The Mismatch - Three Big Surprises, Lonzo’s Resurgence, and an Epic Rant From Verno

Episode Date: November 16, 2021

As the Eastern Conference continues to surprise us, Verno and KOC break down three teams that are exceeding expectations. Then the guys discuss abysmal starts for the Pelicans and Rockets (which gets Verno very fired up), struggles for the LeBron-less Lakers, and many other story lines. Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Producers: Jessie Lopez, Troy Farkas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, long-time writer with the Atlantic Magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Varner. and join me as he does every Tuesday from the wringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Clymouth, Kevin O'Killian, Kevin O'Candyland. Kevin! Burnout! It's Tuesday. What's going on, bud?

Well, this has been a very fun couple of weeks in the NBA and some things that have happened that we did not expect include three big surprises in the East, not the least of which is the Washington. Wizards. The first place, Washington Wizards, thus far this season. And at no time, even through 14 games of the season, did we think we would see number one Washington, number two, Chicago, number five, Cleveland. But that's where we are right now. So let's kind of start with Washington. They had to play without Brad Beale last night as he was gone attending to.

to a death in the family, and they're down 19 to the Pelicans, looks like they're going to lose their first game in two weeks, and instead they come roaring back, win the game, and now have earned their best start since 1975. 1975, Kevin. Like, I can't believe, like, none of those, like, Beal Wall teams, I mean, they're some pretty good teams. I know they had that streak not winning 50 games ever, but they had some good teams.

The 1975, that's an awful long time, but here they are. You're Washington Wizards, 10 and 3 following a 19-point comeback on the New Orleans Pelicans. What do you make of this? I'm a believer. I am. I'm a believer in the Wizards because of the amount of depth this roster has. I mean, before the season, nobody. Nobody could have anticipated one seed.

What are we? Like almost an eighth into the season. Yeah. Nobody could have called one seed an eighth into the season. But the team had good depth. You know, there's talent on the roster you could look at and say, hey, Bradley Beale. Everybody's talking about him as the next guy who could be traded. But you know what?

This isn't so bad here in Washington. But the one seed, Chris, I mean, Spencer Dinwiddie last night, 27 points from him. He's really stepped up his game. He's been the perfect match for Beal on that back court. Kuzma has been really good. Guys like Denny Avdia, after struggling as a rookie, he's really come along in his second season. He's been, Wizards fans, rightfully, are all over this guy defensively.

He's so good on defense right now in his second year. And, you know, offense, more playmaking from him this season. Just up and down the roster, there's no holes. There's no weak links. They got a bunch of good players. We talk about all the time. We talk about all the time having a collection of just good players, which serves you... Neto! Neto is a good role player.

Well, it serves you extremely well during the regular season. In fact, you could be great during the regular season. Where it catches up to you is if you don't have... Like, superstars win the title, right? We know that. And so that's the only time. But you can have really good seasons. And look, they're not going to stay at number one.

but you know you do have to consider are they one of the teams that's not going to have to worry about playing in the play in because this is a torrid start with a new roster which that's what's mega impressive about this you've got a collection of these guys that is thrown together and usually that kind of thing takes time you're getting used to playing with each other and everything else instead they've started off 10 and 3 to start the year which gives them just this outstanding head start on to possibly getting into one of those. That's what we never expected. We thought they could be in the mix maybe as the, you know, within the 10. But yeah, like five. The six is a different deal. Yeah, we were talking like five to 11 range. Yeah.

But even then, but even then you're still, we still had Brooklyn. We still had the bucks. We still had the heat. We still had. Philly, like all those things we had ahead of them for a hundred percent, right? And they could, they could still end up there. I mean, you know, record wise, they're only two and a half up on Philly for the seven spot right now.

That's right. I got it. They still could slip down there and all that. But to your point, they're giving themselves a little bit of cushion early in the season and they're doing all of it despite the fact Bradley Beale has not been the same guy he was the last two seasons. He's averaging 23 points right now, down from 31 last year. He's shooting 25% from 3, down from 35%.

He's shooting 47% from 2, down from 54%. His numbers as a score are way, way, way down, despite the fact that he's taking nearly as many shots per game. He's knocking to the free throw line nearly as much 4.2 times per game to 7.7 times per game last season, eight times the year before that. So his free throws have been almost chopped in half. His efficiency is way down to start the season. And despite all that, they're still at the top of the Eastern Conference.

So if Beal gets back to his last two years, maybe they could continue sustaining it. There's a chance. We know that things change rapidly within a week's time, two weeks time, especially here at the beginning of the season. As you mentioned, you're just two and a half games up from who is in seventh place right now. So that can get flipped. But we do need to take a moment just to appreciate what they have done. This is their best start in 47 years, which, interestingly enough, how's this for some synergy? The 1974-75 Washington Wizards led by Wes Unseld.

And now this team is coached by his son, Wes Unseld Jr. And just diving into the numbers, this is how they've done it. They've got the fourth best defensive rating in the league. They've led the league in opponent field goal percentage and opponent three point percentage, which that one will probably go up a little bit. There's some variance that's always involved. Teams are only shooting 31% from three so far this year. But Kyle Kuzma, who I got to be honest with you, I end up reading Kyle Kuzma quotes more often than you would necessarily think. This guy is a really good talker.

Oh, yeah, he is. And he says, I think a lot of it comes from us new guys coming in. Well, how's that for humility? No, we're defensive-oriented players, but also Wes Unseld does a great job. I think a lot of times in this league, what separates good teams and bad teams is defensive schemes. When you come here the first day of training camp, we want to be a top 10 defensive team. Okay, how do you get that? Wes puts us in great situations and there's really no error out there.

