The Mismatch - The Warriors Flatten the Lakers in Game 2, the Bucks Fire Coach Bud, and Joel Embiid Returns

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

Verno and KOC come together after Tristan Thompson takes the court once again in the blowout Lakers-Warriors Game 2 to parse through the Warriors’ stellar adjustments, Klay Thompson’s unbelievable performance, and how the Lakers may be able to answer in Game 3 (1:00). Then they discuss the Bucks’ firing of coach Mike Budenholzer and whether there can be truly great coaches with longevity in the NBA anymore (28:38), the Nuggets’ thrashing of the Suns in Game 2 (42:30), Joel Embiid’s return in a Game 2 loss against the Celtics (52:30), and a Jimmy Butler–less Game 2 of Heat-Knicks (1:00:48). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producers: Sasha Ashall and Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody. I'm Brian Barrett, former Boston Sports Radio Guy, and now host of the new Ringer show Off the Pike that'll cover all your favorite Boston teams and stories from Fenway to Foxborough to the Garden and beyond. We're reacting to all the biggest games and moments with episodes at least three times a week featuring myself and some of your favorite guests at the Ringer and in the city. Plus, if the Celtics or the Patriots make a surprise trade, if the Red Sox's going to run, or if any news breaks, will drop instant reaction. episodes too so you're always up to date with the latest chatter get in on the action and follow off the pike with me ryan barrett now on spotify welcome to the mismatch i'm chris vernon and joining me as he does every friday from the ringer dot combs is kevin o'connor a k, kevin obamaverner kovovovic kevin o'blerc kevin o'clockerick kevin o'clockerick oh candyland kevin o'blerian kevin o' verno how are you doing tonight man i'm great uh game not so good

for us to watch. We are recording this with about six minutes left in the fourth quarter of the Warriors and the Lakers. Once Tristan Thompson made an appearance, we said, let's start recording. Yeah, let's get going now. We might as well start. Why wait? Look.

As I've recording, he's two of three in six minutes. An unbelievable trend that continues tonight. for those that have not seen it. Home teams in game two after losing game one in a series since 2019. So that applied to the Celtics last evening. It applied to the Warriors tonight are now 21 and 1 and 20 and 2 against the spread. teams that are home teams that lose game one, the record that they have had in game two since 2019 is absolutely unbelievable.

Now, look, we know that in many series, there's always the zigzag, right? Like, you know, the team that loses is going to make the more profound adjustments, usually, because they're looking at that game tape and they say, you're not going to beat us this way, you're not going to beat us this way. You're not going to beat us this way. And then they've got to go out and they've got to execute that plan.

And there is no question that tonight the Warriors were able to execute their plan because as we start, they are up by 31 points. So this was a runout. Well, I mean, there was a stat that Kendra Andrews tweeted out tonight. She said before this game, the Warriors had not scored 40 points in a quarter this postseason. They scored 41 in the second, 43. in the third. So the Warriors, you know, middle of that game just really dominate the Lakers.

I mean, like you said, Chris, this is a trend in game two. It's not a big surprise that the Warriors have a bounce back game in game two. But, and it's also not a surprise the type of adjustments we saw Steve Kerr make. We saw, you know, the little bit of a surprise. You know, Kevin Looney doesn't start the game. Michael Green starts. You know, they say Looney's sick and that's why the decision was made. but it also did make sense based off of everything that happened in game one to add another shooter

and split up those loony green minutes. And Jemichael Green, he's a limited player, but the spacing he provided was effective in helping Steph Curry run more ball screens, which was the big adjustment. You know, Jeff Van Gunney mentioned it throughout the broadcast. You know, they're having Steph Curry run more ball screens early in the offense, getting the Lakers into rotation and looking at the numbers on second spectrum, just to give some context. He averaged around 25 over the full season per game.

And game seven against the Kings, he had 42 pick and rolls ran in 38 minutes. In game one, game one, he had 22 and 38 minutes. Game two, he had 24 pick and rolls in 30 minutes. So they ramped that up, more Steph Curry playmaking, more Steph Curry pick and rolls. And that made a big difference in their half court offense. I felt in addition to Jim Michael Green being out there. over Looney in the starting lineup. Well, and the massive difference,

and this is, this is something that we talked about during their series against the Grizzlies. And I was telling you that in game two of that series was they ended up getting the ball, like they had to find a way, much like this series, Davis,

unstoppable force of nature defensively in game one. And so you say, we have got to get this guy out of the, paint. Like, we don't have any chance. And so, the way to get him out of the paint and to put him in constant motion is to have a shooter be screened for by his man. And so in that case, you remember that was the Xavier Tillman game, where he's just slip, slip, slip, slip. And you saw it tonight, green, loony, guys slip into the basket. They had more points in the paint in the first half of this game than they had the entire game.

The entire game one. And that's because with that, what you were talking about, you know, the part of that step taking out, you don't have a choice. He has to come up if it's somebody that if you can set a good screen there, he's got to come up because it's not somebody that you just will allow to get an open look from three. And, you know, we're going to talk about that Sixers thing later. Same thing kind of goes with them, right? Like, I mean, it's not a big deal if Malcolm Brogden necessarily is taking threes,

but if you're just going to give him practice threes, I mean, he's shooting fish in a barrel. And so you're just constantly trying to pull and beat away, pull and beat away from the pain. Same thing goes with this. You're not going to be able to function with this guy in front of the rim. And it's one of the reasons, look, they ended up getting beat by 1,000 in their game 6. So no excuses. But it's one of the reasons that we talked about why Conard being out was. such a big deal just because you have to have somebody that he has to come out and guard.

And so I thought going small tonight was going to be their adjustment. And you saw them get away with in, and this is, this is Draymond Green being Draymond green. Physical defense on AD, you know, people, every time AD has a bad game, it's like, oh, he didn't bring it, he didn't bring it. Like some of that credit goes to the Warriors, too. Because they put Draymond on them. It was Looney in game one. Looney defended AD for 45 possessions in game one.

Draymond did for 27 possessions. And game two, Looney's down to 15 possessions. Draymond's up to 39 possessions. And I thought like Draymond got up to a bit. He's too quick for Looney. Yeah, he is too quick. And I thought Draymond gone off to a little bit of a like a slower start in the first quarter, but that second quarter, he just absolutely turning on.

and there was a play he, you know, you could tell he got himself into it. He clapped. He screamed after defending AD. Well, he turned it on and changed the game I felt for the Warriors. He just plays with such force, you know, really physical defense. And that's the thing kind of with AD is you got to be really physical with him. You're not going to be able to like with the Looney thing. Like I say, he's a little too quick for Looney.

And so is he going to use his size? to destroy you. And I think, you know, you take the matchup because Draymond's guarded all manner of guys over this time. And they could get away with it. And the other thing is this. You see. Part of it, though, Chris,

part of it is also like for AD, there's times he's sent in screens for DeLo and just not getting fed the ball. Well, for sure. And also the I thought they really put pressure on. And, you know, even off of makes, run, run, run, run. They're just going to keep on going, keep on going, keep on pushing that pace no matter what. Because look, the Lakers were in a tough spot because they went all in to win that game one. And it paid all.

But you look at their minute totals in game one. And, I mean, those are serious minute totals. That is tough. They went for it. They really went for it. I mean, those 44 minutes. I think, the Davis out there, like, that's just not sustainable. You're not going to get great 44-minute performances on two days' rest all that often.

And so they went all in. They got their split in Golden State. But I do think that they've got a little bit of an issue with this small thing with the Warriors, which, frankly, everybody's had an issue with for a decade. Of course. This is just a new version of that. It's really nothing new. And at this point, I think, you know, I'm a little surprised for the Lakers side of things.

