The Mismatch - The Suns Could Nab the 1-seed in the West From the Jazz. Plus: The Timberwolves’ Future Remains Murky and the Trail Blazers’ Defense Is Historically Bad.

Episode Date: April 27, 2021

Verno and KOC get into the odd phenomenon of the Minnesota Timberwolves sweeping the Utah Jazz this season and where the Timberwolves can go with their roster (0:30). Then they talk about Kevin Love phoning it in for $31 million (15:27), the Phoenix Suns snapping the Knicks’ winning streak (23:13), and Western Conference playoff seeding (29:33). Finally, they talk about the Trail Blazers’ disappointing season, historically bad defense, and what, if anything, the team can do in the future to remake its roster (36:10).  Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On R2C2, Cecee Sabathia and Ryan Rucco guide listeners through everything going on in the MLB, NBA, and NFL. They also talk to friends, athletes, and celebrities about the world of sports, and much more. Check out R2C2 with CCet and Ryan Rucco on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mishman. And join me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.E.O. Concer. Kevin O. O. Concer. Kevin O. O. Kahneman. Kevin O. O. Kavana. Kevin O. How are you doing?

We're down to the home stretch. We've got what? Like most teams got about 12 games, 13 games at most left. It's flown by. It really has. Everything has. It's already April 27th. That's because there's games every single day.

Yeah. And some of these teams are playing like six games in eight days, nine games and 12 days. It's really very difficult to keep. up with the schedules and you always have at the tail end of the season, strange scores come across the bottom line. As you are scanning through or you're checking box scores the next morning, there's always, at this point in the season, those very strange box scores, this season, probably even more so, given where teams are within the standings, but more importantly, where they

are within their schedule, which we've talked about throughout the season, it's just impossible to keep up with. You're right? Because usually you would know, oh, that's a schedule loss, right? But you can't keep up with all of these teams and where they're at in their schedule and whether this is some kind of terrible spot that we would in another season, you know, been able to point out, it feels like, hell, half the games are bad spots for teams. You know what I mean?

just because there's been so many games packed into a short amount of time. It's an odd season to say the least. Yeah, I mean, we saw that last night with that Utah game. Losing to Minnesota. Okay, so we've got this Utah-Minnesota game that goes on. And there's a couple of things out of this. Last night was interesting because we had two different players apologize and we'll kind of hit them one by one.

The first apology was from Rudy Gobert, where he said, I effed up that last possession, which he did. Left DiAngelo Russell, right? You know, left them open and he had a wide open layup to win the game. Wide open layup and Minnesota goes and they win the game. And interestingly enough, so far this year, Utah is 44 and 14 against the NBA. And they are 0 and 3 against the Minnesota Timberwolves. that out.

They're 44. How's that possible? They're 44 and 14. They've only lost 14 games to anybody not named the Timberwolves this year. I guess bad match up or they've just taken them lightly three times or whatever the circumstance may be. But what, you know, what last night led to, this is, these are, these are why these games, an odd outcome like that can be important.

First of all, you've got Minnesota fans that are really like starting to get a little bit excited, feeling like they're onto something because DeAngelo Russell last night, 27, 12, make seven three-pointers, hit that last game-winning shot. He's 10 of 16 from the field. And they've only played 14 games the entire season. with DeAngelo Russell and Carl Anthony Towns. They are 8 and 6 in those games. Not too shabby.

Not too shabby. It's not too shabby, but, and I don't want to, look, I don't want to be the bearer of bad news here, but I will say it has been my experience over the years, that getting very excited, when your team has been awful all season, and then you get excited at the end of the season when nobody cares about playing you,

and all of a sudden you're playing well. I'm telling you as someone who's been there. I have rooted for terrible teams. I have gotten very excited. Like, oh, we're on to something. Look, we've got a young core here. And then you get to the next season and you realize, oh, no, like,

that was more about you're at the tailoring. end of the season. The other team thinks they can sleepwalk against you and you catch them, right? And so look, who knows? Is there excitement more about the process of how these games are happening

and less about the results though? Because I look at Minnesota and the way I think about them like the 8 and 6 stat, I do not know that until you just told me just now. I had no idea. But when I look at the Timberwolves, it's like, okay, we've seen Anthony Edwards get better over the course of the year. Carl Anthony Towns being used in a different role under

Chris Finch, you know, offensively, more playmaking on defense, more defending on the wing, and it's working out really great. You're seeing guys like Jada McDaniels. McDaniels is one of the best defenders in basketball as a rookie. I mean, he's probably one of the 30 best defenders in the NBA. And he's just so good, so smart off the ball, so versatile on the ball. I love that guy. And, you know, guys like Nas Reid looking like a legitimate rotation center.

And so, you know, those are the main guys that come to mind. And like, that's something to feel pretty good about, regardless of your record, regardless of if you're over 500 of those guys or if you're not. So, like, I think Timberwolves fans are in the right to feel like something's, something's on track here. Yeah, oh, it's better than what it was. No doubt.

