The Mismatch - The Andrew Wiggins Game, What Went Wrong With the Celtics, and Meeting Paolo Banchero

Episode Date: June 14, 2022

Andrew Wiggins has arrived! Verno and KOC give high praise to Wiggins after his stellar Game 5 performance that helped the Warriors take a 3-2 series lead over the Celtics (00:48). They discuss how the Warriors' willingness to go into the luxury tax is what differentiates them from other franchises. The Celtics lost back-to-back games for the first time this postseason, as the guys discuss what went wrong for them in Game 5 and what they need to do differently to keep their title hopes alive (17:24). Plus, Verno shares his experience meeting Paolo Banchero and the Thompson twins (42:04). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, Rob Harvilla from 60 Songs That Explain the 90s here to inform you that we are back with 30 more songs because the 90s were super long and had a ton of rad music. Please join us every Wednesday for more 60 songs that explain the 90s only on Spotify. Welcome to The Misfatch. I'm Chris Vernon and join me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K. Kevin O'Bomberner, Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.K.O.K.K.K.O. Kavana O'O. Verdo. How are we doing this morning, man? That was quite an eventful game. Andrew Wiggins. How about that guy? Finally, I think for our audience and the world at large can see what I have been preaching

about him for so long. You know, I've tried to convince people that Andrew Wiggins is finally finding his role. This is the perfect situation for him. he's going to dominate the NBA finals. Verdo Domit. Just, just you wait. In a pivotal game five, we're going to come out of it talking about Andrew Wiggins

and how he is swinging the balance of power within this finals. All joking aside, 42 minutes, 26 points, 13 rebounds. Now over the course of the last two games, he has tallied 43 points and 29 rebounds in what were two Boston wins, 12 for 23 last night. And of course, led them in scoring. Also had two steals, a block and zero turnovers in the game. You never know when it comes to these games, right? Certainly, we didn't think that once upon a time against Milwaukee,

we'd come out talking about how Grant Williams is taking as many threes as Step Curry in a game against Milwaukee that is helping them move on to the next round. And these last two games, he has been monstrous for the Warriors. There is no doubt about it. And I also think when we talk about like, all right, who else shows up in these games? Who else shows up? And you have been able to say a name for Golden State, an obvious one, once it plays out, as, okay, there's a guy that maybe you weren't counting on that went huge for you.

and that has not happened on the flip side for Boston. And I think it's fair to say. I think that's why we're where we are in the series. Is that fair? I think it's incredibly fair to say, especially after last night's game. I mean, look, Chris, like we argued back and forth about him.

We made our fun $100 bet. You know, I like the acquisition. You said he'd be bounced. But neither of us could have seen him stepping up in the way that he has in the NBA finals, turning it up to this level and playing at the defensive level that he has. He's done such a remarkable job on Jason Tatum. Well,

let me defend myself on one sense. I didn't see them paying the $32 million for Andrew Wiggins, right, as time went on. You know, in the absence of Clay, fine. But once these contracts all kick in and the Draymond one gets bigger and the stuff one gets bigger. The luxury tax bill is just so insane. Well, that was the point in the acquisition. It's the fact that he's filling that Harrison Barnes,

Kevin Durant, role, you know, between Steph, Clay, and Draymond as that wing defender. I didn't think you had to pay somebody $32 million to do that. And honestly, I still don't. Yeah, well, that was those are the circumstances. You have Kevin Durant. He wants to go to Brooklyn. You get DeAngelo Russell.

He doesn't conform to the system in the way you want. And then you get Andrew Wiggins in a first-round pick that turns into Jonathan Cominga. I mean, like, look, dude, I thought, like, I think, you know, that turned out to be now that we're in the NBA finals, the Warriors are up three, two.

That decision turned out to be one of the pivotal ones that Golden State made to potentially now win another NBA finals because of what Wiggins has turned into in new situations. He, Andrew Wiggins is proof that players can change, that they can evolve, that they can adapt. And the Golden State Warriors are proof that you can take in one of those players, as long as they have the right qualities and the open-mindedness to change, that they can flourish playing in a new environment.

So, like Wiggins talked about it after the game last night, Kurted, all these guys have all season, you know, last couple seasons. The fact that it's turned into what it has, not just for Wiggins, though, but for guys like Gary Payton, right? I mean, we've talked about him throughout the postseason guys like Otto Porter. It really does just show how this warrior system allows players to flourish in specific roles next to Steph, Clay, and Draymond, and those guys last night. I mean, how amazing is it that Steph Curry doesn't have a three point over the first time in over 200 games? Clay, looking better defensively.

Draymond Green, he follows out, but he was tremendous defensively. I thought his man's like constantly in Celtics airspace, even like dribble handoff actions with Robert Williams. Draymond is like in his grill, just making things difficult the whole night. But, you know, like you said, Chris, sometimes it's those others, other than the stars that are making the difference in the series. And it was Andrew Wiggins last night. And, you know, you just get a credit the Warriors for taking a chance on him and seeing the vision of him changing his game.

