The Mismatch - The Bulls’ and Kings’ Win-Now Moves Ultimately Amount to Losses. Plus: Jrue Holiday Is the Bucks’ Defensive Key, the Celtics Are Back on Form, and LaMarcus Aldridge Retires.

Episode Date: April 16, 2021

Verno and KOC start off this Friday talking about the Bucks continuing their run in the second half of the season and how Jrue Holiday could be the piece that allows them to compete with the two other top teams in the East (0:30). Then they discuss a league report that says the injury rate is actually down 6 percent this season, contrary to popular belief, but doesn’t address how who is getting injured has affected the quality of the product (8:17). After that they get into news from around league over the past couple of days, including Steph Curry going on an unbelievable eight-game tear (19:34), the Celtics continuing their hot streak by whooping the Lakers (22:30), and Deandre Ayton’s big game against the Kings (31:15). Then they lament the failed win-now moves made by the Chicago Bulls and Sacramento Kings that have ultimately amounted to a bunch of losses and, potentially, uncertainty in their star players' minds that those organizations will ever be stable enough to win (37:33). Finally, they touch on Luka Doncic’s magical game-winning shot against the Grizzlies (53:00) and LaMarcus Aldridge’s retirement (58:20). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On R2C2, C-Sabathia and Ryan Rucco guide listeners through everything going on in the MLB, NBA, and NFL. They also talk to friends, athletes, and celebrities about the world of sports and much more. Check out R2C2 with C-Sabathia and Ryan Rucco on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me see does every Friday from the ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'O. Kahneman O'Connor, A.K.K.K.O. Kavanaugh. It's Friday. What's up?

It is Friday, and we've got a bunch of stuff to talk about. Let's start with last night. Janice came back, so that was nice to see a star back in a lineup because there have been a lot of stars missing a lot of games this year. But he was back and Drew Holiday put the handcuffs on Trey Young. And, you know, it's kind of. Kind of felt like one of those like, okay, here is the difference between at the moment who was the third seed and who was the four seed. And so if you want to see the drop off between the two, and I know the Hawks don't have everybody back yet, but also when Janus is in that lineup, that Buck's team is going to be right there as one of the favorites.

and we'll talk about a couple other teams that have certainly been very good as of late, but it's just good to see him back on the lineup because unfortunately that has been a story of the year, which is the extreme superstars

missing a lot of time. Yeah, so it was nice to see Janice back and Drew Holliday had himself a heck of a night of the defensive end of the floor, according to tracking data held trade a one-for-nine shooting with five turnovers when Drew Holliday was the primary defender. against him and you know tracking data it's not always the fact that it doesn't always detail

exactly what happened in a play but he made life on tray and it is illustrative of that and it could be seen just by watching the game with your own two eyeballs i mean chris isn't this sort of the appeal with the milwaukee bucks that you have all these different types of weapons for different types of matchups like drew holiday is that guard stopper and you do wonder if it it's not as big a deal with Philly, but it is a big deal with the Nets. Brooklyn, yeah. If you are going to face them that you could deploy Drew Holiday on either Kyrie Irving or James Hardin.

And it's not about shutting those guys down. It's about making those guys inefficient, right? About making them, if they're going to get 28 points that you want them to do it on 25 shots. Right? You're making them go seven for 28 and then get some and then pair up the free

throws with it. And sometimes throwing them off rhythm. Yeah. The offense gets thrown off. That's right. And he's the kind of guy that there's very few of those in the league.

And interestingly enough, Simmons is another one. So two of the highly ranked teams in that Eastern Conference actually do have elite level defensive guards that you can deploy at this offensively powerful Nets team. For sure. And that's going to make things very, very interesting come playoff time when that comes.

I mean, people often talk about, you know, who stops Juell Lombid, you know, which big man can stop Jowell and Bid, not a lot of talk about, well, who can stop Kyrie Irving, who can stop James Hard. And like when you talk about a Netsixir series, but the bucks are that team sort of in the middle of that conversation. They're the third team right now in the East. Well, well, they have, they have Janus, the big guy who can stop multiple positions. And they have Drew Holliday, the smaller guy, who can also stop some bigger guys. Chris Middleton, who's a very good defender in his own right, they do have those players

that can match up against those different types of bigs. And, you know, not that Janus would be on M. B, but you could see it happen in a pinch. You know, maybe if you do have Janus at the five or some stretch or whatever, So Milwaukee, they have sort of been the, they're the old flavor. People are looking at the Nets now. People are looking at this, you know, Sixers team with Embed even better than before. But Milwaukee with Drew Holiday, man, he's not the big name, but he could be the difference for them. Well, and I happen to have the, I had T&T still on last night when they were doing the walkoff interview.

And it was with Brooke Lopez. That's who they were talking to. And so. Your favorite player, Chris. Yeah, Shaq. He was good last night. Jack and Charles were asking their questions, but one of the things that they talked about at length and Lopez talked about was this whole idea that they have been very overlooked. They are the old flavor.

But his point was, and I think theirs was too, that he thinks there could be a significant difference in playoff basketball for the bucks this year because. of Drew Holiday and because of PJ Tucker. That's kind of what they brought up. And then Lopez talked about it. He's now been in the league a long time. He's been on a lot of different teams. But I am persuaded by the idea that things, if you want to convince me,

things are going to be different for the bucks in playoff basketball this time around because they have Holiday and because they have Tucker and those kind of veterans that can really log minutes for you. I am. I am persuaded by that. I buy that. And, you know, this whole season, we've talked about this.

Milwaukee's experimenting. They're using the regular season as essentially like pre-playoffs, you know, pre-prepping for the playoffs with trying different schemes on offense, having a guy in the dunker spot rather than having four-out spacing. They're having defense more switching more frequently, especially in lineups where Brooke Lopez isn't on the floor. And, you know, not a lot of a sample here, but. When you do have Janus and you do have PJ Tucker on the floor with Holiday and Middleton

and some combination, they're switching way more screens than they ever have before. And sometimes it's not effective. Sometimes they're screwing up and the timing's not right in the defensive end and guys are getting open opportunities because they're still learning it. But the fact that they're doing that now and, you know, ironing out those mistakes and those wrinkles that they have on defense, that could really benefit them from playoff time, especially with PJ Tucker back now. And if PJ Tucker is able to bring all his experience and all his intelligence from all

his years doing that with the Houston Rockets at a very, very high level, plugging that in with Janus at the five and Tucker at the four and then, you know, miss mix and match, you know, the other guys on the floor, they can be that team that can shape shift. Yeah. To play different ways. You know, and they, those two, they bring a, they bring a level of toughness. they bring a level of intensity. They're like winning play players, those two.

