The Mismatch - The Bucks Force a Game 7. Plus: The Sixers Blow a 26-Point Lead and Major Coaching Changes

Episode Date: June 18, 2021

Verno and KOC discuss Game 6 of the Bucks and Nets series and look forward to Game 7 (1:07), the Sixers blowing a 26 point lead to the Hawks (11:12) and Paul George stepping up for the Clippers (37:32). Then they get into the latest NBA news with Chris Paul potentially missing games (53:07), Rick Carlisle’s resignation (54:57), the Pelicans firing Stan Van Gundy (1:07:27) and the Wizards parting ways with Scott Brooks (1:16:47). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if the Len Bias story hosted by Jordan Ritter-Con is the ringer's latest narrative podcast. You can find new episodes every Wednesday on the Book of Basketball 2.0 feed. Here's a quick trailer. You've heard his name, Lynn Bias, 1980s phenom, second pick in the NBA draft. And then, cocaine, tragedy, one of the most shocking deaths in sports history. 35 years later, Bias' legacy is still making an impact. From Spotify and The Ringer Podcast Network, this is What If, the Lynn Bias story. I'm Jordan Ritter-Conn.

Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining meets he does every Friday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.A. Kevin O Blasarian, Kevin O'Lernerian, Kevin O'Lisarriam, Kevin O'Connor, Kavanaugh. Verdo! What's up? Well, we're recording this late on a Thursday night. We have just gotten done. watching the Milwaukee Bucks versus the Brooklyn Nets. And we are, in fact, going to get at minimum one game seven. Game seven. Game seven.

In this playoff round. 104 to 89, the Bucks are able to beat the Nets. 89 is a rather incredible number to be able to hold the Nets too. And that has kind of been commonplace in this series when the Bucks, though everybody focuses on their offense and Janus and what they may or may not be doing. You know, these games that they have been able to beat Brooklyn, they've been able to make them very uncomfortable, grind it down, get the game in the mud a little bit,

and really hold Brooklyn. You know, that's not a team comfortable playing when the score is going to be low. They are at their best when this is an open and free game. And the Bucks have done a. very good job defensively. And some of these wins, they got monster performances out of their two big guys, Middleton especially, but Janice went along with him and combined those two, had a combined 68 points and 27 rebounds. If you want to add in Holiday, you know, you had 21 and 8 to that, to those numbers. So those big three guys, really nothing else of significance from

anybody else offensively, nothing out of their bed. Two points from Bryn Forbes. Those two, I suppose, because he wanted to show out for his college coach, Tom Izzo, who was there in the front row. And then Janice's brother scored two points. But that was it. That constituted every point scored by the Bucks bench in a win, which is rather impressive. But now it's going to go back to Brooklyn. It's a game seven.

we saw kind of what Brooklyn would look like when they got the really good Durant game, not the otherworldly Durant game. And it does feel after watching Hardin these two games, Kiv, they're going to need otherworldly Durant. Yeah, they're going to need otherworldly Durant, or they're going to need Harden to get even better. You know, he was slightly better moving around today than he was on game. even though still like Doris Burke mentioned multiple times on the broadcast, that fast break

opportunity where he normally would have been go, go, go, go, go. And he started, then stopped, slow down, gave the ball up. You know, it's like little things like that take away from what make him James Hardin. But it's not just James Hardin. It's not just Kevin Durant going nuclear like he did in game five. They also need somebody like Joe Harris to start shooting the ball well, Chris. One for four again tonight. He was 25% over his last three games before this one, too.

He has lost his shot. A guy like him, if you can make him a shooting threat and get, you know, 15, 20 points out of him, that changes a lot for your fortunes in a game. So Brooklyn, they got to get Kevin Durant. Not great, but amazing. And they got to get some of these other guys to have some hot shooting nights, whether it's Joe Harris or Blake Griffin or whoever. But also, like, got to give credit to the bucks, too.

They've done a really nice job at forcing a guy like Joe Harris into some tough contested shots with guys all over them, not giving him a lot of open space. Milwaukee did a really great job in the defense events. And I really, especially PJ Tucker. Yeah. Oh, for sure. He was a beast. He was a beast.

And he just, he is so physical and he plays so hard. And you can tell Milwaukee does feel like one of those teams. And especially, you know, the Middleton stuff, it feels like they are so affected by that home crowd. Doesn't it? Like that when they get going, their crowd is great. It really is. And those guys, you know. know, it's almost like, typically when you see teams that are at this level, when you've gotten

to this far in the playoffs, you don't have to, you can play at maybe not peak performance, but you can play at a very, very high level without people cheering for you. But this team just seems so much better when they, you know, and especially some of their players, maybe it's just the positive affirmation that they get. They need that, right? Instead of people groaning when they make shot, people are going crazy when they make shots. It's just odd. Regardless of where the game is played, though, it's the decisions on the floor that influence whether that crowd is booing or cheering or silent.

Janus didn't take a three-pointer tonight. I believe he only had one or two mid-range jumpers. He was getting to the basket, playing aggressively, making smart decisions as a passer, even though it only resulted in three assists. Yannis was attacking the boards. I thought he had a sensational line on the offensive end of the floor. Him and Chris Middleton were just truly, I mean, a dynamic duo. Chris Middleton had his best game of the entire series. And this is what happens sometimes.

Chris Middleton, you know, he can be inconsistent. He can have some rough shooting nights. But when that dude is on, he can drop 38 points and make it look simple. Absolutely. And to your point about who's going to come along with Durant. We both admit he has to be otherworldly. which he was. But who's the guy that comes along?

So when they were able to get that game five win, it was Jeff Green, right? Well, Jeff Green turns around. He's got 35 minutes. He's got five points tonight. You know, it's like, who is, if Brooklyn is going to get it done, who's that guy? It seems very, very difficult to imagine it being James Harden. So is it Jeff Green? Is it Joe Harris?

Is it Blake Griffin? Is it even a more unlikely, like a Landry Shammit? Who is the guy that is going to give you something that you're not necessarily counting on every single night? Like, they're going to have that Jeff Green game five performance because, you know, Durant was so historically unbelievable in that game. They forget, like Jeff Green's numbers were free. for Jeff Green. I mean, like, look, we know that this is possible, too, that Jeff Green can play 35 minutes tonight, and he might get you five, he might get you 27. That's the Jeff Green

experience. That's what it's been for years. It's been that way for years. And so now, who's that guy? Is it in a game seven is, by that time, is hard and able to muster even more than he was able to give them tonight, you know, enough to be that second guy for, you know, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, for, and, Durant can't have no lie. I mean, it's, it's hard to imagine him having 30 and them winning, you know what I mean? Like, he's going to have to have 40 or 50 for them to be able to pull this off because, look, they got one of the great performances in NBA history and that thing went down to the wire. Yeah. Right.

So I mean, they, they need, I mean, look, there's the variable of Kyrie Irving. Could he return? We don't know. There's the variable of James Harden. Does he have an on day? Or like things are just working for him. It will be a game seven. I would imagine he will go more full throttle and risk some things because it's a game seven.

Then he did it in the game six. I just don't know if it's there to risk. He just looks so. I mean, he's playing on a bummed hamstring. He is. He is, but I, I mean, I mean, mentioned that play that Doris Burke detailed during the game where he got the ball with an easy transition opportunity. And he didn't push. He didn't push the pace off the dribble. He slowed

himself down early in the game to conserve his energy, not, you know, potentially risk things early on. And I agreed with her assessment of that. I'd be curious to see what he would say about that. But ultimately, it's a game seven, man. Like you got to go balls to the wall, put it all out there. And like I feel that way in every series right now. If you're Kyrie and you're able to play, you got to get out there. If you're Mike Conley, you know, in this Jazz Clipper series, we'll talk about them later. You got to get to get out there. You got to play.