You know what to do. If it's step up, near side, we know what to do. Same thing. They're locking and trailing. We know what to do. That just clears up a lot of thoughts you may have on the court so you can just play freely. And, of course, the last three years, they have finished 20th, 29th, and 27th in defensive rating. And that has been – and, of course, they cut the water off completely for the Pelicans last night,

went on a 14-0 run, and then turned that game. round completely. And then one guy, though we've mentioned, you mentioned Dinwiddie, you mentioned Bill, you mentioned Avigia, the Netto, all these guys. Let me tell you something. This is the Montrez-Herald of the Clippers. We got some blowback last year when we talked about this. Laker fans and some of the Laker media were mad that we were saying Montrez is not the same

guy. And he wasn't the same guy. We got some crap for saying that. He wasn't the same guy. If you watch him now, that is the Mantres Herald that was an absolute game changer for the Clippers and won six men of the year, you know? Didn't we say Harold would get potential D&Ps in the playoffs? And he did. And he did.

But this year you would not say that because he is back to playing at the same level he was prior. He's been absolutely outstanding for Washington, just outstanding. And I thought that Kuzma quote, that Kuzma quote is 100% true. Yep. West Onsel Jr., the guys on this team execute his plan to perfection. They always seem to be in the right place. They always seem to make the right decision. They all play hard.

They all play together. And so much of that, you know, it relates to the guys you have in that locker room, the personnel. But a lot of it stems from the coach. So for him in his first year, isn't he a coach of the year candidate in year one? Oh, there's no question. Look, if the season ended today, he runs away with the award. Oh, no doubt about it. First year's a head coach.

Speaking on Harold, he has shot 81%. This is going into last night, okay? 81% in the restricted area, which is the second most, second best mark of 59 players with at least 50 restricted area attempts. He has the third highest free throw rate amongst all the players with 100 field. goal attempts, and he's got a true shooting percentage of 71%, which is the highest of any player that averages 15 points a game. And they have that unit that has he, Netto, and Avidja, they have outscored their opponents by 22 points per 100 possessions. They have been absolutely devastating. And it speaks to, as you're talking about, the depth, right? I mean,

they bring off a bench. They're benched. They're bench you. unit, you know, that was, that was the trick with that old Clippers team. That bench unit would flip a game and kill you, right? They'd bring in Lou, they'd bring in Harrell. Those guys were both up for six men of the year, and they would flip the game. They would bring so much energy and everything else. And this looks like, you know, they got the Montrez that we didn't see much of when he was playing for the Lakers last year.

And you got to look back at that trade. And my God, I mean, you see the benefits of the wizard and you see the detriment of the Lakers. And this is a move that clearly, you know, it was reported that they weren't really going to do this. Westbrook called the owner, Russell Westbrook calling their owner was the best thing that ever happened to the wizard.

Seriously. Yeah, no doubt about it, man. I mean, what you said just reminded me, like when I talked to Bradley Beale before the season, I wrote a little pre-season wizard story about how they're at the crossroads. Beale is going to be the next star who gets dealt or he's going to be committed long term after this year

because they show so much promise. So far it's looking like the latter. They're showing promise. But I asked him something that they're, didn't get into the story about Dinwiddie. I was like, I said to him, I feel like on paper Spencer Dinwiddie's a much better fit for you for reason X, Y, and Z. And I mean, what do you think about that?

And he goes, well, it remains to be seen. You know, I did it with Russ. We played a whole year together, and he was amazing for us. I learned a lot from him. He's an amazing leader. He's an amazing on-ball presence. With Dinwiddie, like, we need to prove this, you know, that what we can do. And it all remains to be seen.

is a very honest answer. He didn't give a cookie cutter, you know, like, oh, yeah, it could, you know, be amazing with Spencer. He was honest, just like he was with everything he talks about. And so far, I feel like it's a better fit because of all the other pieces around them, too. Like, these guys don't have weaklings on defense. Every player, like when they have, regardless of their five-man lineups, all five guys out there typically can make a play with the ball in their hands

or they can hit threes at a competent level. Dinwiddie can play on or off the ball. He can take more offensive responsibility when he needs to. It's just such a better balance on this roster. Like from 1 to 10, this team doesn't have weak lengths and up top with Beal with Dinwiddie. You could say they're missing a second star, but doesn't this seem like our team, like that's all they're missing?

They have a lot else of what you want on a contending team. Look, they are going to be able to withstand injury, understand guys being out and COVID protocol stuff all that they will they'll be able to deal with that and yeah west until junior kudos them i mean the best started in 47 years for that team um you know the tommy shepherd putting it all together i mean granted it was some unusual circumstances but you know yeah yeah team no it ended up being a unbelievable return for them out of that deal right you got remember they flipped john wall into that yes wall until westbrook and two all of us I mean.

Crazy. That is miracle work. And Al Wall is still sitting the ear out. It's so strange what's going to there. Oh, I will get to that. We'll talk about Houston later. I saw John last night. He was in street clothes, right?

Just hanging out. What was he wearing, Chris? What brand was he wearing? I have no idea. They're in Gucci. I wasn't aware of what brand he was wearing. The second surprise is, of course, the Bulls. We've talked about them more this year.

but a resounding victory last night. You know, you wondered what it was going to look like when they had to play some small ball, maybe a little bit more with Vucevich out. And, you know, I guess they were playing Tony Bradley there for a minute. DeRosen, I think he's third in the league in scoring right now. He's unbelievable, dude. 38 last night.

And they just pasted the Lakers. I mean, part of that is the story of the Bulls, and part of that is what in the heck is going on with the Lakers. It is beyond just LeBron not being there, right? Because they still have Anthony Davis. They still have, you know, their other guys are healthy. They even got Horton Tucker back in the mix. You see Vogel really searching for lineups.

At one point, he started Carmelo, obviously last night. You know, he's got Horton Tucker in there, and that reaps some benefits offensively. But just that team has been just a mess. And the Bulls went in there and just lit them up. And DeRosen looked like the best player in the world. And like I said, he's, I mean, it is right now, I think it's Durant Curry-Dorosen. Is that right? On the scoring leaders?

I believe so, yeah. Scoring leaders in the NBA. I mean, he is third right now. And the much maligned signing when everybody was like, what are they doing? Like, who are you bidding against? Not here, though, Chris. Not here. This ends up being just a, I mean, not a home run, Kevin.

