The Mismatch - Warriors Are Champions Once Again, Disappointment in Tatum, and Memories About Fathers

Episode Date: June 17, 2022

Congratulations to the Golden State Warriors for beating the Boston Celtics and winning the NBA championship! Verno and KOC give their first reactions to the Warriors winning their fourth title in eight years (01:21). Even though Boston reached the Finals, KOC believes the Celtics are still ahead of schedule because of how young the core of Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are (14:45). Verno also points out how rare it is for young stars to win it all in the NBA. Speaking of youth, the Warriors still have the young depth that could keep them Finals contenders as Steph and the rest of the core grow older (24:15). The guys reminisce about going to sporting events with their fathers before Verno asks KOC how Celtics fans will look back at this season (36:53). Lastly, KOC gives an update to his NBA draft board and briefly discuss the Mavs trading for Christian Wood (01:08:34). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Yo, Rob Harvilla from 60 Songs That Explain the 90s here to inform you that we are back with 30 more songs because the 90s were super long and had a ton of rad music. Please join us every Wednesday for more 60 songs that explain the 90s only on Spotify. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Join to me as he does every Friday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, A.K. Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.O. Convert. Kevin O'O. Conflict. Kevin O'O. Burnow. The NBA finals are over, man. What a journey. What a good time. Our NBA season is over.

The Golden State Warriors are the NBA champions. I was surprised that they got it done on Boston's home floor last night. Maybe I shouldn't have been. But I thought we were probably going to get a game seven. It seemed like we had two pretty evenly matched teams. and so one of them defeating the other three games in a row seemed a little far-fetched to me, but what an unbelievable effort out of the Warriors last night. You were there in the arena, so I want you to take me through everything last night.

I'm talking from the time you got there through that game to the end and the celebrations that are going on and everything else. What was it like to be there to watch someone win the title? I thought Logan Murdoch summed it up, you know, pretty well on the piece he published on the ringer this morning where it kind of felt like a family reunion after the game. You know, when they were doing the trophy presentation, I went on on the court and like it was just like a lot of player families hugging and like, you know, kind of like, oh my God, so good to see you, that type of thing. And yeah, I mean, even on stage, all the kids there, I mean, this dynasty has gone on for so long, four and eight years. their whole lives have changed since the beginning of it. Obviously, a lot of them having children,

but that's sort of just the way it felt, at least after the game. But, you know, I think even in general, like those guys up on the press conference, up on the stage for their press conferences, Steph talking about the ESPA people saying, oh, have zero rings, the rest of his career. And Clay talking about the Jackson Jr. tweet, you know, strength and numbers.

This team clearly, like, they listened, they watched, they read, and they used everything as an additional motivator on top of, you know, how you naturally are as an athlete. But, I mean, it was just a, it was just definitely a feeling of, of continuation after the game with this Warriors team where I don't think they're, I don't think they feel that they're done yet. So the Celtics came out blazing. They hit them with this run to start the game.

Crowds going absolutely insane. Dude, it was loud, Chris. It was really loud earlier. Well, when they go to the break after that, like, 10. 10-0 run, I'm like, oh boy, the Warriors might be in for it tonight. And then by the end of the first quarter, the Warriors have a reasonable lead. And it feels like that crowd is like, what the hell is going on? It's like the wind came out of the sails so fast.

And I know what that's like to be in an arena like that. it, you have like this overwhelming feeling of, oh, no. Like, I really thought that this is going to be the night we were going to smack them around and get this thing to a game seven. I've talked myself into it all day. And now we're at the end of the first quarter. And somehow, despite that early pandemonium, we're losing. and then this like feeling of dread comes over you

and then anytime your team does anything good, you're trying for a moment to get them back into it. But I'm interested in hearing, could you sense that like by the time they got to the end of the first quarter? Because I actually text my buddies and I'm like, not only did they weather the storm, they're up in this thing. And now Boston is out of sorts.

Then they start throwing the ball all over the play. and it's a mess. Yeah. And the crowd, I mean, they're sitting on their hands, right? Just,

and groaning. You know what I mean? At every, like, Steph Curry's out like, you can hear it. Right? I mean,

I mean, and when Draymond Green knocks down the three at the end of the, that was the end of the first quarter, right? Yep. I'm like,

okay, yeah, you're in trouble. If this is happening, if this is happening, you're in trouble. Well, that's what the warriors do.

That's what they've always done, is they, they make you feel helpless where, you know, no matter what you do, no matter how much preparation you have, you can still, you know, race around a screen when Steph Curry is relocating and you could be within an inch of him and he can still drain three-point or you can do everything right and still be wrong in the end. That's what the Warriors do. And I felt like in that fourth quarter, so Warriors, I mean, like Celtics have a great second half run to at least make it competitive. They bring it within 10. And there's this.

feeling of, whoa, are we about to get a comeback? Are we going to get a close finish here? And then the Warriors just take those punches and they keep punching back. And I think at one point in that fourth quarter, I talked to somebody around the Celtics team. And they said to me that there was that same feeling on the Celtics bench that you described from the crowd where it's just like, here we go again. Here we go. I mean, there's just nothing to do about this no matter what we do.

You know, and I think we kind of saw that happen in the fourth quarter. And they were totally done in. We talked about this throughout the series. It's a matter of, I said early in the series, I said, Kevin, I really feel like you're going to be able to tell me what the turnover numbers are. And I'm going to be able to tell you whether or not the Celtic played well. Yeah. You know.

And that turned out to be damn true, dude. Well, and they are, because it's a little different with the Warriors. because though they did not, and they really started taking care of the ball as the series went on, they're a team that has been able to have success while being a bad turnover team. In fact, in this whole damn run, they're always.

And they pass the ball a million times. You know, it's something they track, and they turn the ball over a ton. They're always at the bottom of the league or certainly in the bottom half of the league. Like, they exist in that type of system where they can withstand turning the ball over and they can still win games. Boston cannot.

They are a team that has to have that defense set up to be at their apex, and that defense cannot get set up if they're chucking the ball around, right? And so many of theirs, it's not like throwing the ball out of bounds. You know, we talked about this earlier, or dribbling it off your foot where they're dead ball turnovers. They're live ball turnovers. And they did it the whole series, and they were made to pay for it, because now they're having to get in scramble mode.

