The Mismatch - The Bucks' Adjustments, Kawhi Leonard Speculation, and Late First-Round Sleepers

Episode Date: July 16, 2021

KOC and Verno start by discussing the adjustments the Bucks have made to tie the series (1:25). Then they discuss why they think Giannis doesn't appear to get the same hype from his peers that other players get (23:30). Then they talk about Kawhi Leonard's future with Clippers after his knee injury and rumored unhappy experience with the Clippers medical staff (42:18). They wrap up by talking about a couple of potential late first-round prospects in Ayo Dosunmu and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl (49:10). Check out The Ringer's NBA Draft Guide. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nobody knows what's going on, but we watch the Olympics. We just turn on our TVs and become obsessed with sports we haven't thought about in four years. This is why we made the ringer guide to the summer games. I'm your host, Roger Sherman. Each day during the Tokyo Olympics, I'll tell you about a different sport, athlete, or storyline. We'll be releasing new episodes every day starting July 19th. Follow along on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so you know exactly how to watch the Olympics. Welcome to the mismatch.

I'm Chris Vernon. He does every Friday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.kha, Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Colnsk, aka Kevin O'Climber, Kevin O'Colns, Kevin O'Candleand, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Cham, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin. Burdo! What up? How you doing?

We have a very good NBA finals going on, Kevin. Oh, yeah, we do. Two, two. Yeah, I'm actually glad that this is one of the only pods that we have done that is not a instant reaction show. So we've had a little time to think about what we've witnessed through the first four games of the series. And one of my first thoughts was it was in one of the pods last week. I believe it was after game two.

And I said, we're going to be careful this time because we know the way this goes. They're going to walk into a hornets nest in Milwaukee. Milwaukee very well may play very well. Drew Holiday won't be like this. Chris Middleton won't be like this. But then everybody's going to turn. And as soon as they win a couple games, it's going to be like, oh, is Milwaukee figured them out now?

And what's wrong with this guy? And what's wrong with this guy? And that's just the nature of reacting to a game at a time. That being said, after four games with the way that they played out, and we got a very, very close one last night, I don't. have, and this doesn't make for a great opinion-based stuff, but I don't have some intensely strong opinion on who has the advantage right now within the series. And I think if we would

have done the pod last night, it's more likely that we would have been all in on Milwaukee, because we just saw it, right? We just saw it. Everything feels terrible for Phoenix. Everything feels great for Milwaukee. But now Phoenix gets to go back home to a raucous crowd. Devin Booker was unbelievable in that last game. Not unlike Janus Hansa Tocompo was great in a loss in game two. And now if you want to tell me you're sure of what's going to happen in game five, then I am more than welcome to listen to people's opinions that have strong opinions.

I just on this one, man, I really feel like you could go into a game. And there are a few things that have become commonplace, but we really don't know what we're going to get. And I think that's what makes for a good series, honestly. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think this series here, you said it last week, Chris, not going to overreact to Phoenix being up to O, especially going back to Milwaukee.

Also not going to overreact going back to Phoenix now with it being 2-2. But I will say this, as the series has developed, we have seen things change. We have seen Brooke Lopez play a lower amount of minutes that he was early in the series. We're seeing more Janice Sampeta-Compo playing center. We're seeing more of those spaced out lineups with Yannas playing center. On the other side, you know, we're seeing that Sun's offense not getting to their offense quite as easily. Booker obviously had an incredible game for 42 points. he was sensational.

But stuff has been a little bit harder on Chris Paul with Drew Holiday. A little. Yeah, I mean, a lot harder with Drew Holiday on him more often. I mean, I couldn't. So we've seen that.

We've seen the series develop. You're not going to overreact on projecting forward, but I do think the bucks with the tweaks they've made to their lineups and to the, the, the personnel that they're utilizing in games with Bobby Porter's playing a heavier role. With even Jeff T. getting a handful of minutes off the bench that's to get another little playmaking presence. the bucks have figured some stuff out.

Like doesn't it feel that way? It does. But here's, and I think this is the, this is the benefit of time that right after the game, I sure, I surely was feeling like, oh, wow, the, the bucks being able to get that one, tie it back up are in a good spot right now for sure. but then with the benefit of time, I cannot help but get out of my head. The sons were winning the game with two minutes to go.

So what am I, am I basing all of my grand sweeping judgments on what I think about has happened in this series based upon two minutes of basketball because if the sons win those last two minutes, they win the game. Honestly, if Janus doesn't block the lob to Aiton, they may win the game. You just don't know. But, I mean, they had the lead with two minutes to go in that game on the road.

And so how am I supposed to convince myself that things are all wrong with Phoenix? The other thing is this, Kev. And you start to think back to other series because we've talked about, Lord knows, every single game that has taken place throughout all this. And, you know, after the first two games of this one, and we did this also in the Clipper series, Phoenix is awesome. They've got so many guys that star in their role.

Phoenix really shares the ball. Phoenix has a few guys that can take the game over. Aiton's taking this massive leap. And so, like, all of those things were things that we believed. And Chris Paul at his apex scoring 70-something points. in the last game of the Clipper series, the first game of this series. And then you fast forward.

And last night, you know, I'm seeing people, it's like, oh, is it, Chris Paul's played so many minutes. He's 36 years old. They're picking him up 94 feet, you know, and making him go the entire time. Maybe they figured out a little bit with Chris Paul. Maybe he's injured.

