The Mismatch - Summer League Takeaways, Bright Futures, and the Dame-Harden Sagas

Episode Date: July 14, 2023

Verno and KOC are back home from Las Vegas, and they discuss the top performances from this year's summer league, including those from last year's top picks Chet Holmgren and Jabari Smith Jr., as well as other young standouts like the Lakers' Max Christie and Celtics' Jordan Walsh (04:00). Also, they discuss the latest on Damian Lillard and James Harden before discussing the latest rule changes that will be in effect for next season (45:15). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producers: Jessie Lopez and Jade Whaley Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons from The Ringer, and this is a podcast called The Rewatchables. We have been doing it. Really since 2017, it started with how much we love the movie Heat. We decided to structure a whole podcast with categories, most rewatchable scene. Who won the movie, Apex Mountain, what age the best? But here's the thing. If you want the full archive, you can hear them only on Spotify. For free, by the way.

So make sure to follow the rewatchables on Spotify. Welcome to The Mismatchmatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Thursday night from the ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, a.k. Kevin O. Obama. Kevin O. Conflict.

Kevin O. Candyland. Kevin O. Blesarian. Kevin. Burl. How are you doing tonight, man? Our last Thursday show of the summer. Our last Thursday show of the summer as we will still be doing

one episode of the mismatch every week until we get near the beginning of the season. I'm tired. I'm all. I was always tired after Summer League. I was there from Friday morning until Tuesday. Of course, traveling from the West Coast back to Memphis is always an adventure.

And we got stuck in Dallas on the way back. And so we left the hotel at like 10.30 from Vegas time and got back at like midnight after a full day of travel, which is there is nothing worse than being in Vegas for like five days and then having a 20-hour travel day. It was terrible. It was terrible. And so I'm recovered now. I feel a lot better than I did yesterday for sure. But man, time change takes it out of me for sure, as well as days become nights, nights become days. you're taking it so much basketball and then doing shows, et cetera. But all in all, it's great to see. Yeah.

Yeah. Great to see everybody. I feel good. No hangovers. Zero dollars gambles, but lots of great food, lots of great times. And some good basketball, some bad basketball, some very ugly basketball. It was a good biggest trip. Well, and this is why we're the mismatch because I am the exact opposite to you.

At one point, I was up a lot of money. And I reached in my pocket on the way home, and that money was no longer there. And, you know, I made this mistake. Well, I made this mistake many times in my life. But one year, I recall, when I went, I would win. And every time I would win, I would leave. I would go. I would cash it out.

and I would go spend the money. So I'd like go buy tickets to shows or I would go buy like, you know, souvenirs for my kids or whatever, right? And it's like, man, I don't know whatever happened to that philosophy because I should have kept that one because there's many times where I was up really big. But as they say, the house always wins at the end. The more you play, it's probably not going to go your way. That's why they have all those shows and lights and everything else.

But anyways, good trip. I was glad I got to see everybody. We got to do the live show together. Got to see a lot of ringer people that I don't usually see throughout the year. And a lot of people from around the NBA that I don't usually see throughout the year. There are tons of players and executives staying at the hotel I was at. And so it was just every other moment I was running into somebody. But let's get to the actual basketball because it seemed that.

as if when I was still talking to people that were there and by the time I left, I came home and I've been watching the games. I actually think it's been a pretty good TV product just to I kind of view it like preseason football and I know a lot of people hate like preseason NFL, but I like it in the sense of the announcers are just kind of end up talking about the league at large. And so it's something good to just have on in the background and when something awesome happens, I could turn on. But man, the one that I kept having to look up at the screen was Chad Holmgren. And that one felt like, man, I am surprised he is still out there.

I am happy that he is playing this much. He played in Utah. And now he's playing out in Las Vegas, getting back in a groove. and I saw his first game in the Utah Summer League. And if you go from that moment to what took place in this last Oklahoma City game with him, I mean, I think it is exactly what they wanted to accomplish. And I think that I got a much better view of what this guy has the opportunity to be for the first time through. because he is, he's one of those rookies you can get super excited about because we're robbed of the opportunity of seeing him last year.

But, Kev, there are, I know it, everybody can always say it's just Summerlee. He does some very special stuff, Kev. He really does. He absolutely does. I mean, I think with Chet, like in that game against the Pacers you're talking about, he scored at the rim, you know, rolls to the basket. It's felt like a hundred times of some of the worst pick-and-roll deal. defense you know, you'll ever see that the Pacers play to. It's absolutely horrific. But, you know, throughout this summer league, he's also shown, you know, the ability off the dribble. He had a couple

of nice passes in that game. Some of them were, you know, some turned into assists, some didn't. But Chet, his handle, he had to pull up jumper as well, I believe, in that second half. Chet, he's a do-it-all guy. And I think with him, with Oklahoma City, they've shown off all those skills. And even in the prior game, I think it was against Dallas, if I remember correctly, Dallas or Sacramento, one of those two. I get Dallas. And, you know, like his just ability to space the floor as well, he forced the defenses to step out against him, attacking closeouts. He's shown everything that he can do. And I think for Oklahoma City, he's going to make a significant impact on their offense as a floor spacer, but also on defense with his shop blocking. That's been his best skill throughout this entire summer league, is the shop blocking, which comes. is no surprise. That's going to be immediate. He is going to be, he's going to matter defensively,

immediately. And the other thing is, we talk about opportunity and fit. There is nothing better than him being like, he's really like a fourth option walking in. Because you got SGA.

You got Jalen Williams. You got giddy. Like, you just get to, you get to pick your spots and you're not game plan to, Like we always talk about how much harder it is for guys many times their second year because rookies get to play so much.

And so the second year in many cases is not the advance year, but is actually maybe a step back because, as we always talk about, you're on that whiteboard. When they are getting ready for that game last night or tonight, they have, they've got a book on you now. And so they've seen you play and you're there as someone they want to try to take away. He's far down. That whiteboard starting out. And he's just going to be able to be comfortable. You know, he's going to be able to be comfortable and not be game planned against. And I think, I think he can have a fantastic rookie season.

