The Mismatch - Trade Deadline Reactions: Jimmy Joins Steph, the Lakers Get Their Center, and Can the Suns Regain KD’s Trust?

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

Verno and Jacoby go through all the trades that went down before the deadline, from Jimmy Butler finally escaping Miami to the Grizzlies dumping Marcus Smart. They start off by briefly revisiting the De’Aaron Fox deal before moving on to the Bucks trading Khris Middleton for Kyle Kuzma and De'Andre Hunter’s potential impact with the Cavs (08:07). They then discuss why Smart was moved, what kind of impact Butler will make with the Warriors, and why everyone needs to slow down a bit on the newest Laker big man, Mark Williams (25:08). Next, they discuss the position the Suns are in with Kevin Durant now after his name was floated around in trade talks (48:00). Has this broken the relationship between KD and the Suns front office? The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David Jacoby Producer: Jessie Lopez Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? Logan Murdoch here from Real On The Ringer NBA show, and I wanted to invite you to pull up and kick it with Roger Bell, Howard Beck, and myself during All-Star weekend for our live podcast. We're going to be at the Stoer Punchline Comedy Club in San Francisco on Saturday, February 15th at 2 p.m. pre-gaming all the All-Star festivities, and you never know who might stop by. Get your tickets now by heading over to ringer.com backslash events. That's ringer.com backslash events. to see you there. Welcome to the mismatch.

I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me see us every week from the ringer.com. It's Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. It's great to be here today. It is Friday morning after the trade deadline.

The dust has settled and I can't wait to discuss it all with you. A couple of things that took place last night that are worth mentioning. You never know how these games are going to go

post trade deadline, but was nice for the Mavericks to make their entire fan base forget about the Luca Donchich trade by beating the Boston. in Celtics last night. You don't need Luca Dodgich when you have an

aging Clay Thompson. This is Nico Harrison's master plan all along. It was, look, I'm sure they were very thrilled with being able to get a win against Boston last night. The other things it took place, Anthony Edwards and Dylan Brooks getting into it was absolutely awesome. And Edwards has been out of his mind these last couple of games

just put together two monster. I am by far the best player on the floor. performances. And for Houston's sake, they've dropped a couple in a row now. And when I watch them, it's one of those things where it feels to me, like, man, this Van Vleet thing is outsized. I saw him in that game against Memphis last week that went down to the very last shot of the game. Next game, I think he went out after about 15 minutes in that game, turned the ankle. And so they've been having to play without him.

It's just the adult on the court. Let's get all this organized, especially down the stretch in these games. And so, as we say, sometimes it's not always the player that is out because someone could very well go look at the statistics for Van Vleet and be like, well, that shouldn't be that big of a deal. But if you watch that team, it's the it's the organization of it, especially with so many young guys on that roster. that I watch them and I go, they don't have anything. Sometimes it's not the individual player as much as it is the drop off. And they don't have anybody else to just get the whole thing organized or to make sure you get a good shot down the stretch.

And so the sooner Van Vleet can get back in the fold. I think the sooner Houston gets back to their winning ways and being one of the teams that we've been most surprised with this season. You know what? I have to push back a little bit on that because my opinion, I wonder how you feel about this, my opinion of the Houston Rockets and their level of contention has dramatically changed in the past three weeks. If you were to ask me three or four weeks ago, are the Rockets legitimate title contenders? If you take legitimate out of that sentence, maybe I can give you that. But now I feel like this is a team that is growing and building that will likely not make the second round of the playoffs.

and Fred Bamblite or not Bamblite. And I do think that Bamblitz, him missing is impactful because when you have Dylan Brooks as the adult in the room, there is no adult in the room, you know? Well, these are the, but these are the steps of every team. You go from mediocre to, wow, we have taken a huge step up. Now we take our lumps in the playoffs. And so whether it is a hard fought first round series or whether it is

run into somebody in the second round and get beat, I think, you know, I'm not going to ding them for this is the trajectory and this is why they did not take some kind of big swing to alter their team this year because they're going to let those kids go in and take their lumps in the playoffs for the first time. So let me rephrase it just by simply saying this. I know they're no longer the two seed, but at one time they were. I rarely look at the two seed in a conference and say they do not have a chance to win the championship. I really look at the three seed in the comments that they do not have a chance to win the change. That's just not true. That's not true.

Come on. The two seed three of the last four years has been the Memphis Grizzlies. I know this better than everyone. So don't tell me. So don't say that. That's stupid. Not one time. Not one time.

During the Cavs Eastern Conference era, I suppose that held true because there was no one coming out of the East besides the Cavs. This is three of four years that Memphis has been. the two seed in the Western conference. And not once did I ever consider them title contenders. Nor did anybody else think they were winning the title. So you can be the two seed. I mean, look, it's happening. Yeah.

And it might be happening again. I don't feel like the, I don't feel like the Grizzies are title contenders right now either. So there you go. To be honest with you. Right. So it does, it does happen.

You are right. Yeah. And there's a reason why, as we have talked about this year, and Brian Winhorst even said on ESPN yesterday, that these teams, especially the veteran-laden ones, down towards the bottom of the Western Conference playoffs standings, are not fearful of the top three seats. I did see some fans from those respective teams say,

oh, shots fired, or, oh, these teams that are at the bottom of the, but, I mean, it makes all the sense in the world. These teams, in many cases, are laden with players that have a tremendous amount of not only years in the league, but a tremendous amount of playoff experience. And playoff basketball is different than regular season basketball. And so I think that is one of the major reasons. Anyway, I do think they need to get Van Vlebe back in their fold.

And then the other one is last night, the late game. LeBron James with 42, 17, and 8 is just patently ridiculous. I mean, come on. I mean, those three threes in a row were just stupid. And I do feel, I'm going to get a little like woo-woo mumbo-jumbo here, but I do feel just the idea that Luca Dantage is now on the team, just the impact, the attention, the spotlight, the, you know, just all of that has gotten the best out of LeBron.

