The Mismatch - The Lonnie Walker Game, Heat Want It More, Devin Booker’s Godly Playoffs, and the Complex Celtics-Sixers Series

Episode Date: May 9, 2023

Verno and KOC react to a wild Game 4 that saw Lonnie Walker IV explode in the fourth quarter to help the Lakers take the victory and a commanding 3-1 series lead over the Warriors (01:05). The Heat also take a 3-1 series lead as they continue to beat up on the Knicks (26:13). Next, the guys dive into Sunday’s slate of games, starting with the Nuggets and Suns (40:32). They gush over Devin Booker’s ridiculous playoff run and debate whether Chris Paul should come off the bench when (or if) he returns. After discussing the Mat Ishbia-Nikola Jokic incident, the guys dive into the 76ers-Celtics series (01:02:10). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may find this hard to believe, but 60 songs that explain the 90s. America's favorite poorly named music podcast is back with 30 more songs and 120 songs total. I'm your host, Rob Harvilla, here to bring you more trude musical analysis, poignant nostalgic reveries, crude personal anecdotes, and rad special guests, all with even less restraint than usual. Join us once more on 60 Saws That Explain the 90s, starting Wednesday, May 17th, on Spodew. Spotify. Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O. Obama, Kevin O Concer, Kevin O'Connor, A.K., Kavanaugh, Kevin O. Kevin O. Kahneman, Kevin O'Candling, Kevin O'Brien, how are you doing tonight of basketball? What a night of basketball. Oh my goodness. Unbelievable night of basketball.

We're recording this on late Monday night. We have just watched the Warriors lose to the Lakers. They are now down 3-1 in a series to the Lakers. And just as we expected, we come on the pod talking about the greatness of Lonnie Walker. The Lonnie Walker game, Chris. The Lonnie Walker game. That's what we just witnessed. That was absolutely crazy. I saw our co-worker Zach Cram put up that Lonnie Walker has scored 15 points in a quarter one time in his career. career before this evening's events. And he had 15 in the fourth quarter. You know, my man Tony Allen used to always say, stay ready so you don't have to get ready.

And so you used to always tell all the young players. And if there was ever a time where stay ready so you don't have to get ready was played out in the playoffs, it was Lonnie Walker tonight. A guy that did not score and did not play. I mean, just wasn't even involved in the first few games of this series. Now to the point where in a critical game four, he is the one. Not LeBron, not Anthony Davis, not even Austin Reeves or Rui Hachamura, some other standouts. Not D'Angelo Russell, who's had his moments throughout these playoffs. It is Lonnie Walker who steps up and looks.

It's like the go-to guy down the stretch. Just incredible, incredible. I honestly can't even believe it happened. I mean, I was watching the game with a long-time video producer at the ringer Richie, and we're like screaming together watching this because Lonnie Walker. I mean, like you said, Chris, you list all those names and all the possibilities of guys who can go off. You don't expect Lonnie Walker. The thing is, though, is this does follow a trend for the Lakers, though.

I mean, we've talked about it all postseason. Sometimes it's Tilo. Sometimes it's Reeves. Sometimes it's Rui Hatrimura. It's not like Lonnie Walker is some scrub. He was playing 25 minutes per game for the Spurs just two seasons ago. So I think with the Lakers, this is a surprise that it's Lonnie Walker. It's a surprise that he was as dominant as he was in the fourth quarter,

unable to miss anything. But at the same time, this is what it's been all postseason long for the Lakers, ever since the trade deadline. Everybody that they acquired, they now have a team with a lot of options and different guys that they can turn to. And Adi and LeBron, you know, at times deferring to Reeves in game one against Memphis, to Rui and moments, and Delo, and now Lonnie Walker, it follows the trend of this Lakers team, I feel like.

Do you think it was Lonnie Walker, or do you think it was anybody that could get switched on to Steph Curry was going to light his ass up? My God. Curry was amazing on the offensive end. but they bum hunted him into oblivion in that fourth quarter. Holy macro. Backing him down on the post and everything. I mean,

and just every time if they get a switch on to LeBron, they get a switch on. I mean, Lonnie Walker, I mean, you can go back and watch the highlights. I don't know if Lonnie Walker got a bucket that wasn't on Curry. Like, it was crazy.

And they really put the focus on him, and they just wore that out. On the other side, you had virtually the whole game, Stan Van Gundy, who's coming from a coach's perspective, barking the entire game, why have they gone away from the step pick and roll? Why have they gone away from the step pick and roll? It really did feel like Golden State was getting great shots, and that was just working.

That as the offense. Now, that is not how they typically function as a team. but it was certainly what was working. And I do think that you saw one team go very heavy with that in Golden State, and it worked to great success, and then really get away from it in some critical times, whereas the flip side, the Lakers found something that worked, which was putting Steph into every single action, and they just buried them with it. Yeah, I mean, both these teams, like you got, they're making adjustments.

Like, in some ways, this is a game four. It felt like a game six or seven in terms of all the adjustments that went into the game. You know, like you got the Warriors starting Gary Baton, and they're just attacking 80 possession after possession. Steph Curry running 25 pick and rolls in the first half, just going at them constantly. And then the second half, like you're saying, you know, the Lakers on, when they're on offense, they're attacking Steph Curry, possession after possession, backing them down with LeBron James or Lonnie Walker,

whoever it is. But then on defense, they got 80, you know, off of Peyton and putting him on Andrew Wiggins. And it seemed like the Warriors were more reluctant to have Wiggins screen for Curry. And granted they did. I mean, look, you know, Steph ended up with 49 pick and rolls in the game, according to Second Spectrum, which is a season high. You know, he had 42 in that game seven against the Kings in the first round. So he had more in this game four than he has in any other game this entire season. So it's not like they didn't do it. And they did do it 14 times in the fourth quarter. But to your point and to Damien Gundy's point, I agree. Like, it felt like there was

moments especially early in the fourth quarter that they weren't going to that when it's like, what happened? This is what has you in the game. I think, well, and frankly, I think the reason it was so glaring is because in the moments that they did use it, it worked a tremendous success. And when they didn't, it stood out so much because they took dog crap shots. Oh, I know.

Their offense fell apart. This is a team that's got rings. They've been in a million big games. They've been in this spot. And the shots that they got down the stretch, the turnovers that they committed were just, that is like first year playoff team stuff. It was bizarre.

Chris, they were Jordan Pool inspired turnovers. Oh, my God. How about at the top of the key, how about the one at the top of the key where they just get Moses Moody stuck on an island? And they're just covering up. Moses Moody's got a dribble picked up 10 feet beyond the three point line. He can't find anybody to throw it to. Finally gets it off to Clay who's got to heave up like a 35 footer, you know, in order to beat the shot clock. And then Clay who hit the one from the corner, I under.

understand, but had been virtually insignificant all evening. I don't know what the hell that shot. He took it, 140 was. Oh, like the 34 footer or something like that from the right wing? Terrible. Oh, no, no, no. That was the moody one. I'm talking about even the next one, the one on the left side, where he pulled up.

