The Mismatch - The Bleak Future Suns, Kessler or Gobert, and NBA Trade Targets

Episode Date: January 17, 2023

Verno and KOC begin the show by discussing Jayson Tatum’s 50-point performance versus the Hornets before moving on to the disappointing Suns and debating what they need to do to turn their season around (02:10). They discuss Jaren Jackson Jr.'s impact with the Grizzlies and why Mike Brown deserves so much credit for the Kings' success this season (20:26). Also, they dive into D'Angelo Russell’s strange comments and discuss the possible moves the Timberwolves can make to fix their issues (39:21). In looking at the latest trade rumors, the guys debate the fit for some of the players who are being shopped around (45:31). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a new year and I have a new podcast here at the Ringer, Offguard, hosted by me and my guide, Pasha Higigi. Austin and I go way back and talk so much hoop already that we figure those time to fire up the mics and let you in on all of these conversations. Every week, Pasha and I will hit on the biggest stories happening in the league.

And get Austin's perspective of someone currently hooping in the NBA. Tap into Offguard every Friday on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. He does every Tuesday from the ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Cannibal, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien.

How about them cowboys? Yeah, you know, in the last episode, you told me that Tom Brady was going to rip my heart out. Oh, I was wrong. It appears my heart is intact. My heart is intact. It sure is. Mike for Card is still the coach. So every time you tell me that my heart's going to get ripped out,

things turn out great for me. So can you tell me that Bertie's going to rip my heart out? Maybe on a Friday show, I will. Okay, that would be good. What a decision they're going to have to make if they do win and then Jimmy G's able to return? Oh, my goodness. Purdy's been good.

There's not a decision to make. Really? Yeah, that guy just had a... That's what I'm saying. You can't go back away from him. Oh, I agree. with you. He had a bigger postseason game that Jimmy's ever had. I totally agree.

But there are people who are behind Jimmy G still, right? Maybe his parents. So yesterday, Monday, was filled with games. The NBA does a great job on MLK Day in remembering the legacy of Dr. King, as well as hosting all kinds of basketball games throughout the day. Started off with Tatum 51.

It had been a minute. it since we had a 50 point. You know, we had that spree there where it felt like everybody was one-uping each other on a daily basis. And so had a little bit of a break. And then Tatum dropped the 51 yesterday. And Boston just keeps on rocking. And it's interesting that in the Eastern Conference, I think we were more confident

in who the best teams were and then kind of the divide. but Boston has really kind of separated themselves from even the ones that we thought were the best teams as they are now, I believe it's four and a half, four and a half games up, second place in the Eastern Conference. And so we're going to talk about some of the clear divides that have taken places in the conferences, but Boston, four and a half is a pretty good lead right now. And while we expected a group of those teams to kind of all be in the mix, they've separated themselves. And you can't do the injury thing because they've done it without Rob Williams. They're doing it now without Jalen Brown. Obviously a solid team with the requisite depth to be able to withstand injury.

We see these teams all over the league not be able to withstand injury. and I think the test of the best teams is truly can they still win games when some of their key guys are out and Tatum has just been so dynamite that Boston just keeps on rock and what do you make of had a little bit of a swoon, a weird one in December and then it feels like they've kind of gotten back on track here. Yeah, I mean, I think you said it, Chris. They've done this despite having guys in and out of the lineup,

with Jalen Brown being out right now, but it feels like for Boston, you know, whether it's Horford out or Time Lord earlier in the year, you know, whoever it might be, somebody else is able to step up. And that's where their immense depth, it comes into place so much. Like when the Ringer, you know, rankings launched, there was eight Celtics in the top 100. You know, two of them, you know, dropped out. They shouldn't have, in my opinion, Derek White and Grant Williams. But they did. So there's six in the top 100 right now. Eight you could argue that should be, at least. in the top 120, 125. Boston's got depth. And besides those guys, like the Luke Cornets, the Sam Houses of the world, the Peyton Pritcherts, you know, who can fill in when necessary on the back end of the bench. Like they just have so many different ways that they can play,

so many different ways that lineups that they can put out there, and just so many quality bodies. As you would say, Chris, guys who don't suck. Yeah. And obviously with Tate, I mean, you have your star who can get 50 for you any night. Well, and it's kind of interesting.

because I think that's one of the storylines that's been going on. We know that when it comes to playoff time, the healthiest teams are going to be the ones that have the greatest chance of success. But even throughout this season, we see in some situations a guy go down and teams either be able to hold the fort down or keep on winning. And then in other situations, we see it wreck the team. So we're having to see it over and over again.

We're seeing it with Durant. We're seeing it with Hallibur. Every week there is a new one. It sounds like we may see it for at least a short amount of time with Donovan Mitchell. We had to watch it earlier in the year when Darius Garland was out. Like all of these teams, you're not going to be uninjured, and you're probably not going to be uninjured to key guys. And so how these teams are able to withstand it.

