The Mismatch - The Pelicans Upset, the Grizzlies Bounce Back, and Butler Dominates With Rohan Nadkarni | The Void

Episode Date: April 20, 2022

Hey, it’s Kevin, thanks for listening to 'The Void.' Today’s guest is Rohan Nadkarni, an NBA writer for Sports Illustrated. He joins the show to recap Tuesday’s slate of playoff games and discuss his latest article, which details Deandre Ayton’s growth since last season’s Finals loss. Here are today’s time stamps: (02:03) - The Pelicans' chances vs. the Suns without Devin Booker (09:31) - Deandre Ayton’s role if Booker is out (17:39) - On Grizzlies-Timberwolves (24:20) - Do the Mavs have enough to keep up with the Warriors' three-guard lineup? (29:43) - On Heat-Hawks (34:29) - Any concerns with the Heat’s offense? (42:51) - What do the Hawks need moving forward? Host: Kevin O'Connor Guest: Rohan Nadkarni Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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catchphrases into history. Listen now. Hey, thank you for listening to The Boy. My name is Kevin O'Connor. And joining me today after a fun night of NBA playoffs games is Rohan, Narcani and NBA writer at Sports Illustrated. Rohan, what's going on, man? How are you doing today? I feel great. I mean, an exciting night of hoops, a late twist also. So I'm just loving these playoffs so far and really excited to talk about it. Yeah, it's been a really good playoff so far and you're right we got a twist tonight i damed you on twitter earlier today because you wrote a great story about d'andre ait and then i'm thinking okay we'll get rohan on for the first time we've never i don't think we've ever actually spoken no no ever so but like i'm like let's do a pod together i love

your stuff and then the pelicans they come out and win a huge game too over the sun's 125 to one 14 devon booker heard his right hamstring in the game missed all of the fourth quarter of the fourth quarter, a lot of the third quarter, that is going to be a storyline that we'll talk about that could have big implications moving forward in the series for the Sons, but ultimately right now, 1-1, Brandon Ingram coming out with 37 points on 21 shots, 9 assists, the four turnovers. He was a dominant force tonight for the New Orleans Pelicans. Ron, without Booker, did the Pelicans have a shot to actually win this series here? I mean, the Pelicans, I think post-all-star break, top 10 net rating in the NBA, I mean, they

were really good after the CJ trade. They've been really good. I mean, you were tweeting about this. I think they've also found something with the way they're using Larry Nance at the 5. I think that's been really good. I mean, tonight, listen, as good as the sons are, no team is winning a playoff game if your opponent shoots 57% from 3.

I think part of that it was, I think Phoenix just was waiting for them to blink. I don't think their defensive disposition was there all the way. They had like a shocking blown coverage there late in the game where it looked like Chris Ball was going to pick up a different person.

New Orleans gets a layup completely wide open. This is a different Pelicans team. Obviously, the one that started this season, that one that we saw even in February. I don't know that they'll win, but I think they could win another game, certainly, another game or two even. Yeah, at least could push them to six. And that has great implications for Phoenix in terms of rest time for potential second round series against, you know, Dallas or Utah could go deep as well.

You know, Luca maybe comes back game three. We got news about that earlier today. We'll see if that actually happens. But that series could go deep. It would have been nice for Phoenix to get a little bit of extra rest. And like you said, at least one more for New Orleans. Maybe this even ends up going to a game seven, which is unfathomable, considering the expectations heading into the series.

But look, down the stretch of this game, we saw why New Orleans is a threat because Ingram is a bucket that pull up three he had with Jay Crowder's arm, like literally in his face. But you couldn't not defend that. better. No. They were hitting some crazy shots on the starts. There was one three. I think it was McCallum's last three.

McAeough-Bridge's, you know, I think it was a handoff flay. McHale Bridges sticks his hand out for like a half second. It's probably just a reflex. Just gives McCollum the space he needs, gets the ball, launches, trains it. Between McCollum and Ingram, I think they have two scores that are built perfectly for the playoffs. I mean, they can score from anywhere on the court. And their shot making, they just, they didn't get tight at all.

There was no fear. And it sounds cliche, but normally teams, especially a group that hasn't played together, to put together a performance that mature was genuinely really impressive. That's a great point. That's a great point. The fact that we've only seen this whole collection of players, McCollum, Nance, and all these guys together since February. Even a guy like Trey Murphy, he had a couple of blown assignments against Bridges off ball. But as a rookie, he didn't play a lot early in the year, got more consistent run.

All of these guys coming together has happened late. and yet the chemistry with this Pelicans team is really good. I mean, I think they play well together. McCollum being a big part of that. Nine assists tonight's only three turnovers. He had big buckets down the stretch. Great pick and roll play, snaking his way through the defense to get to the basket.

McCollum, the knock on him in Portland for years is playmaking. Oh, he's a bucket, but he's not a passer. He has shown more of the passing ability in New Orleans that he never was really able to show for years in Portland. I thought tonight was indicative of that with his ability to playmake. Yeah, and I think that he, I think he's responding better

the more responsibility they're giving him. You can say this about both teams, but you mentioned that playmaking thing that's interesting because that was also not his role in Portland, right? I mean, he's not running the same number of high picking roles as Damien Lillard is. It's obvious kind of where he was

in the hierarchy of that team. And I think him being kind of the leader, the veteran on this team, I think that he's had to take on that playmaking responsibility. And he's responded well to it. And it's cool to see him thrive in a different situation.