You know, LeBron, that first quarter, he's hitting threes. He's hit and pull up twos. He looks more springy than he has really all playoffs. I felt only 18 shots. I wonder if that's him and the Lakers saving it a bit there with LeBron. But I would have, I would have thought maybe in a game where some other office. offensive presences, including DeLo, weren't really thriving that they could have leaned on LeBron Moore. Austin Reeves had a really rough game. He wasn't scoring the ball. Jeff Van Gundy on

the broadcast mentioned how he was front-rimming everything. He mentioned like a leg wrap that he had on. He wondered if there was a physical ailment for Reeves. I wonder if they could have gotten more out of LeBron. In terms of adjustments, you know, like how do you stop the small ball? I mean, nobody's had the answer. I wonder if maybe instead of having Vanderbilt on Steph, they go with more Vanderbilt on Draymond and keep Schroeder on Steph. And then in that case, you can switch that pick and roll rather than continue to do what you're doing, fighting through it, playing a more standard ball screen coverage. Because you've got to switch against that at some point during the series.

So maybe rather than have AD defend Draymond Green, you have Jared Vanderbilt defend Draymond Green. and then AD can go on, you know, Michael Green or somebody else off ball. But there's like, they're running out of non-shooters because Steve Kerr, Looney plays only 12 minutes tonight. Gary Payton doesn't play until garbage time. You know, Moody plays 20 plus minutes.

DeVincenzo plays 20 plus minutes. Pool gets minutes. It's all shooters for the most part, aside from Looney and Dremont in the rotation right now. It's always the trick with any of these teams that have one guy, guy that they really depend on for rim protection. You know, that's the trick. Can you get them away from the basket?

If you can get them away from the basket, now all of a sudden you've got, I mean, you saw how many open layups did you see when they got him away from the basket? I mean, they had 30 points in the paint in the first half. That's what I'm saying. Like, if you get AD on green, green's just in the corner for the far majority of the game.

Yeah. And in that case, maybe you can have AD do more of what he did. But you know what they'll do, Kev. Now they know. They'll have Michael Green set that screen. Well, exactly. Then they'll have Jamichael Green set the screen. Or in the first half, they had two or so possessions where Andrew Wiggins set the screen for

Stephen Curry. And they didn't do a lot of it. And they may not have to do a lot of it. But it's just something to keep in mind as the series moves forward, who the Warriors are using as the screener for Steph. Obviously, Steph Dremont is the main one, but there's other options in there for them. And you get him to do it very high. So now the offense starts high and it pulls him all the way out, you know, because then

it's then it, then it can be free reign. Didn't even need Steph to go off as a score today, you know? He, this was him as a point guard. Oh, so cool to watch. Just like like Chris Paul or something. Yeah, like click. It's like it was almost like, Steve. standard traditional positions tonight.

Steph is the point guard. He's your point general. And Clay Thompson is your classic shooting guard. Just draining threes. He had that three from the corner, the right corner where he didn't even dip the ball at all. He just caught the ball high like at his chin and went straight up with it. Amazing.

I mean, it was a great clay performance after a not so great game one for him, made up for it. Like seriously, when is the last time Steph Curry took 12 shots in a game? Well, I wonder. That's crazy. I wonder how many times in his career.

I should try. He's taking 12 shots. Yeah. How many times has he had as many assists or more assist than he has had shots? Yeah. It's like a, it's a Chris Paul line. Yeah. It really is.

You know, maybe not Chris Paul right now. Obviously not Chris Paul right now being heard, but from back of the day, just kind of running the show. And they did, they got those contributions from other. guys in this game. And the Clay thing, as you mentioned, man, when he turns back the clock and he gets going like he did tonight, I mean, this is like no dribble pull up in transition clay, just wet, man. And he's six career playoff games now where he has had eight or more threes in the game.

Six. that is the most in NBA history. I was kind of surprised when they said that. That is, I would have, wouldn't you have, I guess Curry would have been my guess, but honestly, if it's not Curry, I guess it's him. It's with like most of the three-point record. I was saying my son was watching the game with me, and he was like, how does he do that? It's like all one motion, and it's so quick.

Like when he's getting it off, he's like, it's shooting. He's like, it's perfect because they're doing like the, They're showing like a slow motion replay. And I'm like, dude, he might really be the second best shooter of all time. And he just happens to be next to the best. You know? Like if Steph Curry never exists, Clay Tobs is probably considered the best shooter we've ever seen. Because he has had some freakish ones.

And this was another in his playoff cap. As someone who favored the Lakers in this series, any level of. 127, 100 final. That's 27 point victory for the Warriors is the final. Any level of concern for your Lakers pick after seeing game two, or was this to be expected? No, I mean, I think at some point, you know, the Warriors are going to ramp it up with stuff pick and roll. They did that in game two. They can do it even more, as we saw in game seven against the Kings.

No, I mean, I think the series is going to go six or seven. And in fairness, Kev, they shot 49% from three tonight. ended up 50, 21 or 42. Okay. Ended up they made half. Hey, good luck. Yeah, I know. You're not being the Warriors if they shoot 50% from three, bro, ever.

Of course, no. You have no chance. I do think the Lakers, you know, in this game, too, you know, compared to game one where they had the rest advantage, they looked a bit sluggish coming around those screens, Reeves, Russell. You know, you expect that with LeBron. but Schroeder even looked a bit fatigued. I felt like they seemed like a bit more of a tired team.

And you know what played a part in that is there were a billion free throws in that first game and there were like none in the first half of this game. You got towards the end of the first half and it was like three. And so it's just constant motion and running and there's no rest for the weary. So like if you were already like, There's a lot of time spent on the free throw line in that first game. And you're just kind of, you know, stand around, able to catch your breath, whatever, and especially guys that played really big minutes.

But there was no like real breaking the action in that in that first half at all. You're just running wind sprints up and down the court because they were running off of every miss and every make. and I would be remiss without if I didn't mention that, as I was saying, Clay Thompson might be the best shooter if Steph Curry never existed. I forgot about Rui Hachamura. This is not stopped, Kevin. Rui Hachamura is a 35% three-point shooter for his career in not a particularly small sample, which would apply to his career. And so far in these playoffs, he is shooting, I believe, over 60% now on over 40 attempts. He's made every frigging three these days.

It's crazy. And he's the only bench guy that was worth a crap for them tonight. And this is weird. Besides Tristan Thompson and garbage time, maybe. Give me a break. Yeah, Tristan. Oh, forgive me. I forgot about.

I mean, he might be better than winning and Gabriel. He might be. The one that came off the bench and got some buckets was Lonnie. Where's he been? Well, I mean, that's been a witness protection all playoffs. That's what I mean with some of the fresh legs. I just, I wonder if Darwin Ham at some point will lean on Alani Walker who was barely played in weeks.

Yeah. For a reason. Like, he hasn't played for a reason. Right. He hasn't been that good. Well, I just wonder if he'll throw out some other, you know, surprises. Look, we only have two games.

I mean, two days before the next one. And so this is one thing. One thing about getting your ass kicked is AD and LeBron did not play the fourth quarter at all. So their minutes ended up being 32 and 28. And so that was probably, you know, look, if you're going to get beat anyway, at least you got those guys some rest to get them ready for game three. Do you think this is as simple as I'm going to be able to look at Anthony Davis's box score and tell you whether or not the Lakers were successful

that night? Yeah, I think it's that simple. I think so, too. I do, I do. Doesn't it? A.D. is going to be the guy who defines this series. You know, Dremont did a hell of a job against him tonight, making things tough on him. And 80s always had some trouble against guys like that evening.

