The Mismatch - 'The Mismatch' Christmas List and Wishes for Next Year

Episode Date: December 21, 2021

With Christmas around the corner, Verno and KOC get into their Christmas lists for teams in the NBA (02:19), including getting the Nets healthy, Joel Embiid continuing to play at an MVP level, and ideal playoff scenarios. They next discuss their trade wish list (20:45). Should the Knicks make a move for De'Aaron Fox? Will the Pacers trade Domantas Sabonis AND Myles Turner? KOC has a special Christmas wish for Pistons rookie Cade Cunningham (34:03) while Verno gets giddy about Thunder rookie Josh Giddey (45:56). Last but not least, they go through which NBA records they hope to see broken next (56:08). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringar Wrestling show is getting you closer to all things pro wrestling. The Masked show with David and Kaz drops every Thursday on the feed, along with the new show hosted by pro wrestling superfan Evan Mack called MacMania. Plus, hear instant reactions to all the biggest WWE pay-per-view events with their post-paperview shows. Check out The Ringer Wrestling show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Miss Match. I'm Chris Vernon. Join me as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'O. Bomber, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'K., Kevin O'Kee,

Kevin O. Controversy, Kevin O'Clymer, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O Christmas, Kevin! Burn out! It's Christmas week. It is Christmas week. We are only going to be doing one show this week, and hopefully everybody will be able to enjoy the holidays and hopefully enjoy some basketball for today's show. We are going to be doing our Christmas wish list throughout the NBA. but I think it goes without saying our number one wish is that hopefully we could get back to normal basketball-wise in the second half of the season. We are not going to talk about COVID and the obvious impact it's having on every single game that you watch at this point. Teams and the league are attempting to power through this extremely trying time.

Fans as well not knowing who their team is going to be fielding. on any given night or who they're going to be playing on any given night. But here's hoping that as time goes on, we are able to regain some level of normalcy and that this will be something of the past, especially as we get into the second half of the season, All-Star weekend, trade deadline, stretch run playoffs. You know, it looks grim right now, but hopefully they could come out on the other side, okay. Yeah, absolutely, Chris.

100% true for basketball and all of us. Everybody, right? All right. So we are going to do our Christmas wish list. We are going to do five different wishes, one for the Easter conference, one for the Western Conference, one for a rookie, one for a trade, and one for a record. We would like to see broken. All right, Christmas wish list.

We will start with the Eastern Conference. You take the first one, Chris. You can hand out the first gifts. I feel kind of bad because Christmas time is supposed to be a time of joy. And you're perfect for Christmas, positive thinking and all of this. And I feel like I am wishing on Christmas for ill will. But I cannot help myself. My Christmas wish for the Eastern Conference is that the Brooklyn Nets,

fact, get everybody back. Kyrie Irving, James Hardin, Kevin Durant, and Kevin Durant's healthy, and Kyrie Irving is healthy, and James Hardin is healthy, and we finally get to see it all together. Now that is, because you know, when I think about that, that is positive. And then they lose.

That's my Christmas wish. I hope that we get it all together. There are no excuses. They've thrown it together. They're all able to play together. And then we get them in the playoffs. And whether it's the Bucks or the Heat or the Sixers or whoever else in the Easter conference knocks them out.

Because I do think that that would be, I think it would be good for the long term. of basketball. We were all, it was downright frightening to think about all three of those guys being together. We did not get to see that at all last year in the playoffs because Kyrie was out, Hardin, was a much less a version of himself when he was able to play in their biggest games. And so I want them all healthy. I want them all available. And then I want them to lose. And maybe it would, maybe it would cause some of the young players in the league to think a little more about feeling like they need to latch on with other great players or forcing their way out to go to another place. Janice winning last year was a big step towards that. I think

Dame Lillard coming out saying, I want to be part of the solution here is a big step for that. but in the end, if they're all together and they're all healthy and they do squash everybody like we thought could happen in the first place, I mean, hell, they're in first place without the guys, right? I hope they come back and I hope they lose. You wish for that. You wish for them to lose when they're healthy, which would be an epic thing to happen if that team lost.

Do you feel like they would lose with all three of them? I mean, you wish they would, but do you think they would? I think it is unlikely. Unlikely. So Chicago and Milwaukee, Miami, Philly, those teams would be moves, you think, to be a healthy Brooklyn team. No, no, no. In my opinion, the chances, and again, you're getting,

if everybody's healthy, I'm going to pontificate that everybody's healthy, okay? I think Miami could knock them out, and I think Milwaukee could knock them out. I think those are the two chances. And so, you know, they'll be a favorite, but it's not going to be a super heavy favorite over Milwaukee. They'll be a significant favorite over Miami. But I could see, I could see Miami if they've got Lowry, they got Butler, they got out of bio, they got their guys, they got PJ Tucker, they got their guys all healthy. I think that they could do it, and I do think that Milwaukee could do it. And so while they're probably not the favorites to do it, I do think those are the two teams that could beat a healthy Brooklyn team.

I'll transition here to my wish for the Eastern Conference, because it makes sense to follow up with what you just said. I hope Joel Embede can find the MVP within, which he did on Monday night against the Celtics. He had 41 points. It was an absolutely just dominant performance. I mean, he was hit mid-range jumper, scoring from the post, doing absolutely everything. He looked like the guy who a lot of people had leading the MVP race last season. I want that Joel Lombie, night in, night out. I want that Joe Lombie to stay healthy.

I want that Jewel Lombie because I think that guy, that version of Joelle-Labid, when he's talking trash to people on the court, when he's just playing with that swagger, he makes the NBA even more enjoyable to watch. and for the Philadelphia 76ers with their team they have this year, regardless of what happens with Simmons, getting traded, returning, returning, whatever, it doesn't matter to me.

It's about the rest of that roster because also in that game, like you had Seth Curry having a big night. I mean, the Sixers have a team that I think can optimize, dwell on a beat, but for him, his numbers from mid-range

are back down to career averages last season, right now, after last season's career highs. I just hope we get that version of Embed again. They need another player. They need another player. Like last night was a good night because they had Curry and Curry was really good. He went off, man.

And they also had a good Tobias Harris game on Monday, too. Yeah. And that enables Embed to be at a different level. Also enabling Embed to be at a different level. Yeah. Time lowered out, Horford. Everybody was out for this. You're saying going against.

