The Mismatch - Time for a Raptors Reset? Plus, the Good Vibes Magic and Other Rising Teams.

Episode Date: December 20, 2022

Verno and KOC begin with looking at the Thunder-Blazers game from Monday night (02:30 ). They congratulate Damian Lillard for becoming the all-time scoring leader for the Blazers before discussing the great season that Shai Gilgeous-Alexander is having for the Thunder and diving into the Hawks' struggles. With the Raptors on a six-game losing streak, the guys debate whether it’s time to blow it up in Toronto (21:52). What could the Raptors get for Pascal Siakam or OG Anunoby? The guys also discuss the Bucks' defense against the Pelicans, why Anthony Edwards needs to be the guy when KAT and Rudy Gobert return, Anthony Davis’s injury, as well as both New York teams, who are looking way better after shaky starts to the season (41:39). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Connor. Wait a minute, you're not Chris Vernon. No, Kevin, sadly, I'm not as cherubic or as raspy as Verno, but it is I, Jay Kyle, man. And folks, basketball has been and continues to be so very good. That's exactly why Kyle and I are hosting a brand new basketball show on a brand new podcast feed, the ringers NBA draft show. We're going to have you covered every week as we go in-depth and deep dive in hopes of answering an ever-important question in the NBA. Who's got next?

Whether it's an international phenom like Victor Winbenyama or the G-League Scoot Henderson. Or stars from Overtime Elite like A. Men Thompson, as well as a full-blown swarm of talented prospects from the promising 2023 NBA draft class. For sure, Kyle. And we're also going to get into players from the college ranks because this is a loaded class. for us to discuss prospects rising and falling, and we're going to revisit and redraft recent draft classes and get into how the league's evolution could help inform what's valuable in a prospect of the future.

This is a podcast for a fan of every team, whether you're losing and have high draft lottery odds or you're looking for sleepers later in the draft. We're going to be covering everything in the months to come, so please make sure you follow and subscribe to the Ringer NBA Draft Show. And hit us with those five-star ratings. Welcome to the Miss. match. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor,

aka Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Colmcounter, Kevin O'Compter, Kevin O'Compin, Kevin O'Contin, Kevin O'Contin, Kevin O'Cris'clock. It's wild. Almost. This is going to be the only show we do this week and we got a lot to get to. Only Tuesday next week as well. We'll do Tuesday of next week after the Christmas games have been played. It was quite the eventful evening last night. There was all kinds of NBA games going on. It's very interesting stuff that we're going to play off of today on the show. A game that I probably would not have guessed we would start with,

but had some pretty great storylines involved with it, was the Oklahoma City Thunder Portland Trailblazers, game, which first saw Damien Lillard become the all-time leading scorer in Trailblazers history surpassing Clyde Drexler. Pretty cool. It is cool. And when I went, you know, anytime something like that happens, I immediately go to, like, basketball reference.

And so, because they say, he has surpassed Clyde Drexler. And I'm like, okay, well, like, what's the first? rest of the list. I got to tell you, Kemp, I wouldn't have gotten this. I would not have gotten this. Lillard Drexler, number three,

Lamarcus Aldridge. Hmm. Number four, Terry Porter, and number five, C.J. McCollum. Wow. How about that?

Huh. And then the rest goes Cliff Robinson, Jerome Cursey, Jim Paxon, Jeff Petrie, and Michael Thompson. That's the rest of the list. It's kind of crazy because when you think about, like, they had that late 70s championship, and I know that their best player was Walton.

He didn't play very long there. But, you know, they had that run in the late 70s. Then you had that whole jailblazers segment of time that took place. And like none of those guys are, represented in this top 10 list. I mean, like, it's kind of crazy, you know, if you're thinking about famous Trailblazers or if you were going to name Trailblazers that come to mind,

clearly Drexler's at the very top of the list. But it just speaks to how long and how successful Lillard and McCollum were as a duo because I did not realize CJ's fifth leading score in Blazers history. Yeah, and I'm sure at some point Dame will move up to number one on their all-time assists leaderboard as well At some point in his career Because this is a guy that

Sure as hell seems like he's not going anywhere, Chris, right? Like it's so cool that we have a player In today's league that He's just stayed loyal To the city of Portland And you hope for him that's sticking through Some of the, you know, the bad times There was short bad times

I made the playoffs almost every single year for a while, but they didn't go far. But it seems like, well, first of all, dame's all the way back. Oh, yeah. Dame is all the way back to being dame. And the rest of his team, granted they lose last night. Okay, see what we'll talk about.

But the team's much better right now around him. Grant, Gary Peeton, not even back yet. They just got to find a better center who can move, who better than Nirkich. They have a lot of good pieces right now. So I don't think they're at a position where they're like borderline blow it up. Should they trade Dame? No, they're not anywhere near that.

They have a lot of talent surrounding Damien Lower. They should be trying to add. And then Shaden Sharp, if he's able to pop in two or three years when Dame is still at a competitive age, I mean, we'll see what they turn into. But at the least, they have a lot of talent to build with and compete with right now. Well, and this is something that I think should be lauded and praised because Yeah. In this day and age, you get so many guys that do bounce around everywhere. There's something just incredibly special about someone who grew up watching Damian Lillard.

You know, there's there's eight-year-old kids that are now, you know, either in or out of college, you know, that they have, and they've been, like, he has been their guy for that long and to play for one franchise for that amount of years. And I saw Stapmews posted last night. They called to Mr. Blazer because it comes up that he leads the franchise in scoring. That's the all-time record as he surpasses Drexler. He also leads them in points, threes, 20-point games, 30-point games, 40-point games, 50-point games, 60-point games, 5-3 games, and 10-3 games. He holds all of those for one franchise, and it's incredibly special.

Now, they did fall short last night on a game-winning shot by Shea Gildes-Alixander. I couldn't believe Simons deflected that inbound of game. It was unfortunate. He thought I was going to him and just reached up for it before realizing, oh, this isn't for me. It's for the other flame thrower guy in our back court. Look, and on the other side, SGA, have a season. God. Unbelievable.

They should have, hey, they should have brought two with him. Yeah. You can't let him one-on-one. Last night, the NBA Twitter account, they tweeted out some of the clutch shots that he's made throughout his young career. It's amazing how many he's had. Like this season, he's had two or three.

Throughout his career, though, he's had a bunch of clutch jumpers, and this is such a young player still, right, for Oklahoma City. And I think for them, man, it's cool to see him hit a mid-ranger for the wind, though, because that's where he's just been a dominant force. It's inside the arc. I mean, we've talked about it this season, Chris, with SGA.