And I'm like, I mean, geez Louise, like they were just. And then the Draymond turnover, even the Steph turnover. after they got the jump ball. Just wild stuff that took place. I mean, look, they got a chance to go tie that game. Dremont drives underneath the basket, gets caught up in the air,

and she throws it to the other team. They were lucky to get a jump ball out of that. Verno, that play call by the Warriors of 15 seconds left, the one you're talking about when Dremon threw it away. That play call is like a, it's called hammer. That's something the Spurs ran a lot over the year.

it's called Hammer and LeBron snuffed that out calling for the switch A.D. switched onto the corner onto Clay Thompson was coming off a screen. Pro tip to the Warriors don't call a play called Hammer against the team

coached by Darwin Ham the guy who created the play and it's named after. Don't do that with 15 seconds left in the game. Lakers snuffed it out. No big surprise there. Well and look, the Warriors are right there,

had a chance to win that game, some ridiculous possessions down the stretch. And, you know, I'm trying to collect my thoughts as we just got done watching this game. It's all so fresh. But honestly, if I said, who else played well for the Warriors? Curry had this monster night,

31, 14 assist, 10 rebounds. You can't even think of another guy that you thought played well on that team. And his playmaking was just absolutely exquisite. Like, that's just the word that comes to mind. Like, some of the plays he made off the bounce which is absolutely beautiful. But I mean, you're right.

Like just looking down the box score. I mean, just thinking about the game, there's nobody that I could say, hey, they played really good. Gary Payton in the first half, the finishes at the rim. You know, Peyton played pretty well. Oh, well, holding his barf into his mouth,

unbelievable play. That was the play of the game. Unbelievable to hold his barf in his mouth. Better than Ronnie Walker. What's he barfing for that quick? A game just started. Draymond waited until the last play Barf all over himself

Podcast about that Oh poor Draymond Catching strays from Eberto But no you're right You're right Like Clay 3 of 11 Wiggins 6 of 14 I mean down 3 1 now

You can't You can't bury Stephen Curry and the Warriors Until you know The series is out actually over. But the way this Lakers team, they just feel like LeBron talking after the game, how locked in they are. He sounds the same after this win as he did after game one. This team is locked in. I think, you know, Darvindham, say what you want about them with some of the

decisions that have been made over the course of the season, some rotation decisions. I felt like they've pulled a lot of the right strings in those playoffs against the Grizzlies, now against the Warriors. And they're getting, you know, unbelievable contributions. A.D. And they're that second half is like totally ignored on offense. But it seemed like I felt like he was exhausted and it was by design that they moved away from him on offense because they needed him to conserve every single ounce of energy that he could on defense. And he needed it on those plays late in the fourth quarter on the switches against Stefan Curry. I just think the stuff like that, everything we've talked about already, you know, with what the Lakers did, they just feel

like a deep team with a bunch of locked in motivated players and a staff. that's pulling the right strings against this warrior's team that has some flaws that are able to be exploited compared to last runs that they've had in past seasons. I'm absolutely with you on this. And Darvinham deserves a tremendous amount of credit because it's not easy to do this, but he'll bail on these guys.

Russell ain't got it going. You're not playing down the stretch. Vanderbilt, you're not playing down the stretch. 11 minutes for Vando. And he plays a huge role early in the series. And there's been some really big Hachumura games. You'll play 13 and he ain't taking that many shots, right? 100%.

That's not an easy thing to do. Usually these guys just go back to their starters. It's who they trust. It's the unit that's in. And even on the flip side, I'll give Kerr a little credit. He finally just bailed on pool. He finally just said, enough is enough. It's moody down the stretch.

He's a minus six and 10 minutes with two turnovers, multiple mistakes on defense. I mean, after everything he did, last season and the progress that he made. I wrote like a whole article about Jordan Poole's progress and made a whole video about Jordan Poole's progress last year, but it feels like

ever since he got, you know, in that Boston series in the finals, granted the Warriors when it pool was not that effective. They exploited him on defense. Ever since that, ever since the Dramon punch before the season. This year, like, on the surface, it's like, oh, 20 points per game.

You know, he's making progress. But the decision making, the defense, in the streaky shooting, like he's just unplayable in the playoffs right now for now two years in a row. He's legitimately one of the worst defenders in the entire league. Awful.

Spacey, he doesn't move on ball well. Like, he's just bad in every single category on the defensive end. Going to be a tough contract to trade too. Woo! Oh, my God. What is he? 140 million over four years.

Who wants that? Oh, boy, might have some Gary Payton reactions if you make that an offer on the table. You very well, Hey, look, they did a decent job. Like, you know, LeBron and AD, they're playing 42, 43 minutes each, um, hilariously with four minutes left to go in the two-point game, LeBron going to the sideline, and then never even sitting down and coming back to the score

table and going right back into the game. Rui Hachamper didn't even get to, he didn't even get to jog up and down the court because I think it was a dead ball. What was that? I have no idea. Just something on the side, sideline. I just pulled up the...

I think maybe he thought they were winning. Yeah, LaBron. And then he looked up with the scoreboard. He's like, oh, hell, I can't sit down. We're down. He checked out at 605, and he checked back in at 552. I mean, it really, like, look,

that's what it felt like. It felt like he looked up at the scoreboard, and he saw whatever it was, 94, 92, I think it was at the time. And he looked up at the scoreboard, and he's like, yeah, no. because, like, honestly, look, this was a one possession game. It landed 104 to 101.

So even being out for one possession could have cost them. It really could have. And so he's like, no, there's four minutes left to go in the game. I can make it four more minutes. Man, that was a great game. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time watching that game. That was just a hell of a lot of fun. That was playoff basketball at its finest,

at its funnest. A lot of sloppy plays, a lot of incredible. incredible plays, surprising plays. Man, I had a great time. Well, and Lonnie Walker, my God. Oh, my, yeah. Something else. I mean, you know, and they were saying this after the game.

And I agreed to this. The announcers were saying, this is an unbelievable example for any kid. Yeah. That is on any bench, anywhere. Stay ready. Yeah, stay ready. Stay focused. You're going to get your opportunity.

And when your opportunity comes, are you going to be able to make the most of it? And this is making the most of it 50-fold. Like it really is something that you can go do speeches about. Like that time where I didn't even touch the floor. You could be a real inspiration to a lot of kids out there that are not getting run. And then they get their opportunity and look at what happens.

In a critical game in the playoffs, the guy comes off the bench and gets 15, points in the fourth quarter. Unbelievable. It's the coolest thing, man. It really is. It's an amazing story. You know, it really is. You know, regardless of how these playoffs go for the Lakers, these are the types of moments that you remember as a fan, right?

Yep. I mean, Lonnie Walker stepping up after, you know, like Stan Ben Gunney pointed out during the broadcast, he played very well, you know, during garbage time of that game three. And coaching staff notices that. I'm sure they notice it through scrimmages, you know, the stay ready crew. Like Lonnie Walker's playing well. He seems like he's ready and, you know, he flourished with the opportunity, man, in every way with the defensive plays, some of the passes that he made, and never mind, like, all the shots that he hit. It was, yeah, you're right, Chris. It's inspiring stuff.

And, you know, like we said at the top, it does speak to the theme of this Lakers team where, you know, LeBron James is not what he was on his prime self. A.D., carrying such a load and being attacked so much on defense, I think it's unrealistic to expect him to carry every game. but other Lakers have stepped up, you know, on different nights, and tonight was the Lonnie Walker game. Well, and now the Warriors are really up against it. We know all the stats about being down 3-1.

This series is playing out a lot like the Memphis series did for the Lakers last round. Because the same situation, it's 3-1. Much like that one, Golden State is great at home. I don't think that the Lakers will have. I know they're going to say all the right things, but this is a team that's got, you know, serious championship pedigree. They're going to be back in their house to keep their season alive. I certainly would expect the Warriors to rebound and have a great game five and force a game six,

but then that's the position you're in. You're having to go back to that arena and that street will be what everybody ends up talking about, which is, I think it's 28 straight. series over this that they have won a road game. Well, the streak has never been in greater peril, probably than right now, because their only chance to get that game seven in their place is not only to take care of business and win game five,

but they're going to have to extend that streak. They're going to have to get that one on the road, and it's going to have to be a game six where I mean, you'll get just an absolute grand slam effort out of the Lakers in that game. You saw the game six. They beat Memphis by 40. I mean, you are. You're up against it.

