The Mismatch - The Cinderella Lakers, Standings Check-In, and March Madness Prospects

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

Verno and KOC go through last night’s slate of Sweet 16 games and discuss which players' draft stock rose (01:33). After the Pelicans beat the Bucks, the guys debate just how high their ceiling is with Zion playing at this level (14:00). Next, they discuss the Hawks' OT win over the Celtics and debate what is going to happen with Dejounte Murray and Trae Young, as well as Tom Haberstroh’s latest report suggesting that Jaylen Brown is a better clutch performer than Jayson Tatum (22:38). They also discuss the Lakers' five-game winning streak, Joel Embiid’s potential return, and the Timberwolves' ownership mess (35:31). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Have you ever wondered about the meaning behind your favorite song lyric or why certain melodies make your skin tingle? I'm Cole Kushner and these are the kinds of questions I try to answer on Dissect, a podcast that dives deep into one album per season examining the music, lyrics, and meaning of one song per episode. I've dissected full albums by Kendrick Lamar, Radiohead, Tyro the Creator, Beyonce, Kanye, and more. Our latest season just launched all about MF Doom's Mad Villainee. Listen to Dissect wherever you get your podcast because great art deserves more than a swipe. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me on this Friday morning from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor,

aka Kevin O'Bombermer, Kevin O'Camara, Kevin O'Candellon, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor, for those of you that cannot see the video, is wearing a John Morant is scared of MacMachl. T-shirt. I suppose this is a reference to John Morant not playing in the G League. Look, the reason we are recording this on Friday morning instead of Thursday night is because you were at an epic NCAA basketball game last night. I don't think that you headed to Los Angeles figuring you were going to see the Grant Nelson show,

but that's what you got as Alabama ousted the number one seed in the West region, North Carolina. I can only imagine how awesome that was to be at in person. Oh my God, the games were amazing. They're incredible. Both of them were really great. I mean, we ended up, you know,

I said to Jay Kyle Mann on the Rigger NBA draft show over this week, I was like, well, hopefully we're scouting. We get Arizona, North Carolina. but ultimately, Chris, it doesn't matter. The entertainment aspects of ending up with the matchups that we're getting with North Carolina, losing to Alabama. And then, you know, you got Clemson upset and taking punch after punch in the earlier game. And it's coming out with the victory. But Grant Nelson was the star of the night.

The dude was amazing. Blocking shots just swatting them away, you know, like a big kid playing with little kids around the rim. The shots around the rim. the fluid finishing. He just looked like a dominant force. This is the guy that a lot of people have been waiting for all season long at Alabama after he transferred. And they got him in the biggest game of the season.

It's crazy. He had six points in the opening two rounds for Bama. The last time he had 24 points was the first game of the season against Moorhead State. He does it against the tiles. That's what you sent me back after I said, Grant Nelson, number one on the big board. That's what I texted you because I knew you were at that game. And honestly, on the other game, what was crazy is who would have guessed that you and I would both see an elite eight team in person throughout this NCAA tournament and that it would be Clemson.

Because I saw Clemson in Memphis and then that was the pod that they had to go out to was out your way. And so you could have taken really long odds on that one that I would have seen Clemson. in their first round where I saw them in their game against New Mexico, which had Eddie House's kid and Jamal Mashburn's kid. And they just, I mean, just swallowed them up defensively at the game I was at. And then obviously they took care of business against Baylor, which was mega impressive. But, man, the Clemson thing, I don't think anybody saw that one coming. I can't imagine there's a lot of brackets out there that's got Clemson and their elite eight.

I can't either. I mean, look, Arizona, at one point, they tie the game in the middle of the second half, and I'm like, well, here it comes. Zona's coming, and they're probably going to steamroll the rest of the way. And then, you know, Clemson just took every punch, just punch after punch. I thought Hunter in that game was really, really good. Chase Hunter, six foot four guard, maybe six five, you know, hit some big shots for them. He was really good in that game.

PJ Hall didn't shoot three as well for Clemson, but, you know, just like the way he played, the energy he played with, the intensity on defense, the finishing around the rim on offense, the passing, he was very good. And then the Arizona side, like, if you had never watched Arizona play all season long, and this was your first time watching Arizona play all year long, you'd be like, oh, this team has no pros on it. None. Like, none of their guys that are, you know, noteworthy draft prospects were all that

impressive. Caleb Love was sloppy, five for 18, making terrible decisions out there on the floor. Larson, two for nine from the field. You know, like hit the first play, the game, he throws a terrible entry pass and he's complaining to the ref as if there should be a foul call. No, he just made a bad play. Boswell couldn't hit shots. Johnson didn't really do anything. Very noteworthy for them. So it's like up and down the roster, Arizona just had all their best players play bad games. And Clemson took full advantage. And Clemson played into that too with their intensity. They were just completely locked in on defense, as you described, when you saw them in Memphis and going to give them credit.

