The Mismatch - Suns Add Beal, the Next Big Move, Zion Trades, Draymond's Future, and NBA Draft Talk

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

Verno and KOC discuss the blockbuster trade that sent Bradley Beal to the Suns and what it means for the future of the franchise (03:06). Is the clock now ticking on Deandre Ayton’s time in Phoenix (13:18)? Also, the guys look at the other side of the trade and discuss what the next steps for the Wizards should be after a disappointing return for Beal that included Chris Paul (24:47). After Draymond Green declined his player option and opted to become a free agent, the guys debate what his next move could be (36:28). The guys end the episode by discussing the latest news surrounding Thursday’s NBA draft (52:19). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome to a golf podcast unlike any other. This is Fairway Rowland on the Ringer podcast network. I am your starter. Joe House every week on Fairway Rowland. It is myself and our PGA tour correspondent on the ground, Nathan Hubbard, talking all things, professional golf, amateur golf, amateur betting, professional betting, amateur drinking, professional drinking, my birdie buddies. If you want to hit them straight out there, please check out Fairway Rowland every week.

Available on Spotify. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and join him as he does every Monday night from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O. Bomber, Kevin O. Conflict, Kevin O. Kavanaugh, Kevin O. Conflict. Kevin O. O. Kavanaugh. Welcome back to Memphis after your time announcing the golf tournament. How are you doing? Yeah, I was in Stamford, Connecticut. I like Stamford, Connecticut.

I give it high marks. And as well as everybody had. How food you had there? Best restaurant? I did the pizza places. You know, they tried to do that. There's a couple of those places that are like the New Haven style. One of them is Sally's A pizza.

I had twice. while I was there. Okay. Yes. That was probably, yeah. New Haven is similar to what I grew up with in South Shore, Massachusetts. Similar. Yeah, and I didn't make it over to colony, which everybody kept telling me to go to colony pizza in Stanford.

And I wish I would have made it over there. But yeah, the food was good. The town was quaint. Could walk around everything. And it was fun. That's the important question. Pizza good? like that kind of thin crust, the crunchy,

crunchy, buttery crust, right? Yes. Yeah. I like the pizza. Someday, I mean, we'll never probably be in Massachusetts at the same time. But if we are, I'm going to take you down the South Shore, Massachusetts, and we'll go get some pizza at Linwood and Randolph or Townspot, and Poopsies and Pembrook, a number of different places for some bar pizza.

Yeah, I've heard there's amazing pizza there for sure. All right. So look, it's draft week, which you'd figure we were going to be doing a draft preview pod of sort. But man, the news that took place since we last spoke has now blown the draft out of the water in terms of big stories in the NBA because of what took place with the Phoenix Suns trading for Brad Beale. So the news breaks that Brad Beale, who we thought would be on the move, and certainly there was a lot of chatter that the wizards were working on this and that the other teams that they were talking to were trying to put something together to land him somewhere other than Washington. But we knew there was going to be a challenge with his no trade clause. So anyways, kind of knew it was coming. It still was surprising to see it come across the wide. and then to see it be Phoenix. So when the contents of the trade comes out,

and you see that Chris Paul is being moved along with Landry Shamit, some second round draft picks, et cetera, what was your first reaction when you saw the Brad Beale deal? Well, I'll give you my first reaction, and then my, I sat with it reaction. My first reaction was, wow, this is a lot of overlapping, redundant players on the suns, Bradley Beal, Devin Booker, Kevin Durant.

How much, you know, on-ball scoring can you really have? Is there diminishing returns here for these guys? The reaction that I had today, you know, as I've sat with this more, as I was writing on it last night, was this is a home run deal for the Phoenix Suns. And the reason for that is simply because there is no better deal out there for the Ghost of Chris Paul, Landry Shammett, who was not good. and some below average value picks, some swaps and second round picks.

They were not doing any better this off season than getting Bradley Beale. This is a definitive upgrade for them. Beal looked back at what he did with John Wall, when he was an off ball ace, a cutter, a mover coming off screens and handoffs. You'll see a ton of that with the Phoenix Suns now, and they're going to share the ball.

Those guys can all play with and without the ball. It's going to be beautiful offense. they upgraded and they still have the DeAndre Aiton piece on their team that they could either decide to keep or flip. So the suns still have more moves to make in this situation. My first reaction was, oh boy, here comes another new owner. I've covered this before. I've covered two owners that took over teams. We've seen it happen throughout all sports.

Obviously, we talk about basketball here on the mismatch, but we've also seen it in other sports where a new ownership takes over. And there is so many things that become common with taking over a new team. And that is that they're always highly involved at the beginning. A lot of big splash stuff that takes place. A lot of word about them being on the phone calls, about them getting deals done. and then by the time after a few years that their big splashes haven't worked out and they've spent a fortune, then they turn the other way.

You know, at the beginning, the spending is unlimited, and they're just going to go through with it, right? We've seen this, we saw it with Mikhail Prokerov when he took over the nets. I saw it here in Memphis where they threw $93 million at Chandler-Pars. There's always like the big move. The new owner is very, very involved at the beginning. And then eventually, even with, I've read a bunch of books about how the Patriots turned into the Patriots.

And one of the old things, you'll remember the famous press conference where they had a great coach in Bill Parcells and he went to the podium and he said, famously, you think if they want you to cook the meal, they'd let you shop for the groceries. And that was a direct hit at, you know, Robert Kraft. And so Robert Kraft then brings in a guy that's more of a, let's, agreeable fellow in Pete Carroll. And Robert Kraft is like very, very involved and he's very, very involved. And then he just decided, you know what?

I don't know this as well as guys that do this for a living, that evaluate players for a living. And there's a skill set here. And so he said, I am going to, I've realized, my area of my ways. I'm going to back off and I'm going to let Bill Belichick and the powers that be in the front office run this. They run football. I'll stand back and I'll fund the operation. And obviously it reaped tremendous benefits for him. We've seen a lot of over my favorite team, the Dallas Cowboys, have had an overzealous owner for the last 20 something years that thinks he

knows better and is always involved in things. And so when I saw this, I'm like, oh boy, here we go again with the new owner. He already made the splash with Kevin Durant. Now he's going to make the splash with Brad Beale. We'll see how long he's willing to do this. I think that I was listening to Brian Winhorse say, once you're putting together this team and you are going to be paying people,

you're going to be in the second apron in order to build a team good enough. And so at that point, the penalties of the second apron are the penalties of the second apron, the draft pick stuff, the ability to get free agents on and on and on, right? That Ford it's worth that, that, you know, is layered in year by year. It's not all of us here. Right. But once you're in, the whole concept was once you're in the second apron, you're in the second apron.

If you're in for a nickel or if you're in for a bazillion dollars. And so they're just going to be in for. a bazillion dollars. They're just going to blow through the second apron. That's the penalties. There's no way that they can have this team without being in the second apron. There's no way to do it. They've already got their pot committed.