Maybe there's something wrong with him that we don't know. He does have that wrist injury. Right. He does have that. but I will say this. Game three against the clippers, Chris Paul was five for 19. Game four, he was six for 22 with four turnovers,

and they won that game, 84 to 80. Game five, he was pretty good, not great percentage, had some production, though. And then he came back in game six, and he's 16 for 24, for 41.8 assist, four rebats. I just feel like every time a guy plays crappy,

we were so shocked by it, especially great players, that something's wrong, right? So last time it was, you know, Devin Booker's played the third or fourth most minutes of anybody in the playoffs. You know, Devin Booker broke his nose in three places because he had less than 10 points in that game. And it's like you come up with some kind of reasons as to why the guy played poorly, right? So now what? David Booker almost had 50 points last night, right? So what now I'm to expect that in game three, he couldn't play through the broken nose

and he was tired because of all the playoff minutes and all this other baloney, but then that doesn't affect him at all in game four? I mean, I think these are just kind of the ebbs and flows of these series. And we have not heard the last of Chris Paul. Of course not. I don't care if they picked him up 85.

feet from the basket. I don't care if he's old. I don't care if his wrist is messed up. There is no way that that was just such a poor representative of that player last night. I don't know what the hell was going on with him. You said this is the ebb and flows of a series. Isn't it also just the ebb and flow of sport period? Yes. Sometimes great players have underwhelming games, especially against great opponents. And in the regular season, like if this had happened, a five for 13, with five turnovers for 10 points. It'd be one rough game during a long regular season.

But it happens during the finals when it's only two teams remaining. And both of these teams are under the microscope with every decision they make with the way the players perform, the choices that they make in the court. And it becomes, it's Chris Ball tired. Is he choking? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But he could come out, game five and have 45 points and 12 assists and zero turnovers. And everybody's talking about the point got again.

You just don't know game to game. You don't know game the game, which is why, like, when it comes to looking at this stuff, it's from a process standpoint. Like, what are the Bucks doing to make things harder on that son's offense? Obviously, Drew Holiday defending Chris Paul more often, getting in passing lanes more often, making things harder on them on the offensive end of the floor for bridges and crowd or coming off the catch when they're attacking closeouts, whatever it might be. And the Bucks have done a better job.

But ultimately, Chris, the stuff about Chris Paul. it's partly what the Bucks are doing but it's partially just he had a rough game and you can't rule this guy out from having a monstrous performance in game five or six or if it reaches game seven like it can happen and I think that's true

also on the other side here because the Bucks won that game with Drew Holiday having only 13 points on four of 20 like it wasn't a great night for him and likewise you called it with Middleton when is the big Middleton game? When is it? 40 points.

Right? Granted it was our 33 shots. Like it was a big Middleton game, period. Like you needed it. He had 24, I think, in the second half. That's a big number. Monster shots too. Like big time.

Yeah. Oh, God. And I read something just outrageous this morning. I don't know if you saw this stat. But in this postseason, in the fourth quarter, he has had 15 game tying or go-ahead shots in this, in the fourth quarter or overtime. of games throughout this postseason, the only one that has done that before in the last 25 years is LeBron in 07.

What? Yes. I do not see that stat. What? What? I swear, I told you 100 times, wait 24 hours. If you think he's underwhelming, wait 24 hours and you might end up being able to win your argument. If you think he's wildly underrated and it doesn't get the credit he deserves,

wait for 24 hours because the game's coming, right? Like, you just really don't know. But that was a crazy stat to read that 07 LeBron in the last 25 years. You think about all the great players and all the post seasons. That's maddening. That is wild, man. That is wild. Well, and the Drew Holiday thing, you know, I do think there is something too. I do think. I do think, I do think Chris Paul's got a true holiday problem, you know, and no one's ever going to be focused on defense and what's happening defensively, but it does take a lot out of you offensively. I actually do buy that, like, if you are fighting over every screen, if you are picking a guy up 80 feet from the basket, making him turn, turn, turn, just to get the ball up court,

not letting him get into the pick and rolls early, not having a big lug stand below the free throw line so that after he comes around the screen, he can just pull up. Like, there's a lot of adjustments that have taken place making life difficult on Chris Paul, not the least of which is making sure Drew Holiday has intense focus on not only guarding him,

but guarding him for the length of the court, making that hard and also not allowing himself to be screened off of him. These are all things that are making life difficult on Chris Paul. But Chris Paul did not become a million-time All-Star and a first ballot Hall of Famer by not being able to deal with good defenders, even great defenders. He's been dealing with this, you know, he's been the guy for years and years and years. So I do think that we have not heard the last of him, but that is something that is worth noting.

And I think that part of Drew Holliday's 5 for 20 is probably, you know, the defensive effort is to blame for that. I think that's legitimate. But it's a miserable number. And the truth is we'd be talking about Drew Holiday being 5 for 20 if they don't win the last two minutes of that game. Right. Sometimes I like to flip the box score and I say, okay, let's say the last two minutes played out differently.

What are we talking about? The greatness of Devin Booker, right? You're talking about Crowder's big, extra, you know, him getting you double digits in a game where you don't necessarily expect it. Aitin being able to stay on the floor for longer in this game and Yonis not having some kind of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar like, numbers by and large. And there's a lot of things analysis that would be flipped. But I do think the Paul thing is,

is worth noting because that was, that was just so, so bad. I mean, it really was. It was bad. By the end of that game, do you see when he was standing in the corner, campaign had the ball?

