The Mismatch - The Clippers’ Future Is Uncertain After Kawhi Leonard Undergoes Surgery to Repair a Partial ACL Tear. Plus: Team USA Struggles and the 76ers Make Ben Simmons Available.

Episode Date: July 14, 2021

Chris and Kevin kick off the episode talking about Kawhi Leonard’s recently reported ACL repair surgery and what that means for him and for the Clippers’ next season (0:40). They talk a little bit about what they’ve taken away from the first three games of the NBA Finals and what they expect from Game 4 (20:28). Then they hit on Team USA’s losses in the exhibition games prior to the Olympics (37:23), the 76ers opening up trade talks for Ben Simmons (49:02), and some of Kevin’s draft thoughts from the past couple of weeks (55:30). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What If The Len Bias story is about University of Maryland Phenom, who was the second pick of the 1986 draft who went to the Celtics and just two days later had one of the most tragic and shocking deaths in sports history. The podcast investigates how Bias' death changed the trajectory of NBA history, sparked America's cocaine panic, and made a lasting impact on the world of sports and far beyond. Check out What If the Lenn Bias story on the Book of Basketball 2.0 feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. and join me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Pomber, Kevin O'Climber, A.Kee-A. Kevin O'Climber, A.K.K.A. Kevin O'Keeleon. What's going on, buddy? Well, as we were recording this on a Tuesday night, a little extra lag time in the NBA finals

with them having an extra day off, little did we know that there would be news break on a Tuesday night. And it was big news because one of the superstars of the game, Kauai Leonard, had an injury that kept him out of the playoffs. All of the details about his injury were rather murky. We, in fact, goofed about it a few weeks ago. And then it comes out tonight that he had a partial tear of his ACL that required surgery and that he has already underwent surgery for the partially torn ACL, which is a very long recovery, Kevin.

So we got a lot to sift through with this. When you saw that news come across, what was your first reaction? If a ACL injury recovery is about nine months, that would place his return about April 2022, which would be the start of the NBA playoffs. So if Kauai resigns with the Clippers or if he goes somewhere else, his return might not be until the start of the postseason. and if the Clippers do get Kauai Leonard back, I would think on something either a one-on-one,

maybe he opts out of his player option for next season then signs a one plus one. That way he could become a free agent again in 2022 if he wanted to or opt-in again. But if he were to do that, it's going to be a situation where the Clippers are going to have a full season without Kauai Leonard. There's no guarantee they would even make the playoffs.

They might be in the play-in. So, I mean, it's insane. The ripple effects here for the Clippers in the short term and the long term because who knows what's Kauai's going to do. Who knows when he'll be back. And we know with him, Chris, he's going to be super, super conservative with his comeback. He very well might just miss the entire season knowing his history with injuries. Well, especially because he'll be 31 years old, right?

31 years old with a history of injuries. And I think maybe dependent upon, and I know this isn't the fun way to talk about this, but dependent upon how. much of the bag gets secured, as they say, because Kauai Leonard has a very interesting situation leading into this off season. He can become a free agent if he declines his $36 million option. He can resign with the Clippers for four years for $175 million. Or he could also, as you mentioned, signed a one-year deal, and then next year, he would be eligible for a $246 million contract. And that's because he's only been with the Clippers for two years, so they don't have his bird rights

right now. One more season would give them his bird rights, which would allow them to sign him to a five-year max contract, which is why the big differential and the finances there. Yeah. And so if you are the Clippers and you, look, 31, we're why? watching a 36-year-old at times be the best player in the NBA finals. So it's not out of the realm of possibility that we get still top five, top 10 player, Kauai, but we don't know. We don't know. We don't know.

And he has not been able to make it through. You know, that was, it was a tough go during the Toronto run, right? and then obviously it ended horribly in the very weird season. And we have to remember, Kev. So he was all the way injured in San Antonio. He took all kinds of games off when he was in Toronto. And then it was a rough go during the playoffs. Then he goes to the Clippers, takes a ton of rest, tons of rest,

and has a monster break before they go play in the bubble, right? which is not available in any other regular season. And then this year obviously didn't make it all the way through. And so you're going on, you know, not a great track record of the most recent three, four years of feeling like this is a guy that's going to be able to play. If I'm spending $246 million, I'm hopeful that a guy can play 70 games for me and be available for the playoffs. you don't know what you're going to get from him moving forward. And for the Clippers, like, you have an opportunity to bring Kauai Leonard back long term. You bring Kauai Leonard back long term.

Yes. Regardless of any questions, regardless of whether he goes to your doctors, regardless of whether he shows you his medical records, you're taking a chance on Kauai Leonard. With that said, though, Chris, for the Clippers, you want to bring Kauai back. You want to bring him back long term. This will now be year three of the Kauai Lennard. Leonard Paul George experiment. Year one, the team was fraudulent. Year two, they get hurt. Year three, you have your best player out for possibly all of the regular season. You might not even make the postseason because now you get the Warriors that are going to be

reloaded. The Lakers that are going to get better. There's a report earlier today from Shams Sharmeshauny, I believe that they're more willing to have 80 at the five and LeBron at the four more often, which could unlock a heck of a lot for that team on the offensive end of the floor. The Lakers are going to be better. It seems like the Nuggets. They'll get Jamal Murray back sooner than the Clippers would get Kauai Leonard back. I mean, the Pelicans should get better. These younger teams, the Maverick should get better.

The Clippers could be in the playing conversation, just like the Lakers were this season. They might not even be for like a seven or eight seed for the plan. So I don't know, Chris. It's a scary time right now for the Clippers with so much uncertainty here. You got to bring Kauai back. but it's a wasted season in all likelihood. Unless he comes back and he's 100% right away for the playoffs, you might not make the playoffs.

This sucks, man. It's hard to believe if you pay him the contract. If he's on the books for $36 million next year, I mean, how? I mean, how are you putting together a roster that is going to be able to compete within a West, which, as you mentioned, and there's going to be other teams that did make it theoretically.

Look, the Pelicans should be better than they were this. There are teams that didn't make it that should also improve this year. And we talked about, you know, during those playoffs, I remember mentioning to you, it's pretty incredible what they're doing and they should be proud of what they're doing with Paul George as their best guy. No doubt. If you lined it up and you said, all right, that team is going to play 82 games, how many games are they winning? I mean, I said there would be an argument as to whether or not they would be a playoff. team. And that's with, and that's with amazing Reggie Jackson. Yeah, you said that at the time.

