The Mismatch - The Young Warriors, Paolo’s Proportionate Size, and Thanks Steph Curry

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

Verno and KOC report from Las Vegas one last time, as they discuss the latest news on Deandre Ayton before going into James Wiseman’s Summer League debut and how good the young Warriors looked (01:03). Paolo Banchero has been one of the most talked about players in Summer League because of his play and his unexpected size when seeing him up close (13:08). They also discuss the strange comments made by Cam Thomas before diving into how much fun they’ve had at this year’s Summer League (26:06). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, Rob Harvilla from 60 Songs That Explain the 90s here to inform you that we are back with 30 more songs because the 90s were super long and had a ton of rad music. Please join us every Wednesday for more 60 songs that explain the 90s only on Spotify. Welcome to The mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me live in Las Vegas from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.A. Kevin O'O.C.O.C.C. Kevin O'Chyl. Kevin O'Chyl. Kevin O'O. Burnow! What's going on, Chris? We get to do another one in person. NBA Summer League has been going on. Big news, as we record this on a Monday, that has dropped,

that does not deal with Summer League, is everything with free agency has calmed down a lot. But Brian Winhorse brought to everybody's attention that there might be a landing spot for DeAndre Aiton. Yes, Wynhorst mentioned the Pacers with their cap space could be a team that could sign him this week, which is very interesting there. I mean, like one of the few teams,

Pacers and Spurs that have Cabos Base that could sign Aiton. I think for them, it makes some sense, man. You know, you get Aiton and Turner together. You get your two big system. Either of those guys, maybe you decide to trade Turner at some point after trying to trade him for three years. And you get Aiton in there with Mathuron and Halliburton in that back quarter could be really nice.

Do you think there's any chance? they would match. Yeah. Because, right, they don't want to give him. He wants five years. Yeah. They don't want to give him five years. But then when somebody signs him to four years, they just come in and they say, all right,

now we got him on the contract. So that it's been in his best interest to hopefully find a sign and trade so we can get the five years and then he could go somewhere. Well, no, no, sign and trade he can only be a four years. Oh, he can? Yeah. Okay. So, boy, that would be the booby prize, though, right?

If he gets the, if the Pacers say, all right, we're signing you to the four-year max or whatever, and then it sounds like, okay, that's what we're doing. Like, he wouldn't, he doesn't want to sign that with Phoenix. But now he doesn't have, there's no out. I don't know. I don't know. Do you want a player that's unhappy? Unless there isn't out, right? I mentioned to Charks and Kyle on the Boyd pod we recorded on Sunday.

Like the Kings were a team I heard weeks ago. Weeks ago, the Kings were a team that could be a potential sign and trade destination for DeAndre Ait. I haven't heard much about that recently at all, but it's the type of thing where the Kevin Durant thing is still looming out there. How much of that is a factor? How much is the reporting that we've heard this morning really about some pressure to get something done here? are things potentially going to be accelerated in the coming days involving Katie and the suns? We don't know. We don't know that.

Like maybe it'll drop by the time this podcast, you know, airs. I don't know. I have no idea it could happen in any moment. But all I know is these teams are here, these teams are still talking. And they could linger quite a while. So I think the biggest buzz about Summer League, at least yesterday being over there, was about wise we have just not seen him for so long. months.

15 months. Last April we saw him. So I went over there and I met up with Rissilo for that Warriors game. Of course, they ran the first play of the game. They were on this lob to him. Oh, that was nice. You know, the games are not built for big guys. But it ended up being a really good basketball game for sure.

Highly entertaining. And that's because every once in a while, there are these guys that are at Summer League that are so damn entertaining that you, the whole crowd just starts buzzing the whole time. And it was not necessarily what you would think. It wasn't Cominga. It wasn't Wiseman. It was the McClung show.

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. And he's wearing 55 like Jay Will used to. And he had some moves. I mean, the crowd was going crazy for McClung. You know, he was G League rookie of the year last year. I don't understand. I think he has an NBA future.

Oh, yeah. You see it, right? Yes. I mean, look, everybody tries to attack him because he's MacLong, right? On the smaller side, of course. And so they try to go after him. But he has got some real swagger to him. And yeah, he was really good in the game.

Camingo with a monster. And by the way, McLung, he's legit improved because when he was young, people thought he was just a score. Yep. In the G league last year, his playmaking improved a ton. And that was the thing he had to get better at in college and now has gotten better at as a professional. So I think for NBA teams, even though he's undersized, even though he'd be attacked, we just thought Peyton Pritcher getting minutes in the finals.

Right. So I think McCong is the type of player who's at least going to get an opportunity at some point in the NBA. Yeah, it was a big bounce back for Cominga. He was dreadful in the first game. Yeah. But a bounce back for him. But the story was about Wiseman. And here's what I'll say.

Obviously, I've seen him since high school. He's really starting to fill out. You know, you see these guys when they first come into the league. you see them as a high school player. He's starting to fill out. And one of the things, as you are watching, is some of these guys just are so physically imposing. And if you think, man, that team, he absolutely could have had a profound effect in playoff games. You saw how effective Looney was in those games.

Imagine if they would have been able to bring him off. They're very, very careful with James. but he is certainly super physical imposing. He can finish the lobs. And I was really happy to see him out there. And I thought he looked good. I thought he was moving well. And certainly do not think he's like lost explosion.

Like he can finish. He's above the rim guy. And so when you add him to the mix, Kaminga, who had a big bounce back yesterday, and then Moody, who just killed everybody in their first game. 34 points. Yeah, he was. I mean, that's what you want.

You want those guys that are like the second year guys to come back and just look so much better than everybody else. I remember several years ago going to a game where it was like Brandon Ingram. The Lakers were like playing him in his second year. And I mean, it was just so obvious when you were watching. Like, this guy's better than everybody. You saw last year if you saw Maxie. Maxi, they put him in Summer League.