Both Holiday and PJ Tucker, when the going gets tough, those guys are, they're there for it. And you juxtapose that versus what they've had going on. I mean, come on, man, Eric Blitzell got punked out by Terry Rozier, for God's sake. That's what they've been going to the playoffs with. You know what I mean? But that is the significant difference is that you do need some rough and tumble guys. You need some guys that are tough and that are there for the fight. And there's no question.

Tucker and Holiday are that. And I do think that it could very well lead to a very significant upgrade in their performance in the postseason. Playing off of that, I do want to mention we talked about this on Tuesday about how the Jamal Murray thing and the James Wiseman thing, we're unfortunately going to highlight injuries. And the fact that there were an immense amount of games and a lot of minutes logged for Murray in a very short amount of time. In the midst of Denver playing six games in eight days time, there have already been articles since we spoke about injuries and whatever else. And I was fascinated to see. The Baxter Holmes one on ESPN, right?

Yeah, there was the Baxter Holmes one. And then the NBA came out and said the injury rate is down. this year. They say that the rate of players needing to miss games because of injuries is down from last season and within the normal range for what the league is seen over the last five seasons. League data shows that player injury rate this season is down about 6%. Even though, and I think this is a major point, several marquee players, including LeBron, Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Joel Embed, James Hardin, and most recently,

Jamal Murray have dealt with injuries in the recent weeks. Also, and I do think that that is a big part of this, Kev, is that it's who got injured this year that is making this a huge topic. And look, I just named all these stars. Think about that. Guess what? We also lost the rookie of the year and we lost the second pick in the draft in Jay's Web. So, I mean, it's not like we've lost the superstars and the big time rookies this season. And so it does kind of highlight.

Now, I would say that, okay, that's fine. You could say the injury rate is down. But overall, but guess what? These stars, they're the guys that play the most minutes. You're also not having practices. You're also many cases, many cases, not even having a shoot around. So you're not having shootarounds, you're not having practices. Like, there's a lot of things that are going on this year that are not normally going on.

Also, in a league of 400 and some players, 147 have missed time for COVID protocol. So that's over a third of the league, you know, has missed time this year, have been in the safety protocols. And so, I don't know. That's a crazy amount, dude. I know. It's wild. I know, 147.

Yeah. Unreal. I mean, interestingly enough, I mean, yeah, there's teams, the Celtics have lost the most by a decent margin. They have lost the most player games to COVID protocol this year. But 147 is the number. I mean, it is crazy. And, you know, on this. note about the NBA saying the injury rate is down overall. Jeff Stotz, who runs a great,

great website, in street clothes where he tracks and analyzes injuries and all that. He said since the 0506 season, there have been about an average of three in-season ACL tiers per season. This year there's been four. Jamal Marys is the fourth. And he said the highest number was seven back in the 2012, 2013 season. That's the year when Rajan Rondo, Barbosa, Lou Will all tore their ACLs. So at four right now, it's not too much higher than the three, you know, than the average. It's well within the range margin forever there. So I mean, it's it's very, very hard to, to connect, you know, the amount of games with, you know,

player injuries and all that. But with that said, though, the way I look at it, and I think, I think this is fair. I'm curious about your thoughts, Chris, is the NBA for a long time was talking about, like with health and safety in terms of limiting injury risk, having more time between games for a while that was the conversation. And then suddenly it can't be that way. And I wonder now moving forward with the NBA, will they revert back to that?

Because it sounds like we could be having another short and off season. Well, maybe not though, because if you start the season again in mid-October, you're having another short and off season. But you go back to the normal schedule though. Yeah. And here's why, here's the reason they will is because, okay. So if you take a step back and you say they put out this article saying that injuries are even down a little bit or whatever, despite the fact that I would contend, A, you have a tremendous amount of superstars that are ones that got hurt.

And it stands to reason that the guys that are playing the most minutes are at the greatest risk to get hurt. So you've had a lot of those big names get hurt. B, you are not having your shootarounds and your practice times and all your other basketball like you normally would. So there's another thing. And C, you've got guys sitting out games all the time. I mean, so yeah, your injuries are down, but you've also got a problem here where you've got a bunch of guys. And it's not highlighted as much because as a, as a. As a father, like there are tons of kids that my son goes to school with that when they get, when it gets to Christmas time, they will ask for tickets to go see Kevin Durant or LeBron James or Steph Curry when they come to town.

And sometimes you're a parent, you spend a $500 for a family of four to have tickets to that game. And it hurts when those players aren't there. That's the big moment for that kid. and I don't want to get all sappy about, oh, it's all for the kids. But as that is what the NBA does survive on fandom. And that is not highlighted this year because there aren't people in the stands. And you don't have that pressure that you normally would if you're going to an opposing arena to perform that night. Because there are in many cases 17,000 people that paid.

And a lot of them are there because you're. there and you're going to be playing tonight. So that pressures off. And then, in addition to that, the national TV thing, which is guys taking off. And we just had this happen, this huge matchup, right? We're going to have Philly in the nets. And Kevin Durant stopped playing in the game, right? And so you have national TV.

