The Mismatch - The Case for a Pacers Surprise, OKC’s Path to the Finals, and What’s Next for the Knicks

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

The Pacers beat the Knicks over the weekend to reach the Finals, where they will meet the Oklahoma City Thunder! Before discussing the Finals, Verno questions Jacoby regarding the next steps for the Knicks after a disappointing ending to their season. Is it time for Thibs to go? Does this core stay intact for another year? Next, the guys make the case for a Pacers upset and discuss what it'll take to pull that off, as well as their hope for a competitive series. Lastly, the guys discuss Devin Booker's involvement in the Suns' head coaching search and the weird send-off ‘Inside the NBA’ has gotten despite the fact that the show will return next season on ESPN. (0:00) Welcome to The Mismatch!(2:23) Why Did the Knicks Lose?(6:00) Would You Bring Back Coach Thibs?(11:50) How Should the Knicks Change their Roster?(18:52) The Pacers Path To The Finals [+530](27:27) Finals Preview: Oklahoma City Thunder [-750] Indiana Pacers [+530](50:50) Game 1: Pacers vs. Thunder [-9](55:17) Suns Nearing Decision to Hire Next Head Coach(56:37) Thoughts on ESPN's Inside The NBA Leave us a message on our Mismatch voicemail line! [phone]The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Visit creditkarma.com or download the app today. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David JacobyProducers: Jessie Lopez and Tucker TashjianSocial: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me to see that's every week from the Ringer.com is Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. Finals are here, Verno. They're upon us. That was not very exciting. I just don't want to talk about the Knicks. Why didn't you say, the finals are here, Verno? Because it's a Pacer's in the Thunder. Oh, we're not doing this big market media bias yet. I don't care about that.

Yeah, you do. I said on the show in the last episode that the Pacers were a better match. up with the thunder than the Knicks. I think it's an interesting finals. I am excited to watch all four games with them. Well, we'd be remiss if we did not mention that the last episode that we recorded, you had experienced a euphoria of game five

at Madison Square Garden. It felt good about the opportunity. You felt good about the opportunity in game six. I was so hype because it was such a dominant performance. A wire-to-wire Knicks win in the playoffs, it's just unfathomable. They looked like the better team after looking like an outclassed,

out-coached team in game four. Gave up 94 points. We talked about pace of game. It's like they figured things out. They were able to dictate the terms in game five and then did not dictate the pace in game six. Ended up getting 125 hung on them in game six and a 125-108 victory for the Pacers.

This episode is presented by Intuit Credit Karma. Navigate the world of credit cards with Credit Karma's tailored recommendations. It's suitable for anyone interested in taking control of their financial journey with cutting edge technology. Start at Credit Karma.com to find cards that fit your financial lifestyle. Credit Karma, finding the right card for you. So before we get into all the final stuff, let's put that to bed because we talked a lot of lot about that Knicks series. Obviously, you went to that Knicks series. Three Nix questions for Jacoby. Are you ready? Yes, sir. Why did the Knicks lose? Lack of adjustments. Just, just,

like, I think a lot about Game 6th was a very frustrating evening to be a Knicks fan or even a basketball fan because they didn't play well in the first half. But remember, going into the half, they're down four. And I started to think about that half time, right? What do you think the coaches told the team at half time? They're like, guys, get back on defense after a made basket. If Jalen drives, Bridges, you replace. We need, we need got. OG, Mikal, you don't try for offensive rebounds. They're beating us with their pace. They're beating us off made baskets. They're beating us off misshots. They're beating us off missed shots. Get back.

Let's slow this down. That's what they said at halftime. Because you know on one side, Rick Carlisle, because you could see him during the game. Pace, pace, pace, pace, pace, pace, pace. Like the whole thing, right? Like, go, go, go, go. And I don't blame coaches.

I know the Tibbs is going through it. We'll talk about that, I'm sure. But, like, I don't blame the coaching. I just blame the execution. Like, at halftime, I'm sure they were, told, we need to limit turnovers and transition points. And then start the third quarter,

it was the same thing. And it was worse. It was honestly worse. I mean, you're talking about, look, the video I posted on Twitter was, I posted one. It was off a make. And I don't think the ball touched the ground

and it was a dunk on the other end. And I'm like, how is this out of a transition dunk off a make? Like, that's what it was. was. It was go, go, go, go, beating them down the court. Do you think that they had the personnel for it to be solvable? Or do you think that because of what the Knicks bring to the table and what makes them successful? And it's what Tibbs stuck with. And though they're starting five throughout the playoffs did not have good numbers, right? Like it, for whatever reason, that unit does not

play well together in a in a like they have all variations of the lineups that they play and we've talked a lot about how sometimes when towns was on the court without brunson when brunson was on the court without towns and then you have the two big guys who are obviously not fleet of foot and are just getting so if you're going to play two big guys we're just going to foot race you constantly up and down and so is there a part of you? that goes, this was a uniquely bad matchup, or do you look at it and go, that should have been solvable?

And we should have punished them. First of all, you said three questions. That was about, you just asked like five at once. No idea. Yes, you did. Go back on the tape. But I will say, to answer, it should have been solvable in my opinion.

I'm not an NBA basketball coach. But I feel like going into the series, I felt like the Knicks had more talented basketball. players coming out of the series, I felt like they were out-coached. And not necessarily out-coached as that puts it on Tibbs. I felt like the obvious changes that needed to be made on the basketball floor, I'm sure were suggested by the coaches, but just were not executed by the players. Fair enough.

Okay. Question number two, because there's only been one question so far. Yeah, sure. Let the record show. Let the record show. would you bring back Tibbs as a fan? We know we have got an endorsement from Brunson. According to Shams, he evidently has support from the front office.

It's a lot easier to have support from the front office when you've still got whatever it is, $30 million remaining on your contract or whatever extension he had signed. It's not like he was, you know, coaching for his job. I mean, you could go and make $30 million dollars if you want to try to move on from him. would you, will you be happy as a Knicks fan if Tom Tibito is on the sideline next year? Well, it's hard for me to be unbiased about this as someone who has been coached by Tom Tibito before as a basketball player. Oh, I forgot you're a former player of his. I might as well be talking to Joe Kim Noah.

Yeah, it's hard for me to be objective about this. But I'll just try to imagine that he was never my coach for two weeks when I was nine years old. Okay. In that hypothetical world, I love it. I'm of the mind that people love to get rid of coaches, but it's like, well, who else? Like, who is out there? Mike Malone comes up,

but people always want to like, oh, he's from Long Island. Like, one of the things I'm tired of in, like, NBA Discord, is player X is from location Y, so he should play for Team Z. Like, that doesn't really factor into me. There is something about knowing the local culture and the fan base and being able to relate to, like, the fans.