And he went over to the corner and stood there. Like he wasn't even. running the show. This isn't the fourth quarter. I was like, this is like, it was like, Cam Payton is James Hardin and he's back with the Rockets and he's just going to go run and stand over here, except it's campaign. It's not Hardin with the ball. Like you, you can't go stand over there and just let Cam do this. I don't know what was going on. I think, I mean, obviously everybody's talking about Janus today and rightfully so. The block he had on DeAndre. 8 and was just

magnificent, right? Like, what a display of athleticism and hand-eye coordination and toughness and heart? Like, it was incredible. And Janus, playing more center with him being involved in more screening actions

without Lopez or Portis on the floor a lot more often as a series has developed, that has made life so much more difficult on the Sons as well because he has been a dominant force on the defensive end of the floor. This series, when the suns run a pick and roll when Yannis is defending the screener,

they're scoring only 0.9 points per chance. That's a very low number. It would have ranked highly over the course of the full regular season. And that's whether Yannis is switching the screen or dropping in the pick and roll. And they've mixed and matched that a bunch throughout the season. But like this guy, two weeks after hyper extending his knee, has just been a straight up dominant force on both ends. And on defense, the block against Aiton, as well as the following possession when Chris Paul turned the ball over and Yannis was right there.

His presence was one of the causes of the turnover. He is just making just a significant difference on that end. And it won't shock me one bit if we see even more Yonnas at the five as a series continues to develop. And that could bode well for the Milwaukee Bucks. Well, and we said this even after game two. And he was extraordinary in that game, which is they have the best player. that's the team with the best play. Yeah.

Now, the collective might be too much, right, with Phoenix. And it still might be too much. But he's the best player in the series, and he certainly performed. He's the only one that has been infinitely consistent. Like, no matter. Every game. Like, he is the guy that, like, there hasn't been much you've been able to count on. You've had a, you've had monster Chris Paul games.

You've had duds. You've had monster Chris Middleton games. games, you've had duds. You've had mostly duds from holiday offensively. You've had monster Devin Booker games and you had duds. But Janus, like, that is one thing you can really count on. And let's just talk about that block for a minute. I don't think it is hyperbole or prisoner of the moment stuff to say,

I will remember that forever. I think I really will. I will too. I mean, it's the NBA finals. And just that play, we see that play a hundred times a game. I mean, there are so many great guards. And then the, you know, penetration and then the little loft up pass. I mean, and then the guy finishes behind.

It's how D'Andre Jordan had a whole career of it. Clint Capella has a whole career of it now. People have rim runners. And D'Andre Aiton is. been feasting on being able to catch lobs at the rim and finish. But the, and, and it is just commonplace that when that big comes up and he shows,

then you just loft it over his head. Nobody recovers on those. What is it? I don't, I honestly don't think I have seen somebody guard it and then be the guy that recovers on a lob, much less recover on a lob. and block it clean.

Like that is, I was having a discussion with a friend today. I was like, I don't think anyone else in the world could do it. Maybe Davis. Maybe Anthony Davis. Maybe. But that is just, it's something that you just never see. And the fact that he pulled that off in a two-point game in the last couple of minutes of the NBA finals is an outrage, truly an outrage.

So a little pop quiz here for you, Chris, and for the listeners. According to Second Spectrum, this season, there were 2,881 passes thrown for lobs that resulted in a shot attempt. Of those 2,881 lob attempts, how many of them do you think were blocked? This includes the playoff, so it includes last night's blocked by Yannis. how many of 2,881 shots off a lob have been blocked. And this includes like help defense. Yeah, it includes all of them.

It does include help defense, not just at like Janus is the pick and roll screen. Not somebody guarding two people. Not just that. Yes. So it's all lobs. 2,881. I'll say I'll say less than 100 because that would be one in every 28. So I'll say, I'll say 70.

Not, not too far off. 44. Wow. 44. So 1.5% of shots off a lob pass are blocked, a very low amount. I believe of shot attempts like jump shots only are blocked less frequently. Like law like layup attempts, you know, are blocked more off and far more off. Oh, I'd love to see the 44 because I guarantee you the 44, the guy that blocked it is not

the guy that's guarding the past. I watched through a lot of them and like, you know, there are some where it's the guy defending both, but in the way in which Yannis did it, like it was bang, bang. I know, I know like the pass by Booker was a little high where he had to go out and reach it, but let's be serious here. Like Aiton was slamming that if Yonis wasn't there. He was dunking that ball. 100%. Yonis, he turned around like you watched the play in slow motion. We did like a breakdown of it on the ringer's YouTube page last night. Like we were inspired to do it. Me and Dylan Burkey video producer like, we got to do this.

We got to do like a quick like insight insightful thing on this. You watch in slow motion. Yannis begins turning back to Aiton as soon as Booker begins lifting his arm up to make the pass. He knew the lob was coming. Like it is a combination of his amazing length and athleticism, but also his brain. Like the intelligence and awareness to do it in that moment. I mean, look, we've seen some great blocks in finals history.

Obviously, LeBronch chased down. Plenty of people today we're talking about he keem's block on a on a jumper at the end of the clock in the 90s, you know, but we haven't seen one like this. I remember a big one, Genobley blocking Harden from behind. I remember that. And even that's the playoffs, you know. No, no, no, but that was like a, I mean, that was just remarkable.

crazy from behind without fouling him and Genoply was already old when he did it. That was wild. That was something else. Yeah. I mean, to get your, that was just a crazy one. But I still remember it because it was such a big stage. Because you also don't see block jumpers like that very often. Those are a rarity.

