The Mismatch - The Charlotte Hornets Are Taking the League by Swarm. Plus: Chris Paul’s Gas Tank Is Still Full and the Hawks Look Rejuvenated.

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

Verno and KOC go all the way around the league this Tuesday starting in sunny Miami where Jimmy Butler could be playing himself into the MVP conversation (0:30), and moving on to the team that’s taking the league by swarm, the Charlotte Hornets (6:00), and Atlanta’s comeback in the thus-far-successful Nate McMillan era (10:50). Then they quick-hit the Knicks (19:34), Lakers (32:00), and Blazers (39:42) before diving deep into the success of the Chris Paul–led Phoenix Suns (43:37). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringer's Dave Hill takes you on a journey into the underground lives and careers of six professional gamblers. This eight-part podcast is a unique look into the gambling world that you don't want to miss. Check out gamblers on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K. Kevin O'Bomberts, A.K.K.K.O.K.K.K. Kevin O'Kamp. Kevin O'Kamp. Kevin O'Kamp. Kevin O'Kahn. Or should I say, Poku? Oh my goodness. We'll get to Poku. We'll get to Poku.

You don't worry about that. We have a ton to get to because there has been a lot that is going on. And it seems like things are starting to get a little more normal in the Eastern Conference. We'll start off with that. And the reason that things have felt a little more normal is because whenever you peruse the standings, now when you peruse them, the teams that we thought were going to. going to be up at the top or up at the top, and they're all playing extremely well. You have Philadelphia, though, despite losing Embed, they're eight and two in their last

10. Brooklyn, 9 and 1 in their last 10. The Bucks, 9 and 1 in their last 10. Miami, 9 and 1 in their last 10 games. And then, of course, Boston, who's right behind them, who we would have imagined, you know, like, it's taken this long, Kevin, but the five teams that we thought were for sure. going to be the top five teams in the Eastern Conference, at least as of today, that has hashed itself out.

For sure. I mean, for Philadelphia, hopefully Joe Alambi is able to return in a couple of weeks and stay healthy to the rest of the season because that was scary when that happened, when he fell on that knee the way he did and hyper-extended it. So hopefully M.B. can get back. But all these other teams, Chris, I mean, we've talked about Brooklyn and Milwaukee and Boston's up and downs.

But Miami, they're back and looking like the Miami heat, Chris. and Mr. Butler might get himself into some all NBA slash MVP talk if he doesn't slow down. Let's simmer down on with the MVP talk because not every great player could be in the MVP, you know, the conversation, but all NBA, maybe, yeah. Well, look now, when MB's gotten hurt, it starts to open that door, Kevin. Like there's all kinds of names that can throw themselves into the pot. And when you have a team that's pistol hot like this and look at his. numbers this year. They are incredible. He is clearly the best player on their team. And if they

don't slow down, I'm just saying we had LeBron winning the narrative. And then all of a sudden, AD went out and that's going to make that very difficult because they're not going to end up with the best record. They're probably not even going to end up with the second best record. Embed, his to lose. Well, if you're out a month, you know, if you're out a month, Now all of a sudden, people can start jumping back up in there. You've got Janus with the three consecutive triple doubles, and he's been going crazy. And all I'm saying is- Don't forget, Yokic.

Yeah. Yokic has been killing it the entire season, and he seems to be the name that everybody's not mentioning as often as they should. Well, I tell you the name that's going to get in there, and it's going to be, it's going to be interesting to see, and it may split the vote. This, you know, on the sentimental, and I don't know if it's really sentimental, because I don't think he's necessarily worldwide beloved. But Chris Paul has changed everything for Phoenix,

and they may end up with the number one seed. I know that sounds crazy on the surface, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that they end up with the best record in the Western Conference. And then, you know, whoever is best player, best team is always in the mix. And so whether that's Chris Paul or Devin Booker, you know, one of those guys. They're only two back from Utah, too. I mean, it's not like Utah seven games ahead.

Well, they're also like 23 and three or something. I mean, they've been going crazy recently. And so you back to the Easter conference. And Dame just one other name to throw out. Yeah, sure. As well, CJ, we'll talk about CJ coming back later on in the show. But Dame is another name that belongs there. But it's a lot of names.

So to be fair, I mean, maybe I'm being overly critical of the guy who's been super, super hot last month being in the MVP discussion. But you're right, Chris, the door is open with Embed's absence. And what would be crazy with Jimmy Butler is it's very rare for a guy to be able to make an all-NBA team or get in an MVP conversation when he wasn't an All-Star. That almost never happens. But Jimmy Butler was not an All-Star. And we talked about by virtue of the weirdness of when the game was played, that, you know, people were looking at the standings when they're voting. Yeah. And so it's like the difference between if New York is 10, then Julius Randall might not get to nod, but New York instead was, you know, a top six seed.

And so of course, they've got to have an all-star on the team, except there was like two games separating it. And so the odd thing is Butler was not rewarded at midseason, but here's betting that he does get rewarded at the end of the season. But just to say his numbers real quick, Chris, ever since he returned from injury on January 30th, he's. averaging 23.2 points, nine assists, eight rebounds per game, 48% from the field, only 25% from three,

but he's not a three-point shooter anyway. Still killing it without the shot. And they win every night. Yeah, yeah. It feels like, you know what I mean? Like they have really gotten going. And the other team that is interesting,

because we talk about those five, but the other team that has really gotten going, and they have, they are half a game back from that Miami team for four, as of today and they're tied with Boston is that Charlotte team who again last night is playing in a close game and Terry Rozier, this is one of those where sometimes it's very difficult for people to process how much better a guy becomes in year blank. And for Rozier, this is a case study in. You know, you've got to get rid of what your preconceived notions of him were when he

played in Boston or even when he first got to Charlotte because this Terry Rozier is a different guy than we have ever seen before. And he's like, okay, your guys, your team's got your guy that's going to try to get you home and we got our guy. Like he has become a like Eastern conference Damian Lillard. I swear. Every other night, I'm watching Terry Rose here bury somebody. Scary Terry hours.

I'm not sure. What's like the dame time equivalent for Scary Terry's fourth quarter. It's good. I like that. I think scary Terry hours works. Or just scary hours. Right? Scary hours too.

I like that. There you go. Then again, but you do need to label it with the name. You get associated it with Terry. It's scary hours. Scary Terry hours. We'll have the voters throw some ideas for

Terry Rozier's fourth quarter heroics are away because, dude, all I know is that guy. Hey, we've mentioned the guy. I swear, you know, everybody loves the Hornets, watching the Hornets on League Pass because of Lamello and because they've been a fun team to watch. Lamello, Monk, Rozier, so many fun players.

Hayward, Hayward's fun. Little guards that make plays, right? Because Monk's not big and Graham's not big and Rozier's not big. And so they just got a bunch of fun players. And obviously, Miles Bridges. might, you know, swing from the rafters and dunk on somebody's head. They, though, watching them play last night and becoming that league pass team, it made me think

of, we've talked about the announcer, Eric Collins before. He's so good, man. I mean, he has really become, like, for hardcore NBA fans, he's become, like, a guy that has ascended amongst the league. People that routinely watch league pass on a nightly basis, you know as you're flipping through and you follow those Charlotte games. Like this guy, like when somebody takes a horrendous shot, the other night I'm watching, and who was it?

Isaiah Stewart takes a three from the top of the key, like in crunch time. And he does the, oh my goodness. And of course, Isaiah Stewart made it. right he did it earlier this year when beyondbo took a three oh my goodness right and then at the end of the at the end of the games i love the oh terry yeah it's so good oh terry is my favorite i love it it's kind of funny like the hornets suddenly have become a team that has hope and promise for the future excitement for today as well it's not just about the future this team is pretty good right now You know, as of Tuesday morning, they're 20 and 18.

