The Mismatch - The James Harden Soap Opera, Broadcast Changes, and Cooper Flagg Reclassifies

Episode Date: August 15, 2023

Verno and KOC react to James Harden's comments, in which he called Daryl Morey a liar, at an Adidas media event in China (02:12). The guys debate if Harden would have gotten more money if he never opted into his contract with Philadelphia and wonder who in the league would even want Harden after he publicly called out Morey. Also, the guys discuss ESPN’s new slate of announcers who will be calling NBA games this season and why newly reclassified prospect Cooper Flagg is the real deal (29:22). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football is around the corner and we are ramping it up over here on the Ringer NFL feed in the month of August. Every week, Ben Solac and I will be bringing you not one but two extra point takens. That's right. Double the trouble as we predict, debate and analyze our way through camp and the preseason every Monday and Friday. But that is not all. Stephen Ruiz and I will be coming to you every Wednesday. We'll talk about everything in the world of the NFL. And who knows, maybe Stephen will even have something nice to say about your favorite squad.

Though frankly, I wouldn't count on it. Subscribe to the Ringer NFL. show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And be sure to follow the Ringer NFL on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter at Ringer NFL. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Monday night from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Camerman, Kevin O Shredder, Kevin O'Candyland.

Kevin O'Han. We got some news. We actually got real news today. Real news. So we need to give everybody a heads up. This was our week off, but we do this for you. The people in my bane voice. The people. We do it for you.

Well, we did also say that we were going to do it every week during the summer. We did say that. Because the Spotify activities this week. Like there's a lot of people out of the office and all that type of stuff. We weren't flown to Sweden. No, we weren't. No. I'm in Memphis and you're in California.

Yeah. While the rest of Spotify is gallivanting around in Sweden, I suppose. I could have gone. I chose not to go. I could not. I never was invited. I'd rather go to Red Rocks. And the Swedes would love me.

Anyway, this morning. He looked Swedish. I should have gone over to China to see James Hardin's deal. that he was doing because this got fun. Everybody wakes up this morning to the news that one of the most long-lasting special relationships in the NBA, James Hardin and Daryl Morey, which has gone on for some time, has evidently found some rough times. In fact, when James Hardin stood in front of every one,

that he was meeting with in China. What was that a camp? Like with kids there, right? Kids like something like that. No, it said, Darry is a liar and I will never be a part of an organization that he's a part of. Let me say that again. Darryl Mori is a liar and I will never be part of an organization that he's a part of.

To be clear for the listeners, that's not you saying, let me repeat that. That was James Harden. James Hardin actually said, let me repeat that. I mean, and my buddy, Taco Trade Kirby, I loved. He said, James Hardin has the deepest trade request bag in league history. He's done a classic, just give up. He's gone on a party tour. Now he's slandering his own GM, one of the greats.

Obviously, this is extremely troubling. I think if you are a Sixers fan, just given what a mess this has become. It was just a few days ago that I think, you know, most of the time the fans are going to be on the GM side and they're going to be on the team side. And it appeared as if there were no good deals for James Harden out there, had been materializing.

And so Daryl Morey made it publicly known that they expect James Hardin to be at training camp and he thinks that that gives them the best chance to win and they're not making a bad trade. And if they are going to move him, that they need to bring back a star caliber player and they need to be able to make themselves better, it does not appear that that's the case,

that that's on the table right now. And so, you know, there was going to be a response from Hardin. And this was the response, and this was rather scathing, to say the least. And it appears as if this has gotten rather personal between these two.

And so, I know you wrote an article about it. You know, I'd imagine you're kind of stunned when you see it for the first time. I was. Oh, yeah. I was shocked. I, you know, pulled out my phone this morning and it was like, is this real?

I saw it, you know, tweeted from like, an aggregated account first, like the first thing that popped up in my 4U. And then I saw it was originally tweeted by Shams. And then I saw there was a different angle of the video where you can hear the crowd cheering for harder afterwards, as he kind of can't hold his smile and any other questions. All right. I will say to your point, this is no lie. The very first time that this has happened where I thought, is that AI?

