The Mismatch - The Hawks’ and Timberwolves’ Midseason Coaching Changes Have Paid Off. Plus: The Trade Deadline Approaches and KOC’s 2021 Draft Guide Drops.

Episode Date: March 19, 2021

Verno and KOC dive into the recent success of the Hawks and Timberwolves, who both replaced their head coaches midseason, and how a coach can unlock players’ talents and effort (6:52). Then they wonder whether the Pelicans will ever figure it out with Steven Adams and Eric Bledsoe, who simply aren’t setting the example needed from veterans (24:23), and whether Sacramento will let go of any of its players at the trade deadline (45:56). And at last they take a look at the first iteration of KOC’s 2021 NBA Draft Guide as the first round of March Madness commences (51:54). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Baseball season is right around the corner, and Jake Mintz and Jordan Schusterman will serve as your guides to the good, the bad, and the utterly bizarre corners of the baseball world on baseball barbecue. In the run-up to the season, they'll dive into the rabbit hole on some of their favorite fascinations, from the home run derby to baseball brawls and more. Once the MLB season returns, they'll break down the latest news and developments with their trademark wit and irreverence. Check out baseball barbecue on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mishmatch. I'm Chris Vernon, joining me as he does every Friday from the round. ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Campor, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Connell Kevin O'Kinness, Kevoh.

Burdow! What's up? Well, we have made it to Friday. In one week's time, we will be doing a show talking about the trade deadline and everything that happened with it. We will talk a little bit about that today, but we're also going to get to all the news and notes that we need to get to. Before we get to anything, I do want to tell you, I do want to tell you a funny story. So the other day, I was having, I just wasn't having all that great of a day. And I went down and I was about to go to the Grizzlies Heat game that night, which was a late start because the heat were playing on the second half of a back to back.

And before I went, I went to the mailbox and I routinely get things in the mail, especially in this last year since we've been in quarantine, I've talked about how I'm a big collector of things. I'm constantly in eBay auctions, etc. I have said in the past that there have been people that I did not know that I was buying from somebody that would know who I am. And

the one guy sent me the Brooke Lopez card in addition to what I had bought because because of things I had said on the show and whatever else. So there I am and I open up this

envelope. And I had bought in an auction a 1972 Gayle Sayers. The reason I did it was because I was just I was on a vintage kick and like cards that I thought looked really cool. I was just buying them if I saw them

what I thought was cheap in an auction. So I grabbed it. I opened it up and there is a full like letter in the package. And I'm like, what in the world? Because usually it's just like, you know, some packaging and then

whatever card you got on eBay, right? So I open it up. It's this guy named Rod, and Rod trains basketball players in Bloomington, Indiana, and works at two different gyms, one of which is an hour away from where he is. He's a huge mismatch fan and says, so I listen to you guys on this commute all the time. And he said, and I need to thank you because you guys were talking about Talen Horton-Tuckers, in the preseason, I went and bought a ton of these for cheap. I flipped them and made a small fortune. And I was like, wait, what?

Like, we're giving financial advice here. So he ends up making it. And so he says, you know, thanks so much for what you guys do, blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, because you help me out so much on the Taylon Horton Tucker thing, he sends me a Zeebo rookie and a Brandon Clark rookie. in the package with it. So shout out to Rod. It Bloomington, Indiana.

He works with basketball players at gyms. He has this long commute where he drives and listens to us. And it was very, very strange. What a strange circumstance. You never know, right, who you're buying from on eBay. And I wasn't even buying a basketball car. I bought a 1972 sales sayers. That Brian Clark, Chris.

That's a good one. That's a good one to have. I love Bernie Clark. Yeah. It is. But yeah, super cool. And it was nice to, uh, it was certainly nice to get that. And he made my day.

Hopefully, hopefully, uh, you didn't invest too much into Killian Hayes and you're panicking right now. No, no. Don't get about Killian Hayes. There's not,

there was, lucky for you, there wasn't enough cards of him. When you were talking about the only thing that was out there, those like, you know, college cards. Yeah.

And those ones don't have as much value, apparently. No, as soon as the ones in the uniforms, come out, those ones are dead. Exactly. You know what I mean? You kind of see by the way, if you've got one of those, if you've got one of those lamellos, move it,

move it. Oh, yeah. No, you know, because now the Hornets ones are out. And that's what the, yeah, you mean, yeah, I'm saying if you've got one of those, yeah, yeah, where he's wearing like the uniform prior to. Definitely. No, no, you know, it's kind of funny. Just one

quick little thought there. Like, there are not many NBA podcast that focus on like fantasy basketball or NBA podcast focus on top shot there are a couple now there's you know coming up you know obviously we have sports cards nonsense and our not our network here yeah it's like you know stuff that's discussed on any NBA pod can be used as advice you know it's not specifically for sure cards or whatever like who are the risers who are the followers you know who's going to be have a breakout year and all that all that stuff can be you know used to inform decisions absolutely between us you know and between others and then we also made

100,000 air probably that listens to us. A guy named Darko. Oh, yeah. Tweet us. He got involved with Top Shot because he heard us talking about it long ago. And he got the number one. The number one serial number of LeBron James and sent it to us. He's got it listed for 200 grand.

And I was like, you have got to be kidding me. That's amazing. We're making people money here, Kevin. Should we change this from like, should we change the mismatch from the sports column to finance? Because I feel like, eat your heart out, Jim Kramer. It's so funny. We're making people money over here. It's so funny.

You sell that, LeBron. You can pay for your kids' college education or you can get a Tesla. Yeah. Unbelievable, man. So we've had people, you know, make money in the card. That's funny. On that side, it also, we had our first huge top shot guy. I mean, the number one, LeBron, you got to be kidding me.

