The Mismatch - Sixers Survive, Impactful Injuries, Believing in OKC, and Playoff Predictions

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

Verno and KOC share what they enjoyed the most from KOC’s interview with Victor Wembanyama before turning their attention to the play-in games from earlier this week (01:29). They discuss their disappointment with Zion Williamson's injury and Brandon Ingram’s performance in the Pelicans' loss to the Lakers, as well as their surprise at the Kings easily defeating the Warriors (10:16). Do the Lakers stand any chance to upset the Nuggets? How far can the inexperienced Thunder go? The guys debate whether Joel Embiid can bounce back to his MVP form against the Knicks (38:48). Also, they discuss the hideous performance from the Hawks, Coby White’s huge game for the Bulls, the Heat’s chances without Jimmy Butler, and more (47:09). You can find KOC’s interview with Victor Wembanyama here. Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This might be the best quarterback draft class in years, and we have huge franchises like Chicago, New England, and Washington with a ton on the line. My name is Craig Horlebeck and I host the Ringer NFL Draft Show with Danny Kelly, Ben Solack, and Danny Hyfitz. We cover trades, free agency, the draft, obviously, everything. We'll tell you all about which quarterbacks are going to be good, which quarterbacks are going to be bad, like Kenny Pickett, and if there's a diamond in the rough like Brock Purdy. Follow us at the Ringer NFL Draft Show on Spotify. Welcome to the mismatch. and joining me on this Thursday afternoon from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Feereepin.

Boe! It's playing. Playing. We have a lot to get to because we have watched four games this week already and more to come on Friday night, which are going to finally determine what we have for every playoff matchup. But before we get into all the games, I do want to give you some kudos to start the show. I listened to the Victor Wenbanyama interview today. When I was driving home and I am excited, I'm going to check out the video version because, obviously, as I'm listening in my car, I can't see some of the plays that you guys are talking about as you're talking through them.

But I got to tell you, I was left thinking the league is in deep, deep trouble with this guy because he is so measured. He is so sound of mind in his strengths, his weaknesses, what he wants to improve on. He talked about, you know, being analytically inclined and changing his strengths. shot pattern throughout the year. And I thought very, very interesting to hear him talk about kind of how he views his own game and also the season. And I walked away massively impressed. You know, obviously I've heard him do interviews, but this was probably the longest form that I have heard him in. And he has an awareness of self and an awareness of team. And thinking about his future within the league that I absolutely love to hear.

You did a really good job with it, and that was big to get him to sit down for over 40 minutes. And yeah, I got done listening to it, and I was like, oh, boy, everybody is in trouble because this is the kind of guy that is starting to figure things out, and you could really tell, felt like he started to figure more. things out as the season went on. And when you think about someone like that getting better, it is downright scary. Yeah, it's really unbelievable with him, with the way in which that he looks at his own game. Like there's this one stat that I didn't say on the podcast, but I put it in the article version on the website. It was provided to me by Synergy Sports. And it was about his dribbling, right? Like when he dribbles to the basket more than

once on drives to the rim. He has a really high turnover, he turns the ball over 13% of times. He dribbles the ball two or more times on drives to the rim, right? And I asked Victor, just an open question. Like, what is the weakness? What is the thing that you're going to work on this off season? And he's like, well, sometimes when I drive to the basket,

I get knocked off my spots. Or sometimes I don't pass the ball out quick enough against pressure. He's like, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to change. I'm going to take sharper angles on drives to the basket. I need to get lower. I need to improve my timing on passes. And it's like, yo, he's touching on like the number one weakness that he has on offense without me even mentioning. I didn't even bring anything up related to that.

And there are other times throughout the interview that just his insight and his self-awareness is just so unbelievable for somebody at any age, never mind at 20 years old, just to know who you are and the things you need to work on. I left the interview just completely blown away in the same way that you were, Chris, where I was just like, this, the league isn't even more trouble that I realized, just understanding his mindset and his approach to the game of basketball. My two favorite parts, you'll like this. My two favorite parts, one was you gave him every opportunity in the world to get out of the defensive player of the year, Rudy Gobert, quote. and said, you gave it to a French reporter.

Maybe something was lost in translation, but the quote is roughly, give it to Rudy this year from now on, that award will be mine. And you said, is that what you intended on saying? He's like, yeah, that's the proper translation.

I was like, oh, God. I was like, okay. The other thing, by other favorite part, I think you'll find this fascinating. My other favorite part was him talking about as he has this freakish size, and you guys were talking about different things he does within the game.

And he was saying how it sometimes feels. What he has found is that when he is on the move, when he is off the dribble with the threes, or he is in movement, that it all feels more natural to him with the ball. But yet if he is standing there and you were to swing it to him, then the ball feels like almost small, almost like it's out of, it's out of sorts. And that it's, and that is, I mean, that's the mark of a true athlete. Athletes are typically moving, right? And so his whole thing. And then he then as a comp for why this feels so strange, but yet someone. else has dealt with this before was friggin' will chamberlain he's like he trash is free throw shooting

he's like you know they always said you know will chamberlain was a very bad free throw shooter but he had these sweeping hook shots and was great going to the lane and it was like how is a guy that is 20 years old using a comp for his game and why it's feels awkward when he's not moving, yet it feels natural when he is moving with a ball that is literally the size of a baseball inside the guy's hand. And he's like, you know, this is, you know, Will Chamberlain, like, what? What is, what does that even be? And you know he has read a book about Will Chamber.