And it's like, okay. Giddy this year. Terry's next. Just like we talked about on Friday show. I mean, you could see it. That's obviously, he's a level above, you know, the players that he is playing against. And so I think really promising for the Warriors, a team that just won the title, and McClung was fun, and Kaminga had the bounce bag, Moody killed everybody the last game,

and then Wiseman, I think the instant reviews were really, really good, and I was there, and I was impressed. I was. I think, so Tuesday's game for the Warriors is going to be the one I'm really excited to see. I won't be here in Vegas for it, but Wiseman, Kaminga, and Moody are all supposed to play. Yeah. So we're going to get a taste of some of the options off the bench this year for Gold's say, now they have Dante Di Venzo and Jordan Poole.

So those are five young players, all 25 years old or younger, that Kerr's going to be able to mix and match with their established starters. Yep. And so it's very exciting in that sense because with Wiseman, yes, he has seven files. That's one more than you're allowed to have an NBA game. And some of them were cheap whistles. Yeah. Let's just be honest.

Some of those were really cheap whistles. Some of them were because he fell out of position, and then he had to compensate and he ended up falling. But the two blocks he had, drop coverage and the pick and roll, that provides something new, the warriors haven't had before, with the presence that he has around the rim. And the best play, though, was in the drop again, I think second half, if I remember correctly,

where he just jumped straight up in the air with both arms up, and it was like, oh, that's like a disciplined play that you want to see from your seven-foot or around the basket. Never mind the finishing at the room. One thing I did find, though, talking after that game, talking after that game with a lot of Warriors people, like not Warriors execs, like Warriors Media. Media tended to say he seemed like he was pouting during the game

when he wasn't getting the ball, rolling his eyes, people that are up close. Well, it stinks. Yeah. This is not a thing for Biggs. We're talking about this with Jabari. Yeah, but you don't want to see that as well. Probably not. But, I mean, you probably also, for the,

first time in 15 months. You get it. You get it. You know, give me the ball. I know. You totally get it. Give me the ball. Give me the ball.

I will make a little excuse for the bigs. The bigs have it the worst in the summer league for sure. Now, unless you're like an initiator, like Bencaro. Someone creating offense, regardless of size, you're good. But Wiseman, if you're like setting screens and rolling to the rim, like, dude. Good luck. I'm glad you mentioned. Van Carrow because he's the next guy that I'm going to mention.

So. Can we talk a little more warriors? Oh, okay. Yeah, like to look. Just because with Moody. An awesome team should not have an awesome Summer League team like that. And that is what is scary about the Warriors going forward. You can talk about Moody.

I love Moody in the draft. I mean, the thing with Moody, though, I was thinking about this. You let go of Gary Payton, but Moody is 6-5, 7. seven one wing span, and we saw throughout the year and the playoffs, he can do the three and D stuff. But the reason why he was compared to McKell Bridges before the draft, because Bridges can do more than just shoot spot-up threes, cut to the rim, play good defense. He can do stuff off the bounce. We've seen, we've seen already Moody hit, you know, attack a closeout, hit a turnaround jumper from mid-range. He's hitting threes off screens.

He's able to pull up from mid-range off the dribble out of a pick and roll. he can do more than just the 3-and-D stuff. And so for Golden State, yeah, you lose Gary Payton, that sucks because he's so good on the ball as a defender. He's a good spot-up shooter on a low volume. But Moody, he's such a higher-up side player. And so for the Warriors, you think about where they were last season, and winning a title, like you just said.

If Moody ends up popping this year, suddenly they have a really good 3-Indee player on a rookie contract. If Wiseman is able to be a competent player for 10 minutes per game, not even 20, 25. You get a lob threat. Now you have verticality spacing, and you have a guy who could protect the room in certain situations.

And then with Cominga, I mean, we'll see. He's still raw. He's athletic. But, I mean, like that Warriors bench with those three guys, then Devencenzo and pool, I mean, the upside is significant for those guys. Moody is going to be a guy.

I mean, I loved him coming out of the draft. He's one of the few guys that I went to war for. And that's, you know, I watched him a ton of Arkansas. He played for Musselman there. Musselman just loved the kid. You know, by all counts. Great kid.

He's mega hard worker. And he's just, he is, you look at him and you look at that frame. That's what the NBA is now. The NBA is the guys that look like Moody create the advantage for you. These wings that can make jumpers and drive to the basket and also defend their position. And so, yeah, the Warriors. certainly big time. I'm sure.

I'm sure you love saying that. I must feel good. Oh, I couldn't care less. I mean, come on. It's a rivalry, Chris. Grizzlies Warriors is turning into something. I mean, I don't want to say that they were thinking about the Grizzlies

after they won the title, but I mean, they were. They were. It's like the other series didn't even happen for them. So I'm with it. You know what I mean? I hope.

None of these guys are John Moran, Keff. Let's hold on a second. I hope this turns into something. Grizzlies warriors. Oh, I don't want to. too badly. I don't think you have to worry about that. Badly. And we need teams not liking each other. I know. You know what I mean? We need that. We've missed that.

Yeah. Recently. That's why I feel so fresh. Yeah. Even though a lot of it's like modernized through social media with, you know, the bickering back and forth. I love it. And it's like the older guys that like, you know, are telling the younger guys to shut up. It's a tale is old this time. It's so great. The young guys chirping and the old guys being like, shut up. You hadn't done nothing.