And we'll see if they can get through Alabama and Mark Sears, who looks like a Jaylon Brunson clone. He really does. He looked exactly. I mean, even that like down the stretch, that last drive where you could tell. they were kind of going two-man with him and Grant Nelson, and he turned the corner and finished it. And he also, look, it may be a questionable shot, but they went under a screen and he took that three when they were down,

I think, too late. It ended up bricking, but it gives you the moxie that he's got. I mean, he's a 20-point-per-game scored throughout the year, but he is, I mean, he looks like him, he moves like him, he gets to spots like him. It's weird. No, there's no question. Like his face looks like him.

I know. His body looks like him. He is college Brunson. He's also a lefty. I know. And so anybody that watches him, you cannot help but see the similarities. And you also, you know, in this weird way, you've got to think to yourself, Brunson's immense success helps a guy like that.

I know. Because people do see it and they go, yeah, look how low everybody was. They said Brunson couldn't do this. Too small. too small, not athletic enough, all that. Right. Sears, I love Sears. Oh my God, I love him. So anyways, and we talked about how guys can get help or hurt by the NCAA tournament.

And obviously, if you're on that final stage, there's no question it can help. We'll see a whole other slew of games tonight. The Clemson kids will get looks that they were not expected to probably get. Like you were talking Sears and some of the other Bama kids, for sure. UCon is at this point where it's going to feel like it's going to start to carry over to the other guys. So like when we watched the NCAA tournament that year, you're thinking about bridges, you're thinking about Brunson, you're thinking about some of the guys they got on that team. And then it like carries over.

Next thing we know, Dante DiVincenzo is getting drafted higher than he would have been when that tournament began. That'll kind of carry over to some Yukon guys, but they just look. they look unbeatable so far. I know their draw has been their draw. San Diego State obviously was not enough, but they, I mean, they beat the crap out of these teams.

And you've got to believe that it's going to carry over to where it's like not just two guys that are drafted, whoever the third and fourth guy. I think last year, right, we saw it with Andre Jackson and a couple others. Yeah, yeah. You know, you know, rising tide lifts all boats. And people are going to start looking at the other UCon

kids outside of the ones that we've all projected to be very high draft picks. Oh, for sure. And with Yukon, like, basically their whole roster is a bunch of draftable prospects. Like Donovan Klingin and Stefan Castle were the two lottery picks, but every other guy in their starting five deserves a chance. Spencer, you know, a shooter, caravan, a shooter, and Newton, you know, a tough, hard-nosed, versatile guard at their entire starting five could be drafted in the top 58 this year. That's very possible. The biggest leaper of everyone in this draft, of anyone, in my opinion, will be Shannon

if they could pull off the incredible. Oh, dude. I know. Because Shannon has been the revelation. He, for Illinois, has been absolutely unbelievable. Now, he's got the off-the-court stuff that is very serious, that everybody's going to have do an investigation into and they're going to have to figure out what's what on that, right? You know, he wrote this very long letter saying, I did not do this and it's all going to ruin

my career and everything else, which you can look at as a sob story. But if he did what he did, it's going to destroy his career anyway, right? Because you see the headlines, Terrant Shannon Jr. And everybody's going to see these, right? As soon as you Google him, you're going to see what we know about Terrence Shannon's rape charge. And the headline then leads you to believe that, oh, my God, this guy did something truly dastardly and horrible, which he did allegedly. He's at a bar drunk, I would assume. And a girl alleged in the fall that he grabbed her in the bar, that he slapped her on the behind and then grabbed her upper skirt.

believe it was. He says, I did not do this. This is not true. And obviously, the school with the zero tolerance, they suspended him. He then ends up as allowed to come back. I mean, the thing went to court. Yeah. Judge reversed. Because he's saying, hey, I deserve due process on this. You're going to destroy my entire career based on this allegation. And so we can't be judge and jury on this. I don't know what happened. I can only evaluate him as a basketball player on the court. And as a basketball player on the court, he is absolutely unbelievable. I mean, he is a top 1% athlete. And even the steel he got when it mattered most last night. I mean, he's beating people off the dribble. He's shooting. I mean, he is a hell of a player, man.

Good grief. That steel he had with 30, 25 seconds left him a clock. You could see the way he kind of waits for the right moments. It's like a defensive back. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, it was like a perfect mixture of a calculated risk and just a straight up smart play. I mean, like, he saw it coming. There really wasn't a lot of like risk involved in that interception.

But yeah, the versatility in terms of like how he has some size at 6,6, the way he can defend when he's fully locked in and intense. Like he was like this at Texas Tech too before he transferred. And his younger years at Texas Tech, the dude was an NBA prospect. It's just he's improved every year as an overall score, doing it with greater volume, improving as a shooter as well. With Terrence Shannon, like, this is his fifth year in college, so he's on the older side now, but he's the type of player who's kind of transformed himself into a legitimate first-round caliber

prospect because of that defense with the steel, with the versatility, and then with the offense that you're talking about some of the shots he had from behind the art. Never mind the downhill attacks. Shannon is a versatile explosive score. And I think in an NBA setting where he's not asked to do so much, I can just see his efficiency going up quite a bit too. If they get through Yukon, man, it's got to be because of Terrence Shannon and Coleman Hawkins. Hawkins is nice.