Like that's exactly what I thought as I'm watching it, right? Like, how does he know Will Chamberlain felt comfortable on the move? And yet when he was standing still, it felt more unnatural to him to shoot something. And yet everything felt natural when he was moving. And I don't know. It's just not who I expected him to say or bring up. You could have brought up anybody from honestly the last 60 years. He's like, but you know, another big guy that dealt with this is,

well, Chamberlain, you may know that he. And I'm like, what? You may have him. Will Chamberlain. Okay, Wemby. I mean, he seems great. He is awesome. He was great.

It's so interesting. Like, I love the self-awareness. Like, he understands his greatness. He understands what he can become. And, like, that's why he talked about, like, he doesn't fall into the distractions, partying, drinking all. that type of stuff. He, like, he talked about, like, modeling, like, trying to learn a move from Kevin Durant this summer. Like, the way Kevin Durant kind of comes off of screens and kind of stops

on two feet, it's kind of like a, it's a hesitation, a record scratch type of movement. And he talked about how he calls it Katie timing. That was just cool phrasing. He's like, I think of it as Katie timing. How only Katie moves this way, it's like, I want to do that, but it's really hard. And it's just like, it's like, yo, you weren't doing sham god dribbles a year ago. Like he's got to be doing the quote unquote katy timing movement off ball in a year. Like that's how quickly he picks things up. Like somebody around, you know, his circle told me it's amazing how when he has an idea of something he wants to try on the court, how quickly he becomes good at it.

And I think we saw that over the course of this season where he's got better every single month. and watching him with Metzni 2 the year prior, he is just worlds better than he was just a year ago, when he was the best prospect since LeBron James. So I just can't wait to see what year two, Victor Weniam is going to look like. I can't wait to see what the team is going to look like around him. I think for the Spurs,

you have a borderline top 10 player on your team right now in Victor. It's only going to be a matter of time, and he's a top five guy in the league. I wonder how much that accelerates things. like you said, Chris, at the top of the show, how quickly the league will be in trouble with him. Yeah, I would encourage everybody, go check that out. That's on the Ringer NBA Draft podcast feed is also on YouTube.

So make sure you go check out Kev's big sit down with Victor Wimbaniama as the season has ended. You know, I remember once upon a time you and I had a discussion, and this was, you know, the last or one of, the last like huge, prospects that we just knew his destiny was going to be all-time great, Hall of Fame and everything else. And it was during, I believe, the rookie year of Zion Williamson, and you and I had this discussion. And we were talking about, could he be a top 10 player for the next year? And I said, look, if we're lining up everybody on the wall and we're saying, hey, pick a team, I'm like,

we're not going to get to 10 before we take him. And I thought about that earlier this week, because as I'm watching the Pelicans play against the Lakers. It was everything that we had envisioned once upon a time that the Zion Williamson experience would be like. Now, unfortunately, the Zion Williamson experience, as many have mentioned, now includes an injury to boot. And it was like a perfect summation in many people's mind of what we've gone through with Zion, which is this flash of just incredible, unstoppable brilliance that comes to a halt. And I guess it's fair to say that even within that game, we got teased with,

this guy is absolutely unstoppable. He's at the peak of his powers. They are treating him like this heliocentric superstar. They got like four roll guys around him. It's like Alvaran. and Dyson and Murphy and Larry Nance. Like, this is who he's out there with at some point. And meanwhile, C.J. McCollum's on the bench and Yonis Falunus is on the bench,

and Brandon Ingram's on the bench. And it's like, I'm watching this and I'm like, yo, he finally found the mix. In the course of this game, Willie Green found the mix. This guy's going to get this done. And with three minutes left to go as he hits this game tying shot, you pause it right there. I thought they had all the momentum of the world. I thought they had absolutely nobody that could deal with this guy.

And I really thought he was going to get them home and they were going to win that game. And instead, he goes to the locker room with three minutes left and the Lakers now move on to play against the Denver Nuggets. I've thought about that a lot. And I feel like we just got that ripped away from us. and seeing what would have happened. I'll always wonder what would have happened those last three minutes of that Pelicans, Lakers games.

And I know it makes me sick for Pelicans fans, even though they bother me at many times. It makes me sick for them. Because that is one of those that you hang on to and you go, I think you could really convince yourself, we would have won that game, but the guy went out, right?

It's a sick joke. What happened to Norrell was that night. I mean, you got all year long, finally, Zion and Ingram, playing together a bunch of games all season, excelling. And then in the most important game of the season, Ingram throws up a stinker, so stinky that he gets benched at the end of the game. And then Zion, so amazing with 40, he still gets hurt at the end.

And then you end the last three minutes without either of them after a year, finally seeing them play together. Are you kidding me? That's how. And you did a great job on LeBron and you did a great job on AD. And kudos to Willie Green. That is hard. to bench B.I.

Brennan Engram. You benched McCollum and Valatunas. Dude, that is your second, third, and fourth best player. I know. I know. It did take guts to do that,

and it was the right decision to do it. It's just, I just feel so horribly for Pelicans fans. And then, you know, Friday night against the Kings, I mean, you're at home.

I mean, you can't be feeling great about it. The Kings still have more of their top guys. than you do. So you need to have Ingram have a big bounceback game. But what a freaking bummer, man. It just sucks for the pelicans. All right. So how about this? Now, I know you

laughed at me at December, but a lot of people have brought this up to me since. And I told you then, you were like, oh, yeah, everybody was doing the, oh, listen to Chris Vernon with the copium. Oh, this is a lot of cope, right? When John Morant

went out and I said, you know, there's part of me it says at least like, then you have time to process it. I was like, it is way worse to get it ripped away at the end. And now we've watched basketball for two nights. It was ripped away from the Pelicans. It was ripped away from the Miami Heat last night. And so while it's never good to have your season become what your season is going to become, I will tell you, I don't envy them at all. I've done it both ways. And at least you can, you have time to come to terms with this is not going to be like I thought it was going to be.