You got to try to contribute to get your team to advance. And with this net series here, I still believe, you know, James Hardin can give more. Well, I'll tell you this. He might be able to, but this will be a, I mean, just an epic disappointment for the bucks. This is the moment you have just, even if though that game seven is going to be on the road, you have to take advantage of this. You have to take advantage of this. I don't know what he can give, but he's not James Harden.

No, he's not. He's not even close to James Harden. So you're playing against Kevin Durant, and that's the guy that, you know, you've got to be able to slow down, not completely, just enough because this is an absolute golden opportunity to go to the next round because in the games that we're about to get to, I mean, who knows who you're playing in the next round. I mean, it's not unfathomable that no matter who wins this series, that they are going to be the favorite in the next round.

Yeah, I'd be willing to bet that too. Kevin, last night, we'll get to both of the games. That first one, I, just the whole night of basketball was just absolutely positively shocking. And this was after, this was after a shocking day of news all day, which actually continued into today, which we're going to have to talk about all of that, too. So we have just had so much news go on over the last 48 hours. since we last spoke, and then these games. So the 76ers have a 26-point lead in the game. Now, just to speak to, and to not make this be a prisoner of the moment thing,

as you're watching that play out, and keep in mind they had just blown an 18-point lead in game five. So now you move to game six, and I even texted you before the game, and I was like, this feels like Doc just went into the game. that locker room and called them all a bunch of wassies and they're playing like they're going to murder somebody i mean embied is picking up text he's got this growl on his face he's just the laying waste to them in the first half of that it was it was just like we talked about exactly what we said he's gonna they stymied him he had the worst game ever he's four for 20 and then he turns around and it's just

I mean, he's just on hellfire against them. And then this lead grows and grows and grows. Next thing you know, it's 26. There's a lot of people, I guarantee, a huge percentage of the audience turned it off. Oh, yeah. There's better stuff to watch. There's better stuff to watch.

Yeah, there's a lot of options out there. You get Netflix, you get video games, TikTok, laying in bed, you know, whatever people are there is. A lot of things that were more entertaining than that. In the last 25 years, the 76, sixers with a 25 point lead had been 165 and oh. Okay. They also, in the last two games, have blown 18 and 26 point leads.

They are the only team in 25 years to blow back-to-back leads of those tight margins. That's something else. I mean, it truly was history, right? Like sometimes we could just get caught up in, what just happened and become prisoners at the moment or deal in grand hyperbole. There's no hyperbole big enough for this. This was honestly something you never see. And something that has not happened to the Sixers in 25 years and has not happened to any NPA team in 25 years. It is just the grandest embarrassment, the grandest disappointment imaginable. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,

I'm watching it play out, and I'm like, I can't believe this. I can't believe what I'm watching. And Joel Embed, for as great as he was in that first half, he now, in the second half of game five, worn out, man. Game five and game six, three of 21 with seven turnovers. My God. He's been falling off a cliff in those second halves.

in a later in games as they attack him and attack him fatigue begins to build it's as if i mean late in that fourth quarter he couldn't move on defense chris he couldn't move you know who else couldn't he was blowing right past ben simmons yeah i had a guy when i woke up this morning i had a guy that reached out to me he was very close with uh people with the hawks and he relayed to me that there was this feeling of confidence that comes over that team in these second halfs because those guys are tired. They're a load management team. They're a team that doesn't really practice.

And that's a team that is gassed. And it's hard for me to argue with that. And I don't know, you know, you know what's crazy, Kevin. it is very, very hard. Not when I got that this morning and... That was a Hawks guy, you said. Yes. And the opinion was, these guys, these guys are tired.

Like, we see it. Interesting. They're tired. And they do see it that they're tired. Because you know what immediately that made me think of? And this is going to be crazy. It immediately made me think of last year's Clippers. Oh.

Which was who? Yeah. Doc. Interesting. Another Doc team. Now, let me pair this up. Okay? Another Doc team.

So let me pair this up. And then I read this. This was on CBS Sports Headquarters. Over the last two seasons, Doc Rivers coach teams are 11 and 5 when getting a lead of at least 16 points in the postseason. The rest of the NBA is 76 and 3. Really? Oh, my God.

Can you say that again? I need to hear it again. If I need to hear again, like the listeners, I feel like I need to make sure I heard that right. In the last two seasons, Doc Rivers coach teams are 11 and 5 when they have gotten a lead of 16 or more. The rest of the NBA combined is 70. and three.

That's insane. So, no, no, no. Now, now, think about that. You want to have the moment. You want to have the movie moment? I sat there when I, when, not even thinking about the correlations. When I read that, I thought of last year's Clippers

and how they'd beat the shit out of somebody. And then they'd lose. And you'd be like, what? They were winning by 20. Like, how are they losing? How do they lose? Remember this epic collapse against Denver? You go back and look, they have big leads in these games.

And the same things happen twice in a row against Atlanta with this Philly team. And then I read this stat. And I'm like, okay, I just, I felt that way. But like, I didn't have it even up. I didn't, I hadn't gone and looked it up. But that's an outrageous. outrageous, that your win percentage? So everybody else won 96% of those games.

Yes. The Clippers won only 69%. Well, no, no, Clippers and Sixers. Clippers and Sixers. It's a dog Rivers coach teams. Correct. Yeah. So the Doc Rivers coach team 69%, which is not nice.

Every other team, 96%. That's remarkable. That's remarkable. And this is Doc Rivers who, you know, he coached a magic team that blew a three to one lead to the Pistons. He coached Celtics teams that blew three, two, leads to the magic and the Lakers in the heat. He coached Clippers teams that blew 3-1 leads to the rockets and the nuggets. He's coached six teams that have blown 3-1 or 3-2 series leads. He now has

this crazy stat that you just detailed about blown leads and wins in individual games. That is remarkable, Chris. It really is. That blows my mind. And yet it's not surprising because of the series stat. Well, the other thing is if you read the Philly writers, it's like that these bench unit, these bench units with Tobias Harris is the only starter. I mean, they've gotten mauled. Like they can't score.

And he, like, they're on his ass about stubbornly sticking with this wildly indefective combo that has, uh, you know, that has been a problem for them throughout this post. And it's been a problem for him for years as a coach.

When I, you know, back in the day when Doc Rivers was coaching the Celtics, they used to piss me off in the playoffs when he'd roll. out those bench mob lineups. Sometimes when the bench was amazing, it would be good, but you don't always have an amazing bench. And if you continue doing that when you have an average bench or below average bench, maybe it's time to make a change. And, you know, I thought Jonathan Charks earlier on Thursday, me, him and Bill Simmons, and then Ryan Rusillo joined. We did a live show on Spotify Green Room,

their new live audio app, but a lot of fun. Like, we had like a thousand people in there, I guess is max amount of people. Great. And that it was a fun time. Really good. We should do one sometime, Chris. And anyway, so Charks brought up, he's like, why are we doing this, you know, bench plus Tobias Harris lineup? Why not do bench plus Ben Simmons and possibly have Seth Curry in there too? Because if you do that, you know, I brought up to him. It's like, you got to get creative here.

You have to get creative. And like, I've hammered this for years, years using Ben Simmons and a Draymond Green style role as a screener on the ball for a guy who can shoot off the drill. like a Seth Curry and have a roll to the rim and that's how you get value out of Ben Simmons because he can throw down lob dunks. Yeah, but you can catch the ball. You can catch the ball in a short roll, Chris. He can pick apart defenses with a pass, but you've got to do something a little bit

different than what you've done before. They did try it last night for a couple of possessions. Yep, but if you screen cap it, Kevin, here's what happened. They put Ben up there at the top. He set the screen. There wasn't a hawk past the free throw. Oh, yeah. They don't give a damn.