I really do. I think that's spot on. Like in terms of he goes to OKC, they have so many other options on offense. And yet, I think with his skill set, he's an enhancer, right? Like, he's just because of his floor spacing, because of the verticality at the basket, as a lob threat for SGA and all of their ball handlers, and as a floor spacer, opening, driving lanes even more for those guys. And on defense, Oklahoma City last year was 13th in defensive rating, pretty close to average.

When Chet's on the floor, I would expect them to be a top 10 defense, maybe even better than that, maybe top seven, top six, top five. Chet's that much of a difference maker as a rim protector. So if he's improving your defense, he's also creating more transition opportunities for SGA and Gideon, and Jalen Williams, he's great open floor players. And I think for Oklahoma City, Chet is just the type of guy who can accelerate this forward

for the thunder in ways that we're talking about right now, but we'll be very apparent when we actually see all the pieces together on the floor. And the fact that last season, Giddy and SGA, the question with them was, how will these two guys who are average or below average shooters coexist together? The fact that those two guys proved that they can enhance each other and excel with each other on the floor, that SGA was a, you know, an MVP, you know, borderline MVP candidate as a top five guy who was a no-brainer all NBA player. The fact that SGA and Giddy both shot at least, you know, solid from three, Giddy improved as the year. year in the middle of the season around December, January. NSGA, maybe next season he's doing more spot-ups and less off the dribble. Maybe his numbers go down slightly, but his efficiency goes up.

For Oklahoma City, it's going to be very, very interesting to see the way in which Sam Presti, with all of those assets, you know, how does he pick his spots building with this team as good as they are already, 40 and 42 last year with one of the best coaches in all of basketball and Mark Dagnall, an elite tactician, elite at making adjustments, elite enhancing his players, elite at player development. He's a great coach. I wonder how Presti's going to build around this team,

and a lot of that might have to do with Chet and the immediate impact that he makes. I've got to tell you a great story about Presti. So he was at one of the games, and one of my buddies was sitting like caddy cornered to him. And he had like this, not like a wispy piece of paper, almost like a piece of poster board type thing, right? And it had like all this writing on it, like, you know, 4D, blah, blah, blah, like all these different like mix of like letters and symbols and numbers on.

Like short hands, like short hand his own language. Yeah, yeah, yeah, almost like short hand his own language or whatever. And so my buddy takes a picture of the damn thing and spend the whole weekend trying to decipher what it was that he kept looking. down at and and then showed me the picture and I'm like, I don't know what the hell any of that means. And it was like, it was one of those like beautiful mind things where it's like, it felt like if somebody were to take a picture of this document that I was holding that you would never be able to tell what it says anyway.

And I thought that was the craziest thing. It was. It had like a bunch of like letters and numbers and all this stuff on it. And they could never figure out. He was like, I just wanted to see what he kept looking at. And so I tried to snap a picture of this, you know, this thing that he was looking at. And he was like, this is what it was. And I, like, zoomed in on it.

And I was like, I don't know what the hell that says. I can't tell anything with it. Anyway, if you're an old global city fan, you've got to be over the moon on Holgren. Other guys that would have caused fan bases to be over the moon. I mean, Jabari, my God. I mean, the guy, he played a couple of games. He averaged 34 points in those games. And he shot nine threes.

and was it 33% shooting the nine threes a game? And it's like the defense was always going to be ahead of the offense for him, high-energy player. I feel like he is one of those perfect examples of a guy where patience is going to be a virtue. And so anybody that was out on Jabari Smith Jr. early, you're going to rue the day because this was a very talented kid coming out of Auburn, kind of beset by the same thing that was his issue in Auburn, which is when he was playing with pig guards.

And he goes into a rookie year in a disastrous situation with pig guards. And, you know, I told you, like they play like an AAU team where they're just whoever's got the ball and they're flying up and down, taking whatever kind of crap shot. And it just is a terrible environment for development. That being said, they've got some veterans now on their team. they've got some guys that care deeply about winning. They've got them a coach that has got his bona fides in leading a team to the NBA finals.

And you saw the flashes of that talent that made everybody think that Jabari Smith Jr. was going to be the number one pick in the draft and that made it a real debate on whether or not you liked him or Paolo Bancaro or possibly even one of the other guys. But he was kind of locked in as, One, I know you had Paolo higher the whole time, but most of the mocks had Jabari Schmidt Jr.

At the very top for the whole draft process. And I think that at least this summer league was the first time that that looked like it made all the sense in the world. Because we kind of got the full experience of him, at least in this summer league. And it seems like he's well on his way to having a much better second second. season than what is his rookie season? The thing that impressed me most about him in the Summer League was, like, you mentioned the high volume of threes and, you know, the below average percentage, 33%. It's not like he was shooting the lights out.

But it just needs to get up a little. Yeah, I mean, and also he was taking a ton of shots off the dribble. He was taking pull up threes. He was taking, like, in that last game, he played it against the pistons. He had this beautiful turnaround fadeaway jumper with two guys. around him from the left block on the post with the shot clock running down and i mean he he had these pull-up shots from outside and in some interior passes finding finding open players drives to the basket attack and closeouts i mean he scored in every which way possible creating shots and

he had the trash talk against james wiseman as well you know after roasting him on multiple occasions I just felt like it was an absolutely complete Summer League performance by Jabari Smith, and he showed all the type of stuff that he flashed at Auburn. Because at Auburn, people kind of talked about him as like a 3-Indi plus guy. He shot 43% in Auburn. He was a great defender at Auburn. But he also did flash like pull-ups and turnaround shots from the post. That's something that wasn't as efficient for him as a rookie.

