The Mismatch - The Grizz Are for Real, DeMar and the Bulls Continue to Prove People Wrong, and High Praise for Becky Hammon

Episode Date: January 4, 2022

Verno and KOC jump right into last night’s Grizzlies win over the Nets (00:50). KOC is all in on the Grizz and believes they are only getting better. In looking at the Nets, the guys debate what the root issues are for the team (10:51). The guys keep getting surprised by how good DeMar DeRozan has been and how much he’s elevated the Bulls this season (19:39). Luka Doncic returned to the court over the weekend, and the guys discuss how he can continue to grow as a player (29:51). They also discuss Anfernee Simons’s career night vs. the Hawks, whether Jerami Grant can go back to being a role player if traded away, the excitement for Klay Thompson’s return, and the mess going in Houston (39:37). Finally, they discuss Becky Hammon's departure from the Spurs to coach in the WNBA (55:43). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringer Gambling Show is here to help you place your bets on the biggest sports around the world. Join NFL analyst Warren Sharp on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays with guests Chris Vernon, Ben Solac, and Joe House to guide you through the NFL betting landscape. Each week, they'll cover everything from spreads, game totals, and parlays to player props, futures, post-game reactions, and more. Check out the Ringer Gambling Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Join me as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K. Kevin O'Conflict. Kevin O'Killian. Kevin. Burnow! You must be feeling so happy this morning after what happened last night.

Who, me? Now, look, I don't want to come off like a homer, but... You know what? I'm going to let you... I'm going to get... let you say what needs to be said. All right. I'll say, I'll say what needs to be said here, Berdo. Okay. So with Memphis last night, they defeated the Brooklyn Nets, 118 to 104. Demoralized.

After the game, Desmond Bain raises the question. People are asking if John Morant should be a all-star. I'm wondering if he's actually the best point guard at all of basketball. And I think there's a case to be made that John Morant and Desmond Bain with the way these two guys are both taking their

respective leaps. They are one of the three, four, or five best back courts in the NBA this season. Granted, some guys have been out like Kyrie Irving on the other side of that matchup, but the fact is, Chris, this Grizzly's team, that is the four seed right now, it is time to recognize that with Jha, with Desmond Bain, with Stephen Adams, who we've talked about recently, just pounding Nick Clacks on the boards in that game last night, with the amount of depth this team has, The Grizzlies are for real as a four-seat. This team is absolutely for real. This isn't some fake fast start to the season.

This isn't some young team overachieving. The Grizzlies are a for real team right now that is in a position with all this youth that's only getting better, there's good mix of veterans, and so much flexibility in terms of trade assets and draft picks, that if they wanted to, they could add a guy to get even better. So I am all the way in with your Memphis Grizzlies, Chris. I have love and watching them so much.

It makes me so happy. Desmond Bain. You asked me a couple weeks ago. You said, is this surprising? Did anybody expect this? And the answer was no. And one of the things we talked about at the time was it is impossible to know. One of the things that is so hard in predicting teams is, well, the first one is how guys are all going to play together.

We've dealt with that with what is current. the number one seed in the Eastern Conference, the Chicago Bulls. You can speculate how it's all going to fit together. You can watch them briefly in preseason. But until they play it out and until we start watching them play in true competitive games, it's impossible to know. You're just figuring, hey, they've got this talent. And then you decide, do I think it's going to work or do I think it's not going to work?

Obviously, in their case, it has worked exceptionally. So that's one time. where it's difficult to figure out. The other time is the internal development of players. How much do those players improve? And then when those players improve, or maybe they are in a new system that is going to highlight their talents in a way

that their previous system didn't before. Stephen Adams has looked at radically different today than he was a year ago in New Orleans. Now, that's because of who he is playing with. That's because of the positions he is put in. That's because he is doing what he is best at, and he is doing it consistently, being the number one offensive rebounder in the entire NBA, becoming more of a playmaker and his passing ability has been on display.

But more importantly than any of that is that development of Morant and Bain. And when you have simultaneously two guys taking monster, leaps, one in Bain, which they cleared the way. They moved off of Grace and Allen in order to clear the way for Bain. So they obviously believed in him. But nobody could have believed he was going to be this good, one of the best two guards in the entire NBA right now. And the Morant assent to superstardom is something that people did see coming, even within the

organization. Zach Kleinman, at the end of his, who is the general manager of the Grizzlies, at the end of his preseason press conference, he said, nobody asked me about John Moran, but let me tell you, John Morant will be an all-star this year. What he's got coming for you is something that people aren't ready for.

And true to his word, he was aware he was privy to what the work and what John looked like in the offseason and true to his work. Now, you have a scenario last night where it's another 30-point game. It's a game where he's on the court with Durant and Hardin and he looks like the best player on the floor. And he is getting MVP chance in Brooklyn. Like you're on a different level then. Right? Like there is and when you're and when you're, we talk about this a lot.

It's a different deal when you're number one on the chalkboard. And I've said this about a lot of guys that go from year one to year two. And sometimes there's a little bit of a down tick, right? We've seen it. Halliburton's now figuring it out. And I know he's got a different situation when Fox was out. And there are other guys, right, that have taken a little bit of a dip maybe in year two after spectacular rookie seasons.

And that's because where you are. on the chalkboard before that game changes dramatically. And if you were outstanding in year one, all of a sudden, you're the guy at the top of the chalkboard in year two. And so you go through it. You take your lumps. And then year three, now you've seen, okay, here's how they're going to guard me. Here's what they're going to do with big guys.

