The Mismatch - Spurs vs. Knicks. Youth vs. Experience. The NBA Finals Are Here!

Episode Date: June 2, 2026

Verno and Jacoby are back to break down how a remarkably poised Spurs squad knocked off Oklahoma City in seven—then turn their full attention to the Finals. They dig into the tactical chess match of stopping Victor Wembanyama, why Josh Hart is the Knicks' X-factor, and whether Mitchell Robinson can be effective with a busted finger. Plus, the regular-season history between these two teams, MVP odds, and why New York City is already losing its mind before tip-off. (00:00) Welcome to The Mismatch! (2:14) Dissecting the WCF–What impressed you most about the Spurs-Thunder series? (4:24) Is the discourse toward Chet warranted? (17:24) Western Conference team building: How will teams deal with the Spurs and Wemby? (20:46) Confidence is contagious for the Spurs: Rookie Dylan Harper plays like a veteran (27:35) Knicks are underdogs even though they breezed through the ECF (30:33) What we learned from the Spurs-Knicks regular-season matchups (34:10) Keys to win for the Knicks: Josh Hart (45:12) Wemby and Brunson are the betting favorites for Finals MVP (47:48) What really happened to Mitchell Robinson and his broken pinkie? (53:53) Changing of the guard in the NBA: Spurs' youth over Knicks veterans (1:00:23) The Knicks are giving Gotham something to cheer about The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming.  Please visit https://fanduel.com/playwithaplan.com to learn more about the resources and helplines. Protect your summer today at WeatherTech.com Leave us a message on our Mismatch Voicemail line! [phone] Hosts: Chris Vernon and David Jacoby Producers: Stefan Anderson and Jeff Shearin Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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us every week from the ranger.com is Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. Verno, I have news. Tomorrow evening, after producing an episode of Game Over to preview the NBA finals, I will be traveling to San Antonio. What? I will be in San Antonio on Wednesday evening for Game 1 of the NBA finals, and I will not be going to the game because I can't afford it. You surely you can get a media pass.

Come on, or Rich Paul can look you love. I'm not asking for any favors or media passes. I like watching with the announcers. I have to like take notes and stuff. I like getting the information. You know what I mean? And if I were to get in, I would get into the cheapest price. That'd be so far away.

It wouldn't even be fun. Hold on. You're going to be in San Antonio and not go to the game? It's like $2,000 to go to the game. The worst seats in the house. You're Dave Jacoby. Come on, man. you want me to call my guy?

You don't have a guy. Victor, Gwen Benjamin. Can't miss your basket out of here. Victor, Winemima. This episode of The Mismatch is presented to you by WeatherTech. Let's face it, buying for dad is always a bit of a guessing game. He's not dropping hints and quote unquote, I don't need anything is what he always says that it's not helpful.

But there is something he'll add. actually use, and that is WeatherTech. Get him a gift card, or if you know what he needs, a cargo liner, floor liners, sea protectors, or the cup foam. It's premium protection built to last, and it beats another tie or coffee mug. This Father's Day, take an easy win.

Visit weathertech.com to secure your gift today. All right. So it is going to be San Antonio versus New York in the NBA finals. That happened by virtue of the Spurs, in fact, winning a game seven on the road against Oklahoma City. What impressed you the most about San Antonio winning game seven on the road against the reigning two-time MVP and reigning NBA champions? Just the poise, the maturity and the poise of the Spurs showed.

it's been well documented. This is their first playoff run for everybody, pretty much, except for a couple role players in Dyer and Fox. And they looked like the calmer team, the better coach team, the more organized team, and they just felt like they were poised and mature in a way that I expected the thunder to be, especially at home.

That was the most impressive thing about it. One of the things that I talked about leading into the playoffs, every successive round that Oklahoma City played, and I talked about it for the last two years. Can you not give up a ton of points off of turnovers? And they gave up three turnovers for seven points in the first quarter, a quarter that they won, okay? So a quarter that they won, but they gave up seven points off of turnovers in that first quarter. they gave up to the rest of the basketball game.

Shocker. That is, it is, it's, it's one of the only formulas. We know that over a fifth, sometimes a fourth of the thunder's point come off of live ball turnovers. If you, and how many times have we talked about when we're talking about the series? What are the weaknesses? What are the weaknesses that can be exposed? And you saw, especially in when you were having to play a ton of half court basketball,

it was Gildes Alexander and then who was going to come along for the ride with him, especially in the absence of two other playmakers. And he's looking around. And certainly one of the guys that you expected to be able to come along for the ride with you was totally invisible. I feel horrible for Chet after listening to the discourse for the past two days. Like I just don't know what I don't know how he gets through the next three months before the season starts. Like you just got to, you've got to tune out. That's your only, your only chances to tune out.

And, uh, or I mean, you got to travel and go see monks. No. I think that's the only other thing. Different monks. You've got to, you've got to dribble up a mountain with a basketball. You've got to train with the Navy SEALs underwater. Do you see that one today? Yeah, yeah.

Training with the Navy, I mean, it's the only thing you can do. This has to be, this has to be an origin story. That's the only way you can frame it. You have to say, that was the worst moment of my life. That was the worst basketball game I could have ever played. I froze. That will never happen again as long as I live. I'll go one of 50, but I'm never going O for O, the rest of this.

after the first quarter. It did feel like that dunk in the first quarter was the most significant dunk, possibly in Western Conference Finals history. Really? A maiming. I feel so bad for Chet, honestly. I mean, he just. Do you really? I really do.

I really do. I just like, he was so clearly rattled and just he just felt like he just wanted to like go home at like half time. Just like sneak out the side door or something. It was crazy. But like, you know, I think the next question that you have here is important, and I'll ask it. Because how would you react to the chat performance if you were Sam Presti? You know, time is very beneficial when it comes to something like this, because I am one that would absolutely overreact. All right.

You know what I mean? God rest his soul. Jerry West used to go to a place called Ronnie Grizani's, an Italian restaurant in Memphis, Tennessee. And fans would regularly either call in or email my radio show. This is when he was general manager of the Grizzles. And he would go to Ronnie Grzani's, and he would order his wine, and he would sit at the bar, and there would just be a random fan next to him. And the random fan would come up and be like, Jerry, that was a tough one tonight.

He'd go, this team's never going to win shit with Powell Gasol. Because he would get so mad, right? And then cooler heads would prevail and he'd calm down. But he was one of those like mega competitive like, oh God, he could make a rash decision at any moment kind of guy. I'm more wired like that. I would make the rash decision. I would forget that I won the championship with this guy literally a year ago. And I would probably be like, you know, his contract's about to kick in.

