The Mismatch - Unpacking Joel Embiid’s Recent Comments on Ben Simmons, Plus Evaluating NBA Player Rankings and Six Teams to Watch This Preseason

Episode Date: October 1, 2021

Happy Friday! Joel Embiid unloaded the clip in response to rumors that Ben Simmons is done playing with him, so Verno and KOC dissect the most interesting parts of Embiid’s statement (0:45). Then they talk about the ESPN and Sports Illustrated NBA player rankings for the 2020-21 season (26:35) and the three teams they’re looking forward to watching in preseason (36:30). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? I'm JJ John Gstromski. And I'm Jason Gough, and if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the Big Apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shy Town with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests. Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines.

So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs, or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Friday from the wringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Chamer, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Carder, Kevin O'Konter, Kevin O'Kand-Kee and Kevin O'Keele. What's up this Friday? I understand you are live from San Diego, or live recorded from San Diego, which is the site of the Nets, the Nuggets, and the Clippers training camp. So a bunch of NBA teams there in San Diego. right now. Yeah, here. I drove down here from LA. First time in San Diego came for training. It was not expecting to until I heard about all these teams coming out, doing their thing, building team chemistry, having a good time, enjoying the, uh, what feels like air conditioning outside in San Diego this week. It's absolutely gorgeous. Chris, I'm very much enjoying the weather

in San Diego. There you go. For all those that always like, uh, try to guess about my age here, This is going to truly age me. I've been to San Diego one time in my life, and it was to cover the Super Bowl between the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Raiders of Oakland at the time. And it was after Gruden had gone to Tampa Bay, the Brad Johnson year. And that was my first time ever in San Diego.

And much like your experience, staying in the hotel, we had a balcony, at our hotel and I woke up in the morning and I walked outside and I'm like, how, how does everybody, and I know it's the answer is because it's so expensive, but like how does everybody not live here? Like,

I thought it was heaven. It was, I met people that live there that don't own shoes. They only own sandals, like open toes because they never. How do you not own? How do you not own a pair of shoes? They just didn't need them.

How do you not own a pair of shoes? pair of shoes. You should all, everything should own a pair of shoes. I don't know. I guess if you wake up every day and it's 73 with a light breeze. I mean, I wear shoes when it's nice outside. I don't know. I do. Do you wear sandals

when it's 70 degrees in Memphis? No. No. Okay. No. We also don't have a beach in Memphis though. We don't. We've got a river. As close as we get. That Super Bowl was a blowout, right?

Bucks just blew out the Raiders. Yes, it was a blowout. That was Super Bowl 37. I know that because the Patriots were in 38. Yeah. 36, 38, and 39. So the one between that with the Patriots with their three Super Bowl runs when I was just a little kid. That whole week, like, the Raiders had a lineman that had like gone over to Tijuana.

And like, I don't know, had this breakdown. It was Barrett Robbins. People could look up the story. And it was like this. I remember everybody talking about. I don't remember all that much from it except for I remember that huge story that came out about that. And then obviously you had the whole Gruden thing because he had gotten traded. You know, they had to give up draft picks and stuff.

And so it was like now he's there coaching against his old team. It was wild week for sure. But that was that whole gas lamp district and everything. everything down there. I mean, God, I love that place. I did. I haven't explored all that much. Oh, it's awesome. I've just been between here, here, here, and like the colleges where teams are practicing. So I haven't had all that much time to explore, but, you know, it's two and a half hours away now being in California. I'll be back 100 percent, do some more exploring. Yeah, San Diego is beautiful. I love it.

All right. So we are going to talk some training camp stuff. But first, you know, it's always interesting to hear the news that comes out of these different training camps because every day teams have different players that have microphones in their face. And yesterday, for the Philadelphia 76ers, it was Joe L. Embed, who had a microphone in his face. And he was talking about the Ben Simmons situation. We'll let you hear what he had to say right now. I've always been built along these needs. So it was kind of surprising to see, you know, I was say that even going back to I mean the reason we

saw out is you know we got rid of gym in which I think it was a mistake just to make sure that you know we he needed the ball on his hands and you know that's the decision they made but yeah like I said it is surprising

but I'm really focused on the guys out of you you know the situation is it's weird, disappointing, borderline kind of disrespectful to all the guys that are out here. All right, so we hear what Mbid had to say. Obviously, the headline that comes out of it, Kevin, is calling the Ben Simmons situation disappointing, borderline kind of disrespectful. But there was some other very interesting stuff in there that M. Bede had to say, which is obviously you feel like in part a,

response to the stories that came out both in the athletic and then what you had talked about, which was the whole Ben Simmons and Joel Embed has run its course. And you can hear a tinge of resent in terms of team building that has taken place with the Sixers, most importantly mentioning Jimmy Butler and losing Jimmy Butler along the way to this,

that, you know, Embed out. obviously pretty upset about this. For sure. I mean, I got to be honest, I think Joelle Embed hit the nail on the head with that quote. I appreciated the honesty and the transparency with everything he said. At Kyle Neubeck on Twitter, great Sixers reporter and analyst for the Philly Voice. He posted like a transcript of the entire quote.