And so the reason I, and it's a long-winded way of saying the reason it's going to go back, Kev, is because, A, they cannot have those stories of guys sitting out. in these opposing arenas all the time, like they have this year, because it will matter, because fans are going to be there. And the other thing is, they will step in and they will say, we can't have our marquee players not playing in national television games. And so their cost of doing the season like this has been guys sitting out. And it has hurt the in-person product, which is an...

big a deal, but it has hurt the TV product, which is the only reason they're doing this in the first place. Yeah. Isn't this kind of the challenge for the NBA now? Because you, on one hand, you need to make the regular season more meaningful. So players have more reason to play. And so fans are getting what they're paying for, what they're investing their time into, what families are sitting down the couch for, going into the city, see a game for,

spending $500, like you said, for a fun night out. You know, on one hand, you have to do that. On the other hand, you know, I think Mark Cuban sort of alluded to this because of the playing tournament and the fact that the games do matter more for some teams and that there's more pressure for guys to play instead of getting rest that with the condensed schedule that guys are maybe at an increased injury risk. So like there's a push and pull between making sure that star players are available as often as possible, but also making sure that they are as healthy as possible. but also making sure that they are as healthy as possible so they do not miss extended time. And, you know, it's a difficult balance for the NBA. And I look forward to, you know, seeing how things develop over the next decade. Because let's not forget here.

When Adam Silver first proposed that when the NBA first proposed the play in tournament, it also came with a proposal for an in-season tournament. Remember that? that has been brushed away, not really part of the conversation anymore. But very clearly, that is part of Silver and the NBA League office's vision for the future, is to have something that's very meaningful in the middle of the NBA season. And whether that ever happens or not remains to be seen, but it's clear that the NBA is trying to create more meaning,

which would give fans more reason to see games and players more reason to play. But that could also, you know, increase. the load on players. And depending on where you fall on that, it might depend simply if you're on the team side or not on the team side. It's just exasperated this year. I think it'll be fine when we get back to a normal season next year. You're not playing six games in eight days. This is ridiculous. It is. It is ridiculous. The Miami's in the middle and Memphis is in the middle. They're going to play like seven games in 10 days. It's ridiculous. It is. I mean, Who is supposed to be able to make it through that unscathed?

That's like an AAU tournament schedule. Yes. You know, it's just too much, too much. It's too much. You know what I mean? Let's get to some other stuff that took place. They need to change that next year. And like that's why the mid-October start is likely.

Yes. Also probably important despite the shortened off season again. It's much better to have a shortened off season and get this thing back to normal where you're not, they weren't even playing three and four nights. they're playing six and eight now one one quick other thought though to me the easy solution is a november start i know you're a little bit off from getting on to on track to october but at least you give yourself one more year to evaluate do we want to push this to december do we want to push it back to october is a middle ground where it keeps the normal offseason length but

it also gives you flexibility moving forward to make the change and you can still have a normal length of schedule. You could have the season end in July instead of June. You can forget about that. You can forget about that. It sounds like it'll be mid-October. They're doing mid-October. They're going to wedge that thing in. The M.E.A. got scared off. They want to do October. A couple other things from last night. The Steph Curry crazy run continues. Oh, my God. You know, they're 500 team. And you just see it's every night now recently. It's like 35, 50, 33, 42, on and on. And I will say, I saw, I noticed when I was looking through stuff this morning,

the three-point attempts were extreme last night, Kevin. So in terms of what we were talking about the other day, he put up 13 of them last night in their win against Cleveland. But again, it was another 33 points in. 34 minutes for Steph Curry. And as I mentioned, this run that he is on. If you go back, this is just April, okay, since we're at April 16th right now, 36, 37, 41, 32, 32, 38, 53, what in the hell?

Chris, don't take Steph and Curry for granted. Hold on. I got to go pull this up. All right. So what is he? He's averaging 39. Yeah, in eight games. For the month, shooting 48% from three on 13.4 attempts from three per game. 39 points per game. 39 points.

Chris, the last four games since April 10th, averaging 15.5 three-pointers per game. 15.5. I want to see it higher. Oh, my more. One more. You know, he's not that far off. If he can, if he could somehow get that, he's got to get one percent higher on the field goal to have another 50, 40, 90. But at this volume, I mean, to be shooting almost 50 percent from the field and 42 percent from three for the season at the volume that he gets. He's got to run around all the time.

39 points per game. That's insane. That is insane. It's beautiful. It's not like the sample gets bigger. It's eight games now. If he averages, like, there's a world where he averages 40 points a game for a month. It's not that crazy, dude.

He could think that could happen. at this point. Which is just... The last four games? Outrageous. This guy's obscene on the court. It's something else to watch us. Absolutely obscene.

So the step thing continued last night. The Celtics have gotten going, Kevin. Celtics have gotten going in a really nice way for them. And Jalen Brown was just absolutely off the charts last night. I know you tweeted about it, but this has been kind of the last couple of weeks. We've talked a lot about how much Tatum has turned up and how great he has been. In fact, he was the reigning Easter conference player of the week. But last night, it was one of those moments where you see them play the Lakers and you think, you know,

it's not just if Tatum goes off, you know, they're going to be a good shape. and if he doesn't, they're dead. Yeah. They've got another guy that at least we saw last night, a great example of he could be the one that goes really big in a game. And having two of those guys is a much different world than having one of those guys. Gives you a chance. Yep.

Gives you a chance. And that's the thing with the Celtics team. And we've talked about it. We just talked about how this is a weird year with so many missed games. They've had the most games missed, though, to COVID-Provert. protocols. I don't really care too much about what happened earlier in the season. I don't when it comes to evaluating what's going to happen moving forward. Like this is a different Celtics team than what we saw previously. So it's it's now a matter of can they sustain this? You know,

can they keep this up with the ball movement like Robert Williams didn't play last night? But I love, I love the time Lord fit with those starters just being able to dump the ball to him and how quick he makes decisions on the floor. Sometimes when he's underneath the rim, and it's just he grabs an offensive rebounds and just immediately, decisively, finds a guy outside or finds a cutter.

It's the same thing with Luke Cornett. I can't believe I'm saying that. Luke Cornett. But Luke Cornett looks pretty good with the bench unit with Romeo Langford out there and some of those guys. Like, it's a good unit. And it just,

it feels like a different team. Nobody would, I tell you this, you couldn't find a Celtic fan that would, say, all right, if the Bulls called today and said, we'll give you a Tice for Cornet. You couldn't find a Celtics man that would give up Cornett for Tice. I think

hilarious. I think, I think you were seen some, oh yeah, exactly. You would have had some Selvix fans who were happy to give up Tice, but they'd be like, for Cornett? That would be the response. That's what I mean. Time Lord minutes, but for Cornett, but it's working out, man. Like Cornett's shooting and the quick decision making, like I mentioned

with Time Lord passing, it's impressive. And like I said, This feels like a different Celtics team. And how can they sustain it? I don't know. Will they sustain it? I don't know. But I feel pretty good about where they're at. And I think about when Evan Fournier comes back, he's going to be coming back to a team that's moving the ball, it's crisp with its actions, moving the ball side to side, playing together.