But, I mean, he just looked so much smoother. I felt like handling the ball, you know, keeping it a little lower, keeping that a tighter dribble. Hopefully that translates to next regular season for him because it's the same thing you just said about Chet, Chris. Chet is in a situation where he doesn't, there's not too much pressure on him. With Jabari Smith in Houston, like you got Van Vleet there, you drafted Amin Thompson, you've got Jalen Green, you have all these other ball handlers, you have Shengoon with his dribble handoffs. It's not like Jabari Smith needs to be running the, you've got.

the offense necessarily. He just needs to be filling gaps and running the show when he needs to as a guy who's, you know, six foot 10 with size. So I think he fits right in perfectly as somebody who can play off of others, but also now showing the ability to handle the ball bit too. It's a good fit for Houston. And like, I've liked their core for quite a while now. I remember, you know, last year during one of the live shows, like we drafted or the ringer live show in Utah, if I remember correctly during All-Star break, me and Kyle, man, drafted like the rookies playing in the Rookie, the Rising Stars game, and I had a ton of Rockets. I've always liked this Rockets Young Corps, even though they've stunk. I've liked the individual players. Are you with me on

this Rockets core having a really, really bright future collectively, especially now with Udocha as their head coach? I think it much, much better. I mean, they, look, I was always in favor of, hey, I thought last year they should have sped up the process and like, hey, how many young, how many young guys do you need, right? You've got Jabari, you've got Jalen Green, you've got Shen Goon, you've got Tari Isan. It's like, he can't just keep. Really good with Yacin. Yeah. Doubling down, tripling down on town. Like, just put some vets around these guys and then let them grow. And so, yes, I mean, I always liked the young talent. I just think that they needed to even that roster out. And finally, this was the summer

that they did it and just get some vets in there because otherwise you're just going to have like, you know, the situation like you had last year, which was you had like really one vet on that team in Eric Gordon and Eric Gordon wasn't into it at all. You know, you remember that quote after the game. They're like, how much, how much improvement have you seen since the beginning of the year? And he's like, no improvement. None. You know what I mean? Like this is not what you need around your team, right? And then you remember the whole disastrous John Wall thing where they had him around,

but he wasn't like playing in any game? It was all just, I just didn't like the way it was run. But it's certainly much more serious now than they have been the last couple of years. And yeah, they've got some young talent for sure. Other guys that I think would make their fan base super excited that I wanted to mention, We touched on Keante George earlier in the week. That remained the same for Utah. Looks like they might have really gotten one in George.

He continued that throughout Summer League. Don't Jalen Durlin. I liked what I saw out of him from Detroit. You know, Ivy started out real slow and then got better. Assure Thompson, same thing. That Detroit, there's another one that's got some talent. Like, they need... You see the play, Osar made, Chris, that steel ripping the ball away

from Brady Dick. Then he pushes the break and he gets the ball back and he just kind of like floated mid-air as he, I don't know, he just glides to the basket and reverse dunks it. I don't know. Like, I've never seen that dunk look like that mid-air.

It was just absolutely nuts athletically. So you got Asar, you've got, they need, in the end, they need Cade or Ivy to become like a top 30 player for sure. Do you think, do you think Cade has that in him?

Do you have that level of belief in Kate? Yes. I loved him his rookie year. That second half of his rookie year, I know that the games become less important, but I thought that he was really on to something. And I thought that we got robbed of what could have been a real trajectory that took place last year. Now, I don't know. I mean, the guy looked like he'd been walking the tablets up Mount Sinai with Moses

or whatever the last time I saw that. You see that picture of him? I mean, a guy looked like he'd been down and out. The huge, not only the huge hair, but the huge beard with it, the whole thing. And I'm like, you okay, bro? You know? But we got Rob seeing him last year. But yes, I love Kate and I love Ivy.

So I certainly think one of them is going to be a good hit for sure. But now you got some of those, you need some of those big guys to come along. You just saw the picture. Did you see the cake cutting in the picture? I'm just laughing about it. I'm pretty, I'm just laughing about the thought of it. I did see it.

I'm pretty sure it was Photoshop, though. No. I'm almost positive it was Photoshop. It's not Photoshop. I'm almost positive. The cake cutting him with the, no. With the beard and the big hair? I'm pretty sure it's Photoshop.

No way. I don't believe. It is. It's Photoshop. It is? It is. I hate to tell you it's fuller shots. Oh, come on.

I know. Really? I know. I thought it was real in the first two. I did. Oh, what a shame. It's a good edit. It's a really good edit.

You can't believe anything on the internet anymore. I know. You really can't. It's true. That's really not him? No, it's not him. It's really not him. it really does look like it though huh i'm joking at it right now dog did k cutting him just get back

from the ten commandments on the top of sign you're not seeing that i did i know that is him it's not it's not it's not it's not it's not i just posted the link to the to the to the before photo oh shoot well i apologize to k cutting him look i said i love i said i love the guy I said I love the guy So they edited him to make him look like He's been walking in the desert Huh It really is a great tweet though

It really is I think I'm just getting back from receiving the Ten Commandments Yeah from Mount Zionite That's what I said Unbelievable All right Oh my goodness

Anyways I'm the point is I'm a big fan of his I'm a big fan of Ibees And now they got the big guy Duren I like Duren Look I had Duren here in Memphis during his Memphis season. And he is a hell of an athlete.

And he plays hard. And he's active. And so I was really happy with what I saw out of him out of Summer League. It's not easy as a big guy, you know, that doesn't have the ball in your hands. Because in many cases, these games are like NBA, AAU. And so if you're a big guy, you've got to really be active and you've got a hard role and you've got to be finishing lobs. I like Duren. I do.

And they might have hit on that one too. He had a good rookie year and certainly looked better even in this summer league. So another guy that would be exciting. And then I want to talk about a couple of the guys that you have tweeted about that are not necessarily the biggest of the names, right? I think those are always the ones that are going to excite people. but it seems as if you think that this summer league does matter for some of these guys. You know, we always have to determine when we're watching this, does it matter or not? So let's walk through these.