Yeah, is this real? Did somebody, and I looked at it a couple different times because it's a very clear camera. Whoever shot that at a very, very clear camera. And I was like, is that like superimposed? And then they dubbed this in there? Because I know, obviously, when you see all these songs and everything, they can do that.

I mean, somebody could do it. It's not hard to do at all. And I'm like, did he really say that? Like, because it's just a strange thing to stand up there and say. And then you've got the cheers in the background. Now, look, he's got a captive. The chairs are funny. Well, because he's got a captive audience.

They love Daryl Morey. Yeah, not exactly a fan favorite in China. Yeah. May have also been a language barrier like, hey, yay, I'm here to see James Hardin. Whatever he says, you're cheering. Right. So you and I, same page, we're checking if it's real. Once you realize that it is authentic, then what?

First, I just think it's important to say for some listeners, I'm sure most people know, but for some, the reason why Hardin is saying this is because of the idea, the thought that there was a handshake agreement between he and Mori when he took the discounted deal last off season. Hardin had a $47 million player option that he opted out of to take a $14 million pay cut. That enabled the Sixers to get PJ Tucker and Daniel House. And we all know that the Sixers were investigated for tampering last year. they were hit with the 2023 and 24 second round draft pick fine for talking early with Tucker and House.

And as far as we know, through all the phones and the emails and everything they looked at, they found nothing on like an illegal agreement, a handshake deal on a long-term contract between Hardin and the Sixers. So Hardin's mad about that. He's mad about being told that he would be traded or they would try to trade him and then they didn't trade him. So that's why he's saying Daryl Moore is a liar for the reasons that we understand right now. That's what we understand it to be. So I think, yes, there was probably a wink, wink when he took the pay cut last year.

But I also think that this is probably more about what is going on right now. But one quick thing. Why do you think there was a wink, wink when he was the one leaking on Christmas Day, his team. Christmas Day, he could go to the Rockets. Like, that's not the actions of somebody who thinks they have. a wink-wink long-term agreement with the Sixers, with the team that they're on, the team they're trying to win a finals on.

You don't leak time and time again all season long. Oh, you could go to Houston, can go to Houston. That's somebody trying to create leverage that has uncertainty, in my opinion. So maybe it is all about what happened right now, and that's it. Yeah, that's why I think. I think it's about right now.

And that's all, nothing else. I think it's about him opting in. He lost all leverage, Kevin. Yeah. When he opted in. Like, you don't opt in unless you think you're going to get your way. And so that's why he's saying, because look, let's say he opts out, okay? He has all the levers in the world.

Sixers just going to let him walk? Yeah, he would have lost a lot of money, though, that way. Why? You don't think he could have gotten like $150 million, $180 million? Of course he could. No, I don't think so. Are you crazy? It would have been exactly like what just happened with Kyrie, exactly like it.

It went from who? Damn! Therley! Yeah, but Kyrie re-signed with the maps. And that's what I'm telling you. He would have resigned with Philly. So maybe with him, maybe at that point, he didn't want that type of deal. The short-term two-to-three-year deal, maybe he feels like he's still worth more.

This is the same guy that declined, you know, $50 million annually from the nets. It's $161 million over three years. He declined that deal with the hopes of getting $250 plus million the following summer. Totally understand. Yes, this is a guy that wants, he wants to be paid like his peers, that he, who he feels are his peers. And over the course of time, he didn't, he was so, he wanted all his money that he didn't even have an agent for years. Because he didn't want to give up the fee. He wants the $200 billion deal that other guys have gotten, right?

That's what he wants. Okay, that wasn't going to be out there. But he could certainly get more than opting in for the $34 million or whatever it is. It was a goofy decision. Yeah, this upcoming year. Well, Goofy only if, only if he did that without some kind of assurance, that if you're, and you look, I'm not a Hardin fan. But for him to react this kind of way,

I would imagine his side of the story is, I would never have opted into that contract. But now this guy is coming back and saying he can't find a deal for it. And now I've opted into that deal. I would have never opted into that deal. Unless I had an assurance that I wasn't going to have to be here. If they don't want to give me the money, they don't have to give me the money. Sure.