Here's, I have to become a better three-point shooter. Like all of those things. And if you're willing to put the work into it, then year three. and that is the case in many instances with point guards, year three actually ends up being the big leap into a different level of play. And that's what we're seeing from John Morant here. I mean, he's just in absolute control of the game. And we've seen that from him the last couple of years,

but there's an increased level of seasoning with his decision making, whether it's to score or to pass. and the improvement of his jump shot shooting above 40% from three point range, some off the dribble, some off the catch. That for him is a guy who already was one of the best interior finishers and interior playmakers, whether his dump-offs to his bigs or kickouts to three-point shooters. That only enhances everything and creates so many more paths to creating buckets for his teammates or himself than he had before. And when you factor in the fact that Desmond Bain has doubled his production from nine points per,

game to nearly 18 points per game and is only ascending up with more opportunity off the dribble as a mid-range shooter especially more opportunity to be a creator in the pick and roll the compliment that those two guys have together because bain can play with or without the ball and excel and either he's such a smart cutter he can screen a little bit for you can spot up and just drain three he's one of the best shooters in all a basketball period end a story one of the best shooters in all a basketball You pair that guy with John Moran, who was your primary, and Bain is happily accepting the role and responsibility that he has. It's just a perfect balance between those two guys and that backcourt and everything else on the roster just fits around it. And I don't think at all this is some exaggeration about their early season production.

I mean, I tweeted last night about Bain, the end of the first half that he had against the Nets, where it was one jumper after the other. it was like a pull up for mid-range, then it was a leaning floater. And then he got all the way to the basket, like play after play after play, just getting a shot off from different levels of the floor. And I saw some responses like, you're hanging out with Verno too much.

And I'm sure people are being sarcastic, but some of them still aren't buying the Grizzlies. I think it's time to buy the Grizzlies. It's time to buy them. This team is for real, and they could only get better this season or indefinitely in the years to come. Well, part of last night's result was twofold. A, you had the Grizzlies and their performance. B, you had what was going on with Brooklyn, which is a very strange situation.

Now, I will tell you that going into that game, one of the grand fears when Kyle Anderson went into protocols, and he was joining De Anthony Melton, and he was joining Dylan Brooks, and he was joining, like, they didn't have any wings. A lot of guys out. A lot of guys. They didn't have, in all the wings. So they had Santhi Aldama available, and they had Jared Culver available. That was it. And Killian Tilley started, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Killian Tilley was the start. But those were like the possibles, okay? And that's what you're having to do. That's who you're having to play to deal with Hardin to deal with Duran. And then Duran comes out, and he's five for 16 in the first half of that game. and then as the Grizzlies put 40 points on them in the third quarter, Miranda has 18 in the third quarter, they're running off on the nets.

Steve Nash pulls them and he never goes back to him. Now their bench had a surge, I think it was a 17 to 2 run, had a surge. But this was a real cause for pause for me on Brooklyn watching this game, Kevin, because I'm always keenly aware of how teams respond when they're being called out. And you had Steve Nash calling them out after, I believe it was the Philly game and was pretty upset about it all. And then you had Durant joining the fold after they lost to the Clippers. And he was mad.

And so, like, you have this wake-up call. You have this, the star player is out there saying what he thinks about how embarrassing this is and the level of play. And then you have the coach saying that. And then you come out and the next thing you know, you're down by 28 to a team on your home floor. Like, I'm not saying they can't get it all back together. They got a lot of talent. But to me, that's a little bit of a red flag. Because typically when you see that, you get these home run efforts out of teams.

It's like, okay, you've had your come to Jesus meeting. Everybody said what they're going to say. They've aired out the grievances. Now let's go. One for all, all for one. We've been lazy and gotten caught doing it. We're a little too comfortable here. and instead they were getting run off the court

to the point where he benches, Hardin and Durant, I supposed to send a message in the fourth quarter of that game. Wild. But at least they're getting Kyrie back. That should make everything peaceful. I mean, this is all part of the plan,

tank to the five or six seat. Then you get more away games and you get home games in the playoffs. This is what they want, Chris. But in all seriousness, this partial seriousness. That could actually be for their best considering Kyrie's situation. You know what ran through my mind last night? I'm like, I'll be damn. Daryl's going to get friggin' James Hardin after all.

Well, there's some coded language where they're trying to talk about Hardin, but not talking about Hardin. Seriously. You watch it. Watch their, watch their quotes, read their quotes. They're talking about Hardin without talking about Hardin. How do you think Kevin Durant feels? The situation he's in now where James Hardin isn't quite his prime self, definitely heavier than he was just a couple years ago. Kyrie Irving won't get vaccinated. It's only going to play in a way games. It's like, how do you think Katie feels when he's like, I'm averaging the most minutes I have in like eight years after a ruptured Achilles.

I'm playing in an MVP level of these guys doing their thing. Like, where's my support? I wonder how Katie feels about all this. Like if you get him, if he, if he's in a room, you know, with his age. and they're just talking openly, not on the boardroom. They're just talking openly. I bet he's pissed off. We just need one of our listener sleuths to figure out what his burner is so we can find that.