They say go ahead. Set the screen. We don't care. Who is the pick and roll ball handler on that, though? I don't think it was Seth Curry, if I remember correctly. I'm sure. Hold on. Somebody actually sent me the screen cap this morning.

So let me go back in my text messages real quick. And I'm going to find who the player is at the top. It was Seth Curry in that clip. It was Trey going around the Ben Simmons screen. That's a weird situation there, though, because you have M. Bid up there. The spacing's really bad on that player talking about. The spacing's always bad. I know.

Everything they do. It is. But that's the thing. Like when Embedd is off the floor, you have to find a way to maximize value out of Ben Simmons. You have to find a way because what we're finding out here, Juell Embed, he was an MVP candidate for a reason. He is one of the game's best players for a reason. But he is not Tim Duncan. He's not Dirk.

Not this guy who's durable. and always there. You can't always rely on Joel and Bede to give you peak Joe L&Bee performance. So with that said, Chris, he needs somebody by his side who can do that. With Ben Simmons, some of it's his own limitations, his own stubbornness, his unwillingness to switch hands despite having a former shooting coach who tried to have him do it, despite having his former teammate JJ Redick suggests that he should do it, despite the fact that every Sixers fan in the world knows he shoots to the wrong hand. Part of it's stubbornness. Part of it is also a role in situation. He hasn't had a guard who can draw defenders away from the paint to your point

in that clip we're talking about. And also, he hasn't had a coach that runs a lot of pick and roll. Brown didn't run much of it, and Doc Rivers isn't doing a lot of it with him. My point is here is, you got to find a way to get value out of him. So try something a little bit different more frequently.

Here's the problem. Here's a problem when it gets to this point, though, Kev. If he can't shoot and he can't make free throws, now I'm just filing you. Go ahead. He's not touching the ball as a screener. He's rolling down the lane. But drive, I'm going to file you every time.

Now, how are you scoring? You know what I mean? He wouldn't take four field goals last night. It's not always about when you said a screen. It's not always about putting it in the position. Bro. I know. You can't take four shots.

Chris, when you set a screen and roll to the rim, you don't always receive the ball. That's not the, like, screening and rolling is sometimes about just the gravity causing defenders to suck into the paint to open up a shooter away from the ball. But they've got one. They've got one shooter, Kevin. Yeah, but they have guys who can hit shots. Who?

I mean, like, Tobias Harris can hit shots. Oh, God. I wish you would. Seth Curry can hit shots off the dribble. Like, they have to do it more. And I think it's a shame that we haven't seen it all these years. They do need to. I really do.

They need some more. It's actually a shame. They need some more shooters. They got a, like, the Danny Green thing hurts just in terms of what you were talking about the gravity. Right. People talk about Draymond Green is a Hall of Famer, Chris, because of what he brings on offense because he's paired with Stefan

Curry. their their skills complement each other perfectly yeah draymond green is a zero as a shooter an absolute zero you also play center though you know that's what i'm saying like charx's point earlier was have been simmons with the bench unit instead of dwight howard have him play the five and use this dynamic center who can run your offense for you around being offensive hub around the elbows who can set screens and roll to the rim how they're not doing that i don't get it it baffles my mind i i have when waiting for it for years and I've just about given up on ever seeing it. Well, and you know what?

There is a, the huge story, and I hate this for Hawks fans, because the huge story is the 76ers collapse, but the collapse always has two sides. Yeah. And the heart that the frigging Hawks show, when you, I mean, when you're down 26 and you just keep, like, they always say one possession at a time, keep chipping away, keep chipping away. and Nate McMillan has got those guys believing and playing it out, even when they've gotten in these big deficits, they play it out, right? Because 26, that can easily, you know, just turn to 36 and that 46,

and then you look up at the end, and you've just gotten stumped, and guys just go, this wasn't our night. You know what I mean? They made everything. Embedd came out, you know, going crazy, he made his first, you know, 10 of 11 shots, So it's just not our night, but we'll get them back when we go back to Atlanta. And, you know, not necessarily pack it in, but you know the circumstances dire and you might play that way. Or you get crazy and everybody starts trying to do it themselves and trying to hit the 10-point shots.

And then it really gets worse for you. This team just keeps doing what they do. They got guys that have this crazy confidence. You know, this was. Bogdanovich. Just a huge Lou Williams. A huge Lou Williams moment. It was.

It's not just Trey. It's Bogdanovich in the starting lineup. Lou Williams off the bench. They have a bunch of guys who have no conscience, aren't afraid to take big shots. And Lou Williams has been playoff disaster, Lou Williams, so many times over the years. Not the other night.

No. He's outrageously great. and they just keep on plugging away, plug it away, plug it away. Next thing you know, they end up, you know, winning that game. And now you've got a team in Philly, you know, maybe it's going to be back against the wall. Okay, now we're really, we're going to play it out. You play it like a game seven because it's got to be a game seven. So you only play seven or eight guys.

You're not running out even full bench units. You know, that thing, that rotation gets tight. and guys just have to play huge minutes but the thing is, can they hold up for huge minutes? Because he even said last night he put them back in

with 10 minutes left not wanting to. He did not want to put the starting unit back in with 10 minutes left, but he was forced to. Like that's what Doc said. I had to. And then of course people asked him

about the Ben Simmons 4 for 14 from the free three. throw line and he was like, they asked him like, did you feel like you had to pull him because of the free throw situation? And he was like, I mean, I mean, if you're doc, that's what that's what being a nice guy generally is like even becomes very, very difficult. Like, bro, what do you think? Yes, I had to take him out because he's four for 14 for the free throw line. And when we dribble the ball past half cord, they run to him and start slapping his arms so that he had to. to go take more free throws.

If he can hit them, I'll play him. But like, this can't be. You can't do hackap, man, and us just be, you know, an innocent bystander to our demise. And that was kind of the situation. And so you've got a huge collapse out of him at the free throw line, and then you've got a huge collapse out of MBE. I really felt like there was a lot more slander about Simmons

and the 4 for 14 for the free throw line and only taking four field goals and all that crap, then there was about Mbid. And I think it was... Why shouldn't there be? It's Mbid's hurt. I know, because he was three for 21

in the last two second half. He's playing through a partially torn meniscus. I understand. He's even playing as a testament to his attitude and his toughness. I understand. And Bid is one of the toughest players in the whole league.

But he's three for 21 in the second half in these games. It happens. You're hurt. No, I understand. But that's, That's why this is going the way it is going in the second half. It's all on Ben Simmons in that sense. If you're pointing, if you're pointing blame at one of the two stars,

like it's 100 out of 100 fingers should be pointing at Ben Simmons. Like, Embedith is hurt. I can't fault him at all. It's unfortunate. The durability is a problem for him. It's unfortunate. The injuries have been part of his story. But that's the way it is.

Some guys don't stay healthy. Ben Simmons, you know, it's partially system. It's partially fit. It's partially his own choices. And it's just the fact that right now, I don't even think it's just the hand in this thing. I think so much of it is happening between the years. He looks spooked at the line.

He looks scared. He looks so terrified right he's up there at the line. Like he oftentimes, like you can almost read it with Ben Simmons, not to be like body language doctor, like with Bill Simmons sometimes, but you, sometimes he has fire in his eyes. You can see a killer in Ben Simmons. When he's at a free throw line, he looks like a toddler. Like, it's sad to watch sometimes, like in that other game. And for him, I hope, like, he is going to commit and do everything possible this off season to prevent this from being an issue in the future.

Because this can't happen. All right. Like, this can never happen. This is going to be a very, very strange thing for me to interject here. And I'm only going to do a one-minute thing on this. Look, I said this about Janus. I did this whole bit on my local show last week about Janus and about how there's this old story. there's actually Malcolm Gladwell did this podcast.