But when you get to this point in the season, and we've had back-to-back night, Zion Williamson go out and Jimmy Butler go out, and I absolutely believe both of those injuries altered those series. Or those games, for that matter, right, the playing game. I do not believe that the Pelicans would have lost if Zion doesn't go out the last three minutes. Now, they may have, who knows.

but it just felt like the wave was there and that he was going to get them home and we'll never know. It was a tie game. It wasn't like they were up big or something. And then in the heat's case, there's no way I think they would have lost that game if Jimmy Butler doesn't become just a hobbled mess

the rest of the way against Philly. And so hopefully now people can see, I wasn't just coping. This comes from years of experience and doing these seasons many different ways. when it gets ripped away at the end, it's the absolute worst. And I legitimately do feel terrible for both Heat fans and Pelicans fans and what's going on. And then on a smaller level, we even saw Caruso get banged up.

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Fandul, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Must be 21 plus in present in select states or 18 plus in D.C. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit R.G. Help.com. Opt-in required. Minimum three-leg parlay required. Refund issued as non-drawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 and less otherwise specified. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanbool.com. Do you think that that Pelicans Lakers and what came out of that? We'll get to the Pelicans Kings first. Do you think it informed how we think about this next game and who we think is going to

represent the Western Conference against the number one seed Oklahoma City Thunder. Because if I'm being honest, Kevin, this feels like a nightmare for Kevin O'Connor. This feels like an absolute nightmare. Your beloved Pelicans, your Brandon Ingram jersey in the background, your defense of the C.J. McCollum trade. And now you get to this moment. You're Zion Williams in Jersey, you've got. And now the only thing that stands beside in front of the Pelicans and possible playoff glory against a number one seed that has never been there before

so people think might be susceptible is your hated Sacramento King, Doma, Sabonis, De Aaron Fox, Keegan, Murray. And the rest? Oh, my God. This has got to be torture. Torture for you. Have you ever rooted for anyone more

than you're going to root for the pelicans? I have rooted harder than in the past, just to be clear. Maybe for the Lakers against the Grizzlies last year. Yeah, that's one series from last year, among others. Among others, that's for sure. the kings i mean i think you're you you have to pick the kings in this game right there's no zion the best player by far in the pelicans you are picking the kings in this game without a doubt to win it they should be favored even though they're on the road even though they have had their own guys

missing malik monk the potential six man of the year kevin her out but our guy the guy that you doubted the guy that you laughed at me about keon ellis was perhaps the best player on the floor in that game against the Warriors. I have talked about Keon Ellis with you. I have talked about how sometimes this happens and many times it is a role player, a defender that somebody

stumbles upon. I want to be very clear about this because the first time you brought up Keon Ellis. The reason I was flipping was not to disparage Keon Alice. I love to show with it. But rather not to disparage

Keon Ellis in anyway, who was a playoff standout to say the least, or play in standout to say the least, but rather to mock you for going out of your way to attempt to say something positive about the Sacramento Kings for once all season, and it took Keon Ellis before

you would say anything the slight bit positive. I've said plenty of positive things about the Kings. Oh, this is so good. That's true. I have all year long. Oh, for goodness sake. He even gave out a damn lunchbox and then at the end of it said, hey, this is going to be a great memento of regular season success. That was funny.

You know, right? That was good. Even Kingswans were giggling about that with this fucking guy. For those that don't know, Kevin went on Twitter and gave him. way like a DOMA sub bonus lunchbox. There's like a Fox Subbonus lunchbox that

Kings sent out in January to award voters to like promote Fox and Subbonus for 2024 All-Star and neither of them made it. But I gave it away. I've been, I'm also going to be giving away a Keonté George thing that the jazz

gave out for all rookie team. But anyway, that's beside the point. And then your last line was something to the effect of, this would be a great reminder of their regular season success. You need them to lose the pelicans so badly. Because what if what if they broke through it? And then next thing we know, they're in a war with the thunder.

Oh my God. Kevin. It'd be a four or five game series against OKC. I want the kids. I want the kids to do this now just because I think they will. I think they will do it. I'd be surprised if they don't beat. The Pelicans, they should beat the Pelicans.

In fairness, we thought they would lose to the Warriors and they curb stomped them. Oh, my God, they absolutely destroyed them. That game was crazy. Dude, it felt like at one point in the middle of what was it, the early third quarter or something like that, the Warriors started and make their run. And it's like, oh, God, here it goes again. The Kings are blowing another lead, another 15-point lead. They're going to blow it again.

And then the Kings just battled back. And they didn't just take a punch. They just did a knockout blow. Well, you had to be impressed with their other guys, right? Because whether it is Keon-Ellis, whether it is Keegan Murray, Harrison Barnes was good. Like, they were all good. Dude, Barnes and Ellis outperforming Wiggins and Clay Thompson by far in that game. By far.

Keon Ellis, you can't defend Steph any better than he did in that game. So good. Sensational. He had the secondary playmaking within the flow of the King's offense, the finishing inside, the timely buckets, the three-point shooting. Keon- Ellis was awesome. Sabonis won his battles in the interior. Keegan Murray, just, you know, he was sensational.

And Fox did what Fox, you know, typically does. But I was, you know, I think for the warrior's side of things in that game, man, boy, I mean, if that's the end of Clay Thompson, O for 10. I know Draymond says after the game it won't be. Kerr says he wants him back, but, man, oh for 10. Oh, for 10. Certainly not what you would want to leave, which was an humble. believable legacy in Golden State, but you would not want that to be your last game. It does seem like there's a lot of scuttlebutt about how they will find a way to be able to keep him.