That's wild. That's wild. I was just about if I opened up a pack and that happened. Holy mackerel. All right, let's get to what happened last night. The two biggest stories of the night, I think, are about teams that made mid-season coaching changes. and the results have been fantastic.

I think that if you were to ask Hawks fans and you were to ask Timberwolves fans, the opinion can never get higher of what Chris Finch has done, making Minnesota more competitive and infinitely more watchable and what has happened in Atlanta since they made the move from Lloyd Pierce

to Nate McMillan, Atlanta has flown up the standings to all the way to where they would be in a four or five game as of this morning. Yeah. Now, this stuff can change, as we know, within a day's time. But at least for today, as we're doing this, they get another win last night. I know it was against Oklahoma City, but a win's a win. And they're piling up wins recently, especially since that coaching change. and then on the other side, the Timberwolves thing, which is highlighted by this major breakout game for Anthony Edwards.

He has had big highlights, big dunks, he's had some big games, but nothing like the 42 he dropped on the road against the hottest team in the NBA. And so let's talk first about Edwards, the T-Wolves, and kind of how. You know, we said on Tuesday they could really play spoiler down the stretch for a lot of teams with playoff dreams because they're pretty well out of it. But, I mean, the product is just, it really is night and day, Kevin. You know what? I think, you know, with Anthony Edwards, this could very well be a midseason breakout that we see from from rookies quite often. Like the mellow ever since being named a starter has been, you know, 27 and 6. Edwards ever since Finch has been hired has been much, much better.

And I think when I watch Minnesota, the main takeaway that I have, Chris, is that it just feels like there's definition with offensive roles. Guys are getting more consistency out of their roles in terms of touches and terms of usage. And you're seeing Kat and Edwards especially get empowered. Kat getting more and more touches around the elbows, more and more post touches, more and more opportunities to facilitate. And Edwards, man, Chris, what he did last night, if we see that with any more consistency in the future, 40 plus points, hitting threes off the dribble, pull-ups from way deep, getting to the rim with ease, pulling up out of ISOs. It was crazy to see a guy his size with that quickness hit some of the shots that he did. Finch already seems to have this offense ready to go. And just one last thought. The last play call

towards the end of the game, it was six seconds left. Wolves have a two-point lead after timeout play. They get Juan, Wancho Hern and Gomez for a layup and one. And he was a decoy in the play and it worked out. I thought it was a brilliant play call to give Minnesota the four-point cushion before the free throws and really just ice the game. Finch seems to have a grapple on this offense and the talents of these players with those ATOs, those play calls, system, you know, regular offense, what you're running up and down the court, and just empowering and defining what the players are doing. And it shows what a difference a good coach can make.

Well, what a fascinating case study in a player and how much different. We talk so many times about opportunity and fit. And also in some cases, like, how are you used? How is that coach going to be able to unlock the best of you? Like, there's no question you can't watch, and I was watching, the Knicks last night, and watch Julius Randall and watch him have 17 freaking assists, 17 assists in the game and not sit there and go. my goodness, Tibido has gotten a different player out of this individual.

It's there, but is it unlocked? And I think we are seeing in mid-flow of this season, the Edwards thing, which I mean, look, I am guilty at the very beginning of the season. And I don't, you know, because I did get some of this blowback after Edwards has been good recently. They're like, oh, well, do you still think Anthony Edwards stinks? I said, hold on now. I never said this guy's stage. What I did say was it would be harder for me to have a worst first impression. And you watch them now and you watch him and you watch that team and there is a structure

and there is a purpose and there is a attention to detail. And there is also an accountability that was not there. I watched that team earlier this year and it just looked like anybody. could do whatever the hell they wanted to do whenever they wanted to do it. It's like, what is happening here? And I've actually seen this before within a team. I covered a team exactly like this. And no offense to Sidney Lowe, who's a peach of a guy.

But Sydney Lowe was the coach and the team stunk. And they replaced him with Hubey Brown, who is a clinician by trade. Yeah. You know, like he is. and it was an odd hire out of nowhere. Jerry West brings in Hubey Brown. By the second year, Hubey Brown won coached the year,

but that first year he walked in and he said, this is what I want you to pay attention to. And he was talking in a way that, this is way pre-analytic. He was saying, watch the point differential. Watch the point differential every day in that standings. And you will be able to tell if we're getting better because that number is going to go down.

and he gave people, like everything was so structured, and everything was, here's what this means, here's what this means, here's what we have to improve, here's what we're good at, and a very matter of fact about everything, and with a goal in mind, and that team improved greatly throughout that season, and it still wasn't that good of a team,

but then by the next year, they won 50 games. They created that structure, that system that that is necessary to thrive. You know, it happened during that losing season. The end of the Sydney Lowe thing was, I mean, look, I'm just a very young cub reporter, as they would say, running around with his microphone. And Jason Williams was the point guard on the team. And Jason Williams never came out in the locker room to talk, ever.

He would stay in the training room for an hour. were at like literally like so you just would never get audio ever and one night when it had gotten really bad jason williams walks out and stacy mitch is the girl's name who was the PR director at the time stacy's like jason's going to talk guys and everybody around the locker room was like what the hell yeah and everybody ran over to them and they put their microphones out right and uh they're like hey jason you know whoever asked the first question whatever and he leans into the microphones, he goes, we suck. We suck. We are the worst team in the league. Print it. Yeah. And everybody standing there like, and then he walked off. That was it.

That's wild. We suck. We suck. We're the worst team in the league. Print that. It's, that quote reminds me so much of, I was rereading that at the athletic story on the Hawks, you know, some of the source stuff behind the scenes about how players felt about Lloyd Pierce and I had forgotten about, you know, the athletic does their like player survey and a couple years back, a player like asked which coach would you not want to play for and a Hawks player anonymously answered, can I answer with the coach that I play for right now? Oh my God. Obviously that's not in front of microphones.