That's fair, Chris. But the way people have been talking about that around the league since it happened is this was like a panic decision. He, like his circle looked at the market. Houston dried up. They were turning to Fred Van Bleet. There was no other potential opportunities or destinations for him without taking a pay cut. And that they feared what the deal would be with the Sixers with the offers that they would have made. Because there was silence from the Sixers side of things.

As I put in the article, they were not talking prior to free agency, as far as I understand it. So if you're a hard end in his camp, I think they just opted in and said, okay, well, let's try to play our cards right here. We take the guaranteed money, $35.6 million for this coming season and try to force our way out to the team that we want to go to. And we don't know all the details here. You could be right. You could be totally right there. But why would you give up all your leverage? If you don't opt in, Kevin,

what's the worst thing that happens? You're still unsigned today. Oh, give me a break. Come on. Look, I hate the guy, but let's get serious. Philadelphia has to resign him. They can't lose him for nothing. But what if Philadelphia is offering three years 85?

No way. No. He could have done better. Come on. And Brooke's got $90 million. Get out of here. Van Ville got two years, $83.6 million with a team option for the third year. Right.

What if that was the deal harder was being offered? Do you think he takes that deal from the Sixers? Three years, $120-ish million with a team option on the third year. Do you think he takes that? Or is he still holding out right now for more money? Well, didn't Kyrie get $120 and then like six impossible bonuses or something like that? The Kyrie situation's a little. No, if not.

It's actually exactly the same. Where Dallas couldn't, they'd rather have the asset. Kind. I mean. Philly would rather have the asset. You're not losing him for nothing. But he gave them his opt in. That's the only reason I could see him being mad is I only opted in because I was

given the his shirts. And now he's backtracking because he can't find a deal for me. Well, regardless, we are at the point now where regardless of what led him to make the decision to opt in, we're at the point now that how much uglier will things get? We have him on a stage, his team sending a social media video to a bunch of people to have them posted on social, to try to stir things up and make things ugly and make it toxic. That's working, right? That's working in the sense that people are talking about it today.

Should Darrell have done that? you know, is he trustworthy, blah, blah, blah, this and that. But regardless of your personal feelings on any of that, the fact is, if you're James Hardin right now and you're doing this, if you're Steve Balmer, the Clippers owner, are you sitting back thinking, okay, you know, let's actually give up what we can to make this deal happen? If you're a GM of any of these other teams that may or be maybe iffy about getting James Harden, there are already so many people that for years have thought of him as some malcontent they don't have any interest in acquiring.

If you're Hardin, you're going to be 34 next season. This year you're 33. Next season when you're 34 years old getting a new contract, how many teams are actually going to want you? Are these decisions working against him even more? Next summer, the Sixers have cap space and the Spurs, Magic, Jazz, Raptors, Pistons, and Wizards. Hardin really doesn't make any sense for any of those teams.

You could make the argument like a desperate team trying to win and stay in the middle like the wizards. But all the others don't make any sense at all. There's no argument for Hardin. So then you think about sign and trades, there's not much interest today in Hardin. The Clippers aren't making an acceptable offer for him. The heat are trying for Damien Lillard at this point.

So like does it come to the point that, you know, mid-season and its teams looking for an expiring salary? If you're Hardin, you need to be doing everything you can to restore your value around the league. Regardless of what it takes, you need to restore your value everywhere, not just focus on trying to force your way out of Philadelphia. That's where I kind of come away from today watching that video. I'm like, this doesn't help you in the big picture. It might help you make things ugly with the Sixers and push your way out.