And that was the most gutless thing I've seen in a long, long time. It's going to be hard for me to even look at him. I mean, and so I would overreact. Sam Presti is much more measured. you know, if you were, because, and this is why I say time is the benefit. You take a step back to Kobe. And if I told you, hey, I've got a guy that's under 24 years old or 24, whatever he is, he's been second in defensive player of the year.

He's been all NBA and he's an NBA champion. You would be like, who's not building around that? Yes. You know what I mean? Yes. Right? It's all context because obviously, but I understand the other side of it, which is you're going to have to deal with that guy for a long, long time. More than likely, that's probably who you're going to have to face in order to get to the next level. And that is a very unique, awful problem for him.

And I would dread them meeting up again. I don't know what Wembe hates him. Hates him. He, like, really hates him. And I just feel like it's always going to be torture. I'd almost like just rather be in the Eastern conference. He could probably have an amazing career. Yeah, you know what I'm his agent.

I'd be like, please, if you're moving him, move him to the east. He could be all NBA, all everything, Mr. everything. And then he wouldn't, you wouldn't have to think about it until the finals. But I would say this. I would overreact. I doubt Sam Presti will. I would not. And I think that if you are the Oklahoma City Thunder, you know, you takes a few days to breathe, right?

There are a lot of questions to be asked and answered, but you take some time to breathe. And I really think it is as simple as we were without our second best player, right? And I think that a lot of people focus on J. Dub and A.J. Mitchell's lack of offensive creation. But J. Dub is also another defensive piece that you can use against Wemby. I'm not saying he's a Wemby stopper, but he can help. He could shade off of somebody. He's a smart, quick, strong defender that I think would have helped against Wemby. And Mitchell has turned into this, like, real win.

In the non-shayment, it's like, he's kind of give the offense over to him. Like, he can really score and create for himself. And I think that we talk so much about Oklahoma City's depth, but even Oklahoma City cannot survive losing their second and third creators. You just cannot. Because then you're asking Chet to create. And Chet is a finisher. He's got a turnaround, but he's not a guy that you could just like, like,

towns you could kind of give to at the end of the clock and to say, hey, man, like get yourself a bucket. That's just not Chet Holmgren and especially not Chet Hongren against Wembe, especially not Chet Hongren when he's not surrounded by shooting against a defense that's just ready for him. Well, and that, and thus the Wembe Nama problem because I think it is a totally fair and reasonable, not excuse, but rather a reason as to why, like, We've talked about this a lot. We push guys into, because of the contracts that they signed,

we push them in, we elevate them to be able to, you've got to perform and you've got to win for me now. I don't care that you're not the typical age of the guys that win in the NBA. And the issue becomes when a young player, it's kind of like when a young player like Wembe comes along, I fear that that becomes a bar that is wildly unfair, right? There are going to be college football coaches that lose their jobs because an AD looks around and be like, Kurt Signetti turned around Indiana in two years.

You know what I mean? Like, look at what he's, well, that can't be the bar, right? You know what I mean? Like that can't be what we compare. you against is my point. And the same thing goes with Wenbanyama. And that's why I say, like Chet, though this stuff moves fast, he's still a young player. He's still a young player in the NBA.

But the expectations go up greatly as soon as you put your name on that $200-something million contract, and we know that that contract starts kicking in next year. Now we don't, we don't have time. Like, we got to be able to win with you. Yes. Because we're the, we're paying you the money now. Like, we're not, we're not paying you the money in three. Like, we are paying you the money in three years.

But like, the checks start clearing next year. And so you've got to be good enough to do it. It's when you have these high draft picks that are inevitably tracked for that max, if they achieve the certain, they hit the, the stations. Like, he is all NBA. You know what I mean? He is the second of defensive player of the year. He is a guy that is a no-brainer max contract at the time.

And then a game happens like game seven, and you're looking at the contract and you're saying, huh, he's going to have the same max contract as like, you know, some of the MbPs. You know, he's going to get paid the same. It's not fair to say, but like, you know, Wembe's going to extend the same deal. And, you know, and Yokic is older, so he gets paid more.

And Shay's older, so he gets paid more. But they're still getting like a similar percentage of the cap. And then you wonder, like, is our high draft picked, is our guy that we love so much and we loved his fit on this roster, the right guy to dedicate hundreds of millions of dollars to in years and years and years of time. And I would have done it 100 times out of 100 at the time, so I can't blame them for the decision,

but you do look at it on a morning, like Sunday morning, you're like, man, this hasn't even started kicked in yet. All right, how about this one? Do you, if you're in the war room with Oklahoma City, and you're talking about the future of the franchise. You know, are you more likely to be at the table going, guys, we did not have Jalen Williams, we did not have A.J. Mitchell. If we would have had them, we would have won.

Yes. So we can't make any rash decisions based upon what just took place because we did not have our roster. Yes, this is a. that we put out was still outstanding, but it wasn't our roster. And in the end, we benefited from health last year. This is the way this goes. It's the Battle of Atrition.

Aaron Gordon got hurt. Tyree Taliburton got hurt. Like, that's the story of every team, you know? And the Pacers were there, maybe because O.G. And Anobi wasn't available last year. Maybe the Knicks would have been in the finals a year ago. Like, but that's the story of this stuff. But it also has to guide your.

decision making and sometimes teams make, uh, unwise decisions by saying, by projecting, hey, if we would have been healthy, we would have been just fine. Or maybe they say, you know what, patience is a virtue here. And if we would have been healthy, we would have been fine. So like making any kind of rash decisions on the core of this team would be a colossal mistake. A huge mistake. And they have, they have some like accounting things they have. have to do sort of like, you know, they have some, I'll be like, let's just get done what we

absolutely have to, but keep this roster core, and maybe we can marginally improve on some shooting. But like, if we get everybody back, they spent basically, I want to say what, like 70% of the regular season without J-dub and they were the number one seed. He was compromised throughout the entire playoff run. They won game five at home without those two creators that I was talking about. And they also did so because Deeran Fox didn't look like himself, you know? And Harper didn't look like himself at points during the series.

Like health is so important and we're going to get to the Knicks. But one of the reasons they won 11 straight playoff games is because everybody's available and healthy. Right. And I do wonder if you're in that room, would you say, look, the core is the core. And we have Shay Gilles, Alexander, and we have Jalen Williams, and we have Chad Holmgren, and then we build out around that. So we've got to figure out Hart and Steve. We got to figure out Caruso.

We got to figure out Case on Wallace, Doris. But those are the interchangeable pieces to build around. But we have decided the three big money guys are Gildes Alexander, Jalen Williams, and Chet Holmgren. And then we're going to build out around that. You would say that's the right thing. And frankly, one of those guys wasn't available for this. So it's an unfair. grade.