Yeah. I remember that. And so now, I mean, I mean, I guess you'll have Ibaka, right? But I mean, but you're probably losing Reggie Jackson. Yeah, the version of Sergei Baca that you had towards the end of the season when he's hurt, not looking the same. That was not a great surge of Baca, right? So you got Ibaka, who's a free agent. You get Nicholas Batum, who is very important this season who's a free agent. Reggie Jackson's a free agent. Ibaka with the player, option. We'll see what happens with him, but it's not just with Kauai Leonard here that there's uncertainty. It's with these other guys, Batum and Jackson specifically who were very important contributors to this team. For the clippers here, you know, assuming you get Kauai Leonard back,

assuming you get him back, whether it's a one-on-one, whether he just opts into the player option, whether he signs long term with a four-year max, regardless of whatever way you get Kawhi-Lenard back, to me, you still need to build with championships and mind. And the guy, that I'm going after in this scenario is still, I want Kauai recruiting Kyle Lauri. I want to try to work out a sign and trade for somebody like Kim with Patrick Beverly and with Luke Kinnard salaries, which could work to get Laueri. That way, that way you could set yourself up. If you had Lari or somebody like Lurie and Paul George throughout the regular season,

you can compete enough to at least get the play in or maybe one of the top six slots. And if you do that and then you get Kauai Lennard back in April for the first round of the playoffs, man, like you'd be loaded with a fresh Kauai Leonard, fully rehabbed, ready to go. That could be the formula. Like, that could be the way it sets up. So is that opportunity even going to be there, though, to get a Lowry? There's not a lot of other options on the market. And that would also have to be a sign and trade, which brings up other complications.

So I don't know what the options are, but you got to do everything possible to get somebody else who helps you win now. because if you can get into the playoffs, who knows what can happen if you're getting Kauai Leonard back then. I think this makes, this is an odd angle, but wouldn't you agree that in the case, because we can never know what the guy's thinking, in the case that he thought, you know, I did it here for a couple of years, who knows what's going to happen with Paul George, we've changed the coach, I know the owner, like, this isn't what I thought it was going to be. I know I just got the house, but I can live in the house in the off season.

You're right? I mean, we're traveling around. We're bouncing around throughout the season anyway. And I'll live there once my career is over. I'm just saying we never know with what he's thinking. But if he was thinking, I might go elsewhere. Or I'm at least going to entertain the idea of going elsewhere. I feel like that is now marginalized in a lot.

marginalized in a way that I just, I think this is the, in this bizarre way, the best chance to ensure he's a clipper. You know what I'm saying? It's like because of this injury, I think their chance of keeping him, signing him up, because if you're, because they would know the situation better than other people. Maybe. Maybe. I mean, you would hope as good as you can, right? As good as you can.

They've rolled out the red carpet for the guy. They've dealt with him, Uncle Dennis, the crew. They know what they've got with him, right? And that if they go and they, I think they would be the most likely to be totally willing to sign him up to the long-term deal and throw the money. They're the clippers, right? We just saw the nets do that with Kevin Duranto coming off an Achilles injury. That's true. It could be Miami that's like, well, wait a year for you.

or Dallas is like, oh, Lucas Young, we can wait. But we knew Kevin wanted out. We didn't, you know what I'm saying? Yep, we did. Like, he didn't buy a $20 million house in Oakland. You know what I'm saying? I think he did have, I don't know if like him and Rich climbing. I think he was already renting a place in New York.

It might have been renting in the Bay Area, too. I'm not sure he bought there. But either way, either way. I think he already had a place in New York halfway through, after Draymond cussed him out. Yeah, I mean, a lot of rich, wealthy. athletes, rich wealthy people, period, own multiple homes across the country. We just knew the way that one was going, though, in a way that we've never had any reason

to believe that Kauai Lenter wants to be elsewhere. And so the question is, does he do the $36 million and then try to get the $200 million next year? Or do the clippers just say, hey, we'll give you the, what is the number? I said, $176 million for the next $1,000? four years. We'll give that to you right now. Which he could do. He might say, you know what, even though the return rate for torn ACLs is high, I'm past the wrong side of 30. I know the extent of my knee issues and potential problems down the line. I'm just going to sign long term

now and take the money while I'll have an opportunity. He very well could do that. He very well could, but he also could go the other side here, Chris. He could do the one-on-one, then just not play the entire year and still demand the five-year contract the year after that. Which is, as we mentioned earlier, I mean, it is, I mean, it's 70 million difference. It's 70 million. It's different. Big money. I mean, are you giving him $246 million?

He's Kauai Leonard. Like, the clippers are all in. They traded all their draftics. What are they going to do? Just trade Paul George. I know. I mean, I just don't know. I just don't know.

Oh, this has been a disaster. It sucks, man. We've got to admit that it is, I mean, this is just never what you would have thought. When they added him, we were at Summer League, no less. When that story broke, and I remember waking up in the morning and seeing all these texts, and I was like, wait, what? And it was that Kauai Letterd and Paul George were both going to the Clippers. and it was, it was like they're going to be competing with the Lakers.

They're going to, they got their guys now. And this is going to be, this is going to be a team that's going to be in the Western Conference finals for what, for how many years in a row? And haven't even seen him play once in two years. No. It's disappointing. Yeah. It's disappointing.

It's crazy. The way, the way this stuff plays out. And I, who knows how he comes back from the ACL. But, I mean, he has. has been, it's not just the ACL to me. He's had the quad issues. He's had a whole bunch of lower body issues. I think, Kevin, did it say when he got the surgery?

I don't believe the report did say when he got the surgery. So we don't even, I mean, timeline wise, he last played in a game a long time ago, right? Like when we talked about this when it first happened and I expressed my dismay at the fact that there was no reporting on this clipper wise, you know, there's typically. injury, diagnosis, rehab, plan of attack, surgery, whatever you're going to do, recovery time. You know, and then they say we expect him to make a full recovery and typical amount of time out is, or he's going to be out indefinitely, whatever they say. I bet they call it indefinitely in this case with quiet. By the way, last game he played was June 14th.

So when everybody hears his podcast on Wednesday, that'll be one month since we still last like a while in her play. Yeah. And he could have gotten surgery in any of those days. in the last one. Regardless. The realistic timeline, April. Realistically. One thing I did think about, and I know you've done a lot of reporting on entries in the past, but this is one I don't know.

It was interesting. It was reported as a partial tear of the ACL instead of a torn ACL. Like they put in the word partial, but does that make any difference? Do you know? It doesn't usually for the surgery. usually for the surgery, a full reconstruction is still necessary, just like or completely torn ACL. So the injury time in all likelihood, no guarantees, but in all likelihood would be the same for Kauai Leonard. And I don't really understand the whole throwing in the partial.

I guess it makes it sound better. I mean, oh, we didn't totally tear it. He partially tore it. Well, I mean, that's just what the injury is. Like Spencer did when he had it partially torn ACL back in December and had to have the full surgery. But, I mean, it sucks. We never saw him play. This is all.

Yeah, we didn't. You're right. This sucks. I mean, it can take a year. ACLs, I mean. It's not irrational. Nine is quick. Nine months is like you've pushed it.

You've made a full recovery. And now in this day and age, you ain't messing around with that. I would be absolutely stunned if you saw Kaua Lenter back on a court in nine months. No way. No. way. I mean, that's the best thing. I mean, you're going to risk it?

You could first round, second round of the playoffs. That's going to be the conversation next year. When is Kauai going to return? Are the clippers going to be able to make the playoffs? Are they going to be in the play? That's what it's going to be. That's what it's likely going to be if they get Kauai back, which we'll find out. I'm sure.