Max Christie, you like Max Christie. Christy's been absolutely awesome for the Lakers. And I think you go back to my draft profile with him in 2022 before last year. One of the things, you know, just the headline of him is Lanky, wing with versatile defensive skills and long-term shooting upside. And with him in Michigan State, he shot under 32% from three, but the flashes are now turning into consistency. He shot over 40% with the G-League Lakers last year, over 40% from three with the NBA Lakers with limited opportunities. And this year in the G-League, he's shooting over 50% from three. He's shooting the heck out of the

ball and mid-range pull-ups. So that touch that he displayed, on layups, floaters from the free throw line is now finally translating. And I think with him at 6-6 with pretty good length, he's added weight to his frame, added muscle to his frame. He looks like the part of a guy who's now ready to be at worst,

15-minute-per-game player who spots up from behind the arc, who plays tough, hard defense, makes the right smart passes on the floor, and fills the role as a high- IQ player. who does the minimum, three and D style stuff. I think for the Lakers,

it's going to be very, very interesting to see after all the signings they made, all the wings they added, even the Cam Reddish types of the world, is Darwin Am going to give 20-year-old Max Christie an opportunity to play over

some of those veteran players or younger players who still have something to prove like a reddish? Because I think he's shown a lot this past year going back to his time with the Salt Bay Lakers and the fact it's now translating at a real, high volume. He's averaging over

20 points per game in both summer leagues and this California classic in Vegas. He looks tremendous for the Lakers and, you know, that's encouraging for L.A. because Hitchafino has not impressed so far. It's been a real rocky summer league for him. Colin Castleton has looked really good for the Lakers

as a playmaking big of their young guys, but Max Christie above all of them has really impressed me. You see him in like the KCP role? Yes. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good problem. Somebody you could learn from, right?

As you're describing it, that's what I'm thinking about and kind of how you fit in in the Lakers world. It's like, don't screw things up. The Danny Green, the KCP, something like that, yeah. Yeah, and he, you know, when you mentioned like will he play over, like, if he's good, he'll play over Cam Reddish. I saw the LeBron tweet. You know, I have a theory on Cam Reddish. It's just like, you know, this is forever Rudy Gay. This is Jeff Green.

A lot of these guys that are cut from this cloth that are like that six, nine, crazy athletes. Everything looks the part. My theory is that these guys are absolutely positively unbelievable at pickup. If you ever talk to basketball players, they all thought Rudy Gay was unbelievable. They all thought Jeff Green was unbelievable. They all love Cam Reddish. I really think that. I think that like when there's no structure and there's no like offense you got to be in,

defense you got to be in, and they all play together in the summer that this guy's probably like frigging Carmelow, who by the way is on another summer like just killer. But that like Cam Reddish is like he's cut from that same cloth of these guys that I can only imagine that when they play unstructured, like when they're playing pickup amongst all the NBA guys in the summer. they're just unbelievable, unbelievable. Well, Chris, I think for Cam Reddish, the Lakers are going to be very interesting to monitor because think about Max Christie,

everything I just said. He had good touch in college. He was not a good three-point shooter. He goes to the Lakers. They put him through their developmental system. He improves as a shooter. Austin Reeves, you can say the same exact thing about. Reeves was, you know, an inconsistent shooter in college.

He's become a good, reliable guy from behind the arc in the NBA. With Cam Reddish, that's been the number one thing throughout his career. Going back to college, he's been an 80% plus guy from the free throw line. He has never been a good shooter from three. So how do you translate that consistent success from the free throw line to spot-up threes, catch and shoot? If the Lakers can do that with Cam Ruddish, he's had his moments where he's been a very good defensive player. he's had his moments as a guy attacking in a straight line to the basket

if they can make Cam Reddish into a consistent shooter that could change the trajectory of his career as a high-end role player in this league something on my mind in the context of Christie that's the issue and what you brought up with Max Christie Max Christy is going to understand where I fit in in the NBA and this is how I'm going to have a long career

guys like Reddish are not they're not built to be role players They don't figure out they need to be role players until eight to 10 years into their career. I promise you, I totally disagree, Chris. He should be one of the best three players on the team. I promise you. I disagree.

I mean, he had Duke. At Duke, he took the backseat. He was the third year. He quit at Duke. He literally quit. He quit. He quit. That's what he did.

He had a great team. And he wasn't one of the top two guys. He was on there with Reddit. He was on there with Zion. and RJ, and he literally quit. The day of the game said, I can't go. When it's the NCAA tournament. Like, don't tell me at Duke.

That's exactly what happened. I'll tell you at Portland. In Portland, last year he had the best stretch of his career, arguably, and at least compared to the Knicks, took a back seat. I mean, it's not like he was in the driver's seat. for Atlanta earlier in his career either. He's never really gotten an opportunity to be the guy. And he's never been good.

That's my point. He hasn't been the guy since high school. Yes, and he hasn't been good. He's never been good because he doesn't know how to be a role player. He'll figure it out in 10 years. You know, that's what happens with these guys. Might figure it out at age 24 with the Lakers. We'll see what they can do with his jumper.

I mean, this is Ben McLemore all over. over again. Another really talented guy. You know? It might be. That's all all I'm saying, Chris, is I'm just curious to see if the Lakers, one of the best drafting programs, clearly one of the better player developmental programs, if they can figure something out with Cam Reddish. If they can't, that doesn't bode well for him as a shooter moving forward in his career.

Now, that's fair. Jordan Walsh, you tweeted about. I did not see Jordan Walsh. So tell me what I need to know. he looks like a blend of the maniac we saw on defense at Arkansas this past season as a freshman. And the guy who in high school did more off the dribble than he was allowed to show at Arkansas, considering their other ball handling talents.