As weird as it was to see him those first few weeks in a Pelicans uniform, it just, it didn't feel right. I don't think Portland was holding him back, but the fact that this team's asking him to do more and he's delivering, it's been really fun to watch. It seems like everybody on this Pelicans roster has managed to fulfill who they all are in the roles that they're given. Like even somebody like Jackson Hayes after a shaky game one, there's calls, well, maybe they should change the starting five.

Even tonight, there is some conversation about that. And then he comes out in the third quarter. He was nuts. Oh, my God. He had the pass off the short roll to a quarter three. Then this crazy dunk. Then a crazy dunk. The block.

Yes. Then two board dunks in transition, sprinting ahead of the whole defense. He was just constantly hustling, showing off the athleticism. It's like, they have so many good players on their roster. They're just, I don't know. The Pelicans really, like, my hot take with them is, with Ingram specifically, is that his improvement from last season to this. season.

Oh, it's even better? It's greater than his improvement in his most improved year. The first year with the Pelicans. And the reason why is because he got worse on defense. That year, he got worse when he went from L.A. to New Orleans. He got better on offense. He got more usage. But this year, there's been defensive progress in terms of intensity, in terms of his

consistency. And then on offense, the playmaking improvement, in addition to the fact he's continuing to shred as a score. I just think this is the best we've ever seen Ingram play. It might be the best we've ever seen McCorm. all in play. They have all these good role players. They're just missing Zion Williamson. I can you imagine if they had Zion out there instead of Jackson Hayes or Jonas Valchunas for a lot of these minutes? My goodness. They dropped the nugget too. At the end of the game, he's been playing

five on five. It hasn't been coming against the team, but he's doing the separate five on five work. Just the, the strangeness of the information and is it the team that doesn't want to play or is it Zion? It's really, really confusing. I just want to add this about the Suns before I forget. I do think they kind of needed not a wake-up call, but like late third quarter, they played an all-bench lineup. And I know Monty Williams has trust in that team and that group has played well during the season, but, and it's going to be difficult without Booker. It's not going to be easy. But I thought that was, it feels like that was a little bit of a game one slow playing easier way into the series move. And I was surprised to see him go with that all-bench lineup, you know,

for the last three and a half minutes, I think of the fourth. And I do think maybe this is kind of the maybe the kick in the pants that they needed, that urgency a little bit. So for them, like, you know, we can assume, we don't know for sure, but we can assume Devin Booker could miss some number of games. I'm thinking they got to hold him out the rest of the series. You don't want a hardened situation. Yes, you would think so. And plus, he missed a couple of weeks the last time that he had a hamstring injury earlier

this year. So realistically, I mean, maybe a couple of games, but even more realistically, probably the rest of the series, however long that ends up lasting. maybe he comes back if it's a desperate game six or seven where you need a win and you never know. Like he's just said, Zion's stuff is this weird storyline where we don't know all the facts yet. Andrew Lopez at ESPN had a report, I believe last week where he said that there is disagreement on when he'll return, what his recovery situation will be.

So we'll see there. If he returns, that's certainly a big X factor with what could happen for Phoenix. But, you know, you mentioned it though. They play that all bench line up without Booker. That really hurts. You're playing a lot more Landry Shamit. You're playing a lot more campaign. What do you think Phoenix should be doing here in terms of distributing those touches that we're going to Booker?

Is this a series where maybe we do see a little bit more Aiton like we did during the stretch Chris Paul was inactive? Or is this a stretch where they, is a series where they're better off running it through their guards more often, whether it's pain, whether it's Chris Paul, rather than Aiton, going against Jonas Valentunus inside? Yeah, that's an, it's an interesting question because, you know, obviously, like I wrote about Ait today and I appreciate having me on because it's interesting. I think as good as Aiton has been, he's still not necessarily, we're going to throw you the ball and get you a bucket guy. And I think that the context of how he succeeds is so important. He's able to put up these numbers because he commits to his role. He's probably like perfect for his role, maybe more so than any other player of the NBA.

And do you risk kind of bringing him out of that? I almost wonder if they lean on Chris and maybe go the other way because do you give someone like Torrey Craigmore minutes and say we're actually going to lean the other way and try to go defense first? Because I think that might be an issue for them. We saw it with a little bit in the sham it minutes. He's going to get called into switches.

Same thing for campaign. He had to go up against Ingram a couple of times. Those guys try, I mean, the size, et cetera. I almost wonder if maybe they lean into defense, but touches wise, like, I think you've got to lean on Chris, not necessarily even to be a score, but continue to leverage the attention he gets to get open looks for everyone else. I'm with you there.

I think matchup-wise, that's likely the move in this series. Though it's also interesting here because with Chris Paul, we've seen a little bit of Herb Jones on him, but we've also seen a lot of CJ McColl, and we've seen a lot of even, like Jackson Hayes or switches for that matter too. I wonder, will there come a moment during the series where we're just seeing Herb Jones stick on Chris Paul?

Yeah. Because he's been the guy on Devin Booker for the most part. And that could change the equation with what Phoenix does too. It's, like, I would not necessarily pick New Orleans to win the series if you, if you tell me Booker's missing the rest of it. I wouldn't go that far. The suns are deep. They've been to the finals. They have other ways to beat you.

They're used to guys being out, too. Exactly. They've done it all year long. So I wouldn't go that far. With that said, though, like there really is that domino effect where now Herb is going to be the guy who's on Chris Ball. And that makes his life even more difficult than it already was, considering the amount of attention that he's being shown. And if he doesn't need as much attention with two guys on the ball, that means the

help defense doesn't need to give as much attention, which means those passes aren't as available. It's a real issue. Yeah. This series also, I think, has a slight element of, like, Willie Gris. knows something. Like, it just feels like

Willie Green knows something. Like Chris Ball was like, oh, I heard them calling out the coverage. I heard Willie said keep going under. It worked tonight. And Christopal said it in the TNT interview after game one.