And more than anybody, though, you get to credit Andrew Wiggins for fully embracing what has been asked of him with the understanding that this is for the greater good of the team and can lead to something great. and now they're just one game away. You also do wonder, and I know you don't want to talk about the money, but they have the highest payroll in the NBA by a wide margin. I just don't think it's a factor.

Teams should be paying. The teams that aren't paying are the pathetic teams. No, is this the price of doing business? It is. Chris, I grew up a Boston sports fan. My team's always paid. And I saw other fan bases not pay. And then I got hired into sports media,

and I heard stories about teams and other organizations that don't prioritize winning and they prioritize just making money or just making the postseason to get playoff revenue. And I think that's pathetic. So I commend the Warriors for paying to try to win something greater.

That's the way I look at it. More than anything else, these other teams, they're the ones that should be getting some blame here. They're the ones that should be criticized more. Pay up these billionaire owners. You have a winning, you have a sports organization. Yes, you should be paying a lot of money,

especially when you have Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, and Draymond Green in your team. we should be paying the hell out of the roster to take advantage of those legends. Yep. And Wiggins is the third highest pay player on that team. Good.

And they had to get something, Chris. Behind Thompson and Curry. No, you just wonder from a league standpoint, is this the price of doing business, right? Is this the price of doing business? I mean, those were such unusual circumstances, though. Kevin Durant leaves through sign and trade.

They get D.M. Russell back. So they took money back in order to get Katie to Brooklyn and to get additional flexibility. It was just strange circumstances. Like they could have not done that, but it made sense for them to do that. Right. And I think because you were a Boston sports fan and because you're not in a small market,

it is, it's different, right? I mean, the amount of money that they generate is so much greater than. You know, when I was growing up, the teams. in the big markets, they could outspend you by, you know, $60, 70 million on teams. And now what we're seeing is your owner has got to be willing to just bite the bullet and pay. Exactly. Pay up for your roster or else you're not going to be able to compete, which is, you know, well, they tried to penalize that so to make it more fair for everybody.

But the truth is, you know, you're going to, you get it to pay up. And to their credit, like say Milwaukee, who had a championship caliber team, I mean, they let PJ and Tucker walk. Well, I think one of the things we need to pay attention to is if you're not in the luxury tax, it's very hard to believe that you're going to be able to compete for a title. Right.

You look at all the teams that are in the luxury tax. And so when we talk about, hey, that owner doesn't want to go into the luxury tax, it's going to inform us whether or not. because that's the, that is the price of doing business, right? The owner's not willing to spend into the luxury tax to sell their teams. Fair enough. That's what they should do.

Sell their teams to another billionaire or a group of billionaires who are willing to do it. That's what they should do. They should sell their teams. I think it's a much different deal now than it was because you have had this influx of young ownership. The older owners were not, like they, there was a lot of older owners. And I say this as someone who covered an older owner, Michael Isley, God rest his soul. But those are the kind of guys that, like, built their own business. Yeah.

And they, and they viewed this thing as a business, right? And you just look in Memphis no further, right? Like Robert Pera right now is one of the richest men in the world. And he, you know, they have gone out of their way in Memphis to say, we will, we're not losing, keeping this team together because of money. So don't worry about that, right? They've quelled everybody's fears about that. Seems similar in Minnesota, right? Like with Aaron and Lores.

Like they're already spending for their GM. No, but once upon the time, I remember I was on the radio at the time, and it was like, Powell Gasol went and was the second banana for Kobe, and he won a title, right? And everybody's like, see, Paul Gasol was ever. And I'm thinking of myself at the time, like, hey, if the Grizzlies wanted to just take $75 million and go get players, I promise you, they can have an awesome team too.

But like you're not going to be, you can't have Talgasol as your second best player in a small market at that time. And now, Andrew Wiggins being your third or fourth best player, even if his price tag is huge, is surprised at doing business, man.

It is. Yeah, but who else was taking Andrew Wiggins? I really don't know at that price. I mean, I don't know what he'll get when he gets a contract extension. I mean, it's like, yes, this is partially about, you know, what this team is willing to do. But it's also more than anything just about the individuals. I just think more than anything. Andrew Wiggins is the example number one right now in the NBA of how situation,

opportunity, mindset, approach, open mind in this. Like those are the qualities for that matter, right? Like those are those are the factors that matter. And with him, he took what worked in Minnesota. And he's doing more of it in Golden State and less of what didn't work. The inefficient shot chucking, the blinders that he wore on drives to the basket, the fact he didn't hustle consistently on defense, the fact he wasn't attentive crashing the boards. he himself changed all of that by choice,

by developing new habits over the course of time in his new environment. And so I think for him, and like he just improved as a spot-up three-point shooter too. Statistically, he's always been great from the corners on spot-up three-pointers. So he's taking more of those, but he's also done a good job of extending his range

to above the break on spot-ups too. He's been better there. But skill-level improvement, approach and mindset-level improvement. And just the fact that, I mean, like watching him play, for Minnesota fans, I can't imagine how infuriating it is. Because for years,

you draft this guy, number one, he has some great flashes and moments over the years, but was never able to put it together. And now he's in this new situation and all the great things that you heard about him pre-drafts have really manifested more than anything. This isn't about the money. This is about Steph Curry and Clay Thompson

and Draymond Green and Steve Kerr and Bob Myers and everything that that organization built in the culture and the system that they built that can bring in an Andrew Wiggins who's somebody who people thought sucked. I didn't like Andrew Wiggins in Minnesota, Chris. I didn't like him.