And adding a shooter like Fornier who can hit threes for you, who can pull up from mid range, get to the rim a little bit. it makes them very interesting, Chris. I mean, you know, where are you at with them? There, I think it was, I think they're, potential. I think they're going to end up at four. After all things are said and done, you end up at four. I would say a couple things. Yes, they have gotten going.

They have, I think, presented, rather not them, he individually has, sometimes there's excuses and sometimes there's reasons. and you can decide, you can delineate between them for yourself. But when Tatum says, I have been messed up by this COVID thing and I've been taking an inhaler. And I've never taken an inhaler in my whole life. That's not an excuse. That's a reason. Exactly.

You know what I mean? Like so if we're saying why wasn't Jason Tatum or why hasn't he been having, you know, the season that we've kind of expected him to have. And even, you know, you had chronicled on an ISO situation. You know, we had kind of thought when we saw Tatum the tail half of last year and then the bubble, it's like, okay, this dude's moving into a different stratosphere. And then it didn't happen this year in that way. And you question like, why? And I do think that is a, it is more than a legitimate reason as to why that they would have.

that he would have not had the season maybe that we would have expected because when the guy says I'm taking an inhaler and I've never taken an inhaler in my life. That makes a big difference. And as I mentioned, fair is fair. They have lost more games than anyone, I believe. The Celtics are first. The Mavericks are second. The Raptors are third this year. And it's by a pretty significant margin.

I mean, as I mentioned earlier, there have been 147 players missed time for COVID protocols. Player days, that is 1449 player days. But the Celtics have lost more. So Celtics are number one and then the and then the Mavericks are number two in terms of games, miss player games miss the celtics uh okay so i just said mabs are 118 the celtics are a tick under 140 so you're talking about 138 probably yeah roughly yeah it's a lot i mean 138 games yes extreme so i do that's why i say i can i if you want to convince me that they're this team that they are right now that this is a lot more indicative

of what they are than what they were for the first 50 games of the season, I buy it. Yeah. I think so too. And we'll see how they sustain it. They could always fall back and regress to what they were before. But this just seems like a different team. They're nine and three since the trade deadline. And they have the fourth best net rating in basketball since the deadline.

Maybe things change. And maybe they fall off the rails again. And people are talking about where is this team? What is this team? But they look different. That's all I'll say. and it's worth monitoring that they could be the sleeper of the east last year. We saw Miami go all the way to the finals and upset their way there.

If there's a team that were to do it this season, Boston would be the team that I'm looking at most right now. And I wouldn't pick them over Brooklyn. I wouldn't pick them over Philly or Milwaukee. But upsets happen. When you have those two guys who can go off any night, upsets can happen. This is what I would be rooting for.

I will be rooting for. and I think this is going to actually happen. Brooklyn ends up with the best regular season record this year. They don't seem to care too much about getting that. No, but I'll say, I'll just say they do. Okay. Let's say they do. That's my, I'm giving you my dream scenario.

Okay. All right. That they get one. I think when it's all said and done, Boston's going to be four and Miami's going to be five. So we get a first round, Miami, Boston, and the winner of that goes and plays Brooklyn. Meanwhile, it's Sixers, Bucks, MBEV versus Yonis. That would be a dream second round that is absolutely plausible. I could totally see that happening.

In fact, I do think, I think the Celtics will end up for, and the, and the, he will end up five at the end of this. And then I don't know, six through ten. You know, we'll see. We'll see Miami's lost two in a row. I know. You know, Knicks are winning games, baby.

I know. I'm just saying when it all, when we play the whole thing out, we're going to look up at the end of the year and the top five that we said were the top five and everybody said of the top five are going to end up with the five best records. We'll see about Miami. I mean, I think they'll end up five or six.

I mean, I don't see them staying in seven. But we'll see. Atlanta's been playing well. New York's been playing well. It's possible. Those teams aren't as good as Miami, though. You know that. Yeah, I agree.

You know, standings are tight. I'd pick Miami too, but we'll see. The other thing that took place last night is a big DeAndre Aiton game, but more importantly, when you check the standings this morning, and I feel like this has not, it's really gone under the radar this year that Phoenix is 40 and 15.

It has. I know that that, I feel like because they're in first, the jazz obviously have been omnipresent in conversation, but how much, I don't feel like the suns on a regular basis. In many cases, it's kind of out of sight out of mind.

They never really, they certainly don't get on national TV much at all. And they are in second place in the Western Conference with a crazy, record. I mean, 40 and 15 is... That's a 60 win pace, Chris. A 60 win pace. Yeah, 82 game season. That's 60 win pace. Which is crazy. 59.6 to be specific for anybody who needs decimals.

Right. But if it's a 60 win pace and yet I don't feel like... I don't think the average fan has an awareness that they're 40 and 15. Well, Chris, those fans aren't listening to our pods. They're not reading the ringer.com with Suns features and videos. I know. I know. I know like our part, we love the Suns. Someone tweeted me last night that I should have a like an only sons fans.

Only sons. Only son's fans. Not bad. I don't. I mean, you can probably five five people to pay for it. You know what I mean? I mean, if that, what's the one? What's the chick's name?

Come, what did she say? What's the girl that got famous from Dr. Phil? I don't know. Oh, come on. Oh. You know what I'm talking about? What's that girl's name? They said she made like a million dollar.

Meet me outside girl. Yeah, she has like a new name now, right? Catch me outside. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That girl, you made like a million bucks at like two seconds. Good for her. Or whatever, right?

I have so I'm saying, if she could make a million, you could probably find five guys to give you five bucks. and make a couple hundred. Yeah. You put it into Dogecoin. Only tell him, it put it into Dogecoin. I wish I started this back in January or February.