Enis Canter freedom. freedom. Yeah. And it's in his canter freedom. Yeah. I mean, going against him, I'm sure.

Sure does help too. That's for sure, Chris. So, I mean, it's a lot easier to look like MVP Joel, but that, no matter who's guarding you, that step back or side step or whatever you want to call it, the baseline jumper that he hit at the end of the game.

Oh, my God. I mean, that is just for a guy that size to be making moves and hitting shots, like that. Chris, he had two defenders straped around it.

It's outrageous. coming from the right canter in front of them. I mean, like it was... It's just an outrageous that is something like Curry does.

Yeah. Really? I mean, I mean, even a minute prior, just, just the step back he had on Cantor Freedom,

you know, without the help. And then the next time, like he said, Smart came over. I mean, he's just, he's got a whole bag

on that post. He does. They need, and maybe they will be able to attain said player. You know, just to give him, you got good games out of Curry and you got good games out of Harris last night. But, I mean, if you've got some guys now, if you have to honor those guys in a way that

does not allow you to bring a second guy at Joel Embed, there's nobody he can't demolish in his matchup. I mean, I mean, my favorite bucket Embedd had last night, it wasn't anything like, you know, snazzy like that stepback you're talking about but i think it was mid third quarter he the the sixers cleared out the entire left side of the floor for imbid after inbounding the ball to him inbounded it he did like a fake little move moving to the left with the ball then went right and just plowed right through canter freedom put him underneath the rim created an easy layout for himself and it's just like damn that looks like shack like that that's what like in the moment like that's

what i just said to myself that looks like shack and And I want that version of a beat every single night where teams are sweating worried about hitting that mid-range jumper, hitting the stepback, hitting threes. And then he can still just bulldoze you and get to the basket. I want to see that guy nighting that out because he's a, he's just a, he's a player. Like you said, Eileen positivity, Chris. He's a good player that just makes your nights better when you watch basketball, makes your nights better. All right, the second one, the Western Conference. I am going to, I think I'm going to surprise you with this.

Okay, please. I like surprises Chris. I'm a big surprise guy. You know, I'm a big surprise, including surprise birthday parties, like the one when my friend had, which you didn't want to hear about a couple weeks ago. I love surprises. I want Minnesota in the play in. Ooh, I have a similar one with Sacramento.

I want Sacramento in. Okay. I want Minnesota in. Minnesota entertains me. The Edwards thing is so much. much fun. And again, you're talking about a one-off or maybe even two games that you have to play depending on where you are in the seating. But it's been a long time for those fans. They got, you know, you watch that thing the other night over the weekend where, you know, for it's a

Lakers. And Pat Bev is bodying Rondo and doing the too little thing. He's doing the rockin the baby. He's got towns whiling out. Duncan and like, I'm in here or whatever he's yelling. And they certainly have guys. They've got these like three or four guys that on some given night could possibly go for like 30 points against you. Russell can do it on a given night. Towns can do it on a given night. Obviously Edwards can do it on a given night.

Even Beasley, some nights can catch fire and do it for them. And so they got some fun players. They've got this. The Beverly thing has, you see them rallying behind this character when you watch. And the other thing is obviously Edwards is just a complete force of nature that could, if he played in a playing game and he dropped 40-something against. somebody, it would be unsurprising to everybody. Like, he is a special, special talent.

But it's been so long for them. And I do think they're one of those teams that could elicit in an incredibly fun game to watch if they get there and also be very dangerous. And to me, that's much more entertaining than seeing Sacramento there than seeing San Antonio there like we did last year, like seeing, like I think to me, especially when we're getting into like that playoff scenario, they, number one, I want to see them, but number two, I actually think they're dangerous, you know? Like some of these teams have been rather lame and they're 500 right now.

They very well may end up around 500, but I would just love to see them have the opportunity against one of those other teams. And certainly, as compared to the teams that they're going to have to be battling with, i.e. Sacramento and San Antonio, who are the other ones that are going to be fighting to try to get into that play in, I'd rather see them. And I think they're more dangerous. So I'm hopeful that right now they're eight. I'm hopeful that they're able to hold down the fort. And at worst, just be in that play in some way, somehow, whether that's at nine or 10 or whether that's at seven or eight. My wish is double-sided, Chris.

I said the Kings because the wolves right now are already like in one of a top 10 spot. So I didn't, I didn't wish for that at the moment. I wish for the Kings to bump out the Blazers. Oh. And this is, this is because I think it's for the both.

It's for the best for both franchises. For Sacramento, I mean, maybe not best for the franchise. Maybe having the number one pick would actually be the best for Sacramento. But for those fans, they haven't made the playoff since 06, Chris, since 06. At least at least the Wolf said that one year, they went in 2018 with Tibbs' coach, and they lost in five games to the Rockets in the first round.

At least they had that moment. Kings fans haven't been there since 2006, 2006, Chris. But they ain't winning nothing anyway. I know they're not winning anything. I know they're not. But for Kings fans, it would be nice to break that streak. And also for the Blazers, maybe missing the playoffs is actually for the best tier. I mean, maybe this is a lost season.

Maybe this is a year you're punting. Maybe getting that higher pick for Portland is what ends up saving Mamie and Lillard. And makes the team look appealing. I'd still be scared of Lillard and McCollum if you're having to play them in a play in. I would. I understand. So that to me makes it more entertaining. scared of them in a plan or scared of them in a playoff series.

Oh, not at a playoff series. I'm saying in a play in a situation. That's all I'm talking about. I don't think, you know, look, only two of those teams are going to emerge anyway. So I'm just looking for the most entertaining scenarios. And by the way, Minnesota, they would be very entertaining in that. I'd love to see them in it. I hope they make it.

And dangerous. Okay, well, here, you know what? We're going to pivot to, I guess, I guess it's fair to say your record is not that the King's break Donald Sterling's Clippers record for playoff utility. One more thing on Minnesota though, Chris.