And I'd say that's the thing that's probably impressed me the most about Boston, is that it's not like they just hover around being okay and holding, the fort down, like they're able to keep on winning games, even if they do have what is far and away, their second best player on the team. And a guy who's having a great season in Jalen Brown out of the lineup. Oh, for sure. Yeah, it happens everywhere. Yeah, and I think, you know, that's testament to those guys kind of in the middle of the roster, like the Derek White's of the world. Yeah. You know, like he plays a bigger role for years in San Antonio as a scoring presence. And then in Boston, and he continues to do the stuff in Boston,

that he did in San Antonio as kind of a connective piece on offense and a defensive ace for you. Like, there was this stat I saw from Taylor Snow, who writes for the Celtics yesterday, and Derek White has 41 blocks this year. The next highest guard has 27. That's Kyrie Irving. Caruso has 25.

So White, you know, leading the league for guards and shots blocked by quite a big margin. This is a testament to his versatility is a help defender inside for Boston. Well, hold on a second now, because this is going to be bar bet number one that is mentioned on the show. Did you just say that Derek White is first and in second is Kyrie Irving? Kyrie Irving at 27. Okay, that's a bar bet.

I know, that's a good one, huh? Yeah, for any listeners, if you want to make some money of your friends. Hold on. Derek White is first in guard blocks. Yeah, the way to frame it, I think, is this. Number three is Alex Caruso with 25. Number one is Derek White with 41. Who's second?

Who's second? I mean, Kevin, you- No one would guess Kyrie Irving. Nobody. You and I do an NBA podcast two times a week. And between the two of us, how many guards would we have guessed before we got to Kyrie Irving? I think I would have guessed.

I would have guessed DeAnthony Melon, who has 21. That would have been my guess. but Kyrie, there's no way I would have guessed Kyrie for second place. Respect Kyrie's defense. Yeah.

That's what somebody's going to tweet us. All right. I went to a basketball game yesterday. Not a good one, mind you. I went to the Grizzly's Sons. And one of the things I want to talk to you about on this, look, the Grizzlies absolutely pummeled them.

They beat them by 30. They've won 10 games in a row now. And they're the first team in 37 years to have a 10-game streak where they've scored over 115 in every game. So they have been on fire. They ended the year with a couple of wins. They have not lost a game since the calendar turned. Their competition yesterday was not good.

They were without Chris Ball. They're without Devin Booker. We talked about how just ridiculously bad it has been for Phoenix in the absence of Booker. and so no Booker, no Paul, and that's who they're running out there yesterday, and they get beat by 30, and I couldn't help but think, as I'm watching it,

are they fire mode? You know, and just say, look, this is happening to us because we don't have Booker. You know, I saw the other day I was reading this article, the Paul clutch stats, which for the entire length of his career, he has been like the goat clutch player,

like the plus minus God, the don't get in a nip-tuck game against Chris Paul with three minutes left because he's going to do you in. And that's just not so anymore. His fourth quarter numbers, his crunch time numbers, all those things that have been magnificent

and have made him a bona fide first ballot Hall of Famer Those don't apply anymore. At least they have not so far this year. And then, so you've got a regression there, a big one. And then you've got the Booker being out. And the record just keeps on free falling. Three and thirteen without them. Three and thirteen.

Do you just say, hey, we're going to get him back? And this is probably the last run with Paul. So we build out and we. try to, you know, even from a low seed, possibly, we still try to make a run because this is kind of what we've got right now. Or do you start augmenting the roster on the run? I mean, it's a very interesting situation with the ownership, which has been changed over completely, so you don't know, you know, their vision versus Sarver's vision. You don't know who's getting to make the calls on what the future's got.

going to be. You've got Aiton's name that's kind of back out there again. That's who they got to get rid of is DeAndre Aon. He's been the biggest disappointment. He said it himself pre-draft, Chris. My NBA goal is to get to my second contract. He got a second contract and he's been lazy. He's not put in the same effort that he ever has in recent years.

He was playing for the deal, it feels like, to me, watching him this year. And I like D.A. I love D.A. What he grew into for Phoenix, but this version of him, it is. You'd move off it. it's an embarrassment, right? Like this team needs him without Chris Paul and Devin Booker. You're the guy who needs to step up.

You're the guy who needs to box out Stephen Adams and put a body on him and try to grab some rebounds. Yeah. And not play so soft. It's honestly, I can't imagine what it must be like to be Chris Paul or Devin Booker. When you've had to be on his ass for years to get him to hustle consistently,

then he gets paid. And then in a moment where your team needs you, he doesn't step up. I mean, my goodness, I can't imagine what it's like to be one of those guys right now, how the frustration they must feel watching Aiton play on the floor, especially against Adams. What a dramatic difference with the level of effort between those two guys. Well, and it clearly funnels into Monty,

because Monty's level of frustration grew last year during the postseason. We had those ominous quotes prior to the season, which was, you know, we haven't even talked since this, you know, pretty public blowup between the two. And then this year, there have been videos of them going at each other in huddles and whatnot. And so their relationship is not actually, it's obviously not on the up and ups. But I say all this to say, like, the record was awesome when they had Booker. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So I don't know what to make of it. Like they were right there at the top of the West. So I don't know if you just, I was just. I was really struggling with this yesterday. Do you just say, look, this is happening because Booker's out and when Booker comes back, we're going to be just fine. Or do you say, we've kind of seeing what life is like without one guy

and we don't like what we've seen out of some of the other guys. And so we're going to try to change this thing around on the run. I mean, I don't know if you load up and go for it. I don't know. What do we just say about the Celtics? It's your phrase, guys who don't suck. With Phoenix, you look at their roster right now. Who are the keepers if you're trying to win a championship?

