The Mismatch - The Bucks Win Game 5 Without Giannis. Plus: Chris Paul and the Suns are Headed to the Finals

Episode Date: July 2, 2021

Late Thursday night, Verno and KOC talk about the Bucks winning Game 5 without Giannis (1:30), the Suns making it to the NBA Finals and what it means for Chris Paul (19:56), and the state of the Clippers (49:30). Plus, what's next for Kawhi Leonard and Paul George (54:42)? Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On R2C2, C-2, C-Sabathia and Ryan Rucco guide listeners through everything going on in the MLB, NBA, and NFL. They also talk to friends, athletes, and celebrities about the world of sports, and much more. Check out R2C2 with C-C-Sabathia and Ryan Rucco on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Misfatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me as he does every Friday from The Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K., Kevin O'O. Bomber, Kevin O'Conter, Kevin O'Coneman, Kevin O'Chyl, Kevin O'Chyn, Kevin O'Chynness, Kevin O'Clyan, Kevin O'Clyan, Kevin. Burnow. What's going on, buddy? Well, I wish we would have gotten a better game that we are going to react to

as we are recording this late on Thursday night as Milwaukee wins the extremely pivotal game five between the Bucks and the Hawks. It was announced... Missing some guys, though. You know, it was announced early in the day that Yannis wasn't going to be available. And then it was announced later in the day, closer to game time. that Trey Young was going to be unavailable. And so both of these teams without their best players and just given what we had seen out of Atlanta without Trey Young

in that last home game, I was persuaded to believe that they might be better equipped to play without Trey than the Bucks to play without Yannis. But that is not the way it played out at all. We have seen these teams rally together, you know, and really play as cohesive units with the ball popping around. It was the story of the Clippers after they lost Kauai, you know, that, you know, no one guy is going to save you. And so everybody needs to be able to play together and be on a defensive string. And it also gives the opportunity for a lot of guys that don't take as many shots to be much.

more involved offensively when, you know, your highest volume guy is out. And I got to be honest with you. I was super impressed by Milwaukee to put up 123. And this is after we saw them in a game where they had Janus for a half. They scored what? I don't think they broke 90. Didn't they end with 88 in that last game? So the key factor there, Chris, I've always said this. When you remove tray young from the hawks lineup their interior defense just falls off a cliff you can't stop anybody at the room tray young is the best room protector in the absolute game here chris so that was the key factor tonight the bucks just i mean i'm kidding of course that's not because of tray young but brooke lopez bobby porters everybody on that team really just getting to the rim at will

i haven't seen the final numbers after the game but i would imagine they shot 100% in the paint i could talk you into this. Hey, look, it was a joke, but I'm going to actually validate it in, no, no, in some small way. Okay. That while it is not Trey Young that provides the rim protection, you get a different Capella when he plays. And this is very true. A lot of times with big guys, if they are extremely involved on the offensive end, you get a different level of defensive intensity, on the other end. And Capella was like, it was like he didn't even play in the game, honestly. Like, and I know he didn't play big, big minutes tonight.

But there have been nights where he has been an amazing contributor for this team. And he was rendered rather useless tonight. And on the flip side, this is the all-time game for Brooke Lopez. and this is the all-time game for Bobby Portis. Both of those guys simultaneously had the most important games of their entire careers. Didn't that look like vintage Brooke Lopez prime, Brooke Lopez? Yes. Yes.

I mean, look, better. He's 14 of 18 for God's sakes. Yeah, better. When was last time? I mean, 14 for 18, 33 points. seven rebounds, four blocks. I mean, he was just unbelievable. And Portis, who's always been a guy I really liked, you know,

we talked about this even in regards to Lou Williams in the last game, you know, what level of contribution can you get from the guy that is replacing the guy you're missing? And, you know, it's not Janus numbers, but when Portis can start for you, play 35 minutes without getting in foul trouble, be physical, get your three steals, get your three assists to go along with 22 points and eight rebounds? I mean, that's outstanding production from that spot. No doubt about it.

I mean, I think you look at what those guys did on the offensive end of the floor tonight. I mean, in addition, we didn't mention the names Chris Middleton or Drew Holiday yet, right? I mean, we said it on Tuesday night. The Hawks have better depth, but the bucks have. better top end depth, if that makes sense. Like those guys who can slide right in and potentially have big games. Like sometimes it's so easy to forget, Chris. Brooke Lopez's role for this Bucks team oftentimes is to be a spot-up shooter.

Oftentimes. Sometimes they have him inside. But in the prime of his career, this was a guy who feasted on post-ups, feasted on cuts and rolls to the rim. And we just saw a heck of a lot more of that because of the opportunity provided without Janice out there, right? I mean, it's pretty clear to me that, you know, you mentioned last game, like we expected maybe Atlanta could adjust better based off what we saw, but it's pretty apparent to

me that when the coaching staff and the Bucks went back and watched the film, they said, we have ways to exploit this Hawks defense with Brooke Lopez. And they did that in every single way tonight. It was impressive to see. And I thought Drew Holiday also looked better than he has. I mean, he was only nine for 20, but the way he was moving, the way he was getting to the basket, the passing. I think it was really, in many ways, just the purpose he played with.

Like, he's very decisive with his movements on the court with his dribble and where he was going with the ball. He played a sensational game, even if, like, it was only 9 for 20. Those 13 assists, only two turnovers were absolutely incredible for the bucks. Well, this is a, this is, in this one, I'm a, I'm a wait and see because it seems far fetch that they're going to get Janus back. Yeah, definitely. Probably, you're much closer to being able to get tray back.

But that goodness, though, for Yannis, it's only a hyper extension, that there's nothing more than that. And as far as we know, as far as we know. It's just so unclear. I know, as far as we know. I am, I'm at my wits end with some of the injury stuff. And I understand why they would treat it the way they have. But, you know, the hyper extension stuff, when, when somebody says, you know, a guy's got a hyper extended knee. what that means, and this is, I learned this from in street clothes, Jeff Stottz.

That's just describing what happened. That's not your injury. That's just describing what happened to your knee. Now, it was followed up today where they said there was no structural damage. Yes. But you also don't know what it means. You don't know what his injury. is like, okay, so you ruled out the fact that you don't have, they didn't find structural damage,

which is a good thing when you're talking about an ACL, which was out there and there was a fear that that could happen, right? So. Of course it's a fear. There's always a fear anytime the guy's knee bends backwards. Of course the organization feared that. But I mean, like a guy, if you say a guy hyper extended his knee, I mean, it's like the equivalent of saying a guy twisted his ankle.

Okay, cool. So what's wrong with it? Is it broken? Is it sprained? Is it like, is his knee sprained? Like, we don't know. They have been closed mouth on that. All we know is the big thing, which is that he is not because 99% of the time. And we've been through this actually with some very high profile players, not the least of which is Kauai Leonard on the other side.

You know, and we've mentioned this before, Kev, there's a timeline on this stuff. the injury takes place, then the diagnosis, you know, they rule them out for the game with whatever they say they're ruling them out with. And then by the next morning,

you're going and you're getting all the scans and everything like that. And then they tell you, here's what the injury is. Here's the timeline for this type of injury typically. Then you have rehab. Then you have returned. Well, we're not getting that second piece on this.

You know, so in the absence of knowing what the injury is, you can't know what the timeline is. And that's intentional. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but ultimately, like, we know, we know there's not structural damage, but there could be, you know, tissue issues, you know, there could be a heck of a lot that we don't know. And I mean, ultimately, it would really be a shocker if he were to come back. Like, finals, if the bucks make the finals, who knows? We'll see. We'll see. But it's so hard to know without all the details. They might be able to get Tray Young back.