Something, they're on track. I just don't know about believing in. And Russell is going to be an unbelievable case study because there have been a bunch of teams, or a few teams already, that have decided, okay, we're fine with moving him. And then he has now, landed in Minnesota, and we don't have a massive sample size of him there.

No. But is he a guy that ends up being, you know, as he grows into a full-grown man, he ends up maturing, and we always know he has this exceptional talent, but six or, it might take, you know, six or seven years into his career before you fully realize what he is as a player. and he becomes what people thought he could be coming out of the draft. Or is he what he is, which is like our Stefan Marbury, which is he's a, you know, a guy that's going to put up really good numbers.

He's going to wow you and going to have some highlights. He's, you know, the counting statistics are going to be there. And he's going to lose a ton. Like, I don't know. I really don't. I'm not saying that the book is completely written. on him, especially when you come into the league at, you know, 19 years of age after playing one year of college, and you've been bounced around from team to team, and he's probably played for six different

coaches and whatever else and all different environments. I mean, so much is going to hinge on that, right? Does that work and those two work and how good is DeAngelo Russell? Part of me thinks it's going to have a lot to do with how the roster and the system evolves, because DeAngelo Russell, he has serious limitations on the defensive end of the floor, which are, you know, unless he really ramps up his effort and focus, intensity levels, that's not going to change. But offensively, I'm enamored with the potential fit of Kat and Delo.

So, like, Delo, the perimeter guy, what does he need next to him? Somebody who can help a little bit with the playmaking while also providing defense, if they were to get the number one pick and get Cade Cunningham, that would be an unbelievably interesting fit for that back court. If they were to get Evan Mobley and pair him in the front court with Cat and you'd have Cat

who looks more comfortable defending on the wing and Mobley who can defend the interior as like a drop defender or a switch defender. He can do so many different things on defense with him and I want to see what the offense looks like through Kat next season because they made some tweaks

slight tweaks during the season but with a full off season, a full training camp, does Finch ramp up the usage of a playmaking version of Cat even more? Because some of the passes, Carl Anthony Towns makes, are just unbelievable. You know, like, nobody can do what Yokic does in Denver. Like, he is an outlier as a passer. He's one of the greatest passers we've ever seen play the game of basketball. One of the greatest passers in any sport ever, period, Nicola Yokic is.

However, you can look at what Yokic does and think, oh, well, what could Kat do in that role, you know, with his passing vision, with his, you know, he's a daring passer too sometimes like Yokic can be. Could Cat be even more of a facilitator that could allow Russell to have the proper offensive role? And I think that that's the way I look at it when you ask that question, Chris, is like, what happens with the system? Because Delo has the talent. And can that with DeAngelo Russell and Carl Anthony Towns? Can when that's your point guard and that's your center, can that hang? Can that stand up defensively? Defensively. Right. Can that? I mean, because otherwise-

Or Cabley, both of those guys would help in that category. Before we get into them and hell, they may give up their pick. You know, that didn't help last night. That didn't help last night. In terms of the odds, right? Sometimes you can lose when you win. And it certainly at this point in the season. Top three protected. That's scary, Chris. That didn't help with the odds. I am one that wants to believe that playing it out is good cars.

Marma. I don't know this year. I do. And that you're not going to be rewarded if you're Oklahoma City and you end the season with 50 straight losses or whatever the hell it's going to be. That being said, OKC is taking so. Oh, my God. It's ridiculous. It's truly ridiculous.

They are like, they, they, they, they, somewhere Sam Hinky is watching all of those games buck naked. He's just loving this. He can't love it more. If this is destiny for someone to lose just horrendously over and over again. 14 losses in a row. 14 losses in a row of the month of April, the 30th ranked offensive rating, 29th on defense. Only the magic or worse on defense to the thunder this month. They have a chance at 25.

They could end the season. If they ran it out, I went and look. So they lost. A, 14. Do they have a tough schedule? No, no, no. I'm just saying it doesn't matter. What does it matter?

Every game is tough schedule. They're 30th, Kevin. The Thunder have lost 14 in a row. And I saw John Hollager tweet this this morning. The Thunder have lost 14 in a row and all but three of them by double figures. 25 games season ending losing streak is definitely on the table. just an amazing tank to the finish line. Good for them.

Good for them. I admire that. Back to Minnesota. Before we get to the Cunningham thing, before we get to Mowbly and how those would fit, let's talk about what we think about Russell and towns. And we talked about those guys being like kind of centerpieces. And then who they drafted number one overall last year. Anthony Edwards.