Devin Booker, Bichell Bridges. Right. Who else? It's not a bright future, Keth. No, it's not anymore. Well, first of all, they were the bright future sons. Then they were the bright now sons. They're neither right now.

They need a new name. Is it the bleak future sons? The bleak future sons? Is that who they are right now? I think we saw that. I mean, I think we dubbed that during the Dallas, beat down by 1,000. I mean, if you lose by, I don't care.

I know they had COVID. They also lost by a thousand on their home. They have a worst record than the Thunder right now. And the Blazers. In the Wolves. Yeah, watch out for the Thunder. Oh, they're, I mean, we talked about that. We gave them so much of love.

You walk in screwing around with them. They'll put 150 on your head. Oh, no doubt about it. Where it's with Phoenix? It's the opposite case. Like, if you're the sons right now, you know, our friend of the show, Nikaias Duncan, host a Dunker Spot podcast.

He asked the question on Twitter this morning. He said, you know, when do the Sons begin, you know, exploring Chris Paul trades? You know, CP3 has his deal this year. It's, you know, 16 million guaranteed next year. And then it's totally non-guaranteed the year after. So the contract is very flexible for the team. I mean, do you think there's any logic to that, Chris, you know,

for the Phoenix Sun saying, you know what, maybe we take a step back this year, we're out of contention, or are you all in still on trying to add players, and build and try to win and get yourself back in the top six in the West. I think because I was so good when he was healthy, I would keep it together for this year.

And then make my decisions in the off season. He as and Devin Booker though. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Because, I mean, I get to the playoffs. He could be the best player in a playoff series. Yeah. Any of them.

I mean, he's that level of scorer. And so I think I would, I think I'd hold it together, augmented a little bit, and try to take one run with it this year. How dramatic a changes are you making? Are you trying to trade Aiton? I got to be honest with you. I don't think that that would be some dramatic change.

Yeah. That's kind of sad where we are right now. But, I mean, honestly, you saw other guys. Remember last year when we got to the playoffs and, like, there were like those Bionbo moments? I mean, it's a prime spot if you can just roll to the, basket because both those guys can talk the players to make plays. He's not playing it's hard. He's just not. Who?

Eaton. No, no, no. I'm saying guys like even Biombo can have success. I'm saying it's a great spot. So I think you can get percentage of and certainly more effort. I don't think that that's like some kind of monster move. Would Perl be an upgrade over Eaton right now? Our guy, Jacob Pertle. I want somebody that dives towards the basket. Pertil can dive. He isn't finishing like that, though. Yeah, but I disagree, Chris.

I think Pertil, he's not like a lob guy necessarily, but Aitin doesn't dunk a lot either. But I want somebody that finishes, I know. Perl can put the ball on the ground. He's probably, I bet you he's statistically a better finisher at the rim than Aiton. I mean, that may be so, but that's ain't, I mean, again, I don't want Aitin either. I'm just talking about the architect, the kind of guy. Pertil, yeah. I mean, I'd want Pertil in that.

roll over Aiton. The way he's playing right now, I've always hated Aiton. So, I mean, you're telling me nothing. I mean, Aiton at his best was a very good player. But Aiton right now was such a major disappointment. It's a joke. And he's not all at fault here.

We talked about a weeks ago with Phoenix. They don't just have a lot of guys who can, you know, do what some of the Boston or Denver guys do when you're talking about some of the other best teams in the league or Memphis guys where there's just a bunch of guys who can handle the ball, you know, attack a closeout, make the right path. Phoenix doesn't have a lot of guys who can initiate offense,

make those type of plays, you know, as a secondary creator. That's what they're really missing. It's not just on Aiton here. It's really, at the end of the day, a poorly constructed roster at this current moment. Well, it just is shown how the incredible reliance on Booker. Oh, yeah. That the whole thing revolves.

And we're seeing some of these teams, right? Anytime you watch Dallas without Luca, you go, oh, my God. How do they win? I mean, same thing you're seeing when you're watching Feed it's a book or you're like, oh, God. And the answer is neither of them do win when those guys are out. Isn't it amazing how brief the window can be open?

Yeah. So brief. Like, you have so few chances. And then that's why, Chris, you know, when we had our argument a couple weeks ago about Memphis trading up for Siakam or OGE and Novi, like the window's not always open for a long time, even when it feels like it might be.

And I think these teams right now in the Western Conference, it's open. And we get a couple of weeks now to the deadline. If any of those guys become available, if any team decides to be a seller, the market is going to be huge. Because so few teams are selling right now. If you're the team that wants to zag when everybody else is going one way, you know, you're going to have teams lined up around the corner. You better have teams lined up around the corner. I think there should be.

Like for New Orleans, Memphis, Sack for that matter. any of them. Go hard right now. It's an open championship right now. So go for it. Enjoy the new year with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook.

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Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit fandul.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. In Arizona, call 1,800 next step. In Connecticut, visit ccpg.org forward slash chat. In Indiana, call 1-8009 with it. In Kansas, call 1-800-2-2-4-7-0.