This has been the grand slam of all grand slams, this DeRosen signing. I think we said it at a time. As long as there's chemistry, buy-in, and this team's actually. plays defense, it's going to work out. They have talent. Defense was the question with the Bulls. And they have an elite defense. Offense wasn't really a question as much.

It was just a matter of how well it would fit. And with DeMardo Rosen, look, Chris, the last three seasons, he was third, third, and tenth in isolation efficiency when he scored or passed out of an isolation, third, third, and tenth. Up with names like James Hardin. up there with names like Kevin Durin and Carrie Irving. It wasn't on TV. And that, exactly.

And that wasn't San Antonio, a team like average at best last three seasons. And definitely not a team with the amount of shooting around him and talent around him that the Bulls have today. So, Demar de Rosa, he left San Antonio a better player than he left Toronto when San Antonio traded Kawhi Leonard for him. And now in Chicago, just everybody's starting to see it. And, like, he's a better guy. He's a better guy. This season, again, he's near the top of the NBA in ISO efficiency.

He's running, pick and roll. He's hitting threes more often. He's playing harder on defense. I mean, I'm a full believer in DeMarta Rosen. And how about the Lonzo Revenge game? Oh, my. Lonzo is so fun this year. He was unbelievable last night.

Like, unbelievable. And, you know, now you're seeing him for the first time in like a true, like, winning environment. And it's bringing out the best of him too. Yes. You know? Yep. And this is why it's all worth believing. It's not like this comes out of nowhere.

We've seen Lonzo do this before, haven't we, Chris? Yes. Just not in a winning, not in a context like this, but he's done it before. Well, and it also just, you know, there's something about when you are, when you're going to the gym, every night and you got a good team like it brings the best out of you and the flip side is it can really drain you out when you know you're you're going back to the locker room with another loss and then you're going to head to another city and probably get your ass kicked again and then you're going to get your ass kicked again i mean it's very difficult for a guy to be at

his best under those circumstances and so it you know he's one of those where you're it's like, hey, wait around a little bit because the people that held on to their Alonzo ballstock, those people are reaping major benefits right now. Because this is the guy that when they got the second pick and they took him, the Lakers, we thought this is the player that we thought. And it just took a little while. It's taken a little while, but you watch him last night on that Lakers court, no less. And if I'm a Laker fan, I'm sitting there going, my goodness, look at him now.

You know what I mean? Like they were there at the very beginning. It didn't look like this. But now, I mean, if you didn't know any better, you would think that's one of the best point guards in the whole NBA. Yeah. And he's going to have a chance at like making all-star teams. And that was the best game of his season on offense. Yeah, you know, 27 points, eight assists, seven rebounds, just absolutely sensational.

I mean, this dude's hitting 44% of his seven three-point attempts per game. He's, last three seasons, see, he's turned himself into a good three-point shooter under, you know, Fred Vincent, the Pelicans assistant coach, goes to New Orleans for two years. He meets a coach that, you know, helped change his career. I talked to Alonzo, I think it was in Brooklyn a couple seasons ago, and he basically, like, it's not off. you hear a player say, yeah, it's because of that guy. Yep. He's like, yeah, Fred Vincent is the reason why I'm shooting well. It's like he's pointing the finger at him.

But I love guys like that. Yeah. I love guys like that because that is, yeah, that's just work. Yeah. It's work. You can credit the coach, but you're putting in the work. Yep. Yeah.

He put in the work because it's just you got to go and you got to shoot a million balls. Yeah. You know what I mean? you need to change your lifelong habits. That's right. And he slowly but surely was doing that. Back in L.A. it started.

Then in New Orleans it accelerated. And now in Chicago, he's not only shooting well off the catch, but he's doing a lot more off the dribble, too. So Alonzo's 24 years old, Chris, 24 years old, first year of a new contract with the Bulls. This guy might not be done getting better for that matter. Well, and the other thing, Kev, is this.

It's the story of the guy, as you say, where you can continue to get better, but also, you know, the lifelong habit thing, what is so hard for so many guys that I have seen in the past is to change what got them there. They're sitting there going, hold on now, like I'm a million to one shot. I got to where I am doing what I do.

It was good enough to get me here. It was good enough to get me drafted number two. It was good enough to get me this huge contract. right and but if you want to be even greater than you know you can continue and yes it did get you to that point but if that's not the finish line for you right that's not the goal it's the same thing we see all the time where it comes to and you always worry about contract years and then contracts which is there is the sense of accomplishment like you've you've done all this your whole life to get that $100 million or to get that $90 million or maybe $50 million, whatever it may be.

Or even just the rookie deal, like millions of dollars. That's right. That's right. In some guys, it's the rookie deal. I was a first round pick. I'm set for life if I just hold on to my $10 million bucks. Yeah, if you're making $2 million salary. Right.

You've made it, buddy. You've made it. Great job. And so then it takes the, it takes, and I don't want to say special, but it takes a different level of desire to not be okay with that. And self-awareness, too. Self-awareness and a willingness and openness to change. It's just human qualities.

It's human qualities that would apply to any job or stage of life that you're in. And Lonzo Ball, you know, to change. That's slingshot mechanic, the shots that he used to have. Oh, my God. Those are the weirdest looking jump shot I've ever seen. And now you look at them and it looks normal. It looks normal now. You don't even remember the way he used to shoot.

That's right. It's normal now. And that takes a lot of hours in the gym, man. It really does. You get a very Vlanzo credit for turning himself into the player that he has. And I don't know, dude, with all these guys on the Bulls, Caruso getting 30 minutes per game now, he's just doing more of what he's always done just for more time on the court. Vucovich is accepting a smaller scoring role, but he's still facilitating. he's playing best defense of his life.

This team, again, like we just said with the Wizards, there's really no hole on the roster. Well, and I think Caruso is, I think he's third in the league in steals. Lanzos in the top 10 or 15 in the league in steals. I mean, so that's the other thing. Not only do they, have they been playing very good defense this year, they get themselves extra possessions. You know, they turn you over.

