The Mismatch - The Celtics Blow Out the Heat, OKC Upsets the Lakers Again, and a Busy NBA News Week

Episode Date: November 5, 2021

Verno and KOC start by talking about upset wins on Thursday night by the Celtics and Thunder (1:03). Then they discuss all the major news items that have been reported this week, including Damian Lillard’s meeting with LeBron James and Anthony Davis in the summer (28:09), the racism and misogyny within the Phoenix Suns organization (41:36), and Ben Simmons not seeing team physicians (55:03). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The ringer gambling show is here to help you place your bets on the biggest sports around the world. Join NFL analyst Warren Sharp on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays with guests Chris Vernon, Ben Solac, and Joe House to guide you through the NFL betting landscape. Each week, they'll cover everything from spreads, game totals, and parlays to player props, futures, post-game reactions, and more. Check out the ringer gambling show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And join me as he does every Friday from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin Obama. Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Clyan, Kevin O'Clyan, Kevin O'Clymer, Kevin O'Candlein, Kevin O'Brien. What's going on, buddy?

How are you doing this Friday? Everything's good. This has been quite the eventful week, as is the case with many of our podcast. If we talk somebody up, they disappoint right after. And on Tuesday, we talked up the Miami Heat, who had a historically great point differential through the first seven games of the season. It was 16.7, which was, you know, it held for the season would blow the doors off,

the highest point differential ever recorded by a team. But again, small sample size. So we talked them up, worried about the Celtics after the Marcus Smart comments, the player's only meeting that was not a player's only meeting took place. Celtics got back all. on track and shocking win last night against Miami. So part for the course.

We talked down Boston. We talk up Miami and then we get last night's result. Yeah. And there we go. Yeah. We made it happen. Chris. We fixed the Celtics.

Nothing to do with their players only meeting, which was really, I mean, how many like first three weeks of the season players only meetings have there actually been? I know Woj said in his. initial report that it wasn't exactly productive. It seemed like the results were productive on the court, played their best defensive game of the season,

but how long lasting are any lessons learned or insights and opinion shared from that meeting? That still remains to be seen, but that was one great night for Boston for sure. I once covered a player after it was reported that there was a player's only meeting. And he said to me, players only meetings are for teams that

suck. That's all you need to know. And he goes, I've never been on a team that didn't suck that had a player's only meeting. And I was like, oh, well, interesting. Tough. That's tough. Whether you want to take it with a grand assault or not. And Kevin, with that, what we're going to see is, is this a temporary boom? Like, you know, they had this meeting. They rallied together and they're playing really well. or is it something that is going to last for the team? And the really tough part is much greater concerns than anything they've fixed recently

is the Jalen Brown stuff. Because as we've talked about throughout the years on this podcast, hamstrings are an incredibly difficult thing to deal with, any kind of muscles because it's just tough. And it's frustrating because typically what you have in a situation is you have the injury, you have the diagnosis, you have the timetable and or surgery, and then you have the recovery, right, the rehab, and then they come back. Hamstrings, it's just indefinite usually, right?

And he's twinged it now. And so we will see. But the problem becomes that this is not only, this isn't the first time for Jalen Brown. And it says that he had this right hamstring tightness. He appeared to bother his hamstring on a play in the third quarter. And then it said he had some tightness. He has a little history with stuff over there.

So we want to be cautious. We'll check it out tomorrow. We'll know more tomorrow. And so we will find out. But it's unknown if he's going to miss any games. But it's just something to monitor because. he's obviously essential to that team and it's something that's bothered him in the past. And we know hamstrings, you know, they've changed the course of NBA history, literally,

with playoff guys having to miss playoff time. And it's also something not to screw around with because if it does get strained, that can be a very long injury that you just have to give time to. Yeah, I mean, and ultimately for Boston here, you know, if Jalen Brown does miss some extended period of time. He's been, you know, every other game, basically, you know, top 10 quality score. And then he, you know, sometimes we'll have an inefficient night and an elite night

and an inefficient night. But you're missing out on those elite nights from Janeland Brown. So for this Celtics team here, look, dude, on paper, I still think this team has a hell of a lot of talent on paper. And it's just about getting it. right and getting it right includes jalen brown being on the court and being able to develop that chemistry with teammates or getting to see you know what changes need to be made to the roster um no jalen brown hurts a lot especially with how deep and loaded the eastern conferences uh that just

puts more of responsibility on chason tateem to bring it every single night and you know i mean last night it's kind of funny selthics win that game despite tatem going three for 13 despite brown going five for 14. It's like an overall team win in the sense that the defense is what really, you know, fueled them to victory. Well, and, and the heap missing a million shots and a million threes. Nine of 41 from three for Miami. That's outrageous. And even 13 of 19 from the line. I mean, they, they didn't shoot a lot of three throws and they missed, you know, they, they hit under 70% of them. Duncan Robinson might have had the craziest line you've ever seen. Oh, my God. Is it five for those that have not seen this in the box.

scored last night. Duncan Robinson was 5 for 17 in the game. He was 5 for 17 from 3. He shots. It's the only shots he took last night. He took 17 threes. But yeah, to your point, Kev, given what

has taken place with the Celtics this week, if I would have told you, hey, Kev, on Thursday night, there's a Miami Boston game. Tatum and Brown are going to go 8 for 27. I mean, what is the amount of money you would have put on Miami, like whatever you possibly could. And so you're right.

I mean, there's a lot of missed shots for Miami, but also an outstanding defensive effort. And that is hard. That is effort. And that is part of what people had complained thus far about being missing from that Boston team so far. Right. Anyway, yeah, good win for them. Right. We'll see if it's a blip. And obviously, we've got to monitor the Jalen Brown situation. A couple other things that we got to get to from last night. Oklahoma City now has two wins and they're both against the Lakers. And, you know, they're going to have.

So funny. I can't get over that. It really is. With the abdominal strain that LeBron has, he's going to be out for a while. Yeah. And one of the things that we talked about was, and everybody. did. You have this issue of at the ages that they are and the injury histories that they have,

that AD and LeBron are probably not going to be playing anywhere close to 82 games. And even when healthy are probably going to rest here and there throughout the year. That being said, we thought that that's where the Westbrook thing fills in the gaps, right? That these guys are going to be able to sit without some kind of massive downturn that they don't have to have both of them playing in order to win. And instead, that game last night comes down to the very end. Westbrook wildly just drives and loses the ball completely out of bounds.