In Louisiana, I call 1-8777-7-0. In Maryland, visit MD-Gamblinghelp.org. In New York, call 1-8708-Hop New York. And Wyoming, call 1-800-2-4-70-0. And West Virginia, visit 1,800-Gamboa. I will tell you that yesterday, after watching that game, there were a lot of people. Memphis, Phoenix.

Yeah, a lot of people came up to me, and they wanted me to talk to Taylor Jenkins, the head coach, if I could, and tell them, hey, could you please stop kicking people's asses so badly so that Jaron has to play more minutes so that Kevin will then give him the respect that he deserves? Because if he's only playing 26 minutes because we win by 30 every night, then he's going to get that held against him in his defensive player of the year case. Six blocks and 26 minutes. What an embarrassment.

Yeah, I know. He only has, he only has, blocks in the 26 minute. They've got like a net rating of like 124 when he's on the court and then a 105 defensive rating. So he's like a plus 19. Nobody can

score. He elevated a team to number one by a very wide margin in team defense. But I get it. It's the minutes thing. I know. It's so important. It's critical. I'm trying to tell them you know, look, you got to be able to

this guy out there longer. So just keep the team, you know, don't run off on him so badly that he comes out and is resting. You know, we got to make sure he gets those minutes up. Well,

and not to mention like all of those blocks came in garbage time too. Oh, yeah. I don't think he's ever played in garbage time. The whole starting lineup just sits for fourth quarters now. I mean,

he had a play. And like he's facing off against, you know, Jolie guys. Those blocks really don't mean anything. They have been absolutely off the charts. Great. And I was so excited about tomorrow night because with Desmond Bayback and Morant,

Cracken, I think they had almost 60 combined yesterday. Bain looking more like himself this month. Yeah. Going back to right after Christmas. he's been clicking. I wanted to see Garland Mitchell, Vane Morant, and of course Mitchell goes out

yesterday with the strained groin, so you never want to hear that, and hopefully it's not something that's going to keep him out for a long amount of time, but I can't fathom that he would play tomorrow night, so I feel kind of robbed by that. You know, that's not a rest thing. That's not

his fault, but I mean you've got so much of it mirrors each other with these two teams, that are doing it with these incredible backcords. By the way, the Grizzlies are 18 and 3 when Desmond Bain plays in games. Just so you know. What's a record without Jha?

I mean, I have no idea. I mean, he missed. He hasn't missed that many. I know, I'm kidding. Yeah, I mean. Is Desmond Bain really the best player? The Jackson thing is the one. Yeah, of course.

Because he missed like 17 games to start the season. and they were okay. They were 30th in defensive rating. And they're first. I mean, truthfully, it's like all of those guys work so well together. Jaron Jackson, stabilizing the defense, facing the floor in offense.

John Moran, the Energizer, he's the engine. Desmond Bain fills all the gaps in between with his scoring, on ball, off ball. Just jump on the train, Kev. Don't get hit by it. Jump on it. Why can't I be on the train? I am on it.

You're hating ass. I love the Grizzlies. You're hating ass. I just love the Pelicans more. What is going on with, you know, this is the benefit. And trust me, as someone who works in a small market, I know what this is like, that there is a true benefit that you do not get when you're in New York, L.A., Chicago, as much, right? with less coverage of a team day to day and people really jumping on. The Ingram thing is weird.

It's weird, bro. It is. Yeah. Now they say it's on him to choose when he's going to return. What is going on? I know. It's very strange. They said he was coming back.

You know, you and me talked about that right after Zion got hurt. And then they said he was going to make an appearance on this past road trip. And then they're saying it's on him. You know, he'll decide when he's ready. and it's like, what is going on here? I know. With the toe. And there's just not that much clarity on the, what's wrong with it.

Or what kind of injury it is or I don't know. Like the Zion thing, it was clear. He blew a tire. You saw it. Yeah. I mean, that was clear as day. Anybody watching that game, he grabbed the rebound off the rim. He's full on sprinting, half court.

Bam, it pops. You can see it. And you see it happen with his hamström. with the Ingram thing, it's just odd. Like there's no, there's never been like a real timeline on this. Well, it seems like it'll be coming back soon, though. That's what they've been saying, though. I'm just saying he's warming up pregame and all that.

You know, it was two, three weeks ago, he had a press conference saying his confidence is up. He just needs to feel like himself again. So maybe. It's something to monitor because I will tell you, the aforementioned Desmond Bain, people know, he was out with a toe for a long time. he's going to have to get surgery in the offices. Yeah.

It's like a pain tolerance thing, and he can play through it. You can play with it, with what he's got. You can't. I think for New Orleans, though, from the New Orleans side of things, just like with Bean,

there's no urgency. Yeah. With New Orleans, there should be no urgency. They have a great cushion over the seven seed. They're, I think, four up right now in the Warriors of the seven.

So, unless you really start slipping and you could potentially fall into the plan. Everybody's more careful with injuries than they've ever been. Absolutely, unless you're in a position where you know, you can fall out of it. That's right. And so we were talking about Boston being four and a half ahead.

Memphis and Denver are now four and a half ahead of everybody in the West. They're creating some space. That's like a cushion. And, you know, even when you get behind them, it's New Orleans and SAC, right? I think SAC is four. As up right now, are you looking at it? Sack is four. Yep.