Like Embed kind of went on for a couple of minutes. And I thought every word of it, I was like, dang, Embedd, he gets it. But also, wow, I'm surprised that he actually went all out there and said, yeah, you're telling me, we don't have shooters at one point. He's like, I shot 38% from three last season and I was the worst guy on the team from three. You know, he's like, we did have shooters around Ben Simmons. We did have him in positions to succeed. We did build a roster that can maximize his strengths. The one thing that I will say that I believe in Bede missed, because, you know, as I had in my report earlier this week on the ringer and Sam Amick had on the athletic,

The one difference here is with Ben Simmons is Embed was still the number one in Philadelphia. He was still the guy getting those low post touches. He was still the guy with all the spacing around him minus Simmons. What Simmons wants is to be in positions where he's, you know, has four shooters around him, no guy who's going to be posting up. And he's the guy always on attack where the system is built around him, not necessarily. The roster is built around him. Simmons and his team want the system.

built around him. So that's the difference between what Embed was saying versus what the Simmons Cam Juan. Is that right or not? I mean, I lean towards, it's not. I mean, it's disappointing in some ways, as he said. I think Simmons should be there and clearly Embed does too.

Well, and here's, to me, when I heard the quote, what fascinated me the most was the Butler portion of this, because that is a guy that is sitting back and saying without saying, hold on a second now.

You're not here at training camp. You're not part of this team. You're not around. And it's interesting that for the first time, because this has not been a narrative regarding this, Kev, for the first time, it is presented that the reason we don't have Jimmy Butler is because of you. Like, that's the first time we've ever really like kind of heard

that pinned on. And so just so I'm clear here, and I'm not putting words in his mouth. This is the exact quote. It's kind of surprising to me. We'll say that. Even going back to the reason we signed out, we got rid of Jimmy,

which I think it was a mistake, just to make sure Simmons needed the ball in his hands. That's the decision they made. Like I said, it is surprising. And that is, incredibly fascinating, right? Because that hasn't been a thing. It hasn't been a thing that that was the issue. Yeah, Chris, I mean, this is why this, a tweet yesterday, Sixers fans,

understandably so went wild over it. It's the first time in B. was that brutally honest about everything with his own thoughts. I mean, whether that's right or wrong. I mean, Jimmy Butler kind of wanted to go to Miami. It wasn't necessarily a mistake to let him go because he wanted to go. But I do think there was a factor there where maybe we don't know all the details necessarily with the decision by Jimmy Baller. Maybe Jimmy would have stayed if somebody else had been out the door, that guy possibly being Ben Simmons.

I'm just thinking through things allowed here because the fit, as great as it was, they were a couple bounces away from moving on in the Eastern Conference playoffs and very well could have won the NBA finals. That was a great Sixers team. Let's not discount what they did. But the fit was a little clunky at times. It was. So, I mean, I wonder if that was part of the equation and we just don't know about it. And here's the truth, Kev. It's the first time it has presented as a choice. And whether or not it was, Joel Embed frames it as a choice. when he says that's the reason. Basically, the reason Jimmy's not here is because we wanted the ball in his hands, right?

And so we extracted, that was the cost of doing business. And so we dedicated to Ben Simmons, cost me playing with Jimmy Butler, and now what? And now you're not even around. And so I don't know, who knows if it's fair or not? It's how he feels. and he obviously is not happy with the way this has gone down now. And most importantly, Kev, when you listen to those quotes, you hear what M.B. And you think about like the whole, could this get repaired?

Could he show up and it just be, okay, water under the bridge until they can find a trade? Like the more and more information that comes out, whether it's articles or Embed, that kind of signaled to me yesterday with those quotes from Embed. Like, they know what's done is done. And so you might as well just say what you feel because you're not worried about it anymore. You know, once a deal happens, we'll have more clarity on this aspect here. But there's a chance for Joel Lombie. This will be for the best.

There's a chance. There's a chance. Even if it's not Damien Allard coming back, even if it's not Bradley Beal, even if it's like a number of pieces. There's a chance. This is for the best for Joe Al-Lambide. And I think with him, like I said,

he is a dominant low-post player, arguably the best we have in the game today. Yokic is really the only other guy that you could argue is better than him because the passing ability. But purely as a scorer, Embed is just a force. Not having Ben Simmons in there as a floor spacer,

um, is going to help things. Having, But having, having potentially a point guard where you can use Embed as a screener will open up new dimensions of his game. Allowing Embed for that matter, if they really want to get funky here, letting him bring the ball up to court more often could open up new possibilities with his game. And I know it might sound like I'm getting a little crazy here, but we've seen the flashes over the years. Embed himself told me in an interview with for the ringer years ago. I think it was like 2017, 2018.

He's like, I consider myself a point guard. I want to be a guy bringing the ball up the floor. And Bid has done that in flashes. There's more that he can do with some roster changes without Ben Simmons. So for him, this could be for the best. All of it could be for the best. Let me, let me recoil on this. This is exactly why, you know, they tried to present all of the numbers.