Yeah, right, yeah. I want to find that burner. I bet it's hot right now. I bet that burner is really hot right now. But, but yeah, like with the Nets right now, there's, I thought in last night's game, I was a little bit surprised. Steve Nash at times, I feel like he's rolling with his veterans too long. Johnson, Griffin,

I mean, some of these veterans just aren't giving what they need to anymore and I wonder how much he'll move towards... Man, Blake Griffin turned into a pumpkin kev. Yeah. He really did. That was like a good jolt of energy for them. Did as good a job as anybody dealing

with Janus last year in the playoffs. This year, I mean, yes. I wonder if he's dealing with something physically again. Which wouldn't be a surprise, considering his injury history. Maybe it's It could be oldness. It could be oldness.

Yeah. Oldness, 32 years old. But, I mean, with this Nets team, though, the number one problem last night, though, was, you know, defense slash rebounding. You know, you need to grab the defensive rebound to end a possession. And Stephen Adams, among others, Nick Claxton, as much as I love him, I talk about him all the time. The one flaw that he has is his rebounding. He's an undersized big. And unless the Nets can solve that, you think about some of the.

matchups they're going to have in the Eastern Conference, Philadelphia potentially, Janus and the Bucks potentially. For Brooklyn, they've got to have a guy who's going to be reliable on the boards. Well, and there's also this factor of when they lose guys, you know, you juxtaposed against who they played last night, Memphis, who's got a ton of guys on low contracts. So you've got this just inordinate amount of depth because you have just one after another guy that outperforms his number, whatever he gets paid. He outperforms the number. On their team, by virtue of having the stars, you're not going to have the debt.

And so when you do lose guys, it's immense. So the Joe Harris loss is immense, even not having Aldridge, you know, available. immense. Like, they don't have, they start D'Andre Bembrey. Okay. No offense to D'Andre Bembrey. He is not a starter in the NBA. And he is certainly not a starter for a good team. And, but that's what you're down to. You know what I mean? When, when you lose some guys and you only have now Kyrie, I suppose he's going to play in half the games, I read this story this morning. You're going to love this, Kev. I read this story this morning. about Kyrie Irving. This was a this was a this one was a little bit different because it wasn't talking about Kyrie coming back in the sense of what he's going to bring to the table with the Brooklyn debts and how this is going to work. It was about the fact that Kyrie Irving is going to be the first part-time player since the

1960s. Okay, so here you go. Storytime for the mismatch listeners. Terry Dissinger played for the 1962, Chicago Zephyrs, and he balanced basketball and books. Well, I think that's what Kyrie's doing, too, so maybe they aren't in a different situation. It feels like Kyrie's balancing basketball of books. He spent his first semester studying in Indiana on

weekdays and playing for the Zephyrs on the weekends. One time after class, I left Purdue at 4 p.m., taped my ankles in a cab, and played that night in San Francisco. He averaged 25 and a half points, eight rebounds, and three assists, and made the All-Star team. So there you go. It was his name, Terry Dissinger. There you go. Welcome to the club, Kyrie.

Yeah. You know, I, I, first, first off, I can't wait to watch Kyrie play basketball. I'm excited to watch him play. I'm also going to be very interested to see what type of conditioning he's in. He looks skinny in some of his Instagram posts. And I imagine he's not like still 100% basketball conditioning. With him, Chris, I wonder for Brooklyn how, like there's been some of the trade rumors out there in the last month and a half, two months. I wonder how seriously they would be open to trading him,

like how serious they would actually be. Or if they want to bank on Eric Adams, the new mayor of New York, changing the rule, or even just paying a fine come playoff time by having a way. Trading who? Kyrie. Nobody's trading for him?

I mean, is there at least one team out there that in a state that doesn't require vaccination? No, you don't think so. No, because it's not just the vaccination concern. it's everything else. It's everything else too. He just might not play basketball for you.

He might say, you know. I'm just curious. Just curious. Here, let me answer your curiosity. No. How about Dallas? What are you talking about it? You pay him a fortune.

Dallas is probably the only team, right? I don't think Dallas is trading for him. Isn't that crazy? Like, that's something else. Kyrie Irving. Kyrie Irving, nobody wants him. One of the teams that is not having, said drama is the Chicago Bulls.

My God, since we last spoke, Kevin, DeRosen has been the closer. And this is the Demar de Rosen leading the Bulls, hitting game winners. I mean, stop the season today. He's probably first team all NBA, Kevin. Oh, he is 100%. 100% first team all NBA, yes.

First team, all NBA. And being the best player on a team and the best closer on a team that is now the number one seed in the Eastern Conference is one of the amazing stories of the season that we have been chronicling throughout. But it feels like, you know, some of these stories that Peter out will see what happens. Right. Like we talked up the wizards and it was like, hey, the wizards looking good. And they've been, you know, had a good one last night. But then they really came back to Earth very, very quickly after their best start in 40 years. Who knows what the plight of the Grizzlies would be. We might look back on our conversation today and there and there was foolishness. Who knows? But I know this. We start off the season being impressed by the Bulls. And I swear to God, every friggin' time we come on the air, the story gets better. Like, I mean, you keep waiting for like, okay, this has been storybook stuff with putting a team together that's never played together before, having DeMarrozen, which that signing was widely criticized. And he is probably the most beat up player in the entire NBA by the analytics nerds over the last five years.

Westbrook, maybe more so. But people, there's a lot of people that, you know, have their feelings about Westbrook, that are not necessarily have to be analytic-based. But DeMarter Rosen was kind of always held up as, here's a guy that puts up numbers, but he's overrated because he doesn't take threes. And to see this assent into what he has become and the fact that the league,

like in many ways came back around to him. With all these teams trying to stop you from going to the rim and shooting threes, guys like him, guys like Chris Paul become these really deadly weapons because of their ability to make shots everywhere and not just, it's almost like it's unconventional now and it plays to their benefit. Yeah, I mean, with the Rosen, some of the criticisms of him taking mid-range jumpers was unfounded the last handful of years in San Antonio, though. And we've talked about this 100 times.