They didn't draft Shea. They drafted the other two. They developed the other two. And I always like it. If you're going to have, I call it the one three five, if you're going to pay three guys, big, big money, I like them to be a primary ball handler, a wing that can score and defend, and a big that can finish and defend. And they've got that. And I'm not

overreacting at all to losing the conference finals without your second best player. If you take the Carl Anthony Towns off the Knicks, this looks like a different postseason. Yeah. How does it affect Western Conference team building that the Spurs won that game seven and they are the representative? We've said, you know, going back to, I guess, you know, the last run where a team won multiple was the Warriors. And then everybody said, oh, we got to have shooting.

And obviously you had this three point revolution and everything that took place with that, right? You got to be able to match them from the three point line. you saw teams build like that. And then we have seen over successive years say, oh, the Celtics won. You need big wings. That's what you need. And then the,

and then all the nuggets won. You better be able to deal with Yokin's because that's what you're going to. Timberwolf speaking it out. I do. But I, right, but I do wonder about this. Are we done? And this is instructive with the draft coming up.

Also, are we done are we done drafting and team building with the champion in mind? This is now going to be eight straight unique champions.

So it does feel to me that the idea of we're going to have to deal with blank in order to get to where we want to be is a fool's errand. But I mean, do you think the same? San Antonio being there.

Let's just talk Western Conference. Sure. Sure. Do you think San Antonio being there this year is different than the conversation we were having a year ago about this is the team you're going to have to deal with for the next five years if you want to get to where you want to get? Like is the Spurs one different? Yes. Then even Oklahoma City. because, again, it feels prisoner of the moment

because a year ago, we were just saying that was going to be the dynasty. It was the Nuggets, and then it was the Celtics, or in reverse, and then it was the thunder, and then now it's the spurs. The difference with this one is, and who knows what's going to happen in the finals, right? Is when Minyama is wildly underdeveloped as an NBA asset, like as a basketball,

as an effective basketball player, he's in his third year, he missed a lot of time last year, and you can see the potential, especially offensively, he still just sort of like uses his height to get baskets. You know what I mean? And eventually it's going to be his height and his skill and his wisdom and his know-how. And that just comes in time. You're not your best player when you are in your third year.

Sheikil just Alexander last year, peak, right? Yokic two years ago, peak. Tatum and Brown, both peak when they win the championships. We're talking to 27, 28, 29 years old, right? which might be a little older, I don't know. But this guy's 22, and he's still growing and learning quickly. That's why I think it's different this year. And also Castle.

Castle's in his second year. Harper's in his first year. They're all getting better. Like none of them are within four years or five years of their peak. Think about that. Well, let's speak on the Harper thing. You know, we started this show by talking about what we were most impressed with. at no point, at no point did Dylan Harper appear to be a rookie.

Nothing about his performance was like a rookie all the way down to protecting Stefan Castle from a crash out on Alex Caruso. Like that is what a vet does. That's a vet move. What he did. He plays like a veteran. And I'm watching that game. And look, I love Castle too. The Harper thing is downright scary when you think about how he conducts himself on a basketball court at his age and what he is going to become. Because he is amazing. And it is so wild that history will look back and go, Hold up. He was fourth in rookie of the year.

Yeah. And we're about to have this NBA draft that everybody's bonkers over in like three weeks. We so vastly underrated last year's draft. We really did. We really did. 36 against the Celtics on the road. Concanipple broke the rookie three point scoring record and led the league in three points. and Cooper Flagg won rookie of the year.

Like those were the top three. And this guy who was fourth in rookie of the year voting, this guy looks like he's going to be a staple on all NBA teams and Team USA for like the next 15 years. Don't forget, Con looked like a rookie in those playing games. He looked like a rookie. Dylan Harper doesn't look like a rookie in these games. In a game seven on the road, he did not look like a rookie at all.

If he went one for two and didn't shoot after the first quarter and sort of shrunk into himself and lost all aggression, like Chet did, I would understand it because he was playing on Rutgers last year. It was shocking how built for it all of them were. It's crazy. Champany knocking down. Like this, to be in that game, in that environment with those stakes at that age. And nobody looked like the game was too big for them. Not for Vassell, not for Champany, not for Fox, not for Wemby, not for Harper. Like none of them looked like they were overtaken by the moment.

The confidence is contagious too. You know that the Wimby dunk early and then Fox looked like himself early and just like they started knocking down a couple shots. It starts to be like, oh, oh, we got a lead on the road. Like this is our game to lose. And I felt like that the confidence is contagious. And it started with the good start and really got them going. They felt like they didn't feel like they had to battle back against a loud crowd and a surging offense from the thunder.

And they took care of the ball like you mentioned earlier, which was everything. It was a great game. Look, and I think I agree with you that this is different, simply because of Wembe's age. And so when we go back to the, yes, it probably has not been the right thing to do to build with the champion in mind. because the champion changes every single year. And look, if we're being fair, there's a huge what if.

If Halliburton doesn't tear his Achilles in a game seven, maybe then we're looking and going, well, the answer is having a bunch of random ball handlers. Getting the ball out, never setting up your offense. You've got to keep that in mind at all times. And also, like, I think we're going to get into the finals preview. We'll do that shortly. is you also got to keep your eye on this series

and see what the Knicks do with Wembe. Right, maybe then you look at it. Maybe it's like, well, maybe they need a J-dub. They need somebody like Ananobe. Maybe everyone's going to look at like, you know what? Let's talk about this. Do you remember the? Oh, oh, oh, oh, this is great.

So, I, 20 second time out. So the guy from the giant from Michigan, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's probably going, shit, I'm going to go in the top of him now. Go first. I'm going to first, yeah. Right, right.

But to your point, if O.G. and Ovi is the best possible defender for Victor Wimbunyama, then everybody 6'8. And with the long wigsman going, let's go. Exactly. Because that's one thing I think about sort of building for this team, which is the question, is let's see what happens in this one. You know what I mean? Because the Knicks are sort of like uniquely positioned to give this roster problems.

I really think that. And I remember there was this one stretch where they played in Phoenix and they played in L.A. And they put Dylan Brooks on them. Again, no one person covers Wemby. But they kind of had Dylan Brooks push him off his spot. And they had Marcus Smart push him off his spot. And I don't know if they lost both the games. I think they did.