You know what I mean? It's so great. It's that kind of stuff. I love it. Speaking of physically imposing, and we're talking about Wiseman, let me get to Paulo because it feels like, look, everybody's still high on chat, but that got quelled once people have now seen Paulo in person. And I cannot tell you how many people I have talked to that it's funny a couple of weeks ago on our pod,

I said to you that I just run into Paulo Bencaro. and remember I said what he had measured and that became like this aggregated thing like it was like a story wow he's measured you know six 10 and a half in shoes or whatever it was at the time and I was like I didn't even know that was news but I'm telling you the guy is absolutely enormous

and I can tell you how many people here that now have seen Paulo I think whatever people's perception was of Paul kind of like as a wing, you know, and I think he also had some other big guys on his team, like Mark Williams is a freak of nature, and some of these other guys were pretty big guys. How many people have said, man, he's a lot bigger than I thought he was, right? He is legitimately physically imposing. And so I was having this discussion with someone, and I was saying to them, you know,

all these people are saying to me now, I find it so funny because it was my reaction when I first came across him. how big the kid is and it was this group that is actually doing marketing for Bankero and they said that I found this to be so fascinating that they said that what somebody told them

is that and they believe this to be true that the reason people don't that are surprised that Vancaro is bigger than he is is because he's like and maybe this stands to reason if they're doing the marketing, maybe they've had to get measurements and everything, that he's like completely proportional, that he is this really big guy,

but he doesn't have, I thought this was so fascinating, but he doesn't have this, like, characteristic where he's got these really long legs or he's got this, like, enormous torso, or he's got these freakishly long arms. Not like Chet, something like that. Yeah, something you see and you're like, Jesus, like the first time I saw John is. Even Michael Bridges on. Yes. Very long.

Or Moody. Yeah. when you see them and they've got these freakish characteristics. Like, nothing is freakish about it. He looks like just a, like a blown up regular person. You know what I mean? Like, there's no trait of his. It's like out of swords.

And a lot of times when you see these really big guys, you know, something is abnormal. And nothing is like abnormal about it. I thought that was so fascinating. It's like Mario with the mushroom, the Super Mario. Just a bigger version of themselves. Just a bigger version. And then they said to me, and then they said, you know who else is like that?

And you're going to love this because it was one of the few guys that when I saw him at first and I came on the pod and I was like, that dude is bigger do you think he is? Giddy. Kitty. He's just a big dude. But he doesn't have the one thing that makes him look like he's a really big guy. Right? Like sometimes they got these really long legs or I got these really long arms. arms, they got whatever.

Like, these guys are just, yeah, they're Super Mario's. They just jumped on the mushroom. I mean, I never thought about it like that. I know. But now you're saying, it just makes total sense. Yeah, they're just, if you're proportional, you don't look as big. But we need the proportional all-stars team. But I think, yeah, the proportional all-stars.

It's like Zion's exempts. Yeah. The Chats exempts. You know what was another one that's like this? I was telling, so we got this conversation. And I was like, because there's always these guys that once you see them in person, you're like, damn, bro, I didn't know that guy was that big. And Paulo, you're right.

Like, everybody have spoken to it. Everybody. Everybody. It's like charts and Jake Alman, same thing. Everybody in the league have talked to. Everything. You know, that dude is. Everybody.

Go ahead. I saw the odds this morning and they're no good. They're like plus 440 or something. Oh, to win rookie of the year? That dude is going to score a lot of points that have a lot of, He's going to have real numbers this year. He's going to rack up assists too. He's going to be physically imposing on the NBA level.

Like, that is the difference. Chet's not going to be physically imposing, right? He's going to do his stuff with quickness or whatever else. I don't think Chet's a good rookie of the year, bet. No, this guy is bigger than NBA guys now, right? And so that was one of the things. The other guy that I was going to say is Sadiq Bay. Oh, Sidique Bay is another game.

Yeah, and I was like, he's a Super Mario guy. I mean, he's got some long arms. He does have long arms, but not abnormally long arms. When you see him, he's a lot bigger than you think he is. Yeah, he's huge. Right? Many, it's very common amongst wings. Anyways, yeah, the Apollo buzz, super real. A lot of Keegan Murray buzz.

People like Keegan Murray, Kevin. People are loving Keegan Murray, man. You know, he's taking 10-3s a game in the Summer League game so far, and he's shooting 40%? I mean, 10-3s is a big number. And doing it in different ways. It's spot up. off movement.

Step back. He hit that step back in game. And then he followed up with the drive, then the cut for the end one. Kegan Murray, I mean, I'll tell you what, Chris.

Like you and I both like Jaden and Ivy. You like him even more than I do. It's easy to understand why they took him. Kegan Murray, that is, right? I mean, isn't it becoming clear why they took him?

He looks, again, we always do the whole, it's all translatable. Bro, he looks good. It's all translatable. That's a good basketball, player. A hundred percent. That's a good

bad. Like, I don't care, I don't care where you're playing basketball. That is a good basketball player, this guy. I mean, we're talking about players that graduated Summer League and players that, you know, feel like they belong. Kegan Murray might just be a rookie playing in his, you know, first month of action as a professional, but

this dude belongs in the NBA, and it's going to be in the league for a damn long time, dude, like with his type of skill set. And, I mean, I want to ask you the same question I asked, Charts and Kyle yesterday, because everybody talks about him as like a role player, you know, a high-end role player.

Oh, he's going to fit next to Fox and Sabonis. But do you think there's a chance he has like some star upside within him? It's always a chance. It's always a chance. So you think so? Yes. A lot of people still don't.

No, there's always a chance. Is it the officer dribble stuff that makes you feel that belief? I just think that it is now. I used to feel like your chances were limited if you were not the mega-eth. fleet and now so many of the best players in the league are not the above the rim. They're just solid-ass, mega-skilled basketball players.

And you think about, you know, even Steph Curry, James. James Hardin. Yoke and Luca. There's a bunch of them. There's a bunch of those guys now that are not like the, I, I can just, do things physically that you cannot. Therefore, I set myself apart. And so now when you team up my skill with,

you can't stay in front of me or you can, but there's just so many guys that now are the most skilled and smart basketball players that I think you, I think you do kind of put guys in a box if you say he doesn't have, he doesn't have the requisite athleticism. I do think that it was maybe more important for a stretch there because I was like, you know, and clearly you have a super advantage if you are the fast Twitch guy.