It's amazing. I'm doing a Bulls video this week for The Void. And just watching through a lot of their clips and their games and prep for it. It's crazy how often they get a deflection and it immediately, instantly turns into a transition offensive opportunity. There's no delay when they get their hands on the ball with making a kickout pass to someone sprinting up the floor. There's zero delay. It's just a joy to watch this Bulls team. They're so freaking fun to watch.

The other big surprise, we talked about the right now, if you just looked at the standings as of this morning on Tuesday, the Wizards won Bulls 2, and then the other huge surprise is the Cavs, who have, you know, were now 14 games, 15 games into the season, and they are sitting at 5. Who knows how long it will be sustainable, but so far this has been one of the really good stories

in the NBA of a team that we did not necessarily would think would be amongst the most competitive teams, but they have been more than competitive. Defensive also, right? Like going into last night, they were sixth in defensive rating. And I think 11th in net rating. And of course they've lost Colin Sexton.

And now this great story hinges on this news that's going to come out today. there has been no news as of us recording, but last night, after what was probably his worst game of the year, certainly offensively, worst game of the year, Evan Mobley appeared to be in real pain

as his arm kind of got twisted and he went out of the game and now there's going to be an MRI on his elbow. And, you know, if you're a Cleveland fan, you just sit there and, and honestly, just not Cleveland, for just NBA fans. He has been an absolute joy

and one of everyone's favorite league pass seekouts but who knows who knows what happened with the elbow and here's hoping that he's going to be okay. Yeah, you hope it's like five to six days. Yes. Not five to six weeks. I know. That's what you hope for here.

We'll get that news later today. But regardless of the results of that, You know, regardless of the fact, Colin Sexton is out with a meniscus tier, regardless of the health and safety protocols with some of their guys. Jared Allen missed the game against the Celtics with an illness. Regardless of all of that, this team has a heck of a lot of talent. And I think you can say that about so many teams across the NBA right now. There's just a lot of talent in the NBA. But the one thing I'll say with Cleveland is that it fits together.

It fits together very well. And you can't say that for all these other teams. Some teams they have talent. It's like just doesn't fit. There's guys that you know are going to have to change with Cleveland. Mowgli and Allen, those two, Chris, are so, Mowgli can defend on the perimeter. Allen or Mowgli can be their sole room protector on the floor.

Allen has become an elite room protecting presence. You've got the perimeter guys. Garland looks more than a young point guard. He looks like a seasoned veteran out there. O'Coro can defend as a young guy still coming along offensive. but like you have a foundation for Cleveland and some of those guys could pop. Yeah. I'm really into it.

Yep. And you know, I watched them and during the quarantine, you know, J.B. Bickerstaff came on with us who I've known for a long, long time. Good guy. Big fan of Larian ants like me. Yeah. When I watch them, I see, you know, I think, and I'd have to talk to J.B. about this, but I think there was something, I think there's a couple of things.

I think that, you know, what he did and having Mike Conley serves. There's just some stuff that I watch. When I watch that team, I see some Conley stuff that they've got Garland doing. And with the Mobley thing, you know, people forget this. But when Memphis fired Fisdale, Bickerstaff took over. So I covered his team. and I see a lot of, you know, these flash post-ups and some of this stuff that he used to run this stuff for Jaron Jackson. When Jaron Jackson was, you know, was the guy everybody thought was going to be the next big thing.

You know, I think that probably having Jackson and figuring out how to use him effectively, because I see some of the, literally the same exact actions used with Mowgli. Mowbly is just such a ridiculous talent. He really is, and he's longer than all hell. But they're kind of like the same, you know what I mean? Like he had this same kind of unicorny player. A long and length of who can shoot and handle. Figure out how to use him.

You know what I'm saying? I mean, well, you saw that fourth quarter he had, not against last night's game against the Celtics, but the prior one. Yep. He hit, you know, pull up two-pointer. He ran the floor hard, scored inside. He made passes. He had turnaround, fadeaway jump shots from the post.

Mowbly showed off all the goods that he has in that fourth quarter in that other game. With him, dude, I don't think you could have anticipated him being so skilled offensively this early on in the season. Even though he's coming off that 0-4-11 with the elbow issue, I didn't anticipate him to look so good, so early on offense. I'm impressed. Yeah. And defensively, he is so far ahead of the curve. It's ridiculous. I mean, we've got a couple guys in this year's draft class.

Scotty Barnes, too. Yep. I mean, so it's very unusual to have rookies look like veterans. Mitchell? Mitchell? Yeah, Mitchell as well. I mean, God, these other guards, it's like releasing a pit bull off the bench. I mean, I'll tell you what.

Like, you could even say Jonathan Kaminga, he's had some great defensive. possessions the other night defending against de Rosen. That's the only way he's staying on the floor. Yeah, you're no kidding. Yeah, exactly. But it's like even someone like him who looked raw in the G league, it's like, wait a minute. He's already looking pretty good with the opportunities that he's given.

But yeah, there's a lot of good defensive players in this year's for K-class. Well, you know what's crazy is because. Herb Jones, too. I have to mention herb Jones. Herb Jones, too. Yeah, Herb Jones. Herb Jones was knocking down threes the other night. It was the damnedest thing I ever saw.

He's fantastic. Look, what's crazy is we have seen, you know, Cleveland have this early season surprise. Obviously, Washington's been awesome. We talk about the Bulls. But, you know, once you get down to Cleveland and we talk about how they've been in the mix, at least through the first 14, 15 games, you start to realize, Kevin, that this East, Detroit and Orlando are like the only. ones that are not like going to be in the mix.

There is going to be 13 teams fighting for these, you know, 10 spots for 6, locked in, four more with the opportunity to be playoff teams. And there's 13 of those teams so far this season. I mean, it is, it is shocking. But the depth of that conference. And these teams are really going to be beating each other up Because as you mentioned, you know, at the beginning, you say, hey, who knows with the Wizards? It's two and a half games over the seventh seed.