Right? And where he kind of slides into the mix with those. to do you think Edwards this was this was in theory what they wanted um when they drafted Edwards they knew they had Russell they knew they had towns and some people said hey look it doesn't matter if you got Russell and you got towns you should still take um lamello right because they had the number one pick there were some that were out there that said that or you know there was the Wiseman stuff that got talked about but they ended up taking Anthony Edwards does Edwards do you think where does he fit in when you're talking about more of towns, more of Brussels,

you know, and kind of how they fit together? You think Edwards fits there? Or do you think it'd be better if they won the lottery and found, you know, I mean, is he, is he the third win? Is he the third guy in that triumphant in your mind if you're building them? Um, yeah, I'd say third. I think Cat is a real special, truly special talent. And he's your one or two, depending on who you get in this year's draft. Edwards, ideally, I mean, he's your spark plug. He's your guy who is a guy energized around the defensive end of the floor, who defends multiple positions, makes highlight plays,

who goes off for 35 points on some nights. That's ideally like what a young Anthony Edwards is long term is a different conversation. But we're talking like the next couple years when you get to start winning with Carl, Anthony Towns. So I think finding that playmaking, another playmaking presence in the drafts would be, would add a nice balance because DeLo and Edwards lean more towards scoring. Cat can do a bit of both for you. He's been a score of most part in this career, but he can do more playmaking.

Finding somebody in the middle who adds either a lot more defense or a lot more playmaking helps balance things out. So I'd say third in the totem pole or, you know, is ideal. In terms of your timelines, though, and this is too much wolves. honestly, but the truth is they had that win last night. They've gotten Russell back. They, like we said, they,

they are a team that certainly had a disaster of a season. They might use either draft equity or Edwards or young players in order to just get some veterans on there because if we're talking about the timeline, you know, like,

Towns is ready to win now. And if you are going to win with Russell, he's theoretically ready now. and just adding another rookie to that mix when you're trying to win now, it's just not going to play. It's just not. So you might actually use some of your young assets. You've got to decide, right?

You're kind of, you know, you don't, you're not all on the same timeline. Certainly Edwards isn't on the same timeline or if you won the draft, that's not on the same timeline as what you would have with Towns and Russell. And I do think sooner before later, you need to win with Towns. or he's going to be the next one that says, get me out of here. Right? That's for sure. The other guy that apologized last night was on a bad team,

and that is Kevin Love of the Cleveland Cavaliers. He had one of the most ridiculous viral moments of the entire season where he just slaps the ball and bounds to the Toronto Raptors out of frustration. They throw it for a wide open three, and they hit it. Now, what people, there is not a scoreboard that is being shown in the videos that I saw that were all going around social media last night. I see one in any video either, yeah. Okay, but for context, that's a two possession game when he does that.

It's a two possession game. And of course, they ended up getting run out the rest of the way in that game. And Kevin Love goes in and he apologizes after the game to his teammates or whatever else. but I just, you know, and this is, this is the downside of quitting on a season. And I do think that that has a profound impact on the players on the team. And, you know, I don't know about going forward. Like if you're Kevin Loving, I've been to Kevin Love for it. Bro, just ask, like, demand a trade, ask to get out, go to Kobe Altman, have a, you know, get a buyout, whatever the hell you want to do.

but bro, don't go on the cord and that is, what he did last night is disgraceful. Like truly disgraceful. That's a two possession game. Your team is, you know, these guys stink, but they're still fighting. They're still playing.

The ones that are getting the opportunity to play, they're playing. And they play like they care, right? Even though they're up against it every single night, they're putting a position by that organization not to win. That kind of stuff drives me crazy. And I do think when you're, Kevin Love should be somebody that if you're on that team, he's showing you the rope.

That's somebody you look up to. This is a guy that's made all-star teams. This guy that's been on a championship team. And just because you are disenchanted with your plight doesn't mean that you, and I know he apologized after the game, but bro, you get paid $31 million a year. and you hadn't done nothing. You didn't even play this year. And then you do play.

And this is the example that you set when you got a bunch of young guys on that team that are like, I mean, what do you think those guys feel? Your apology, you're hollow, man. Like the apologies, like that is, to me, incredibly hollow. Because your actions speak louder than your words. And that was your actions. I mean, that's how you act. In a game that wasn't done, just because of your level of frustration, you don't think

everybody's frustrated on that team. You don't think they all drive to work. And like, this sucks. You know, I'm going to go get my ass beating a basketball game again. My friends are going to text me, you know, I mean, that's no fun. And not to mention, three other guys, you know, Nance breaks his thumb. Two other guys get injured. So the rest of the way, Cleveland will be in the absolute dumps.

But I wish some of these guys that aren't in their ideal situations would comport themselves in a way that was professional. And what he has done, this has really, this has been a mark on him. It has since Kyrie was able to get out. LeBron was able to get out. He was kind of the last one standing. But you still, the way you act is to me, I do think that that's, I don't think that's right. Not when you're still getting paid $31 million a year. If you told me it was a, you know, a 20-point deficit late in the game.

I'd be like, yeah, I get it. Everybody gets frustrated. You know, it happens. It was a mistake. I'm sure he didn't mean to do it. But a six-point game in the third quarter with a chance to close the quarter strong and, you know, cut the deficit and stay in the game. That's where I take real issue with it in a moment like that.