It's an anonymous thing. But that whole story, like that source stuff, the behind the scene stuff, it seems like Hawks players were feeling and saying things like that. Yeah. About peers at the time, and you can see the big difference with McMillan. And I'm not so sure with Atlanta, it's as much offensive system tweaks or anything like that. It just seems to be more of from the McMillan coaching standpoint, timing with timeouts,

calling timeouts when there's a 5-0 run, an 8-0 run and ending that. And players just seem to like him more and connect with him more. And sometimes that's what it's about. And also it can be your substitution patterns. I mean, sometimes it is some patterns too. That's another big one. Yeah. An awareness.

Offensive defensive pattern, you know, having guys on and off. And an awareness of who plays well together and how they play well. Now look, he raised Gallup. Nathan Knight, dude. Like he, Nathan Knight, first week of the season, I wrote a blurb on him like, whoa, like this guy, he looks pretty good. And then he never played until McMillan got hired as coach, as interim coach. And now he said three great games in a row. People were hitting me up last night about him because it was me.

that first week of the season where I said I had that moment where I'm like, who in the hell is Nate? His breakout was in Memphis. And I said, who the hell is this guy? Back in December. And he's done Zilch because he hasn't played Zilch. And now he

is and he looks good again. He was just gone. He raised Gallonari from the dead. They paid him a fortune in the offseason. Gallow looks like Gallo again. He looks just like Gallow. And last night, he got big Bogdanovich energy. for the first time.

I mean, he was, you know, look, he was giving him 20-something off the bench last night and was shooting fireballs. Now, again, you can discount it and say Oklahoma City,

but Oklahoma City's been competitive with a lot of things. And they're tough. Okay, she's tough. Yeah, they'll defend you. And so the Atlanta thing is mega fascinating because they have,

they have really gotten going. And I also think this impacts next week. kev we knew there was a lot of pressure on Travis slink when you spend that kind of money and you do the win now move in the offseason well then guess what you need to win now and you only get to use that one uh you know free pass by getting rid of your coach and blaming him now if i'm him i wake up this morning and i'm like the birds are chirping the world is beautiful i've got you know he's gone to the owner every day and said,

look, look, look, look, we do not have a player problem. We have a coaching problem, right? This is the way this stuff works. There's the blame game that goes on when a team is underachieving. And he now, I'm sure, feels intensely validated by that because they have been able to win since making that coaching change in a way that they had not before. But what I said it impacts next week, Kev.

like you don't move Jack Collins now. You know what I mean? Like that was really on the table and a... Still is on the table. I think you just play it out. I do. I think you play it out and then, yeah,

if it gets really expensive in the offseason, now you can make your decision. I know you risk losing him for nothing, but you might be able to pull off a sign-in trade too. You know, so I mean, there's something that can be done. It's not if we don't trade, by the deadline, we for sure lose them for nothing.

You can resign match. You can match. You can match. Yeah. Offer sheet. That's right. And good players are always movable. You know what I mean? Like sometimes it always feels like an overpay.

But guys, any, we know. When John Wall gets traded, it lets us know every contract can get traded. No matter. So like with John Collins, Chris, I mean, with Atlanta, that's going to be the question in the next week, as you said. What moves are available? What should they do? John Collins stuff has been floating around all season long with what could happen.

There are a number of teams. A lot of teams have interests in John Collins. So they have trade interests because they want to get ahead of free agency. But then those same teams could potentially pursue him during the off season two, either through trade and a sign and trade or just through outright signing him to an offer sheet. So for Atlanta, you know, despite the recent run, despite the recent success, you still have to think about the big picture here. And that's a challenge. That's a challenge because John Collins is really freaking good, dude. He's really good.

What if you sabotage your season by moving? Well, yeah. Well, what if you sabotage your future? Part of me still thinks John Collins is a guy that you should have as a keeper. It's not often you can have a guy who can shoot threes as well as he does, who can do a little bit off the dribble, who can rim run, set screens, roll to the room. He's a perfect lob threat for Trey.

And defensively, he's not great. He's not a great rebounder. You wish you could get more out of him in those categories. But he's not awful. I think he's a good rebounder. I mean, look, it's hard. I think he's a good rebound there because they go small and he grabs rebounds. He plays next to Capella who leads the league.

Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, I guess I should say statistically, like, the role for him. Like, he's not just a five for you. Right. You know, he's playing a lot of forward two big lineups. So, you know, with John Collins, he's really good. I mean, he's really good. Like, you might want a little bit of a different type of player if you are playing him

next to a Capella. Is why I guess I'm trying to say you might want more versatility. on the defensive end of the floor, you might want those types of quality. So for Atlanta, it's about finding that. But Collins has averaged like 20 points, now three seasons in a row now. He's at 18 this year, 22 last year, 19.5 the year before. This is a good player, a really good offensive player who I could get better as he enters his prime years defensively.

And for Atlanta, I'm not sure. Like, how much would you need to give him up? Probably a good amount. A lot if I am, because I am, I am, I am, taking a massive risk. I just don't think they will now. Given their recent success, I don't think they win now. If they had, like, kind of been around 500 since the McMillan change, then, yeah,

you might sit there and say, look, we are not maxing him out when it comes, when it comes time. Yeah, I mean, you can wait and still figure it out, which is why a lot of executives around the league don't think he will get traded. Because for Atlanta, you can still have all these options. in a couple months from now, during the off season. That's not going to go away. No,

and the worst thing, to me, the big reason I keep him anyway is I don't think I'm going to get the requisite value given this situation because somebody else is going to have to max him this off season. And I hold my nose,

I max him, and then I've got the asset, right? Like, I've got the asset. And like also in the short term, to your point, Chris, you're building chemistry right now. You're building something. building a system and you're building something that is a foundation that can be built upon

over the coming years and having John Collins and your team with McMillan as the new coach right now and all these guys figuring out how to play with each other and you know maximize what they can be collectively chemistry and continuity does matter some well and and you never know like if people talked about the Collins trade relationship whatever look it is since the beginning of time, it has remained true. Winning cures everything. It just does. It just does. And so, look, guess what? Everybody starts getting along and high-fiving and becoming friends when you're winning. The hardest thing to do is be losing every day, everybody pointing fingers, and this isn't going my way. You got one guy who's freaked out because he's like,

dude, I'm playing for a contract here, and this guy, you know, won't pass with it. But once you once everybody gets on the same page and you start winning, it's kumbaya. You know what I mean? Everybody walks in with a pep in their step and they, you know, like, again, it cares everything and they're winning. Sure. They're winning.