He said some nights the shots won't go in. That's the bet Willie Green was willing to make. And it just feels like he knows something. He knows how to get under the skin. He knows how to make them work. It's going to be really interesting. But, I mean,

Cam Johnson's going to just step up. I thought he actually had some really good minutes in the second half. He was hitting big shots as well. They're going to need more of that. Yeah, man. Bridges too for that matter. Bridges and Johnson have both stepped up

at different points this year with those guards out. Yeah, it's going to be really, really interesting. It could really turn into a fight here, man. I'm kind of blown away by just the shot making from the Pelicans in the last four or five minutes. You expect it from the Suns who are like this historically great clutch team, but the Pelicans looked unbothered. Yeah, I mean,

the shot ingram hit after the inbound. I think it was his last two-pointer of the night just spins baseline straight in his jumper. It's like, oh, we've seen that thousands of times from Kobe and KD and all these great bucket getters who can just shoot off a spin into their jumper. It was wild what they were able to do. And Booker, of course, can do that too.

For this Phoenix team, though, the one thing that bothered me in tonight's game, like I think you're going to have nights where you don't shoot as well, but I thought the defensive intensity on that end of the floor was not there from Phoenix, particularly from Aiton. And he had this great quote in your story where he said there's a certain vengeance I've been putting into my game. And like he 100% has turned into that guy. He did it last year on their playoff run.

He could do it again this year. I didn't think he did it tonight. I just didn't feel, I didn't feel Aiton's impact on defense as much. I mean, if you compare it to his best last games, like you remember that game one they had against the Lakers? or you're like, Aiton's dominating this game the way he's running rim to rim to rim. You know what it looks like when he's kind of leaving his imprint. And I don't know if it was a game plan thing,

but I was waiting. I was like, okay, when are they putting Aiton up on screens? Like, even if it's just to inject some more energy into this group. And it almost, it just felt like a regular season effort from Phoenix on the defense end of the floor. It was really basic, like, pick and roll, we're going to drop.

You're going to, you're going to cheat from the corner. We're going to kick out, get the open three. like, I'm with you there and it was disappointing. Obviously, I'm a big fan of Aiton. That was why I wanted to write that story. And he said so many interesting things in there. And Mark Bryant, the son's assistant, was telling me, like, DA is talking to me before every game being like,

what are our coverages tonight? What's their best play? Going over tendencies, like, he takes pride on that end of the floor. And it just, I think team-wide, they just didn't have that, that energy tonight, the intensity you need in a playoff game. it can't be argued in a vacuum that Aiton was the right choice over Luca, but like out of the vacuum, considering, you know, the circumstances with Booker's development, injury aside, uh, Paul's acquisition. Could it be argued like when Aiton's at his best that they made the right decision for this roster, considering how they've built it out? Right. That's the thing is you, you, like you said, you can never say Aiton was the better pick, but I think at some point, like this many years,

removed from that draft. You just have to look at it as like, did we make our team better? And even more so importantly than that, did we acquire a guy who can be important to a title team? And that's what you want to do with the number one overall pick

at the end of the day. And I think they did that. And I think that he proved, you know, the genesis for that story, I meant to write it during the regular season. It's just the way it worked out. We ended up doing it for the playoffs. But he was bawling when Chris Paul was off the floor.

And it feels like so much of his success was tied to Chris, right? We've seen what Chris has done with centers throughout the course of his career. Aiton's the kind of player, and I think Bridges is a similar one, and there's guys like this around the league, but you put Aiton on like the pistons, it's whatever, but he's the kind of person that can take a good team and just kind of like elevate them in a way that an average center could not.

And it's, it's kind of hard to describe the calculus there, but he has so much more value to a good team than like a replacement value center because of all the different things he can do that ultimately I think what matters is they they selected a guy who can be an a valuable part of a championship team let's just say david bookers out the rest of the series what's your series prediction i still got to go sons and six i just can't see i don't think Chris paul is going to let them lose in the first round he's he's he's done he's listen he's had some bad playoff losses there's no question but i can't see it happening i i i Maybe that's like wishful thinking, but I just refuse to believe that the sun's juggernaut goes out in the first round.

Yeah, I agree with you there. I would go to seven, though, because I'm a big believer in this Pelican team, a big believer. And not that we've heard anything to suggest Zion could come back. That is still an X-ractor. That would be nuts, man. Yeah, I, like. Can you imagine that? That would be terrible.

Like, what do you even do if you're, could you imagine if you're Phoenix and it's like, wait, what do we do? Are we putting crowd around? Like, what, like, that's a, that's an all hands on deck. Like, yeah. Oh, man. Man, that'd be, that'd be so crappy for Phoenix if that happened. Let's move on to that other Western Conference game now with Memphis and Minnesota. It's a big game.

This is an important game for Memphis. They won 124 to 96. They were down 1.0. Three minutes into the game, Stephen Adams gets called for a flagrant and Taylor Jenkins at that point in the game says, you know what? This isn't working the way I hoped. It's time to put Stephen Adams on the bench. You're going to be a cheerleader.

You're going to be an assistant coach for us the rest of the night. And he fully embraced it while Xavier Tillman, Brandon Clark, Jaron Jackson, Jr., even Kyle Anderson, getting so many front court minutes for that team and playing at a high level. What changed for the Grizzlies tonight, not having Stephen Adams out there defending Carl Anthony Towns like they did in game one? I thought it was the classic playoff adjustment. Let's play our best players more minutes together.