But it's going to feel like that all year. It's going to be an absolute dogfight. And honestly, I don't think it's just like Orlando and Detroit are the only ones that are, you know, with really bad records right now. I think that's going to what that's going to look like at the very end of the season. I think you can have all 13 going for it. Yeah, I mean, just look at the teams ahead of them. You know, like you said, Orlando, 3 and 11, Detroit 3 and 10. Yep.

Indiana and Atlanta are both 6 and 9. Milwaukee is 6 and 8. They're the team on the outside looking in at the top 10 right now. You'd expect the bucks to get better. You'd expect the Hawks to get better. The Pacers have a heck of a lot of talent on their team. Even if they finish under 500, they're going to be one of those teams that finish under 500 and they're a tough team to beat every night because of the amount of talent that they have.

And they've had a tough schedule so far. Yeah, you're right. It has been tough. And ahead of them, like, who slips? I know. Toronto, Boston, Charlotte, Philly, New York, Cleveland, Miami, Brooklyn, Chicago, Washington. Some of those teams maybe they get closer to 500, but maybe it's just a lot of them around 500. I know.

It's just this big clump of teams between like five and 12 that are near 500, slightly above, slightly below. It could be a crazy race between like the six to get a lock in the playoffs and the 10 to at least get an opportunity. Like that could be really close between like five and 12ish. Well, and it really did. If things continue playing out because I don't see who falls off a cliff.

I don't either. And I just don't. Except for Milwaukee of that group, I don't see a team that could maybe propel itself to the top four. Well, and they are a representation of. you know, Adam Silver's and the competition committee, their dream, which is, you know, not having teams being non-competitive when they smoothed out the odds, right? So they took the incentive away, in many cases, from being totally horrendous because you

are just so counting on luck. Your chances of getting, you know, the franchise savior. are just not what they were. You've got, so you've got that smoothing, and then you have the playing tournament. And it did, it has worked for that, right? It's working, man. We saw it last year. And so now, I promise you, Kevin,

all 13 of those teams think they can be in the top 10 and are going to want to be in the top 10. Once they expanded it to 10, I think this is now what they, you know, I know some people have complained about the playing tournament, but in terms of league-wide competition and teams wanting and being encouraged to be competitive, this is, I mean, this is as good as it gets when you've got 13 to 15 teams in one of the conferences. And you see that and you juxtapose it to the West, Kev.

We got nine. and even the team that's 10 right now, Sacramento, they're talking about firing their coach, for God's sakes. And then you get past that. It's five that you have a very hard time seeing how they're going to be in the mix, right? Like there's at least five teams in the Western Conference, and I'll rattle them off just for point of reference. Oklahoma City, Minnesota, San Antonio, the Pelicans and the Rockets.

it's hard to see those teams being in the mix but I mean look I just told you Sacramento's if they didn't win last night they're saying Luke Walton could have been gone now they had a resounding victory but when you start talking about firing a coach

14 games into the season I mean the writing's on the wall as if it weren't already but I mean why is that story even out there seriously. Why is that story even out there? Kind of sucks for Luke Walton. I'm not saying that the guy is deserving of keeping his job, but it's like,

just fire him, dude. Just fire him. What does it matter if they, last night, they beat some rat team. Who cares? Like, if you want to fire him, fire him. If you don't believe in him and you don't think he's the coach of the future, fire him. But this Vivik who wants so badly for them to end their, 15-year playoff drought,

which I did not know until this morning when I was reading, it will pass the Donald Sterling Clippers. Wow. If they don't make the playoffs this year, it will be all alone as the longest amount of time a franchise has not made the playoffs. That's incredible. The Sterling Clippers.

I mean, and they had lost four in a row, you know, last night. And it said the Kings, this was from Sam Amick, with the Kings 5 and 8 in the midst of four-game losing streak heading into Monday night's game at Detroit, which is, of course, last night. Sources say the third year coach's job status will likely be in peril if the current slide continues. And so, you know, and of course they bring up that, you know, they've got Alvin Gentry on the staff. I'd imagine they just, you know, slide them up into the head coach. Yeah, they just have, they just have Alvin Gentry take over. I mean, with Luke Walton, a lot of Kings fans understandably wanted him to get the boot over the offseason or last season for that matter. And Walton has, I think, two years, $12 million remaining on his contract.

And this offseason, Montaigneur had called that a basketball decision for them to keep Luke Wall. And I think it was a financial decision based off everything. that I've heard about Vivek and ownership the last, you know, three, four, five years. I think it's a financial decision, not a basketball decision. But maybe now letting him go would be the basketball decision. We'll see what happens with that. But for Luke Walton, a lot of Kings fans have wanted him gone for quite some time now. But I don't know.

I mean, to the overall topic, Chris, with just the amount of depth, the amount of teams that are competing here in the West, the flip side of the advantage of the playing tournament is the fact that, that a team like Minnesota, despite being four or nine to start, instead of, you know, they are only two and a half, or one and a half games back from Sacramento for that 10th spot. Maybe Minnesota at some point this season makes a big move. Maybe they get Ben Simmons. Maybe they're going to play it out.

They're going to play it out. Yeah. So is San Antonio. They'll play it out. They get off to a poor start. I think San Antonio might want to go the other way. They won't know. that Popovich is not going to oversee losing every night.

I mean, he would walk away first. He might be walking away anywhere. Yeah. I'm saying he would walk away before he does the throw out, you know, his bench and lose every night. Trust me. I'm not, I'm not saying intentional losing. I'm saying you can't help it.

You can't. Yeah, I'm saying you can help it. Yeah. That's what I mean. Hey, they've been trying so far. Yeah, try as you might. still lose. I'm saying they're that type of tank. Fair. They haven't had

they haven't had your guy, Yacup Portal. You know, so their defense is gone to hell. They're missing him. That Zach Collins hasn't come back yet. He's got his new contract. But he is going to make his season debut at some point. He will be back. I look forward to seeing Zach Collins. Yeah, I know you do. He will be back

just a matter of how long he'll be back. But anyway, point being is that a team like Minnesota, they're garbage so far this year. It's frustrating to watch them. Defense they're an eyesore. DeLo, not really working on on offense with this fit. You got cats.