But I'm not even sure that's the case necessarily. If it's turning off a potential suitor like the Clippers, he just needs to think about what can I do as a player on the court, regardless of where I'm playing. to actually give myself viable destinations. I also think that most people have an understanding that Daryl has had kick gloves versus with James Arden his whole career. He's let James run the roof. Like, you know what I mean? Yep. If James shows up late to practice, so what.

If they don't practice. So what. Yeah, he's enabled him the entire way. He has been his biggest defender. He has been his biggest choice. He has big his biggest cheerleader, his entire career. Called him a better score by far than Michael Jordan, Daryl. There's no way that, and of course, Daryl's career is completely tied to Harden as well.

Okay. So those things go together. That being said, yeah, if I'm another GM, I think you make a good point, Kip. You think I want to deal with this bull crap? No way. It has to be a hell Mary. You'd have to find a situation with the GM that's like going to get ousted. And it's like, well, what the hell?

I might as well take a flyer on this because, you know, look, the guy did lead the league and assist. You can talk yourself into it, right? He's still, we need good players. Yeah, we need good players. He's still one of the 30-ish best players in basketball. And I'm trying to do something to save my job. Absolutely.

Which is what the clippers could be. The clippers, like, they, you know, they're trying to go for it all. Yeah. And if you're, like, if you're an established guy, though, if you're like an established guy that's got it all together and you've got a good team culture that you're comfortable with, you're not bringing them in. No way.

It has to be, it has to be somebody trying to, you know, just take a flyer to try to, you know. You remember David Griffith did it a couple years ago, trying to bring him a column. Like, I just got to make the playoffs. I can't go another year without making the playoffs. And he's not going to go for Hardin. Right.

So. No, no. Yeah. But I'm just saying like that kind of like, hey, I need to make something happen here. Like you're going to have to find a GM that needs to make something happen because this team is like where you're going. It ain't what's it going to hurt. Minnesota? No, you cannot.

You cannot stymie the Anthony Edwards ascension. And he's looking more and more like the budding super. Superstar is a place this summer. I totally agree with you. So, like, if not New Orleans, if not Minnesota, Lakers midseason, D-Lo type of deal, that type of thing. Could you see the Lakers? Well, look, the people that are going nuts always Phoenix,

try to find the way to get there. Yeah, well, so what about the Lakers? I'm just throwing a couple teams at you. Lakers? I mean, those guys were convinced they could fix Westbrook. Okay. Of course they could convince themselves they could fix. they could fix this guy.

So Lakers, Clippers, sons. Another one, by the way, wouldn't want to sky me the Reeves thing. He looks great this song. Oh, I know. I agree completely. So Lakers, Clippers, sons in the West. And then in the east, I don't think any of the non-playoff teams from this past season, aside from possibly the Wizards and then of the playing teams, the Bulls maybe,

like I could see them wanting an expiring contract. I could see them trying to kind of be the Oklahoma City team that they were with Chris Paul trying to improve his value. Miami, if they get Lillard. The heat if they don't get Lillard. But other than that. Like if you got him in that structure and you've got Jimmy who's going to, he's the one that can deliver for you,

you've got a guy that could come up big for you. So our list here of theoretical hardened teams aside from the Clippers, Lakers' Clippers' Lakers' Sons, Wizards, Bulls, Heat. And that would be the type of thing were, Morey takes this into the season and regardless of how things play out with Hardin, one of these teams decides, you know what, let's roll the dice and take a shot.

Or they're like, we want an expiring contract and try to roll the dice with this guy and see what he turns into, a la Chris Paul on OKC a handful of years back. Those are our teams. Make no mistake. His agent went on that podcast and started talking about how he thinks he can be an MVP

and he's got all of his, you know, he's got his workouts, and his diet and everything's so dialed in and he's going to be amazing. Like, you have to start doing stuff like that because he did not make it any easier to trade him today. No. Can you imagine if you're, Darrell, and you're getting on a phone call trying to move him at this point? It's like, if I'm the guy out of the other end, I'm like, man, you think I'm giving you something good for this guy? I think it was a bad move what they decided to do today.