But outside of Mike, Malone like I don't Mike Malone like who else? P.S. Mike Malone play seven guys too. Yeah. Like who else? Like who's been better than Tim's? And from an objective perspective like looking at the season, I never like let's not forget

how we felt about this team going into the Celtics series. Remember you said it was minus 800 on Fandau. Like coach Tibado coached a team that beat the Celtics with Tatum brought them to a 3-1 lead without Tatum beat the Celtics

in a seven game series at home in the garden when the Knicks have been like 0 and 7 in elimination games in the garden it's like I thought this has been a very successful season this is the first year with this core so why would you fire tips

why? Also most important to me beyond it was a wildly successful season that will be revered as such as time goes on right it's all fresh right now and it's annoying to lose to the Pacers.

I get it. But you're going to look back and go, we were one of the last four teams standing in this game. Thank you. That's where my head's it. Right. If we recorded this, I just want to say,

if we recorded this podcast Saturday night, I wouldn't have this sort of like a balanced approach. I was very emotional and very angry. Because it was just such a dumb way to lose an elimination game. But now that I've had some time to like relax, talk to other Knicks fans and like listen to like the discourse about, firing Tibbs and like trading for Janus or trading for Durant. Like none of that.

This is the best next season. What was the last time they're in the Eastern Conference was? And the other thing is this, right? 99 was the last time they're in the finals. Coaches nowadays, this is my feel. Get all of the blame and none of the credit. When there was an acquisition, we talked about how he had Jalen Brunson's support, to not give Tom Tibido any of the credit for what has become of Jailen Brunson is folly to me.

Like he deserves credit. Like if we all accept no one saw this coming where Jalen Brunson's a 30 point for game score in the league. I'm not buying the no one saw this coming thing. They didn't. But they've got Rick Brunson as the assistant coach. Rick Brunson saw this coming. Rick Brunson did not think his son was going to have Steph Curry numbers. When they were playing.

I think they're playing Oklahoma City Thunder and World Wide West and World Wide West, I think it might have been Leon, we're in the crowd. It was like a game four. It was like, oh, we're checking out our guy. There's no doubt. They had him pegged for that. There's no doubt they targeted him and wanted him and thought he was going to be a fantastic signing. They did not think he was going to be this. Even to them, this is surprising that he has become a 30 point per game score, one of the best playoff performers, all this.

stuff. And so all I'm saying is Tibbs gets credit for these guys advancing as well and playing as well as they did. And maneuvering through, you know, the Towns is a big, that's a big change when you're adding Carl

Townsend to the mix on this. And look, they've got the talent, they spent the money, you should be very good. When you're spending $200 million on your payroll, you should be very good. Okay, unless you've royally screwed it up, i.e. Phoenix or one of the others that has screwed it up.

But by and large, if you spend that kind of money, you should have good players. And they do have good players. All I'm saying is, Tibbs, it's like they got to the final four of this whole deal. We're one of the last four teams remaining. And the reason that they didn't get further is because of Tibbs, but the reason they got there is not because of him. And I don't mind. Exactly. I think with Tibbs, if there was like, if Ty Lou was available.

or there's like if there was some big guy out there that I felt like it wasn't upgrade, but I think people want to fire tips and forget you have to replace him. And I don't think like Mike Malone is going to be like that much of an upgrade over tips. So I would say keep tips. And even before you ask it, I'll say just keep the core. Like, okay, that was actually question three. Would you run it back and fix the margins or would you change starters? I think you, two different questions.

In terms of roster. I would keep the core together. What is the core? The five. You would? It's the five with Mitch and Deuce. Yeah, the starting five in Mitch and Deuce. Now, who starts the game?

I think that we can talk about that in a second. But like the, you know, because I'm in all the Knicks, the Knicks group chats. You know what I mean? Like I've got a bunch of group chat friends. And they're all talking about Jay Wright and Durant and Janice. And it's like, that is not smart. And it's not going to happen.

And that would be very, very, very silly. this has been a very successful season. And I think that with the Tibbs part, I think it's not a firing, but it's a conversation. It's a conversation that's like, hey, man, like, sham it in light, right?

That kind of changed the series. Like, could you use that in November? I know that they weren't available, whatever, or on the team. But like, like, let's, let's loosen up the rotation. Let's play guys, less minutes. Let's experiment with different lineups against different things so we can have situational

fives. You know what I mean? You look at the Thunder who we'll talk about they've got a five if you go small, they've got a five if you go big, they've got a five of you run,

they've got a five if it's all going to be half-port execution. Like, I feel like the Knicks have like a five. Right. And that's it. So I think it's, there needs to be philosophical adjustments,

but marginal roster adjustments. I do think that the seven, including Deuce and Mitchell Robinson and the starting five, should all come back. And they're all under contract. Do you think if we would have done this show Saturday night or Sunday morning, you would be this measured about roster and coach?

More coach. It was ridiculous to me to have a team get transition buckets after makes in the first half and then the second half. Like what was said in the locker room with the second half? What was said? And this is also what is left in the wake of the Indiana Pacers because you look at the teams that they eliminated. So the Bucks, we fully expect them to be very different next year, possibly completely different next year.

The Cleveland Cavaliers are going to have a true come to Jesus this offseason, right, especially with Mobley winning defensive player of the year and what his contract is now eligible to become, and you're looking at Jared Allen, and you're looking at Darius Garland and like you're already seeing I saw a rumor the other day which actually

it's worth mentioning I think it was Chris Fador was the one that was it was credited with it but that there was like some kind of framework with a possible Darius Garland and Jalen Suggs kind of swap and I

I you know like because look you see these stupid trade things Yeah, of course. Like you see that stuff all the time. You see every Instagram meme of people proposing, you know, here's the trade. Here's the trade. But that was one that like stopped me in my tracks. I was like, oh my God, that would be absolutely amazing for both teams.

Like that's exactly what Orlando needs. And that's exactly what Cleveland needs next to Donovan Mitchell. I don't have their contract. Why not? Like, why not? I was like, that's actually great framework for a deal. So anyways, the point is Cleveland is going to make big changes probably, certainly starting lineup changes and maybe even bigger going into next year. And then the Knicks, and we will see what happens with the Knicks.

But all of that is part of this Indiana Pacer story, which is honestly insane. Like the more I have done all the finals research as we are getting ready for this show, it's implausible. that they are in this position and that they are leaving these teams in their wake that will all alter their rosters and all be different because there's just no way they should be here based upon preseason odds, December odds, January odds, or even playoff odds. They were slightly favored against the bucks. And then they were big underdogs to the calves and they were underdogs to the calves and they were underdogs to the Knicks, and yet here they are.

Before we move on to the Paces, I do want to say that there's something about team loses playoff series, all of a sudden we have to blow up the roster and change everything. You know what I mean? It's just like, what are we talking about?

Like every single team that loses a playoff series, it's like, oh, we've got to blow up the roster. We've got to trade their stars. We have completely shuffled the deck. Like, do you? Look at the Knicks. The Knicks overachieved. I thought they might have lost the pissens in the first round. Honestly, that was a big series win right there. And I'm going to tell you the other thing, Jacoby, Boston being out of it is a massive deal with this. Yes.