Just like blocked lob attempts are a rarity from the guy defending the screen. It's like I was blown away. I screamed. I flipped out as it happened. happened. Yeah, Janus is something else, man. He is something else. So let me ask you this, because I was having a discussion with my buddies today. So we got tagged on a tweet, but it was I actually almost tweeted this out last night, but I thought to myself, you know, I'm about to go to bed. This isn't one of those where you just drop it there and then just walk away completely

and let the flames go. Like, yeah, you know, I need to discuss this with people if it does come up or whatever. So I was like, it's just, it's not worth it. I'm going to sleep. But then I woke up this morning and we had gotten tagged

on something very similar to what I was going to tweet last night late after the game. And this was, it happened to be from like a Janus fan account or something. I don't know if you saw this. But the idea was the same

as what I was going to put out there, which was that it, it struck me. as odd or, and I don't want to say anything other than odd, because I'm not saying bad. It struck me as odd that last night when that play takes place, right, which is clearly a moment everybody, you know, in the community of social media that's all NBA fans. We're all talking about it, all buzzing about it. This is one of the greatest plays we've ever seen.

It happened in this big moment. Oh, my God, Janus, the whole night, right? and yet it was noticeable to me that typically when things happen like that, even the Booker third quarter when it was happening, the community of NBA fans, media, et cetera, and community of NBA players, it's the time when everybody feels like we're all fans and we're all watching it because you would see Kevin Durant say,

oh my God, Damien Lillard's in God mode, or you'd see players go, Kevin Durant's not even human, or you would see who would Devin Booker's on one, or whatever it may be, right? It is noticeable that nobody, I never see players celebrating Janus in the way they celebrate many of their other peers.

And so it struck me as, like, I wonder why that is. I wonder if it's because he's not buddy, buddy in the same way, right? Not like on the team USA stuff, working out with everybody in the summer. Like maybe he's not as tied in. Which he's not.

Like he's very much a solo, you know, his own guy. Yes. Right? Because he's by all accounts, everybody loves the guy. Outstanding person.

So nobody just likes him, right? But there's a difference between liking a guy and then celebrating a guy. And, And I wondered if it's because, because typically, like, if LeBron does that or if another player does that, you know, the NBA community, I'm talking to the players. We would see all of them celebrating it. Oh, my God, he's not real, whatever. And I don't know if it's because he's not his buddy, buddy with everybody, or if it's like a big guy thing. I actually kind of lean towards it's a big guy thing.

and I don't know if it's resent or whatever, but do you remember a couple years ago with the whole the James Harden saying, if all I did was dunk, you know what I'm saying? That doesn't even take any skill. Yeah. Did he say the quiet part out loud

of the way a lot of guys feel? And so they don't have the same level of respect for the exploits as we do, right? Because they feel like what they accomplished so much harder to do because they weren't, you know, he's literally a freak of nature, right? Obviously, he has made the most of his God-given gifts, but I mean, he is seven feet tall and he does have these condor-esque arms and he is strong as an oxen, all this stuff. And so it's the idea of, well, yeah, of course you score 30 and grab 18. You're bigger, stronger and

faster and everybody, but like, nobody ever really held that against LeBron being that. I guess Yonis is just bigger and he doesn't shoot very well. And so I don't know. Do you think it's a, do you think it's a, they, they don't celebrate because maybe they I kind of think like maybe they wouldn't have Shaq either, you know what I mean? Like back in the day, it would have been like, yeah, cool. Shaq just dunked on everybody. Congrats.

you're like you're twice as big as everybody out on this court you should be doing that i don't know yeah what do you make i had i hadn't thought about this i don't know either chris i mean but you're a hundred percent right it's got to be maybe a mixture of all of that and it has to be right because like you said the hardened part i'm sure james hardin isn't the only player who's like shorter than six foot seven to feel that way like he can't be the only one there's probably many players that of like this guy, seven, who can jump in as long. I wish I had that body. If I had that body,

I would be the greatest player of all time. Like, I'm sure there are players who say that and think that, feel that, and they're like jealous or envious of the, the God-given body that he has. But by feeling that way, though, and holding that against somebody,

like, Janus didn't choose to be 6'11, but he did choose to be 240 pounds and a Brit. and strong while maintaining his quickness and agility, which takes work and strength and conditioning and focus on your body and the right nutrition and the right way, you know, sleeping, like everything. All this like nutrition is, you know, health and sleep and all that.

And it also takes improvement in like in terms of understanding the game. Like I just said earlier with that block, he knew the past was coming. He knew it was coming. As soon as Booker went into a motion up with a pass, he was spinning right to Aiton. It was a brilliant play in terms of awareness and intelligence on the court. That doesn't come just because you're tall. That comes because you study the game and you're prepared. It comes because you have done that many times before.

He's blocked more lob attempts the last three seasons than any player in the NBA. Anybody. And you know this. If Kevin Durant made that same exact play, people will be going insane over it. Yes. I'm talking about his peers. They're going nuts. Yeah.