Because with Luca on the sideline there, LeBron showed out the last couple games. I know. And they're on a run. Remember they beat the Knicks the night he got traded? Then they, they waxed the clippers. Last night, the Warriors didn't look like they were in the same class. It was really impressive what they've done since the sort of Dantish news.

Also, how about the Steph Curry 35 shot attempts? I guess this was like, hey, Jimmy's going to be in the fold by the weekend. I'm not going to get them out now. Got to get them up now. Let me unload the clip. 35 attempts is crazy. You very rarely see that. No.

No. So anyways, all right. I have every trade printed off. We're going to go through them one by one. You stop me when it is something you want to talk about. A lot of them are going to be minuscule. A lot of them are not going to require conversation or move you at all. And I just want to say, like, I'm pretty, I'm going to pass on a lot of these because every trade is impactful, but not every trade is worth seven minutes of discussion.

Totally understandable. In fact, I will be mad at you if you want to spend seven minutes on some of these. Look, we didn't get in too deep. into the Fox deal because the Luca thing overshadowed everything. But it goes without saying that we loved the deal for San Antonio. Antonio and my God, the initial results, just one game were absolutely. I mean, that is a dream scenario to acquire a guy. And for not to be like, this might take a little time,

but for him to be immediately great and look good in the scenario is, I mean, that's the dream. That's the dream when you pull up a deal. You don't know how things are going to work out when you add a new player to a new team. And this is that, that game was the ideal, that was the ideal scenario for the spurs. They're like, that is why we have box. Yes. He's going to be great immediately.

Wemby's going to be giant. He's going to be fast. That's going to happen. All right. Dallas Mavericks. Of course, you might have heard they made a Luca Dodge's trade. They also acquired Caleb Martin for Quint. Grimes and a 2025 second round

pick. Oh, it's kind of like Caleb Martin. I know that it was a money deal for 76ers to get themselves under the tax. But Caleb Martin's a guy that you could take it to the playoffs. He's a veteran guy. Grimes is having a good year. You know, Grimes is a former Nick. Like, he's a backup point card, but

this is not worth of this. And this is another, like, it's very clear, Nico Harrison, true to his word. Defense. And also doesn't care about five years from now. He only cares about the next two or three, three or four years. When you trade Luca Dantzic, you immediately put yourself on the hot seat.

You put yourself on the hot seat and you trade Luca Dantzsche. So I don't think a five-year plan is really a smart thing for him to be executing right now. I think that's totally fair. All right. So that's the one that we had. Then we have Oklahoma City, you know, the Daniel Tice deal, who they've already waived. So that's inconsequential. But of course, they somehow, by taking on Daniel,

ties. They got another 2031 second round pick, which always makes me laugh because every time they put up those graphics of the Thunder picks, it's like every draft for the next 10 years. This is, if I could bet on this, I would bet the Oklahoma City G League team, the blue, to win the championship for the next four years. I would. They're going to go on their tear through the G league. But I will say, one thing worth mentioning that is impactful, not about. about this trade, but about this team is, is reported that Chet's going to play tonight. Yes. And I think that that is going to have more impact on the Western Conference and ultimately

the championship than most of these trades outside of the Dodgers one that have been made. You can't imagine they're going to play back to backs either, right? Because I was hopeful. Who do they play Saturday? I forgot, Bernal. Yeah. Memphis, Oklahoma City. It would have been nice for him to come back for that one.

Yeah, I don't think, there is a scenario in which you can play. like 15 minutes in one and 15 minutes in the other. I suppose. I'd imagine that's probably not the plan. Boston got off of Jaden Springer and some picks for a second round pick. I mean, that's consequential. Sacramento got Jonas Valentinus, who I loved

in Memphis, but has been, you know, kind of toiling away in Washington this year. But, I mean, he's a big body. They didn't give up, you know, they gave up Citi Sasoko and two second round picks. I mean, again,

And I'm not sure it moves the needle greatly for them. But if you look at them, you see a team where it's like, you know, they got Zachlvie, they got DeMorto Rosen, they got some bonus, they got Valencius, like you should be able to score some points. Yeah. They got guys. But I will say that while this is not that impactful of a trade in terms of what I think about the Kings, the fact that this is an appropriate role for Valentunas for where he's at in his career. You back up Subonis. You do not start because the Lakers were talking about bringing him on and using him as like their starting center. You know what I mean?

Like that is not an appropriate use of Valentunes is where he is at right now. I will say size wise, there will be times where they put Valentunus and Sabonis in the game. And for all of Valentinus's foibles defensively, I'll tell you something. There's going to be times if they put both those guys on the court. You ain't getting a rebound on either end. You're not getting enough. defensive rebound. This guy can still rebound and you're not getting a rebound. Not a boost bonus and Valcunis in there. No chance. If I was the opposing coach, I'd be like,

don't even try. Just get back. If you miss, you're going to get one shot. And if we miss, we might get four. We're just going to keep it. We might miss all four too. We might miss all four. Uh, the Milwaukee Bucks made a move. Uh, Kyle Kuzma, Patrick Baldwin, Junior Jericho Sims wizard's second round pick the wizard's got Chris Middleton A.J. Johnson at a pick swap. The Knicks got DeLonwright and some cash. So Kyle Coosma is and Middleton are obviously the two biggest names. So they get off the Middleton contract.

They add Kyle Coosma. Does this make the Bucks any better? No. I agree. Simply. Just simply no. And I think that if you are the Bucs, there's reasons to do this deal.

Middleton is obviously not having a good season and not looking like he's going to turn it around at any point soon. In fairness to him, he had double ankle surgery. Yeah, well, that's part of it. If I had double ankle surgery, I mean, he's moving around like he had double ankle surgery too. And I don't think, but I don't think that the taking Middleton's minutes and giving those to Cal Kuzma, you know, dramatically, not even dramatically impact, changes this team or how I feel about them or their potential or where I would give them in terms of like title chances at all.