And then with a three at the end of the game, just a colossal brick. No ball movement, nothing. Not to mention the poor off ball defense on the cut to the rim by OKC. Horrible, just a horrible. Clueless defense. That's what it was. Clueless. For anybody that fell asleep, go look at the Alexander, Shea Gilders, Alexander 3.

That he hit. That logo three. Oh, my God. Dude, he made some ridiculous plays in that second half. just ridiculous. From the L. In Lakers. Yeah.

I couldn't believe he shot it. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's Avery Bradley. And Avery Bradley is like, I don't know, five feet away from him. Yeah, not expecting it.

The pickup point, he's telling the defense, hey, your pickup point needs to be higher. I'm going to take this shot. But I mean, Avery Bradley is, what,

five feet past the three point line. And three feet from Gil, I mean, Gilder's hitter. He had to have been eight to 10 feet behind the line. I think, I mean, that play was spectacular to see from SGA. My favorite play from him in that second half was I think like five-ish minutes left. He, you know, he was in pick and roll.

And just the way he just kind of methodically got to the rim, like a slight hesitation on 80, then a speed burst. And then like like the timing on his Euro step was like just offbeat. And it just threw off to help defenders inside. I believe Austin Reeves and Russell Westbrook to get an open layup. It was just the way he manipulated the defenders with, with his movement because he's so unpredictable with his movements. And that's what made that pull up three from the logo.

It was unpredictable. SGA, it's, it's hard to know what direction he's going to move because he's kind of like so herky, jerky, yet fluid at the same time. He's such a strange player. But I love watching him. I really love watching Gildes Alexander. He does some fun stuff on the court. dude. He really does.

Outstanding player. He's great. Tom, Tom Haberstro this morning. Oh, I know. I had that stat ready too. Chris. I know it's coming. This is a great stat. He tweeted Russell Westbrook loves this shot. Since his MVP season, Westbrook has taken more tie or go ahead three pointers in the final minute of games than any other NBA player. His stats on those shots. 8 for 42, Chris. 8 for 42. 19%. Are you kidding me?

Stop taking so many shots. Pass the ball. Do what your best at. And also, please focus on off ball defense and stop making silly mistakes. Come on. It's so solvable, Chris. These are solvable flaws. It just annoys me.

Like, he's a great player. he can be even better. Just fix it. Fix it. This is, uh, that's called the I got this. I got this. 19%. That's tough.

I mean, like you, you and me are on kind of different ends of the Russell Westbrook spectrum, Chris. Well, I'm not defending this. Uh, uh, well,

it's like, come on. I mean, I mean, I'm glad, that we're on the same page here. You think I'm going to be like, Kevin.

it's 19% come on. I mean, look, he's, he's making one of five. What's that game of zones thing that they have us, arguing, what is that you say in there? Russell Westbrook, he's a star. I trust Russell Westbrook to take the shot. And I'm like, Russell Lesberg shoots, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

And the fireball comes and kills us. Yeah, he gets us. Yeah. Whatever happened to that game of zones. They, uh, stop doing it. Why? I mean, I don't know. Game of Thrones ended.

I don't care. I want it back. Yeah. I know. I think it's going to be very tough for any series to match that. I think they could have kept writing original material for it. Like, you don't need Game of Thrones to make Game of Zones. And not only that, they're bringing those game of Thrones, you know.

Yeah. Pre-shows, you know. And there's going to be a movie. There's going to be so much material out there. Anyway, bring it back. Bring it back, boys. Westbrook thing, an absolute debacle down the stretch last night. And it just speaks to, hey, are they going to be in the same kind of spot that they were last year,

which was not with a great seed that is reflective of their talent level. It's possible. You know, I mean, it's a team that. Or maybe it is reflective of their talent level. maybe we'll see i mean the the okayc having their two wins against them is absolutely hilarious it's comical and it's also pathetic for the for the lakers right laker fans are already like russ has not won them over let's just say that no no he is not won them over it's because it's because of stuff like last night dude i mean i mean i mean and i've meant it for years this

dudes are great player who does some of the stupidest stuff on the court, man. I'm telling you, he's the NBA's Brett Fav. He does this magical stuff. He does incredible feats of greatness on the court or on the field. And then he throws an interception. Yeah. A backbreaking interception to lose the game for the Packers or the Vikings or the Jets like Fav did throughout his entire career. Russell Westbrook does the same damn thing. He does amazing. He does amazing. stuff on the court and then he screws it up sometimes. And like, I respect the guy. I love to watch Russell Westbrook, but the play, the turnover, the three and the, the defense. The defense is the one that bothered me most, Chris. What was Russell Westbrook doing on that play leaving his

assignment? He just floated away. He's so aloof on defense. It just, it just annoys me, man. Like, it really does. It's so solvable. Just lock in. lock in, especially in those moments. Another thing that has taken place since we last spoke is the Atlanta Hawks struggles continue. This is through nine games. And it's not like they're behind the eight ball, but they're four and five to start off the season. And they look so good that first night against Dallas. We didn't really know what to make of it.

A lot of it was criticisms of Jason Kidd. But then, you know, their losses are to Cleveland to Washington, to Philadelphia. and to Brooklyn, those were all on the road. And then last night, they get pasted by Utah on their home floor. So that was their first home loss. But more concerning, I think, is you had that opening night, you know, win. Your other wins are against Detroit, New Orleans, of course, without Zion, and then the Wizards at home on Monday night.

And, you know, we talked about this a lot. And I talked about this regarding the Phoenix Suns this year. and I said, it's going to be harder simply because, and there's a whole other layer to there, you know, how difficult it's going to be for them anyway. But I got some, not a lot, but I did get some people recoiling at me saying about the sons that you only get to sneak up on everybody once. And I believe that wholeheartedly, that when you have been a morbin frantic, and you haven't done anything for the longest time.

And then all of a sudden you become, in their case, an Eastern Conference Finals team, well, then you come back the next year. And when people see your name on the schedule, it is treated differently than it has been in the past. And in fact, to that point, Trey Young even spoke about this, regarding this year.

And he said, we are no longer the hunters. Obviously speaking about the position that they were able to be in last year. It's the regular season. I'm not going to lie. It's a lot more boring than the playoffs. You've got to find that motivation to play like it's the playoffs. And then he said a lot of guys are learning that this year.