So everybody always loves the numbers until, the numbers tell them something they don't like. And the numbers telling people something they don't like is that Joe L.M.B. and and Ben Simmons were awesome together. And Joe L.M.B. average damn near 30 points a game. The most a center has averaged since like Shaq. And if it weren't for missed games, being as part of the number one seed, he would have won MVP. I mean, so I have a hard time saying,

things are going to be so much better for him. Like, what? How better? Like, according to what? What's he going to do? He's going to average 35 points a game? He's going to... Chris, there's always, always room to be better.

He's going to be in a lineup that's plus 50 per 100 possessions. I mean, like, give me a break. What I'm saying, like, there's two ways to look at this, Chris. I think, first way from an individual basis, maybe and B, instead of averaging three assists per game, he could get. up to five or six. Maybe it's more playmaking opportunities. Where I would worry when it comes to like that MVP caliber, you know, player, it would be

on defense. How much does losing Simmons impact their defense? And this goes for both guys because Joel Embed is a dominant force in the interior. He allows Ben Simmons to defend the way he does on the perimeter. So these guys are an excellent. arguably the best defensive duo we've had in the league in years, Joel and Beat and Ben Simmons. People talk about the offensive,

you know, weird mismatch between those two. But on defense, those guys are perfect together. So it could hurt and beat on defense, but I do think it could even pump him up a little bit more on offense, Chris. I really do.

Like, there's always room to be better. So, like, we're talking about this guy. You said he's nearly 30, 30 points per game, this and that, elite efficiency.

I'm saying that like Joel and Bede can be even better than that with some slight tweaks, with some slight differences in the roster. And if you are bringing in like a dame, let's just say that were to happen. Blazers get off to a slow start. He demands a trade. Neil O'Shea, the best package that he's offered is Ben Simmons and a whole bunch of draft picks and young guys from the Philadelphia 76ers. And then you got Damien Lillard and Joel and Bede.

For the first time, for the first time ever, you're going to be able to run, pick, and roll with Joel Embed with a guy who can shoot off the dribble. Jimmy Butler wasn't that necessarily that type of guy. He slashed to the basket, drew files, got inside, kicked out. Damien Lillard can pull up from anywhere. For the first time, M. B's going to, would get to play with a guy like that. And that's where I think about that's a new dimension of his game, where we could see even more levels to Joel and Bid on offense than we have through the first five years

of his career. That's all I mean. But I do think, to your point, Chris, when it comes to MVP, It could hurt on defense. And, like, it's also hard to imagine things being even better on offense. But I believe it can be. Yeah, I just think, I think it's, I think it's unfair to say like, oh, well, think about how much better Joe LNB could be if he wouldn't have to play with Ben Simmons.

It's like, bro, what? That's like, I mean, like, Chris, that's just me saying like this, this guy, this guy can be even better. I don't see how that's like a, because he ever started. He's going to win MVP. Like, I mean, okay, fine, he could have been better. Yeah, but what's wrong with saying? A great player can be even better.

Everybody should be working on weakness. I worked on weaknesses this off season. You work on stuff. Like podcasters as players, players, it's easy to see improvements. Like players, whether you're an average player or a good player or a great player,

there's always ways to improve. And also the way that the team changes around you can lead to improvements or regression. You can get worse. Like, it's, that's the whole reason why Ben Simmons wants out. He's already a great player. He's an all defensive player. He nearly one defensive player of the year.

He's an all-NBA guy. He's an all-star. But he can be better if the system and the opportunity and the personnel is a little bit different. Will he be? I don't know. I mean, we'll find out like in a new situation. But he can be.

I think that's the whole thing for years with Russell Westbrook. Like we've always argued about that with Westbrook. It's not like Westbrook isn't a great player. I'm just saying with some slight changes, he could be even better. I don't see what's wrong with expecting more or projecting more. I didn't say it's bad to expect more. I'm just saying it's become this thing as if it didn't work together and that those guys couldn't maximize themselves because they played with each other.

And it was like they were the number one seed that won the most games. I'm with you. Guy almost won the MVP that worked well. I'm totally with you, Chris. They don't want. They don't want to play with each other. but it did work. 100% and I

understand where you're coming from because of my comment it might come off like I'm putting myself in that bucket. I'm not part of that bucket. These guys aren't a perfect fit, but it worked. This team had so much success over the years. Great regular season success.

Pretty good playoff success. I will listen to the argument though that it might, that once it gets to the playoffs and teams can scheme against you. That's when it, does highlight what is wrong with the fit. I think that's totally fair. And that's true.

And specifically with the Ben Simmons portion. I agree. And Beed himself said it in that quote, I've done what I can do spacing the floor. Yeah. And Beed for a five is a very good shooter. And last season he had the best year of his career shooting the ball. Like this guy has done everything he can to best compliment Ben Simmons.

I think, I think three, four, five years ago when this core was in its infancy, you could say that the fit was poor. But the way in which they both developed their games, respectively, Ben Simmons as a defender, and then Joel and Labede just, I mean, he's unstoppable. He's gotten better every year of his career on the low post. He's gotten better every single year of his career in every way on both ends. These guys have made it work, and it's a credit to them for improving in their respective ways. The only problem is Ben Simmons has not improved enough on offense.