But you've always liked Kuzma, haven't you? I've always liked Kuzma, but I've always liked him more. Remember his, remember his summer league? Remember when he was in the summer league? He scored like 40 points a game. This reminds me of everybody bringing up his time with the Lakers. And it's like, bro, that's a long time ago now. But he was like a key piece of a championship team.

And he's, you know, he's winning Harlow's boyfriend. Like, I've always liked Kyle Kuzma just like as a vibe. I think it's kind of funny, but like I, you know, taking Middleton's minutes and giving them to Kyle Kuzma, it's not like I feel like the bucks are now, you know, going to be a threat to the top three in the east. The other thing is they can score. I figure, I thought that they would be searching for somebody who was like point of attack defense. Somebody to put alongside Lillard, just somebody in that position because he is, look, even if you want to say that his offensive ceiling is much greater than it has been and he's just been toiling away as a loser. in Washington.

And you say, hey, now he's going to be part of a winning team. He has been a part of a winning team. We've seen him be able to contribute to a winning team before. He's still got that in him. Whatever, the numbers are going to be better. Plus, you get a lot of open shots when you're playing with Janus and Dame. I get all of that. It's

still the defensive side of the ball that is the concern to me, right? It is, yeah. I can see. When you have Janus and Lopez, you're going to protect the rim, but like, it's perimeter defense has been this team's problem. And I mean, they've got Andre Jackson Jr. But outside of that, who's solving that problem?

And especially in a conference where wings are at a premium. You are in our opinion, you know, now we have, which we'll get to later, we have the Hunter deal that has gone on in Cleveland, which

was attaining a wing, but you know Boston has unbelievable wings. You know New York has great wings. And so now you're walking into a party where you're deficient. at that and to me Kyle Kuzma ain't changing that, right? Like, I mean

I still know who I've got to go to battle with. I got to go to battle with O.G. Ninobe and McKell Bridges. I got to go battle with the two Jays. I mean, to me, it's like I'm bringing Kyle Kuzma, I'm bringing a knife to a gunfight. Exactly.

And I also think that you are correct to bring up the DeAndre Hunter trade because we can discuss that now because that is clearly the thinking of the Cavaliers and anyone who's paid even just tertiary attention to the cabs know that they've got the one and two figured out they've got the four and five figured out but it's that three spots they've been auditioning guys for that three spot for like four years now and i think dandre hunter whose value has never been higher this is the first time dandre hunter has ever been dionre hunter

in his career this year and if he continues to produce the way he did in atlanta in cleveland it is it is that exact thinking we're going to have to go up up against some great wings. We know who we are at the one in the two and the four and the five. We need to figure out that spot. And I think that Hunter will nicely fit in there. I think the answer to that question on, because I like the Hunter deal as well,

but it is based on the last five months. Exactly. If DeAndre Hunter is who DeAndre Hunter has been the last five months, then it's great. If DeAndre Hunter, if this is a mirabre, if that is not actually DeAndre Hunter and given the situation and playing against backup units and everything. You know what I'm saying?

There's a different deal of which he was experiencing getting to play in the scenario that he was in Atlanta. Because if he's a super six man, it's not that. That's not that we're trying to get a starting small forward here. Right. And so if he can translate even. 80% of what he has been thus far in Atlanta as a starting guy for that team, then it could be really good.

But I do think it's a risk. I mean, you've got a great thing going in Cleveland, and it's always a risk to bring in somebody else. It always is. It really just boils down. And it's so, I hate to make it this sort of basic, but sometimes the simple answer is the right answer.

He's just got to hit his shots. That's it. They're not asking him to get his own buckets. and I ask him to create for others. We've got Garland and Mitchell. We've got Mowgli and Alan. We need someone to hit their shots. You don't have to move.

You have to catch and shoot. And if he can do that at 44, 45%, I would say unlike the Kuzma move, this does, in my mind, change their title chances. I think this small upgrade in my mind changes their chances of the title. I only think that the, I agree.

And again, to me, I look at Cleveland and go, this was worth it. This was worth the risk. But it is a risk because any time that you shake things up when you are having this much success and you, and you're taking away two veterans who, you know, even if you want to just discard Nyang, he's a veteran who's been on a lot of winning teams. And Leverr has been a guy. And Leverts had some really big moments and some really good games for them. And sometimes on those nights where things aren't going that well,

like Karras Levert comes in and helps you go on that 12-0 run, it's super useful and has made their, you know, their depth and their bench. LaVird is for sure a guy that is going to get playoff minutes and is also a weird matchup many times when you play them out there. there in terms of space and he can get his own shot he can create he can score especially when he goes up against second units absolutely and i know and i just want to give a shot to george yang because i love that guy he's got a great podcast with my friend kevin so check that one out too all right uh terence man uh to the atlanta hawks and bones highland uh bogdan bogdanovic and three second round picks go to the los angeles clippers i have always been a big bogdan Donovich fan.

There needs. Me too, since the Kings. There needs to be an investigation. What the hell happened to him this year? That's what. Seriously, I was thinking, first of all, I've also been a Bogdan guy for a long time. And here's why I love him. He just doesn't make mistakes.

Like, I don't watch the game and be like, what are you doing Bogdanovich? I just never say that. I just feel like he's consistent. He doesn't turn the ball over that much. He shoots fine. He scores fine. But he's just, he's just a consistent, constant variable in the equation that doesn't fluctuate the way a Keras Levert does.

Hopefully this will inject whatever he used to be back into him. I know that he played over the summer, but this season, I mean, there's no way around it. It has been a disaster. And look, I look at it and go, they've got a plethora of wings with the clippers. This is a good fit for him. I do. I think this is a really good fit for him. And if he can be what he has been, rather than.

in the past rather than what he has been this season. I mean, I like this deal for the Clippers. Do they like entertaining him? Do you think the Miss Terrace, man? I don't think so. I mean, again, the whole thing, I look at it and I go, all right, what do I need when it comes playoff time? And in the end, if you're planning on, you're planning on life with Kauai Leonard in

order to reach whatever you think you're capable of. Yes. So if I am planning on life with Kauai Leonard, you're. Like, I'm not doing anything without Kauai anyway. So now it's, I am building this team out in reference to, you know, I've got some wings that I can still play. And we're praying that we still have Kauai Leonard. And so what else can I do to augment this and having somebody that comes off the bench and can provide some kind of, you know, switch the game up stuff that we talked about before? Yeah, I just think it's a, yeah, I don't worry about, I don't worry about losing man,

especially when I think that Bogdanovich could, could very well in those minutes where you're sitting your starters. He could go out there and, again, maybe get you 12, 14, 18 one night, right? Yeah, because I think the Clippers plan A is James Harden has the ball. Kauai Leonard plays the best defender, plays the other team's best score, and they manufacture wins that way. I don't think they're looking for much out of Bucknovich.