To the moon. A little late here, but that's beside the point. But we're not late on the Phoenix Suns, though, are we, Chris? We're early. No, we're early adopters. Dude, I'll tell you this. As good as I thought that they were going to be this year,

and I did think they were going to be really good. they are, as of right now, one game back from Utah, they could end up with the number one seed in the Western Conference. I feel like that is not a thing right now. We could look up and by the time we're doing Tuesday's show, they could be in first place in the Western Conference. And then you would see a barrage of Sun's features. And, you know, it's been great.

Michael Bridges has been great. You're going to see all kinds of it. But I don't feel like it's been nearly as big a story as a team that has sucked for 15 years being the two seed. I don't know. I mean, like Woads just had Bridges on his pod. It's not like Zach Loew hasn't talked about the sons on his pod or wrote about him in 10 things or throughout the season. But I think your point is they're not being talked about like on the mainstream shows like first take, you know, it's quite as much. Or even like when you're watching TNT.

It's not like, you wouldn't know. You hear, and I just feel like, you know, look, I take in a tremendous amount of NBA information

every day of my life. And so I'm scanning, I'm scanning through all kinds of websites and I watch all kinds of programming. And they, like, I do hear a lot about the jazz. I do.

I don't hear, I don't hear about the suns much. You know, you know what I'd love to see? And this is an idea I'm putting out there for anybody who wants to take it. I don't have the time. time for it. But you know how during like, like, during like a U.S. presidential election year,

they have like TV time, like, you know, amount of times like so-and-so candidate's name is said. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Versus so-and-so candidate's name. I'd love to see that for like NBA topics. Like how many minutes are spent on the Phoenix Suns compared to the Utah Jazz versus the clippers versus the Nuggets, like a Western conference look. You know what I mean? I misunderstood. So when they, yeah, at the end of a debate, they chronicle how much time was talking about homelessness. And because sometimes we'll get a tweet saying,

you guys really didn't spend a minute on this. It's like people listen for it. And I'd love to see the data behind it. You know, like what did we spend the most minutes on during the season? Like, I'd love to see it for ourselves internally. And I'd love to see it from other programs too. I will say we get complimented a lot about hitting a massive amount of things as compared to, I don't know what people normally take in.

But that I do have an awareness that the major topics around are going to be the major teams, right? So you're going to hear a ton about the big markets and the stars and their teams, you know, more so. We try to hit as many as we possibly can, given whatever is going on that particular week or since we have last spoke a few days prior to. And this is sort of the reason, you know, like with the ringer, they want to do ringer and be university with me, Jay Cowell. man and Jonathan Charks is to have a pod specifically focused on some of those younger guys that may not get as much of like an in-depth conversation

on, you know, our show or other shows. Because like there's so much, there's so much else to talk about. Like, we do talk about it. But we're not going to spend 15 minutes on Poku, you know? No. And there's... Or three. Maybe not two or three. I did make an eight-minute video though, Chris.

I know you did. I couldn't believe it was that short. We have that rigor university so that you could talk about these guys. I think there is a lot of wisdom in that because the truth of the matter is if the standard is, and it's not across the board, but the standard is, yeah, typically the teams that have very high draft picks that people would like to hear about their development, they're not any good. That's why they got to draft so high high. you know, the year before.

The reason you get Anthony Edwards is because you suck the year before. And on and on. Generally, if you've got a top 10 pick on your team, you probably don't have a good team. Now, that has changed more recently because the Hornets were good this year. You know, Pelicans have been okay. The Grizzlies have been okay. Like, those are teams that got top two picks last year.

Wiseman, you know, the Warriors through those circumstances, got that pick. around a 500 team. But yeah, like you're not going to hear about friggin Isaac Acoro because I don't know any shows outside of Cleveland

that are going to spend a lot of time on analyzing how the, how the calves have been, you know? Well, I mean, maybe we should. Darius Carlin's been pretty nice.

You know, I was looking at it this morning. I was laughing about this. They are not far out of 10. No, they're not. And the reason I was looking at that is because,

I talked about this on Tuesday after seeing them in person. Kevin, I told you, I said, this team, there's something. This ain't right. And I'd seen Chicago. And then they got their ass kicked by Orlando. And now Levine's out. In the Wendell Carter revenge game. And yeah.

And now Levine's out. This is a nightmare to make the deal that they did and then have it play out this way. And I know you can look at it long term. but they made win now moves and instead they're going to lose now and now they're going to lose even more because they've just built their whole team around this 30 points per game that Levine scores and now you're just going to extract that from the lineup. They're in they're in big trouble.

You know what? Like you said, this could be for the best long term. you fall into the lottery, maybe you get lucky, end up with the first picker, the fourth pick, who knows what happens on the other night. No, no,

I bet the trades could be. I know, like, I know, but I'm saying like long term, I'm saying first. Like, it could be for the best.

Mm-hmm. But considering the fact that one of the reasons why you made this deal to win now is because Bradley Beale's not the only free agent in 2022. Zach Levine is too.

And Zach Levine is going to be a guy that, A lot of teams would love to have on their roster. And so if you're Chicago, you better start winning soon. That's one of the reasons why you make that deal is to build a winner around Zach Levine, a player that you want to keep in Chicago long term. And so to your point, Chris, like, this is worrisome. Yeah.

It could be for the best if you get Kate Cunningham. Like, that would be awesome. Like, wow, what a perfect fit Cade Cunningham would be. But there's such a small percent chance of that happening that you don't know that. that's actually the path that you're going to go down. This could be a very, very bad beginning for what they had planned for. And it already is a bad beginning. I am not casting aspersions, but I am going to state a point of fact.

And the point of fact is this. Daniel Tice left the Boston Celtics and they have gone to the moon. Daniel Tice put on a Bulls jersey and they have gone in the absolute crap. Now, again, I'm not casting aspersions. I am just stating a fact. And I think it would not be totally irresponsible to wonder if the subtraction of Daniel Tice sent the Celtics to a different place. And the attainment of Daniel Tice had sent the bulls to a different place than they were before. I'm just stating point of fact. You know who they need. They need Luke Cornett. That passing touch. Luke Cornet.