He said it's tough trying to rally some of the teammates during early in the season because it's not like the playoffs. And that's an element of it too. When you play in those incredibly high stakes games with those atmospheres, and then you come back during the regular season, and you just figure, we're going to be a playoff team, then until you do it, those regular season games matter a lot to you, right? Because you've never been there.

And then once you do it and you have success there, it can have this effect where it's like, well, this isn't as fun. But until you get there, you're fighting to get there. You know, when you lose a game to a team that you shouldn't, it matters a lot more to a team that hasn't done anything. Like, I promise you,

nobody lost any sleep on the Lakers last night. Nobody. Yeah. But for a team that's like, fighting and know there's going to be scratching and clawing to try to get in the playoffs, when they lose to OKC, they do lose sleep because they look back and they said, that's one that we let get away. And wins matter so much more.

And so now they have gone to the hunted by virtue of their success. And it hasn't started off all that well, even though they have talent, they have depth, they've got all the pieces, Tray's not going to the line. I mean, I think he's been to the line 10 times in a game, whereas that was rather commonplace. Trey's down two seasons ago, 9.3 free throw or tennis per game. Last season, 8.7, down to 5.6 per game so far this year. And it affects the offense. There's no question.

It affects the offense because so much revolves around him. And as we've talked about, I absolutely believe that lack of free throws does. does hurt guys get into a rhythm that they did get into by going to the free throw line frequently. That even if you missed a couple shots, all of a sudden you get to the free throw line, you take the breather, you watch the ball go in a couple of times. Now they get back on rhythm. And so that's an effect too. But I do think it's more of now people see Atlanta.

And it's not like, oh, yeah, Atlanta, we can, you know, we'll win this one. People don't feel that way anymore. And, you know, this is what happens. As I've said, you only get to sneak up on everybody once. You know, some of these teams are benefiting from it. The teams that get better, right, a lot better, especially at the beginning of the season, then they get to Cleveland.

People over, you know, everybody's just chalked up wins against Cleveland for years. Cleveland will beat you now, right? Last year, Charlotte, people just, chalked up wins against Charlotte. And Charlotte was good at the beginning of the season. And next thing you know, you've lost games at Charlotte. And we'll see who this year's teams are. Cleveland's obviously one of them in the early season.

But the reverse is true too. You don't, you don't get to do that twice. Yeah. Now you're good. Yeah, I mean, Tray said it last night. We're no longer the hunters. I thought one of the interesting parts in Tray's quote last night, after he said we're no longer the hunters, he continued.

It's regular season. I'm not going to lie. It's a lot more boring than the playoffs. You've got to find that motivation to play like the playoffs. I read all the. I read this whole thing. I thought that was a transparent and honest comment. Like it's partially as you're saying that you're the team.

Everybody knows what to expect now. They get a whole year of film on you. They know not to take you lightly. You're the team that is like, you know, the hunted now. You're not the hunter. but also the regular season is boring. You know, so like is the team also having a hard time getting up for games, staying intense on defense, the way they did last year,

the way they defended as a whole unit. The team's also had some injuries through training camp, preseason, start of the regular season. How much is that a factor? How much is the other thing that I'm thinking about is sometimes after a team has success the first time, you know, guys want the ball a little bit more. And like Atlanta has a roster full of players who can do something off the dribble in addition to being that fit, that good fit next to Tray Young, spot-op threes, three and D. D.N.D.D.D.R. R. Rettish, DeAndre Hunter, Danilo Gallinari, DeLan Wright, Kevin Herder.

These are a bogdan Bogdanovich. These are a lot of guys that can all handle the ball in some capacity. And, you know, sometimes their offense just feels really disjointed. their defense is not on the same level it was before. It's been below average so far this season. I believe it's bottom 10 in defensive rating after that Utah game. I think they were 18th entering that game. But I don't know, dude. It's just a lot of things with Atlanta right now.

It's a lot of different issues. And I'm not sure which one is a cause. It's probably just a combination of all of them. The concern is like, how fixable is this with the current roster, Chris? Is this something where, you know, they get back to. to the level that they were with the current roster they have, or is there a need for some consolidation with the amount of talent and depth that they have and turning like three into one?

That, that to me is like the big solution. I'm just not sure that's there for them this season just because the trade market is so flat. There's just not a lot out there that makes sense for a team like the Hawks. But I lean towards that being a solution, but ultimately, like depth is still good to have. But there's something's off. Something's off.

The other thing that is odd about them, Kev, is they stunk last year and then became awesome. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like it literally flipped midseason. Mm-hmm. And it could again this year. Could.

It could. You could. You know what I mean? But they changed coaches last year. And so last year, even more so than the sneaking up on people, they had the added advantage of it didn't happen for a couple of months, honestly, until they were somebody that you needed to, they were somebody to be trifled with.

It took a while. And then, you know, people started to notice, hey, Atlanta's pretty good. But, you know, now it's a different deal with the target on your back. That's for sure. And the trade thing is a, it's a deal. You know what I mean?

When you go from one of the most devastating scorers in the league, him and Hardin are absolutely having a different time during these games. There's no question. There is an adjustment that has to take place with them that is greater than their peers, and that is because they are responsible for this. Harden, you know, playing for fouls, both of them, playing for fouls rather than playing for buckets. and Trey's big move was

how many times did he come around those screens and just stop and let you run him over or start taking a shot as soon as you did come over the screen. That's not a play you can do anymore. And that happened regularly. You know, then you just go to the line, make three free throws.

Yeah, it's tough. I mean, Trey, this is probably an adjustment period for Trey. He's also not shooting the three well right now. Right. You know, he's, I think 25% on the season. It's still so early. I mean, like you hit five more shots. It turns you into 35%.

But I mean, I'd still love to see Trey. I mean, like I just said earlier, they have so many guys that can handle the ball. I'd still love for Trey to embrace some stuff off the ball because he's a much better shooter off the catch from three than he is off the dribble. Like it's like dynamite. Some of the highlights are off the dribble. He's a far more efficient shooter off the catch. I would just love to see Atlanta. incorporate more Tray Young coming off of screens, hitting threes on the move, or just simply

getting opportunities spotting up. That allows him to rest. It allows him to get over the course of the long regular season to rest and just get more efficient looks. Maybe that helps that offense out sometimes getting different guys into pick and roll. They have enough bodies that can do it. I just love to see that dimension of Trey's game be really unleashed this year. But so far, it continues to be just a lot of on ball and then a lot of stationary, you know, standing around off ball, which I don't feel like that fully embraces what Tray can be.