He takes only three shots behind the arc per game. Everything's from mid-range with pull-ups to stepbacks. These quirky little moves getting into paint to draw files and finish with his left or right hand. Everything's inside the arc. It's a shame that Oklahoma City isn't on national TV all the time because doesn't he feel like the type of player that would really resonate with a lot of fans from different eras of basketball.

Like he's a throwback, but also a futuristic type of player, is a likable personality because of the way he plays. I mean, it's such a at-rim, mid-range style. It's not like most stars today where you see a lot of three-pointers. He's just such a cool player. I wish O.K.C. could be a national TV more. I wish they were great right now so he could get the love and the attention that he really deserves as a player.

Let me just say, though, there is a benefit to the other side of that, to being the guy that's not on all of the time, and to being the guy that is like the cool I know about him, but the general public doesn't necessarily know about him guy. It's kind of like the band that's coming up. And then the band, as it becomes huge, then people are like, yeah, yeah. So there is something. But that could have been the last two years?

And this is the year he pops, right? Yeah, but there's something that goes along with that. Okay. And the other thing is, all anybody talks about is your good stuff. That's it. They don't talk about anything that you do bad. They don't talk about the game that you came up short. They don't talk about, if you don't have a good game, nobody cares, nobody talks about it.

You're in a very good position when you're coming up like that. that and you're not the topic every morning on the debate shows and you're not what everybody is watching every night. I'm just saying there is a good to it. And I do think it can benefit you even more in terms of your public perception or stature if you're not always. There's like a mystery to it, right? There's a mystery to it. Just like I was thinking about this the other night with that Yokich thing. Nobody's watching that. You guys, like, it almost, it doesn't even look real. It's almost like, it's one of those, like, urban legends that you can't believe that

happened. The 47 and 20 and 10, or whatever it is, 40, 27 at 10. Like, like, Will it's scoring 100 points. Yeah, right. It's like it didn't even happen. The people there at the game saw it, but that's it. Yeah. You know?

And then you see it come up on like, 20s. Twitter or something, you're like, wait, what? And I do think that it hasn't, it's hard to say, it's not hurt Yokic, not being on the last couple of years. And I would argue he should, especially the league should get behind a two-time MVP more. But Yokic is a lot harder to find. So I mean, I think that's, I mean, the Yokch stuff is a totally different category, considering their RSN and the challenge and finding a Nuggets game when you're living in Denver

or the greater January. Yeah, but I'm talking about national TV. I know, but I'm just saying like that's a totally different category with him.

Yeah, I, I, I, all I'm saying is not like, I just think SGA is one of the players who would have mass appeal. And, and because there's not the exposure,

he's not, doesn't have the level of stardom that he may otherwise have. I mean, I think that's the difference between NFL and NBA's. There's just so few NFL games. Every single one is of the utmost importance.

They're all on Sundays, Mondays, Thursdays. I mean, obviously NFL's doing some Saturday games and all that too, but like, I don't know, I just, I feel like a player, like SGA is ready to just go boom as a player, but OKC's not right there yet as a national TV game.

Well, it would be if they had chat. Ready to go boom as a team? No, I'm just saying, like, they would be the interest in watching them. I mean, they were at the very top of my list. I mean, they do. Because I didn't know. Chris, they do have Poku, though. Oh, stop.

it. I'm aware. I'm aware. You're right. Chet would definitely elevate their defense. He'd add a new element to their offense as well. But like there's still, there's still a young team, though.

Let's be fair there. Well, yeah. No, and I'm not even talking about the basketball. Just the intrigue of, is this guy going to be awesome? Yeah. Look, we saw him in Summer League. We were like, hold on now.

Is this guy going to be awesome? Yeah, he isn't intriguing talent. Right? Speaking of, two of those teams that are like that, maybe not Atlanta as much, they're on TV because of Trey, but Orlando, you've got to seek them out,

and if you have seek them out, not only do you have the bowl thing going, but you got Franz Wagner, you got Paulo, you got, it's a fun team that has actually gotten to winning recently, and it looked like they were about to pull another one off last night where they go on this like

13-0 run at the end of the game. Fultz drives in... Atlanta, they don't want to play offense. They just pound the ball, letting the clock run out. No. Kivar and Harris just up in Trey's Grill,

right? Like bothering him. He got calling for that BS file with like 90 seconds left. Well, now you've got Fultz driving to the basket, maybe the worst defense on a game winner I've ever seen in my life.

Awful. Embarranted. He literally made a layup. to like to in a game winning shot and if it weren't for Paulo fouling dejante murray you think that was a fall yes he hit his hand he would have lost the challenge because he got his hand he did I mean maybe the replaying I think I was watching the

the Orlando broadcast I don't remember seeing him hit the hand maybe the Atlanta broadcast showed that yeah they he hit his hand and and I mean I thought like it was obvious. They got people on the bench that are watching that stuff and you only had one time out left and I think you would have lost your challenge.

And I don't know why Bankero put the ball on the ground for the game winner. Like that's a catch and shoot. Come on. Yeah. I mean, he didn't get the shot off anyway. Not only did he miss a shot.

He didn't get the shot off. A lot of weird stuff at the end of that camp. Yeah, it was. And honestly, you know, the magic just went on this crazy run. But the magic team is fun the watch and they got some intriguing young talent, say the least. That Atlanta team on the other side, like, it's just gone the other way.

It looked at the beginning of the season, I know you were very interested in Trey playing off the ball and Trey moving off the ball and, you know, running off screens and this and that. It's just, if you watch them, it's just devolved right into my turn, your turn. That's all it is. It's terrible to watch. It's horrific to watch. It's bad basketball.

It's disgusting, and it's not going to work for them. But this next stretch, Chris, they got bowls on Wednesday, pistons on Friday, and then this is their run-up games. Pacers, Mets, Lakers, Warriors, Kings, Lakers, Clippers, Bucks, Pacers, Raptors, Heat, Mavs. That takes them right into the middle of January. Eight of those games that I listed are on the road, they're going to stink. I don't think they're going to do well throughout this stretch. I think all the issues we're talking about here,

the stagnant offense down the stretch against Orlando, running the clock down, your turn, my turn offense. By the end of this, that team, especially Trey Young, they're going to have to look at themselves in the mirror and say, is this who we want to be? Is this the best version of ourselves?