It was a really bad move. Of course it was. It's funny. It's incredibly funny. It's hilarious. But in terms of trying to get, what is your desired outcome here? And obviously, look, in the moment, it's very emotional. His desired outcome is to let everybody know that Daryl Morey's a snake.

That's what he thinks. Yeah. And why, look, I am more apt to go, why does he think that? And I would bet a large sum of money that the reason he thinks is because he felt right or wrong that he had some assurance that this was not going to play out like this. That if I opt in, just like I took that pay cut last year, but that you guys don't want to pay me, fine. That's fine. But if I opt into this, you got to move me. And they say, all right, just opt in and we'll figure out a way for you to get.

get out of here. And then when it came time and he wasn't able to move, now he feels betrayed and feels like he shouldn't have opted in in the first place. He just threw away all his leverage by opting in. That was the crazy thing. Because remember, it was like immediately followed with it was James Hardin is opting into his contract basically with the understanding that he's being traded. That's how the story was reported. So that's what makes me feel like his opt-in was contingent upon, right? He's opting in, and they're going to try to find him a destination. And that was the end of that.

And so now he looks at it and goes, this guy, now he got me at the price, and now he's not going to trade me. He wants me to come to training camp because he can't get the deal. And so that's how the relationship falls apart. You know, supposedly there's a big mural of James Hardin when you walk into Errol Morey's house. I don't know what's going to happen to that. I guess you got to take it down. Or just look at it every day and say, this guy called me a liar. I mean, it's a mess.

This is a mess. And I think you're right. Not that many teams. And one of the other, you know, one of the other points you brought up, which I thought was a good one, is, you can't do this then beat again. I mean, I know the guy was whatever. Five for 18 for 15 points in game seven. And Hardin had like nine points.

Meanwhile, on the other side, Jason Tatum's got 51 points. So it's not like he showed up when it mattered most either. That being said, it's just been a catastrophe trying to build around MBE. Year after year, after year,

it's something. another one. Every year. I know. What a mess, huh? Yeah. I mean, it's like you feel, like for the Sixers, you feel bad for Joelle and Bede right now.

He's turned himself into an MVP. And like he deals with drama every year, trade requests, bust draft picks, guys forgetting how to shoot, peanut allergies. It's always something with the Sixers. And yet,

he does need to improve in the postseason. He does need to elevate his play. And part of that is going to be related to what happens with the coaching staff here. They hired Nick Nurse. What type of system is he going to install? Are they going to have less stagnant offense in a postseason setting? Then the Doc Rivers run teams did or some of the Brett Brown run teams did with Ben Simmons and their clog in the paint. And with Darrell Mori, like, if you bring Hardin back, that rightfully is his preferred plan of action here.

Because if you bring Harden back, there's a chance, a small chance. he changes his mind and decides to stick it out and play. Don't you break all trust if he doesn't, though? I almost think you can't, because of the way the Simmons thing played out, you can't have it happen again. You just can't. With Embedit. Yeah.

Yeah, but unless Maxie emerges this year, he takes another step up and you get a great supporting cast, you know, and a couple picks in return for Hardin, whether it's from the Clippers or some other team, then suddenly maybe you have something with Maxie and Embed being the two best players on the team and then a really strong supporting cast and a new, more innovative system under Nick Nurse. I think that's going to be the vision. That's why you bring Hardin back because right now the deal suck.

And that's why these talks have ended. What the Clippers are offering doesn't allow them to stay as contenders. And so we move on and I guess we'll find out on the next episode of the soap opera with what's going to happen with James Hardin because at this point we're all just guessing. It's just a huge. I mean, it just feels like, deal with the devil in this case. Because if you trade him, Mbid might just say, like, look, you screwed this up again and we're not good enough. If you don't trade him, then you're sitting, and if he just sits out or tries to sabotage it, he's going this again.

Like, it might cost you envy. Yeah. What happens with this? That's what's interesting. Right. That's what I'd be worried about. Yeah. It's almost like maybe I don't need to get the,

if I don't get the greatest return of all time, at least it wouldn't cost me my franchise player. But I don't know. It might cost them anyway, because it's just, evidently he's still big buddies with Hardin, which is kind of odd, considering the way it's all playing out.