And you just can never, you can never reciprocate that hunger. Once you have a lot of success, you know, it's almost like you're made men, you know, and it'll happen with Phoenix. It's happening with Atlanta.

Last year it happened with Miami. Miami was in the, NBA finals. They weren't any good last year, Kevin. I mean, they weren't. And then got run out in the playoffs. The Lakers screwed around last season. It wasn't the same.

I mean, it's just, I think you find this to be true of a lot of teams that have a tremendous amount of success, especially the ones that have a tremendous amount of success out of nowhere. And then next year. And that's why he said what he said, which is, well, this isn't, I didn't know the difference between the regular season of the playoffs until last year. You know what I mean? Everybody ain't screaming all the time.

I don't get to bow every game to Madison Square Garden or whatever, right? This feels like a small stage. The regular season's boring, he says. That's something. What an admission. We need to speak on this. A couple articles that have dropped this week since we last spoke. One, much.

more talked about than the other. So I'm going to get to the lesser-known one first, which is Chris Haynes and his article about Damien Lillard and about this meeting that took place with LeBron James and Anthony Davis. Now, you know, goes out of the way to say, hey, this wasn't a, you know, recruitment meeting because you don't want to get in trouble for tampering or anything like that. But obviously he is talking to those guys.

guys and was talking to those guys about his career and his plight in Portland. And it's fascinating to read that after he had this meeting with LeBron and AD and mulling a trade request as it were, he said, Bron asked me what I was thinking about my situation and I'm just, and I just told him what I'm telling you. I just want to be in a position to win it all. He painted the picture to me that if I were to leave, the situation could look like this. He didn't tell me to come to L.A.

He didn't say anything to me that I didn't already know other than what it could look like. I told him, I know if I were to play with y'all, I know it would work out because of my skill set and who I am and who they are, which is hilarious, right? It's like, hey, he didn't tell me to come to Los Angeles. We just talked about, hey,

What would it look like if it was me and you and Anthony Davis? It's like, what are we doing here? What is that? Is that recruiting? There's not a recruiting pitch, I guess. They just discussed it like players do. It's odd that this article is coming out now, right, about him. And he says, you know, I, you know, now if I were to move on and I get there and

it doesn't work out and then they decide to blow it up. Now I'm part of a deal going somewhere else. You look at some of the dudes around the league that were at the top of their game and they made one move and now they're on this team next year on another team and now they're somewhere completely different. As much as I want to win, I want to do it my way. And so let's find it interesting that like, you know, we're not that far into the season and we're kind of revisiting the whole

Lillard level of happiness and hey, he went and talking. to LeBron and AD in the off season. And it just speaks to, you know, he's struggled early, especially shooting the ball to start off this season. But it just speaks to one of those like, maybe this isn't going to go away, you know. It's already coming up again. Why are we talking about this again?

And you know Haynes has had the inside on the Lillard thing the whole time. I mean, Chris was probably at the meeting. He probably was. He was at Dames's wedding this offseason. It's a first hand account. Yeah. That's why it fascinates me, right? Like, why, like, Chris Haynes is writing this now, right?

Yeah. Like, if everything's Pitchie King and he's happy and he's committed and he's, you know. Doesn't I feel like a warning shot? It kind of does, doesn't it? Like, hey, I got options. It just, it just, it's just odd. I mean, with all that said, though, in that story, he did mention the Janus factor, him winning the championship with Milwaukee made him feel like, you know, winning it in Portland,

I would cry. There's nothing that would be better of a career achievement than doing that. I want to win in Portland. Like he has those quotes on the record that he, you know, he said he's 10 feet in when Sixers fans were chanting, you know, we want Dame. And he says, I'm 10 feet in Portland. I'm a 10, 10 toes in Portland, not 10 feet. 10 toes in Portland, you know, like he's saying all these things. Well, and maybe, you know what?

And you could take it the other way. The other way is this is Haynes doing this, writing this at this time, because it's like the meeting took place a long time ago, right? A long time ago, yeah. Okay. So why, but it's another, if you want to view it the positive way, which is totally reasonable. Haynes is writing this as to show another commitment of Damian Leller. Yeah.

Like he has said he's loyal. He said he's 10 toes down. He said he's going to do this. Now, let me tell you, this is a guy that went and talked to LeBron. He talked to AD. He talked to other people. He didn't make a public trade request. And yes, he did talk to people about whether he should leave or not.

And the choice he made was to do this. And so it's almost like, I took it one way, but it probably was meant to be reverse PR as to say, stop talking about his commitment to Portland. Here's a story of if he wanted to leave, he would have left. Yeah. If he wanted to go somewhere, he would have gone somewhere after he talked to LeBron and AD. He didn't. So everybody, he's staying.

And so everybody could be it. be quiet about it now. I mean, it could be that. I mean, from I've talked to people around the league about, you know, what from a strategic point of view, what's happening here, you know, he goes from making these, you know, vague comments about, yeah, I don't know how long I'll be here like weeks before the season to suddenly I'm all in. And like there are, there are front office executives around the league who think this is a, a strategic choice by the blazers. dames, you know, group and all that in order to create leverage for the organization because right now around the league teams just want Dame.

They don't want to see Jim McCollum. They don't want Yusuf Nurich. They're like, we're going to wait for Dame to demand a trade. And like especially the Philadelphia 76ers, like, Mori is still all about waiting for Dames. So this is about, you know, in the eyes of some executives around the league, this is about creating leverage for the Blazers in order to make a move that can, help the team with Damien Lillard on it.

By committing and showing that you're all in and every single facet over the course of time that diminishes or could diminish, they hope the desire from other teams to go for Damian Lillard and instead say, okay, we'll take C.J. McCollum, okay, we'll take this guy, that guy. Yeah. I mean, how effective is that? I don't personally think it's all too effective. Winning, winning games is what will be effective. If Portland wins games. But if they don't win games, all this, you know,

potential public stuff, what they're saying to the media and everything, what they're leaking out, I don't think that's really all that affected at the end of the day when they're three and five and their defense stinks. But this was a dame leak, you know, like this only comes out if he speaks on this.