In San Antonio, he became one of the league's most efficient isolation scores. One of the league's best pick and roll shot creators. He improved as a passer over his years in San Antonio after his final year in Toronto, making some progress as a passer. De Rosen got better each year into his 30s while he's hidden in Texas. And now he's in a situation with the best, most perfect surrounding pieces. to have. And not only that, like, Caruso's been out with a foot injury. Ball just got back on Monday night for the first time in a while. And he's doing that despite some absences. It's,

it's truly remarkable what DeRosen's doing. He's undoubtedly first team all NBA thus far this season. He undoubtedly is a guy that belongs in the big pile of guys who could finish in the top five for MVP voting. He's not going to win it. But he, like, he's that level right now for the Bulls. It's only to put that into perspective. And with this, team, man. Like you said, every time we're talking about, we've been pretty high on them. I think even before the season, more than most people, like we said, if they sacrifice on offense, they'll be great. If they, if they are better defensively than we think, they could be really great. And they are better defensively than anybody thought. I think even

better than they thought. But with DeRosen and this squad, man, they, they check all the championship chip boxes, except for the lack of Patrick Williams or a guy who might be more developed that could be out there on the trade market, a la Jeremy Grant. To me, Chicago is a team in the position that they're in, Chris, with DeRosen playing at this level, Levine playing at this level, ball coming back, Caruso coming back, Vuccivich playing as well as he is, the depth they have. This team should be going all in. Your window is wide open now. Go forward all. Well, and you have not only Patrick Williams being out, but now recently they've lost Javante Green, who's actually been a very good role player for them.

So last night, they've got to plug and play Derek Jones Jr. And it's kind of exactly what you want out of that spot, right, which is 20 minutes, seven points, five rebounds, no crappy shots, no, right? Just play your role. Play your role. Accept your role, embrace the role. They all do it. They all do.

Yes, and like you're not coming in there, taking a bunch of wild stuff, and doing a lot of extra stuff. They have been able to, they've been able to fit. Now, I did have some questions. I don't want to act like I didn't have questions about them going into the season, but as I said, everybody did, Chris, especially their defense. Everybody did. They're a very difficult team to analyze because it was just an unknown. Just an unknown.

I thought there were going to be a playoff team, but I'd know. never thought they could be the number one seed. I'll admit that. Absolutely. Like on paper, like I said, you know, before the season, the question was, well, are these guys going to play together? Or is it going to be taking turns, De Rosen's turn, Levine's turn, Lonzo's turn. Well, no, they're all playing together and they're all sacrificing. They're all doing the little things. Levine's playing hard on defense. DeRosen's setting screens, you know, like they're screening for each other. They're cutting. They're moving. This is a, this is really a quintessential Billy Donovan offense. This is what he had, you know, in some ways at Florida. It's a hybrid type of system with the ball movement

and the off ball movement with players cutting and moving. Like Billy Donovan, off the top of my head, there's a number of head coach, you know, coach of the year candidates. He's right up there, man. With him making these guys buy in, he deserves some credit too. It's not easy to do what he's done. No, not at all. It's not easy to take a team with Zach Levine, DeMarine, DeMarerosen, and Vucevich, and turned it into a great defense. Yeah. I don't care who you got. You can give all the credit you want to Lanzo and Caruso. I mean, that is a team buy-in. That's the only way you pull that off is getting a full-team buy-in. And, you know, another part of the coach is to accentuate the talents of these guys. Put them in the best position to be their best selves.

and you get credit if you're Billy Donovan for DeMarter Rosen being talked about on our show as a all NBA first team player. Wow. Yeah, something else. He's been in the league a long-ass time. We hadn't been talking about DeMarter Rosen being first team all NBA. And now he's on a new team. I mean, Donovan gets some credit for that, for sure. No doubt about it, man.

Like, he's, I remember a couple weeks ago when I had William, Lou and Blake Murphy on the Void pod, Will Lou had mentioned how with De Rosen, just the work ethic. And I mean, it made me think about I didn't mention this on that pod, but a couple years ago, first year with the ringer, I think the 16-17 season, I talked to DeRosen's trainer

about like the amount of work he puts into his footwork, you know, to become the mid-range savant that he is, how much he's watched Kobe over the years. And Chris Farr, as his trainer, they worked together for years based out of L.A. and like the Rosen is just one of those basketball junkies. He really is. And I think with a guy like that, the reason why the improvement continued happening in San Antonio

and why it continues happening now with Chicago at age 32 is just because he's one of those guys that genuinely loves the game of basketball and he loves the process of improving away from the court. And I think that's why he's gotten better so much over the years. Why with him? he's sacrificing now. He's in this position. He's willing to accept

and do the things that he needs to do on a night-to-night basis. So it's all about what's happening between the ears with the Mardotero's like that's the secret

to his success here in his entire career and what's happening now because it's unusual to see somebody keep getting better the way he has. And it's all about

what's happening. And I was always higher on him than my peers simply because of... He's a throwback. Well, not just a throwback. I mean,

you know I did shows with Tony and Allen every week for a long, long time. And when he would come up on list where people were like downing him, or they would say the most overrated players or like the highest pay player, like he would always be just like, what, what are these people talking about? Like go out and try to guard this guy. Like, DeMarjorosen is a bucket.

