The Mismatch - The Celtics Extend Josh Richardson and the Timberwolves Continue to Explore a Ben Simmons Trade. Plus: The Overtime Elite League Signals New Opportunities for High School Prospects.

Episode Date: August 24, 2021

Verno and KOC first talk about some of the particulars of the NBA schedule that was released on Friday, including how the national games are spread around (0:30). Then they talk about the Josh Richardson extension in Boston and how the Celtics are collecting strong assets for a potential trade for Bradley Beal (10:55). After that they discuss the new Overtime Elite league, which is backed by the likes of Drake, Kevin Durant, and Jeff Bezos, and how targeting high school prospects with big-money contracts threatens college basketball (19:12). Finally, they get into reporting from Jon Krawczynski that the Timberwolves are still pursuing a trade for Ben Simmons that could include a third team (40:18), the Celtics retiring Kevin Garnett’s number (46:40), and Klay Thompson’s potential return to the court around Christmas (56:05). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Emmy Award-winning producer, actor and comedian Larry Wilmore is back on the air, hosting a podcast where he weighs in on the issues of the week and interviews guests in the world of politics, entertainment, culture, sports, and beyond. Check out Larry Wilmore, Black on the Air on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Misfatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Join him as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K. Kevin O'O. Palmer, A.K.K.K.O. Kavana O. Kevin O. Kavanaugh. Burdo you and your kids doing the crate challenge at all outside? Absolutely not. The crate challenge. I've seen these people falling on their face and whatnot online, but I'm unaware. Has it become a wave where tons of people are doing this?

I saw one video of the guy smashing his face. I was like, yeah, I don't understand. No, thank you. I have no interest in having a permanent back damage for the rest of my life. I saw a video of a woman breaking her arm doing it. It's like, no, thank you. I'm good. I'll just watch the videos from afar and chuckle to myself.

Yeah, no great challenges for us. We have reached the quiet time throughout the NBA, but that, interestingly enough, there has been a ton of news since we last spoke. Schedule came out on Friday. We saw, you know, in terms of what the big games are, things that we look out for, the best matchups, what's going to be on Christmas,

what they're, who's playing at the very end of the year. Um, anything that particularly stood out to you from schedule announcement day. Um, I thought NBA. com had an interesting article that, that said the schedule is commemorating the 75th anniversary with some

classic matchups, like some anniversary games, um, that I thought was kind of cool. Um, but like, you know, I,

I think this year, will be very interesting. They had a week about like some of the, like, 1946-47 season, three teams that were active then. I mean, I'm sure we'll see some cool stuff.

Maybe we'll see some classic jerseys for weeks like that in December during that week. But I don't know. I have other stuff on anniversaries as well from, you know, decades ago. I wonder if I haven't looked closely enough to see if there's anniversary games from recent years, but obviously,

you know, like with Nicks and Hawks playing on Christmas Day, will get drama with stuff like that. But that's what stuck out to me. I just think it's cool how they have some of those anniversary games. And maybe there'll be some stuff around that on the days of those games. Unsurprisingly, the Lakers led the way with the total of 42 games on either ABC, TNT, ESPN, or NBA TV. Following the Lakers were the Warriors.

So the Lakers at 42 games, so over half of their games on national television, the Warriors were 41. Brooklyn, 37. And then those two finals appearance teams, one that won the championship, the Milwaukee Bucks, 36 now, which is their highest ever by a wide margin. And then the Sons, who were hardly ever on national television last year, got 33 of their games on national TV. So we will see a ton of the sons on a big stage. Boston also 33, despite their down season, last season. They still have a ton of national television games. Other ones, the Knicks have, I believe I read more national television games this upcoming year with 29 than they've had in like the last decade combined or something or the last, but at least five years combined.

the Clippers still on TV 27 times. I was kind of surprised by that because, you know, everybody knew that the Kauai's got to be out this upcoming year. And then the Sixers Mavericks Jazz kind of round out the top 10. So those were the top 10 teams in terms of most games. The one that we said we were going to keep a lookout for was the Sons. We knew their number would go up huge. Also, you know, we said we were going to look for the Pelicans.

They've been on national television a million times over the course of the last two years, the first two Zion years, and they are not one of the top ten teams this year. Interestingly enough, now they have not been a playoff team either of those two years. And so their lack of success probably paid a part in that. But I found it interesting that those, that the Pelicans. weren't in the top 10 because I do think people still want to see his eye on. I bet they'll flip it. Like if the Pelicans are good, then in the latter half of the year,

they'll flex in some of those games on the national TV, right? So instead they're having some of those games early in the year. They have a game versus Tray Young and the Hawks versus the Warriors, TNT versus the Sons. They got an NBA TV game against the Pacers on ESPN against the bucks before the new year. And then there's not a lot of them, you know, towards the second half of the season. So I don't know, maybe, maybe if they're good and they're competitive, they'll insert more into the schedule. Because like there's always surprising teams.

Like I was looking forward to Rockets Pistons to see when they were going to first play. Like their first game is November 10th. And that is on national TV. So we get to see Killian Hayes versus Christian Wood facing his former team against the Detroit Pistons and also Kate Cunningham and Jalen Green. Also. So that game's actually on national TV. But like if let's let's say Houston or Detroit were to surpass expectations and be a, you know, a playing tournament contender, which is unlikely.

But, you know, I don't think Houston has a single national TV game after January. So I mean, if they if they were competitive, then you insert those in the latter half of the year. So. Well, I can say this is someone that pays attention to a small market team. Like take for instance, because the way they set this up, I think, The Grizzlies had seven national television games, which is all accredit to John Morant and the fact that he was so high in Jersey sales that people want to see him.

But like one of them is in the first 40-something games. Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm looking at that now. First Portland. Six of them are in like the last 29 games of the year. So if you're not any good, they can bump you. You know what I'm saying? Like you're going to have to prove your worth

in order to stay in those national television games or else who get flexed out. I was kind of surprised Atlanta, who just had a Easter conference finals appearance and Estray Young on their team. They were on TV twice last year. They're 14 this year. So not a huge amount.