I'm sure he'll feel a tremendous amount of pressure. He won't even go to any of their games next year. He's going to be at home next year. Well, he'll be in San Diego probably most of the year. Yeah. I would imagine. And then we'll see him and he shows up at a game, looking like Ken Griffey Jr. did at the home run derby last night.

He'll be like, Kauai has just been hanging out of his house for nine months. It's too bad, man. It sucks. It sucks. But now the clippers are in quite the precarious situation. And they are not a team, Sanse Kauai, that people will be just jotting into the playoffs unless they do,

like you said, and go get a Kyle Lowry, go get some stuff that makes, that persuades you to believe that they could be one of the top eight teams in the West. And I'm not talking like top 10, one of the top eight teams in the West

that would at least have pole position regarding playing for a play in. My God. I mean, that's a big superstar. There's a, I mean, he's one of the biggest. On the inverse, this is, you know,

you know, I don't ever want to see people get hurt, but this is good news for, the grizzlies of the world, the pelicans of the world, you know, even like teams like the, the spurs who still might be competitive trying to get an opportunity either with a top seed with a playoff lock or a spot in the playing tournament, any team that like even the Nuggets, if the Nuggets were to struggle without Jamal Murray to start the season for whatever reason, even though they finish strong. I mean, all of those teams now with the Clippers, there's one less formidable threat that could get a top four seed in the Western Conference. So they're

knocked down a peg which helps everybody else out in the West. I mean, this it's just, it's too bad. It's unfortunate. They need Terrence man to be the next Coi Leonard. They need Reggie Jackson to keep averaging 20 points per game. Except now he'll probably be making like $17 million.

Oh. What a rough spot, dude. I don't know how the cookers get out of this. I don't know how they build up and become a championship team aside from like Kauai recruiting a Lowry or another guy to come there in a sign and trade. That's But that's the path to adding talent and making this season not a lost one. Well, that sucks because we've lost a lot of guys.

I mean, we just had a whole season. I mean, clearly the Murray injury in the middle was awful. Did not see Clay Thompson play basketball at all this past year. You know, had a lost Curry season the year before. I mean, lost Durant season, of course. Yes, lost the Durant season. And so hopefully he could make a full. recovery and we still get to see some great Kauai Leonard years.

This NBA finals, which now, by the time people listen to this, you'll be listening on Wednesday as we're recording on Tuesday night, and game four will be tonight. I think it is very, very easy to always just get caught up in the moment. The immediacy of it all, what we just saw is what affects us the most. opinion-wise. But I found it interesting what I looked at, I don't know if you've looked at the three-game stats on this. It's wild because we've had a couple of, you know, they've been double-digit margins. These games have not gone down to anywhere close to the last shot. And yet almost all across the board, it is dead even. The bucks are averaging 111 points.

Suns are averaging 112. Bucks are rebounding a little better. Assist basically the same. Steels basically the same. Bucks have a few more blocks. Turnovers, roughly the same. Field goal percentage, very close. Three point percentage, identical.

And then free throw percentage, obviously the bucks are much worse than the sons. But it's odd that after three games, and then you have the one guy who's been amazing in Chris Paul. 57% from the field, 50% from three, averaging 25 and 9. But then you've got Booker, who's averaging 38%, 33% from three. Same thing on the other side. Janus, 63% from the field, 22% from three, which is actually good for him, averaging 34, 14, and 5. And then you've got Middleton, 41%, Holiday, 39%. And then both of them are mid-30s on threes.

And so it's fascinating. You've got one guy that's having these, what would be like historically great NBA finals performances, Janice and Chris Paul, and they are nowhere close in age. And it's a matter of we talked. The last time we spoke was after game two. And it was like, yeah, Janus was amazing,

but Holiday Middleton stunk. well now it was like Chris Paul's still really good he's got these big numbers but it wasn't a good dev of Booker game and so and but on the flip side holiday was really good and Middleton was really good

and they're both so good at home it just feels like you know while the margins it's weird the margins of these games are not indicative of a club series and yet I feel more confident than ever

that we're going to see games I think we're going to see a game seven I really do wouldn't shock me one bit at least we're going to see game six yeah wouldn't shock me one bit if we don't if we see a game seven

here and I mean I look forward to seeing how the suns respond here like what is the defensive adjustment you make you know non eight minutes are going to be a problem we've discussed that. I talked about that with Bill Simmons on his podcast on Sunday night,

but if you're the Sons here, do you want to do what the Bucks did to disturb their offense? The Bucks put more pressure on the Sons, started pressuring Chris Paul a bit more past the half court line. Do you want to do the inverse of that and do the same to Chris Middleton and Drew Holiday or Jeff Teague if he's getting minutes out there? Could that be something the Sons could do here?

Try to ramp up the pressure a little bit, get them out of their rhythm? I listen to you with Bill. and what I would say is, I'm more on the side when you presented. Janus is going to do what Janus is going to do. You know, like, you don't have a great answer. And it feels like anything that you would go to, anything that you would go to would then enable those other guys

to have games that they would not normally have unless that extra attention that is required for Janus is paid. Now all of a sudden you've got a real problem on your hands because you're not stymying him completely, but the other guys are, now they're cracking. The big thing is keeping Aiton on the floor. And, you know, I heard you mentioned this. And this was, there was a couple Monty Williams things that were surprising. you know how much we think of the job Monty Williams is done and respect we have for him.

But there were two things that were very perplexing, I thought, in game three with the way it played out. Number one, the Aiton sitting on the bench stuff, to me, it's just the wrong play. I know, and there's been all kinds of studies done about this. coaches always want guys to be there when the game is going to be decided. But many times you will watch them hold a guy out and the game gets completely away. And that's what happened to him. Once he got that foul at the beginning of that third quarter, which was a reaction play, there's a couple of things.

Aitin's got to be better on these. Because I don't mind if you're going to get these fouls. you are stopping them from scoring. His first two fouls were not shooting fouls. And that fourth one, which was the killer one that gets you pulled out of the game, that one was Paul got it ripped by Middleton and he grabbed Janice, just like a reaction play. And so that can't be the fouls.

That can't be why you're in foul trouble. I need your fouls to just be shooting fouls. If you're stopping Janus from making a layup, okay. But like three of those fouls weren't shooting fouls. But Monty put him on the bench. And that's fine. You've got him for the end of the game. But now at the end of the game doesn't even matter

because you've gotten runoff so badly that it's not a game. And so and how many, and he didn't file out, by the way. He never fouled out of that game. And so coaches do this. I know it's the way it is. There's just like a standard. It's like you look at a chart. If you get two in the first quarter, three before halftime, four early in the third quarter.

But they have got to find a way to keep him on the court. And he's got to find a way to keep himself on the court. The other thing is, this now puts a massive spotlight on the Booker thing. He benched him. I tried to listen to him talk about this and why he wasn't back out there. and I don't know, I guess we're going to see how Booker responds to it, right? Because that was the last 13 minutes of the game, something like that, 1248, I think it was. And we didn't see Booker at all.