And also a little friction isn't always a bad thing. Friction can help with improvements and offering suggestions. Sometimes you need to hear, you know, that you're wrong about something in order to improve, you know, and think about it and, you know, be introspective with yourself, right? So for John Collins and training, the report you're a first. to was, I think, the Sam Amic one about how Collins in a film session wanted, you know, more touches wasn't totally happy with Trey's usage as point guard. But, you know, those types of confrontations can lead to growth. All right. Another thing that took place last night, it was the

overachievement versus underachievement bowl, which was Portland versus New Orleans. I mean, I think Portland behind the incredible heroics all year long of Damien Lillard. man, have really outperformed what we would have thought they were going to be able to do when losing C.J. McCollum for as long as they did, when losing Yusuf Nerkich for as long as they did, and he has willed them and his crunch time numbers. And, you know, there's so many close games that are played in the NBA, and they've got him. And he gets them home. You know, feels like every damn time he gets them home. On the other side, like, I don't know how deep we can go into this season

before we start to wonder are the pelicans going to snap out of the easy they snap out of thing. I mean, at what point does the sample size get big enough where we go, this is who they are? You know what I mean? Because we look at their roster, we look at their talent,

we look at what Zion has become, and we go, they should be better than what they are. It's maddening to watch them and them be, you know, on the outside looking in from, you know, the top 10 spots in the Western Conference. And there they go again. They played this team in Portland last night and they lose. And, I mean, again, we're halfway through the season.

Is this just who they are? Like, they're just destined to be this team that you cannot gauge. I'm puzzled with the amount of drop pick and roll coverage I use against Damien Lillard, who just shreds defenses when they do that. And I look at Stan Van Gundy and I look at the personnel on the team and I'm like, what choice did they have? You know, when you have playing Stephen Adams 30 plus minutes, you can't play a switching scheme. You can't play an aggressive scheme. And I look at this Pelicans roster and just look at beyond Zion Williamson, beyond Brennan Ingraham and Lanzel Ball. you know, you have some young guys that have talent,

Kira Lewis, Nikiel Alexander Walker, Jackson Hayes has shown flashes, but a lot of this team just feels incomplete. A lot of the team feels incomplete to maximize what Ingram and Zion could be. We've talked a bunch about defensive effort, intensity, focus over the course of the season. That still needs to get better.

But I still look at the personnel with this roster, and this isn't perfect. Stephen Adams, like the David Griffin trade to get him and the idea of bringing in a veteran, a tough, you know, a greedy guy, you know, help set the tone for his team. Well, Stephen Adams isn't as good anymore. He's just not. He's just not the same player anymore. And in a league where you have players like Damien Lillard, you cannot play the drop, pick, and roll scheme. He is a player certainly much more useful in a basketball that does not exist anymore.

a basketball game that does, I mean, think about this, Kev. How many guys around the league remind you of Stephen Adams? None? Not many, no. Like, they don't catch, they don't catch lobs. They don't really, like, block a million shots. Maybe the guy he went against last night and a scanner, like, that mold, you know, of a screener. I know, I know.

It's not great, but I mean, like a screening and rolling guy who isn't a great defender. And it's a very, it's a very vague, you know, comparison. I think that tells you about where he kind of stands, you know what I mean? And I watched wars where Stephen Adams is going up against Jack Randolph and Mark Saul. And, you know, it's, you know, it's warfare down in the paint and whatever. And like when he was on those Durant Westbrook teams, and I mean, mega useful. There were still a lot of guys that, you know, made their hay down there.

Nowadays, like, I mean, look, you find there's nobody that doesn't. face up to the basket. Yeah. You know what I mean? Adams isn't a face up guy necessarily, but Adams, I still think could have value in an offense that had a downhill pick and all guard. Like if you put Adams on Portland, just flip him onto that team, he could be effective screening for Damien Lillard, rolling down the lane, finishing in the paint or occasionally

like throwing up, you know, a little flutter Adams has. He just doesn't finish though. He's not a finish. Yeah, yeah, I know, but that's what I mean. He doesn't fit with the Pelicans. Eric Bledso doesn't fit with the Pelicans and probably not anywhere. So with this team, Daniel, not anywhere.

Well, I mean, you want to find a team? What team wants Eric Bletso? I mean, look, I think Eric Bledsoe would be a dynamite backup. Okay, that's fair. Overpaid nonetheless. But, yeah. But a solid backup who brings defensive energy off the bench on a contending team. And he might close games for me.

I mean, I hope not. No, no, but I'm saying on defense. I don't need him running my team. I hope not. Huh? I hope not. You're in trouble then. Pelicans fans will agree with me.