Like, you have to look at things differently if you are an outstanding Eastern Conference basketball team right now because the competition with the whole Yonnas thing going up in smoke maybe, nobody really counts on Philly and their stars. So you're like looking at it. it and you're going, okay, what, who are we dealing with next year? Right? Who are we dealing with next year? What is the problem with bringing back an outstanding team and taking a run at it again? And we'll see how the cards fall.

Well, that's also the same pitch to Janus. You can say that to the Knicks. You could also say that to Yon. You can. You can say, hey, man, like, you want to go to the West? Wait, you want to play with Victor Wimbunyama? Or you think you and Victor Wimbunyama are going to beat these teams? And one of the things is.

things that was interesting. Even this is, this is something Durant even said at the trade deadline. When he was talking openly about the possibility of him being traded, he was like, number one, I don't, like, I want to see this through. Let's just get through the season. The other thing is, if you trade for me, more than likely you're gutting your team, right? You're losing valuable players. And so now I'm going to a gutted team with 30 games left in the season with the egg bait, right? And so he's like, I don't really want to do that. It's a really good point.

I'd much rather, let's take a step back. And so that is the other issue, right? A lot of times when these stars get moved, it's like, okay, who's left around me? Because you just traded a bunch of good players to get me. I would say that Jimmy Butler didn't feel that way. No. Who's not here? Andrew Wiggins in slow-mo?

Yeah, who cares? But on the Pacers front, look, it's the seven players in double-dict. They were 10 and 15 in December, 16 and 18 when the calendar turned. They had a losing record going into 2025. And since that point, 34 and 14 in the regular season, 12 and 4 in the playoffs. So that is 46 and 18, which is second only to Oklahoma City's 53 and 13. So these are the two best teams since January 1st. It doesn't feel that way.

The Clippers are probably in there, right? The Clippers had finished really hot, but I would say this. One thing I didn't realize is the Pacers were one game behind the Knicks and the standards. Yeah. One game. Unbelievable. If you were if you were put a gun to my head after the regular season

ended, like, how many games behind are the Pacers than the Knicks? I'd have like, four, five? Like, they basically have the same record. One game. It's like, it all happened to where now they're sitting there, they're in the NBA finals, and they are just so unlike anything that we have seen before, right? Because of their preseason odds, their odds right now

to even win the finals. They're plus 500 in an NBA finals, for God's sakes. It's the six longest odds in the history of the NBA finals. They don't really, they don't really have a superstar scorer, which almost every finals team, does. They don't really have some kind of like all defensive monster, which you typically have. You usually have like, and you're typically not the underdog all the way through until you get to this point. They are just not like finals teams we have seen in the past. And it has been very difficult to figure out, you know, even when you're starting to look at the finals. And it's like, bro, I watched all of this.

I've been mega impressed with the Pacers, but there is still a part of you that's like, I'll be, damn, it really is the Pacers. How many series are they going to have to be? How many superstars are they going to have to put it in the ground before we respect them? I know.

I didn't going into the series, to be honest with you. And like, they went to the conference finals last year. And if you were to say before this regular season, be like, Pacers went to the, went to the conference finals last year.

Do you expect them to return? I would have laughed at your, base. I would have said they made it because people got hurt. They limped, they, they, they lucked their way into the conference finals. We won't see them again in the conference finals for years. That's what I would have said before this regular season. And now, and now, well, look, they beat that Bucks team. They beat a 64 win team.

The Cleveland Cavaliers had 64 wins this year. No matter what anybody wants to say about them. No, game two was tough. Game two, they had three of their five starters out. I get it. I got it. Game three, game four, game finals guys play. And the Knicks had all of their guys.

All of them. All of them. And they beat them too. So it's like, all right. Seriously. And then, all right, so as we're about to start, we're talking about the finals, because we talked about Oklahoma City

and after they lay waste to Minnesota. DeGobie, you know I've been on this. Hey, it's too much too soon. You've got to take your scars. Young teams don't typically. typically win, whatever. So it's like, all right, well, if they're going to lose, they have to lose to the Pacers.

And so you go through everything and you're like, all right, what's happened when these teams have met? What happens? What do they do well? What do they do well? Well, let me just tell you something. You're going to quit reading about this series in about 15 minutes if you're trying to find a way for anybody to believe in the Pacers because this would be,

I mean, you've really. read all of the stuff leading into it. And I, Lord knows, I've read every finals preview. Getting ready for this. I've seen all the stats. And you walk away from it, you're like, you know. And then I'm listening to Zach Lowe and Kurt Goldsbury. Goldsbury's got him in like five.

He's like, man, I'll give Halliburton one. It'll go five. I mean, and then you see the odds. You see the Vegas odds. And it's like, okay, I got it. This whole time we've all been sitting there going, the Pacers, really? And now they're here.

And now I'm ready to be like, you know, don't count them out. We've been counting them out the whole time. And then I read everything and I'm like, eh, you might want to count them out. A couple things. I'm not sure. Well, this is going to go. Before the Cavs series, I didn't think the Pacers were going to win the series at all. Remember the Cavs just laid waste to the heat?

They just came off like a 40-pint point wind against the heat. Like I thought the Cavs were going to run through the Pacers, honestly. And I thought the Celtics were going to run through the Knicks. I thought that Game 7 the Nuggets would beat the Thunder. I've been wrong. We've been wrong. Upsets happen. This is not impossible.

And I didn't know we were going to start with the case for the Pacers. I don't think the Pacers are going to win the series. But there is some things that can lead you to believe that. it is possible. I've got a couple for you. The pace. I'm all in. I'm all there. So we've talked about this. It's very reductive, but oftentimes it all comes down to the guy

the other team leaves open, gets the ball. Yeah, there's a close out, but it's a couple steps away. It's kind of an open three. Can they make it or not? Right? And we know who it is on both rosters. The finals are here at last. It's all come down

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that is when things get interesting. combine live prop bets into a same game parlay with a chance to win big. I have my eye on a lot of things when it comes to the finals game one, which is upcoming before we know it. Number one, I expect a thunder to win and win easy. But when I open up my band duel, I don't just bet the game. I bet the player props. And I'll be looking at this.

If Tyrese Halliburton is being hounded by all of those defenders for the Thunder. I will be betting an under on his points and an under on his rebounds because he does get assists because he gets the ball out of his hands well. I will also be looking at SGA. He is constantly over 20. Constantly over 20. He has a bad game against over 20. And I think that the thunder will run away with game one. So I will probably bet the thunder minus whatever the point spread is at the end.

So if you combine all of that, you've got. the thunder minus, whatever it is. And then you look at Halliburter, start to start to, you know, start the game a little slow. I'm betting the under on his points, the under on his rebounds and possibly the under on his assist. And SGA over points all the time. Combine all of that, get yourself a same game parlay. That's what I'm looking at in game one. And we'll see.