It's PJ Tucker in the past. Those guys who can get physical and get underneath them and use their lower center of gravity is leverage against him. He's had a hard time against those types. But if you're Anthony Davis, dude, you've got to figure it out. And even if you aren't scoring the same way, you've got to make up forward in other ways. You get 23 rebounds in game one and then you're down to seven in game two. You've got to be better than that.

It's only the one in the Memphis series, game five. He did have 31 and 19, and they won that game. But in two of the others, you know, game two, same deal. I mean, he had 22 and 12 and was just dominant. He ended up seven blocks and probably more than that in game one of the Memphis series. And then he came back in game two, just like this one, four for 14, 13 points, nine rebounds. It's crazy.

The guy is like, and obviously, look, he's been the best player on the Lakers in their wins. and so what you're doing is you're looking at, you know, of course, teams are trying to figure out how do we solve this? But there's just, I mean, he went for 22 and then 13, and then 31 and 17, and then 12, and then 31 and 19, and then in the final game, 16 and 14, which they didn't even need it. I mean, he could have had 50 and 50 if you wanted to. They won the game by 40 points. They didn't need it. I mean, he was dominant in that game, for sure. But it has been in every other.

And so I think the trick is, do they get four awesome Anthony Davis games? Because that's what they need to get. They don't need to get seven. They need to get four. Yeah, isn't that what they need? I mean, isn't it that simple? Four great AD games. They didn't get him engaged in this one early.

The thing is, though, if you get four, you might, you say you need, you only need four. That's not true because you might get four great 80 games, but then you get like a all-time stuff game on the other side. So you might need five great 80 games or six great 80 games. That is possible. You don't need seven, right? Because it's impossible to get seven. You just got a stintry. But you might need six, depending on how things go on the other side and depending on how LeBron performs. LeBron, like I said, if you're a Lakers, that's one thing to be encouraged about. LeBron looked great tonight with little rest.

It's going to be little rest throughout the entire series. He looked great. He found his shot after shooting 18% throughout the postseason, shooting under 30% from three ever since late November, early December. He looked better shooting the ball. So that's at least encouraging there. But it's just one night. And we'll see if it's a stance.

And look, they stole home court advantage. And we're going to just know so much more after we get to go watch those games in L. in the end. Yep. Big adjustments to come, I'm sure. Yeah, and in the end, this was to be expected. As I said, this just followed suit with every other situation like this. Not just the Warriors in this situation, every situation like this.

Since 2019, those teams now, as I said when we started talking about this, after the Celtics did it last night and now the Warriors tonight, it's 21 and 1. And they're inflating the lines because of this, you would think, because I think the Warriors were like maybe seven or eight point favorites tonight. And the teams are 20 and two against the spread in those situations too. So I mean, 21 and 1, if the Warriors didn't rebound, it would have been more shocking than this outcome tonight, I think. For sure.

I'm with you. That's for sure. It makes me so excited to watch Game. three though. Oh, I know. It's the way this played that. Yeah, it'll be great. We got a lot of news to talk about and we've got to talk about all these other series. We'll do it after these words.

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We do need to talk about the big news of the day, which was Mike Budenhouser being let go by the Milwaukee Bucks. Mike Budenhouser won a ton of games in Milwaukee. 56 is first year, 46 is second year, 51 is third year, and then this season, of course, the 58 win season. Interestingly enough, the season in which he won the least amount of the season, of games is the one that they won the title in. That was his 46 win year. Figure that out. But in Milwaukee for the last five years, of course, he's got a championship to show for it, but they have decided to move on. I know you were rather critical of a lot of the coaching decisions that took place down the stretch in that series. I know there are some that have opined

that maybe Milwaukee needs a new voice anyway. But, But here we are. It was, we're about a week removed from them losing to the Miami heat. And usually when something like that takes place, which is an eight seed defeating a one seed, usually someone has to pay for these transgressions. And it's a lot easier to lose a coach than lose a roster. And so Mike Budenhouser is on the waiver wire. What do you think?

I think it's the right decision for the Bucks to do this. I mean, Bud is, you know, he's a solid coach. He's a good coach. He knows how to build a system. We, you know, we saw this in Atlanta with the offensive systems that he built there, maximizing those Hawks teams that just ran to LeBron, you know, and some tough opponents in the playoffs each year. The Bucks, you know, he immediately addresses some of the issues that were a parent under Jason kid, a lack of spacing.

Obviously, Brooke Lopez helps there with everything they provided, but he installed. the system. He, you know, the year they won the title all year long, they built up a switching scheme to have more versatility on defense. He knows how to build a system, but whether it's with Atlanta or with Milwaukee, and particularly this year, Bud's weakness as a coach is his inability to make adjustments on it on the fly game to game within games. And we talked about it all throughout that series, whether it was game one when Janus got hurt, Brooke Lopez not getting interior touches throughout the series how they defended Jimmy Butler. And as soon as Janus and that post game interview talked about Boone Holeser saying we could have made more adjustments. Maybe we should

have switched the matchup on Jimmy Butler to give Drew Holiday arrest. Maybe we could have done this. Maybe we could have done that. That's where it felt like, but at that point, despite all his positive qualities as a coach, it was apparent that he lost Janus. And clearly, he is not the right coach anymore for this roster. They need somebody who can be more of a micromanager, somebody who can make those changes over the course of a series which Janus and the bucks need. Well, I make no mistake. It would be very, very difficult to imagine a scenario where Janus was not asked about this. Oh, of course he was. Right. I mean, and what do you make of the fact that Steve Kerr is the only remaining coach of the last four?

that have won the title. You know, now we have Nick. Nick Nurse is gone and Frank Vogel is gone. And Mike Budenhouser is gone. And only Kerr remains. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe I read something even more unbelievable than that, which was that since 2015, he is the only one that still remains. Oh, that's been hired.

Oh, that's amazing. I think Kerr is the only one. No, no, no, of the champions. I'm saying of the champions, I believe he is the only one that remains. Obviously, look, Popovich is going to be the longest tenured guy forever. But once the Golden State won, so they won 15 and 16 and 17. No, no, no, no.

I'm sorry. 16 is when they lost to the Cavs. And then they won 17 and 18. Yeah, Tileu is gone from Cleveland. He's in L.A. now. is gone for Toronto and who knows, maybe, you know, he'll end up being the guy from Milwaukee. And of course, you know,

Scur is the only one remaining Vogel's gone as well. So yeah, that's correct. So I guess of even the finals opponents, Spolster is the only one. Yeah. Because Udoca's gone. Yeah. Yep.

Spolster's the only one. Monty Williams. Monty Williams is the other. So he's around still for now. Probably not going to be, right? Yeah, maybe. I mean, we'll see. New owner.

new owner who, by the way, Ishbia, like not the sidetrack from Bootin'Holes or Bucks talk here, but it should be a interesting conversation with Bill Simmons on his pod this week. I thought very impressive. Me too. I think if I was a Suns fan,

I would be like super excited. How come like? What did you like about what he said? What did you like about it? Look, they could have hired, Bozo the Clown could own the sons and I'd be more excited than having Robert Sarver as my owner. But this guy seemed to be very, I thought he had a very clear vision.

I thought that he was very convincing in talking about not only the KD trade, but also going forward. I thought the Dan Gilbert stuff was hilarious. Oh, that was great. I love the transparency. The fact that he didn't just like tiptoe around it. Oh, I know. It was so, I love the transparency there. I don't like that guy, you know, and I don't like the way he does business.