Now that they, look, no matter what happens in that next game, that's what I'm saying, I don't think it really matters in a huge way to the Lakers to win five. Because they know they now have the home court. They can close out that series on their home. own floor. It does matter for rest, though, Chris. It does. Like, doesn't it matter for this older team?

We're talking about 80 taking off offense in the second half. Like, getting that rest does matter for the Lakers, assuming, you know, because of Phoenix and Denver, like, let's say the Lakers do finish this off on Wednesday. If they finish that off on Wednesday, there's a real chance that Sun's Nugget series doesn't finish until Sunday, which would mean game one isn't until next Tuesday. they could have an entire week off before next round and be in a similar situation that they were in like this round because they finished off the grizzlies earlier,

then the Warriors are coming in with just a day rest. Like that is where I think a difference could be gained here for the Lakers to finish this out sooner than later. I just don't think that they'll have that. Like, you can't replicate must win psychologically. I know. It's tough, man. You know what I mean? Look, my whole season and my legacy

as a team and this as a unit is all on the line versus, hey, we can get a couple more days' rest. Like, the motivations are greatly different. You can't replicate that. You're right. And that's their, it really is. Like, if they got wiped out in five games, like, you already know, the Bob Meyer stuff's been out there all year. You got this new salary cap. crap that's about to hit them harder than hell.

They're about to have to pay Jordan Pool $140 million. There's a lot on the table, man. And Draymond, you know, contract coming up on the wrong side of 30. Granted, he's still a great player. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. I mean, we've seen what Draymond looks like when he's a little bit out of shape just two years ago, right?

Like, didn't we just see that? Well, I mean, there's a lot of risks involved. Look, we talk about this all the time. The margins are so thin. They are. I mean, I thought that Curry, I thought the Curry one that he backed up against Anthony Davis. I thought he's dropping that.

Oh, yeah. And if he drops that, this whole podcast is about, oh my God, Steph Curry, the brilliance of Steph Curry. I mean, we're literally, everything changes on a Steph Curry 35 footer. Well, that's the thing, though. Like Steph in many ways, doesn't he feel greater than ever? At this point, at 35 years old, he comes back stronger, better at finishing at the basket. He's still very good defensively at 6'3-3.

His playmaking is on another level. You see what he can do when he's running pick and roll at a higher volume than the Warriors' offense, the Kerr office typically allows him. I'm not saying they should do that more. I'm just saying, like, statistically, you can see. the numbers that he puts up when he drops 50 in Game 7 against the Kings. Tonight is he just didn't have his efficiency from

three, three or 14 from behind the arc in the game. But he was dominant for mid-range, dominant at the rim, and dominant as a playmaker. I just feel like Steph is more complete than he's ever been, which is why there's so much urgency for the Warriors here. But, I mean, we'll talk more about Warriors' future

stuff if the series does end negatively for Golden State of course. Here's the other problem. Yes, it does feel like he is at peak of powers as good as he's ever been. The problem is the drop-off because there's nobody else even close to him anymore.

He doesn't have the support around him anymore. And I forget who said it. I think it was Van Gundy during the game. He's like, the Warriors have always been a high turnover team, but the margins are slimmer than they used to be considering how defenses play. They know the Warriors style.

They're shooting more threes now. They're playing more of analytically, you know, savvy way. So, like, the margins aren't as wide as they use to move for the Warriors because of the talent, like you say, with Clay, Draymond, all these guys, no Igwadala in his prime, no Sean Livingston. Like, all those

guys are gone. But even just the Clay thing, you know, LeBron's got AD. There's no question who the two best players on that team are. And then you kind of filter down from there. Like, Clay was always right there with Curry.

In fact, one night he might have 37 and a quarter. And that's not the same anymore. I mean, he did in game two. I know, but that. Eight for 11 from three in game two. But that was a bona fide pedestrian player tonight. Yeah, he was.

Until he had that three in the corner. I mean, he was just wildly insignificant in this game. It was really a completely forgettable night by Clay Thompson. The NBA playoffs are in full swing and you can turn crossovers into cash with Fandul. Just visit Fandul.com slash mismatch right now and place a $5 bet and you'll get an instant $150 bucks in bonus bets win or lose. On Fandle, there's a bunch of other ways to bet with same game parlayes. You can go with player props like points, rebounds, assists, and threes. There's exclusive Fandul markets like largest comeback or most dunks. There's no better place

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wants to erase every article and word uttered about them after their playing in game against Atlanta. No, no, no. Even after their playing game against Atlanta, it was like, what the hell? Clint Capella's got 22 rebounds. It's like they just, you know, damn

out of bio looks like he's all alone down there. How does a team go from losing one playing game to being down double digits in the fourth quarter of their second playing game and now they're up three one in the second round the round after upsetting an eight scene. Like how does

this happen? Stay ready so you don't have to get ready. It's Lonnie Walker in the Miami Heat. I mean, look, there's not a court this guy is on that Jimmy Butler's not the best player in the world right now. Until he gets on a court with maybe

Ben and Booker. No, I said until he gets on a court with maybe Booker or Yokic. But, I mean, there's nobody in the east that I'd rather have right now. closest would be Tatum. Yeah, and Tatum, you know, up the line as well.

Right, but you've got, you got Jimmy Butler and then the rest. And let me tell you something. Out of Bio's been outstanding. Outstanding. Bam, bam, 13 rebounds tonight, 22 points, hit the big mid-range jumper down the stretch of the game. I mean, and he's just, I mean, he's done it in some different ways over the course of the last, over the course of this series and, you know, that whole team

just, look, this one was flipped on the offensive rebounding. Oh, my God. It really is just, we play harder than you. And chasing down, all those long rebounds around the elbow. I mean, like,

doesn't it feel like the way the Knicks were rebounding against the Cavs last round, the way Miami's just chasing everything down? And, yes, the tougher, rougher team, like, all right, this is a street fight. Every ball that comes off the rim, we're going for it every time. And if it's Kyle Lowry, if it's Caleb Martin, and they play with, like, no fear. Tibado's just probably walking the streets of Miami right now, just kicking, kicking people.

You know what I mean is he walking behind him. He can't, he can't believe what a bunch of wussies he's got on his team, it feels like, you know. Isn't that what it feels like? He's got to be just losing his mind watching them. Because this is a small team. This is just fight, really. It is. They really are just fight.

I'd be curious about, like, is there anything that they heat are doing from a game plan perspective with these rebounds? Because I was thinking about it during the game about this old article. I think it was Kurt Goldsbury wrote, at the Grantland days about, like, where rebounds land based off where their shot is taken. Like, if you take a shot from the left corner, it's more likely to ricochet towards the right side of the court. I wonder if there's anything at all that the heat are doing from, like, court mapping, or is this just pure instinct, pure hustle, pure... You know what I think it is?

And I think this is very different than how a lot of teams operate. A lot of things operate where the lion's share of rebounds are going to go to a few guys, right? Yeah. And this is everybody. Everybody on the team. Well, Jimmy Butler's got six. Out of Bio's got 13. Max Truce has six.

Kevin Love has five. Caleb Martin has five. Kyle Lowry has five. I mean, all those guys with five or more rebounds, that's just not common. You've got, you typically one guy, like say in the case of Mitchell Robinson or somebody. or Julius Randall, that they're going to get the lion's share of rebounds in the game. But these guys, I mean, it's like even if you get them to miss, they are just flying to that rebound. It's like they all take it upon themselves.