That's what I predict will happen. Will they end up acting on it? I don't know. I have no idea. The start of this season has not been encouraging. The front office and ownership made that the Jante Murray trade. appeasing Trey who wanted the Jante Marie with the hopes, and this is true,

that they thought Trey would evolve his game. He has not. And maybe that'll happen over the course of time, but it hasn't so far the season. They started out the year. I wrote about this like three weeks into the season. His off screens were double or triple, what they were last year,

with the amount of times he was coming off of those actions. It's back down to his career averages now. It's just back to when he gives up the ball, and to Dejante Murray, like if they, you know, he dribbles the ball up, throws him to the Jante Murray on the right wing. Trey stays like 35, 40 feet away from the rim like a Hardin did. Remember those images that still images of Harden years ago? Yeah.

You said what he'd stand it like the logo. That's what Trey is doing. And when you do that, you see what happened in last night's game where Orlando is pulling the help defender off a Trey Young or off of the Jante Murray and saying, hey, we're going to show two towards Trey and take away a drive towards the middle of the floor. And by the way, Trey's not shooting the ball well. He's one of the worst, he's one of the least efficient deep three-point shooters

in the entire league right now. One of the worst three-point shooters on all the basketball, period, but any shot he takes. So I think defenses have incentive to do that because of the way he's playing, but also the way he's performing. So I think for Trey, the key thing he's going to do is change his habits. That's where it begins. And that can allow Nate McMillan and that coaching staff to actually revise and improve the offense because there's no movement, man.

Not even from Trey or D'Jantzant. Like you can point the finger at the stars, but also there's no actions off ball. You watch Atlanta, it looks like a stagnant Houston style high pick and all over and over offense. That's old news, man. Defense is know how to defend that. So, like, what are they going to do? What's McMillan going to do? What's Trey going to allow him to do?

That's going to be the thing over the next month that I'm watching as they lose. some games on the road against some tough opponents. I'd be surprised if they come out of that stretch with a winning record. Well, one of the huge problems, Kev, is you watch them, just the juxtaposition between those two teams last night in particular. So different. How one communicates, how one's giving each other high-fives, how they're all talking.

And then, you know, it's a lot. Hawks fans right now were saying, we won the game. Oh, I know. But, I mean, you gave up, look, you got fouled on a bailout or else you lose because you gave up an open layup. And you were up 12 with like, what, like a couple minutes left. They gave up a 13-0 run to the magic. The end of that game, the stagnant offense was, if I were a Hawksford, I'd be freaking out.

It's a tough watch. Run a set. It's a tough watch. Oh, my goodness. But yeah, you're right. Orlando's guy. some good vibes, man. They're fun.

Yeah, and Markle Foltz, looking good. He's looking good, Chris. He's shooting 47% from three. It's a small, little tiny sample size. You never have. Every year,

every year after his weird, whatever it was early in his career, he's shooting 80 plus percent for the free throw line for now three years in a row. Yeah. He's shooting well from mid-range and now he's shooting well from three.

I'm just saying, something to monitor. The jumper might be back. That's all I'm saying. Something to monitor. It's early. Santa Barclay is coming to town and he's delivering $20 million in gifts this holiday season to all Fandul customers. It doesn't matter if you've been naughty or nice.

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In New York, visit MDGamblinghelp. In New York, call 1, 8778, Hope, New York. In Wyoming, call 1,800-2-2-470-0. In West Virginia, visit 800 gambler.net. Philadelphia won its fifth game in a row last night. You and I both expected Philly to be good this year, and so a team that has Joelle Embed, who is, I believe, leading the league in scoring right now,

winning five games a row is not that big of a shock. They've gotten hardened back in the fold. and they took advantage of the Raptors last night. That's the team that they beat. And I know that you had some things to say about the Raptors this week who have been going the wrong direction to say the least. Kind of talked about them a little a few shows ago because I had going on with Zach Lowe

and one of the things that he said in passing was that there's a lot of buzz out there about the Raptors and which direction they're going to go. we don't want to close the door completely, but they're two and eight in their last 10, and to the answer of, you know, there were 500 at the time when we spoke, which direction is this going to go?

At least recently, it is going the wrong way. And you thought maybe they should be having different goals for this year than they maybe walked into the season with? Get the dynamite already. They're 13 and 18. They're only two and a half games back from a bottom four record. The offense looks totally disconnected. The team looks broken.

There's no trade for them to make that can bring them to contention. They were flirting with Kevin Durant over the offseason. Kevin Durant is not available. You know, when I tweeted the other day about that potentially blowing, and I Raptors fans say all we need is a Shigilges-Alexander trade. SGA is not being dealt. Who else? Like, tell me the other player that the Raptors could trade picks and young players for

to get that thrust them in their contention. Who is it? There's nobody on the horizon. I would argue that this is a team, and this is the decisions you have to make if you are running the team. Why are we bad? Obviously, one of our best players for Advamp lead is shooting under 40%. And you can go through player by player. but I would say, because you and I talked about this a lot last year,

the Raptors were not very good, and then what happened? They started playing seven guys, eight guys a night. They cut down, everybody's played 40-something minutes a game, and they end up winning a bunch of games down the stretch, and then they end up in the playoffs again, right? Not a team that had like some kind of high ceiling, but they won a lot of games because they were playing a bunch of guys, and they didn't have enough debt.

Well, now you look this season, they've played 31 games so far this season. Freshes and Chua's missed 12, or has only played 12. I'm sorry, so he's missed 19. Otto Porter, who was a get in the off season to add to that depth. Oh, so now Otto Porter is a difference maker. No, I'm just saying he's played eight games. He's played eight games. See, Occam's played 21.

Long time, listeners of the mismatch, no, the auto porter throwback. I mean, look at their run. Master Keev. Otto Porter's better than what they run out there. Yeah. You got precious. Okay. Otto Porter's not turning this team into a championship contender.

That's all the Saiujiri has ever cared about. It's precious. It's Precious, Otto, Seacum. You've got Van Vleet and Trent who both played 25 out of 31 games. But what's on the other side? Like for Toronto, they don't necessarily need to go full on. We're going to be bad for five years blow up. it up. They still, they can trade

one guy or two guys and just be a little bit worse. How is it blowing it up? I mean, it is blowing it. How is making a trade blowing it up? If you trade Pascal Seaccom and O.G. N and O. If you trade them for good players? No, if you trade them for future assets.

I believe in that same exact exact Lowe's thing you reference that he said it could approach Donald and Mitchell levels if they were to trade OG and N and that's true. Everybody wants OG. Everybody loves OG because O.G could fit anywhere. The Same thing with Pascal Seyakum, which is the challenge and even suggesting that Toronto should blow it up because they have guys that everybody wants, including Toronto. Those are good players, man.