But it was like, oh, has Wemby been figured out? It's like, no, Wemby hasn't been figured out. But there's more ways to guard Wembe than take your biggest, strongest guy, in this case, Hartinstein, and just have him lean on them the whole time like he didn't. game two. Yeah, because sometimes in the past we have seen Caruso on Yolk Williams or Jalen Williams on Yokic, right? Remember the one that was coming off the bench? Or you have seen towns, right? Did a great job on Yokic during that series with Minnesota and Denver when Minnesota won. And so

it is fascinating. And Gobert. Gobert was amazing this year on Yolkits. Right. And you could, but you could very well look at the Wembe's situation. and go, you know what? Actually, that's not right because he's a big mismatch for a big guy. You don't need bigger guys. You need these guys that are big, strong wings with seven foot two wingspan. That's what you need because that's what then they can get underneath them and give him a problem. We'll see.

But to your point, it looks now after that, you're like, man, you need big guys. like you're going to have to be dealing with this dude for the next 10 years. You better five. And so like a DiMara's draft stock depends on this NBA finals. We'll see. Right? He's probably going to be fine either way just because you're sitting there going, we still need something to deal with the seven foot five guy, right?

Which leads us to talking about the upcoming NBA finals, which I know you could not be more excited for. Are you shocked? that when the line came out, San Antonio's basically a two to one favorite. It's moved a bit towards the Knicks since it opened it two to one. But I am shocked. That's because they took Chalala's bet.

Yeah, they took Chalemay's bet. And Mitch broke his pinky, which we'll get to. But, yes, I'm absolutely shocked. I knew the Knicks would be underdogs if they made the finals. But it's sort of like what you were saying about Detroit, the entire regular season, like, well, what else do they have to do? Like, they're on a historic heater where they're just demolishing teams.

They've lost two games in the playoffs by, like, last second C.J. McCollum shots. And every other game, outside of game won against the Cavs, which is overtime they won by 11, has been like breezy 20-point wins where they're up by 30 at some point. Because I could understand a level of, if you just wanted to tell me, that's just disrespect for the Easter conference. People think the Easter conference isn't very good. and so they're unimpressed with what they've done, except for the fact of the margins.

And the calves are no slouches. Like the Sixers, it killed them. You know, the Hawks, young, undeveloped, they had no,

they had no size, right? A Coro is not going to beat, not going to, a Kongwu. But like, the calves, going into that series,

I was concerned. I was concerned. They've got talent. They've got talent. But you all, but if we're being fair, none of those teams, had a chance in hell of winning a title.

In an alternate world, I could see the cabs winning a title. No, you cannot. James Hardin is their second. Fair. Is their second? Fair. Fair. You can't see them winning.

Come on. Yeah, I mean, so that's the thing. Those teams were incapable of, and the level of spurs respect is that was the chance. I mean, it was a 60 win team that they just beat eight times. They beat that team eight times and they won 60 games, which is insane. I would hate as much as you can't stay in one. I mean, if you're Oklahoma City, I mean, it's literally the one team. You dominate everybody else.

And then this team has just totally had your number. I'm glad that the Knicks are playing the Spurs for a few reasons. But one is like I'm really tired of like the grifting, flopping discourse. And I'm glad this is going to be more about like, oh, wow, look at we've got a seven foot six guy who's amazing. instead of like, who can create more fouls, Brunson or Shea? And then we have to look at these clips on X every day. You know what I mean? Like, I'm glad that's over.

Thank you. Here's the big question. All right. So we are, I am also surprised at the odds of this. The regular season matchups, do you think anything matters from them? Yes. I went back as well. I went back as well.

all of them today. All right. So December 16th was a 124, 113, Nick's win. That's the Cup King. Wemby played, yeah, he played 24 minutes. Came off the bench in that dream. Yeah, seven for 17. OG was great. Brunton was great. Some things about that, though. So there's a, right. Do they matter? No. It's completely like, I'm telling you, like, Colick is playing in these things. Like, Dio Ward is playing in these things. Like, and Wendy's coming off the bench. So they're not apples to apples. But in that Cup game. Mitchell Robinson had 10 offensive rebounds. 10. 15 rebounds in 18 minutes. 10 offensive rebounds.

Now, Pinky Gate is upon us. I've got theories. But it shows just how important it is to have another big that Wemby has to deal with, especially in the offensive boards. Because so many of those offensive boards are because someone gets past their man and then they see Wemby and they have to throw the ball up in the rafter. and wimby jumps in the air, but that exposes the help side rebounding.

So if he leaves Mitch to contest a shot, which is what he has to do because the defense is broken down, it just leaves one of the best offensive rebounders with very little in his way to get the rebound and put it back. Also makes him work on the defensive end over and over again. Because if you don't work, you're not getting to keep the possession. He's creating a second opportunity for his team.

Yes. It was enormous. December 31st, the New Year's Eve game. That was the Spurs win. Wemby had 31 and 13 and 24 minutes. Champagne had 36. The Knicks had a 45.1 first quarter. The Spurs had a 41.4th quarter.

But again, like you were saying, there was no heart. There was no Robinson in that game. D.O.R. started. How many threes did he shoot? 13 threes. Mo Diwara. Like I'm going to say 90% of the people watching the NBA finals game

one of no idea who Mo Diawar is. I'm telling you that. And Champagne had 36 in this one. Yeah. In that New Year's Eve game, McCuller, Yabooselli, Huckporty, and Clarkson all played. And Diawara started in that game. And this is also, the final score is 134, 132.

But I was rewatching. it. It's a five-point game and Kelton Johnson is celebrating with the Spurs bench and Brunson runs over and grabs the ball and hits a three. So this isn't like a nail-biter. They had the game in hand

and Johnson was celebrating. And Brunson just made this amazing play. He's like he hit like the crazy from the corner fade away three, but the time was like there's just nothing left and they're down to. And then the last matchup, March 1st, this is interesting because it was a, the Nix

smacked them around, 114 to 89. Whenby played 34 minutes and you go and look, that was the Spurs lineup that they're fielding now. Yeah. I mean, it's the one game. Yeah. Yeah, it's a one game that they did play against the Knicks where when you go and look back at that game, March first, it's Champany, Vassel, or Vesel, Wembe, Yama, Castle,

Fox. And Dylan Harper, Kelton Johnson, Luke Cornyette off the bench. I mean, like, it was their lineup. There's two things from this one that I think are important. Because, again, like, all these games are regular season games. And don't forget, they were also on an 11-game win streak. This was a Sunday afternoon on ABC. So this is, they're the highest team in the league.

They're coming to the Garden. This is a three-letter network. I think, because this is March. This is post-Super Bowl, sort of win the attention on Sunday's turns from football to basketball. And two things happen in this game that I think are very important keys for the series. Wembe went one for seven from three. I love that. If he's taking seven threes,

that's seven times he didn't go towards the basket, get his feet in the paint or shoot in mid-range. And Josh Hart went one for six from three. These are going to be key pressure points in the finals. Josh Hart, knocking down his shots is going to be a, it's going to be a flow chart pivotal moment for Mike Brown in this one.