Obviously, it's way up from last year, but taking into consideration, Phoenix, they played one time on national TV last year. This year, they're going to play 23 times on national TV. They go from one game on national TV. I didn't realize it was that low to 23. And to your point, on the Pelicans, they were scheduled for 20 national appearances, including an opening night and Christmas game.

And now they're down to 10. So they went from 20 national television games to 10. And then, of course, the big one is what happens when you lose a superstar and James Harden no longer. with Houston and they had 26 national appearances last year or I guess the last full season that he was there in 1920 whereas this year if you want to watch Jailie Green you're going to have to do it on league pass and so those are some of the teams that went down some of the teams that went up interesting is does O KC have the least because I just pulled up their schedule they have there's no way yeah NBA TV games nothing else. Just four NBA TV games for the Oklahoma City Thunder. That's it. Four.

Yeah. Tough. I mean, look, League pass Poku. Yeah. That's what I'm going to start calling him. League past. Gilges Alexander.

Gini. They have some fun young players, dude. Like, that's the crazy thing about, you know, some of these teams that are going to be bad that are going to miss the playoffs.

There's still a lot of good talent on these bad teams, which speaks to how deep the league is. nowadays. We have to recalibrate our expectations of what is a good team versus a bad team just because there's so much depth and talent in the league today. Well, and you remember it was just a few years ago where I said there was really only like maybe one or two teams that when I would go to games, it'd be like, I don't really care about seeing anybody on this team.

And one of them just a few years ago was Charlotte. And now you desperately want to go see Charlotte. No kidding. And it's not just Lamello. It's other guys on that team, too. Miles Bridges is super fun to watch. That's right. Detroit was one of those,

and now you want to see Kay Cunningham. And so there are some of these teams that flip rather quickly. They go from a team that you couldn't care less about watching to a team that now you have some level of interest in them. And so, look, I mean, League Pass was fun to flip around last year. And they're, like you said,

there's for sure going to be somebody that is a, lot better and a lot more fun to watch than we maybe anticipated going into the year. And frankly, they had to sit Gildes Alexander just so they lost games last year. They were catching teams. You know, remember we got about halfway through the season? It's like, why are they good? They're almost 500. Yeah, their net rating was horrible, but at one point, it still boggles my mind how they had such a

poor net rating, and yet at one point they were near 500. Yes. It's crazy. Like they were at one point this season. Deep into the season. They were 19 and 24 at one point on March 22nd, midway through the year. And then they won three games of the rest of the season. They went three and 26 after that.

Three and 26. Oh, no. 19 and 24. Oh, wow. All right. Other news that we need to get to, uh, Josh Richardson got an extension with the, Boston Celtics, another move in Brad Stevens offseason. He has signed, you know, he made the trade for Al Horford. He signed Marcus Smart to his extension. He signed Robert Williams, the Time Lord to his

extension. And then yesterday signed Josh Richardson to his extension. What do you think? And what do you think about Brad Stevens first off season? There's two ways to look at the Richardson smart, you know, everything, everything they've done this off season. One, like these are some solid players, right? Getting Josh Richardson locked up for an extra season. If he can get back to the guy that we last on Miami before we started changing teams,

that things kind of fell off for him, then you get a good player, a good two-way player on your roster. You know, Marcus Smart at a, you know, a pretty fair dollar value annually. Robert Williams, it's a big if, but if Robert Williams can stay healthy, that's a great contract for the team.

But it's hard not to look at some of these decisions that are being made by the Celtics and not think about the fact that they still want to make a big move. And Bradley Beale and Jason Tatum, that relationship is very real. If Beal were to want to leave Washington either during the season or next off season and a sign and trade, Al Horford plus Josh Richard. Eretton equals the new Bradley Beal max contract the following summer in a sign and trade. So for the Celtics, you're getting quality players under contract who you'd be perfectly happy keeping. It just so happens that you put those pieces together and they equal the salary of these star level max contract players that you inevitably want to be in a position to target.

So that I like overall what the Celtics have done this off season. I think they're a better team. I think after they underwhelmed last year, they are positioned to exceed expectations now because they've been muted a bit. But so much of that, like on paper is one thing. So much of that is going to depend on how Udoca and the system in this team and the chemistry works. Because last year the chemistry is bad. If this year the system and the chemistry and the vibe is good in Boston,

this team is going to be really, really strong because on paper they're great. one of the things that when when like the smart contract comes out or the time lord contract comes out or even the richardson extension one of the things that happens and i say this because i'm guilty of it too is that we're so programmed for so many years we looked at these numbers and you could become aghast it wow he's making that a year or you're going to be paying mark a smart almost blah blah blah year and same thing happened with don't Ronkin, Roberts, and whatever. And it's very difficult as an observer to recalibrate what guys get paid now. Like the best players now are getting paid $40 and $50 million. And so you have to recalibrate what a starting quality or, you know, seven-man rotation guy gets paid in the NBA,

which is a ton of money. And I remember a couple of years ago, somebody brought this up and forgive me because I can't remember who it was but and I don't know if anybody ever did it because I've never seen it is somebody needs to and I will tell you that I apologize if this already exists if it does not exist and we get so many questions about young people trying to figure out where their niche is here's a golden idea in the case that somebody hasn't done it yet. And if they have done it, I'm not aware of it. Somebody needs to figure out how to create a template where it would make it make it make sense in terms of the money now versus the money they used to get paid. And follow me here, right?