But the point was they were already pot committed when they did the Durant thing. And in order to build out that team, now they're just going to go all in and spend, spend. They're not going to be done spending, right? They're going to make a decision on Tori Craig. They're going to make a decision on guys to bring back. And yes, they are going to have limitations, but they're going to spend a lot. And my concern would be when you spend like this, you've got to win or else you're going to see a dramatic reaction the other way. And the one thing about Beal being that guy that you get is that we can freely admit there's a possibility.

it doesn't work. Okay? Nothing is a sure thing. We've learned this a thousand times. Maybe the combination of players isn't what we think it can be, even offensively. Maybe you get the injuries, maybe the personalities clash.

Maybe Frank Vogel can't get it all to work together. And it doesn't work. He carried over his no trait. You know? So now how do you get out of it? of it if it doesn't work. And it's certainly a consideration. It just seems like they're just going to run into this money-wise and roster-wise with reckless abandon. And to me, of course, you're adding talent to this roster. And you've got to build out the rest of this team.

But it is going to cost you an absolute fortune to do it. There's not going to be an easy way out after you do it if it doesn't work. So it better win. It better. It better. win. That's what I'd say. You know? And the orders I said the owner is so involved is because of you saw you know the comments over the Durant thing. I called

Joe, we got on the phone whatever. And then just to advance that, Chris Paul did an interview with the New York Times today, said he talked to James Jones that morning. And the reason he kept saying in the interview, this is the

direction that Matt and Isaiah wanted to go. I guess this is the direction that Matt and Isaiah wanted to go. It leads you to believe that this was not what the GM wanted. It is not what the GM conveyed to him. And that this is the owner, you know, using his ultimate authority on the advice of Isaiah Thomas to do this deal. And that is always a tough one too when you're talking about. chain of command and making sure everybody's pulling the same rope. I mean, it's it. This is new owner 101. We've seen it before. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I've said it to you on this podcast and he

met, you know, Ishbia has been talking to Isaiah Thomas a whole bunch that Isaiah Thomas is part of the coaching discussions and a whole bunch else. I mean, I don't think that's really anything new. Chris Paul definitely wants that to be part of the conversation by mentioning it over and over and over again in that interview. So clearly he has his agenda for doing that with Isaiah Thomas not having an official role with the team but still having a voice. I'm sure Chris Paul is also just salty. He wanted to be part of the team moving forward as well.

I think James Jones is probably also. I mean, James Jones, look, I get it. You're probably like, what the hell am I here for? Well, I think everybody there is probably like that right now, considering the fact that the sons are having so many changes across all levels of the organization and it's all happening so fast with that said though at the end of the day this is a better roster right now but it's incomplete they have four guys on guaranteed contracts katie book beale and then diondrey aton they have campaign and ish wayn't right on non-guaranteed deals and they have a bunch of free

agents what do they do from here to me the next thing to complete this roster out is something involving DeAndre Aten. Oh, 100%. It's got to be that. It's flipping him in a trade. You can either trade him into a team that has cap space, say the Spurs or the Rockets, Oklahoma City, somebody like

that, and then you could free up the mid-level exception. You could go after somebody like a Kyle Kuzma type. Or you trade him outright in a regular deal for near equal salaries for multiple parts. They need wings. They need to figure out the big man position

if they move Aiton. Personally, what I would do is go cheap at the center position. Bring back Jock Landale, bring back Biznack Biombo, go cheap at center, and then try to make as much improvements as you can at the wing position. So, you know, Frank Vogel's not having to rely on Josh Okie and Tori, Craig, the space to floor when they're getting ignored by the Nuggets defense in a rematch playoff series next May. That's the priority, I think, in building around Beale, Booker, and Duran. Yeah, I mean, it would be interesting to see.

Maybe James Jones will get to make the Aiton trade. Maybe not. Maybe Ishbia just gets on the phone with somebody else and makes that trade too. But I'd take Aiton and I'd trade him for multiple role players and a couple of draft picks. Because you've got to have the draft picks and I got to nail them. But you've got to have guys on your roster that can outperform their contracts that can actually play for you. You know, hit those. Even if it's just some veteran guys, right?

Maybe you're drafting some seniors that can come in and that could play for you a role and learn how to play and give you some minutes because even the price of role players now, like high level ones, is going to be too great. You know, you even mentioned Kuzma. Kuzman's not signed it anywhere for the mid-level. He's getting way more than that. Maybe not. Oh, come on. He's getting way more than that. I don't know. Who's going to sign him with caps?

Yeah, sure, I will bet. Who's going to sign him from more? more than the mid-level exception. What'd you say? It's 12 million? Yeah, which team with Cap Space is going to sign him for more than the mid-level exception? Well, I mean, there's can always be signed in trades as well, Kevin.

Yes, there always could be. But of the teams of the capspace, Rocket... It doesn't have to be, but you're limiting that to like four-plus teams. Sure, but let's focus on those first. Rockets, Jazz, Spurs, Thunder, Pistons, Pacers, Magic. Are any of them signing Cusman or more than the mid-level at 12 million annually? Probably not. Probably not.

Probably not. Again, they're going to have a complete clean out there in Washington. And so I would think a sign-to-trade is much more likely. That's what I would guess, right? Signing him to a deal there and then trading him for assets from another team. Maybe he wants to go back out west, even if it's for a little bit less money. It's possible. But this is cash in time for Kuzma.

For sure, this is. This is going to be the best contract you ever get. By the way, that's just one name I'm throwing up there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it. I'm just saying. What I'm just saying is, if you deal Aiton, you open up the mid-level exception. That's all I mean. Yes.

And with Aiton, I would go and I would get a couple role players and I would get some draft picks. Some guys, this is how I'm filling out my roster. And again, I've got to, it's great. You got to nail those draft picks. because those are guys that can be on your roster for the next four years at, you know, if you can get in that back of that first round and nail them, it's the greatest value in the entire NBA. Truly, if you could find somebody in from 20 to 30 that can play for you for four years while making a million bucks, two million bucks, that's as good a value as you could possibly.

get. Obviously, if you could hit one. And, you know, you've got to be great at talent evaluation. Maybe you can nail some undrafted. And that's where the talent evaluation thing is going to be so big for them. You know, player development, using their G-League team, finding G-League players or undrafted players, finding late first round or possibly second-round draft picks that they can add to the roster and those are the things that can truly swing it for them. But we don't know, you know. Obviously, their talent evaluation was not so great because their roster was tragically exposed against Denver and in the playoffs for that matter.

So that's how you got to fill out the rest of the thing. You're already paying a fortune for the team. but in order to fill out the rest of the roster, you've got vet men stuff, and we'll see what kind of talent evaluators you are, because that's really going to be what they're charged with doing in terms of filling out that roster.

