The Mismatch - Seven Lingering Questions Following the NBA Draft With Logan Murdock | The Void

Episode Date: June 24, 2022

Hey, it's Kevin! Thank you for listening to 'The Void'. Today The Ringer's Logan Murdock is joining the show to discuss some of our takeaways from the draft and then look ahead to the NBA offseason, which will be ramping up next week. For a full draft analysis, check out my grades in my Draft Guide (link below) or listen to Thursday's 'Bill Simmons Podcast'. Here are today's timestamps: (03:35) - Did the Knicks make all those trades just for Jalen Brunson? (08:15) - What are the Spurs up to? (13:35) - Deandre Ayton’s future (22:18) - The best spots for John Collins (25:47) - What to do with D’Angelo Russell (32:11) - Should the Bulls go all-in on Rudy Gobert? (38:07) - On Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving KOC's 2022 NBA Draft Grades: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/draft-grades/ Host: Kevin O'Connor Guest: Logan Murdock Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? This is Logan Murdoch, and I'm here with my co-host for the Real Ones podcast on the Ringer NBA show, The Incomparable, the realist, the man who invented the pregame Red Bull Snowcone. Raja Bell. Thank you, Logan. You're far too kind, sir. Did you know that the Ringer NBA show feed now has six podcasts a week?

Six. Every Sunday, Big Was has a different guest from the NBA world on weekends with Was. And you can find me and Rajah every Monday and Thursday on Real Ones where we cover all the most interesting NBA storylines. On Tuesdays, Jay Kyle Mann and Jonathan Charks discuss up-and-coming talent in college basketball and the NBA. And on Wednesdays, you can hear Justin Barrier, Rob Mahoney, and Big Was discuss any and everything going on in the world of hoops.

Man, and on Friday, Chris Ryan and Syrac so he asked the big questions on the answer. So head over to the Ringer NBA show's Spotify page and take a listen. There's so much to dive into. And while you're there, just go ahead and give us a follow too. Thank you for listening to The Void. Today I'm bringing on my friend and ringer co-worker Logan Murdoch to talk about the NBA draft and spin it forward. Looking at the rest of the offseason with some lingering questions that didn't pan out on draft night. If you want to hear some analysis of the draft itself with all 30 picks in the first round,

check out the Ringer NBA draft guide. I did draft grades in there. And also you can check out the Bill Simmons podcast. We had a four-parter with me, Ryan Rusillo, Chris Ryan, and Steve Serrudi, all going on with Bill for a lot of conversations. about the draft. Today, though, bringing on Logan Murdoch onto the void. What's going on, Logan? I'm ready to ball the void. I'm ready to go, man. Walked in. Thanks for having me on, I appreciate it, man. I've been on a, I've been on a Kid Cuddy kick ever since the last pod we did and I made that little playlist called Kid Cuddy Boyd. I've been listening to that so often.

I listen to it. You got some slaps on there, you know, I got to say this. I think you might actually be right about part three versus part one for solo dolo see it's just it's a great little book in to yeah to the series it's my favorite and I had a really didn't really it was hard to admit it but it's there it's it's my faith I think you're right I've I've really absorbed myself in those solo dolos a lot during the solo dolo period of the NBA draft season it's just true but very alone but soon, Summer League around the corner, NBA free agency. So today what we're going to do, Logan, is seven lingering questions following the NBA draft.

Let's start off tying this to the draft. We saw the Knicks make three trades in total. They dealt number 11, Kembo Walker, four second round picks, got three future first. They now have $16 million in cap space, and they can deal the Noel, Fournier, Rose, Reddish, or Burks contracts in order to open up. more cap space than it seems like all indications are mark stein reported it on his substack again this morning they're doing this to open cap space for jalen brunson that's bad news in some ways for the mavericks because if they lose brunson if he walks for nothing it means they're up against the luxury tax with few avenues to making improvements and then for the nix brunson's a good player

but all of that for jaylin brunson logan we saw the nicks do this on draft night what does this mean for the feature of New York and Dallas. If you think about it like that, this is just the Nixian type move where you drop a lot of cap space for something, one of that's the unknown, but if you do get Jalen Brunson, Jalen Brunson is the type of guy

that you get towards the end of your rebuild. He is a sweetener, right? He is one of those guys that, like, if he is your third or fourth best player, really good team, right? But I don't think he's a guy that you go through all these, these mental gymnastics in the front office to go and try to figure out how you're going to pay him.

Because I feel, you get the feeling that if you take Jeline Brunson off the Mavericks' hands, you're kind of doing him a favor, doing the Mavericks a favor because I don't know if the Mavericks want to pay him that much. I don't think you were more locked in on that than I would be. But just from the surface, it doesn't seem like that's a guy you want to pay long term and just to commit to right now. He's a really, really good player, played great alongside Luca. But is he the all-star guy that we've always wanted to compliment Luca?

I don't think he is. He's a really good role player for that team and can probably play, you know, outside of what we think he can play on some occasions, but I don't think he is the guy that you just pair with Luke. And I think that if the Knicks get, if the Knicks overpay for Jalen Brunson, they're giving the Mavericks an out not to pay them,

and they're actually doing the Mazz of favor. Interesting. That's the perspective you look at it as. Like for Dallas, that it could end up being a blessing in disguise. Yeah. Not to retain Brunson. Even like a, let's just say, four years, $88 million.