It's just for them, they're in a position right now, Chris. Van Bleet and Trent can be free agents in 2023. They have options for 2024. Seacum and O.G. will be free agents in 2024. It's about how do you want to build this team moving forward with Scotty Barnes as your young guy? Is the path with being a little bit worse this year and having a better opportunity at a Victor Wenyama or a Scoot Henderson or an Amen Thompson or whoever it might be?

This is a great draft. Is that better? Or is it better to maintain all of your current core, including Van Vleet, and compete for a playing spot and then probably get roasted in the first round at best? I mean, what path is better for Toronto given the fact that they don't need to go total full tier down. They don't need to.

Who would you look at and you would say, okay, you want to read to or whatever. These are my guys. Scotty Barnes and everybody else is available. By the way, for longtime listeners out there, they could go back to the beginning of this. Don't even say in 2017. Every week I thought you about the Raptors. Every week. And you know what they did?

I said they should break up De Mardo Rosen and Kyle Lari. You said they should blow it up. That this team didn't go anywhere. If they ended up getting Kauai. Yes, and guess what happened? That was a perfect storm when they got Kowler. Yeah, that was a perfect storm. Tell me, the next injured superstar that's available with a weird injury on an expiring contract

for dirt cheap from a franchise that doesn't want long-term assets. The point is we never know. You don't, you're right. But that is such a rare occurrence that happened with Kaulei Leonard. is such a rare thing. You know, it's even more rare? Trying to be kind of bad and getting a number one pick. Yeah, having an opportunity to get a Victor Wenam.

It's not even like people can say 14% chance at Victor Weniam. Yes, only 14% chance of best. But if you have a chance at Wenbinaima or Scrood Henderson or Amend Thompson or one of the many other top draft prospects this year for Toronto to build with Scotty Barnes for the next eight to 10 years, to me, that's just a more appealing path. It's nothing against OG or Seaccom or Van Fleet or these guys that have helped win games for Toronto for years. It's just about what's the best path moving forward. And to me, this is a team that's in a position where they're approaching, they're not here yet. It's not quite obvious yet, but they're approaching

that point that they were with DeMarta Rosen and Kyle Lowry, where it's stagnant, where they're stuck in the middle, and they don't have a path to getting better because this team's about to get very, very, very expensive once those OG and CACM extensions come up. Again, Van Bleed extensions as well. You'll be stuck. So that's the issue that I'm seeing coming soon. You don't think they can't trade those guys and get better? Yeah, right now.

Yeah, no, they can't, but they could actually trade them and get better. That's what I would say. Yeah, maybe. But for who? That's what I'm saying. So Katie's not available. SGA's not available. Who?

Carl Anthony Towns from Minnesota? Be serious. I just don't know who the guy is that is on the horizon for, them to trade for it now. Damien Lowe is not going to become available. Who is it? It doesn't have to be an individual player. Sometimes it can be a collection of. I mean, I just don't see. Pretty clearly, we have seen teams in the past move from the middle. In fact, maybe a B gets unhappy in Philly in a couple of years, that type of thing. I don't think it always has to be a superstar necessarily. I think that we have seen a lot of teams

that have moved from the middle to the next level. In fact, that's traditionally what has happened. These teams that are winning, you know, maybe they're right at 400 or a little under 500. Yeah, but the thing is, Chris, is most of those teams... Most of the time, those acquisitions, like the Kauai-Demar trade, can we acknowledge that that was a very unique circumstance?

Sure. That they get Kauai Leonard for DeMara-Dorosen. Most teams across the league were offering picks, young players, like Jalen Brown picks. Like that's the type of concepts. Most teams were discussing unproven players and picks. That's the way most star trades happen. That's the way most teams that go from the middle to contention make deals. They trade picks.

So yes, maybe they could trade Siakum and picks, but the receiving team would probably prefer the picks and young player based package if they're going to make that type of deal. That's just historically the way it tends to happen. Well, and I would look at, say, like, Scotty Barnes and say, all right, if I'm going to commit to this, then how, what is, what is my best case scenario? Should they have moved in for Kevin Durant? Building around. To your point, Chris, should they have traded Barnes and picks for Kevin Durant last summer?

I mean, nobody wanted to do that, right? Well, I mean, the Nets would have considered it before Scotty Barnes. The Raptors didn't want to trade Barnes. but would you have done that? I'm not out on him. Considering what we're talking about, like I'm saying that they should move away from the Seacum OG

Band Bleet, very expensive future and gamble on this great draft and Scotty Barnes and retool for the next five to ten years. Like building, building Yeah, and that's just where we... And it's fundamental. We always break away on this.

I don't like me being terrible. What I'm asking you, they don't have to be terrible. They still have a lot of talent on their team. What I'm asking you is, like, you're saying they should keep with the Siakum, OG, VanVee, VanVee, Court. Okay, no. I didn't say that. I said you don't trade it for Flatsum.

You trade it to improve yourself. Yeah, but you're not getting, like, Zach Lodge just said, that OG deal would approach Donovan Mitchell levels. And that's true. A Seacom trade would approach Donovan Mitchell levels. Like, if they were to make those moves, they're not getting nothing in return. So, like, don't frame it like that. No, I'm talking about draft picks. And so what did the Mitchell return was they got marketing.

They got. Yeah, it might be some young players back in return. Like, it's impossible to know what the pieces would be. They got the draft pick from Kansas and they got some draft picks, right? Yeah. I mean. And, of course, they would have to get salary back. That's even more challenging midseason.

Yeah. But do you think the path that I'm proposing? Should they at least be exploring O.D. trade? Should they at least be exploring CACM trade? Should they listen to offer? Okay. Of course. Again. So we're not too far off, really. Yeah, I'm just not about chasing that you ain't winning the be worse than Detroit, be worse than San Antonio. You don't have to be worse in these teams.

Don't get me wrong, Chris. This isn't a bottoming out path that I'm proposing here. This is just let's try to be not a playing team. let's try to be in a position where we have the fourth, fifth, best odds, right? Like maybe they end up third worst, fourth worst, considering... I just don't think it's that bad to be a play-in team. I don't. I think there's a lot of teams that have moved up. Not this year.