Yeah, I mean, bottom line, the sun's got better, but it's incomplete. It's hard to judge what type of team they'll actually have until we know what they do with DeAndre Aiton, who they target in free agency, and how this roster shapes up. At this point, it's an upgrade for now, but we don't know what the rest of the team is going to look like.

It was the right decision to make. Chris Paul is still solid, but he's nowhere near what he was over the first two and a half years of the Sons when he helped lead them into becoming a finals team, making playoff runs. But at this point, you know, it is very clearly an upgrade. Like, Shamit, you got to respect Landry Shamit,

a good guy. he hustles, he plays hard. Why does everybody want to get rid of him? Yeah, he's not a good basketball player. So Bradley Beale is a significant upgrade. And I think with Beal, there's been like, this is not Nets part two for Kevin Durant. That team was great in its own right.

James Harden, the playmaker, Kyrie, a versatile piece. They had some very good teams. But this is different in the sense that Bradley Beale has a history of thriving off ball. Booker does as well. so does KD. So this is going to be a different flavor

than what we've seen with those past iterations for Kevin Durant with Brooklyn and with the Warriors and with Oklahoma City. This is something different. So I look forward to seeing how the rest of this roster takes shape

because that's going to determine what type of system Frank Vogel installs for them. And I think we're going to see a lot of point book, a lot of Booker running point for them at this current stage. Yeah, I am always of the opinion that you have the stars and you fill it out with role players.

You've got your two guys and you fill it out with role players. We just praise Calvin Booth. It's like, all right, you got your guys. These are going to be your high volume guys. These are going to be your high usage guys. Now, fill it out with role players, right? Get you, Candavius Caldwell Pope. Get you Bruce Brown.

Nail a draft pick in Christian Brown. Find another guy that could give you some minutes in Jeff Green on a cheap contract, right? Like this is this is exactly what we talked about. And that's my great concern is, A, it's not how I build a team. I understand why it's happening. My two are, that's not how I think you should build a team. I think you've got your two super duper stars.

And you just have to fill out great guys that understand their role around them. And I will see if Brad Beale can be, Ray Allen, you know what I mean, as it were, if we're going to go back to some time that it worked, or Chris Bosch, for that matter, right? The teams that threw together big stars, and it did actually work, you know, the guy that can thrive as a guy doing less. And maybe Brad Beals perfect for that at this point in his career. We've seen him average 30 points a game. And so maybe he can be the Ray Allen. Maybe he can be the Chris Bosch. but he's going to need to be because he's clearly the third best of those three. We talked about Boston.

We talked about Milwaukee. We've talked about Denver. Most recently, these teams that have exuded a tremendous amount of patience and seen it through Golden State as well and have reaped the benefits from it. And it feels like are you going to be patient if it doesn't work? It's very hard to be patient when you're paying a bazillion dollars for a team. and so are you going to be able to see it through let guys go and maybe losing the playoffs before you win in the playoffs uh or is this just going to be a man i spent a billion dollars

win now win that and if it doesn't work then you're bailing on it and in a couple years you're going into rebuild and we've got the net thing all over how crazy would that be what karma would that be if those net picks goes out forever, you know, on the Durant's deal? And so imagine if by the time those nets picks come around, you know, this owner has just decided, okay, we took our run at the title and it didn't work. And so now we're going to start rebuilding. And then those picks end up being great. It would be kind of crazy because those picks go out a lot.

long way. Yeah, well, the net's got to feel like they're winners here in the sense that the suns are going even more all in in the short term. Yeah, they're going to be feeling good here as a team that was uninvolved in this trade, but they have the future value there. And for the wizard's side of things, we haven't talked about them with the flip side of this. I mean, what a bummer. What a disappointment. This is all you get for Bradley Beal after everybody kind of saw this coming once he got that no trade clause. But I mean, I know there's mixed reports about their intentions on wanting DeAndre Ait and they're not wanting DeAndreate and I've heard they didn't want Aiton that they wanted expiring deals so that they could then set up

to take on bad money and future assets. I think that's the path that they intend on going here. But ultimately for the Wizards, I mean, the fact you also gave up Isaiah Todd, granted he was not good in the G League last year. And Goodwin, who's a tough, hard-nosed defender off your bench last year, it's a two-way guy. The fact you're also giving up those two guys, too, it's just like, man, they really held you over our barrel in this deal to get all that. Two things. Number one.

Oh, one last comment on Phoenix. Look, when we're talking about not having patience going for it now, you've got Kevin to rent. You have to go try to win the title right now. Of course. You have no time to be patient when you've got Kevin Durant. He doesn't have, we don't have unlimited time here in terms of, him being the guy when you're getting into, you know, this many seasons in the league.

So on the wizard side, yeah, it sucks. You obviously should have traded Brad Beale before you gave him $200 million and a no trade, as you wrote in your column. I mean, it's just an egregious mistake, truly. Yeah, big time. And being said, if I am Michael Winger, they're in this weird spot where, I don't think that they, I don't think there was the market for Brad Beal

that maybe was conjured up. I don't think they had a lot of options here. And of course, Phoenix, of course you'd want first rounders back. Newsflash, Phoenix ain't got that. You can't get that, right? And so at that point, I can't get first rounders.

If I'm him, like anybody that's taking over a team and you're going to blow the whole thing up, then you just, I want the deck as cleared as I can get it. And so, yeah, it sucks. I'm not getting return, but I also don't want return

that's money on my books going forward. Like, I want the best opportunity to mold this roster into whatever the next incarnation of it's going to be. And having money on the books for somebody going forward that could hamstring me from that, like I said to you when we go back to the Kuzma thing, now I take Kuzma, I take for Zingas,

and I get as much as I possibly can for them. I don't let them hit unrestricted. I get as much value as I can. And that means I'm trying to get draft picks. I'm trying to get young players. I'm trying to get what I can back for them. Young players that maybe I believe in and draft picks, as many as I can for those guys.

And again, without putting a ton of money on the books, and then I get to start my rebuild. So yeah, it sucks. But in terms of what you want back, I mean, the other thing, Phoenix doesn't have is anybody with like some promise. You'd love for them to have like somebody that was like roster spot 10 for 15 that you could have gone and get that turns out to be something really good, maybe down the road that didn't get his opportunity yet or whatever.

There was no young player to go snatch that might have some promise to them. And so I think that's what I'm trying to do with the rest of my roster. I'm blowing that thing up and I'm just trying to get young guys and draft picks, right? Look at you, Verna. Flow it up. I love it. At this point, what are they? I mean, they already have, Deb.

Yeah, no, they already have, yeah, for sure. I'm with you. I have you kind of, I mean, if you did check out my article today, you saw the Chris Stapps-Borzingis blurb in there about how I mentioned stuff we talked about. But no, no, it's not all stuff we talked about. Because, yes, you talked about, I think this guy could do this. I think this guy could do this. I think he could help.