Players meet with each other all the time. He made this known he wanted this out to say, in no uncertain terms LeBron and AD recruited me and I didn't go. I met with them. They recruited me, talked about what it would look like. That's what I'm saying.

That's what I'm saying. It's a dame league. There are people around the league who think it's all coordinated in the sense that we want these things out there in order to gain leverage for the Blazers because he does want to stay. I mean, like I think it's authentic that he wants to stay in Portland. He wants to win.

championship in Portland, but it's about building a team that can actually do that. So then everybody stops talking about. So everybody just shuts up about trading for Dame. Yeah. Or even thinking it's a possibility. Yeah, exactly. And I really think that's part of it. And like maybe it's also, you know, I think I think it's rooted in truth.

It's not like they're being inauthentic about it. He wants to stay. It's his preference. But they've got to be better. But they just have to be better. That's what changes things is winning. games. They're three and five. They're 20th in defensive rating. Like they, they need to be better. Their offense despite Dane being, you know,

horrible to start the year is still sixth. Their offense is still doing quite well despite the struggles of Dames. So it's about getting that defense right. It's about Damien Lillard getting back to the Dane we've watched for years now. And then maybe they can start racking up some wins. And then all that stuff about trading for name may indeed actually just get quiet. It could. I totally buy what you're saying. I totally buy this. But that, and it's, it's not unwise, right? Definitely not. Definitely not.

Look, bro. I like the strategy. If that's indeed, what's happening. I like it. We want to get better too, right? We want to build a title around you. We think you can be that guy. Here's the problem.

Everybody calls about you because they think you want out of here. So. Because of the stuff that was said over the off season. Right. Which was fair. And so he has done this massive PR course in 10 toes down. I'm staying in Portland. LeBron and AD recruited me.

And I'm still not leaving. I'm not leaving. Yeah. I told you I'm here, right? Like, and that gives you a chance because, I mean, at worst, people stop thinking that they're going to get you. If LeBron and AD couldn't recruit you, then why, why is D. Derele Mora sitting around waiting till he can get you?

Doesn't make any sense, right? You know what I'm saying? Perception-wise. We'll see, though, man. Like I said, yeah. At the end of the day, winning. That's what can get teams to just stop calling about you, winning. And until the team starts winning, I don't think the calls are going to stop.

I don't think teams are going to assume that Dane is going to stay. unless that team starts winning. I think that's fair. I will say this, though, Kevin, that right now in the, just the way the season has played out thus far, Utah is 7 and 1, got a great record, okay?

But then you look like right now, if you take a snapshot, it's Utah, Golden State, Dallas, Memphis. Those are the top four teams right now. So, I mean, we can't make too much of anything that goes on thus far. But it also speaks to nobody is awesome. You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, you might be three and four, but so what? Nobody is awesome if you're. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you're still in it. And the other thing is, who do you look at and say, we can't beat that team? Like, there's nobody that you say, we can't beat them, right? Memphis?

Look at Memphis. They'd get pretty scared. No, they did beat the crap out of Memphis. It's one of their wins this year. But no, I mean, like you look and you say, you know, if we get things right, we're going to be able to compete with any of these teams because nobody, there's not a 16, 17 warriors in this deal. Oh, no.

There's not even an early LeBron AD. It's a wide open championship race. It really is. Yes. And so wide open. You know, teams probably have less. interest in being extremely reactive and loading up to beat a certain team because some of the teams that have the best records at least thus far are not the teams that are going to have

the best record in the end, number one. And number two, even if they are, they're not teams that are proven that they can, you know, beat everybody. You've had some extenuating circumstances. And again, Golden State clearly has played great at the beginning. the season and they'll get clayback. We expect them to be very good. But it's not, you don't look at them and go

geez, if we drew them in the playoffs, we'd have no chance. He's still got Damien Liller, no matter what team, you know, what team you play. I mean, I still think Portland's two moves away. I think there are CJ for Ben Simmons move and something with Nirkich. Nurgich isn't the same guy. And I don't think the Nirkich Simmons front court would be great.

But I think if you're able to make two moves, which I know like that's probably, this might be two much 2K, you know, trading McCollum and Narkich. But I just think the Ben Simmons, Damien Lod fit would just be absolutely extraordinary. I really do. I think those two guys would be so fantastic to watch together. And then flipping Nerkich for some other type of big and maybe another wing. I don't know. I'm just, I'm just talking off the dome here. But I think there's like slight tweaks that can really elevate what Portland is. But they get a win, dude. They got a win by

January and February. They have to be a winning team at that point in the playoffs in order to be in a position where teams aren't just going to be like, yeah, we'll wait till the summer. Yeah, for Dame. We'll wait. The other article that dropped was much more talked about, I think, than the Lillard one. And that was the Robert Sarver article. Within NBA circles, people knew that this was coming out, even before I know Jordan

Schultz a couple weeks ago said there's a Sarver story. that's coming out and then Sarver and his group tweeted out some stuff, you know, preemptively. But people had an awareness that Baxter had been working on this and that it was going to come out. We understand from reading the article that probably got delayed more than a few times because of, what, four different, I think it says, letters from lawyers that came in. So Sarver, Sarver loaded up. before this thing ever even dropped. But great work by Baxter Holmes, first thing.

Second thing is the NBA has a tremendous issue on their hands of which they now have to deal with, as do the Phoenix Suns, for that matter, where they are going to go investigate on their own. And so who knows how long that will take or what the outcome is going to be, but that was the NBA's response to the article that came out yesterday. And the article as it chronicles the actions of Robert Sarver, I mean, it makes it deplorable. His actions are absolutely positively deplorable. And I'd encourage anybody to go out of their way

and listen to the episode of the real ones yesterday. Because I absolutely wanted to hear what Rajah had to say about this. So he and Logan, who do a fantastic job, I tuned it in. Ringer NBA show. Yeah, on the Ringer NBA show. And Raja at one point, he talked about how he didn't have that kind of experience, you know, a racial experience with Robert Sarver during his time there. But at one point he does, he tells a story and it's not meant,

I think he's just relaying a story. And it's not meant to. back up necessarily anything in the article. He's just speaking on his experience. And when I heard the story, and it doesn't sound like that big of a deal, to me it told me everything I needed to know about whether or not this guy should get any benefit of the doubt.