And Boston was just an absolute mess with the ball last night. And it was the way that they could become non-competitive is by giving the Warriors the ball again. And obviously, the Warriors, Looney had some monster offensive. rebound. I mean, they're winning the possession game. They're winning the possession game. And it's already a team that's probably going to shoot a higher percentage than you. And certainly they're going to hit their share of threes. And so you can't be losing the possession game in that kind of manner. And throughout the series that was unfortunately

commonplace in Celtics losses. Yeah, no doubt about it. And for that Celtics team, you know, we did find out some of the limitations. of their superstars, Jason Tatum and Janele Brown. Brown, you know, was crushing last night as a score, 34 points on 12 of 23, but also coughed up the ball, five turnovers. Tatum had five turnovers as well, but he couldn't score at all. Andrew Wiggins just put the clamps on him again.

And, I mean, we talked about Wiggins a lot on Tuesday's show with his evolution and everything that he's become. It was another sensational might for him and containing Tatum. For Boston, I mean, they're still at the beginning here, but those guys do need to get better, whereas Golden State just felt like, you know, Draymond said it after the game, you know, no, still hasn't been proven that, you know, Draymond, Clay, and Steph can be beaten at full strength.

And I mean, at least, at least when Draymond was not suspended a game for, they lost in game seven on their home court, didn't they? Yeah, I know, I know, I know, but they did, they did. But, you know, but you get what I'm saying. Like they're at least in it. They're at least in it. they're in that situation. For the Warriors, though, man,

like getting the contributions from other guys on that roster, that was one of the differences as well. You mentioned the turnover battle. Boston didn't get a lot from Grant Williams. Derek White fall off, fell off the cliff. Peyton Pritchard became worthless off the bench.

Boston really had five guys that were contributing in the end there. Five guys or five starters, and that's it. Whereas the Warriors had Kavon Lutie giving great minutes off the bench, six offensive boards in last night's game. Gary Payton, all serious long since he got back,

sensational on defense. The only thing he couldn't do is make layups. But the defense, it doesn't matter. Everything that he does is a screener, a connector on the offensive end. Jordan Poole had some nice minutes last night as well, I felt. They were getting contributions across their roster, including from Andrew Wiggins,

stepping up big time in the finals, whereas Boston wasn't getting that from all of their role players. They got it from Robert Williams, who was, I mean, he got, he proved a lot to me this series, especially last night. But for Boston, they didn't get the help that they needed like the Warriors did from their other guys. Well, to your point, I read this morning in the fourth quarter of the last three finals games, Jason Tatum was three for 14. 21% had more turnovers, three, than rebound, two.

Wow. So, I mean, he wasn't even doing the other stuff. You know what I mean? It wasn't even doing the other stuff. Three for 14 in three fourth quarters. Wild to think about. Yeah, it is, man. I mean, like, this is, I mean, Steph Curry was by far the best player in the series.

Do you agree there? Do you agree? Of course, God. I mean, yes, yes. I think that's fair to say. I mean, you started off saying one thing I'll say. I just wanted to make sure. On the Tatum front.

And this is what I said coming into this series, which is, you know, the reason I took the Warriors is because of the historical perspective on this, which is what we learn is that in the end, generally, now, Janus was a good exception last year, for sure, winning it a little bit younger, but I think he was 26. But, you know, even the curries, you know,

these guys, we're all, everybody wants to win right now. Everybody wants to rush into what a guy is and make decisions on what a guy's career is. Steph Curry was 27 when he first won it. LeBron was 27 when he first won it. Shaq was 28 when he first won it. Michael Jordan was 28 years old when he won his first title. Kevin Durant, 28 years old. And then you could go back.

and Wilts Chamberlain was 30. Hakeem Elijah on was 31. Dirk, you know, we think about Dirk and being on that team that won with the Mavs. He's 31 years old when he doesn't. Dirk lost 10 times on the playoffs before he won the finals. And Dirk came into the league when he's frigging like 1819. You know what I mean?

He's 31. Kevin Garnett, one of the greatest competitors to ever play in the NBA. He was 32 when they won with Boston. You know, and so I will say this. I don't know if Tatum is going to be that alpha, killer, best player on a team that wins the title, right? But I also know he's 24. You know what I mean? And so if you're 27 and you're 28 and you're not delivering, you know what I mean?

but typically when you're younger, I always look back and I tell people, guys don't win young. I don't know why. And maybe they will, you know what I mean? And we'll do it with Luca and we'll do it with Tatum and we'll do it with Morant and we'll do it with Tray Young and we'll do it with everybody.

But like, that's the truth. Even the guys who we think and we know are the greatest players ever and the ones that are current, Curry, LeBron, Durant, I mean, those guys are in a pantheon. Those are first ballot, sure power, Hall of Famers,

in arguments for top 15, 20 players in the history of the game. They were all over the age of 27 when they won their title. Their first title. You know, we've gotten weird on the age thing where it's like, you know, these guys do come into the league earlier.

They are more significant earlier. And so it seems like they've been around a long time. And then we make grand judgments on them. I would just say that it would have been a fool's errand to make any grand judgments on Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, or Steph Curry. I mean, think about those four, Kevin. Think about those four guys.

You know? 100%, Chris. You're right. I mean, I think that's why, I remember maybe it was like a month ago, I said on either this pot or Bill's pod, I forget, you know, I still think the Celtics are ahead of schedule. And I saw some tweet responses saying, like, what are you talking about?

They're ahead of schedule. They've been in the Eastern Conference finals, you know, three times already. It's like, yeah, that's kind of the point. The fact that this team with so many young guys. That was wildly ahead of schedule. Exactly. The fact they've had so much success with these teams that nobody expected them to is why they are ahead of schedule.

Tatum at 24, given some of his current limitations, he is not yet in his prime. Jalen Brown at 25, not yet in his prime. These guys have gotten better every single season of their career, and theoretically, they still should by the time they're 27, 28. Boston, there's a window, there's a window for them, considering the fact that Jalen Brown can become a free agent in 2024. But for the Celtics, their peak years of contention are 233,

next year, one year from now, and 24, two years from now. And then maybe it's actually 25 if Jalen Brown has re-signed long term. So for Boston, this team is ahead of schedule. They should get better. There's avenues for them to improve with their trade exception this summer. They have some tradable contracts. They have a bunch of future picks. And Tatum and Brown more importantly than anything else,

those two guys should get better, just like all of those eventual champions did that you listed off right there. You're right, Chris, 100%. Seth Curry at 24 years old, still had Draymond Green coming off the bench playing 12 minutes per game. Well, and I'll just say, Kiv,

there is a, look, I've made that, it's not an excuse, it's a reason, right? Exactly. It's a fact. It's a fact. It's a historical trend. It's not an excuse. Now, there is the other side to it,

if I'm being fair, is I don't think it is crazy to wonder if Tatum, if Brown are going to be that guy. Are you that guy? Right? And again, the jury is out. If you want to make a determination, like, A, Jason Tatum needs to be the second best player on a title team.