You brought up Miami. as a good fit in some other teams. The stats you had in that column on drop coverage and posting up, you remember when the posting up thing was such a big freaking deal on Carlisle and how they just did not want to do it.

He wasn't good at it. He was ahead of Yokic. Yeah, I mean, as a score. On points per possession. That's crazy. So the staff that I had, in there for the listeners here. So on the ringer, I had an article with like

seven blurbs about stuff happening around the league, and one of them was about the Wizards and Poor Zingis. It was kind of a follow-up to our conversation last week. And one of the stats in there, I had his points per closeout. He was top five in the league and

efficiency on attacking into two-point range on close-outs. He used to struggle off the dribble. Points per post-up, he was number one in the NBA when a tempting to score from the post. So this doesn't include passes like Yokic, obviously, is better than anybody. But the top five, number five was Pascal Seyakum, four in B, three, Luca, two, Yokic.

And number one, Chris Stavs, Porzing is at 1.29 points per post up. He's gotten a lot better from the post in recent years, especially last season with the Wizards. And he was also number four in points allowed per pick and roll behind Anthony Davis, Stephen Adams, Yonison for the Coupo, and right ahead of Walker Kessler. So KP had his healthiest season, 65 games. He also had his most productive season, aside from the volume scoring we saw from him in the past. To me, I think the Wizards, if he opts in, flip them. If he ops out, there should be a lot of teams going for sign and trades.

It really doesn't change the equation too much for the Wizards to move on from him. That's right. I'm just trying to get the maximum amount of value. Yes. Again, I'm walking in there as a new guy who I just want a completely clean slate. You know, I'm done with this. This wasn't my roster. This roster was made thinking about with Brad Beale in mind.

That was their franchise guy. That was the guy making $200 million. And they're also now guys that are not going to fit my timeline of winning. Orzingis doesn't fit my timeline of winning. winning. Kuzma doesn't fit my timeline of winning. I'm going young. I'm building this thing out. And I'm going to try to do it, you know, the right way on the rebuild. And hopefully I get lucky and hopefully I nail some draft picks immediately. But I'm trying to just clear the books as much as I can and get as many assets as I can in return for what was on that roster. I was just going to have to take an L on the beel crap.

The guys got a horrible contract and a no trade. I can't ding them too much for the shit return they got. Because that's a bad contract and a no trade clause. I just said it's the one concern or one of the concerns I have on the Phoenix side. Like if it don't work, it's still hard to get. get out of. You know, it'll be a harder.

50 million dollars and telling you no if you want to move him to somebody that you could actually get, you find a partner for it. It'll be even harder as he gets older as well. Right. And his value's not going up. We're never seeing the 30 point per game, Brad Beale again as long as he's in Phoenix.

He's the third best player on that team. and so he's going to have to be Ray Allen he's going to have to be Chris Bosch he's going to have to fall in line and so now you're viewed as the third best player on a team you're not even the second best player

on a team and so yeah like I don't know I just don't I of course when I saw it I was like Jesus they got nothing because they'll move off of Paul. Maybe they can flip Paul for something.

They're trying, evidently, right? That's the word out there. Maybe they could get some meager return. What do you think about that warrior's interest that multiple people have reported that the warriors like him? What do you think about that? I would not be surprised with anybody being, anybody that is trying to win tomorrow,

I would not be surprised that they were interested in Chris Ball. I think anybody that's trying to win next year would be interested in him. Mm-hmm. I do. Think anybody. Anybody that, anybody is trying to win tomorrow

because he's literally a win next year player. That's what you hope. Yep. And again, he doesn't have to be the guy. He doesn't have to be the guy. He doesn't even have to be the second guy. on I think most of the teams that are going to be interested in him or wherever he ends up.

But if Chris Paul can just be the role-playing smart, great culture, locker room guy, I mean, that we've seen, we saw Jason Kidd fall into this, the Lakers don't win that bubble title without Rondo. You know, like elder statesman smart, been in the mix, make some plays, shocked the world with a couple big games in the playoffs or maybe even the finals. And I still believe Chris Ball could help someone win at the highest level, just not as the best player on the team or the second best player on the team or maybe even the third best. But as a role playing point guard, he could be dynamite, dynamite for somebody.

So yeah, anybody trying to win next year, bringing him in makes sense to me. Yeah, I'm with you there. I mean, I think he still has something to offer, even though he's declined. I'd be curious to see him. For the Warriors specifically, I don't think the fit makes as much sense as the Lakers or the Clippers do, but I'm intrigued because with Draymond Green at this point, I said this to Tate Fraser on Through the Ringer this morning. We were kind of just riffing. I'm curious about your thoughts on this, Chris.

We were just riffing on Warriors' interest in Chris Ball. And like the news had just come out Monday morning that Draymond Green was opting out of his contract and he'll hit unrestricted free agency. And the thought came up where like, well, hey, if Draymond were to leave for Phoenix or Dallas or somewhere else, wouldn't Chris Paul make sense for Golden State? It's kind of that new guy who's that guy bringing the ball up the floor,

helping facilitate like Draymond does for years. Different type of player, obviously. Draymond Green and Chris Paul. But in terms of the role within the Warriors offense, he kind of makes sense as a contingency plan for the potential loss of a Draymond Green, right? Yeah, I'd worry about obviously the defense. Oh, of course.

He's just the heart and soul of the whole thing. Traymond is. And I think the one that I heard was if Hardin does the Houston thing, and that's obviously a wait and see. Philly could use him if James goes off. If he goes off somewhere and Darrell had him in Houston, so that would not be the most shocking thing. And I think he could, I think he could even help Maxie in a way that he helped Gilgis Alexander

become a huge star. I think, you know, takes Maxie under his wing too, but also Maxie is there. as your contingency plan no matter. And maybe back to you by the time you get to playoff time is starting and Paul's, you know, okay with that. I think that that's a decent fit. And, you know, that whole Draymond thing,

I saw the Rich Paul quotes. That was weird going on the record, huh? Yeah, I know they've got a new GM and Mike Dunleave Jr. I remember years ago when, and this is a different case, but even our beloved Bill, when he got that suspension from ESPN and everything started going like the wrong way and whatever. And I remember talking to someone and I'm like, so you think he's going to, you know,

everybody was like speculating. His contract's up. His contracts up. What's going to happen? And of course, to our great benefit, he started the ringer after, after he left there. Thank goodness. But I remember asking, I remember asking a mutual friend of us. I was like, so you think they'll, you think he'll stay?

And they're like, absolutely not. Absolutely not, right? Like, it's just too much it happened. Too much it happened. He's going to be moving on, right? And I thought to myself, and again, totally different situations. But I guarantee you that Dremont resents the hell out of that place. Now, he did this to himself.