They will agree. Pelicans fans seem so sick of Eric onceo and Stephen Adams. It's kind of crazy. But that's what I mean. Like the veterans that they got, Bletsow and Adams, for the purpose that they got them, to bring defensive energy effort,

setting a tone. Bletzo's defense has fallen off a cliff since last season in Milwaukee. He's just not putting in the same level of effort or setting that example. Adams just doesn't move as well as he did before. So this Pelicans team, I look at them. I look at the personnel, David Griffin's going to make some changes. But the young guys, Chris, like I still have a hard time thinking that they should move

Lonzo, B.I. Brandon Ingram and Zion, those two guys are keepers. No kidding. Obviously, Kira Lewis, there's a lot of talent there in him. There really is. Kira Lewis could be a player for them over the coming years. So their youth is still, you know, good. And they got draft picks. And they got a lot of picks. So it's about the pieces around those guys that they need to find. So it's going to be really interesting to see what happens with Lonzo. There was a report this morning from Mark Stein that the Clippers have interest in Lonzo. I haven't heard anything about that for what it's worth. With the Clippers having interest, I'm not quite sure how they could actually get a deal to work. They don't have the draft picks. They have Luke Kinnard as like a young player that might have

some trade value. I don't see a deal there. We'll see. But there are a lot of teams that have interests in Lonzo, but I'm not so sure that we'll see the Pelican move him. Lonzo looks great. He's the one guy on that team that I watch him on the defensive end of the floor and have a lot of respect for the effort he's putting in. Well, he had really turned up at the second half of last year and then was just God awful. He fell apart in the bubble, yeah, and fell apart at the beginning of the season. But then he got it back.

Yeah, got it back. He has gotten it back. I think, you know, there's only so many times you can hear. Kevin O'Connor, you know, talk on pods and do videos about LaBello before you start to want to remind, you know, everybody that you're the older brother. And I am tired of Kevin talking about my younger brother all the time. What about me? What about me? I love Lonzo.

I love Lonzo. I love him. I beat this guy's ass in my backyard every day for 15 years. And he gets talked about every day. Nobody's talking about me. I'm playing with Eric Blitzzo. He's playing with Terry Rose. hearing Gordon Hayward.

Look, I still got Lonzo stock. I like Lonzo. I did too. Love him. He's a great, really nice role player. But I wonder, man,

you know, he's with clutch now. You still got that old David Griffin thing hanging out there. I know everybody can say kumbaya, but you know that pissed them off when he did, you know,

and he corrected himself, corrected the record, talking about it being miserable, you know, in Cleveland. and, you know, how hard it was with LeBron and all that stuff. Like, I mean, Clutch is like, all right, bro. Well, you're about to pay $500 million to Lanzo now.

So who knows? Maybe they can work that out with Clutch. So anyways, and then on the Portland front, look, Portland, now they got my column back. I mean, they are in the mix. And you know, you're not going to want to be in a close playoff game with two minutes left to go against them when they've got that dude. And if they keep on rocking, he's going to get himself into that MVP.

The MVP race is completely open now. The MVP races, the weirdest I can ever remember. Like this week, Tom Havistro's out there being like, Jimmy Butler, Jimmy Butler is MVP. And it's not unreasonable.

I don't agree with it, like as we talked about on Tuesday. But like, there's a lot of names that at least deserve to be in the top five discussion. Like so Butler can be in the top five discussion. Like so Butler can be in the top five discussion, but like, how many are there that, like, you could argue, could be fifth?

10, 12? There's a lot of guys, Chris. Here's what I'd say. I would say that right now, hold on, I bet I could give you 10 that are reasonable. Let me try to do this, all right? Joel Embed, and I know he's going to miss a lot of games, but. Still in there. Still in it.

Still in the mix. Okay. 100%. All right. Joe L.M.Bed, James Hart. Jordan, Yadis Ante Cumpo, Jimmy Butler, let's see here. If I want to try to catch one more, Julius Randall, you want to throw him in?

No. All right. No, in fairness, LeBron James, Donovan Mitchell or Rudy Gobert. So I'll let you pick, whichever one, right? Chris Paul or Devin Booker, I'll let you pick. Okay? So there's, now I'm up to seven. Um, let's say Kaukich, Yokit.

Kauai. Kauai Lillard, that would be 10. And I didn't even mention, you know, if you want to throw Lucas name in there for having a crazy statistical year. And if they keep a run going. That's a lot of names. It's a lot of names. That's a lot of names. And did I say hard and you said, you said, yeah, on us too, right?

Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of names. There's a lot, man. It's wide open. Like, I just pulled up the NBA.com MVP ladder. their top five right now is Yokic Damian Lillard, Janus, LeBron, Embed, at fifth. And then the next five in, this is for it's worth Michael C. Wright's article on NBA.com. Then six through ten, Hardin, Luca, Kauai, Steph, Jimmy Baller.

So Steph is the one name you didn't mention. But so Steph in there as well on his list. That's a lot of names, Chris. And for any of them, I think you can make the argument they could at least be like fifth. at least that last guy on the ballot. Look, the fact that we are at March 19th or whatever it is, and you could come up with five guys, you could come up with your list of five right now.

And honestly, no matter who it was of that group, I wouldn't be able to say that is insane. Yeah. Like the thing is wide out. Once M. B. M. Bid was going to run away with it if they kept on trucking. but once his injury came about and frankly the AD injury came about with LeBron, you know, because LeBron, you know, it's tamed down.

But if they get moving and they start winning a bunch of games, they'll throw his name right back in there because he's done it without AD. It's not even throwing it back in there. It's still in there. No, but I mean it's in there. It was the talk. And then, you know, we change weekly. Everybody does in the NBA.

depended on what the narrative is for that given week. And you mentioned Curry was in that list. So bummed because Golden State is going to be in Memphis tonight and tomorrow night. They are without Curry. Curries, like, again, they were kind of unclear about, Kerr said probably a week, but who knows, he can come back at any time. Like, falling into metal stairs, which is what happened to him at Houston. which has not been a good arena for him for many years now.