I feel like I pivoted from them too soon. Kat this past month I mean, everything I just said about Embed, I want to see Kat doing more of what he's done

this past month. Did you see the Anthony Edwards quote that he had the other night? Anthony Edwards was like when you hold the ball out and wait for people to come to you and then make your move,

like don't do that anymore. And he said, when you catch and go, boom, they can't guard you. I'd be telling him this every game, every practice, like, nobody can guard you, you can shoot the ball, you're quick, you can handle the ball, you get touch, you get everything, they can't guard you. And the last month, we've seen a lot more of cat not holding the ball. We've seen him catch the ball in the post and make quick, decisive moves. And the numbers are up this past month. He started the year averaging 23 points on 16 shots. He's up the 26 points on

18 shots and seven free throws per game. And the difference is this nerdy, stat from second spectrum. Over the first 16 games curse, he was posting up 5.6 times per game, and he passed half the time. Half the time he passed the ball from the post. He shot only 20% of the time the first half of his season.

Since then, his last 13 games, he's posting up more up to 7.2 times per game, and he's shooting 41% of the time, double what he was doing before, and passing just 38% of the time. time. He's, and just watching the possessions, he's catching and going boom, as Edwards wants. And it's changed everything for him. He started the year as a total turnover, you know, pro-prone player. He was awful watching him on the post. He always passed. He always held the ball. It stagnated

the offense. And lately, especially the game against the Lakers last week, I mean, with Anthony, with Anthony Davis defending him, he was catching, boom, turn him to the left, spinning back right, hitting a right hook shot. Catching the ball. making a move, scoring, hitting a jump shot, hitting a turnaround. Like he was doing all this stuff quick on the post. And that changes who Minnesota could be. If Kat figures it out, Chris, it does. It's interesting because you tell that story,

and it makes me think more about Edwards. Edwards, the leader. And kind of where he is in the pecking order and the fact that he's, what, 20 years old? Oh, yeah. And he's cajoling a 10-year veteran in order what to do. But sometimes it doesn't matter what your age is. That is a demeanor thing. And I saw it years ago where if, and people did not pay attention.

But years ago, people couldn't have been happier when Memphis traded Powell Gasol. And he was that guy, the cat that you were talking about. Holds the ball, stagnates the offense. But Kobe Bryant turned him into a different guy. And I used to tell people like, yo, that palisal was not the one that was here. You know what I mean? Like it took having somebody to drag that out of him. And so to me, when you tell that story, that's what I think of.

Sometimes some of these big guys, right, they're not, they're not wired like killers. But if they've got a killer, they can drag out every single bit of them. And to me, when you're talking about the Edwards thing, I don't know. That's killer stuff, right? That is a guy that has enough confidence to tell towns to cajole him to play differently and be more aggressive. And like it spreads. Like, you know, it's infectious. And like if towns is able to adapt some of that mentality, and by the way, I want to see even more from Kat.

I think he should be averaging 30 points per game. And I know that might sound silly. So if you guys do that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But this is a seven footer who can shoot 40% from three who over the past month and threw other spurts throughout his career has been highly efficient on the post. I mean, he can play pick and roll. He can roll. He can hit simple passes. He should stop doing the Yokic impression, where he does these crazy passes. He can't do that, but he can do it all on offense. And Edwards is 100% right about what Kat can be when he's decisive. That's what he's going to be.

Trade wish. I'm going to move to that one. It was a little bit later in our list, but I'm going to move to it now because you had mentioned the Sacramento Kings. So I think that it has been too long since there has been a star for the Bing Bong Nix, but I do think that the timing is right. They're kind of just keeping their head above water, you know, with this nothing season that they're having right now. but when I read an article like I did last week about the availability of Deerran Fox, I think Fox could be like a king of New York. And I think he gets to learn under Derek Rose. I want the Knicks to make a Fox trade.

Wow. That's the trade I want to see. I think, you know, they got the whole Kentucky crew there already. You know, all these people that he's been familiar. familiar with forever, whether it's Leod or it's World Wide West or it's Kenny Payne. Like all these guys, all the old Kentucky guys are all there. So you've got this comfortability. He moves to media market number one.

I am much higher on Fox than you or many of my peers. I think that his best days are still ahead of him. And I do think that under the bright lights and with the attention that comes in New York that you would get a different guy. I'm sure he's been beaten down by the years in Sacramento so far. And I think you infuse this player that I believe in greatly with this massive shot of adrenaline. I think it would be the best thing for his career to play for Tibbs. I think it would be the best thing for his career to have Rose right there along his side.

Somebody that Rose would absolutely take under his way. wing and he could learn from. And, you know, they've got, they got enough young pieces and they got some trade assets that they could move. But that's my, that's my trade wish. If he is truly available, I think that is the absolute perfect fit. And I think he would have this meteoric rise in New York. I would love to see Fox in a Knicks uniform.

And I think Knicks fans would just absolutely love it. field. So, I mean, you're kind of viewing this through the lens of a Knicks fan. Like Fox could be for New York. I think for Kings fan, the flip side of that to tie this to the team that I made my wish for, you know, Chris,

you said earlier too long, it reminded me of the it just started playing the song Too Long by Deaf Punk in my head. And it's been too long for the Kings to make the playoffs. The feeling's getting strong that they might, Chris. And I

think for them. Tyree's Hallibur in this past week, 24 points per game, 10.7 assists per game, shooting 57% from three unsustainable numbers there. But the 24 and 10 to only four turnovers, last three games, it's just a little splash, a sign of what could be. This is still only year two. And year two, we talked about this a couple weeks ago. It feels like he's the same guy that he was last season as a rookie, which is really good players still. Like no knock against that. But the last week, like I said, 24 points per game, 10.7

assists per game to only 3.7 turnovers. And he just looks like he's just in control on the court. And granted him, I mean, you saw him against Memphis have a really strong game. It was against San Antonio and then against Golden State on Monday night. But I think for Sacramento... But that's against three. I mean,

look, San Antonio... Not bad teams, man. But Memphis have been playing great. Obviously, Golden He's got the best record in the league. And San Antonio, you know, say what you want about them, but they've got, they've got perimeter defenders. Oh, yeah. So it's no picnic.

And he, you know what? This second time I saw him, he looked way different confidence-wise. He just looked really beating down the first time I saw him and just kind of going through the motions. Yeah. I mean, he had the ball in his hands a whole damn game. That's part of it. Right?

I mean, he got the ball in your heads a lot. So he had the ball in his hands a ton. during the game they had very very few players available uh and then they just didn't have enough and it petered out but he looked much better uh in the last game and and i mean playing 39 minutes per game the last week is no joke either and i one of the one of the little things i really like about halibur and is he's kind of got that you know how trey young when he's in the lane chris and he throws up a floater or a lob to john collins or clinkapela and it looks the same like you really don't know when it leaves his hands if he's throwing a lob or a floater.