I mean, home court advantage. I know, pretty cool, huh? Light the beam. I gotta get up there for a game. What a friggin' dream this must be. I don't know post-ed-edline. Just 17 years of just getting feces thrown at your head. And now this, you look up in your 50 games into the season,

your home court advantage team, unbelievable. And I saw Mike Brown petitioning for Fox and Sabonis to be all-stars. So bonus will 100%. And Fox has got to get, I mean, look, they keep on, they're four. they're going to get some real serious consideration to possibly have more than one guy on there. But hell of a story. Also got to give them credit for selecting Keegan Murray with the fourth pick. They went with the guy who's older, 22-year-old rookie, you know, on paper, more ready.

And he indeed was. I mean, he's like out there draining threes, doing different stuff for them on offense and wear cutter, screener, picking pops. Like he's just such a good basketball player, solid defensively. You know who else deserves credit is Brown? Oh, of course. Because that's a guy that's been a coach in the NBA for a long, long time. And I think that in many cases, and Nick's fans know, because they went through this with that whole 448 bull crap and all that.

It's like, we want to be playing Quentin Grimes. Quentin Grimes obviously can help us more right now. It took forever to get there, but they finally got there. And with these older coaches, in many cases, they're not at to play the rookie who will inevitably make a lot of mistakes because they're figuring it out for the first time with the new speed, with new plays, new communication, new teammates, the whole thing. So they're going to make mistakes. And what they say is, I would rather run out the veteran that knows our offense, knows our defense. He's not going to make many mistakes, even though he's the inferior guy, because I want to win tonight. This is like, look, and I know Dave Yeager, I covered him, but literally Sacramento went through this over and over again,

and this was the big fight where he's playing, not Bidrens, what's the other guy's name, Bialitsa over Bagel. And they're fighting over it, you know what I mean? Because he's trying to win tonight because you're going to fire me if I don't win games. They're like, hey, Trey Young's killing it. Luca Dachukes is killing it. Aitin's doing good. We look like absolute idiots. Play our guy.

And then it's a fight. You know, and you get these situations. Mike Brown deserves credit because I remember you had it with Clifford, you know. And he'd make you so mad at Orlando. We're playing, you know, the vet over the younger guy. and that's just commonplace. Now he makes me mad at Charlotte. Yeah, right.

But I mean, look at how many minutes Murray's playing. Look how many starts this guy's gotten. I mean, he plays that guy. Yeah, he's playing like 30 minutes per game. Yeah. And it's reaped real benefit. Yeah. And not only for Murray, but for their team.

They just such a good team. Like, they just have so many good players. The Mike Brown's system taking elements of what the Warriors do. with all their motion and cutting and all that. And then with the Yokic style stuff for Sabonis, with the D.HOs, him bringing the ball up the floor. It's just such a beautiful style about. I got to tell you, though, Kep, that's a team.

That's a team that needs to go get something. What do you think they're missing? Oh, I know what they're missing. They got no protection at the rim. Mo bamba. You can literally just, I'm telling you, when it gets playoff time, you can be able to run a layoff. upline on them if they don't get them some help.

Yeah. They just don't have enough help. They don't have any. Nobody, nobody deters you. Who should they get you? I mean, I mentioned Bomba, as, like, we talked about him last week as a guy who's available. That's, like, more of the affordable target. Is there any, is there even anybody else that, you know, fits that category of, like, room

protection? I mean, at least portal, stand there. Yeah, I don't love the Purdle Subonus front court fit, though. No, he's not fast enough. to play with those guys. Bamba's shooting like 37% from three. Like you could play Bamba and Sabonis together if necessary. Yeah, because they've tried the Rishon Holmes thing and they're obviously out on him.

Holmes doesn't work right now. Metu's a solid player, but he's not providing that spacing for you. Like, is Bamba like really the best option? Miles Turner? But no, do you get Turner Sabonis again? No, I don't think so. Run it back. See, I don't think that works.

Like Turner would also be way more expensive. to actually land. And it's like, if they didn't work in Indiana, why try it in Sacramento? Is it, maybe it is Baba. You know what?

You might? Could you go grab Capella? I just, they want to play the Akongwu kid and they just say, hey. But I want a guy who could fit with Subonis,

though. I want to be able to play that two big lineup and retain spacing. Yeah. So how many shot blocking bigs are there that can also shoot threes

at a competent level that are exists. Very few. them exists and how many of them are available. Bamba is really like the only one that comes to mind. Actually, now that we're talking about this, Chris, now that we're talking aloud about their number one need and the potential available players,

that feels like a good marriage. Why not? Yeah. I'm just saying they need somebody that can, they need somebody that can stop somebody at the rim. Otherwise, they're going to get points in the painted to death. Truly. Because once you get to the playoffs,

slows down, these teams are going to, they're going to throw him in every pick and roll, and they just don't have anybody there to stop you from scoring at the rim. Yeah, because they're going to throw some bonus in pick and rolls, right? So then at least if you have, you know, it's kind of like the Boston thing with Time Lord. If he's out there in help defense, he can provide that size and side. Somebody who can be that off ball rim protection guy who comes in and helps and provides size. That's what they're missing. Yeah.

They need Walker Kessler. Oh my goodness. What a player. 20 and 21 yesterday. A historic game. Bar bet number two of the day, Kevin. The last rookie to have a 2020. And I will tell you you could guess until you were old and gray.