They figure out what they're doing with Paul's contract. Maybe they can move off Wiggins. Maybe they could find, but, you know, there's a lot. There's a lot to decide there for sure. It might be over. It could be over. Well, because it's like we've got to figure out how we are going to attempt to take advantage of the last couple of Steph years.

Steph as the best player on a team and what is the best way to build out around him. And yeah, it might be, it might be Steph Curry, insert whoever on the wing and Draymond and they run it back like that. Or they may just punt on the Draymond experience.

And in fairness, a lot of the attention is paid on this one game and on Clay Thompson and about his failures in this game, the reason they're in the position in the first place is 100% Draymond. That's the reason they were in that game anyway. And so, yeah, Clay Thompson played a terrible 48 minutes,

but Draymond Green costs them the opportunity to be a playoff team this year. 100% Chris. Draymond is the whole reason why they were in that position in the first place with his reckless actions throughout the entire season, all stemming back to the beginning of last year. with the Jordan pool punch. Like he has derailed these seasons for the Warriors. He has wasted these Stefan Curry years.

And that's a real shame because Stefan Curry, yes, you could argue that he's past his prime, that he's not quite peak Steph. But boy, he is still top five, top 10s death. He's still amazing. And I think for the Warriors, they're in a position now where for years, you know, light years ahead, wanting to be the next spurs and all that,

the Warriors feel like they're in the exact position that the spurs were after they suffer. for the first round loss in the 2011 playoffs. That year with the Spurs, they lost to your Grizzlies in six games, and people said, is this the end of the Spurs? Then the following year, they get to the Western Conference Finals, they lose. The following year they get to the NBA finals, they lose. And then the year after that, they actually break through and win the NBA finals,

in part because of their draft pick in 2011 draft, Kauai Leonard. So if the Warriors are able to make the right transactions, the right pick, whatever it might be to tweak things here, you can't rule them out in some shape or form in the coming two, three, four years. But they need to hit this next big decision that they have to make like the Spurs they're getting Kauai.

Well, and unfortunately for them, they don't have the draft pick. Right. Yeah. So it's going to have to be, you know, their mode of operation is going to have to be trade. Like they don't have something else coming on the horizon, something like that.

Look, on the king, side, I will say this. If they are the ones that are able to get through and they do beat the Pelicans, their crowd is absolutely unbelievable. Incredible.

It's not like the other games that you watch. Honestly, it wasn't even like the other games that you've watched in the play in. Their crowd is unbelievable. You really feel like that is a true home court advantage. Like, that is it reminds me of teams, you know, so many of these, so many of these teams are now in different

arenas or now the money has gotten so big, you know, that the cost is so high for the tickets that it just feels very business-like, very corporate, you know, and it feels like they've got like hardcore fans, long-time fans that have been yearning for this. And small markets, I've always said this, it just matters more. But even you juxtapose their crowd to what we saw earlier in the night. New Orleans crowd was not like that at all against the Lakers. You didn't feel like the Lakers were in some kind of treacherous environment. Whereas that game started and it felt like the King's crowd was on top of the Warriors

like immediately and just that you could tell those players feeding off that crowd. So I would kind of like to see that because that would be, you know, I get that it wouldn't be as sexy. I guess, look, it's going to be small market versus small market no matter what. But Oklahoma City's got a great crowd too. Those games, you know, those games could be lit and really have home court advantages within those. But I'm not,

I'm not 100% that they, you know, those teams are both around the same level and if the Pelicans beat them. Pelicans are actually, I think, slight favorites in the game,

or maybe Kings are slight favorites. But it's still, these are like one and one and a half point lines on these games. Did you leave Pelicans, Lakers feeling any differently about a Lakers Nuggets matchup? No.

I don't think so. You're still picking Denver in that series. I'm of the belief, as I said on our most recent show, that if you're the Lakers, you'd rather face the Nuggets in the first round than down the line. The Nuggets are a team that I believe gets better over the course of the postseason. You'd be banking on, you know, LeBron and 80s staying as healthy as they appear to be right now as well for the Lakers side.

So I think it's beneficial for them to face the Nuggets now, but I'm not picking the Lakers to beat the Nuggets in the series. I'd still take Denver and, you know, six six at the most i just can't see it going seven i kind of think they're going to get a couple games this year too instead of just getting bombed out like they did last year i think it'll be competitive uh i mean last year was competitive there was close games even though they got swept there was a lot of close games when you also have to remember right like in the game planning against just one specific team i'm not like of course everybody's going to pick denver their prohibited favorites i think the lakers

could be much more competitive this year. They're still, you know, like Jeff Green helped them a lot last year. Bruce Brown helped them a lot last year. And we're going to see, can it be Christian Brown? Can it be Peyton Watson? Can it be these other guys? Because we know that so many times these games come down to the other guys and what they're able to bring to the table.

And like, a guy like Bruce Brown was making winning plays when it mattered most in fourth quarters. Like, who's that guy now that's doing that? Those role players, because the Lakers are, you know, for the most part, bringing back what they brought to the table last year, you know, for all intents of purposes. The Nuggets did lose some of those guys that were bench guys that could, you know, end up in closing lineups and really make a lot of winning plays. And it could show up. That could show up when you're just game planning against the one team. They're damn near unbeatable at home. But if the Lakers were able to steal one of the first two, I think we'd feel a lot different about their prospects. I really do. Yeah. I mean,

you can't, you can't rule it out. I think that's been the theme of our conversations, basically the whole second half of the year in the lead up to the play in as how difficult these one, eight, two, seven matchups could be in each respective conferences. And I mean, we'll see, obviously the Zion injury is a new wrinkle for the Pelican side of the things. The Monk injury still is for the Kings as well. If they are the team that indeed advances

and then obviously in the east now, the Jimmy Butler injury, if they are the team that ends up becoming the eight seat against Boston. So a lot of injuries here are unfortunately late in the year that are going to impact those races, but I don't think you can necessarily rule out anything. But with that said,