Like the guy, like if you talk to players, there is no underrating DeMarterosa. There never has been. There never has been. There was always a chasm between talking to the players in the league and talking to media about that player. 100%. And statistically, he has improved, though. How much of that is, like, you alluded to it earlier?

Like, the game is allowing more mid-range shots now, but percentage-wise, he shoots a much higher percentage on mid-range shots now than he did during some of those prime years in Toronto. Is that like player development that happened? and or is it just the nature of the game where he's getting and taking smarter shots, he's passing better too. I think it's all of it together. Yeah, yeah.

It's probably a combination of all of it. Luca Dodgich is back. He's back. Everybody has fallen in love with and loved, and you predicted that people would start to get down on Luca this year. They started to talking about his weight coming into camp. Obviously, he's been hurt for a while. And you talked about, you know, they're one of those teams right now that's hovering around 500.

And last year, they had piled up a bunch of wins at the beginning of the season. You know, when they have been fully healthy, which has been a hard thing for them to achieve, they have been able, they've shown in the past, at least under Rick Carlisle, who knows under Jason Kidd, that they can throw together a pretty good streak. And one of the things you wrote about this week was Jaila Brunson and kind of how they can use him and how he could possibly be ideal next to Luca and unlock some stuff for Dallas that has not been completely unlocked and turn them into a different team than they have been so far, right? Yeah, I mean, with Brunson, 10 games, Luca was out over three week. period. Dallas was five and five, nothing special. But Brunson average 21 points on 59% true shooting, seven assists, only two turnovers. He looks fantastic. And Jason Kidd rightfully is keeping

him in the starting lineup. He's bumped Tim Hardaway Jr. out of the starting five. And now you have Luca and Brunson starting together. And that has some defensive concerns, right? I mean, I think there's real defensive concerns there. But I made the point in my Monday column for the ringer, with Brunson, they need to continue feeding him in the same way that they did minus Luca because this guy, he's a mid-range bucket like we just talked about with DeRosene. He's not like an elite guy,

but he shoots 50% on dribble jumper twos, 50% on floaters. He's a great passer from that mid-range area as well, finding lob threats, kicking out to shooters. And you think about before the season, there is the stuff out there about Dallas was seeking another ball handler. Well, they have a guy on their team in Brunson that can do that for you.

And the cohesion with him and Luca can be as great as Luca wants it to be. If Luca is willing to buy in off ball like he did while he was playing for Real Madrid with more cutting, more activity, more relocating, more screening, just more general energy. If he invest that into offense, if he invest that into defense like we've seen from him, Luca was pretty good on defense at times the last two years. This year he has not been. If Luca can have the ball on his hands less, I think it can make him a more dynamic overall player

in all areas of the game as a result of Brunson's emergence. So I hope they invest in that, and I hope Luca more than anybody else accepts and embraces that. I thought it was fascinating. One of the things you wrote in the article was, does he want to be Curry or does he want to be hardened? In terms of the offball activity, the movement. It's like not a shot or he's not a shooter like Steph, but the movement.

No, but I thought it was a great example because when you think about the way Golden State functions and you think about Curry and how he has this gravity simply because of having to pay him mind no matter where he is. He doesn't have to have the ball in his hands in order to achieve this inordinate amount of attention. You know what I mean? And the same goes, right? If you become a statue and you're just not part of it when you don't have the ball in your hands, well, now that you are of no benefit to your teammates.

You don't make anything any easier on your teammates. Now they've just got to go do it themselves. You know what I mean? Because we're playing one-on-one basketball in many cases, or we're playing four-on-four, and somebody's just paying you mind 35 feet away from the, basket, you know. I got to tell you a hilarious story. So when you came out with that article, they should probably endorse me now that I'm going to mention this. But I have this app called Pocket. Pocket. Oh, yeah, I've heard of that app. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard of it. So I use this a

lot because there's a lot of articles that come out that I want to read. But I simply, I know I I'm not going to get around to it or I don't have time. Well, you can, like, I save it to pocket, whatever. And then if you pull up the article, once you've got it saved, sometimes I'll read through them if I've got time. Other times I'll be in the car and there's a little headphone link on the article. So I can just press headphone and it'll read it to me. Oh, that's cool.

That's the next feature. Yeah. While I'm in the car. This was the case when you came out with your article. I was about to get in the car, and I was like, well, hell, let me just, I can listen to it so I know what he said in the article. But it is like a computer that like reads it, right? So it's like, the ringer, Kevin O'Connor. And then it'll have the date.

It'll be like, the reason the Dallas Maverick needs to unlock Taylor's Front. But anyway, the point of this story is I almost drove off the friggin road because there was Nothing funnier than in the, I'm listening to this article. I can't even say it without laughing. I almost roll out the road, no lie. The lady, whoever the voice is, is reading the article, and I can't remember the exact line, but I believe this is the exact line. And I was like, you said, hold on now. Hold on.

Is that... Now, I'm going to let you... I don't have the article pulled up right in front of me. But is that an actual line? Yeah. In the article? Yeah, yeah. There is nothing funnier than hearing a computer voice like...

But that didn't work because Dennis Smith Jr. is not good. Yeah, yeah. I wrote that line on. I was like, I'm just going to keep this simple. He just wasn't good. Because Dennis Smith Jr. That didn't work because Dennis Smith Jr. is not good.