I knew you were going to say this. I knew it. Right. And about how Will Chamberlain changed for one season, shot free throws the best he ever shot in his life. And then I think it was 61. And then he ended up going back because he didn't, he didn't want to be the big guy shooting. They're only the way it looked.

I'm telling you this. It is the, 2021 is the absolute perfect time in the history of history to do this. Somebody can pull this. off. And if it's a Janus or a Ben Simmons or whatever, I really believe this is what will happen. If somebody does it and is effective at doing it, okay? And they're effective at doing it. The narrative will not be, look at this grown Hulk that's got to shoot the ball underhand like a weenie. The narrative will be, why are all these other bums that can't hit free throws

not doing it his way? And it will, it's going to switch because there's so much. any of these guys that are outstanding players, that the free throw line is now this adventure and it's killing them and it's costing them games that all it's going to take is one guy that decides I don't have the proper touch. You know, obviously people have been trying to get them to do it this way for so long. It's going to happen, Kevin. Mark my words, it's going to happen. Somebody's going to do it. And somebody's going to set their ego aside. And also, I just think we're in a spot right now, especially within the culture, that people aren't going to trash somebody or make fun of somebody in the same way that they would have for the last 20 years.

There was a player drafted back in, I think, 2016 Onuka. Yeah, he wasn't good enough. He wasn't good enough. Exactly. But he did, he did do it, just wasn't good enough. And I think to your point, Chris, there still would be a lot of people who would make fun of a player who does that. That's just the way it is, you know.

But to your point, I would be willing to bet that the far majority with the way the internet is and it's very analytical would be like, hey, why not try this DeAndre Jordan? Why not try this? What if Yonis started making 10 out of every 13 each shot? Here's, yeah, it would be, it'd be nuts. It'd be nuts. He would be an innovator. That's the thing. He would be an innovator. And he's the kind of guy that could pull it off because he would be, he's got enough ego.

you know, he's got enough swag about him where he would go, look, I'm trying to help my team win the most. That's all it is, dude. That's all it's about is winning. And he's got the confidence. He's like, I was hurting my team shooting it that way. So I'm willing to try something new in order to help my team because what I care about is winning. And then everybody would be following suit. They'd be like, look at this guy.

He's trying something new. He's doing that. Thank you, Chris. That's all it's about. That's all it's a. about like if you are willing to take a risk and maybe even embarrass yourself a little bit along the way all in the name of trying to maximize your abilities as a player therefore to impact your team's ability to win games and compete for championships you have my admiration

you do regardless of it's doing granny shots you know underhand free throws or whether it's changing tweaking your jumper form or whatever it is you have the utmost respect for me personally and I know a lot of other people know the same way what is more embarrassing Shooting four for 14 in the freaking game six? What's it more embarrassing? Exactly. And by the way, with Ben Simmons, I don't think he needs to go underhand hair necessarily. Chris, when he uses his right hand or his left hand on shots, he uses his right hand over 85% of the time.

Very rarely do you see left-handed layups from Ben Simmons or lefty jumpers for Ben Simmons or lefty float on The hook shots, what you see is Ben Simmons getting into a right hook from the post. A right-handed layup. A right-handed putback. A right-handed open-floor dunk. A right-handed hook shot. A right-handed runner, floater, everything. Because he's a right-y.

He said so himself back in 2016. I think he has pretty solid touch with his right hand. I'd love to see the switch happen. I really would. I don't know if it would make him a good shooter. I don't think it would make him a great shooter. I think he would be a better shooter. You think we get a game seven?

I do. Yeah, I do. I do. I think we get a game seven. I'd be surprised if we don't get a game seven. I think Doc just trims that rotation. You've got, it trims that rotation. To how much? Who does he cut? Does he cut Dwight Howard? What do you? Yes. I mean, unless he has to get by a couple of minutes. I'm talking about that whole maxy, shake Milton. Okay. So does he cut Jake Millen? Shake Milton? Shake Millen had a big game before. I mean, he may be one of the guys that gives you, again, if you're playing seven or eight,

I'm saying he's not playing these five, four, four and five man bench units. Sure. Yeah. It's not ending up with that. You're still playing Mette Stuyall, right, despite his struggles down the stretch. 100%. But you're just, you're just interjecting three of these guys, right? Maybe four, but just a couple minutes here, a couple minutes there to give our guys a break.

Yeah. Right. But in terms of like these bench units and guys playing like over 10 minutes each, like, no, that will not have. The tough part is, though, Chris, like, Those guys might get gassed out And your center It's got a torn minuscus Exactly how much can you play in deed

I don't know man That's why I think it circles back to the point From earlier You have to find a way to get Ben Simmons going It's simple like you have to get him going If he has to play 45 minutes And Embed like Embed Might actually be better

Playing him 32 minutes than 40 minutes There's a possibility It's really hard They are Atlanta might do it Dude like Tray Young Trey Young has taken a leap in my eyes in the sense that the biggest question with him in the playoffs was the size. And we saw at times that first when Philly put, I mean, East Thival and Ben Simmons on him, he was dribbling into like six arms.

Like Joel Embed was in the area. Simmons is all over him. Help defenders there and he couldn't handle it. But I feel like watching Trey, he's operating with a greater feel. He's adjusting on the fly. It's as if like many players do. do they watch film and try to find weaknesses. Like Ben Simmons is not a perfect defender.

There's no such thing as a perfect defender. And he's looking for those moments to strike. And I think it ties into the point you mentioned earlier, Chris. They sense that Philly gets more tired in the second half. And there may be like legitimate situations in which Trey knows to attack. Middle of like a stretch, a stint on the floor for Ben Simmons might be an ideal time. Whatever it might be, a certain position that he stands in his stance on the defensive end. And those things, tendencies players watch for an offense too, right?

And I think Trey Young has done that. I just sense a greater feel against this when it wasn't looking good early on. The late game last night was maybe equally as shocking because Paul George is by himself as the star, the guy, with Kauai Leonard being announced yesterday morning that he was going to be out for that game. And so it looked like, oh, here's another one of the. injuries are about to alter everything. The jazz were still going to be without Mike Conley, but it was going to be Paul George and the rest of the clippers

having to go in and win a game where they were going to be a significant underdog. He was absolutely awesome. And it is what, I had this moment where there's always these guys throughout sports that are insanely talented, but they are branded as the guy that doesn't get it done in the big moments, right? And then we beat them up, beat them up, beat them up, beat them up, beat them up, beat them up. That's what they wear. They're the guy that can't come through in the big moments until they do. And what you learn for so long is, yeah, there's some guys that are intensely talented.

that it never happens for them, but so many that were great, whether it was in golf, it was Phil Mickelson, in baseball is Alex Rodriguez, in football, there's been a ton of them, right? There's John Elway, there was Peyton Manning. There was Andy Reid, hell, even last year, right? In hockey, it was Alex Ovechkin, right? He's this great, great player, but he doesn't get it done in the playoffs. And then next thing you know, he ends up holding up a Stanley Cup eventually. And Paul George, you know, there's that thing where it's like everybody's going, bro, you can't have Paul George as your best player in this kind of high leverage game trying to go win that game against Utah, like this massive swing game against Utah going back on their home floor.

And he is without Kauai Leonard. he is the best player on the floor by a wide, wide margin, puts the team on his back. I mean, that was a huge moment for Paul George and his, you know, whatever, when I do the corny legacy thing or whatever. But honestly, just the perception of Paul George, right? You are, you're the guy that can't be counted on to get it done in the biggest moments until you get it done in the biggest moments. and it wasn't the biggest moment,

but that was pretty damn big, Kiff. You know, earlier in his career, he did have that reputation. Yeah. And then things flipped. Yep. Could this be the beginning of him flipping that back? Because that was certainly an extraordinary performance.