And for the Celtics, it is incredibly encouraging to see Walsh doing all that stuff off the dribble because at a minimum, you're hoping Jordan Walsh can be a game. guy who, you know, at least shoots threes at a competent level. He's shooting 37% on threes on six threes per game in the summer league. But he's also, you know, passing the ball. He had a

beautiful behind the back dish. He's had some nice passes smoothly off the dribble, attacking closeouts, and he's hitting pull-ups. He's getting to the rim, and he's still doing all his wild stuff on defense as an energizer. He really let a Celtics come back

against the Lakers in their last game. And so for Walsh, you know, the Celtics trade down like three times, pick up a bunch of extra second round draft picks and still get the guy who looks like one of the steals of the second round. Walsh looks like to me like somebody who can potentially play right away or at least deserves an opportunity to play right away. And if his shot continues to be as consistent as it's been in Summer League, then it's going to be hard to keep him off the floor because his defense is already that good. It's good enough to get regular minutes. It's all about the jumper. You like their second round pick from last year The guard from Bama, Davidson

J.D. Davidson? Yeah, he's solid. I'm not a huge fan of him, but he's definitely a solid player. You know, knows how to pass the ball. He just hasn't shot the ball well. That's... Yeah, that's the thing for him. Isn't that such a make or break skill, man?

Like, how often does that come up with so many players at this point? It's like, there's so much talent. Even like, we're talking Chet, Usman Jang, is looking great. for them and his second year. And with all these guys, there's just so much talent.

If you can't shoot, it's hard to get consistent minutes. And it also can keep you from being like a super duper star. Everybody I talked to love both Thompson's. And that was the only thing they said. If those kids ever get a shot, watch the hell out because they can't shoot. Like neither of them are,

they're just going to get, you're going to go under. You're going to go under against those guys. I'll tell you what, though, Chris. Osar, though, he had a nice pull-up three. He had a pull-up mid-range jumper in his last game. And that was the game. Like I mentioned earlier, where he had the steel against Dick

and then the lob dunk on the other side. He also hit those two jumpers. His shot looks better than Amman's. It has throughout the entire pre-draft period. That's one of the reasons why I had him just one spot ahead of Amman. But Osar looks good, dude. I'm very excited to see him play with Chet and Ivy and all those guys. One of the guys that I mentioned, or that you mentioned, I mean, that I talked to some people thereabout.

I brought up to somebody while I was out there, an executive, in fact, I brought up that Malachi Branum. And he was like, the Spurs love that kid. And I was like, oh, they do? And he was like, yes, they love Branum. They think he's going to be something. And so I thought it was interesting. You tweeted about Brandom during something. Summer League. I guess you're a fan as well, huh?

Yeah, he had a 29-point game against the Wizards, just hitting pull-up threes, spinning moves in the middle of the lane into mid-range jumpers, floaters, you know, kind of fading out of bounds. Brenham is an absolute bucket-getter. And last year, it's kind of a surprise one and done for Ohio State comes out and doesn't do a all season long for the spurs, but for the Austin Spurs, he's performing well. And I forget the numbers on the top of my head, but I believe he had a stretch over like an 8, 10-game period. He was averaging almost 20 points per game for the Spurs down the stretch of the season.

And granted, it's, you know, tank in time. It's, you know, teams aren't necessarily game planning for the spurs at that point of the season. The fact that he did show the goods that he did at Ohio State and now it's translating to Summer League, you got to feel a strong sense of optimism for him. moving forward for the spurs and like he's he's like a he's an interesting piece kind of in their mix right like devon vassel you got him as your long rangy three and d wing who can do a lot off the dribble as well keldin johnson your downhill attacking wing jeremy sohan your

defensive stopper who can handle on offensive bit and has improved his jumper a lot and obviously when benyama brandum's kind of that spark plug guard wing player at six four six five that fill some gaps within all of their needs that they currently have, of their players that they already have, what they just need, the spurs are missing that playmaking point guard and that big, you know,

strong, heavy center to compliment Victor Webbanyama. Other than that, they have a lot of the pieces that you look for from a roster construction standpoint. Well, and the other thing is with as many players as they have and young talent and how good they've been at developing it,

you know, if the brand-im kid is really good, they just keep on having the assets in order to be able to move to fill in what they want to get, right? Yeah. They can, yeah, because they just decide like, hey, you got all these young guys, then guys that are in their, you know, first contracts. Now we decide which, which of these, you know, you just named off like four or five guys. Okay. You're typically not going to have like a four or five guy core.

You're really going to have like a three guy core, right? And then you're going to build out around that. And the other guys are going to change. Because those are the guys you're going to end up paying the big bucks too. And those are the guys that are going to be part of it for the long term. And so it does feel like part of this year, especially with Wimbayama, it's going to be figuring out like who is, who's the young core? Like who are the guys that are going to be there? They're going to be in their positions for the long haul.

The other stuff will fill in the gap here. We'll fill in the gap here. we're filling the gap here. But which of these guys? Because the other ones, you know, even if they don't, even if they're not the perfect fit with Victor, because that's what you're building out the whole thing around. If they're not the perfect fit,

they're still talented guys that you could go and swap for what you need. So I think they're in a good position right now, especially when they got some guy like Malachi Branham, you know, impressing people. And the word is out that they really think something of him. Because they're not going to keep him. all, right? You're not going to keep them all.

You're not going to keep five guys for the long haul or six guys for the long haul. And so they'll identify who is that core along with Wemby and the other ones. They can swap for that stuff that you need, you know? They're a good spot, I think. There's a lot of good young cores. I mean, just think about all the names we've rattled off during this podcast. Oh, yeah.

So many of these teams that. stunk last season. Oklahoma City was average. They could be kind of this next year, Sacramento Kings, a team that propels themselves into a top six seat. The Spurs, the Rockets, all these teams that were bad. The magic were good to close the season,

but they still only won 34 games. The Pistons, all the names were listed. There's a lot of good talent across the league right now. Oh, yeah. You have all these names and all this potential. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're ever going to be anything because the threshold is just so high. Because all these good teams also have developed talent, deep developed talent.