There's a history there. But God, man, you don't talk about scary. I mean, let's just hope it's a bad bruise and he is able to come back. But, I mean, they're without Curry, they're without Ubrey, Eric Pascal and James Wiseman both, you know, under protocol. So they're going to be missing a bunch of games here down this stretch. Like, I don't even know who I'm going to be watching. Mike Mulder, I guess. And who?

Like, seriously, can you name who I'm going to? to be, I don't, Kevin Looney. I'm going to watch a little luniac. I guess it's Andrew Wiggins team. You got Looney top shots, Chris? I do not. You don't have any Looney top shots? No, I bet he doesn't. Oh, God.

He probably bought the James Wiseman once too. Looney's a good player, man. He's a good player. He can set screens. Huh? He can say, that's a first thing you say after he's a good player. He could set screens. His contributions aren't top shot material. Oh, okay. Oh, I can't wait until the

Kevon-Ludy's screen one drops. You're going to say hi to Andrew Wiggins for me? Yeah. That's what I'm going to do. You're going to pay me by $100? I will. After the deadline. I told you, I told you we get to the deadline and then we'll take a vote. If he gets moved in the deadline, I do believe there needs to be a vote is if the date should have been able to change. Because it was. Let's just determine that now. I think it's fair. I think it's fair to move the date to the deadline. Yeah, because the deadline's a different date now. I got screwed on that.

I really got screwed when Clay got his Achilles busted. That's when I got screwed. I don't think it's going to stop the Warriors from trading Wiggins. It doesn't? You don't? No, I don't think so. They're not worried about that. I mean, they'll do what's best for when Clay's there and when he's back.

That might be so. All right. I look forward to getting that 100 bucks, Chris. Yeah, right. They were really bad shape, though. and, you know, they're in a mix trying to get, you know, one of the top, hopefully, you know, six to eight, but, you know, at worst nine and ten spots. And they're at danger of falling out of that mix. And hopefully they're able to get curry back.

But even so, Wiseman and Pascal are two big guys for them this year. And so they're in rough shape. We are going to find out about Dallas. there has been a little bit of a groundswell of, hey, look, Dallas has gotten going now. Now, they haven't played the best of the best competition-wise. They did have that good win against Denver. But, you know, I think we're going to find out. I think this is actually a great weekend series.

Friday night, Saturday night. Dallas is in Portland. And I kind of feel like we're going to find out if this improvement is real. You agree? Yeah, I think it's a good test. It's a good test to face Portland. That's a team you could potentially see in a postseason. I don't think so, though, with the way the standings will shake out.

But, you know, Portland's really good, man. We certainly viewed them as peers. We viewed those teams as peers. Yeah, pretty close. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Different styles, but. And now we've got this whole Dallas is started to get going. And that can either really gain steam or it can collapse,

depending on what happens when they're playing against Portland this weekend. Because if they drop those or they look like crap, then it's like, that was kind of a facade. They didn't really get it going. But you go and win at Portland. That's now a great win because this guy has been just distinguishing people. Damian Lillard, they come to Portland and he rips hearts out. Like it feels like once a week, doesn't it?

I feel like every week we are seeing. some kind of Damien Lillard Dame time you know highlight package that's up I wake up did you see Damian Lillard post game after the other day I did did your son watch that

I don't know we didn't talk about it we didn't talk about it because that's like the type of clip I'd want kids to watch that's inspirational stuff that that's being a leader and a role model what Damien Lillard said after that game and I mean, it resonated with me.

It fired me up. I'd imagine if you're a young kid who loves the NBA. Go check out the Damien Lillard post game talk about, you know, his work ethic. It's awesome. It's so good. Good advice. You know, we've talked throughout this year. It's been an ongoing conversation that we've had, Kev, about the insanity of the Eastern Conference.

Oh, boy. I mean, never more so than today. As we talked about Atlanta surging earlier, Miami has been a surging team. as of late too. Those teams are respect four and five. Charlotte is six. New York is seven and Boston

is eight. I got New York at six on ESPN Sandings. Oh, well, I guess maybe they have the tiebreaker over Charlotte. Yeah. Yeah. It's possible. I mean, they have the same record. Or, you know, 21 to 21 to Charlotte's 20 and 20. So they're both

seven and a half back. Yeah. Out of first. I mean, but, I mean, we a half a game that is separating five through eight. And then it's just a couple games separating them from nine and ten, right? Only three games separating five and ten, which is wild. You are one week away in the Eastern Conference, truly, one week away, especially as many games. As Atlanta has shown. Yes.

There's one seven in a row, and now they're really pushing for the fourth seat. It's kind of wild. And same with Miami. Miami was a disappointment who now has got home court advantage within two weeks Miami's defense just suffocating like there's still not scoring points

they have yet to still figure out their offense but the defense oh my goodness what they're doing right now is pretty crazy and let me tell you something kev I saw them whatever it was two nights ago and that was the lowest scoring game you could ever

imagine the Grizzlies had not scored less than 100 anytime they've won a game. And they had never scored 89 points this season. They were able to get a win on the John Morant game winner, but that was their lowest point total of the entire season was 89. To your point on the defense thing, and that was Miami's fifth game in seven days. I mean, that's where we're at.

Like with this COVID season. That's toughness. Five in seven? I mean, like, you know, you see these teams and they're playing their third game, three and four, three and four nights. And they're like, they're dead. You're like throwing them to the wolves. And this team was playing its fifth game in seven nights and still is like, you got to beat them, you know? Because they are, they'll hold you to whatever point total, they want to.

Boy, they're tough. They are tough. And when Butler's engaged like he has been and out of bio, that front and back of your defense, they can really swallow you up. I mean, I was so impressed to see that kind of, because teams that are playing their fifth game in seven nights just get absolutely run out.