Usually you don't see this until the conference finals. It's like when the worries used to not start the death lineup. And then they're like, all right. Like, okay, let's do it. Not quite that the Grizzlies went to a version of the death lineup. But I was, you know, I was talking with this with a colleague of mine, Michael Pina. Shout out to the pod. You know, I thought Clark gave them really good minutes in that first game.

And I thought that they looked better when they kind of shifted, quote unquote, small. I just think it, like Memphis wants to play fast. And I think that doing, like playing those lineups helps them speed up a little bit. and I mean, I know Jerry and Jackson Jr. His minutes were low tonight because it was a blowout. Like just him being on the floor more often, not getting into a ton of early foul trouble. Like, that is going to make a massive difference for Memphis in this series.

Like, he has to play. He has to find a way to stay on the court. And I just think it allows them to play their style of basketball, which is kind of quick and hectic. And like, I don't think Anthony Edwards is like a slow player or anything like that. But when you have that kind of score, like you want the game to slow. down, right? Because you can, you can just kind of let him cook in the half court, so to speak. But I just thought that they, they sped Minnesota up and the wolves weren't quite ready to keep up.

No, it's impressive to watch. And I think this bodes well for them moving forward in the series. And also just straight up bodes well for Taylor Jenkins as an NBA head coach. I mean, he learned under Mike Budenholzer, who is a very good coach, to be fair, but he also was very slow to make adjustments. He also played Janus offense defense. Oh, God. Yeah. playoff game. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, never mind.

Like, it was so annoying sometimes watching Janus get like 33 minutes. Yeah. While the opposing starters get 42. It's like, just play your best players more. Yeah. Grant that Jenkins hasn't had to do that. He didn't have to do that tonight.

It does bode well with his ability, in my opinion. They quickly pull the plug on what worked all season long because Adams had a great year for the Grizzlies. Them playing that two big lineup with Adams and Jaron Jackson, Jr. was highly effective. And yet three minutes into game, too, they say enough. We're going to play faster, as you said. We're going to go with our more skilled and more versatile lineups, our better spacing lineups. It just, it just all clicked into place for the team. It helped John Morant getting to the basket, downhill attacks. It helped their defensive versatility,

as you said, on the perimeter. Carl Anthony Towns, did he, what did he do tonight? Was there anything notable to Katten tonight? I thought that they it's just the clubbers kind of I think started forming a blueprint there right?

Like there's certain guys and I think this is like with Yokic too where it's like they're so, they're not used to going up against like smaller quicker players

who are kind of like it's kind of just like nipping at their ankle as a shack would say it's like the earthlings getting physical with the aliens like and I think like

like you say like it just speeds up town in a way that I think he's not accustomed to playing. Like, I don't want bulk on him. Like, he's going to dominate in some one-on-one post-matchups, and you're going to have to live with that. But, yeah, I mean, early in the game, I thought Jaws, like, was doing such a great job.

Once Towns, I think picked up his second foul early in the first quarter, Jod, like, had a dunk at the rim or, like, a lay-in. Like, they also, I think just, they clearly made him uncomfortable to him. Yeah, they did a good job against them. I mean, they were showing occasional help sometimes. Like, I believe there was this one play in the third, quarter where I think Townshead Clark or no, maybe is Dylan Brooks on the perimeter against him. And Jaron Jackson flies out of nowhere with help defense, two arms up in the air and forces

towns to miss the layup. And little, little things like that where they're showing more help to give him different looks rather than maybe single coverage, Stephen Adams, just getting smoked in the perimeter. It just became tougher on him to create that space. And they have the speed to recover with those smaller lines if you send help, right? So it just is it's a domino. effect and that was the kind of energy I expected Memphis to have in game one. Like, talk about mature performances. That was incredibly composed by Minnesota in game one.

And I think Memphis, I don't think they match the level of intensity. Obviously, like the sense of urgency, you know it's always going to be dialed up after you lose a playoff game. But that's the kind of effort I expected them to have in game one. I just, I love how this Memphis team, because like with depth, with Taylor Jenkins, there may come a moment where he needs to trim the rotation to eight. There might come of time he has to, but like game one, Stephen Adams plays heavy minutes and then this game,

he's playing only three minutes. Game one, like you don't have Xavier Tillen playing at all. Tonight he's 21 minutes, 6.7 from the field. Oh, it was terrific on both ends of the court. And I think with this team, we haven't even seen John Conchard get his moment yet. Yeah. And like they just have so many different guys on their roster

who at some point, if they make a long run, are inevitably going to get an opportunity to have a moment in a series where it makes sense. And for Memphis, assuming they advance, which is no guarantee here with Minnesota, but if they advance and then they get a round two series against the Golden State Warriors, that may also not be a series for Stephen Adams. That's different types of styles there in terms of the size and bulk of Adams against Golden State. On the flip side, maybe it is a series for Stephen Adams for that exact reason, because we're seeing Golden State play smaller this first round against.

Denver. It's going to be a very interesting thing for Taylor Jenkins to have to deal with moving forward because of the success all year, but it shows how much things just changed dramatically in the postseason. It's so true. It's funny. You mentioned contard. There was like a real conchart phase during this regular season.