And it's going to be a home game. And, you know, the Bucks have felt many times, many times the most impressed you've been with the Bucks is when you've watched them on their home court. They do, they have an unbelievable crowd. You know, we wondered how much home court advantage would matter. And like you watch a game like tonight and that crowd was really into it. And you feel like. How about the fans outside?

They're jumping up and down. It's a concert just up and down and sink. It was beautiful to watch. It's just a different energy. You know what I mean? It's a different energy when they're playing in that arena. And it stands to reason that you might not get that level of play when they are playing a game six on the road against a team with the back against a wall that might get their best player back. So, I mean, I don't know if this.

And there will inevitably be adjustments to the way this has played. This has been quite the chess match and a very difficult proposition. for both of these coaches because you are coaching teams in the absence of your most important player on your team and all the while trying to figure out how do I want to attack this opposing team on both ends with a different, you know, it's a different team. It's just like when you lose that guy, a lot of times teams just function like they function if a guy goes out, right? Like the Hawks, they lose DeAndre Hunter.

They plug a guy in and they play, right? The bucks, they lose DeVincenzo. They plug a guy in and they play. They're going to have some problems with it. But they just do it. You can't, when your best player's gone, you know, like now all of a sudden you're Ty Lou and you're playing zone against the Phoenix Sun to the game.

Or you're going five wide and playing five small guys. And the same thing goes with this. I'm sure that if you would have told me, or if I would have told you, Kevin, this morning, I would have said, look, I'm going to give you one fact about tonight's game, Kevin. The Milwaukee Bucks are going to hit nine three-pointers. I mean, there's no amount of money you wouldn't have bet against them.

Yeah, you're right. Nine? Yep. Who wins a game making nine three-pointers in 2021? That's like first quarter stuff. Yeah, it's a first quarter stuff. But I mean, like that speaks to, you know, the game, though, and how it played out the fact that they were getting into the paint at the rim with

Broke Lopez, with everybody on that roster, getting to the paint, getting to the basket. And that's the way they won this game was getting to the rim. And I thought on the other side, though, for Atlanta, if you're looking ahead to game six here, it's got to be a little bit encouraging at least that if you get trayback, Bogdan Bogdanovich looked better than he has physically throughout the entire series and it showed up in the numbers as well, seven for 16 from three, 28 total points. That has to be a bit encouraging.

I thought it was odd how often they tried to get Danello Gallinari switched on to Drew Holiday on some post-ups. I mean, Drew is seven, eight inches shorter than Gallo, but he can defend the post. He's tough. I don't think that's a great mismatch that you should be hunting out necessarily.

So for Atlanta here entering game six, if you get Trey back in a game that Yannis might not, I mean, in all likelihood, won't be back. from Milwaukee, there are some encouraging indicators and herder should be way better than a three for 12 in a game six. But if you're a fall hawks fan coming back down three, two now, going to be really, really challenging, but not impossible if Giannis doesn't return from Milwaukee. Well, here's the most promising thing for Atlanta. The old adage, Kevin, is that in the

playoffs, role players play better at home. And hell, that's all we got left in this series. Just all role players. Just a bunch of role players. So if they play better at home, You saw a play better at home tonight for Milwaukee. Ine inevitably in Atlanta, you'll probably see them play better. If it was like a January regular season game in some ways, except it had playoff implications. It's just kind of weird. When's the last time we saw a game?

Has it ever happened that two conference finalists didn't have their best players? I mean, I can't remember. I mean, I can't recall it. I mean, my memory is not great at pulling stuff out out of the archives like this. But question for the listeners. I'm curious if anybody, listening remembers that either because I can't think of the time. Whereas the best player on the team, I mean, I know. I mean, we just had one without Kauai. But then even if you say that,

they still had Paul George. How about like no, you know, current all NBA or all star talent? Like even, like even then. Well, I mean, Millie's Middleton's been. Yeah. Chris Middleton has been sure. Yeah. He has been an all star. But I, I want to go back to the guy that you did mention about them trying to get the matchups on Holiday. Holiday is a guy that I have always had an intensely high opinion of and have thought this is a guy that these are the, this is the kind of guy that you want on your team for playoff runs. Like he's there for it.

He's a foxhole guy. And he has just been a monstrous disappointment to me throughout this playoff run. Just, you know, I have a very high state. for him and tonight was really like the first night where I felt like now that's that guy

you know and now he he was forced into being that guy he has hit he hits a big shots down the stretch against Brooklyn but there were there were a lot of times in that Brooklyn series it's like God man I think so much of you like what is going on here

and tonight the 25 points the 13 assists like what more can you ask for from this guy than what he gave you tonight? And at least it was, I mean, it's taken a long time. But I mean, like I honestly thought maybe not 25 and 13. I thought you were going to get a lot of big games out of Drew Holiday when the lights got the brightest. Because, you know, the one time I remember seeing him in playoff basketball was that series where his Pelicans team would, the good one with AD. that they had that wiped out Portland.

I was like, yo, this guy, like this is a guy that when you get to the playoffs, that's what you're remembered for the most. And this guy, not only is he there for it. My God, he is awesome. And, you know, you just, once that sticks with you, it's like, now here's a guy that raises his level of play when it comes to playoff time.

And he hadn't been that guy to me. throughout this, but he was tonight. And, and you know, entering tonight, just to give the, this some context, 16.5 points per game, 29% from three, 42% from the field where Drew Holiday's numbers entering tonight's game. So, you know, low from three, lower than normal from two point range, even from free throw, only 67% throughout the postseason compared to 79% during the regular season. All his numbers are down. is this some cold streak?

Is he tired? I mean, is it nerves? I don't know what it is. I can't imagine his nerves. Like you said, we've seen him play at a very high level in the postseason before. If it's a cold streak, very well could be. It happens. Maybe this is a turning point here.

Maybe. And Milwaukee could be getting a hot Drew holiday the rest of the season, just like they had all year long. You know, 18 points per game, nearly 40% from three. He was nasty for the bucks all season long. If they get that guy the rest of the way, they might just win the NBA finals. Well, and if they have a, you know,

if they can win one of these next two games, I mean, you're matched up with Chris Paul. That should be fun. You can't get bigger than that, right? Imagine that. I mean, you can't get bigger than that. And so you got to come to the party with something, right?

In that case, he was very, very good tonight, very good. When they needed it most, he had a huge game. to your point about the confidence ain't come on he has no problem with confidence hell he was one for a thousand in that brooklyn game and he hit three of the biggest shots of the game he kept shooting he was like four for 20 or something and he's taking three of the biggest shots of the entire game

uh when they eliminated brooklyn uh anyways it's so hard to know you know who's going to be available if tray young's coming back for game six but i mean it's is Atlanta on their home court. I think they, they burned us so many times that I do give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't think that this game, I didn't watch this game and go up, bucks, you know, it took them a little while in the series, but they got them figured out now. Like I don't, there are so many like outlier things that took place in this game. I mean, Brooke Lopez, come on.

How many times are you getting 30 plus again? to you. Bobby Portis had the best game of his career. I mean, now Middleton and Middleton, we talk about like what could be duplicated. Middleton and Holiday could both simultaneously be great. I think so too.

For sure. No doubt about that. But they got big performances out of guys that I would not have expected them to get the big performances out of. Now, on to what took place last night. That is the bright future sons of the bright now sons they are in the NBA finals.