I thought it was funny after the game. Because he was so great, 37 points on 22 shots. This is either after the game in the next day. Ty Lou was asked, do you have a plan if they start doubling or trapping trying to get the ball out of his hands. And he's like, I hope they do. He trusts George the passer as well because it wasn't just his scoring that night.

That was impressive. He did make some nice passes too. Paul George played a complete game. It was a dominant performance. And for the Utah Jazz here, they're having trouble on both ends of the floor for different reasons. But on defense, with the five-out offense, with Marcus Morris and Nicholas Batum, spacing the floor, it pulls. Coles Gobert are out of positions where he can be an impactful player around the rim, and the

Clippers are doing a much better job at getting there. That's not an indictment about Gobert. It is on the offensive end, though, and that's what I'm getting at, because you can't blame Gobert on defense. That's just the way you have to play. On offense, well, you're allowing them to play small because of his inability to defeat them, to use his size to his advantage. Rudy Gobert has no post moves. He is not a threat off the bounce. He is a solid passer. He is a solid pass, not a great passer when he receives the ball in the short role. Gobert's inability to defeat Marcus Morris and Nicholas Batum inside the paint is why the clippers can stay small and be as impactful as they are on offense.

It works both ways. So unless the jazz can find a way to punish the clippers for being small to force them to bring Zubots back onto the floor, it's got to be really hard for them to play defense like the way they did during the regular season. And if you do that, like, it's going to hurt you on offense too, man. Let them keep playing small. It's a tough dilemma. Tyloo.

It takes a while to figure this stuff out. But he does. He does. He landed on this small lineup. And next thing you know, Terrence Man's, you know, because of Kauai being out, now he's playing 25 minutes for you with all this energy and fight. You know, Pat Beverly. gave him some minutes off the bench, and, you know, they're playing Zubots,

less than 10 minutes in that game. Like, it is that, that whole Statsmuse thing about him, 18 minutes or more, they never have won. If you just looked at that one stat and you said, okay, they haven't won these playoffs, any playoff games that Zubot has played 18 or more minutes. And yet, here they are with a chance to move to the Western Conference, finals without, and that's despite losing these games when he has played real minutes. And you sit back and you go, but what if they never did that?

It is hard to argue when they've been just the small ball clippers. And they've played, you know, they've been playing man and they've been playing Kinnard and they've been playing Baton. That when they've been the small ball clippers, like I really don't know how many games they would have lost in these playoffs. And I feel like we would be thinking about them differently because I'll be damned. They just became the small ball clippers

and won without frigging Kawhi Leonard. Yeah. In the game like, what? I mean, because it helps them so much on both ends of the floor. And I mean, this is jumping ahead. I don't want to spend too much time on it. But if they win the series and they face the suns, it's going to be the same thing in the sense that DeAndre Atenh

is going to have to make them pay a little bit inside or through getting to the basket from by, Devin Booker or Chris Paul if he's able to play. So it's going to be the same thing next round with Aiton's importance. Because if you pull him away from the paint, it doesn't allow Phoenix to defend the way they wanted to. It doesn't allow anybody to defend they want to. So we're seeing here the importance of being able to make smaller teams pay.

By the way, didn't the Lakers do that last year to the Rockets? 80 was able to do that when Houston went small and they went 80 at the 5. It's very important to have that ability. I wonder if the jazz can. You know what I mean? I wonder that too, to be honest with your question. No, I mean, I wonder if they can just decide, all right, we can't do the big thing. We can't.

And they go small, you're saying. So they don't play Gober as much is what you're suggesting. That's right. I mean, and they just say, I don't know, man. And they just say, we're going to go five wide too because we can't match up the other way. But you're already shorthanded, though. Like you're already playing baseball. I know, six guys plus like a mixture of Nying, a little bit of favors, you know,

for like five, six minutes here and there. I, like, unless Conley can come back, I don't think you can, I don't think you can even consider. Well, this has got things. They have to get my Conley, dude. Look, this has gotten things flipped on them, though, Kev. I mean, they're, they're one series when these last several years was against the Grizzlies who got in as a play-in team.

You know, if they lose this series, it is. going to say something when you look back and you go, all right, this is great during the regular season. But when teams can match up and they can really play small against us, is this sustainable to be able to win four out of seven games against a really good team? Because you saw it last year where Jamal Murray just went absolutely nuts. And if you watch back, even if you watch back that 50-point game. Yokech is setting high screens for Murray. He comes around, you know, Gobert's not going to come all the way out, and Murray's just having a field day, and he's averaging a million points. And so is this something when you don't, when you're, if your only series win playing this way is against

a Grizzlies team who was the youngest team to make the playoffs in 10 years, I mean, it is something you got to think about, right? Like, is this, is this a recipe that when somebody prepares for us or can you alter this and just say it's not like this this just is what it is when you've got go bear and he is going to be a massive advantage but there's in the time that he's not and he very clearly is not an advantage for them right now on offense especially they're playing baton 42 minutes yeah shout out to nick baton dude you could have gotten on baton playing 42 minutes in a playoff game but hey shout out i know like that's what i'm saying like come couple years ago.

Oh my God. Imagine when Nick Petun is making $27 million and nobody wants him. Unbelievable. And he stinks. Do you know? He'd be playing 40 plus minutes. Do you know? About to make the Western Conference finals.

Do you know there was a guy with Charlotte. All right? He was with the traveling party and was talking to be, I'm not going to sell anybody out. It was talking to be, we were just having a conversation before the game. is whatever it was, probably three, four years ago. Okay. And he says to me, he goes, you think, you think they'd do Baton for Parsons? And I was like, bro. I was like, you, like, Taylor Parsons, like, he can't play. And he goes, I don't think you understand. And he's like, we would do that heartbeat. And I was like, what? I'm like, that's how low, because like that Baton contract was

thought of as just this, you know, like this, like this anchor around their neck, right? Like in the same way. And the thought was, his goes a year longer. That's what the guy told me. He goes, his goes out another year. That's why they do that deal. And I'm like, this is insane. You're just talking about, you know, trading two guys that signed the worst contracts ever

for each other. Like they made me they're maybe they're maybe these are the only two guys that could be traded for each other. But that's where that's where it was with Nick Batu. Like seriously. Like, hey. And now he's a superb role player. He's a 42 minute player in the playoffs. Unreal.

On a team that's one game away from a Western Conference finals appearance. It's crazy. And he's playing center. Everything about it is crazy. I got a Reggie Jackson stat for you, Chris. Let me hear it. So this season, out of players that have used an isolation on offense, 100 times, including the regular season and the playoffs,

Reggie Jackson ranks first in efficiency, scoring 1.2 points per chance. So the clipper score 1.2 points per chance when Reggie Jackson isolates. Second place is Kevin Durant. Third place is Stefan Curry. Fourth place is Damien Lower, James Harder, and Kyrie Irving, Zion Williamson, Zach Levine. like these are the players that Reggie Jackson ranks above.

Look, look at Bobby Smurder. Bobby Smurder himself. I always, hey, for like 10 years, I had a higher opinion of Reggie Jackson that I ever should have. And it's so funny, it's coming back around because when he was on his rookie contract, there was a playoff game that I was at where Kevin Durant did virtually nothing. Russell Westbrook did virtually nothing.

and Reggie Jackson scored like 33 or 34 points on the road in a playoff game. And just like, I mean, I watched it. And I think it was game four of a series. I mean, probably it flipped the series. And it was like, I just watched a game where it was Reggie Jackson at Russell Westbrook at Kevin Durant. And the other two didn't do that much. And this guy just looked like the biggest superstar on the floor.