The record with him was crazy. It was like, what's going on here? It's just funny to think about like he's not even in the rotation right now. It was like if I'm, by the way, if I'm a team that's expecting you want title this year. I already have an assistant coach just only studying the Warriors three guard lineup and thinking what do we what can our team do to slow that down because I think Denver is like

the worst possible matchup for that specific lineup. And it's it's already I'm all my wheels are already just spinning like what are teams going to do who can defend it. How are they going to defend it? I think I lean with your first instinct there. I don't think that's going to be a matchup for Adams if the Grizzlies do advance, it would be fascinating if the wolves advanced because they're not taking towns off the floor. Yeah, that Warriors lineup,

Amaldry, it just reminds me that one year, you know, the Rockets were very upfront about, we've spent the entire year preparing to defend the Warriors in the Western Conference finals, and you could tell, they did a hell of a job, the best job any team did against the Durant Warriors, like, that's the

level of focus teams are going to need to have against sang route. I think you're 100% right. I mean, like, you watch that lineup and it's like, okay, they're back. I talked about this with Verno on Tuesday's mismatch, but it's like, they're back because Jordan Poole has become a star. And granted it's a small sample size. It's been trending up for like three years now. Like this goes back to his rookie year with a steady ascension and it started happening late last season, carried it over. He's gotten better. The last 20 games of the regular season, this is for real with Poole. Dremond is looking like the Raymond of his prime.

Just absolutely outstanding. And when you have those two things in addition to Steph and Clay, Wiggins playing his role, 3-and-D style guy, plug-in auto porter if you want to instead of Wiggins in those lineups. They have so many different combos they can play. They are for real. And I think, is it just Phoenix in the West that's equipped to defend them? Is it just Phoenix?

Or do you think Dallas has enough wings with Finney Smith and some of the stuff they can do there. I do like Dallas's, it will be interesting because Dallas has done a great job defensively mucking things up for teams in the half court. Like when they play Finney Smith, like Cleber, I know had a rough start

to that series in an out of body experience in game two. Yeah, he is. That would be an interesting, like the quote unquote Dallas small lineup because their small lineup still have a lot of length. I think Dallas would be interesting just because what do you

do with Luca? Are you putting Draymond on him? The thing with the Nuggets is they don't have a perimeter guy that the Warriors have to worry about. So you can play three guards together. But you think of, you know, the Sons with Booker, Bridges and Paul obviously as well, the Mabs with Luca, the Warriors have to worry about a perimeter guy in that situation. And now you're getting into awkward mismatches because if you put Draymond on Luca, who's guarding Dinwiddie, who's guarding Jalen Brunson, and then what are you doing about kind of their Bigs, it gets more interesting. The Sun's, it's going to be fascinating.

That's one where I'm like, oh, God, I'm the guy who wrote the DeAndre Aiton's story, because Aiton in that matchup is, I think, is the swing piece, and it's going to be fascinating. Yeah, that'll be fascinating if we get it. I hope, I shouldn't say that I hope we get it, because I think any combination of potential series in the West could be awesome. But if we do get Suns, Warriors, full strength, full health, like, that could be a We need it. We need it just for the Paul versus Currie.

I said this earlier night, like, if there's a Scott Foster Reft game in that series, there might be an actual murder. Like, they're going to need extra security at the game. Like, Adam Silver's going to have to run on the court and break up, like, prevent it, but we need it, man. Speaking of our refs, what was with the first couple minutes of that Grizzlies Wolf's game, since X-Arbor was getting way more TV time than job. That was insane.

The number of fouls in the first couple. I was like half time of the Heat game. remember I was watching it and I was like, it was just like on 11 minutes for like six minutes. Like they're just like, it took forever to get that game going. And it was already such a bummer that they put in NBA TV. And it's like, I've been like, you know,

I'm like trying to get my dad like, hey, we should really, you know, get into this Wolf's Grizzly series. Um, and then it's like, this happens. And it's like, oh God. Like, what have I done? What have I done? What am I telling people? But that was ridiculous.

That was ridiculous. Yeah, it was unfortunate. And in that game, you know, ultimately, though, for for Minnesota a disappointing night we'll see how they respond in game three at home that crowd's gonna be oh my that's gonna be a fun game i'm very i'm very excited for that both of those home crowds memphis and minnesota are kicking ass like i i love a good home crowd i respect it more than anything because i've been i've been in arenas for great games and it's been for sure man and like nothing better i i don't want to like generalize but i i just love seeing

I love when Memphis is in the playoffs, man. Their fans get into it. I just love seeing cities like that. You can tell they really rally around their teams, and it's like really cool to watch, really cool to watch. It really is. It's amazing to watch.

Last game from Tuesday night's game, The Miami Heat, beat the Hawks, 115 to 105. They're up 2 O in the series. Performance of the night goes to Carl Anthony Towns's best friend of all time, Jimmy Butler, who has 45 points on 2. 24, 25 shots. He was four of seven from three. Butler, uh, he has made 46% of his last 33, three-point attempts going back to the regular season. Before then, he was at 18.5%.

What the hell happened to Jimmy Butler? Jimmy was just on one. It's funny, we did like a roundtable for SI and they asked all the writers for a bold prediction. And I was like, I don't know what, because I was like, I think Jimmy's going to shoot above 33% from three. Like he's going to be above average from three. I did not expect that. That was an explosion. It just felt like tonight he realized, like,

I have an advantage on every single one of these guys on the perimeter, even as good of a defender as D'Andre Hunter is. They don't have rim protection with Clint Capella out. Like, he can get to the rim whenever he wants. I thought the most interesting thing from that Miami game to me, first of all, I mean, credit to the Hawks defense, who I think did a good job on everyone not named Jimmy Butler. like BAM and Hero have not got it going at all in this series.