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gambler or visit rg dash help.com. The Pacers are the number one three point shooting team in the playoffs. They're shooting 40% in the playoffs. Which is a crazy. That's a crazy total for a team. As a team, not a player. I'm not talking about one guy. As a team.

That's right. The Thunder number 13. Yeah. At 33.6. So maybe this young team. So maybe this. It's a math. Maybe it's the swing, swing,

Dort, the swing, Wallace, like, you know, the swing, swing, Caruso. Like, maybe those guys, the pressure of the finals, the bright lights, you know,

it's like, maybe those guys get cold. And maybe the Pacers guys stay hot. I think that three-point shooting can just, it's get contagious to. Because once Dortmus ones and Wallace Miss one,

it's like, it can sort of like snowball. And I could see that happening. And I could see the Pacers and Rick Carlos saying, you know what? If we just shut down, just Chet's going to get 25. But if we shut down J-dub and just make it a three-point shooting contest,

I could see that happening. Because one thing that I've heard so much talk about is turnovers are going to, it's going to be the turnover battle, and the possession battle, and the pace battle. Both of these teams want to do that. But I think that's sort of a, cancel out thing. Yeah, but in Oklahoma City's case, it is their ability to score off of those turnovers and you not score off the turnovers at a high rate. I'm trying to make a case for the

Pacers here. But no, no, but I actually think that that is a reasonable one, right? If you told me, look, and this is why it seems far fetch, but it's like, do you win the three point margin regularly, four times, right? Do you win that, the three-point margin by a good margin? And can you win somehow the turnover battle because and not turn it over at a high rate? Because we know, look, 20-something percent of their points come in that fashion. So if you can reduce that, even in half, even in half. even in half. And you just say, all right,

we know they're going to score off turnovers, right? But like 20% of your points is a very, very high number. And so can we reduce that to 10% of their points come off of turnovers, right? Because look, these games,

you're going to have to score 120 to win these games. Do you know one thing that blew my mind as I was doing some research for this? I was thinking about how little Halliburton turns the ball over, how little the Pacers turn the ball over in that series against the Knicks.

It just seems like the Knicks got very few transition baskets, very few. Deuce McBride stepping out of bounds. That killed the whole game. But anyway, the Thunder turned the ball over less than the Pacers in the playoffs. 11.8 for the Thunder, 12.7 for the Pacers. Wow.

I'm coming off this series where I was like, these guys never turn the ball over. It just doesn't happen. Right. I can't even think of, I could probably think of, of like four off the top of my head in a six-game series. Because they're not gross.

Like Minnesota's turnovers were gross. Oh, no. New York had some gross ones too. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm saying when you watch Minnesota playing against Oklahoma City, it's like Nause Reed trying to throw the ball 30 feet across the court. And it's like, have you ever watched a Thunder game for a like? Like Alex Caruso gets that.

And then they go the other way. And how many open dunks do that? they just get off of, like, and you, I can't tell you, I bet, I bet five times during this playoffs, you have texted me some version of pick six. Pick six. That's what they do. It's what they do. It is more likely there are two thunder players on a break with no defenders

than there is that there's one defender and two thunder players. Right. I was just pretty shocked. I was shocked that Thunder turned the ball over less because everybody talks about pace, Pace, Pace with Pace and the, well, the Paces want to play with Pace and the Thunder want to play with Pace and turnovers are going to, you know, that's going to be the thing. I kind of don't feel that way. And the other thing is how many of those guys, this is the other thing that the Thunder do. I saw it in the Grizzly Series.

I saw it in the Denver series. I saw it in the Minnesota series. How many guys on your team can dribble under pressure? How many of them can actually dribble? under pressure. When Lou Dort is an inch from your face, when Alex Caruso is slapping into you constantly, like how many guys can actually dribble under that pressure?

Because in every series, you have watched it. And then it's like, oh, my God, Julius Randall do not put the ball on the ground. And you wonder, is it going to be like what Seacom goes to that two dribble, spin move, whatever? Is that just getting slapped out of his hand? Like, how many of those guys could actually dribble under that kind of duress? And we'll see.

We'll see. This isn't a plus for the Pacers, but they move the ball more than dribble the ball. But the Thunder getting passing lanes more than any other team. So it is kind of like a plus minus a net zero. But like they move the ball more than dribble. And they dribble with intention. Like Siakum is, he dribbles with intention. He's not like going between his legs three times.

And this is why I'm so torn. But what? Because there's part of me that goes, why don't I think they can do, they can play at a super high level in the NBA. They've lost four games in the playoffs. They've done nothing wrong. They've done nothing wrong. Here's my problem. They've lost four.

We've only watched them lose four times. And they have been great since January 1st. So they've been doing this for a long time. This isn't just some kind of like three week miracle run. And yet here we are. And as we're reading through these final previews, it's like, oh, God. Like, are they even going to be able to dribble? Are they even going to be able to back?

Oh, no. Like, it really does feel like everybody, you know, the more you read about it, the more daunting it is. It's like somehow, even though they've gotten to the, this point. I mean, it would be honestly, if you were to read just as much.

Honestly, this would be the most unlikely NBA champion ever. Pistons. It's not even close. Pistons. It's not even close. No.

That was one of the greatest defenses ever assembled. If you were to, but I keep going back to how I felt about the Knicks going into the Celtic series. I thought there was good, I thought there was going to be just a, just a buzzsaw.

I thought they had no chance. No chance whatsoever. Right. Like, grant there's, you know, KB's health and whatever, but like, there's always a chance. I don't think the Pacers are going to win. But the problem with me, like the intellectual brick wall I keep running into when I try to make a case for the Pacers is Lou Dort on Halliburton.

Lou Dort checks out. Kaysen Wallen on Halliburton. There's a switch. Alice Caruso on Halliburton. And we all know that Halliburton, he's not as consistent as other stars. he can get taken out of games. We've seen it before and we've discussed it. Like, against the bucks, he had a game with 10 points,

he had 13 assists. Against the Cavs, he had a game with four points and only five assists. And in game five against the Knicks, he had eight points and six assists. Like, he could be taken out of games. And do you know who can take you out of games? Dork, Caruso, and Wallace. Okay, so to your point.

And this is when, when I read this, I was like, oh, no. again, it was just a cavalcade of being, like, depressed. Everything, every other preview I read, right? This is from Kevin Pelton and Zach Crams seven things to watch in the finals. They had this stat in their article. And as I'm reading it, I was like, oh, God. So first of all, they say in the last four games that Halliburton has played against Oklahoma City,

he is like taking his least amount of shots and he's like average. He's average like 12, 12 points, okay? And the regic sees I can understand it, but you can't, you just can't. And the assist numbers are low as well, but here it is. Remarkably, Halliburton scored just eight points on 10 shot attempts in 122 matchups when he was guarded by Lute Tort, according to genius IQ tracking. a hundred and twenty-two possessions, he shot it ten times and scored eight points. How many assists?