And so from that point on, I always like kind of have. had a higher opinion of Reggie Jackson because I witnessed him have this just no one can stop me playoff game. And obviously his career did not have the trajectory of a guy that does that. And he was in witness protection

in Detroit for some amount of time. But, I mean, look, the numbers of the numbers, Kev. He's a better score than Kevin Durant. I knew it. It's a much smaller sample. Reggie Jackson's 10090

Harden along 615 just to put those extremes into a perspective but hey he has looks really good in that role though in the postseason He has some off nights But when he's on he's able to hit some of those tough contested jumpers

He's improved so much the last two years As a shooter He used to be a bad shooter He is now a good shooter legitimately And he also had a lot of talent The teammates around him to pass the ball to He would often be sharing the floor with Paul George or Kauai Leonard.

Shout out to him as well, getting better over the years. Well, look, it's so odd the way this thing is flipped in that particular series because if they, I told you at the very beginning, I thought they're going to need Conley in order to win this thing. You know, at some point you've got to just stop holding on to hope that you're going to get Conley. And especially it's been instructive to watch Harden, who is giving it a go before he's ready to give it a go. and you see you get this very watered down version. And so you're not going to get the full Mike. He does help, though.

Hardin does help. Yes, no, he does help. Another guy can bring the ball up the floor. He's been solid defensively in certain situations. At this point, fair is fair. If I say I lose Conley, you lose Kawhi. You take that deal 100 times out of 100. And so it is what it is.

Like this is a lot like the bucks thing, bro, you got to win. like the same with the jazz if they're not going to have Kawhi Leonard you can't lose this you can't lose you cannot lose this if they don't have Kawhi Leonard like you have got to go in there

win game 6 and then you've got to go back home and you've got to win game 7 or else this is just a disappointment of just epic epic proportions seriously you can be losing to the Paul George Reggie Jackson Clippers

that is a disgrace you know and Quinn would have to watch out you know what I mean yes Quinn Quinn's a good coach man so was Rick Carlisle Kevin yeah I mean so is he hadn't been out of the first round of 10 years I mean and Quinn it's going to be what it's going to be a long time since they've been out of the first round or I mean they got out of the first round this year but it was against the grizzlies but I mean the other years they've been getting bouncing the first round speaking about Rick Carlisle oh yeah we're going to get to it let's cover the Chris Paul thing real quick first because that's whoever the Utah and Clips winner is going to feed into.

Really no update on that today. Have you heard anything? I believe somebody reported earlier. It might have been Shams or Woj who said there is optimism that if anything, he might miss one game. Oh, depending on the timing. So I don't know.

We'll find out more. But that was stated earlier today. Okay. All right. Well, then that's a lot better than the he's in jeopardy of the Western Conference finals. If you say he's in jeopardy of missing game one, it's like, okay, it's not that big of a deal, right? Yeah, for sure. You got to win four.

Yep. So, I mean, they could lose a first game with or without Chris Ball. That's not inconceivable. For what it's worth, that was from Wojj. Okay. So Woj had that earlier on Thursday. Okay, good. Well, because that was a, that was a, just like one of those stories that as soon as you see it come across the ticker, you're like,

my God. This snake bit dude, now it might have been his own fault, right? He might have put himself in a position, whatever, uh, to, you know, to not be adhering to whatever their protocols are at this given moment. Um, but he has been in so many situations where he's been right there with a chance to achieve destiny and then it have, have it be ripped away for one reason or the other. And this one might have been, certainly this is different than injury, but it would have been just horrendous to not get to see him in the Western Conference finals. I mean, I hope he's able to get back. And Woj did say in that same report, it would be potentially no games missed if Clippers Jazz goes to a game seven. So that was from Woj. So it's very possible. We do see a Chris Paul in a

game one. Okay. We have so much coaching news. All right, let's do the Carlisle thing first. All right. So Rick Carlisle, this was an odd way to do it because he didn't wait for the, he didn't wait for the Mavs to like put out so kind of release. He sent a iPhone notes quote to Andrew Horsonowski, you know, thanking everybody for the 13 years and he loves Dallas and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now this is all coming off these a couple of these few articles from the athletic that have been written by Tim Cato, and I believe Sam Amick helped him with them. First it started with like this. Tim and Sam did those. Those were really well done.

The inner turmoil of the Dallas Mavericks and Heralob Volgaris who had been hired there in their analytics department. It really came off as kind of a hit piece on him. Like whoever, whoever were the sources on there were not huge fans of him by Eddie Beads because there wasn't exactly any kind of, but here's the good side, right? It was all like, okay, here's the problem, here's this stats guy, the owners now, he's got the owner's ear now. He's kind of involved in stuff. It's muddling stuff up with the front office and Donnie Nelson and the like.

And so now that feels like a, okay, here's this article that comes out detailing all this. To me, just from the outside, I don't know anything about this situation. I would just say from my experience, that felt to me like either these guys have gone to Mark Cuban and have issued their complaints about this. They don't like, you know, the way this has gone with this guy. And Mark Cubans told them, yeah, whatever. Like, Bob's my guy and get on with it. You know, like what you're, you're being sensitive or whatever else. or we're just trying to be the best we could be, whatever.

They don't feel listened to. Or they're scared to talk to the owner about it, so they give the story to the media. And then now it's got to be dealt with, which Mark Cuban tried to deal with by just going publicly and saying this is bullshit, which obviously it's not bullshit. And then Donnie Nelson's gone. Then Mark Carlisle's gone days later.

And now these guys are all gone. And who knows what happens with Bob Vargas, whether he'll remain with the team or not. But great, great reporting on this. And one of the fascinating ones on the whole re-up today, and this is before the Carlisle stuff, I believe. But there was the story about the Donnie Nelson and the front office and Cuban blowing all these guys out. There was part of it that talked about how despite what Cuban says or whatever, that there are other guys within the league that sit there and they go, I don't know who's running the show.

I don't know who I need to be talking to. And I've been through this, Kevin, with the team I covered. Look, I covered the Witch Brooks situation. That's how that kind of stuff happens, right? And obviously, the next year, Chris Wallace wasn't in Memphis. Ernie Grunfeld wasn't in Washington. All those people that were involved in that night, you know, for the most part, a lot of them are not with their teams anymore.

And, you know, you probably got, and there was always the weird arranged marriage with Chris Wallace and John Hollinger. And then they brought in Zach Klym to be assistant GM. And it just leads to all of this confusion sometimes. And now different guys are talking to different guys and you're trying to get this deal done and things get lost in the shuffle and whatever. And so I can see that that this, you know, who's got the power? Who's the one that's got the owner's ear? you really have to, you have to scrap that and get organizational alignment. And you have seen the Memphis front office been praised in a great, great deal for their

draft picks and everything else because they just scrapped it and they just decided, all right, Zach Kleiman is the guy. That's the end of that. Right. He has these guys that work with him that are side by side with him. But anything that is dealing basketball, that's who you talk to. That's the guy. He's the one making the decisions.

That's the end of that. And those are the best organizations. And Mark Cuban, this can't happen with these articles because I really feel like if it weren't for these articles, nothing would have happened. I'm not kidding. Because this guy's not like a regular old owner. This guy's on Shark Tank. This guy's like legit, like famous, famous.

I wouldn't say this would have happened without the article. Maybe so. But a guy like that. This has been brewing. Like it's legitimately been brewing for a while. A guy, all I'm saying is, even if it hadn't, a guy like that, he doesn't want the perception out there that he don't know how to run his own house. That's true, too.

You know what I mean? Like, this looks like I don't know how to run my own house. These guys are out there telling stories on each other. I don't run my own house. I don't have, if this guy's backstabbing this guy and this guy's backstabbing this guy, I don't have my own stuff in order. This isn't the kind of stuff that happens in a, in a good company, right?

And so for him, it's different than Joe Schmo owner that nobody even knows, right? And it's very possible, like, this was the push. Okay, we're going to do it right now. We're not going to wait a week, not going to wait until after the season. Like, finals are over. It's happening right now. Well, to me, it read like the, and this has been a story that's old as time. The stat guy or the analytics-based guy comes in.