And so, you know, I know there's the line of thinking of, hey, let him go out there. Maybe he catches a heater in the fourth quarter and it can carry over to the next game, give him some confidence. or, you know, what was that? And what happens with Booker? I know he said, I don't even want to... I think Cassie Hubbard, I ask him, what do you say to Devin? He's like, I don't want to say anything to him.

I don't want to get in his head. He's going to be fine. And that was it. You know, and so those two things are super surprising. The leaving Aiton on the bench, they cannot afford to do it. Just let him foul out if he's going to foul out. go down, swing it.

And the Booker being on the bench for that fourth quarter, those now gave me a little cause for pause that I've never had before. What about you? Well, I mean, with Booker also, the production, it just hasn't been there. You know, ever since the nose injury, he's had some great moments, some great games, but also a lot of low efficiency games where he struggled from the floor. And naturally, in this series, he's getting hounded, whether it's by Drew Holiday or, PJ Tucker. He's going oftentimes against very, very difficult offensive players, you know.

So for him, it's challenging because of who he's going against. Never mind what's going on with his face and any pain he's feeling throughout the game. Any pain that he's feeling when he wakes up in the morning. Like it might not be contact in a game that's bothering him. It might just be waking up, right? Like you went through that. Like what's it like in the morning when you wake up? Do you have like a headache? You know, like a sinus headache in the morning? Is that what it feels like? The whole experience is awful. And they said they broke it in. three places. And look, there's reasons and excuses, and I've been, I've been giving this as a reason since

he did it. He, in six of the 12 games prior to it, he had 30 plus. He's had two in seven games since he did it. And you can say, well, the finals and it's all ratcheted up or whatever. I saw Devin Bueger. Devin Bueger could score against anybody, right? Like, he has not been right. He hasn't been right.

And it's not to say that he can't be because he had the one crazy game where he had seven to 12 threes and everything was going his way. But you watched him the other night. I mean, we saw enough throughout the first part of the playoffs to know that he can play at this level. And he in no way strikes me as a guy that shrinks in the moment or is scared of it. I mean, I think if Monty would have played him in the fourth, he would have gone out there and he just shot eight more times. He might have missed them all, but he would have done it. He's going to go down swinging. He's wired that kind of way.

But there's no question. He has really, really struggled. I mean, for the series, he's shooting 38% from the field, which is, I mean, and that includes a monster game two, you know? So that tells you how bad games one and three had to be for him. And they need maybe these extra days off, the longer the series goes. maybe these extra days off help him. For sure.

For sure. I mean, I think the other side of it here is the other guard on the buck side, Chris Middleton. They won that game three despite Chris Middleton, only six of 14 from the floor. He was five of 16 in game two. Game one, 12 of 26 for 29 points. Good numbers for him in the finals. But Chris Milton always has one of those games where he's like 15 of 25, 14 of 20.

He's going to have one of those. When is it going to happen? Could it be this game for here, at home for the Bucks? That's going to be tough for Phoenix. That game will come at some point. And we saw, I mentioned the idea of pressuring, maybe, you know, past the half court line sometimes if you're Phoenix, maybe you experiment with that. We did see them use a little bit more pressure than they usually do in the first half.

They started pressuring, blitzing Chris Middleton pick and rolls, turning him into a playmaker. And the Bucks did well in that situation. that was off of picking rolls that they did that. I just want, I mean, I wonder if we'll see Monty Williams ramp it up even more because it's not like, if you pressure Chris Paul, it's Chris Paul. Like Chris Paul could dribble the ball up the floor comfortably, still gets you into your offense. No problem. Oh, Chris Middleton, Drew Holiday, Jeff Teague, that's a different story there.

So I wonder what Phoenix will do, if anything. I wonder if there will be even be any dramatic changes here. I'm not sure there needs to be an overreaction, but I do think switching it up would make some sense in the same way that we've seen the Bucks change up their defense. They're doing different things with different lineups, different personnel. They're not just switching everything. They're not just dropping everything.

Sometimes they're switching. Sometimes they're doing a late drop switch. Sometimes they're just dropping, period, and not doing a switch. So they're always doing something different on the floor. Maybe we start to see the Sons install that uncertainty for the Bucks with how they're defending them. I mean, I think they have to try something subtle, but not dramatic. Yeah. And they, and then I think

if you're the sons, you sit there and you go, hopefully we get Booker going. And hopefully we could keep baiting on the floor. And simple stuff, it's true. And there's some of these extremes that are taking place like Crowder hit a bunch of threes in one of the games and like,

but I mean, McKill Bridges had what, 25? And then he turned around and had two. Yeah, four points on two or four shooting. That's another thing. You're going to get Bridges, some open shots. But that also, I mean, like, it's hard to look at numbers and understand this. But, like, just watching the games, I felt like the Bucks did a better job making passes

tough for the Sons. I saw a lot of tougher catches for Bridges and Johnson. Even though Croster was six for seven, he was on fire. A lot of those shots were off of tough catches. And I think that's a credit to the Bucks and their defense and closing those gaps for those passing. And so can they continue to do that? Is there something the Sons can do to take advantage of that pressure?

Maybe with some more back cuts, some design plays, get going towards the basket, because that's what the Sons do. They move around the court, they cut, you know, they set screens off ball, quick decisions, 0.5 offense as Monty Williams calls it. So maybe we see them lean more into that in a more prepared way in game four. But no guarantees. The Bucks have a lot of good defensive players and they're locked in. And I love Jay Crotter, but I promise you the Bucks will sign up for as many

Jay Crowder 3s is they're willing to shoot. You know what I mean? Like of the possible outcomes of a possession, it's like fine, shoot it. Because he will go, he'll hit six or seven, but like the next game he'll go one for eight. We saw it with the heat last year. Up and down, up and down. This whole career, that's what it's always been, up and down. Yes.

And I'm mega fascinated with this series now. And the whole Yonest thing with the 40 and 10 back to back. I mean, these historic numbers that he is putting up. And you can watch as much tape as you want. You could try to concoct any kind of defense. Like the truth is, if he's going downhill and he has said, I'm trying to get downhill. If he's going downhill, good luck.

I mean, he's just, he's that special. And, I mean, what you got to hope is he goes nine for 17 from the free throw line. Instead of 13 for 17. Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? You try to keep him off the line, you know, at least some by making him miss something in the restricted area, which in the last two games I read Kevin from six feet in. I want to get this right. He is 23 of 25, 92 percent.

Ridiculous. And, hey, in those games, the sons within six feet are 51% as a team. I saw Kurt Goldsbury put that up. 92% within six feet of the basket. What is that? Like, aren't you going to have a couple of them just roll off or like, you know, bounce in and out? 92% within six feet of the basket. So what you got to hope is you could at least stop some of those.

I mean, that is just absurd. And I really don't know what there's, there's no great answer. He is that spectacular right now. But look, I'd imagine the bucks will probably take care of business on their home floor and the sons are going to take care of business when they get back home. that's what makes it a great evenly match series. We bargain for that coming into this.

And I think we're, I think we're getting it. I do. Even though the scores haven't been as close as we would have hoped for. I think this projects moving forward is a very close, very competitive,

a very thrilling series. I hope that's what we get, Chris. I really do. I hope we do. No more blowouts. One close games. I want nail biters.