Also, a lot like it was for, you know, Lou Dork, right? Yeah. It's like this is, especially if, you know, did you see the Josh Hart comments about, I'm paraphrasing, but it says a lot about me if they've got the defensive player of the regarding me. It does say a lot, Josh. I love that. I love that. I love that.

They're keying on me. They're putting the best defender in the world on me. Yeah. They need to do. Yeah. I love Josh Hart. I love Josh Hart too. Anyway, but by the way, that was a little odd because.

Bridges led them in field goal attempts in that game. And points, 25. And that was the game that Diawara took 13.3. There was that one. Jesus. It was. That's the one. It's goofy because they were ahead. They went on this, they went on a 26 to 2 run in this one.

And I remember I was so excited for this game. And it's kind of like all the Western Conference Finals games outside of 1 and 7. It was kind of so, you get so excited, you know, part of your day. You sit down in front of the TV and you're ready for this exciting game. which is kind of bizzled. Yeah. When we were just talking about heart and his ability and maybe, you know, they found something at one point in game one against Cleveland where they went to sham it

and they said, all right, if you're not making them, then we're going to space out the floor, right? The heart thing, if they are going to deploy on Wembeiyama and they are just going to say, you know what, go ahead, shoot us out of the game, but we're not going to use Wemby on Towns because Towns is going to be all the way away from the basket because pounds is going to space that's the intent. If Wimby's on

Towns, I am trying to pull. Yeah. Yes. So somebody then is just a you know, is a go ahead. Right? The same way that they have done where Alex Caruso lit them up. He had what,

30 something points and it was like, all right, bro, if Caruso is just going to make everything work, I'm not coming all the way up there. to deal with you, Alex Caruso. And so go ahead, have fun, shooting as much as you want to. Like, that is the Hart or Clarkson, Shamming. Whoever you want to say, right? He'd be the next move.

He's, what is he, 11 for his last 12 from 3? But Hart has experience with this. This isn't not new for Josh Hart in the New York Nick uniform. And he knocks him down a lot. And a lot of times he uses that space. If you're open for three, you also have an open line to the basket. So he uses that space to drive and kick and put pressure on the defense. The thing about just saying, like, oh, Josh Hart missed two, three.

So let's put in Landry Shamet. And Landry Shamet has grown on me as a Nick fan. He doesn't finish in transition like Hart does. He doesn't pass and playmate for others like Hart does. He doesn't take charges like Hart does. He doesn't get offensive rebounds like Hart does. He doesn't do so many other things. Like it's not just as simple as like, oh, well, Josh Hart missed a couple threes.

let's put in sham it. Like, I don't know if that is good for the Knicks because of everything else that Josh Hart does. And the fact that Josh Hart has dealt with being sort of ignored on defense so many times that he has counters for it. I believe in Josh Hart. Well, and it feels like he has outsized importance because there's always the guy. Dude, it's going to have the spotlight on him.

Oh, I promise you, Wednesday night, one of the first five possessions, Josh Hart is going to have a swing, swing, wide open three. Or Brunton drives and kicks. It's going to happen in the first four or five possessions. And like, if he steps into it confidently and just knocks it down, it does that twice in the first quarter, you really have to consider everything if you're the Spurs. All right. How are we feeling about towns and in the case that they do just decide, you know what, we want

Wembenyama being able to stop. We want him to be able to step up to when Brunson comes around and gets to the that like elbow level jumper, that's not available to him. He's not going to be going all the way to the rim. And so he's just going to have to knock down threes. But what we're going to do is we're going to have a docket defender on him out there. And then we're going to make him problem solved. But Wemby's not, Wemby's not going to be out at the three point line.

So go ahead. You can have towns out there, but that's not who's going to be guarding him. It feels like at that point, town's super has to take advantage of whoever they deployed, because they don't have a natural fit. There's no one else. Fox can't cover him. Champany can't cover him. It's got to be Castler for sell.

If you're saying, we want Wembe to roam in the middle and help, that's what they always do with him. It's what I would do too if I was Mitch Johnson. But I think the Knicks counter for this, and I've spent so much time thinking about this, is Brunson's really good at getting to the basket and finishing for someone his size.

You don't have to me to tell you that. Like the way he can pivot and upfake and all that stuff, He can also operate from the elbows, as you mentioned, and Bridges can really operate in the mid-range too. And when you have Wemby helping on mid-range shots instead of at the basket, you can use the dunker spot. You can have Josh Hart cut.

You can pass behind him and finish in ways that you can't if he's just... Because he can defend on one side of the basket and get the rebound on the other side of the basket in the same shot. Or defend an offensive rebound on the other side of the basket at the same shot. But if you pull him out a little bit further,

10 feet from the basket, 12 feet from the basket, it opens up the opportunities behind him. on the offensive glass and on cuts from a dunker spot, which I think that they can employ. Because the spurs are kind of small. Like, who's their four? Say it. Right.

Castle. Yeah. He's their four. You know? And I think that can be, that can be exploited. Well, and the interesting thing is going to be towns and where he makes his bones in this series

because he is kind of like, it, you like, you like to be able to, to play him at five and then say Wemby's got to come out here. But that is going to be dependent upon who that other spot is and whether or not because I'm like you. I don't want

to have to play without Josh Hart. But like the only way to get Wemby away from the basket is to have another guy that can reliably knock down shots. And that could be Shannon. I think we always talk about these matchups, especially in these big series.

Everybody gets cross-match and transition and the switch. on picks and like it doesn't end up like as neat as we all talk about it like but um one of the real keys is going to be where town scores because let's say he's got Baccell on him and I love that matchup for crawling at three towns all right well is he going to shoot threes because I don't love that him shooting threes over a little guy okay is he going to post up because wimby's going to help if you post up like it's just too slow it takes too long for him get to the ball. And another thing that Towns is good at is very slow, long step, ugly-ass drives, but finishing tough shots. Like, that's one thing he does. Like,

these long, he never crosses you over and spins back the other way. Like, it's always just these, like cuff the ball like a football, take long, slow strides, bump into the guy, pretend you got fouled, and then hit some really hard angle off the glass. But I think that Wembeenama will be involved on both those drives and post-ups in ways that will be hard. on towns. So he's going to have to pass out of doubles or even like soft doubles that he sees from them. And I honestly just, I want Wembe to cover towns because I think that opens up everything else.