And because of the type of guy that they get, these guys are rough dudes now. Like all of them are ready to, they're not. they're not shrink of violence when that ball comes off the rim. Like, all right, it's my job. Everybody's got to pitch in on this. And they do. They all pitch in on it. And so you finally get them to miss a three and frigging Kyle Lowry flies in the middle of three guys and snatches a rebound.

It's like it really is a want it more thing. And it's just I think they've put the, I think they put the onus on all of them to do it. And so they're all doing it. Yeah, for no doubt about it. I mean, I think that's what it is. I'm just asking because the heat is such a smart organization. I just wonder if there's anything at all that they're doing in terms of like, hey, this is where to be for these rebounds, whereas the Knicks,

it's not like they don't have heart. It's not like the Knicks haven't proven that they're a tough, gritty team, but they're just getting beat to those balls so consistently in every single situation. And, I mean, I feel like, you know, that's what gave the Knicks an edge over the Cavs was that ed like the offensive rebounding the grit that they have the toughness that they have and now against the heat they're getting beat there and the nicks suddenly i feel like there's there's no way they come back from down three one in this series jalen brunson you got him on defense getting attacked more than he has ever all season he's such a small

target they're going at him in that first half and then the second half of that entire game again, you're shooting, you are a below top 10, bottom 10 and 3 point percentage over the course of the season. You shoot 32% tonight. You haven't shot the ball well in the playoffs at all, despite advancing last round. I just don't feel like they have enough firepower on the offensive end. And, you know, Julius Randall, you look at his numbers on the box score,

you see 20 points, nine rebounds. You're like, okay, you know, solid nine, eight to 13, but the six turnovers, the six personal files, he's just not the guy on defense. He's the turnovers. That is the most, that is the most, that is great of an example of a boxboard that doesn't tell the story. He's an 82 game player is what it appears to be.

This is the second playoff or he's been a total dud. He was worse last time than he has been this time. But once again, he is not meeting the expectations that he set for himself after great regular seasons. It's just not a playoff guy. Simple as that. Well, and that's the other thing. is the difference, Kiv,

between these teams. His body language, like when things aren't going his way, it just, it feels so draining. It drains me watching on TV. It's the end of the world. Every time something doesn't go right,

just head down and it's like, it just feels like you got to like constantly, like you need a counselor on the bench for it. What was it? Was it after game one? Was it after game one this round? No, he didn't play game one. No, no.

Game two, was it after game two, whatever. It was after a win the Knicks had, either against the Cavs or this round. I think it was game two then. Yeah. Where after the game, he skipped down on doing media after because he wasn't happy, even though his team won. You remember that?

It's like stuff like that. He's just so moody. You just can't trust him. He just can't trust Julius Randall. No. Then, you know, and look, Brunton's there for it. Yeah, he is.

He's there for it. It wasn't his fault. Can't do it all alone, though. I mean, he's got. 32 and 11. He's going to the line double-digit amount of times, and it's like, all right, who's with me? And then he probably looks around. He's like, well, thanks for hitting some shots, RJ.

I mean, yeah, RJ did some stuff. But yeah, he, like, I think that's one thing we've learned this postseason and last year. Jalen Brunson's that guy. Jalen Brunson is somebody that you can rely on to generate offense for you in the toughest matchups and the toughest situations. He's got some weaknesses on

defense teams can exploit him because he's so much smaller, you know, than mostly everybody else on the court. But offensively, he's that guy. So for the Knicks, you know, again, we'll talk more about like post-mortem stuff once the series is actually over assuming the Knicks lose. But I think it's about what can we find if we're the Knicks to support Jalen Brunson because he is somebody that we can rely on in these big games. Absolutely. And it's a huge step in the right direction. You feel like you found something for the future that you've got to go with. And look, they're not dead yet, but they're close. And when you watch a game like that,

and it ends up being decided by eight points, it's always trite to say that, well, they just wanted it more. But in a game that close, it's 13 to 8 in offensive rebounds. He wanted it more. Most of those come. I mean, in a game that close,

when the offensive rebounding are 13 to 8 and the turnovers are 16 to 8, 12, you could really just look at those two numbers, right? Because the margins are not going to be huge on either side. And you figure you would get just a massive home run game. This was, it should have been the Knicks home run game to stay alive because you sure as hell don't want to go down 3-1. And this story of this Miami Heat team is just freakish, like truly. They're knocking on the door of the East Finals.

It's crazy. I know. East finals, and they lost Tyler Hero at the very beginning of this deal. All the depots, you know, leaving on crutches in one of those. And, I mean, it's like, what does it matter? Just plug and play. Hero, I mean, he was four to six weeks three weeks ago. So, I mean, the longer Miami goes, the higher percent chance they're going to get one of their top scorers back.

But, I mean, we'll see it. They could end up six weeks for him. And that's pushing it towards the final. at that point. So we'll see. I mean, but Miami's knocking on the door of these finals,

man, who would have thought except for maybe Jimmy Butler when he's doing his regular season? I'm not taking a ton of shots thing. I'll wait to be Michael Jordan for the playoffs. Who would have thought

except for Jimmy Butler? And you too, Chris Vernon, I gotta give you credit I say it on every podcast with you. You say it all year long. This heat team in the regular season, you can't judge them.

You can't judge the heat. Because Jimmy Butler's not doing what he does in the playoffs. And boom, here we are. Jimmy Butler is. best player on the court one of the best players in the postseason

maybe second or third behind like you said Booker and Yokic and that's about it. He's I mean he's it's amazing watching him every single playoffs turn it up and even in this round Chris 16 shots

21 shots 17 shots 17 shots in his three games he had 33 in game 5 against Milwaukee 28 in the game prior to that he has yet to have to eclipse 25 shots. He can still do even more. Well, and I don't know if you saw that

the video that was going around earlier today, but it was from the Locked On Heat podcast. And so one of the guys on there, David Rammel, who said he was back near the locker room after their game three win. And Jimmy Butler yelled, I'm the best effing player in the world. Double teams, triple teams, it don't matter. I was like, yo, what?

And I'm not going to be there to disagree with Jimmy. We don't want to make it sound too daunting for Nick's fans, but. It's daunting, Chris. I mean, we can, it's daunting. It's very daunting. Well, just hear me out. Okay. The heat have led in a best of seven series three to one, 14 times.

They are 14 and 0. The Knicks have trailed in a best of seven series three to one, 14 times. They are 0 and 14. Okay. Oh, yeah, it's very daunting. Okay. I guess it is.

Oh, okay. I guess it is. Now that I see that. Okay. That seems rather... Now we know, because of history. They had to get this one. Yeah.

They had to get this one. They had to get this. I know. To have a chance in the series. And it's going to be... It's good. Maybe they could get one for the fans at MSG. You know what I mean?

At least make Miami do it at home. Make it interesting. In a game six. Of the teams that went down 3-1 tonight, I certainly feel much better about the Warriors' chances in game five. Then I do the Knicks. But, you know, hopefully we get two game sixes out of those two series. Because we only have, we've got the one guaranteed between, I guess we've got two of them.

We've got two game sixes already guaranteed because we've got Philly and Boston that's guaranteed already in Denver and Phoenix, both series that we're going to be talking about coming up. But if those two, if the Knicks could win the home game, if the Warriors could win the home game, if the Warriors could win the home game. then we'd get four game sixes in round two. We only got one game seven in round one. Yeah, not a lot. I'd like to see another one, at least in... Nothing better than game sevens. Yeah, one or two of these series.

All right, Kevin, let's get to the other series. We'll start with Phoenix last night, getting a win over Denver and nodding that series up. I got to be honest with you, that was one of the most entertaining basketball games I have seen in a long, long time. Watching those two, Booker and Yokic go back and forth in that third quarter, there were, I don't have a rooting interest in this deal. And there were three times where I jumped off my couch. there were another three where I yelled and my son ran in the room to see what I had yelled about.

