we know about that would want Eric Gordon? The Rockets have been steadfast in their first-round pick asking price for him. So all those teams you mentioned were the teams that really were willing to put that pick on the table, right? the calves, the pelicans, and I don't know if the Sons are willing to do that. I mean, they clearly have interest in moving Dario Sarich's contract to go and get something else. They have their picks available. They have, you know, future assets they can trade.

But I haven't heard of any constant framework that actually has the Sons sending out a first round pick to get better right now. I don't think they feel like they probably need to. I mean, they are far and away have been kind of the, the least. league's best team dating back to last season, right? They've kind of been wire to wire from the moment they traded Chris Paul to right now. They've been as top of dog as anybody. I don't know if trading a first round pick for Eric Gordon is really the best value for them to do that. I am skeptical the Rockets are going to get that price for him. I was believing them about a week and a half ago

when all these teams were seeming to be out there wanting to go pay for wing help and clearly did pay. But now that all these teams are off the board, I don't know if that's going to be a likely scenario for the rocket. They might have to lower their price. The one team I am kind of obsessed with as a destination for Eric Gordon is the Lakers, whether it's like some crazy Wall and West, Wall and Gordon for Westbrook, THT and the 2027 first from the Lakers, or whether it's like part of some iteration in like a four-way, five-way deal, whatever it might be. I just feel like it makes too much sense for a team like the Lakers to target Eric Gordon. You think about their closing lineups.

They've been benching Russell Westbrook on some occasions, including on Tuesday night. After the game, he comes out and says, I've earned the ability to close games, this and that. Like, no, some nights, yes, but a lot of nights, no. Eric Gordon provides exactly what the Lakers need, a guy who can shoot threes, who can attack closeouts, who can make the right pass, who plays hard on defense, and in certain moments, like Eric Gordon has been a lockdown defender at times this season. Like, he is like, if you're talking about trying out, say, hey, contending teams, trade for me, trade for me. He's done the job.

So, I mean, I'm obsessed with that idea and I haven't heard a peep in terms of real interests, you know, from a part of the Lakers. And I've also heard the opposite, but they don't want to give up their 2027 first. But for them, like, how can you waste a season of LeBron, James and Anthony Davis. You can't let the season go to waste. I just think they have to do something. If Russ isn't going to change, which clearly he never will. He can, but he never will. Then the Lakers have to make to change themselves. Is there any idea of what the Lakers are going to be doing here? I think the only Lakers moves can be on the margins. And Josh Richardson name has popped up a lot the last couple of days, right? Oh, boy. Like, I think that's the level of

player that they're looking at right now. That's tough. It is. I mean, Kemp, Beesmore, certainly available. I think they're clearly looking to see if they can swap D'Andre or Dwight for somebody that makes more sense of their roster. But this is the perils of building around superstars. The way they can win you the title one year, but if an injury arises, if a fit doesn't work out the way it intended, when you stack your roster with three players who make over $30 million, it just dramatically decreases your flexion. ability to add to that core, to reshuffle that core, and to supplement the actual real superstars on your team. It's just, I mean, we're seeing it in Milwaukee right now. Obviously,

it worked out that won the title last year. Not saying they're struggling right now, but in terms of, like, they need a big man. They need front court help with, you know, Brooke Lopez not being a guaranteed factor into the, into the season at all right now. And the bucks are just limited in opportunities to get better. We saw them last year make a pretty brilliant, trade, I think, to get PJ Tucker with just changing those pick protections and stuff like that. Like now they're in the situation of talking about Dante DiVincenzo, you know, going out the door with just someone that a couple weeks ago, you know, his people, the bucks were definitely talking about wanting to come to a contract agreement in this offseason. And now it seems like

all sides are kind of motivated to get a deal done because of the roster crunch and how expensive those multi, you know, those three all-star teams get. So the Lakers are in a similar boat and they're not on the level of the bucks right now, like LeBron said in his press conference last night. So they are certainly hamstrung, and I am fascinated to see how they're going to try to dig out of this hole. You mentioned the LeBron's press conference. Russ was asked about getting booed, and he got into an answer about how he's able to use his platform to help people around the world.