I saw them in person last week. They're just my turn, your turn. Dude, did you see the clip of Anthony Edwards starting in isolation and cat just walked off before he even took the shot? That's how they function. It's whoever's got the ball. That's going to stick in my mind

and I don't feel good about it because I'm a cat guy. I hated seeing that. That's a loser play. That's a loser play, to walk off like that. Oh, my God. It's whoever's got the ball takes the ball. Yeah. That's what they are.

They're my turn, your turn, team. And that just can't, it cannot fly. I mean, you know what? I wish it was cats turn more often. I've said this probably every single pod we've recorded the season. How is he not shooting 23 times per game? I don't get it. I just don't understand, Chris.

Is that a cat problem? Is it a coaching problem? But you've got this guy who's a seven-footer that can hit 46, 45% of his threes who can do stuff off the dribble, who can pass, and you have him shooting 16 times per game. It doesn't make any sense. Cat is so much more offensively talent than that. He should be shooting over 20 times per game,

averaging nearly 30 points per game. He's the most underutilized star in the league. It doesn't make sense to me. It's been like this for years with different head coaches, which is why I'm saying, is it a coaching issue? Yeah. Or is it a cat problem. Yeah, right.

Well, look, I'll tell you this. I goofed when I saw him in person that, like, oh, he's turned into Sam Perkins, because there are an insane amount of possessions that he's just like jogging three-point line to three-point line. When Edwards is doing an ice, they're just running. Walking back on defense. Yeah, I'll just get on back there.

Stay in the half court and make a play. Yeah. That's a loser play. Let me just speak on this real quick, because I saw the Rockets last night in person. Now, I have covered, this is, I believe, season 21. I've covered of the NBA. I have covered

multiple 20 win teams, which is just, you know, an abomination. That must be painful. It's terrible. That team last night is one, it's on the short list of the worst NBA teams I've ever seen. Like the full on,

the full on tanking sixers are obviously always going to be in the, always going to be in the mix. But this was a disgrace. Like, I'm not kidding. It's a disgrace. And I don't, I honestly, you know, look, we had our fights about tanking over the years. But I know you will agree with this.

Like, look, you have some young talents there, right? Whatever you think about Kevin Porter Jr. There's no question. Jalen Green, outstanding talent. Christian Wood is very good still, you know, in his prime talent right now. And they've got some players. Jayhont Tape had some moments last season where it looked like he could be more than just a regular dude in the NBA. Like they got some guys.

And certainly, and then, of course, they drafted Schengu too, right? This, I promise you, and I'm telling you this from experience people. This, it's borderline criminal what they're doing to these kids. It is the absolute worst thing you can do player development wise. It is truly the worst thing. They are throwing them out there without a point guard. Like they do all of this in the, in the, in the,

the spirit of player development. and it's like your players develop into the biggest bunch of pieces of shit I've ever seen in my life. Like that's what they develop. That's what they develop into. This helps nobody and it actively hurts them. And God bless Jalen Green. I hope he could turn out to, you know, live out what his destiny will be. But I promise you he will be done no service by playing in this environment.

They are horrible on both. ends of the court, they have absolutely no, like, veteran guidance that's out there on the court. And they go from city to city getting their ass kicked. At one point last night, they were down by like 40 points in the game. And I'm like, what is this? Like, this is ridiculous. The other night, two nights ago, they're playing against Phoenix. Chris Paul's frigging their players.

Like, they're the damn Washington generals. Like this team What they are doing And the craziest thing is last night One of my One of my buddies is walking through The arena at halftime And he runs it

He's like He's like, who is that guy? I recognize that guy And you know who it was? And this is crazy I don't know if anybody knows this It's freaking Tillman Fertita He had

And somebody from Houston told us He had flown directly in and then he shows up and he goes to the game and his team's losing by frigging 40 points he was there last night witnessing this but i am a believer like there's players i have covered over the course of their careers that i am convinced their career goes a completely different direction if they were not put through you know if the sting of losing was not taken away from them completely and they were able to do whatever the hell they wanted to do two in particular there's no question i will forever believe rudy gay's career would have been

different and that O.J. Mayo's career would have been completely different if they were not in the environments that they were in where you get this false sense of who you are within the league, you get this false sense of, you know, what kind of player you are, how many points you can score, and you have no idea how to function within a winning environment in the same way that you have functioned when you're losing every single night, right? You have to play differently. And I think that those are learned behaviors that are hard to get over because you get this false sense of where you are in the league.

And then beyond the disgrace of what I think the product that they're putting out is and how this actively hurts their young players, seeing John Wall there at the game, I had no idea he was traveling with the team. And you go and you read the stories, and it's like this idea of like mentoring, like the young guys or whatever. I don't even know what the hell, what cockamamie thing they're giving, right?

They're paying you $44 million. What in the hell is this? And how is that anything but absolutely poisonous? to show young players in the league that you are now, this is your veteran example is a guy, your mentor is a guy that doesn't play and has got paid $44 million to not play. And this is your mentor?

This is who you want to show the ropes of the NBA to your young player? This is an outrage. Like, you know what, you know what John Wall should be doing for the Rockets? Playing basketball, because they don't have a point card. They put, their back court was Kevin Porter Jr. and Jalen Green last night. Like, how about if you want to develop players, how about you let them play actual NBA basketball where you could have a point guard out there that's kind of get everything in order and running the show? And how that, you have that, Hell do you expect anybody to ever, not like anybody's going to trade for that contract anyway, but you have zero chance when the guy hasn't played basketball in a year?

Like you really have no chance. Like what meeting of the minds came together to just say, you're not going to play, you don't want to play, we don't care if you play, but we, you know, be a mentor to the young players on this roster. Like what kind of tips are you given? and he's just traveling around watching him lose by a thousand every night. He's not, there's nothing wrong with him. He's not in a wheelchair. He can play.