And, oh, it's great. I actually, I came away liking the guy. I like him. I like him, too. I think he would be the kind of guy that would be fun to hang out with. Yeah, I like, I like, I listen to some of his, you know, interviews and talks and all that when he was first name, the owner. I was like, you know, impressive guy. And that interview, you know, that was like more of like a regular conversation, like he said, you know.

And, yeah, I was very impressed. I liked him a lot. So do you think it's just impossible to. be a great coach in the NBA now is the question. I don't know. I know. I don't think it's impossible. No.

What do you mean by that? Like, what's, what's, what's, what's inspiring that question? I'm curious. The fact that only Steve Kerr and Eric Spolstra remain from finals participants since 2015. Is it impossible to be a great coach or impossible to hold a job? Like, what do you mean? That's what I mean. Like, are there any of those that you think are.

great coaches. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a right coach in a right time. Like, I think for Pop, he's a great coach. He's been around forever. Spoh. We're setting those aside. He's a great coach. We're setting those aside. We're setting aside Spolstra and Popovich and Kurt. I mean, I guess I look at it a little different. Like, you can be a great coach, but the team might need a change. And like the circumstances are what they are a lot of the time. Yeah, I, I think like with Will Hardy, he could be with Utah. for 20 years, he might be there only seven years. I don't know what the future brings with that roster and their situation and how the locker

room player coach dynamic is, but maybe that's speak. But there's always been coaching turnover throughout NBA history. There's only so few Jerry Sloans. It's not like we had a ton of those in the past. There's always coaching turnover. Yeah. Well, I mean, and look, you look no further than last two coaches of the year. We just talked about it, Monty Williams.

If they lose in this round, it's certainly. a possibility that he might, the Phoenix could come available. It's possible though. And then this year, Mike Brown, who didn't have a head coaching job for the last decade. You know what I mean?

Like, or not, I guess, well, almost. Almost a decade. Like, it was pretty close. And then a guy comes back and he wins coaches the year for Sacramento. Yep. And it's like that, you know, turn, I don't know.

I just, you know, I don't know if we're ever going to have the, I, it feels like, We'll never have like another Popovich. I don't know. Unless it's like another spolstra. Another spolstra, right? Maybe that was, right?

Where you could be. But maybe we do. But we don't know until we have that. It could be Hardy. It could be Mike Brown. Like it could be, could be a lot of those guys. We just don't know until they become that.

Could be Mark Dagnall with the thunder. You never know. Yeah, but you haven't even had guys make it like. They don't. I mean, we're, we're talking about them. Are you saying that you think these coaches deserve a long release? I'm talking about the last four champions. I know, I know, but I'm saying you think.

Literally the guy that won the championship. I know, but I'm saying, do you think coaches deserve a long release? Like, would you have fired Boodenholzer? Like, do you think? I think that it is, this is where I'll stand on this. If Janus wants a new coach, that's what you do. Okay, but that's what I'm saying. Like, that's where the player coach plays.

player for an office, the player power dynamic is in the league today. Right. And there's only three that have a bigger, that they run their show. They run their show. There's three. And that's what I don't know will ever exist again. I don't know if you'll ever be the most powerful guy in that locker room. I don't know if that will ever happen again.

With pops, Bo. I mean, these guys are going to make $60 million a year. But it is, you know what I mean? Is Kerr, does he even fit that? Like, you say, most powerful. I mean, he gets to do what he wants to do. And that may change. Look, you know, if his, if Bob Myers is no longer there.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that may change also, right? But, I mean, he also, I don't think, I don't think that you could go to Steve Kerr and say, hey, we need to be playing this guy more. I think Steve Kerr gets to run his.

and I think that if players have a problem with Steve Kerr, it is more likely that ownership and the powers that be will back Steve Kurt. That's where I'm talking about, right? Yeah. That if it comes down to player versus coach, even the heat stood up for Eric Spolstra against LeBron James. Probably cost him LeBron James, if we're being honest, but they stood up for Eric Spolstra against LeBron James.

Like, that's what they thought of him. Like, no, man, this is your coach. This is the guy that's going to coach you. And he's still there today. Yeah, and he's still there today, right? And he's one of the best coaches by far in basketball. He just, you know, totally out-coached Mike Booden-Hulzer on that first round. And very well, we'll see what he does against Tibbs in the series against the Knicks.

So that's what I'll say. I'll say if Janus, if the voice has gotten stale and they think they need a new voice in the locker room, a new direction. and Janice is on board with that too, then by all means, yes, that's what you have to do. I will also tell you, I think it is much harder to do better than, I think they're in a situation where it's not going to be easy to get a better coach.

That's what I'd say. I think Booneaucer falls into that category where it's like he might not be the best, but he's also, better than a ton of them. Yeah, I mean, booed. It's not some trash. It's easier to downgrade.

It's easier to downgrade than to upgrade, is what I'm trying to say. Yeah, but is not some trash coach. He's not. He's a very good coach. Like we said at the top, he knows how to build a system. What they need is somebody

who can make changes on the fly. Nick Nurse, he's the guy who's still available right now. To me, whether it's Nick Nurse, he's the big name or somebody like a Nick Nurse. That's what the Bucks should be targeting right now

for this roster to maximize the coming years with Yannis. What do you think Raptors fans think a Nick Nurse right now, though? You know? I mean, I think a lot of Raptors fans, they still like Nick Nurse. He just wasn't the right coach anymore.

He lost his voice with that team. The time had passed. Now it was about who's the guy who's going to build up this young roster and develop them rather than be the guy who's going to be, you know, the guy in postseason series

about making adjustments. Yeah. I think that was part of it with Nick Nurse. It's going to be very interesting. And that's all I'll leave it at. I think it is harder to... One last thing on that note.

Like you could argue that Boon-Hulzer would be great now for the Raptors and Nurse would be great now for the Bucks. Yeah, you could argue... You could make that argument. Hmm. But I, for some reason, like the Raptors, they tend to go with,

like with Nurse, they tend to go with kind of the under-the-radar type of guy. So we'll see there. Yeah, who knows what the bucks are thinking right now, right? Like, who knows? And look, we do need to mention this because I do think it's fair. And the story came out in the middle of all of the, you know, there were games going on. There was about to be a game six between Memphis and L.A.

There was about to be a game seven between the Warriors and the Kings. and Darvin Ham in his pregame talk with the media after the bucks had lost, let everybody know what had been going on with Mike Boudinthuser in his personal life. And just an extreme tragedy that was very, very hard. They said before game four of that series, evidently one of his brothers died in a car accident, which is something, it's just an absolutely horrible tragedy. And so if his mind,

wasn't completely on basketball, that is completely understandable, given the circumstances. It's just the absolute worst. And you'd never, and I hate that for him. And I hope he's doing okay because I know that that losing somebody, not that was like a brother, his actual brother in the middle of the series, had to have just been absolutely awful. And so that is not to that that is not to absolve him from, you know, the job that he did. In the end, he's still coaching a basketball team, right? And we are here to analyze what you do as the basketball coach.

All I will say is it is rather understandable if his focus was not 100% on trying to win said matchup or maybe even in some of the situations within the game. Because I can't imagine going through that while trying to do. your job because it means a lot to you because you're in the playoffs, right? And so certainly during the regular season, you would take a tremendous amount of time off. And I think it'll be a very short amount of time until we see Mike Boone-N-Hawler on the sidelines again and probably winning a ton of games for somebody. That's what I guess. I'm with you.