And then a reporter followed up saying, well, I'm talking about the basketball side. And he goes, then he goes into a long answer about his family and help. basketball isn't everything in life. I just feel like he's avoiding the issue at hand here. Like, it's kind of sad to watch. It really is sad to watch. Like, I've never been the biggest Russ fan, but, like, he's authored some great, outstanding, memorable moments throughout his career when he was in OKC, and he wasn't bad, like, as recently as Houston. It's, I just think they have to do something dramatic. Wall and Gordon, to me, are the targets. It's very different, but it's giving me shade.

of the end of Alan Iverson's career because Russ won an MVP. He was never considered really remotely a top 5, 10 player in the league, though, in terms of like two-way overall talent. But he was the league's best show

for a long time, very similar to AI. Iverson's decline at the end with the whole Memphis and Detroit stuff was way more unfortunate, and there was obviously a lot more off-court stuff in the fold. But the way people talk in the NBA about Russell Westbrook as just being this damaged goods. You know,

like I've pitched, I've pitched to Nix people, you know, why not do the Evan Forornier for Julius Randall for Russ stuff? And you get off your long term salary and clear your books for 20, 23 for agency. And like everyone I've talked to you with the Knicks that had zero interest and even entertaining the idea of doing that.

Good idea. Good idea. I do that if I'm the Nix in my opinion. I would not want to. But even just for like, even just for like a 12 months. month gamut of, you know, getting him now to clear those salary for that big free agency period in 23.

And maybe he has like a fun electric garden year that gets some bogus all-star starting nod. Like Andrew Wiggins and Golden State, like I could see that being something at least, like I live in New York. I could see that being something. All these New York Knicks fans would be at least entertained by and whatever. I mean, this is a current, you know, cluster, you know, whatever with what the Knicks have right now. But even the Knicks where they're at,

they don't want to touch Russell Westbrook from what I've heard. So it is sad to see how this dynamic has unfolded. I mean, I don't know Russell Westbrook personally. The one time him and I talk on the phone for a big Kendrick Perkins story, I wrote back at SI, he was very nice to me. So at least he has that ability in him,

and it's like sad that this is where things are at. So I was texting with one of my friends in the league earlier today because we were talking about there was all these rumblings. Windhorst alluded to it this morning. But there's a lot of talk yesterday about like four way, five way iterations between the Sixers and the Nets, them trying to loop in OKC as we talked about earlier to move off Tobias Harris. And he brought up, you know, this is not anything source. It was just an idea. But I thought it was a smart idea. So I want to pass it along.

He said, well, why not like a four way or five way? involving all of these teams, Nets, Sixers, Lakers, Thunder, maybe even the Rockets. And the Thunder can land Russell Westbrook in this case, and the Lakers can get Tobias Harris.

And maybe like a Derek favors in this deal, Eric Gordon and Ben Simmons land with the Nets, Hardin lands with the Sixers. And I'm like, whoa, that actually makes some sense on paper. It kind of does, doesn't it? Right?

Does that make a little sense, Jake? It makes sense. It makes sense. It does. I'll give you that. I'll give you that. That's a smart idea. It's a smart idea.

It is a smart idea. It is a smart idea. I mean, to pull something like that off here in the next 26 hours would be pretty impressive. That would take a lot of cap gymnastics and a lot of egos put aside. What if they've been talking about it for three weeks already? And they're just very, very quiet about it, Jake. Is that possible?

I, it'd be hard to keep, in today's day and age, it'd be hard to keep a, five-team blockbuster underwraps. I mean, the Halliburton Pacea's deal, it's already been reported left. No one in the league saw that coming. I mean, the Kings were definitely calling around and seeing what Deeran Fox's

value was, and then that deal took, I mean, a lot of people by surprise. Like, that happened between two small small market franchises that are kind of run pretty directly from the ownership and the top people. That type of deal can happen in silence. five-team blockbuster with James Harden and Ben Simmons and the Lakers and that that would be

pretty difficult to happen without you know I'm trying to come up with a tree falling in a forest metaphor off the top of my head but it's just yeah I know it would it would definitely be loud it would be loud if something like that were to happen but I think it's a great idea so I just want to toss it out there into the podcast universe a couple quick things before we go Jake With the Boston Celtics, I keep hearing. They're willing to do whatever it takes to get under the luxury tax. What are we hearing about Boston? I think their top goal would be to find a third guy for Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum.