Why doesn't James Hardin want to play there? That's one of the things that's never talked about. They've got a chance to win the title, and it's obviously the best situation. for him that Joel and B. Hardin, Pick, and Roll was great. And they can obviously

play together. And evidently, they like each other. And I just don't understand. I don't understand. Real quick question, Chris, last thought that I really have on this Harden thing. With that Hardin article I wrote, I had

a quote in there that Darrell Moray had on his radio interview a couple weeks back. And he said on 97-5 Fanatic, he said, what we're attempting to do is have the best team possible this year, but also have the ability, if we get into a next season situation, to be a very unique team with the most cap room of a team.

Us being the only team with a top player that a free agent can join is going to put us in a very unique situation. Mori's getting at the point that they could have a ton of cap space next year with Embed under contract, the maxi cap holds, and that they could be the only team that has an MVP caliber of player with the flexibility to add a player, with all the restrictions that are going to be on teams now

with the hard cap and all that type of stuff, the lack of cap space. He's saying that they want to target free agents next summer. Who do you think Mori in the back of his mind wants? Because next year's free agent class, 80s already signed. Kauai Leonard's got an option and he's older and injury prone. Pascal Seaccom, there's been reports that he doesn't actually want to leave Toronto, who knows if he gets traded.

Jamon Brown has already signed. Paul George has a player option. LeBron James has a player option. Holiday, O.G.N. and O.B. DeMarda Rosen. I mean, like, who do you think he wants? Is it LeBron James? Because I think Daryl has always taken big swings. I think his vision next year would be to say, hey, we sign you, LeBron James, and we'll get Brony James as well.

That's what I think it would be. Like what else? What else would you be thinking about big picture for next summer, other than that? I mean, the only player I thought that he's always tied to is James. Yeah. So, right? I don't know if there's somebody else that would be coveted necessarily. Unless it's just a bunch of role players with all that money that they'll have.

But if it's the big fish, I think Mori's target next summer would be LeBron James. Oh, wow. It just makes sense logically, Chris, right? Yeah. Who else would it be? He's the big game hunter, as you said. A couple of other things we want to mention before we get out of here.

ESPN announced that the way we watch basketball next year is going to change a little bit because of the analyst. Of course, Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson are out. Doris Burke and Doc Rivers are. in. I actually think that will be good. I think they'll probably get some chemistry and they'll be good together. Doc was good first go round. And Doc is usually, you know, he's a charming guy.

He's always good in interviews. And, like, I think he'll be good. Aside from the poor audio that he had on his end with the Bill Simmons podcast a couple weeks back, he was awesome. He was great. For a guy that just, you know, was an NBA head coach. He was really good. We'll see how Doris develops, you know, like alongside

Doc and Mike Green now. Like, you know, sometimes your supporting cast matters and Doris has a lot of talent. So I think with Doc and

Green, that could be a good crew potentially. I'm hopeful. And the second crew is interesting as well. I love the second crew. I think Ryan Rucco is great. I like him.

And he's got JJ Reddick and Richard Jefferson. I like that. I like that. I think people are going to really love that group. I really like that group.

I think JJ's great on games. And I think that Jefferson's got a very good personality. He's very self-deprecating, but he's also, like, insightful. He's funny. He played on a lot of good,

yeah, he played on a lot of good teams. He's got a wit about him. I think that, I think they will actually develop into something very, very good that people really like those three together on games.

And a little younger, it skews younger. Yeah, yeah. You know? I wonder, I mean, so in Mark Jones, I wonder if they'll pair him with somebody new, and maybe Bob Myers.

like Bob Myers is going to be doing some countdown games, but could they also try him out announcing games, I wonder? Get real. Bob Myers is literally only doing ABC. And that's it. He's not even doing the other countdown. That's all. Yeah.