And that speaks to that. You know, they promote this whole heat culture stuff all the time, but it really does speak to that. When you could come out and give a performance under those circumstances, 99% of those games, teams just get run out and punt the game, and they just chalk it up to, bro, we're dead.

Our legs are trashed. They fight through it. Yeah, they really do. Yep. There's over since February 18th, which is really when their run started. They're number two in the NBA in defensive rating, a couple decimal points behind Philadelphia.

Their offensive rating, though, you know, it's still only 18th over that time span. So their offense still has a lot of room for growth. It really does. Like that can be much better. So Miami, as good as they've been the last month or so, can still be even better than they have been. So I think that speaks to their ability to make further strides ahead of the postseason

if they can either make one tweak, you know, through trade for the off, to improve the offense or they just improve from within. So this, this team. can't be ruled out, Chris. They cannot be. Two other things as we head towards this trade deadline that is coming up a week from now. As I said, next Friday's mismatch, we'll be talking about anything that happened at the trade deadline. We had the PJ Tucker thing happen where he ends up with Milwaukee.

They did not have to give up DeVincenzo in order to get him. So, I mean, I think we get up the first instead. Yeah, but it's a win. I mean, that should be a low first when you got Yonzo. on your team, right? And certainly it's a win now move, but I like that for Milwaukee. I like them attaining PJ Tucker. And now as we head forward, I mean, you figure Oladipo, obviously Houston got screwed

on the Gordon thing. He would have been at a new team, I'm sure, but with him getting injured, now they can't really move him. So is it fair to say, if we're getting. guessing right now oladipo the biggest name or do you think we get like a derosen maybe i mean he's probably a bigger name than oladipa i'll be honest chris i don't know because this this year is so weird it's such a weird year with the playing tournament and that's something executives are trying to you know grapple with there's so many more teams that are still in it in a normal year maybe you'd

see the sacramento king's more willing to move harrison barns but they're still in it because of the playing tournament. And that gives them an opportunity to get in and get an opportunity to sneak into the playoffs as a seven or an eight seed. So that's where like over this next week or so before the deadline next Thursday. Right. This stuff is going to, you know, fall into place. The teams that are buyers and the teams that are sellers.

Or maybe it won't. There might just be a lot of teams that sit on the fence and don't do anything. You know I love more teams competing all the way to the. end, but I also do think that this now creates a different NBA. I'm glad you brought this up. This creates a much different NBA with the 10 team thing, Kevin, because how many of these teams have false hope and think we are, like, we are going to try to, maybe even they become buyers because they want to get there.

They want to be in that mix. They want to be one of those top 10 teams. Whereas if it's eight, there's a bigger group of teams that says, you know what, this ain't happening for us. So we might as well start looking towards being really good next year. And so our vision becomes in next year. I think there's a lot more teams that will not have a chance to even get past the first round, even if they make it to the first round, that are going to decide like, hey, we, we're going to start making moves for now

rather than making moves for the future. And I do think that there will be the teams that do practice patience will probably be the ones rewarded, certainly in the long run. Because you wonder, like, say, I don't know, say you're Chicago, right?

I mean, you're right there. The nine spot right now. You're right there. Right? You're right there. you're really close to being a playoff team. Hell, you could be like Atlanta and have one good week and you look up and you're a frigging home court advantage team, right?

Well, maybe in a different year, you sit there and say, and then Zach Levine is in the MVP race all of a sudden. Yeah, yeah, right. That's right. Yeah, absolutely. If there are Chicago's the four seed. But you would sit there and you would say, like, maybe in a different year, you go, you know what?

I mean, what's the apex for this team anyway? Like, what's the best thing we can envision winning a series in the first round? I mean, are we really beating any of those top four teams? You're not. You're not. You're not beating. You sound like me, Chris.

You sound like me. Just tank out of the playoffs. Is that what you're saying? No, no, no. I'm not talking about tanking. I'm talking about the way you maneuver your roster at the deadline, which is different. There's a difference between,

trying to remain competitive and playing it out versus I'm attaining assets to win now. And in a normal year, I might not. Absolutely. Right. We're on the same page for sure. It's like Sacramento, they should trade Harrison Barnes if there's a good offer out there. Right. I mean, but like because of the situation, they're in the 13th spot right now. There are three and a half back from the 10.

In a normal year, they'd be five and a half back from the eight with, you know, such slings. possibilities of ever catching that. But the 10? I mean, OKC could slide. That's always possible. New Orleans, I don't know what's going on with them.

Like, they could very well slide too. It's not out of the question for them to catch up with Memphis. Like, you don't know what could happen. If job misses another week or two. Like, it could happen. It could happen.

Anything can happen. So Sacramento can still say to themselves, we got a chance. Yep. Again, to the 8th C. It's so slim. It's just not a possibility.

But with them, we'll see what happens, man. Like my understanding is that they are holding on tightly to Harrison Barnes for now. Will that change over the next handful of days before the deadline? We'll see what happens. Stuff always changes in the days before the deadline, which is why it makes like reporting stuff now, you know, iffy sometimes with what teams you're going to do or won't do.

So we're going to find out over the coming days who are the buyers and who are the sellers. I hope teams do the right thing and look towards the future instead of trying to sneak in to get the 10 spot and just to have for some disappointment to say they made the plan. Last thing before we get out of here today, the ringers draft guide dropped since we last spoke. The NCAA tournament got underway yesterday. Isn't it beautiful, Chris? Isn't the draft guide stunning? The draft guide is, it is my favorite thing, you know, that is put together.

I mean, I love the way it's put together. I love the graphics, the pictures and everything. Just the whole way it's set up. That's all Mike Marisco and Lindsay Fields, their developer and designer of the draft guide, all the guides, NFL draft guide that we do with the ringer and all that. Mike and Lake and Lizzie,

they're magicians. Interface works great. Yes. It does. That's the big thing, right? Yeah. So, yeah, the draft guide is fantastic.