I think that's it. Well, then you get, they broke in the spurs. Whoever is that other player has to be able to shoot. If it's, if it's OG, if it's Jalen, if it's, if it's bridges all day long. It's just Josh Hart or Landry Shammit. That's going to be a key flexion point in the series. And again, like I said, in the first five possessions, Josh Hart is going to get a wide open three.

He's going to take it. And right there is going to be a huge shot for the Knicks. And then he could probably do it with the next possession too. You just have to, you have to have something that draws him away from the basket. And on the other end, you know, the people have put up the stats throughout. And it's interesting because he is,

he is a big guy like 6-8 with the long wing span and he's strong as a Knox that OG and Ninobe has been a problem for Wenbenyama. And so that is, It's fascinating not only in the context of the series, but also like, you know, as we call back to what we were talking about in team building, that it might change people's idea of how you become best equipped to deal with a guy like this. Mm-hmm. And this, and OG, I think is a, in, there's like two ways to cover Wembe.

Like one is with someone with size, like a Hartnstein. And I think another is someone is, O.G is perfectly built for. strong, great defender, works hard, push him off his spot, but tall enough and long enough that when Wemby goes up, you're not going to block his jump shot, but you can make him feel you when he rises up in the air, put a hand in his face. Like, oh, geez, long enough to do that,

whereas, like, the Dillon Brooks and Market Smarts aren't that big. Right. But, you know, it doesn't always end up this clean. Like, it's going to be, Ananoby's going to have to switch on a pick and roll, and then Wemby's rolling, and Brunson's in front of them, and now we got towns kind of, trying to help from the side.

And man, let me tell you something that's terrifying for me, Verno. It hasn't been a real problem, but they haven't faced that much adversity in these playoffs so far. But man, Carlington Towns just can't get in foul trouble. Because all this stuff I'm talking about,

like, where's the going to score from? Is he going to hit threes? If he gets two fouls, and then Mitch has got a broken hand, so who knows what's going on with him? Like, you could really see Huck Porty in this series. I'm not joking. Like, if Mitch is compromised

and in towns, if Towns gets in foul trouble, things get really, really hard from there. Because he can't help himself. He just can't. He can't. He cannot help himself. Right. He can't. This episode is brought to you by Activia.

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Visit Activia.ca for more details. Do you, have you looked at the MVP odds? No. Wembe's minus 180. Why would that be the case if they're like minus 160 to win the whole thing? Little odd, well, the, yeah, not only are they. I can't see a world in which Wemby's not the MVP if the Spurs win. They're close to, yeah, they're.

close to minus 200 to win in some of the markets. And the other thing is the most likely outcome when I went and looked at like the series prices was spurs in five games, which was totally shocking to me. Well, no, that five would be at home. Oh, you're right. You're right. I'm sorry. You're right.

Five would be at home. But I just told that's a gentleman sweep. That just doesn't seem right to me. That doesn't feel right. Brunson is plus 210, okay? So the question becomes, if it's not one of those two guys, the next ones are towns plus 2,200, Castle plus 6,000, OG plus 6,000, Fox plus 10,000. I would put a little value on Oji. If there is a world in which he is, is the, the, the, the Igudala to the Cavs LeBron.

It's the Iguado. You know what I mean? Like plus $6,000. Like I don't really like gambling on stuff that doesn't pay off for two weeks. It just like doesn't work for me. But, you know, that's a good value right there. Because I can see a world in which the Knicks win and everyone's getting 20 points a game. So it's like Brunz is putting up 40s.

And OG is the main defender on the impossible alien and limits him. Because don't forget, he had a great game one, had a great game four, had a good six and seven. But like, two, three and three and three. five happened. No, that was a great point about the Iguodala thing, because Iguodala, all of the attention was on LeBron. The same way, O.G. and Ninobe is going to get a outsized spotlight. If, in fact, he is your primary defender for the majority of the time against Victor Wembegama

and can somehow make his life hell. Yes. And he'll be the, he'll get the credit, but it's going to be a group project. You can't stop Victor Wimbenyama with one person. You cannot do it. You can't. No. Harderstein did an admirable job in game two,

just leaning on him, body blowing, grabbing him, doing all that. But like, you have to team defend to stop victim women. The guy said, but six. Yeah. Obviously now we look to this particular series, and you started off when we were talking about the games that they had played throughout the year, and Robinson and the advantage that he creates for the Knicks,

By making when Benyama work, he is a elite level rebounder. Not only can he help you end possessions on the defensive end, he creates you extra possessions on the offensive end. And you have this just totally bizarre circumstance where the Knicks have had their feet up for some time now. And then this news comes down about him having a broken finger that he has already had surgery on and you said earlier,

you teased that you have theories. What? Don't tell me you stuck it up somebody's butt. Well, no. That's inappropriate. That's an inappropriate. That's their thing. They stick their fingers in each other.

They're in the finals. Leave alone. It's my guys. First of all, I want to just listen with Barry carefully to Mike Brown being asked if it was a basketball-related injury. In game four?

Yeah. No. Yeah. He was not at practice yesterday. Yeah. It was not at practice yesterday and it wasn't in the game. But he would have to. Yeah.

He's trying his best, but he sounds frustrated with this injury. How about him turn into the PR guy and the PR guy? He's like, you got to tell you're like, you got to. He's like, you got to. That's not for me. We'll find out how Mitch hurt his pinky. I'll just tell a personal story that might be relevant. On college, I had a girlfriend, Susan Lee.

We dated. Yeah, she was hot from Queens. Shout to Susan Lee. And we got arguments. I was immature. You know what I mean? This is back before I was a fully realized adult. And we got to an argument at the subway at the West Forest Street Station one time.

And I got mad. and I punched the concrete wall. Guess what? How old were you? Oh, 19, 8, 20, something like that. And I broke my pinky. It's a lot of rage. You had a lot of rage.

Broke my pinky finger. Oh, no. It's called a boxer's fractor. What did Susan say? She walked away. She was upset. Yeah, she just thinks I'm an idiot. Yeah.

She was too good for me. Yeah. She was like a good girl. That was a bad boy. I'm not saying that's what happened with Mitch Robinson. I'm just saying that's what happened to me. And Mike Brown seemed really frustrated with the circumstances of this injury. Are you saying that Mitchell Robinson is going out with your old girlfriend?

I'm not saying that. Susan Lee caused Mitchell Robinson to break his hand? No, no. No, I know that I'm misunderstanding. No, I know she's not going on with Ms. Robinson because she immediately started dating one of my friends after we broke up. She's like, this guy's a psycho. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm just saying like, we'll find out what happened to him.