Hawkins has had a big three kind of settle the team down in that second half. I like Hawkins a lot too. He's improved this season quite a bit. Like, he's a three-point shooter. That's kind of a game-changing skill for him, whereas in the past, Hawkins was like a below 30% guy from three, but now he's up to near 40%.

In addition to his passing ability and some of his versatile defense, they get two pros. They don't necessarily have five like Yukon, but they get two. And you can't rule out Illinois, but Yukon just looks like just they're going to steamroll through everybody.

They really do. They look like they are going to steamroll through everybody. Fandul's putting the ball on your court for the rest of NBA season because right now new customers get $200 and bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $200 if your bet wins. Bet on the NBA with a wide range of bet types including quick bets, live same game parlays, player props, futures, and much more. And the weight is over, North Carolina.

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There were two big NBA games last night, both of which had very interesting outcomes. The first of which was the Pelicans who are, you know, where they, are in the standings right now, they have a real legitimate chance at getting up to a home court advantage spot, considering we know the clippers have been no great shakes since the All-Star break. And so you have them beating the bucks. Zion's got 28. They're five right now, but they're only a half a game back from the Clippers. And you watch them. There's an interesting stat from Andrew Lopez. And I guess this is one of those that you could look at. and you go, yeah, of course they are that good when C.J. McCollum has 25 points.

Like, that means they're probably scoring a ton of points if McCollum's got 25 points. But the point is, McCollum being more involved and it has happened where there's, it feels to me, and this was always what I talked about going into the season, it feels more balanced with Ingram out. It just does to me. And that has flushed itself out on the court many times for the Pelicans, right? Unlike many of their peers, their starting lineup numbers are not great. It's certainly not indicative of the team that they are. And so it's a lot of figuring out who, and that's not saying they're better without Ingram.

It's the fit that goes with guys that don't need the ball. And so now you have Trey Murphy over there, and he kind of fills a role. And Herb Jones over here, and he kind of fills a role. And then you've got the stars and the role players. And so Zion kind of does what he does. And then in that case last night, McCollum's got 25, 7, and 7. They're 11 and 0 when C.J. McCollum has 25 points in a game. And every time I see them, Kevin, I cannot help but think,

their ceiling is a very high ceiling, especially if they get this level of zygon. How high are you talking? Do you think the Pelicas have the ingredients to go to the West Finals? NBA Finals, how high? That's what I would say. Yes, you could go to the West Finals if you don't have to face Denver, right? So if you're four or five and you're feeding into Denver,

You can name any team in the Western Conference. I don't like the matchup of Denver, right? But if you somehow dropped, I don't know the way the rest of these games are going to play out. But in this weird way, if you dropped and you were six and you beat three and then you fed into two, that's your path to a West Finals, in my opinion, right? The longer you could stay, your path to a West Finals includes missing Denver. But if you could miss Denver, then yes, I could foresee a circumstance. But it's a very interesting conundrum that they're in because I feel like they have the curse of having so many good players and that are all like at a starter level that mixing and matching it that sometimes Willie Green is forced to be put into a position that is actually more advantageous for you.

because nobody's, you know, benching McCollum or benching Ingram or benching Zion to start games. And yet it is not always the best matchup, especially when everybody's going to be game planning against you. And so to me, I don't think any coach's decisions are going to matter more than Willie Greens. I really don't because I just watch the way that thing is mixed and matched. and how you can massage that roster, I think most of these teams, they know they're seven guys, they know they're eight guys,

they know what they're rocking with, and now we're going to play it out. I think there is combinations that they're going to get to, that they're going to be able to have a lot of success with, that there's going to have to be a lot of ego set aside in order to make it work. I think that's spot on.

You know, in terms of that Willie Green's going to have, you know, maybe not the most, you know, his decisions, like a lot of coaches are going to have that, but one of the most important. I think most people's starting lineup is their most successful thing, so there's no thinking. Sure, and with them, they have like 12 guys that can play. Right. 13 guys that can play. They have a deep roster.

You can even look at something like the game against Oklahoma City earlier in the week, where, you know, O.C's going at Trey Murphy. and Trey Murphy is not a great man-to-man defender by any means, solid, you know, but he sometimes is going to be the fifth best defender on the floor for the Pelicans at times. And he was the guy OKC was attacking, so you can kind of look at that and say, okay, well, this is what's going to be like in a potential second round series between OKC and New Orleans, where you got Chet going after him, Giddy going after him, and trying to explain. him. This is where

you're going to have Willie Green try to make decisions. How do we balance the offense and the defense? What lineups we're going to use out there? I think with the Pelicans, they have all the ingredients of a team that can make a deep run. I felt that way last year.

In terms of like, in theory, this team has so much depth and so much talent and they could go very deep in the playoffs. And now you have Zion playing better than he ever has, losing 25, pounds this year, looking more like the Duke version of himself in terms of explosiveness. Yes, they have the ingredients.