It's been a lot more fun to watch, even with those margins. Yeah. Than Team USA has been. Holy mackerel. What a disaster. Now, I watch our, they got on track against Argentina today, but Argentina, this is not your dad's Argentina, right? Like there's no Idris Noscioni and Manu Genoblee and like those guys, those guys, Luis Scola's there.

I mean, he was on your dad's Argentina, but nobody else. Which, by the way, little proper respect for 41-year-old Luis Scola. playing in his fifth Olympics, which is just outrageous. Fifth Olympics, 41, has cut the hair that was so synonymous with his NBA career. He is ripped. He looks like frigging Wolverine or something. Yeah, dude. Unbelievable.

He's in like, you know, bodybuilder shape. It's kind of crazy. You're supposed to have a dead bod, Luis. He's still playing. He's ripped. Looks like you can do it. triathlon or something. He's got the closely shaven hair.

Like, he looks like a, like you can work at an office or something now. And forever, he always had that long, sweaty hair his whole career. But they don't have the players. I mean, Argentina does it. I don't want to take away from what Team USA did. But I couldn't help but laugh as Team USA kicked the hell out of them. Greg Popovich, who jumped all over the reporter from. from the athletic saying,

teams don't get blown out anymore. And he was like, arguing, you know, of course the reporter responded back, like giving him the USA's margin of victory against these teams. And then they beat the shit out of Argentina. It's like,

oh, hey, pop, I thought nobody gets blown out anymore. They were miserable against Nigeria. They're miserable in the game prior to the Australia. So I guess good to get on track against Argentina. But I don't know, man. I think this is going to be a real, it's going to be a real. Everybody kept saying they're going to be fine.

They're going to be fine. I think they're going to have some problems with the really good teams for sure. So like Australia, they might have trouble. France, they could have trouble. Yep. I think these types of teams, maybe. Usually Spain. Like there could be some trouble there.

Yeah. Nigeria. Definitely. But ultimately in the end here, this. team is supposed to be getting Drew Holiday, Chris Middleton, and Devin Booker. So what?

We'll see if all three of them come back. But I mean, I talked about this a little bit. Who are they playing over? Well, I mean, there'll be on the roster. It'll be better than playing Kevin Love Minutes.

Who's going to play those minutes? Drew Holiday? I mean, Kevin Love. I can't even believe he's there. What did you think about my conversation with Bill on Sunday's pod about Kevin Love if you listened? Bill hates it.

It hates the Kevin Love. on the team. I do not think that Kevin Love should be on the team. I don't. I don't think that I don't think that

when you when you mail it in like he did for three years for three years you know and you're getting paid the amount of money

that you are like to me and then everybody's talking about a buyout for you and everything else. I mean, I think it is

a tremendous honor to get to represent your country and go play in the Olympics. And I do think that there is a necessary, and I know that like you're not always going to have, it's not like he's a, you know, a mass murderer or something, right?

I don't want to act like his deeds or some horrible deeds that he's done. But, A, basketball wise, and that's what's first here, basketball wise, he is not proven to be responsible. And professionalism wise, in my opinion, has not proven to be responsible in terms of, like, even if you want to act like a jackass off the court and you want to force trades and all that kind of stuff, that's kind of commonplace in the NBA. I draw the line when you mail it in. Like to me, I just, if you're going to collect the $31 million check, go play.

Be a good example. try to be a leader for young players on your team. That's what I mean. Like that's what you're saying is like that's where you draw the line because like you're not competing for the good of your team. That's what you mean. Do what Chris Paul did. Go lead somebody.

You think he wanted to be in Oklahoma City? Shit. At 35 years old? With that said though, Chris, I mean, Kevin Love is not the reason why this team could have some potential issues. No. There are not enough defense first players on the roster. There's also not team basketball.

players. It's a lot of isolation players. It's an all-star team essentially. Yes. I still think they're going to win it all. They should get gold. But the team's not perfect. The team's still not perfectly constructed. They need guys to lock in and become the guys that they can when they put in full effort on

defense. And I think that'll happen eventually. The two things that stand out to me. A, they needed a real point guard. They should have brought a real point guard. They shouldn't. They're running a weird offense, by the way. Not enough pick and roll, in my opinion. Not enough pick and roll. I'd love to see some doubt.

Like, can we see Draymond Green screen five plays in a row for Damien Loan? And I would love to see that. Let's just see what happens. I want to see what happens with Kevin Durant, spacing the forward, Bradley Beal. Like, let's see what happens. I don't think they're going to be able to stop it. Simple stuff. Let's do it.

I also think they don't have the guy. Once upon a time, everybody on that team, they knew Michael Jordan's the guy. And Kobe, the guys. Kobe was the guy. if they have a bunch of the guys. No, no, nobody can be the guy. No, but there is the guy that everybody looks up to. He's the guy.

You mean? The leader. Yes. Is Damian Lillard the guy? And he's also the best player. No, you know, it would have been LeBron. Obviously, LeBron's got space jam. And Curry.

Curry, I think, could actually be that guy at this point in career. But I don't think. The way they're feeding Lillard seemed like they want him to be the guy. the guy. They were leaning on Damien Lower like they're the Portland Trailblazers. And they also put him on the podium with pop. That's not Kevin Durant on that podium with pop. Like, they'll tell you something.

You know? That might have been because he had the best game on the team, but. Maybe. But, you know, you talked about it, like, I think that there are this is a weird mix where there isn't. Kevin Durant's never been known as the guy that is the

rally, the troops. Everybody looks up to me guy, right? And if Chris Paul was there, everybody would be looking up to Chris Paul, Chris Paul would obviously be, it's a weird spot because you've got Dremont, who's usually a very vocal leader and heart and soul type guy. And yet, you already know, you know, the rant probably rolls his eyes a little bit, and there's, you know, especially when he was dribbling it off his leg trying to go for the floater and it ends up in the corner to Tatum. And I just think you've got a, there's not like who's the leader of that team, who's the guy. Even to me, there have been times where it's like, I know the ball is going to be in this guy's hands down three to Australia.

Like, what's your answer? Who? Let's say we'd go into that. And it happened to the Olympics. We're down three, 10 seconds left. Is it Lillard? Duran? I don't think this is the problem, Chris.

Probably Duran. I don't think this is the problem. You have a lot of great options. You probably can't go wrong with any of them. It's the defense. What are you talking about? They've gone wrong with all of them the last two times they've gotten beat. It's just,

it's just two exhibition games. Against Australia and Nigeria. And maybe I'm not, maybe I'm not reading into it enough. Yeah. I still think this team's going to win goals. Look, they should.

They should. Damn, they should. But the fact that they're a 32 point favorite against Nigeria and they lose to them. It's embarrassing. And then they're a 17.5 point favorite against Australia is extremely alarmed. It is. It may not be as easy as it should be. And I think this is more a knock on the people who are putting this team together.