I'm like, the degree of difficulty of these shots that these guys are making is just absurd. And, you know, I tweeted out, we're watching two guys that are two of the best offensive players ever at the absolute peak of powers. And that's not even to mention Durant and Murray and what. they were doing as kind of the sidekicks where it kind of turns into, here you got these two on this side, those two on that side, and we'll see who steps up on the rest of the team. And at least for game four, it was not the Denver Nuggets who will have lauded as the team with more depth. The Sons, not only did they get that amazing performance out of both of their

stars, they were the ones that for one night looked like the deeper team, which is, that's what was kind of shocking to me. What were your biggest takeaways? I mean, Booker, first of all, Chris, yeah, like I was yelling at my TV watching book. Just unbelievable what he's doing right now. Just absolutely sensational. Like he's 34 out of 43 over games three and four. It's just absurd. Like we've never, we literally have never seen anything like this with what's happening right now. And I know Tim McMahon tweeted out the stat this morning

how he's the first player in postseason history to score over 300 points over his first nine postseason games with a true shooting person is over 70. Like he's Michael Jordan and LeBron James are the only guys to do this over a nine game period at any point in the postseason.

Like what Booker is doing is absolutely wild. In that game though, Chris, like you're right. Phoenix felt like the team that had better depth. And I think, you know, Monty Williams, those first two games, he's playing Wainwright and Craig and these non-shooters out there on the floor, you know, Okogee. And now you're seeing him put out Terrence Ross and T.J. Warren. Landry Shamid, of course, just caught fire and had a massive game. But that tweak that happened in game three, putting shooters around Booker and Durant, rather than non-shooters,

It's a simple thing. Like what the Nuggets were doing is they had, you know, they were clogging the paint, you know, taken away driving lanes and the kickout options were insignificant. They weren't even worried about closing out. Now you get, you know, major concerns. Like Warren at those floaters in the pull up in game three, Shamit goes off in game four.

It's like Phoenix has created a problem for Denver like Yokic does for opponents. Because if you double Yokic, you're in trouble. He's going to find the open man. If you don't double Yokchch, you're in trouble because he's going to crush you. Like he dominates in single coverage. He dominates no matter what you do against him. Now with Booker and Duran, if you're doubling those guys throughout the game, now they have guys they can kick it out to if you put two on them.

So that, to me, that's the big thing now. What does Denver do defensively? Did they stick with that defense one game too long? Should they have changed in game four, probably? But now in game five, what are they going to do? They're going to give those guys single coverage when they're shredding you already? Or are you going to continue doubling in a more creative way? I guess there would be, look, you're going to make your adjustments for sure.

They did as the game went on. One of the plays where I went crazy was when Michael Malone is literally running up the sidelines, as animated as you can be, calling for a double team. And as the second guy gets to Booker, Booker just pulls up in the face of both of them. And I was like, come on, come on. Another time. Oh, was that the three-pointer? Like, oh, my God.

Top of the key. Right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you watch it back, Malone is literally got his arm spread out. And he's screaming at everyone. Then another time he split this double in this crazy way. And so, look, you're going to adjust. Obviously, they attempted to as the game went on.

Shamet hit the big shots. I think one of the things you bank on if you're Denver. If you're trying to feel good, you go. This is just unsustainable. As unbelievable as it is, like a guy cannot shoot 69%. In the last two games, it's 79% that Booker is shooting. You're right. It's unsustainable, but even if he cools off, though,

could Durant be the guy who heats up even more? And I think the other thing is, the other guys, your guys, your extra guys will play better at home. Their extra guys will not play as well on the road. That is typically what takes place in these scenarios. Now, to your point about switching up the personnel, you know, I went and pulled the lineup data just, you know, we only have small sample sizes, right?

Everything's small sample size, but I do think it tells the story. everything with pain and a kogi and that whole group that was going at the beginning obviously got slaughtered right but some of those like it's almost like you can flip out pain and a kogi and then lessen aaten and shamit warren and landel become those guys like you have less minutes you know you you you you're back on the eight minutes. Maybe you upwind Dell a little bit because the numbers with him on the court are very, very good. And then you're just flipping out a couple guys.

And like you say, if I need an eighth guy, then Terrence Ross could give me some run. But those other guys, you know, he saw, Tori Craig had a really good series in that first series. He's just abandoned. He's like not playing at all. And so these other guys, you just bail on them. And you roll with Shamet,

You roll with Warren, you roll with Landel, and you roll with Ross. And obviously, that's not taking Aiton out of it completely, but lessening him doesn't seem to be any problem. Ait Aiton finished that game strong. Got to give him credit. Aetton after, you know, really struggling throughout the entire series, throughout the whole playoffs of that matter and much of the regular season, he finished that last stint pretty well. Got to give him credit for the fourth quarter. He played well.

But Landel's been good for them. that's been surprising to me, but the numbers with him on the court have been very, very good. And so I think that, you know, we talked about this at the beginning of the playoffs. These teams, both individually and as a team, all of your weaknesses will be exposed.

When somebody is on the other side that is game planning specifically against you, they're going to take away what you're good at. and the more guys you can get on the court that have to be guarded. It's a lesson in all of these series. It's what pulls the rim protection away from the basket. And it is also what provides teams the ability to, if their stars do, start getting swarmed,

that if you've got the Landry Shamitz and the T.J. Warren's, guys that can get you a bucket if they're given the opportunity. Now, we'll see. Those guys could go cold again, but at the beginning of this series, those guys, the bench, did literally nothing. Nothing. Yeah. Well, I mean, and that's the thing. Like, that's the difference now. These guys are at at least threats. They're just at least like you have to worry about T.J. Warren, Landry Shaman and Terrence Ross. And that's a big difference compared to Wainwright, Craig, and Akogi. And granted, O'Kogi is still playing. He's only down to 17 minutes. Craig's, you know, playing zero minutes.

And Wainwright's riding the bench at this point. Yeah, I know what. So that's a huge change for the suns. And that creates more of a difficult, you know, equation for the nuggets to solve here. And I think you're right, Chris, like Booker and some of these guys should cool off for Phoenix. They should.

Maybe. I mean, we'll say, like, you know, if you know what those scores, they should be like, but even if it's just one more, if it's one more game that he carries this over, that's one more game over just setting. games. Well, I think it's just six.

He will cool off, but it's just a matter of when he cools off. I mean, my best guess, look, Denver is better. They're the better team. They are. I think you can say it was, what, 86 points one game, 70-something, the next game, you know, for those guys. And you got Landry Shammit hitting those shots, T.J. Warding those shots. The better team doesn't always win, though. I agree.

I don't always win. But it took all of. of that for them to get that win over Denver. I know. And I know Yokic had a huge game. He had 53 on 20 of 30. It was an unbelievable game for Yokic too. Like some of the shots,

he is like, Katie after the game was saying like how frustrating it is. Oh. When Yokic is hitting those shots, I mean, like those little floaters that he takes in the paint, it's wild. On the flip side. So I said I jumped out of my chair when Booker pulled it on the double team.

And it went because he had already been just so pistol hot already. The one with Yokic that got me was the back down from like 25 feet away. He's like backing the guy down, getting bumped. And then he does the turnaround jumper and gets bumped and then just chucks it at the rim. And it goes, I'm like, come. Like, okay, this guy can't miss. He can't miss. That is impossible.

And, you know, inside, outside, threes, everything. I mean, he was just unbelievable. And you saw it down the stretch. I mean, they really made Phoenix make a lot of plays. Now, I'm not, this is a great series, great, great series. And those last two games have been wildly entertaining. I just, man, it just, I can't fathom a guy making 80% of his shots.