With Willie Green, like, how do you find that balance? How do you find the right lineups in there? Like, what do you pull the lever for like Jordan Hawkins? Right. Like, when do you pull that? So, yeah, I think you're right, Chris. This is what we know. You're going to come out there in the playoffs.

And if I'm the opposing coach, I'm going to go, all right, maybe McCallel will shoot some threes, even though he hasn't shot him at some kind of ridiculous clip. But Herb ain't, if Herb wants to shoot threes, go ahead. Ingram doesn't like shooting threes, doesn't do it at a high volume. Zion doesn't do it. Valachunis does it. Like, you know, like it's almost like the Murphy spacing is so essential. It is important.

Just to have a guy that can shoot it because. At the same time, Herb Jones is like now become a 40% guy from three. I will live with it. It's the Grant Williams thing. I know. If Grant Williams is going to knock down eight threes, then okay. I'm a believer in Herb in all ways. We will find out.

I promise you. Yeah, we will. When you've got to give up something. Yeah. You know what I mean? People are going to say, all right, now doing the playoffs. They'll test them. That's true.

They will test Herb Jones and be like, okay, you're a 40% guy in the regular season. Let's see you do it in the playoffs. And they might get burned and then they'll have to go back to defending him because it does look real. He's also an 85% guy from the free throw line. The dude, I mean, like we talk about Alabama. Alabama, like draft prospects with Mark Sears and, you know, Grant Nelson having the big game. Herb Jones, you and I really liked him out of college. Nobody could have predicted Herb Jones to be a 40% guy for three.

But it is a different deal, Kevin. I mean, you remember last year, everybody was all on Isaac Okoro's nuts about knocking down threes now. Then we get to the playoffs and everybody, like, you know, they're running away from him like he's got SARS. Like, it's a different deal once you get to the playoffs. It is a different deal. It is. And that's where, you know, we're going to find out with Herb Jones. But I am a believer with the improvement we've seen each season.

It's been like step by step. And then this year it feels like it all clicked into place for him. Certainly changes the spacing if he can. Oh, I mean, like Fred Vincent, their shooting coach is one of the best shooting coaches in the entire world. And the work he's done with some of those guys on that team. He did it with Lonzo Ball. He's done it with Herb Jones. he deserves a heck of a lot of credit.

And Chip England, among some others, are outstanding shooting coaches than the NBA right now. Well, and then the weird thing is we've got this, you know, presumptive collision course, which we will see between the Celtics and the Bucks, and both of those were the teams that took losses last night. And so the other outcome was Dejante Murray hitting a game winner against the Boston Celtics last night.

44 shots the most and you know what this feels like a bar question that people actually could have answered correctly if you were going to guess who the last guy that took 44 shots is i think a lot of people would have said westbrook and it was russell westbrook but it's 2016 so it's been a long time i mean that is an extreme amount of shots to take it a game but he ends up with 44 points on the 44 shots and He gets the gay winner. And the subplot is weeks ago, when Trey Young had the hand injury, we talked about how massive this is for evaluation of team. That if you were not committed to the Trey and DeJante as a pairing going forward, that one of two things could happen. you could either have Dejante Murray take a step back and prove that he is, right,

with more responsibility, it did not get better, or now he's going to get the reins and he is going to show you what he can be in the absence of Tray Young, which could either encourage you to want to keep him because he's on that good contract, or you could look at it and say, man, has this guy, we didn't move him at the deadline whenever, when he's taking, you know, all his hawk stuff off of Instagram and everything else. Like everybody, there was all that scuttlebut about him. So you know there is a market, but there's no question in some cases, i.e. say, McKell Bridges, right? The price for McKell Bridges has inevitably gone down dramatically.

You know, the price for Bogdanovich went down. You know, Detroit, sometimes you can sit on a guy and the price goes down. And sometimes you can sit on a guy and the price goes way up. Yesterday's price is not today's price. And I do feel like that is exactly what's happened with Dejante Murray. Whether they want to keep him or move him, his play since the absence of Tray Young. And in fact, just for a point of reference, with Tray Young, he was averaging 21, 5, and 5. and they were winning 42% of their games.

Without Trey Young, DeJante Murray is now at 27, almost six rebounds, nine assists, and they've won 55% of their games. So if we wanted an evaluation period, we have gotten it, Kevin, and it has been all good for DeJante Murray. Isn't that exactly what I said at the time it happened? Now you know, now you get a look at DeJante

and what the Hawks are going to look like. And pretty much the numbers he's putting up right now are exactly what he did the entire season when Trey was off the floor. It is nearly identical with those numbers per 36. When I wrote the article back in January about, you know, the Trey Young stuff, you know, what could happen with him, I looked at the on-off stuff and this is pretty much identical. 26.5 points per game, nine assists to only 2.9 turnovers per game. he's maintained his efficiency. With Trey off the floor during the season, his efficiency was actually better than it was when Trey was on the floor.