And he's not that, right? He's not going to, he's not flying past you off the dribble and cracking on you. But Claytonos is a Hall of Famer. Yeah. You know what I mean? You're right, yeah. So the idea that I'm going to put the guy in a box. I'm not saying the guy's Clayton's.

What I'm saying is putting him in the same way, you know, Clay Thompson's not going out there and crossing anybody over and cracking on them. That's not a prerequisite. And by the way, you're talking about, like, I don't know, I don't have the odds in front of me. I have no idea what the odds are. But if you're talking rookie of the year bets, like I don't think Chet's a good one, like you said.

Jabari Smith, I don't think it's a good one. I think Keegan Murray is a solid sleeper selection. I'm not sure if he'll have the number. numbers there. But let's just say Paulo, you know, let's say he doesn't have the numbers people expect. Maybe Keegan Murray and the on a Kings playing team get some good two-way numbers. He's kind of that becomes that nerdy selection. Yeah. Where it's like, oh, he is a great defensive player this year. The Kings were better. And he averaged 15 points with, you know, seven rebounds and three assists. You know, maybe that's like the what ends up getting consideration.

I don't know. Look, he got the blowback. And I talked to you about this a couple weeks ago. I don't think it's about him as a player. As much as I do, it was about the asset that was the fourth pick. Yeah, we don't know. We don't know what was available. And this idea that they didn't have to do it. That's just not. Right. I mean, we don't know. We'll never know. I mean, the thing is, the thing is, is there are so many rumblings around draft time that Detroit at five or Indiana at six wanted Keegan Murray. And so you can say theoretically, Sacramento could have traded down, but those teams either might have taken Murray anyway at four or or if they traded down, let's say, to seven or eight,

Kegan would not have been there. He just wouldn't have been there. And you could say, well, then they could have taken Dyson Daniels or Jalen Duran or whoever. You can say that, but they wanted Kegan Murray. Yeah. Yeah. And they wanted Kegan.

And what was told to me yesterday, you can be hardcore and be like, I don't care, but the word is, Ivy, like, did not play ball, with them at all. He didn't want to be there. Yeah, no communication, no working, and so you can be

hardcore saying, we don't care, we're just taking the guy, no matter what, we're taking the guy that was highest on our board, no matter what. Which is what they did last year with Davey on Mitchell, who also did not interview or work out or anything. But there is, there is something to that, which is like, hey, this guy wants to be here, this guy would want to be a part

of it. No kidding, man. I agree with you. It's unfortunate. That's a factor, but if you're the Kings, it's like dating. You want to You want to be with someone and invest your time in someone that wants to be with you, that sees and you, like what you know, what you see and what could be. With Keegan Murray, it's the same thing. Do you really want to invest in Jaden and Ivy? Rightfully so.

If you're Ivy, do I really want to go play with Fox and Mitchell? Like, is that really the best situation from my development? Like, if you're Ivy, I get it. And if you're the Kings, I get it too. And they pissed people off with the Halliburton thing. They really did. Because he did want to be there. He did want to be there.

You finally got that guy. And then he's like, he's crushed. I know. You finally got a guy who A is good and B wants to be a part of this. I know. And then they bounce him. And so you got to imagine from the outside looking in.

There's a lot of these players and a lot of these guys that have same agents, etc. They're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't want a part of that. Because look what it just happened. Our guy, that last guy did play ball. He did want to be there. played great, said over and over again, he wants to be part of the solution.

He wants to be the one that helps him get back to the playoffs, whatever, and then you rolled him. So, I mean, you do rebutt yourself in that case. It's all understandable. I think each side is valid, really. I think Sacramento, I hope for them Keegan Murray works out. That's the main thing. I hope Keegan Murray works.

Wouldn't it be cool to see the Kings have a good team for once, Chris? Yes. Wouldn't that be cool? It's been 16 years. I mean, I remember being a kid. kid like those watching those late night Kings games

the crowds were always amazing yes amazing and now they have this I haven't been to the arena but supposedly amazing state of the art super cool the arena

yeah and they have like this crap team that hasn't been able to compete for the playoffs playing in it I just hope the team gets good that's all

it'd be sick to see that stadium filled up with some crazy Kings fans again other guys that are like the second year guys we talked about

moody going off obviously Cam Thomas never seen a shot he does not like and in fact that was like did you see that post game interview that was wild

which one? So Cam Thomas you might have missed this and they were like it is what it is yeah they were like talking about finding your teammate Steve Nash you know said

I talked to your coach this morning Steve Nash and he talked about looking for your shot and looking for your teammates and as she said looking for your teammates he's like

huh? What? I was kind of look on his face like what are you talking about? And then she's like, what are you laughing about that for? And he's like, it is what it is. I did not. And I love Camp Thomas, Chris.

He's one of my favorite draft prospects from last year. I did not like that answer. You didn't? That is not the answer you should be given. When I, when I joked to somebody about it yesterday, it's a bad sign. They were like, do you ever go back?

They're like, go back and look at the LSU games. Like, there's like 30.0 assist games. I know. And I was like, oh, boy. You're never going to believe who's leading the summer league shot attempt. Hey, but he's getting buckets. He is getting buckets. He can score it. So the thing is, it's like, I was in San Diego last year for Nets training camp because that's where they were out training. This is like, I talked to Camp Thomas and he was all about, you know,

like learning about the sacrifice and learning how to be a playmaker and everything. And so for him to respond that way now entering his second season, I wonder how much of that is like him falling back into old habits, like high school habits, or how much of it is, like, these guys just don't like Steve Nash. Yeah. Is it that they just don't like Steve Nash? I don't know. But here's what I would tell you.

I think Nash is pretty far down the list, probably, with their problems. And we originally thought, he's a great example. We always talk about how, is it where, how much of where you get drafted is what determines what your destiny becomes? and I think Cam Thomas is a great example of someone that we thought was in the absolute perfect situation, but in fact, maybe the worst to be in that level of toxicity, dysfunction, stars that want out. Like, I mean, you can't imagine you have one guy who wouldn't get vaccinated to play for the team, another guy who, you know, goes out to all hours of the night and then shows up to shoot around the next morning.