If you get him for the, if you get him for the right price, if the Mavericks got him for the right price, is that the right price? Yeah. If you can get him for, if you can get Jalen Brunson for the right price, then yeah. But you're not, I wouldn't overpay for a guy like Jalen Brunson. Not to say that he's not a great player. I saw him in the Western Conference Finals and, you know, you see him throughout the postseason. He played really well. But like, again, the goal is to get an all-star piece.

alongside Luca. That's the goal. That's always what it's been to get someone to pay alongside him. Is Jalen Brunson that Perino All-Star? As of right now, I don't think he is. So for Dallas, you said this could set up for a big off season. Let's say they have the ability to either sign and trade Brunson or they just outright lose them, regardless of how it happens. But what's kind of your vision for Dallas this summer? I think the biggest path, I think you just laid it out, is if they can get a sign and trade for Jalen Brunson gets some. get something in return for him, whether that's,

I don't know if that's necessarily with the Knicks, it might be tricky, right? Because I don't know how much. Evan Fournier, get fournier. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Like, but like if there's a sign and trade, if there's a sign and trade for Brunson and Kyrie, then you got something going, right? Then you have, then you have, um, then you can,

then you can build up some excitement. So that's the tricky part is that you have a guy in Jalen Brunson who already has, at least it seems that he already has a pathway to another team that he would want to go to and there's mutual interest. That's the tricky part that you want to get him. He wants to get to this certain destination. And how do you make that help? How does that help you out as a Mavericks organization?

I don't know if the Knicks have the assets to do so. So it's a really tricky thing. It's tricky. And also, there's the other thing. If you do pay for him, like, I don't know if you could pay. I don't know how much they would pay and I don't know if they would want to overpay. But say there's a chance that you do overpay. It's just a number.

And so, like, maybe you could try to deal Jalen Brunson in the next few years. I don't know how old he is, but he's a young guy. So you can do that. 26 next season. So if he signs a four-year contract, he'll be 30 for the next one. Okay. So I don't, I think I still go to say if the Knicks want to get them, I think they'd be doing them a favor. If they overpay for them, then I think that the Knicks are doing the Mams of favor.

It still will be a loss, though, for Dallas. I mean, at least in the short term. And I think you said it in there about even retaining Brunson for, you know, what might be an overpay. You still retain a quality player on a contract that could potentially be flipped. And that's sort of what the Knicks were hoping to do with some of the deals they signed. It's just that didn't work last year. And now they're scrambling to try to dump those. I'm just not sure what the Knicks are doing, man.

I don't, I get the infatuation with Brunson because he's a really good player. But that's not a guy that you want to, he's not a guy you want to build around. He's a piece that's a building block for sure. But he doesn't elicit just this big excitement for a fan base like New York. All right. Second question here is about the Spurs. I thought they had a really good draft night. They got Sohan with the ninth pick.

Branham, three-level scoring guard at number 20. And then Blake Wesley at number 25, Ross scorer, upside play. With two back court players on Brannum and Wesley, I think that means Lonnie Walker, who's a restricted free agent could go. and if he does walk, San Antonio could open up up the $37 million in cap space, which means maybe they make a big offer sheet to a DeAndre Aiton or a Miles Bridges, or maybe they're a team that absorbs Tobias Harris in a trade to alleviate some of the salary that Philly's trying to dump and get some picks out of it.

San Antonio is an interesting position here. They're trying to win with Popovich, trying to make the playoffs, but they have a really young team. Logan, what direction do you think the Spurs should be going? here considering what we've seen on draft night and the amount of cap space they have entering free agency. Well, it's funny because every time, you know, I see the

spurs and blown away, we're like, you know, how they run their sets, how they how much overall point of just how much fight that they have, right? They don't play to what their perceived talent level is. They play harder. That's a, that's a benchmark of what Pop is

about. The interesting thing, though, is we just don't know how long Pop is going to, to like steer this ship. And that's the biggest wild card. And that's the hardest thing that they have to, that the spurs have to deal with, particularly in the post-Dunkin, post-Kawai era where they're trying to find stars. Now, like, if they get it Tobias Harris or an Aden, is that franchise changing? Not necessarily. But it's a, I'm curious to see what their rebuild is with the pop conundrum on the table. But also the DeJante Murray report

from earlier in the week by Jake Fisher that they were having trade talks involving him. With Murray, it's interesting. I mean, on Bill Simmons pod this week, he was kind of like shocked, why would you trade DeJante Murray? And I get it. You know, he's 25 years old, one of the best defensive guards on all the basketball. Average 9 assists last season.

He doesn't turn the ball over. He's just, he's such a good player. Jonti Murray is such a good player. Second and most improved voting. Exactly. Like, he's a really good player, maybe even a great player. But he also, only has two years left on his deal. And I think for San Antonio, everything you just said about the position that they're in,

where they are, some of the uncertainty in their future, I can understand the logic for that front office to say, hey, maybe we should explore things for this clutch client that is, you know, one year away from hitting for agency in 2024. So I get it in that sense, getting a year ahead of it rather than possibly waiting until next summer when on an expiring deal. oftentimes a player's value you can drop at that point. And again, they did just draft Wesley and Brennan.