Right future sons. After defeating somewhere, Josh Jackson and T.J. Warren and Dragon Bender. Alex Land and Tyler Ulyss and all the rest of them. I hope they all poured one out last night for the sins of the past because they were all righted. by Chris Paul last night. And that was one of those nights, Kevin, where it's the signature masterpiece performance for a guy that has had an unbelievable career

when he is, because it's not just, you know, it's late in his career and he's finally getting to the finals. It's late in his career. He was the best player on the floor by a wide margin in a game that was going to decide his fate. and 41 points and he's got like no turnovers he's got eight assists

and every time the clippers got any bit of hope he dashed it he was something else you were not beating that guy last night like it that's how that felt you know what I'm saying like there's those old stories about you know

Barkley you know looking across at Jordan and being like I can't beat this guy like that's how it felt last night watching that game it was like every time the clippers got a little bit of hope and Steve Palmer started grabbing people's groins. That was weird. When Balmer did that,

did you see the guy who like reached down at Balmer's hand was like pushed it away? Like get out of here. Very awkward. I mean, that's... Balmer gets a little too excited sometimes. You don't want,

you don't say. What a moment. If anybody hasn't seen that, look for the Balmer celebration clip. It's pretty funny. If you haven't seen it, my goodness. it's NC17.

Chris Paul last night and that Phoenix Sun's team. And let me say something, because we'll backtrack to the actual game. But his moment after the game where sometimes these post game interviews give you nothing.

Yeah. And sometimes there's moments that take place. And you didn't know what he was going to do when Rachel Nichols asked some questions about what it means to him because there's many guys in the past that have said, you know, this is awesome.

We're so happy that we were able to get this done, but we're not done yet, you know, that kind of stuff. There's still work to be done or whatever. And instead, he took that moment to say, it's been 16 years. There's all these people that have been by me and it's all those surgeries. And it's all those losses, and it's all those bad losses.

And it's being here and giving my heart and soul in L.A. for six years and coming up short. And then obviously, and like he got very reflective. And he's like, we're going to enjoy this. And we're going to enjoy this today. And it was like, it was like a real moment. There's a real moment, right, where a guy, it felt like he did take the time to smell the rose. as they say, rather than just do the, you know, the cliched or work's not done. We got more work to do.

We're not happy yet. You know, that kind of thing. It's like, yo, it's been 16 years. I've been trying to get to where I just got. And my back hurts because Pepev pushed me. No. But it was like, it was a moment for sure. look his antics can get annoying he even at a couple moments last night the flopping that's part of that's part of the NBA and part of Chris Paul but also everybody recognized is what an unbelievable player he has been for so long and if you are a true basketball fan and an NBA fan I find it difficult to believe that you did not feel happy for that guy how could you not feel happy for Chris Paul Chris after watching him

for over a decade, you know, so like the way, like if you start from his career to where you're how much of your life has changed now, there's so few players who have maintained such an elite level of play over the course of over, you know, 15 years, 16 years. It's remarkable that he's still doing this. Like you don't take Chris Paul for granted. And I thought Chris, the quote that he said in the locker, I'm the son's posted video today. And like they're celebrating DeAndre Aitens, you know, laying on the floor with the trophy. and Chris Paul says something along the lines of, as good as this feels, imagine what the next

one's going to feel like. And I thought the way the team celebrated, the way they rallied, the way this team has fought every step of the way here. And the fact that Chris Paul is doing this with Monty Williams, Monty Williams' first year as an NBA head coach was in 2010, Chris Paul's final season in New Orleans. The fact that these guys, 10 years later, joined up again, how all of their lives have changed so much over those 10 years and that they're together again and now that they have this opportunity to bring the Phoenix Suns to the NBA finals and maybe win it. It just feels like, I mean,

the sons in some ways feel like a team of destiny. We'll see what happens with the Bucks. They could very much have the same beautiful story. Yannis has a scary injury and he goes down, then he comes back and has some heroics. It could be the same thing for the Bucks. Like there's always multiple teams that feel like a team of destiny. You know what I'm saying? But this son's team, it's just very much like a storybook, the way it has come together with Chris Paul and Monty Williams, helping this franchise with Devin Booker and DeAndreira and some of the young bright spots, McKell Bridges, too, and coming together and building this team that plays together, that plays for each other and just plays a high level of basketball on both ends of the floor. It's a heck of a lot of fun to watch, man. It's a great story of the fact that they're even here. years ago, you know, you say, I covered a lot of playoff series that included Chris Paul. I detested Chris Paul in those Clippers teams for so long. But I talked about this a couple weeks ago, you know, in this day and age, when you know,

after colossal disappointment in Houston, when he gets shipped off to go play in Oklahoma City, and he didn't make a peep and he didn't force his way out and he didn't throw fit over it, and he didn't lay down. He took a group of guys that he had never played with before, threw him on their back. They were the best clutch team in the NBA. They were the best,

he was the best clutch performer in the NBA, and he got him the damn five seed last year, right? And then he's able to move on. And he doesn't go with two other superstars. I mean, to me, his story and the way this has happened, You talked about the 10 years ago play with Monty Williams. And I, man, I felt old the other day. I saw, did you see it where this was when he was out for COVID?

The video that they were showing that was taken at their house by his kid. It was a TikTok video with Chris Paul dancing in the background and this is when he was out for COVID. and I think the kid on TikTok is like little Chris Paul or something. I mean, he's got a ton of followers or whatever. But I was watching it. I'm like, like, when you say about how much they have changed and we have changed throughout watching his career, I'm sitting there going, that's the kid from his lap in the press conferences?

Like that, how? How? How does this kid, little Chris Paul, looks like a teenager's got TikToks with this, you know, dad acting goofy in the background. I'm like, this is wild. Wild. Like, I remember.

Everybody remembers Chris Paul going to press conferences with this kid on his lap. Like, that was commonplace every playoffs. And the other thing I'll say is this. He's the best player on the floor last night in a Western conference finals game. You have 41 points. And if you would have told somebody that

two years ago. Literally two years ago, Kevin. He played 58 games for the Rockets. He averaged 15 points a game. He shot 42% from the field and 36% from three for the season. Now, if you would have said in two years, Chris Paul is going to score 41 points in a Western Conference Finals game on the road and throw it. we like that that even if you didn't think he was done even if he didn't think he was done no i'm

saying but even if you didn't write him off the idea that his best could be ahead of him at that point was far-fetched it was far-fetched to believe that his best would be ahead of him but you can't be better than i mean i'm not like like from an individual standpoint like these still aren't his prime years in terms of individual talent and numbers and production. But like I still think two years ago that final season with Houston, he just played way better without James Hardin. When Hardin wasn't out there on the floor, and this is where I think things were missed, like it didn't work for a lot of different reasons with him and Hardin.

But like when I interviewed Mike Dan Tony that year for a story that I never ended up doing, Dan Tony said to me, he's like, I think Chris Paul is still going to play great for another three, four, five, six years. That this guy's nowhere near done, that people are missing something here and that Oklahoma City is about to get a great player. We saw him be that great player for Oklahoma City. Like you said, Chris, I think so much about what he did last season with that team. I do.

You know, he could have went there and pouted, like you said, recently. He could have pouted. He could have forced his way out and said, I don't want to play here. But instead, he took on a leadership position, helped along. Sheigildas Alexander, all these young guys, they won a heck of a lot of games, competed, made a little bit of a run there. And then he went home. They know, close to home in Phoenix.