And you would never get this. It was back in 2014. and it was the great Gorgie Ging. Gorgie. Can you believe that? That's something else. We pulled up the list.

I was thinking like Hakeem. I know. Hey, we pulled up the list of my local show today and there were like guys that had done it. Gorgi Jeng had done it. He was the last one to do it. And Walker Kessler, first rookie to have

20-20 in a game since. So I promise you you can win a bar bet on Gorgi-Jank. But there's like the whole list of guys that have done it over the, years. And then it says, like, games they did it. So there's a couple of them that, like, did it twice. And then it says Shaquille O'Neal, eight.

Bro, Shaquille O'Neal did it eight times his rookie year. That's wild, dude. 20-20 games? He had eight of them. His rookie year. I was like, what the hell? Eight? As a rookie.

That's, I mean, that is. ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous. But Walker Kessler, and he does it against Minnesota, who, and I saw it last night, Kev, it was a tough spot last night. You're a T. Wolves fan. You've got to read this crap. Because people are like, no kidding. Walker Kessler for Rudy Gobert straight up. Would you do it? People are like, nope, I wouldn't trade Kessler. It's like, oh my God. And they gave up Malik Beasley. They gave up. Jared Vanderbilt, Patrick Beverly, and four first-round picks and Walker Kessler. I mean, listen, dude, like Kessler is doing the things Gobert did there for years, just on a rookie deal.

Like, he had a possession in the final minute of that game where he stopped three shots at the rim. Like Kyle Anderson ran a fake dribble handoff, attacked the basket, Kessler's there to stop it. And then he stopped the guy who attacked another closeout. And then they finished the play. He was right there and deterred, you know, I think it was. Anthony Edwards from even trying a shot at the rim and he threw the ball out of bounds. Three stops within a matter of 10, 15 seconds.

That's what he's done all year long. That's what he's continuing to do on a greater minutes workload. He's been absolutely sensational on defense. And then he's finishing over 70% of shots at the rim. On offense, he has great hands. He can put the ball on the floor if necessary and finish with his left hand or right hand

at the basket. he's not just a lob guy. Would you trade Walker Kessler from Rudy Gaubert right now if you're the Utah Jazz? The answer is no, because Kessler's on his rookie contract and in his first year making pennies.

So no. This is clearly no. And let me just say this. This is one of those where putting, and I've been guilty of this before, sometimes it's worked out and sometimes it doesn't,

putting a lot of stock into that tournament game, that last thing that you see and Kessler got played straight off the floor in the Miami game. Like Jim Lerniga had like a veteran laid in, like smaller team. And Miami just beat them to death. And they just played them off the floor. You know what I mean? In the same way that you see when it gets to the NBA playoffs and they'll just, you know,

they try to draw that guy away from the basket as much they can. They play five smaller guys. And it just makes the guy. unplayable. And that's kind of what happened to Walker in that last one. I was like, man, is this what's going to happen to this guy in the NBA? And the truth is, you can target guys like that when it comes to the postseason. We see it with Rudy. We see it with, you know, Brooke Lopez. We see it with some of the guys that end up in drop coverage quite a bit. But on a game in, game out basis, I mean, the guy is devastated. Like, really? And immediately,

good. Where did he, he went, was he Carolina? North Carolina. Then he transferred to Auburn, right? Yep.

He had big high school play. I mean, he was a big high school recruit too, I remember. Yeah, he was, yeah.

I mean, back then, like high school, where he was talking about himself as a player who could shoot three someday. That doesn't seem like

it's in the cards for him necessarily. That doesn't have to be. Yeah, I mean, he does what he does. Yeah, who knows down the line,

I think it'd be a standstill guy at the top of the key, but, you know, for what he doesn't, was elite rim protection as a rookie elite. That's not hyperboggling. It's elite.

You know, great rebounder, great finisher, get great hands. He can pass the ball a bit too. You know, he's not a D.HO handoff guy, but you throw him the ball and the roll. He can make kickouts. Solid. They got a hell of a player in Kessler, man. Yep. And Malik Beasley, I was reading yesterday, he has the most threes of any.

Anybody off the bench in the NBA? Yeah. I was like, that's crazy. I would not have won that barbed either. I know he shoots a lot. But, I mean, he's got the most makes. I would have thought, I guess Fool had to start so many games, right? I think that would have been my first guess, probably.

Anyways, yeah, the Walker Kessler game was crazy. And I know I saw last week you loved retweeting those DeAngelo Russell quotes. Oh yeah, those are goofy What is going on with this guy? Why is he talking so spicy? Maybe he wants out, maybe he's trying to push his way out. Seems that way, right? He's been involved in trade talks.

That Miami thing that we talked about a couple weeks ago just seems so perfect, right? We get to tell the quote to the listeners, though. Some of them didn't see it. He said to Jake Fisher of Yahoo, you either take advantage of me and my ability or F up the opportunity with me. It's as simple as that.

Can you imagine how miserable that locker room is? I know. A bunch of emo kids. Thank goodness that some of them are just in their own world. Oh, I'll tell you this. Our buddy John Krasinski, who does an unbelievable job covering Minnesota. He texts me on Saturday night,

and he's like, I had to let you know this. And he's like, so we're at half time of the game. I can't remember who Minnesota was born. He said it's half time. Ants walking out with an assistant coach back to the floor. And he's saying to the assistant coach, he's going, bro, did you see that Morant dunk? Yo, he cocked that shit back so hard.