Like so when Marcus Smart contract comes out, that would have been equivalent to this kind of a contract, what this guy made or some kind of comp from yesteryear when we were so used to the numbers and they were close to or it was a different economic landscape right so if a guy got paid a crazy amount of money like that was a large percentage of the cap and so if there's some way for somebody to make it so like almost an equals this in this day. day and age. Kind of like how they do with, you know, if they're going to say gone with the wind would have made so and so if you account for inflation. Like that's what we need to do regarding this. Like if we said, oh, God, if you paid 15 bucks to go watch ET, like you pay 15 bucks

to go see jungle crews or whatever, right? So it's not on, it's not fair to compare. Well, so when I see Marcus Smart's contract, it ain't fair to compare to what that. contract for so many years. It's a good line. It's not fair to compare. Yeah, it's not. In fact, well, just for a reference right here, 10 years ago, the 2011-12 season, Kobe Ryan was making $25.2 million, most in the NBA. This year, that would rank 43rd, right behind DeMarterson's $26 million, just ahead of Draymond Green's $24 million. So 10 years ago, what was first, now is 43rd. Okay, so give me somebody that was like making like 10 million.

Do you have a list right there? Yeah, I do. Okay, so give me like a 10 million. How about, how about Jose Calderon made $9.8 million in 2011-12? So that's like the Marcus Smart deal. Right? Yeah, pretty much, sure. Because you're saying, you know, because somebody's making two and a half times what

Marcus Smart is. Yeah. And by the way, that was the 55th highest salary. in 2011-12. Now that would be the 132nd highest salary. So 55th to 132nd, or for Kobe, it was first to, what I say, 43rd. Yeah. But Kobe Bryant is making $50 million now, right?

In the NBA, yes. If you look at it through the prism of when you hear that number and you go, oh, so Marcus Smart's about on par with Jose Cauteron, like if Jose Cauteron was playing now, he's making that mark a smart contract probably or close and that that makes it make a lot more sense right but it's hard to make sense of it unless you go back and you see now you'd have to look and Jason Terry made 11.4 one of the best you know rotation players in the NBA and he had the 43rd highest you know salary now like you know I mean that that's you know jump change for NBA role players he'd be making probably near like the Duncan Robinson money.

He'd be making around 20 plus million dollars in today's NBA. So some way to compare the two eras, even like the last five years, last 10 years, they try to figure out what guys of that talent level get paid. Because the truth is, it's just kind of the going rate now. If you, if you're a starter or a starter quality player, you're typically getting paid that unless there's some extenuating circumstances, I don't want this whole conversation to hurt Dennis Schroeder's feelings. We're not talking about that, right? He's wildly underpaid. We know, right? It's not fair. Sometimes life isn't fair. But he did have a chance to make $20 million

in fairness, right? Once upon a time. All right, let's move on to other things that have happened since we last spoke. One of them was that there is now another situation where a kid is signing with overtime elite. This time around, it is a two-year seven-figure deal that was just announced yesterday, top 10 player in 23. 20-23. And so what is happening with this overtime elite is that we're having, they're targeting like sophomores and juniors. And that's who they are signing for this upcoming league. And they are throwing around a ton of money. We are seeing this happen

quite often now. It feels like we're getting a lot of announcements. This kid's name is Tyler Smith. He's the number eight prospect in 2023. And so he is, signing with them. You know, another, you know, for what it's worth, another service has him ranked 15th. Okay. So whatever. If you want to say consensus top 15, top 20 player in the 20, 23 class, okay? And so it's another one.

And they are now, I guess the goal is getting about 20 to 30 of these sophomores and juniors. in high school basketball and pay them a lot of money. And I guess we'll see what kind of money they can make off of this. Obviously, they have ridiculous backing. For those that don't know, Jeff Bezos is behind this. Drake. Drake is by Kevin Durant is behind this. So, I mean, this is not guys that don't know what they're doing with this.

overtime elite. And Tyler Smith got two years seven figures. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And he's not even 17 yet, right? He's 16. He turns 17 later this year. Right. Well, look, yeah. You just had, so my buddy Gary Parrish over at CBS wrote an article and this wasn't even regarding this one. This was, he wrote this article over the last one and then over Jalen Duren when he committed to the University of Memphis. He said how overtime elite targeting high school stars is a much bigger threat to college basketball than the G League. 100% is. And this is why. Because Jalen Duren went and he said, when he signed, he said that the G League offered him a million dollars, a million for one year. And he said,

that he would be just fine and he'd be able to make it by playing at the University of Memphis. Memphis has one of the biggest corporations of the world in town, FedEx, which a lot of people think is very responsible for helping this. But the truth is, things now can be above board. Your name, image, and likeness can't, you can profit off of that. And so you actually could be able to go and make money. The problem is, and this is why overtime's a problem for college basketball, there ain't nothing you can do with sophomores and juniors.

If they're going to get them at that age, they're getting them at that age, you know, and then there's nothing really you can do about it. Like, if you can catch them right before they're coming to college, then the choice is I can go play college basketball and go play the G League. well, college basketball, since the name of Invention Lightness came around, they've made it so I could actually make the money going and playing college. Like, I'm not having to sacrifice that money by playing college basketball. I could still make money.

But if you want to make that kind of money when you're a sophomore, when you're a junior. Big difference. Well, and think about this. Jayzian Gortman, okay, is a five-star prospect. He signed a one-year deal with overtime. for 650 grand. All right.

Then Overtime Elite signed four-star prospect Bryce Griggs to a two-year contract reportedly worth

$1.2 million Kevin, he is a four-star guard. Okay? Four-star guard who is ranked in the 40s

of his high school class right now. And they paid him $1.2 million to spend two years in the league. And so I really have started to wonder on all of this stuff, like, are there going to be any? There will always be the late blooms that slip through the cracks, right? Somebody that explodes later. But the ones that are identified at an early age, I mean,

when you're talking about 20, 30 guys, the best ones that are identified by, you know, this group of people that are running overtime elite, and they're getting them into this system in their high school years? I mean, is this where it's going to be where all the best players go? It really is. And this is, unless somebody creates something, it's kind of like the whole, what is it?