So this isn't anything against Trey. It's more about just the fit between Trey and the Jante and how you optimize both those guys. And undoubtedly, they're better off not together. So now for the Hawks, you enter this off season, you know, well, first, obviously you have the plan, then we'll see, you know, when Trey could return and all that type of stuff. but you're the 10 seed, you're not going far.

If you get the 8th seed, you're not getting through Boston in all likelihood over a seven-game series. Then again, you've had a 30-point comeback. You just beat him last night. And Boston continues to have their same end-game problems where they're just dribbling the air out of the ball and taking terrible ISO shots. Did you happen to see Haberstro's thing this morning? You know, he does his big number. Oh, this is the Jalen Brown one. Oh, it was crazy.

I mean, so for those that have not seen it, and I would encourage you, go check out Tom Havistro's video he did that came up this morning. It was about how, and this ties into you and I talking about after watching those two big games on national TV against Denver. And I can't remember what the other one was offhand, but it was like, I was like, man, is he kind of starting to become the alpha guy in these big, big games? and the clutch numbers, his usage in the clutch is 70th in the league, 20.9 for a usage rate, okay? But then, so you could say, well, yeah, like usually these turn into one-on-one battles, and Jason Tatum's their guy, and so he takes a bunch of the shots. And his point is that the drop, he has a 28 usage during the season. the drop from his usage rate from gameplay to crunch time, which is 7.4, is the largest drop in the entire league.

So nobody is used more during the course of the game and then used less when it comes crunch time. And they're 20 and 11 in clutch situations, which is still a winning record, but not obviously as devastating as their usual record, but that so many times he becomes a third and fourth option. And Tom's point is there needs to be a lot more Jalen Brown in this because you can, it's not this year's clutch numbers and it's not last years. It's three years running. He has been the better clutch performer than Tatum. And so I just wonder about this whole evolution.

We have talked about how he's really stepped up. in some of the bigger games and really come to play. And you wonder if that's going to evolve into more crutch time situations where the ball is in Jalen Brown's hands because his point is the stats would tell you that he is the superior option at that point. And yet he becomes a massively reduced option. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I think Jalen probably does deserve more touches down the stretch.

I think more than anything else I worry about the quality of those touches. I mean Boston like I think Bill Simmons tweeted it last night He's like you know Boston plays chess for 45 minutes and then they play checkers for the final three And that is oftentimes the way it feels and like I know Missoula after the game talked about their defensive strategy Switching one through five and you know how they're practicing they want to get that on film which I respect I think that's a very smart thing to do to get those reps and to see how the things look in certain situations, different schemes.

That's very good to do. But offensively, they're doing more of the same. They're doing more of the same where it's just dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, Tatum, ISO, taking a tough shot with three defenders around them. I think that's where the concern about this team comes in, where if you're looking at a Boston versus Milwaukee series, or if they make the NBA finals and it's Boston, Denver,

or whoever it might be, are Tatum and Brown the best guys or the best set up guys in those end game situations? No, they're not the highest efficiency scores in isolation at end of games. Actually, they're pretty average to above average statistically this season. And in recent years, they've been average or even below average in isolation scoring situations at the end of the game. So I think with Tatum and Brown, that still is the remaining lingering. question about this deep team,

this staff team that's going to win 65, 66 games. It's about the best players, Tatum and Brown, and their end game scoring prowess. And I think for them that won't change until they proved in the playoffs. So we got off a little bit on the Celtics thing. I do want to wrap back to the Atlanta thing

because you were at the forefront of the, hey, everybody's talking about moving DeJante. Trey's the guy to move. And then we broached a subject that it really just went by the wayside that Kendrick Perkins, who has a very big platform at ESPN, went on the air and after the trade deadline, and he said, look, everybody just play this out.

Everybody, it's going to be cool because help is on the way. The Lakers are getting a superstar in the offseason. I can't say who it is. And like you and I discuss it. It's like, who the hell? Wait, what? And then it was just kind of like, it went away. But somebody had obviously told him, like, hey, here's the.

the plan. This is what's going to happen to the offseason. And you and I opined like, oh boy, is this going to be a, Trey Young somehow ends up in L.A. because we're trying to figure out like, what's super sorry you talking about? There ain't that many out there that you could even be talking about. That would be obvious choices to be moving elsewhere, especially when you've got one that's on a team that's the sub 500 team. And you were ahead of the game on this because you wrote the article like, hey, if you're going to move one of these guys, this is the thing that you could get the most assets for. And you would even brought up the spurs because their name came up in reference to Desjante Murray.

After seeing this evaluation period with Murray, has your mind changed at all? Do you look at it now and go, well, actually now you could get a boatload for Dejante Murray? Or do you look at it and go, if I'm Atlanta, I'm. I look at it and say, all right, let's put that on the back burner. This guy's on a hell of a contract. We see what he can do in the absence of trade. Let's try to build out around him and get all the assets we can for the trade thing. Which way would you go?