And then next to, you know, he's not only dogging it, but asking for a trade. And now you have Durant who's going like, I want to get traded and now I'm radio silent. It's like, yo, if you're a young player in the league, this is what you've been shown? Like, this is what you, this is what NBA life is like. like you can't I don't know what what Cam Thomas is going to become but if we talk about like nurturing

a career and understanding about being a professional and all of the things that go into how to react in an interview when you're asked about a coaching thing or whatever else it's like you just I talk about good schools and bad schools right you can take these kids

and you put them into a there's some that are you could throw them into a bad school and they're just going to rise above no matter what. But there's no question. If you put them in the good school, man, you're giving them every opportunity

to reach what they're going to be, right? The kid who's in a bad, maybe the worst school. I mean, there's graffiti on the walls. They need, they need Dr. Joe Clark from lean on me

to show up at the Brooklyn Nets, straighten that shit up, because they, it's terrible. Think about that. You're right. I mean, you think about it.

This is your example? You're right, Chris. I mean, that's one of the things I talked to him about is like the mentorship of James Hardin and Kyrie Urban. Terrible. What do you expect this kid to turn out to be? Oh, I know. Look at who he's looked up to. Yeah.

One guy's like, yeah, I ain't getting vaccinated. Forget all that. Did you see him by? Oh, you weren't there. Two days ago? Kyrie here, right? I heard. He was right down from Balmer and Jerry West.

Yeah. I mean, it's very interesting who's here. Yeah. You know what I mean? I've seen everybody. I mean, everybody's been here. Everybody. I think it's because of the pandemic.

But everybody's just descended on. I mean, it genuinely, it genuinely is nice to see people here. Yes. To walk around and, you know, see a smile on their faces and give a big hug, you know, dab them up, whatever, right? Just, it's good to see people. You know how many guys I've passed in the hallway? I'm talking about it in the hotel.

And I wanted to go up and be like, I still believe, right? So many of those guys that I've, you know, young players. No, those bulldog college guys. I ran into Sandarius Thornwell yesterday. Oh, I love Thornwell. I did too.

What a good hard-nowness player. I love that South Carolina team. Ran into Admiral Schofield. Like all these guys. I'm like, yo, the bulldogs are here. And I'm like, y'all go show out. I looked up their numbers. They ain't doing much.

in Germany or something. Scoville's playing for the magic, and he's in that front court with Bencaro. It's been nice, though, man. Hasn't it been good to hang? Yes. I felt kind of weird. Like, it feels weird seeing everybody in person

because what's become normal is online, seeing like all your digital avatars and your tweets and everything. I'll tell you, and consuming your messages in that way or through podcasts or videos, and now everybody's in the same place at one time. It's all very strange.

It was really weird. It was really weird that so many of the people that I've come in contact with that I feel like I knew, but I really didn't, I've never been around them. Well, I had a moment a couple weeks ago where I met someone in person and for the first time that I previously podcasted with and I said, good to meet you. And they were like, we've met before. And I was like, no, we've recorded a podcast before.

I was like, yeah, but not in person. I was like, yeah, yeah, but that doesn't matter. I know. You know, we've met before. There's a lot of people. And it's a type of thing where like, yeah, you know, you're not wrong. Yeah. You're not wrong.

Someone that I do know that I have been in person. with many times. And I was most happy to see. I was so happy. Our mutual friend, Jonathan Charks is here. And Charks has written about his battle with cancer. So, I mean, we're not speaking out of school here. You can go read the articles about what he's been going through.

And Charks had a rough time. Even recently, he had recently got pneumonia, which is mega scary, especially when you're going through that. They wrote about on his wife, Maloney. Lissa wrote a book on their Caring Bridge. They have a blog where they provide updates on there. And he had like, the lungs were filling up with fluid and all this stuff.

And I mean, but just getting to hang out, watch the game with him yesterday and everything. After all, he'd been going through it because, you know, like you don't get to, you don't get to see people.

Like, it's like he's been going through that since, right, like the pandemic. And so I used to see him a lot because he would come up to Memphis, especially if he was close to Dallas, right?

So he would dart up quite a bit. and certainly would have been there a bunch throughout the playoffs this year, etc. But I just hadn't seen him in so long, so it was great to see him in person. So many of the people at the Ringer and people that I hadn't met before, I had never met your editor, Matt Dodger. I never met Tyler Parker was with him yesterday. You and Matt, clicking on golf. I love it, yeah.

I had never been around Jay Kyle Mann. Got to be around him. And obviously, I've known Rissillo for years, and I've known charts for years. But it was super cool. Yeah, getting to see all those guys here was super fun. And then I'm surprised that this year, much more so than years before, it feels like there is an immense amount of veteran players. Used to just be the young guys.

It's an absurd amount. It used to just be the young guys, right? And now it's like the whole league. Like, it's not surprising to see Alperin Schengen. No, but it is surprising to see the number of veterans, like even a Kuzma. It's a little surprising. Well, like even, I told you, I went down to get coffee this morning. I rode the elevator with precious Ochoa.

Yeah. He doesn't have to be here. No, the whole team's here. Yeah. The Raptors team, right? Like a lot of these teams have gotten together out here in Vegas. It's pretty cool. And so there's an immense amount of veteran players that are out.