No question. He did this to himself. with the pool stuff. But I would never get over the fact that that tape came out. I wouldn't. Personally. I wouldn't.

And Dunley being his press conference, talked about Jordan Poole being on this team for four years. And hopefully more, he said. Yeah. So everyone freely admitted that that screwed everything up, including Dremont himself. Draymond could not be the leader he had always been there because of that happening.

It never was right. And you and I talked about this when it first happened. Well, imagine if you went to work every day and you're around somebody that everybody saw you punch you in the face. It's just, it's never not going to be weird. It's never not going to be weird. Ever. So you've got to make a choice to me. Either Draymond Green's going to be on that team or Jordan Poole is going to be on that team. That whole idea that, yeah, they can both coexist and they'll be simpatico. It's never going to be normal. It's always going to be hanging out there. And you know he feels like somebody there hung him out to drive. Oh, they were going to do their investigation. Like, where's that investigation? ago. We ever found out how the tape got out? I mean, I've been in practices, bro.

They ain't open. There's only X number of people in that thing. So it would not be hard to figure out who was running a camera upstairs the day that this guy got floored. And so I would feel like, I don't know, I feel like my own team wanted that out there. Somebody wanted that out there, not just some rogue employee out to get Dremont, that deep down everybody was okay with that being out there. Whether it was to publicly shame him, whether it was to make it okay that they aren't signing them up to a long-term contract, whether it's making it okay to overpay Jordan Poole, whatever reason. And so, you know, it's like, yeah, okay, they just went on and everything was cool, just like. the Bill thing. Bill came back and he was still working at ESPN.

But then as soon as that contract was up, man, no, man, I'm out of here. So to me, Tramon's out of there. He's out of there. And I think that you'll, the funny thing is, it'll be a great podcast when he leaves. Well, it'll be good for content if he leaves. Right? Like it'd be great content, a great part of his story, why I left the Warriors. that podcast would drop and everybody, including you and I, would rush to go listen to that

or we'd be waking up in the morning rolling over and ground out It'd be the highest rated podcast. Yes. Why I left the Warriors, you know? Yes. Why I'm joining,

why I'm reuniting with Kevin Durantz on the Sons. Why I'm joining Luca, right? Like, whatever it is. Why I'm joining LeBron James of the Lakers.

Whatever the storyline, it would be a band And for Draymond on his side of things, doesn't party you get it? Maybe being the first, actually the second, Bob Myers was the first to jump ship. If you're the second behind Bob, maybe you're one of the early ones who gets off before the train kind of goes off the rails hair with the Warriors. Hey, man. Hey, hey, hey, I'll take him in Memphis. Yeah, I'm sure you would love him.

Hey, next to his buddy. Hey, with Jared Jackson. Jackson Jr.'s Michigan State guy. He loves Moran, and he famously said to Dylan Brooks, the dynasty starts after you. Yeah. And what if he comes in and then helps start the dynasty? Andy jumps Jaws' ass and gets him in line. I take it.

Maybe he'll throw some haymakers of Jha. What, no, seriously. Like, what did he was like 9.8. rebound seven assists or something on 50-something percent from the field. I mean, every team can use that. And I also think that Draymond probably has always wanted to prove that he's not, that he's not what people say he is, which is a Steph Curry coat rider. Yeah.

I think he would love nothing more to go somewhere, help some team win big, golden state go the wrong way, and then him be able to say, Oh, Mr. Coatrider's gone and they can't win. The defense stinks and now it ain't as easy when I'm not around, huh? Maybe you should have respected what I brought to the table. And I think that's a possibility. It would be legacy defining for him to do it away from Steph, for sure. Yes.

I think that's part of it. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be fascinating. I mentioned the sons to you. do you think trading DeAndre Aiton for Draymond Green if Draymond forced his way to the suns and said, hey, this is where I want to go, sign and trade me here. Getting Aitin back for the Warriors wouldn't be so bad. You know, he's 24, 25 years old.

It'd be, you know, a solid effort. And I would bet my life as a Michigan state guy, there's nothing more that Matt Ishbia would love to have happened than to acquire Draymond Green. Yep, that's for sure. He is the Michigan State guy. Yep. To get.

He's the one. You know, when that job, well, you remember when he got rid of Monty? I remember asking people like, you think he'll go get Izzo? You know, all these college basketball coaches, especially like the old ones, they are sick of this crap with college, with guys. It's just a different world. They can transfer. They don't play. Other people are recruiting their players.

They've got to set it up. It's almost like their agents or they got to help make sure they got the NIL thing all squared away, whatever. And so you see guys leaving the J. Wrights of the world, Shosheski, you saw Roy Williams. See all these guys like going off into the sunset. Beheim just did it last year. And I was like, you know, I'm sure that Izzo, if he ever wanted to test it in the NBA,

wouldn't this be an unbelievable time? So I just figured, hey, I bet that guy, I bet the Michigan State guy that now owns the team that played for him. And you remember, Dan Gilbert tried to hire him in Cleveland. So it would be the ultimate double bird to Dan Gilbert if he then could go higher Tom is. And somebody told me he does not want to be, he doesn't want to be hated by Michigan State. It's very, you got to really tiptoe around that. because it's like, yeah, you're the Michigan State guy, but you'd also be the guy responsible for taking Tom Izzo away from Michigan State.

And so it's a little testy. And obviously he ended up Frank Vogel and hired a good coach for sure, right? Yeah, he did. He doesn't have any Michigan State yet. And you know he's going to try to go get it. And that would be the ultimate one to go get if you could pull it off is to get Draymond. And obviously, Draymond, with Beal Booker and Troy. rant is like, okay, that's a different world now.

That ain't Jack Landell. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, to me, Draymond, that he'd be, he's the guy I want next if I'm the sons, you know, I'm going hard after Draymond. I'm, I'm doing, if I'm Kevin Aran, I'm doing the reverse recruitment now and saying, hey, time to come to Phoenix and do it with a different group of guys. Let's do it again here without Stefan Curry.

And let's, let's win a lot here for years. to come. That's the pitch I'm making to Draymond Green now that they've rekindled their relationship since he left Golden State. They did their podcast together, their buddies again. It's not the craziest thing in the world though, because then it gives you a big

and he then doesn't play, Aiton's was going to hate it in Phoenix because he bitches and quits every time he's not a major focal point. But if you just turned it into Steph Pick and Roll basketball and that becomes his pick and roll partner.

Like, then he's happy. You probably get the most out of him. You need a big guy against Yokic. It's a shame we didn't really, we didn't get to see them against Denver, just to see what it would have looked like, right? And what they would have done with, what would have won out?