And, you know, it's great that he took some accountability after the game. apologize and all that. But as you said, actions often speak louder than words and it was just disappointing to see that. And I'm sure if you're on the same team and you see somebody to do that, that's deflating in and of itself to see that happen. And the way they did collapse in the fourth quarter, it does seem like it was totally to see that happen. Even if you're limited with the amount of guys available,

you get to compete. You got to compete. Yeah. And I'm just saying, I don't like the whole, I'm not in the situation, so I ain't going to play. Like we talked about it with Hardin at the beginning of the year with Houston. and we, you know, the Blake Griffin stuff, he's certainly playing much more inspired basketballs that he's in Brooklyn. But you're not,

like some of these guys that you're not going to be in the ideal. It's like, just don't play. Don't play. Ask for whatever it may be, right? But like to go out there and to do that, that to me is infinitely worse than just acting like you're injured all year. It's like you don't play and you're still collecting your check.

In terms of that, buyout, Chris, Kevin Love makes 31.3 million next season and then 28.9 million for the 2022-23 season. Still got a ways to go on that contract, two more seasons. We'll see if at some point, Biout talk ever starts with him.

I'm not so sure we'll be at that point starting next year. What I'm saying is, and again, I know it's too much to sacrifice, but I mean, he hasn't been worth that contract in the least. They gave him that, he hasn't earned a dime of that. He's shooting 40% from the field right now,

12 points per game. He's become a lower level role player, which is sad to say. I mean, only a 32 years old. Some of the injuries he's sad. Look, if you put a net jersey on him, Kevin Love would be awesome again. That's what bothers me. To me, that is your character. It just is. If you're on one of these rat teams, the fact that you don't, like, these guys now, they just don't even play. They don't even try. It's like, come on, bro. The thing is what Cleveland is, I know right now they're depleted. they have a lot of guys out, but they still have some talent.

I mean, I know they're Cleveland, but Jared Allen, it's a good center. Darius Garland is really coming along. Isaac O'Coro is an impressive working. So it's not like there's, there's a lack of talent around you to try to win with, especially in that game. Here's what's insane, Kemp. Like, if you went back to like a week or two ago, they weren't completely out of 10. Oh, and Darius Garland was saying, we're going to play our best basketball from here moving forward.

And then you got to get Kevin Love back. theoretically, you know, I mean, hell, you never know. It's not like any of those teams ahead of them or unbelievable. They wouldn't be fighting for tan if they were unbelievable. And so you weren't completely out of it if you played it out and you didn't, you know, suffer all these injuries. Now it's going to go completely the other way, right? I just, I don't know. I don't like it.

And I know that he apologized last night, but that's a shame. I feel bad for those guys that are out there that are actually really giving it all they have every night. And they don't have their contracts. Those other guys, they ain't got $100 million in the bank. They don't have close to $100 million in the bank. Half of them may be out of the league within three years. No lie. And trying to earn that money oftentimes as comes as a result of competing in games and having opportunities to win.

Playing together, you know? Yeah, right. that was a shame. So that happened last night. Other things that we need to get to today that have taken place since we last spoke was last night, the Nick streak, which was unbelievable.

I mean, it was a nine-game winning streak. Got snapped by Chris Paul, who was barking at anybody that would listen last night as he hit the threes down the stretch and he ended their winning streak twofold. Number one, this is not, in my mind, a demerit at all on the Nix. The Sons are better and they are significantly better than the New York Nix. The run that the Nix was, were on is absolutely incredible.

And just for point of view on this, the Nix for the, I went and looked this up yesterday. If we just went to April, they have been generally in the tops in the league in defense throughout the year. They have been, you know, anywhere from seven up at any given time. For the month of April, because we're here at the very tail end of it, the Knicks are sixth in the NBA in defensive rating at 108.5. the Knicks in the month of April, and this is what was shocking, have had the fifth best offense in the NBA for the month of April. Now, the defense thing, we knew that Tibido team, and they've been great defensively, and that's probably why they've exceeded expectations all year. But fifth in offensive rating for the month of April, and look, we're at the end. We're at the end of April.

And for them to have a top five offense over the course of this month, despite them getting done in by Chris Paul last night to end that win streak is rather incredible. I don't know how that roster has been top five defensively throughout this year. And I sure as hell don't know how they became top five offensively in the month of April. This is some wizardry that is going on. You know, and the interesting thing about what you're touching on here is the fact that Tibbs and Monty Williams on the other side for Phoenix are two of the leading coach of the year candidates. They've both done an unbelievable job all year long. And with the Knicks, I think we saw some sprinkles of what makes their defense special even when the Suns were scoring. Like Julius Randall made it hard on Chris Paul on some of those possessions down the stretch.