You know, his family is located very much in Los Angeles. So he wanted to be close to home. And the fact that he's did that in Los Angeles too, it's just great, man. The fact that everybody was there for him. And how wild is it to think back? What if they would have said, you know what? We're rolling with Chris Paul. Yeah.

And they would have traded hardened then. I mean, it would have been, it obviously would have been insane to think about. But you know the way it all played out. If like, let's say Dan, Tony was. like in a Stan Van Gundy role. And Dan Tony was like, I'm going to trade James Hard. That's right. And keep Chris Paul.

Yeah. Like to your point though, Chris, two years ago, if that was said, of course, like some people would be, you know, surprised. A lot of people would have been surprised. But like, I think the point I'm getting at here is guys like Mike Dan Tony wouldn't have been surprised. I think like there were a lot of people around the league who are like, I don't know. Chris Paul still got something here.

He still has something left in the tank. And he showed it, man. Like, and we'll see in the NBA fine. It could be, because here's the thing with Chris Paul. He was dealing with the injury earlier. Then he had the COVID stuff, getting back, getting back in game shape. We said on Tuesday show, a lot of short, you know, misses. If Chris Paul is back in peak shape here, back in basketball condition for the NBA finals here,

that's going to be just a major boost to some of the issues that Phoenix has had on offense, generating in the half court. If you get this version of Chris Paul on a more consistent basis, he's amazing. He looked, I mean, you got the peak. Chris Paul last night. Booker obviously looked a lot more like himself than he had in the past, in the recent past two. And now you've got a delay. They're going to get some extra time off here to get healthy. And just on the Paul thing, because it's obviously a Chris Paul appreciation day, 11 time All-Star, 10-time All-NBA, nine-time, all defense. I mean, every accolade you could ever want. And I was trying to, trying to think as I was watching last night about like, you know, you have that moment where it's like every basketball fan feels good for this guy

because you followed him for so long. And he's been a great, great player that has never been in the finals. And the list is not enormous of like the best players of all time that, because he's on that list. He's one of the best players of all time. Those accolades, you can match those up with,

all the great. Dominique Wilkins didn't play in an NBA finals. Chris Weber didn't play in an NBA finals. Carmelo Anthony, never played in an NBA finals. Probably, you know, in terms of accomplishment, because Nash won two MVP's, he's right there. I mean, Nash, he lost in three conference finals, once when he was in Dallas and twice when he was in Phoenix.

Of course, Chris Paul had lost four to three to the Warriors in 18, but you know and then you get down to like the the the the the the the the the the the vins carters and the joe johnsons and honestly paul george yeah like he's on that like there's not that many when you think about like never played in a in an NBA finals most of the greatest players ever or ones that have an insane amount of accolades have played in it before. And so that was something that was out there, right? It's not just like greatest players to not win a championship.

That list gets way small when you're talking about greatest players to never play in a final. For sure. And that's like a lot of more recent players like George Durbin, somebody who didn't, you know, make a time. Yeah, of course. A lot of classic players where you're talking last 20, 25 years or so. You know, most of those guys do.

You know, but even if you listed off the greatest players from the 50s and 60s, and 70s. Still not a lot. 90% of them did. Absolutely. At least make it. You know, you're 100% right. Even if they get beat. They played in it. Isn't it great that we're actually going to get to see Chris Paul in a finals, especially with this team with the way they play on both ends of the court? I'm just, I'm just excited to watch this Phoenix Suns team. And the fact that, you know, for us, Chris, we've had our fun back and forth about the Phoenix Suns over the years from the bright future sons to now the Bright Now Suns. It's just pretty wild since we started. of this show, 2016 and together, how much things have changed for that team from Ryan

McDonough and Earl Watson, to Igor along the way. Oh, Igor. I forgot about Igor. To now James Jones and Monty Williams, a brand new practice facility. Like everything about the Suns, they used to have a dump. I remember when I went to Phoenix to report a story on the Suns, Chris. I think it was in 2017. And like I sat in their practice arena with Earl Watson.

that place was a dump dude it's like this little crappy like old gym attached to the arena all the players hated it everybody in their organization hated it and it was just kind of like i remember just sitting there being like thinking to myself man i like some of the young talent on this team i love devon booker i like what they're trying to do but great teams don't have horrible facilities like that it just felt like a symbol of where they were and the fact that they replaced that and have way better players now. It's just cool to see how that team has changed with the people and with just how they run things there overall. So for Sun's fans, this is sustainable. That's that's, that's, that's one thought on my mind, that this is sustainable. This isn't a one-off with this,

infrastructure in place, front office coaching, the young talent on the team in addition to Chris Paul, these sons team, this is for real. This is here to stay. They're going to contend for a long time. They have a carryover of, you know, Booker from those, from those years, many years ago. And then they, they nailed the Bridges trade. Yeah, they did. Yeah. The Aitin pick has worked out. They didn't nail that pick, but it has worked out.

Yeah. Right. And, you know, sometimes things work out. If you remove, like, the context. In a vacuum, it's not the right pick. Yeah. But it has worked out. Exactly.

And it's a fit. And, you know, they attained Chris Paul. And it was... A stroke of genius. I actually went back and read the article about that trade where James Jones is talking about it. And he says, Chris is going to bring a level of competitiveness. And like all the things that have happened are exactly what he envisioned. when he made that deal.

And just to refresh everybody's mind, they traded, and it was Chris Paul and Abdel Nader was in the deal too. But Ricky Rubio, Kelly Ubre, Tide Jerome, Jalen Lequeath, and a 22 first round pick. That's what they gave up to get Chris Paul. And it changed their franchise forever. You know what I mean? Like, that is, I mean, I guess.

guess if Ty Jerome became an all-time great. It could look different, but I mean, that trade is, it's not like they gave up, you know, the farm to get him. That's not much to give up to get what you just, 41 points on the road in a game six of a Western Conference finals. You gave a Bricky Rubio. Did he play this season? I don't remember.

Kelly Ubre, who, by all accounts, Warriors don't even have interest in bringing him back. Tide Jerome, who got to play for Oklahoma City as they were losing 700 games. Jalen Leque, no idea. And then I guess whatever this pick is going to be, but it ain't going to be a good pick now because the sons are awesome, right? Newsflash, Christian, Christian, watch Ruby on Minnesota this year.

Huh? No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. It was a joke that he was nothing. Yeah, I know. Right. Yeah. Insignificant compared to Chris Paul. You know, it's just like he, he isn't even in the same guy. So as he once was, but you know, that trade, what James Jones has done, the character guys that he's brought in, a lot of intelligent, hardworking, selfless players that have all come together, that can be contributed to James Jones in the front office. You know, bringing him in and what he's done, the mind that he seems to have running the ship in Phoenix, you know, top down in this organization, like they have alignment.

And that's a rare thing. And that can go away quickly, pull one piece out, things fall apart. But this team has alignment and it seems sturdy. So for this son's team to be here now, it's great. I mean, and I think for them considering, like, let's say whether it's the Hawks or the Bucks, especially if it's the Bucks, if you don't have a full strength, Janice there.

Phoenix has a big time opportunity here, Chris, to win an NBA finals. They really, really do. There's a serious chance here with those teams having their stars

a bit limited right now. A couple of other people to feel really good about for the sons. It goes without saying there's virtually nobody in the world easier to root for than Monty Williams.