But I just don't think that guy is out there right now, just like that guy's not out there for affiliate to trade Ben Simmons for. So in that sense, like their top goal is definitely to get under the tax for sure, from my understanding. There has been a lot of Dennis Shroder conversations. They've, I mean, Brad Stevens, I think, from everything I've, heard is kind of operating with a very small nucleus, just like I was mentioning what the Pacers and Kings think

could happen in silence when it's just a couple of people involved. I think he is on the phone. I think it is Brad, like kind of doing this as almost like a solo effort, if you will. He obviously has staffers that are being, you know, supportive, but it sounds like they have really been proactive in pitching Josh Richardson and pitching Dennis Schroeder and pitching Marcus Smart and seeing, you know,

I have reported they talked to Atlanta about Kevin Herder and Cam Reddish before Reddish went to the Knicks. I think they have tried to see if they can turn Marcus into two pieces that can help them, like Malik Beasley and then something in Minnesota, for example. So they've got a number of options on the table, but I do agree that no matter what happens, I would expect them to be under the tax line as of tomorrow at 301 p.m. The other team I wanted to ask you about is Atlanta. They've been involved in a lot of different discussions. You mentioned C.J. McCollum earlier, they are looking for another guard. I heard Gorin Dragich could be like one guy, maybe to target for Atlanta. Is there anybody else that you think the Hawks could be in on ahead of the deadline?

I think they've been looking to upgrade. I mean, Dilan Wright is a good pro, but I think they're looking to upgrade on that, on him, and that backup Trey Young position and hoping they could find someone who could also, play next to Tray Young in certain scenarios. You know, how viable a CJ, Tray Young backcourt would have been defensively would have been interesting. But, I mean, they were definitely involved there. I think the Drogic framework is really possible.

The Droghaw-Nari for Droghugic swap would seem to make a lot of sense for both sides. And there's that connection between Maasai and Gallow from their Denver days. I mean, the rappers seem to be more set on trying to find a big man. But, I mean, the Gallo-Draject swap would seem to alleviate the Hawks issues of still trying to trim down their logjam at the wing. I mean, even if they trade Gallo, right, they'd still have DeAndre Hunter and Kevin Herder and Bogdanovich to plug up a lot of big minutes there. You can never have too many two-way wings in this league right now. But at a certain point, like also the rotation gets crunched. So changing one of those guys for a backup guard like Drogich, I think, would be.

be pretty interesting. It would also take Drogick probably off the buyout market, which is a piece that a lot of teams, especially the Mavericks, of course, are I'm sure the Lakers would love to get a piece of Drogic, too. If he gets moved to Atlanta. Right? Like, if he does hit the buyout market, he's going to Dallas, right? It seems like a given. It seems like a given, yeah. And he said that publicly, you know, that he wanted to go there. But if he goes to Atlanta, you know, then that takes a big buyout piece off the board. So that would be pretty interesting in that ripple effect as well. Are there any other buyout pieces to keep in mind here?

Paul Millsap, for sure. I don't think the Nets are going to find a candidate to trade for him. Thad Young could get dealt definitely, but if he's not, I mean, I know he wants a buyout. I heard Phoenix likes Thad Young. They're like that one team. That's one team to keep an eye on it. Yeah, Minnesota as well. I think the Jazz would be curious about him on the buyout market.

Tristan Thompson's names come up a bunch. Eric Bloodsoe, depending on where he ends up. I think he's still obviously a trade candidate to leave Portland. Gary Harris was an interesting name that's been mentioned to me by several people. He's played pretty well in Orlando. I would think that there'd be an opportunity for him to go back, but if he hits the buyout market, that could be obviously a significant piece to help. But then again, overall executives and agents remind me all the time that the buyout market It doesn't traditionally give teams a real championship changing piece, but these guys can certainly help in the right situation.

No doubt about it. And I think with this deadline, maybe we don't get fireworks. Maybe we don't get a big Hardin-Simmons deal. Maybe we don't get a Russell Westbrook blockbuster. We could. We could get all of it. We could get it all together in one big deal. But I think at the least we're going to get a lot of the movement where it is those pieces around the edges.

We're championship contenders, teams trying to get into the playoffs. are just trying to tweak what they are and maximize what they are. And I think we'll get some interesting deals in that sense. Do you like just lastly here, do you have any thoughts like or feelings of like how active tomorrow will actually be on deadline day? You know, the big pieces are falling, right? This Nikila Alexander Walker deal has kind of been the first of the, you know, the Jazz Want Wing Help, those types of marginal,

not to throw shade at Nikila Alexander Walker, but those types of deals, the Thad Youngs of the world, can someone actually go and get Terrence Ross from the magic? Not that that's hard to do, but will there be a deal made there? The Sixers looking for, you know, ball handling and rebounding help. The Bulls wanting a big. The Hornets wanting a big. The Rappers center market.