Neither of those guys are points like Murray is, but they can handle. They can handle the ball. So I just, I am very curious about that aspect about it as well. Because they've also had talks for John Collins. They've been into active and trade conversation. So there's a lot of ways they could go. Where do you, so

with the, with the pop thing and all, everything that you said was, is right on. Like they are, they do develop players. They, they do they have a great organization. We all know that. But how do they, how do they continue to do this when pop is on a year to year in terms of continuity? Now, there were rumors that Quinn Snyder could, you know, I think Mark Stein reported that, that Quinn Snyder could be in the running just take to take the Patom, Pop. But like, how do you, how do you build, continue to build an organization when your coach just isn't, on a year to year basis? You don't know if he's going to be there. How did they build that? I think with the Spurs, looking at the roster, they're building young, regardless of Pop and the desire to get into the postseason. Like, this is a young team. Kelton Johnson just finished his third year.

Devin Vassell finished his second. Trey Jones getting minutes for them. Primo, drafting one of the youngest players in the draft last year, came as a shocker to a lot of people in the lottery. It seems like they're building young anyway. I think McDermott was their oldest player on the roster last year and he's might have just turned 30. I think he just turned 30 this year which is crazy that Doug McDermott out of Creighton is now 30 years old

but here we are with the Spurs. They have a young team and I don't expect that to change regardless of Pop. So I think with them, that's the path that they're going. We know what they, in a way, what the front office wants them to be. Pop obviously is helping lead them to the playoffs. last night, I thought the Pistons, they had a great night as well in terms of building a young roster around Cade Cunningham. We know what they're trying to be. They lost cap space, though, by absorbing Kemper Walker from the Knicks.

And then with that pick, they got to take on Kemper. They drafted Jayland Duren, a high-flying center out of Memphis, you know, shop locker, lob threat. And it's interesting with them because you just mentioned Aiton as a potential maybe spurs under the radar candidate. the Pistons were previously connected to Aiton as one of their top targets, but now they lose a little bit of cap space. What does Draft Night with what happened mean for Aiton's future, and also what does it mean for the Phoenix Suns? Well, first of all, I just want to give a kudos to the Pistons

because they seem like they have a plan, right? They seem like they have a plan of action and what they want to build around something. And like that says a lot, especially in this league where you see, plans shift from year to year. So kudos to the pistons. But in terms of Aiden, I don't, it's, it didn't, it's just funny because every time I think about Aiden, I think about it didn't have to be this way. It did not have to do that. It did not have to be like this. It didn't have to, if Phoenix just pays their guy, I think that a lot of things would have just fallen into place. But where does this go for Aiden and the Sons? I think it's still a wait in C mode. I think

I think they're in waiting to see and see if someone else wants to make a commitment to Aiden. Because it's clear, like, I remember I was talking to James Jones during the playoffs. And it wasn't necessarily, and it was one of the first times where, at least personally, where I saw, oh, they really might not want Aiden. They really, they really might not want to keep him on the roster. What gave you that impression from that conversation? I remember this is a direct quote to what he said. He said he's a free agent, so I can't talk about anything in the future.

All I can say is what that will we've said, and I've said time and time again. I think DA is a really good player, and we believe in him. And our job is to grow and help him to develop, help him to continue to grow and to be the player that he expects to be. And that hasn't changed. It was on the surface, it didn't seem like a ringing endorsement when I heard when I, when I talked to him. It didn't seem like a guy that like, I juxtapose that with, you know, GM Bob Myers, the Golden State. a couple of days ago when I asked about if he wants to keep, you know, if he wants to keep his core together. And that's a winning core with, you know, Wiggins, with Poole, with Kavana Looney.

And he said, we want to keep him. We want to keep all our guys. It's going to be tough. We want to keep all our guys. I didn't get that sense from James Jones, who oversees a team that, you know, no matter what you want to say about them, are in contention to go to the finals. They were this year and they were the previous year. And a lot of it has to do with Aden, who is a huge piece. And there haven't been that many ringing endorsements of Aiden from that team. And, you know, you have the reports of, you know, the game seven in the semifinals of him getting benched and why that happened. It just seems like a marriage that's on the brink of collapse.

And it's hard to see that because I feel like, and maybe it will be different if the Phoenix Suns had a different. reputation around the league, but, you know, knowing how they are in terms of pain people and Robert Sarver and things like that, it's hard to see this marriage kind of staying together. But, you know, things can change. But I just don't, it just doesn't seem like, it just seems too far gone for Aiden to come back. Could that be a blessing of disguise for the sons in the same way you suggest that it could be for the Maver's of Brunson? I don't know. I think I'm more team Aiden, because when you when you it depends. I'll say this.

It would depend on what they get back in a deal for Aiden. So like if they get a good piece for Aiden, then cool. But Aiden is such a foundational piece for that team when he's on. If he's out of the equation, the team looks a little different. You have an aging Chris Paul who at times look really, really tired in the

postseason this year. You have Devin Booker who has a lot to prove as a number one guy. And then you have Miles Bridges. You have a guy, you have these things, but you don't have a front court presence. And that's big in this league, especially when I think with teams are going small, I think aiding can be an anecdote to that with that team.