You know, sending condolences to the entire Bootin-Holes or family for sure. It's a tragedy, tragedy what happened. And you do hope he gets another opportunity for a team that allows them to build it up again. like he did with Atlanta and like he did with Milwaukee because he's still a very good coach. It'll be very interesting to see what a new voice, new direction, new philosophy,

you know, what that means for Janus, what that means for, you know, the personnel that they bring back is they're going to have decisions to make on both Middleton and Brooke Lopez, kind of direction of team

and also philosophy of how they play. You know, we've just been so used to this where they play, you know, a deep rotation. They don't play an extreme amount of minutes throughout the season. And obviously, Janice has had some of the best years in NBA history. And Boonezer gets some credit for that, you know? It's one thing to be given a great player. It's another thing. It's hard to say that he didn't maximize his best player because that guy scored 50 points in a game six.

You know. And so anyways, huge story to say the least when the team that had the number one seed not only loses, but also that their coach is now on the wayside. Let's get to the other series. Let's start with the West. And the other one is Phoenix and Denver, a series that we have not talked about yet by the time now that we are speaking about it. A lot has changed because it is already. 2-0 Denver and Chris Paul is probably not going to be available. I would think certainly not effective, even if available, for this series.

And to me, that makes it virtually impossible for them to win four out of five games against that Denver team, Kev. What do you think? So you think with Chris Paul being out, why is that? I'm just curious to understand the reasoning with CP3. Because their bench sucks. And you do have to have somebody playmaking, right? They've got two guys.

And even a whatever percent of Chris Paul that you want to say they're getting, like he still sets the table. He still runs a show. He still has a big voice within those huddles and in that locker room. And he's also still a guy that can drive in and kick. You know, I mean, he is that guy. Or shoot from 16 feet. Or, you know, just having him out there with the other two, I think they're already playing roster roulette in terms of they can't figure out who they want to use.

Monty can't figure out who his guy. They don't, if you say who's his guys, he's got four that you count on, probably five if you want to throw in Tori Craig. And then once you get past that, spin the wheel because they never settle. on it. They haven't settled on it. And so I think if you, if you got those and you're, and that's what you're comfortable with, losing any of them is a killer. I think probably the the one that you could survive maybe more than the others is Aiton, just because you throw Bionbo out there and he'll just, you know, he's just sitting screens for people anyway, blocking some shots at the ring. I mean, I agree, Chris. I mean, I think with Chris Paul,

granted he's limited. I mean, he's not the same guy right. now. Still, the ball handling, the playmaking presence that he provides is critical. So at this point now, you know, Chris Paul running pick and roll with Booker and Katie flanking him, you know, to elite scores spacing the floor as catch and shoot guys as cutters, as movers without the ball, as guys who off a secondary action can attack an unbalanced defense with CP3 being the guy creating those opportunities. Now you're in a situation where, like we saw at the end of game two,

Denver, that high pick and roll, they're running with KD or Devin Booker, the Nuggets are oftentimes switching that. They're having, you know, Aaron Gordon switch from Aiton onto KD. Or even if Yokic gets switched out there,

they're having the guy like there was a play in the fourth quarter where Booker had, well, Yokic was defending a Kogi. And they had a Kogi come in and set a screen for Devin Booker. And then that meant Yokic was switched on to Booker. But then Booker's original defender, Katavius Caldwell Pope, came back and kind of trapped

Booker. And as they did that, KCP just went back on a Booker and Yokch scampered back to a Kogi into the paint. So it's like they have these like little schemes they're using throughout the game at different moments that have just completely destroyed the Sun's half court offense. and now if you just have Booker and KD, you have two heads of this thing instead of three. That's going to limit even more

what the Phoenix Suns can do. And I feel very little confidence on their ability to win the series against Denver, who just looks like the better, more grizzled, more experienced, better chemistry, more talented team, deeper, all of the above. It looks like a team versus a team

with two awesome players. You know? Yeah, it really does. And they have to be so awesome. And Durant was not. But even if they are both awesome, even if they both like have 35 points, and sometimes that might not be enough.

Well, it might have been, but he was 10 for 27. That's the thing. He can't not, one of them can't have an off night. Aaron Gordon was amazing in that game. Aaron Gordon has been absolutely magnificent

on the defensive end of the floor. Unbelievable. He really has. Yeah. He really has. And he's been a good fit next to, He's been a good fit next to Yokic for sure. You know, and here's the other thing, Kev.

Last series, you know, there were some big Torrey Craig moments, and he was making them pay for not guarding him. And now you get to this one. And like you said, Akogi's in there, right? So he starts Akogi. Tori Craig's playing 11 minutes. You look at their bench. Damian Lee, 25 minutes, 0 for 5.

0 for 3 from 3. Campaign, 16 minutes. one for seven, O for four from three. Torrey Craig, 11 minutes, O for two, O for two from three.

Bismack, Biombo, nine minutes, one for two. And then Jock Landell and Ishwayne Wright played five and two minutes respectively,

and they had zero shot attempts. So from your bench, you had, let me do the quick math here, you had 16 shots, you were two for 16 for four points. Awful. Campaign has got to be better. I mean, what is that. Campaign, like, he, what a stinker from him in game two with, like, his, his first, you know, big return to big minutes. You know,

he hadn't played much. He's been out. He's been sideline. So one out of seven. That's like, Chris Paul at this point. He, he's really the X factor here more than anybody else. It's got to be him. But also, I don't, I don't understand, you know, you make these acquisitions. You got Terrence Ross, who's a good shooter, a weapon off screens and, you know, and all that. You get T.J. Warren, who can be a bucket getter. They can really, like, Monty, you really can't find a role for some of these guys. I just don't, like, what are you going? No, you're right.

And it's always a defense thing. It always is because I don't know. Yeah, but where, where the hell is Katie at the five? Why are we playing Bismack Bealbo off the bench? Space the floor. The nuggets go small without Yokich out there for seven, eight minutes a game. They're going small. I would love to see some Durant at the five in the series.

Like, what are you still going with Beyondbo for? I really don't understand it. Hey, look, there is literally nothing personnel-wise that you can bring up that I will say is goofy. Because even if you just add in a Kogi, right? I just listed, they were two for 16. Let's add in a Kogi. Okay, now they're three for 19 because he was one for three for two points. It's like there's no

And so last series I recall there was a game We're watching where In the Clipper series And Terrence Ross came in And like screwed up like two defensive assignments And in like four minutes And then he's gone forever

Like it's like And I always tell you These coaches They don't care if you miss a thousand shots But man you miss a defensive assignment They will never forgive your ass You know what I mean If you're if you're not in the right

plays if you cost them points on the defensive end. It's a real. It costs, it costs coaches games by playing inferior players that always know where to be and don't gamble on stuff and whatever. And so I just thought it was funny. I mean, like literally he put Terrance Ross in and then he took him out and I don't think we ever have seen him again because he screwed up two things in like four minutes.

Just just one thought that comes to mind as you were talking, Chris, about, you know, he said like nothing would be goofy. when it comes to lineups and all that. Tell me what you think about this. You know, like you got, I mentioned the play where Yokic, you know, switches and then they're doing all this switching. Pretty much, they're just not defending a Kogi.