I would go the way of I'm open to trading both these guys. And maybe I end up only trading one of them, but I want to trade at least one. I want to trade the Jante or Trey. I don't want to keep both. I would be open to trading both of them if there's two hard. to come and return. Like, I think DeJante Murray is a really good player. And he's proven that, you know, over the past month without, you know,

Trey being active. And so I think with Dejante, your teams have gotten that extended look. They've seen how he can perform over this period of time. Defensively, he still is not his prime self. But he's still long-armed, maybe in a winning setting. He'd be even better. So I think with Atlanta, you're in a situation now where, if I'm a hawks fan

personally what I want is I want to see both get traded if I were a hawks fan that's the way I'd feel both because they feel stuck in the middle they just feel stuck the team feels stuck and to me that's the worst place

to be as a fan I think if I'm a fan I want to keep Murray I'm not kidding I think he won me over that much yes at that price and at that age so in other words for you, if you're a Hawks fan, you want to trade Trey, you wouldn't want to trade for a draft picks package, you'd want to get another player then, because if you're keeping the Jante, I assume you want to build out. Yes, I think you could build out. Look,

Quinn Snyder didn't take that job to rebuild. What if you trade Trey and Quinn Snyder to the Lakers? I'm not kidding. Come on. Why not? You're a trade a coach? Yeah, if they fire if they fire Darwin Ham, why not make it a package, Tray and Quinn Snyder. I'm sure. I'm not kidding. I'm

dead ass. It's hilarious. The Clippers once gave a first round pick to get Doc Rivers from the Celtics many years ago. So you get the coach and the player? Yeah. Package deal. Doc Rivers was traded

from the Celtics to the Clippers. as a coach 10 years ago. We have not taught coaches trades in a long, long time. No, we haven't. No, we haven't. We haven't. A couple other things that we've got to mention. The West standings.

Oh, my God, this is getting fun. The Warriors are hanging on for dear life because Houston will not stop. You got Tari Eisen, you know, taunting the Warriors with the Instagram video. Warriors come out to play. You know, you got this young team taking shots at them. And Jay Legreen has been like the best player in the league. We're going on like almost a month now. The guy has just been absolutely incredible and consistently incredible.

I told you when we last spoke, you were pretty confident that Houston could keep on doing this. And I said, look, I've seen this happen before where you catch a five. but like, man, every night we go to the arena, we feel like we're going to win. There's a left that you got your chest out. There's a level of confidence. You find a groove. And just like losing can become contagious,

winning can become contagious. And, you know, they were sitting at eight. And we said, oh, but their schedule is going to get a little different, you know, going forward. I know they caught OKC without SGA, which is a break for sure. But it's now 10 in a row. They keep on cracking. And if I'm the warriors, I'm like,

Damn, man, well these guys just stop winning. Like we were so comfortable. We weren't even thinking about this. You and I did a pot about the 10 teams. The 10 teams are set. Yeah, it was done. It was done. And now, freaking Houston has different plans.

I know. Unbelievable. It really is unbelievable. And I think with Houston, they have, this is their schedule. They have four games leading, or three games leading into the Golden State game next Thursday at Utah. versus Dallas at Minnesota. Those are some tough games. Those are some tough games there leading into the Golden State game next Thursday night.

We should do our pod next week after that Warriors Rockets game, actually. Now that we're looking at it, after Warriors Rockets at 5 p.m. Pacific, we can do that. But yeah, Houston, like you said, they caught OKC without SGA. Still an impressive win on the road. some of those shots that Jalen Green hit down the stretch of the game that wild crazy acrobatic

layup the step back street pointer where he was like a hop step back it was just this crazy stepback behind the line on the right wing with defenders draped over him the dude I'm a believer

it's hard to fathom that any I can't remember like a guy that everybody was it's like a guy everybody was down on everybody was like yeah, you know, maybe he took in too much losing and, you know, it's hard for him to fit in or whatever. Like turning into Tracy McGrady on the fly.

What? How did you play 60 games like this or 50 games like this? And then in these last like 20 or 30, looks like one of literally the best players in the league. Yeah, he does. Bananas. If you're a rank in the guys off of just the past month or so, he's been one of the 10 or 15 best players in the league. easily. Because it's not just scoring either. It's good decision

making on offense with the ball on his hands. It's defensive intensity. He's bringing it every night. He's rebounding. It's not just dynamic scoring ability. It's everything else on top of that. It's allowing him to make an impact in every facet of the game. And if you're

a Rockets fan, I'm feeling so good right now about this guy because this is exactly what you envisioned when he was drafted. This is what you thought, oh, best case scenario, you're getting a long look at what this could look like if this sustains. Because it's not just one good week. No, it's not.

You know, Rick, we keeps going like, hey, yeah, that was a cool week, right? He won Western Congress player of the week. Yeah, cool. And it's not just against, you know, some crap teams. It's against some really good teams as well. So with him, they have that Minnesota game. That'll be a great test against the worst. A couple other things that we need to mention.