Better have 50 assists. That is Halliburton's lowest shot rate against any individual defender with a minimum of 50 matchups in that span. And then it goes on, and then this is when I was like, oh, no. Halliburton's highest shot rate.

conversely came when he was matched up against Jalen Brunson but the Thunder stout defense doesn't offer any similar targets whom Halliburton can attack like he did in the conference finals suffice to say the Pacer's point guard

must play much better and much more aggressively for his team to have a chance at a finals upset. I mean 122 matchups and he shot it 10 times and scored 8 points. I was like oh God. that is the torture chamber that's tough

that's the torture chamber but the thing is it's not there's no cat out there where it's like all right whoever cat's garden come up here and set me a high screen and I'll get it to switch there's none of that

we're gonna end up with Jdub in front of you I like that if I'm the thunder you're trying to find Chet that's fine Chet is so long you give me a little bit of space but that is and he might hit he might hit a couple 27 foot threes but honestly

if he gets past Chet if he gets past Chet Check and still block a shot We know this It's wing and corner threes We know what I mean It's gonna be We saw

Namhart knee Smith And fucking Bryant with three for three In Game 6 That was crazy All right What? Thomas Bryant who's only in there By virtue of I guess

Tony Bradley's injury Say that again out loud Just say what you just said Thomas Bryant is there because Tony Bradley's unavailable and he goes three for three it was like the NBA jam he's on fire

crowds going crazy I'm like okay all right just let's just go ahead and pack our bags and go back home no chance we're done we're done here if Thomas Bryant I mean the second Thomas Brian three I was like okay this is this it was kind of contested

too I was like this is over but and and that's the thing is like you do wonder on those kick You know, look, they're going to get those kickouts. You saw it during the Minnesota series, which is the, you know, swing, swing, Jaden McDaniels, wide open three in the corner. This starts the game. It starts the game with that. And it's like, he took five shots in the first quarter.

And you also, but on the other side, you see it with Dort. When Dore's hitting, he's hitting him, he's missing, he's missing. Right. You know, if he misses the first couple, he's just, the shot doesn't look the same. It's a little hesitant. and like that is my that's my case for the Pacers is just we're hot from three

you're not that's my case for the pace and the other thing is that Rick Carlisle theoretically will be able to do the best job at game planning that we have seen

against this team bro I mean Mark Dagnall did some things in that Nugget series what? Yeah right but I'm saying if you have a chance

Rick Carlisle is as season to season get. He has seen all manner of great superstars that he has had to deal with. He has been the team that shouldn't win. Like, I mean, they knocked off the Miami Heat once upon a time, right? Like with their star and Dirk. And if you're trying to just have somebody concoct a game plan and the interesting thing will be what they do on SGA. And it does this just become a, all right.

We're living with the rest. If Jason Wallace and Lou Dort and J. Dubb and all those guys are beating us. But what we're not going to do, this guy, we just watched in the Western Conference finals, we just watched Shegills Alexander average 31 points a game in that Western Conference finals, right? Just was the best player by the one. He had a game and wasn't that efficient either. He still ended up at like 25 or whatever, but he had kind of like a bad game.

But he's the best player by far, right? It's like, all right. Are they going to just decide, hey, we will live with the results of the others? You even saw Memphis do this at the very beginning of the playoffs. Remember when he started off when he was shooting like 35, 40% for the field, whatever? But it was like, they were selling out on him. It's like, all right. Well, if the other guys do it, then the other guys do it.

But like, you don't get to be the MVP and the other guys go off too. And that was the, that's the cardinal sin of, what happened in the Minnesota series. It's like, bro, who are you stopping? We had a game where him, Chet, and J. Dubb averaged or scored 95 points. There was points at the Nuggets series where J. Dub looked very vulnerable as a second score. Whereas we cannot rely on him.

During the Nuggets, that game four, game five of the Nugget series was like, oh, we can't rely on him to be a second score when they turn off the faucet on SGA. But at the end of the Minnesota, there's no indication in the last couple weeks that he can't be that guy. But I want to continue to make a case for the Pacers here. All right. One thing I listened to Zach as well. And they said, oh, Nemhart is going to be on SGA.

And I said to myself, why? Why would you not start Neesmith on SGA? You put him on Jalen Brunson. He looked a little banked up in the last one, though, didn't he? Yeah, but he's got time now. He said he's got five days off and it's an ankle. I mean, you give five minutes off to an ankle to a lot of these guys in the tunnel and they come back looking like it's a first game of the season.

So, like, I believe that he will be healthy. For me, I'm putting knee-smith on SGA. And I'm telling N-Smith, just get into him, body him, make it hard, make him feel you at all times without fouling. And don't worry about him getting to the rim. Worry about him pulling up from mid-range. I'd be like, if he, if he finishes at the rim, it's not your problem. Your problem is him shooting threes and mid-range shots. because I can't tell you how many times that he actually is going to the rim and then his pulls up from 15, 16, and he is just butt naked wide open.

He's been doing it all year long. It's easier to said than done. But that's what I'm doing. If I'm the thunder, I'm saying, you have Miles Turner back there. Who I looked at it? Third in blocks a game during the regular season. Do you know that? Just third in blocks.

Why are you making that face? It's a fact. Because nobody's scared to go to the rim, though. Come on. I got it. It's a good counting step. What I am saying is, is nobody is looking up and seeing Miles Turner and going,

oh God, turn around. He's not Wembenyama, but from a philosophical, trying to make a case for the Pacer standpoint, I'm putting knee smith on, on SGA, and I'm saying,

get into him, make him work, body blows all the first three quarters, you're stronger and bigger than him, make him feel that, and just understand, he's going to pull up at mid-range, and if he does a he and gets past you, that's not your problem.

I agree with you, and it's like, look, if you, because as we're talking about, it's like keep the turnover's low and trade threes for twos more often than not, they're going to have to outscore them and the defense is on the thunders side, right? Like, you know that if it's, if we're having a stop war, this is in the thunder's favor, but can we turn this into an all-star game? because look, I think there's going to be some gaudy numbers put up in this.

Gaudy. With the pace, you've got the second and third highest pace in these playoffs. I think they're going to fly up and down. Are the Grizzlies number one? They were number one. They were number one. Hang a banner.

Hang a banner. Yeah, what does it matter? Yeah, right? I'll tell you this. Scotty Pippin Jr. had like 30-something points in those games. Like, they will run with you. They will run with you.

Like, they don't want to play half core basketball either. And so that is the one thing on the pacer side, which is they're willing to play full court basketball and they are a great defensive team. But this is where we dwell. We want to play. Look at our game chart. Every damn game we play is in the hundreds. This is what we want. We want to fly up and down. We want this thing to not be physical. We want this thing to not be an execution war. We want to have a foot race. And then we'll try to outscore you.

The Pacers have lost four games this postseason. Against the Bucks game three, they scored 101. Right. Against the Cavs game three, 104. The Knicks game 300, the Knicks game 594. It's like, it's very reductive, but it's like, yeah. No, they run off of makes. They run off of MAKs.