Halliburns kind of get that same thing because he uses a lot of floaters and his first assists in last night's game. He's driving the lane against Golden State and he throws a lob to our good friend Tristan Thompson for a dunk. I don't know. Like, you know, he hit so many floaters. When the play happened, I was like, is this going to be a floater? Is this going to be a lob? He's got that little disguised action in his game that can make him hold. He's, for defenses to. And he's got a good connection with Holmes, too. Yeah, or Rishon Holmes.

For sure. But they've been without him quite a bit. Yeah, they've got to get him back. You know what? But I mean, so you were talking about the Kings? I mean, if I have to move Barrett, I got to move Opie or some of my young pieces in order to acquire Fox. And I could try to still be able to pair Fox with Randall and make something out of that.

You'd move, you'd move, RJ? Yes. For Fox? Yes. Interesting. Absolutely. I'd be curious what Mix fans say it. In two seconds, I would move him for Fox.

Interesting. Yes. Hmm. I mean, I think Fox is all-star, all-star. I think the jury's still out on RJ. I'm not saying he can't be, but I was saying the jury's still out. But I'm convinced with Fox at his best on a good team with good players around him. Hell, what he averaged?

25 a game last year or something like that. And, I mean, they weren't a horrendous team. I think, yeah, I think he's special. That's my opinion. Anyway, what's your trade that you want to see? I just want to see Sabonis and Turner split up. Kind of basic, but I want to see them split up. I want to see what Sabonis can do.

Yeah, we might. And I'd like to see what Turner can do. I mean, honestly, I know Indiana, it was reported as either or trading one of them. I think they'd be willing to trade both of them. I'd love to see both in new situations personally, Chris. So that's the real wish, is to see both of them on new teams. And to see them like on teams that want to, they desire having them as like a final piece of the puzzle. And I would just love to see Simonus on a team where, you know, Carlisle, no more Carlisle, more like what he had the last two years.

And with Turner, I want to see him in a situation where he's a bunch of versatile, switchable defenders around him and he can just swat shots. How high are you on Sabonis? Because when I heard Bill Simmons even entertain the idea of a Jalen Brown subonis trade, I couldn't believe it. I was just shocked. I mean, obviously he loves subonis. But just the idea that he was even speaking on that, where do you view subonis as an asset within the league,

like in terms of the return that you could get, or rather what, if you're Indiana, and in turn, what you have to give up to get him. Do you have to give up a player of all-star caliber in an opinion to be able to even get in the conversation on attaining him? It depends on how Indiana wants to build,

and that's not totally clear at the moment with Indiana. I mean, if you have to give up an all-star, I mean, that means Indiana wants to continue. continue winning and those deals are really hard to make. And if that were the case, I mean, I've said this on Bill's Pod on Sunday night, I've had a handful of executives around the league tell me when it comes to Subonis deals, they're like, look for some teams that aren't thinking about contending.

Look for some teams that are maybe on the fringes and the playing or teams that are even just in the lottery because they're trying, it's like not, Subonis can have appeal to every team. He's not, he's not 30 years old. He is in the middle of his career, he's 25. years old, he'll turn 26 in May, he's still super young here. So he could appeal to every team. And I think that is something to keep in mind when it comes to what Indiana might desire, because if it's a team like Oklahoma City that would have trade for him, maybe you get more

veteran stuff in return. If it's a team in the playing fringes, maybe it's a player of near equal caliber in return plus picks. So that's something I'm keeping in mind here when it comes to what Indiana gets, but it's unclear. It is unclear right now. Let me tell you something. I like Sabonis a lot. If Boston called me and brought up Jalen Brown's name, that conversation would last one second.

Yeah, you'd be all over it. I don't think Indiana is in a position where they can get a Jalen Brown. I'm just saying, I would pull. I don't think so. To me, that's wild. Yeah, I mean, boss, I'd be surprised if Boston would do that. Sabonis? Brown for Subonis.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, but you are, but look, they're kind of in a weird spot because they don't have anything else to give up. They really don't. They don't have anything else to give up to improve their team. You can talk up Grant Williams or whoever else you all you want, but they don't have anything to give up. If they're going to improve their team, they've got to give up. That's why this has become such a hot topic. It's the only way.

I mean, or you can just do moves around the edges and hope Brown, it's, 25 years old and Tatum at 23 years old continue to get better over the next handful of seasons before their contracts are up and before teams are saying, you know, and media's reporting that they could get split up or get traded. That's already starting to happen, right? Like, we're already seeing that stuff, you know,

whether it's rooted in reality or not, it's starting to happen. That would only increase in the years to come unless Boston's able to fix the roster around both of them or one of them. So for Brad Stevens, like he's, Brad Stevens is entering a six, seven week stretch here up to the trade deadline. This is his first big test. This is his first test. What are the tweaks you can make to this roster or the massive changes that you can make to this roster to fix it?

There's too much talent with Brown and Tatum for it to be a below 500 team. There's too much talent in those two guys. So how do you get it right? Like you said, Chris, you don't really have much trade ammo. Unless it's like flipping guys of near equal value, like turning Marcus Smart into more of a passing-oriented player.

If it's trading Robert Williams or, you know, Grant Williams or Romeo Langford and a near-equal caliber player that might provide better spacing or playmaking, whatever the skill might be. Who is it near caliber player

to Romeo Langford? I'm sorry. No, it's a holiday season. I shouldn't be. I mean, he's only 22. Let's be nice to the young guy. He's only 22. And by the way, I mean, he's not putting up bad numbers and limited chances in his third year, but he's not, you know, he hasn't turned into anything.

Yep. All right. So you say Sabonis and Turner, and I don't think it would be all that surprising of both of them are on different teams. given the reporting that they may just. And they got it like, it's weird because they do have like a bunch of assets. If you wanted to go try to grab a, you know, it sounded like Brogden was there to stay. But whether he. Brogden cannot be traded this year.

Yeah. Right. So, but it's Levert and it's a bonus. And if they got, if T.J. Ward ever gets back healthy, it comes back. Like, it's a weird situation because they're not very good. And yet there are, like, players that individually, I do think, could fit in other places and really move the needle. Like, there's no question Sabonis moves the needle in a great manner. I think Turner could move the needle a lot for somebody.