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bendul.com. Gambling problem, call 100 gambler or visit RG-dashelp.com. All right, the Marcus Smart deal. So I got to talk about this. Marcus Smart and a 2025 first round pick. For Marvin Bagley,

the third, Johnny Davis and two second round pick. So, of course, everybody in the free world was laughing. I want to say this. I want to say this, Berneau. I would definitely have just passed on this one. This is an insignificant-ass train.

but you being the Memphis guy and the Marcus Smart guy as the Memphis guy, how will Mark Smart's impact on Christie's fever mempered? I mean, it honestly... Statue or banner or retire the jersey? What do we do? No, it goes down as one

of the bigger mistakes for a franchise that has not made a lot of colossal mistakes. I think it's fair to say. This was a huge mistake. It was a huge mistake that they obviously tried to make up for.

And I didn't like it yesterday because I have, I'm one of those that fears, I'm one of those that fears walking into the playoffs with, I want to go in with the maximum amount of guys I trust. And Memphis does not have a ton of guys that you would trust. And so the answer then becomes, do you trust Marcus Smart in that spot? Because he has been in hundreds of playoff games.

and whatever else. And even though he has not been available, he just came back the other night for the first time. And so would you rather have a veteran, a guy that's won something, a guy that's been in a lot of playoff games, you know, the answer is,

would you rather have Marcus Smart out there guarding, I view it like this. Would you rather, I would rather have Marcus Smart out there guarding Luke Kodontchich when you're playing in the first round of the playoffs than throwing Jalen Wells in the fire like that, guarding him. Now, the answer,

obviously is, look, in the absence of being able to do something that swings the pendulum, you know, it greatly increases your chances of winning in the playoffs, that it was better to just get the financial flexibility when you've got Santiago Dama's contract coming up, Jared Jackson Jr.'s contract coming up, which might be an all-NBA level contract and not chancing it by figuring out what you're going to do in the summer. I got that. I don't agree with it. They think, obviously,

that they are better off with their options than they would be with Marcus Smart. They are. That's it. They are better off. I think that you do take a small hit for the next four or five months, but for the next four or five years, you're much better off with that financial flexibility. And I'm just talking about for this year.

For this year, obviously, look, nobody is ever going to be excited about financial flexibility. I've been through this one before. Yeah. It's a tough sell to the fans. Yeah. But it makes sense. It's good business.

And the answer, did you make the team worse? They don't think they did. The Grizzlies? Yeah. I mean, it's hard to say that because he hasn't contributed this season. Right. He's like, so what are we losing? What production are we losing? You know what I mean?

Like the guys played 24 minutes. It's the season. So you're not losing anything. So in theory, I can understand that logic. But I think this is a very small short time hit for long term game. Here's one we do have to spend a little time on. Jimmy Butler, who also agreed to a two-year, $120 million extension with the Golden State Warriors. It was traded from the Miami Heat.

And the Miami Heat got Andrew Wiggins, P.J. Tucker, Kyle Anderson. The Warriors' 225 first round pick, which is top 10 protected. And then the Jazz were involved in that. as were the pistons were evolved in that. All right. So Jimmy Butler ends up with the Warriors. I may not have the same opinion as you or many of my peers. I could not love this more for the Warriors.

I talked to people yesterday that were like, oh, okay, whatever. Like, do you think that makes some kind of big difference? I do. And again, I think this is all.

all dependent on your opinion of Jimmy Butler. I have always been a massive Jimmy Butler fan. I have always thought he is massively underrated for what, look, you win with Jimmy Butler. Every team that gets him gets way better. Every team that loses him gets way worse. I got it. He napalms the situation. But he always napalms situations.

It's always the same. It's money. he's not made whole. If you get a content Jimmy Butler, go look at what the results have been. Go look at what the results have been. See,

I think a lot of people forget because he was injured, right? And a lot of times he's not available to famously Pat Riley. Imagine this. We've been back and forth about that. But when he was right,

that first round series against the bucks, he wasn't just the best player in the series. He looked like the best player on the planet. Remember they tried to throw a lob to Janus to win a game at the buzzer? and he's like all covered Janice.

Like it's like he was just standing on his head for the entire series. There's the bucks had no chance. And here's the thing. Here's the thing that I think a lot of people maybe and again, it's fair if people don't want to agree with me. Sometimes you can make a move and it has a profound effect on others and that's why the move is greater than the individual acquisition. To me, this is maximizing curry. You get a different curry if you've got Butler on that roster. And I say this as a fan of somebody who is at the top of the Western Conference standings.

I am infinitely more fearful of Golden State today than I was 48 hours ago. That's the truth. Here's things that people that have listened to the mismatch for a long time, like myself, know about Chris Vernon. Chris Vernon loves veteran playoff experience in playoff situations Yes

You've always said that Always You like vets who have been through the wars They've been up They've been down They've been criticized They've been celebrated Just just have all the battle scars

You love a battle scar laden roster Which is one of your concerns About your Memphis crazies We'll discuss later There's a 16 to 2 run that happens You have to have those guys And when you have Steph Curry, Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green, and Steve Kerr, you are built to weather storms.

Like, you are built to go down 02 in a series and come back. Like, you, you are built to win on the road. You're built to have big second half comebacks because there's discussions that happen in halftime. And I think that for that reason, knowing you, which is why you love this trade so much. For me, I think that it is simply, We've got Steph Curry.