Then I don't think that that's, I wouldn't think somebody that said that's insane, right? Well, I don't know. I don't know what's going to be true. Right? Maybe he is that guy. But I was very disappointed with the not really going out swinging. I got to be honest with you. I agree. Those three fourth quarters, you know, I don't care how old you are.

That's a mentality thing. That is. And I felt like he didn't go out swinging. And that's what would scare me as the he's our guy. He's our best player when it comes to. that we got to get it done, that's who we're leaning on. I don't think it's unreasonable to wonder if he's that guy, you know, because I didn't like that.

I didn't like the, you know, those games, you needed him. You needed him badly. And a lot of times, even those younger guys, they didn't deliver or they couldn't deliver at a younger age. this felt in many cases like he was, and maybe we're going to find out he's got a shoulder injury and we'll get to make the excuse for him, right? I mean, he does obviously have a shoulder injury,

but maybe we'll find out it was like mega bad. And that's why he wasn't going to the basket. That's why he wasn't aggressive. That's why he wasn't going to the free throw line. But all of that mentality stuff, which is just give me the ball, I'm going, I'm stopping this run. you know, that to me, that's a, is that how you're wired, you know, and that's where I would have the concern if, you know,

you're going to need a guy next to him that's wired that way, because I don't know if he is to where it's like, give me the damn ball. This thing is, we're stopping this run right now. We know he's not a vocal guy, right? He's not like a, he's not like a rough and tumble, you know, scream at the rest of the guy's leader type. But you don't always have to be. But generally, you know, I don't know.

I didn't like the, I didn't like the way he went out. That's for sure. And that's a fair, you know, whether, that's not an age thing to me. That's a, are you that guy? thing. And I know you, you, you tweeted about it last night. He's not that guy yet. Yeah. And, and, and maybe he will be. I don't know. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, I think for Teatim, the area, like, look, what he did against Brooklyn, 30 points per game, seven assists, and what he did against Milwaukee, 28 points per game, five assists, and then what he did against

Miami, 25 points per game. And 46 on the road with the season on the line. Exactly. That's why this disappointed me. Where was that guy? Exactly. Like he had these moments where he was that guy along the way and showed what he can do as a playmaker. He made progress in that department. He showed what he can do filling the box score in those big games,

rebounding the ball. Like you said, that's why there is some disappointment, right? And ultimately, against the Warriors with Andrew Wiggins, the job he did with Draymond Green and help defense, we did see after this long journey, whether it was due to minutes, he played more minutes than anybody in the postseason by a wide margin, or whether it was due to the fact that he was dealing with that shoulder injury that you mentioned, or whether it was due to the fact that just a 24-year-old needs to get better, which is no doubt true for every 24-year-old in the NBA, that there's still room for him to

grow and get better. And so, like, I think you can look at that through two lens. I'm sure, when I did tweet that last night, there was some Southex fans saying, you know, recency bias, You know, you're overreacting. Of course, he's in number one. It's like, no, like, even if he is, there's still room for growth and it was put on stage against a team that just won their fourth finals. Right. It's not necessarily like some huge criticism.

The Warriors are amazing. They're incredible, dude. Like, this team is amazing. It's hard for anybody that can go against. I mean, I covered so many different playoff series over the years, and used to see this when you play against him. like the spurs, right? You'd have a chance against the Oklahoma cities of the world or the clippers,

but then you'd play like the spurs. And I remember the one year I cover, the Grizzies went to the West Finals against the spurs. And it was like, yeah, bro, this is a different deal. Like these guys never lose their mind. These guys are going to keep on coming at you. And you might lose your mind because now the stage is bigger. And now, you know, they're throwing some different.

stuff at you, but like they are so secure in everything they do. And no panic with any runs, anything you hit them with. They just keep on playing, keep on playing, keep on playing. And obviously that was one of the great teams that we've ever seen. And I saw them in person many, many times. And just like that, I saw this Warriors team earlier this year in the playoffs. And it was the same kind of deal. They just keep on. coming, keep on coming, you'd hit them with the run, the crowd gets into it. It's like, okay. Like they have a, that's part of it, is that when you've been through so many wars,

when you've logged so many minutes, when you've got this million playoff minutes under your belt, you truly have that sense of, it's going to be fine. And we talked about this on one of our pods. Dremont keeps saying this after game. We're going to be fine. we're going to be looking at the ring at the end. Are they going to get caught, you know, having to turn it up?

Because they had, you know, several press conferences throughout the playoffs where they said, we know what we need to do. We didn't play with force. We didn't do this. We didn't do that. But we'll do it. And true to their form, every time they did it.

And that is a security that you have as a team that's won a lot with veterans on it, that somebody like Boston just doesn't. Last night when that, when it started going wrong, they didn't have the, it's going to be fine to fall back on. They had, oh, shit. And they were rattled, man. I mean, they're looking around at each other because then they come down one pass,

four for three. Now that's going back the other way and somebody's getting a layup or Curry's pull it up for three and it's like, oh my God, we're dead. That's how it really felt. It felt watching it on TV. I'm like, geez, Louise. Yeah, I mean, there's like we said, there's a helplessness against the warriors.

And I don't know, Chris, I was thinking about it last night. When I got back to my hotel, I saw the photo of James Wiseman holding the trophy. And people cracking jokes about it because it was kind of funny. You know, like you do nothing and you get an A plus on your report card, right? That's right. But I was just thinking about that last night in the context of the fact that the Warriors won the title, having not traded their young guys, as many, understandably so, said maybe they should. Bill Simmons and I talked about it, I think after game two, whenever it was, said, well, what if they should have?

The Warriors from here, like, we don't know what Kaminga and Moody and Wiseman and Pool, what those guys are going to become, we don't know. But the fact that the Warriors have all of these talented young players on their roster having contributed nothing aside from Poole in the finals, those guys will get at least a little better, somewhat better, maybe way better. Maybe Moody becomes one of the better two-way wings in basketball. Maybe Cominga develops his handle, becomes a more efficient guy, provides size and athleticism at the forward for them.

Maybe Poole becomes a more efficient player, gets a little bit better to, offensively. This is why the Warriors kept those guys because they already have a championship core. And now they have these young guys on the roster who got all this experience throughout being part of this ride. I'd love to have those guys. They're not done, Chris.

I'd love to have those guys. I'd love to have those guys. The Celtics. They could have played for them. You know what I mean? They could have played for them. I promise you, Bose's mood, he could have got minutes for the Celtics.