And then he's going crazy talking about the Marant dunk. And he obviously just saw it at half time. I get watched it at halftime. And he's now like he's talking to everybody about the Morant dunk that he had on Jalen Smith in the Indiana Pacers game. And I'm like, I can't imagine. Like you got DeAngelo Russell over here thinking that he's so much better than he is. You got Rudy Gobert, like what's happened to be.

You got Carl Towns injured. and you got Anthony Edwards like, damn, you see that John Morant? He just needs to get in some fun guys around him. Please. By the way, you mentioned Kyle Anderson. They spoiled his triple double last night. He had a triple double and he got no shine for it

because Walker Kessler had a 2020 in that game. But they got to figure out what they're doing with Russell. Those quotes are crazy. It's going to be really interesting to see what happens with both of those teams because then there was the report today from Shams Sharania that the wolves are one of the teams that like Mike Conley.

We talked about Kyle Lowry as a fit for Minnesota with that, you know, all the character, you know, a stabilizing force. Well, Conley, you know, copy and paste everything we said

about Lowry to Conley as a fit in Minnesota. Mike's not vocal enough. He's not. I tell you, this isn't one of my favorite players ever. This is one of my favorite people ever.

But not even just his presence on the court, though. I think they need, do you think they need the vocal guy. Not just the common presence.

I think they need the adult in the locker room that they will all listen to. Yes. Shit, they all listen to Pat Bav. Okay. So you need some,

yes, they need somebody that is that veteran guy that will stand up and talk. So Conley, Conley plus somebody else then. Conley and your vocal guy. Well,

that's why I said, remember the whole Lowry thing when we talked about it. Like he's that. kind of guy that is not scared to, you know, you need somebody vocal with them. That's my opinion. They need a vocal veteran leader because you're now, you're getting fractured and they're all, you know, I don't even, what the hell was that Nasreed story? They're not going to sign him doing extension. Like, what the hell is that coming out for now? Like, I don't understand it.

Nause reads been great for them. He's a likable guy too. And I'm like, what the hell? Why is this coming out? They can't trade cat until the offseason because of the deal he signed. Yeah. Do you think that they could trade Gobert? I mean. Who would want them? You just bite the bullet. You just bite the bullet and say.

Yeah, even if you take a little bit less back than you gave up. You know, you swallow your losses. I just think that you can't do it right now. It's too fresh. And you just, I mean, you can't within six months turn that into. to nothing, you know. I'm not saying nothing. I'm saying you get something back. No, I know,

but I think you got to let it go on a little further. Yeah, you got to get it let it go on. Until the summer. Yeah, at least. I mean, you got to let at least let you got at least let 5% of the population forget what you did. To me, to me, to me the guy, I still think,

I still think you trade cat this offseason. That's what you do. I don't think the way they've played is, you know, the way they've played is not, hurt cat to me because they haven't been good without him so they would have been good without him they've been better lately though Chris

they've won like six out of eight they've not been but they've been better they've been much better where the record is it's not like they've been way better without it. Oh of course not overall but I'm just saying

very recently they've been a bit better go Bear had some great games you know he dominated the Clippers last week he's been better he's been better too he's like everybody's dominated

go go bear go bear had a 20-20 game himself he did he did against the clippers there's like 25 25 points 20 rebounds 21 rebounds just look just found it that really wasn't

tree falling in the woods huh yeah it did happen but nobody knew I heard it you and I replayed it a thousand dollars All right, let's talk about some of these latest rumors from Shams.

The T-Wills like Conley, you mentioned that. The Raptors and the Celtics like Yakup Fortal? Celtics being there surprises me a little bit. Yeah, what is that? I don't know. That feels like a leverage team. Like, oh, yeah, Boston likes them. Best team in the East.

Everybody better line up. He feels like a Raptor. Doesn't he? I mean, he was. Yeah. I mean, he feels like the Aaron Baines thing, right? Where they just kind of like go back and forth from San Antonio, Toronto. Like, you know.

And so he feels like he would fit there. So that one kind of makes sense to me. Pelicans, a new name interested in Bogdanovitch? I mean, is that Ingram insurance? is that just this is who we would play it for?

I mean, in Zion insurance? I mean, I don't know. Can he be both? Yeah, but I mean, you want him as a bench guy?

I don't know. I mean, whatever he is, like I'd happily give up Devante Graham, Jackson Hayes, the salaries with a pitch.

Oh, come on. I take DeVante Graham and, Jackson Ains Yeah Getting Bogdanovich For that

Yeah I'm saying As the salaries And then you get your first round pick Or two You have enough you can give up You can top anybody's offer if you want to But why do you need him But why wouldn't you want him

He's a very good basketball player Because you have a starting three And a starting four Yeah but why wouldn't you want him I just said Yeah but he's another good basketball player To add to your rotation just not in my closing five guys that's not like I'm getting him as a bench guy that's a starting

he might be a closer fantastic point okay so who's sitting but you said it yourself but you said it yourself insurance for those guys okay so that's that is that the signal that we're getting that it's insurance and and also like you could be playing some offense defense down the stretch herb jones might be benched you put out Bogdanovich at the end of games. Like you could roll out like Valanchunis, Zion, Ingram, Bogdanovich, McCollum. That could be your five to close a game. It's just another option.