Is their small ball, you know, really hurt Denver? or would have just gotten absolutely mashed because they have nothing for Yokic. So look, I can't stand Aiton. But, again, if you already know Dremont's leaving you, if he's going somewhere, like, and that's just the way it's going to be, you know, I mean, you want to get something back. So if you're going to do a sign of trade, and then you just decide we're going to play

Steph Curry pick and roll basketball I'd be very intrigued I'm very intrigued now that that would change everything about what you think the son I mean God bless the sons would have a that guy would be spending literally

a billion dollars on the team not not yet payroll to be clear those the harshest tax people penalties don't kick in until the 25-26 season.

So Phoenix, all these other teams that could be in the second apron, they have this season and next season before those crazy, crazy, harsh repeater tax penalties go in for the 25-26 season. So this all doesn't happen at once. This year is with the trade limitations, not having the mid-level for taxpayers. But next year is when the frozen draft picks happen, which trade. triggers after multiple years. So, like, this year, there's changes.

It makes it tougher. Like, you still can't sign bio guys this year. But, like, it's not, it's not the craziest stuff. That's not until 25, 26. That's for so, there's really two years for the suns to go wild and spend all they want. Hey, that's a penalty significant. And that's when you, uh, this when you just don't go to the mailbox. Because you open up that envelope.

open, you see that bill and you're like, oh no, what have I done? What have I done? You know, and the other thing on the Golden State front, I always thought Drayvon was going to resent that they took care of the other guys always in advance and he didn't get taken care of like that. They let his hang out there. Then they put out, you know, then the video gets out there. Like, I've just thought that's going to end. I thought they were going to trade him last year. I really, really did. So I actually don't think that this is the craziest idea ever, honestly, and that if you're going to get something for him, because you want to get something for him, for sure, they'll still have to make their decisions. I mean, they're paying a fortune for

their team already, and they got to make, like, even Tenzo ain't picking up that $4.7 million option. So, I mean, like, they're going to just, it didn't have that many guys they could trust to play. And Dante was even one of them last year. But he's going to get paid a lot more than that. So they're going to have to figure out what they're doing to fill out the rest of their roster to make them a team that can win with Steph Curry. Because same thing is Phoenix, you're kind of, and you may, I guess if you're Golden State, you may just not want to make Phoenix that good. seriously. So I guess that's a thought, but

much like Durant, you better build out around Curry now. This is not a infinite timeline. And maybe in the end, I'm wrong. They'll just sign Draymond up long term and Tramond will be a warrior for life.

I just, I don't know, man. Not after what he said about pool being there. Well, this could all be just about leverage for Draybond. All this flirting with Dallas and all that could all be about driving up the price of the Warriors. And he ends up staying running up back and they keep competing for the playoffs and they hope for championships. What have done?

Hey, yeah. What have done leave you would have said, I expect Jordan Fool to be here four more years and even longer. I know. I know. And the reason I think that is because nobody wants his ass. Have you seen that contract?

Of course he's going to be here. I can't move him. Look at that contract he signed him to. He doesn't get $120 million. It's unfortunately a fair statement. Mike Dunley, he walked into it, didn't he? It's like, hey, Mike, now we're at the crescendo of this whole long run of success, winning a title just a year ago.

and now Drainbond's a free agent. You got a $120 million pool party and which of these young guys do you believe in? Moody, comminga, the rest of them. Better make your decision on those guys too. It's like, man, oh man. Not an easy job. No, not an easy job he's walking into.

Yeah, a lot of pressure. It is going to be fun to watch the draft coming up this week. and trade possibilities abound. I was reading both your mock draft and other draft coverage on the plane ride home today and a lot of interesting stuff about how you and I, and we've been talking since the lottery, since the lottery got decided that,

once you get past one, anything is possible. But you see so many of those teams also that are in this rebuild mode and where they could be, they've got enough young players on their team now so they don't necessarily, they're not necessarily married to the pick and they may be able to use that pick

to teams like the phoenixes of the world, like teams that are, or the Golden States or whoever, somebody out there to get, a player because maybe just having a young player on their roster that's got some promise is more valuable to them or maybe even a veteran is more valuable to them than maybe adding another young player to their roster right now. And so it seems like everybody from two to ten, certainly ten's going to move their pick in Dallas. But from two to ten, they could all, you could

talked yourself into a way that they would be willing to move their pick. And two becomes the most fascinating. And that's because we know that there is at least one team that covet Scoot Henderson might be even more. And I was reading your column just to prove I read it. You've done an about face on the Zion stuff. You would trade Zion. I would trade Zion, yes.

Wow. I would trade Zion. You're done with it. You're like Mariah Mills. Can't take it anymore. Yeah, I'm releasing tapes. I hope there's not a tape of you, but you've had enough just like she has.

Is that blackmail what she posted about? Of course, it's blackmail. Come on. It doesn't seem like she doesn't play by the rule. No, she doesn't. She does not play by the rules, brother. No. Anyways, Mariah Mills aside.

Yeah, Mariah Mills aside. You're also done with Zion. I mean, I'm not done with Zion. I'd be trading him for the number two or the number three pick in a draft with some really high-level prospects. So being done with him is relative to the value you'd be getting in return for him, which is significant. What value? what value? Yeah, what would your value have to be, is what I'm saying.

I mean, if you're getting Scoot Henderson, that's really good value for a guy that has played 114 games, an average of 28.5 over four years, has suffered injuries that you have concerns about with his work ethic and his focus on the game, and his relationship with teammates, and his leadership, and his intensity,

and focus on defense. And a lot of things. Like, it's a long list of concerns that you have after four years. years with him as the Pelicans. So I think for them, getting the number two pick or the number three pick in the draft is a significant return. That's a lot to get. And depending on what other pieces are involved, either you're sending out or they're sending

out or both sides are, I think you could kind of reshuffle the deck and get a young asset, a young player on a rookie contract, which is valuable to a franchise, as we've talked about, and recalibrate with what you're going with all your other existing young talent. I'm not saying dump them for nothing. I'm just saying you're getting the significant value in return, and this could be the last year, anything remotely close to that is returnable for Zion. The only way I would listen to it is if, obviously,

and look, I could be persuaded by somebody in New Orleans for sure. It just tells me, look, bro, it is never going to happen here. Too much has happened. Too much has happened. And he's held this franchise hostage, and maybe I'll just have to live with it if he goes and becomes a top 10 player in the league and one of the all-time best players

and he gets his, he grows older, he gets in shape, he does the rehab, somebody can get him in line, and he's in a healthier state of mind and he cares enough that he becomes a true pro. But because of everything that's going on, here. We're never getting that out of him. Babied him too much at the beginning. And now this is what we hath rot.

And so we'd rather just move on. Rather just move on. I get it. I get it. I'd be, as I told you, I'd be terrified. Oh, me too. I'd be scared to move to him. That he was like, like the guy just comes back next year.