It's a poorly constructed team. A guy who hasn't tried for three years has been rewarded with a roster spot. It's a poorly constructed team. They don't have bigs at all. Whether they win gold or not, like whoever's putting this roster together, look in the mirror. You can do better. Well, there's nothing funnier to me than watching, you know, the other team. They got a 41-year-old Luis Scola, and it's like, all right, can't let him kill us.

So we're having to play Draymond and Bam at the same time. Just so we've got some size. And some guys that are going to get in there, like, you know, fight. You're fighting a 41-year-old for God's. I mean, like, that's what you're having to do against them is just to, and I know they ended up playing really well and ended up beating up Argentina. But I don't, after watching Nigeria, after watching Australia, I think those teams are, they're good basketball teams.

There's been a gap here where Argentina lost their guys. so many of those guys that played together for so long obviously led by Genoblee that's not the same when Skola's still playing at 41

that tells you how much new blood I mean it would be the equivalent of like we had like Antoine Jameson playing power forward Antoine Jameson

Jameson that's outrageous right you pull that name out of your brain I'm just saying like somebody that's like around that year You know, like, around that age, you'd be like, what the hell?

Antoine Jameson, like nobody has come around since Antoine Jameson? You know who else started for them today? Your favorite player, Chris. Camposso. Yeah. Your favorite. Big fan. I know you're a big fan of him.

I just had to bring that up. Yeah. How did he end up? He'd end up pretty good. Do you do okay today? No. He had four of 12, 12 points. Two of nine from three, two of five.

from the line, two rebounds, three fouls, two assists, two turnovers, one steal. How my God, Bull Morrow end up? Because I really liked him in the draft. Ball Morrow, four points on two of three and eleven minutes. Ridicrous. Two fouls, a rebound, three turnovers, no assists. They need to play him. Yeah, give him some more minutes. I liked him in the draft.

I really did. Yeah, he's a big playmaker. Right? Big playmaker. I like Ball Morrow, too. He's got a chance to be a good player in the NBA. Well, and they say he's coming over. this year.

That'll be good for Minnesota because they got him on that draft night the I thought I thought the Nick should have kept him Beaumorrow but I mean they ended they ended up there was a good draft as long as Obie works out because the quickly thing looks

like that was very good the wolves don't need Ben Simmons they get Ball Morrow coming over wait wolves Ben Simmons yeah I mean there's a rumor today Lord about about the teams that have interest in Ben Simmons. You saw that, right, Chris?

Oh, no. From Sharmes Sharania. Ben Simmons and Carl Anthony Towns. From, okay, from Mark Stein, in addition to Indiana and Minnesota, which was from Shams, I believe. Mark Stein reported the calves and the Kings and the Raptors are teams that have expressed interest. I'll tell you what.

Indiana, Minnesota, Cleveland, Sacramento, Toronto. I can't imagine those are teams high on clutch and Ben Simmons lists. I can't imagine that. But I'll tell you this, Chris, this is my understanding. It was reported earlier today, I believe from Shams, that the Sixers won an all-star caliber player in return. That all-star caliber player is either Deen Lord or Bradley Bale. That's who the Sixers want.

Those are the guys at the top of their wish list for Ben Simmons. So any deal that they make is about getting enough trade assets or players to put together for those guys. So like for the Sixers here, they're looking for ways to do a three-way deal to get one of those guys. And I don't know if that's going to end up happening. I don't I would expect,

I would bet no. Don't you think you say that? That's what you say. It doesn't mean that's what you end up doing. But that's what they want. That's their preference. I'll tell you this. I don't know how you could package it.

I mean, throw a contract in there. If you say fine, we'll give you Ben Simmons, but you got to give us, you got to give us buddy healed. Do you got to give us how, All of Burton and you got to give it and Harrison Barnes, right?

We'll make the money, whatever, whatever. Something like that. Yeah. And then you get the dead eye shooter to put alongside, you know, around defensive wing. You get that. Yep. That's not a bad deal. Oh, hey, and I'm one hundred percent with you.

And we'll take a shot on Bagley. Chris, I'm 100% with you. Like that's Philly's plan. They want Damian Liller. They want Bradley Beal. It doesn't mean that there's not pressure from Joe. Embed to make a move. It doesn't mean that there's not pressure from ownership to make a move now.

It doesn't mean that Daryl Morey isn't like, you know what? I don't want to risk going into the season with Ben Simmons. Let's just take the best deal we possibly can now. There is upside and waiting. There's also downside. What if they go into the season and Joel and Bede and Ben Simmons start to clash because of how things ended? What if Ben Simmons is no better and pressure ramps up?

And then his value actually drops because right now, like it hasn't dropped all that much. Teams still really love Ben Simmons. He's 25 years old. He's an all-stars. He's one of the best defensive players in the league. He's a great playmaker. Teams want Ben Simmons. But what if it comes to a point that you have to make a trade? Then value goes down and then you're not getting a Damien Lord or Bradley Beale. Then you might not even be getting Tyrese Halliburn with Buddy Heald and Harrison Barnes as you just, you know, put out there. Yeah, you know, I'm saying something like that that you would get that to me, you're doing everything with Embed in mind. Exactly. And that type of deal?

Multiple pieces. Yep. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that one does. It really does. As soon as you brought up the Kings, to me, I look at that is like stuff. Because you remember that whole Buddy Heald liking the tweet? And everybody thought that they were maybe going to make a deal for him last year.

That's what they need. They need that kind of just all you got to do is space out the floor. Get this guy. And Buddy Heald, I know he had a down year this last year. It's one of the best shooters in the world. like he's one of the best shooters in the world. And if you're going to get that guy open threes, he's going to knock down a lot of open threes.

And Barnes could be a piece. And obviously, Halliburton's got crazy potential. If Halliburton ends up becoming their all-star, it's not going to shock anybody. They also have the ninth pick in the draft too. Right. And that's the funny thing about those teams listed. Cleveland has the third pick.

Toronto has the fourth pick. I wonder if we'll see either of those teams put those picks on the table. And for the Sixers, do you know, naturally you want to flip that pick for a proven superstar? But I wonder if at that point you're like, yeah, you know what? We'll draft Jalen Suggs. He's ready to play right away. He might not be at his peak, but a young guy, bring him in.

Maybe you go a little bit younger. I don't see it, but I'm just throwing the idea out there to go that side of things rather than pushing it and going now. I think I personally think you have to push now. You have Joelle Abed. he's still young, he's still in his 20s, but with his injury history and how big he is and the history of guys that size with durability issues as they near 30 and get past 30, the time is now, like you can't be patient here. So it has to have something in return that can help you now, which is why I like that idea that you mentioned with the Kings because Halliburton, you know

you could help. You know Heald could help. You know Harris-Bards could help. And if you get a pick with that too, that's a heck of a haul, man. I'll tell you that. Like that would be a pretty good hall for a guy that doesn't hit his free throws. It's allergic to shooting who hasn't improved on offense, who only has a right hook in the post, who's stubborn on the offensive end of the floor when it comes to his development. So to me, that would be great for the Sixers if they weren't able to pull off a deal like that or exactly like that. I'm into that idea, Chris.