I'm picking Denver. I'm picking OKC regardless of the opponent, that is unchanged. I think those teams should win the series in five or six. Well, and this actually is going to break pretty well for OKC. If it's a Pelicans without Zion, as you mentioned,

and with Sacramento, just not somebody that has, neither of those teams have like what we talked about, like the nightmare would be playing the Lakers. Somebody with a million playoff games under their belt and crazy

size. Like, it's a veteran. and laden. That's not the same. Neither of those two teams have extreme playoff experience and have very little as units. You know, you saw Sacramento did take some scars last year by playing a great seven game series against, you know, the Warriors. And I think that was one that might have been dictated by injury as well. If Deeran Fox doesn't hurt his finger, I think people think that goes a different way. They looked really in control. and, you know, it did take Steph having 50 in game 7 to knock them out. So Sacramento probably has a little more game and big game experience than does the Pelicans, for that matter.

But Oklahoma City is not facing some veteran-laden playoff experienced BMF like the Lakers are. And so broke well for them, I think. I just think, I mean, I know like all year you've been saying to me how like if the Lakers had been matched up with OKCID, pick the Lakers, I wouldn't have. I think the Thunder are legit. They are a young team, the second youngest team in the league, but they are legit. They have a

top five guy in SGA, an MVP candidate, a guy who's going to get votes for the MVP award. They have Chet, who's already a borderline all-star, a borderline all-defense player. They have Jalen Williams, who's a perfect second star. That's fine, Kiv. And so many

high-level players. You're going to pick against them in the second round. You are. Whoever wins Clippers Dallas you're going to pick. Yes. I'm not sure. Yes, you are. I'm not sure yet. I'm not sure about that.

I'm not. I have belief in the Thunder, even though they're young. I think this group of players, even though they're young, even though they don't have experience, you've been saying that all year. And I'm telling you, here at the middle of the plane, I wouldn't pick the Lakers over them. I don't care how well the Lakers have played. I believe in the Thunder. So you don't have nearly a. as much as belief in the Thunder as I do it, it appears.

Absolutely not. So you'd pick, so you'll pick the Mavericks or the Clippers. It's the history of the league. I know that, but we saw a young Thunder team many years ago go to the finals as well. Yet they had also been to the playoffs before. It wasn't their first time in the playoffs. But still incredibly young, still incredibly young. They were incredibly young, but they had taken lumps prior to.

How many times was that Thunder squad in the playoffs before? I'm going to look this up really quickly. I'll say twice. I think once, twice. I'll say twice. They were in the playoffs twice. So they worked twice. They lost in the first round, the West finals, and then the NBA finals.

But even then, in that first year making the West finals, though, at that age, you had Katie at 22 years old, Russ at 22, Harden at 22 years old as well. They were still incredibly young, man. They also had three future MVP's in Hall of Fame. You know what I mean? I know. They still, it was still their third time through. This is not a demerit on them. It's a first time through.

It's a first time through. That's not saying they can't get to the second round, but it gets a lot harder and you're playing a lot of veteran-laden teams. Here's the thing. It's not SGA's first time either. He's been twice, and he's their best player, their most important player. He's been with the Clippers.

He's been with the Thunder once. It's not like he hasn't been. I know the team's super young, but your best player's been there twice. Not as a premier player. No, he wasn't a premier player. No, he's a role player. Right.

He's that guy now. Yeah, he is. So there's going to be an attention paid and all of those guys. It's just a learning process. Anybody that plans against you, this is not a demerit on that. I saw it just happened with Memphis the last couple of years. I know it's not. They make awesome players play left-handed.

That's what great teams do. And they make your star. look bad. I just watched it last night. You think Maxi's a bad player? Maxi, you know, lost first, you know, the first half of that game. M. B., you know, we know what he is and he has struggles. Like, that's what any coach worth their salt is going to make. That's why we see the Keyon Ellis's and the Keegan Murray's and the Nick Batum's and the Bruce Browns and the, those guys are the ones that step up in the playoffs because any coach worth their salt is going to make the best players struggle.

It's going to make life hard on them. And that's what you have to go through. Because then you spend the next summer coming up with your counters. Okay, here's how they took me out of things. And I just think the first time through the playoffs, that's what is hard for any group of young guys. Whereas that's why there's so much, you know, there's value to just being in that spot a couple of different times.

I think you're right, Chris, about everything you're saying, I just think the talent level is so overwhelming in Oklahoma City that they're the one team that could be the exception, just like they have been this entire regular season as a 57 win team. 57 wins is the second youngest team in the league. They already are an outlier. I've just yet to see the evidence that they can't also be an outlier in the playoffs. I have belief in this team. I think they're a roster filled with smart, high IQ players. They have an amazing coach and Mark Dagnalt, who is good at making adjustments. who is good at changing schemes.

We saw it all year with them, with playing different styles depending who was in and out of the lineup, with giddy, he came getting sagged off of at one point, and you would make adjustments. I feel like Dagnalls is a great coach, and they have just so many great pieces that they could end up going to the Western Conference finals. And who knows?