We've got to do something to win now. And I think a two-year deal for him, this isn't like, people are like, oh, Jimmy Butler wants to get paid. He didn't really get paid. He had a $50 million. That's the thing. He got an extra year. He got an extra year and $60 million. But I think one of the big things was, oh, where's you going to sign an extension?

Who's going to trade for Jimmy Butler? Because we're the thing this extension is going to be a three-year, $200 million, whatever it's going to be. But this is a very reasonable deal for a 37-year-old basketball player. I don't think he's going to get another big contract after this one. He made me laugh, honestly, yesterday when they asked him if there's any regrets that he had about the way he handled it in Miami. He had one. His answer was that he had just opened up his coffee shop. He says he's got to open a big face in the bay now.

He's something else, man. I love to be brother. I love the Warriors. I don't, again, none of that stuff they lost. moves me. And I don't think, those are all guys that Steph Curry has to create four.

Like, Steph Curry was having to make everything happen for that whole team. And I look at it and go, here's a guy who is a great basketball player who gets better in the playoffs. So as long as I get to the playoffs. That's a huge understatement. That gets better in the playoffs.

It morphs into a completely different human being and level of production. If we accept that, if we accept that that's true. We have a lot of data that suggests it is. And it's also, it's not just a celebration of his playoff performance. It's also a referendum on his regular season performances. Yes. And how many times have we said if a draft for the regular season is way different than a draft for the playoffs.

And a draft for the playoffs, you ain't getting nearly as far down the list before you take Jimmy Butler. So the Warriors fell a game behind a game under 500, right? They're sitting at the 11 seed right now. Ahead of them, Kings, Sons, Mavs, Clippers, Timberwolves. I don't know which one of those teams they get past in the standings to get in the play. Really? Kings? You're in love with all those teams.

I'm not in love with all those teams, but I don't, basically what I'm saying is I see the Warriors on a level playing field with 5 through 10 in the Western Congress. But with that, you could also see a scenario where they're better than all those teams. Where they end up being the 5, sure. What I'm saying is like that that jumbled group has no hierarchy in my mind.

I think if Curry and Butler and Draymond are all healthy, they're not going to have a problem. They're not going to have a problem. There's just a lot of Quentin Post going on recently. A lot of it. There's a lot of it. too much.

A lot of Quinn. We got quitting posts going on recently. Also, how did they not lose Cominga in this deal? It's kind of crazy. I assumed Cominga was in the deal. I know. I was like, I was like, Wiggins and wait, Wiggins and, wait, slowmo?

I was like, it also should tell you that, I mean, look, we, we knew this. Cominga is not a Pat Riley guy. All you have to do is watch him play. And you know very well, like who's the kind of guy that Pat Riley would love. It ain't Jonathan Kamenga.

No. Not his kind of player. I don't know. Wiggins doesn't scream heat culture either, but they just wanted to get off of bother. The Toronto Raptors. They're the landing spot for Brandon Ingram. Huh. New Orleans Pelicans got Bruce Brown, Kelly O'Linnick, first round pick, second round pick.

I mean, Brandon Ingram doesn't play all that much basketball. I saw a story yesterday that said, I want to say the number was 154. games that Zion and Ingram played in five and a half seasons together. That's crazy. This, how do I, this is a little head scratchy for me. Really? A little head scratchy.

Because the Raptors, is Brandon Ingram and Scotty Barnes going to be your big two duo that leads you into the future of contention? You're forgetting RJ? I guess. I'm not forgetting RJ. The Raptors are a little dangerous, especially in the last month. They've won a lot of games that you did not expect them to win in the last four weeks.

I just watched them give up 85 to Memphis in one half two nights ago. Yeah, they did not win that game. Not particularly close. 85 and a half is crazy. I do, are they going to extend him? I would contend you should not have time to score. 85 points and a half. How many possessions did they have in a half?

I just don't, I don't know. I don't really understand exactly what the raptors are up to. I really don't. That sounds like everything that's happened post-Kawai. Yes. Pretty much. I don't know what they're doing on here. I'm not really sure.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's happening here? Yeah, yes, what is the plan? Are we good, good? Are we bad? What's happening? you also forgot about Dick, by the way. We got to mention that. Always, always have to mention good dick.

Yep. Is Brandon Ingram resigning there? That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you wouldn't have given this up. Yeah, so you're going to re-sign Brandon Ingram and be what? Like a hopeful playing team for the next four years? Maybe his dream is to just have a bunch of guys between like six five and six ten. They did that two seasons ago.

Did not work. No, no. Did not work. Weird. It was weird. And I also thought, I don't know. I value Brandon Ingram. I don't know.

I don't know. Just trade Zion. The Lakers got Mark Williams for Dalton Connect, Cam Reddish, a 2031 unprotected first round pick and a 2030 pick swap. This, of course, made Mavericks fans barf. All right. Okay. Mark Williams, not exactly a household name. However, I think.

based on sort of what I've been hearing and reading about for the last 48 hours, is can we just slow our role about the brilliance of Mark Williams and how he's a perfect fit to play alongside Luca and how he is, you know, he's got a longer wingspan than Wembenyama, and he's now going to sort of blossom into this amazing finiture, one of the best centers in the league. Like, there's a reason no one's talking about Mark Williams before he got traded to Lakers because he's not available to play.

And he's not particularly impactful when he does. unless he's playing the grizzlies and puts up 38 points. You were there, right? When he dominated the grizzlies. Anybody can go back and listen to the episode, so I don't have to speak out of school here. In fact, there were listeners that caught that I said wingspan instead of standing reach when I mentioned that it was nine foot nine, right?

Right. Okay. But the whole point of that when I brought that up was me complaining. to you, I just watched a guy who has a 9 foot 9 standing reach get zero blocks. And my point was,

you have to actively try to not block a shot. If you have a reach that is almost to the rim, all you have to do is put your arms up in the air,

above your heads. Something of which he was obviously incapable or reluctant to do. I'm like, I got it. He just scored 30-something point. But they have no structure. And watching this guy on the defensive end was, I mean, it made me sick to my stomach, honestly.