But I just know one way to break a pinky that's really embarrassing and they would piss off your head coach. I'm not saying that's what happened with Mitch Robinson. I have no idea, not reporting anything. You remember what? You remember what his name did it? The fire extinguisher. You remember that?

Yeah, and so did it. Stademeyer did it on the Knicks. Oh, yeah. With the fire extinguisher. It does happen. It happens. But what's weird is. It's off days.

No, but no, it's, yeah, that's what's weird. That's usually a frustration of the game. I punch the locker, punched the wall, you know, something happens. It happens in baseball with pitchers,

give up home runs all the time. I'm so angry. I don't think, I don't know. But it's also like, I do want to be fair about something. I don't want to speculate about this because it's like irresponsible.

But he did mention that he was like going through mental health struggles during the Cav series. And he like deleted some of his apps and stuff. So I wish him the best physically and mentally. And I want him on the men. Mike Brown was pissed. Pissed. That was, that was concerning. But like, again, the group chats have all said the same thing.

Like, if there is anyone whose game is not affected by a pinky broken on their shooting hand, it's Mitch Robinson. Because, you know, like we said last time, like, you could put a baseball glove on that guy's hand. And he's still going to contest shots and grab rebounds and go the foul line. He's got to be playable, though. Yeah, yeah. But it just, he's got to be playing. I also think it's got to be able to catch the ball. Catch the ball, catch the rebound, put a dunk back, you know, bother when Minyama,

and like maybe go one for four from the line. Or else we're going to see. He's a, no, he could provide a massive advantage. And especially, you know, it calls back to something that you were talking about earlier, which is a guy that can play the dunker spot, a guy that can play with force. But most importantly, a guy that can play if, in fact, inevitably over the course of what could be a long series, Towns has that game where he's unplayable because he's got three fouls in the first quarter.

Exactly. Because if he gets two fouls, if he gets two fouls, it's Mitch. That's the counter, right? Has to be. And if it's not Mitch, you start looking like going small to the scene like a good idea at all. And then you're looking at Huck Porty who's like serviceable. It's a real concern. Yeah.

It is. And OG can get fouls too. They would be smart to sort of work OG in towns and see if they can sort of hang a couple of fouls on them early in the game. That would be smart if you're the game. So I will say just talking about this and talking through it. I have been, I've been very, very high on the Knicks. Also, despite last year's young Thunder team winning it, I generally have believed that

there is a reason that over the course of NBA history, veteran teams and veteran laden teams with full grown men that have been through a lot of different playoff series and have taken their scars end up holding the trophy at the end. That has been the case over, you know, we've had over whatever 80 years of NBA history and you go and look and generally young teams do not come out on top for NBA championships. It is veteran laden teams. But I have been given incredible cause for pause with those odds. Like, I just don't. I don't see it.

It's shocking. I don't see it. It's shocking. If it's a close game, I feel very confident in the Knicks ability to close it out. We've got a guy. I would be stunned if the Spurs wiped them out like it says. It's, I don't see it. I think that this is a tough series for Brunson.

You know, if they're going to, get him involved. It also will. Oh, it's also going to change. Look, Becky Hammond and Draymond got a lot on the line. They really do. They really do. They really do.

You can't win with a little dude being your best dude. They've won 11 straight. And I think that this is a much more spread the ball around, cut off the ball, beautiful game offense than it was under Tibbs. But if it's a close game with three minutes left, we're handing the ball to Brunson. He's dribbling the air out of it and getting a bucket. Like, that's just a pitch they can always throw. And no matter, he just finds a way no matter who's in front of him.

You know, because if castles on towns, Wembe's a heart, like, so wait a second, is that Fox on Brunson? Fox is a capable defender, but could be a little injured, is a little older. I like that matchup. If it's Champany, I like that matchup. Vesel, I think, would be hard with his length, but then you've got who's covering bridges. Like, I think the Knicks pose problems. Wemby always poses problems and Castle's amazing in his own right

and Harper's just an absolute discovery of a basketball player but the Knicks pose problems for this first they really do and I think that's why they gave them problems during the regular season. Broughts they could score on everybody. He really can't. It's stupid.

He can score on everybody. I don't know about Wemby, but if Wimby's in front of him that means there's mismatches other places. Yeah. And I do think that it's going to be fascinating when we talk about how this finals affects the rest of the league. One thing I will say with the two teams that are there, there's a clip that we used several months ago. And you and I were having the discussion and I was thinking aloud as the season was going on.

I was like, you know what? I think the best teams are going to be young, right? That that is, there is a changing of the guard here. and that's because of the finances of the NBA. And there are two very unique things about these teams. You have one team. So maybe it's either going to be you can do this, but one of your best players has got to take a discount.

And that's the way with the new finance of the NBA, which is, as we know, Brunson left a tremendous amount of money on the table. in order to be able to have this team. It's so weird. I mean, he did. Well, look, for many, many years, San Antonio did it. You know, Mono Genoblee and Tony Parker, they did not just take the maximum amount.

And that's the issue if we call back to the Oklahoma City. There was no discount for Jalen Williams. There was no discount for Ched Holmgren. But they all deserve masses. There's no discount for Shegilds Alexander. I'm saying at the time you do all those deals. Right. Of course you do.

But what I'm saying is it might be the only way to pull this off is that what is somebody's got to play for less than market value if you're going to have a bunch of, you know, vets already on the new deals or you're going to have a young team that you have built out vets around them and you've got three of your best players not getting paid all that much money because that gives you the ability to have the requisite amount of talent. Yeah, I mean. But it's just going to be too hard to have the requisite amount of talent if you're paying everybody. If you look at like Austin Reeves, I just think the Lakers are going to regret whatever they give them.

Jalen Dern, I think the pissers are going to regret whatever they give them. And these are like, you know, contenders. Oh, yeah. That's the way it goes with all of these teams, right? Yeah, like you're paying the, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, You're giving max contracts to guys that have not proven to be worth max contracts. Look at all the discourse on Evan Mowgli, for God's sake. And he's been defensive player of the year.

And people are like, yeah, they got to get rid of him. They got to get rid of him. It's, you feel good about giving a max contract to someone who's like top 10 in the ringer 100. You know what I mean? And then beyond that, you're kind of like, well, he's a good second option. You're like, well, he's getting paid $62 million. You know what I mean? I know.

That's not second option money. Well, and look at what, you know, there's been a bunch of stuff about Kaysan Wallace and where he could end up. What's he worth? Like you, I'm just going to say, you're going to see the Kasson Wallace and the I-O Dissune moves of the world. And it's like you can't afford to keep that. Like somebody's going to pay them a fortune in the offseason.