And the basketball, that's what I was going to say. The basketball guys are all like, F this dude. I mean, this happened. I remember hearing stories years ago about Daryl. The reason. You still hear stories like people who don't like Daryl more. The reason the reason I met Daryl was actually through Chris Wallace because they were both in Boston because Chris was the one. They're still good friends to the state.

He was the one that was friends and nice to Daryl because Daryl was brought in as this quaint guy. And, you know, the Leo Pepi. and everybody else in the world, you know, they're like, you know, take your binders and shove them up your ass, nerd, you know. Exactly. Why is it? Still hear that sometimes. But why are we listening to this guy?

Like, get this effig guy out. Like, what are we doing here? But Chris was nice to him, so they've been friends. But the truth is that you didn't read a story about that years ago. And that's been going on. It happened with Hollinger. bro nobody cares about the frigate, I don't even know what you're

I don't even understand your formulas. With Haralobob, I think it's more personality based. You know, like how, I mean, a lot of people just don't like Bob. Yeah, but all these guys. You can run people the wrong way all the time. So I think, I think that's a big part of it. And if you, like, people skills

matter though, too, Chris. Like, that's a legitimate great, great for somebody in a leadership role. And if, you know, it is. Like, regardless, of what line of work that it is. So, you know, I think with him, with Mark Cuban, we'll see what happens if there's a role for him moving forward, whether it's as a consultant, you know, who isn't around the team on a database basis or somebody with a bigger role. I don't think it'll be the bigger role.

But we'll see what happens. And I look forward to seeing what Cuban does here because there's a big void now. That's arguably the top coaching job to be able to coach Luca Donchurch. It's one of the best young players we've ever seen in the game at his age. also for a general manager too. Like, is he going to go, you know, for a big swing here? I don't know. Or is he going to go for somebody within the organization that's worked under

Donnie Nelson for years, like a low-key hire? I am really excited to see what Cuban does here because these decisions, Chris, that he makes will have a ripple effect into the next three, four, five years because Luca is the type of guy who has no tolerance for losing. He's been winning since he was a little kid ever since he's been a teenager. It's going to be that. This guy is going to. need to have this team get it right or it's going to get ugly.

I don't know if you read the last article that they put. No, no, this was actually the, it might have been the Tim McMahon Wodge one. I read the night. I mean, it's pretty obviously going to be that Jamal Mosley guy. So Jamal Mosley. They got a quote from Luca about Jamal Mosley. I didn't see this. Yes.

Okay. So here's, so here's from Luca. I got to pull this up. About Jamal Mosley. And I was like, okay. well, I guess I don't need to worry about who's going to get that job. Like, if they got him on the record talking about what he thinks about Jamal Mosley as a head coach.

So a couple weeks or months, I think it was a couple months ago. I had heard a lot of stuff out there about Rick Carlisle really kind of losing his voice in the locker room. You know, Luca didn't really love him that much at all. Didn't like the way he was utilized and like the connection that they had. But the guy he loves is Jamal Mosley. Luca loves Jamal Mosley. he is connected with him and they do they do everything pregame together they understand the game together they just click right and that his preference is for moseley to be the head coach and my thought is this though

moseley very well may be like the best candidate for a job he could be a brilliant coach i don't know a lot about you know how he would be as a head coach it's very hard to know how anybody will be as a head coach you hear a lot of great things about assistance sometimes and then they stink it up so it's like a crap shoot a lot of the time, but how much do you value the star players preference when it comes to hiring a head coach if you are a general manager, which they don't have right now. So if you're Mark Cuban, how much do you weigh Lucas opinion with the decision here? Because it matters a lot what he thinks about the guy who gets hired. I don't know. Why don't you call Houston and ask them how it works out when you hire the coach? I know. And that's the thing. That's the thing. Exactly. Exactly.

That's the way it can go sometimes. Players aren't always right. Nobody's always right. No, it's hard. It's hard to hire people. It's really tough. No, but dude, if you don't hire the guy they want, I know, then he gets mad. And then if it doesn't work out with the guy you hire and Mosley leaves for some other job somewhere else because Carlisle's gone and he doesn't have his favorite coach since he was a rookie. And then the next guy sucks. What does that turn into? It turns into like first take in the morning. How are the Knicks going to get Luca? It turns into us talking about it on the later show for the drive back home. When you're going to, you listen to the mismatch on a Tuesday afternoon. That's what it turns into. And that's why the implications of what Mark Cuban does here are so significant. And I cannot wait to see what happens because, like, it's fascinating. There could be so many ripple effects. Well, now, this is right or wrong.

Now with Rick Carlisle gone, you have Greg Popovich was hired in 1996. He's got a title. Wow. Eric Spolstra, 2008. He's got a title. Steve Kerr, 2014. he's got a title. Then you have, so the third, fourth, and fifth,

longest tenured coaches with their teams were Rick Carlisle, Terry Stott's, and Brad Stevens. All of them will not be on the sidelines. The other two that are not like either 2018 or later, Quinn Snyder and Michael Malone. Snyder's been there since 14, Malone's been there since 15. That's it, Kevin.

In a league of 30 teams, there are five that have been with their team longer than 2018. It's 2021, bro. That's incredible. Five. That's incredible. And Quinn Snyder might not make it if they lose to this Paul George Nick Batum Clippers. I don't know. I mean, I guess he'll be he's a good coach.

He's great coach, right? But, I mean, like, that's the, that's the mode of operation now. You just don't coach long in any of these situations. So let's move to the other one. All right. So let's say Luca does get to choose his coach, right? I mean, no lie. There is a quote with him on the record talking about Jamal Mosley.

Does Zion get to pick his? Might. I know he got, hey, I know he got to pick who the hell was out. That sounds like, I mean, oh, my God. How about those stories? Well, that seems like it was more mutual. Yeah, but they were like Zion's family's tired of watching Brandon. Hey, it came out. Zion doesn't like him.

Brandon Ingram doesn't like him. Nobody likes it. I mean, again, with the Pelicans, it's the same thing, though. David Griffin has to get this right. He's got to get it right. The fact is, is that someday there will be a player who signs the qualifying offer because they want to test unrestricted free agency the following year instead of signing a rookie max extension.

That will happen someday. I don't know who it will be. Zion Williamson will have a $17.5 million qualifying offer. In a couple of years, who knows, Chris? I wonder if, though, it's going to happen faster like it did with the Porzingis thing where he didn't get to the point where it was extension time. But before he got to that point, he said, I re-signed it here. So you might as well get something for me.

And that might be the formula. Like it might be it. But somebody won't get traded like KP did. Yep. And then we're going to see it happen. It's going to happen someday. Like I mean, people, everybody around the league says it believes it's going to happen. It's just a matter of who.

Absolutely. The circumstances need to be really unique for that to happen. Here's a thing. This is the only thing that confuse me, Kevin. Maybe you could tell me about this. What the hell on June 17th? Why the hell June 17th? St. Or 16th, whatever. Yeah. Like, why, why didn't it take it until June 16th to figure out that Brandon

Ingram and Zion don't like the guy. I mean, that's, I don't know. It's just weird, right? It's an odd time. Like I said, I think a lot of it was because it was mutual. Maybe Stan Van Gundy needed time to think about it too before they decided to do it. Like, like legitimately the stuff from that article. He needed to think about whether or not he wanted to be fired. No, I mean, if they want to, what do they call it? They called it part ways, didn't they? Huh? Didn't they call it?

Oh, come on. No, but it was like, there's a lot out there about him not being happy living in New Orleans. That's been out there since during the season. Oh, so that he had him and his family didn't love New Orleans and that he was happier doing what he was doing before. Maybe it was a, uh, how much money of this contract do we have to pay you? It could be that too. Buy out negotiations. Negotiations contained.