And I don't know if you saw, but people can go find this. T.J. Oglesby, who does the, this is very reminiscent of the Brian Winhorse. Nobody from Dallas said anything. to me when I criticized Luca Donchich earlier this week, or I guess it was

last weekend, when they were getting their ass kicked by the Wizards at halftime. It's like 53 to or 73 to 50. They're down like 23 points to the Wizards. It was abhorrent. Their halftime show,

this guy Oglesby, he lit Mark Williams up worse than I have seen a player get lit up by a local broadcast. It was about the effort, right? He said, I've never seen a set. He's like pro college.

He said first they had to switch him off of Valentunis because he wouldn't play hard. Then he just gave up open three after open three. I mean, just torched him. And I'm like, yo, as someone who has been for many years on a local broadcast, I'm watching that like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, to me, that then means that's a thing there, that people are watching him and they are sick of this crap. And so that's the only thing. I'm not telling you, look, the guy is there's no question, talent-wise, and if he could put it together,

and if you could get him to be serious. It's not realized. Correct. Correct. The idea of what Mark Williams can be is valuable to the Lakers. what Mark Williams is remains to be seen. You still do this deal though. I still do this deal.

I think you do the deal, right? But I just want everyone to slow. I think when the Lakers get involved in stuff, people are so quick just to celebrate the brilliance of it. But this one, I think we've overreacted. Let's slow our role on putting Mark Williams in the Springfield Basketball Hall of Fame. To your point, I am going to make you laugh. So you know my longtime producer, John Rosa, in Memphis.

Rosa and I are both big card collectors and about save it. A couple of years ago, we go in together and we buy a box. Got a rookie Mark Williams. We buy a box of cards. In condition. And then you get like an autograph out of the box. You get two autographs out of the box. One of the autographs we got in the box was a Mark Williams rookie.

autograph. We then sent it in, got it graded. I can't remember what it was. Maybe like a PSA 9. It might have been a 10. I can't remember. Anyways, long story short, I wake up two mornings ago. Rosa has text me and he goes, look at this alert I just got.

And I was like, what? And it was from eBay, your item has sold. He goes, bro, I put that Mark Williams up for sale two years ago. someone bought it, someone's investing in the future. The second he got traded to the laser. That's exactly my point. And I said, I said, hey man, we should have up the price. He goes, I'm sorry.

I totally forgot it was on there. It sold for 150 bucks. It is not going to be worth 150 bucks in two years. It's at, hey, hey, Jacoby, it sat there for two years. And he text me. He said, hey, I forgot I even had this listed, but that, Mark Williams, we pulled sold. And I was like, really?

The Laker fan went on there, bought the Mark Williams. Another thing is, the centers that they were discussing, the centers that were associated with the Lakers as potential. And remember, Palinka admittedly said that the market for centers was pretty dry. Those are his words. And they ended up with Mark Williams. But there's Valichunus, Vucevich, Time Lord, the other Williams. And Mark Williams wasn't even in the discussion.

And I think that all three of those other options would have been better options for the Lakers. And I think one thing that Lakers fans need to know is that Anthony Davis was a defensive player of the year candidate, a top five finisher. Mark Williams, and I'm sure all Lakers fans have seen the stats, like literally your percentage around the rim gets better when Mark Williams is defending you. it gets better. He helps you score instead of deterring you from scoring. I mean, I guess the theory is he will try in L.A. and did not try in Charlotte. But I think that says something about you.

I guess. I guess. I mean, Davion Mitchell gets moved to the Miami Heat. PJ Tucker and a second round pick. Davy on Mitchell is one of those guys that everybody always liked because he's the kind of guy that picks you up 94 feet, harasses you. Great nickname.

Hasn't come into his own yet. No. Still, even though this will be team number three already. One thing I'll say about him, and I've talked about this, where first time I ever saw Davy on Mitchell, of course, this is after the Baylor National Championship and he gets drafted and he comes in to Sacramento. So sat on the court before the game. And I'm, I mean, I was absolutely in stunned disbelief at how small he is. Really? Yeah, he's small.

He is small for him. And I've talked to you about this before. It's really hard to be small in today's NBA. Like you, you really have to be like, and I think we are hurtling towards us in the next couple of years, the Morant's, the Brunsonsons, the, like, you're going to have to be so awesome to be able to get by in the NBA with a size disadvantage. Truly. And there's obvious exceptions.

I mean, you know, Dame and Brunson and some of the best guards are. They're all awesome. But they're so talented, especially offensively. And Mitchell, sometimes you have to admit when you were wrong. And I honestly thought that Fox and Mitchell were like a ideal backcourt. I was like, this is going to be great. You got the defensive guy. You got the offensive spark plug.

I was like, this is like, this is like Sacramento. is set and whoof, that did not last very long. No, he's a role-playing energy guy. That's it. That's what he is. Yeah, but it's, but a perfect guy for Pat. Now, this is a guy Pat Riley would love. Yes.

But he does, he does not contribute offensively. Like, does not. And it's not like, oh, he's not that great of a shooter. It's like, no, no, he does not contribute. Right now. He has, he's going to have to lock people down and get run out. Yes. Yes. Yes.

And you better have a lot of offense. a round. Phoenix Suns got off of Yusuf Nurkich's contract. Cody Martin, Vasily Michich, and a 2006 second round pick.

Of course, they moved a 2026 first round pick along with Nurkich. You know, Nerkich said he had not talked to his coach in months, so this is unsurprising. They had talked to his coach

in two months. You know, it was interesting what Phoenix was going to do because that Durant thing was so hot and heavy. over the course of the last 48 hours. Let's get into it.

And nothing happened. I will tell you, I have been told Memphis made a huge offer for grant. Yeah. Huge. Whoa. Furno. Phoenix was, 40 minutes into the podcast.