The sixth seat in the east, Chris, and they're tied with Boston and the standing. So they could very well, they're a game halfback from Miami still. They could very well move up the standings here. If they get catch a hot streak here. The Hornets, they become a fun team in their announcer who's been there for some time now. Suddenly people start noticing how fun this guy is once he starts getting games to announce that are great at the end. I know it, right? Like, look, it's the weird.

to see because I know, look, I'm not saying anything new. The Hornets have made the greatest ascension of a league pass team ever, just by the attainment of Lamello. And then, obviously, they got good player. Gordon Hayward's there now and Terry Rozier's now because they were, like, last year. They were last. Like, you never, no, you had no reason unless you, like, were a Michigan State fan or were keeping up of Miles Bridges or. or you really liked PJ Washington, you know, because you're a Kentucky fan. You had very little reason to tune in to watch Hornets games a year ago.

And now this year, and they play in a bunch of exciting games, too. They're really fun, man. They've been fun. So they're in the mix now, and maybe we should include them because they certainly have been super hot. The other team, and look, you and I both, uh, we don't need a, apologize or make amends, but we said this on two weeks ago. I remember you and I say it, I said, look, man, the Lloyd Pierce thing, it is what it is. Somebody has to fall on the sword, but most of the time I will concede to a fan base that watches them play every single night,

and that fan base is saying consistently, we are poorly coached, we would be best. We would be better with somebody else on the sidelines. And the instant reviews on that are that there's no debate. They are better with a different guy on the sideline. In fact, I don't believe they have lost a game since Nate McMillan took over, right? They're 5 and O.

They've beaten the heat, the Orlando, Toronto, Sacramento, and Cleveland. So some iffy opponents, but they're still winning these games. Well,

and, uh, Mr. Gallinari got rose from the dead. I mean, go look at his numbers. And DeAndre Hunter could be back this week, too. Supposedly Thursday. Right. And Chris Donne, I read. So, I mean, if they get done and they get Hunter,

now we know that their season went the wrong way very quickly when Hunter went out the first time, but they've kind of turned it around. And he has certainly gotten a much better version of Danilo Gallinari than they had gotten prior to. And that's a huge one, right? Because that was a big free agent for them. And Gallinari had been crap.

And now he looks like the guy that can really contribute and be a big problem for teams. The crazy thing is, is they're still not getting that out of Bogdan and Bogdanovitch yet. Right. Gallinari's come along, Bogdanovich. He had a good game the other night against Cleveland. But other than that, he's had some stinkers scoring from the field. And if they can get him back to being himself, too,

That makes a big difference. You know what's interesting, Chris? I followed up on Twitter. I posted like a poll, a Google form the other day. A nice survey for people. And I asked them on it, which young point card would you must want to start a franchise with? Following up on our debate we had on the show last week. And I had Josh, Shea, Tre Young, and Lamello on there.

Jiamerant got 47% of the vote that led everybody, you know? And then you have Lamello at 26%, Shea at 22%. And you have Trey Young. was in last only 3% of the vote for Tray Young. That shocked me that Tray Young came in a distant fourth of those four point guards that were in there on the poll. I just found that fascinating. Yeah.

Just to bring that up now because you have the Hawks of Winners five in a row. Trey's had some awesome games, some great moments. And yet like the perception at least, you know, late Saturday night into Sunday morning when I posted that poll was a distant fourth for the guy. who's averaged nearly 30 points per game for two years. It's just really interesting to see the way perception is of these players. Yeah, I know, because do people think

that if, you know, because I guess the, well, no, Gildes Alexander's a third year guy, right? So he's, yeah, he's a third year guy. So he would have been in the same draft. He was. As Trey. People think that he would go over Trey if there's a redraft.

I mean, I ask which young point card would you most want to start a franchise with, first place Jha, second place Lamello, third place Sheaildos Alexander, a distant fourth. A distant, like I said, three percent of the vote was Trey Young. That shocked

me. I thought it would be, I thought of that. It's resent, part of it's resent, for sure. Part of it is he played people don't like the style and all that. It played an unlikable brand of basketball at the beginning of the year and it made a lot of headlines, right? So anybody that is

an opposing, you know, he does get kind of the hardened thing, right? where if you're a fan of an opposing team, you resent him more than appreciate him many times, right? For how good he truly is. But look, when you start the All-Star game, your second year in the league, and you can score 30 points a game, he deserves appreciation too, right? The pendulum has swung too far on the Trey Young detraction because what he does in so many cases is downright historic. and it is a different league now where it is, like, I know that it feels like everybody, we're always like trying to poke a hole in a guy and say like, hey, well, he's so bad

defensively, whatever. But like, I mean, in fairness, he scores 30 points a game. Like, I remember having this discussion a hundred years ago, and it was interestingly enough, the guy that criticized him, Steve. where people were like, yeah, well, Steve Nash sucks on defense. It's like, bro, come. Like, Steve Nash is like running the most devastating offense we've seen like forever, you know, like if we're, if we're weighing on the scales here,

the good outweighs the bad because the, I don't care how bad he is on defense. The offense is so extremely amazing, right? And I think the same thing goes with Trey. It's not like he's got negative numbers when he's out on the court, right? He's not the reason the Hawks struggle. Usually they're winning when he's on the court with their better players. Yeah, I mean, with Trey Young, it's your right to compare it to the way people perceive Nash in terms of the no defense aspect. The sons don't play defense.

That's why they lose. That's why people kind of hated them in some ways. People love them and hated them for the same, you know, different reasons. And with Trey, I do think. that I would probably have him fourth in that. I wouldn't have him a distant fourth in the way that poll has. Maybe if you had, you know, ranked choice,

which is something we should do politically. That's a different conversation for another day. But if I had ranked choice on there, maybe Trey wouldn't have been such a distant fourth place. Because I think it's closer than the poll actually indicates. I just found it really fascinating. The only asking for people's top choice, instead of ranking them or, you know,

giving points to each player. Because with Trey, his defensive shortcomings aren't going to become as apparent as they will in the postseason. Like people talk about them now. It matters now. But he is going to get attacked relentlessly in a postseason series. In a playoff series, that's when it's going to become obvious how much better he needs to be on that and on the floor. But the offense, he's going to have brilliant moments in the playoffs whenever that time comes to.

He's going to have some insane scoring nights. Another thing that hurts him. And this is the difference between him and, like, like, say a Hardin. Is it the hair, Chris? No, Houston has a loud and fervent fan base. His hair looks good this season. Loud and fervent fan base.

So if you criticized Hardin, you were going to hear about it. Anybody can criticize Trey. Like Atlanta just doesn't. They don't have a loud and fervent fan base. And so the Trey Young defense, that voice, whatever it would be, is so small. Right? Whereas usually fan bases really ride for their guy. Is this a challenge for Hawks fans to, huh?

Is this a challenge for Hawks fans to elevate their voices and be louder about the fan? I mean, look, just tune into their games. It's a COVID year and it looks no different than the last couple. I mean, I'm not speaking out of school here. The Hawks are like, like, you know, look, you drive, they play a game tonight. You drive through tomorrow? they're going to be, drive through Atlanta, they're going to talk about who Georgia got in recruiting. Yeah, I think, it's just so far down the list and then they're going to talk about the Falcons and then

they're going to talk about the Braves. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, whereas with Houston, they have a large international footprint to going back to Yao Ming with Houston Rockets and all that. There's a large, you know, you know, following for the Rockets worldwide and that obviously it was attached to harden for years. Yeah. Well, and Atlanta's number one in it. You know, they, like, you usually have to win pretty big in order to gain that passion. There's just, they've always just been so far down the list in terms of things that people are passionate about there. And so if they're not passionate within the own market, it makes it very difficult on a worldwide basis to hear that voice of defense for Tray Young.

So I do think that hurts them on that level too. Look, last night was outside of Draymond. It was the first time where I thought, oh boy, a ref might get smacked upside the head with the Julius Randall thing at the end. I don't necessarily think that that was a fake. Hold me back. Hold me back. He had a fire in his eyes that looked like a guy with bad intentions.