That's the big issue here. It's really about Ben Simmons. Given the way this is all played out, I think, you know, you can't go back in time. I think Brett Brown, I think it's fair to say deserved a little more grace

than he got from people. You know what I mean? As how come, I'm just curious. Like, why? I mean, I don't disagree, but why? Because you see what they, we was dealing with.

You know what I mean? You see what he was dealing with now? Ben Simmons. Yeah. You see what the deal was now? Did Doc Rivers do any? Did Doc Rivers do any? do better? Did Doc Rivers do better?

You mean in terms of handling the personality or the player? Yeah, does Doc Rivers? Did Doc Rivers do better with that team? I mean, they were one shot away from possibly playing in an Easter conference finals under Brett Brown and they've gotten

waxed under Doc Rivers. So, how much worse did he do? I haven't seen the Netflix documentary on Brett Brown. What is the Netflix documentary? Doc Rivers. You know, it's about coaching.

You haven't seen that? Oh, God. He does. He's got podcast. He's got podcast. He's got Netflix, Doc. He's got the whole thing about being great coach. So I did not know.

Oh, the playbook. Netflix. Yeah. It's not the, all I'm saying is it's not the easiest situation to coach it. Okay. So he had an episode, Doc Rivers are coaches rules for life.

Doc Rivers shares the unifying philosophy that inspired Boston's championship team. Yes. Okay. And discusses his response to Donald's journalings racism. Well, I can see why Doc Rivers gets a documentary, but Brett Brown doesn't because Doc Rivers has coached for 20 years. He won a championship. I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm saying, I'm saying, Chris, on Netflix, you get to watch Squid Game. Oh, gosh. On Netflix, Chris. Are you watching Squid Game, Chris? You know who you know who recommended Squid Game to me? Jared Jackson Jr. I asked him what he's been watching. And his attempt to describe what that show was to me was just abhorrent.

He was like, you know, so it starts off. He's like, it's a bunch of people get shot like right at the very beginning. And I'm like, what are you watching? He's like, it's awesome. It's number one on Netflix right now. He's like, you should check it out. And I was like, I don't even know what you're talking about. It's crazy. And then I went and looked at, I watched the trailer. And in fact, it was, right? I mean, it seemed as if there were people getting shot. It's a South Korean show. Yes, it's fantastic. It's really, really good.

I'm three episodes in, so anybody listening to this, please don't spoil it for me. You love it. Please be a good friend. It's fantastic. Yeah, I'm really enjoying it three episodes. And it has shades of battle royale, a Japanese movie from years ago, or Hunger Games, who everybody knows here in the United States. And also, there's some movie that I saw. on Netflix or something years ago.

I can't remember the name of it, but it was people like trapped in a classroom or something where they had to play some games to escape or something like that. I forget what it was called, but it was pretty good. But South Korean cinema is fantastic, Chris. You love it. Seriously.

Yeah. I mean, you got you got old boy from years back. You got Parasite recent years. Just one of the best movies I've ever seen Parasite. you got some movies like, I saw the devil. Have you ever heard of that movie, Chris? No. It's like an action thriller movie.

Man from nowhere. I'm a big fan of South Korean cinema. I have been for many years now. Netflix is what really was like the gateway drug for South Korean cinema over the years. So yeah, it's cool to see people, you know, internationally liking Squid Game now. My original point was Doc Rivers, people think he's so good enough coach to require a Netflix documentary or you know

someone that people would listen to and not even he was able to get it to work. That was my point. That was my point. Right? And now you see you know, as it's come to a head, he wasn't able to fix it either. I mean, obviously this is a catastrophe right now

with what's going on with them. And last thing on this, it's fair to say we believe if I saw Ben Simmons in the 76ers jersey again, it would be shocking to me. At this point, given how this is played out. You know, speaking of Simmons Sixers jerseys, I saw a tweet get retweeted across my timeline yesterday of this guy.

He tweeted out at Ben Simmons, like, since you want to act like a big baby, from now on, I'm wearing your jersey like a diaper. Oh, no. He's got like a diaper, huh? He's got like the jersey on upside down. legs through the arms. It's a hell of a picture. True story.

True story. So I saw online that there were a bunch of stores that are like selling them like 50% off, 75% off. Really? Oh yeah, yeah. People are getting rid of these in Philadelphia. So one of my buddies that works with me on the show, Devin, is going to cover the Memphis football game. And they are playing Temple, which is in Philadelphia. this weekend.

And my mission to him, I told him you have got to go get me a discounted 75% of Ben Simmons jersey somewhere in Philadelphia. And I'll wear it on the mismatch. If there is a, yeah. Yes. If I was like, I love it. Look, go up there. If you can find one of these places where it's massively discounted, I was like,

nobody in Philadelphia is buying it. And I was like, it's going to take an outsider to go buy it. So go get me a Simmons Philly jersey while you're up there. So maybe I'll have one for Tuesday's mismatch. That's my hope. This past week, when the season is about to start, there are always a million lists that come out. And the ones that get talked about the most are the player rankings. And top 100s for a couple of different major sites came out.