It's just about fit. And Levert possibly, too. I mean, as a, as a heater, or if you are very delinquent, too, guard. So they're interesting, they're interesting one as we head towards the trade deadline. Let me go with this one, Chris, because this is a wish for the rookie and a wish for me. I wish for Cade Cunningham that Killian Hayes figures out how to score. And I wish that for me. And I wish that for me.

I wish it for me more than I wish it for Cade. I also wish it for Cade very much because he, because Cade himself, Chris, Kate Huntingham has already figured it out, hasn't he? I mean, he's averaging 20 points, six rebounds, five assists ever since his, you know, slowish start to the season. He's scoring with great efficiency.

The three-pointers starting to drop. Last nine games, averaging 25 and 5, a shooting the hell out of the ball, playing good defense, manipulating the defenses with his eyes, with his movements. and Killian Hayes has been a excellent defensive partner for him. Those two guys together, if they're able to build a full roster,

that they could wreak havoc on the defensive end of the floor together. Killingen Hayes has been a good glue guy in terms of moving the ball, running pick and roll, helping balance the offense out with Cade. He's just not scoring. The scoring is just not there right now for kill. It's got to get there. And unless it does, that's going to present some team building challenges and some on-court challenges for Cade and the Pistons. So that's my number one wish here for the number one pick and for me that my former number one player figures out how to put the orange ball through that cylinder.

That's what I want to see. let me say I have no particular rooting interest in Killian Hayes except for the fact that I hate to see you so down

about about what's going on I'm not down. I'm not down. I'm not down. I'm not down Chris. He's 20 years old. He's 20 years old.

I see all the mentions on Twitter. KOC had him ranked this way. KOC had him ranked that way. What happened at Tyrol Terry? It's like everybody gets something wrong.

You know, when I see stuff like that. People have gone to just feel like bad for me. Every time Marvin Bagley scores, people are like, yeah, Bernardo, Marvin Bagley. He's like, hey, you had an open layoff and transition. Yeah, Vernon. I'm like, Bagley Island, let's go. I see stuff like that.

And I assume people haven't seen crappy 20-year-olds turn into really good 25-year-olds. year olds yet. Like, they must be young. That's what I assume when I see stuff like that. Or they're just haters, which is totally fine. I appreciate trash talk and hating. But you got to give these guys time. And sometimes it works out.

Sometimes it doesn't. Like Frank Nilakina, like we went through the same thing with him as another French point guard. Frank Nilakina, year two, I said the same things to you, Chris, right? I said, he can defend, he can pass, he can read the floor. He just can't score. He still can't score. And maybe Killing and Hayes never. will be able to score for whatever reason.

But I still believe, I do. I think he's, I think he has too much natural shooting touch, especially from the free throw line for it not to translate from three point range, for not to translate from floater range. I, like, I still, even as delusional it might sound to say that about a guy who's shooting 34% from the floor, averaging only six point, six points per game is delusional it might sound, I still have some belief there with him. And it's very important for Detroit that they get it because like,

they stink. They stay absolutely stink. They're a bad basketball team, Chris. Cade, Cade's got to get some help around him to make that product on the court look actually worthy of having a guy that's as good as Cade or as great as Cade Cunningham can be. But I'll tell you what,

even if they do continue to stink, Chris, they're going to end up with the top lottery odds. Right. Right? I mean, that could be great for them too in the long run. But yeah, I hope for that for Killian Hayes himself, for Cade, and definitely for me. So that wasn't even for really for a rookie. It's for a second year guys, whatever. But it's really, but it's for Cade though, because stars, I want to see stars supported. Yep. You know what like that, like, that's what I want to see.

I don't want to see Cade Cunningham toil away in Detroit. I want to see Cade Cunningham turn that team into something. I want to hear Detroit basketball and I wanted to mean something. Well, it's been a step back for the, you know, a guy that was outstanding rookie last year in Bay. It has been a step back.

It has been, yes. You know what I mean? So if you're looking for who's flanking this guy, what are you building around going forward? The answer 100% would have included Sadiq Bay a year ago. And now that's maybe a little more murky. I mean, development is just, it's so weird because with Sadiq Bay, like you said, his numbers are way down from what they were last season.

And then the last week, though, he's averaging 26 points per game. I mean, it's just so weird. This season as a whole, though, is been, Sidique Bay has not. And there's, I'm going to do a, I'll look this up a little bit later because we have seen, I have wondered. If maybe somebody a lot smarter than me could steal this idea and that way you could do the work over the holiday break, somebody. For so many years, it became a typical refrain to talk about a second year leap. And I'm wondering now if because of the way the NBA is and because of the fact that you have these astronomical salaries and then you have the lower salaries, and that teams now, years ago, guys didn't really play as rookies.

The ones on the incredibly sorry teams played, but rookies didn't even really play on good teams at all. And now, all manner of good teams have young players playing for them, first or second year players. And there's a lot of guys that get a lot of minutes as rookies now. And so I do wonder if we need to reconsider the second year leap, because the second year leap, in many cases, was about a guy who didn't play all that much, didn't really have a role as much in that first year.

But the second year gets more opportunity and really finds his bearings, and he takes a leap. And now, in many cases, I see second year guys maybe taking a step back and then the third year guys really coming into their own in a way that wasn't the way it was for so many years. And part of that is because in that first year, now you've made a name for yourself. Now you are recognized as someone that is on the scouting report, someone that needs to be guarded, someone that needs to be paid mind. And so now that second year going through it can sometimes be a little more difficult for guys. Now they go through, you know, they trudge their way through and they kind of figure out, okay, if I'm going to become what I want to become, I'm going to have to deal with it when people guard me this way. or when they're just face guarding me at the three point line, I better be able to dribble so that I could do something else.

And then that third year, they end up looking a lot more like they did. And I just say, you've seen it with Halliburton. You saw it last year with Morant. I think you saw it. I mean, I could go through. No lie. I could name me 20 guys that we were more impressed with their rookie year and felt very, very highly.

And then they took a minor step back in the second year only to become what we thought they were their rookie year, the third year. Yeah. I mean, development's never linear in anything in life. Never. Look, Kemp, I know you listened to it also. That Bob Myers' interview on Riscilla was absolutely unbelievable.