Oh, but it was the best. Maybe my favorite pocket moment. Listening to that. That should be an advertiser for that thing. Dennis Smith Jr. is not good. How often do you do that, Chris? How often do you listen to articles? I would say maybe once a week.

Okay. Probably. I mean, I'm pretty good about trying to get back and reading them. And certainly, but if it's like a week that's like super busy, there's a bunch of games that I'm either going to be at at night or something, or something that happens while I'm doing something else, whether I'm recording or whatever, then I just know, I don't know, that thing, I can save it. I save it and then I usually will read it later, but everyone's. or a while, dependent upon, if something comes out like yours did, I was about to get in the car, and I saw the link go up, and I was like, oh, hell, I'll just listen to this right now. I was howling. Absolutely howling. I'm like, is that really a line in that article? It sure was.

Is this computer lady got her own opinions? Maybe she's interjecting her own opinion in this. We talked about one of the great. stories, which was the Bulls a little while ago. One of the disappointing stories, at least almost through halfway through the season, is Atlanta. And there are last night where I did not feel like there was widespread celebration by any means of a 56.9 for Trey Young.

Not in the way that typically if a guy drops 56, especially an All-Star drops 56, it is a big deal. Now, they lost the game, and that could play a part in it, but 56 is a huge number, and I believe the most anybody scored in a game this year up to this point. I don't think anybody else has had, they haven't had 56 this year, but Atlanta lost, and I do think it speaks to kind of the struggle that it has been for Atlanta coming off that Eastern Conference finals appearance that come into this year, and a microcosm of that is they're playing a Blazers team that doesn't have C.J. That doesn't have Damian Lillard.

And Trey Young scores 56, and that's not a win. Now, I want to alert everybody to Anthony Simon's postgame last night. You can have the opportunity if you'd get a chance today. Go and watch the, it's on the Portland Trailblazers Twitter feed, and it's beautiful. Amphrey Simon's had 43 points last night. And he is being interviewed after the game. And the sideline reporter is unaware of what he's talking about. And she's like, Anthony, really your night, nine threes.

Team comes over, drenches him in water, whatever else. And he goes, this doesn't, the credit doesn't go to me. And that wasn't, that wasn't all my doing. And she's like, and then they dump him with water, whatever. And then she comes back and she's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. stop being humble, nine for 15 for three, when did you know you had it going, whatever? And it's this moment where I'm alerting you to go watch this.

He says that wasn't me out there. That was my grandpa. My grandpa died of cancer last night. And he said, and he was, you know, basically he goes on and says he was a guy that, I'm getting chills talking about it. he goes, and then the reporter says, you know, how much did you think about him? He said, I thought about him the entire game. I promise you, that was not me doing that time.

That was my grandpa. I thought about him the whole game. And I thought about how he used to call me and yell about stuff or be so proud of me. And he would have wanted me to play tonight. So he dedicated this game that he had last night to his grandpa. And obviously nobody was aware that this had happened. he had kind of kept it to himself. And then he says this and he's dedicating this performance to his grandfather who he says,

like, that's what happened to me tonight, you know. And it was just, it is, it is as heartwarming, you know, chill rendering as you will see a video this year. I don't think that it became like super, super viral by any means. But I would alert everybody, go check it out. because as you watch his, he's doing it on the floor after the game, after he's had 43 points and kind of led them to victory and had not, I think he was 9 to 15 from 3. I mean, just this out-of-body experience and him talking about his grandfather and losing him

and how he would have wanted him to play was just, it was awesome. It's sometimes, it's the people's story sometimes, Kev, that are involved in this that become ultra, those become the real memories. Absolutely. I mean, I can't imagine what it was like, you know, being a young Blazers fan watching that game. Yeah, you know, like, well, growing up, I always stuck around to watch post game, you know, and you see that after the performance, you see you're on a high as a fan,

and then you find out the high that he's on, you know, in terms of like he felt a special moment, you know, a connection with his grandfather. I mean, and also, like, it's another example. you never know what anybody's going through you know you never know what anybody's going through and on a night like that for anthony simons i'm glad he and you know his loved ones probably all them got to feel amazing for a night like what a tribute you know what a tribute seriously i know and yeah it's uh he he was sensational in that game i did not know that about his grandpa i didn't see that wow that's something else really cool story and i would encourage everybody just for like a

heartwarming moment from the NBA season that you might miss. Go check that out because it's not what you typically see on any given night. All right, let's rapid fire some other things that we have not spoken about before we get out of here. Jeremy Grant and a trade, you had mentioned this in your article. You had piggybacked on this. Shams had said there's a bunch of teams that are calling about Jeremy Grant, there was interest from the Lakers, but they may not have enough with Horton Tucker and a pick or whatever.

They don't have enough. Yeah. They don't have enough, but there's a bunch of teams that would be interested in Jeremy Grant, and you spoke about how Kate Cunningham has benefited from him being out, etc., etc. Sadiq Bay. Seneke Bay has benefited a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sadiq Bay. One of the things I do wonder, though, Kev, is Jeremy Grant was an outstanding role player, right? and that's what he's best suited to be. He's not best suited to be your number one, probably not your number two option, you know. In retrospect, it probably would have been better to keep him,

just go ahead and keep him in Denver and pay him than what ended up happening with Michael Porter Jr., but that's neither here and there. With Jeremy Grant, one of the things I would worry about is after you do become the number one option, scoring 20-something points a game on a race, team, can you go back to just being a guy, a role player on a good team, right?