And when Paul goes for 40 points, it's like, Point God, point God. He'd been the, you know, you know, you've been sleeping on, Chris Paul, still going at 36. And it's like, I just find it very strange that nobody particularly celebrates, like his peers don't, in the way that they celebrate so many others. Do you think there's also fear, Chris? Do you think there's fear because this guy is 6 foot 11 and he's a dominant force on both ends

and he's seemingly still getting better? He's only 26 years old. Do you think there's any part of it? I don't think it's fear. No. I think they're hating. Just hating. And by the way, like, I feel like you're way more plugged into what people

were tweeting about. Yeah. I wasn't on Twitter that much last night. I was, I was on the phone for part of the beginning of the second half. I just see. I just see. I mean, I, look, I mean, I follow these guys. But also when you, when you're part of that NBA Twitter community and you're, it's

almost like a sports bar as the game's going on and you're reading what everybody's saying about it. inevitably, even if I don't follow these guys, it all shows up on my timeline. I mean, that night that Damian Lillard was sending games into overtime, it felt like every player in the NBA was going, oh my God, oh my God, this guy's not human.

This is cut it out, Dame, you know, whatever. And I never, you know what's funny? That was the only guy I saw tweet about Janus last night, was Lillard. the guy that I just said everybody was tweeting about during the playoffs. Lillard was the only guy last night. And it was just something basic. Like they won that game because of the honest block or something like that.

Right. But I just know when you, the reason I'm bringing this up is because that's one of the great plays in NBA finals history. That's not hyperbole. It really is. In a 100 to 98 game for that to take place. And it would typically be celebrated. in a way that I found it odd that it wasn't. Like, I mean, every other, every other guy that does something crazy.

I mean, I saw guys tweet. I saw NBA players tweeting during the third quarter that, you know, that boy book's not real. You know, that guy, he's going crazy. Is it because jump shots are cool and dunks or not? Has it been reversed? Do you think that's what changed? Yeah, I think it's probably, it's probably why Zion wasn't in the top of the jersey sales. you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. And the reason big guys typically aren't. I mean, maybe back in the day, we, yeah, it's big guys never get celebrated in that way. I mean, maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Yonis, I felt like had kind of broken through that. But maybe it's always just going to be, if you've got these immense physical advantages, you're not going to get the same credit as maybe you deserve. It's not like, you know, if we went back 10 years, people wouldn't be like, oh, Tim Duncan's surgical with the bank shot.

Like, nobody would have killed. You know what I'm saying? Right? Like, it's not cool. It's not as fun. It's not, right? Little kids don't go out back and, like, pretend to be the big fundamental or pretend to, you know, drop step on people. They're freaking Steph Curry.

They're jow rant. They're Trey young. They're whoever, right? And maybe players are just, yeah, and maybe players are just the same way. That like, yeah,

it's not as impressive if you're seven foot doing this crap as if you're six foot. Like, if you talk to Biggs, I remember back in 2016, I did a story on like the, like the,

I forget the title was like reemergence of the big man. And I like the main person I talked to of the story with, was Carl Anthony Towns. And we chatted about a bunch of stuff including who he watched, Like growing up, who were the people he tried to model his game after when it was like all guards and all wings. And that's true for almost any big you talk to.

It's always guards in wings like two guards, point guards, wing scores. That's who even bigs love to watch. So like that's part of the reason why we're probably seeing a lot more bigs play with so much more skill because they're trying to be like the guards and wings. Well, the other thing is. Yeah. And I think I think you go back to the Hardin thing, which is the quiet part out loud. They watch them at the free throw line. They watch him jack in the three.

They roll their eyes. Yeah. It's like, you can't even, this guy can't even shoot. Like, he can't even shoot. He can't even cross somebody over. He does shooting. It's more than shooting. Yeah.

He does the, he does the freight train Euro step. Cool. Like, but like, look at like all these skills I've got. And this guy, they're counting down. at the free throw line because he's taken 100 years. So I do think they're probably so resent that goes into it or something, but probably also the big guy thing. You're probably, I mean, I do.

I think that's probably so and that they don't respect it as much or feel interested in celebrating it. Do you think Yonis is cool, Chris? Absolutely. I think he's cool too. I do too. I bet a lot of our listeners do as well. Yes.

and he's also as likable a superstar as you could ever imagine. Yeah. That's just true. And has one of the best journeys to get to this point. And sports are human history for that matter. Well, for those that didn't see it, I believe it was game two. Game two was in the one in Phoenix where he went off. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The way he went crazy, right? there was a point where he was at the free throw line, you know, and they're doing the 10, 9, 8, you know, they're counting down, whatever. And Mike Breen, who I just want to say on aside, I think Mike Breen is absolutely unbelievable. Like, big moments, he's great. But he is also, he has, I am so envious, he has the ability to tell a story. in a very finite amount of time that really can make you think in a way or, it's just a gift that he has where what you would seemingly think would take a long time to say doesn't for him.

And I take a long time to say everything. So that's why I look at him and I'm so envious. He told this story at the free throw line. I don't know how many of our listeners caught it. And it happened a week ago, is game two. He's at the free throw line and he says, Janice Ante Coupo,

and it's this moment where it's like taking it all in of how he got here. And he says, when Janus was growing up, he was out on the street and he was hustling. He was selling DVDs. He was selling CDs and stuff on the street of Greece. As a child,

he's a child trying to raise money. so that his parents, you know, his family had the money. At that time, he had one pair of shoes for him and his brother to play basketball then. They would share. I'm getting chills, man. I really am. Think about this. He said they would share the one pair of shoes.