And so I think it would be tough. I think I'm on the side of that. It'll be really, really tough if you lose aiding out and free agency. But it depends on what you get, but I think it'll be really tough to see him go out and walk out the door. There's still a risk for them that they lose them for nothing because the pistons can still open up. over $34 million in cap space.

They can still get up the 40 if they really want to. The Spurs, we already mentioned. The Magic are at 28 million right now. They're not a destination for Aiton, but just noting them. Indiana at 26 million, they had talks for Aiton prior to the trade deadline as Zach Lowe at ESPN previously reported. That was the bonus Aiton talks. Maybe a Turner, Aiton type of thing.

Just throwing that thought out there as a potential sign and trade possibility there. and Oklahoma City has some cap space that they can use until June 30th, but that evaporates. So they're not necessarily a threat to get eaten as of now either, unless it's some type of sign and trade scenario. So the cap space has dried up a bit, but some of those teams are interesting. And I think for Phoenix, though,

this is why there's been reports about they're looking for sign and trades, because there is a chance that he just says, peace out, and he signs. and then you have to match the offer sheet or you don't. And at that point, maybe you're overpaying him. So it's interesting on that, right? Because the signing trade requires the buy-in from the player that's about to leave. Does Aiden, like, want to help out the sons on the way out?

What do you want to do that after what he gets to where he wants to go to? You know, I think in that sense, if he goes to the team that he wants to. It's going to be fascinating here, though, because with James Jones, like you read that quote, from him. I talked to him in 2021 for a story I did on the Sons. And I asked him about like a succession plan for Chris Paul. And he's like, well, the plan

for after Chris Paul is more Chris Paul. We think he can age, you know, into his 40s. And with Aiton, I talked about what's the developmental plan for him? Because with Aiton, he's talked to me about how he embraces and loves the role that he has and he fulfills it. Like

he has. He has. He's done everything they've asked him to do at a high level. Until that, weird game seven. Which, and the grand scheme of things, doesn't, like, if someone says they're not going to pay you and is like, hasn't, and has put you in trade talks for a whole season, it's a business. It's only, it's, I get that it's a business.

We're dealing with young kids, though. We're dealing with kids who don't know that. And so, like, I could see why you would do something like that is what I'm saying. Yeah, I get it. I mean, you're 23 years old, but you got, you got, you just got to accept it. It's a business. And in a way, I kind of respect the sons for not just. handing a max contract to a guy that they don't necessarily think is a max.

Their duty, the front office's duty is to win a championship and to put this team over the top. And if they feel that giving him that money compromises that ability, then I respect the decision there. Because they, and I'm not convinced, even through all this, when he's been busting his ass on the floor, you hear stories about how it's Booker constantly on his ass. It's Chris Ball constantly pushing him. you don't want to feel like you always have to push a guy every single time he's on the floor. And so I think in that sense for Phoenix at the minimum,

it makes sense for them to be exploring sign and trade possibilities. What is it? Like is it John Collins? Is it Miles Turner? Is it getting some league minimum bigs? Bring back Javille McGee, Bismack Biombo, signed Mobamba. I mean, maybe that's what you do with the center position

and you try to flip Aiton for wings or something like that. But I just, I view the potential of Ait leaving as an opportunity to reshape the roster. That's the way I look at it from Phoenix. So, and that's since I'm excited to see what they do. If you get, if Aiden leaves, though, and all of your points are valid, you've got to get somebody that's going to continue to take the pressure off of Chris Paul, at least during the regular season. Because it's, it's evident that they need a third person on that team. They need a third all-star. Now, like, if you, Jevel McGee is really, really good for his role, but is he a superstar?

No. Like, do you, what is the ceiling for the sons if Aidan isn't on the team? It depends on what else they get. Yeah. Really. Yeah. I mean, simple as that. It depends on how they fill that gap.

Let's move on to the next team here, because I think we can tie this to Phoenix a little bit. My next question for you, Logan, is what's the best landing spot for John Collins, who, you know, in Atlanta. A lot of people expected him to be traded before draft night. on draft night that didn't happen. Chris Kirshner from the athletic said a source close to Collins told him this week that he's quote done in Atlanta.

And I've heard similar there. I've heard there was even, you know, outright conversation like, hey, get me out of here between the front office and his camp. So it seems that we're heading in that direction with John Collins after a long, long, long time of trade rumors. Is Phoenix the best landing spot for John Collins?

Another vertical athlete who can all the space the floor better than that Aiton does, or is that another team that's the best place for John Collins to go? I really, really like Phoenix. I had some other names on there. I think before the grant deal, I think I would have loved to see him in Portland, just for, they've always wanted a guy like that, you know? I know they've always been looking at Jermond and just like that was just a pipe dream that,

you know, Portland got them. but a similar guy that can pick and roll alongside a dame and hit threes and is also like you said that vertical uh vertical player also had um you know with i had the kings down too just as a sneaky team for him i don't think that that would that would ultimately work out because i Sacramento just hasn't proven that it can maximize his guys yet i know that they have mike brown on the on the staff and he's looking to change that um but i also had the member wolves as a as a destination considering like and I know we're going to talk about them later so I'll I'll stash that but I but did your point about Phoenix that would be a great setup for them and also would be a great sign and trade for Atlanta if Atlanta can pull that off at para aiding with Trey young I think that would be a great piece so I think you convinced me that Phoenix is number one KLC I think Phoenix would be a dope destination for for John Collins and it would be a good trade for teams. Yeah, I'd like, I'd like Collins for Phoenix. I don't love Aiton for Atlanta.