Nobody did. I once tweeted that his contract would be an albatross unless he learned how to pass, dribble, and play defense. It was like basketball basics. I didn't like Wiggins. I didn't even like him in the draft. I had it behind Jabari Parker, just like Jason

and Tatum did. Yeah. You saw that tweet from Tatum saying Parker is better than Wiggins from like eight years ago. Oh, my God. I felt that way too. Somebody pulled a Tatum. Yeah. Oh, no.

Yeah. Yeah. Tatum tweeted that like in 2014 or something like that. Oh, I love Jabari Parker too. Yeah, me too. I did. Six, eight reminded me of like a little bit like mellow, right? Well, and I remember that there was like, who was the coach that?

I was it. I think it was like a Johnny Dawkins, uh, stand. for team. Like, it wasn't even all that good. And I remember Wiggins in the NCAA tournament. I'm like, where is this guy? Like, does he, like, this guy's supposed to be the number one pick in the draft.

He floated in and out of stuff and whatever. But he certainly made his presence felt last night. By the way, by the way, with Wiggins, he has one year left on his, on that expensive contract you're mentioning Chris. Yeah. He's going to have opportunities to leave, I'm sure. I'm confident. Like, teams are going to be like, yeah, we're betting on Andrew Wiggins, a changed man after

his time with the Warriors going to bring that culture to our system. Some team's going to do that. I kind of hope to see Andrew Wiggins continue on with the Warriors. I love the fit. It's just a great story. I do think that that was absolutely a something that everybody thought was going to, it was just understood that Andrew Wiggins is going to be gone after this, and he has changed that.

I think now you look at it and you go, you know what? We're going to run this back and as much as we can, right? His defense on Tatum, I mean, what was the number of entering games, Game 5, 27 and a half percent on shots inside the arc? That's not just Wiggins. But he's just done such a good job steering Tatum defensively into, you know, less than ideal angles attacking the basket that Tatum would typically have. The NBA Finals are here and so is your chance to score big on FanDuel Sportsbook. Throughout the NBA finals, FanDuel is giving new customers $200,000. in free bets guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet.

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What's happened with the Celtics? Sum it up. I mean, like, what is this team? I mean, how do you sum it up other than, like, this is just who they are? It's helter-skelter, it's up and down. Like, you don't know what you're going to get. One moment they're passing the ball, whipping it around, and it's beautiful crisp ball movement, and getting open three-pointers,

and the next minute they're just in sludge and the ball doesn't move. It's just very confusing. I've talked to people around the organization about it, and I think a lot of them are confused too, where it's just like this team just, for whatever reason, gets into these funks. And I think, do you think, Chris,

it's due largely to the fact they don't have that steadying presence. I mean, it's smart, Brown, Tatum. I mean, those are your primary hand. none of them are key playmakers. Is it that, is it the fact that, you know, Brown's 25, Tatum's 24 years old, but these guys are still just not great enough yet.

They're great players, but are they just not great enough yet? Like, have their flaws been exposed just by the Warriors? Is that really what it is? Like, Brown's Handel and Tatum's inefficiency inside the yard, like that's not a new thing on pull-up two-point jumpers. Is it just the inefficiencies have been exposed? I think that they are extremely dependent upon those two, right?

And you can pretty well draw a line between the Brown games and the Celtics success and the Brown games and the successes and the Celtics failures. Yeah, truly. I mean, throughout this whole deal and especially in this series, most importantly, in this series. because, you know, that's what you wonder is like, all right, you had the Derek White flash in a pan, you had the Al Horford flash in the pan, they both came in the same game and those have evaporated, right? Like, if we're talking about, like, who's getting me 20?

Like, who's getting me the 26 that Andrew Wiggins got last night? You know, it feels like the answer is, okay, it. Could be this guy, could be this guy, but more than likely, it's not any of these guys. So Tatum and Brown have to be amazing, right? It's like a hot Al Horford shooting night. It's a hot Marker Smart shooting night. It's not usually, like with Wiggins last night, it was a lot of self-creation, right? Yeah.