What he has been through both personally and professionally, the character guy that he is, and that everyone that has ever been associated with Monty Williams, you know, that that's not, that's not Monty Williams when you see him behind a microphone or on a camera. That is the way Monty Williams lives his life. And he's a religious man. He is someone who has been through. extreme tragedy and has showed a level of strength that I don't think I I I watch stuff like that um as someone with the family and I think about how what it would be like for me if I was in

that spot and you watch him and you just are an absolute awe an absolute awe like people can go back and watch when he spoke at his wife's funeral and it is one of the most moving things I've ever watched in my life and you know that's one of those times where we don't know a lot about these guys personal lives but that one we were forced to know about his personal life and we were forced to know a different side of him than we might have ever seen before and the way he conducted himself through all that. And I just, like, I can't have more respect for someone than I do Monty Williams. And for him to be at this point in his career getting to the NBA finals, I would feel

so intensely happy for him if he were able to win and have that professional joy. Especially alongside Chris Paul, who has been very effusive, impoverdive. praise about Chris as a person and a friend to him through the darkest times of his life. Many times we don't know people's darkest times. We do with Monty. And he's done an unbelievable job with that team, an unbelievable job with that team. And if he wins it, I defy anyone not to feel great for him. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Monty Williams, his story, his family story, like you said, that tragedy, heartbreaking for anybody to go through something like that. The strength he shows, though, I mean, it's just, you can't help.

But like you said, that speech he gave at his wife's funeral, you can't help but watch that and just feel something, you know, feels, you know, whatever, it's motivation or, you know, maybe it changes your mindset or your approach to life. It makes you feel something. and Monty Williams, the influence and the love that he has for his players and that his players have for him, the camaraderie that the entire team has, assistant coaches, assistants, like, that stems from him, you know, like in the way he is with his players and who he is as a man. And it's just great to see him in this place too, you know, with this team, with this roster. And the sons are an easy team to root for, Chris. They have a lot of people that are easy to root for. One more shout out to a guy that you can be happy for is in this moment. Well, sure. If you want to.

That's not who I was going to say. Since 1973, Al McCoy has been a broadcaster for the Phoenix Suns. Oh, yeah. Al McCoy is 88. It's still broadcasting. Incredible. 88. Unbelievable.

Like, unbelievable. Yeah. It's amazing. Since 1973, he's been broadcasting games for them and has been with that organization and it's now 88 years old. Still doing it. And how cool is that? Right. I promise you, especially that you, you ain't, you don't.

never see guys that old calling games again. I don't think. Yeah. I don't think. I don't think. I don't think you'll ever see guys. I think that's a bygone era. The Al McCoys of the world, the Vince Scullies of the world. It's hard for me to believe that guys are going to be 88 years old, you know, call the games, you know, that that that hometown guy, that guy that's been sonatas with the franchise for so many years, there's generations of faith. And, you know, that that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that's generations of fans. like maybe five generations. There's people with great grandkids that grew up listening to Hal McCoy, call games. It's crazy.

It's crazy to think about. I saw this tweeted out yesterday. He only missed one game. One game. New Year's Eve, 2005, because he was sick. He had an illness at the time. One game. Wait, wait, wait, hold on now.

It doesn't seem... It doesn't seem right. Does it? I got her from Twitter. It might be wrong. It might be some misinformation. But I saw it in a couple different tweets, so I feel good saying it. It's probably right.

These announcers don't miss games. They really don't. Yeah, yeah. You're right. That's true. Like, I grew up listening to Mike Gorman. These jokers do not want to get wellie pipped. I grew up hearing Mike Gorman do Celtics game.

Sean Greeny do on the radio. And those guys never miss games. And if like Gorman was out on TV, then Granny would be on TV a lot of the time. So it's just like these guys are iron men in the booth. I asked, there was one of those like really old, uh, broadcasters. And God, forgive me, I cannot remember who it was. I can't remember who it was. But when I was young covering games, I remember talking to him.

And I'm like, how do you, how do you get by? Like, how do you do it with your voice? How do you, you know, because you're like, Like doing this, you know, you're doing these pregame interviews, the coaches thing, and then you're doing these games, and it's just over and over again. You know, this was an older guy. And God, I can't remember who it was. It's going to drive me crazy.

That guy pulled out a box, all right? This is a tip for all of our listeners out there. If you ever, like, get a sore throat or you got something bothering you or whatever, this guy pulls out this box and he goes, this is how. And I was like, what is that? that. And it's a box. And on the box, it says, fisherman's friend. And I was like, what is that? And he's like, it's throat lozenges. And I was like, where do you get him? And he's like, get him at Walgreens. And I was like, what? I've never seen this in my life. It's like a white, it's like,

it's got like a fisherman in the front. It's called Fisherman's Friend. All right. So I went and I got him. oh they they taste like piss i mean they're terrible but and they're brown but it was like this broadcaster secret or whatever and so like in the winter yeah fishermen's friend and in the winter i can't remember which it wasn't al mccoy but it was somebody like that right and i remember them pulling out this like weird box of throat lozages because i was young and i went to Walgreens and I like bought some. I'm like, oh, these are disgusting. But they do

make your throat feel way better. Interesting. I might have to get some. I'm now, I'm super curious. Hey, I'll probably become an endorser for them. I should take back that they taste like piss. It's like what? I don't know.

But they work. There's going to be a huge bump in fishermen's friends sales. There really is. next couple days. Nobody has bought it. I mean, hell, I can't promise you. You might buy them for Walgreens. They have dust on them. I mean, hey, if you're listening to the show, buy an hour. It's going to be harder to get

than an Xbox Series X right now. They're going to be selling out everywhere. Yeah. But I don't know. I'll always remember that because it was just a strange thing. Got pulled out this weird box of throat losses. He's like, here's how. I'm going to get some and we're going to talk about it again Tuesday.

I'm going to do a recon mission and I'm going to try to find out. I'm going to try to remember who that was or if there is somebody famous for saying that. But I recall that, I mean, it's so many years ago now. Let's talk about the other side of that Phoenix thing. We've given them their flowers for sure. The Clippers, and you wrote about it. Let's just say on the game, there isn't that much to talk about it from the game outside of the brilliance of Chris Paul.

And that was truly the story of the game. that Clippers team I mean look I don't think they have anything to be ashamed of they knocked off Utah they got the six games in this if I just lined up what they had

what they were playing with and I said we're coming into next season there would be an argument as to whether or not that's a Western Conference playoff team truly there would be there would be an argument and so the fact that they were

in the West finals knocking off Utah and then playing to six games is rather impressive. For sure. Willowai Leonard. Yeah. It's a credit to Tailu. It's a credit to Paul George. It's a credit to those players on that team and the depth that they had.

And they're doing it. By the way, no one has ever mentioned to this. Or I know it's been mentioned, but not much. Well, they should have had Serge Baca, too. Like, that's a real. That's a guy that was just in a title run a couple of years ago, a guy that helps you be able to go small. These are real legitimate weapon to have.

And if you'd add him to the mix, too, along with Kauai Leonard, it's a different deal. And it's what they envisioned having. So I don't think they have anything to be ashamed of outside of the Patrick Pevelly play, which was, you know, Kev, I talked to you a couple weeks ago, or last week, about the broken nose thing, right? I said, look, I can speak from experience on this. about when you break your nose.