Atlanta to see. Atlanta to see. Atlanta to team. No, the team. I've never, I've never been to Atlanta. I've no opinions on Atlanta. Atlanta's great. Shout up to Atlanta. It's going to be intriguing. They've been after Biggs on the market, but I still have Clint Capella under contract. They could be on a Gobert type of big move. But John Collins is the guy that needs to move first with them. Any other teams? Number one, top landing sponsor, John Collins coming on. You said Minnesota

is one of them? I like, I would be intrigued by Minnesota. I really want him to go to, I think maybe he's one of those guys that, like similar to maybe in Andrew Wiggins or put him to Andre Goddow as one of those guys that comes to an example. It's one of those guys that

started their career as maybe the number two guy or number one guy that maybe just been miscast. I think John Collins would be a great three or four guy on a team. I think he's that good. I think he's good and he can be a compliment to a team. And he doesn't, I think he will flourish if he doesn't have to be the number two options.

So I think that Minnesota, there's a team that's growing and it's kind of filling out their roles. I think that I would, that would be an intriguing place for him in my mind. All right. Fifth question here, Logan. Minnesota made a trade down on draft night with Memphis Grizzlies. The Grizzlies took La Ravia with the 19th pick.

in the 20s, Minnesota, Tucker Walker Kessler and Wendell Moore, a center in a wing. And of course, in recent weeks, there's been some DeAngelo Russell trade rumors. They addressed that center spot after a lot of talk about them going after a Capella, Gobert.

You mentioned John Collins. You know, what do you think about for Minnesota here? They kind of stabilize their depth chart with two rookies that should be able to play right away, more really good defender. Kessler, one defensive player of the year in college. What's the next big move for them as they try to build this roster around Carl Anthony Towns, Anthony Edwards, and the rest of this young core? I was thinking, like, it would have to be just, it was funny because Tim Connolly, you know, who runs their basketball ops.

After the draft last night, gave a nice endorsement of DeAngelo Russell, but didn't go over the top, like, yo, he's going to be on the roster. and so I think I should read the quote just to give context. Dilo was huge to the success of this team last year. I think he's an elite passer, elite shopmaker. He loves basketball. The most exciting thing about his job, this job is getting to know the guys I've been fans for from afar. You don't want to force it. You don't want to come off as insincere or not be organic.

I'm excited to get to know him. I know how important he is the success of this team. He's a guy that is supremely talented and it's hard to believe how young he is. He's seen everything this league could possibly throw at you, so I can't wait. Now, and in a show, it seems like, you know, an endorsement, you know, towards, you know, DeAngelo. But I just, I don't see it. I think that they, the, I think that the Timberwolves got a little muddy when he was, was in the, in the lineup, particularly in the postseason. They had success with that, but it continues to be in Anthony Edwards, Carl Anthony Towns year.

So it's a team. So it seems like an odd fit for DeAngelo. So I think that might be just the next move. What do you think? Yeah, I think with them, there's probably also not a lot of interest in DeAngelo Russell. So that's not helping their cause there in terms of potential trade destinations. I mean, DeLo, he's only got the one year left on his deal, though, at $31 million. So he isn't expiring that can work against Minnesota in some ways, also for them and others since he is expiring.

for if teams if he might want to unload long-term money for a short-term deal but for Minnesota I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to hang on to Russell they don't have to be they don't have to be rut they don't have to rush right now they're not in a position where they have to do that they're fine he's 26 years old he'll turn 27 middle the next season he averaged 18 and 7 he just had the best defensive season of his entire career I mean, he's a good player.

He's not a great player, but he's a good player. He's not a max player, but he got a max based off of circumstance. Totally. I mean, he's a good player. And I think from Minnesota, there's plenty of logic here. And you bring in your rookies and you roll out a similar roster. I mean, both of the guys that they got can come in and play, right? Especially Kessler, you think can come in, depending on how they view him,

they might be removed from the conversation for some of those bigs that can be targeted like a Gobert or an Aiton in a sign and trade scenario. So I think for them we're at a point now that unless it's a big move, just keep DeLo and hold on to the season

because you never know what type of opportunities could pop up. They're a team that they were so impressive in the postseason, man. If a couple things break, they could have been Memphis. There were at times where you just see that they were just a better team on the floor. And it was one of those things where it was

like, man, if they just figure it out, just down the stretch, they could beat this team in five, you know? I really liked what I saw from the Timberwolves. And I'm curious just to see what Edwards does next season, just the jump that next jump that he takes, knowing that, you know, man, I think I'm the number one guy. I can't wait to see that from his maturation. The one thing I'll say is this is now the second postseason, Dilo has not been good. He wasn't good for the Nets back in 2019 in their first round loss. He wasn't great. in the first round from Minnesota and their first round loss. He shot 29% from two point range.