He had the ISO on Derek White, the one on Robert Williams. And like a lot of times he was just attacking closeouts in a straight line to get to the paint. Well, because he missed every three. he took. Well, I mean, that's the advantage with Wiggins in his situation now. It's like he doesn't need to be the guy every night. He just can be, you know, the guy on nights he's feeling it. And he was feeling it had good opportunities to score on some mismatches, you know, at least on paper, on drives to the basket. So that worked. And like, whereas the Celtics, you know, you're saying that they have Derek White and they have Marcus Smart, these guys who can create. But they're not necessarily

these mid-range dudes with floaters and, you know, can finish at the rim and draw fouls. You know, Wiggins had to dunk at the end of the game. They're not like that. They're not like, like those, like Wiggins say what you want about them. Like the dude was a 25 point per game score. Like he could do it on a high inefficient volume. That's right.

But like in that, but you had to do it every night. Now he can just do it on some nights. And they have just rotated when the Celtics have had success. And look, I fully expect that in game six, it's going to show up. And then we're going to go into game seven and we're going to be debating about this series and about the legacy of all of this.

And it's like, did they figure something out? And did they find something with whoever? You know, maybe Derek White shows backup. Maybe Al Orford shows backup. Maybe Grant Williams. Derek White's just going to get another baby coming. Maybe Peyton Pritchard is playable. He wasn't even playable last night in that game, right?

and he had had the best plus minus on their team. The Celtics looked like, I mean, you see the warriors pulling out Bialitsa sometimes, Iguodala sometimes, you know, like they're pulling out different pieces on their bench. Porter? Yeah, Porter. I mean, the Celtics, it's like they got six and a half guys.

Right. And the Celtics all, I mean, both teams, I thought Steph had tired legs last night. I was talking to some people after the game about that. It just seemed like he just didn't have his legs. Oh, the Celtics were done in the, before, by the way. The 44 minutes caught up to those kids.

Exactly. You see all those mis-free throws? Exactly. Like the Celtics also seemed tired. And Boston, they did a good job of attack and step over and over in that third quarter. I looked at the number on second spectrum after during the game last night. I believe it was they targeted him in the pick and roll 11 times in the minutes he was on the floor in the third quarter alone, 11 times. That's like once per minute pretty much.

Right? So they were going at Steph, trying to wear him out. And even on the other end of the floor, earlier in the end, they were applying more pressure on him. It's just that was leading to some open shots for other teammates, which is to be expected. But I wonder, like, do they do this again? I thought they did an amazing job on Steph defensively. I thought that, I mean, because inevitably, they did a great job. Anytime anybody has a bad game, it's like,

Oh, is he heard? Is he roughed up? That was about, to me, that Steph performance was about the Celtics defense, where they finally, it took five damn games, but they finally cut off the airspace that he was getting off those high screens. You saw the Grant Williams block on him. You saw one where Rob Williams,

he came up so fast that he caught him in mid-air. And Steph had to, remember this one? He was about to shoot. and he looked and he had to end up dishing it off before he hit the ground. And they were up on those screens all night and closing out that airspace. And if the other guys, if the Wiggins are going to kill us, if the Clay's are going to kill us, if Gary Payton's going to run the baseline and kill us, then so be it. But you just saw so much attention paid to Curry.

and I thought it worked to their benefit. And honestly, if I'm I'm I'm a Boston fan, I sit there and I look at last night's game and I go, okay, the biggest, the hardest part for us is the Steph Curry thing. This has been a big problem because we have not been able to slow him down. We did a amazing job on Steph Curry and we got beat by Andrew Wiggins and we got beat by some, you know, auxiliary parts. I would keep that same game plan and I'd say, bro, if we're going to lose to a team score in 102 points, then fine. Fine. Like, we've got to be able to score 103 points. End of story.

You know, it was a thing going in that the offense had, you know, that was the problem with the Celtics. The offense has failed them. well, I thought last night did a great job on Curry. If you get beat by the others, you get beat by the others. But it's not going to be death by Curry in the same way that he had been doing it thus far. And I figure out a way offensively to get myself to 103 because I think the, and, you know, they piled on a little bit there at the end. You know, it went up to 16 for a minute.

And then, you know, but through the majority of the game, they are defensively good enough. You have got to be able to win if you give up 102. Got to. That's an offense problem. That's not a defense problem. And so I thought their defense on Curry, you know, certainly enabled those other guys to have big games because he does have that kind of gravity. But I thought they did by far the best job they've done the whole damn series. That run at the start of the fourth quarter.

Well, we're actually really starting with the Jordan Pool three-pointer at the end of the third. That was. Like Boston, Boston just collapsed, man. It felt like that's where they might have lost the finals. The start of the fourth quarter, first four and a half minutes, no step on the floor, and you score two points. I thought it just shot up. I mean, the crowd went absolutely nuts. I mean, look, I think anybody watched that.

I jumped out of my chair. I could not believe that. That Joker hit some crazy ass. Eves, Poole does. And he's done it since college. I guess somebody posted last night. He's done it since high school. He's like the best heaver at end of, you know, beating the clock ever.

But if you go back, that that pool shot comes off of this just miserable Celtics possession. There's like Jalen taking a crap shot at the end. I mean, I think like kind of summed it up where it's like end of the shot clock. like, okay, go make something happen. And Jalen takes his shot. They get the rebound and that enables a pool to get up the court and even get a shot off at that time. And then obviously it went downhill from there in that fourth quarter.