It's not like the guy's Janice, where everything's bully ball, you know, layups and free throws and dunks. Like, they're all jumpers, it feels like. And a lot of them are just under serious duress. And so, I don't know. I love it. I'm glad I get to just sit back and enjoy it. of just, it just goes against all the math that that should be sustainable. But at some point, the guy is averaging like 37 or 38 points per game on 69% through nine

playoff games. He's a nice player. He's a nice player. Such a nice player. Oh, you know the other thing? We need to talk about this. How about Paul being gone? I mean, the fact that the ball moves.

Hey, another one that I was, when we're talking about guys being guarded, you're not worried about Chris Paul shooting threes. No, like he, no, he's not like a high volume guy off the catch. He's more deliberate with his motion. And you will remember that, because you talked about this a lot, Kemp, when Paul went out, the best thing that ever happened was Paul going out. And Booker, remember when he had that run with the hugeest, Oh, yeah, for sure.

Yo, he can have the ball in his hands. Dude, it wasn't Booker's playmaking down the stretch of that game. Like, some of them are like doubles, simple reads, but some of them are, I'm going to draw this defense and create a passing angle and then kick it out to the corner. And, like, he was,

I thought he was magnificent as a playmaker in that fourth quarter. Well, and I feel like Shamit kind of knows his role where it's like he'll just get rid of the ball and then he'll go spot up. and that's just kind of what he's going to do. And then the other times, as long as it's not like campaign, obviously the campaign stuff has killed them.

But the ball is in the hands of a guy that's keeping it moving or it's in the hands of Devin Booker. Should they bring Chris Paul off the bench when he comes back, if he comes back? No, you can't. No. You can't. Why not?

Why can't you? You can't do that. Why can't, why can't you do it? because he's the leader of the team. Let's be honest. But why can't, if you're Chris, he's not coming back anyway.

But why can't, if he does, let's just assume he does. Let's assume he comes back game six. Let's just assume. Why not have him come off the bench for like 20 minutes? Look, I don't think it's as much about Paul.

It's not as much about Paul as it is about the other guys. Because if you go pull the numbers with Paul Booker and Durant on the court, they've been amazing. Even in this series. But they just won the, Two games in a row without him, and the ball's moving much better through Booker's hands than if you stagger Booker and Paul, have Paul come off the bench and run the show alongside KD?

To me, that's the way to go. Or if he does start, he's a quick pull, and then you bring him on, like, in those bench units. I got to be honest with you. I don't even think they're going to have to mess with this. So, yeah, he's just going to be out. He's going to be out, bro. Like, every time we, how many times do we talk about this? Hamstrings and groins.

I know. Bye. It's never, ever sooner than you think. Yeah, you're right. And it's always longer than you think. Yep. As Zion. I mean.

What are you triggering you for? I just happened in January. You know what I mean? Happen in January for goodness sake. I would just say that to me, Chris. You're hurting. Sorry. Sorry.

Too soon? Yeah, too soon. You did a whole song about me at our live show. I understand. What was the line betting on Zion's health? Yeah. Matt Ishbia. That was the other thing that we got talking about.

That was hilarious. As if we weren't entertained enough by the offensive prowess of this group of players, you have Nicola Yokic and Matt Isfia getting into it. Oh, that was beautiful. Here's my opinion on this. I'm glad that Yokic didn't get it. Get suspended. Yeah, I'm so glad.

That would have been ridiculous if you did. That would have been terrible. I'm glad he didn't get ejected either. Would it would have robbed us of an unbelievable game. I also think that any fan that would have grabbed the ball, someone that goes to games all the time, I can envision that happening at a game. That fan would have gotten in trouble for interfering with the game. They just would have.

Like a regular person can't do that. Can't just hold on to the ball. Okay. Then you've got this, like, you've got this group of people that are all, like, it's all heated. They're in the middle of competition. They're all up next to each other.

And then the Yokic, you know, swat away. And the Isbiyah flop was just, Unbelievable. Like, no one has, his arms even went up. No, no one has ever fallen like that.

Like, no one has ever fallen, like no one has ever gotten pushed and been that, it was so exaggerated, it was so extra. It was hilarious. I mean,

it really was hilarious. And I, I, 100% believe that he, put out his tweet, petitioning for Yokic to not get suspended, I would not be surprised if he called the lead and said, please do not suspend him. Because I think twofold, I think he felt bad about, you know, that that was a story, even a story, considering his team success over the last two

games. He didn't want to be involved, you know, but he just happened to be involved. More importantly, he becomes a massive villain and that's all anybody knows of him outside of the people that listened to Bill's podcast when he was a guest. Is he really becoming a villain for that? Was that what your perception to that? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Understand what I'm saying. If Yokic gets suspended, he becomes that. And it also takes away from the sons. He's the guy, though, that got Yokic suspended. Yeah, I agree with you. He's the guy that robbed us of this. Sure.

He's the overzealous, you know, prick owner on the front who snatch the ball away. And that's the only reason that this happened in the first place. And now we're not going to get to see. And the other thing is, if you're him, A, you watch the video back and if you're any kind of normal guy, you're like, oh, Jesus, I look like a fool. And then the second thing is, you're sitting there going. And this is what I would be doing if I were him. I would say I wouldn't want my team to win with the suspended Yokic because then that's always the thing, right?

Like I'm in that history till the end of time. If they find him, they gave him the tech, the damn thing just goes away. And I think if you're him, I truly believe that for competition say, obviously it would be to his advantage if Yokic got suspended. That being said, if you're any kind of guy, you would not want that to be the case. Because now that's etched in history and it has incredible significance. Because this may be the best chance the Nuggets ever have at a title. Yes.

And so, for sure. I mean, there's the number one seed with home court advantage with an amazing home court. This works out better in the sense that now you just get the nuggets like Riled up. They're thinking about other stuff besides the game. They have to spend even an ounce of energy thinking or worrying or stressing or whatever it might be about these shenanigans that went down. To Michael Malone when they told him it was the owner and he said, I don't give a shit. I loved it. It was amazing. He didn't miss a beat saying it either. It was just so funny.

I loved it. I loved it all. I don't know. I just like it. this type of... It was great drama. It was really a great day of basketball. Both games were good. And I think everybody was a little bit worried.

I was worried. I was worried. I was like, don't do this. I know. I know. Just to do the precedent thing. Just because...

Oh, that would have stung. Oh, man. And it's not because I love Yokic. It's because that is such foolishness. What took place on the sideline? Like, if he doesn't... flail like that. It's not as big a deal.

It's just not. The flailing made it a much bigger deal. Yeah, that made it a bigger deal in a sense. If he just moves back. But Yokic did go over there and just rip the ball out of his hands. That alone made it something. Why is the guy holding onto the ball anyway?

Well, I mean, if you watch, I'm not defending him holding the ball, but if you watch the video, the ball kind of just falls into his hands as he's helping his player up. And Yokich, I'm with it. Like he says he ran over because they felt like they had a man advantage. Look, we're both glad. But bottom line, I'm just glad he wasn't suspended.

That's all. Yeah, no, you and I have been both on board of this. It happened with the Draymond stuff where it's like, when you get to this level, it's awful to see things. People to this day still bring up the suns getting suspended against the spurs. Yes. To this day, they bring it up. Yep.

with the Stademeyer deal on the sideline. And it's like, that's forever ago. And we still remember it. And so good thing that they're not. Let's get to Boston and Philly. What a game. I'm going to let you have the floor first. Because, look, used to care about the Celtics very, very deeply.

I've always cared about James Harden very, very deeply. So I got to imagine. Not the way I used to. I mean, it's, no, no, no, no. I said you used to. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, the self-expanding, like, in me in the past is probably slapping me now, you know?