We'll see who ends up there on the other side of things, is the one seed. But I just can't, I would not rule out O KC at all. I haven't done my full playoff predictions yet, but it won't surprise me one bit, if I end up having them go all the West way to the West finals. The other thing is you never know, and this is the biggest lesson of the last couple of nights,

you don't know how this is going to play out. We're not predicting the Pelicans with Zion anymore. We're not predicting the heat with Jimmy Butler anymore. And to switch over to that Heat Philly game, I'll forever believe that a Jimmy Butler didn't get hurt, that that would have gone a different way. But he did. And that's the way this goes.

and sometimes guys are going to get banked up. Obviously, he tore his MCL in the first quarter of that game. And then by the time he got to the fourth quarter, them not having Rozier, them not, you know, they didn't have Duncan Robinson. I mean, I don't know how much that would have made a big difference. But it was Tyler Hero with the ball, Jaime Hockes with the ball, and that was it. Bamadapio was nowhere to be found, which was depressing.

And it was like kind of Tyler Hero versus the 76ers down the stretch. And it wasn't good enough. And meanwhile, that first half of that game where they ran that zone defense, I mean, you just saw the mess that Philly became and just did not know how to attack it. We're trying to force the ball to MB over and over again. It was just steal after steel. and the heat getting transition buckets. And then in that second half,

I thought Batum actually gave a great post-game interview. And one of the things he said was, I was trying to force the ball, and we all were, into M.B, into like that free throw line area and then try to operate from there. Instead of shooting the ball, which would then space them out,

which would then give a lane for Tyrese Maxie to drive it, which would then give some space for Joelle and B. And so we had to start letting it fly in that second half. And obviously he was the greatest of recipients of that. I mean, Battoom was, could you imagine if you never watch,

if you didn't know anything about Nick Batum and that was like an NBA game you just watched, he was unbelievable. The block shot was the cherry on top at the end of the game after everything he did. after he had forced the back court by nudging hero into the back court. Well, and I tweeted about this, it took them way too long. And maybe they just thought Jimmy was playing possum.

But if you watch every possession of the fourth quarter, Butler never even had the ball. He literally ran to the corner. Yeah, decor. And just stood in the corner. And finally they were like, well, to hell with this, we're wasting Batum on him. They moved Batum over to Hero.

and he made like these two just absolutely critical plays down the stretch. Other critical play, you know, Kyle Lowry made a critical play down the stretch. Ubrae made a critical play down the stretch. Like it's always the other guys that seemingly show up, but I was not impressed with Philly. They won that game, but I was not impressed with Philly. And I feel a lot differently about their prospects against. I would have felt differently about their prospects against Boston, and I even feel differently about their prospects against New York.

I think for the Sixers side of things on one hand, you can say it's one game. Tobias Harris missed four layups on one play. I mean, it was just an ugly game. The Heat did really muck it up, especially with that zone defense. The Heat are a very good defensive team anyway. But for the Sixers side of things, yeah, you would have liked to see Maxi perform far better than he did.

And B, it was an ugly performance as well, six of 17 than the game for him. But ultimately, it is just one game. Also, the crowd really turned on their ass. Yeah, well, that's a Philly crowd, man. I got you. Talk about passionate fans. Philly fans are some of the most passionate in the world. So I think for the Sixers against the Knicks, this is why I've been telling you, Chris,

you can't rule out the Knicks either because Brunson playing at the level he is. He's like a top 10 guy right now and you have O'GN and O'Bee back. You can't roll out the Knicks to win that series over Philadelphia. With the way M. Bede was moving last night,

with the way he was moving and doing the statue act and all that, man, I'm watching that game and I'm like, Brunson is going to bust his ass on this pick and roll. Because you know the way that works, Hartinstein or whoever comes up,

sets that screen, screen, he's going to come off that screen. And it's like, if that's not going to be a mobile guy, he's going to be able to stop up. Short hit the shots, go all the way to the basket. I mean, M.B.'s got to be moving a lot better than he did against Miami last night against Brunson. Because he puts pressure on that back line of your defense in a way that a lot of guys do not. and it's just constant pressure and constant need to make a decision against him. You even saw it a couple years ago.

You remember Trey had success doing this, you know, sometimes when they were playing against Philly in the famous series. But I just, I can just see Brunson coming around those screens and putting pressure on that defense in a way. I don't know. I didn't like the way he was moving last night. I didn't like it. I agree with you.

And I think you could look at this, you know, a couple of different ways you can look at it as and be moving pretty sluggishly. He looked like he was either fatigued or tired or hurt or injured or whatever it was from start to finish in the game. And yet the Sixers still managed to win.

They still played a high level enough defense against, you know, granted the heat offense is not great. Come on. I have played against Highwood Smith. I know, I don't. Just let me get through. And they did make appropriate adjustments in the second half.

They didn't finish with Tobias Harris. They did enough despite Mbid having a really underwhelming performance. And so if you think you're going to get this version of Joanne Lombie against the Nix, then pick the Nix in the series. Sure, of course, you're going to pick the Nix. But this is also just one game. And Bede has showed a lot. previous games to have a strong level of belief that he can be way better than he was against

the heat in that single performance. And that's where it could be challenging for the Knicks with a lot of their guys out. Well, now they're doing the whole M.B's hurt again. And if he's hurt, then obviously, again, you're picking the Knicks in the series. That's what Stephen A was saying all half time. I'm like, bro, they just scored 39 points. They just won eight games in a row coming into this. I saw Embed in one of the games in person. He was unbelievable. And it's like, I don't know. Look, M.B. never gets any blame. So it's like, he hasn't performed. Well, he's dragging. He's hurting. And then he does perform. Then what? Because he did perform down the stretch. He made some big plays down the stretch. Obviously, stepping into the three at the top of the

key was critical. offensive rebound critical. Like these are plays that he could make, and he did make. I just think the heat without Jimmy Butler and without Rosier, you should beat them. It was Tyler Hero versus your team. If you didn't come out on top of that, I don't know, I don't know what to tell you.