I saw the Lakers the other night in person. I saw him on Wednesday night. Rui Hachamura. Nobody loves. Rui. Playing against the Memphis Grizzlies more than Hachamara. I will say one thing that got overlooked. And his whole injury got overlooked because it happened the same night as John Morant had his Denver shotgun

Willie's night. But Brandon Clark was back on the court for the first time in like 13 months. months because last year he had torn his Achilles in that Denver game. And then that happened. And it just like overshadowed everything that took place with Brandon Clark. But it was cool to see a guy that had gone through a massive amounts of rehab to get back out on the court, get back on the court. Watching the Lakers and talking to some Lakers people there, I got the sense that they desperately, I think their immediate goals and what they're looking at every day. They want to flip the standings on Phoenix.

They want to get, because they want to get to 8-7 win that to stay away from Denver. That was the sense I got talking to them. And like they're looking at it. And, you know, there's been these reports like Phoenix has one of the hardest schedules you could ever have. I think somebody wrote that it was like the hardest end game stretch ever. something like that in terms of like team win percentages. And so they look at it and they go, all right, we can flip the standings on this Phoenix thing and get them to drop down A, so we don't have to play two games.

But more importantly, so we've got to get to seven because we think Denver is going to stay at one. And the last thing on earth we want to do is play Denver in the first round. And so it's going to be interesting to see if they can pull that off. But they had that win against Milwaukee. But AD plays like 52 minutes. All their starters play a ton. LeBron did not.

The next night when I saw them, LeBron played. LeBron was great. Had a triple double in the game. And you could just tell they had a real focus. Like unlike other regular season games that I have watched them in, that he came out very focused. I thought that team came out very, very focused and much more attuned to detail than normally would be.

I just, it's a reason that I have not outside of Denver, also given a hope that the Lakers could make a run either and that I still have that proper respect for them is because you watch them, LeBron doesn't guard anybody. Like, truly doesn't guard anybody. He just stands in the light. And I know when it gets to the playoffs, not only do you add a defender, you add like one of the best defenders because he doesn't. And I get it.

He's got 70,000 minutes or whatever he said on the tires. And so he's not going to be, have this ratcheted up defensive intensity. But you know that when they get to the playoffs, he will. And that makes you a radically different team, especially when you've got 80. on the other end. So whatever wing you've got, guard, you want, you know, LeBron's going to have a different level of defensive effort. He'll play in stretches, you know what I mean?

Like, but it'll be, it'll be short-bursts. Well, that's what he did during the in-season tournament. We saw in the in-season tournament. He ratcheted it up. Yeah, exactly. Like, he was, he was pivotal to the Lakers defense. They sent two guys at Tyrese Halliburton. They pressured with Cam Reddish on ball.

and then 80 and pick and roll, sent two at him. And then LeBron was that low man. He was the guy responsible for Miles Turner on the rolls to the basket. And LeBron was awesome. Flying around and tense, setting a tone. LeBron was great in those games. So if LeBron can turn that, you know, if he can click that button on in the playoffs, turn on defense, and he will.

That improves the Lakers defense overall. But, you know, they're 16 and 7. One of the best net ratings in basketball since they moved Ruri Hatchel. to the starting lineup. They look like a more complete team. You know, I think it's too bad for them. Oh, trust me.

When I talk to their people, they're like, bro, we have bitched at him all season about Tareem Prince. Like, what are we doing? They made the West finals last year. I know.

It's crazy. It was sitting right there the whole time. It's like, he just, too much thinking. One of my favorite little, you know, notes on the Lakers this year was like,

Tori and Prince was giving a night off for personal reasons earlier this season, and it was his birthday. He's just trying to find O-Way. Yeah, I know, it was just funny. I don't know. Maybe there was like a personal health matter or something like that that we don't know about, but it's just funny. It's just funny. He's out for personal reasons. Then, like, Lakers' Twitter was like, wait a minute, it's his birthday.

Just the sense I got from talking to their people was, imagine if we didn't waste all this time on the Tarame Prince Cambradish bullshit. And we would have just played our guys. Yeah, I know. I know. I mean, like, the fact, like, just look how close the standings are, right? I know. Like, they are only, only four and a half back from the four seat, the clippers.

Like, it's like, it's very tight in the Western Conference standings where those decisions that you're talking about in November and December and January, they all add up to have you in a position right now where you're, the nine seed. And so for them, you know, you're right for in terms of seeding. If Denver does get the one seed, yes, you'd like to avoid Denver in the first round, but also you'd rather win one game instead of two games. No question. To get in as well. So, and look, there's not a lot of time left at all. I think it's highly unlikely that they could surpass the kings and the sun. And then the Mavericks were to fall. The Mavericks are playing really well right now as well. I don't see any of the teams falling that far. But you never know.

You never know. You never know. And so the Lakers, they look like a team that's locked in right now. They've found the right lineups. You know, they're playing. AD has been absolutely outstanding on both ends of the floor. Defensively, he should be mentioned more often as a defensive player of the year candidate. Like we so often fixate on Rudy and Victor.