And the Heat's offense did lag. Atlanta was able to get back into that game. I've been waiting to see if and when Spoe would play P.J. Tucker at center. And we sought for a few minutes in this game with BAM and Fowl Trouble. And that lineup with Jimmy and four guys was P.J., Caleb, Lowry, and either Struce or Hero. Like, that's an interesting look for Miami. And I almost thought that they should have taken BAM out at the end of the game.

Do you think that that could be a look for them more? moving forward despite the fact that Bam Anabio is as unbelievable as he is. Like, Bam brings, you know, maybe the second best defense in the NBA behind Draymond Green. And offensively, he can bring it in a number of different ways. Like you said, he's not necessarily a shot creator for you, but he's a very good finisher who can create here and there. Despite that, you know, you got their backups.

You have the ability to play with PJ Tucker at the five. You can also bring Dwayne Dedman in to bring size and three-point shooting. at the least they showed the value in playing without BAM and the potential of playing without BAM without losing a lot. Well, I would just say that to me the tension for the heat all season has been do their best players play their best when they're playing together. And I think that there will always be concerns about Jimmy and BAM's lack of shooting and what that does to their offense when they share the floor.

I mean, obviously, Jimmy had the crazy shooting night tonight. I don't think anyone expects that every night moving forward. Only Jimmy Boller expects. Yeah, Jimmy Valman is expected. I do think it's something, you know, Spow overall that rotation late in the season after the infamous fight, they had the four-game losing streak. I said my concern was at 10 out of 10, like they need to figure something out. They put streaks in the rotation. They're bringing in Jimmy in with the backups to play with Hero and Robinson to give him some more shooting.

If that's the plan, then I do think you could see it, you know, when they play those minutes, kind of the first quarter going into the second quarter, that bridge. when Jimmy's out there with bench units, yeah, put PJ at the 5 because if you give Jimmy Butler four spacers, I mean, that makes him much more lethal than when the floor's crowded. How much does this what we're talking about here with Miami?

We're talking about this on a night that they won. They're up to O on Atlanta, and if you're a heat fan, you have to be feeling good. And yet, game one, they shoot nearly 50% from 3. You know, tonight, they beat Atlanta. They have different guys playing that center

spot like you said with Bam with PJ Tucker. Jimmy Butler goes off for 45, which you can't expect every night, as you said. On one hand, Miami plays a way where they can beat you a different style each night. Sometimes Duncan Robinson hits everything. Sometimes Jimmy Butler goes off. Sometimes Bam at a bio has an advantageous matchup and he goes off. Sometimes it's Kyle Laurie. Sometimes it's Tyler Hero. They have different guys who can be a source of offense for you in different ways to score. With that said, though, they do have some stagnant stretch. where it feels like it's only Jimmy Butler or Tyler Hero who can generate any consistent offense. Do you have a level of concern about their ability to compete offensively as they advance in the postseason?

Because their second round series could potentially be against Philadelphia with Joel Embed. And that roster is playing at a really high level right now in their first round series against Toronto. In the third round, it could be Milwaukee. It could be Boston. It could be Brooklyn. How do you feel about how Miami's offense looks now and what it means for them moving forward in the postseason? So that is the question. I grew up in South Florida.

I mean, I follow the heat pretty closely. It's like it's no secret to anyone who follows me on Twitter. But, and my concern is honestly, frankly, always been high with their half-court offense. You look at a game like Brooklyn, Boston, for example, at the end of the day, with the late game struggles Boston has had, et cetera, they still have someone adjacent Tateham who you feel confident whether he gets a switch or even when he's playing against, you know, one of the best defenders in the world. We can get something resembling a good shot, something we're comfortable with, something we can live with because he can get a bucket. He's a three-level score. With the heat, I still don't know.

I mentioned they overhauled their rotation, like with, you know, 10 games to go in the regular season. How many contenders are doing that? And I know, and I know things change in the postseason. We just talked about Stephen Adams getting excised in Memphis, so things change. But I'm still not confident in who they're closing five is because they haven't, like, played one consistently all year. And beyond that, just think of the teams you mentioned. Philly, it's going to be Harden and beat pick and roll.

Boston, we can get Tatum on an ISO. We're going to hunt to switch with Tatum. The Nets, we're going to have Kyrie, KD, hunt switches. Milwaukee, it's Chris Giannis pick and roll. What's that play for Miami? What's their, all else fails. This game is, you know, it's a tie game. What are we going to?

I don't think they know. Because Kyle Lowry declined to a point that you can't trust him in that role that you're describing? For much of the season, it looked like he was like, I'm not going to try to score. And I think he's become a lot better. They played that game against Boston right after Rob Williams got hurt. We're down the stretch. It was all Kyle Lowry and Bam out of biopic and rolls.

That was how they scored. That was, I think, the best and most important fourth quarter they had all season. I think he can do it. And it's not that I don't think it's a mention of like, or a situation where he's declined. It's just, if that's your best, it's pretty good, but it's not all those other things we just mentioned. It can work, but it's not as thankable as all those other guys. You're right. Like that big game against Boston he had end of March, it showed that he still can do it when he needs to do it.