Wasn't that a great interview? But how rare is it for an NBA GM to talk so openly on the record? I've pitched stories to certain teams. and they're like, oh, yeah, the GM, the GM will talk to you, but on background. It's like, really? Like, I can't get like a single quote from him for a story. Like, really? But one of the things that stood out for me that I was thinking about was, and Rosillo asked him

a great question. He said, basically take me back in time to the Curry thing and the extension. Now, history forgets this, but it was looked at as a risk to sign him to four years, $44 million. It ended up being the greatest contract, probably in NBA history. Maybe human history. Right. But that is, think about that, that if you're after year four, there was a split in should we dedicate to this guy.

When you say it's linear, not only is it linear, you never know with the injury stuff and what could become. Like, it was, just the idea that resigning Steph Curry to that contract, which ended up looking like the craziest contract ever, wasn't a no-brainer by any means. Like, that to me has stuck with me. It's like, think about that, man. Think about the way we think about guys after four years. And the idea that, and then this is a guy that played a lot more years in college than many of his peers. So he's older at that time. And the idea that that wasn't, you know, a hundred percent no-brainer,

lock him up and that you could get him for the price that they did, it does make you think, man. Like sometimes we certainly decide what the destiny of a guy is going to be within four years. And if we would have done that with Curry, my God, it's a different world for sure. I'm with you, Chris. Bob Myers. Bob Myers is great.

People should go listen to that. Yeah. I mean, Ryan, I mean, Ryan's pod is great, period. I mean, it's a, it's a great pod.

And I mean, in that interview with Bob Myers specifically, I don't know, it was just really cool to hear GM be so open and transparent, like even talking about the decision to draft James Wiseman, even the decision why they took comminga. And Bob Myers went back at Rusila, like,

well, who would you have drafted? That was tough. I mean, it was a great back and forth and like it was honest and and Ryan was like, well, Franz Wagner who like has been fantastic for the magic, he's like he's, he's a guy that I thought about, but I wouldn't have necessarily done it. Yeah, it was just a great back and forth about team decision making and how you build it out and also just about the celebration of Steph and the return of clay coming up. It was, yeah, Ryan killed it with that interview. All right, my rookie, I hope that this, I hope what I witnessed last night continues throughout this season, and we see a progression as this year goes on.

And he is playing in competitive basketball games throughout the second half of this season. And that is Josh Giddy. He's so fun. So fun. Kevin. I mean, look. I was texting you guys, you and Ursillo and the rest last night after I saw him in person. I did not get to see him in person the first time he came to Memphis, and that was the 73-point victory.

So that was useless in terms of evaluation of anybody. This one, there's two things. Their record with Gilders Alexander in the lineup over the last two years is not a ridiculous one by Eddie B. They are competitive, virtually night in night out when they've got him. And especially when they've got him in giddy. There's a couple things. First time ever getting to see that kid in person. I didn't get to see him at Summer League.

Of course, he only played in Summer League, like that one game and then was out for the rest of the time. And so, and I have not, and he wasn't in the first game that I would have been able to see him. And I was really upset, not getting to see him. The first thing he stands out when you see him in person is he is really big. He's tall. And he makes

regular size guards look small. You know? Now the grizzlies do have small-ish guards, whether it's bane, whether it's melting, whether it's jaw, whatever. But I mean,

he towers over those guys. The other thing is, you know I love guys that could dribble pass and shoot. This guy, is a basketball player. Like he, yeah, he'll get targeted on defense. Some, he's not the most fleet of foot.

But good grief is he skilled. The passing is so good. It was one of the most bizarre experiences I've had watching a player like that because he, if you went back and looked and pulled the box score, he had zero in the first quarter and really, just did nothing. And I was like, oh, geez, this isn't what I wanted to see.

This is what I signed up for. The second quarter, he had 14. In the quarter, he had 14. And I'm like, sheesh, what is this guy doing? And I loved him. I did. I got to be honest with you. I thought the kid,

every once in a while, there's nothing more fun than seeing a rookie for the first time and thinking, man, if this guy reaches his ceiling, what is his ceiling? I mean, he kind of showed a preview of what it could be. He's got some special skills. He really does.

Because with him, the scoring is what hasn't been there this season for him. He's, you know, he's doing everything else. He's rebounding the ball. He's passing the ball, but he's shooting only 25% from 3, 40% from the floor, 64% from the free throw line. Like there's legitimate concern about what level can he reach as a score.

But I mean, in last night's game in that second quarter you're talking about, he kind of, I think it was with Desmond Bain defending him, he kind of had a stepback three point jumper. And you think about if he's able to blend, if he's someday able to blend scoring as we saw against Memphis, with the passing,

which we see every single night, I mean, you saw him make some ridiculous pass. last night. Some result in assists. Some don't. In the fourth quarter, he had that frozen rope drive to the basket. I think he'd step from left to right to get towards the paint and then overhead pass to a

corner three-point shooter, Williams. And it's right in the shot pocket. One, he's so big. He's so big. He can make passes over the top of the defense. Yes. Yes. It's such an advantage. They use them as an inbounder. I think first half of the game, he had a pass to

a dort maybe on a cut to the rim. And it's just so easy for him to overhand, pass it over the entire defense, right on target and rhythm like quarterback to wide receiver for a wide open layup opportunity. He creates that with his height and size. And just the vision he has. Chris, we have a lot of great playmaking tall wings

and forwards in the NBA right now, from, you know, from Giddy to Simmons, Lamello. Barnes, Scotty Barnes. Scotty Barnes. Barnes, fantastic. Yeah. I mean, and the other thing was there were two different plays last night, like, just cuts he made to the basket that are just an awareness of the game that you see,

you see basketball a little bit differently than some of your peers, you know, like just real heady stuff. And if you would have watched it and I would not have told you, that that kid was a rookie, you would have never believed it. No, no idea. Never. Never believed it. I mean, he's just,

he's advanced, man. Even the way he, even the way he navigates pick and roll. I mean, there's possessions in which, you know, you know sometimes how a veteran like Chris Paul, they turn the corner on a pick and roll, and then they kind of slow down

and let the defender stay on their back. Some people call it putting the defender in jail. They're behind you and they can't do anything. He did that last night to, Conchar at the free throw line with Stephen Adams protecting the rim. Conchar ended up actually getting back in front of him. And then Gidey had this weird footwork to create space and then went up with a lefty hook shot to score over Adams, Conchar, Jaron Jackson, three guys all draped around him.