Sports Illustrated put out theirs, ESPN put out theirs. And just focusing on those two, one of the things that struck me, Kevin, from looking at those lists yesterday and kind of lining them up, I will say just right off the bat, ESPN did not include Kauai Leonard in that ranking as for this upcoming season because of the injury. Sports Illustrated still had him in there. But the lists are virtually identical. You can switch up some of the numbers and rankings of the individual players. But my larger point is this, and I wanted to see what you think about this, that every year we always get into, he's a top 20 guy in the league. He's a top 30 guy in the league.

And then most importantly, he's a top 10 guy. in the league. That gets said a lot. And, you know, if you listed off all the guys that people say are top 10 guys in the league every year, you could probably get to a pretty big number. But this year, I kind of feel as if there actually is a consensus top 10 players. in the league and that when you do say for the first time in as long as I can remember that if somebody said he's a top 10 player in the league that everyone I don't want to say everyone because there's always people that aren't going to but like 90% would agree with that

and they are Janice LeBron Durant Curry Jokic, Luca, Hardin, Damian Lillard, Joel Embed, Anthony Davis. Now, I suppose you could try to throw in Paul George or Jason Tatum or, you know, there's some other guys, right? But I would say that it is very, very, very, very, very difficult for anyone to put together a top 10 list that would exclude any of those. guys. That's how I think about it, right? Who would you drop out of that list? And so, do you agree with this? I mean, like, that maybe for the first time, the top 10 players in the league are ones that, you know, 90, but almost unanimously agreed upon. No, definitely, Chris. I mean, I think with these rankings, I tend not to, you know, stress as much about players.

rankings on ESPN or Sports Illustrated or anywhere, as much as NBA Twitter does. But with that said, I think the top 10 players, you can order them however you want to. I would agree. I would agree that this is appropriate with the list that those publications put out there, that there should indeed be a consensus with those top 10 as of now. How you order them, I mean, we could argue for hours and hours and never get anywhere about how you order those guys. But I think like let's just pull up ESPN's list right now.

They did not have Kauai on their list, as you said, because he's injured. But the guys they have right after that, 11, Beal, George 12, Paul 13, Tatum 14, Booker 15, Butler 16. Some of these guys, you could see them pushing into the top 10. At some point, Tatum especially, like if he were to take another leap forward, maybe if Trey Young were to take a leap forward, Donovan Mitchell, some guys like that. But they're not top 10 guys right now based on all those others that are above them. So I'm totally with that.

It's kind of odd, right? I think that's fair. It's kind of odd because it feels like once you get past 10, I think the argument from like, say, 11 to 30. Oh, yeah. That's where if you, that's where it gets murky. You say he's one of the best 30 players in the league or whatever. If you just say that offhand and then somebody were to sit down and list 30 guys.

Now, it might get a, you know, with Kauai being out, it makes it a little bit easier because he wasn't out in one of the list, as you mentioned. the SI list did rank Kauai and they put him 10 and then they put Lillard 11 and so you would have the argument Kauai's got to be in there if he's healthy and so who then do you push down to 11 but just for this upcoming season with Kauai Leonard we don't need we don't need round even numbers either though I mean at the top 11 the 11 elite that's fine there's nothing wrong with that but if we're saying he's a top 10 player in the league I think it's agreed upon and I don't know if that ever happen.

You know what I mean? Like I don't know. I suppose there's somebody out there that says, oh, no, you know, whoever. My favorite player should be there instead of this guy. But I really find it difficult to believe that you're coming up with the top 10 players in the league list and leaving one of those guys off of it. Yeah.

Tough. That's, I mean, and it means, I mean, obviously the league's in great shape. For sure. Oh, 100%. Those 10 guys, any one of them, if they won the MVP this upcoming year, would be wildly unsurprising to anyone.

Are you, are you at all surprised both of them had Kevin Durant ranked number one? No. I'm not. I'm not either. I'm not surprised. Kevin Durant was unbelievable,

but Kevin Durant does have to stay healthy for an entire season. I think I thought Janus would be number one on these lists after winning a title and scored 50 points in an elimination game. What do you want? Not 49, not 51, 50.

So I don't know, I don't know what you can do. Right? Yeah. I mean, and by the way, his team beat Kevin Durant's team. So, very close. Right? It was close. I wonder if those 10 players, I'm going to pull up MVP odds.

Okay. There is one player that is not there in the top 10 consensus rankings that we mentioned that actually is in the top 10. Trey, Tatum, one of those two? It is, it is Trey Young. Trey. He is in the top. top 10 in odds for MVP, and actually right behind him are Devin Booker, James Hardin,

and Anthony Davis, and Hardin and Davis are both in that top 10 list. So, Trey Young is the only one, he is the only of the players that is not listed as a top 10 player in the league in these lists, that is a top 10 player according to MVP. odds or at least best chance to win MVP. And those are obviously not the same thing. They play with, you know, Trey Young. If you put James Hardin in his situation, James Hardin would have greater odds.

James Hardin, his odds are going to get tamped down by the fact that he's on a team with the guy that they just ranked number one in Kevin Durant, right? I think, I mean, I just pulled up the fan dual odds here. They got Luca as the favorite, Benyana's, Katie, Embed, Curry, Dame, LeBron, Yokitz, Trey, Hardin. and then 80, 11th, Booker 12th, Tatum 13th, Mitchell 14th, George 15th. I like, I like, if you're picking sleepers, I like Tatum plus 2,900.