Roger tells a story about he's playing great. He's in his prime. and he wanted to get an extension, first contract. He loved it in Phoenix, right? So he goes out to lunch, and he goes out to lunch with Steve Kerr and with Robert Sarver, and they're sitting there, and Rajah says, me and my wife, family, we love it here. I want to be here long term. I want to get an extension.

I think I'm deserving of an extension. and Robert Sarver said, you want an extension? And he's like, yeah, I want to get an extension. And he says, I think you're deserving of an extension, too. But I'm not going to give you one. And you know why? And Rajah's like, why?

And he goes, because I don't have to. And I was like, as I'm listening to that, I'm like, pro. what a dickhead. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like what a thing. There's nothing you could tell me. The kind of guy that acts like that is the kind of guy I'll believe anything about.

Who does that? Who says something like that to somebody? Right. To me, that story illuminates the type of person that is. And that can be, and that's like a story about a normal interaction. It's a normal interaction. that's not that's not a he didn't think it was because of racism he didn't think it was or anything like that i mean there's plenty of stories in that you know baxter holmes talked to 70 plus people

for that story he probably gonna talk to 150 yeah i mean the stuff about robert sarver i mean i've never over the years ever heard any like specific stories about him but there's always been floating out there like yeah sarver's the next one the next owner to go down like ever since i got into media. That's always what it's been. Like, he's the next one. Um, so I mean, this is it. This is the story. It's here now and the NBA investigation will begin and to see if they can find proof of some of these incidents that are reported or other incidents that weren't reported, but they do uncover because I'm sure the NBA knows everything or will know everything, um, that they can based off their investigation. And this could change absolutely everything for the Suns franchise. Absolutely.

everything. Here's the other thing that Rajah said that stood out to me the most, which was he's got the group text with all the old sons guys, right? They're all still close. He said, the story drops and inevitably they're all going to be

talking to each other about it, right? Not one. Not one person was surprised. Yeah. Okay. That about sums that up. It tells me, there's not one person. There's not one guy that's like, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, like, we dealt with Robert.

He's not, you know, he's not who they say he is. Like, you know, James Jones, who's obviously the GM right now said, my interactions with Robert have never been like this and what, you know, and people that work there now. But the fact that Raja, like that all these people that were with the sons and played for the sons, when the story comes out, if you're a good dude and that story comes out, there's a lot of people that are like, what in the world? Yeah. I can't believe that.

Instead, nobody's shocked. Bro, there are shocking things in that story. Yeah. A lot of them. A lot of shocking things. The opening anecdote. And nobody's surprised. And nobody is surprised.

Dude, and some of his like, yeah, obviously he was able to respond to some of it through lawyers. Yeah. The other thing, all you need to know from reading it for those that take the time to, and I would encourage you to, it's fascinating. It is. The response to the passing around the picture of my wife in a bikini to the people that work there being, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is being misconstrued. This company had sent these items to my house. my wife tried on, you know, they were doing NBA merchandise now.

My wife tried on one of the bikinis and I was passing it around the table so that my business people could see. Was this something we'd like to carry in the team store? Like, bro, what lawyer thought that that was a reasonable excuse for why you passed around that picture? Like, anybody with the brain is like, shut the hell up, bro. I just, I would just like to see if this was the type of merchandise they would like in the store. In response to that story, that story within the Baxter Holmes report, one son's co-owner, one son's co-owner said the level of misogyny and racism is beyond the pale. It's embarrassing as an owner. Unbelievable.

That was in response to the story you just shared from there. And, uh, and from a former son's basketball executive, there's literally, literally nothing you could tell me about him from, from a misogynist. Nick or race standpoint that would surprise me. Well, look, the NBA does their own investigation and they find out what they want to find out. Yeah. He will no longer be the owner of the sons. The tough part is finding evidence. I mean, that's going to be the tough part.

Well, your evidence is going to be. If you can find a bunch of people to say this guy's a racist, you can't have, that can't be. You know what I mean? Yeah. That can't be. And I'm sure evidence exists. I'm sure it does. Videos, photos.

Matter. It's just a matter of time. You can't conduct yourself in that manner for that emails. I mean like the NFL mess that just happened. I mean, that's a complicated issue. I'm not like fully in tune with it. But like John Gruden lost his job. That's right. You know, based off of emails.

That's right. So an investigation will take place. Great work by Baxter Olms. I feel terrible for the sons. I will say it's going to be absolutely crippling for them. I know that you could say the right things. We just want to focus on basketball. But the way NBA organizations.

work, I'm telling you that entire building is the absolute, I mean, one of the most miserable workplaces, as if it weren't miserable a day ago, walking into there today. And that just affects everything about the whole place, the business office, the basketball office, everything. When this is going on and this is what everybody's talking about and then your players have to answer for it and just the people that work there. Everybody that gets a check from the Phoenix Suns today is in a different world than they were 24 hours ago. Yeah.

And it sucks for them. And I hate it for them. You know, I really do. I don't know. Absolutely. I mean, it's out of their control that they have a dickhead owner. That's right. Right?

And they have to deal with that just to, you know, to ride for themselves and their families. Well, and they still got to go through. And look, they still got to go through working for the people that they work for. which are people that he hired. And he's still in charge, despite this all going on. You think that's going to be a happy place? Holy mackerel. As if it weren't crap 24 hours ago, I can't imagine.

Yeah. And I feel bad for Suns fans too, for the fans of the team as well. Absolutely. You root for this team. You pour your heart, your energy, your love, your money into a team and organization that just made the NBA finals and had its best run in 10 years. and then this happens. Yep. Then like you find out that the owner that you've hated for years

is actually worse than you thought. It just sucks. It also speaks to how incredible that team was last year and Monty Williams was last year because it is just, it's so hard to achieve greatness with the terrible owner. Rajah even got emotional speaking about it and knowing what that environment was like

and saying, you know, you wonder if it could have been even better than it was, you know? Because of him at the top. Yeah. Could it have been, you know, did we get the most out of when you know everybody there is you can't get the most out of people when they live in fear? And that's how he conducts his workplace. And so if you're constantly fearful of your job, you're never going to be able to get the most out of those people. and so Rajah, he actually got emotional speaking about that.