Not this year. You look at the teams that have moved up from the play-in. Phoenix was a play-in team. And they got Chris Paul. They weren't a playing a team anymore. The Clippers were a play-in team, and they moved up. They weren't a play-in team anymore. When's the last time, Chris, though, that I've been this adamant about blowing it up?

for multiple teams maybe like one team the last couple of years after the draft I mean the polls a couple weeks ago I mean yeah that's what I'm saying this year I'm saying

like so but like this year's different just like it was different when the draft lottery odds were 25% for number one that's changed that changed everything that's why I haven't been

Mr. Blow it up the last two three years but this year's different when it's Wenban Yama and Scoot Henderson and we saw Brandon Miller have a 40 point game over the week and Amman Thompson and Cam Whitmore and like just so much talent

at the top of the draft, particularly Victor Wembe and Schuette Henderson. Like a Scoot Henderson, Scottie Barnes combo for the next 10 years, my goodness, dude, like how those guys with their playmaking together, their size differential, how they would be Barnes, if he's able to figure himself

on defense next to Wembe, the defensive duo that those guys could become. It's absurd to think about. And maybe it wouldn't have, maybe they end up with the seventh pick. Maybe they end up with the seventh pick. And that could happen. And it's just a dude.

It could just be they end up with the seventh pick. That would be likely. Yeah, it would be most likely statistically, but that's the path you take where it's do we want five future first round draft picks or do we want to be approaching paying, you know, $50 million a year for Pascal Seaccom and $40 million a year for Gene Anobie. That's the way I'm thinking about. I was wondering this the other day.

Do you view football the same way or no? I don't really watch football too much anymore, so I don't even think about it much, which is a shame because I used to watch NFL as much as I watch NBA. So I wish I could give you a better answer there. But I wondered if you did feel that way. I mean, I grew up a Patriots fan.

I know. And I saw New England give up on guys sooner than any fan ever wanted them to, and it often was the right decision. Yeah. No, no, no. I'm not talking about giving up on them. I'm talking about like in the position like right now

where you could make the playoff, or you could just decide, all right, we're just going to lose that so we could increase our... Well, there's no lottery. Well, there's no lottery. It's totally different, yeah. You still could get a better player, right? You still get a better trap pick for more games. No, I was definitely for the worst teams in the league.

Like a L, like a win could sometimes actually be an L. Would they win those games late in the year? Yeah, right. I mean, it depends. Every year is different. I think the NFL is totally a different thing. Well, and honestly, all these drafts are love. And also, NFL is a different sport, too.

Like, you can get great... For sure. There's 53 guys, unless it's a quarterback. You can get great franchise players at any point in the draft or as NBA historically, you can get them at any point in the draft, but the majority of them come at the top. The guys who win you championships are putting you in a position to actually have a chance to win a finals, most of them come at the top over the course of NBA history.

Not any... It's been changed. It's changed a lot. Recently. I mean, with Booker, with Janice, you think about the guys that have been. Yeah, of course, like there's exceptions, but like the majority of them come at the top. Yeah. Curry and Thompson were lower.

Dremont was lower. Yeah, Boston had two high ones. I feel like we're not as far off as you think, Chris, with Toronto. Yeah, I mean, I don't look. Like, the fact that you acknowledge that they should at least explore trades. Let's be honest, I don't care what they did. They can do it. They're a mad team right now.

And so if you do something with it, I just resent, like, trying to bottom out to try to get better lottery odds when you're not even going to be close to getting lottery odds. Why do that anyway? That's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying at all.

And by the way, like I said, they're only two and a half back right now from those 14% odds. No, when I hear Blow It Up, I think lose intentional. No, blow it up means trade your trade to get worse. what's a difference? I mean, there is a difference.

Losing intentionally is more of the art of tanking. It's like the positioning of your players on the floor, your substitution patterns, the lineups you're putting out there, the guys you're resting, how your coach is positioning his players to maybe focus on development. Like, right?

Like trying to get guys, like we're going to play through so hard, you're going to get 20 shots to, week. Right. Like that type of thing. There was a game a couple weeks ago where So Han was killing it and he pulled him.

You see the one-handed free throw he had the other day? Like Dennis Rodman like? I mean. He's practicing like form shooting in actual games. I don't understand it. I guess it looks. It's all about development right now. By the way, one of the quick thing, if Toronto were to go that path, let's just say they do.

Boy, oh boy. what could Siakum or OJ do for a contender? Like they could be the final piece. On the flip side if they were to trade those guys, like they're not the guy. And I love Seacom, he's not the number one on your team, is more of the two or three. But if those guys were added to any of the contenders out there

willing to give up four, five future picks, a bunch of future assets, to me, like the window's open. The window is open. I covet it, OG. for Memphis. Oh, perfect fit.

So would you be willing to give up four future first round draft picks to get over there? What? I'm just asking the question. I'm going to go to. It's OG and Ninovi. Okay.

Come on. What are we doing here? Yeah, but what about in the playoffs? How many All-Star games has OG made that I missed? It doesn't matter. What do you mean? It doesn't matter.

Is it does? It's irrelevant. He's not one of the best players in the league. Yeah, It's about... Slow down. If you're...

Playoff situation for the Memphis Grizzlies, if you're able to run out front court with Jaron Jackson Jr. and O.G. Ninovi for your small ball lineups when Adams isn't on the floor.

I love it. It'd be incredible. I love it. And is that worth like four picks in the 20s, which is what you hope? For you? I'm like saying on your side of things.

With the way they draft? Like you're saying, you're saying for Toronto, they shouldn't trade OG for these future picks that might, not be anything. And I'm saying you won't give up these future picks that might not be anything. I don't. That's just too many for O.G. and an O.G. and an Obe. Well, if it's Donovan Mitchell, we can talk like that. Chris, Chris, you are in a position to win a championship.

The Memphis Grizzlies are the best team in the Western Congress. I want you to realize, I want you to realize where you guys are now. Let's just be clear. They're there without it. They're there without that. A. You can always be better. A. B. B. let's just be clear this is where we part ways enjoy John Conchar and Dylan Brooks getting those minutes in the playoffs Desmond

Bain is going to be back Kevin I know what I'm saying 25 points a game you guys can win a championship would you get up those would you give up those picks for CACM look would you give up those picks for CACM Chris why

to win a title I don't think you realize the position you're in. Okay, look, you don't have to give those up. That's the thing. Look, Kevin, me and you, this is where we part ways. I ain't giving up four first round picks for role players. Stars, we can talk.

Role players? Come on. You think Siakum's just a role player? No, no, no, no, no. Seacom. I don't even need Seacom. I don't need him. What do I need him?

Jerry Jackson, Jr. What do I need Siaka for? Totally different players. Right. One of them is the anchor of the best defense in the NBA since he's come back. The other is spin move central. I don't need it. Jeez.