So if his brother wore him for a game, then the same pair of shoes is what Yonis would have to wear for the game. But they couldn't play at the same time. And he said, and now he's won two MVP's, he has his own shoes that he is wearing. And after every single game, home and road, he takes that pair of shoes off and he hands him to a kid in the stands, no matter where he is. And obviously part of that is because once upon a time,

he was a kid that didn't even have shoes to play in. He shared them with his brother. He's working when he's working when he. He's a child trying to raise money for the, and, and Breen tells this story in the course of like, well, this is actually going to be funny. I guess it speaks to how long it takes Yonis to take two free throws. Maybe it was a long story, but in the course of Yonis at the free throw line. Under a minute. Yeah. In the course of Yonis at the free throw line.

And he ends it by talking about him giving that pair of shoes away after every game. And I remember sitting there watching the game, but just being like, damn, man. Yeah, man. That is unbelievable. I mean, what a, what a story worthy of celebration because, you know, imagine being affected by anything that somebody has to say about you when that's where you came from, you know. And he still has this level of humility and gratitude and care that he showed. people and he's always smiling like i mean that no i think he is very worthy of celebration

yeah i mean he is 150 000 percent worthy appraiser like this guy yannas his story his family he's a role model right like he is somebody people can look look up to for a lot of different reasons and like mike breen i thought i think he's called a brilliant finals is cool you mentioned that story in game two i remember that game three when he shouted out mirror and fader my co-worker, her new book coming out, Janus, the improbable rise of an NBA MVP. I think that's out August 10th, August 10th. I'm looking forward to reading that.

That'll be the long version of Yana's story, the longest version that we have and the most extensive version we have. If you've ever read anything Mirren's written, she is so in depth, so insightful with the way she tells stories. So I can't wait to read her first book about Janus. And the way this season has developed, Chris,

nobody I'd want to read about more than Janus. Nobody. I think that's fair. I, you know, as we as we think about this series and it going back to Phoenix, it is unsurprisingly to me, Phoenix is favorite to win the next game. Like we said at the very beginning of this, I told you, I said it feels like a home court series where these teams are going to be able to hold serve when they've both been so much better playing in front of their home audiences.

And if I believe what I said, which is you have not seen the last of Chris Paul, he ain't going out like this like he did in that game. And then I hark him back to that Clipper series, there was a point in that Clipper series where I told he's five for 19. That's what he was in game three of that series. By the time we got to game six, he was 16 for 24 for 41 points and the friggin' sons scored 130 on the road. Now, I will say this.

They need to get back to the 115 to 125 mark. Like that's where their, you know, their scoring's been down a little bit. Yes, they can win the one-off game like they did with the Clippers, the 84 to 80 game. But they're at their best and they're really cracking when they play with pace. And they get up and down the court and they're the smaller team.

the more that thing can get moving and in transition and the score gets higher, I think the more it favors Phoenix. And I would assume that they'll be able to get back to more of that in Phoenix when they play in game five. And so you told me they went game five wouldn't shock me in the least. I'm with your. And the other thing is, get. It's not like it would rule it out completely if they didn't. I mean, shit, we didn't.

They blew that game to the Clippers and then they went and bombed them out in game six in L.A. So I love the fact that this series is the great unknown. I'm looking forward to Saturday night. I'll be going live on Green Room recording at Ringer NBA show with Jake Kyle Man. So, reacted after the game. After the game. After the game Saturday night. That'll be fun.

I'll fire it up. I'll watch it. Heck yeah, Chris. Two things before we get out of here today. First, the Kauai Lettered story, which was advanced and we talked about the other day. You and I were texting last night, and I was telling you, in the NBA media, no one is ever going to quote him or give him credit. But Skip Bayless knows something. He's been on this.

He's been on this Kauai thing. And I think it is worthy of recognizing. that very early in this process. So if you just put the puzzle pieces together, I get it. There's a lot of people and there's probably a young audience right now that only knows Skip Baylis is the guy that hates LeBron and argues on TV. When I was coming up in the media, Skip Baylis was a massive columnist in huge cities when columnist was the biggest job that you could have.

Very few of them, it wasn't like TV is now, right? The only and the only newspaper guys you saw on TV were the sports reporters on Sunday morning. Like that wasn't, but newspaper writers, like you had an awareness, especially at the advent of the internet, there was a thing called sportspages.com that I used to go to every morning. And they would feature the biggest columnist in the country. Skip Baylis was always one of those guys. I mean, he came up as a real journalist, worked in Chicago, worked in Dallas, worked in California. and big cities. And so he has a journalism background,

even though people know him as a talking head that argues about sports now. So when he, and the same thing goes, interestingly enough for Stephen A. Smith, who has a very extensive journalistic background. When those guys say stuff that is newsy, I've always told people, they ain't say,

because of where they came from, they're not saying that stuff just on a whim. That's not just their opinions on something. They talk to somebody. And when he said at the very beginning of all of this, when everybody's like, could they get Kauai back? And he's like, the Kauai injury is much worse than anybody's letting on. He's going to have to have surgery.

He knew that. He was the first person. The first person who said it was not a torn ACL, but he said an ACL injury. First person who said it. And then. They bring it up yesterday after the, you know, it's reported that he got surgery. And Shannon Sharp even says to him, like, Skip, before Woj, before Shams, before everybody, you were telling us, whatever. And Skip proceeds to say, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's another bombshell, because his inner circle feels that he was misdiagnosed from the Clippers.