You know, he is a really good defensive player coming from being a negative back in Kentucky, a negative even just a couple years ago on defense. remarkable what he's done. And offensively, I think it's a couple of things. It's the fact that Julius Randall is one of the 20 best players in basketball past couple months. RJ Barrett coming along. And just the tweak in the minutes, you're seeing Alfred Payton, he used to play more minutes than Derek Rose, used to play more minutes than Bullock and used to play more minutes. I think he'd more than anybody in the guard wing rotation. And now his minutes have dropped significantly only 15 minutes last night. So just a little bit of a shuffle

has helped the Knicks offense. And for the Suns, man, I mean, I know they had that loss last week, but they're legit really good. And you can't count them out with the pieces that they have. Last night, this is when

you got to perk up a little bit. They're playing a team on a nine-game win streak on the road. And Jay Crowder wasn't in that game last night. Dario Sarge wasn't in that game last night, right? These are guys that are going to be their top seven guys, you know, hopefully would he get, you know, in the most high leverage games, and they're still able to win this morning Steve Alardi, at Dr. Alardi, who is the creator of a real plus minus.

I hope I'm getting his name right. It was sent to me, The Phoenix Suns take seriously, Chris Bernice shows theorem. Don't play guys who suck. They own the, and, NBA's second best record, despite having no players in the top 25 of estimated plus minus, how their top nine guys are all good, all with estimated plus minus is greater than plus.5. And so it is fascinating to see that when we're looking at the estimated plus minus number that he put up, an advance number that they don't have anybody like exceptional in that, but they also don't have anybody crappy. And the whole idea, you know, years ago I talked about how especially as things get

evened out in the NBA where you just, you can't just spend, outspend your opponents or spend a fortune on guys. it is the acquisition not having to play guys that you lose like hell when they are on the floor over and over again. And if you could somehow minimize that completely or eliminate that, that you would be so much better off. Just don't play guys that suck. And I'll be damned. Like, according to this, he's saying they're top nine guys. There's nobody of those top nine that you bring.

bring in that it's a like they lose when he's on the court. I mean, even some of the guys on the list like he sent, um, the top nine typical rotation players were all in the good category for his stat, but even some of the guys like Javon Carter, Tori Craig. It's not like they're absolutely horrible players. Those guys can come in and do a good job for you. So, you know, this son's team is so deep and they're able to withstand a guy being

out for a game or two or three or a quarter or two. And, you know, some of the wins they've had over the course of the season have just been remarkable. And they've been remarkably consistent. And they've gotten better over the course of the year two. One game back, Kev. One game back from the number one spot. It's a real race. Like, that spot matters a lot.

Yeah. And you wonder, you know, obviously in Memphis, what we were talking about yesterday, I was goofing. And I was saying, like, as it stands right now, if you, if you hop Portland, if the Grizzlies hop Portland, and you're seven and eight, like, is there, if the clippers were to get up there, like to two, I was sitting there saying, like, I don't know if you know, do you lose the first one? Yeah. Just so you can try to win the second one so that you could at least avoid the clippers in the first. I mean, you can't do that, right?

You can't do that, but there is, yeah. No, there is no, that is one of the things that I had not thought about that this. This also puts away, you know, we talked about the teams like a lot of teams not punting on the season because it would be irresponsible to their fan bases to punt on the season when you still have a chance at least getting it, right? That you could at least get 10. So there's more teams that are going to attempt to be competitive. The other angle is you do always have standings jockeying at the end of the season. Especially this year. You can't do that.

Well, well, this year though, kind of for Phoenix and Utah because you, in all likelihood, the Lakers will be in the four or the five spot. Probably they're just going to stay in the five spot. They're two and a half up on Dallas, four games back from Denver. So odds are they're staying at five. If you're Utah, do you want to have a date with the, the Lakers or the Clippers in round two? Either way, it's going to be tough.

Lakers and Clippers. Who do you rather face in a round two potentially? Healthy? I'd rather, I'd rather play the Lakers. even though the clippers have been wait you'd rather face no no healthy healthy I'd rather play the clippers even though they are the hottest team since the all-star break

yeah despite their loss last night and ultimately I think with those groups you know those two teams were talking about Lakers and Clippers you don't know what the health is going to look like in round two so maybe you just however it falls is however it falls you're not stressing too hard about or thinking too hard about falling from number one to two or going up from two to one it's just whatever

happens. And you may, you may get some calls against the clippers. You ain't getting no calls. You're not getting calls against LeBron James. No. You're not getting the whistle. That's a very interesting thought there. The third team on the floor. Everybody talks about the matchups, but there's always a third team on the floor. Yeah. You're not getting the whistle. You're not going to get the favorable way. When is the last time that you watched a LeBron team and you thought, wow, they totally got screwed by the officials all game? Like nobody has ever had 40 free throws to 14 free throws. You know what I mean?

Like we've seen with other great players over the years. Like that's just, that's the way it goes. And he is, he has earned respect over the years. I'm sure. LeBron could tell you a bunch of games. I'm sure he probably,

I'm sure he probably could. Yeah, but, you know, I'm talking about at the bottom with that standings jockeying. That's what you can't do. You know what I mean? Like,

you could try to figure out, hey, this is the second round opponent. But just in terms of the first round opponent, because how about this, Kev? Let's say Dallas dropped to seven. Well, now all of a sudden, two isn't nearly as desirable, right? If you're having to face Luca in the first round. He's got to win, though. I know. Like, they got to win.