And it sucks to think about. What could it have been? What if everybody wasn't walking around on eggshells and, you know, now that you know what you know, fearful of this guy, you know, scared of him. I can't get over the statement about like it was Earl Watson who created the toxic nature. Dude, Earl Watson was there for like a year and a half. He wasn't very long at all.

I think it's, what did it say? seven coaches in eight years and six GMs or something like bro what yeah yeah yeah earl watson was there for uh 33 games in 2015 16 82 games in 16 17 then three and 17 18 so a little over uh uh like one and a half full seasons um yeah he he he's the cause of the toxic culture yeah yeah he he's definitely the cause not not the guy that's been the owner for two decades but I don't know, man. Like, I'm so glad this story was written. Baxter Holmes is as good as it gets in terms of being like a capital J journalist.

I mean, he is a journalist, not just a sports journalist. He is a journalist. Baxter Holmes is one of the best doing it in any field. His reporting is thorough. It is in depth and it is careful. So with Baxter, I trust him as a reporter. And ultimately, like this story, like, I'm glad it was written because it sheds light on some of the people that were actually affected under his leadership, under him being the owner.

I just hope if this is indeed all found to be true, the NBA investigation does find this all to be the case. I just hope for Phoenix, this turns out to be the best long term for that organization if it does lead to the removal of Robert Sarver as their owner. You have another piece of news, and we're bearing this into the end because Lord knows we've, have spent an immense amount of time over the last couple of years talking about Ben Simmons, but this new story is just, frankly, odd. The 76ers are increasingly frustrated with Ben Simmons' refusal to accept organizational assistance to address his mental readiness to play. Ramona Shelburne was reporting on this.

Simmons has been working with team doctors to treat a back ailment. He has been unwilling to meet with team doctors to discuss his mental readiness. Instead, he has worked with mental health professionals. via the Players Association since the summer. So far, Simmons has yet to provide details of those meetings to the team. And then it says he's engaged with teammates and members of the coaching staff one-on-one,

but is not advanced to rejoining full-team activities. It's unclear if he will. They say they want to help him get mentally ready to play so he can return to the team. But they have no idea if that's going to be able to take place And so just a bizarre turn of events. And one of those where it's like, I honestly don't know how you handle this. And I think that's what the Sixers, like, that's the source of their frustration.

If a guy says, hey, I'm not mentally ready to play. And they say, okay, what can we do to help you get mentally ready to play? And then nothing is the answer, basically. Like, there's nothing you could do. Like, then what? then you get in this precarious situation where, and I'm not saying the kid doesn't have mental health issues. I don't know. What I am saying is if he does, look, it is it is hard to believe, let me just say this.

It is hard to believe that now after saying I'm not playing there, after not showing up, after not being in training camp, after dicking around when they did give him a jersey at training camp, then saying he, then he faked an injury. And now it's,

I'm not mentally ready. It's like, I mean, at some point, I'm sorry if the guy does have mental health issues, which is totally possible, but you do get a boy that cries wolf thing here. And now you're screwing around with this, you know, with the, I'm not mentally ready and they don't care about my mental health. Like, are you going to be mentally ready if they trade you tomorrow?

I think most people, you know, the most, even the least cynical of us would sit there and say, here's betting that he would be mentally ready if he was wearing another jersey tomorrow. Like that this is a play as to say, I'm not playing and you can't find me because I'm not mentally ready. you know tough this is a tough situation Kevin I don't know it is

I mean it's not like a you know Because you don't want to dick around with somebody's mental health No it's not it's not a sprained ankle It's not a sprained ankle It's not a broken arm

But there's gonna be another time When a guy really does You know need to get away He's got a he's got a mental health issue That needs to be dealt with And you know will be provided the same protections, you know, from team and from the NBA. But when you say, I'm not mentally ready, and then the team says, we will do anything we can to help you get mentally ready.

And then you deny that help. Yeah, I don't know. You know what I mean? It's, you want the help from the people you want to help from. It is your choice, whether it's, you know, a physical issue or a mental health issue. But, I mean, it's just complicated. It's complicated, you know, because. of all the family drama that they've had this the summer um i mean like it's all public i just

don't think it's i mean like should we say what it is you know that happened i mean i mean romola wrote a romano wrote about this i mean yeah back in april very serious family issues yeah yeah i mean back in april his sister olivia uh accused on twitter her half brother sean tribe of molestation when they were young and the whole family came out and denied that immediately sean Tribe sued her for defamation. It was ordered that she needs to pay $550,000 to Sean Tribe, their half brother for what she said about him. I mean, this is, this happened in September.

And Ben's in the middle of it. And Ben's in the middle of it. Exactly. So, I mean, like, he very clearly, like, we know the family's going through something. We know Ben Simmons is going through something. That's right. This is a complicated issue. I mean, like you said, Chris, you would hope that if he does get traded.

he just doesn't suddenly magically become, oh, I'm okay now. Yeah. Because I can't imagine what it's like. I can't put myself into anybody's shoes in that family. This is a challenge, what they're all going through. Here's the issue, though. I don't, he never used that as a reason for any of the,

that was never a reason why he was not playing for the 76ers. Because guess what, Kevin, if that was a reason that was given at the very beginning, if that was a reason that was given in his meeting, with the 76ers brass if that was a reason that Clutch was putting out there to everybody people would understand

yeah you would get you would get a level of you would get a level of compassion that was never what was said I mean but also part of it might be like data but part of it might be he doesn't want to shine it even brighter light on it that's this isn't something that this is buried at the end of an our podcast here

it's not something that like has talked about openly because it doesn't actually directly involve Ben Simmons it's between his sister and their half brother that's right um but like you know this might be the type of thing Ben Simmons doesn't want to put more attention on this himself you know by saying something publicly by you know releasing some statement by leaking something through media which I think is perfectly understandable I mean like if there is indeed a mental health issue that then you know he doesn't need to tell anybody it's already been no I Look, it had been reported. If it had been reported, it reported on ESPN.

It's not like it was just a sidebar. So it's not like it wasn't public. And you could have said that from the very beginning. Look, man, I've had a lot of stuff go on in my life. And I'm not. And I'm not okay. I'm not ready. Calvin Ridley just walked away from the Falcons.