Any ABC. Really? Okay. Yes. He's only going on it. He's in everyone's TV. Was that in the announcement? Okay.

Yes. Wait, hold on now. It says Myers will appear on ABC editions of NBA countdown. Okay. Oh, including Saturday primetime on ABC and NBA showcase on ABC. So he's only on the ABC ones. No ESPN. Okay.

Right. He's only on the ABC ones, Bob Myers. And Bob Myers was great on Ryan's podcast. You know, I know we were texting about this earlier. Like, might be a guy that needs long form. I mean, they only give you two minutes to talk at most in these segments on those countdown shows. 30 seconds and that's it. Then you get a producer.

No, I'm saying it's a group. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. And look, and 45 of that is going to be Stephen A yelling at you. So about whatever you said. I hope they, I hope personally hope they revised the format a bit. Allow them to go a little bit more long form.

I understand commercials need to be played, yada, yada, yada. But Bob Myers was really good on podcasts, really good as well. It's the Sloan Sports Analytics Conference every time I'm. I saw him there. I feel like I learned something. Bob is a very thoughtful guy, and I hope he gets the time on Countdown, and they can make that a good overall show.

And the dynamic could be cool. It could be kind of their own type of mismatch up there with Stephen A, Bob Myers, Maliko. Like, that's going to be a unique crew. It could clash. It might not work, but the different perspectives could actually be really interesting. Look, they just search for something every single year.

I know. I don't have not found the right mix. by any means. Congratulations to Hubie Brown. He'll be calling his 50th year as an analyst. And then as you mentioned, Mark Jones and Dave Pash are both going to be calling games. And there was, in the press release they sent out,

bro, how old is Mark Jones? I don't know. 50, 55? It says Mark Jones has been calling games for 33 years. I was like, what? Really? 33 years. How old is he?

Oh, he's 61 years old. I had no idea. I had no idea he was 61. Wow. That's a long time to be calling games, 33 years. When I saw that, I was like, is that right? Really? But, wow, he's 61, huh?

He certainly does not seem 61 calling games. He's certainly hip to what's going on. and skews on the younger side, I would say. But obviously, that's probably on purpose. But yeah, I had no idea. When I saw that, I was like, what in the world? Oh, I just saw it on Wikipedia, his middle name is Vernon. Is that true?

Yeah. Kindred spirits, huh? Fountain of youth guys. Me and him. Fountain of youth guys. That's a secret. That's crazy. Yeah, that's crazy.

Is his middle name's really Vernon? Yeah, it's Mark Vernon Jones. According to Wikipedia. Shut up, shut up. All right. And then the last thing I do want to mention is earlier in the summer, I had the opportunity to go over to a lead up to the Nike EYBL Peach Jam. They had a huge event with all the best teams coming.

that came through in Memphis. And I went out there specifically to go see Cooper Flag play. And I came back on the mismatch and I said, look, I know that, you know, every time, we now have gotten into this mode where I kind of roll my eyes at everybody because it's all, you know, there are three best plays that are on House of Highlights or Ball is Life or whatever.

And I love all those sites, but it'll be like, you know, Cooper Flags Junior Year's going to be a movie. And then it'll be like four dunks and a block. Or it'll be like Cooper Flags up next, you know, and it'll be like showing his highlights, whatever. And I'm like, okay, right? I went and saw him in person.

I came back here on the mismatch. I'm like, Kevin, this dude is awesome, awesome. Like he is. I mean, I watched him in a game, have like 14 blocks or some crap. It was crazy. And they were like top of the square. And he was like setting up his teammates.

They were running double teams at him at half court every possession. He was like making the right play like these freaking yokech or something. I was like, who is this freco? He was just, my expectations were very high considering like all the highlight stuff and, you know, kind of buzz that he's got. But seeing him in person, I was blown away. And now the news has come out that he's reclassing. I will say somebody told me about two weeks ago, they were like, I mentioned it to him.