What was it? Like seven second abs and, Is it something about Mary? And the guy creates, or listen to me, six second abs, right? So I guess somebody could go and start signing elementary school kids eventually to a million dollar contracts to one-up them. Who knows? Who knows? I mean, especially when you have, you know, somebody like Drake recruiting you.

You know, you listen to his music. You're a big fan of him. And it was brought up to me by multiple people when I was in Vegas. They said, like, they're curious about what happened. happens with Amari Bailey. He is committed to UCLA. He's a top prospect in next year's class. But Drake dates his mom.

And like Drake and is very close to the Mari Bailey. So like they wonder, you know, could he decommit from UCLA and they get a big bag of cash with the overtime league? And like that would be, you know, one of the first players to decommit, you know, from from a school, a great school. UCLA after having name image and likeness. Like he can make a lot of money playing for UCLA. Poor Mick Cronin.

He lost the one kid. There's another kid that's like, is it the best point guard in the class? Who's going to the G-L-L-E. That kid was going to UCLA. Yeah, they had Knicks initially. And then he decommitted last year and went to the G-League. So like, let's say, if Bailey were to,

I mean, well, this is just, you know, people in Vegas talking. Yep. But the fact is that. he has one of the people who invested millions of dollars into the overtime league. Yep. Hanging out with him. Hanging out with his mother. I mean,

it's conceivable. Maybe he'd want to join the overtime league, you know. Yep. Keeping in a circle. Makes some sense. So there's going to be 20 to 30 prospects that are going to be going to this. Did you know that, Chris? Because I didn't know that.

I didn't know. I don't follow, like, celebrity news like that. Like, who Drake's dating? Right. I didn't, I didn't know that until I was in Vegas. I was like, what? Stating his mom? Yeah, I don't know if it was like house of highlights or something like that, but somebody

had them at his AAU game on the front row together. Yeah. You know what I mean? So I had seen that somewhere. I texted Gary, who had written this overtime elite article this morning. And I asked him, I said, okay. How I get it. I get the, you know, the Bezos, Durant, Drake backing this, the amount of money they're putting into this.

They're obviously paying these kids a fortune. Like, I understand it. And they've obviously got this crazy backing. But how are they going to make money off of this? Is it like TV? Is it going to be a TV contract? And this is what he said. He said, they have a massive social media following that they believe they can monetize.

It's going to be a reality style show. That's what it's going to be. He said, but everybody I know is really skeptical, it'll be a big moneymaker. You know what I mean? Like they're thinking they could flip that into, well, hell, I guess Bezos could give him an Amazon Prime show. He'd have the power to do that pretty easily. He'd say, hey, we'll just put it on Amazon Prime if you were to watch this. If he's one of the backers.

But I don't know. I mean, would you watch the best 20, 30, 16, 17 year olds? Well, I mean, would I? Probably not. But like in terms of like a reality show type of thing. But I do think it's worth mentioning that the crew league, which is like what's, you know, rappers have their own teams that they sponsor or, you know,

recruit players that, that like if you watch their videos of the crew league on YouTube, like the finals has like four million views on YouTube. like the second round game has like 1.8 million views. So theoretically, if the crew league, which doesn't have top talent, is able to have that type of draw, maybe the overtime league with Drake and all these guys, you know, behind it, tweeting it out, sharing it on social media, putting on TikTok with top talent, maybe, maybe that there's potential there for some type of either, you know, one off video or, you know, you know,

TikTok series or some type of reality TV style thing, whether, you know, there's cameras following them around everywhere. There is potential. There's a lot of potential there. Whether it works or not, that remains to be seen. And sometimes you have to take that gamble and see how things work out. Maybe it folds in two, three years and we never hear from it again. But it could also be the beginning of something new and that this is something that happens

for a lot of young players if they go this path. It is hard. I mean, I can only imagine, like, yes, the money is one thing. but saying no to Jeffrey Bezos, Drake, and Kevin Durant when they're wanting you to come to Elite. Well, that's who's recruiting you. I would think it would be very difficult to turn that down. What would be fascinating is some of these kids that are massive stars

and have massive following at a very early age. Lamello did. Bronny does. Like if they got a brawny or something like that. Yeah, you're right. Some of these guys are mega famous already. Like I just talked to that kid who was drafted by the Grizzly, Zaire Williams, about this because he played at Sierra Canyon.

And it's just a different world. It's like they were already famous when they were there, right? Because he's on that team with Wade's kid and LeBron's kid. And they're on ESPN. And that has pros and cons. It's good to get that exposure on one hand. It is. It can affect, you know, somebody in a toxic way.

But they also have massive followings, all of them. Then it becomes almost no big deal when you're younger, right? So when you reach the NBA and you're making millions of dollars, it's less of a shock to the system, to your family, to all your friends. Like, you already are famous. Oh, there's no question. That's why all of these kids are unbelievable at interviews as compared to their... I think so, too. The kids, the guys that came before them, if you compare the interviews, you.

you do with rookies now to even five years and 10 years ago, it's a different world. It's not even close. No, because they've been on a camera. It's so far away. They've been on a camera. They've been on a microphone. They've been on a, like they've grown up with it. They've been on their own camera.

Like they've talked into their own camera and done take over, take over take to get a good video for their TikTok video or whatever. And they've like, I don't like that one. I don't like that one. And they get better at it. So then when a camera and an interviewer is in front of them, it feels familiar. because they've done it themselves or they've already been through it with somebody else interviewing them, which is, like I said, has pros and cons.

It has pros and cons because for some young players, if they become infected with that and think social media currency is something that will lead to their success and their happiness, then, you know, that can be detrimental to their future in their career, whether it's playing basketball or doing something else in life. But on the other hand, if you are going to become famous as a rich and famous athlete, I think that early exposure can end up being like a good thing because you realize this, this, this is nothing. What's fascinating to me,

what's fascinating to me is this is to hear that about the whole social media thing. This is a bet on that social media currency. Yeah. It is. Does that translate? You know what I mean? Because people for, and people are starting to make a,

it took a long time. time for people to try to figure out how to make money. But there are a lot of people making a ridiculous amount of money now from social media, their social media followers. For sure. Whether that's YouTube, whether that's Instagram, whether that's TikTok, whatever it may be, they are making a fortune off of these platforms. And so this is- Largely through sponsorships, largely, as of now. But like maybe at some point that shifts. And, and, like, It's more kind of ad-based in a way that, like, TV is. If that would happen, you know.