And the fact that I was, the fact that I took so much pleasure in the Lakers beating your grizzlies. I would be. I would be slapping you if I were old Kevin. Yeah. Old Kevin is not happy with me. I wish your mother would. Old Kevin, my younger self, is incredibly happy with me, actually. Your mother has to be just losing my mind, too.

She's ecstatic. And then. So really conflicted, right? She just roots for her baby. Because you've got the you got the Celtics part where there's got to be a portion of your heart that's still a little green. But then you got the hardened, the hardened portion of your heart. You're hardened heart. And so here we are.

This moment in the corner. Do I want James Harding. You think about that in the shower and come up with that then? Yeah. I want James Harden to make this shot in Jalen Brown's face or gnaw? And I got to hear what were the conflicted emotions? I mean, it was just, there's no conflicted emotions. It was just a fantastic game.

Harden going off. I'll always be happy to see Hardin go off. Again, just because of the way you and the media have always disrespected him. Oh, I know. Unbelievable playoff performer, leading the Rockets for years. The only team that really went toe to toe with the Warriors, and yet for whatever reason, he gets disrespected for that, which is such a joke.

Against the Dynasty team. Against the Dynasty. Because it's never do or die games, ever. Did they win to seven? They went to six. Yeah. And then how do he do in those? He still had great games.

He literally set the record for turnovers in the playoffs in one of them. Okay. That's because he had the ball on his hands like 75% of the time. The other one, he got absolutely a mask. by Steph Curry on his home court. But that's either here or there. Just like everybody else. Look, in this series.

Anyway, in this series, Harden game one, as we talked about, unbelievable. Harden game two and three, not so much. Wait, not so much. Actually, he has averaged 43.5 points and six and a half three-pointers in the two victories. In the two losses, 14 points, one three-pointer, and has shot five for 28.

those games. Okay. So, I mean, yes, not, like I said, like I said,

not so much. Not so much. Five from 28. Not so much. Like I said, amazing in game one, not so much in game two and three. Amazing again.

And game four. I feel like one of the common threads for Hardin and his, the difference between one and four compared to two and three is like, he's just like using the mid-range. He's looking for his floater, looking for that little pull-up inside.

He's playing with better aggression, more consistently throughout the game. He was awesome in that game. He was outstanding in the pick-and-roll with Joel Embed with with Paul Reed and limited minutes, whoever he was sharing the floor with. Hardin was unbelievable. I think for Boston at this point,

what do you do defensively? Do you continue playing your standard conventional coverage kind of dropping with Horford or whoever it is defending Embed? Anytime you switch, you got shred. Hardin, you know, got by Grant Williams, you got by Brogden. He got by, you know, Horford and that floater that he had at the end of regulation. So I feel the Celtics at this point, now that you're not able to help off of Tucker

and some of these non-shooters quite as much as you did in the first two games, because those guys are actually taking shots now. What do you do if you're Boston? It's, you know, it's going to be very interesting to see what Missoula does. Who, by the way, in that game, you want to talk about, you know, feelings, you know, I think with Missoula all year long, said it on this part before. Bill Simmons was ahead of the curve on Missoula, saying this guy doesn't know how to manage a game, he doesn't know how to use

timeouts. Like somehow he still finished his third and coach of the year voting. I think that game four against Philadelphia showed why that that's, you know, kind of shocking to me that he did. You know, everything that Bill, you know, has been talking about throughout the season on his pod manifested in that fourth quarter. I mean, like he's saying, oh, it's hindsight, it's 20-20. How do you not call a timeout? How do you not call a time out at the end of that game there? I don't get it.

I mean, I understand the philosophy of not wanting to your players, the other team to be able to set up a defense. Yeah, but your offense is self-admitted according to Marcus Smart random. You really trust them to get a good quality shot there. They didn't even get a shot off in overtime. And they got a market, like, if the shot ends up at Marcus Smart's hands at the end of regulation, a 33% shooter from three, that's not a good result. Look. That last play, that's Tatum's fault.

End of story. Yeah, but it's Tatum's fault. No, it's Tatum's fault. I agree. It's Tatum's fault, but it's more the coaches fault for putting his player at a position to have to make that decision. It's Tatum's fault, bro. It's shared fault. All right.

Let's say, let's say. Hey, if Tatum pulls up for a elbow jumper, is he a genius for letting them play it out, not calling the timeout? Of course he is. No, he's not. I still think you should have called the timeout. Look, if Tatum goes and pulls up an elbow jumper and drains it, the guy's a genius, they're not calling a timeout. No, no, no.

Because then it's, wow, that risk paid off. That's what it becomes. It's like in the Super Bowl between the Patriots and the Seahawks. You want to talk fandom here? It's Belichick not calling a time out and seeing the Seahawks, you know, we're not going to give them a moment here. They're at two-yard line. We're going to make the clock run.

they can make a decision. Interception of Malcolm Butler. It was a risk that paid off. Maybe it would have turned out better. I don't know, man. I've watched NFL films. He knew the play. That's why he didn't want to call a timeout.

He knew the play. I know that's different, but I'm just saying letting the clock run, not calling a timeout. Sometimes it works out. Sometimes it doesn't. It's a risk as my only point there. And it was a risk for Missoula to do what he did.

I think he should have called the timeout in that situation. Belichick, I think he, it's hard second-guess what the greatest coach of all time ever does. Missoula, he's a rookie head coach who was just an interim. I think it's pretty fair to second-guess his decisions when this follows a trend from his entire season. Regarding what you're saying about what the Celtics do, A, you get Horford on Embed as much as you possibly can. Al Horford held Joel Embed to 31% from the field in game four. And in the fourth quarter and overtime, he held him to 14%. So maximize that

As much as I could get Al Harford as the guy guarding Joe L.N. B., that's what I want. And I don't want to switch out of that as much as I possibly can. The second part, hope that James Hardin isn't trying and hope that Doc Rivers

didn't send him a gospel song before the game. Which I did, did you look that up by any chance I happen to go look that up. The gospel song? Oh, yeah, the gospel song. He sent him a gospel song that James Hardin started laughing about at the podium and said him and his buddies were in the car. And so he said, turn it on. And he said it's a seven-minute gospel song.

It's by Tasha Cobbs Leonard. It's called You Know My Name. It is a gospel song. Yeah. That's seven minutes long. Are you jamming out to it? I was not. Not a big lap dance song, that's for sure.

So I'm not sure it's his speed. You think Hardden listened to it, did he? Did he know that? He said he listened to it, and he said, I want to be in the, I want to be in the frame of buying this guy's in. Because he said it was on his way to the game that he sent him the song. So anyways, maybe he'll send him another song. I mean, M.B.

Low key called him out after that game three. Because he's brought up about coaching and all this other stuff. And M.B's like, look, guys on this team have to show up. And that was, he had just watched. He's probably having flashbacks. He's like, oh, my God, I'm playing with Ben Simmons again. This guy's passing up three-foot shots in the lane. I know.

Like, Harding got weird. It did feel like it. In that game, really weird. He did get weird. I mean, I think in that game, though, in that game, yeah, Harting was weird. But in game four, though, him and PJ Tucker, like, there's moments in that fourth quarter, you feel like the Sixers are just going to blow this. Oh, I know it.

going to blow it entirely. Well, they had a 16-point lead. I know, I know. I think, you know, P.J. Tucker came down with that big offensive rebound. Tucker is great, too. Like, he makes a difference in so many of those situations and those moments. You know, a chance for an offensive board, a hustle play, a smart rotation on defense. Tucker's, he's the difference between some of these new Sixers teams and those old Sixers

teams, too, I feel. Well, Boston cannot dick around in the first three-quarter. I felt like they ticked around a lot in the first three quarters of that game. And like you said, there was that 16 point deficit. Because if you get it into the fourth quarter and it's tight, you've got to love Boston's chances. Because there's a lot on Hardin's plate. Like Hardin has to be awesome for them and make shots in the fourth quarter because that has not been in the cards in the Embed games. MBE's played three games in this series now.

and in fourth quarters, he is five of 19 from the field with two assists, one of which was the hardened corner three where Jalen, for whatever reason, doubles off of that.