That's over. Like, you know, the Thunder at home watching game 6-2. they watch the game too. They've been doing it all playoffs. They've been doing it all year. I don't think it's under defense. That's the one thing I will say about the patient. I know there's a lot of big market bias.

The ratings are, let's just go ahead and get this out of the way. You and I love basketball. I don't care. I don't care about the ratings either. I don't. None of that money matters to anyone. And I know for sure they're going to be terrible

and everybody's going to be like the lowest rated finals and blah, blah, blah. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. Look, the Pacers are unlike anything else in the NBA. Nobody plays like them. It's breakneck.

It is break. It scores fast breaks off of maids. Like nine times. It just doesn't happen. Do you know how frustrating that was? It's fun as hell to watch, though. They are a fun team to watch. I know it was against your team,

but damn, man, they are fun. And they've had multiple 20-point comebacks. they've done this three three times they've been down seven points with 90 seconds left and they've won games. I mean, it's all just unheard of. So let's get back to roadmap for a Pacer's win.

I've got another one for you. Because I've been working hard on this because I've been consuming all the same thing that you've been consuming. It's like, how is this not a sweet? Yeah, how are they not getting mangled? Yeah, it's like, so let's give you this roadmap. Buck series, miraculous comeback victory.

Cavs series, miraculous comeback victory. Nick's series, even more miraculous than the previous two miraculous comeback victories. You get one in Oklahoma City of the first two. One of the first two. You split that, you head home, you get one of those two at home.

And then you've got a game five. You just need to take either five or seven. Like there is a way this happens. And, well, and. Oh, I'm going to speak your language now, Verna. I'm going to speak your language now. All right. Let me hear it.

The Thunder are a young team. They're young. And if they have to come home game five, tied two, two in the finals, with everything that comes with the finals, you know, the finals are just different. Like, it's like the rhythm of the game, the way it's structured, the half-times, like everything's just different.

It's kind of like a Super Bowl if you're a football player. It's different. And like the lights might get bright. If you lose game four to go to two, two, and a lot of questions are being asked for three days, I could see the youth of the thunder making them vulnerable. I thought you were really going to speak my language and say, you know what? If Eric Gordon wouldn't have gotten hurt, we'd be talking about Yokic versus the play. I mean, dude, I'm so tired of hearing.

I'm so tired of hearing, well, if the Knicks didn't. blow game one. What they did? They did. They did. They did. They blew game one. So.

And and and and Aaron Gordon blew out his hamstring. Whatever. That happened. Whatever. They did go to seven games against Denver. We are, we have been prisoner of the moment in that they just laid waste to Minnesota. But we did see a team compete with them at a high level. I think that everyone also forgot game three in Minnesota series.

They got waxed. About 40. Boat raced. Boat raced. Curb stopped. They got whacked in that game. And five, five was a great game. I'm sorry, no, four, four.

Yeah, but that was the one. Four was a great game that they just had answer after answer after answer. I did feel like they were, they had a handle on that game. And Minnesota hit a ton of shots without, without A.E. and Randall playing well. That was the DeVincenzo game, McKeel Alexander Walker game. McDaniel's game, like all of the others showed up in that one. But like, game three, they were just absolutely waxed. And this is the team that we've already crowned before the ball's been tipped in game one.

I'm not sitting here saying the Pacers are going to win, but let's show them some respect. And let's also respect the fact that weird shit happens in the playoffs. And weird shit constantly happens with the Pacers. Yes, yes. Pacers in six. Pacers and six, say it, say it, go on, Chicago. Look, I hope this is a very entertaining finals. I think, I think the odds are the odds, bro.

Whatever, yeah, I mean, whatever. I mean, going into the Knicks Celtic series, I thought the Knicks had no chance. I think the Pacers have no chance. But I just want to see, I want to see a really competitive first half of game one. No, no, no, no, you know what I mean? Like, I just want to, I want to see like the Pacers show up, hit some shots,

get that Thunder Crowd quiet, have them stand for like five possessions and it's six nothing. You know what I mean? And they're standing there. They're all looking around each other. Like, I want to see that happen. Trust the worst thing.

So the Denver series, right, you saw them split in those first two games. And so then it was like, oh, this is going to be great, right? But didn't that involve the Aaron Gordon dunk? What? Didn't that involve the Aaron Gordon dunk finished thing? Yes.

Yeah. No. That was the first round. That was Clippers. Yes. All right. I'm tripping. But he did, but he did hit a game winner.

Three. He's the game winning three. Russ hit him on the break. Yeah, yeah. Yes. When I was screaming at my TV, Russ, no. Yeah, right, right. So anyways, but the worst thing that could possibly happen is we already know when it's

going to be Indiana versus Oklahoma City. You're already like, there's a portion of the country. It's going to be like, oh, who cares. Right? The worst thing can happen is that Oklahoma City does what they've done a couple other times, which is come out the gates in game one and just bury them. And then we're all like, oh, God, no, this is going to be dead. If I'm looking at my phone, if I'm scrolling Instagram in the third quarter, then like, what are we doing?

Because they have buried people in some of these games. Like 40 point wins. Dude, you've read all the same stuff I've read. There's sometimes just like, the margin of victory. The margin of victory stuff, you're like, God, I think the Pacers should probably get a win in game one if they keep it in single digits.

Like, we should just give them the win. Here's what we're going to be rooting for. We are rooting that we get a game six in Indiana. That, to me, that's a win. For the NBA finals, if we get a game six in Indiana, then I'm saying as fans. Yeah, of course.

Anything less than that is. what everybody expects, which is a wipeout. It's either a sweep or a gentleman's sweep. So let's just hope we get to watch a game six with, you know, with the, with the crowd. Indiana's crowd is great. They're great. Oh, but two great crowds. They're great crowds.

They might be great crowds. It matters. Literally nothing else is going on in the city. It matters more. That might be part of it. But yeah, yeah. And I love, I also love, I love that they're like the, you know, these, both these payrolls are in the 20s.

like all the things they both so much of the way these teams were built you've got a combination of the homegrown guys but also you look bro the Pacers traded for their best player and they traded for their second best player and the in the Oklahoma City Thunder traded for their best player right he's the one making all this stuff go and so for years it was always small markets their only chance is just to get lucky in the draft. But you have these teams that have been so strategically built and targeted guys that ended up becoming so much better than anybody could have feasibly expected. Obviously, Gilles, Alexander, much more than Halliburton.

But people still thought the Halliburton deal was a great deal for the Pacers at the time when it was the Sabonis deal. And so you just look and you go, they didn't spend their way to get this. and they also didn't have to get lucky in the draft necessarily to have this happen. I mean, you know, Chet's the high draft pick on that Thunder team, but Jalen Williams is just a great draft pick in the teams, right?