I don't need it. The other thing, P.S., I was glad to hear you say that the Grizzlies could win the title because since you told me that the Pelicans are better than the Grizzlies, the Pelicans haven't won a game. Kevin O'Cer You Kevin O'Cercer Look what you've done to the Pelicans They hadn't won a game since you said it

O and four And they got beat by a Bucks team That Memphis beat by a thousand Um Brooke Lopez was I don't know what he turned into In that third quarter That was crazy

And then the Pelicans fought back That was actually a really good game I will say one of the things that I noticed last night and maybe it's just a matchup thing well they really need your boy Nance they can't run Zion and Valatunus out there together

he doesn't at crunch time like you know what I mean when the game's like when it gets tight he he doesn't have Valan Tunis and Zion out there as a front court and Nance is out right now so

you had to make a decision that, you know, unless you're going to go real small and rolls high on over to the center, whatever. And P.S., Valencius was ridiculous last night. Like, by far as the most productive game of the season. Remember when we used to argue about Valent shooter shooting threes? No, I know. He can shoot three, Chris. He can shoot it. But I think, Nance or not, the Buck's defense last night showed the way the Pelicans are going to be defending in the postseason because whether it was Brooke Lopez, Bobby Portis, or Yana Sender de Kumpo, they just didn't respect Herb Jones. They were short on closeouts with him

whenever he caught the ball off the catch. They hung out in the paint when he was holding the ball outside, daring him to shoot. And they did similar things to Valanchunas, which is why he got so many open three-point shot opportunities because they said, you guys are going to beat us. Zion Williamson, you are not. So we're going to pack the paint and do everything we can with our length and size and versatility and Drew Holliday being the man at the point of attack on Zion, who did a heck of a job with help from Brooke, Portis, and Janus. That's what they did last night.

And it worked to an extent, granted, Jonas Valentuna's had a hell of a night shooting the ball. That's the template for the Milwaukee Bucks. They showed it to the rest of the league with what teams are going to do against Zion. So I think Larry Nance or not, I think that's what teams are going to do because Nance isn't a true floor spacer either.

No, no, no, I'm just talking about defensively. That's where, look, Valchur is fine, offensively. Defensively, yeah, of course, another story. They need Larry Nance with his versatility out there. Because that's how they can get some stops. Yeah. And they can't. They have been able to.

And also, they need, they need Ingram back too as well. Like, they got to get Ann Burn and Ingram back at some point soon for both ends of the floor. Because his ISO scoring, we saw that and some recent losses as well for them with New Orleans, where the end game offense, I believe it's that Phoenix game and the Utah game, too, for that matter, where Ingram probably is a big time difference maker there with end game scoring, shot creation with size, and then defensively, Ingram is good at this point.

He's not a stopper, but the length he provides is very important. A couple of other things we've got to get to that just happened from last night. Minnesota, do you think they should just tell towns and Gobert to stay home? They have been crashed. They have been cracking with Nas Reid. Opened it up a little bit more for Edwards and the guys. And Nas Reid, I don't know if you could have imagined getting this level of production, but he has just been out of his mind.

Given the opportunity, given the opportunity to start, you know, kid and Luca both get chucked out of the game last night. and were super frustrated. Kid unwilling to talk after him. Nasree, since he has been installed into the lineup where he's played, he's played two games over the course of the last week where he's played over 30 minutes. Played 36 minutes in an OKC game.

He played 40 minutes last night against Dallas. In those games where he has gotten those minutes, He's been 11 for 18 and 11 for 19, 28 points and 27 points, 9 rebounds and 13 rebounds. Nas Reid, been a good guy off the bench for him in his limited minutes, but giving the opportunity to start, this guy is making the most of it. And Minnesota, Nye's thrown together a little mini win streak. It's been cool to watch. Edwards

Nas Reid show. Yeah, it's been cool to watch those guys together. With Nas Reid, it just feels like right now it would be, first of all, the uptick and energy

and effort that started to happen prior to the Gobert absence. But like right now, it feels like the team just moving the ball so well offensively. McDaniels last night

in that game defensively against Luca just gave him hell. And offensively, Nasreed, I mean, he can pick and pop for you. He can do a little bit off the dribble. He can keep the ball

moving, he can spot up and shoot. He's playing really well and the big thing is from Minnesota the last couple games, but really the last couple weeks is they've empowered Anthony Edwards to be the point guard. The guy. And I looked at the numbers on Second Spectrum last

night and last 10 games, he's averaging 24.4 pick and rolls per game and this is noteworthy because over the first 29 games of the season with Edwards and Dilo, Edwards had more pick and rolls than DeLo just four times over their first 29 games. And then Dilo missed two

games. And ever since then, the Wolves had just said, aunt, you're the guy. So Edwards runs heavy pick and roll, running the offense for the two games Dilo was out. And then when Dilo was back, two games, Edwards had 42 pick and rolls to 29 for Russell. And then last time against the Mavs, Edwards had 37 picker rolls to 22 for Russell. So two games in a row, he's had 15 and 13 more pick and rolls than Russell when Russell had eight more per game previously in the season. Will this be some outlier, a couple of games here where Ants and Nasreed are just running pick and roll because those guys have chemistry and it reversed back? Or are we seeing a change within the Minnesota offense here where they've empowered him? Because I'll tell you what, like you watch

ants. He's not just running pick and roll and, you know, driving in the basket or pulling up. This dude against the bowls, he had two passes and within a minute of each other, back-to-back possessions, I believe. One of them drove to the left side of the court, made this left-handed, off the dribble, skip pass to the right-corner, three-point shooter, bang on the money. Then the next possession, he drove to the right-corner, made a right-handed, skip-pass to the left corner for a three-point shooter, bang on the money again. consecutive possessions in a row, one offhand, one with his strong hand.

Ant is making some really, really high-level reads and passes out there that show that this is a guy who's growing as a playmaker. I think Minnesota would be wise to continue empowering him. When Gobert comes back, those guys have been better statistically over the last month together in the pick and roll after struggling early in the year. And then once Cat returns, to me it's on Cat and Gobert and everybody else and DeLo, everybody. to fit around Anthony and Edwards. It's on them to make it work because Ant is showing that he can be the guy when you put the ball on his hands.

That's exactly what I talked about during the preseason or after the postseason. It's exactly why I hated that trade. I mean, why did they not, they have fallen into what it looks like to build with him in mind, literally. He's that good.