What was that? I mean, that's just, even Tatum after the game was like, look, we're no threes and no fouls. Again, though, it's another decision.

And Missoula starts out that possession of having Smart on Embed, thinking they're going to run pick and roll with Hardin. They don't. So then they switch its Tatum on Embed, even though Al Horford's done the best job defending him, he blocked them four times in the fourth quarter in the last five minutes. And you take Horford off of Embed in that situation. And then whether that's Jalen Brown's independent mistake

or something that was suggested by the coaching staff. No, I think it was his mistake. Well, regardless, regardless, it was a critical mistake in play. in that situation need to be better prepared. Oh, yeah. Well, Tatum said, no, Tatum said, we just talked about it in the huddle. If we give up a two, we give up a two.

We are not going to foul. So what's Brown doing there? That puts a three-point play. He's freelancing there, making it such a bonehead mistake in that moment? Yeah, I think, well, I mean, look, Embed has not always been the best out of these double teams,

and I think he thought he was going to sneak up on him. Yeah. And be able to snatch the ball away. It'll work. doing it. It was a great pass by Embed, for sure. Yeah, great pass. It was. It was a great pass. But again, like I said, that's his second assist in fourth quarters so far. I mean, he has not been, and reading the, reading the doc quotes, he's like, look, the guys,

the guys banked up and basically, I don't know why he's struggling in the fourth quarters. Like, he doesn't have the juice to get to the port. Like, he's playing, and he's gutting it out. but, I mean, we see, we know the player that he is. He's MVP of the league, for God's sakes. So what happens? And, I mean, almost to a man, he peters out. He's giving it what he's got.

And so that's why I'm saying, you're really, you know, they need hardened to be awesome in these fourth quarters for them to be able to get home because it's hard to fathom. a huge envied fourth quarter. Now watch him next game, have a huge one. But I just, I don't know. I think Boston's a better team. And honestly, it took monster efforts out of Hardin.

And those were both winnable Celtic games. Even the 42 and the 45 from Hardin, we came on here talking about how, geez, Joe Missoula, what are you doing? You know what I mean? And so that, I don't know, Oh, that's a tough one. And now they're in a game five, which this was shocking to read today.

The last six times that Philly has been in the conference semifinals, so this stage, they have lost game five, including last year. The last six times they've lost game five. And everybody always says, you know, it's a pivotal one. Because, right, obviously it can close you out, but more than likely, the other teams going up three to two in those series. And I believe, what was it? It was Miami, right?

And then they won five and six. I think last year against them. But game fives have been rather cruel to Philly. And even yesterday, I mean, if you were on Twitter during that game, like the number one trending topic for a while was Fire Doc. So you see where I stand on the coaching stuff. It's like, were people talking about how crappy Doc Rivers is today?

I haven't heard anybody talking about that. That's what they were talking about during the game. And I'd be stunned if Boston didn't win game five at home, though. Wouldn't you? Yeah, I'd be surprised if they don't. Another thing I want to mention, the all rookie teams got dropped today. I want to mention this before we get out of here.

Do you have a vote for this? Do you vote for all rookie? I vote for everything. Oh, you vote for it? Oh, Kevin O'voter. We've been doing this part for seven years, Chris. If you vote for one thing, do you vote for everything? Yeah, you vote for all of it, yeah.

Okay, you're just one of the voters. Yeah. All right. Bankero, Jalen Williams, Walker, Kessler, Kegan Murray, Benedict Matherin. The only thing I'm surprised by was Matherin over Ivy. That surprised me. Did you have Ivy? I had Ivy, yeah.

Matherin, man, it felt like we talked about him a lot, the first two and a half months of the season, and then he just went to witness protection. Yeah, then he fell off big time. Yeah. Ivy Duren, Javari Smith, Sohan, and Tari Isson, second team. How did Andrew Nemhardt not make one of these teams?

I feel like he was more significant. I mean, he missed out by a point. I'm not sure Nemhardt wasn't better than Matherin. He started over there. Yeah, yeah. Nemhardt was good. I feel like he was like significant this year as a rookie. Anybody that you voted for that didn't make it?

Yeah, AJ Griffin. I had him from Atlanta. Hmm. And he was, he was behind Nemhard and Sharpe. Yeah. Yep. Okay. All right.

Pretty good rookie class. Yeah, pretty good. You know, a lot of good talent. Bencaro's got a chance to be a monster. Yeah. For sure. I still am a massive Ivy guy and I still believe in Jabari Smith.

I think DiMaudoka is going to change him around. Yeah, I'm not selling stocking any of those rockets guys. I think it's a good time to buy low. Yeah, well, they're low right now. Sounds like they're going to go ahead and fix up a winner. Yeah, we'll see. Pretty quick or try to, try at least. One other thing before we get out of here,

this is a feel good story. I think I've told you about this before. for. But I was having a bad day several months ago, and I got this, I got this message from a guy who's a big listener of ours, Hazlett, and he's a musician from Australia, who is a massive fan of ours. And he's been pursuing a musical career, and he sends me this message, super nice message on a day I just needed it. And I was like, wow, that's really sweet. And so the guys from Australia had moved to Sweden to work on his album and whatever else. I said, you know what, man? I said, I'll check out the music. So I listened to it. I'm like, this guy is absolutely awesome.

I'm like, you got to be kidding. So we start communicating and become friends over Instagram, message each other a lot, right? And I said, you know, and he's had bad days. himself with music and everything where it's like, man, you know, I work so hard at this and you just want to break through and whatever. And so I said to him, I said, look, I listened to your album. The album's unbelievable. And one of these songs is going to get picked up by a movie or a TV show. I promise you that. Like, that's going to happen because it sounds just like that kind of music. And last night, my wife watches Gray's and Adam and the closing song on the most dramatic moment.

I'm getting chills thinking about this. The most dramatic moment of Grey's Anatomy at the very end of the episode, his songs start playing in the background of the show on Grey's Anatomy. And I was like, come on, bro. No way. And I immediately message it this morning and I'm like, you know, congratulations. This is unbelievable. What a break, right?

and he said, I just cannot wait to listen to the mismatch. I got a 27-hour flight back home. And so I wanted to give a special shout out to him, who's one of our loyal listeners who caught an unbelievable break, got one of his songs picked up, got it put in one of the biggest shows on television. He's super talented guy and has been a loyal listener of ours for a long time. And I love seeing good things happen to good people.

Pretty amazing. That's awesome. And if people want to find this stuff, it's H-A-Z, L-E-T-T-T. Yeah, he's great. He's spell it. He's great. He's great. He's great.

He said is the proper pronunciation, right? Yep. Not Hazlet, Hazlet. Yeah, Hazlet. And he's from Australia, no less. You know what I mean? Worldwide mismatch, Kevin. Pretty, pretty amazing.

The international listeners always get me. It's wild. He, well, how about this? an Australian artist who moved to Sweden. And he's like, this is how I keep up with everything going on in the NBA. So cool. Amazing, man. Amazing. Love it. So cool.

Congrats, man. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, the married Jesse Lopez now. Congratulations to Jesse Lopez, the married man. And Kevin, I'll talk to you later this week. Have a good week.