And the heat, I don't know if they're going to be able to beat Chicago. Obviously catch a little bit of a break with Caruso. Caruso announced this afternoon game time. decision. That's what they say. Stupid Andre Freeman stepping on him. It's ridiculous. It says,

Woj tweeted out, increased optimism on his chances to play. His availability will likely be a game time decision. That was 10 minutes ago, 155 p.m. Pacific. They need him too. They need him. Oh, for sure they do.

He's amazing. He's one of the best defenders of basketball and all defensive player. He should be consensus. Dude's incredible. How disgusting was that Hawks performance? Oh, my God. Do or die game and you give up 40 in the first quarter?

I like your tweet to me during the game. You showed the little giff of me running with the bomb saying blow it up, blow it up. Yeah, that was absolutely hideous performance. Hideous. Hideous. Bro, do you know the Grizzlies had 51 different starting lineups at 33 players and the Hawks won nine more games than them? That's just deplorable.

Just as a quick aside. It's horrible. Did you see, so the other day I quote tweeted something from Stephen Adams stats. It's an account on X. And it was about the Grizzlies with their amount of games missed. Oh, and how they, yeah, injury, suspension, whatever the reason, just games missed by the Grizzlies. And it is like, you guys had almost double anybody else in the league. Historic.

Double. Yes, a historic amount. The Grizzlies, I'm pulling up the number right now. this year had 594 games missed due to injury, rest, personal, or suspension. The next four teams had 351, 354, 314, 310, 287. And so anyway, in the tweet, I had said with the Grizzlies, you know, it's amazing they won 27 games considering all the injuries. Taylor Jenkins might secretly be the coach of the year.

What do you think about that take, Chris? because I legitimately thought where does he belong? If you're ranking the 10 best performances this year, he's in the top 10, right, for best coaching performances of the season, right? I think that's probably fair. I also think that they need to go, and what really needs to be done is two years ago

needs to be made right, and they need to go steal that coach of the year out of Monty Williams' office and give it to the rightful owner, Taylor Jenkins from two years ago with his super young team. Because now the guy with the source, super young team who's having crazy success. Mark Dagnall's going to run

away with it this year for what it seems. Or he did. He already did win the coaches one. Yeah, and he'll win, I think he'll win the media one too. But Jenkins should have won that year over Monty Williams. He should have. Yeah. And now no, but the whole point was not to get off of the Grizzlies,

but the Hawks won nine more games. That is outrageous. Outrageous. They stink. And Just, what is so gutless to give up 40 in a do or die game? I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it.

And Kobe White, what a sensation. I mean, we talked earlier in the year a long time about Kobe White and how everything is not, you know, development is not always linear. That was our discussion point. And I went back and looked and I was thinking of myself, you think about how many guys we just decide what they are so quickly, maybe after their rookie year, maybe after their second year,

certainly after their third year, and for certain, we know what they are by year four. Because that's the time when that rookie contract is about to expire. Kobe White did not get extended before his third year. He didn't get extended before his fourth year.

And then after he had completed his entire rookie contract signed a three-year $36 million deal. That has got to be the best contract in the entire NBA. You know, like, what kind of player are you, how are you getting a player like that for $12 billion nowadays? You didn't draft. That's in a second deal. And it's like, so he, like, it's not like the league dictated.

Nobody else was sitting there going, you know who could be awesome if really, you know, Zach Levine wasn't there and was really given a chance to play. 35 plus minutes. Like, he got the deal he got after year four. But it's a great, great story and a great reminder of not always coming to terms quickly with who a guy is because sometimes it's year five. And what a moment for him. Do or die game and a guy drops 42.

I mean, he's playing the career high hawks, as they're called. And six assists, zero turnovers and nine rebounds and two steals. I mean, he was a two-way star for the Bulls in that game. It was amazing. No way Zach Levine's that good. No, I mean, my favorite play that Kobe White had was like third quarter transition opportunity where he drove like into Trey Young, which it seemed like everybody was doing all game long just attacking him.

And Trey offered zero resistance in transition. And then he met Bogdanovich at the nail. and he just spun past him from his left to his right into a spinning right-handed layup. I just thought it was just a cool play with his hair bouncing, just going through two defenders on the break, playing aggressive. I just felt Kobe White throughout that entire game, pedal to the metal on both ends of the floor. But that one just sticks in my mind as one of those moments where he was the aggressor from the opening tip all the way to the end. and like he clearly wanted it and it wouldn't shock me one bit at all

if as you said the Bulls this year actually end up beating the heat and the play and after they blew a fourth quarter lead last year if they end up being the team that advances the first round and faces the Celtics probably a mercy killing for either of them that advanced to play against the Celtics

but I do think either one of them can at least make it competitive for a couple of games right and that's that's the end of that. They're probably both. They're getting fed to the wolves.

The Celtics are just a totally different level than either of them. But I will say, as I was watching it last night, the Bulls, there's so much more likable than the Hawks watching them. They got players that, like, they do go hard and they do play with energy. They got Kobe. They got Dissueuomu. They got, you know, these guys that they go for it. and I'll be interested to see how it plays out with the Bulls and the Heat because the Heat without Jimmy Butler, I mean, that's done.

I do think that the Heat with Jimmy Butler would have been an absolute bitch for everybody. But that one got decided last night because, I mean, they'd have to make it to the friggin' NBA finals for him to even. And he's not coming back. He's not coming back. it's pretty noble for him to play out the last three quarters of the torn MCO. We'll give him that. Nobody's ever questioned Jimmy Butler's heart, but that's still pretty unbelievable. I'm not about it.