He averts 20 points a game last year. He can play. He can. Like, you've got your veteran player that makes $40 million sitting on the bench being an eyewitness to young players getting murdered. every night, every night. And that's the agreement? Like, everything about that thing is vomit-inducing. Everything about that Rockets organization, the way it is run right now,

and the decisions that they have made makes me want to puke, truly. It's disgusting. Chris, first of all, that was a legendary rant. Absolutely legendary. I had a hold in my laugh. I had a hold in my laughter multiple times because I didn't want to ruin it. Second of all, for Houston here, it's going to be interesting to see if there are teams that try to pluck away Christian Wood to make them even worse. Just throwing that thought out there.

I know. Pluck away Christian Wood, Daniel Tice, you know, a good veteran in Tice and a good young player in Wood. And thirdly, Chris, for Houston Rockets fans who are feeling the pain of this season, and it must be gross. I mean, it's not like Jane Lee. Well, here's a hard part, Kevin. Here's a hard part. You can develop talent and be somewhat competitive and have real veterans on your team that are showing guys the ropes and how to compete. Sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. If they were starting, John Wall, Eric Gordon. and Christian Wood. They still think. And then you've got, they would, but they could at least compete. They could compete. And that is a proper environment for a guy to learn how to play within the NBA.

With the real NBA players. Totally, totally. I totally agree with you, which is why, like I said, with that second point, it could get worse. I mean, a team could go for Daniel Tice, could go for Christian Wood. Can you imagine Jay Sean Tate on a winning team with his individual defensive ability, with his playmaking. I mean, Jayshon Tate on a winning team would be a heck of a lot of fun to watch.

They have some talent that teams can try to pluck away making Houston even worse. For Rockets fans who are dealing with this, you know, you still got Jalen Green. You know, he hasn't had that many spectacular games. He's had some good moments. What did you think about him last night, Chris?

I think that my opinion on Jalen Green is that I hope that this does not affect him in a very bad way. the way they're playing. Is this like Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville where you can't really assess Trevor Lawrence with that show happening there? There is anybody that watches this kid though,

there's a couple of things. He is top, I mean, he is top 1, 2% of athletes. I mean, he is a, and he is a skilled, skilled guy. That guy, again, I hope this doesn't ruin him. he can be it's not going to ruin him it's not going to ruin him i hope not i hope not i'm saying not ruin in the sense of you know he's not going to be able to be an NBA player he's going to be a

bus i'm saying ruin in the sense of not be able to reach his max right because of the environment that he grows up in as i've told you many times it's like putting a kid in a horrible school it is the kid that gets to go to the great school, he's got every advantage in the world and he's got a great chance of reaching his potential. When you put the kid in a horrible school, yes, the unbelievable

the unbelievable ones are going to succeed no matter. You can put them anywhere. Like Joel Lambie. It doesn't matter what environment, they are special and they're going to be able to succeed no matter what. And they're going to come out of it just fine, right? but the majority of are going to be negatively affected in a way and you will never see what they

could have become had they been in a nurturing and good environment at the beginning of their careers. And so I will say this, if he is handled well and they can become competitive and he can learn, you know, really good habits rather than the ridiculous habits that they are, you know, allowing right now, He could be one of the five best scorers in the NBA. I believe that wholeheartedly. He could be absolutely a top five scorer in the NBA. He is a good shooter. I know it hasn't dropped as much, but like the form, the form's the form.

And, you know, learn the NBA game. You know, it's obviously a little fast right now. But you take his talent level, his skill level, his athleticism. is a shot's not screwy he could yeah I he could be one of the best scores in the world yeah truth I believe that so

I say all this and tell you that that's what I think well that's what I mean for rocket fans that's what you need to hold on to you need to hold on to Jalen Green you need to hold on to the progress that you see from a shengoon or maybe Josh Christopher

maybe those are the guys you need to worry about more in the context that you're talking about and this lewd this severe losing context. But ultimately, the other thing is, like, just look at the 20, 22 draft. If you're a Rockets fan, think about Chet Holmgren, think about Paulo Bancaro, think about Duran and Hardy and all these guys at the top of the draft, specifically Holmgren and Bancarro, that if you pair one of those bigs with Jalen Green, just spend a little time

dreaming about that and you'll feel pretty good to spend all the losing. And I read this this morning, just for people to understand, this is going to. This is going into last night, which again, they were down by 40 points at one point. The Rockets have a starting lineup that has scored 81.9 points per 100 possessions. 25 less than the league average. 25 less. Can you say that sad again? 81.9 per 100 possessions.

And they keep rolling it out there. It's unbelievable. And what lineup was that? The starting lineup. Okay. It must be from a different site, but I have 98.7 for them on NBA.com, which is still so much lower than the average. It's probably just a different way of measuring it. But regardless, their last, their last, an offensive rating by a wide margin.

This was actually from, let me pull this. Where did I get this from? This is from, this is one of the notes from John Schumann's power rankings that he does, where he kind of like has some stats on each particular team. And that was that was one of the, that was one of the stats that he had in there. And you know, and he had some stuff about how Tyson and, and, and wood has been. Bottom five net ratings in the NBA, Houston minus 10.7, Detroit, Orlando, New Orleans, minus 8.9,

OKC, minus 8.4. And then it leaps up to minus 4.2. So strictly in terms of net rating, there's a pretty clear divide with the bottom five. And then everybody else, you know, it's a subtle drop off. Lakers, Lakers 23rd. Brutal. They said, uh, Wode,

Wode said during while we're recording that, uh, LeBron James could return Friday against the Celtics. Celtics, Lakers inject some life into that. That'd be really good. Celtics have been very good defensively. They have. They've been much better. They've been much better.

A couple quick hits. Luca hobbled off last night. Let's keep our fingers crossed. Chris Dap said he talked to him in the locker room and he said, I'm going to be okay. So let's hope that it's not some big deal. He was hobbling, though, off last night in that Dallas game. So let's hope it's nothing serious. The Anthony Davis ejection that took place last night and there gave against a bulls.