They're not defending these non-shooters. They're clogging the paint. And they're saying, Katie, book, you guys are going to beat us with the mid-range of the three? Yep. Right? Or are you going to pass out to this guy who can't shoot? Do the sons, do they need to have eight behind the arc in some of these

situations. He is a 29% shooter from three this year, 37% last year on only 43 total attempts. He does not shoot often. He's an average mid-range shooter on very limited attempts. No. But

do they need to do something like that in order to pull that rim protector, whether it's Yokic, whoever it is, away from the paint? Do they have to at least try something? But it's not.

with Aiton. Your answer would be what you were talking about earlier, which just goes super small. I know, but you can't do that for 48 minutes because then Yokic is just pounding your ass on offense. I'm aware. You cannot, you can't do it. You got to, Aiton has to play at least 25, 30 minutes. I promise you this.

If DeAndre Aiton wants to stand out the three point line, he is not going to be guarded and they're going to say shoot it. Okay. But like they're doing that anyway with A Kogi. They're doing that with anybody. I mean, at some point, one of those guys has got to get. Catch fire. But they're like,

sometimes they're not even defending him when he's at the dunker spot, like near the basket. I mean, that's what you're finding in these. It's, it's been commonplace in these playoffs. You know,

anytime that you don't have, you can go five wide and have, they will, we talk about this. Individual players have their weaknesses exposed and teams have their weaknesses exposed when it comes to the playoffs. And you have to have guys

that are, guarded all the way out. You really do. You know, we just saw it with the Celtics. You know, like we could say, you know, you want to get Embed out of the basket, right? Let's just pivot to that series. Like, I don't know what you do there if Al Harford and Grant Williams and these guys can, like, are a real threat that can knock down these shots.

Joel Embed is not guarding these guys at the three point line. So it's like he has to be. be amazing on offense to make up for it. Because they're going to shoot 50 frigging threes. They're just going to. And they're going to say, all right, like, you're going to have to guard somebody out here. But you don't get to guard somebody in the paint. So if you want to be back in the paint, good luck.

And it's kind of crazy that the five-wide thing with Hardin running the show in that first game ended up working out pretty well for Philadelphia. And you're in a pickle here because this guy just won MVP. This guy just averaged 33 points a game. It's not like you can't set him down. It did. It did work. But that's a testament to the adjustments that I thought the Celtics made.

Like they put Jalen Brown primarily on James Harden throughout the game. He's playing amazing, you know, tough defense, forcing him to go right. They're helping harder off of PJ Tucker. Tucker, he doesn't shoot that often at all. you know he's in the corner in game one he doesn't take a single shot and but they're still kind of not helping all the way off him in game two he shoots one three pointer when they're all the way like underneath the basket like the guy defending tucker is underneath the rim anytime hard and had the ball they just weren't defending p j tucker and so i think for boston the adjustments that they made like you're right like sometimes with imbid that can clog things as well more so than playing spaced out like they did but it's not like paul reed you know, like he's some amazing floor spacer in the, in the 30 plus minutes that he played next to Hardin. I thought it was more so about what the Celtics did defensively against Hardin

then the return of Embed personally. Well, and I'm talking about it on the defense event. I'm talking about how this is how you're getting stopped. But you were, I know, but you're just said you, but you just mentioned the last thing you said was about this five out for Hardin. That's what I'm commenting on. Yeah, well, I mean, they're going, A, they were getting stops. And B, it's Harden, Versa,

I mean, that was just Hardin-centric and four guys spreading out. They weren't running two guys at James Harden. Context matters, though. Like, that was hard on off nine, eight, eight, nine days rest. And now he's off two days, one day rest. No, but the point is the adjustments. The point is the adjustments. That's my point.

Celtics made a ton of adjustments. But it was a totally different team they played against. It was, but they also changed what they did defensively, dramatically changed. Well, yeah. Yeah, but I mean, they're playing. And Hardin also just sucked. Houston Hardin in that first game where it was just like, you know, four guys standing around the perimeter and James Hardin.

Hardin struggled because Joe Al-Land Bid came back. Hardin struggled because of the Celtics defense. I don't believe that. I don't believe that. I don't believe that. I think that they talk about O TNT. So you think Hardin's better with Paul Reed than Joel Embed? I think that when James Hardin is at his best is when he gets to control everything

and do everything. I think when he is the guy and everybody else plays off of him rather than him being the second guy. Yes, I believe you get the best James Harden. Can you win at the highest level at this point like that? Probably not. Probably not. But I also think that's the ying and yang of this. I think that's when you get the best James Hardin. I mean, this guy was, I mean, he was otherworldly in that game in that first game. And again, if Embedd is not going to be just mega dominant, I mean, did M. Bede have much better production than said Paul Reed? No, Paul Reed was great.

I mean, I think I might have just set Joel Embed until Friday. That's what I, or I mean, until their next game. That's what I would have done in retrospect. I don't think, I think Joe L. Embed has to be absolutely dominant. in order for them to have a chance in this, and he was in no shape to be dominant in that game. But there's no choice to be made. I mean, if he wants to play, if he's able to play, then he play him.

But that was clearly not the Joelle Abed that we have been used to see. That's not the Joe L.A.B. that won the MVP, the version we saw of him last night. You know what I mean? And no discredit to Missoula. They changed up, and they were, look, Philly's probably losing that game no matter what. I'm sure you've seen the stat. home teams that lose game one, just don't lose game twos, traditionally. Now, and we'll know if that, you know, as you listen to the first part of this podcast that we're going to do after the game tonight,

you'll know if that holds true again because that streak going into this Warriors Lakers game is at like 16. I think it's 16 straight that if you lose at home. And so, I don't know, now that you saw game two, what's your opinion of the Boston, Philly? thing and how that plays out. I mean, it's going to depend on Joe Al-M-Beed. It's going to depend on Embedd. What response does Philadelphia have to those smart adjustments that the Celtics made as they return now to Philadelphia?

Will they continue to, you know, not use PJ Tucker as a corner three-point shooter? Or will they force Boston to defend Tucker out there? will George's Nying who passed on some shots you know end up launching that those are going to be the questions you know will they I mean Tucker Tucker is a low volume shooter but he shot 39% from 3 this year 41.5% last year 39.4% the year before that with Milwaukee when they won a title like it's not like he's some slouch behind the arc

he just doesn't shoot a lot so I wonder will will hard and end up finding Tucker in the corner for those shots. What do you end up doing about the Embed thing? Because look, if he's not going to come out there, it's just going to be practice shots for these guys. Was it Brogden hit like six

last night? I mean, they got a nothing Tatum game. And, I mean, I don't know what the solution is because that's not solving itself. And being in five blocks at the basket, you know, he still made some great defensive plays. But these guys are getting to take practice.

he's not, if they're going to play five wide, you know, this is how they did in Milwaukee last year because they got the Grant Williams three game. I mean, this speaks to the limitations of drop defense. Yes. It just does. What are you going to do? Whether he has to go

all the way out there. Or Malcolm Brogden is not some guy. He's not Steph Curry. But if he's open, shit, you know what I mean, if nobody's going to go out there, you know, this is these are the perils. And this is what Boston can bring to the table versus anyone.

And it's so common right now to have that, quote, rim protection. And it's like you constantly see people talking about you need to get that guy away from the basket. They need to pull him away from the basket. Like Boston actually has the goods to pull a guy away from the basket. And if you don't, fine. We'll shoot 53s. And a lot of those are going to be open because you've got four guarding five. And that's our advantage.

And we got enough guys that could shoot it. And so I don't know, man. I don't know how that gets solved. And that's why I say that one's a really, really hard one. Because you're never in a million years, not going to play Joe L&B. Of course. I mean, but if he's hurt, he's hurt. And he's definitely limited.