You know that thing. You know that it hurt like hell. We're trying to even jog up and down on that thing being torn. I'm excited for these last couple of play-ins. You think it's going to be Kings, huh? You don't want that. Yeah, yeah, I think Kings. I think Kings bowl.

Do you agree with me, King's Bulls? I hate Caruso being out. Well, he's not out. He's trending up positive. I know, but we just talked about it. Are they saying that so that? Maybe. I think I'd go with you.

I think it's going to be Kings Bulls too. So we'll probably be wrong and it'll probably be Pelicans heat. I mean, these are both total toss-ups. I do think the King's Thunder would be a better series. More entertaining. Fox versus Gildes South Sand. two guys that Kyle Perry couldn't win a national title with facing off against each other.

And then I do think probably, I don't know, is Bull Celtics better than heat Celtics? Without Jimmy. Yeah, without Jimmy. Yeah, I mean, I guess even though Boston beat Chicago by like an average of 20 points in their three games this year.

At least Spoh might come up with some weird defense. Makes them look stupid for one game. Yeah, either way. I'm excited for all of these to get going. Boston feels like a pretty strong bet to find itself in the Eastern Conference Finals once again, though, because if it's Chicago or Miami without Jimmy Butler in the first round and then a young Orlando team or like an untrustworthy Cavs team in the second round, I'd be surprised if the Celtics aren't in the Eastern Conference files. Would you be shocks?

I'd be shocked if they're not in the NBA finals. Who is beating them? I mean, if the Bucks or the Sixers get to the East finals, it means they did something right. You think the Bucks are going to beat the Pacers? We actually did this on that's true. That might be true. I said the Bucks could win a series without Yannis.

The thing is, we just don't know what Yonis's actual status yet. So that's very hard to predict. I'll tell you this I do a show with Tony Island every week and he he did this to his calf right before

and he's like dude he's not you're not coming back they take you in there and you can do hot and cold you do acupuncture and you all this stuff you wake up the next day and it still feels like

a rope is being pulled as tight as it possibly can in your cap and all we know is he was already out he's already been out Kevin. He's already been out. And then we've had a weak leeway and they're

already saying he's out or doubtful that he can start the series. I think they may be playing without him. And it's just going to be like Dame in the old blazer, son. It's a, I know, it's going to be a big test for Doc. How do you make adjustments here? How much is it going to be playing through?

Brooke Lopez, you move Brooke Lopez more to the interior. It's been a lot of Bobby Portis lately. How will Damien Liller get utilized? A lot of big questions there. But Just to go back to Boston real quick, if they do make the East Finals, that'll be six out of eight years. They were in the East Finals. That is amazing. Six out of eight years if they make it this year again to the Eastern Conference Finals.

I'd be shocked if they don't make it there, but I'm not ready to say NBA Finals as a guarantee. But for today, it's kind of hard to make any other choice but them to represent the East in the NBA Finals, is it? We both said Milwaukee before the season, but no Yanis right now. lot of uncertainty. The Sixers still will then be just getting back uncertainty there. The Knicks have guys out. Today it's Boston. You're picking Boston to go to the East to the NBA finals again.

This is the attrition, right? It's a war of attrition. And we said if we're taking guys and we're going to line them up, we're going to say, all right, who do you want for a series? Janus, out, Butler, out, Embeddn, doesn't look like MVP level MB, MB, It's like, okay, so who's next? You know what I mean?

And you know the collection of talent they have in Boston, right? We're just talking about like individual guy that could put a team on his back and win a series against you. Just be that big of a problem. The three biggest challengers, I think the next one, honestly, would be Brunson. Like if you were going to say, who could be the best player in a series? is there anybody else it's not dame it's it's brunson over dame right now for sure yes

yeah big bronson so and mitchell's not healthy either right even though he has been a great playoff performer in the past yes exactly so it's hard to pick him right now too yeah oh i can't wait for all these to get Boston Denver is that both of our predictions

is that that that's like the that's the most popular prediction it feels like the the the kind of the easy prediction right now. I mean, and I would say the one team honestly, I will feel like

if it's not Denver, I think it will be whoever comes out of Clippers' Mavs. Interesting. It is hard to foresee a circumstance. If they were to get Janus back,

it could still be the Bucks, but it's hard to foresee a circumstance of anybody but the Bucs. with Janus pulling it off because you got to remember, Philly's playing them like three weeks from now, right? Like because of the way the bracket's going to break, they're not playing them until, right?

Because if Philly gets through this deal, that's not going to be their matchup. their matchup is going to be the winner of the bucks and the pacers. But now you're three weeks into it. How's Embed looking in three weeks? Could be better. Could be worse. Could be out.

Yeah. Hard to know. Impossible to know. As we just find out with Butler and all these other guys going down, you don't know. Yeah, but there's a reason both Boston and Denver are prohibitive favorites. Yep. You know. And Boston doesn't, it would get the crack that they didn't get at him last year.

when it was Miami instead. So they get to make that right, if that's the way it plays out. It's going to be fun. We are going to be doing a bunch of shows. We will be able to reconvene on Monday night after game two of the Lakers Nuggets series. And there's going to be three games on Monday night.

So we'll be doing a show on Monday night. We'll also be doing a show in conjunction with Fandual TV. So people are going to be able to watch on Fandual TV, a portion of the mismatch on Tuesday morning, as well as we're going to kind of do that throughout the playoffs. So it's all going to be getting going. We got the two more play-in games tomorrow night. I'll be rooting for the Kings.

Kevin will be rooting for his beloved pelicans. And then we'll get to all the rest of the games, starting at noon on Saturday, Orlando, Cleveland. Oh, yeah. And then it's just going to be wall-to-wall. I absolutely love the first round because it's just a million games going on. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. And Kevin, I'll talk to you next week.

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