Like, they should reprimand or punish Scottwall, the official in that situation. That is ridiculous. And if there was ever some referee who deserved getting cussed out, it was him. For those that did not see, Anthony Davis's shoe fell off. And I thought when I pulled up the video, because I was like, all right, I got to see this. What the hell, Anthony Davis getting ejected? Like, for what? I go and watch it.

I'm thinking he's probably. just taking his sweet time, being a dick about it, whatever else. He immediately gets up and is just putting his shoe on and tying his shoe. And Scott Wall lets the bulls just, I mean, it just lets him inbound it and go the other way to have a five on four. And it was just bizarre. Like, I don't, I don't understand. Like, maybe there is some, you don't get to stop the game for losing your shoe.

That's your own fault. But in the context of the way What was going on right there It was like the play was over He's on the ground He gets his shoe He's putting his shoe back on And it's like

You took too long I'm giving the Bulls the ball And I thought he went as fast as he could have Like it's just goofy man That was some power trip stuff And I'm that's what I was going to say power trip I'm glad Anthony Davis cussed him out He deserved to be cussed that

It was a power trip for sure. And you would hope there's some level of accountability from other referees from the NBA, from Adam Silver. Stuff like that is just, as you would say, Chris, goofy. Goofy. We talked about Mobley earlier. It's been good to see after the first couple of games were a real struggle. Cunningham's gotten going.

He's had some great moments. Had like a 25, 8 and 8, I think, since we last spoke. It hit clutch shots too. Yeah, big time. And going to the bat. Like, he's got an arsenal. And so it was nice to see him get going because there was this wave of, oh, did they make a mistake by taking Cade Cunningham number one?

You know what I mean? Like we're just 15 games into the year. Just relax. Yeah, right? It's so early. It's so early. Cave Cunningham, though, has gotten going a little bit. And that's been nice to see for sure.

And then the last thing was the NBA handed down a $250,000 fine to the Minnesota Timberwolves. welcome to the NBA A-Rod. Evidently A-Rod, like the team went down there, met up, worked out, ate dinner. You can't pay for everybody to do all this stuff in the off-season. And so welcome to NBA ownership, Alex Rodriguez. Somebody give him the rules. Now, again, for A-Rod, $250,000, it's as we know. But still, I mean, can somebody get you?

give the brother the rules? Like, is nobody going to say, like, hey, hey, Rod, we can't do this or we're not allowed to do this? Or, like, how does it even happen? I don't. The bulls are up next. Huh? The bulls are up next with the Lonzo ball stuff.

Oh, is that coming down the pike? Yeah, I mean, it should be coming soon. It's just a matter of how severe the penalty is. They should announce it the same day that the Pelicans fired David Griffin since he's, since he've added everybody out in the first place. Yeah. Allegedly. Allegedly.

You talk to anybody around the NBA, everybody thinks David Griffin's. Everybody does. Jake, Jake Fisher from Bleacher Report had a report that David Griffin's could be in the hot seat as well. Oh, yeah. Why? Wonder why. His team blew a 19-point lead last night. It looked like they were finally, you know, going to maybe get the.

things going. They pasted the Grizzlies when Ingrams are turned on Saturday night. And then they had that 19 point lead last night, but then they blew it. But that's got... I hope the Lanzo and Griffin News come out the same day. That would be quite ironic.

It's a shame about the Pelicans. If you're Zion, do you even come back? I mean, yeah. You want to play basketball? You do? Do you want to play basketball in New Orleans? Well, that's a different conversation. But you want to play basketball.

It's just a shame. That's all. I'm just disappointed by it. It's not like they don't have young talent, Chris. Brennan Ingham's talented. Trey Murphy's talented. Josh Hart's talented. Herb Jones is talented.

Nikiel? Nekeel's got talent. You know, you get some veterans with talent. Jonas Valanchunis. Herb! Hey, you got Herb Jones. It's not like you don't have good players. Good talent.

It's just all a shame in New Orleans. I just feel bad. And you get a 300-pound star who can't say healthy, who may not want to be there. It's just a shame. Whether it's Griffin running that team or it doesn't matter who's running the team, they're going to figure it out fast, man. They can't let this thing blow up more than it already is at this moment

at 2 and 13 to start the year without Zion. After saying he'll likely be back by opening night. It's a shame. I feel bad for Pelicans fans. Well, isn't that a positive note to end on? Let's on a more positive note. I played Halo Infinite yesterday, Chris. And?

Halo came out. Surprise release a month earlier than people expected. It's free to play multiplayer. I've been playing Warzone like crazy in the last 15, 16 months. I don't know Halo. Is Halo like if my son says I want to play Halo? Is there like a bunch of blood and guts and cussing in it or no? No, I know, not as much like Call the Duty Warzone.

there's like yeah yeah i know i've heard it halo i don't think the characters cuss at all but they don't blow each other's brains out like you don't see like splatters and stuff in halo maybe a little bit a little bit but but not like you know i like when you kill somebody in fortnight or something they just kind of like evaporate or not not like it i wouldn't say it's gory it's not a gory game at all but with halo infinite i would actually be curious if someone your son's age or a little bit older were to play Halo Infinite about what they think about it. Because to me, when I played Halo Infinite, it felt like, and I mean this as a compliment, a dated game.

Oh. It felt like Halo 3. It felt like Halo 2 with just some modern elements to it. So for someone like me, 31 years old, playing with all of my friends yesterday, it felt like we were playing Halo 3 15 years ago when we were back at high school. That's what it felt like. the game the gameplay feels like that it lacks some stuff that a lot of modern first person shooters have so for someone your son's age i'd be curious if they're also still into the gameplay

of halo infinite compared to like all the building of fortnight or like the fast pace battle royale of war zone yeah i'd be very interested in the opinion of someone who watches it but but i but i i don't know how much i can play multiplayer these days i'm i love battle royals too much the big open world games, Chris. But the multiplayer in Halo felt good. I was encouraged from day one playing it. Well, there we go. That's a good one to end on. Thank you

to our producers today, Troy Farkas and Jesse Lopez. Kevin, I will talk to you on Friday.