That's not going to cut it. And there was one of those games where he took a, where he took a shot down the stretch. It was just, it was, I forgets what game it was, man. They all, they all blend together.

They all kind of just blend together. This is back in April. It was game one to six. There we go. It was one of those games where like he just, it's just frustrating to watch him play. but I think he could help a team though. Like I think if there's like, you know, the next deal,

I think he'll really help a team. But it just seems like when it comes down to it in the postseason, it's just kind of, I don't want him taking away shots from Anthony Edwards or towns down the stretch. Yeah, I feel that. And also with them, with DeLo, the potential opportunities that aren't there today could be during the season. So retaining him makes some sense.

And I think about that in the context of Rudy Gober, because even though they draft Walker Kessler, that fits the mold of what they want next to towns in their front court, there's no guarantee that your rookie that you draft and have high hopes for will be super impactful, especially early in their career. So now

with, you know, we talked about Detroit earlier. They draft Duren. Maybe that takes them out of the Aiton sweepstakes. Minnesota, they draft Walker Kessler. They might be out on Goberra or Capella or even Aiton for now and any type of sign

trade scenario. That removes a team for eight. However, one team that didn't add a big, they drafted Dailin Terry with their first round pick, a wing slash guard can handle the ball. Then Dailin Terry, the Bulls got him. A lot of people thought they might trap the big at that spot. They did not. They remain a team that could be of interest for Rudy Gobert. Considering Utah's position, considering they are open to Rudy Gobert trade offers,

should the Bulls go all in for Rudy Go Bear, Logan? I don't think it's going to make a difference. I mean, yeah, probably. They should just to be as a net positive, but I think the Bulls are who they are. Like, I think that they're going to, if they say it in a scenario, that they do go get Rue-Go Bear.

Does that put them in the final discussion, probably, but like on the fringe of it, and I don't think that they're, I think they're going to be exactly what they were last season. You know, you have another year of Demar de Rosen, who was really good, had a really good season last year. But the Bulls trailed off towards the end of the season. Because their defense, though, their defense fell off, Logan.

That's where Gobert helps. Yeah. I'm not as high on Gobert as you are. If you listen to the real ones, I'm just not. Like, even, okay, plays really great defensively during the regular season, right? And during the postseason, what exactly happens? He gets trapped in picking rolls and what, and he gets in the ball of the jazz get clobbered. He's never played with backline defenders like Alex Caruso and Lanzo Ball.

And if they didn't have to give up Patrick Williams in a deal, having him out there, too, never mind adding Daly and Terry now? What do you think is going to happen to the Bulls of Gobert goes on the team? What is going? They're going to have a top defense in the NBA during the regular season. And then during the playoffs, they're going to have the ability to still switch, which you need to in the postseason. They're going to have more lineup flexibility.

That's what I think. Because if you have a healthy Lonzo, which is a big question, he has that knee issue right now. If you got Lonzo Caruso, maybe you still got Pat Williams. Maybe Daly and Terry is one of those rookies who's contributing early because he's already good defensively. Maybe they make one other move at the deadline to add another wing forward type. They're going to have a better overall defense than what the jazz have had around Gober. What Utah builds around Gober is it's about him. And he cleans up everything, all the penetration, everything.

But when he's pulled out, nobody else could clean it up around the rim. I think Chicago would have enough others who can. The overall goal, though, right? Because you have, Chicago's a veteran team, Levine and DeRosen and all these guys who want to win a title or at that time in their career where they're like, yo, they only have a finite amount of time to win a title. Does Gobert put them in that conversation or are they just a better defense that loses in the second round of the postseason?

I mean, I think you, to even be in the conversation, their defense, needs to be better. They're not getting through Janus and the Bucks with Nicola Bucciovich. All do respect to Booch. Solid player. He does what he does on offense. Very important on the offensive end, but he's not more than a fine defensive player.

So I think for Chicago, you upgrade for the potential team that you have to get through in the Eastern Conference, even against Boston, Horford, Time Lord, their front court, Philly with Embed, and so on, you're going to have to have size, and that's where Gobert helps you there.

And I think with them for Rudy Gobert, some of the offensive limitations, like we saw the clippers switch screens have like little guys defending Gobert and he can't do anything about it posting up. Two things. The Utah Jazz could have done a better job getting him the ball in a lot of those scenarios. We know the play from the postseason this year with Donovan Mitchell had like it was, I think Gober just sealing off to defend a writer underneath the rim and everybody ignores him. It's just whack sometimes how that can happen. Yeah, and it's crazy because like the jazz just, I don't care what they say. I'm just looking at body language. you could tell that they just out on Gobert.