So it's really hard to look at it like one, one and two are going to face them. I lived this years ago. which was the very first time that the Grizzlies made the playoffs. Ten years ago, they knocked out, they were eight C, they knocked out a one-seed San Antonio Spurs team, right? And that season, they were going to be seven, but guess who was seven? The Kobe Lakers. So they lost on purpose so that they would play the Spurs because they knew they could, they could, you know, they had played well against the Spurs all year.

They could maybe knock them out. but the Lakers, that was going to be an enormous problem. And so, I mean, I saw a team lose on purpose to try to get to the lowest seed possible so that they could play who the number one seed is. And you never know. And by the way, that's all go bearer might have been new one. You never know? Oh, right.

It didn't sound like it after the game. I did not. No, that's for sure. But, you know, it is interesting. In reality, it was actually his best defensive player the season, right? That's the way to spin it for the defensive player of the year. That would be kind of crazy if Phoenix ends up getting number one, but it's not the desirable spot. Exactly.

You've really like it's so hard to know because we don't know who's going to be in seven and eight because of the play in and the four and five that you would get a date with the Lakers. In all likelihood, there'll beat Denver in round two. We'll see. Well, the other thing is this Phoenix team, you're running through it for the first time. So, like, they don't have, like, we talk about the scars, you know, as a team. So they could have a tough series in the first round if they drew a Portland or they drew a Memphis or they drew whoever. Every series in the first round, it's going to be tough. Everyone.

Like, if the Warriors get in, do you want to face Stefan Curry? Do you want to face him the way the Warriors have been playing ever since the Wiseman injury? number one in almost every category in the league. Stefan Curry averaging over 35 points. Do you really want to face them? I don't. I don't want to face them. No,

because that guy, he could and he has been Davidson Curry, which is like he may drop 50. Just by himself. It's funny you go all the way back to Davidson Curry and not unanimous MVP Curry. Because that's when he was a one-man show. Yeah, that's why I went back to that.

He's always had, I mean, look, Draymond average is like six points a game. You know, Ubre and Wiggins, like, he is the dude to pay attention to, right? Like, if you held him to 30 or you held him to, well, I say that, if you held him to 25, you're probably winning the game.

That's an accomplishment. But there's a real chance he's going to score 42, right? And then it's a tremendous problem. One of the teams that we mentioned in that, that is in that playoffs, play in spot, or holding on to their top play-in spot is Portland, who I watched to lose twice to Memphis over the weekend. They play again, actually, tomorrow night.

They've got a game. They are about to start a road trip, and they are in a tremendous free fall. You know, they now, it wasn't just about this weekend, which were two huge games against Memphis for state. landings purposes. You go back and look, they've lost nine of their last 11 games. Not just the last two.

They've lost nine of their last 11, including now too many in a row. Five in a row. They have, I think I read yesterday, and forgive me, I can't cite this. I don't know where I read it. But I saw you tweeting about how horrendous their defense is. This year, just to give that context, Kevin, they are on track to have the third worst defense in NBA history. In NBA, you know, many teams and terrible teams there have been in the history of the NBA. You know, many bad teams there have been just nothing teams that have lost a military.

and somehow that team has is on track to become one of the worst statistical defenses ever. That's just unfathomable to me. I mean, so one of the reasons we're seeing the worst defensive ratings ever is the same reason we're seeing some of the greatest offensive ratings ever is just because scoring is so high right now. Sure. Like their relative defensive rating in this season compared to the average defense is still horrible. You know, there's still a bad, bad defense. And, you know, only the Sacramento Kings have a worst defensive rating over the course of the season, which says a lot, you know, that the kings are in the sad spot that they are. And really the difference between Portland and being Sacramento is the presence of Damien Lillard. That's the big difference there. And what he did early in the season when Nurkitt was out, when McCollum was out, and he was elevating his game to an even higher level, that was like MVP level stuff. Now that he's dealing with the hamstring injury, he's missed some games this past month. He doesn't look like himself on the court.

He's not attacking with the same intensity that he did before. The problem is that Portland doesn't have other guys in that team who can lift him up when he needs it. Dane lifted that team up when guys were out. They don't have others who can do the same when he's down. And this roster, in all likelihood, a coaching change might help. You know, bringing in a new voice, someone who is more adaptable on the offensive of the floor who can who just, I mean, just bringing in a different voice can be a good thing, right?

Stats has been there for a long time and they've had some good runs. But I think Blazers fans are in the right to look for that. But it's not just the coaching. It's the whole roster. It's the whole roster. It's Damien Lillard too. Like he is not an impactful defensive player. And building around that can be really hard.

So for Portland, they get to find wings. They get to find like Nurkutjee. They need to refine himself what he was, prior to the injury or they got to find somebody else who can be a room protector. There's just a lot that needs to change for them to have more good moments in the years to come like they did the last seven years. Well, and the crazy thing is you go back and you look at, and Nirkage was out by the West Finals. But I mean, when they played in that West Finals, this was their starting lineup. Damian Lillard, C.J. McCollum, and then Mo Harkless and Al-Farukamino on the wings,

and Enis Cantor started at center. Seth Curry, Evan Turner, Rodney Hood, Myers-Lennard, Zach Collins played a couple minutes here and there. That's been a debacle, by the way. The college thing has been. Just never has been able to stay healthy. Yeah, never been able to stay healthy. But the cancer thing, you're right.