And if they put it in front of you, if they put it in front of you, you know what I mean, all the time, then inevitably people are now on their phones and on social media so much, you will have a incredible awareness of what is going on in that overtime league. You just will. And the highlights will be on House of Highlights. And, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. I guess it can become a thing.

I mean, like, think about, like, let's say you're the NBA, right? And everybody talks about NBA TV ratings. Oh, the ratings are going down, blah, blah, this and that. Well, ratings continue to soar on social media every year. Instagram, you know, Twitter, TikTok, highlight videos are off the charts for from the NBA account, from the House of Highlights account, regardless of where the videos and the highlights are posted, the interview clips, it does big time numbers. If at some point in the next five, 10 years, maybe you can slap a sponsor onto all those highlights or have something on there.

And that can become a key revenue generator, maybe as much as TV, maybe more than TV. Like, who knows how things are going to change over the next couple decades. But like the online, you know, the internet, you know, it's like we talked about last week with VR and the Metaverse and all that. Things are changing and they're changing rapidly. So, I mean, the overtime league is worth watching in a number of different ways because I guarantee you the NBA and other sports leagues are going to be watching very, very, very closely to see how this works and what they can learn from it so they can also make money as they're already multi-billion dollar business, how to keep making more money and keep growing the thing out. Yeah, it's the sales integration that is that now is the big thing that I am noticing really has taken off, which is the whole almost. everybody can have a storefront. Everybody can say swipe up and get this product.

Everybody can say, I mean, I see regular old people that now are on these platforms and they're saying, you know, I bought this from Amazon. It's unbelievable, you know, link in my bio or whatever. And now all of a sudden, sometimes you don't even know, but they're catching the commission. If you go and buy whatever they're putting up, it looks like a regular video, right? But then you're like, oh, that looks like something I'd need. And they catch you on the impulse buy. And next thing you know, you're checking in their bio, checking it out. And they've got some kind of a, they're making money off of it. And so I think that's going to be

the next thing. That's good. It is going to be the next thing. That's how they, it's now. You can turn that into money, which is like the NBA or somebody like that, it's going to be, here's a Zion Williamson highlight. Oh, my God, imagine that. And then at the end, swipe up to buy the jersey or something like that, right? Where there's just this integration where you can make money off of it and not necessarily have to post a Charmin ad at the beginning. You know, you're actually making the money. not from an ad, but rather something you're selling. And I don't know what that will be regarding overtime elite.

But it's fascinating because, I mean, some of these kids aren't going to make it. And they're making kids millionaires. And so I'm all for it. And the other thing is this, as someone who's been around prep sports now, I mean, it is, basketball is dirty as hell. I mean, disgusting. Truly. It really is.

So I have all for these kids and their families going to this overtime elite, being in a structure, getting paid a bunch of money to do it, rather than all the people that start to try to become a part of a kid's life when they think that there's a payday at the end of it, right? Because there is just come sooner now. Well, because it's much easier to protect, though, a kid that's, you know, through their freshman year rather than the high school kids. Once it's the high school kids and they start playing on all the AAU teams and everything else, now all of a sudden you got a lot of people that are trying to be a part of their life or trying to get them on this team or whatever. And not always, there's a lot of people in it for the kids. There are. I don't want to say there's not.

100%. There's also a lot of people that are in it to try to profit because they think that there's going to be a payday for them too at the end of the rainbow. And so I like the kids getting the money. They're the same way in college. They also don't have to go behind everybody's back now. Every one of them is getting paid. No more bags of cash being dropped in players' cars from a shady car, which has been happening for years. I mean, like, top college players have been getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for quite some time.

now. Not all. Not all, not every school, but some schools. Oh, some players, some schools. There's always been ways to get around it. I know of one. I know I had a player one time tell me, and I won't tell you the school, went to a school and they gave him a school book bag. All right? They gave him a school book bag. And he went back to his hotel where he was staying. He opened it up. There's $25,000 in it. Cash. Cash. He was like, oh, my God. $25,000. I heard a similar story. That story I just gave with like a bag being dropped off the car. It was like 10K in the bag.

I've heard that about a college player. And another one where a kid was his dad had like a, I think it was like a t-shirt company or something like that. Like not. And it wasn't, you know, a job. It's like everybody knows. It was just a job. Every, every fan knows this already.

Every, everybody knows this. It was just like a job, right? And all of a sudden, the boosters at the school, there was like two or three. of them. They became big investors in this t-shirt company. They really believed in. Next thing you know, a kid from, you know, New York is going to a school in, you know, Iowa, wherever. It's like, what? What did they make any sense? But now you don't have to do all that crap. You know, at least it's on the up and up. It really saved college basketball. Yes. It saved it. I think so, too, right? Especially after all that Christian Dawkins crap that took place. There was this report about Ben Simmons and there was like this connection to the wolves, interestingly enough. And so let me explain. There's a good rundown by Sam Quinn on CBS that says,

despite all reports suggesting that Ben Simmons wants to leave Philly, the team has refused to budge when it comes to a price. Adrian Wojianowski recently reported the Sixers won a James Hardin-esque package of draft picks and players in return. for Simmons. Thus far, no team has been, has proven willing to meet that price. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. One party still interested in the Minnesota Timberwolves. According to John Krasinski, and let me just say this, in a day and age

where it's like warfare for news with Woj and Choms and Mark Stein still gets some news here there, and Wind Horse and Lowe and Ramona and whatever. the local beat writer owning their own beat is something that has just been almost become virtually impossible. This guy John Cresensky in Minnesota is unbelievable.