You know what I mean? It would have been great to have somebody. Dude, they put in anybody last night and got slaughtered. I know you couldn't hear the broadcast. But at one point, like Jeff Van Gundy's like, Udoca's gone to his bench. These guys have played three minutes and they're negative 50s. Like he's looking at the plus minuses.

He's like, you combine this. He's like, not only are they not playing even or not winning, they're getting demolished. anytime he subs anything. It was crazy. Anytime they broke their starting five, it did not go well. It didn't go well for the Celtics.

I mean, how much of that, Chris, do you think is, I mean, you said it way back, like in March, April,

when we're talking about are the Celtics contenders, you know, are they sleepers, blah, blah, this and that. And you mentioned at the time they're short in rotation,

said, well, they're playing eight guys. You know, he's like, you said, I don't trust that they're going to be able

to sustain it all the way till June. Well, they made it to June, but I wonder how much of it was, you know, Grant Williams just hitting a wall. How much was it in Peyton Pritchard hitting a wall after this long run? And I just wonder for these young guys on their first run, if that, how much of that is a factor? Because those guys offered nothing. Well, I'll be fair. Look, I didn't think the Celtics were getting this far. So who am I to say anything about that? I will just say, it took one of the great franchises ever featuring one of the greatest players ever to expose it in a game six in the NBA

finals. And so even despite not having enough guys that they trusted, they still were able to get there, you know, and they had their chance. You know, they had a game six on their own floor. They were favored in last night's game. Their favorite. That was an upset. I know that, you know, we do revisionist history, but, I mean, I was watching pregame shows. Everybody was picking Boston. I sure thought Boston was going to win last night. I think everybody did. We're going to get a game seven, Father's Day night. And, you know, the Warriors have been one of those teams that when they

have to win, they win. But when they don't have to, they have not exactly just, you know, played with the maximum amount of focus and intensity that they are capable of. And that's them saying that, not me. Right. I mean, you just listen to their post games after they lose. And it's always like, you know, we didn't come with the level of focus, intensity,

force, blah, blah, blah, that we needed to come with. We will next time, right? And so they've always been one of those things that, like, we'll get it done. You know, they're the kid that I get it done. when I got to get it done. But I'm not, I'm not, you know what I mean?

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I relate to that. I relate to that. I mean, yeah, it's the type of thing where like, I picked,

I picked the, I picked Warriors' nets before the season to go to the finals. And, you know, throughout the year, you know, the Warriors suffer some injuries,

guys are now in the lineup, ups and downs that you're mentioning where it's like, you know, we don't have to get it done yet. And I felt like I wavered for sure throughout the postseason. I didn't pick him to,

to win the finals, right, against the Celtics. But the one thing I've felt this year is despite those ups and downs with this Warriors team that you're describing, Chris, the faith that you have in this team, you can't waver your faith in Stefan Curry. You can't with him. And that's the big thing here, like the takeaways. And now you talked about it earlier, just his,

just the fear that he instills in you. You can't do anything about him. The hopelessness. This guy, what a legend he is. Honestly, being on the road these last two weeks has been really a fun time, fulfilling time, meeting new friends. But seeing Steph Curry in person do this

is that's not something I'm ever going to, you know, forgetting my entire life, man. It was a privilege to watch this guy do what he did. And it's weird because Warriors fans can be insanely annoying. and so it's always like, how happy are you for the fan base? It's Andy and Sam with the White Years podcast and all their goons they send out. But I don't. I love it.

They're great. I've never hated them. Like, I'm talking about the actual team is way less annoying to me than the fans. Like, Draymond. I love the passion. I grew, growing up a Boston sports fan, I can relate to it. So. Draymond, hardcore, you know, flat winner.

He just is. He is. Clay Thompson, you know, has always been likable. And then the story of him coming back after 900 days. And then Curry, I've loved Steph Curry since Davidson. I mean, I love the guy, you know. I've told you before. I love that he's one of the faces of the NBA.

I do. Like, my son and his friends. They love Steph Curry. You know what I mean? Like they root for their guy over Steph Curry now, you know, in Morant. But like Curry is one of those guys that I do think is, you know, it's obviously fun. It's obviously awesome. And I think I've told this story before on the mismatch, but it was probably long ago.

But years ago, the All-Star game was in Charlotte. and I happened to be in the same hotel in the same hotel with tons of people. It was like one of the hotels that a ton of people were staying at at All-Star Week. And I'm talking about like famous people, right? Not me included. I, and one night we were the most famous one of all, though. Yeah, right. Yeah, right.

We're down at the hotel bar and I, and I'm standing at the bar. And this guy, this bartender's like, hey, can you pass these. drinks back. And I was like, I mean, it brings out a ton, like a ton. So I'm going to be passing out drinks here for a minute. And so he's like, I was like, to who? And he's like, see the lady behind you? And I was like, yeah. And he's like, hand him to her. I turn around and it's Sonia Curry. And I was like, hey. And she's like, hi. She like introduces herself. I'm like, I know who you are. Right. And so I hand it up and I was like, what's the occasion? Right. And she's like, My son just asked his girlfriend to get married.

And I'm like, wait, what? And this is the one that plays for Brooklyn now, Seth. And I was like, well, congratulations, right? I turn around somehow, we're in the middle of this, like, frigging curry engagement party. Wow. All right? And I, oh, no, it gets better. So now I'm like, this is crazy.

Like, Steph and Iish are there. the curries are there, the dads there, the moms, everybody's there. And they're all so happy because now they're getting married and all this stuff. And like, Wolf Blitzer is there. Oh, yeah. I had forgotten about this until you mentioned Wolf Blitzer. Yeah. And then this other dude, I knew Harold Ford Jr., who was a senator or a congressman

from Memphis, he was there. And I'm like, so now I'm in like surreal land, right? It's not the point of the story. I'm not just name dropping here. The point of the story is this. That thing wraps up. We're not leaving the bar until like two in the morning, right? At least.

We're in a hotel bar. We're walking straight up to our rooms. So I start walking out, whatever. And Word has gotten around within this hotel that Steph is there and that he's downstairs. And Kevin, I'm telling you, we walk out. And you got all these sleepy-odd kids that are out there. Word has gotten around.

The parents have gone to the other rooms, knock out the door, right? They've all brought them. I mean, you see these dads and their sons and these little girls or what. I'm talking, it's late, late. But, like, word has gotten around. This Steph Curry's there. And so now you've got, like, a group. And they're just standing in the lobby, which you have to go to when you walk out of the bar.

Right? Curry walks out of there and signs every damn thing and takes every single picture. And I was like, yo, no one will ever know this. No one will ever see this, that this happened. But I'm standing there witnessing it. And of course, I had a young son at the time. And I'm thinking myself, this dude, that's unbelievable. Like, that is the consummate.