But I really thought, they look deadleg to me, really. I mean, four airballs for Tatum, come on. When has that ever happened? Four shots that did not hit anything? And he's not going to the rim at all. And I don't think it's just because he's not finishing. I mean, it's well documented. He's like 30% from two point range in this finals,

which is just ludicrous. But, I mean, he's not even going to the basket. Brown had a couple really good finishes, especially in that Celtics run. But he was, He's pretty miserable overall in the game, and I just think they are so dependent. I think those two both have to be awesome. I do because I don't really trust the third guy.

And I don't know. But inevitably, this team has bounced. That Celtic team has bounced back all the time. They look dead when they're going to play a game six in Milwaukee and Tatum has 46. They look dead when they're having to go back and play Miami and they pull it off. I'm certainly not counting them out. For sure. That's the story of this team.

It is. It really is the story of this team. You cannot count them out. They've been in this position two series in a row now, like you said. Coming back from 3-2 against the bucks, and then they blow game six at home against Miami, but they win game seven and almost blow game seven as well for what it's worth. Almost blue game seven, Chris.

I know. That LeBron late. One thing, one thought, we haven't mentioned the names Robert Williams or Al Horford yet today. I think Al Horford looks tired. Like he looks his age right now. Whereas Robert Williams, how many minutes can he play? Is my question because he plays 30 minutes last night.

He's a plus 11. It looks very good defensively. He looked like Robert Williams, altering shots, looked active. Can Robert Williams push it to 40 and not get top? No way. Whatever. No way. I mean, it's a bus win game six.

I know. I'm just wondering. Has he ever played 40 minutes? You got to remember the kids got the knee problem. Yeah, I know he does. I know he has knee problems. But that's why the question is being asked. Can he play 40 minutes?

You know what I'm saying? I think the answer is not, hey, can Rob Williams play 40 minutes? Hey, can we not suck when he's not out there? You know, get somebody else. If he's out there. more, that means like he's someone else's out there less. You know what I'm saying? That's all I asked, can he play more? I just wonder like what, what are the limits? How far can he be pushed? Part of it, you did have the loony foul trouble

early, right? So, I mean, they don't really have big guys. That Warriors team is, does not have size. Last time he played over 40 minutes was January 10th against the Pacers. What did he do? have a big game. He had 14 points, 12 rebounds, four steals, three blocks. Yeah, time lords. I mean, hell, you only got what, like you said,

six and a half at this point, you may just end up playing all 48 minutes. I know, I mean, I just wonder, like, how, like, I wonder what the limits are right now, given his injury, given the durability, given the knee soreness, maybe fatigue issues as well. Like, I just, I wonder where the limits are for him.

So you think it just ends up getting, even though we felt like those guys, you know, were kind of gassed at the end there, is there anybody else that you can see becoming trustworthy for Udoca? I mean, it hurts when Pritchard can only play five minutes. Yeah. Because he's spooked and running out of bounds. Yeah. And Grant Williams, you know, kind of lost a shot for a couple weeks now. And Derek White, guy got a couple of profiles written on him. went to witness protection.

Poor Mir and Fader. Mere and Fader, this is payback for the Janus book, becoming the most well-timed book in the history of journalism, right? She writes a Yonest book that drops after he has a 50-point finals game and finals MVP and the whole thing. And then, I mean, she tried her hand again. She said, you know what? I'm going to write about Derek White.

And not the same results. Yeah. Great profile. Yeah, great profile. Derek, Derek, with one point last night. Yeah.

Need more out of that for the guy you gave up, you know, pretty good amount for. Yeah. Derek White and, you know, I actually thought Grant made some plays. I did. Doug Grant made some plays at least.

Yeah. He's just going to find his three-pointer again. Richard got, you know, abandoned completely in that game. And then what did we talk about on Friday where I said, Kevin, I do think you're going to be able to look at the turnover thing.

Celtics turned it over like crazy in the second half, and the Warriors did it. 18 to 6, dude. 18 to 6. I mean, it is what it is. Right? Which of these teams is going to give the other one extra possessions? Which one of these teams is going to let the other one get out in space so that you can't match up and set your defense?

Because they're both outstanding defenses when they're set up. But when it becomes the scramble, that's when the warriors. are most successful. And the Celtics have to not turn the ball over in order to prevent it. And that's what's been in Achilles heel for them in these losses. I feel like they're throwing the ball around. And, you know, it wasn't even Steph in space last night. It was all of them.

You know? I don't know. How you feel about it now after you've been to these last two? You were there for the games in Boston. Now you've been, now you were at that one last night at goal. Golden State. Did it feel like, oh, the Pivotal Game 5 where the team wins 73% of the series or whatever, that this one was the one that mattered and now Boston is dead?

It's still going seven. I'm sticking to seven. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sticking to seven. I mean, I pick Celtics in seven. I mean, am I sticking to that? I have no idea, dude. Honestly, like, who knows?