Yeah, he's always on top of it. That's awesome work. He has had the T-Wolves on lock. Like he's the one guy that I always see breaking the news about his team. It's unbelievable. And so he says, the Timberwolves have continued,

their discussions with Philly on a possible Simmons deal, but they might need a third team to create the sort of win now package that Philly is looking for. And anybody could go read the rest of this. They can read John on the athletic. There's a little rundown of it on CBS. But the reason this is so fascinating, right, is because the first thing that I thought was not, oh, what kind of return will they get or what's going to happen here? it was those guys are buddies right yeah rosas and mori they're buddies so the idea that darrell moray

and gerson rosas who worked together for so many years might be able to you know rope in somebody else if they need to make this deal go um and that they have had these conversations is fascinating to me because, you know, there's always been the whole, what about this for Ben Simmons? What about this for Ben Simmons? And it's usually we're just talking about a two-way deal. But a three-way deal now gets super interesting and seeing where Simmons would possibly land.

And a couple of the names that they brought up, obviously they brought up Pat Bev, who they recently traded for. They bring up Malik Beasley. They bring up DeAngelo Russell. And then they've got draft picks. and then maybe if you rope in a third team, that maybe that's how

that's how Philly ends up with whatever their desired hall for Simmons is. But do you think it's still going to take a superstar in return? I mean, like the foot, what Philly wants is to give Simmons and more to get Damia the Lord.

That can't be emphasized enough. that's what they want to do. I mean, maybe it, maybe it's not Dame, maybe it's Bradley Bale. But they want to give Simmons plus more to get that guy. They don't want to take the package where it's five picks and two players for Simmons. They want to add four picks with Simmons to get a guy. So, you know, in that report, you know, he said the lack of win now assets, the wolves could provide the Sixers has been a hindrance.

And that's why a third team would need to be provided. they'd send like some draft picks to a third team and then the third team would send you know some proven players to philadelphia in that type of scenario i read the report and read it and and viewed it more as like yes minnesota continues to pursue simmons but there's nothing here right now right that that was my impression from that report and it connects to everything we've talked about in recent weeks that right now philly is just wait and see mode they might take this into training camp things might get ugly you're going to hear all the you know the PR statements from Simmons soccer on the media I want to be here you know this and that unless he takes the

approach saying I don't want to be here I want to be traded and things get really gross really quick and that could accelerate things they clutch and Simmons could take that path if this goes in their training camp but I'll tell you what Chris today recording it's August 24th in about one month people are going to be coming to training camp late September is going to be here really, really soon. So all the stuff that we've heard about over the off season, the teams that had interest in DAME, the teams that have interest in Simmons,

keep this all in mind over the next six weeks or so because even though things are quiet today, training camp is right around the corner. It's coming fast. It's coming fast. So this stuff could accelerate at some point in about a month. once training camp does begin, but maybe not. Maybe Darry will be okay with things getting ugly because he's waiting for that superstar and Damian Lillard. I don't know. Do you think they will?

Because, I mean, they should have last year and they ended up with the number one seed, Kiv. You know? What do you mean? I mean, that was the thing all last year. It was all Simmons for Harden, Simmons for Harden, Simmons for Hardin. That's all it was everywhere. And Simmons was cool with it. I think things were different then, though. I really do. I think things were different because he didn't, you know, pass up the dunk and kind of get thrown under the bus by his, you know, his co-star and Joelle

Abed and his coach. And like there wasn't this whole perception from Philly fans wanting him gone. Like they want him out. A lot of Sixers fans want him gone today. They don't want to wait. They want him gone now. And then the other side of it

is that Simmons and Clutch also want to change too. So I think the circumstances have changed since he was involved in hardened discussions versus where things are today. They're dramatically different. A couple other quick things before we get out of here. The Celtics are going to retire Kevin Garnett's number. Now, how long was he there?

Six years. It's not very long. Seven years? Oh, really? Something like that. Seven years? I thought they won right when he got there. Six years.

Six years of Boston. Longer than I thought. Six years. Okay, longer than I thought. Six years. Only six years, though. I mean, that's abnormal for a player to get their number retired, but ultimately, in those six years,

Kevin Garnett changed everything. And I think the imprint that he made on the Celtics, I mean, like, when that deal was made, I was on, I think, a family vacation with my parents and maybe New Hampshire, Vermont, something like that. And it was the same day that the Red Sox trade for Eric, Gagne, the Celtics got Kevin Garnett, July 31st, 2006, 2007. And that was a huge day.

I was super excited about Gagne, who didn't work out with the Red Sox. So super excited with Kevin Garnett because the first game I ever went to was Celtics Timberwolves back like in 98 or 99, something like that. And I always love Kevin Garnett. I always loved watching him in Minnesota. I was the person on message boards, always arguing that KG was better than Tim Duncan. I was that guy, right? Yeah.

And so on the Celtics got KG, I was pumped and jacked, Chris, going from a team that lost 19 games in a row to hoping to tank and get KD, Kevin Durant, or Greg Oden to getting Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen in the same summer. It was incredible. And for, you know, we've seen so many different iterations of super teams in the years since that happened, whether it's the Heedles or the Warriors, you know, the failed teams, like the Lakers with Nash Howard and Kobe, the Nets with KG and Pierce and Darren Williams. But that Celtics team, the start they got off to that year, I mean, it was just such a

thrill to watch that team. Every game with my dad, it was such a thrill. And the way they want it, game six in Boston against the Lakers, I always remember the Kevin Garnett kind of the hanging shot. I think it gave them a 26 point leader or something like that when he got bodied in a lane, but he threw it in off the glass, went in. That whole game was a, that game six was just a big celebration. Doc Rivers getting the Gatorade shower, which you never see in basketball.