Hey, guys, sorry, it's two in the morning. And I'm probably drunk. You know what I'm saying? Like he walked out there and all these little kids and all these parents and I mean, it was it was just such a strange scene at the time because, you know, it's all-star weekend, right? So weird things can happen.

But like the idea that like he's such a megastard that the word had kind of gotten around because like you would never see parents and kids in a hotel lobby that late. but it was just for the chance to get to like maybe meet him or get a picture or get his signature or something. And he dealt with every one of them one by one. And I was like, this is crazy, man. I sure as hell don't mind my kid root for him. Because that's just good dude stuff. You know what I mean?

That's just good dude stuff. And I got to be honest with you. It made me a way bigger fan than I even was. And he didn't know I even saw that. You know what I mean? I was trying to get back to my room. You want to go to sleep. Yeah, I had met some music promoter that talked my ear off for the last hour.

I was like, all right, I'm done listening to this guy. Get me out of here. Get me out of here. Why am I still up? I walk out, Step Curry's like, you know, holding court. You glance down on your phone, you're like, maybe I should be in bed right now. That's a better idea. Yeah, maybe I should be in bed right now.

And Steph could have said the same thing, but he didn't. He made some lifelong memories for a lot of kids, and they're going to hold on to that and have that forever. I talked to a fan last night. They came up and said hi to me, and they remarked about the article that I wrote about my dad, and he was there with his dad and his son. And after we said goodbye and took a little photos together,

the dad came back over and said something to me about, he told a story about when his son was young, going to Celtics games about like an autograph that was signed for him and kind of just how that happened and I don't know it just made me think about like a moment that I had with my dad at like a redsox game years ago how I caught like a ball that like my dad kind of like helped me get I wasn't I wasn't the type like who was asking for it like there's other kids waving their hands asking for the ball I was just kind of standing there and I remember my dad pointed at me you know and the ball got thrown to me and that that's a memory that I'll always have so I would imagine for some of those

kids that were there in that hotel that you're talking about for them that's that's going to be their memory when they're a kid maybe their parent dropped them off maybe they're snuck out of the house but whatever however they got there whatever it led to you know they were there with step and had a moment forever and i mean that's that's cool yes you don't know but like you but also as like an athlete you kind of do know it but you're creating that moment for somebody and it's special it is you just unknowingly broke my heart too by bringing up the whole ball story story thing. Yeah.

Dude, my father took me to every St. Louis Blues game. All right. That was like what we did. We went to all these games together. Kevin, when I tell you, I missed one game to go to summer camp. I left and I went to summer camp. And we had two season tickets. My mother went to the game with my dad.

And it's the only game ever. My dad caught a puck. Wow. One time. Oh, my gosh. I missed one game. One. I missed one game.

And that's the one? And it's the game? Yes. I got home from summer camp and he was like, look at this. And I'm like, you have got to be kidding me. You've got to be kidding me. He's like, yeah, it was going to hit your mom. And I was like, well, good catch, you know.

That's the one game. That's funny. game one game so you're like oh and i caught the foul ball with my dad so like the moment in which that happened within a game i always wanted one i always wanted it to fly up over the boards and me to get it right just one time i'm at every game surely it's gonna like they're just the odds it's gonna care them to me once and uh we were in seats where it could fly over the boards easily to us but it just never did like a like a popular angle right it would come in your direction but never to you, right? We were in the corner. And so the one time I ever missed a game, my dad,

I'm never going to camp again. I know. Oh, I was so annoyed. And so when you brought up that story, it's all I can think about, oh, Jesus, here we go with I caught a ball with my dad. Anyways, let's get back to what's going on with these teams, right? So now, I know, this is one of those where it feels like Boston fans are going to be really mad about the whole upset about it, dissect it. I know the way it's going to go. And then it's, after a few days, it's going to be like, you know, that was way more than we.

I think when everybody takes a step back, they're going to go, that was way more than we bargained for. You know what I mean? In the end, that, you know, we all become prisoners at the moment, but it became a running joke on this show about me not thinking that the Celtics finals contenders, right? and, you know, it wasn't like throughout that time.

This wasn't like I was talking about Phoenix not being finals contenders, right? This was the team that was in 11th place in January. And then they caught fire. And they won a ton the second half of the season. And then, you know, they got to the playoffs. They got it done against Brooklyn. And then they got done against Milwaukee. And got to where they got in this deal.

I mean, that that is a wildly successful season, right? I mean, they got people at one team. There's only one team that wins it in the end. But how do you think Boston fans will view this in a team? Because there's this different, right? Like I joked last night about how the Grizzlies played the Warriors the best. And, you know, there are some people that were like, hey, hang a banner for it.

And I was like, you know what, we might. You know, we might hang a banner. We're playing them that great. But there's a different level of expectation. And so you could speak to this well, being a Boston guy. You won 100 million championships when you were a kid, Red Sox, Broins, Celtics won. The Patriots obviously won a million.

And so is any season that doesn't end with them with a title, is that looked at as yeah, right, who cares? Or it's a disappointment? Or do you think that people will look at this as a highly successful season? I mean, I'm sure there will be a lot of mixed opinions in Boston,

you know, like with any fan base. And I think that kind of a... What do you think? I mean, what do I think personally? Will you look at it as a disappointment or look at it as a great season? If I were still in my peak Celtics fandom right now, I don't think I look at it any differently than what I said earlier

that this is a team that's ahead of schedule and that should get better. Will they get better? I mean, that's the big question. What do they need? They need definitely, I mean, more depth. They need another kind of like movement shooter type. I'm very intrigued by the possibility of a guy like Bradley Beale who was there last Friday there to support his friend Tatum.

If you flip, you know, something like along the lines of tice and white, and knee Smith plus, you know, a pick, whatever it takes in like a sign and trade scenario, Washington would not have much leverage at all in any sign and trade scenario, no matter where Bill wanted to go. If you get someone like that, does that help put you over the top with improvement by Tatum and Brown? I'm not sure. But like something like that, I think Boston needs to be angling for over the next year.

But, I mean, I think if I were still on my peak Celtics fandom mode, like, if I were watching this game with my dad and all that and we were talking about the team. I think we would feel, you know, really optimistic about the future and think that this is only part of the beginning. Because, like, I just, I just don't see what would have changed. I don't see what would have changed from, like, Peak Celtics fandom mode to, you know, kind of, you know, whatever, whatever weird zone that I'm in now, um, watching this team.

But, uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's, I think this team's future is incredibly bright. As long as they make some of those right moves and as long as Tatum and Brown continue to get better. I mean, that's, that's the key more than anything else, so obviously. Does your mom care? I mean, she cared, you know, definitely on this run. She was rooting hard for the Celtics wearing green every time sending me texts, you know, here and there and all that. That's great. Yeah, she cared. I mean, she cared because she wanted her, her boy to come home. It's so wild. It's so wild. Yeah. You know, it's so wild. It made it extra nice, man. I was rooting for the Celtics for that same reason because I wanted to go home and spend the time with her. It's so crazy because when I was a kid, my mom,

Like, she had an awareness and she always liked sports, but she wasn't like into it, into it. And now I probably get more text from her about everything that goes on than I do. Anybody else, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, so that's why I was fascinated to hear if she got totally into it. Because I can imagine anybody. She was. If you've been from there, you get swept up with it.

Right? Of course. Yeah, she, you know, my mom's awesome. She's the best. And she sold our house recently. and she's moving to L.A. later in the year next month. Yeah, she's going to live with me. Oh, that's awesome.

So she's in her mid-60s, and she's, you know, incredibly excited because after my dad passed away two years ago, I mean, well, before he passed away, her and him had conversations about what, what are you going to do, you know, after I'm gone? And, like, you know, the plan was always for her to move to California to be with me at some point. So she's...

Has she been in Massachusetts her entire life? So when she was like 18 or 19, her and one of her friends moved down to Orlando, Florida for like four months. It was kind of like a short term plan. Like, hey, we're going to spend a little bit of time down here and then go back. They knew they'd be back. Yeah. But like that's the only time in her life that she's lived outside of Brockton, Massachusetts. So she spent basically like her entire life in Brockton and now she's going to be plopped in the middle of, you know, California.

But she's, she's the best. And I think she's going to really fall in love with L.A., just like I have. Her and I are very similar in a lot of ways with our interests and the things we like to do and, you know, our day-to-day rhythm. So I think she's going to really enjoy it out there. Yeah, she's, we actually just booked our flight yesterday morning to go out. When I come back to Boston in the middle of July to help her out finishing packing, shipping stuff and all that. We booked our flight for around a week before my birthday in late July. So she'll be out there for my 30 seconds.

It's amazing. She's not nervous. She's excited. Oh, she's incredibly nervous. She's incredibly nervous. I mean, because she's afraid of flying because of some health issues. But she'll like it's, you know. Oh, I meant just home.

What home has been? What she's been used to for 60 plus years. Yeah, I mean, she's, yeah, she's definitely afraid of, like, you know, leaving what she's been used to for sure. I mean, even, like, just like the rhythm of, like, the grocery stores that she, you know, that you go to or like the doctor's office that, you know, the doctor that you see and the people that you recognize, you know, just walking around like, oh, you know, you see people over and over again, you know, all that. She's like, everything is going to be different. Everything is going to be

different. And there's some fear there for her, but I think also a sense of excitement to define, you know, how she wants, you know, this chapter of her life to become. And I mean, she's the type of person that she invested so much into me and my dad over the years that she didn't really have a lot friends and all that, you know, like people grow apart as they get older when they have their own families. And some people stay really close with their friends. But for her and her group, they kind of just, you know, straight over the years. So she's looking forward to kind of building a network of friends out there doing, you know, groups with people in their 60s and 70s, all that. So she's the best. Like, I'm, I witnessed it with my, you know, my parents live

right down the street from me now. And I saw, I was out walking my dog this morning. I saw my mother. She was driving off and she was, she's going to her, she calls it her old lady exercise class. Silver sneakers. And she's made all these like, she's made all these like friends and they go to breakfast afterwards and all this stuff. And I'm like, this is great. You know what I mean? This is what I wanted her to have. You know what I mean? What retirement to be? Same way, right? We have very similar life experiences when it comes to that and mom sacrificing so much. So I like to see it. You're going to like to see it too. Yeah, I'm very, excited for her to be out there, man. It's going to be a cool chapter of our lives. And I think for her,

you know, she's always been kind of a stabilizer, like on her side of the family, always been, you know, and so now for to have her out there and to help support her and her support me, I'm very excited for, you know, I'm just excited for the future. I am. And the journey's out in California. It's going to be fun. It was kind of strange, though, this whole past month, though. Like, like, like watching these games. Like I got emotional in some of these games thinking about my dad,

tears of my eyes and all that. Like I think it was game three against Miami. I was just sitting there like tears rolling down my face. Like there are a couple instances this series against the Warriors that I felt it.

It's just, it's strange, man. Like throughout the finals, you know, you meet new friends on the road. You know, you reconnect with old friends who you met on the road

and your life changes. Like I'm not, you know, watching the game with my dad anymore. but like meeting new friends and doing this with you. Like that's really fulfilling. Like I really feel that.

So it's been great. It's not always great though, Kev. About two weeks ago, you know, I told you I went to all those blues games with my dad. Mm-hmm. I don't know. You probably aren't aware of this. You know, Colorado is playing Tampa Bay in the Stanley Cup. No idea.

They are. Colorado's. I was aware. I do know I have a friend that's, a huge Rangers fan. I'm just going to be out. Tampa Bay is like unbreakable.

They're amazing, right? So in the case that you just want to be having awareness of it, and you're looking for something to what? But yes. Tampa Bay has a chance to win three consecutive Stanley Cup. Yes.

They're like a dynasty, right? On the other side, Colorado was 12 and 2, and now 13 and 2. They won game 1 in overtime, okay? So that's what they are in the playoffs. Their two losses are to the St. Louis Blues, who my dad was scared of, and I went down and the Blues forced a game six at home.

And I went down and watched it with my father because they're going to force the game seven. Colorado score. I'm not kidding you, Kevin. The score is three to three, I think. And they're, so we're going overtime, right? Because there's like, I don't know, 20 seconds left in the game. Colorado takes a shot

they score with four seconds left. Oh my goodness. Yo, I watch this old man's heart break in front of my face. He watches every single game and his heart just shattered right and I was like, you know, sports is not that fun. It was the worst.

the worst. He's 75 now. And he had just had his birthday. And with four seconds left, the whole season just ended. I was like, dude, that is the most cruel shit I've ever seen in my life.

It was awful. I mean, you know, you're going to be on that side of things. You're going to be on the other side where you feel that glory together. And that's all part of it. Like when you have those heartbring, breaks, it makes the winds feel

that much more special. Oh, hey, trust me. We go down there for Cowboys games. Trust me. Every season ends with me throwing shit and him going, Chris! Stop! And I said, I told you, Jason Garrett's a stupid ass.