You know what, Chris, part of me hopes it's like this. every year. I think it probably will be now. I think it's become an event in a way that it wasn't before. I think it really is an event. With all the teams here as well. And I think also post, I mean, I don't like to say post, but like with the way the pandemic's evolved,

we're at the point now where people want to get together. Absolutely. So, I mean, I've felt that personally this week. Yep. I mean, it's just as someone who's been cooped up inside, you know, work and work and work and working, and then, you know, with the pandemic and everything like that. I've had a couple moments the last couple weeks,

including on the 4th of July, here in Vegas multiple times where it's just like, man, I miss people. I miss hanging out with groups of people and doing stuff and and having good times. But yeah, it's been, it's been great to see people in person out here this week, man. It feels strange, like I said, though. I don't know, like, how was that top golf the other night? And it's just like, Jesse is there. I've only seen him on Zoom before. And then there's all these other people like you see on Twitter, their avatars and all that. It's like,

damn, like I feel like I'm in the metaverse right now. You are. Yeah, that's what it felt like. You're in the matter of it. Whereas,

like, Twitter is the normal. Like, that's a normal state. Yes. Whereas this was weird. Just being around them and actually like speaking to them.

Yeah, like, it was weird. It's like, I just look up and I see my editor talking to someone I listen to on a podcast. Yeah.

You know what I'm just, I don't know, man. It's a good time, though. And I hope, I hope people, we've talked about it before.

fans going to come to Summer League too. It is a great experience for fans. It's a great experience for anybody. I love Vegas Summer League. It's great opportunity, and it's nice to see all of these young players. And what I'm so, I'm left with this every year

where some of the basketball is just so bad, it's incomprehensible. I'm telling you, Kevin, I went to the worst basketball game. I've maybe ever seen them alive. Which game was this? This was Memphis, Minnesota. I did not see it.

Dude, you're lucky. At one point, the teams were combined. I want to say it was like two for 59 for three. Wow. Yo, go look at that box score when you get a chance. It is... I'm going to pull it up as you're talking. It was history.

That's the game I was at with Rosillo and charts and all those guys. And at some point, we're just like rooting for makes. It was outrageous. It ended up like six for six. or it was something crazy. Not to mention 30-something turnovers, maybe like 38 or something. I mean, if they weren't missing shots

or turned it over, there's a ton of fouls, it was awful, absolutely awful. And that's the one thing. Like, you could go back to Summer League, and that's the brutal part of it, is sometimes the games are so bad. Like I mentioned that, Warrior Spurs game was actually pretty good.

But the other one, the Memphis game was just. So the final was 70 to 63. Minnesota shot 24 69, nice, 34.8% from the field. Memphis. No, no, from three, though. With this year from three. Four of 33 for 12.1%. And then Memphis was three of 31 from three.

What is that? Seven for 65? Yeah, seven for 64. Yeah, that's wild. That's terrible. 57 missed three. Wow. Thanks, Steph Curry.

Thanks. Ruin the game, Steph. What? You bastard. 57 missed threes. I was there for it. But what's your take on? Find a game.

What's your take on that about like Steph ruining the game? What's your take on that, Chris? Oh, yeah. No, but like you, do you, sometimes you hear you? I think there's a take on that. Look, I think this is the worst of it, which is like that there's a bunch of teams that take a million threes, and there's a bunch of teams that probably shouldn't take a million threes. That's what I would say. So I don't blame him.

I understand the numbers of it all. I understand the effectiveness. I also understand the randomness of it. And especially how it can even affect playoff outcomes. and then beyond that, that a hot shooting night, just because if you shoot 45 of them, the night you hit 20,

you're going to mangle someone, and the night you hit 12, you're going to get your ass beat. And I get that, but there are, I would argue that there are a lot of teams that are not properly equipped to take the amount of threes that they take,

but they take them anyway. And this is a prime example when you get into Summer League, and it's like, okay, this is the way we play. So this is what you would be, doing, like, those numbers are not crazy if you think about it in an NBA game.

But, like, these guys are ready to shoot NBA threes at that clip. I mean? At any clip, they can't make anything. I'm at the game. I'm like, Jesus, KOC out there. You're going to chuck it in once.

I mean, I don't know if I'd beat Ben Simmons. I don't think I'd beat Ben Simmons in a shooting contest. Look, you're going to, but I'm saying, if I just gave you. I'm very realistic about my abilities in my shortcomings. If I gave you 10 shots. I spent a lot of time looking within Chris working on myself. I know I know my strengths and weakness is and you know shooting a basketball not one of my greatest. But if I gave you, if I gave you 10 of them, one of them is going to probably drop in. Yeah. If I gave you 57 of them.

Surely you could make a couple. Sure. I'm saying you could have outdone both these teams. Do you think? All right, here's the question. Have a while running up and down the court. Are you giving me like spot-ups? as you are and you can't shoot, do you think you can make seven of 64? Yeah, I do. I do, too. I do, too.

Yeah. But not while running up and out of the court after playing defense and taking a charge and boxing out, because that's the way I play, Chris. I make winning plays. I screen, I cut to the rim. You know what?

He went to the dispensary is what he did. Kevin home cannabis. It's talking about taking charges and making winning plays. That's how I play. You know how many charges. You are Admiral Skoky. You know how many charges I've taken playing on cement in the past? Yo, it's not a charge if you just get run over.

Just because you got run over, don't make it a charge. I'm 100% I'm 100% play with my friends. I put the charge pose on. They hate your ass. You are the guy that takes charges in a fun game. I was the guy sitting screens. I mean, hey, I mean. That's last pick mentality.

That is last pick mentality. No, man, I'm a winning player. That's what it is. You just pair me up with a score. I'll get him open. Oh, Kevin O's green center. Okay. Well, the...

I know my game. The games that are going on today, people are going to get a chance to see that Rockets team again. They've got a bunch of guys on their team. You have to see Jabari Smith. the ball. Yeah, well, you got Magic Thunder,

so hopefully both those guys play. That'd be nice. I don't know, you know, but that would be Chet Bala, and it'd be something

certainly to look forward to. But the one thing that I was going to say earlier was, I'm continually surprised at, you know, there's so many great young players in the league,

and you come out to this, and despite what I watched yesterday, you could dart into so many games and you're like, boy, these guys, they do keep getting better and better, and the talent level in the NBA is so strong

because there's even guys that I watch out there, and I'm like, and that guy's not even on an NBA roster. For instance, you know, when we saw, I told you, I was watching McClong yesterday. He's good. He's good enough to be in a roster. He's good. And there's other guys like that.