No, that's true. I mean, Bob Meyer said it on ESPN. Bob Meyer said it on ESPN. I don't know what the offer was. Come on. But they obviously.

It's also reported that, look, this is reported stuff to Kobe. I'm not speaking out of school. Memphis. and Minnesota. How about that one? Minnesota.

Yeah. They both took runs at Durant. Now, it was reported. What is it? All right. So what does a big offer from Memphis look like? I mean, I would imagine that it would be,

I would imagine it would be expiring contracts, multiple first round picks to get them out of hell over the course of the next couple of years. But I don't even know if they had, they'd have to trade like seven guys to bring back Durant's money. Yeah. Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. interesting. And that was one of the things. It's like if you can increase your title odds dramatically, then that's something you're willing to do. Otherwise, clean up the books for the summer. Yes.

And what's happening now in Phoenix is really interesting. And obviously it's been heavily reported. There was a potential three-team deal that would bring Butler to Phoenix and then Durant to Golden State. But Durant basically shut that down, right? I want to ask you, I have my own opinions. Why do you think this information came out this way and these decisions were made? I think that there's too many people that talk to Durant because they said Curry had the conversation with him.

That was reported as well. Yeah, the Curry talked to him. And they all got the impression, Kevin Durant is not going to be fine with this. Kevin Durant does not want to be here. And so at that point, when you get the level of people that know about it and are talking about it, then it becomes one of those things where it's impossible to stop the news from coming out. And the news is what the news is, which is they had an interest in possibly trading for Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant made it known he does not want to be there. He doesn't want to run that back. He doesn't want to go there. and I saw a conspiracy bill yesterday bring up. You know, my initial reaction was he doesn't want to be around Dremont again. He doesn't want to do that.

Like that, that was, he's had this experience. He did this and opted to leave. And he was miserable in the last year. And he left. And conspiracy bill's theory was there's still some harboring resent from him going back out there with a bad calf and tearing his Achilles. which I do not think is even like

I don't even think that that's like conspiracy it's just that whole last year from beginning to end was a debacle you have him fighting with Draymond you have it ending with him you know tearing the calf and the and the Achilles and whatever else and it's like I don't know

I mean like I'll say this about the Kevin Durant thing is it's a little bit about the Nico Harrison Lucas stuff which we've covered a lot is we we saw Kevin Durant and Draymond Green have an argument

at that Clippers game right? It was caught by the cameras. We saw it. So we always referenced that about the sort of tumultuous season that was that season when am I going to stay or am I going to leave.

But that's what we saw that happened in the two and a half hours that the cameras were pointed at him. Just imagine what happens outside of the eye of the public. And he made a decision not to stay in Golden State and he does not want to go back.

But now apparently he's upset. So you're the Phoenix Suns. I don't know what the path forward is for the Suns right now. I don't know how you get his name out there so much and then end up not moving him. Yes. I don't know what you think the outcome of that's going to be, but it's going to be poor. I do not think, I don't think he's on the Suns in two years. And I don't think Devin Booker's on the Suns in two years.

Durant will not be on the Suns next year. Interesting. He's got no year in his deal, right? Yeah. I do not think he will be a Phoenix Sun next year. Trade it in the offseason. Correct. Where?

Come on, Barno. I don't know. I don't know where he's going to be, but I'm telling you that like, God, it's just such a breach of trust, right? It really is. To have your name out there like that for 48 hours and everybody talking about you going elsewhere. and then there's these reports that he was blindsided.

He never even considered that he would be getting traded. And it's all. You know that you talk to everybody. Now they're going to be able to come back and they're going to say, hey, man, forget all those reports. Minnesota offered us a huge deal. We turned it down. Memphis offered us a huge deal.

We turned it down. We do not want to get rid of you. Don't buy all that crap. But, you know, to me, the hay's out of the barn, as they say. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. And when you're Kevin Durant, the last two days, he's been walking around with his phone in his pocket, and the phone vibrates. And he thinks to himself, what is it now? And where am I going to play basketball now?

And you can't undo that. Well, and the other thing is you for sure, you can't sell to me that you hung up the phone when anybody talked to you because I was about to go to Golden State until I told them, don't trade for me. So I know you wanted to get rid of me. Fine. You didn't trade me to Memphis or Minnesota. but I know you were trying to move me. And also, if I'm Kevin Durant, this is one of the ways that I feel,

don't solve your dumb-ass decision by trading for Bradley Beale with a no-trade clause. And you think the answer to that mistake is trading me? That's who I'm dealing with. Someone who trades for Bradley Beal, knowing he has a no trade clause, and you're going to fix that problem by trading me, Kevin Durant?

No. I don't want to be here. I think we've made it through. I mean, look, there's Kevin Porter, Jr. for Marshawn Bochamp that doesn't do anything to Jake La Ravia, moved to Sacramento. You love La Ravia. I did.

I like, I like Loravia, but I mean, honestly, I'm happy for him because he didn't get his extension this past year. And he was about to be the 12th man. Like in one, once, Once Vince Williams came back, once Gigi Jackson came back, once you have Jalen Wells and Luke Kinnard and all these guys. Yuki is the 12th man. Okay. So don't disrespect my guy Yuki like that.

Well, no, he's 15. Okay. He's 15. I mean, you got to remember he carried 15 now up to 17. But La Ravie was just never going to play. He's never going to play. So he might actually be able to get in a rotation in Sacramento and be able to get a contract from the rest of the way. He was not going to play in Memphis.

for the rest of this season. Do you expect Levine to continue the production that he had in Chicago and Sacramento? That production? No, just because there's going to be less shots than you would think. That's fair. Theoretically. What the hell are they doing, by the way? Chicago, you look at their roster today after all that.

By the way, there is one. Memphis offered the smart deal for Lonzo. For Lonzo. They turned it down. Yeah, I mean. And then they signed him up for two years and 10. million bucks a piece or whatever, which I just, I don't, I'm happy for Lantau. I just don't, what are they doing?