Like the idea was, it made it sound like there was a breach of trust where maybe they said, here's, what's going on with your knee maybe in the attempt to try to get him to play in the playoffs or whatever it may be and he thought it was worse and then when he got it checked out. Now there's the other side of it, which is the clipper side of it,

which is like he never talks to any of our medical personnel anyway. What are he talking about misdiagnosed? He gets his own stuff done all the time. But for whatever reason, I'm telling you, when Skip Bayless says something that Kauai's inner circle feels this kind of way, he ain't just making that up. That means he's talked to somebody within that.

And that to me is not that surprising. Anybody that's followed, if you put the mystery together here, Skip's a, was a massive Spurs fan, a massive Kauai fan, and it would not be out of the realm of possibility that somebody connected to Kauai

is a Skip Bayless fan and talks to him. Seriously, like if you've got a guy, that's the way it goes in the media, right? If there's somebody that rides for you, you on TV and is pumping you up and talking like guess what their family members, their friends, et cetera, they're going to like you. For sure. And it could be that or even somebody like so close to Kauai that they want they've like

chosen him to be the person who steers the conversation about Kauai. Like they want this out there. They want it out there. They want it out there. And obviously because of Skipp and the character that he is on TV, it's not like the NBA media takes him seriously and is. and is, like, it's not like he's a reported. You would never see Skip Bayless reports that, blah, blah, blah,

in the same way that you see so many of these other reporters. But I'm telling you, when he said there could be another bombshell and here's what they think, he ain't making that up. He's not, no. He has no reason to make that up. He heard that from somebody and whoever he heard that from is the same one that told him, yo, his knee is torn up. And he ain't coming back.

If Skip Aylis is right, are we in another Spurs-Kauai situation here where there's like a big disagreement on that? Like he might have bought in that $17.1 million home by the beach in March, but things can change between March and July. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. We'll see. We'll see what happens. I mean, I mean, look, all I know is I think it bears attention when the guy that clearly knew that,

dude's knee was messed up. We were all sitting there going, could they get Kauai back? Could they get Kauai back? Meanwhile, Skip Bail is on TV saying, you ain't get like, his knee is torn up. He's going to have to have surgery. And nobody paid any attention to it. But he said that. He did.

He went on TV and he said it. So he knew that. He knew that for a fact from somebody. Because you don't talk about what the inner circle thing. Who ever talks about what Kauai's inner circle feels? Nobody knows, but there's somebody in that like Skip Bayliss, probably because he's been so good to Kauai over the year. Yeah, he's always loved Kauai, yeah. He's always been a Kauai guy.

Partially because of his anti-Lebron stance. Partially. And also he was a spurs fan. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And then he kind of took Kauai's side on the spurs stuff. Yeah. Right, which was not all that popular.

It's going to be really interesting. I don't know, man. It just made me, again, that doesn't mean he's not going to resign with the clippers. It doesn't be. I'm just saying it bears notice that he's out. The same guy that told us the guy that knew his knee was torn is telling us now, keep an eye out for another bomb show. It's worth, at the least, it's worth keeping in mind.

Yes. That's all. Two guys I want to ask you about on this Friday because we are now, well, we're recording this on Thursday. So it's two weeks from the draft. Okay? It's two guys. The first one.

I want to ask you about the little guard that you've got 30th on your draft or on the mock draft, which is, I mean, I know it's going to be updated as of next week. Monday, I think we're updating it for what it's worth. Monday. Yeah. Okay. I. DeSoon Mu. Okay.

Right? Yeah. The reason I want to ask you about him is because I have read varying things about him and he fascinates me a great deal. You know, in a league now where everybody needs guards and Illinois took a massive leap. Now, they got caught against that awesome Loyola Chicago team, but they had a great season, a great season. And many times when a team has a great season, you look up and, you look up and, uh,

A couple years down the road, it's like, oh, yeah. Well, the reason they had a great season is because they had blank or they had these great players. And I know one of the stories was a couple of those kids had gone back to school, you know, that could have gone to the NBA a year ago. But what do you think about this kid? And kind of like, because you've gotten me fascinated on these back end of the first rounders too. And so the reason I wanted to start with him is because he's starting. 30th on that list. And he obviously was on a very good team and he's clearly a talent.

So with him, 6'4, hard-nosed, gritty defensive player, strong frame, you know, like, there's no question about his defense and what he can be on that end. The wonder is like, what will he be on the offensive end of the floor? He average 21 points as a junior for Illinois, as you mentioned. Low release point on his jump shot. doesn't do a heck of a lot off the dribble as a shooter yet, but he's gotten better every year. Not like an explosive athlete,

more of a below the rim finisher type of guy. And he still needs to make progress as a passer, like as a true point guard. So with him, like there's no question about the hustle and what he can be defensively. There's a lot to like there. And he could very well become a very good player.

It's just a matter of where do you value drafting a guard with some offensive questions compared to some of the other talent available. So it's really a matter of preference for some of these teams, but he very well could be somebody who contributes to a team early on in this career. I would love for a guy named Ayo to be awesome in the NBA. That is a great name. That would be great.

The other one that I do want to ask you about. And this is because of track record of school. You know, you and I talked a few days ago about you like, you like in that kid from Virginia. Yeah. And that he could go all manner of places. within the first round. Yeah, Tray Murphy.

I want to ask you about another kid, and here's why. So many times you can look and you could say these schools, they end up having a really good track record of guys that played for him or these coaches. And we talked about that with Virginia, that there's been a pretty good track record to these Tony Bennett guys now. Most recently, DeAndre Hunter really looked like he's, you know, if he takes a big leap next year, it's not going to shock anybody. And a lot of those guys have been good.