You don't need, you know, you can fill out with a couple high-level role players. He can make it happen. And I don't understand, you know, they tried to speed up this timeline so much. But he is one of these guys that I think has a chance to be really, really special in this league. And I don't know if they, you know, sometimes you get,

you fall into stuff. do you think this I don't think this ever happened this epiphany that they're going to have unless those guys are out I really don't both towns and Gobert

because I mean they were decidedly average without towns I know you say that the pick and roll thing but I mean they it was better it's not like they had a winning record I'm not saying the team was great I'm just saying statistically Edwards and Gobert were starting to figure some

things out and by the way Goberra wasn't the guy receiving the ball oftentimes. It was kicking out to others because of the gravity of the role. Yeah, that game the other night, 150. I mean, that's, you just will never, you can watch a lot of basketball and never see that. They shot 66% from the field and 54% from three. It dropped 150 on Chicago's head.

I mean, Chicago, another blow-it-up team. They stink. Do we agree on Chicago? they should blow it up. I mean, I would certainly get what I could for DeRosen and Levine. Yeah, and Boone too. But no, I think with Minnesota, this three game win streak's encouraging. OK, see, Chicago, Dallas.

Dallas again on Wednesday. Listen, you know we're different on Rudy Gobert, Chris. I think with Gobert, it's going to be very intrigued to see how he fits moving forward with this team and how the team operates with this change in. mind, how will they operate when Ant is running the show? That's different than anything we've seen throughout the entire season,

if Chris Finch indeed goes with that moving forward. That'll be different and something to watch. It's going to be really interesting because they've run a center out there that's gotten them 25 points twice. Like, that has worked. That combo with Edwards and Reed has been absolutely dynamite. I think we, safe to say,

that's not what Gobert brings to the table. No, definitely not. It changes. something. Lakers have lost AD for a month, and now I saw, like, you know, Westbrook ain't playing tonight. LeBron ain't playing tonight. So it might be more competition for these teams that you say should blow it up. I mean, some of these teams are unintentionally not going to be good to say the least. So it was a matter of time, right? I hate to say that, but it's always something. It's always something with AD. Always something.

You see, yeah, the wind horse thing that he said yesterday? he said, it's not good. It's not a sprained ankle. It's not a sprained foot. From what I understand, it's something more concerning than that. Did he raise both fingers? I don't believe he did,

but he might as well as. What is going on with Anthony Davis's foot? Why would they say? The Lakers are screwed. If 80s out, they're screwed. Yeah.

Totally screwed. It changes everything. You got Andy Davis out. You got Steph Curry out for a certain amount of time, maybe up to a month. I mean, you got a bunch of these teams that are going to have to deal with things. Not dealing with things.

unbelievably is a team that has gotten healthy, has stayed out of drama, and now is 11 and 2 in their last 13 games. They are 11 and 2, and they've won six in a row. and that is the Brooklyn Nets. Tell me about it, Kev. What is going on besides just Harris, Curry back, you know, T.J. Warren, now back.

Udawada Navi making seemingly 100% of his corner threes. I know, right? It really doesn't seem like it. It's really done. Kevin Durant making every long jumper he's ever taken. What else is going on with this team, Kevin? From one of the fourth, Wadanovi is making 52.7% of his threes.

Just throwing the actual number out there, which is equally absurd. P.S. Another grizzlies find. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, should have hung on to him. Then you definitely wouldn't need O.G.

And Ovi or not. I loved you to. I love him. He's a good player. Toronto loves him, too. I think with Brooklyn, I mean, you mentioned all the names. Kyrie, of course, has been excellent.

Ben Simmons is back. I just want to give some love in Nick Claxton. Oh. Nick Claxton, him and Kevin Durant defensively together with all their length out there, their lanky lengths. Those two, some room protectors together, man. Katie's been awesome defensively. And you factor in Nick Claxton with the length and versatility he provides as a switch defender,

a shot blocker near the basket. He's bigger and stronger than he's ever been. I mean, he's now 23 years old, right? He's grown into his frame. He used to be so skinny. He looks like a complete defensive force right now. He's an all defensive candidate. And him and Kevin Durant together, like you got to make, you mentioned Katie hitting every long jumper he's ever taken.

Kyrie, too. Those guys are the best midway intruders in all the basketball. Katie is an MVP candidate once again. But you also got to give love to Durant for his defense too. Like he, this season has been intense on ball. constantly focused off ball, setting a tone with his rotations, his help inside, deterring drivers.

It's easy to forget. This dude's seven feet tall, but he's playing, like, remember when he played the five for the Warriors in the playoffs? That's essentially the effort and the intensity that he's bringing to the floor right now for Brooklyn. And I can't help but admire that.

And he has the supporting pieces around him now where Katie might not win MVP. You know, Janus is number one to me in the MVP rankings right now. But he's one of the many guys that belongs in that top five conversation. It's not just because the offense, it's not just because the load he carries,

but it's what he's doing defensively alongside Nick Claxton to help drag this team out from the bottom back towards the top of the Eastern Conference. You know, watching them, and I saw them early in the season, they're totally dysfunctional. This is since Nash.

They certainly, when you watch them, they've got more direction, more structure, then much more sharing of the ball, moving it around. It was so stagnant, so my turn, your turn. Frankly, what we talked about with the Hawks early in the show. A lot of that, they popped the ball around for sure now. And the other thing was I thought watching them.

They can do it both ways. They can do the stagnant ISO, ISO, your turn, my turn between Kyrie and Katie, or they can keep it moving constantly. Yeah, for sure. And the other thing is defensively, they were miserable, and they couldn't rebound for shit. And they have gotten so much better at both of those. That's a credit to both KD and Jacques Vaughn. Because now if you notice, like they still don't have a ton of size, though you shouted out Claxton. But that ball comes off the rim.

They go after it. All of them go after it. Like they have clearly made it a thing to where we're not going to be dis miserable on the defensive backboards. Like that's going to be the end of the possession. And everybody kind of does their part now because they are undersized. They're an undersized team. And they don't have a lot of, they don't have a lot of front court help. But they kind of do it.

They're not good at it, but they do it as a collective now. They're not miserable at it. And the other thing was when I watched them, I thought, like, what are they? I was just so unimpressed with like, what are you trying to, what are you taking away from a team? Right? There's clearly, when you go into a game, there's things you're trying to take away from a team. And I would watch them. I'd be like, what are you guys trying to do?

You're not guarding the rim and you ain't guarding the three point lines. So what the hell are we doing here? You know, you got to pick one way that a team's not going to beat you. And I feel like you watch them now. they're not shitty defensively. No, not at all. And it's the same guys for the most part. And so that's a real credit to Durant and Jacques

and kind of what they've done. The big test is coming up though. They have Gold State Wednesday, of course. That's unfortunately not going to be the Golden State team we expected facing off against Brooklyn. But then they have Milwaukee on Friday and then Cleveland on Monday. those games, like they lost the Boston a couple weeks ago,

but they've won everything else. They lost to Boston, you know, a couple weeks back. Milwaukee and Cleveland, those are the teams you're going to have to beat if you have any chance in the Eastern Conference to make it all the way to the NBA finals. That's the true barometer test coming up for Brooklyn after winning some good games.