So we'll see Friday night how he ends up looking back in Philadelphia. Those are going to be, that's going to be a great game. I'm looking forward to that one. Nicks and Heat, you know, Heat or without Jim. me Butler, Knicks, of course, were without Randall in game one. And we can't say it didn't matter because he ended up having 25 and 12 or whatever it was in game two. I saw where Brunson is the first player since I believe it was 03.

I think it was, no, 13, maybe it's 2013, to have 30 points in a home playoff game at MSG. So that was cool to see. Obviously, it was since Carmelho Anthony. It was. It was May 17. 2013, the Eastern semis against the Pacers. Carmelo Anthony had done it, had over a 30-point game.

But Jalen Brunson, first Knicks player to have a 30-point playoff game. And man, down the stretch when he's hunting Duncan Robinson, how many times it, how many times out of 100 do you think Jailen Brunson could score on Duncan Robinson? Poor Duncan. He's like, I didn't even play it all season. Now you got me out of trying to guard Jailen Brunson on a switch. This is bullshit. Maybe you should have put me in a couple times throughout the year.

But I got to tell you, considering that was a must win for the Knicks, I thought the heat, man, I walked out of that game being like, geez, did they hold up? They got the 74 points out of undrafted players, and I saw it as the most ever since the modern draft era. So that's 1966. 74 points from guys that were not selected in the draft. You spend your whole spring putting together draft stuff and mock drafts and whatever else.

And it's like it's unfathomable to think that you could find this many players that can contribute that aren't one of the 60 guys that get drafted in these drafts. But here they are. And they've got a system that weren't. and I don't know, man. They'll get Jimmy back. It sounds like they're getting Jimmy back for the next one. It does seem optimistic there.

Spodan didn't say anything, but Kevin Love made a comment about getting treatment around the clock. He's not, you know, lumbering around. He looks okay. Yeah. And so, I don't know.

Did your opinion change anything about the way you saw that series playing out after we watched Game 2? No, no, not really. I mean, no Jimmy Butler. It's hard to really put too much into it.

you know, Julius Randall being back, that that was a big time difference maker I felt like in the series. We talked about it or at some point, you know, was mentioned how the lack of creation next to Bronson was such a big factor in game one, especially at the last five minutes. Julius Randall in that game, too, I thought some of the creation, the kickout pass and he made the Josh Hart, four, three, among so many other plays, his importance as a creator was apparent in that game. So assuming Jimmy Butler comes back in game three, that's what I'm going to be very interested about.

Because like Randall, like Butler could even provide another type of, you know, defender against him, even though Butler is much smaller than Randall. Like you got Randall like a minute left in the game just backing down Gabe Vincent on a switch. He like they, he needs some more size. That's where you saw how huge of a difference it made to have him back because all of a sudden now that that rebad, they out rebounded them 50 to 34. Oh, yeah. In that game. And it's the one thing that we talked about.

Like, when is their lack of size going to show up? And then they beat the bucks. And then, yeah, and then they did a great job like Mitchell Robinson didn't do anything in the first game. And it's like, is somebody going to punish them for being little? And sure enough, Julius Randall. And you know who the other one was? Hart. Hartenstein.

Yeah. Oh, I was saying. Both of them. Yeah. Oh, I was saying Hartinstein. I mean, he gave them big minutes, man. That second half stretched by him, I think, and third quarter, beginning fourth quarter. Like, oh, my God.

He was unbelievable. It just felt like he was grabbing every rebound. Yeah. Fantastic. You know, I mean? On the offensive boards, he was sensational. Yeah. And so they've, that's somebody that punished them for being small finally, right?

And won that rebounding. I wonder how much of that was an emphasis, like, you know, between coaches and players, conversations like, hey, crash the boards. Stop getting. Yeah. Stop letting this happen. Yeah, because it felt like it was, especially in those heart and steam minutes. Yeah.

I mean, who are you, who are you losing these rebounds to? look at their front court, bro. They got one dude back there. The reason they're rebounding is because they're doing it as a team. And they're crashing. And they're more physical. And you know, Tibbs had that conversation with those guys. I don't know.

Still, still too little much of an even match without Jimmy. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's the only thing. And I know that, you know, I put that up. And then some Knicks fans were like, yeah, well, why don't you mention the Randall wasn't there for game one. Like, I get it.

And Randall was great. But this guy is like... Who are you imitating? This guy is like Michael Jordan in the playoffs. You got just average 38 against the bucks. He got Mike Boodnows are fired for God's sakes. He averaged 38. Like, I like Julius Randall too.

These things are not the same. Jimmy Butler is like... Like who? Like maybe like him? Anthony Davis and maybe like Steph Curry are probably going like top three in a playoff draft right now.

You know what I mean? You're trying to figure out like, all right, who do you want of these guys? And oh, no disrespect to Yokic. Obviously Yolk, he goes in there. Interestingly enough, the MVP probably does not get taken right now given his status.

But I was very happy for him. And I did love their little, didn't it feel like selection Sunday when they, when they showed them all watching. Yeah. It felt like a college team watching Selection Sunday. It's pretty cool.

Yeah, it was a sweet moment. It's an amazing journey for Joanne Lebed, man. It is where he came from, his background, you know, coming to college and playing at Kansas and starting out that year so raw, but you could see the talent and how much better he got over the course of that season and missing his first two years in the NBA with all the injuries and continuing to get hurt throughout his career, as he said, you know, dealing with burner accounts, Ben Simmons and everything else that's transpired over the years, bust draft picks, everything that's happened with the Sixers over the years. And yet, he continued to get

better year in, year out to become one of the most dominant forces in all of the league and an MVP. He did indeed speak into existence in 2014 when he said he will someday be the MVP. And he is. It's awesome. It really is. Let me tell you a crazy story, which I will not be able to tell as well as my buddy Gary Parrish, who I work with in Memphis, who is a columnist for CBS Sports. But he told a story today on his show that he went to Kansas practice the year that they were freshmen. Him and Wiggins were there together. And CBS had named Andrew Wiggins the preseason freshman of the year, which of course,

would make all the sense of the world. Andrew Wiggins was as big a recruit. Does it get the whole not? He goes to... Maple Jordan. Yeah. And so he goes to practice and he said Bill Self is talking to him. He's like, so I heard you guys are going to name Wigs whatever.

And he's like, yeah, yeah. He's like, we've got him our preseason freshman of the year. He's like, and you should. And Wiggs is great. He's like, but let me tell you something, Gary. that kid over there, that kid's going to be the best player I ever coached. And Gary said it was Embby and self goes, hey, Joel, show GP the dream shake. And he's like there and he's like trying dream shakes and stuff, whatever.

And he's like, I'm telling you, Gary, you're going to look back on my career and that's the best kid I ever coached. That's the one. Like you're right in naming Wiggins this right now, but that's the kid. Self knew. He said that was two months into his freshman year at Kansas. Oh, wow. Just special. Just special.

Like they knew. This guy, he always got the, he's got the good head on his shoulder. He, I think he started, what is it? He started playing when he was 16. Yeah, he started playing for a couple of years at that point. But, I mean, and obviously you see what he's become. And now he's got MVP. It's because he had the desire.

You know, like, Joella Beat, and it's the mindset. that it's the division that he had and the work ethic to actually not just have these goals and these dreams, but the work ethic to act on and to do it. It's so easy. Like we all, you and me, everybody has these ideas and things we want to do. It's so easy just not to do anything about it. Joel and Bede throughout his entire life and career has been someone who acts on it. And that's what he represents to me. So it's so cool to see Embed reach the levels that he has, despite so much adversity that he's been through, you know, throughout his career and life, for that matter, to be in this position now.