What if the Celtics exceed expectations and he takes a leap forward? I like Booker plus 2,800 as a sleeper as well. What if the Pelican, Zion, plus 42, I'm just kidding, Chris, I wanted to get your face. I wanted to see your face change. That's all. He looked disgusting like someone let out a stanky fart in the room. That was Chris Vernon's reaction right there when I said that. It's going to be a matter.

It's going to be a matter of time until Zion is a top 10 player in the league. And I mean, he needs to stay healthy. That's for sure. Yeah, got to stay healthy. And also get better on defense too. That's a big part of the equation here. And that's also one of the reasons why like Dame is in the. the eight to 12 range in a lot of these rankings and not the Steph range because

dame is a much worse defender than step and curry fair enough preseason is going to be starting kevin every year i kind of get excited like oh the preseason's coming get to watch basketball again and then i go to games and it's about the third quarter and i'm like oh i remember why why preseason is so lame. And so it can get better towards the end when teams are trying to ramp up for their season. And you may catch some games here and there where they're trying to work out kinks

or if they've got new rosters, maybe they log some more minutes together than you would typically see. But preseason, you know, you're stripping away competition, you know, the fact that guys care who wins and loses in the game. They're out there trying to not get injured, getting, you know, get some run in, play with each other a little bit, and then, you know, get in shape even more so, NBA shape.

But there's going to be games that are going to be on, and we're certainly going to be paying attention to the different things that happened in the preseason. And so let me couch this going in by saying, I know the preseason is lame. Everybody knows the preseason is lame. But if you were going to care more than you normally would, it would be for these three teams that if you saw them on, maybe you'd watch a little bit longer than you normally would.

a preseason game. We're going to give our three teams. You want me to start or you want to start? I'll start with the Sacramento Kings. Mr. Vernon, the Kings. You want to know why? I want to see their three guard lineup with Fox, Halliburton, and Mitchell.

I want to see that. I want to see your guy, Marvin Bagley. I want to see what he can do with this new look roster. Um, and they just got a lot of fun guys on their team, man. Uh, I mean, even Jemias Ramsey deep off their bench, King coming off their bench, Met two. They got some fun young guys who were pretty good college players, uh, just want to see if some of them can pop, um, but mostly, I mean, the real, the only reason actually is

the three guard lineup. Uh, that, that's primarily why I would tune in for that. And to be honest with you, Chris, by the second half of that game, I'm playing war zone. I know. I understand. Look, look, look, we're going into, we're going into this telling you, we're not going to try to sell you on the preseason being interesting. We're trying to find reasons. And, you know, for the most part in the preseason,

you either want to see teams with new rosters or teams with new players, like rookies. So it's the first time you're seeing them, much like Summer League, you know, you get to see these guys for the first time. And so, like you, I pick you. I picked a team that's not supposed to be a good team, but for preseason purposes could be much more fun to watch. And that is the Houston Rockets.

And that is because they were fun in the summer league. A bunch of young guys on that team. Like you don't have like Schengoon, especially with John Wall not doing anything. You don't have like old guys in the West. Like, you're not going to tune it in, and all of a sudden you're going to be watching DJ Augustine playing a lot. You're going to be watching Kevin Porter Jr. You're going to be watching Jay LaGrene.

You're going to be watching Shengun. You're going to be watching Josh Christopher, who made Kevin Porter. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that the first guy I said? I said Kevin Porter. I don't know. I think I said Kevin Porter, Jr.

I get this Marriott, Walmart internet connection here, Chris. There might be some stuff. You know, you know, one thing about Marriott, I got to say, I think all hotels, there should be water bottles in the bedroom when you get in your hotel. That should be like a prerequisite for all hotels. A water bottle. Like you're thirsty. You came from a trip,

a flight or drive. There should be water bottles. I went down to the front desk, Chris. And I was like, I get a free water bottle. And like for my room. And they said,

oh, you have to buy them. I said, but you can go to the gym and fill off one if you, if you got a bottle. So I did that. They charge like four bucks for a little, well,

little Desaani ball. Come on. That's San Diego for you. What an upcharge. Wow. That's unbelievable. I say Houston simply because they got these young guys. And most importantly, Jalen Green, Jailie Green is fascinating to me.

You know, he's got the look. He's got the swag about him. And he's the first guy that I can remember getting picked second overall that, like, has a massive chip on his shoulder about it. You know, like, you see these guys like, like Draymond and they can remember every single player that was drafted ahead of him. Like, bro, you've only got one guy that was drafted ahead of you. But it, he like, it bothers him.

He was not the number one pick in the draft. And like, he's doing this whole, I got something to prove, you know, I guess. I guess you could do the nobody believes in me if it was just the Detroit Pistons that liked another player better. but Jalen Green truly believes that he was the best player of the draft and he's going to prove to everybody that he was the best player of the draft. And so just his whole plight this year and how many points, I mean, if there was ever a chance for a guy to put up crazy-ass numbers as a rookie on a rat team, he's got it.