And I think more than anything for this trade. And I hope it would happen. Just trade him out of Utah because I think a fresh start will be great for everyone involved, including Gobert. I think it would be amazing for Gobert. And that's the second thing. You know, like, it'll be good for Gobert, right? I think offensively it could be good for Gobert too because, let's just be real. DeMarter Rosen and Zach Levine are better than Donovan Mitchell and Mike Conley.

those two are better than anything the Jazz have had on offense in Rudy Gobert's entire career in terms of isolation, end clock scoring ability. And so in that sense, I think even if teams are switching against Gobert and even if the Bulls are ignoring him

for some of his lower efficiency postoffs underneath the rim, you have to Marta Rosen and you hopefully bring back Zach Levine, which it seems like they will be. I just view that as a far more complete team with top-end wing defenders, top end scores, the best defensive interior player

in basketball and Rudy Gobert. That feels like maybe not a favorite in the Eastern Conference, like you said, but they feel a lot closer to a serious contender than they do prior to getting Rudy Gobert to me. I think that it will,

I think if they do trade for Ready Gobert, I think the Bulls are going to be like the sexy team going into this season, and I think that it's just going to end in the second round loss, just like how it normally does. I think it's going to be like a carbon copy of next year. I could be wrong.

And I'm sure like a lot of people will remind me that I'm wrong. But I just think that that's what's going to happen. And honestly, that just speaks to how hard it is to winning its league at a high level. So it's no, no shade of the Bulls or Rudy Gobert. But I don't know if it's, I don't,

my thing is I think my vision is just them, what is a move that's going to bring them over the top in the title contention? And I just, I think in a vacuum, I just don't think Rudy Gobert is that. And I think that that might be, that might just be me,

just like the way I, look at it and how that being wrong, but I just don't see it putting them into the title discussion. This morning on the ringer.com, a lot of our sappers, including you, wrote about the winners and losers of the 2022 NBA drafts. You had a blurb in there about the Brooklyn Net situation. Logan, what's going to happen for Kevin and Kairie Irving? I think it's going to end with, I think this is going to end with Kyrie just leaving, And. Pacing out,

signing elsewhere or signing trip? It depends on like ultimately where he wants to go. I don't think that they, I think we're at the list stage of where he would go. I think it depends on the destination. But I think that it's funny because I went out there in March. And you could see kind of this the seeds of just, it just wasn't good, man.

It doesn't, it didn't seem like just a, a functioning environment. Like it looks like it, it didn't seem like, you know, this was a team with the plan. It seemed like a team that was, whose plan all kind of went to shit. And I think that's the story of this franchise. And, you know, you have the reports that Kyrie is looking elsewhere, you know, that made some calls. Kevin Durant hasn't, you know, has not talked to the team in weeks, you know.

And I don't think he. He's confident in the, I don't think Kevin is confident in the front office right now. And I don't know if he's at the stage of leaving, but there's a big uneasiness from not only the Kyrie side, but the KD side as well. Where does that lack of trust with the front office stem from? So it depends. Like, it depends on who you ask, right? I think that Kevin is one of those guys that, one of those superstars. Now, he, not to say he won't get on a call.

and recruit and things like that. Like some of other guys, like maybe a LeBron and, I guess you could, LeBron is like the person and the model for this, right? He is one of those guys that is like, or at least right now, he's one of those guys that doesn't want to recruit, isn't in the position to recruit or doesn't feel like he's in a position and recruit, whether you like that or not. But I think his biggest beef is maybe, I think that he didn't feel like,

like the front office grew to try to understand Kyrie or whatever that means. And I, you know, I would push back on that saying, hey, you know, like when a guy leaves, you know, for two weeks at a time or there's, there's things that Kyrie earns the lion's share of the blame. But I think that Kevin feels like, hey, man, like you guys didn't try to understand this guy. You guys didn't try to, you know, figure out where he was coming from. And there's another thing that happened, KOC. The Nets let go of Adam Harrington,

who was really close with Kevin and his staff. And he's one of Kevin's guys. And that really had a big ripple effect on just how Kevin feels about this right now. So he is still in just kind of figuring it out mode. But where there is some fire to that smoke. that, you know, he's kind of reevaluating where he stands with this. And it's going to be an interesting, I think at the top of the pod, you actually might have the biggest offseason.

I think the Nets are going to have the chance to look a lot different come opening night next year. You wrote on the Ringer, it's hard not to feel for Durant, hardened with whom he worked hard to reconcile after the two-stop talking a few years back, deemed the Nets in untenable environment. And Irving, who said he wanted to play with Duran at 50, might be days away from departing. Durant left the bay to be with his homies, win titles, enjoy a new start.

Now that vision is on the verge of crumbling. Was Hardin right to bounce? Yeah, I probably, like, based on what he thought, because, I mean, no matter what you think about Hardin is a thing, but if you look at what transpired before that, and you look at it through Hardin's eyes, he's like, hey, man, I came here, we were going to win a title,

we were going to do all these things. And a lot of that I had to do with Kyrie being on the roster. Now that he's not even playing, and based on, he's not playing because of things that he could control. It's too untenable for me, man. I don't want to deal with this. And that was,

so from that vantage point, yeah, he was, he was right to bounce because the situation wasn't what he thought it was going to be. So with Katie, he signs off on moving Hardin, because Hardin shows up to camp out of shape. You know, it feels like the best thing for the direction of the organization.