And it's like, damn, like this kid's a rookie. That's what I thought. I mean, everything with the feel, the footwork and the offhand finish, he's got something there, man. I know that they're like a team that's going to be lottery team again. I hope they play it out because just getting to see that that backcourt is good and fun to watch and can be competitive. You know, I hope they don't shut it all down and just like, you know, start playing Ty Jerome and Poku and all these other dudes just in trying to lose games on purpose. Because they honestly.

Poku helps them win, Chris. Poku helps them win. Don't you dare. dare slander, Alexa, Ogreshefsky. He helps them win basketball games. My God, I almost went down there and took him a sandwich. I'm like, you look famished. Oh my goodness. Jesus Christ, eat

something. Some of him concessions, a couple hot dogs. Yeah, maybe he's in Memphis to get him some barbecue nachos. I could have brought him down. I could have brought it down there to him. Anyways, this is what I'm going to tell you. They're going to have to sit guys if they want to lose on purpose. That's what I'll tell you. Because when they have out there,

Gil's Alexander could be the best player on a court on any given night, truly. And they just knocked out, you know, they got their heart ripped out in that stupid Pelicans game. And then he hit the game, then he hit the game winner against the Clippers. And then last night came and

beat Memphis, like, when they've got giddy and they've got Dort and they've got Gildes, like when they play their guys, they're competitive. They are. And they play hard, and they play together. Like, you obviously I murdered him for the historic NBA loss that I witnessed earlier this year.

I'll just say for the benefit of giddy and for the benefit of all those guys, you know, the odds are even doubt now. You got Sam Presti, come on, bro, you got every pick the next 15 drafts. Like, let this team go out there and play it out and be competitive and get to feeling good about themselves while you build around them because I do think that there is. I credit them for last night. These OKC fans are like, oh, you better talk about how good.

This is what I want from teams like OKC. This is what I think helps the most in development of somebody like Josh Gideon. That's why my Christmas wish is that they play this thing out, and he's just not playing in 30-point blowout after 30-point blowout, the last 30 games of the season that does nobody or him any good, and it gives a false sense of where you are within the league. because that team can be competitive when they play their guys. Well, so let's reference to this to our earlier conversation.

I mentioned Sabonis on Bill's Pot on Sunday night. I threw out the idea of Oklahoma City consolidating some of their picks to go get Subonis. They're one of those teams that when you're, like I said, they traded him. Well, yeah, they traded for him on draft night. Essentially their pick. They traded him in the Paul George deal. clearly there's interests. We know they like Subonis.

We know they had draft 9 interests. There was an investment made in him. Sabonis makes some sense. That'd be fun. Yeah. And that's an attainable guy that would fit their timeline. Absolutely. 25 years old.

Right? I mean, if you fancy. If you fancy yourself with somebody in three, four years that's going to be able to compete at the highest level, you know. Yeah. He fits right in line with the Gildes-Sahlexander thing for sure. With the inside outside, oh, I like that too. That's actually a good one.

I'm super into it. To me, OKC should be trying to consolidate some picks now. You don't want to wait too long to consolidate. You want to keep your bound of picks that you have. But get rid of a couple of them. Get rid of a handful out there. Last one on our wish list is a record we would like to see broken. You want to go first?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a chance we have the same. one because you've said this before. I want to see the most points in a game record broken. No way. That's not fine. No. And in it, okay, fine. In it, I want to see not only the highest scoring game in NBA history, which right now is 370

points by the pistons, the Pistons and the Nuggets in 1983, a 186-184 thriller in which Kiki Vandeway scored a game high, 51 points. Isaiah Thomas had 47, Alex

English had 47. I mean, what a game. It must have been to watch that live. I want to see 371 plus and I want to see somebody eclipse Kobe's 81 in the game. That's what I want to see. How many overtimes did that go to? Three overtimes. Three overtimes.

The highest scoring regulation game is Warriors Nuggets in 1990, which is 162, 158. Chris Mullen had 38 points. Tim Hardaway at 32. So if you can't pull up that Because I haven't looked at this in forever Pull up that triple overtime game, can you? I just want to know what the highest scoring overtime was What is the most points they scored in five minutes

Because they obviously were piling up points in the overtimes Some of these overtimes you see and it's like, you know, eight to six You know, whatever, were they scoring? Somebody scored 20 in an overtime? So in overtime, first overtime was 14-14. second overtime was 1212 third overtime was 1513 so they were double digits

in every single one of them they piled up almost 50 points in overtime each that's what you got to pull off all right Kevin the record I want to see broken and this one is not stood for a long time but I don't think many people know this so the record

and this was part of the game being more physical and the game you know what just go into games all the time I will tell you started off not a lot of whistles most of these games were two hours i loved it more physical a lot more flow to the game lot less whistles it's gotten way worse the last three weeks yeah more it really has i haven't thought i haven't thought about that like for like in terms of the numbers but i wonder what the numbers are and uh i'll just tell you but now this is anecdotal

but these games are longer and there's been a lot more free throws than there was early in the season. And I was worried about this. And I know they've said that Trey and Hardin and some of these other guys, some of their free throw numbers were ticking up. Some of the other guys around the league, the free throw numbers were ticking up. But it felt like they were making a point early in the season. And I was concerned that it was like, okay, they're just being extreme right now, but it's going to get back to the way it kind of was. And recently, I just feel like there's been a lot less flow to the games than there was early in the season. I loved getting to watch eight to 15, you know, consecutive possessions without a whistle.

It just flows. It's such a rhythm to the game. Yeah, and there just hasn't been that recently. So anyways, mine is in tune with what I loved, which was the flow to the game. So the record for the least amount of free throws taken in a basketball game is, duly held by the Atlanta Hawks and the Memphis Grizzlies. And the record is one. Wow.

I want to see zero free throws. I want to see that record broken. A team, I mean, one is outrageous, but zero. And with the way the game is played now, and so many teams taking so many perimeter shots and sometimes you can watch these games and the team is taking two-thirds of their shot from three-point land. Like, it's not completely out of the question. If the whistle is a little less likely that it has been in the past, and you have teams

that shoot threes at a crazy rate, that on a given night, you could end up with somebody actually shooting zero free throws. in a game. It would have to break the record, which is duly held, as I said, but I want to see a zero free throw game for a team. I feel like it could happen. Zero free throw.