You watch them and you're like, man, there's some really good players out here. They can't get on NBA rosters. And then the ones that are these draft picks, they're just, you are left thinking about, boy, people are really high on Paulo. People still really love Chet. You see Gideon, how awesome he looks. And then you've got like some of these gunners who will see.

I was joking earlier about how Cam Thomas is leading in field goal attempts. Do you want to know who's second in field goal attempts? He's only played in one game. Jaden Hardy? Jaden Hardy. Jaden Hardy. Jaden Hardy. You know the one that was driving at, and look, he can get mad.

It's so easy. I'm not good at trivia. Hey, he can get mad. He can get mad at me if you want to. I don't think he'd get mad at me. You know who was driving Rissillo crazy with the shots? It just wouldn't even like look to pass to anybody. He's the kid from Notre Dame, Blake Wesley.

Wesley. Playing for the spurs of all things, right? And so that Warrior Spurs game was great. And they came down to the wire, and they're down by like two. Wesley comes up. I mean, tunnel vision. Bang, three. And that is like, that's, that, you know,

you watch basketball or Cecil or Sillor, like, shot is so terrible. You know what I mean? Like, you know, it went in, right? But like, what do you do it, right? And so then they come down, Kamenga gets fouled. They go up by one. and of course I'm razzing him about Blake Wesley

I'm like I was like your boy's about to hit the game winner he's like if you ever watched it before it's like he just he just won't even look at you he won't even look at he's just he sees the rim he won't even look at your ass to pass right and I see your boy out there I say he's about to get the game winner on your ass Priscilla so now Kaminga comes down

they make the three throws Warriors are up one at the very end of the game for people that didn't see it Blake Wesley gets the ball dribble straight into traffic, they lose the game. And I said, oh, you love this. Oh, you love this. What was the smile on his face now?

Oh, my God. Was he grinning? It was just one of those. Like, it worked out perfect. Like, he's been telling me, like, this guy will not look at anybody. And then that's how they lost the game. It was great. And he was still laughing at me because I was furious because McClung gave the ball

up to Cominga at the end of the game. I'm like, no, man, you got this whole place buzzing. Let MacCook. McClung's going to go for that there. Let him cook. But by the way, but your original point though, Chris, about the depth of talent in the league, I agree with you. I've heard a lot of people say, well, there's not enough stars for expansion. That's the one pushback that people have, I don't agree with it. I think there's enough stars to expand to 32 teams. But that's what a lot of people who say, no, we're not ready. yet say that we don't have enough stars in the NBA to expand that you'd be depleting that and there would be some teams that would just be terrible if you expand

and I just I don't I don't subscribe to that I think I think what teams need is is hope and direction and I think a lot of teams in the NBA right now have a direction they they feel like they're on the path that they should be I mean look what you are first year doing this podcast together how many teams did I say blow it up right I had so many teams and there's a whole article a list yeah a whole list lottery odds were different than it was 25%, so different circumstances. But now, I feel like with the new odds, a lot

of teams are where they should be, and I think the NBA has enough space for more, for two more teams personally. I think a Vegas team and a Seattle team would be incredible. It's been great to get to do this podcast in person, which we very rarely get to do. And I do want to mention before... I'm doing

a Memphis trip this year. Even if it's not for like a Grizzly story, I'm going to do a Memphis trip. Perfect. And that appetite has really developed being here in Vegas by seeing so many cool people. You want to do more good stuff in person. So like that, that's what I want to do

more. Yeah, to come see some more trips. I should probably restate that without the F-bomb in there, but it was a genuine one that slipped out. It just felt really good. Leave it in or believe it, whatever you want to do. Let me give a quick disclaimer before you. It's true, no, man. It's felt really good seeing people out here, including you, Chris, man.

Oh, yeah, it's great. Every year doing this podcast with you in person is one of the highlights. And we haven't gotten to be around it so long. Nobody's got to be around anybody. So this has been great. And we get our producer Jesse Lopez here in the room with us. It's very cool.

I got to, let me give a quick disclaimer for this podcast because we'll for sure get people tweeting at us. Okay. If we did not talk about your team, if we did not talk about the player that we should have been talking about from your team and what we saw from them in Summer League, it is because we hate them.

And so that's the reason that we didn't talk about them. And it was not unintentional. In fact, I have an entire list of players that I told Kevin, we are not going to talk about these particular participants in Summer League because it would make that guy that's out there happy. And so we intentionally didn't talk about your favorite. guy. And if we did talk about your favorite guy, you're welcome.

So to Quentin Grimes, Trey Murphy, Jared Harper, Keon Johnson. I love Jared Harper and Auburn. Brandon Boston, Josh Primo. Oh, I saw and Scotty Pippin Jr. To all of you. I can't mention, we apologize.

I saw Boston and Preston. Man, that clipper team, they got some, they got some muscle on that team. The clippers, they're going to be really. good. You think? Really good.

They got Paul Georgia, Kalli Lander, really go out on a limb, Kemp. No, no, but I'm saying, no, but I'm saying like, and Norm Powell and.

No, no, but I'm saying, I'm not talking about those guys. I'm talking about even like, Oh, you like the young ones. Jason Preston.

Yeah. Like, the clippers think he can play. Like this year, they think he can contribute this year. And that's a team that just signed John Wall. John Wall,

who on ESPN, was talking about, what are you working on this off season? Spot-out threes. Cutting to the rim, because I know I'm going to be playing off ball. Do you know how good it feels to hear that, Chris? A player willing to adapt and change their game

because they actually look in the mirror? Huh? Huh. Who could learn a thing or two in Los Angeles? Another point card. Who can learn from John Wall? Bro. Who?