And the announcers were even saying a good job by them to hold this guy. I mean, I think he was going to smack Scott Foster right upside his head. And frankly, Scott Foster would have deserved it because that called was crap at the end of that game. That was terrible. I mean, come on, bro. Like, how do you miss? How do you miss that? And he dribbled.

It's unfortunate. You know, when he went up, he got it papped away, and then I thought he put the ball in the ground even then. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, they had fought back so hard to get in that game, a real masterpiece by Tivido to slow that Brooklyn team down that really felt like it could be a runout early in that game.

And there they were. They had a three to tie it. And you get this crap call at the end of the game. I just hate seeing teams get that stripped. that opportunity stripped away from them. I mean, then in that Charlotte game, you had the Rosier non-call on the backcourt violation.

Terrible. Could have changed it. And it can't be reviewed. Like, I mean, we sit through these long reviews and then you can't review that. Every night. I just,

I'm so confused that's some of the rules here. Like, I don't, I think the NBA over the off season should take a hard look at some of the rules. Like you need to clarify what can be reviewed and what can. You need to simplify the process, accelerate the process to make it as quickly as possible. like it can be for the TV viewer.

We see a replay. We know in five seconds what the decision should be a lot of the time. Most of the time it's quick. Yeah, what was it? So a week and a half ago, I was at a game. Oh, oh, it was the end of the,

the four quarter of the Grizzlies Bucks game. And Janus had like this most obvious goal tend you've ever seen in their life, right? Like a guy goes up for a layup, Janus jumps up. It's way above the rib. He just smacks it off of, you know. It's like an international play.

And they stopped the game. This is like in crunch time. Stop the game. They go over and look at the monitor. I mean, this thing takes five, six minutes. And I'm like, bro. Like in real time, everybody knew that's a goal ten. Even Yonis knew it was a goaltender.

Like, what are we doing here? Why? Why are we putting this game at a screeching hole? I am fundamentally in favor of replay. I care about getting the call right. But I also care about. you know, quality of the product. And I think it hurts a lot of fans.

Like the number one complaint, like I hear from people who don't love basketball or the officiating is horrible. Like I can't watch the end of games. It sucks to watch. Games don't matter until the fourth quarter. You hear stuff like that. And with the officiating aspect, obviously we are hardcore fans, Chris. We watch all the time.

People who listen to this podcast watch all the time. We deal with some of the issues. with officiating. And it's, I think hardcore fans understand basketball like most sports, but especially basketball, such a hard game to officiate.

This is not an easy job for referees. But when it comes to the reviews, it's just going to be quicker. And there needs to be clarity in what can and can't be reviewed because how can you not review that Rozier back court, which could have changed everything.

Even the Charlotte announcers were like, oh my God. Yeah, it's just weird. Like, you can't touch it in the front court and then go to the back court and Terry knows. Like you watch the play, Terry Rozier knows he effed up.

Yeah. And the ref doesn't. Like, what is happening? Sure. And like, I don't, I'm not smart enough to know the mechanism to turn those five minute reviews into 50 second reviews or even 20. Robots. I don't know.

Robots. Like, I'm not that smart. The one idea I do have that's easy. League pass player alerts. Oh. If I want to set notifications on my phone for every time Alexei Pocchewski checks into the game, I should be able to do that. I should be able to have my phone light up and tell me

Poku is in the game. Oh, that'll happen. If I want to have alerts for when, you know, Bruce Brown on the Brooklyn Nets reaches 10 points, I should be able to have that customization within league pass. That'll be coming,

right? Because I think the other thing, the other thing, especially with gambling becoming such a huge deal, and people playing daily fantasy will be the whole, you know how you could do that. I do that on the NFL stocks too, like playing the stock market.

of a guy's having a big night. Someone's alerted, like, I'm going to buy some top shots. That's right. So on the NFL thing, I actually, there is a channel that I put in my fantasy team. No lie. There is a channel that's part of the Red Zone package where I put in my fantasy. There's a channel called Fantasy Zone. And I can put in my fantasy team on Sundays and then it'll keep up with it.

And it'll show me highlights of the guys that are on my team. It's awesome. They'll do that for the NBA. I think that, like what you're touching on, what we're talking about is the next wave of how we're going to see sports television evolve. We might not see it for a couple of years here, but you're going to see customization options. You know, you can maybe like on League Pass. You can choose to watch the home or away broadcast. Oh, you're right.

You can choose different languages, like whatever. I don't like this, but I know this is so. They, one of their great challenges, especially with TV audiences being fractured, people not spending the time. to sit down and watch a whole game. And many times when they do sit down to watch a game, go to a next time, obviously the stands aren't filled right now, but next time you go to a game, walk around and see how many people are watching the game

and not looking at their phone. It's unbelievable, like even at a game, like in person. So forget at your house. And I'm guilty of it too. You know what I'm saying? And so we, because our attention gets fractured in so many ways. The next wave is the NBA figuring out how to monetize. their highlights and the fact that there is an attention deficit when it comes to the league.

Because they have this whole audience. And I do think it was smart to allow their highlights to be everywhere. It grew things. But the trick is how do I monetize that? How do I make money off of somebody like my son who every morning, he doesn't watch every game? No. He goes to TikTok, YouTube, whatever. Yeah. And he watches like, They do a package every morning on YouTube of top 10 plays. They do a package of the games and game highlights. And they're condensed. They're condensed highlights.

And then you watch us on YouTube get hundreds of thousands, if not millions of views. One of them is his. I'm telling you. One of them is him every morning before school when he's eating breakfast at our dining or at our, whatever, kitchen table. He has his iPad out. And I hear it. I mean, I know the guy's voice.

So, and he's watching whatever the top 10 plays were from that last night. So, like, there's never a highlight he doesn't see. He has an awareness of the league that is crazy for an 11-year-old. He knows every player on every team and all the things that they've done. But he's not the kid, he's not watching every game. So how do you, with that way, with that generation, how do you monetize that? and I think the trick is what you're talking about. There's no question that I'm the guy that has on the Red Zone channel on Sundays.

When I watch my team, but if my team's playing at three, yeah, I'm at noon, I'm watching the Red Zone channel. End the story. Like, I've just got it on all day. For sure. And the NBA will figure that out. I think so too. And I'm sure, like obviously NFL Red Zone is just perfection.

I love being able to throw that on. Sundays and just go between games with Scott Hansen the enthusiasm he brings. It's hilarious because I don't have him. Oh, you don't have him. No, I've got Siciliano. Oh, wow. And you're just Siciliano. Different markets have different hosts for NFL Red So no, no, different cable systems.

So I've got direct TV. Really? Yeah, what do you have? Like cable? Yeah, yeah, we have like Comcast Exfinity area. Yeah. So yeah. Wow.

I didn't realize that until I saw somebody saying something about Red Zone last year. I'm like, who the hell are they talking about? Scott Hanson, the Catch a Predator guy? That one? No, not that one. No, I've watched, so I don't even know who you're talking about. Because I've watched Andrew Ceciliano for 15 years. Because it was so crazy that you say that this season. Chris Hanson was the host of that show.

My bad. Apologies to Chris Hanson. You don't have to apologize to him. That dude is bad off. He stole a lot of people's money. Really? Oh, you serious? Go look it up.

Chris Hanson. You want to talk about a fall from grace. He, like, tried to start his own thing after to catch a predator and whatever. Seriously. Yeah, there go. I'm telling you a little pop culture. Oh, my. Yeah, that Chris Hanson, you don't have to feel bad about him.

He might be in jail. Charge with larceny, 2019. Charged with harassment by a civilian in 2020. Wow. Oh, my. That's going the wrong way. Bouncing checks for nearly $13,000 worth of promotional materials, according to Stanford police.