I agree. Ady to me is the other guy. that he's clearly in the top three in my opinion. It's just a matter of how you slot those guys. 80 has been absolutely stellar. I agree. Because he moves the best of the three as well. Now, when he,

when he am a can move very well, he doesn't have to. How many blocks does he have where he does not leave his feet? I've never seen anything like it in my life. It's crazy. Speaking of big guys, Finally, some mega positive news on the M.Bed front. And that's just the fact that he's on the plane and he's on the trip, which makes it sound like, you know, he could very well get some regular season ramp up before they get into the playoffs, play in, whatever situation they're going to be in.

Obviously, the situation not as good as it could have been because, as Kelly Ubre said, refs are bitches. What a moment, dude. That was hilarious. But Joe L&B, this is like legitimately, I think, reason for hope that you could get it back out there. And maybe it's not like, hey, welcome back to the lineup. Now you're on a minute's restriction and we're in the middle of the playoffs. More like, hey, we've got a little chance at a ramp up here before we're going to play whoever. Just to make sure that you can get over the mental hurdle that it is to come back from some kind of

procedure, whatever he had done. The fact that he's on the trip, I think you got to look at that as a massive, massive positive, which gives me much more hope that we are going to get to see this guy back out on the court and maybe in plenty of time for the playoffs. So the Sixers on their schedule right now, Friday night, they face the calves, and then Sunday they face the Raptors. The date the Sixers have circled as the potential Embed return date is Tuesday at home in Philadelphia against the thunder.

So that's the date to look at, potentially for Joel Labide to return Tuesday in Philadelphia against the thunder. So that's coming soon that give him, you know, another road trip. He'd get to play at Miami, at Memphis, at San Antonio, and then a homestand to end the season versus Detroit, Orlando, and Brooklyn. So he'd get seven games to ramp up for the post season. If it is that OKC next Tuesday date, he'd have seven games to get ready for the post season. and that's what it seems like things are pointing towards right now. That's a pretty good chunk of games. Two weeks to get ready for the playoffs and maybe get your way out of the plan.

And if you are in the plan, then it's eight games to prepare for the postseason. Pretty good. Yep. Yeah, that's good. But better than just two, three games, like potentially it could have been. Yep. Last thing before we get out of here is there was a massive Minnesota ownership news. I will encourage you go check out Bill's podcast.

He did the beginning of his podcast this morning on that. entire situation and laid it all out in a way that only someone infinitely more wealthy than me and Kevin O'Connor could. Because Bill knows. That was it a solo this morning that he? Yeah, yeah. Just the beginning of his pod is about the Minnesota deal, which you got to check out. It's really good.

And look, I'm going to let you listen to that for the breakdown. Here's what I'm going to say. This is the best season that you've had in whatever, 20, 30 years, right, in Minnesota. Don't let this put a damper on that. It is such BS to have this as a distraction and the future of the franchise and are these guys going to be the owners now? They're not going to be the owners.

Like, the best advice I could give is just soak the whole thing up and this season because it sucks. It sucks as a fan. And I know that there was a sentiment like, they don't like Glenn Taylor. They're like, we're finally getting out from under his thumb.

we could finally get KG back in the fold, who was all of our favorite player. We could raise his jersey in the banner. The whole thing is just no good. And then you find out like, oh, not only is he going to keep owning the team now, who knows what the future is on that. And I would just focus on the fact that this is, you don't get these seasons all that often. And he's still got a chance at like the number one seed. You got a chance to have the best team that you've had,

maybe ever and I hate that that the timing of it all with the team that's been so successful this year and then you're like ah shit and I hope no you know pita ladies staple their heads to the ground during your playoff games because Glenn Taylor still owns the team but nevertheless just try to ignore it and enjoy your season and I would encourage anybody to go check out what Bill had to say about it because it is just an insane sports business story to say the least i'll have to listen to bill's pod of my morning walk after we record this podcast uh look forward to that i didn't know that was the that was his pod this morning yeah he just did it as a beginning of the pod okay cool try to explain i look forward to that but um yeah i think for minnesota fans you're right on you got to just

enjoy the team of the course the best best you can like you're gonna enjoy the entourage pivots you know back and forth, you know, into a fade jumper. The dude is, you know, unbelievable. You're going to enjoy the league best defense, led by Rudy Gobert. You got to enjoy the encore product. You have to. You were talking about the pivots.

Did you see that video that was going around about his, he's doing the slow Euro every time he gets on a breakaway in this one guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he said he stole it from Luca Garza. Yeah, I know. Pretty good. I know. It's awesome.

He is so likable. It's ridiculous. I love him. I love him. Everybody does. And with Minnesota, it's true. Like, I have a little group chat with the two Wolves fans in my life. And they were, like, going crazy, very annoyed and frustrated.

Who's the other one besides Gobert? Is you, Gobert and who? No, Rudy. Not a group chat with Rudy. Oh. I just, yeah, just text Rudy. He said that television's great after every game. I know you do.

All right. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Little As always, Kevin, I'll talk to you next week. Have a good weekend. Must be 21 plus in present in select states. Fandall is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with the Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem?

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