The league's loaded. The other thing is by the time you get to the playoffs, the good teams are old. Young teams don't win big. Yeah, you're right. They just don't. They just don't win big. Don't you feel like with all this talent, you know, Adam Silver is talking about how

closer than ever to expansion, it's time to expand. There's a lot of good players that should be getting consistent minutes and can be getting consistent minutes, don't you think? Oh, I think that when I watch Summer League and you know I go down because my hometown producer calls the Hustle Games, and so I watch a lot of those games in the G League. When I watch Summer League and I watch the G League, I am continually, I'm continually left with the thought that the margin is so razor thin

between whether or not you have an NBA career or not. So many times it's about being a good teammate. It's about having a great attitude. It's about understanding what kind of role that you, you know, where you fit in, how hard that is for everybody to figure out because they're all so, they're all so great for so long. I don't know if you saw, there was a clip that was going around. and it was about

it was Gilbert Arenas and he said he was talking to young players about, you know, finding your spot on a team and trying to figure out,

you know, where you fit in and not everybody can be the guy. And he said, he was talking to these kids and he was telling them about Pat Beverly. And he was like,

what do you think, it's like high school kids. He's like, what do you think Pat Bev average in high school? You know, they're like, Do me average like 30 or something like that?

37. Yeah. 37. Average like six steals a game too. Yeah. In Chicago. Not an easy place that go average 37. But it's like, then you realize like I'm going to be, how am I going to have a 12-year career?

Right. How am I going to have a 15-year career? And what do I need to dedicate myself to do to be able to get on the? court. And so there is so much talent when I see that, but it's like, can you, can you be the guy that can have a small role and star in that role? Because talent is not the issue. There is enough talent. There's no question. I tell you this. I go to that Summer League. I watch that G-League, and I'm left, and I'm like, geez. Like, I told you that, what was that guy's name? I said that I saw in Chicago. I saw he had another good game that he had like the game winning play.

Javon Freeman Liberty, unbelievable name. Freeman Liberty is a, I mean, for a hyphenated jersey name. But I never heard of that guy in my life. You watch him and you're like, this guy's not in the NBA. Like he was good as hell. In the game I was at he had like 24, 8 and 6. Then I came back home and watched him again. And I'm like, God, who is this? This guy is good. It really is a great name. Great name.

Freeman. A great name. And he's a good player. Freeman. Watch him play and you're like, what is the difference between him and a lot of guys in the NBA? It ain't much because he goes hard. He's got this dogged nature about him. He's just, but.

And I know that you see all those guys. that are participating in the G League, they're participating in Summer League. And it's like, it's a long-winded way of telling you. I agree with you. Like, there's enough players. There's enough players out there right now. And when I went to that frigging AAU tournament,

wait until you see what's on the way. Jesus Christ, Kevin. I walked in and there were seven footers, six eight, six seven. Like, if you weren't NBA size, this was at the picture. jam that I was at. Like, this was the lead-up to the peach jam, the weekend before when I went and saw

Cooper Flag and all that group. But if you didn't have like six, seven or bigger across your front line, you were small. Most of them had like seven footers playing center. These kids are 15, 16, 17. I'm like, oh, my God. This is ridiculous. You walk into that gym. Oh, my God.

That size is why I'm so obsessed with what, you know, Orlando, Oklahoma City, some of these teams are doing where they just have a ton of size across positions. That's the future of the game is skill plus size because the three-point shot has migrated to across positions at this point. Ball handling is not just for six-foot-one, six-foot-two guys. It's also for 6'7, 6'8, 6'9 guys more than ever before. Obviously, you've had Magic Johnson in the 80s, LeBron James, Oscar Robertson was big way back when, but it's just more. There's more guys with size who can handle and run an offense. And SGA being that guy for Oklahoma City, a look over that guy for Dallas and so on and so forth. Amen Thompson could be that for Detroit at 6'7.

Osar and Kate Cunningham are both big for the Pistons. teams are huge across positions. And I think that's the future of the game that we're going to see. Kevin, I went to one game and they were like, I think it was Atlanta. It was one of those teams. I can't remember. But like did a kid who, like, they said he was playing up. So he's playing like with the, you know, the 17 U's or the 16 use, whatever.

But he was like 14 or 15. He was freaking, it was a 6-8 wing. Mike, it's like having like Jalen Brown out there. Like kids like 14 or 15. It's like, come on, bro. Like what is going on? You walk in that gym and you just can't even believe it. It doesn't look anything like your high school team did.

I promise you. A couple other things that we need to mention before we get out of here. The Damian Lillard stuff is like it heats up, cools off, heats up, cools off. And I think they tried to cool it all off by saying, oh, it could take months, which usually means it's going to be done within like, a week, right? They're trying to get everybody off their back. You do wonder, you know, he's obviously trying to force his way to Miami. I do think somebody will, if they just want to get another first rounder by moving off of, you know, somebody else ending up with Hero, I do think somebody

will absolutely give up a first rounder in order to get Hero. I mean, the numbers of the numbers. Guy shoots great from three, 90% from the free throw line, already won a six man. He's Super young still 20 points, five rebounds, four assists, whatever the hell it is. Like, he's a good player. He's really good. And I don't think his development is done. But it doesn't seem like they want a hero, but they've got to try to find this third team. And I would imagine that you're now by saying, hey, we can drag this thing out.

You know, you're probably trying to get the best third team offers that you can involved there. Typically, when people say we don't want to drag or we're willing to drag this out, typically they don't drag it out. But I don't know. What do you think? Do you think this might just be something that drags on until later in the summer or until those Miami guys are eligible to be traded? Maybe is kind of the timeline?

Or do you think that we're going to look up? But within the next week, we're going to have to do some kind of emergency pod because there's a huge deal that went down. It could be a repeat of the Kevin Durant or Ben Simmons side. where Katie and Ben Simmons demand trades during the summer, Katie ends up returning to the nets and playing for them until he's traded mid-season. Ben Simmons does not return to the Sixers and he gets traded mid-season. It could be that for Damien Millard.