But the Villanova guys have been too, Kev. And that's why I want to ask you about this, Jeremiah Robinson Earl, because you can't just say, oh, yeah, everybody that's worn a Villanova uniform, it's a safe bet. But I will,

just for point of reference, obviously, you know, the Kyle Lowry thing is not applicable, even though he did play for Jay Wright. But, I mean, McKell Bridges, Josh Hart,

Dante DiVincenzo, Archie Diocano played for, the Bulls, Jalen Brunson, Eric Pascall, Sadiq Bay. I mean, this is a hell of a track record right now of at worst getting a very solid NBA player. And so I'm interested to hear about this kid because right now it seemed to be a pretty good bet to take a kid that wore a Villanova jersey. Yeah, I'm a big Robinson Earl fan compared to where I've seen him ranked elsewhere. I think with him six, seven, smart, high IQ, hustles, versatile on defense, unselfish on an offensive end of the floor, can use him as a spot-up shooter, as a screener, roller.

Like he seems like a plug and play type of guy. With him, you know, 20 years old, sophomore, it's just a matter of, again, like similar to what, what are you looking for in the draft? Are you looking to take a swing on a high upside guy? Or do you feel good about taking a guy who more like, projects as a role player. And with him, I really like Robinson Earl. I also really like Grant Williams out of Tennessee.

I'd compare those two guys and I still think Grant Williams has a strong chance to end up a very, very good NBA player for a long time. But these guys aren't always certainties early on in their career because with him still needs to improve his jump shot. He's very streaky. Like, that's a number one thing. He's got to prove that he can shoot threes. And he's not a great athlete.

And his average, above average. So with that in mind, those are two big knocks against him with two key areas with athleticism and with shooting ability. But I would bet on him to find success. I would bet on. Like so many of those guys that I'm talking about, though, Josh Hart, Jalen Brunson, Sadiq. These guys are dunking on people. You're right. You're right.

They're good basketball players. I would bet on him. He's a good basketball player. I bet on. Yeah, that's what I mean. And that's typically what you've gotten from Philadelphia. You've gotten good basketball players for sure. Those guys, I mean, Bay's,

Bay's got the most potential for sure. But I mean, maybe, I don't know, who would you say has got more potential? Bridges or Bay? Probably, I don't know if either's going to be an NBA all star one day, but I'd lean Bridges.

You would? You would? You would? But it's close. But they're damn good players. You know what I'm saying? And so here's another one, right? I just,

I just wonder if we're going to look up again and we're going to go, hey, you should have just taken the kid from Villanova. Like you knew he was good. Yep. Right? Like, we know he's, if you should help me, he's good at basketball. Right.

This is one thing we know. And we know that these other guys have been able to comport themselves well in the NBA, you know. All right. That draft thing's getting updated on Monday. On Monday, got a big update coming. Oh, I can't wait. I got a draft article on Friday morning. So check that on the ringer and the big board box draft update.

with more scouting reports and everything will be on Monday. So we'll have a lot more to talk about on Tuesday, Chris. Big, big changes? Big changes for the big board. Yeah, I got a lot of changes. Oh, really? Yeah. The Kevin O'Connor opinion has changed.

The one that went up in May, like, that was such like a, players in there in big clumps. I have them more, like, in slotted positions now where, like, they're there to stay. I feel this is going to be good for the Turkish guy. Could be. We'll see. Shengoon. Maybe. We'll see.

That big turkey. We'll see. What's his name? Al Perrin Shengoon. Al Perrin Shengoon. You like that name, don't you, Chris? Should it be number one on Kevin O'Connor's big board on Monday. Ahead of Kate Cunningham and Evan Moble.

I don't think so. You don't think so? No. I don't think so. You could really get a lot of clicks. I'm good. I don't aim for clicks. I aim for quality content.

All right. Boo, Boo, quality content. I got to take more pages out of skip Baylis's playbook, right? Yeah, quality content,

boo. Have some nuts. Put Shingoon one. You can be the only guy. I'm good. I'm good, Chris. Okay. All right.

Thank you everybody for listening another episode of the Misfrestrest. Thank you to Isaiah for producing us today. And Sasha didn't dump us. Did she, Kevin? I think it's just a couple of days off here from us. Hopefully back soon, you know, we'll see. I'm happy to have Isaiah today. Isaiah produced the Ringer NBA and university show during the regular season. Isaiah is terrific. And then, so obviously people are going to be listening to this on Friday,

Saturday night after game five. You are going to be on Green Room. So we will alert everybody. Go download that, the app, Green Room. And then you'll be able to click on it. And you and Jacob Man are going to be on there right after the game on Saturday night. We'll be on there right after Saturday night. And if you aren't able to, like, there's a capacity of like a thousand on the green room map for now. I think they're going to increase that at some point this year. But right now it's a thousand-ish. So if you're not able to get into it Saturday night or just don't want to Saturday night because you're doing other stuff, you're playing war zone.

Can I get some kind of, wait, can you give me like a VIP pass or something? I'm not sure. I wonder if they have that. I'll have to look into it. Give Verno a VIP pass. I need a VIP pass. But yeah, if you're not able to get in Saturday night, you'll be able to listen to it on the Ringer NBA show feed Sunday morning. Okay, perfect.

All right, Kevin, I will talk to you next week. Can't wait. We've got a great NBA finals.