Is there any logic to Kevin Durant saying goodbye to Kyrie Irving in this situation? Could it be for his best interests in Brooklyn for Kyrie to go? I think Kevin is using the same approach that he used when, if you look at, I wrote about this in a piece that I wrote for Kevin a few months back, where when James Harden left, Kevin was just like, that's what he did. and I can't fault him for that decision because I made a decision to leave in free agency and I can't fault somebody for doing something that I would do. I think he's making the same,

he has the same attitude towards Kyrie, where it's like, from what I've heard, they're still pretty close. And I think that, I think that, I think that Kevin blames the front office

for not handling as well as they could have. By sending him away from the team. Yeah, instead of blaming, instead of blaming Kyrie himself, I think that that's where we are right now. I think that he's still in a lot of ways on Kyrie's side more than he is on the front offices side in this one. And I got to sometimes push back on this because, like, Kevin chose to come to Brooklyn to play with Kyrie. Yes. Has his influence on this organization looms so large, right? if he can get like it's hard for me to hear you know all man the organization this this and

that one like pretty much the team of the last two years to start the organization to start the season were built in Kevin's vision so it's it's hard to kind of like you know wash your hands of it but those are that's just kind of how he feels is that hey man like I brought this guy in and Hyrie and the front office didn't do enough to support him in a time when we kind of needed to support him. It's an unfortunate situation there. It is. It's good for drama,

but unfortunate for the Nets that I reached this point. Just in all ways, man. It didn't have, and it's crazy. I always think like it just didn't have to be this way, you know? This team, and it's ironic because Kevin came to kind of reconcile relationships and also, also like build relationships with his BFFs.

And it just, it's not working out. It's, it's doing the exact opposite. And you juxtapose that with Golden State winning, the team that he just left, winning a title without him. Now, you know, you, you hear him say, like, you know, I'm not tripping like good for them. I have a lot of friends in that organization. I'm really happy for them. But that's just hard to see on a, on a whole bunch of level, like just an outsider's

perspective. You see him going to another place and it doesn't work out for him. And it actually is the quite opposite. It's destruction. So it's just tough to see this. All right. So he's in a position now. He's entering the first year of his new contract extension.

He could give a list if he wants to. He can say, I want to go to this team or that team. Ultimately, the nets are the team that have a lot of leverage here. They do with Irving to an extent. And they definitely do with Kevin Durant. Any team in the NBA could step up and try to make the quote unquote best offer that Brooklyn could accept. which team or teams do you think should be the most aggressive in pursuing a Kevin Durant trade if it comes to that point?

You mean other than the entire league? I mean, let's say, well, maybe it is the entirely. Maybe it's 29 teams. Which team do you think should be, I mean, like, do you think Oklahoma City should be? No, I don't think. So not the whole league. I don't think, yeah, you're right. I think, you know what it would be fun to see him play?

I would just, I would love to see him play in like Miami. I don't know how they, like Miami just take one last swing and just go try to go get him, right? And just, I would like to see him in that type of environment. That would be cool. I would say Miami would be a fun team. How about Phoenix? Just to throw out a team that we talked about earlier. DeAndre Aiton, sign and trade, you know, with a salad,

and then you can maybe throw in all your future picks. Maybe you can give a. That would be phenomenal because it would put them back in the division against Golden State. That would be great. Yes, let's do that. Let's figure that. Let's do that. You talk about drama. Let's do it. Memphis. Memphis.

That'd be fun. I mentioned that to be fun. Earlier in the week, kind of, you know. That would be fun to have Katie on Memphis. That would be cool. Also, like, he, you know, rocks with Memphis hip-hop, so that would be tight. And then, like, just that, that would be like the valid, it would be the validation of how great Memphis, the great thing that Memphis has cooking right now. Where do you think he would want to go if he could choose any of the other 29 teams? That's tough, man, because he really loves, like, I think he really loves Brooklyn

and the idea of living out in New York. I think he's where he ultimately wants to be and where he wanted to be. I think just the situation messed that up. I don't know. You know what would be great. San Antonio. That would be a really fun thing to see if, like, he went to San Antonio. Antonio and just played under that system and just be because ultimately and this goes back to the

point of you know him not being does it him not feeling like it's his job to recruit people um he really just wants to be a basketball player like he he just happens to be really way better than like 98.9% of the league you know but he just wants to be a basketball player that just plays basketball So if he played in San Antonio, he can just be just that, you know, and like I let the front office put pieces around him and things like that. I would say San Antonio would be a fun. I think that would be my, like, that would be the one where I would be like, oh, yeah, that would be cool. That would be a perfect fit. Did you pull 98.9% out of nowhere?

Or is that like a particular ranking to say he's like the fifth best player in basketball? Yeah, I think that was like the fifth best player in basketball. You did the math in your head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Really smart, Logan. Are you going to Summer League?

I'm going to Summer League. Okay. Are you going to Summer League? Yeah, I'll be there early in the dates for it. I don't know the exact date, seventh to the 11th or 12, something like that. We got to get dinner. We will for sure. We will for sure.

No doubt about it, man. I'll be there around that timeline too. So everybody in Vegas, I'll see you guys there. Logan, thank you for joining the void today, man. Man, thanks for having me, man. Follow the void. Solodola Part 3. It's better than part one.

Thank you, Logan. Thank you again to Logan Murdoch for joining The Void. Thank you to Jesse Lopez for producing this week's episode. And thanks to you for listening. I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.