It could be that the Blazers, as we've talked about for a long time now, we're just waiting for a better offer. It could be that they're waiting for the heat to maximize what they can, or it could be that they're hoping for a surprise team to pop up out of nowhere and make a big deal. Maybe it's the Sixers and the three-way where they're sending Maxi somewhere else. Maybe it's a younger team like the Utah Jazz

trying to accelerate things. Maybe it's the Minnesota Timberwolves flipping Carl Anthony Towns to the Knicks or some other team in a three-way deal. It could be a surprise team that pops up out of nowhere and it seems like that's the Blazers and tensions. But ultimately, Miami, as of today, has the best offer, but the best offer is a weak offer.

It's an extremely weak offer. So at the least, the Blazers need to wait until Hamé Haquez and, you know, their other young players are eligible to be traded because that, and Tyler Hero is in a position where he can be flipped for those young players, possibly from recent draft picks that can't get traded yet as well. So we'll see what happens here. I mean, it'll be very interesting to see if Miami ends up landing him or not. But if you're the Blazers, they're in the right to be patient here.

This is what they should do because that Miami deals. right now sucks. It's interesting what you say about that you mentioned cat. Maybe it's not involved with the Damien thing or not, but that was one of the things when I was out and about in Vegas. I was with some people that cover Minnesota and all

of them, across the board, all of them said cat's gone. It's a matter of where. Before the season. Before the season. No, it's just a matter of time. The Nazaree thing was exactly what I thought the Nasre thing is. I said, so which one's gone. They said, cat.

Cat's going to be the one that ends up somewhere else. That's the one. For sure. You know, I mean, Minnesota should be going, should go for D. You know, evidently, his agents calling everybody threatening them. Yeah, who cares? I do think that if it drags out, we're probably, he's not going to, like, bail on Portland and then, like, not try. No.

Even though the scoot thing got so exciting that they should just, you want that to, you want, you don't want a drama to start the year with. No, Chris. You don't want the drama. I don't want the drama. I disagree. You need to do what's best for your franchise, and it's not drama to bring Damien Lillard of all people back.

Dame is a professional, and it would quiet down if he's back, and it would pop back up if necessary in January or February. But there's also advantages to having scoot around Dame, too. Yes, there could be a little bit of drama involved. Yes, there could be questions around the team of whether he's going to be traded or not. But at the same time, I interviewed Scoot Henderson over the weekend, and it's running on the ringer on Friday. And I talked to Scoot about Dame. And he said he spoke to him.

You know, he's asked him for advice. And Dame's given that advice. So for Scoot, what I said to him in the interview was, if he's traded, you are in the driver's seat right away. If he's not traded, you get reps playing off the ball. And you get to share the ball with Demi and Lowe and get to learn from him. So for the Blazers side of things, there are advantages if this ends up being a KD-style situation where he does come back,

they wait until the season to end up making a move because that could be advantageous to Scoot Henderson earlier in his career. You disagree? I think he'll be gone by the beginning of the season. Yeah, I know, but with my point, though, you just said how you think you get rid of the drama. As long as he's not pissed about the situation.

He's not, That's why those threats are so empty. Oh, you're going to get an unhappy player. Please, be serious. This is Damien Lourne we're talking about, not James Harden. Well, let's talk about James Harden because Sam Amick put out that he is dead set on going to the Clippers. That's where he wants to go. Now, that is a subplot.

Do you think he would, look, we've seen him quit on other teams. Would he quit on his boy, Daryl? I guess it said in the article that he was upset with the way Daryl handled the you know, the contract extension stuff anyway. And so, geez, Louise. You want to talk about not the place to quit in. It's Philly. You can pull that crap off in Houston or Brooklyn,

but you ain't pulling that off in Philly. You ain't going out there and doggling it in Philly. And especially poor, I mean, God, you wouldn't want that. This is one where I do think Daryl's going to have to do something about it because he's got a new head coach and Nick Nurse, and you want this thing to get started off. well and it's like I don't think that he's got to make sure that James gets what he wants. On the other hand, the longer that one drags out, this might be the exact opposite of what

you just talked about with Lillard. It's like you bring him back, he will just, he'll do the Simmons thing, a dog, he'd have his cell phone at practice and maybe even not even show up to practice. When he doesn't want to be somewhere, he don't want to be somewhere. And so you've got a, that would be a concern. You know, I don't know whatever happened to the Clippers thing. When this stuff first all came up and I still feel the same way where it's like, it makes all the sense in the world to have the Hardin and Harris trade to the Clippers.

And George and Norm Powell or whoever end up in Philly as some kind of like, those are like the major pieces to a deal. If you're, now if you're the clippers, you got to decide, are you, are you about to do the extension? With George and Kauai?

Because they're both going to be up. But their contracts are up. Hardin's got this one year deal. So you could have that for a trial run. Maybe get the best version of him because he's trying to get another, you know, $160 million contract at some point. Harris will fall off your books.

If the Hardin thing doesn't work out, Harris falls off your books. Powell's out there for, you know, two more years after this one at like 20 million. So obviously you're getting off of that. And I actually think it might make both teams better. It's possible. You know, Hardens more of a carrier team

while Kauai plays his 30 games than Paul is. But, you know, they're both up for extensions. And it's like, are you going to extend both Paul George and Kauai Leonard for a lot of money going forward, I almost feel like both of them being in different situations for one season might get the absolute best out of them in terms of game played and production because they would both be so interested in getting

that coveted last extension, right? I don't know. I would not extend any of them right now, Chris. I think if you're the Clippers, you're considering how you're opening up a new arena next season, as in not later this year, but the following year for the 24-25 season. So for the Clippers right now, I'd go all in this year, assuming there's no great, you know, trade, Paul George trade.

If there's something involving George where you move him now, then maybe you'd do it. I just don't think that's necessarily out there. So if you can get hardened and you can dump some long-term salary, including Norman Powell, and maybe just one first-round draft pick can have clean books next summer. You go all in this year. Maybe you make a run. And if you don't, which you probably won't,

Hardin, George, Leonard, all free agents next year. You'd only have like Zubots and Kobe Brown and maybe Terrence Mann under contract for next season. You'd have a clean slate with a pretty good free agent class, a new arena opening, and a lot of ways to build out your roster. So I think for the Clipper side of things, maybe that should be approached. Go all in this year and then have clean books next summer. And then you react depending on how this year goes for PG, Kauai, and Hardin.