Like, that's their other guy. Oh, look at the Pacers. Nemhard, second rounder, knee-smith, tossed off in the Celtics. And you see what they did in the off-season. They went and they made a trade for Alex Caruso, and they signed Isaiah Hartinstein. And it changes everything.

watching this next series what I wouldn't do to have Isaiah Hartenstein on that team right what I wouldn't do to have a big that could make a pass that could make a floater that could catch the ball he offensive rebound just as good as Mitch does he can just do other things

oh a few things before we get out of here what do you make of the uh Devon Booker's it feels like Devin Booker didn't get to have a say in the last round of coaching

with the Vogel or Budenholzer and so now it's okay we're just going to let you we're going to get one that you're comfortable with because we've tried it two different ways and that didn't work either time. It feels like this is their way of saying

just don't ask out. We're going to trade your buddy Durant, don't ask out. We're doing everything we can to bring you in. We just don't ask out. But here's what I would say if I was like Matt Ishby as advisor, I'd be like,

you can let Devin veto coaching hires, but you can't let Devin pick coaching hires. You see what I'm saying? If he has a problem with a decision that you want to make, then we can take his opinion in, but don't let him lead the conversation about where this should go. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Because that gets a little dice. It's like you can decide who's not going to be your coach, but you can't decide who is going to be your coach. And I would never say that out loud, to Devin Booker, but that's what I would say amongst the president of basketball operations, the GM and the owner. You know what I mean? Last thing before we get out of here,

because I want your expertise on this. You spent two decades producing shows at the worldwide leader in sports. Starring in them as well, but sure. And starring in them as well. Jesus. Over two decades, 23 years. You started off behind the scenes, producing all manner of shows.

You might have heard our boss, and longtime friend Bill Simmons lament that while inside the NBA did their farewell on TNT and then announced that they were going to be going to ESPN, Bill said they're going to F that up. So you have been there. For a long, long time,

I know Bill had experience there too. Resillo had experience there. So they got a good chuckle out of that. They have reason to believe that they do not think the show will be able to breathe in the same way and be able to be successful in the same way. What say you as someone who was a part of

trying to make these shows entertaining while also serving two masters with the sponsors and everything else that has to go into it? This has been discussed before, so I'm going to retread some just like stuff that's out there. But when you watch an ESPN halftime, they go to break, they talk,

then they toss to a second break, and then they come back to a VO, a voiceover, where you don't even see the people at the desk, and they show like a highlight, and they'll have Malika be like, Tyrese Halliburton, first half, 10 points and three rebounds,

and here he is, throwing an alley-up to Pascal Seaccom, and then Perk will be like, throw it down, Seaccom, and then they go to another break. So it's like literally like 20 seconds of like quote unquote content and then another break. So to the audience,

it feels like an eight minute break, but like on paper, it's a four minute break and a 20 seconds of content, another four minutes of break. That can't happen. And another thing is like, Sports Center has long time been like the consistent, constant moneymaker at ESPN.

I mean, I was there, there's a time, I don't know if you remember this, where they're like, we're going 24-hour sports center. It was like, I want to say like 2008, 2009, where they're like 9 to 11, it's these people on ESPN 1, 11, 11 to 1 is these people in ESPN 1.

Then we go to ESPN 2, and it's 1 to 3 with that. There's like, we're going to be sports center all day. We're never going to not have sports center on. 4 in the morning, 5 in the morning, no matter what, we always have a sports center. And sports center became from the ad sales group the sort of lead thing outside of like Monday night football or huge or finals or whatever. events. Because it was so consistent. It was something that constantly got numbers, and there was just sort of like an undercurrent of money coming in that didn't really rely on the ups and downs of

ratings of matchups on Monday football or who's in the Super Bowl or who's in the playoffs or whatnot. It was just a consistent baseline of advertising dollars coming in. And they always wanted to raise that floor. And they raised that floor by going to SVP, who I love, who does a great show, I fucking love his sports center. I love his sports center. He does a great job, especially after games of bringing in live interviews and bringing in press conferences.

And he has made, he's got that real estate really well done. And it's really come together. He's been doing it for years. It's great. He does a great job. It's the best thing they've got going to me. It's great.

I love his sports center, especially after a Monday night football game or after a big basketball game. Yep. They can't do that anymore now that they have inside. They're going to have to take the final, financial hit because really what it is, through the work in TV,

it's called your lead-in. If your lead-in is the finals game, those people don't change the channel. You know what I mean? Like, the lead-in is going to be a huge number, and that lead-in, it goes into SportsCenter. So SVP gets these huge numbers,

but they're quote-unquote sports center numbers. So an advertiser doesn't buy in to SVP's sports center, particularly. They buy into SportsCenter. So they raise the floor of the rating of sports center, by tossing right to sports interdrafter games. But they can't do that anymore with Inside the NBA. Because all of the moments, all the silliness,

all of the things that happen inside the NBA that really stick and jump out and stick out that stick in your memory, they're not in the rundown. They're not the funny tweets going to break. It's spontaneous and it's in between the guys and it's just them not having barriers or a, run down or roadblocks, they just kind of hang. Well, do you think there's a chance that they're just going to let them produce their own, though?

Because I was thinking about this the other day. Because if you ever flip on like McAfee in the mornings, there's no breaks. Like they're just running through. That's clearly not like they're letting them produce that thing. And you watch like the Manning cast on Monday night. It's not the same format, right? Like they kind of, I guess, Omaha Productions or whatever, Peyton's. thing does that.

Like so is it, do you think it's possible that it's going to be a lease out where they are. I think that's the deal. I think the deal is is, I honestly think. Well,

then I would be comfortable that they wouldn't screw it up because it's not under their thumb. Same producers, same production, same studio in Atlanta. The only, like I said before, the only thing that changes is the logo on the desk.

Literally. That's, I think that was the deal. I think I don't think those terms, if those terms weren't the terms, then they wouldn't have agreed to it. So they couldn't screw it up. They could screw it up.

it up if they tossed to SportsCenter and they put inside on ESPN 2. That's the problem. They just need to eat, they need to say, you know what? We're going to lose $30 million a year by not putting sports center on after games. I don't know what the number is. I don't work in sales. That's the one. They're going to lose money by keeping inside on.

That's the cash cow. That's the cash cow. Yes. They're going to lose money by not tossing to sports center. That's why they go to SportsCenter. If you worked on NBA countdown, you're sitting there at the desk. Like, they go to sports center first, and then maybe you might have a segment eight minutes into Sports Center after they've gone to break for three minutes. So you get one thought apiece and then you go home. It's interesting.

But under the new world, it's going to be the game. They should go the game to inside and stay on inside for half an hour or an hour because they're best when they're just talking. Well, and it's interesting because I think that, you know, Parkley was acting like he's only on there for a third of the time and whatever. And so maybe they try to schedule it like where they're doing Saturday night games. I don't know what the schedule is going to be like. You know what I mean? They do prioritize. How do I explain?

There's not all NBA countdowns are treated the same. And you notice this sometimes, and I love these people. Sometimes you're like, oh, it's Wendy and Malika tonight. You know what I mean? You're like, oh. You know, they have Wednesday night games. Yeah. And then they have Saturday.