We'll say we part in ways. How much of this $35 million do we got to pay you? It could have been that. Because you only coached a year. We're not paying you the other 30. Like seriously. Hey, I'll tell you what, whether it was a mutual decision or not, it's going to be mutually beneficial.

You know, for the pelicans here, like it just didn't work. Zion, Brennan, Inger, all these guys didn't connect with him. And with Van Gundy, hey, can do some media. Maybe he'll be happier. Right? Hopefully he is. If that's true that the family and aunt love living there, that matters most.

So for the team, though, what type of coach are we looking for to build around Zion? Like, what type of system do you want to see that coach bring? Like, regardless of the name, like, how do you want a coach to play Zion? Well, first. That needs to be part of the equation. First we got a personnel thing. And to me. And that's on Griffin.

Yes. To me, I would look at it. I read all those quotes and I read those stories, right? And I don't know if you noticed this, but both Zion and Ingram love Lonzo and went out of their way to speak about wanting him back. So if I look at it and I say, all right, now I got Lonzo. I'm trying to flank those guys with outstanding defenders that can also play some offense,

and I'm flying. I'm flying. You know what I mean? I'm getting these guys out in space. Because if Lanzo, they both love him and they think, Ingram said I think he's a generational talent in passing the ball, right?

And so if those guys have that kind of a relationship to where they're willing, they're going out that hard, core for the guy. I didn't realize they were all as close as it appears they are. But with Lonzo, I would look at it and I would say, all right, I've got Lonzo, I've got Ingram, I've got Zion. Now, how do I, how do I get the most out of these? And man, if you can get those guys out in space, I would have those three and I would flank them with some guys that can play defense and shoot. And that's it. No lie. No lie. I would play some guys that can play defense and shoot.

And I would also... A bunch of 3-&D guys around Zion. But more so than anything, I would get them a coach that can connect with them. They just didn't respond to this guy. Yeah. They didn't. They didn't.

They didn't respond. Tough mentality didn't work. No. No. So, I mean, you don't have to go the complete opposite way of that. But at this point, like, I do think it would be welcome. to have somebody in there that would, you know what I mean? Like, that's not drill sergeanting these guys, you know?

And somebody that can, you know, look, I've talked a lot, and I know that Bud's not a big one right now for anybody, but, you know, that Darwin Ham has been there on that Bud staff for a long time. He's come up for names. I hate to see him get caught up in this, you know, with the Bud stuff. if everybody gets so down on him because those guys that have been under them, whether it's, I'd tell you who would be, who would come to mind, if you're not going to keep somebody there because they're, you know, they've got a comfort level, you know, because the Teresa Weatherstone's

names come up, another guy from the staff, right, his name came up. Fred Benson. You know who I think could be good there? And also Charles Lee from the Bucks too. You know who I think could be good there is Atkinson. Hmm, interesting. Because I would look at it a little like how they got that Brooklyn thing going with the Lavert and Russell and all that, right? He created a culture there where that team really ended up liking each other.

And that was a young team that developed, right? And I think you do need somebody that has some level of experience of developing a young team, you know, because that's what that is. You know? And so I actually think he could be a pretty good choice there. I thought he did a good job in Brooklyn. How about this thought right here? With Nate McMillan, he is the interim coach, doesn't have a head coaching contract for next season yet. I wonder, you know, like we talk about free agent seasons for players, did Nate McMillan have a free agent season for a coach?

Oh, they'll lock him up. But like could somebody drop the bag? No way. and outbid Atlanta. No way. Like, by a lot. No way. Like, has he done enough for that to happen?

Like, the Bintas ain't dropping a bag. Their locker room sucks. Come on. They're not dropping up. I'm just, I know, I know, especially after Griffin just went told him they're going to pay Stan Van Gandhi. Chris, I'm not talking about the Pelicans. They already have to pay Van Gundy.

I'm talking about anybody. Will somebody drop the bag for Nate McMillan? It's feasible. It's feasible. It'd be interesting. I think Atlanta is going to. I think Atlanta will and should. You can't.

You could somebody else be like, we'll give you a 50% more. I'll tell you this. More so than anything. Forget about Kenny Atkinson. I don't know what the offer will be. Hey, forget about Kenny Atkins or Weatherstone or any of these things we brought up, right? Regarding Pelicans, just go as I on who he wants. Be like, you know, will you sign here if we hire?

I'd hire his dad if he don't get into sign there. You know what if I mean? Just whatever. I mean, I can't lose him. So whatever. I'm sorry. What if Lonzo says I'll resign if you hire my dad? Oh, I would love that.

Oh, that would be the bad. That's a great idea. Not only. Oh, my God. What if Zion wants LeVar is the coach? And then they could be like, you know what? The Pelican ain't that significance. Can we be the New Orleans big ballers?

Chris, you did say you want to play running gun up and down the floor. That's how LaVar wants to play. That's it. Levar Ball for coach of the New Orleans Pelicans. He's been right about everything. else. All right, one real quick before we get out of here. Scott Brooks, he's gone.

There's another long tenured coach, by the way. Wild. Another one, yep. Yeah, so he's gone at Washington. And this one matters a great deal just because whoever comes in is going to have to, you know, like he had a long prior relationship with Westbrook, right? Oh, yeah. So you got Westbrook and you've got that hover.

covering everybody's always putting Beal into every free scenario ever situation. And so it is another, it is another, can I, you know, how do I, how do I keep my stars happy, you know, like Scott Brooks, to his credit, you're not getting a bunch of the articles coming out saying,

these guys didn't like Scott Brooks. It's just Scott Brooks didn't do that good of a job, right? But I'd say this, he held that thing together. I do think he needs credit for that because they had no chance at making the playoffs and then they made the playoffs. Right. And he got them to keep on playing it out the rest of the way. And I'm not so.

He fell into a rotation that worked. That's right. We talked about Ty Lou earlier figuring it out. He found something that worked. He did. And he also, like, he got those guys playing. There was a time in the season where Brad Beale's body language and, you know, face, you know, you can see it on his face and he was just sick of this crap. They're like 13 and 39 or whatever dreadful record they had at one point.

And then they fought back. And next thing you know, they were playing playoff games for goodness sake. So this guy, you know, Scott Brooks is, I think he probably falls into the class that most coaches do. I think there's a very small handful that raise your ceiling a great deal or maximize your roster in a way that many others could not. And then the majority of these guys fall into the same kind of class of NBA coach, you know, which means they're often criticized. Everybody thinks they stink and they get to coach for three or four years. And then we get a new guy.

And then we think the new guy stinks after three or four years because guys keep their jobs for three or four years. Nobody thinks anybody's good anymore. Seriously. Like that's why these guys coach, you know, there's five of them. three of which have titles. The only two guys that have been with their teams for any long term at all that don't have titles are Quinn Snyder and Michael Malone.

That's it. Something else, man. And by the way, Rick Carlisle has a title. But I was shocked to see. I didn't realize this offhand. I was reading this article today, and it said, you know, they won that 2011 title. Dallas has not been in the second round

since then. Yeah. Isn't that something else? It's really remarkable. That's unbelievable. I was shocked

to read that. Mm-hmm. I was like, damn, they haven't been in the second round since 2011? It's a long-ass time,

Kiff. It's pretty crazy, man. And that was a six times in the playoffs, too, all first round exits. Wow.

Long time. Long time. All right. Well, we're going to have a ton of news. Look, we've had a massive amount of news

that has taken place throughout this week and who the hell knows what else could happen over the weekend and hopefully we get some game sevens besides, you know. Oh, yeah, that'd be nice. We're assured one. We might get two more. We'll see. I look forward to the games on Friday night.

It's going to be fun. We will reconvene next Tuesday. Thanks for producer Carlos for filling in for us again. And we will talk to you next week.