I just think if they move Hardin, if they move Hardin, they're getting a star back. I just don't think he's doing it for role players. So you think it's only a three-way if they get game back then? Because what other star are they going to get besides Damien Mullard? No, no, no. I'm saying if they can't. Seac. Well, we mentioned George.

They can't get George, right? They can't get that. So three-way with game, then. Oh, Lillard and Embed would be awesome. You'd have to give up Maxie to get Dame, though. You wouldn't have the assets otherwise. What's your window with Mbid, like, you know, being one of the best three players in the league?

I know. So right now you've got to go for it. It's probably about the three years that you would have Lillard, right? Mm-hmm. I agree. And you've probably got about three years of him being amazing. Yeah, I'd go for it. I would go for it as well.

If I could somehow pull that off, and he would be okay with going there. Last thing, two rules changes. I bet you one more thing on that note, Chris. I'll tell you this for, let's say that these teams that everybody talks about being the third team for Tyler Hero, all of those teams would rather have Tyrese Maxie. So if Philadelphia is willing to give up Maxi, which all reports say they wouldn't that they don't want to give him up. But if they at some point change gears and say they are willing to trade Maxi, I bet you the Spurs, you know, the Jazz, the Nets, all of these teams would be willing to give up more picks from Maxi, which would increase Philadelphia's leverage and negotiations with Portland for Damien Lillard. So just something to keep in mind over the weeks ahead when it comes to hardened stuff

and potential three-way stuff out there for Philadelphia and the dame sweepstakes, if indeed they are willing to give up maxi. Last thing, the NBA rule changes. The extra coaches challenge totally in favor of. This is a good thing. So here's the thing. You only get another challenge if you got screwed in the first place because you had a bad call, go against you and you won your challenge.

And I've been to a lot of games where I've seen a coach, you know, there'll be some goal 10 that takes place in the first quarter and they don't challenge it because they want their challenge for later in the game. And so now, you know, if something happens earlier in the game or in the first half that you think you got screwed on, now you don't, that doesn't have to be a strategy where it's like, hey, we got screwed on this, but, God forbid, what have something happens, you know, in the fourth quarter with four minutes left. And then I'm going to really, or a block charge or something, I'm going to really wish I had that challenge. And then the other thing is the flopping.

So they're going to try to call this live. Let me say on the front. I think it's going to curb flopping drastically, and it won't be as bad of a problem. You know, happened with the rip through. It happened with the, you know, the foul hunting. And we've seen that change things dramatically. I do think that it's going to be very hard to call live. Block charge is always hard anyway.

And a lot of times, you know, a big, if they put their, if they put their shoulder down and then you throw your arms back in the air and fly on the ground, Like, there's probably contact there, but now you exaggerated it. And so now you're called a flop. And it's like, I don't know. I think that's going to be, I think the actual flops that do get called are going to be highly controversial. And guys are going to get super pissed when they get called for a flop. I think the actual flopping will be curved dramatically and virtually stop.

Like, egregious flopping. But then I think the ones that do get called are guys are going to get really mad about that. And I think it's hard to call those live. Obviously, it's hard to call them live. Who's calling Flops live? Like it happens so rarely. We're screaming at our TV, flop, flop, and it became a problem. But if they were good at calling them live, they'd call them live.

They can't. They're not good at doing it. So much going on. So I don't know. I'm just for looking back at the game and then assessing them after the fact that that publicly shaming guys and finding them money, putting their name up on NBA.com, this player was fine for flopping. He's a dirtbag.

And everybody gets to retweet it. Well, I think it'll help. I do too. It'll help. But there will be controversy about it, mark my words. the of course there's always drama

and it'll include Draymond in the first week of the season or maybe my new guy Marcus Smart Markus smart

I know exactly as soon as I get him they face it it's a conspiracy it's like that Jim Caviesel movie I don't know

what's going on but as soon as I get Marcus Smart now they're putting this in all right Kevin we miss anything we miss anything else

I mean nothing that other boring podcast won't cover. Wemby had a great second game. That was all the way back on Sunday, though. So that was a long time ago. That was nice to say. Yeah.

I mean, I didn't, I've never, literally never heard of the other center. So that was. Zion said it's hard to keep his weight down. Oh, God. On the Gilbert Arena's podcast. Like, hard to stay disciplined. Which I believe they were doing from the Blue Wire podcast studio in the wind. Yeah.

Yeah, which is literally directly next to the buffet. Oh, really? Yeah, I think he was probably on his way. Yeah, I think he was on his way there. And then they yanked him in there. Oh, boy. They didn't ask him about Mariah Mills either. They left that out.

Oh, they didn't ask him about Mariah Mills? No, I don't know. If you did get Zion to come on, you figure you'd at least joke about it. You got to ask him about that. I mean, it's been the thing for the last. like money. At least they, I mean,

also they asked about weight because I think they were talking about weight with their prior guests. And it was just like coincidental timing.

Oh, look who it is. Zion Williamson. Perfect timing. We were just talking about weight. God, that's hurtful.

All right. All right. Yeah, we didn't miss anything. Kevin, it is always. I'm moving for Zion. I am.

I know. I know you are. That's Kevin O'Pelican, for God's sakes. Mm-hmm. All right. Kevin, it's always a pleasure. I'll talk to you next week. Have a good weekend.

The only way that you get another coach's challenge is if you got screwed over in the first place. So if you got screwed over in the first place, then you get another one. And so that's good. Good. Thorval. Yeah. That's new.

I've never heard that. I've never heard that. Is that a doorbell? Yeah. I guess it's a doorbell. All right, so I'll just repeat that. Sorry, sorry, Jay. Okay.

Or sorry, uh, Jesse. Yes, Jesse and Jade, both. Yeah, both. I apologize to everyone involved for my doorbell. So all of the ringer.com.