And he's like, oh, really? and maybe that's the wake-up call he would need, and then he gets into shape. We know he's about to have a kid. Maybe that gets him to be a more responsible guy too, you know, settles him down a little bit. You never know. She's, I just, it's a scary one.

You would not trade Ingram for the second pick, though, hey? I trade both of them. I'd get two and three. Oh, wow. So you would. You would move Ingram. If Charlotte says we don't want Zion, it's like 114 games.

And we're in Charlotte. We don't think that he's... We don't have the structure to make sure he becomes... Let me make this clear, Chris. If I trade, if I trade Ingram to Charlotte for number two, I would also want to trade Zion to Portland for number three. I don't like the Scoot Henderson's Zion Williamson combination. I don't love that combination to build with moving forward.

think there's enough reliable shooting. It's a big bet on Scoot Henderson to become a knockdown guy. Granted, Fred Vincent is the perfect shooting coach to pair with him. Yeah, I wouldn't love that combination. So I'd want to deal both if I'm also giving Ingram. You know what I'm saying there? Like then I'm talking megatrades. Talk about blowing it up, right?

Oh, well, then, hey, look, you moved into Portland. Obviously, they've had, they've gone to hell and back with injured players over there. years as a franchise going all the way back to Bill Walton. That being said, Nike's right there. They could stay on his ass. Yeah, that helped, I think. That is where he went. Remember when he went to Portland that whole season?

He wasn't even rehabbing where the team was. Like, they just, you know, they treated him with kit gloves and different than everybody else from the very beginning. And so I get it. I get it. it's just they can't he's he's broken trust and they don't think that he's ever going to be the guy that they wanted him to be being there and so torn man up toward you know i love scoot too but geez it's tough man anytime you're trying to move somebody that could be one of the best 10 players in the league there's there's not many of those guys you could say that which

Which Zion can. I'm not sure about it. Of course he can. Yeah. Of course he can. You know, it seems as if, though, even by number two, we could have, like, big drama. Yeah. Big drama.

And I was even reading some fun ones. Like, you know, on Gavoni stuff, I was reading there. I keep throughout one that was fun. It was like, it got down to where they were, it was like, I think it was the 10th pick. And he was like, and there's a. you know, options here, like maybe Detroit, Bogdanovich and 31 for Hardaway and 10. And I'm like, that is

incredibly specific. Right? Like, Magnanovic and 31 for Hardaway and 10. And I was like, you know, it's actually a really awesome trade. I think for both, if you love somebody at 10, because, you know, obviously Detroit's on a timeline where they're a little ways away from

winning. It gets back. Donovich next to Luca. Nice little tough, hard-nosed small forward that can space the floor alongside, just banging corner threes. Luca's, Luca and Kyrie theoretically running all them picking rolls and somebody to throw it to the corner that can knock down threes. I kind of like that trade that was just thrown out there, but that's the kind of fun stuff that could take place, right?

The draft is going to be active, Chris. That's for sure. It's going to be active. And like the order, what it is now, I think it's presently impossible to do a mock draft. I know. There's so many discussions. I feel like you've gotten higher on the Thompson's reading your stuff.

Yeah. I mean, I like, I think Amen and us are the both of them, they're high floor players in the sense that they're going to, they're six, seven. They're going to be able to provide you versatile defense for years. they're selfless players, they're smart, they're hardworking, they're good passers, their dynamic at-rim finishers.

They have all these skills that are going to allow them to thrive in the NBA for an 82 game regular season for years. The question is going to be, how important are they going to be in a playoff setting? A lot of that's going to come down to the development of their jumper, their role, their supporting cast. If they're drafted to a good situation, and maybe this. turned into a nature versus nurture thing with an Aman and Astar as similar

as they are. Maybe one of them goes to a good situation. One of them goes to a bad situation. But I just think both of them have a strong foundation for a long, fruitful career and the athletic upside, the hardworking, the intelligence, the openness

to change, they're changing their shooting mechanics and all that. That if they can figure out the jumper, those kids both have superstar potential. So I get them, I have Aesar like barely ahead of Amen on my board. I mean, I'm not sure. I mean, like, with those two, a lot of it,

like, I would flip Ahmed ahead of Osar depending on the fit. Like, if Amman's in a better situation, I would wish I had him ahead. But we don't know what that's going to look like. So entering the draft, I'll give Osara a slight edge because he's shown more as a shooter,

and he's been a better defender for the last two, three years. You cannot tell them apart when you're watching them, though. You really got to look, the number of the jersey. I saw them in person do a workout as we talked about before. That's right before they went to overtime elite. And like the entire time I was asking which one is that?

I mean, they have the same haircut. Yeah, it's tough. Like they are so identical. So identical. And I've got these, I've got some videos on my phone that I took that and I'm talking like just them screwing around like I'm talking like tomahawks off of vert just under the basket leap up bah like you just don't I've been in a million NBA gyms you just don't see it they are freco athletes yeah they are so quick hit so fast off the deck so

fast and when I saw this I remember Mike Miller was at the thing And I looked over at Mike Miller after one of them kids just, I mean, the ball is like bouncing underneath the goal. And the kid just, I think it was Amen. He just picks it up and just jumped straight up, cocks it back and slams it down. And the thing like, you know, spikes down like a volleyball or something. And I look over at him and I'm like, Jesus. Like what?

Like they don't make them like this. Well, I mean, it's not just open, open court either. like Amen has this dunk that he had in the finals against the Dreamers. It was in the third game. So this was the clinching game. I think it was like second quarter. I was watching it earlier today if somebody wants to pull it up. But like he he drove from like the left side of the wing into the middle of the paint.

And then he spun from his right back to his left and just like immediately from the spin move leaps into the air and yams on the defender who was on. him. It was like just unbelievable athleticism. He doesn't need any space to launch and get to the basket. He is genuinely like an elite, the elite of the elite athletes. Like they are so special.

Amman's the better athlete than Osar. Osir is the better shooter. But like, I mean, those, both of them are. Fast twitch to the bone. Yes. Just all fast fast. Yep. So quick.

And yeah, they've got a, they've got a chance to be super, super special, you know. And there's some guys I like. There's some guys I like in this track, for sure. Yeah, are you going to do like your no fail? Is that going to happen this year? I'm not doing, I'm not doing the no fail. Oh, you know, I will tell you.

You're golf and you're golf. No, I will tell you. Hey, look, well, we talked about him on a pod, whatever. I'm, you know, I love Anthony Black. I love him. Yeah. Why don't we do it on the pod next week? We don't have to do Chris Vernon written content.

Why don't we do Chris Vernon's no fail list on like next Tuesday? Before? I mean, yeah, I guess. See, we're not, I get. This is the last one before. What if we do it? What if we do it posts, draft, Chris Vernon's no fail list? These are the best fits, the best prospects that I like.