Like, we just talked about with this team. They've done it twice. The Warriors are different, though. They're the Golden State Warriors. The Celtics are harder to trust. Yeah, they are. They're harder to trust. They're harder to predict.

Whereas with the Warriors, I mean, they have Steph Curry. And he misses a three-pointer for the first time in over 200 games straight. And this dude's going to come out game six, knowing what's at stake. Like, I feel like with this warrior's team, they collectively do know. I mean, like both of these rosters are hustling, playing hard. I think this is a great series. Both coaches have made adjustments. Excellent individual performances.

Players coming through bouncing back from adversity. Draymond getting benched in the middle of the fourth quarter in game four. Comes back out for the last three minutes has amazing sequences. Andrew Wiggins stepping up multiple times. Steph going nuclear in the Celtics. I mean, similarly, like have had some great performances from guys and collective performances too. So I just think it's high-level basketball, man. And I feel, I mean, you asked about being at these games.

I feel like as basketball fans, we deserve a game seven. I hope we get a game seven, man. This series just seems to deserve that type of closure at the end, a close game, you know, entering the fourth quarter, and just see what happens. That's what I'm hoping for. I have asked you, or we have talked about this throughout the entire series, both of these teams,

and it has been rather evenly matched to this point. Do you still feel like the Celtics are the better team? I think, like, in a vacuum in some ways, yeah, I mean, like the... They're not playing well enough, but you think... The length aspects, I mean, the length aspect, the defensive versatility, the use in the upside of Tatum and Brown when you see those guys at their best. But that doesn't always, you know,

matter. It's like if you have Steph and Clay and Traybond. It's who plays the best. And Andrew Wiggins. It's who plays the best, right? I mean, it really, that's all it really is. I mean, it's who plays the best on a given day or in a given series in this case with the NBA. But I mean, like I said, you know, again, growing up with Boston sports fan, Chris, I've been on both sides of it, winning championships and losing. Like 18 and no Patriots, they, you know, they say in the Super Bowl, oh, yeah, well, We're only going to score 14 points.

That's what Tom Brady said before the game. And, like, I mean, we're only going to score 17. And then they ended up only scoring 14 in the game and lose. But they were the better team. Just like you could say the 73 and 9 Warriors were the better team. But the better team doesn't always win. They don't always. And so even then, though, if they're better, like it's by like a little teeny weeny bit.

It's not like some huge gap, you know, between Boston and Golden State. It's not. It's very, very close between those two teams. which is again why, like, I'm having so much fun. I mean, like, not all of these games have been bangers in terms of, like, close down to the end. And I wish, I hope we get that. How about this? None of them have.

None of them. This is the most entertaining series decided by double digits. I have ever seen. I know. It's strange. I am not. It's been fun. It's good.

It has been, the basketball has been entertaining and fun to watch. And yet every margin is double digits. Yeah. I can't figure it out. Yep. Yeah. I mean, you would think that something has come down to the last shot at some point, given what we've watched.

But like at the end of the game, it's always somebody's won by 10 or more. It's crazy. I hope we get that. Six or seven, you know, or both. Yep. That would be, that would be sick. Speaking end of game, what we, you know what, we did get that in the Miami series. We talked the whole time about how that Miami series suck.

And then we finally did get it. We got a Jimmy Butler open three that clanked, right, that was going to decide win or lose at that point. Speaking of after the game, someone on Twitter said, you have got to ask Kevin O'Connor what happened to him after game five. And I was like, why? So what happened to you after game five? We didn't have another climbing episode, did we? No, no. He didn't have to escape from Chase Center.

Did you? I think I know what they're referring to. Okay. I mean, just walking through my game five just to hit the checkpoints. Please. I mean,

I did typical post game stuff. I did a couple of, like, TV interviews. I did one, you know, with a Turkish station. Let's go.

I did one with a... Did you tell him Shengoon's your favorite player in the world? We did not talk Shengun. What? But we didn't talk Shendun last night, like, but maybe we'll do another one. I'd love to do another one.

And then I did, you know, a CLNS radio, a Celtics garden report, an old show I used to work for, and do post-game shows with Bobby Manning and my friend Joe Swet. Those guys were great. And then after that, like, almost immediately after finishing that, Amin Al-Hassan comes over from Levittart and friends.

Yep. And he's like, you've been summoned. And I was like, oh, what do you mean? We're walking across the court. And they're doing their post-game show. I didn't see the laptop over on the side. And Amin and I step in front of the laptop. It's Mo DeKeele in one corner.

Tom Haversstro and Zach Harper and a mean like you know messes of the computer and he clicks a tab and there's porn on the screen no no we just like a video yeah like you know

porn hub like homepage search you know and we and we start first of a laugh and he's like let me explain let me explain and it goes into a thing where I guess either earlier and

that show or like a show earlier in the day that they were doing. There's some actresses name was mentioned and they were doing some research. You believe this? And Amin had the tab open. Oh, research! Research! Wait, his excuse for why porno popped up on his computer was I was doing research. I said, oh my God.