I can also, as you mentioned, as we mentioned during that, about how I'd gotten a lot of fights when I was a kid, I can also speak from experience about being a guy that runs his mouth too much. And there's rules to this, man. If you're going to be the guy that runs your mouth, and if you're going to be the guy

that lets everybody hear about it when you're successful and whatever else, you have got to be able to take it. That's the rules, man. Like you don't, you don't, get to just park at everybody and talk trash to everybody. And then when they do it, you act like a little bitch and start sucker punching people. That's not right.

That's not right. That's not the rules, man. Like, if you dish it out, you've got to be able to take it. That is a tale as old as time. And I've always liked Pat Bed, but he's dirtier than hell. We know he's dirtier than hell. And what he did at the end of that game, I know he apparently. apologize to Chris Paul today.

But I don't care. I don't care that he apologized about it. That was, he could have gotten really hurt, number one. He could have. And number two, that is such a lame move to push somebody from behind. Yeah, especially as hard as he did it. Like, that was a light push. When they can't defend themselves.

Yeah. They can't do anything about it. I mean, it's just, it's weak, man. Can you imagine if Chris Paul got seriously hurt from that? That was, well. Or even just sprained his ankle or hurt. or hurt his wrists. I mean,

come on. Like, it's just so dirty to do something like that. And like, it's nice that he, you know, said sorry,

sort of with his tweet. But I mean, what a garbage play. Like, that really, that really killed his perception. I'm serious. It did.

And I'll tell you what. I think something like that, like people bring up the Russell Westbrook court a lot. Pat, bad trick you all, right? He just runs around.

It does nothing. He tricked you all. This is going to stick with him too. You have the Westbrook thing talking about how he's an overrated defender. That's right. And now you get this. And this is one of the dirtiest things you can do after losing a playoff series, especially, like, it just hurts, you know, perception of the Clippers too. Because this Clippers team, the perception should be this is a tough roster, the ability to fight through adversity, selfless, guys in and out of the lineup, you know, still embracing and adapting and playing different roles depending on what the game in the series demands.

That's what it should be. have that Beverly thing happen and now people look at this team and maybe it'll change. But right now people look at this team and it hurts. It just sinks. I don't have any problem if he goes and he pushes him facing forward. I really don't. I get it. You snap, whatever. Yeah, but pushing in the back. Yeah. No, it's the pushing. It's the sucker punch. Yeah. That's what that is. Yeah. Yeah. But, and we'll see, we'll see what the Clippers do, you know, if they even were to bring it back, still under contract, but they'll be making some changes. the soft season, some tweaks.

Also tough, tough video for Frank Komensky. Tough video. Just tough. It's tough, Frank. Come on. Come on. Frank, Frank, we got to do a little more than what you did here. I mean, he was like,

Hey, hey, hold on. What's going on here? Come on, Frank. Come on, Mr. Beverly, please. Frank didn't want that smoke. Hey, hey, hey, that's uncalled for. That's what I feel. That's what I feel like.

That's like the little voice with Frank Komenzky. Hey, hey, come on. We're all friends. Mr. Beverly, please. We're just playing a basketball game here. Chris. Frank Kerminski,

be better. That's the only thing they got to feel. Two things. Nothing to be ashamed of except for their owner, Grappiek's groins and Pat Beverly pushing a guy in the back. Other than that, nothing to be ashamed for. Now, the Kauai Lenter thing, who the hell knows what to believe, right? You're already getting rumored reports out there.

Oh, he doesn't, he's not happy with the medical staff, or he's going to have to have surgery in the offseason, or we don't even, like, it's a damnedest thing. And I just bitched about this with the honest, but we don't. I have no idea what's wrong with Kauai Leder except for something with his knee. but I have no idea what happened to his knee. Like there was never. There wasn't an official report, but like it's been reported by myself and others that it was a sprained ACL. So I mean,

that's what it sounds like it was. But here's what I can add to that. Well, I'm seeing a lot of stuff reported like you said about not happy with the medical staff. My understanding is that what he's doing is no different than what he did in San Antonio. He just goes to his own doctors. And like that's that. Like, that's just the way it's going to be, you know, that he just doesn't show the certain medical records.

He just goes to his own people. And that's just the way it is. But I think there's an understanding that that's just the way it's going to be. I don't think there's any friction about it necessarily. I think everybody knows within what the injury is. It's an ACL injury, a sprained ACL. And it's not, you know, far as we know, maybe we, maybe we're wrong. Because here's the thing.

Here's the thing. We don't actually know. Who said it was a sprayed ACL? Yeah, you just hear things when you only actually. know when the clippers released that PR report or a team says exactly what it is when they do a news report with all the details like we don't know the honest we don't even know if they were if they did a test on it i don't believe so do we even know i believe it's like his own doctors from what i mean i'm sure he's some testing then you're relay then you're dependent upon him speaking which is a very

difficult thing to expect but you are expecting to hear like So he's telling people I spray my ACL? Like, again, if you don't know, we don't know. He could have, if he's not, if it's not the team that's doing the x-rays and administering and knows for sure what's wrong with the guy, you're just reliant upon whatever they say. There's wrong with him. Like, I still did this day, I was like, oh, yeah, he had a quad thing in San Antonio.

Like, I don't understand why it kept him out the whole time. I don't understand. I remember his quad was hurt. That's all I know. And I remember that there was that whole time period where San Antonio was like, we've cleared him to play like two months ago. You remember that? And then he got pissed and then he ended up, you know.

That was some weird drama then. But like I don't think, you know, as far as I can understand, maybe things change that it's not some big issue. And I think, you know, I had this line in the article where I'm like, nobody knows what's going on in Kauai Liner's head. Nobody knows. We didn't know in San Antonio. Didn't know when he was leaving Toronto.

Don't know now. But when people around the league, executives and agents talk about, well, what's going to happen with Kauai? He can become an unrestricted free agent this off season. He hasn't signed yet. It's weird.

He's not sitting on the bench. It's weird. The medical staff doesn't know. You know, he could, he's left the championship team before. He could leave anybody. People look at what others are thinking. And like it sounds like a team like Dallas will try to go for him.

It's been reported already that Miami, you know, has plans of going for him. So, you know, he'll at least care, Chris, have some options to look around. But I don't see why he wouldn't go back to the Clippers unless there's some other reason. And I think that's what people are. Especially when we don't know, we look for reasons, you know. Well, especially when they've just obviously decided to let him do whatever the hell he wants to do. Like, he did whatever the hell he wanted to do last year.

That were many reports about that, right? Rest when he wanted to show up to planes when he wanted to, you know, whatever. and now, like, we talk about player empowerment, like Kevin, like, that's outrageous. I don't care what anybody says. It's outrageous. I mean, for a team to agree to the fact that we're not always going to be privy to your health. Like, they're paying you $40 million. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, to agree to that, obviously that just shows. you're willing to do, you know, I mean, again, it's all bargaining. And they obviously had an understanding that this is just, these are the, these are the, these are the, these are the rules. If he's going to play for you, this is what he's going to do and whatever. But not even LeBron, like, has his own X-ray machine that only he knows the results from. You know what I'm like? It's just crazy. It's crazy.

And so you got a future plan. you added your article about kind of what their future looks like I am let me just say this as someone who just read the article not know I did not talk to you about any of this before I read your article once I read the part where you said he bought a $17 million mansion in March I was like shit he ain't going in here I know

I know all 17 million dollar you don't buy a $17 million mansion in Pacific Palisades if you're going to, if you might go somewhere in a couple months. And I didn't put this on the article because it just didn't read well, but that house was on and off the market for two years. And it started at $25 million. So like this was a house that was hard to sell taking two years. And so it's not like he, oh, he's making an investment in L.A. real estate.