But it's the ABC games. Then when they go to ABC after football season, that's when you're going to get, they might really just use them as like the A team, and you might get a more NBA countdown-ish B team on the Wednesday night games. Gotcha.

You know, because the ABC games are the ones when they're like, because when Magic was on Countdown, for example. Right. It was like, okay, we'll look at the schedule that we got. Magic's not going to be at 100% of these. He's going to be at 40% of these.

So we've only got 30 magic bullets, pun not intended, fire, we're going to fire them on the ABC games on Saturday and Sunday prime times. And I think that's what you're going to see the full Barclay. I think the Wednesday night games between, you think it'll still be good. Yeah, because it's the same guys in the same studio with the same production. How can it not be good? Like this whole farewell to it to me is like, they're really saying farewell to the T&T executives.

But what was crazy is, yeah, because they were like, the whole crew is coming. Yeah, everyone's going to be with this. Not even like they're saying goodbye to the TNT people. Also, like, I don't have the highest opinion of ESPN executives. I mean, I like most of them. But no one's going to walk into that room and be like, all right, guys, we got to reinvent this show. We got major changes. Here's my PowerPoint presentation.

You know what I mean? Who's doing that? Who's walking in there being like, I've noticed, let's say, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats. I've got some ideas. Like, no one is doing that. No one is doing that to the inside the NBA show. No one. No one.

I know. And honestly, it's the one. I mean, of all the sports, they're the one that nailed it. They're the ones that have gotten it. You know, they've gotten it right? It's not always good. I think, you know what I mean? I think people have got.

I think the highs are high, but people forget there's a lot of like regular season games where the guys don't care. They're mailing it in. I got it. You're talking shit about the game. And I'm kind of sitting there being like, guys, like you're supposed to be the ringleader of the circus. And you're like, you're not really selling me the acts. You know what I mean? But they're still entertaining.

They're fantastic. But like, I think people, I, I think people's perception of the show is higher than what the show actually is on dayday basis. It's a great show. But, like, I watch it all. You know what I mean? It is also funny to, like, I've just been on social media since that last game. I've seen a thousand of the clips of it's like, what was your favorite moment for me inside the NBA? And I'm, like, every time I see it, I'm like, that is super hilarious.

but like the show's not gone. And it's not going anywhere. It's such a weird feeling. None of those moments are planned though. When you watch those moments, like none of that is like the producer had an idea. They worked out for three weeks and like they ran this tape that was hilarious. It's always just like spur of the moment stuff,

which is a tribute to the talent on the set. But it felt like everybody was doing like your favorite Seinfeld moment after the finale. And it's like. Yeah, it's coming back next week. Next Thursday, 8 o'clock, NBC. be there. They'll be doing like pregame for ESPN next year. Do you know what I did love seeing though. Let me hear. Shail and Anthony Rose at the pregame.

Yep. Ealing Anthony Rose there for all the pregame on inside the NBA on TNT. Sit front row at the game. You think he'll be back in the mix? I don't know. Ask him. He will be. You just saw him at this golf tournament thing. I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about.

I do have to share one thing before we go. Let me hear it. I did it again. Game six. You were mean to your wife? It was Saturday. I got three TVs in my apartment. One is in the nursery where the baby was sleeping.

One is in my bedroom where I was going to watch the game. Internet didn't work back there. Tech issues. So I have to watch in the living room where my wife, her sister, and her best friend, shout to Auntie Denise and Auntie Zoe. And my twin daughters were playing the game of life. So I had to put my chair, on the other side of the coffee table

and watch the game on the television. Because I can't go to a bar. Because bars is like, it's just insane. Like I can't focus at all. So I've got the volume up to 100. They're playing the game of life behind me.

The twins are arguing about stuff. Like, oh, my salary, this is my job and you cheated. I had a boy, not a girl. And the aunties are starting to argue and getting loud. They're having a good time. And the next started, the second half started to fall apart.

I'm like, when is bedtime? I thought you guys were going to bed. It's 930. If you're not your soul, I started to fucking lose it. And I thought about this show. I was talking about telling you about what I did it before. And I can't even change it. I did it again.

I did it again. I hate myself so much. I will say this, but no one here has like I haven't cared about something. Look, the Oklahoma City destroyed the Grizzlies months ago now. The only thing I hadn't even thought about the Grizzlies until, like, Like last week, my daughter comes in and she's like, Dadda, does Taylor Jenkins still live here? And I was like, I don't know. Great question.

I was like, I think so. Like, you probably hasn't sold his house yet. Yeah, probably not. She's like, it was him, mama. And I was like, what? She's like, I just saw him at Whole Foods. The first time I thought about him in weeks. She's like he's like.

She's like, he's not the coach anymore. And I was like, no, he's not the coach anymore, sweetie. He still got to get his whole foods. You know what I mean? Yeah. He's not against 365. Are there any offseason Grizzlies rumors? Is anything happening? No.

Not yet. I mean, you got to wait until get the off season. We will. When are we coming back? Wins the game. All right. Thursday night, we are going to record right after game one of the NBA final. Oh, shit.

Hopefully it's going to be great. I, well, let's let. Hey, it's going to be great. Anything that's not a runout. Anything that's not a runout. Let's pray that Thursday night we are talking about competitive basketball and what can happen going forward and not, oh, my God, the Thunder just beat somebody else by 30. I think we will. I hope so.

I think we will. I think that the, I've read and seen all the stuff that you have and all the smart money is on the thunder, blowing everybody out all the time. But like, man, weird stuff happens. especially with the Pacers. I just have, I don't, I'm not going to pick them to win the series,

but I, what I've consumed in the last 48 hours, I think it's been disrespectful to the Pacers. And you know, the long, as we said,

we just want there to be a game six. The longer a series goes, you never know. Like, you can play a game six and then the next thing you know, one of your best players in Aaron Gordon

isn't there for game seven, right? Like, that stuff happens throughout this. We have had pretty good health, but I mean, like you can also go, and you could say, man, maybe the wolves wouldn't have even been there.

If Curry doesn't get hurt, maybe we can do this a hundred different ways. But that is the way these things go, right? That is the way typically these things go. It's like the longer the series goes, the more up to chance these things can become. Yes. And I think it's important for the paces win or lose to be competitive in game one. Absolutely. Especially to start the game.

And there's a lot of time off beforehand, a lot of time to plan for. it. A lot of time to get healthy. So here's a, it's not a prediction, but something I would love to see happen. I want to see the Pacers get up like 8-0 and Dagonal call a timeout.

And the fans to be like, can we sit down during the timeout? Or do we have to stay standing? And then I get to fire off my, I told you they were fetuses text. I just wanted the fans to be standing the whole time to be like, could we sit down? Like, we're going to commercial break.

Can I sit down? stand back up when they play again or do I have to stand the whole time? I'd love to see that. Keep shooting hot, NEM Horde. All right. Jacoby, we will reconvene on Thursday night. Thanks to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Thanks to our man Tucker and Jacoby.

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