And they said, that kid's going to reclass. They told me that. And then they said, I think he's going to reclass and he's going to go to Duke. So I don't know. We'll see. You know, the kid can do whatever the hell he wants to do. If he wants to go play in the G League, if he wants to go play overtime, if he wants to go play overseas, he can do whatever.

But the idea is that draft changes dramatically if he keeps, if he stays on and we have seen a lot of high school guys that are very highly ranked flame out. But it does change the draft and it does change kind of what you're looking at in a couple of years in a different way because of the reclass. And I know you mentioned that in a tweet. Absolutely. It spreads things out. I mean, it was originally Cooper Flagg and Cam Booser in 2026. Now it's Flagg in 25, Boozer in 26, the Bansston in 27, but he'll probably reclassify to 26 as well. So, I mean, we'll see what changes in the weeks and months to come.

But for now, Cooper Flagg moving up one year. And yeah, Chris, like, that dude is like, For real, for real. No, he's... He struck me as a... He's going to be worth tanking for when it comes around. He's special, special. Yeah, he is.

I'd never seen a 16-year-old like that. I didn't... In person. I never saw LeBron in person when he was 16. But I've never seen a 16-year-old that good. I mean, he plays like he could be in the NBA already. Oh, my God. Right?

And his body, like, he's got a pro-rearing... body already. That's what you mean when you say you didn't see LeBron in person, but it's LeBron-esque in that sense that it's like, oh, wait a minute, this guy looks like he could already play in the league. Oh, he was like knocking down threes flawlessly and he blocked shots at the top of the square.

I mean, that's the crazy thing. Like the athleticism is freakish. His defense is arguably his best quality at this stage. And that's despite him being as great as he is and all around as he is on offense. But the defense is unbelievable. The intensity. The block shots, the rotations, the versatility, the quickness.

Like, that guy is going to be an all defensive player for 10 years, possibly an all defensive player. He's unbelievable on defense. He also, like, has that edge. He talks. Oh, I love the trash talking. Oh, yeah. He does. I love it so much.

He, like, does not get, he ain't, like, he's, like, you want to try to huff and puff with him, he's right there. He's there. I was like, man, watch out now. But yeah, him reclassing, that changes things. It does. If he's really, and here's hoping that he's one of those that could truly live up to the height. I hope so.

You know, because he's got a chance to be very, very special, as do the other kids that you mentioned, boozers kid and that AJ DeVans that you mentioned. Awesome. God, he's awesome. Dude, and guess what? De Manston's from Brockton, Massachusetts. Is that true? I know, he's from Brockton. Oh, wow.

I know. You ever had a, that's where, what's his name, Rocky Marciano's from, right? Rocky Marciano, Marvin Hagler. Oh, Marvin Hagler's from Brockton. I believe Jermaine Wiggins, tight-in spent some time in Brockton. I'm not sure.

I don't think he was born here, but I might be misremembering. Here. You're a LA guy. You're LA guy. Don't say here. You're LA guy. Wiggins, Germain Wiggins coaches Brockton High now.

That's what it is. Oh, okay. So, yeah, he coaches their football team now. But there was an NFL player, cornerback. I have a hyphenated name. Al Lewis Jean. I think that was his name.

Al Lewis Jean. He was in the NFL for a short amount of time. But this will be the first big basketball one that you can. Yeah, he's, like he's going to be a star. There's a little, for sure. Cam Boozer is unbelievable, too. And there's some other good prospects those years as well, but 20, 25, 26, 27 look special because of flag in 25, but 26 looks awesome.

And that could be the year that we get the expansion teams. Like Bill Simmons and Ryan just said their expansion drafts with the Sonics and the Vegas team. 26 could be the team, the year that the Manston, and and Bozer go to those expansion teams or they're part of a lottery

but we'll see what happens interesting all right well James Hardin you did it to us you got us in the studio

recording a podcast even while the rest of Spotify is in Sweden speeding no days off for us Kevin it is always

the pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. I'll talk to you next week. I'm looking forward to him, man. Have a good week, Chris. Enjoy the time in Memphis and not in this week.