The market's going boom right now. Going boom or not. These houses are hard to sell. So like if you buy a home. in L.A. And as I reported in there, it seems like he's not taking those helicopter round trip, you know, from San Diego to L.A., you know, like he did, you know, before Kobe Bryant passed away. Like, that was one of the turning points for him and a lot of guys to stop doing it or to consider stop doing it. So it sounds like he's not doing that anymore or not as often anymore.

So buying a home, 17.1 million. That signals that he intends to stay in L.A. a long time. Well, because you're buying a home closer because he was close to San Diego. Yeah. That was the big thing. Yeah. So now you're buying a house closer to where you've got to be every day. Yeah. And by the way, like in L.A., that's a great, that's a place that's easy to get to the practice arena too.

That's a super easy drive. Staples Center can be a little longer, but it's a perfect location for an NBA player who's going to live in L.A. for maybe four or five years. The other thing is, where the hell do you want to go? Nobody else is sign it up for letting you do how it. whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it. I'm sorry. I'm sure some teams,

some teams might, but, but, Pat Riley, Pat Riley ain't. You can't you sit Miami. You think Pat Riley's gonna be like, yeah,

yeah, do whatever you want. Oh, oh, you got hurt tonight. Okay. Uh, well,

let me know after you, uh, talk to Dr. Seuss or whoever you talk to. What's wrong with you? And we won't report anything. Talk to Sus. And you just come play whatever you want to play.

Dr. Dool. Like, what the hell? Like, guys don't get. don't get to do that. Like, that's not.

It might really just be Dr. Dennis, though. Like, his uncle. Yeah, yeah. So, who does? Yeah.

I don't, I don't understand the whole thing. But I'll tell you this. The way they've rolled out the red carpet and the fact that you told me brought a $17 million mansion. Like, that's three months ago. So what?

He's going to, he's going to move all his crap, move into a house. And then he's going to go play across the country. somewhere else. Yeah. It just doesn't make a sense.

It doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make sense. I stop breathing. And if he does do that, like either something blew up or like, what a dumb investment. Yes. So what a risky investment maybe,

really, I should say. Yeah. I, so I don't buy. I think Kaua Leder is going to be a clipper. Now, the George angle is very, very fascinating.

Because I think the, I think the Paul George stock has gone up a massive amount in one year's time. He got to perform as the best player on a team. And you saw him score 30 points and a half of a Western Conference Finals game. And if you look at it and you say, look, he was the best player on that team. And they knocked out the jazz. And they took Phoenix to six games.

My supporting cast and the guys I've got around would be better than that. Like, Paul George is a good value. He's still one of those guys that can be the best player on the court in the biggest games. Now, he's also going to be the guy that is nowhere close to the best player on the court in the biggest games, right? Like, you're going to get both sides of it. But there's only a few. there's only a few that you could say that guy was the best guy in a game that included other great players on it. And so I think there's, I think there's a lot of team.

I think you could, I think you could get way more for Paul George right now than you could have a year ago. I know that for certain. And I don't think that's crazy to believe. Especially if they were trading up. I mean, if the Damien-Lillard situation came to a point that he's demanding a deal, if Portland wanted to keep winning, you know, and not trade for younger pieces and picks and all that, it might be hard to beat a Paul George in a deal, two-way wing. I mean, say all you want. We talk about the downsides of Paul George.

He had the 24-second violation, some no-show quarters and everything. But when Paul George is at his best, I mean, it's remarkable what he can do and how smooth he looks just while doing it. The game looks easy for him. And in the eight games without Kauai, he averaged 30 points, 11 rebounds, six to six to six. And, you know, sure, the scoring efficiency was a little lower. He shot only 30% from three, only 80% from the free throw line. He had the two miss free throws. He had some rough moments.

But he played more minutes than anybody in the postseason so far. He played 42 minutes per game in those eight games for the Clippers. He was an Iron Man for this team. And he's the main reason why they even got to a game six, why they got through Utah. He is the main reason. So despite some of those downsides, dude, this guy is awesome. So for the clippers, I look at it two ways, Chris. On one side, you're right.

You could get a heck of a lot for him. And maybe there's a package that makes sense. Either a Dames type of package or maybe like Ben Simmons and way, way more, right? Maybe something like that makes sense to do. But keeping this guy isn't the worst thing in the world, though. Is it, Chris, it's not bad at all. If you have Paul George as your best player,

you can be good, possibly really good. Yeah. If you have Paul George as your second best player, you could be a great team. You know? Yeah. Like you do need, in order to win a title, you need somebody better than Paul George alongside Paul George.

Sure. That's my thing. And you do in Kauai. You do. He just wasn't available. And that's why, Chris, you know, with the clippers here, to me, the biggest thing isn't, you know, about Kauai. Like, you know, if he stays, it's not about trading Paul George, potentially.

It would be about what do you do with the rest of that team. You know, they had conversations for Kyle Lurie before the deadline. We'll see if that comes up again. I mentioned the idea of a sign and trade. Maybe you flip Luke Conard with another piece possibly. Beverly, maybe you go for, maybe it's not Lowry. Maybe you go for Demard de Rosen. Maybe you go for Lonzo Ball.

There's options for the clippers to make some tweaks here with their roster and elevate Kauai and George with those surrounding pieces. Like the clippers could get way better. Look, I'm a Conard fan. You have to move Conard. You can't have him on the payroll with that $64 million contract. You got to find a way, even if it means you got to give up a pick alongside it, and you don't get all that, you don't get as much in return.

You get the contract. If you're not going to play him big minutes, which Tailu seemed resigned to not playing a big minutes, then you move him elsewhere. He has more value elsewhere. He'll be 26 next season and he's a good player. It's just that doesn't work for the clippers for whatever reason. Well, and the two best players are wings.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and also though I do think it is like on the anti-Kinard side here, good offensive player, but he did get attacked quite a lot defensively and didn't always hold his own. So that's an area for him as a player. I get to get, I get to improve on defense to get minutes in the postseason. Like he's got to get in the gym and work on his defense, work on his agility, work on his strength. So he's not getting picked on out there. So I get off that contract, you can't overpay Reggie. You just can't.

Yeah, you got to be careful. It's going to be an overpay. I feel good for him. I'm glad he's going to make the boatload of money. He's going to get overpaid. That's why the Kyle Lari idea. The Kyle Lari idea, that is absolutely perfect. Now, I don't know.

Does Kyle want to go play with Kauai again? Maybe so. Maybe not. I don't know. We don't know. Maybe he wants to go to Miami with Jimmy Butler, his best friend in the league. Maybe he wants to go home to Philadelphia. We don't know.

Maybe Kauai wants to go with both of them. You don't know. I mean, who does? We don't owe. But I do think, like, if they run it back with Georgia Kauai, they got some build to do a round. But I don't think that these decisions, the Batum thing falls off, right? You mentioned that. Yep.

He'll be a free agent. Yeah, so that contract, which you have him. I know it's not much, but, I mean, you're falling off. And then they've got some guys that are going to fall off of the books. you try to find landing spots for some other guys, including Kinnard, and free up a little bit money. And then when you've got guys like that,

you'll inevitably be able to get some cheapo guys to sign there. You get guys at less than market value. I mean, that deal they got a Baca on was great. Isn't that the important thing we saw in this postseason, though? I mean, whether it was a Batum or Reggie Jackson, or a campaign or Bobby Portis. Some of these quote unquote fringe guys can be pretty damn important to your success in the playoffs. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Last thing before we get out of here. I watch your video, Kevin. Oh, Jesus. Don't sleep on the throwback big. The Turkish Alperin Shingoon. How about that for a pronunciation? Yeah, pretty good, Chris.