I mean, they don't have, they don't have wings. They don't have guys that can stop you from driving. And when you team that up with nobody to meet you at the rim, you've got, I mean, what do you do? What do you do? At least they had guys then that could like stay in front of you, right? Like they had wings that stayed in front of you that made it difficult for you to just drive. Now it's just a, it's just a sprint to the basket and there's nobody there.

A lot of layup lines and sometimes you watch Portland. There's a surprising amount of open layups and early offense where just the defense just doesn't get back. And the other team beats them up the floor for an easy layup. And that's just inexcusable. And like part of its effort, part of its intensity, part of it's that both McCollum and Lillard aren't stoppers. They're both undersized guards. Like Robert Covington, you trade what you did for him to first round draft picks. I tweeted about this before the season.

And like it's he is one of the best off ball defenders in the entire league. He is awesome. He is a below average on ball defender. And so many times this season, he's been put in positions where he's the guy who needs to keep the guy in front of him. But he rarely ever can. does not move well laterally on the ball and he gets roasted. And I just, I feel badly for Blazers fans because I look at this team today in the last seven years, they never won a championship. They only went to one Western Conference finals, but there are a lot of unbelievable moments, a lot of great

moments. Like, you know that this Chris with the grit and grind grizzlies. There's stuff that you're going to have as part of your memory and part of your life forever. And Blazers fans have that. but I'm not so sure how much of that there will be moving forward because of the current state of the roster, because of the current health of what Nirkich looks like on the court. And I just don't know what the solutions are here. It's fascinating. Something big. They get to do something big? It's fascinating because do you have like, is it a personnel thing?

They just, I mean, surprise. They've got Enis Cantor and Carmelo Anthony and these guys like and they can't defend. Surprise, right? And also let's add Deeming the one in C. him I call him to that list too of the guys who aren't impactful defenders. Like we always mention the role players. Those two guys, even though there's amazing offensive talents, they are not defensive talents. Yeah.

No, no. And again, like, wasn't the lesson they need to be flanked by guys? And I guess that that's the whole Covington thing you're talking about, right? And it's probably why you tried to bring in Derek Jones Jr. and whatever else to try to. And Norman Powell, I mean, again, now you're playing three guards. that was a double down on offense. Real quick, Chris, they better hope Norman Powell stays. They better hope after giving up Gary Tred Jr., who's the best young guy they've drafted

for Norman Powell, they lose him this off season. That is not worked out well. No, it hasn't. I mean, Gary Tren looks really good and Norman Powell hasn't. It's not like Powell's been bad, but it's just, if they lose him to understand, he's going to have a market, he's going to have a market for sure. It can be, look, if you're Norman Powell, you can be more impactful elsewhere. If they don't, if they keep those two guards, you can be more impactful elsewhere.

There's no question. He's going to have options. He's good enough to be a starter. I mean, he's good enough to be a starter in a true position, right, that doesn't put you at a deficit necessarily, right? Now, again, they, they're, I, so it's a personal thing, and then you've talked about the coaching thing because I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm torn on the whole coaching. Look, there is absolutely no reason that that Nick's team should have the defense that they have. We've talked about that a million times.

Like, that's coaching. They are that. They are the defensive team they are because of how they've been coached. Because they've done it with all different guys. They had a high defensive rating where they were playing Austin Rivers, right? And whoever else. So, and now, I mean, it's Derek Rose. Like, they're pretty, it's Alfred Paine.

These are not, it's not like they start some kind of guys that have these great defensive reputations. Julius Randall didn't have a defensive reputation. Derek Rose hasn't had a defensive reputation. Like RJ Barrett does have a defensive reputation. And yet they defend every single night. And so there's part of me that says, hey, regardless of your personnel, you shouldn't be that crappy defensively. And so that is a little bit on Stats. That's fair.

Yeah. On the other hand, what do you expect? On the next, though, Mitchell Robinson, Nearland's, oh well. Those two guys have been really, really impactful as from protectors and having a guy that can be in the interior and not just,

you know, block shots and make highlight plays, but just the presence with their athleticism in length to alter shots and deter defenders from even, or opponents going at the rim. Like, those guys even,

like, Noel's been really good. Like, you're going to have someone like that. All right. Here's the question. could Tom Tibido make the Portland Troil Blazers a good defensive team?

No. No, all right. I don't think so. And that's like I, that Terry, that Terry Stotz gets to keep his job. I said on a Portland radio station yesterday, like they could hire Greg Popovich.