Never. Only happens on football sidebonds. But, yeah, anything is possible after the game. Yeah. Kevin Garnett, I'm happy he's getting his number retired. He's a special player, special player who just changed that franchise forever for six years, but really forever. Yeah.

One day when they bring that team back and they do the, let's say 20 year anniversary, right? They bring Rod, though, and they bring KG and they bring Pierce, they bring Ray. They hope they bring Ray. Hope by that point, they're able to bury it. They will. But they bring all those guys back for the 20-year thing, right? Who gets the biggest ovation? I think it's Pierce or you think it's KG?

I was at the game when the Nets returned for the first time and KG and Pierce were there. It was pretty close. I mean, in terms of the loudness with Pierce and Garnett returning, it's pretty close. I'd say it would be nearly equal. Like I said, Pierce spent, you know, almost his entire career in Boston. He was drafted there. He went through it all. He was part of those teams where, like, people said he was a loser and people said he couldn't

win. They should be traded. and you know, and I understood that argument. I really did at the time. But I feel like people think they won. Yes, Paul was amazing. They won because they got Kevin. I mean, Garnett changed everything.

Garnett changed the culture. That's right. It makes you more beloved, right? He brought it. He did. I wouldn't say Garnet's going to get bigger cheers. I would say they're going to be comparably loud, which is unusual, considering he only spent six years in Boston.

Yeah. Whereas Pierce, you know, was there. ever since he was drafted and he grew up there. I mean, he became a star in Boston for 15 years. It's abnormal. But it would be close. It would be close. You tell you nothing, it is hard as hell to get your number to retire two places.

Yeah, it is. That's tough. And Garnett deserves it, though. I really think that. By the way, the Celtics have retired so many numbers. I know. What's another one? What's another one?

Just throw another one off there. I know. Rondo's nine might be the, the only single digit left, right? Oh, I guess Antoine's eight. It's still around. Well, I'll tell you what, what I think the Celtics should do,

and this might be blasphemous, but there's so many numbers retired. So many numbers. I think, like they should make it like a, you know, like the numbers are commemorated, but players could wear them.

I think that could be kind of, no, no, you're a fan of that? No. It's just an idea. No. I like the idea that you can't wear it.

Do you like the odd ball numbers? I do. You do? So you're into that. I like the fact that like you ain't going to, you're not going to LA and wearing 33. Well, and I'm not saying. And you're not wearing 32. And you're not wearing 32 either.

Well, I'm not saying you should let any player wear like number five or number 34 or any of these how do you stop that? I don't know. I mean, it's tough to police. It's just, just an idea. Yeah. Maybe, maybe that's a better idea for like an NFL team because you have so many players. Well, they do that.

well I don't NFL I know I mean look my favorite my favorite team but players can still wear it the Cowboys certainly you can there's been a bunch of 88 right sure I mean yeah I don't know Patriots

they're not going to let anybody wear 12 hell no okay hell no I wouldn't think I wouldn't think they would what do you think about the the Mac Jones Cam Newton quarterback competition happening right now

get cam out for five days because he's unvaccinated and they got some weird testing protocols. This is my opinion. I think that the next, I think all four of those kids are going to start. Obviously, Lawrence is going to start at the very beginning. Wilson is going to start at the very beginning. But I think Fields will end up starting and Mac will end up starting. I think all of them will. At some point.

It's a matter of time. Cam Newton might start week one. Yeah, I mean, but it's inevitable that Mack Jones is going to take over. This is what happened with, you know, it's kind of like the whole, and same with Dalton. It's kind of like what Tyrod Taylor started the season for the Browns a couple years ago. Baker Mayfield eventually became the starter. Those guys will, and it happened to Tyrod again last year. Now, of course, his own health staff stabbed him in the ribs, and that's what took him out.

But, I mean, Justin Herbert ended up having a crazy rookie season. Yeah, I think, I think Mack will start too. He's been great in the preseason. I know it's just preseason, but I mean, what do you need to see? They get through for 4,500 yards and 50 touchdowns and two picks or whatever the hell it was. Even though it's preseason, I've been impressed. And even though it's like often with the second string, I hope in week three, which is usually

the week you see the starters play extended time. I hope we see both Cam and Mac Jones get extended opportunities with the starting unit. Because I'm excited to see how Mac Jones does. I think he's the real deal. Me and my buddy, Bill, we watched the NFL draft earlier this year together. No. And we wanted Mac. We wanted a trade-up for Mac Jones.

Didn't need to trade-up. He fell. Patriots got him. Yeah. Back to winning ways. Back to the playoffs. Going to get a Patriots, Buck's Super Bowl, Chris. Mac Jones versus Tom Brady.

How about that? Like the sooner you get to watch Mac Jones, the better because Cam's best days are long behind them at this point. Which is too bad. I used to love watching Cam. Everybody did. he was so fun to watch his MVP season outstanding yeah just not the same anymore by the way one one quick thing on the Celtics numbers you asked like they only have like nine available yeah the numbers that are retired one two three five now with Kevin garnett six 10 14 15 16 17 18 19 22 23 24 23 double zero and then Loskey Whoa.

Who's 23? 23 is Frank Ramsey. Wow. Nine season for the Celtics. How about that? The original sixth man. How about that? Seven titles from 56 through 61.

Yeah. Retired all those dudes numbers. Led the team in free throws made in 57 to 58, according to the Celtics.com, uh, retirement page. There you go. Mm-hmm. What, when do we do? And obviously you've got what, you know,

you're hoping Tatum's in those rafters one day. Certainly Pierce's on track to maybe be in those rafters one day. There's changed fast in the NBA. There's not a lot of, there's not a lot of numbers left. Last thing before we get out of here, Clay Thompson, we had talked about this and,

hey, when do you think they'll get him back? You know, Kevin Garnett, Kevin Durant, he was out for like 18 months, you know, when he came back.