I'm going to give them credit, but they, you know, it's not like they've had the toughest schedule the last couple of weeks either. But here's all I'd say. They ain't got to be like awesome defensively. I mean, they do to win, you know, East finals, final stuff. But just for like the season and to be a really good team, you know,

they're going to be able to outscore you on a lot of nights. They've got the offensive firepower. They just need to not be terrible defensively. And they're going to be a problem. Meanwhile, I do want to mention this before we get out of here. The Knicks. Another Wind Street going. A few weeks ago.

New York basketball, baby. I did it. I said, watch out. I think they're going to get a lot better. They're one of those teams that the first 20 games is not indicative. And Brunson has just been an absolute revelation for them. He has been awesome. And they finally stopped the, you know, the Fornier Madness.

And now I was looking this morning, Kevin, they've got a lineup right now. I think this is shock people. Amongst the ones that have played the most minutes in the NBA, clearly most of them are really good lineups. But the lineup with Randall Brunson, Mitchell Robinson, RJ, and Quentin Grimes, it's got a net rating of plus 14. It's their most played lineup.

Really good. 14? I mean, it's performance. like one of the better lineups in the NBA that's played minutes. Quentin Grimes getting minutes. That's been one of the like that happened like I don't know like right before Thanksgiving tips said

Quentin Grimes you're going to play 30 minutes every night and that dude has been awesome. Defensively he's versatile. He plays hard. He brings energy. Offensively he's become such a good three point shooter for that mixed team. Like he's been such an important cog that you're talking about in that lineup there

and you got to be credit of Julius Randall. Randall's start. of the year horrifically on defense. He has been putting in much, much, much better effort on that end of the floor. And if he's defending, that's when everything works. To me, like, Randall playing defense is the key. You know what Brunson's going to bring you as a playmaker and effort guy. You know what Mitchell Robinson's going to bring you as a room protector.

Grimes is a 3-and-D guy. RJ hopefully getting it going. You know, he was pretty good last night against Indiana. He's gotten better. He's gotten better. So it's on Randall, do you embrace your role and get back to being that all-NBA guy you were a couple years ago when he shocked the world and became such a good defensive player and did what he did offensively? Can he do that? Can he keep that up? That's the key for the next more than anything else to me. It's Julius Randall's defense.

They're playing good basketball for sure. They sure are. And they found a really good lineup. Yeah, McBride coming off the bench. Hartenstein. They get some, they figured out a good mix, right? right now. And, well, I mean, they had to throw Gribes in there, especially after all the,

we don't want to give up Quentin Grimes in the whole. David Mitchell's like scoring like 35 points a night. At some point, it's like, okay, dude, we can't have it out there that we were trying to hold on to Quentin Grimes and him just riding on the bench. Like, if we think that much of him, we got to get him in the lineups. And good player. I mean, look, just not being Evan Fornier is helpful.

Yeah. That was just dumb. RJ Barrett looks like he's in a rhythm. You know, like, again, like straight through the opponents has not been spectacular. But he scored 20 plus in five consecutive games and scoring with better efficiency over the past month or so. I've had Nick's people tweeting me saying,

they remember me saying on the first night of the season, I thought he was out of shape. and they're like, I think he's in shape now. Yeah. I don't know. It looks like a guy that's going to be losing every night in Utah that, you know, and then he got his hundred-ups, a million dollars. And look, if you're running like that every other night or every night,

and Lord knows, Tibbs will run your ass into the ground, it's impossible to be in bad shape on a Tibbs team, unless you're a bench player. Because if you're a bench player, you might never. play. But if you're a starter, your ass might be out there 42 minutes. Yeah, like Cam Rottis right now is getting a little belly fat.

Yeah, right. Maybe a team should give up four first rounders for him, huh? Yeah. Yeah, for the dream of Cam Rettish. For the dream. Yeah, with what he could have been. Maybe one day.

Yeah. You know what, I've got a theory on him, by the way. Cam Ranish, do you ever notice? What, he just doesn't work hard? No, no, no. Well, all players love him, right? Player, if you ever, players love Reddit. Like, they think Reddish is amazing.

And it's very reminiscent. Is that true? Really? Yes. I mean, he's a quiet guy. No, but if you ever watch, like, you'll see it on social media, you'll see quotes about it. All these guys love Reddish.

They think he's so talented. It reminds me so much of Jeff Green. If you ever talk to players, players think more highly of Jeff Green than your general. fan or the media does. And my theory is that all these guys play during the summer, and Reddish has been around forever. So, I mean, he's been, he's been, you know, a significant player from the time he was

in high school. Everybody knew him in high school, right? And that all these guys, like, play together, and that Reddish must be like the Jeff Greens. Oh, that Rudy Gay, same way. These guys are pick up, like, Jordans. Like if you just go to a gym and you're just playing, they're shockingly amazing. But then when you put them within the structure of an NBA team, they're not as impressive.

And yet all these guys think that those guys are amazing. They're crazy athletes. They run like Pegasus. I mean, I mean, I get it. They look like amazing. They like that they would be crazy in pickup. And I think he's like the new one. You know,

the new one in line. Like Rudy, like Jeff Green, like he's tall, 6-9 athletic, can do everything's. I hope he can have a career as good as Jeff Green. Yeah.

Oh, for sure. Or Rudy Gay, for that matter. I'm not trying to, you know. I hope. I really, I'm rude for camera artists to figure it out.

And we're going to be on team three. Yeah. And good teams too. That's the problem. You know, not like horrendous teams. Hawks are pretty good. Nick's pretty good. That makes me a little more.

Yeah. Right. Kevin, it's always a pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Have a great Christmas, everybody. Yeah, everybody has a great, great cameras. Yeah, you as well, Chris. Have a great Christmas.

We'll be talking next Tuesday, right? One week from today. Next Tuesday. Post-Christmas episode. Maybe we should record on Monday, the 26th, and then have it release overnight. Perfect. Don't I do that?

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. And then that'll be the one we do before the new year. We'll tweet it out on social the day we plan to record, but, you know. Yeah, one way or another. We'll do an episode of the mismatch next week. Yep.

All right. We'll talk to everybody then. Thanks for listening. Merry Christmas. everybody.