Maybe it's Trey Murphy on some nights or Herb Jones in some situations, but it's just another. Sometimes it might be Larry Nance instead of Valentunus or maybe you're playing super small and you got Zion at the five and certain against the Warriors in a playoff series. They're going to need a point guard

when it comes playoff time. that's what they're going to need. I would use my assets to get a guard. Their point guard is Zion. Oh, come on. I saw what happens when you make your point guard Zion. And Ingram. He had nine turnovers.

He had nine turnovers. Literally nine. Yeah, I mean, he had a bad game. It's by committee, though. Well, that's what you look like against a good team. Yeah, when you got defensive player of the year, Jaron Jackson. I mean, what can you say?

In the 26 minutes, You must really re-tab it. The Hornet. I mean, you know, they're a seller at list, but it's like, okay. I told you that I saw him two weeks ago, and I'm like, all right, there's probably like two of these dudes. Will you sell me Mark Williams? Because I take him. You're not selling me Lamello.

So who else? Terry Rose is having a down year compared to the last two years. but I'd be intrigued by him as a target still. Rozier. When I checked, I believe, I mean, he was going neck and neck with Trey for a minute. Dylan Brooks was up there with him. I believe Terry Rozier has taken the most shots

with the worst percentage in the NBA. Yeah, it's up there. He is the most attempts with the lowest percentage. I don't know what the hell happened to. How about PJ Washington? I take him as a role guy Yeah

Give him a shot I mean they're not extending him So I mean you could go probably get him for nothing Yeah You know You don't even have to give up You wouldn't even think a first round pick for him Right

Probably I don't think so No I think PJ Washington Could be better than he's been though Like I said I kind of like him He reminds me of those old-timey role players

You need those guys The PJ Browns The Leon Poe's the, you know, these guys are useful. Jamichael Greens, these guys are useful. I could, yeah, I take it back. I could use PJ Washington. So you could keep the Plumlies.

And I used to love Terry, but he could probably keep Terry. And also keep the Haywards. Yeah, you keep them. Yeah. You like the other McDaniels? He's fine. Heard, it's too bad. Could a handstring injury out.

And Ubray's done. Yeah. He's out. I mean, that's like a, that's like you see a big yard sale sign. You know, sometimes you stop by. You stop at this one. You're like, eh, I think I'm ready to go. Just drink it.

He ain't got nothing there. I was trying to find a 52 Mickey Mantle and all you got is a damn Mickey Mouse watch. All right. College basketball has been going on hot and heavy. I've been watching more recently. I have. I've been watching more of these guys trying to check them out. The guys

at Arkansas, there's the kid at Michigan. A lot of people love. Jet Howard. Yeah, Howard. So I've been trying to get a little bit more in the flow, but you've got the draft show that's going on every week with you and J. Kyle Mayn. And

in addition to that, the draft guide is about to drop? Dropping on Thursday. being told. Wow. Inside the ringer say dropping Thursday. Yeah, so that's coming out on Thursday with my top 30 big board.

Is this earlier? Way earliest we've ever dropped. Yeah. We're in January. Yeah. I think in 2016, the last year I did it myself, I dropped it in January or February. But so this is the earliest with the ringer ever. So I'm excited about that.

It's the Wemby year, the scoot year. Yeah. So, you know, it makes sense to do it early. And I'm excited about it. I really like this draft class right now, Chris. Up to what? Up to what number? I mean, I think there's guys worth gambling on late first round,

like Jordan Hawkins out of Yukon. Have you watched any Yukon? Like Hawkins, Andre Jackson, who won't be in the top 30, unfortunately. But they have, you know, Donovan Klingin, freshman big coming off their bench. Like, Yukon's got some guys. I like the whole first round right now.

There's just a lot of good quality talent. it's pretty flat. I think this is the type of draft where you're going to see a play. Like one person might have a guy at 30. Another one might have him at 15 or 16. Like I think after the lottery,

it kind of flattens out a bit in terms of who you're going to have ranked where. It's all a matter of preference and what your team's needs are. So I know at the very top. You got the Thompson twins and you got Scoot, you got Wemby, and you got these guys that have not been part

of college basketball. as you get farther down in that first round, is it generally college heavy? A lot of college. Is there not many overseas outside of the very top guys? Yeah, like Rupert is a French wing who's playing in the NBA for New Zealand right now. He's like one of the main international guys who will likely be a first rounder.

You're done with French guys. You swore them off, you told me. No, I'm definitely not done with them. Oh, you're back in? It's the Wemby year. He's number one, Chris. We got a Frenchie at number one. And Rupert is pretty good.

I think he's a hard-nosed defender. Really like him a bunch. Yeah, Baba Miller out of Florida. They only played one game so far, but he's intriguing as well. Okay. But it does get pretty college-heavy. Oh, very college-heavy. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Very, very college-heavy. I can't wait to look at it. It's going to be a Thursday. it drops. Thursday, yes, that's what I'm told. Ring her draft God. Everybody keep a look out for that. It comes out on

Thursdays. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. Kevin, I will talk to you later this week. Have a good week.