Yeah, man. Charges were drops that says, for that. But still, he was in some hot water. It hadn't go the right way. It hadn't go the right way. I think he was going to start another show where it was about perverts too. I don't know. But Scott Hanson, Scott Hanson, great, fun guy. Love him on a NFL words on it. Well, the reason it's funny you say that is because before we get right back to basketball,

Siciliano this year, for the first time ever wasn't there. He never missed a week ever. Wow. And it was wild because my son said, where's Andrew? There was one week. He wasn't there. That's so funny. Hey, I went and checked on Twitter and he had gotten like a false positive COVID test.

But he wasn't there. I think he said 200 something consecutive weeks or something. It was like watching, I don't know, who was like the Iron Bay, like Brett Farve or somebody. Like you just got used to. he's the quarterback every week, right? That must be fun. That's a gig like I'd love for NBA. It would be fun to, you know, bounce between watching games, you know,

and sprinkling some commentary, but then deferring to the announcers to do what they do best. I don't know. I think I think it's cool what Scott Hansen. Stop trying to get more jobs. What the hell? By the while, you know what? While we're on this, this is a good. What in the hell is the reload podcast?

or whatever, the re-relaunch or something like that. Like, you posted this picture. I didn't respond because I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. You posted a picture. Oh, you're talking about the book? On the back of a book. That's an error by that. It says Kevin O'Connor from the ringer and host of the relaunch.

And I said, this is he leaving me or something? It said the restart. I think they put like the video. thing that I hosted last year, the restart, and they called it a podcast, even though it's a video series. So it was just a little error on the back cover. You are on the blurb of a back of a book,

and it says Kevin O'Connor from the Ringer and the relaunch podcast. I wish it said the mismatch, but... I said, this dude is going behind my bag. He's sneaky going to start his own thing. First, he goes with Jake Howell Man in charge. Now he's starting his own shit, And I got to find out on the back of a book, he ain't even going to tell me?

The relaunch. I said the relaunch pockets. What is that? I'm going to launch a show called The Match. Every Monday and Wednesday. Yeah. All right. We'll still be on Tuesdays and Fridays, though, Chris.

We talked about what was going on on the Easter conference side on the Western Conference. You know, we have the Lakers living life without Anthony Davis. and since we last spoke, there was an update on his condition. I mean, that sounds like, I mean, we're probably a month away from seeing him. And we know that the only thing that matters is him being healthy for the playoffs. But it does, I think, give reason for concern because any time that you are extending a time away for three to four weeks, or rather giving that as a time away. Who knows?

At the end of that, you know, when there's the reevaluation, if he's going to be good to go or not. And so it's the first time that I think during this season, we do have to consider like, oh, geez, what if he's not? Yeah. You know, 100% or at worst, even available, you know, for a post-season run. because the longer you get,

we're already in mid-March, you know, if we're already talking about a month from now, maybe earliest, he comes back. You know, these teams are done by early mid-May. And so that's not very long,

even if he does make it back in a uniform, right? Hope he can. Hope he can. It's scary. Anytime you hear the word Achilles. Yes. Achilles,

Achilles, Rupcher, I don't care what the word is. 27-foot tall. Yeah, I don't like to hear the word Achilles. in association with a professional athlete. That's terrifying, no matter what the severity of the injury or the pain is.

And for AD, you know, I'm sure the Lakers are playing it extra, extra, extra, extra cautious because it's an Achilles injury and Achilles problem. And so in some ways, it's very terrifying that any time a player's absence is extended. But in others, why would the Lakers not be extra cautious here? home court, at least as of now, isn't a significant factor. We'll see what happens with the COVID vaccine. And, you know, it's awesome seeing, like, all the social media posts of, you know, friends and family and players starting to get the vaccine and all that.

So maybe we'll have fans and arenas by, you know, the middle of the postseason, but maybe not. So there's not really the incentive there for getting a top seed. And for the Lakers, if AD is not healthy, you're not going anywhere or anywhere. You know, so like, like if you're listening to pros and cons of being extra cautious, the pros, you know, there's little in the cons column. What's crazy is that the further do drop down the standings, though, the high, the chance they get a really hard, really tough first round upon. They could theoretically face the clippers in the first round, Chris. That's possible.

That's not impossible. If Denver or. Certainly not. Move up. It's not impossible at all. No, it's not impossible at all. And by the way, thoughts with Jared Dudley, because, you know, he tore up the knee. Dudley, he doesn't play a lot of minutes, obviously, for the Lakers, but by all accounts,

has been an amazing locker room guy for them, kind of a, you know, a leader for them in many cases, and very good with their young players over the course of the last couple of years. And I've gotten to know Dudley over the years. And he's going to be an outstanding media guy, whatever he decides to hang it up. But it does sound like this is not even as bad as that injury sounded. It's not something that's going to require surgery, that it's probably going to be a healing process. But who knows, anytime you're, you know, past a decade, decade and a half into your career and you catch an injury, it's not good. So thoughts with him.

But yeah, on the Lakers front, you're right. And I also, when you were talking about you don't ever like to hear Achilles, you think about how much we have changed to probably, even subconsciously because of the Durant thing, you know? And the whole, geez, you know, there's this level of reassurance that, you know, there's not a massive risk of him getting some kind of career all. altering injury and then he gets a career-altering injury at the time is what it seemed like. Now, he has come back.

Exactly. He's bounced back just fine. But that happened, and it happened on the biggest stage ever. And it, you know, you wonder if that changes a lot of people's view on things going forward, including the Lakers in this particular situation, because that's enough to scare the hell out of you when you, I mean, look, you got Bob Myers crying in a damn press conference. You know, because the guy, we just watched him, blow it out on national TV. And it's like, oh, my God. Even the Nets with KD himself.

He has a hamstring injury right now. But, you know, anytime a part of the body is hurt, other parts of the body begin to compensate. And that can lead to further injury or even more serious injury. And so for Kevin Durant, he's out another two weeks with Brooklyn, you know, maybe that'll be longer than two weeks. We'll see what happens there. I think that this is starting. You know, now that you say that, and I haven't really thought about it. It's starting to be a thing in terms of exercising an extreme amount of caution,

especially with these seven-footers, right? Because it's so hard to find the athletic seven-footer that hasn't had a myriad of problems. Right. Bosch was able to have this very long career, but he wasn't exactly, like early in his career as a much more dynamic athletic player than later. Same with Powell, but like you think about the kid in Orlando, uh, Isaac, you think about Porzingis, you think about

Anthony Davis, you think about obviously Durant made it a long time before he ever got hurt, but I- He had the foot surgery years ago. But I see it daily with, it's three seasons with Jaron Jackson Jr. We just went through it last night again, and I know it's a hand, but we went through it with Marvin

Backley, where these guys, it's three consecutive years of them not being able to play even close to full seasons. You know? And so, and Jerry Jackson Jr. was supposed to be bad by now. But there is like,

I think what we're seeing around the league is an extreme amount of caution, especially this season with the amount of games. You know, the guys, the teams are now condensed and all that. Yeah,

and they're holding guys out longer than they normally would. Well, I mean, and it so happens that some of these teams, you know, especially Brooklyn and L.A.,

their run begins in May. That's right. You know, Like that's when the season really begins for some of these teams of championship aspirations. They're not fighting for a spot. They will have a spot. I mean, unless, you know, the Lakers have some serious collapse. I mean, just to just to throw that thought out there, Chris, they're only four and a half up on San Antonio for the seventh spot.

Come on. San Antonio, I believe, I believe they have the hardest schedule in the NBA the rest of the way. Or it's close to. Yeah. They had only, you know, when we got to the All-Star break, San Antonio had only played 13 road games the whole season. That's crazy. That is crazy, right? They're a fun team still.

They are fun team. Yeah, they're fun. And Dejante Murray's had a, you know, like, they've gotten kind of, you know, and now that Alderge has kind of gotten out of the way, it's even more growth for a lot of their younger guys. And they got a bunch of perimeter guys for sure. All right. Let's move on to the rest of the Western Conference. You mentioned a little bit earlier in passing. McCollum back, which is great.