And the crazy thing is, Chris, you know, he's going to keep getting better as long as he can stay on the floor and stay healthy. As long as he's, as long as he can be out there, he's going to keep getting better as a player. That's how special he is. And he is, he's one of those guys that has been transparent about how much he cares. Yeah, I know. I really appreciate that.

I do. Yeah. He cares. Yeah, he does. He cares about getting better and he cares about the recognition that a guy have put in all this work and I'm not. They don't, they don't think, they don't see it yet. We're so fortunate, you know, to have like the last three MVP's, Yokic, Embed, Yonis, all three of those guys, different circumstances. Like, Embededd was drafted third, but the injury that he had with the foot injury, there was back concerns at the time.

with him he was the number one pick but then he slipped the three yonis uh this mystery pick yokech a second rounder drafted during a taco bell burrito commercial all three of these guys coming in and continuing to get better and better and better every single year and not being complacence like those guys continue trying to make improvements to their games there's no complacency that that's the secret to their success like i think for joel lumbid are you making an americans or Azy argument. Every every 12 year old

outside my house is they're literally standing outside on iPhones talking to each other. Like who is the next American MVP? Serious question. You get Wembe coming in this year. Tatum is the odds on favor for that. Is he going to win

MVP? He could. He's still 26, right? Is the next American MVP is someone who already want it? Is it Durant? Is it Stefan Curry? Could it be somebody like that? Totally possible. Who's the next American MVP? I don't think so. I don't think Chet's, I don't think Chet's an MVP. I love Chet. Paulo? Paulo? I don't know. I mean, I really like Paulo. I don't know if he's an MVP. He's got a lot of work to do on defense, a lot of work to do

as a jump shooter. Come on. Come on. Come with it. What? What do you hope to say? The The shoe drop is better? No, the shoe drop today. Come on. What? You want to say John Moran so bad. You do. Yeah, you do.

Yeah, you do, Kev. You want to say it, Gab. Give it to me, Cam. I'm not going to give you a job. I know you were online. They sold out in two minutes. I know you were there. You probably, you didn't get them on Nike.com.

Definitely not. You missed out. I have never in my life waited in life. for a shoe. You missed out on those family trivias. That's what they were called that dropped today. Never even heard of them until just this moment. I'm not a sneaker guy. It's one of my one of my fatal flaws as a basketball guy. I don't care about sneakers unless they're sent to me. I love when they're sent to me. When sneakers get sent to me, I wear them all the time. Oh, so trying to get free crap. I would love some free sneakers. I need some more. There's these one second. There's these Adidas

laceless sneakers that I got set like four or five years ago. And you still wear them. I still wear them. I know. But they're getting to the point that I can't wear them anymore. But those are my favorite. I love not having to tie my own shoes. Just throw them on.

They fit great. They're like slippers. They feel amazing. Incredible stinkers. Durant, Durant Booker. Those are two that we did name American guys. Booker.

Yeah. Trey Young. I don't know. Not good enough on defense. The competition is too steep. We're getting bleak on Americans. All right. I don't know. Halliburton, Zion. If he has a healthy season, Zion with a healthy year,

like if he plays 75 games. Wouldn't that be unbelievable? How about, how about Brandon Ingram? That's like a different one. What the hell? No, I'm serious. If Ingram has a year, you, what if you are enough with you? Listen to me. Listen to me. Listen to me. What if he has a big comeback? Listen to the universe. I said if Zion plays 75, what if Zion plays zero games? And then Ingram has a season where he, he plays 80 and he's the guy and they ride him and he averages like 27. Kevin O'Pellon rides again. Six assists. Ingram's got it in him. For goodness sakes.

It might be a while. And now Wemby's coming. Now Wemby's coming. Let's be honest. You could write, hey, write the hot take column. An American will never be the MVP again. These kids are too spoiled. Hey, you too many miles of and blah, blah, blah.

And 50% of the league is going to be, you know, a global. One more name. One more. It could be somebody not in the league yet. Oh, God. It could be Mattas Buzellis in the 2024 draft. He could be the number one pick. He's like a 6 foot 10, 6 foot 11.

I know. Ball handling presence. Mattas Buzellis. You know, I know the guy. He's going to play in the G league. That's not how. The way I know him is when I was at All-Star this year in Salt Lake, they had that, oh, what do they call it?

Basketball Without Borders. Oh, yeah, basketball without borders is awesome. So they have all of the GMs and the scouts and everybody that are there, and they can go to like a closed gym. And they fly in like whatever, 15, 20 best kids, whatever. And so I asked a couple of the people that I knew that went to that. I was like, so who do I need to know about? Like who's the next, who's the next thing that's going to be the hot name?

Who's going to be those guys? Like, you know, the giddies. Then you're going to end up seeing in the lottery at one point. And then you're going to be like, oh, yeah. Like, I saw him at basketball without board or whatever. And two of the guys that I talked to said it was that kid and everybody else. Like there was a stark contrast. There was a stark contrast between him.

And like when I said, are there any other like surefire lotteries? and they're like, it was that kid. And then whatever the drop off you want to talk about was like he's that good. Yeah, but Mattas Buzellis, he's really good. And then the kid who went viral, Cooper Flagg is 16 years old. Cooper Flagg, he'll be 2016, 20206 NBA draft. So he's a ways away. I saw him.

I saw him on Instagram. Cooper Flag is something else, man. He looks like he's a grown man already. He looks like he's ready for the league. You know what it looks like? It looks like. that, like, what they made Wancho Hernan Gomez

look like in Hustle. I love it. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. Right? What was it? Boe Cruz. Bo Cruz. Yeah. He looks like the real-life Bo-Cruz. Yeah. Do you know I had somebody of the NBA text

me after that movie came out and said that Hernan Gomez should win an Academy Award for that movie for blocking shots? The best acting performance? performance they ever saw because the guy's never blocked a shot in his career.

That's so mean. I was like, damn, bro. So, man. It'd be funny if he would have won, best actor. They're like, do you know the acting ability it took for him to block a shot? I was like, damn! Anthony Edwards was pretty good in that too. That movie was good. It was good movie.

I liked it. I was like entertained the whole time. But that's what that Instagram reminds me of when I saw Connor Flag. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Bo Cruz is real. Cooper. Cooper.

Oh, Cooper flag. You get a lot of time to get the name right. I do. He's just flag. Flag also is a cool basketball last name. It is a cool name. Yeah, it's good for headlines too, right? Raise the flag or don't burn this flag.

Flag. Yeah, the flag got burned. All right. So look. This has been a very, very good playoffs for sure so far. The fact that the dud games are few and far between is what's great. More often than that, we've gotten entertaining games pretty much night in and night out. So I've been happy about that.

Thank you to our producer tonight, Sasha Ashah, who is back with us. She can't leave us. She can't leave us, Cam. She's back tonight. Jesse Lopez is out. Congratulations to him as well. Yep. getting married.

He is. Unbelievable. Getting married on May the 4th. Congrats to him and his now wife. He was getting married today? Today, yeah. Because of the Star Wars thing? I didn't realize that.

I knew he's getting married, but I didn't. I think that's partially why, but it was also like the best date available. So it was like a mixture of the Star Wars thing. I hope they dressed up like Wookie's. See, some pictures. It's pretty cool. Or Ewox. Just up like Ewax.

In order to get married. That's amazing. All right. That's going to do it for our show today. Kevin, I will talk to you later this week. Looking forward. Oh, no, wait. No, next week.

Today's Thursday. Let me redo that. Goofy? Nah, keep it. Fine. Keep it. I don't get a shit. You don't know your days of the week, Chris.

And we'll talk to you next week.