And I don't think this team would be significantly better. They might be a little bit better. But I, I just think this team's issues go beyond coaching. That's the number one thing that needs to change. Yep. But then after that comes the person, changes and that's the hardest part to fix. That's the hardest part. Because even look at the young

guys on this team, Chris, real quick, like Anthony Simons, Nasir Little, Zach Collins. Those guys make sense for what they need. Zach Collins, a defensive big who can shoot threes. And a Sierra Little, a big, burly, like defensive wing, who you hope grows into a spot-out three-point shooter, Anthony Simons, a spark plug guard off the bench, which is what they needed behind Dame and and CJ at one point. Now they have Powell. None of those guys have, worked out. None of them at the level that they needed to them work out this soon. So what they did made sense, it just didn't work out. And that's, it's like, it's just so hard to build a winning team. Keep in mind, I know injuries. They, they weren't good last year. No, they weren't. This is two

years running. That you're fighting for eight. And you know, that's why this season I was so low on him. I'm like, they kept it pretty much the same. And if anything, it's slightly worse. That's why I was low on them. They didn't have a good year last year. And now it's going to be another. it's going to be another year. It's a huge. For them to just expect to fly up in the standings without massive overhaul is that's a fool's errands, especially in the West. A couple of things that we do have to mention that Rock or that Nuggets team is rocking.

Yeah. Even without now, they were in, the Grizzlies were playing their seventh game on the road in succession. So that was excuses, excuses. I'm kidding. That one was circled forever. When you're playing your third game in 72 hours on the road in Denver, like go ahead and chalk that one up. Even though Morant was still amazing last night,

they got blasted in that fourth quarter, really in that third, tail end of the third and then fourth by Denver. But I believe Denver is now six and one. Six and Murray went out. And Michael Porter Jr. Oh, my God. He's been awesome.

Averaging 26 points. six rebounds, 59% from the field, 54% from three, 54% from three, Chris. That's crazy. You remember they were talking about how Houston wanted that as a centerpiece

in a hardened deal? I mean, he's showing why. Yeah. You remember? I mean, oh my goodness. Look, this guy, as we talked about,

he was a number of all those players. Every year up until he was 18 years old, he was the best. Everybody agreed. there was no like this site as this guy, this side as this guy. Like everyone agreed he was the best guy. Everybody across the board. And then the injuries hit. And he wasn't able to play that year at Missouri.

And so like the idea that Michael Porter has become awesome, it's not that shocking. Right. This was this was certainly a possibility. And they just got an awesome. unbelievable steel, truly, unbelievable. Big time. You know what I mean? But they have been outstanding.

Another team that we talked about, you know, we were just talking about the Blazers and a couple of years removed from the, you know, their conference finals and now it's gone totally the wrong way. Kevin, I'm going to tell you this. I'm about at my wits end with that heat team. I keep waiting. I just keep waiting for them to turn the corner. And like, I mean, God, you should go look at their box score from last night and who they play.

coming off the bench. I mean, they didn't have a hero. They didn't have none. They didn't, I mean, they were out guys. But still, I mean, they take this home loss to the Bulls last night on a night where Butler has 30 plus in the game. I just keep waiting for them to like hit a stride. And they have just been average as hell all here. Chris, you, you're not a Gabe Vincent fan?

Who? I mean, he played 30 minutes last night, right? Yeah, one of seven, three. There was another name on there that went one of six from three, and I didn't even know who the hell that was. Oh, Max Truce? Max Truce. I mean, he went to DePaul.

So what? What does that mean? Like, I should know him? DePaul doesn't even have a camera at their games. What do you think? It's not like it's Quentin Richardson playing at DePaul. DePaul hasn't done anything in 20 years. Stephen Hunter and Quentin Richardson?

This is Bobby Simmons or whoever? These are the guys that went to DePaul, and that was like, 100 years ago. But yeah, man, I'm not out on them. I'm just worried because I thought that heat team was still going to be a bitch to play in the playoffs. And they may be, but, God, I just, I wait for him to turn it on and maybe move up the standings a little bit. And that just has not happened at all.

Last one, the tank watch is on. Oklahoma City, we mentioned their all-time tanking. And now Cleveland, Larry Nance, your beloved Larry Nance broke his thumb. so he's now going to be out. They lost three other guys to injury. My beloved Larry Dance. Three guys to injury. So Cleveland's going to now, you'd imagine,

just punt the rest of the way, but they probably won too many games. Houston, John Wall is out for the rest of the year, so they're punting. And then you've got these teams that are like winning the weird games. Detroit wins last night. Minnesota wins last night. Sacramento wins last night.

I think the only one that is 100, percent committed to sucking is Oklahoma City. And that is undeniable. They are 100 percent committed. And they may lose 25 to end the season, historic run to say the least. And so I don't know. I think we thought that it would at least be a group of teams

attempting to be non-competitive and rack up losses. It appears that we've only got one that is all in on being awful. Okay, C, baby. Is the Oklahoma City Thunder. Kevin, it should be a fun week. There's going to be a lot that takes place over the course of the next week. And those standings will inevitably move a lot. I will talk to you on Friday. This episode came together. thanks to the work of associate producer Sasha Ash All, and we will talk to everybody on Friday. Looking forward to having fun with everybody.