I'm throwing it. I'm getting so mad. My son now is walking out of the room. His head and his hands. It's just like a good parapherty. All right. I know people try to preemptively do this and just be like as soon as the Warriors win the title. But I'm not letting it happen.

The whole, don't let, you know, this has nothing to do with Duran. Bro, it does. I'm sorry. It was one of the first things that ran through my mind last night when Curry's like, I hear what you say and all these guys, you know, strengthen numbers. And we do it again. And when you were looking at the stage and you saw Steph and Draymond and Clay do it again, right? We did it with Harris of Barnes.

They did it with Andrew Wiggins. Everybody turned on KD for going and joining up there, right? But then it was kind of like, hey, look, they won, and they won big, and they were dynamite, and they had these crazy-ass seasons. He won finals, MVP's, and whatever else. But I think it's impossible, not. to now these years later after tanking, after surgeries, after now having Andrew Wiggins on the team,

I cannot help but think about the whole KD thing. I'm sorry, I can't, right? Like they did it. They did it again after all this. You know what I mean? And so for the people that were all mad about the KD thing, and that just makes it unfair and this is stupid and the level of competition is ruined now,

and whatever else. Like, when they win it now, I think it's totally fair to come back and say, like, hey, man, like, well, like, they won without him. You know what I mean? Again.

They did it. They did it again. They did it free KD. They did it with KD. They did it post KD. It's incredible. Yeah. So he was unbelievable.

Had an amazing finals. Had, you know, the finals MVP's and all that kind of stuff. But I can't help but think, I'm sorry. It does, it is there, you know. That does exist because they won again, right? Because they won again after the surgeries, after the, you know what I'm saying? And I know he was the best guy and he was the finals MVP and all that stuff.

But I mean, you know, there was at least some people out there like, can Curry be that guy still? carry a bus driver is you know KD won finals MVP's you know. Is Curry a bus driver's stuff? You know, it's so silly. It's so silly. Right. It's so goofy.

Yeah, but it's like, hey, he's one of the great players. I was glad he got that on his resume. Obviously, he should have had the EGuadala one anyway in retrospect, okay? And not even at retrospect at the time. There was a lot of people saying that. But you look in the greatest players, like all those guys, because when you put up like your, I remember at one point in the playoffs,

you were like, Curry's top 10 guy. If you go and look, no matter what list you look at, those top 10 guys, I mean, I think you have to get down to like maybe like Oscar Robertson if you want to,

depending on where you got him. But they do have that on their resume. They do. They've got a finals MVP on their resume, which signifies. Typically, I had the best series in the big, biggest spot. And that's why the Aguadala one is a little annoying. So he didn't have that on his

resume. But now he's added that. So now what? Right. I mean, he's got it all. Whatever, whatever accolade you need him to get, he's got it now. And I do think the whole Durant thing, you got to look at it and be like, man, like, it was annoying at the time. And now you look at it and like, well, damn, man. And they still win. They still win without him. So like, why did we do that? I guess it was cool for Warriors fans, but it wasn't cool for anybody else. And so there was a lot of resent, right?

There was. Yeah, no, I mean, you saw that like with, you know, step after the game, the social media posts and all that, you know, like he, he sensed it too. And I think he knows, what is that LeBron quote? There's nothing left for me to prove. There's nothing left for Steph to prove at this point.

It's just about winning more and winning more. and winning more and adding to what your legacy is already and continuing to just accumulate championships. I mean, maybe he ends at four, maybe he gets a five or a six or seven. You don't know where it'll end for this Warriors team and how they'll evolve over the years. All I know is, you know, Steph Curry at 34 years old,

this guy, I thought it was one of his best overall playoff runs that we just witnessed and not just because of the offensive production. We've seen him do this before, he's just unstoppable. We know what Steph can do on offense, but the defense, like teams were going at him, man. They were targeting him,

series after series, possession after possession. They were going at step. And he held up. He didn't get physically tired. It didn't affect his offense. His numbers didn't drop. He didn't get exposed on defense.

He held up for a guy at six foot two, six foot three, under 200 pounds that a lot of over the years, people said that was his greatest weakness. Hell no, man. Steph has gotten better on that end of the floor in his mid-30s, and his offense is built to last, provided he's able to stay on the floor and be healthy.

Steph, this, him specifically, there's kind of like that Brady, you know, type of longevity potential with him, where this is, he's 34, but he doesn't feel like he's anywhere near the end, does it, Chris? No, and I think I mentioned it in the past. Anybody can go try to find the, you could probably go to YouTube

and find the Steph Curry Sports Science episode they did on that E60 show or whatever. It's one of the craziest things I've ever seen in my life. Like they measured him, they put the heart rate monitor on him. Like the guy is so fit and so in this such ridiculous physical condition that like, you know,

they were saying that guys shot, they like, when guys like race around a screen that they run, like, he runs more than anyone when he's on the court, right? He's just running around the court the entire time. And then your heart rate gets elevated. It's harder to hit shots, right? They do all the science with that, right? And so they did this whole deal with his, you know, how he does it.

And it's like, well, one of the reasons is his heart rate doesn't go up like yours. He runs and runs, and then it like comes back to pace level, like in a way that is like, freakish. Like, you know what I mean? Like, so, you know, it stands to reason, right? Your heart rate gets up. You're more, you know, right, your body's going overdrive. His body never goes in overdrive. He, like, never gets to this insane level that you would think.

And it's because all this work he puts in the off season, you know, he's doing all this stuff. And to your point about the whole holding up defensively, uh, Mark Jackson or maybe his Van Gundy, I don't know, one of them wore him out. wore Horford out last night. There were times where they threw it down to Horford on the block and he had Curry on him. Curry's got like the elbow in his back, you know what I mean, or like the forearm in his back, and Horford passing out of it. Really weird.

Yeah. And they were like, what are you doing? Like, what? There were times they wouldn't even feed him on the low posts. They're like, I don't care how good you think Steph Curry has gotten defensively. You're Al Horford and you're one foot away from the basket. Just turn and put the ball in. He's a guard.

But you did see that quite a bit. Like, Curry getting switched on to guys and them oddly not taking advantage of it. I don't want to give him all the credit for being some kind of defensive stopper. But I am saying he holds up a lot better than he used to. Oh, no doubt about it. Back in the day, that would have just been a swipe. But anyway, look, that's a veteran-laden team with a million finals games under its belt. and we need to mention the coaching.

That's nine rings for Steve Kerr, dude. Amazing. Nine. And unbelievable job by him again. And I thought on the other side, you know, it got forgotten somewhere along the way that IMA Adoka had never been the head guy before. It's the first year.