So good. To see a guy get injured, you know, at the very beginning of the season, he was having, this felt like the year that McCollum was going to get his rewards, right? That he now is probably that Mike Conley, best guy to not be an All-Star, everybody accepts he's great. But, I mean, he was on a Brad Beale. like trajectory when he went out. He was killing it.

And then he got injured, but it's awesome that he gets to come back within the same season. And they have been mega impressive being able to hold down the fort without him and without Nurkich. You know, that Portland team deserves a lot of credit because now they've got him back and they could make a run. You know, their continuity is going to pay real dividends, you know,

when you play this many games in a short amount of time, and you've got your guy back healthy when inevitably some other teams are going to get injured guys. Yeah, you get NERC back in a couple weeks, and hopefully NERC is able to be better than he was early in the season. Like pre-injury Nerkich was a different level on the defensive end of the floor. And the guy we saw earlier this year wasn't quite the same. Hopefully he can get back to pre-injury level.

And, well, that can happen. And C.J. McCollum, you mentioned how he was just killing him, just to state his numbers, he was averaging 27 points on 11 3-pointers per game. 11-3s per game. Ridiculous. Out of 20 shots per game total. So over half of his shot attempts were threes compared to last season,

he was 7.3, 3-pointers per game to 19.4 total shots per game. So the guy was just jacking up more 3 than ever before. And I wonder if he'll keep that up because it seemed to me with the shot selection, it was by design. Well, yeah. And the other crazy thing, Kiv, is every time they do those lists of the best mid-range scorers in the NBA, he's right at the top. Like, he's in the top, you know, four or five guys every time because he gets to this one

spot, you know, kind of elbow extended, and he can bury that. And so it is one of those guys that backs it up a few feet. And all of a sudden, now you're talking about major, major production. He was always a great shooter. I mean, this was the insanely frustrating thing in many people's minds about Aldridge, right? Aldridge is an outstanding mid-range guy. You know, I mean, it feels like he could hit 100 elbow jumpers in a row, and he could even hit the long twos. And he just would never just decide, I'm going to back this up a few feet because he, you know, he's not going to play in the paint either.

But some guys, you know, that are these, you already knew this guy's a great shooter. He just backed it up a few feet. And now, look, I mean, that was, he was on his way to having career year for sure. Sure. And, you know, the thing with McCollum is, according to cleaning the glass for five consecutive seasons, over 40% of his shot attempts came from mid-range. The number only dipped to 36% in his first 13 games of the season before the injury. So it was taken from the at-rim shots, mostly.

He wasn't getting to the rim quite as much, but we did see the dip at. rim. We saw a slight dip for mid-range and just the huge jump from three. I wonder how much of this is just a guy, you know, leaning into the fact that I'm one of the best shooters in basketball. I'm one of the best shooters in basketball. He always has been off the dribble from mid-range or from three. Why not just take more of those? You know, and I'm excited to see if he does that coming back because it looked for real to me. Yeah. It looked for real what he was doing. Phoenix is still cooking and they are, you know, as I said, I think they really have a chance of possibly being the number one seed. I know on the surface that may sound crazy, but as you

chronicled, they're only a couple of games back. And I watched them, the Grizzlies were in a bad spot where they're three of, you know, three games in four days and many times you're, you know, getting thrown to the lions on those games. But the other team still has to play. And watching Phoenix last night. I will tell you, Kevin, I texted my buddies in the middle of that game and I said,

look now, I don't care who they draw. They are going to be a bitch in the playoffs because they've gotten, you know, Bridges wasn't all that great last night,

but he's still such a defensive menace. Oh, yeah, he had a great defensive game. They've thrown Crowder into the mix on there. They can really make it difficult on you

to live in the, the paint, you know, because they can kind of slice down and then they've got, you know, eight in there. And so your drives, the perimeter guys are so good. It's hard to drive on them. But anyways, when I said they're going to be such a bitch, if they don't get injured, I promise you this, nobody is eliminating them in a series before it gets to a sixth or a seventh game.

I like to hear that, Chris. They won't. nobody is going to beat that team in five games. They could get two games off of anybody. That's where I would say. Now, I don't know what, you know, again, for a lot of those guys, it's going to be their first lumps that they've taken. But they have got guys that do have a track record of, they got a lot of playoff games under their belt. Guys like Chris Paul, guys like Jay Crowder do have a lot of playoff appearance games under their belt.

But that team is going to be very, very difficult. to deal with and they have been, ha, you change the background? They've been outstanding. I mean, they have not slowed down. You know, for a while there, Utah was so absurd that people didn't notice Phoenix was winning every night, right? Because Utah was like, you know, 19 and 0, and then they're like 21 and 1.

I don't like hearing those two numbers together, Chris. Oh, sorry. They were on. They were on these crazy streets, Utah, and so they were the ones and they were the ones at the top of the standing, so they were getting all the talk, the talk, the talk. But that's going to flip, especially if Phoenix doesn't slow down, and people are going to start, you mark my word, people are going to start getting their guys into talks of all NBA, MVP conversations, et cetera, because the record's just going to be so good. Yeah, sorry, I'm just thinking of 19-0. Whenever I hear those numbers together, I think about Brandon Jacobs not getting stopped on fourth down. I think about Asante Samuel dropped the interception. I didn't mean to bring that.

I think about the helmet catch. I think about Brandon Maryweather dropped the interception too. I think of all right. I thought the ball on his fingertips on the Brady heel, Mary. Let's let's move on from that. Not thinking about 19. What was the thing? What was the thing? Bradley Cooper here's in Silver Lightning's Playbook? I can't remember what it was in the years. Maybe Sasha remembers. I can't. there's something that triggers him in order to, and then he flips out.

That's how I feel like about that when I say, when I say something like that to you. And I'm like, wait, what just happened? But it just sends you off. I was texting with Danny Haifitz the other day, who's a Giants fan. Yeah. Does an awesome NFL stuff for us with the ringer.

And he just, he sent me a gif of Super Bowl 42. Oh, no. And we were talking about Tom Brady. And then I just pulled up the game on YouTube. Oh, no. That's what it does to me, Chris. That's what it does to me.

I watched it and I sent him some screenshots of some of the moments that break my heart the most. But anyway, let's move on to something that makes my heart warm and happy. And that's the Phoenix Suns. The team formerly known as the Bright Future Suns, now the Bright Present. Now, Suns. Right present. Now the brighter future sons. The bright future sons.

The bright future son, brighter future sons. Yep. Chris, they are a championship contender. Of course they are. It's wide open. It's wide open right now in the Western Conference. And this team, for all the reasons you stated, they have the star power and Devin Booker and Chris Paul, guys who can get you a bucket at the end of the clock,

guys who make a defensive impact. Booker has had so many chase down blogs following a turnover this year. It's crazy to watch him at least attempt to do those. And they have the wing defenders. Mekyll Bridges had some awesome possessions against John Moran last night. You saw that, you felt that, how he can cause issues. Jay Crowder, Dario Sarich, if it weren't for Jordan Clarkson, having the year he's having. I would say Sarich is a deserving six man of the year.

At the least, he should be a candidate. He's been so good for them. They have depth on their bench. Cameron Payne has been a solid backup point guard. They have your guy, Javon Carter, if they needed offensive stopper in there. Abdul Nader coming off the bench, playing some things. 3 and D wing for them? Slow down.

Slow down. I mean. And then D.A. I was with you. I was with the Adre. man, he's been good defensively. I know. And doing what he needs to do on offense.

Shout out to, you know, James Jones. You know, he finally. Did you end up reading my, my son's feature all 5,000 words? I've heard Bobby Dick instead.

Okay. I understand. But you should check out the son's feature. The I read him all. I was trying to read shorter things first. And then I read the Bible again. Real quickly, James Jones did the, and this has been a tried and true method of team building since the beginning of time. And that is to get good players.