Oh, my God. I said, why did you close the tabs before you collect what's the game? It says, I was in a rush. Dude. It's the funniest thing. No, no. Now, here's the real question. Do you believe in Mina Hassan when he says,

I was doing research for the show, and that's why Pornhub was up on my computer? That is ridiculous. I was doing show research. Well, no. No, I guess a name was mentioned on one of their shows. But that's where you, what, you had that? I guess it was searched for during the show and it was left open.

I mean, that's my understanding. All right, I got to go back and listen to that show because what I, that's the level of research that they're doing on, uh, Levitart and Friends. They are, the level of research is that not only do they have to mention the actress's name, They need to peruse her work to find out just exactly what's going on here. That's outrageous.

I cannot imagine how you felt when you saw the laptop and it shows up. That's incredible. I mean, at first I thought I was being pranks. That's what I thought I was at first. If he comes over, he's going to, you know, he's like, you're being summoned. They wanted to, oh, let's see Kevin O'Connor's reaction. When we pull up forno on the big. Exactly.

That's what I thought it was. But then they found out what had happened. And you can see their facial expression where they're like, oh, my God, I mean. Like they were surprised just as much, if not more. Show research. That's unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. I was hilarious. I was an unbelievable internet moment. Amin's great. I really like a meme. I like a mean. I like a lot. He's good.

Another thing that we got to mention today. Kevin, yesterday, I met the number one player on the Kevin O'Connor Big Board. Oh, Paolo Bencaro. I did. Wow.

I met Palo Bencaro. What are your impressions? Give me the scatterer board, Chris. So, okay, a couple things. So I went over to a local gym because overtime elite, which is the league that is backed by all manner of players

and people and businessmen, and has really taken off over the course of the last year. They have a couple of guys that they were, they've been going to some different places and working out with different people. And there's two kids that Thompson twins, a men Thompson and Azure Thompson. They're going to play 3B3.

Oh, yeah, in the basketball tournament. That's right. So they're like six, seven guards. They're from Fort Lauderdale, Florida. They had signed up. They left school. They are playing in the overtime league. Both are projected lottery picks, I believe, at this point for the 2023 draft.

And another kid that was with him, who I remember was a top probably 15 high school player, Tyler Smith, who is a 610 kid who was from Houston, who is also playing in overtime elite. So they were coming in town because they were going to be working out with Mike Miller. who is now in sports agency, but had previously, of course, been a longtime NBA player, had coached at the University of Memphis, had also coached his son's high school team recently.

And so he was running a workout with them, and I got invited over to come check these kids out if I wanted to see them. So I went over there to watch them, and I'm going to tell you something. I met the kids. First, I'll start with the Thompson kids. The Thompson twins. Okay.

What's your thing about them? Because those kids, I'm excited to see them in the basketball tournament. That's a great competition. Very, you know who they remind me of a little bit? And, man, you cannot tell the two apart. You can't tell them apart at all. When you see them, even when I was standing with them, I mean, they are identical, identical. It really is like the Morris Twins thing back in the day where it was like, you know,

there's those conspiracy theories that one of the Morris Twins played for the other one. after the ankle injury. The difference in the Morris twins is in the ears. Oh, okay. Look it up. It's true. These two Thompson twins, they're like, I mean, they're legit like six, seven or something. I mean, big, and they are smooth and they are Freiko athletes.

I'm talking like the kind of kids that can get the ball. And you see this, like, sometimes it's after the workout stuff that you see, like a ball will get caught and they would catch the ball under the rim. They're the kinds that can jump up flat-footed and windmill it. And like all of their movements on the floor are quick tit, quick twitch.

It's like they're moving on two-time speed podcast. They're just fast. But anyway, a little bit it's like a more athletic I hate to do this. I really do because I don't want to compare kids to great, great players. But when you see them, you cannot

deny that it's very Shay Gil just Alexandria, you know. But faster. Yeah. But because they're so big, right? You don't mean? You're not used to seeing guards like that. And they're guards.

And boy, oh boy. And that Tyler Smith is smooth as hell and he's left-handed so it looks great. You know, it's funny. Because he's a, he's an athlete himself. I mean, they got, but I met all these kids. They could not have been nicer. I met the dad too, but they were, I, you know, it was my first time or ever around anybody from that overtime elite thing. And they had a group that was in town.

They, you know, they're filming everything. They got the cameras out there doing social media and whatever else. And I just was, both parents were there for the kids. Tyler's mom was there. The Thompson Twins dad was there. And I met him and he could not have been cooler. And, like, I just, I walked away from the thing, like, thinking to myself, geez. I mean, these are kids that, like, we're in high school.

Now they're playing in this overtime elite to prepare themselves for the NBA draft. And you could not be more impressed with them, like basketball and personally, truly. Like, if you, I promise you, those kids are going to get in an interview and people are going to absolutely love them because they're just, their sweet as can be. They're not arrogant. How mature? How mature do the Thompson kids see? when you talk to them. Like much more than you would think.