You could? You know what? He looks good. All right. So, hey, that's the negative. Let's do the positive. I'll flip it. I'll do the positive side.

You know, since they lost Luke Cornet, the bulls have gone to hell at a handbasket. And since Boston got him to the moon. So maybe Cornette's the key. So the first part of that was obviously my first fact that I stated was the negative side of it. And maybe that was improper. We'll just do the positive. Man, the Bulls didn't know how much they were going to miss the Cornette. And just his locker room present of nothing else.

And then obviously the infusion. You got to have that leadership. The infusion of energy that there has been. been in the Celtics because of the sheer presence of Luke Cornet has been extreme. And we cannot forget the loss of Wendell Carter Jr. Oh, yeah. Who has been outstanding. No, he's been really good for the magic.

Orlando, yeah. It's lovely to watch, actually. I love watching Wendell Carter Jr. It reminds me a Duke. I will say. Let me say this. It is funnier than hell that they got all those frigging draft picks and they made those trades and unloaded their whole damn team and they have somehow gotten better.

Orlando is competitive. I mean, Orlando. They lost like six games in a row before the win against Chicago. I know, but they got blown out a couple times, Chris. A couple of times.

By and large, though, they started out. Three times, I guess. Look right after the trade deadline. Look right after the trade deadline, though. I know.

Since then, they are. Not terrible. They've won three of their last 10. So they haven't been good. Worse than I thought. Yeah, they've lost, they got smoked by Utah, smoked by Washington by Milwaukee and San Antonio.

But those are all what I expected. I know, I know. When they play another rat team like the Bulls, they bust their ass. Another rat team. I love that phrase. Yeah. Throw that out there.

I guess a wizard's you could say they're a rat team, but they're not. They've been playing unlike a rat team recently. They compete for playing tournament spot, Chris. They may get there too. Because the bulls are in trouble, man. They are. I mean, especially we don't know how long Levine's going to be out.

When you look at the flip side, there's another team in the Western Conference did the same damn thing. They tried to get better with the trade deadline. They said, you know what? We're not going the opposite direction. We're going to try to win now. Sacramento. Yeah. Nine in a row losses.

Horrendous. Yeah. I mean, again. It's happening while Fox is having some games where he's just going off. Oh, yeah. They tried to win now. They tried to win now. And it's,

it's gone totally the opposite direction. Like that is, these two are cautionary tales, the Bulls and the Kings. And that's before Levine got hurt, by the way, right? Because it's going to look worse

now that Levine got hurt. But they are cautionary tales of this first year where if you're in the, if you're in the top 10, you got a crack at it. And they are teams that in Another year would not have said, we're going to make some moves right now to try to bolster for this season. Not looking two years, three years.

We're going to try to do this for right now. And it becomes a cautionary tale because they both have gone the exact wrong direction while possibly mortgaging some of their future. You and I both at our Wendell Carter stock, and I'm telling you, if Wendell Carter ends up being a fantastic player in this league for, you know, the next seven, eight years, it will not be shocking to me. And by that time, Busevich, he's retired, you know, and so you make moves for the here and now. And, you know, to get to what? To get to 10? To get to, you're not getting the six, right? You're not guaranteeing your spot.

So you're just trying to get to nine or ten to give yourself a chance at it. And that's why with Chicago, it's about Levine. It's about trying to maximize him and keep him long term because he's still young himself. You know, so you want to keep him. And for Sacramento, it's about even though Fox just signed his deal, it's about keeping him happy and trying to win with him. That is a more important point of which is, and you brought this up with Levine and you're right, which is it's not just about the 10. it's about getting these guys to believe that you're on to something and that at least if you get them to that moment

and they lose that moment, then they can put it on themselves. If they're not even part of that moment, they blame the franchise. And it will not be long until those sat guys all start asking. I mean, you already saw it bagley earlier in the year before he got hurt. And it'll come down the pike with healed.

It'll come down the pike with Fox. You know, they're going to be watching Bogdanovich playing in the playoffs this year. And it's going to be annoying as hell to them. It is. You know? Did you see after the game the other day, I think it was after the Wizards game that the Kings lost,

Fox just looks so deflated after the game. He had 33 points or I forget if it was the game against the Pelicans when he had 43 or the game against the Wizards, we had 33. But either way, he just looks so disgusted after the game. And this isn't like national media trying to get Deeran Fox out of Sacramento. It's just stating the reality here is that there's a super talented player in Deeran Fox who's averaging nearly 30 points per game over the last couple weeks.

And his team is losing nine games in a row for the second time this season. This is the second time the Kings have lost nine in a row this season. How do you think that makes that guy feel? Eventually at some point that guy's like, you know what, screw this. I want to go somewhere else. And that's why Sacramento, like, the decisions that they make moving forward here are about Deerrin Fox and keeping him happy and making this team a winner with him because he's that good of a player. And he's only getting better as a player. So, I mean, for Kings fans, I feel bad, dude.

I feel so bad because it's not like there's not, it's not talent on the team. Like Bogdanavich was there and he was had some great moments. And then he goes to Atlanta and it's even better. They have real fans. That hardcore fans. Yes. Like real, great fans. Real fans, passionate fans that want so badly for that thing to be different than it is.

Exactly. And the hardest part I would think is, bro, you were so close, so close to breaking through under Yeager. You were. They were right there. They were like to tick under. 500 and it was like our and then it start over again new coach new front office new i mean and it's like what the we would just gotten you had just gotten to the precipice i mean you're right there you're you're one of the teams that you know this is the trajectory of a team you suck you suck you suck you

start to not suck then you get better then you get better and now they went straight back down to the bottom. It's crazy. I mean, and all, look, dude, it's past mistakes. Dvots on the past front office

taking Bagley over Luca. Simple as that. That was the mistake. There's no question. That was the mistake. And that's going to loom over them for many, many years to come,

which is disappointing. It's disappointing. They would have been fine if they would have, because they, look, they were almost 500. Again,

they would not be an outstanding team. I'm saying they would have been fine with Fox and healed, Bagley, and the injuries have killed Bagley. But they would have been fine with that core. And then they had Bogdanovich. They lost Bogdanovich for nothing. Every decision they make is ridiculous. They bring in new crappy veterans every year that don't help them at all.