And so congratulations to James Jones for getting good players. The Chris Rund philosophy. Reaping the benefits of that. after all these years. Chris Vernon gets hired as general manager of the Grizzlies in the future and say, well, what's your plan for the theme? I'm going to get good players.

That's what I'm going to do. I'm getting good players. We don't want to play guys who suck. This irony is not lost of me that the bright future sons have become bright futureed by attaining a 37-year-old point card or whatever they got.

Well, there's a great quote in my story from James Jones. I asked him, like what's the secession plan for Chris Paul? I was like, this guy's old. His contract is up in a couple years. What's your plan for after him? And he's like, well, the succession plan for Chris Paul could be Chris Paul. You know, and he talked about how players age and I didn't have to quote in there,

but he talked about like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and all these other old guys in different sports that extended their careers by adapting. And he sees Chris Paul doing that. I've thought about this. You remember I told you. people could go find this. Adrian Wojianowski had on Mike Dantone

this was after the Westbrook deal and I came on here and I told you bro, you can listen to that and he's trying to say the right things but it is so obvious that he loves Chris Paul he loves Chris Paul

and he even says on that pod that he thinks Chris Paul is going to be awesome for three more years so like this is not a guy at the end like this guy is going to be his guy is going to still be awesome and you could just tell that he was like trying to feign excitement about it working with hardin and westbrook but he loved paul and you could tell it when you listen to the guy because i can speak to this too because i spoke to dantony before that season and for a story that never ended up happening and and dantony said to me he's like i don't understand all these people that's

say he's done. He's like, I don't feel like they're watching the game. Chris Paul has a game built to last. And he's like, obviously there are some issues there, but the way this guy has performed, the way he can perform, he's going to prove a lot of people wrong. And then he comes out in OKC and does what he did. And also when talking to Antonio that year, like, I could tell like there were some iffy concerns about how to get Russ to fit with James Hardin. And obviously, we saw that play out in some good ways during the season, but then also some bad ways as as the postseason approach. So for Dan Tony, I look back at that woge pod and the convo I had with him,

he was right. He was right about Chris Paul. And it really shows how much situation, environment, system, all player role in a player's production. And the version of Chris Paul we've seen with OKC and now with Phoenix, dude's just as good as he's ever been. I mean, so when we talk about the age aspect, the line I had in my article that like I think, you know, was always what I felt about Tom Brady.

was always what I felt. Tom Brady was so great at age X. I was like, well, he can get a little bit worse and still be really good. He can be a game managing quarterback. Same concept with Chris Paul. He's an all-star player, arguably an all-NBA player. And if he gets worse, there's a lot of room for him to get worse and still be good because he's still super, super great right now.

And it just feels like, he can get worse. There are guys, this is the different level of players, which is the guys that when you get them, it's going to be very difficult for you not to be pretty good. And if you've got other players around them, you're going to be outstanding. And we learned this with Jimmy Butler. He's gone from place to place to place, and he's not on crap teams. And Chris Paul, he's not on crap teams, ever. He's never on crappy teams.

Since the New Orleans days. He was, you know what I mean? He wasn't on crappy teams. generally if you've got him your team is good and that is guys that truly affect winning and losing and we saw it with Butler to a major major degree there's a lot of players that are outstanding players that could be on your team but you could still not be very good but there's a different level of guys that you know if you've got them your team is if they're one of your five guys that play big minutes your team's going to be good and because they just have

such a profound impact on the whole thing. And Chris Ball's that guy. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Let's touch on a couple other things in the Western Conference real quick. As you mentioned earlier about Yokin, she's clearly smack dab in the middle of the MVP talks. That team has gotten going. Denver started out pretty slow. I saw them in person just a few days ago, and it was interesting because it oddly

impressed me a lot for me to watch a game. The game I saw, Jamal Murray had three points and was one of 14 from the field, and they were still able to win because they had Will Barton, who was able to give him 20-something, and Porter Jr., who was able to give him 20-something in the game. And I do think that the Barton, not being in the mix last year, went overlooked, you know, by a lot of people.

Because that is, he brings, He brings some real scoring punch on the nights where maybe your big guys get a tremendous amount of attention. And the Porter thing, you know, they want him to elevate into like the third guy. Poor kids, you know, what? He's been through COVID twice. I mean, he's had like a million things go on. And he's just now getting his legs underneath them. Huh?

Some personal choices there too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and he's just getting his legs underneath them. And I mean, look, he's not standing. talent. Yeah, no doubt about it.

You do see the flashes of him growing into. Could he be that consistent nightly? He's your third guy, you know, and maybe even better than that whenever he reaches his apex. But they've gotten going. You know what I mean? They've figured this out. And as you talked about, Murray had been on an absolute rampage, but it was fascinating. even the night where he got really slowed down,

they still had guys that could get a bucket. And I'll tell you what, man, Michael Porter, Jr., got to give him respect for improving our defense. The guy he was last season, and especially in the bubble, was a poor defender, a bad defender, really at times an unforgivable defender with the effort and focus levels. That's changed. He's become at least acceptable, passable, and sometimes really, really good, especially when he's locked in, you know, as a help defender in the weak side,

he's impactful. And 6-10 can help rotate over, alter a shot, really stop what an offense wants to do, got to give respect for somebody for turning it on defensively and embracing what they need to do to be a star within their role. Because sometimes it's going to be scoring for him. He's going to have plenty of nights he gets 20 plus points. But there's other nights like he's going to give it on defense. And Michael Porter's doing that.

And that's helping make Denver look more complete as a team. Like you mentioned Will Bart and Chris, that spark he can provide on a. night, Jamal Murray's one for 14 with three points. Michael Porter Jr. being able to make a defensive impact, all those supporting pieces help lift up Yokic and help lift up what this team can be together. And, you know, we said earlier, the championship race is wide open. Do you do put Denver anywhere close to the Phoenix, Utah level for the teams that can upset either L.A. team, you do?

Of course. You have to because they've got their, they've got their scars. They got their MVP and Yokic, they've been through it too. Unlike Phoenix. Phoenix hasn't been through it. Chris Paul has personally. Like, he's been through it. You know, Jay Crowder's been through it.

It's very, very rare for a team not that playoff scars. Yeah. Yeah. You know? And that'll be the first go round for DeAndre Aiton and Bucker and Bridges. Yeah, some of their major players. And that was part of the story. You didn't read like Jay Crowder said Bridges and Cam Johnson, all these young guys

come to him like, what's it like in the postseason? They have questions. They don't have experiences. Denver has experience. Utah has experience. experience. And in some ways, that could give them an edge compose season time. By the way,

Yokic is also unstoppable. Yeah, he's awesome, dude. Like, seriously, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter who you have. He is a force of nature. And so having him in a series, he's, you know, he's the best guy in

most series that he plays in. So, of course, his team deserves to be up there in the mix with the other contenders. A few other things. I've watched, I've seen the end of these fourth quarters of these Minnesota games recently. And, you know, if they're the early game, I'll get to catch more of them. But watching them down the stretch the other night in their game and the ball being in Anthony Edwards' hands every single possession was, I mean, they are so much more fun to watch now than him just standing around and whoever, like, you know, Towns and Rubio trying to run some fail.

pick and roll or some dreadful kickout to somebody that can't make a shot. Like this, they look now like they have a structure and some level of accountability. And we certainly seen, and it's taken a long time, you know, in the mix, but you've certainly seen there are moments where you watch that, you have the Edwards experience where you're like, okay, like this could, like this could happen. because, I mean, there's size, straight, athleticism, the combo that he's got. And his handle, I mean, he can, he can drive and he can get there quickly and so powerful. Like, man, oh, man, he, there, there, you could watch.