And there may come a night for Miami where Hero doesn't have it going on, where Butler's shot is not falling and the spacing isn't there because out of bio maybe has to be on the court, where Robinson isn't able to get. it going on dribble handoffs or strews can for that matter. And that could be the night where Kyle Lari has to show that he can still get 25, 30 points for you. And that's where like there's some level of confidence with the heat because they have so many options, but also

some pessimism to your point where it's like what Tatum did that other night for Boston against KD while defending Kevin Durant. Like it's mind blowing the level that he's continuing to reach as a player where he's defending one of the best scorers in the league today.

one of the greatest scores of all time, nearly in the entire 48 minutes, and also just generating basket after basket for you on offense. So he's on another level from some of the other players. I have this ongoing bit with my podcast co-host. I mentioned on Michael Pino. We host the open floor pot together. I have this ongoing bit, like, that Boston has this, like, really sophisticated state-sponsored media apparatus. I refer to it. Refer to the city as a Democratic People's Republic of Boston.

And it just is a very sophisticated, intelligent, like, propaganda machine. Marcus Smart winning defensive player of the year, perfect example. Unfortunately, like, everything about Tatum's true. That guy is, it just, it blows me away. It really does. I mean, you mentioned, like, two-way. He, like, clamped up KD. I mean, it was late shot off five seconds, but.

First time being a block on him, too. What? Yeah. Who blocks, KD? It was really ridiculous. Just the two-way effort he had in that game. And like just that's a thing. It's like in the last three minutes of a playoff game,

especially as you get in the later rounds. Like it's a different sport entirely than what we've watched even up until now. And it's just who are the best guys? And can they get a shot? And I trust him maybe second most out of anybody in the conflict. And also one of the quick thing on the Celtics, you know, probably and the machine that you're talking about.

with Marcus Smart winning defensive player of the year, big congratulations to him. I love Marcus Smart. He is one of my favorite players of all time. He was one of my dad's favorite players of all time. I love Marcus Smart so, so much. I didn't vote for him. But which, like, I hope that shows that I'm not letting relationships

paint my vote. I love Marcus Smart. But, like, I do think with the award, this year's award was a team award. I really think that's the way voters thought about it, but they gave the award to, arguably the best defender on by far the best defense in basketball. And I look at it through that lens in the sense that,

not that we should look at the award every year like that, but there's something to it. Because defense is about five. Yes. It is about five. And Markers Smart is the heartbeat of that roster. He is the leader of that roster. So in that sense,

I completely understand that voters making the choices that they did. And I'll say this too, like, at the end of the day, like, and I think this is true for a lot of the, award feels this year. There are like eight people that if you told me could win most improved, I'd be like, yeah, that person definitely is it. And I think the same goes for Dents for the defensive player of the year. And there are people who try to isolate it and you could do it to the best you can. But removing context from defensive stats, it's just, it's almost impossible.

And you can't just, you can't only judge how good a player is on defense based on what they're doing in isolations, et cetera, what they're doing on switches. I mean, Jimmy Butler is a perfect example of someone who I thought had has had an unbelievable two-game defensive stretch here but there's no way to measure what he's really done and for smart as much grief as I'm giving people like he's a fantastic defender on what like probably the only team that has a defense

that has stood the test of time like even good defenses in the NBA now are like kind of bad historically Boston's was not like Boston's is like right up there with all the great defenses of the last 20 years I had this stat and I wonder if it's still held up through the end of the regular season, but their starting five with Rob was better than the KD Warriors in 2017. Like, that's how good they were.

And obviously so much of that was defensively. So as much as I'm, you know, criticizing the machine, there was no bad pick for defensive player of the year this year. There were a lot of good options. I agree. And that's why in some ways I'm a little, I don't know if I want to call it disappointed, but I wish the discourse wasn't about, like, from the heat side, oh, it's ridiculous that BAMB wasn't nominated.

I was stoking the flames. I just want to throw that up there. And I understand, but, like, also, it's like there can only be one. Yeah. And in some ways, I kind of wish maybe the NBA would set a minimum amount of games that are required to qualify for the awards. Therefore, you're not, there's not even the discussion about Bam not winning it. Then, and instead is like, oh, well, at least they made all defense. and he just didn't win DPOY,

but he's still in an unbelievable season. Like, I just wish, no, that's such a good point. And, like, the NBA is doing nobody any favors with, like, I don't want MVP criteria and let's not wait into the MVP discourse this

week of all weeks. But, yes, like, at minimum, a games played would be, would save a lot of people, a lot of time.

Yeah. And particularly, I don't care about voters getting heat, but, like, the team side, I wish the players didn't have to stress about that. I wish the teams didn't have to even be, you know, think about it.

But anyway, they're the ones getting paid millions of dollars to deal with it. So, yeah. Well, one last thing before we go here, the Hawks, they, of course, actually lost on the other side of this game here. They're down 2-0 in the series now. I was watching this game tonight, and my mind keeps going to the off-season. I know they're only down 2-0. They're not out of the series entirely, but I can't help but think about what's missing

from this Hawks team. In your assessment, what does Atlanta need to think about as they build this thing out moving forward based off of their early round here. So they're in an interesting position. First of all, I'm with you. I don't think they're out of the series. I still think at some point they're going to get a crazy shooting night from Trey.

He wasn't bad tonight. I mean, he had 10 turnovers, which is not good. But they're going to just, they're just going to get a night where he scores 38 and hits 8 of 11 from 3. And that's going to be that. Like, I just, I believe that's going to happen. Bogie was nuts tonight. To me, I still think that.