Said I can't do this. I can't do this. I got to focus on myself, guys. You didn't see people go. them out there saying, you know, to hell with Calvin Ridley. They said, geez, man, go get better. Go get better. He was open, honest and transparent about what he's going through.

That's right. And so we'll see. But this is, it's a sticky situation for sure. Because they want to get him back on the court or want to get him back on the fold. And he obviously is not willing to do that. And in the meantime, the Sixers are seven and two. Yep. Off to a terrific start.

They're rolling. They are playing very good basketball. Last thing, you did come out with an article. I would encourage everybody to go check it out on the rigor.com about 10 breakout players based on the first couple of weeks of the season. As I read through the article, we've covered, I think we've talked about all these guys over the course of the last few shows and even leading into the season as potential breakout guys this year. when you are putting together that list, and you're doing the research for it, obviously we've talked about a lot of them.

There's obvious ones like Morant's exploits, like Heroes Exploids. Miles Bridges. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of those guys, when you look deeper into it, which were you more convinced of maybe than you were in the past that much better things are on the horizon? None of them, really.

None of them. You knew going in. None of them. I feel like the whole list. I mean, originally I pitched it as like most improved early most improved player of the year rankings. So there would have been like a number next to their names. Right.

One, Miles Bridges, two, Jomarin. And we instead made it a breakthrough players list. But really it was a most improved player list at the beginning when I pitched it. So that explains the order of some of these players on there, Chris. But, um, Hey, I, I did feel like in your article, I did laugh because my guy, Cole Anthony, he might as well have been quoting the mismatch podcast when he said the following. Oh, that's a great quote, isn't it? There, there was 14 dudes picked ahead of me.

You think there's 14 dudes better than me in that draft? I'm just curious. What do you think? That's a great quote. There's that old video I had. And I said, this is way too low. Way too low for Cole Anthony. I mean, he was what he was.

You know, and people could blame the North Carolina year, but that was extenuating circumstances. We'll see. We'll see. Cole Anthony is good. Like I said in the article. Oh, yeah. You know what? I love the nine, 10 games.

Hey, oh, you do we'll see with Cole Anthony. but you say it's it's for real with Mo Baba fascinating. Hmm. Hmm. Well, here's why. Because with Cole Anthony, it's very largely about like he's shooting over 40% from three on seven, eight attempts per game.

How sustainable is the shooting? Well, we'll find out over the course of the year. I think I noted that pretty consistently with some of the other guys. Like, is this because of unsustainable shooting? like with John Morant, you know, I raised the question, but I don't think that's why. Like he's made steady progress each year of his career with Cole Anthony. We'll see if this is his, you know, good touch from the free throw line and floater range

translating into a consistent jump shot or is he going to go back to becoming incredibly streaky like he was in the past, at past levels, high school, college, and rookie year of NBA. We'll see. I mean, I'm encouraged overall. He is playing with better feel. Yep. Better pace. So like there, there is definitely some progress that's happened.

Like with even with Harrison Barnes. Yeah, I think a lot of that is like he's not going to shoot nearly 50% from three for the whole year. Those numbers are going to fall. But what's not going to drop is the amount of attempts per game. They clearly want to get him more shot. So I don't know. I think with a lot of these guys, one guy I tell you who I am buying Chris, Desmond Bain.

I know we've talked about him before, but I buy Desmond Bain completely. You loved him coming out of the draft. I loved him. Yeah, I love him. Jacob Pertle, were you surprised to see him on the, lists. Yes. Yeah, I feel kind of silly putting him on there. Breakthrough. I mean, breakthrough? Yeah. I feel like he's been around forever. Yeah. What is he 26, 27? 26 years old.

I do think he's gotten better as a rim protector though. Because last year he was great. This year, he seems even better as a rim protector. Doing more on offense too. Like it's about the volume on offense as well, the responsibility with some of these guys. It's not just like, oh, we got better as a shooter. where he, oh, he got better as a ball handler. It's, oh, he's getting more opportunity. Can I, as we close this show, just speak up for every NBA fan out there. As someone who is, and is looking very forward to the weekend

and all the games that are going to be going on, I was looking at the schedule. And, like, can we start getting these frigging Pelicans games off of the national TV slate? This is an outrage. Like, it's Warriors Pelicans again tonight. night. I feel like they're on national TV all the damn

time. Like, it's three years in a row the Zion thing has burned them. Really? Like, can we just flex these out? NBA needs to be more flexible with that next TV contract. Like, they shouldn't be on. If something like this happens, you've got to be able to flex it out. You know? What do you put in its place, though, for the late night game?

Indiana, Portland, Charlotte, Sacramento. Do you put one of those on them? Charlotte, Sacramento is a much better game. Yeah, but. From a rating standpoint, is it more financially beneficial to have them on TV than Steph Curry and the Warriors, even if it is against New Orleans? Yeah, so people will just, people are just going to tune in to see the Warriors no matter what, right? No matter of the opponent.

I don't know. I don't know. I mean, they have all the data behind the scenes that I don't, that we don't. But I'm just, I'm just throwing that thought out. I'm curious. I promise you, you don't get one extra viewer for the Pelicans. Or is that part of the problem that you're thinking about short term gains rather than say, hey, let's put some of these young stars like the Mello Ball and, you know, Tyrese Halliburton and

Davian Mitchell on national TV where, hey, you know, it's Friday night. Someone just got home from, you know, their dinner with friends. They turn on ESPN. And then they find out Davian Mitchell's their new favorite player because of the way he played defense on the Mello Ball for three possessions in a row, right? Like maybe maybe it is. like put Charlotte, Sacramento on TV and invest in that. So there's more interest in those players and teams. Or you might want to put on the best guy from that rookie class that won rookie of the year.

It's also on a small market. Maybe you could do that too. Yeah. Or dame. They just keep on. You can put Zion Williamson in the frigging. I'll tell you what. That young, that our early game though, Nick Spucks, that's a good one tonight.

It is a good one. Yeah. That's a good game. It's been a fun season thus far for sure. And the basketball is great. There's a lot of two-hour games now. I love the lack of free throws and flow of game. I really do.

Kevin, it is always a pleasure. Thank you as always. Today for filling in, actually, is Isaiah Blakely. Filling in is our producer. So thanks to Isaiah. Thanks to everybody for listening. Kevin, I will talk to you next week. Looking forward to it.