He's got it because he's going to have free reign. You said in passing the team that I'd be wanting to watch next, the Warriors. partially because of James Wiseman, the number two picked the year before that, partially because of comminga, see how he does, Moses Moody,

partially to see if Jordan Poole can continue doing what he did to close last season. Never mind just all the veterans that they have on that roster, the stars like Steph and Dremond and the role players, Igwadala back, our guy, my guy, Otto Porter Jr.

Otto Porter. And also, you know, you didn't mention it there, Chris, but on the topic of water bottles. Remember my escape from Oracle Arena years ago, right? I fell on the backpack full of water bottles that I stole from the arena. That's right. Didn't steal. I took them. Nobody else was going to take them.

By did. I needed them from my hotel room. Serious about water, Chris. Serious business. I'll tell you this. Wiggins will be able to tell you how to get out easier next time. Just to ask your guy, Andrew. He knows how to get out of Oracle Arena.

Yeah. He's going to be leaving a lot. It seems like, I don't know. I guess we'll see what comes to that. We'll see what happens. My second team, as I said, it's usually either teams with young players or teams with new rosters is the Bulls. Just because I want to see what it looks like when they throw it all together. If you got this projected lineup where it's Lonzo Ball and DeMarter Rosen and Zach Levine and Patrick Williams and Nikola Vucevich,

like does that work? Like how does that even look playing together? I'm fascinated by it, right? Those have all been take away. Williams is the one guy that like moves the ball and obvious, I guess you could say, a lot of moves the ball too, right? The other three,

they've been like leading shot taker guys within the last two seasons. And so this isn't exactly a big three with the Rosen, Levine, and Vucevic. But those are leading shot-taking players for their respective teams, none of which were good. None of those teams were any good. And now Billy Donovan is charged with taking three guys that were the guy, the guy that would take the last shot in the game, the guy that would on a lot of nights, lead your team at field goal attempts. And figuring out how to play together while all the while being flanked by Lonzo and a second year player in Patrick Williams.

And then you've got that bench with Caruso and the other things that they've added. I'm just, I'm fascinated by, I don't, I feel like they're not going to be average. Like it's either going to work and they're going to be a lot better than I expect them to be or it's going to be a train wreck. Chris, what do you think about Zach Levine leaving his agency for Clutch before this season? He was at BDA. The agent left BDA, I believe, to start his own thing. And he left there for Clutch before a big year for the Bulls, before his free agency next off season where he'll be in high demand.

I mean, that to me is like a factor here for Chicago. If they underwhelm with all of these moves and all of the. contracts and they committed. I mean, there's a lot of pressure on the boys. Oh, yeah. There's a, like this may be more than anybody because of the talent that is Zach Levine, like of the non-championship contenders. They, they, like you said, they're not going to be average.

They'll be like really, really good or underwhelming. They better be really, really, really good to retain Zach Levine. Like, they better be. They can't be average. I don't see how that fits. I have a very difficult time seeing how that fits. Now, am I surprised? he left for clutch.

When you fill in the blank with any player you want to mention to me, Kevin, and you can ask me, and keep this in mind over the next five to ten years, hopefully we're doing the show the whole time. The answer I am going to give you is no when you ask me, are you surprised they left for clutch? Yeah. I mean, with the way they are in many ways running the league,

honestly. I mean, look at the, the teams and look at how teams are assembled and look at the different moves that are made throughout the offseason and you find out so many of them, how many of them have a connection to. And when we're talking, you just mentioned the Levine thing, you just think about the different subjects that we've even talked about today, not the least of which is the Ben Simmons situation.

They're in the middle of that right now, you know? I mean, it's just they're going to represent half the league feels like at some point, right? And so, no, I'm never surprised. I think that they probably give, I think there's a lot of guys that probably think, hey,

I want leverage. This is how I can get. leverage. These guys are leverage guys. These are player empowerment guys. And if I want to dictate where I'm going to play, if I want to dictate what my team is going to do, if I want to dictate what market I want to go to, and I'm not here to argue good or bad on that, that's the truth of the matter. They have a power now, and they are able and have been able to dictate where players play out their careers, where they get traded to, how much they sign for, on and on. And if I'm a player in the league, having that type of power on my side, I think you could do a

lot worse. And so I'll never be surprised. Look, the job is to serve the players. And they have done an outstanding job of that. by and large, we'll see how the Simmons, the Simmons thing could be a problem. It could. We'll see how it plays out for him.

And we'll see if it costs him an immense amount of money to end up in a better situation for him in his mind. And we'll find out if it is in the end, a better situation. But they've done a lot of, they've done a lot of work for their players to be put in positions that their players are happy about. And so no. Yeah.

I want to be surprised either, you know, with any player. And you said in passing there, hopefully five, 10 years from now, you asked me this question. That's right. The answer will still be now. I hope in five to 10 years we're still doing this. Chris, I can't believe this is about to be our sixth season. Our first show that we ever recorded together was October 4th, 2016. Oh, wow.

So the anniversary. It'll be. Our next show. Yeah, yeah. I think next Monday is the fourth. So if we record Monday night or Tuesday morning, whatever it is, that'll be the anniversary show. That's hard to believe our six season together.