Like there's stars and there's role players. He's not a star. He's not. He's not a star. But can he be a great role player? And is he going to be fine with that after averaging 20 plus points per game? I mean, that's up to him. We don't know the answer to that.

If I were Jeremy Grant, I would think to myself, I could be the best number three in the league. I could be the best number four in the league. You know, the best third player, the best fourth player. And I think with Jeremy Grant, that's the way he needs to be viewed. If you're, you know, any of the top teams that have any hopes of contending or even like a young up-and-coming Memphis team, if you think about what's Jeremy Grant behind John Morant and Desmond Bain on the totem pole, that is a really high-level player when he's asked to hit spot-up threes to cut to the rim, to play hard on defense, to rebound. And sometimes when he has an advantageous matchup, that's when he goes to work as a score. That version of Jeremy Grant,

to me, is a guy that could swing, you know, the championship race in favor of the team that acquires him if he, as you rightfully are asking, says to himself, am I willing to do this? Am I willing to embrace this? And if he does, if the answers yes to those questions, Jeremy Grant could be the guy that really changes things for a franchise out there when it comes playoff time. Yeah, because everybody, that's one of the grand problems with putting together talent is the buy-in and the sacrifice. Absolutely. That has to take place, right? And he didn't want to do that.

That's why he left Denver. And he went to Detroit and he found out that he can do more. I mean, he can do more. Like, we're not talking about him like he needs to go back. to averaging, I don't know, 12 points per game. It's not like that with Jeremy Grant anymore. He can do more. It's a hybrid of the two roles.

Something in the middle, like a happy medium that could result in I think a pretty ridiculous return for whatever team ends up acquiring him. A couple more stories, one good one, one bad one. The good one is that Clay Thompson is coming back and it sounds like he's going to come back

this upcoming weekend. So that's great. Let's go. This was not hold down the fort until you get Clay Thompson back. This was, we can be extra cautious because we got the best record in the entire league before we bring back Clay Thompson. And now Clay Thompson is going to make his debut. I saw this thing the other day.

I don't know if you've seen this meme going around about what teams guys were on the last time Clay Thompson played in a basketball game. game and it just flored me. Like it was like, you know, Kauai Leonard was playing for the Raptors. And it was like all the, like, Russell Westbrook was playing for this team. Chris Paul was playing for this. And you think that it,

it feels even longer ago than it has been, if that's possible. I mean, it feels like a different lifetime just because things change so dramatically in the NBA. I mean, it does feel like a long-ass time ago that Kauai was playing for the Raptors. And just that one, just forget all the others. But just think about that. And the fact that that's the last time Clay Thompson was playing basketball in an NBA basketball game.

That those line up is super wild. The guy has had a hellacious amount of rehab over the course of the last two years. that video that surfaced last week of him making like a billion threes in a row it's like oh surprise surprise

Clay Thompson's still a bucket but I mean you gotta feel amazing if you're the Warriors because never I think even at their wildest dreams would they have been the number one team

in the Western Conference and then getting Clay Thompson back you know I think it was just being good shape and then get Clay Thompson back and then hit a big run, right? Because we're going to improve so greatly. But my God, if they improve

greatly from what they've been so far, that is scary. I'm just more than anything else. I could put aside the basketball implications. I was thinking last night about how I was in the arena for that Game 6 Raptors Warriors when he did Tier's ACL

and he walks off the court and then he comes back on. I'm always going to remember just the sound of the crowd and the feeling of the crowd when Clay walked back onto the court to hit two free throws before that Warriors filed to get him out of the game. And there was just

like it was such a low to such an immediate high because for a moment you're like, oh, he's back. For a moment you felt like he's back and then he was gone. He's been gone for over two years now. And one of the players that really just inspires so much joy with the way he plays,

I'm just excited for him to be back for real. You know, for the first shot, he's going to hit in that stadium, it's going to be special, man. I'm just, I can't wait to watch Clay Thompson play basketball. So they're saying it's against Cleveland on Sunday night. I cannot fathom the ovation he is going to get. It's going to be something else. It's going to be amazing.

I'm fired up. And we'll be able to talk more about that on Friday. We have also had since we last spoke, the Christian Wood, Kevin Porter, Bess. I'm not, I'm not going to get into this deeply. everybody knows how I feel about tanking and the concerns that I raised about the rockets earlier this season. You were right, Chris. You were right. I mean, it's a catastrophe and it's not good for anybody.

And I will say on the porter front, you know, I do all that draft stuff. and I've never never in my career have I had a player like Porter Jr. I'll tell you, I loved his tapes. I mean, I loved him.

I was like, this guy has so much more talent than everybody that's ranked above him. There's probably mismatch episodes of me talking about this. Kid from USC, I know he couldn't make it through his year at USC even

without discipline. But I love the tape so much and I was like, man, if you're trying to hit a home run, you know, this guy is too low on draft boards. And I called the round to, I mean, it was double digit. A lot of people, coaches, scouting directors, GMs, team presidents, you name it.

People that have come in contact with over the last 20 years. And I have never had a player like him, ever, Kevin. I tried to get all of them, any of them, to vote. And to a man every one of them told me do not do it Chris don't do it do not put him on a list don't I'm telling you don't do it and I was like on your guys who won't fail list right this guy is crazy talented man this guy and they're like don't like this kid there are a million red flags and hopefully he could get out of his own way but in terms of safe bets there is nothing further

And obviously, you know, Cleaver gave up on him for a box of nothing. And now you've got the issues. I hope this kid can get out of his own way. But it's been a concern. You know what I mean? I will tell you, that's all I'll say. Like since the draft stuff, you know, the anger issues that Kevin deals with have been very pronounced. Well reported on for a couple years now.