I wonder what Sixers fans say, let us, let us know. If you're a Sixers fan listening to the show and also if you're a Kings fan, I'm curious. Sixer fans are like at this point. Come on. They take, they would take just healed. If they tip off the season with Ben Simmons play a point card, they ain't going to be thrilled. But what if Ben Simmons comes back like a 34% right-handed shooter from three? It's pretty good, Chris.

Pretty good. Yeah. Well, by the way, this all started with the T-Wolf. What the hell would they give up? Anthony Edwards? They don't have anything. They want to give up Edwards. I don't want DeAngelo Russell.

So what are you giving me? Belique Beasley? Like, what do they have that I want? I guess Beasley? I don't think D-Loh. I don't think Mory would want D-Lo. Like I said, D-Loha wants Miller or Biel. It doesn't mean Mory's going to get those guys.

Yeah. But that's who Mory wants. Lillarder Biel. Well, he wanted James Hardin, too. Didn't get him. Yeah, it didn't work out. You mentioned the draft, and we are now about two weeks away. You know, it's coming pretty quickly.

I know you're going to be updating a lot of your draft stuff on the ringer. Just real quickly, what have you been thinking about the most over the course of the last week? Because this is kind of the time where we're about to enter hyperspace in terms of the boards and the mocks and everything changing dramatically. As more research is done, as more pro days take place, as more, you know, as you talk to more people. you know, I think back to last year, and if we would have talked a couple weeks before the draft, it would have been pretty wild to think Patrick Williams is going to go forth. But then by the time we got to the draft,

Patrick Williams going forth wasn't crazy shocking, right? Kind of had some tips that that might be very well taking place. What about this year in terms of what you're thinking about the most with about two weeks out? I'm thinking about the guys who could be late first round picks, early second round picks that are great value. And somebody like Trey Murphy out of Virginia, you know, doing my evaluations over of a bunch of guys. Trey Murphy's the guy that I look at, 6-8, 6-9, great shooter, high IQ, smart player, versatile defensively. I mean, like, what more can you ask for?

Like it's so much like kind of Sadiq Bay last year, except probably better. Sadiq Bay comes in right away. It's a very good defensive wing, very good offensive wing for the Detroit Pistons. He could have played for anybody in the postseason. Trey Murphy, one of those types of guys. And my understanding is there's some late lottery hype for him, mid first round hype for him. So he's rising on teams boards. Somebody like out of the G League, Isaiah Todd, there is a report today that he's not working out for teams in the late first round now.

he's only focusing on teams that are in the lottery or near the lottery. I say Todd was a guy people talked about in the second round. I'm not sure where I'm going to have him ended up ranked on my big board. But like you think about six foot 10, he can shoot. He can do a little bit off the dribble for you. He's got some post game. He's just got to figure it out on defense. He's going to figure some stuff out on offense to, you know, improve the raw areas of his game.

But like from a foundation standpoint, that's a guy I'd love to take a shot on for upside. So I'm thinking about the guys with certainty, like Trey Murphy, who can contribute on a rookie contract and have great value for your franchise, but also the guys that could have upside, like an Isaiah Todd. And how do you rank those guys, you know, against each other? Like, that's the challenge in the draft, the certainty versus the raw players who have upside. And it's challenging. But there's a lot of those guys. Like J.T. Thor, you know, is raw upside?

Chris Duarte is certainty. Like, ranking those guys is almost like two different games. It's two different situations for every. individual team. When you have said, you said the first guy's Virginia, right? Yeah,

Trey Murphy. Yeah, pretty good track record. Great program. Great program. Great program. Yeah. A good recent track record for Tony Bennett there, right?

Whether it's, you can go back to Brockton, Joe Harris, DeAndre Hunter looked like he was going to really turn into a player. Even Justin Anderson, had he figured out how to shoot threes, he would have been an NBA player. Had he figured that out.

Yeah. There's been a, Ted Jerome's bounced around so far. I got a shot, still super young. For sure. And I'm still a fan of his. But you know you have to defend there and you know that you play a very smart brand of basketball at Virginia. Right?

If you're going to get on the floor and you're going to play for him, you're going to win a lot of games or whatever. And I'm so glad you brought up that particular topic because we talked about this in regards to Cam Johnson. That was part of our discussion. And I thought you brought up something super smart regarding this. that I had not thought a lot about, but I will tell you that since our conversation, I've thought a lot about this. And it was in reference to Cam Johnson.

It was a reference to Desmond Bain. It was in reference to Brandon Clark, like some of these older guys that have come in. You've rented that Duarte kid. So one of the things that you find out that has become much more prevalent since the last collective bargaining agreement is that if you're going to be a really, really good team,

and you're going to have two or three awesome players. You're going to be paying them a fortune. And a lot of these teams just don't have depth. Once you pay your guys, once you pay them, it's really hard to have depth. And nailing it in the draft, the Celtics are going through this, right? They didn't nail these draft picks that don't have depth, right?

As soon as they had to pay, really pay out for guys. So they're paying Kemba, they're paying Tatum, they're paying Jaylen. And now you've got to fill out the rest of the roster, and it's hard. Because, you know, if a guy's really worth assault, by the time, you know, free agency comes around, you're going to have to give him a nickel. And you're hoping you can get real contribution from guys on rookie contracts. So you need Romeo Langford and Grant Williams and Peyton Pritchard, all those guys to hash out. Well, regarding what you are saying with guys,

being able to contribute immediately. The reason I've thought about this so much more recently, Kev, is because if you've got your guys on your team and your pretty good team, that drafting those guys and having them be able to play for you, you say you're getting them for four years, I know this guy's going to be able to play, and he's going to be able to play for me for four years, four years. And then we can figure it out.

After that, right? But I know this guy's going to be able to, he's going to be able to play for me. I'm going to be able to plug him in a lineup next year and play for me. And for the next four years, I got a player rather than maybe the last two years. You know, he takes a step up. Like the way it was always done since the beginning of time. You usually didn't see guys be awesome in year one and year two. And you didn't see him leading Easter conference finals teams in year.

three or being one of the top five players in the NBA and Lucas case in year three. But that the trajectory now is so fast with those guys that now you sit there and you say, I mean, geez, I know what I think this guy is going to be in four years. But guess what else is going to happen to four years? If he is what I think he's going to be, I'm going to be paying him a fortune. Right? I'm paying him a fortune. Like Jonathan Isaac has not done, we both like him.

He hadn't done dick for Orlando. And he's gotten, what do you get, 80 million? He got an $80 million deal. So like they're paying Jonathan Isaac starting next year. They ain't got nothing from it. Now that's because of injury. But still, that kind of stuff happened. Guys get injured.