Like, can the Rockets even move Daniel Tice or something like that? That market is still completely untouched out, which makes sense. I mean, these teams are focusing on the big names for now. But there's still probably, you know, seven or eight of those types of deals that haven't been made yet that I think are assuredly going to. And, you know, those Boston salary-type moves and other teams trying to duck the tax, Indy potentially looking to move Ricky Rubio's contract, like those types of things still very much on the table. So there's a lot of room for activities still to be had. How much sleep you're going to get tonight? I'm going to try to go to

bed at 1 a.m. Eastern time. It's kind of been my bedtime this week. Yeah. Is that when things get quiet? No, I mean, remember the Tobias Harris trade went down at like, 2 a.m. that Wednesday before the deadline, whatever year that was. Keep your phone ring on. You keep it on at night during trade deadline week or month even? No. I mean, I'm... You value your sleep then. You need, yeah, you need your sleep. Listen, man, I'm a writer, right? I don't get paid to tweet. And unfortunately, the way the information economy has developed over the years, not a lot of opportunity to put out a tweet that says what's happening, right? There's a way to collect information and,

forecast what is likely going to happen based off of those conversations. That's what I do. So the stories are out. We can talk about this stuff with you in the podcast and then like, I just go to bed, man. Like, it's not, it's not worth staying up until 3 a deal that might happen. And I'm probably not going to get a break first anyway. So I mean, you've done great work, Jake. I really enjoyed your work this past year. And I think, thank you, man. Like, kind of the lane you do have is interesting because, like, you report on a lot of the stuff that NBA people are talking about. and I think fans deserve to talk about that too. So I've enjoyed it,

and especially like you've been on top of the heart and stuff. I think you were the one of the first people to really have this story as a potential possibility before everybody took it super, super seriously like we do this week. I'm glad you get your sleep, though. Sleep is important. I heavily value my sleep too, man. I can't operate under six hours. I'm definitely not sleeping enough.

I mean, the 7 a.m. published time is typically, one that I don't wake up for, but Monday and Tuesday, we got it out there because, like, the CJ McCombie, I really thought was going to happen Tuesday morning. So I was like, we got to get this up at 7 a.m. before it happens. And it happened at like 10.30. So it's been, I'm very much looking forward to Friday and sleeping on Saturday. Do you drink coffee? I don't drink coffee. I don't drink coffee either. I'm not a caffeine guy. I grew up, you know, a lot of like AU tournaments on a Saturday morning, you know? My parents would have to stop at Duncan first thing. And I enjoy dabbling in substances, let's say, but I saw caffeine. Caffeine was an addiction that these people have to go spend

$7 at a time to get multiple times a day. That seems insane to me. So I do not drink coffee. I have not started yet. Maybe someday if I have kids, I'll have no choice. But until, I feel like I have no choice. I'm not going to drink caffeine. I offer a great drinking a ton of water. Thank you, Jake. I'm happy to meet somebody who also does drink coffee here. I actually, I remember this very, it was in Boston back when you and I were both living there. I got lunch with a Sixers coach after a shoot around one day and I was still in school. I was like, I think I was 20 years old. And we we waste a bet that by the time I was 25 that I'd be drinking coffee. And if he's listening, this guy knows who he is. You still owes me a steak dinner for not drinking coffee at this point in time.

I'm going to start making that bet with people. Yeah. Because I think I'll win it. I want more steak dinners. Jake, it was very great talking to you about deadline week. Deadline day in 24 hours isish. Depending on when you listen to this, I'm fired up. Are you excited, Jake? Excited? I'm excited for it to be over. I'm not going to lie. Well, thank you, man. I hope you have a great rest of recording this noontime, 24 hours from now, West Coast time is the deadline. Jake, I look forward to reading your stuff, man. Thanks, man. Take care.

You can find Jake Fisher's work on Twitter at Jake L. Fisher. He writes for Bleacher Report. He also published a book last year called Built to Lose, how the NBA's tanking era changed the league forever. Jake does great work. I'm looking forward to seeing what goes down these next 24 hours. One deal did happen as we were wrapping up the podcast. The Miami Heat acquired a 2026 second round pick from OKC for KZar.

Pala, big time deal here, man. Like, we get to record an emergency podcast coming right up. I'm just kidding. We will have more pods on the Ringer NBA show feet and possibly even the mismatch feat, depending on what goes down. I'll be on with Bill Simmons and a bunch of other Ringer staffers on Thursday, on deadline day. I'm fired up about that.

That'll be a good time. I'm hoping you enjoyed this show. I'm hoping you enjoy all the pods we have to come. Please do us a favor. Give us a five-star rating wherever you're listening to this podcast. And a big thank you. Jesse Lopez for producing it. And a big thank you to you for listening. I hope you enjoyed Trade Deadline Day. I'm fired up. I'm excited. Let's go, baby.