Yeah, and teams were terrified of it then, and obviously he's on team number two. He needs to be in a winning environment. That's his only chance to me. With a veteran presence. Yeah. I mean, I know John Lucas is supposed to be the guy that's the soothsayer and can save you, but, like, John Lucas is, yes, great guy, very respected guy, been through his own, a battle his own demons, and has come out on the other side and he's helped a myriad of players. But John Lucas is not a peer.

He's a coach, not a teammate. He's not a teammate. He's not a teammate, you know? And how about that story of a young player yelling at Christian Wood in the locker room? You're a veteran. You're supposed to be setting an example. Like, oh my God.

What a catastrophe. I can't imagine there are many teams that would want Kevin Porter Jr. but Christian Wood, if Houston did want to move off of him, with still a couple years left on his contract, only 26 years old, all the skills that he has. Houston could move off of Wood if they wanted to. And I mean, he could offer something. Even for Christian Wood, it could be good for him.

Like when he signed with Houston, the pitch was, you're going to be screening for James Arden. And that did not happen for more than a handful of games. It made sense with Hardin. It does not make sense with this current roster for Wood or for the Rocket. It's also great for him when Jalen Green was out. And I know you highlighted Jalen Green in your article. Jalen Green's development as a player makes the team worse.

Now, right now. Because the investment you're putting into him. That's right. He's a minus, I mean, his net rating is like minus 19. Yeah, I mean.

That's terrible, Kevin. No, they don't have. Their rating's tough to look at, though, because he has been much better lately. Granted he wasn't great. How about we just look at wins and losses?

Jalen Green was. out and they were competitive and now Jaylor Green's back and they can't win shit. I don't know how much causation there is there though. That's my only point. Like he ever since he got back with injury aside from his game against Philly last night, he's been on fire.

Individually. The team has been failed. Oh yeah. I mean the team, I don't know what that, what that win streak was for Houston. I really don't. They played guys that are like reasonable basketball players and everybody thinks they suck and so they were able to catch teams.

I mean, Houston, it's kind of funny. They have some players. Eric Gordon could help a contender, too. Like I mentioned with Jeremy Grant, a team should be going for Eric Gordon as well. There's some guys out there that can help a contending team. Eric Gordon's one of them. Last thing before we get out of here, Becky Hammond is going to the WNBA to coach the Aces. Becky Hammond had come up many times as a possible head coach in the NBA.

And this is always one of those subjects that brings out. In many cases, the worst of people. But one of the things we have learned, and I will tell you for personal experience, is that when people say, well, how would guys act towards a female coach? How would guys react to a female coach? Becky Hammett is one of the most respected assistant coaches in the NBA. And I have had the pleasure of covering two in the last two years. One of the things that everybody needs to understand about NBA players

and any basketball player, for that matter, they do not care where you come, from they don't care what your gender is they don't care what your sexuality is they don't care about any of that you know what they care about can you make me better are you prepared and can you make me better that is the truth and last year one of the most beloved people two years ago one of those beloved people i've ever seen come through Memphis in terms of the players was nile ivy now ivy now ivey left and became the head coach at Notre Dame, which was just an amazing opportunity, right, to be the women's college basketball coach there.

Her son is the kid at Purdue. And Jane and Ivy, sophomore. Yeah, yeah, and he's great. But John Morant and the rest of that team absolutely swore by her and will forever. They swore by her in a way that you don't always see with players and assistance. Right now, there is an assistant coach for the Grizzies,

Sonia Raymond, who was... From MIT? Head basketball coach. Yeah, at MIT. And it's been part of the Sloan Conference, etc., etc. Again, well-respected, beloved by the players. That's what players care about. Can you help me? Like, can you scout these teams?

Can you help me with film? Can you help me become the player that I want to become, maximize myself. And the Grizzlies have nailed it twice in a row with female assistance. And I will just say that it will be a matter of time. I wish Becky Hammond would have gotten an opportunity in the NBA. It will be a matter of time. It will not be weird to see a female head coach on the sidelines.

I do not blink in five to 10 years because I would just tell you for personal experience, being around two different female assistant coaches, they are every bit as respected, qualified, etc., as their male assistant coach peers. Absolutely. And I think it'll be a matter of time. I do. I mean, I have been, I guess this all became something that is much more common

in the last few years. And I think we all thought Becky Hammond would end up because, thought that she would just be pop successor. That's what I always thought. But I guess she's like, you know what? This dude ain't retiring. It's not coach forever. I'm getting out of it.

I always thought she was going to be the successor for him that he would just turn it over. To her in San Antonio. But yes, you figured this dude ain't going anywhere. Go be the coach of the aces. it's, well, I mean, it's an outstanding opportunity for her, of course, and she can always make the jump back to the NBA some number of years from now if she wanted to. But in the meantime, as you said, Chris, there are, I mean, not just on Memphis, but a wide number of teams that have assistant coaches who are a woman that over the course of time,

they will become serious candidates like Becky Hammond was. Kevin, it is always a pleasure. Hope everybody had a good new year. And thanks for catching us in 2022. Hopefully this would be a great year for us. Thanks to our producer, Jesse Lopez as always. And Kev, I'll talk to you on Friday. I'm looking forward to it, Chris.

Have a good week, everybody.