I see, you know, what those scouts saw. If you just made the super cut of him, which is what everybody watched from Georgia, and you watch that, you'd go, Jesus. like this guy this guy could be unbelievable and I will say that you didn't see much of that outside of the assassination

of you to Wadanabe earlier in the year but recently you certainly have it's a shame that happened to Wannadabbe he's been a great help defender for the Toronto Raptors love the love the effort Wannabi puts into the defense of the floor

Anthony Edwards I bet he sent a thank you note to Ritchie Jackson the other night I mean Reggie Jackson I mean I mean God

Jackson Hayes dunk man what Jackson Hayes did to him is that's pretty brutal but that's what an athlete like Anthony Edwards can do

he can just destroy a defensive player with his combination of athleticism brute force yeah it's wild what he can do

once you do that a couple of times people start getting the hell out of the way yeah yeah you're right you're like hey I'll pass.

Not going to be me. Business decision and all that. But with Anthony Edwards, man, you know, Lamello is all the talk right now, and rightfully so. You know, LeBello would probably go number one

in a redraft today, you know, but Anthony Edwards cannot be ruled out as a guy who still achieve stardom. Can't be. He just can't be,

Chris, with that combination of skills. Now. Yeah. And they are in a much better spot with Finch. You know, Minnesota fans had tweeted us saying,

you know, Finches, like, while the wins aren't there, yet this competition level has gotten greater. And they were watching and they were seeing a level of competence from their team that they had not seen in a long time. And I'm here to tell you that when I watch them, you can absolutely tell. I just thought that Ryan Saunders version, when I watch them, I'm like, what the hell is the point here? Seriously. Like, what's the point? Are we developing young players?

Are we trying to win? Does anybody, does it matter if anybody make some egregious error or not? Is there any accountability? You know, it just, I don't know, it just looked like a rudderless ship to me. But they certainly have, you know, it's funny. Them and Oak City are right there at the very bottom, but they're going to play spoiler for a lot of teams down the stretch, Kev. They're going to ruin a lot of people's.

Yeah, they're going to ruin a lot of people's hopes. Just because people are going to come in, they're going to look at their record and they're going to say, ah, it's a win. And OKC has made a living off of picking people off like that. O'KC's not quite at the bottom, though. Your Sacramento and Houston are below them in the standings, you know. And O'KC's again back from your Memphis Grizzlies. But when you look at their roster, when you watch them, they are, they put out a line on.

They're coming for the 10 spot. The funniest thing was I had this guy who's a Memphis fan who, I guess in Oklahoma And he, so, you know, of course, everybody follows is either like a follower of the Grizzlies or a follower of the Thunder. And he said, it is the crazy experience of my entire timeline is pissed off fans. Memphis fans are pissed off because they lost. And Oklahoma City fans are pissed off because they won. And so everybody's mad about this loss. and I swear, Kevin.

Tell me about Poku, Chris. I don't know what I did. Please tell me about Alexei Pocchevsky, who scored a career high points against the Memphis Grizzlies and looked at the part of a good two-way player as one of the youngest guys sent to the league in many, many years. It would come into the game shooting 25% from the field, 31% from the field in the G-League bubble,

and all of a sudden turned into Dirk Novitsky and Carnet. against the Memphis Grizzlies. And, you know, he had, I want to say like the first five and maybe he had like eight in the first quarter. And I'm like,

bro, what is going on? And next thing you know, he put together the whole game. The whole game, he had blocks. He had, I mean,

he was going. Poku. Oh, I was losing by bye. I'm like, is this happening? Like, what? Crew.

like not only a career game like five times better than any game he's ever played in his life against the grizzlies and I'm like this is what I get seriously it's what I get and let me just say I was not the one

that on our drafting murdered Poku in the manner that our buddy Bill Simmons did Bill Simmons is the one that said, that guy's going to suck. Oh, come on, Chris. Did I laugh hysterically and join in piling on you?

Indeed, I did. But that wasn't me that said he's going to suck. Did I look at him and say, I think it's going to be hard for a hundred pound man to survive in the NBA? I did. Have I gotten off by poker jokes? Let's not disrespect him. He's seven feet, 195 pounds. Oh, 1905.

Okay. Come on. And 80 of it is head. Oh my God. But look, he's obviously a mismatch listener. Poku, big fan of ours, and he was going to stick it to me. He's going to stick it to me, and he did. He stuck it to me.

Poku just went absolutely off, you know. In all seriousness, though, Chris. Like, he looked legitimately good. Oh, yes. And, like, we talk about flashes of stardom from Anthony Edwards. What about flashes of being like a super versatile two-way piece for a good team? That's what he looked like. Active and aware help defense.

Versatile on the ball. Offensively being able to drain threes, put the ball on the floor, make some passes for his teammates. That was the appeal in this mystery box player who is so young, who's so raw, who's so rail thin. That's the appeal of what of you get, if you can get those types of nights from him. more frequently in four years, five years, six years, when we're talking about him in his mid-20s, there's a really high-end player in there.

I find him endlessly entertaining. He's so fun. And like the mentality too. Like he's so confident. Yes. And he runs hard. Yeah, man, he plays hard. He does.

He runs the floor. Yeah. You know, but I mean, even as we're watching that game, my son was watching with me, every time he did something good, we were going,

poker! And I'm like, I told him, I said, William, this guy is busting our ass. It was crazy. Unbelievable. Okay, see, dude. She Gil was Alexander had a great night, too. He's awesome. Yeah, I'm not, I don't really want to talk about that.

Don't want to talk about Shay. Don't want to talk about Shay. That's Dillon Pissed him off and he just. Yeah. Yeah. And you gain a respect for a guy because he's, he was obviously not one to be trifled with. Some guys could kind of get shook a little bit.

If you get up in their face or you make them mad, it felt like he got some shit talk to him, and he just decided, all right. Now, watch these step-bag jays. I mean, they went through a stretch. And that's a thing with them. They can catch you. They went, there was one point in that fourth quarter,

they shot eight, three, seven of them dropped. Seven. They went seven for eight from three. And I'm like, yo, what is happening? They were just, again, they'll stick with you. And if you give them, that's how they have those wins. People get up on them and then they dick around. And then they make you pay for it because they keep going hard.

And they got a bunch of guys. Like, you look at their lineups, it's like guys that just want to get minutes. Poku wants to be out there. Moses Brown wants to be out there. Kendra Williams. Ty Jerome. He started. Boy, I like Ty Jerome. I still like him.

Yeah. He's got some talent. He's got bad spots, right? Because he got drafted by that Phoenix team. And then he's like, you know, third four string already. You know, it's just a bad spot to get drafted. And then he got moved over. And so Oklahoma City, he might get the opportunity.

He was good in that G-League bubble, I believe. And so, yeah, I like him, though. He's smart, steady, you know, he kind of, you remember Kirk Heinrichi. You know, back from the day. He was a really good buyer, Kirk Heinrich. A couple other things real quickly. Oh, the poker thing. And then obviously my bad run continued last night with Bagley getting hurt.

Catch a break, Chris. I such a nasty text about that. A hundred and eleven games the guys played. That is the damnedest thing. It's three years. A hundred and eleven days. And I know that you're out on Bagley. He had improved every month.

That text last night was a joke. I didn't add an LOL or smiley face, but it was a joke. He's had a lot of good bad fortune on his side. Every month this year, he had improved, and I thought he was starting to get it, you know, where he, that points per game, he was up to, I believe, 15 last month. Huh? How about his defense, though? That hasn't gone much better.

Well, look, there's a lot of guys that you could say that about, you know, I know there's super clips of him being terrible, but if I wanted to, super clip Zion every night. I could make everybody believe he's the worst defensive player in the NBA. Well, okay. He went to Duke too, by the way. What I texted you last night was like, give it up, Chris.