Now, maybe they're not going to be, they're obviously not going to be 40 and 50 million players, but they're going to be getting, people are going to get four year $100 million contract. People are going to be like, what? Yeah. Like that is the price of doing business now. That's the market. Yep. All right. Last thing before we get out of here.

I know you're in L.A. now, but you have been in New York until just today. has it been odd there it's a weird circumstance where they took care of business so early celebrations people on top of madison square garden waving american flags parties everywhere everybody going nuts and then it's like all right now we're just going to watch other teams play basketball for a week like is it a what is the vibe like considering this inordinate an amount of downtime between taking care of business in the Easter conference finals, but waiting for the

NBA finals? It's been a very unique time in the city and their relationship with the Knicks because the enthusiasm is so high. But never has the enthusiasm been so high and the optimism been high as well.

Like there's always a yeah, but is OG hurt, you know, how do they match up against the Celtics? You know, so excited to beat the Sixers. but man, this Celtics team is going to be tough. Like, and then there's always like some injuries or some like, yeah, but about the Knicks. But this is like the city's favorite team playing the best basketball they've played since they were world champions. Like, like even, you know, even in 99 when they went to the finals, like Ewing's not there.

And, you know, and the spurs are so good that there wasn't this level of optimism going into the series. It was a bit like, man, it was so great being an eight-season. and getting to the finals. But now it's like, the whole city's on fire excited about the Knicks. I can really feel it through my kids. Because my kids are not Knicks fans. They're not sports fans.

But they come home every day talking about the Knicks because all their friends are talking about their Knicks and all their friends' parents are talking about the Knicks. And then there's this whole thing sweeping the city of where you're going to watch the game. There's not a bar that's not having a watch party. Central Park is having a huge watch party. Like they're popping up everywhere.

Every single bar is getting a projector and getting audio. Like there's going to be very few people, for myself, they're going to be on their couch watching the games. And the problem is, is game three is on a Monday and game four is on a Wednesday. But game two Friday night, I'll be just coming in from JFK. I think I'm going to go to the Central Park Watch Party where I have an in. You are? I have an in, yeah.

I've got a guy who works there. Shout to Rock. You also live within walking distance. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, the guy's name, shout to him. He works for Summer Stage. Also, the name of a colleague of ours, Rob Mahoney.

I was like, oh. No way. Rob, I swear to God. There's a lot of Rob Mahoney's out there. There's two, yeah, yeah, yeah. It won't be hard to tell the two apart, though. They look very different. But yeah, I'm going to go watch it from one of the watch parties,

so I'll have tales from that when we do our show on Monday. But, like, the city is absolutely on fire. And I think this whole, like, the cops are, like, shutting down the watch parties because of, like, you know, rowdiness or whatever, because people are climbing on billboards. I think that's completely misguided. I think if you're not in New York, what you're missing is like,

this isn't chaos. This is people celebrating and being happy. You know what I mean? Like, we've had, like, riots and protests and real tension in the city in the past decade, but this isn't that. This isn't like...

It's positive. Two sides being separated by cops. You know what I mean? This is everyone's happy trying to ask crazy for Instagram. You know what I mean? It's just happiness. Yeah, it's just like real happiness.

There's a huge... there's a huge difference between positive mayhem and angry. Exactly. And if you're wearing a Spurs jersey, you can walk through the crowd. You're not going to get physically assaulted. You're going to get yelled at. But it's not like, it's not like unruly violent chaos out there. I would not recommend.

I'm telling you, I wouldn't recommend it. What I'm saying is it's not dangerous. I think people get the wrong idea when they see the stupid clips online. You know what I mean? And I don't know if you saw this. The mayor did like an actual, I don't know what mayor. stuff he does. He repealed bedtimes during Nick's games. I saw

that. So kids have like ammo so they can stay up late to watch the games. They had a Jordan Clarkson look-like party today. That was a smart thing. That was a smart PR thing to do. Yeah, he's leaning into it because you don't want to be the mayor that like shut down the watch parties. You know what I mean? Right. So he's leaning into it. They had a Jordan Clarks

and watch party today. Like the momentum has not waned whatsoever. If anything, it is building and crescendoing. And the city will be absolutely on fire. for every single game. And like worst case scenario, I still believe in this team

if they're down 02 going into game three. I still believe. I retweeted that guy yesterday. I'll give him credit where credit is due. Mike Buvice, I think was his name. It said, the New York Knicks are four wins away from their first championship

in 53 years. And the only thing standing in their way is a nine foot tall French chowelan alien. When you put it like that, it doesn't sound great. Maybe that's why it's minus 200. Nine foot tall. Oh, also, and I sent you this, shout out Zodiac GM.

Oh, yeah. You mocked it. Oh, my God. You mocked it. You mocked it weeks ago. Zodiac GM before the playoffs started said there's two teams with A plus Zodiac Synergy, the New York Knicks and the San Antonio Spurs. And here we are with them.

facing off for the Zodiac championship. That changes my position. Absolutely zero. I know. Nixon four. It's going to be sweet. It's going to be sweet. Nixon four.

The odds on that have got to be, oh my God. Nixon four. Unbelievable. Nixon four. Jalen Brunston MVP. City just goes crazy. No one goes to work Thursday or Friday.

This finals is going to be awesome. Yeah. The games, I think the games are going to be good. I'm confident that this is going to win the series. but I don't see, you know, you never know. But I thought the games would all be good with Thunder Spurs, but I think these games will be great. I think they each pose real problems for the other side.

I think the Knicks are going to win too. You know, and who knows? Like, Duce can go three for four. Shammett can go five for six. Alvarado could have three steals and get in a fist fight with Wembeyanama, and, you know, Wembenyama gets ejected. Like, there's just so many weird things that can happen, you know? And the things I'm keying on are Josh Hart being effective on offense

and forcing them to make adjustments on defense and just not letting Wemby rim run. Just keep them outside of the point. Why do you think I think the New York's going to win? Beyond the fact that you're my friend that I want you to be happy. Battle scars. You've got to get their scars. Got to get your scars.

I mean, you've got to get your scars. You got to get your scars. Otherwise, it's two years in a row you don't. Yeah. It's like a, I mean, Verno was never gone down. Yeah, yeah, Scar's dying. If the Knicks.

You've got to guard the scars, like Alexander Scar's guard. That's it. That's it. Yeah, Verno, you could never be wrong two years in a row. It's impossible. So, yeah, Knicks and four. There's, there's no way. Nixon four.

All right. That's going to do it for this episode of the MISF. We are going to be talking about NBA finals. Games by the next time we speak again. Thanks to Jeff as always. is it, Jacob. I'll talk to you later this week.