You want to watch the video, huh? I watched it. Yeah, that's how I wrote it down. You should see how I wrote it down to my notebook. I wrote S-H-E-N-D-Goon. That's phonetic. That's pretty good. I do phonetics my own way, too.

El Perrin-S-Ging-Goo. I don't know this stuff you see, like, on dictionaries and basketball offers. That doesn't make sense to me. I got to do it in the way that makes sense. Well, if you really saw it. You don't always write the titles. You really sold me on Don't Sleep on the Throwback Big. Oh, the tweet.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I don't do any of any of the tweets except my own, only my own. That's the headline on the ringer.com. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't sleep on the throwback big. On the YouTube, Chris, here's what we called it. The Al Perrin Shengoon scouting report. That's all it was.

What did you think about him as a player? How do you like Shengoon? I think I would love him if it was, 1993. So not to talk about Shund doing for too long. This guy, he is the epitome of the extinct player.

He really is. See, that's where I think we disagree here, Chris, because on as is, as is, you're right. Alper and Shengun, you know, for anybody who hasn't watched the video yet, he'll be a 19 year old rookie, 6-9, 610, big man, 240 pounds.

He's like a low post guy. He's got the spin moves, Chris, right? He's got touch with either hand. He can pass out of the post. And defensively, he and he has a lot of work to do. He's not oversized. Doesn't protect the rim at a high level. They call it the Turkish Greg Monroe.

Oh, God. Did you just go out of the top of the dome? Or you write that down. No, that's good. On the top by end. Not a bad comparison for who Shengun is today. But Chris, near 80% from the free throw line. And you saw some of the highlights in there,

have hit in those stepback jump shots, the fadeaways. Those aren't some one-off. They look lucky as hell to me. Nope. There's a heck of a lot more videos we could have put in there if we wanted to fill it up with a lot of those. There's a lot of those moments. It looked pretty good shooting the ball and workouts from three.

I think there's a chance that Shangoon could become a very, very good three-point shooter. And maybe he only becomes like Luis Scolo with a three. maybe that's what he becomes but he could also be like a modernized version of a Kevin Love type of player and I think with Schengen what Kevin Love? No what why why Chris why Chris I don't mean like what video did you I don't I don't mean like wait wait I don't mean like 26 27 point per game Kevin Love oh I mean like kind of like stop Kevin loved it. Style.

For the calves. And not this year is Kevin Love. Not Team USA, Kevin Love. Not also Kevin Love necessarily, but also not 2021 Kevin Love either. Somewhere in the middle. Okay. Like the qualities of a great post player who can shoot a bit, who can pass. I don't see how you don't like this guy, Chris.

I'm serious. He's a great passer. A great post player. player. Because because he's not an athlete. He's going to get played straight off the court every time. And nobody posts anybody up anymore. We'll see. You got to guard the frigging Jonathan Isaacs of the world and the, you know, like that, that that that's who the fours are now in the NBA. The Evan Mobley is going to get drafted, right? Chris, can he become a bonus? DeMontas abominas. Can he become 85% as good as DeMontas? to Sabonis? No, in fairness, I just watched a five-minute highlight video of him. But the jumpers, I mean, they look luckier than hell that they even went in.

Let's see. 18 years old, Chris, he won Turkish League MVP. It's the one of the third. Some people say the second best, but probably the third best league in the world. And he won MVP at 18 years old. I don't know. I just think the post-up power forward is, that's an extinct. guy. You might as well

draft a triceratops. We'll see if you can develop a three. We'll see. I guess we'll see if you get developed a three. I wasn't persuaded. I love your videos. Thank you. I just watched this guy and I didn't think.

But I'll tell you what, Chris, there are a lot of people around the league who feel exactly the same as you. There are. There are a lot of people who are like, yeah, you're really drafting this guy in the lottery. But there are a lot of people who look at him like, I think he should be a top 10 pick. I talked to an executive recently.

who's like, I have them seven on my board. Damn. That guy's getting fired. It's, hey, look, the title, the title was, don't sleep on the throwback big. I won't, Kevin. I'm snoring on him. I ain't sleeping on him. I'm snoring on him.

Yokeish and B. Shingoon. The big man is back, Chris. The big man is back. Shen goon. If this dude turns out to be amazing. You know what? Oklahoma City should draft.

I know. Shungoon and Poku. This should be your dream. Shingoon and Poku. Well, I mean, I still have yet to name the next bright future team,

Chris. That'll happen after the draft. So we'll see. There's going to be a new bright future blank. Could be OKC. They're a contender for it. You know that. I don't know.

They might be too easy, though, with all those picks. Is that cheating? Is that cheating? Yes. All those picks? Yeah. feels like an easy one.

When you have 37 draft picks over the next five years, you'd hope you got a bright future. You would hope so, right? Last thing, are you going to do anything? Do they, do they shoot off fireworks in the Northeast? Yeah. Like, I mean, at homes. Yeah, people do. Oh, you do?

Oh, we don't. We don't, but like people around the neighborhood. When you were growing up, did you shoot them in your backyard? I don't think we ever once did, yeah. Oh, you didn't? No. People do it in your neighborhood, though? Yep.

Oh, okay. I didn't know. Not as often anymore. People don't do it much anymore. It used to be loud back in the day. It used to be very loud. And now it's, you know, maybe one house in the neighborhood. Kind of weird how that changes.

Hmm. I don't know. Is it busy in your neighborhood? A lot of fireworks? Well, so. What's going on for you this weekend? Yes, there will be a lot of fireworks. But we will go down to my buddy, Gary Parrish, who writes for CBS.

See, Parrish lives in Mississippi. Across the border. Oh, my God. They shoot off everything there. Really? They don't care. They don't care about anything. We may see a real bomb go off in Mississippi.

Nobody cares. They shoot off fireworks when it's not July 4th down to Mississippi. So we'll go down to his house and blow a bunch of crap up, I'm sure. It's the Wild West down there, brother. Yeah, Chris, I mean, whether this fireworks or not for me, I look forward to the fourth of July seeing some family that'll be great seeing some people for the first time and over a year now so i'm i'm looking forward to doing that with my mom uh so i'm looking forward to it man i hope you have a great fourth too and everybody listening who listens in the united states

have a cookouts shooting off fireworks whatever you're doing this weekend have a safe and wonderful uh fourth of july and we may very well i guess by the next time we talk we're going to have mb a finals participants yeah we'll know who they are and so we'll be talking NBA finals and Turkish basketball players by Tuesday. Tuesday night. And on Saturday, Chris, doing the ring around NBA show with Jay Kyle Alman. So that night we'll be talking about Bucks Hocke's game six.

That'll be fun. Doing it live on Green Room as well. Really? Yeah, after the game. Look at you, Mr. Green Room. You're a regular Ariel Hawani. I saw that story where they hired him to do Green Room stuff. I was like, how cool is that?

I'm looking forward to that before and after fights, right? Yeah. And Connor fights on Saturday night. Okay. Connor McGregor. Ooh, it's on Saturday night. After recording the pod.

Yep. Have to tune in for that. Yes, you're going to have to fire that one up. All right. We'll talk to everybody next week. Everybody have a great weekend. Kevin, I'll talk to you Tuesday. Have a great weekend, everybody.