They got 50 point guards on that team. You know what? I'm glad there's a couple things I want to talk to you about because sometimes, like the Luca trade was so big. Then the Fox trade happens. And then Jimmy Butler's going to the Warriors. There's a step fangling, maybe Kevin Durant and this and that. And it seemed like such a very busy impactful deadline.

But some of the moves that weren't made, I want to discuss because I never thought that be sitting here and Cam Johnson would still be on the Nets. And I never thought that none of those players from the Jazz. The Jazz were still the same team. And I didn't think that Jeremy Grant wasn't even discussed. How about no Blazers? No Blazers. No Jazz, no Blazers.

And the Nets, like, they've still got Cam Johnson. Who contributes? The Blazers one is the one that just shocks me. Well, they're playing really well lately. I got it. If they weren't this hot, they're hot right now. If they weren't this hot, they would probably be much more open to doing deals.

And them winning these games, the them winning these games, I think actually hurts them long term. It's just odd that I don't know. What are they 10 of 12 now or something? They're like red hot. Maybe these teams just take their phone off the hook because we get to these trade deadlines

and you're like, why are Colin Sexton and John Collins still on Utah and why are Anthony Simons and Time Lord and all the Jeremy Grant and these guys still on Portland? And it's like, I just, I don't know. I don't know either. But the Blazers are one of the house. Maybe they just run the hardest bargains. They just run.

And Walker Castler, whose name's been out there for five years, even though he's only been in the league a couple. It's like, I just don't. It's always strange to me. It's like these teams at the bottom, and they have these veteran guys that do kind of stand in the way of their younger players, getting a lot of minutes and getting on the court for, you know, 30-something minutes of taking their lumps in many cases. I don't know. I don't get it. The Blazers, I think, are interesting.

There are six games below 500. They're not going to make the plan, but I don't know why they didn't make any moves. but I also don't know why they can't lose a game. Like they're on fire. They beat the Pacers, they beat the Kings. Like, they're absolutely on fire right now. We're at that time of year where they are better than you think they are. They're probably all trying to increase their trade stock as well.

But they are the team that these guys go to the club the night before they play them and just don't take them seriously. And now they're playing good enough basketball to catch. And now you can't do that anymore. You just don't. Yeah. Every Simon has 30 every night. There's always.

those teams, the ones that once you get there, like, they suck. This is one I can actually, right. I'm not going to stay out until three in the morning before I got to play the Southics. I'm not staying out until three in the morning before I got to play the thunder or whoever else. But like, there's these finite amount of teams at the bottom. It's like, all right, we'll be able to get by even if I act, act a fool of the night before. If you have the Brooklyn Nets on Sunday, you're going out until five in the morning on Saturday. absolutely.

You are. You just are. And I think the Hawks, the Hawks get like seven wins a year just by being in Atlanta. I mean, look, hey, do you think,

you think Houston went out before DeAngelo Russell did him in the night? Yeah. Well, did EMA say something about the Nets? I think EMA made, some sort of like slight disparaging comment about the Nets. They put it right on the billboard. They put it right on the billboard.

I cannot wait. Look, I am about to be going to number one versus number two in the Western Conference, night in Memphis. I can't wait. I thought that game was in okay, C. I had to come back with my tail between my legs because Memphis had missed, you know, oh, these Oklahoma City fans, they're ready for me, brother. They've been waiting for this moment because the last time Memphis at Oklahoma City played each other, John Conchard started at Power Forward. Hopefully Desmond

Bain can be back in the mix. And I would love to see Chad Holmgram back in the mix for Oklahoma City, but this will be the healthy version of a matchup that we have wanted to see this year. What time is that game? That games at 7 o'clock Central, eight year time. Oh, I'm going to get a babysitter. You know what? I might watch that at a bar, Chris. Memphis, OKC.

There you go. I might meet friends and close. We're going to see all these guys. The other thing is it would be a good night to do that anyway because all these guys, you're going to get to see like all these debuts. Not Luca. I know, but this weekend you're going to get to see 8.000. in Dallas. You're going to get to see Jimmy

and Golden State. There's going to be a bunch of debuts this weekend that'll be fun. There'll be a lot of fun. There'll be a lot of fun. I wish, I want to see Luca. I think Luca's going to play on Monday against the Jazz, right? That's what he said. I can't, February 25th, who, Mavericks, Lakers.

Amazing. This is, this is, this is, this is, this is wild. So I want to know right now, what do you expect to see in the Grizzlies Thunder game? I really don't know. There's part of me that says there's no reason for me to believe that Memphis will not play great. They have won 10 of 11. Unfortunately, that one was the one I went to with you in New York.

But they have won. They have been playing great. And recently, they have unlocked a completely different Morant. They started running this high screen and roll stuff, which has not been part of their offense this year. They just decided, okay, we're going to start running this high screen to roll stuff with Edie. And he has been, he has been happier and has been his old self for the last two games, which I think is perfect timing. Plus, you always have a settled down group locker room once.

Everybody makes it through the trade deadline. So I would be surprised that Memphis does not play great at home tomorrow night. I will tell you this, the arena will be a hornet nest. Who covers Shea? It's a great question. Because that's my problem when I look at this matchup. I'm like, I don't see a dancing partner for Shea. I think what will happen is they start out with Wells on him.

That's a lot. It's a lot. But he has done, he has played against, he's done it against Hardin. He's done it against Anthony Edwards. He's done it against a bunch of guys this year. Again, some nights to great results, some nights he's been thrown into not the fire, but actual hell. He wasn't thrown in the fires,

thrown in the depths of 80s. Yeah, that's my line always that I say to the guy next to me. I say, look, man, I understand throwing the kid into the fire. But you can't throw them into hell.

You can't put him in hell. You know what I mean? But say this, Dylan Brooks is in hell last night versus sand. Sometimes it's a sacred swim proposition, but you got concrete shoes on. That's right. This isn't going to work.

Well, that's a big one. I can't wait to talk to you about it. Yeah, no, it should be fun. We'll get to talk about it early next week. We made it through the trade deadline. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez, as always. And Jacoby, I'll talk to you next week. Thanks.

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