Honestly, I settled in yesterday at whatever it was, four o'clock for whatever that first game was, the Texas Southern game. All four games that they had for the tournament. but yesterday were riveting. Like, I couldn't believe it. How good the frigging games were coming down to the last shot.

And, I mean, I may never forgive Michigan State. I had them last night, and I don't know if you saw this, three seconds left to go. They're up three. They give up a friggin' and one. Impossible. Like, you can just let the guy score. it's the only way is if you give up this and one and they hack the guy he makes it

UCLA takes it to overtime and next thing you know they win and it kept me up really late but the games yesterday were unbelievable they did not feature a ton of these pro prospects to keep an eye out yesterday but that starts today and there are going to be and so we do have guys that are in this NCAA tournament it is going to be very very difficult for some of your guys to improve their draft stock. Kate Cunningham's one. Evan Mobley is two. Jalen Green from Ignite is three.

Jalen Suggs is four. So, I mean, three college guys right there in the top four. And then you got Cominga, the other kid that played for the Ignite at five. So three of those college guys, I'm not so sure that any of them are improving their stock. But do you view right now Cunningham as a

do you think there is grand separation between him? That's the big question. And Mobley and him and Suggs. Or do you think that maybe if we look up and Moby's in the final four or Suggs is in the championship game and is most I'd say that

that there can be a debate about one. I think with Mobley there can be a debate. With Suggs, I don't think so. Okay. Mobily, yes. Sugs, no. Mowbly's just got that two-way ability.

The go-to creation ability is a big. He's flashed that. The versatility on defense that is so valuable, the ability to have a guy who can switch screens, who can drop pick and rolls, who can, you know, blitz and hedge and play aggressively. Mobley checks all those boxes with what you want out of a big man. and he has the offensive talent to grow into a guy who can get you a shot.

So he could push Cunningham for number one, but I don't see any others doing it. Okay. So Mowbly is there? Who do you think you are higher on than consensus? Is there anybody that you think you are particularly higher on? So the draft guy just right now is the top 15. Kai Jones, I have him number eight, Texas big man. Yep.

I know Charks, who, you know, I do ringer NBA University with every other Wednesdays. Our next show will be next week on Wednesday. Charks, Charks said he has Kai Jones, I think, in his top five or six. So I don't have Kai Jones quite as high as he does, but I don't believe many people have him in the top 10. I haven't really looked around too much, but I like Kai Jones a lot. Super raw, big man, but a lot, a lot of talent. And he's somebody who I could see completely exceeding expectations in the NBA if he's

able to grow into his raw skills. He didn't play basketball until late. That is so... Late bloomer. It is so unlike Texas big men being, you know, raw and, hey, they've got a lot of potential. I mean, with Mo Baba and Jackson Hayes and we're continuing the line of underdeveloped. Even Miles Turner, like, he underachieved at Texas and fell out of the top 10 despite being like an elite high school recruit. Yeah.

So they've had a lot of good bigs, good big prospects. Well, one of the things that I thought, as I was reading this, one of the major things that stood out, and of course I'm in the state, but on your draft guide, there's two Tennessee lottery picks. Yeah. Two. Now that Keon Johnson, anybody could go look this up. He had what I thought was the dunk of the year this year. That was crazy.

I mean, like out of nowhere, Tomahawk, unbelievable. and he is a crazy, crazy athlete. It's guys like that, though, and like those Tennessee guys, Rick Barnes' tournament record sucks. And so they're the kind that I do look at your draft guide and I go, if they get bounced early, people are going to, people are going to, you know, start to blame them, right? And they're going to drop them maybe and not be right for dropping them,

but they get dropped because their team, gets ousted early. The same would be true of any of these guys, right? Usually if you get, if you get bounced early, you've got to be a really special talent to be able to maintain your spot. Like Aiton was, right? Aiton's team got destroyed by Buffalo. I don't know.

Sometimes, Chris. Like, Jerry Parker got bounced in the first round, second round. No, no. I'm saying he's an exceptional talent. I'm saying any of these other guys. I don't think it impacts it that much, honestly, Chris. don't like if Tennessee lost early, it's not going to kill Keon Johnson's draft stock. It's not going to kill his stock.

No. It's not going to kill his stock. But I'm saying the more successful your team is and the more you're on a big stage. Yeah. Yeah. They guys move ahead of you. Maybe that's a better way to say it. And that's why I take issue with the fact that sometimes people say like, oh, March Madness

doesn't matter. It doesn't impact your draft stock. Yes, it does because NBA teams like to see players perform in Excel on that biggest stage. That matters. Excelling and performing your best when the games are the toughest, that matters to teams a lot. And I think it should personally. So these games do matter. And more opportunities you get to see those guys and see them succeed in those moments or fail in those moments, the better of a grip you can have on what these guys will be in the NBA when they will have to deal with that pressure. I'll give you, I'm just going to give

you one example, which is actually very relevant for this season. One example on this. many, many years ago, anybody could go look this up or maybe you remember it. Ron Lewis was a shooting guard for Ohio State. And Ron Lewis, Xavier is playing, I believe, in the second round of the tournament, crazy ending to a game, Xavier ends up giving up a shot.

Ron Lewis hits a three. They move on, right? Mike Conley has told me, if Ron Lewis doesn't make that shot, I'm back at Ohio State. There's no way around it. Instead, they played in the tight. game against Florida, and he got drafted fourth overall.

It's wild. I mean, it's crazy, but that's how the tournament can impact these guys. It could change their lives, truly, forever, based on one shot going in or not. That is going to do it for today's show. Thanks to producer Sasha, as always, and we will catch up with you next week. Have a great weekend, everybody.