And I think part of it is... Given, like, the success and, like, the attention they received. I know. And you would think, like, you know, you would think maybe they'd have a shred of arrogance or... I don't know. Like, they are... They are really, really sweet kids. And you like the parents, too?

Do they seem like... I just tell you, I met the kids for the first time. Now I know I'm older now. But I'm there and they, like, everything was like, yes, sir, no, sir. Yes, sir, no sir. I mean, I'm not interviewing him. We're not anywhere. It's just that I'm an adult.

Yeah. That I'm at this thing. Do they know that you're a media person? Or do they just think you were there? I mean, I introduced myself. Yeah. It's like, why I'm there or whatever. But I mean, like, yes, sir, no, sir.

Like, everything. Everything. It was crazy. You know what I mean? So when did Bencaro come through? So then in the middle of the workout, Van Carroll comes out to the other side. And, of course, he's signed with Mike Miller, so that stands to reason. But McCarroll walks in and he's just on the other day.

He's not working out. He had worked out like earlier in the day. But he's just down on the other end, like kind of screwing around. And, you know, he's got a couple buddies with him. And they're just messing around, whatever. But then after the whole thing, like kind of wrapped up, It's very informal. Everybody's just kind of walking around.

You know, once I get closer to him, I'm like, you know, this dude is big, like big, big. And I talked to somebody there, and I was like, you know, like, what did he measure it? They told me, now, look, I'm just passing what I was told a long. They told me that he in, I want to say it was like Houston, maybe he went to go workout or something. that he measured six, ten and a half or six ten and a quarter without shoes.

And I was like, Jesus. I mean, you see him and I know how he plays and I know what he's like. And I don't know, man. It's just, it's always jarring when you get up next to these guys and you're like, my God, this kid is big to be able to do it. Because I know the way he plays. I watch him on TV. And so I know the way he plays, but boy, he is, that is a big kid and he looks, you know,

he's not going to have problem with the physicality of the NBA next year because he is, he's a big kid. I mean, he, Ben Carras, the type is going to be able to come right in and play immediately. Met him could not have been, could not have been nicer. Super, same thing. Very sweet. Same thing. Very, very, very nice guy, for sure. And I know that, you know, he's been going and doing all kinds of draft workouts and everything else.

And, yeah, so it was the first time I'd ever been around him and just the sheer size of the kid. You're like, geez. I mean, you see him because you know, like the other guys, they shoot around, they do whatever. interestingly enough, I happened to talk to somebody that was there, not affiliated with any of this. I talked to somebody else there

that's got involvement in the NBA that saw, had just seen a Jabari Smith workout because I was like, you know, he's the one I love. I was like, I love that Jabari Smith, whatever. And the guy said, I swear to God,

I just saw a workout from him like within the last two weeks. He goes, it was two hours the kid never took a break. It was insane. Then I was like, Jabari Smith is a hustler. Like that guy,

that guy bust his ass on and off the court. You get guys like holding their knees, panting, taking water breaks, you know? Like they say this kid went two hours and just never stopped. And I was like, you know what? That's why I loved about him. Because he's got that fire.

He seems so relentless and everything else. but anyway, I'm here to tell you that, like, I'm not going to make some kind of, I haven't been around the kid a lot, whatever, but I talk to a lot of people that know Van Carrow. I know Mike Miller well, and obviously he's representing the kid. The kid's going to pass all the characters stuff

for flying colors. And my first impression of all those kids was like, my God, the league is going to be, the league just keeps getting better and better and better, more talented and more talented, but also the kids that are coming in are just so, I mean, I think about myself at that age, and I just, I am an absolute awe of them,

truly in awe of them, that they can be so mature that they can have their head on their shoulders and be such workers. You know what I mean? And then, you know, I'm constantly, you know, I've talked about this for years on the mismatch, Kevin. The families are so much more involved

than when I first started covering the NBA. I am constantly meeting parents of these young prospects and just blown away by the parents. You know what I mean? Not like living through their sons or trying to, you know what I mean? Like trying to push these kids along, like stage kids or whatever else or, you know,

and, league just in great, great spot. It really is because I see these kids coming up. And I'm going to pay attention a lot to that overtime elite because my God, they got some players in there. And those Thompson twins, I'm a fan. I'm a fan. There's no way around it.

I'm a fan. Yeah, I got a, I mean, I think that league will only continue to grow in the years to come as well. I mean, it's off to a good start with the talent they had coming through. Yeah, exactly, with the talent they've had coming through. I mean, OTE, you know, it's a very online league. Yep. But if you have those Thompson twins in there and they end up being top 10 picks in the NBA draft,

that's a great selling point for any kid in the future to say, hey, like, come here. This is a stage where you can get better and improve as a player in person and make yourself an even more appealing NBA prospects. No question. All right. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Kevin, safe travels to Boston. I will talk to you on Friday. Have a good one, everybody.