You know, Bagley stinks and all that. It was a joke. Like, Bagley is still only 22 years old. He just turned 22 on March 14th. Like, he's freshly 22. This guy's still a young guy who's missed a lot of games. And it's hard to get better on defense when you're not playing consistently. When you have different head coaches every year,

different personnel. It's a mess in Sacramento. It still isn't great there. Even though you have a nice rookie in Tyrese Halliborne, even though you have Deerun Fox, it's still a mess. It's hard for a player to get better at the intricacies of defense. And we've seen that with Bagley. So Luke's not going to be there long, is he? I don't know. We'll see. That thing's going the wrong way quick. I mean, I mean, who is going to be there long? I don't know. Sacramento? I don't know, man. I don't know what to expect for that team. I feel bad for their fans, man. I do. I do. Kings fans, you talk about passionate fans. I know what.

Kings fans are passionate. You know, some of those good Kings teams from the early 2000s, great crowds, great energy. I'd love for that to be back. I'd love for that to be back someday.

It's just, I'm sorry this is happening to you. It's awful. Tough go. Go. Just focus on that podcast and not on the games. And to Riley from the ringer. It works on our editorial side.

I'm sorry, Riley. Few other things real quickly. Trade deadlines coming up quick, so we do need to just mention a couple names. John Collins, you know, Tim Bontem's had a very good article on ESPN about some rumors and notes. He talked to us some executives around the league.

The Collins thing is fascinating because it's a guy that, you know, people think we're going to get maxed, and they kind of brought up that they might reluctantly max, you know, if they had to, but they wouldn't feel happy about it, you know, just not to lose the asset if they can't move him.

He's got to, I mean, look, he's $4.1 million. So, I mean, you know, not getting proper return on John Collins. Now, again, you might lose him in the offseason if you don't match. But they're in a weird spot, Kev, because you might be able to get something back for a team that thinks they could sign him long term, but you're trying to make the playoffs. And I don't think we're moving John Collins. Are you going to get better by moving off of John Collins?

I suppose you could. But I don't know. you're trying to make the playoffs now, I kind of feel like they're going to hang on to him and then just play it out in the off season, right? I think it depends on what the offers are, how strong they get. I mean, you're talking about a young 23-year-old big man who is so dynamic offensively with

three-point shooting, rim running, lob dunks, and defensively, you know, we just talked about bagley, it takes time for young bigs to get better. And Collins, hopefully, by the time he's 26, 27, or even sooner, could be better than he is today on defense. So there's a lot of value there. For team trades for him now, yeah, he's going to be a restricted free agent, but the word restricted there is the key. Any offer can be matched from the team that has his rights.

And so now is the time for a team to trade for him. The question is, like you said, with Atlanta, you're pretty good right now. And John Collins is a nice fit with Trey Young on the offensive end of the floor. You're trying to make the postseason. Maybe the best time to trade John Collins is a sign and trade scenario over the off season. But that's challenging, too, though, because he can just out right sign with somebody else. He could just all right sign an offer sheet. You know, I was thinking about this last night with the whole, in such a massive pick and roll league, and this is in conjunction with the Bagley thing, too.

How many power forwards do we consider to be, like, defensive forces anymore? It's just like the tradeoff for offense defense there and what the positions that they're put in routinely throughout the game. Like there's Anthony Davis. He stands out like a sore thumb. But like generally, I mean, there's a reason people covet, you know, 45-year-old PJ Tucker right now, right? Because it's not common. Like so many of them, there's so many guys that we can bring up that are outstanding

young players and dynamite offensive players that we say, yeah, but they're defense, right? And I do think that that has been, it's been a real trend. There's not a lot of defensive stalwarts, you know, play. playing that position anymore. One other name that I do want to mention, because we'll talk more about this on Friday with the different names. Lonzo.

And the reason I'm bringing him up is because while the Pelicans have not had the season that they've wanted to have so far, Lonzo, and we've talked about his brother quite a bit, you know, my man fast break breakfast put this out.

This was on their pod the other day. This year, Trey Young has shot 248 threes and has made 94 of them for 38%. Lanzo Ball has shot 278. He has shot 30 more threes than Trey Young and has hit 108 at 39%. I mean, you want to win a bar bet assuming you, have a bar you could even go to. Lonzo Ball having more makes and a higher percentage than Trey Young is something that I think

would shock everybody from three. And so he's added that to the mix. And you wonder he's a clutch guy. You know, he's headed to restricted. You know, he obviously wants to get a massive, massive contract. I don't know. You think, you think Lonzo is a moved piece? or do you think that he's part of that future there

if you're trying to build out the pelicans? I'll be honest with you. I don't know. There's so much mixed stuff out there about what Lonzo's feature will be with New Orleans. All of those trade rumors that were out there a month and a half ago or so have really quieted down. But that doesn't mean teams have stopped wanting to get them.

All right. Last thing, anybody in the NCAA tournament, you are 100% going to go out of your way to watch. I mean, the top guys, Kate Cunningham, Kevin Mobley. I mean, goes without saying with them. We do have the 2021 ringer NBA draft guide with my scouting reports dropping, I believe, on Thursday.

We're going to launch it with just 15 players. But we'll be adding more and more as the weeks go by. Kai Jones from Texas, real raw big man. How about Corey Kispert from Gonzaga? All right. Lockdown shooter who's gotten better each year. Man, that Gonzaga team, holy hell. They're good, huh?

Jalen Suggs. Suggs is freaky. You know, Suggs is, there's a couple of times where you watch him during the game and you're like, I mean, his head is above the rim as a guard snatching it. And you know what I learned about him last week? he was a big-time football player. Yeah. Suggs.

You know, and it kind of makes sense when you watch him, right? Yeah, he's a quarterback. And when you watch him, too, but, I mean, he was recruited by all manner of big-time schools to be a quarterback, Chailin Suggs, dual-threat quarterback. And so, boy, I like him.

I do like it. That kids, I get a team is dynamite. I watch them over the weekend. And by the way, I have to mention this because last spring, we did our like deep cut draft guys. And do you remember who one of my guys was? It was an SEC guy.

He wasn't on any mocks. I don't remember. Herb Jones. SEC player of the year. SEC champion two seed. He's on mox now. Herb Jones. Now, I don't know where he'll end up.

He's more like, you know, energy, defense, rebound, tenacity, whatever. But yeah, he went back to school and just killed everybody this year. He was great. What do you think about Mac Jones? The quarterback? Yeah. Really? I'm thinking about Patriots targets.

I saw McShay had him going to the 49ers like 9th or 10th or something and had five quarterbacks in the top 10 in his mock. In his mock yesterday. I said, what the hell happened? Where have I been? Because with the Patriots, they have had such a spending spree and free agency. Again, John O. Smith and Hunter Henry at Tide-N. It got Cam back, but the Cam Newton contract is very incentivized. You know, like, it's the type of deal that Patriots have given in the past where they let guys go.

But Cam, Cam, Cam could be the starter. Like, you know, he could be the starter. But it just makes me think that they have big plans for the draft with a move up possibly. Because usually if they're signing players, if you look at their historical decisions, when they're signing a lot of guys, they're trading picks. So we'll see with the Patriots. It's always so hard because you don't want it.

I'd say this, that guy throws an unbelievable deep ball. You never want it to be a demerit that you played with all pros. Yeah. But it's so hard, right? It's easier when the guy

elevates the entire team and you know that he wasn't, but like some of these guys that he was throwing to, these guys could be Hall of Fame. NFL play. Devonte Smith and Waddle. It's like, come on, this is embarrassing.

And his running back is going to go in the first round. Adjiaires. So it's like it's so hard. It's almost like the, it's hard to give the guys maybe the credit that they deserve. But look, Burrow turned out pretty damn good. And it's not like he was throwing the chop

liver, you know, at LSU. For sure. Jefferson ended up being amazing for Minnesota too. So I don't know. like him? Yeah, I like him. I watched a video of him last night. I was talking with my buddy Bill, who's a note for a long time. You got that Belichick Segment connection too, right? Exactly. Exactly. Belichick will know everything he needs to know about about Mac Jones.

All right. It's going to do it for today's show. Thanks to producer, Sasha. As always, we will talk to you on Friday.