And he clearly has become one of these, amazing stories of return from Achilles. The best ever, honestly. Like, unless you want to say that one Kobe here, but, I mean, Kevin Garnett has looked like himself. He did not stay uninjured throughout the entire season, but when healthy and when he was able to play, he was the full Kevin Garnett experience.

And then he was amazing in the Olympics. So he's able to play extra basketball too this summer. And so he has kind of become the guy that you can hold up as, But we got to remember he was able to stay out a long, long time, you know, post-injury by not the circumstances in which he was coming back from injury. And so now they're saying with Clay probably around Christmas time until he comes back. And so we'll see if the, you know, how the warriors are able to do without him until then. I mean, I think if you're the warriors, you're just hoping you could stay near 500 or, or, you're, you know, you know, maybe a little better until you get him back and then be able to make your run the second half of the season.

But it does leave a lot of questions regarding what kind of season they can end up having and what the ceiling is on, you know, place they can get in the Western Conference because, I mean, that's a lot of basketball games that are going to be played before December. And then, you know, are we getting the full Clay Thompson experience, you know, when he comes back? and is he going to be more like West Matthews when he came back or Kevin Durant when he came back? Obviously he is a superior player to West Matthews, but I'm just saying two different guys and how it affected them and their games.

So who knows? I mean, it makes it very difficult, I think, to predict where the Warriors, you know, what expectations should be for this upcoming year. But they're saying Christmas time, It'd be cool if he made his debut right around Christmas time. That'd be pretty cool.

I have a podcast on the Ringer NBA show coming on Wednesday with Marcus Thompson from the athletic talking about, you know, largely about the Warriors, but also some other teams. And I thought, you know, Steph Curry, he broke it down to Marcus in an interview a couple weeks back. It's three stages for the Warriors this season, the beginning of the year until Clay Thompson comes back, then a period, reintegrating Clay back into the lineup, and then playoffs.

and you hope you, make a deep playoff run and go to the finals. So, you know, for the Warriors, this is going to be another year of change. Maybe it ends up being a transition year. Maybe it's a year with the Warriors aren't actually back. They have the fourth highest finals odds on Fandul

between behind the Lakers, nets and bucks. I mean, I'm curious, Chris, do you think that's too high for Gold State with all the uncertainty you do? Just with the uncertainty.

I mean, I just think that's a bad, I think it's bad odds. I wouldn't bet that now. Yeah. Because I think you could look up and you could bet that in December. Those odds aren't going to be worse in December. They're going to be better right before Clay comes back.

Yeah. I think you're right. Why, why on Earth? You'd be an idiot to bet that thing now. Just wait. It's not going to. Those odds are not going to get worse for you if you wait until December. They're not going to be 20 and 25 and 10, I promise you.

And if we're talking games. for a second here for finals odds. A team like the Sons has a fairly easy early season schedule. Theoretically, if they blow through that, their odds could go up. Gold State's odds go down. So if you do believe in Golden State come, you know, April, May and June, the best time might actually be like, like you said, right, a little bit before Clay comes back. A little bit before then.

Yes. That's, I mean. I will say this though, Chris. What if, what if Jordan Poole and. begins this season like he ends last season. And what if the team is really good early in the year and the odds stay the same, knowing Clay's going to come back at some point. Even then,

it won't, it's not like it'll get better necessarily. I don't care. I don't care how good Jordan Poole is. The West is murder, man. It is, dude.

Yeah. One little slip and you're the, it is hard to win. It's hard to be awesome in the West. What did we say last week? Only Houston and OKC would like guarantee won't get one of the top 10 spots. Yeah. It's hard to be awesome in the West.

It is. It is. And so that is, those are the odds of an awesome team. And I don't think they're going to look like that after a couple of months. They will or could certainly when they get clayback. I don't know if their odds will ever be shorter. Seriously. I mean, the three ahead of them are the Lakers, they're going to, it doesn't

matter what kind of season. Hell, the Lakers didn't have a good year last year and they were still odds on. You obviously dropped the clippers out of there, but I mean, Milwaukee, Philly, they're still up there, right? All right. So those three, Milwaukee, Philly, and the Lakers? Is that the three with the shortest odds? No, Brooklyn, one, Lakers, two, bucks three, Warriors, four, then Jazz, Sons, Sixers, Clippers, Nuggets, Heat, Mavs, Hawk, Celtics. That's the... Philly's the best. That's the best odds to me.

I agree. If you assume, like Simmons at some point were to potentially get traded, if it were, especially for Ademian Lillard, their odds would go, boom. Yes. Boom. You know, so I'm with you there of those odds. I think... In terms of their chance versus what their odds are right now, they should be ahead of some of those teams.

Plus 4,900 for Boston behind Atlanta at 4,000. Those are pretty good odds, too. I'm not saying I would bet on the Seleks to win the finals, but those aren't bad odds by any means. Yes, they are. Really? Yeah. What did they do?

How are they better? Would you say they have no chance? Why are they better? Like I said, chemistry. They got a worse. I'm going to guess they've got a worst coach. Brad Steven says they have a better coach. I find that to be very difficult.

I don't know. sometimes the change in voice can be a very positive thing for a team. Maybe so. Maybe so. I think they have more depth. I think their roster's stronger. Richardson, Horford,

these guys aren't, you know, big superstar names or anything like that. But I think the Boston roster is a lot stronger. Schroeder's not a bad player. No, he's not bad. The Smith is much better in the latter half of the year.

Like some of the younger guys, their team's really good on paper. All right. We'll see how it works out, but it's good on paper. So Boston and Philly, those are the two odds each of us like. we are going to do a mailbag on Friday.

Summer, summer mailbag time. So send in your emails. We'll answer anything. Basketball or non-basketball. Send your emails. Tell them the address, Kiv. NBA mailbag at gmail.com. There you go.

NBA mailbag at gmail.com. Send those in and we'll get to as many as we can on Friday. Thank you to our executive producer, Sasha Ashau. As always, and we will talk to you on Friday. Thank you.