Zero. Zero. Never go to the free throw line. I looked that up. That was April 1st, 2018, the Hawks had one free throw, and February 8, 2014, the Grizzlies had one.

and the other teams did have more than the one free throw. So you're talking zero total from both teams. No, no, no. I'm just saying one team. One team. You get zero. In that game, for what it's worth, the Orlando Magic against the Hawks only had 13.

The Hawks only had 15 against the Grizzlies. Hey, you want to know the craziest one on that if you ever look at that list? This is crazy. The 16 warriors are on that list. How in the hell did that happen? How did that happen? Yeah, the 15-16 Warriors against Philadelphia, January 30th, 2016, the Warriors had two free throws, the Sixers had 21, made only 11.

How? That is incomprehensible. The 15-16 Warriors? I mean, I'm sure they took a million threes in the game. Yeah, that night's Clay Thompson was 14 of 26, 32 points. Steph Curry had 23. Who took the two free throws? Draymond Green and take a guess at the other one.

This is also a pop quiz for the listeners. Drayvon Green took one free throw. Andrew Bogin. No. Sean Livingston. No. Andre Aguinala. You'll never guess it.

You'll never guess it. Oh, I won't? You'll never guess. We could be here all day long. You'll not guess it. Is it a 10 day? Is it a 10-day guy? No.

Oh. David Lee. you'll never you'll never guess it never want me just to tell you Chris give me the initials I see I say Isaiah canon no I see no that's pretty good though your brain makes so your neurons are firing Isaiah Canon that's pretty good

that's that's that your brain's working Chris I couldn't have come up with that really yeah I couldn't have well I mean you'll give your names I you're either Emmanuel Ike Isaiah going you're getting closer, Chris. Isaac. Isaac Lee. Shout out of Isaac. Another name that starts with I?

I wonder how many listeners. E-M-M-A? No? No. Jeopardy music is playing. Wow, that's tough. I really. What if I give you a first name? Or a last name.

Do you want one of those two? Yeah, I want the first name. Ian. Oh, Ian Clark. Yeah, Ian Clark. Ian Clark had it. He came off the bench, 15 minutes, two or five from the field, and he hit one free throw.

Ian Clark played at Belmont. This is the most pointless pop quiz of all time, but I absolutely loved it, Chris. Well, look, that's it. I actually know Ian Clark just because he plays. at Belmont, the Nashville School. He was like Belmont's finest, right? I'm pretty sure I'm right about that.

Yeah, he's from Memphis, Tennessee, too, actually. He's from Memphis. Yeah, isn't that funny? You ready for this? He was the OBC co-player of the year with Murray State's Isaiah Cannon. Wow. How about that? Unbelievable.

Two ICs. But yeah, Ian Clark Ian Clark, not only a Memphis kid, went on and played at Belbud. So I actually, you know, he would keep up with kids like that and what would become of them. He played it in Germantown High School, which is not too far from where I live. Isn't it pretty cool? So Ian Clark, he plays seven seasons in the NBA, and he makes $6 million. I mean, if you're smart with your money and a short amount of time,

time in the NBA. You could really, you know, set yourself up for a long time, even with a short NBA career. What is on in sports. He's also on the, uh, the Xinjiang flying tigers. Oh, so he's playing overseas right now. He's still playing. Yeah. He's still playing in China.

So he still make a money. I'm looking at help his stats right now. Make it happen. I didn't realize he was still playing. Obviously out of the NBA right now. Yeah. All right, Kevin, I hope you have an unbelievable Christmas holiday. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always.

Have a good Christmas, man. I'm looking forward to it. Does you have any Christmas plans? You do anything special with the family? No, I mean, I got two little kids. So Christmas is, this is wheelhouse stuff. This is great. You know, they're all excited.

They've got their lists. Santa Claus coming. You're going to dress up as Santa? Yeah, that's what I care about, right? I hope they have a great Christmas and certainly that they get what they wanted, you know. Yeah, I mean, it's a. It's always fun. It's fun to see them.

And it's fun to, you know, play with their toys and see the stuff they get and how excited they get about everything. There must be nothing more fulfilling than seeing the big smile on their face as they unwrap the presents. And they want to wake you up in the morning and go see what's up. So, yeah, that's, it's fun. Christmas is a kid. That's the one morning they get it before you. You don't have to get them up. They get you up.

Christmas is a kid. Great, great. You have any tradition? Like any food you eat on Christmas or anything like that? No. No. No, I mean, like, well, I've got a breakfast stuff. I'll drink 700 cups of coffee because I'll be up so early.

Yeah, I'm flying home to Massachusetts on Wednesday to see my mom. And I'm not sure what we're going to do on Christmas, though. Like, my aunt's got something going on. But with all the COVID stuff and all that, we might just, we might just lay low. Just me and my mom. Yeah, well, and you can... Which is all I need, really.

Maybe you can watch Bruce Brown go off for the Brooklyn Nets or whoever's available. Those Christmas games got. What is the number one Christmas game we're looking forward to? Yonis. He's the only one healthy, right? He's the only one left. He's the last man standing on this thing.

Hawksnicks, Celtics, Celtics, Warriors' sons, Nets Lakers, Mavs Jazz, I mean, like... It was going to be, it was going to be Trey getting, you know, that was going to be Trey getting flipped off and him probably grabbing his crotch and get the New York fans. And I was, that was going to be perfect for Christmas. Trey Young getting booed and getting flipped off in his face on Christmas. I was really looking forward to that. I hope we're able to get, you know, all of them or some of them back in time for those games.

because even just reading out the matchups, man, like, that's a loaded slate. Scheduling did a great job with that. Like, those are some great games

on paper, Chris, if we're able to get people healthy. Imagine, imagine if Kyrie comes back for the Lakers game. Oh, my God.

There's a chance. He could get too negative tests before them. Possible. I'm not sure. Maybe, whatever. We'll see what happens.

Now, these protocols are very confusing. Hope everybody has an unbelievable holiday. There's not going to be a show on Friday. Enjoy your Christmas. as we will too. And Kevin, I'll talk to you next Tuesday. I'm looking forward to it.

Have a good Christmas to everybody. And happy holidays.