Who? Well, I mean, you want to give him two years to think about it? Because that's what John Wall said. He's in Cinderella. He's been looking in the mirror for two years. Shut up, man. He's had a lot of time. Give Russ two years to look in the mirror.

And I bet he'll come to a different. not understanding. No, but the thing is, that's not true. John Wall, I interviewed him in 2020, and he was saying the same thing. Because I asked him about that.

And then he never played again. And he never played. But like, he said the same thing to me that year. He's like, Brad Beale, I asked him Bradley Bales, now a 30 point per game

score. Like, what's your game going to look like to adapt with him? And he's like, well, now I don't need to be the guy handling the ball all the time. I can be the guy, you know,

setting him up. I can play off ball more often. And I was like, yeah, but you've been an off ball player. your hands are on your hips a lot. I remember that viral clip years ago? And he's like, well, Brad's been in my ear about stuff like that,

about showing me what he does, what's worked for him. So I bought it then. It felt genuine from John Wall back in 2020. And I'm buying it now because I don't think the Clippers or John Wall would have wanted to go there unless he was willing to change. So for Clippers fans, you got Preston coming back, a young player who could play right away, really good playmaker. you got John Wall coming in with the right mindset.

What was missing from the Clippers with Kauai and Paul, Georgia was playmaking? And that's exactly what they might have filled with Wall and maybe with Preston. And then maybe Reggie Jackson has another solid year for your team, right? And they're well coach. They've got Ty Luke and they go maybe the best coach in all the basketball. So for that Clippers team, I mean, the Warriors are probably the bet in favorites, right? To represent the West, right? Where are the Clippers?

Do we know that? Where are they in the odds? they're probably third or fourth. Third or fourth. Third or fourth right now, I think. I think it's Warriors, Celtics are up there still. You know, nobody's made the off-season splash that, you know, shoots the odds up. Like, we've had that happen with Brooklyn in the past.

We've had that happen with the Lakers in the past. So what's where a fan duel has it in this order. Celtics favored bucks, sons, clippers, warriors, Lakers, heat, Sixers. So they actually have the clippers as a tied with the Warriors for the outright betting NBA champion favorite. Wow. Yeah. Conference winners in order,

Suns, Warriors, Clippers. So yeah, the clippers are really like right up there with those other teams. I think that's right. Probably not great odds then. Yeah, plus 360 for the clippers to represent the Wests. That's not good.

No, no, it's not. Especially with their injury history and those two guys that you had to depend on. I agree with you. Those are good odds. but they are a team that actually could be there.

Real quickly before we get out of here, because I have to. You might have seen, there was a list that came out of the top NBA jerseys in France. Did you see this by any chance? No. Let's find it. Who do you think was number one? In France. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Top NBA jersey in France. I'll go ahead and tell you this. Frank Millikenna? No. I mean, it's probably like a big name player like Steph, Deonis, Jha. Who's your favorite French player? Victor Webbad, Yama. Come on.

Who's your favorite? Who's your favorite French? I mean, it's... Come on, man. It's... Who is your favorite? I mean, it's Killian and Frank. What?

Those two. No, this guy's a Timberwolf. This guy's a Timberwolf now. Who is your favorite French play? Okay, I mean, my real favorite French player is Rudy Gopier. Okay. Yeah. That's my real favorite French player.

Do you think he'd be number one, right? No. What? No, I wouldn't think that. Why? I said Steph Curry. I said Steph, John, yeah, exactly. And it's number two is John Moran.

John Moran sells more jerseys in France. John Moran sells more jerseys in France than Rudy Gaubert. So I had it right. Ain't that something. Ain't that something? I had it right. How does John Moran sell more jerseys in France than Rudy Gobert? What a world

I had to get that in before we got out of here. I'm a trail to France. This seems like my people over there. So this is France top selling. They don't like Rudy either. He ain't even in the top 10. Really? Are you serious?

No. Okay, I see the list. Look charm. I don't know. Is this site legit? Look charms? Yeah. Well, look the list is.

You know, I know it's legit because I invented it. Oh, yeah. Look, charm. That's my website. I got to go daddy. account last night just so I could do this. This is the top 10. Staff job. Jimmy Butler, Janus,

LeBron, Luca, Tyler, Hero, Paul George, Kauai Leonard, Joel, well, Tyler, Hero, seven. That's gold. I mean, okay, the hero getting more jersey sales than go bare. That's disturbing. Swagger. That's disturbing. Swagger. It's probably those Miami Vice-looking ones.

Yeah, what are the things that wear? I don't know. That's wild. Why is Rudy not in the top 10? They don't like him either. Tyler, a hero? Why is Hero 7? Because he's cool. Rudy Go Bear is cool.

Rudy Go Bear is cool. He works hard. Tyler Hero was walking around. That's not cool. Tyler Hero was walking around. And he was like, Russell was like, you see Tyler earlier? Like, you know, he's a cool guy.

No, he's that dude. He's like, he's like machine gun hero. Right. And I said, boy, you better trade. mark that. He's like, I did. A trade mark. Machine gun hero. They're walking around like machine gun Kelly.

He's cool. He's got swag, man. He's got swag. I guess the French love that. It's going to do it for the show. Rudy not in the top ten. That's a disappointment. Come on.

John Marine number two. Do better, France. I'm going to go show up in France with the Jameridge, Dersia. Be amongst my people. Yeah. That's hard to believe. It's hard to believe.

Not the top 10. That's disappointing. no Batum's in there No Batum, I know. No Frankie, no Frankie Smoltz. No Evinfornier. No Pillion hates his. Do you think?

We don't support their own country. They're like, we don't like French guys either. What does this mean for Wen Banyama? Huh? I wonder if he's going to be in the top ten someday. Maybe. Maybe. All right.

It's going to do it for our show. Check it out from Vegas. We will be back later in the week. Thank to our executive producer Jesse Lopez. As always, Kevin. I will talk to you on Friday. I'm looking forward to. Have a good one, everybody.