Oh, that's even better because then it's based on their placement. Yeah, placement and the player, like how you feel about them. So I would tell, look, look, I would tell you, and I'll scroll through this really quick. off the top of my head. Scoot Anderson, 100% to me. 100% what? I just want to make sure I'm understanding. Can't fail.

Can't fail. Okay. So like he's going to be a good player or 100% a great player? No, no. These are, the whole concept of that was there's people, there's teams that we look back every year and there's busts. And even in the top five, even in the top five, you're like, that guy is.

not having to go. Anthony Black will not fail. No way. The guy you wrote about today on Twitter, Keante George, I do not think, Keonté George. Keonté George is not going to fail. Okay.

He's not going to fail. Grady Dick won't fail either. No way. Again, just too good of a shooter. I'd bet on Jed Howard. Hmm. Not failing. He's like two,

too big, too skilled as a score, right? Yeah, I just don't think you'll fail. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not, and I'm not going through every single, I'm all the way down almost to the first round. Yeah, okay, there's the ones on the first rounds. Cool. Yeah, there you go.

There's some that I really liked. And then I'm trying to scroll here in the second round to see if there's anybody that's the, you know, I famously went crazy when people were drafting Jalen Brunson on our pod years ago, and that's turned out great. Jaylen Brunson. I never expected Jail Brunson to be that amazing. But I'm wondering if there's any of those guys, it doesn't really look like. Like the famous, you know, conference player of the year type guy in a big conference

that everybody admits is very good and yet is ranked entirely too low. Is there one that I'm missing here that is, is there anybody I'm missing that's like that that would fall into that Jay Crowder, Draymond Green, Colby Jones, Charleston, Chandler Parsons, who? Colby Jones, I think you'd like him. Missouri? Yeah, Colby Jones is Xavier. Oh, Xavier, save.

Yeah, I think you'd like him. Keonti Johnson's a kid that had the heart thing, right? Yep, yep. I mean, he's always been good. Mm-hmm. I like him. Yeah, there's not really that guy, right? Maybe sasser, but, geez, I don't know.

I don't think that there's, there's not the obvious one anymore of the guys that will be the, you know. We went through that for a long time. It's like, yeah, of course he's good. He was SEC player of the year. Yeah, surprise, surprise. Jay Crowder's got a long career. He's big East player of the year. Oh, Draymond Green's good

He's Big Ten Player of the Year. Oh, Jalen Brunson's good. He's National Player of the Year. It's like the obvious guy. Maybe this, what about the UCLA one? The Jack Wes. He's a senior. Hades.

Hades. He was a senior. Yeah, I like him a bunch. He could be a top 20 pick. So he was a senior, right? Maybe that fits the, does he fit the mold of what I'm talking about? I think so. I like him a lot.

Was he packed to a player? of the year? Who went Pac-12 player of the year? Hell if I know. I mean, I don't we don't even get the Pack 12 network.

Nobody does. Yeah, he was. He did win it. Yeah, that's right. There you go. Benedict Mathrin the year before. This is the, this is actually pretty good list.

There you go. There, you got, Hamehakis. Listen to these guys. Hamé Hockes, Benedict Matherin, Evan Mobley, Peyton Pritchard,

Jalen, DeAndre Aiton, and you're a guy, Dylan Brooks in 2016-17. He's got a career. He's got a career, yeah. Hey, that was, look,

as much as I couldn't stand him, and now the Rockets fans, I suppose, are going to get to root for him. It's an amazing draft pick for where he was drafted. Yeah. I mean,

the guy was drafted in the 40s. There's another one. Pack 12 player of the year. So there you go. Remember we're talking about this. Hami Hawkes, who I call it Jokwa is at the beginning. Hami Hawkees. There you go.

I mean, it is a J and we're American, no, white dudes, you know. But that's, hey, that's the one. That's the one. It happens every year, Kevin. You've got him at what? You've got him at 30th? I have on the mock.

No, something like that. Lower. 32 of my board. He's going to be top 20 on my updated mock draft on Tuesday morning on the ringer. mock draft he's 35th he will be top 20 on my update on Tuesday you're moving him top 20 because of this conversation

no no the bach draft is based off intel and I've there's like rumblings about him in the late teams early 20s so I'm moving him for the for this next mock to the late teens based off that intel in recent days

P.S another one that fits this mold that we saw last year who was drafted did much higher than anyone had him. Our guy in Memphis, David Roddy, who came to our live show. Yep, that's true. And Roddy's going to be a player.

But he was, you know, conference player of the year, Mount West Conference Player of the Year, but kind of, you know, the ageist thing gets you. But there's one. There's a Hamihaka is,

at least that's a guy that's a little bit lower on the box that kind of fits that bill. We've been talking about that for 70, years, Kevin. There's always, yeah, oh, surprise, surprise, this guy's good in the pros. Every time he played in college, he was good. And he's good. There's some guys that obviously cannot, you know, they can be good college players and then crap pros. That for sure happens. But there's also a lot of cases where if a guy proved to be the best player in a conference

that had a lot of good players in it, pretty good chance that he's a good basketball player. Yeah. Yep. You know. So there you go there. I did that right off the top of my head. I don't even have to write it, which I almost would just because I read on Twitter last week that the guy that used to edit all those and made me sound like I wasn't an idiot was Danny Chow and I saw he's back.

Yep. He's coming on the Ringers NBA draft show this week on Tuesday. He's coming on. Excited to have Danny Chow on the talk draft and unleash his tape. I look forward to hearing about the players. He likes and dislikes, and it'll be a lot of fun. I'm excited to have Danny on and talk to. I haven't talked to him for years on a podcast, so it'll be great.

Jeff, if I could find it, I would love. You know what, maybe I'll look forward at some point. I don't know where that file is. Because, you know, I couldn't care if people would like goof on me. If I could find it, I would love to put out what I sent him and then what was printed on the ringer. And people would realize this guy is like a modern day throw. He's a great writer.

Oh, unbelievable. Like, truly. Yeah, he's a great writer. What I sent him versus what got printed. Yeah. I'm not a writer. So I don't care of everybody. Danny Chow is a,

is a wordsmith. He is. He made my thoughts. Like, everything I was trying to say, he said it like it should be said if you didn't write at a sixth grade level. Yeah, he does. He has a tendency to do that. He's very good.

So I'm forever indebted to Dan Ann. I'm glad he's been. back at the ringer. Me too. That's great to have Danny back. Oh, I can't wait for the draft. We are going to record on Friday after the draft has wrapped up, and so we will react, and we'll find out where all these kids end up,

and some of them are going to go to great situations for their careers, and some of them are going to go to less than great situations for their careers. And then we can kind of evaluate that as well.

Kevin, it's always a pleasure. It is draft week. Fun, fun, fun week to say the least. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always, and I will talk to you on Friday. Have a great week, everybody.