They bring in Trevor Reza. They bring in Dwayne Dedman. They bring in Corey Joseph. It's like, what? They just bring in dudes that they end up having to buy out. It's what they do in frigging free agency every year. And honestly, this is Luke Walton's fault in many ways.

That team is not as bad as they, that roster is not as bad. Their record's worse than it should be this year. There's no doubt about that, especially when you've got Fox. I don't know if I agree there personally. I mean, I mean, I'm not, I'm not the Luke Walton part.

I'm talking strictly about the record. Like, the West is loaded, man. There's so many strong teams in the West. It's like they're behind New Orleans, San Antonio Gold State, Memphis. Those are the four teams ahead of them. That doesn't surprise me personally. Maybe they could be a little bit better than 22 and 34, 25 and 31, you know, right around New Orleans record.

But even then, I think New Orleans should be better than they are. So I don't think they're too far off in the standings from where I maybe would have expected. I just think the West is so freaking loaded. Hey, tonight's going to be a fun. We're talking about teams battling to try to get the 10. there is a fun game tonight, which could be super fun because it could end up having,

I mean, if you want to see a game that could feasibly have, and let me make sure I'm right about this because I believe I saw it is happening tonight. It is. New York, Dallas? No, no, no, no, no. A game that could have 300 points in it,

the Wizards Pelicans. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's another one. Yeah, those two. Like they're fighting for 10. They could for real have 300 points. If that game was 165 to 162, it would not surprise me. Neither of them play one lick of defense. And every time the ball comes out of the net, they just take off.

And then they shoot indiscriminately, just whatever. Right? I can't. That is what I promise you, I am flipping on just because it's going to look like something than you see in a park. They should play that game at a park. They should even play that in an NBA arena. Yeah, that'll be a fun one.

That's on 7 p.m. tonight in the game I mentioned Nick's Mavericks. Yeah, that's at 930 national TV on ESPN. That's another playing tournament game. Yeah, Dallas is up a seven right now. Yeah. New York, they're not in the plan, but they're fighting to stay out of the plan. Yep. So both in Dallas still, you know, there's a chance they could get to six, you know,

that's not out of the question for them. And I, dude, I was there. I was there the other night for the frigid Luca game winner. Oh my goodness, dude. Bro. That was extraordinary. I've been in that arena.

I mean, there have been a lot of significant things that have happened in the arena, oddly, um, over time where the air just completely comes out of the place. I was there. there was a full Kentucky crowd for Kentucky. This is the Fox year, interestingly enough. Fox and Monk and Bam out of Iowa was on that team.

I was in the arena and there's a million Kentucky fans for Kentucky versus North Carolina. And Monk hits a three at the very end of the game to tie it and they throw the ball in bounds. And it's the Luke May shot. Luke May hit a buzzer beater and you could have heard a pin drop in that place. Like it was

it was just crazy. And another time was there's the famous there's a point guard at Memphis 100 years ago named Darius Washington and they were playing Rick Petino's Louisville team

and if Calipari was the coach of Memphis if they win they're going to the NCAA tournament because they've won the conference tournament. If they lose they're going to go to the NIT.

And Darius Washington got fouled down two, got fouled at the buzzer. Freshman point guard. He was a McDonald's All-American, and they sent him to the free throw line. People can watch us on YouTube. It's the saddest thing you ever saw in your life. So if he hits three, they win.

If he hits two, they tie. And he makes the first one. He misses the second one. Oh, man. he misses the third one and hits all fours at the free throw line. I'm getting chills, talk about it.

And you could have heard a pin drop. And I think on the broadcast, which I went back home and watched, I think it's Vern Lundquist or somebody says, somebody go help that kid. Because he's just on all fours. He's bawling his eyes out. It was the saddest thing ever.

But I say, technically, nobody around him either, too. I just pulled it up. No, it's the end of the game, bro. Yeah. And game, yeah. Nobody's standing there for the rebounds.

It's just him at the line and that's it. It's it. Wow. Yeah, I remember that. And he, so I was, I mean, I'm not far from that court when that happens. And again, pin drop, just like the Luke May thing. I say all that to tell you the other night, that Luca shot, pin drop stuff. But when he hit that, it was like, bro, what just happened?

Like, I thought he tied the game. No lie. In real time? He floated forward, right? He was under the basket. Oh my God. He hit a floater. And then when I saw his foot behind the line as he released it, I was like, dude, I have never in my life seen some crap like that.

That was true Luke of magic. It was, man. I saw it right in front of my face. And still, I mean, stunning. And that was a massive game because they're only a half game up on Memphis if they lose that game. And instead moved to two and a half up. And you mentioned tonight they've got the Knicks. It's a little Porzingis revenge too.

Every time they play against the Knicks, they only see them twice a year. He's injured all the time. So I can't imagine he's played against the Knicks that many times since he's been in Dallas. Because he hadn't played against anybody that many times since he's been in Dallas. I'll tell you what, Chris, would Luca taking that floater? According to Synergy, he shoots 55% on runners this season.

And all of those are taken from mid-range. Yeah. But that's like an absurdly high percentage. You saw a guy in Mike Conley who drained floaters after floaters for many, many years in the NBA. I'm not saying guys are going to start taking floaters from the three-point line. But for somebody like

Luca, it's intriguing. Oh, stop it. Why? Because that was a one in a million shot. That wasn't, I know, but like, because he was falling over and he had to take it, but he could,

it was lucky circumstances, but skill to take advantage of those circumstances. Like, he has that skill and that touch to actually even be able to hit that shot when he's off balance falling down. He said he wasn't even looking at the rib. But some people, some people just have that ability, man.

Like some people just have the ability to put the ball where they want to put it. Some don't. And Luke is one of those guys who can. Like, he's a special player. He really is. This is why people say Luca Magic. This is why people say Luca Legend. Because he, those players, those level of talents are capable of those special moments where you're just like, what?