Five years. Five years is Monday? Yeah, five years and then our six season coming up. That's crazy. It's pretty nuts. All right. Last team for me. Another young team Orlando.

I love Sugs. You know I love Sugs. I like Cole Anthony, even though he was crapping the, how about Fultz? You see there was a little clip. There was a little clip of Fultz taking a free throw and it looks smoother than ever. I want to see him taking jump shots. If anybody has clips of Markell Fultz taking jumpers this off season, please send them to me. Please tweet them at me.

Yeah, figure that out. Please tweet them at me. I want to see Fultz's jumper. That's what I'm looking forward to. You got to figure that out. Fultz and Anthony and Sugg. and you know what I mean? They got all these guys that clearly all think they're going to have the ball in their hands,

but they're not going to have the ball at that they get all. And, you know, they've got some fascinating young players on their team for sure. So, and everybody that plays for them is young. So just, just wanted to say real quick. Markell Fultz, I can see plus 8,000 for him as most improved player of the year. Gosh. Just throwing it out there, Chris. Markle Fultz comes back.

He's not a good situation for it with them drafting a point guard number four. I know. I know. I'm just throwing it out there. It faults comes five. Yeah. It Foltz comes back. This is the biggest if we've had on this podcast.

If Markle Fultz comes back with a reliable jump shot. I'm basing this statement of solely one clip of him shooting a free three. You know who supported mine. You know who supported my most improved? Did you see Ty Lou going, going on and on about Terrence Mann? Team in, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go.

Yep. Let's go. Yeah. My third team, this is probably going to infuriate everybody. 29 fan bases. It's the Brooklyn Nets because I'm picking one team where I can watch in the fourth quarter and see quality basketball because of the amount of depth that they have on their roster and here's why here's why chris because with the brooklyn nets regardless of their

opponent i don't know their preseason opponents off the top of my head but regardless of the opponent i know that if i'm watching the nets i'm getting quality opponents to see young players go against so regardless of the opponent nets have so much depth on their team you're going to see Cam Thomas, De Ron Sharp, some of their young guys playing fourth quarter minutes against reserves for the opponent. So that they to me could be a quality team to actually watch for seeing how some young players do against them. That that's my reasoning. You're going to see the Nets plenty of times on national TV. It's not because of the starters.

It's because of the depth and how it could be impactful in the second half of games. Okay, fine. That's my, that's my deep reasoning that's still going to infuriate every other team, team fan base, because they're probably finals favorites. Okay, fine. Then I'm getting, no, then I tell you what, because you brought up depth, and I didn't even think about this,

because you brought up depth, and so that's the players that will be playing in the second halves or fourth quarters of these games, I've decided to change my answer to Los Angeles Lakers so that I could watch an reenactment of the 2014 All-Star game

with Ray John Rondo, Dwight Howard, and Carmelo Anthony. Are they going to be close to that guys? Rondo Anthony and Dwight Howard. I could literally watch the 2014 All-Star game in the fourth quarter of Laker games if they are going to use their depth. By the way, first preseason game for the Nets against the Lakers Sunday, October 3rd on NBA TV. Tune in.

Did they know that the 2014 All-Star game is coming off the bench for the Lakers? Yeah. seven years later? It could be a garbage time of the finals preview. That's what it could be. I don't know. I don't think there probably be much garbage time in the finals. There's usually not unless the spurs are playing the heat.

Ha ha. All right. Last thing before we get out of here. And this depressed me because it seems as if most of the time when I see the headline that the NBA is changing a rule, I get super excited. And then I saw NBA rule change and I clicked on the link and it was like, now coaches aren't going to have to use challenges or they can challenge. They're talking about the last two minutes and out of bounds plays and that those

were like kind of autos. and it was just kind of up to the ref. And now I read it and I'm like, oh, great. Because we don't have a big enough problem with the end of games taking forever. Now, every time the ball Karam's out of bounds, are we going to get to go to the replay monitor and everybody sits there for a half an hour before we figure out whose ball it is?

and then we're able to finish the game. Like, I don't know. I was not thrilled. I was not thrilled to see that, read that. Because it just came off to me like, oh, man, we could have more stoppages in these games. Yeah, Chris, I mean, hopefully with any rule changed by the NBA here, it ends up speeding up the end of games. The last thing we need is for basketball games to get slower, drug in the mud even more. and last 20 more minutes than they already do.

Hopefully this rule change actually helps. Maybe coaches will be out of challenges so they won't be able to challenge those out of bounds plays at the end of games. But we'll see how this all works out. All right, Kevin, well, we are not far away from this NBA season. We're at least going to preseason games starting this weekend.

Thank you for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. Thank you to our executive producer, Sasha Eschal, as always. and we will talk to you next week. Yeah, Chris, I'm looking forward to it and also just want to say, Paulo Yugetti announced on Twitter that today is his last day at the Ringer. He said in the tweet, it's been almost five years since he started as an intern. I remember Paulo as an intern. He's grown so much and done so much great work with us at the Ringer,

and I'm very excited for Paulo and what's next for him. Best of luck, Paulo.