It's weird because I really like their supporting cast in terms of like, I want Bogdanovich on my team. I love DeAndre Hunter. But it's kind of like what we were saying with Luca for the longest time, how they've taken off with Dinwiddie. What we've seen from Jalen Brunson is they have other guys who can handle the ball and do things, you know, they can playmake a little bit. I mean, Brunson's obviously got that mid-range floater game, et cetera. Like in this stretch, I think, has been good for Dallas because they're showing like we don't have to have Luca have like a six. usage percentage to win a playoff game. And I feel like what the Hawks are missing is they just, they don't have a true second

star. And that's not a knock on, I love John Collins as well. Capella, when he's healthy, has been great for their defense. But I just think they need another creator. They just, they need someone else who can, they can trust the ball in their hands. And that's going to require Trey Young advancing as an off ball player. Yeah. Bogdanovitch goes off tonight, 29 points, 12 of 18.

He was doing the stuff that he did for years overseas, ever, even before. entering the NBA. He's been a clutch bucket getter. He's a killer. Yes. He's a clutch killer. Yeah. If you pull up like his Wikipedia of his like basketball accomplishments, it's like finals MVP. League MVP.

All defense. Like it's everything on on there for him. I'm going to pull it up right now just to hell yeah. Just to pull up the amount of accolades on there for well what it's a long list. You're a league all decade team. You're a league champion. All-year-a-league first team rising star turkish cup winner i mean it's endless for him and he did it for atlanta but he's not

the type of creator you're talking about he's more of a finisher he's more of a pick and roll score not a pick and roll playmaker and what could fully unleash tray is having somebody who can balance the playmaking and the scoring i think bogdanovitch is a part of that equation but he's not the type of player that that you're describing for them it's weird like it's weird with land they have a lot are good pieces and they're definitely not out of the series but but i just feel like there's something missing i think there's something missing i'm just curious what your thoughts are if you had to think of if you know if you're in travis sling shoes like what are there changes that you've kind of had your eye on or something that you think would work what would you like to see

i mean i i want to see tray embrace his inner step is and i think if tray if let's say i sit down with Trey Young and I say, hey, I want us to get another primary ball handler. That might mean that instead of averaging 30 and 10, you might be at 26 and 10, or 25 and 10. You might not score as much, but you're going to be racking up assist. You're going to be sharing the ball. We want you coming off of screens and handoffs and cutting and showing what you can do off ball because he's such a smart player. He's a smart player. He can make those reeds off ball just as well as he does on the ball.

because I think Shlank Shlank built this thing out with his experience with the Warriors and mind with having that type of ball movement not necessarily like the more hardened style we see with Trey. And that's not a knock against Trey.

He's unbelievable. I had him on my LL NBA team. He had an excellent season. He's a great player. But I still think the next level for him is getting better off the ball. So in that sense, what would I want to do?

It's finding another shot creator probably at the forward position like ideally a 6-7, 6-8, 6-9 type of guy, easier said than none to find that. But if you're speaking theoretically, like to me, that's, it takes buy-in from Trey, but also finding that player, which is like not an easy thing to do. Like, what about you? Do you think that's a sensible approach for them moving forward? No, I think that's a fantastic point.

I think that's a fantastic point because, yeah, he is. He just, he dominates the ball. Obviously, he's bringing up every possession. I also think that they're going to need to figure out what they're doing with the defense because I'm a big John Collins fan in practice though you mentioned they got to play a little bit more Warriors-esque

like defensively though I don't think that it's going to work with Collins at the 5 I mean Okongwu I think is going to be their kind of their big of the future and I think he's had really good moments even if this hasn't been his best series but yeah I think it's what you're saying they kind of need someone who can you're not going to find draymond but they need like that person

who can hold the ball to stop the key and direct the offense that's not trey young um while tray is just drawing so much attention off the ball and i think they're also going to need to figure out you know because for years i was like why is this team going to trade john collins he's so good i don't know that i'm giving up on him but whether it's like they need to have like a powwow summit whatever like they also need to figure out what they're going to do defensively to make it work because I unfortunately think Trey's almost always going to be an issue on that at. One name that I want to mention from the draft for Atlanta that I like, Jeremy Sohan, I'm not sure how much you follow the draft, but he's a prospect of freshman out of Baylor.

And Sohan kind of fits in that like six nine ball handers type. Was he the dude with the like the blonde hair? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I love that guy. Yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah. The 18 minutes of him that I watched this whole year, I was like, I want

this guy on my team. Yeah. So in those 18 minutes, though, you see a guy who can do a little bit with the ball, defend multiple positions. It's like, ooh, that's Draymond-esque at the least. He's built,

built in that mold. I'd love to see Trey with a player like that. I mean, maybe, Dion, I'm a big, like, Deontre Hunter fan.

I don't know that he could, can you try to grow him into that role? Can you give him more responsibility and see how that goes? I'd like to, I'd like to at least see an attempt. But I, I'm with you that I, you know,

I don't think they got, quote, unquote lucky last year, but I do think they had like a bracket that worked for them. Also like I think that Philly series, like the Sixers still outscored them. You know, and it was a seven game series that came down to the end of game seven. So I, they can't get too caught up in what happened in that run. And I think they need to experiment a little bit more, certainly.

Well, I'm looking forward to this upcoming weekend. Got a lot, a lot of good games. And I thank you for coming on, man. This is a lot of fun. five. A first conversation. Hey, man. This was a ton of fun, man. Seriously, our first time is we got right into it.

Thank you so much for having me on, man. I really appreciate it. Keep up the great work. Thank you, man. You as well. You crushed it with that, Aiton article. And I'm looking forward to everything else you're coming on.

That's fine. Thank you again to Rohan for joining The Void. Thank you to Jesse Lopez for producing. And a big thank you to you for listening to The Void. I'll be back on Thursday. That's Thursday this week with another episode of the mismatch. That's our schedule this week. A lot of good playoff action coming your way.

Thank you.