Because it's not just luck. It's a combination of luck and skill that work together in those moments that make for that pin drop moment, you know? We got very sad news this week since we last spoke on the Lamarcus Aldridge front because he, he retired because he was scared about a heart condition. He had felt it beating irregularly in their last game that he played. And so he makes a decision to hang it up. This is not something that do you want to mess with? And we've seen this happen before with players.

With the blood clotting issue, it ended Chris Bosch's career. when Bosch absolutely could have played more years than he did. But your heart is not something that you can mess around with. And it was kind of sad, honestly, to read the Aldridge, to read the note, you know. And it is one of those moments where you say, geez, it's pretty profound when he's talking about, you never know when it's over. He certainly was never expecting that to be his last game. we talked so many times about not taking things for granted,

and it kind of gave you that sense as you read his stuff. Marcus Alder said absolutely no idea that that was going to be the last basketball game he played in. None. And next thing you know it is. It reminds me of Vince Carter's last game being the shutdown. That's right. You never expected that to be BC's last game. Granted he hit the three and all that.

Beamed a memorable nice night for him. to end his career that way. But just you don't know when it's going to end, you know, in any way. And it said because I actually, we're driving home. I was driving my son home from his baseball practice yesterday. And I was telling him about the Aldridge News. And I told him two stories of which he was unaware. I told him about Reggie Lewis.

And I told him about Hank Gathers and those two things. And I was like, you know, this has happened before where, you know, undetected. And then a guy is playing and they have died. And, you know, that is so terrifying. And there have been examples in the past of something like that happening. And so Aldridge, uh, wish him well in his retirement. Um, I thought it was interesting to see, uh, Damien Lillard coming out yesterday. He's posting about him, posting pictures, you know,

of them and you know i think he did have this one kind of cryptic caption which is like what might have been type of thing which is an acknowledgement that that did not work out like it should have um and you know he said that they should retire

his number in portland whatever the reason that that was so interesting to me is because that did go sour there and a lot of it was Lillard was the new dude in town you know like Lamarcus Aldridge had been the guy,

been an all-star, whatever, and you go around town, and all the billboards are all of a sudden, Damian Lillard, and, you know, Damian Lillard, Damian Lillard, and he's got, you know, Adidas, has promoted him

and everything else. And I think that it was hard for Aldridge, like kind of the, what about me? You know what I mean? I've been the guy here for a long time and nobody gives a crap about me anymore.

And you can see how jealousy, resent, ego gets involved in that kind of stuff. But I'll tell you how bad it was. Kevin, when they played here, The year that the Grizzlies knocked out Portland, I don't know, maybe, like, that was the end of the Aldridge thing. He took a separate flight home than the team. Marcus Aldridge did. He took a separate flight home from the team.

That's how bad that ended. And so that's why it was so interesting to me to see Damian Lillard come out yesterday as one of the major voices about that, about, you know, hey, they should retire his jersey. you know, wish him well in his retirement, post the pictures with him and everything else, because sometimes things don't go well at all. And yet as time passes, and especially with something like this, which is not tragedy,

you know, because he didn't die or anything, but it's upsetting, you know, for him to have to hang it up. You know, after time passes, it,

it elicits a kind of response that I, I wouldn't have expected necessarily. I didn't know how things were with them. Yeah, I mean, he, yeah, I mean, Aldridge has had those hard issues for quite some time now and seemed like it was under control. But I'm glad that he's being proactive and putting family first, putting himself first, ultimately his own health. Sad, it sucks. I mean, I was looking forward to seeing him in that environment with the Brooklyn Nets and seeing how things developed there for him and his own career to get a chance to make a deep playoff run again.

Like he did some years with Portland. So, you know, it's disappointing. But I'm just glad he's making the call that's best. for his health and his future. Yep. All right, before we get out of here, you did an eight-minute video on Poku. Oh, you know what?

We are out of time. All right, so you can... People can check that out on the Ringers' YouTube page. Just search for Alexei Pogesvsky, The Void. You see it? Tell me you saw that text I sent you yesterday. Yeah, the Poku propaganda.

What would that be... No, no, no. was watching. So Kevin's video on YouTube, whatever I searched for the Poku video, one of the videos that popped up underneath it was like the front of the the front of the video says, somebody teach this guy about food

and it's a Poku video. I watch that one too. Hey man, he's seven feet 190 pounds. He'll add weight over the years ago. Not too much, though, because you don't want him to lose his speed in quickness and fluidity, Chris. Hey! But he's got some... Did you watch the video?

They've got time and they're developing him. Dude, Poohoo's got some skill. He does. I thought it was a fun video. It wasn't like overly serious, deep analysis. He doesn't have to be. Yeah, like, it was just about like, here's the seven-footer who's a rookie and has this

weird game. That's fun to watch. He is fun. He is fun. So yeah, go check out the video. He is super fun to watch. I do believe that. He is an easy.

interesting NBA player. Exactly. And nothing else. We'll see what his ceiling is. He is fun to watch. It's just like Taco, Taco's fun. It's like they're like,

you don't see anything like them. That's what makes the NBA. That's why the NBA is always sort of been my favorite sport. Because you have like the extremes of humanity. We have like some like five foot six players like Earl Boyinkins of the world, the eight Robinson's, but then you have like Taco Fall. That's right.

And you have Yao Ming. You have like super tall and skinny, Alexi Pokershefsky. It's just all these different types of people and players and styles all on the court. It's just such an awesome sport. I love it. Love talking about it with you too, Chris. We got a fun weekend and we got a lot of awesome games that are going on tonight and this weekend.

So hopefully there's not a lot of load management of guys do play. I mean, look, there's like a Clipper Sixers game going on. There's that Pelicans, the wizard's foot race going on. There's the game you mentioned with the Knicks and Dallas. It's going to be, I know. today is going to be an amazing league past day and now you know like we're

standings watching at least for the last 20 games of the season. I'm feeling good about the playing tournament. I know a lot of negative talk about it this week. Understandably so. People have their own thoughts but I think the playing tournament is going to make for some fun basketball down the stretch. Me too. Thanks to producer Sasha as always and we will talk to you next week.

Have a good one everybody.