Guys develop. You know, they may not play that much. Like, you know, you're a guy, Moldamba. He hadn't gotten enough minutes. He hadn't played. So by the time Mobamba, actually, if he turns out to be pretty good, by the time he's pretty good, now all of a sudden he's going out and you got to pay him, like real money to keep him on your team. Whereas if you can find a guy that could come in and play for you for four years on a rookie contract,

I think that actually has more value than ever. Now, that's what I've been thinking about, that that actually has more value. value now than ever. And that is not to say you don't take home run swings on guys that will develop over time. I'm just saying that now where if you got stars, you're paying them $30, $40 million a year, boy, if you can go get some guys that can help them quick, now all of a sudden, like, you've got somebody outperforming a contract for four years. it's a difficult balance because you know like i said it's tough to balance it to because if you

take the guy who you feel like can play right away you might be end up you might end up taking kelly olinic over yannis you might take solomon hill or reggie bollock instead of rudy gober in the late first round like that can happen like if you don't take a swing you're not going to hit a grand slam you're just not going to you're not going to with your draft pick if you don't take the swing and the risk on a guy that doesn't have the upside. With that said, though, there's immense value in having your Cam Johnson's and having your McKell Bridges, your guys who you're like, you know what, they might not be a star, but they can be stars in their roles. Like, you've got to have those guys to be a championship contender. So it's about where you are in your timeline of where

you're building your team out, where you think your roster will be in a year or two or three. It's a And that's why like with these general big boards, you know, where it's like for all 30 teams, the truth is like it'd be dramatically different for the kings versus the thunder versus the magic versus, you know, the Pacers versus the Bucks. Like it's a dramatically different board for every team. So I mean, this year has a lot of those guys with both extremes. The high upside guys who have a lot of questions about their game that could pop versus guys like the Chris Duarte's and the Corey Kisperts who can play an offer role as a shooter or a defender or whatever it might be.

Well, let's just say it's not always, though. I think sometimes we don't know what the ceiling is. And that's why, like, look, nobody would have said that you're taking a home or a grand slam swing when you're drafting Malcolm Brogden and Draymond Green and Kyle Lowry and Jimmy Butler and even Kawhi Leonard. It wasn't a home run.

There's a ton of guys, though. Guys can't exceed expectations. Yeah, when we saw them, we said, that's a guy that's going to be this, right? And he's going to be able to star in his role or whatever. But turns out, like, their ceiling was way higher than any of us ever thought it was going to be. Right. That's a bonus on Indiana.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. somebody like that. Sealing is way higher, right? It's not just 19-year-olds that have high ceilings. Sometimes a 22-year-old has a high ceiling, too.

You know? We just didn't see it. Look, it's how Donovan Mitchell. I mean, if people thought Donovan Mitchell was going to be down of it Mitchell, you know? It's not like he only played, he wasn't a one and done at Louisville. Wasn't a guy that, like, Trey Young did and took the college basketball by storm. You know, next thing you know, you get him at 13. I mean, what was his ceiling?

Nobody, I promise you, nobody thought it was scoring 50 in playoff games. Everybody's path is different. Yeah. It's so unpredictable. It's so hard. It really is. No, the draft is always hard. I mean, all you get to know about how unpredictable it is and how many mistakes are made,

it's just look at the history of the drafts. Teams that have all the intel, all the medical, have all the information, have all the stories from the high school guidance counselor to the best friend to this kid like who got bullied him in school or whatever like everything with all the extremes like you get everything and they still get it wrong they have the the best analytics models in the world they still get it wrong oh yeah it's very difficult to draft a 19 or 23 year old kid and project him in the NBA like there's so many variables there's so many that make it difficult i told you i told you this story last year and i just thought of it this week because i saw some

story about how was it Terrence Davis the guy for used to be at the raptors at the kings he wants like double-digit millions a year or something like there was some story about him like in this offseason and how much he wants and I told you it was just a few years ago that I asked an executive in the league when I was going through the names and I said Teres Davis the note I have written down next to Terrence Davis was should play football and I just saw a story about I'm like going to command the double digit millions in the offseason and whatever. And I was like just two years ago. And that's a scout who had that.

Yes. An NBA scout. Yes. Yeah. Told me he should play football. Kind of says all you need to know. Now, in fairness, he's from Mississippi and he was an amazing football player. But he's also probably going to make himself $50 million playing NBA basketball.

He was undrafted. He didn't get drafted, right? Terrence Davis. And same with like Fred Van Bleet. Yeah. I mean, obviously Van Vleet a far better player than Terrence Davis who, you know, we'll see what type of deal he ends up getting. Nobody thought he had a ceiling at all. Forget what is his ceiling. Nobody thought he had a ceiling. It's like you just, you never know. It's hard. I don't know. Yeah. Well, good luck with it. I don't envy you trying to put together the big board and the mock draft. Yeah. I'll put Killing and Hayes number one again. By the way, give Killing and Hayes some time. Oh, is he,

Is he playing in this Olympic thing? I got to tune him in. Is he on the tee? Is he playing with them? This off season? I don't believe so. No. I don't think any of the young guys.

They could have a war for the point card spot. France awarded a lot of the older guys. A lot of veterans made that team. Frankie Smokes is, right? I believe Frankie Smokes is on the team. Yes. By the way, have you heard of this French guy? Yeah, I talked about him with Bill on Sunday.

they. Victor Wenband, Miamah. I didn't get to hear the end. I didn't get to, I didn't make it to it. Um, in the pot. Yeah. Victor, Victor Dub. Yeah. He was on. He was on TV this weekend. Yeah, we, we talked about him. Seven foot two. A young kid who can hit threes do a little bit off the dribble, block a heck of a lot of shots. He's a 20, 23 first round pick, number one pick in all likelihood. I saw Bob Demp say he'd go number one in this draft. I was like, damn. I don't know about that. I don't know about that, but like, like, definitely top three. Best international prospect since since Luca? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 7-2.

And he's playing in the under 18? Yeah. It is mobile. What is he going to be? He's mobile. Eight foot tall. Hope not. I hope he stops growing. You don't want him to get too tall. Oh, I want an eight-footer. That would be amazing.

I mean, assuming you could run. Yes. Assuming you could run and stay healthy. That's the priority. Yeah. But he's a real talent, man. He's a real talent. When I saw there was a 7-2 guy in the under 18, I was like, you've got to be kidding. Like, he's not on the French team either.

You know, like, they didn't pick any of the young guys. Dumboya from the Detroit Pistons didn't make it either. Oh, wow. Say, good, the boy, you didn't? Yeah, he didn't make it either. So they picked a lot of veterans. Fornier, Gobert. Fornier, yeah, exactly.

It's Frankie Smokes? Frankie Smokes is on it. Vincent Porrier is on it I think the youngest guy might be Gerson Yaduicelli I believe he might be the youngest guy who made the team Dang

Yeah it don't make it easy Kevin O'Killian Not getting to see his guy in the Olympics That's bullcrap They don't know what they have in France Hey as long as he's working on his jump shot I'm feeling really good about his future in the NBA Really good really good

Okay Playing alongside Kate Cunningham or maybe we'll see it's either that or buried behind him and it stunts his growth so you got to hope they can work they can play together they can I believe

I believe in Killian Hayes buying stock Chris I'm buying when everybody else is selling killing go on eBay you can find them there's nothing I'll buy the Ballmorrow cards you buy Kevin I hope this NBA finals

continues to be good. And I will catch up with you on Friday. I'm looking forward to. Have a good week, everybody. Thanks to producer Sasha as always. And we'll talk to you later this week.