I mean, what an unbelievable learning experience the entire time for Udoca. And I do think, I thought Boston, you know, I know that Imae Udoca was very highly regarded over the years. I know personally, Damon Stademeyer, who he hired, who I love, and I knew he was great as an assistant. And they got some other great assistants there too. He built a great staff in Boston.

but you never know what to think about it. Okay, and I certainly thought Brad Stevens was awesome. I thought Brad Stevens is an outstanding basketball coach. And so I thought there would be a real drop-off. And it certainly looked that way for several months into the season. But I think you couldn't have done any better. And now it's another part of the experience thing. You had a coach on one side line who's been there,

nine times more than that he's got nine rings as a player and the coach he's been in that environment and you had a coach that i know he's been there uh in other forms but he's never been a head coach in the finals and a group of players that had never been there before and i do think that that experience i i don't know if we got done with the series and just roster for roster if you weren't right. But experience is a hell of a thing, man. And I do feel like that that was the massive advantage. Obvious, look, Curry being the best guy,

by a wide margin, and performing like he did. But also just that institutional knowledge and the ability to not freak out when things start going against you. And there is, I always talk about scars that your team builds. You can't replace it. You have to lose to win. You know, and you got to learn. And inevitably, the Boston and all those young guys and that coach are going to learn from it.

Brad Stevens will learn for it as a GM on and on and on. And on the other side, you know, you're talking like the Curry Brady stuff and about these young players they got on their team. Like, I think we're going to come back next season and people are going to be picking Warriors. I do. Oh, yeah, of course they will.

I mean, Stephen A picked him this morning. He said they're going to repeat that shit. Yeah. Yeah. Predictions are already coming in with the offseason really yet to begin. But, I mean, teams are going to change. Teams are going to gear up to try to defeat this goal in state roster. But like we said earlier, Chris, the Warriors are also built to get better.

That's right. They are. I mean, if they wanted to make it all in move and destroy the young guys even after winning a title, they could if they wanted to. Yep. Or those young guys get better. But I know you're right, though. The institutional knowledge part of it is big.

It's the other thing, dude. If they got those three guys, you could just put whoever. Yeah. Sometimes you got Harrison Barnes. Sometimes you got Andrew Wigg. and sometimes you got, I don't want to take anything away. Don't take that as I'm taking away from Wiggins or Barnes or Durant or any of them. What I'm saying is that, those three, you can flank it.

You know what I mean? We have seen the rest change around that. It's Festus Azili and it's Harrison Barnes and it's Sean Livingston and it's Leandro Barbosa and then it's Kevin Durant. But now it's Jordan Poole and Kevin Loonie and Andrew Wiggins. Like, okay. As long as you got those three, to Draymond's point, you got those three, you're going to have a chance. And that's what they, I feel like they feel like they proved that.

We haven't had Clay. We knew when we would get, when we had me, Curry, when we had Draymond, we had Clay, and we all three were going to be healthy, but nobody's beating us. they lived up to it man Dreemann oh the shit talking is just going to be next level

next level from him I cannot fathom so as the season gets a bow put on it and congrats to the Warriors with their fourth title I cannot wait until next week

and we get to talk draft on Tuesday I'm fired up and this is how I became a way that how people, how fired up people are. Bro, on Tuesday, I mentioned to you in passing about meeting Paulo Bancaro. I said, they told me they went to Houston,

he measured 6.10 and a half without shoes. One of those like aggregator sites, like picked it up, like Legion hoops or something like that, and they just put out, Paulo Bancaro measured 610 and a half without shoes, according to at Chris Vernon Show. Insane, right? which I'm appreciative they gave me credit.

On the other hand, I have gotten tagged in everything for like 48 straight hours. And of course, they're all funny. It's not like I put it out there. I mentioned it to you in passing on here. I didn't realize this was news. Oh,

what's with the response? I just pulled it up. People are saying breaking news, NBA player is tall. Like, what? Yeah, right. Oh, well, and look at how many Like that thing has And retweets or whatever

And so that crap all shows up on mine I know you can just mute it or whatever But like I'm too lazy to mess around with that But when I check my phone I keep on seeing that And I'm like, hold on now I didn't make a big deal It's just like breaking news

But I guess it is surprisingly I did not realize the context of it all I guess he was listed at 6-9 at do he didn't measure at the combine. So I guess it was news. It was news, yeah. Okay, but I should just become a height reporter. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, that's pretty good. Yeah, get all kinds. I just go around and figure out how tall a guy really is. I like, wow. You just start pulling out your tape measure. Oh, the guy that said, I think he's going to play in shoes. I'm like, I like this one. They keep saying without shoes, do they normally measure with shoes on?

I might be a future lottery pick wearing 18 in shales. The responses are so goofy. Wow, six foot, ten and a half Julius Randall. What? Yeah, so now you have to turn your attention completely to the draft, and I know you're going to be deep dive at and talking about it all week. But I do want to ask you, is there anybody that you have gotten much higher on in the past two weeks

than maybe you were when you're, started putting everything together or when you've updated it in the last like, say, month or so? I mean, I think probably the biggest riser on my big board are Dyson Daniels out of the G-League

who a lot of people have had him skyrocket up their boards because he's kind of a 6-6-guard, do-it-all player and the concern with him out of the G-League was his jump shot. But a lot of progress in every appearance that he's had shooting the ball and if he's able to shoot efficiently

on top of being like this beautiful playmaker, multipositional defender, he's the type of guy you can plug into any team. And then also... Hey, hey, real quick, my buddy Hollinger said that when he talked to scout, that they gave him some Kyle Anderson comps. Yeah.

Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, I think he'll be there with Kyle Anderson. I mean, I know, but... Kyle Harrison's a good player. He's a good player. Yeah, he's a good player. For sure. I mean, like, there's the big playmaker. type of thing about he's not as tall as Kyle Anderson but a little so a little different in that sense but

kind of just does a little of everything though that is what they meant right yeah usman jeng is another one played for the new zealand breakers last year he's a french prospect uh 610 forward um you know raw player for sure needs to get better but 610 guy his one of his best skills is his ball handling creating space off the bounds getting to the basket um getting into his jump shot he's a willing passer with his size, a versatile defender. If you're trying to take a shot, like, in the middle to late lottery, Jang just feels like one of those guys that could pop and become one of the seals of the draft. So, Zhang and Daniels, I'd say those are the two main ones that come to mind,

you know, for the lottery. And then like Jalen Williams out of Santa Clara, I have him, I think, 17th or 18th on my board after he was, you know, I'm pretty sure, like, you got to give credit to Sam Dacini. I think Sam was like the first person who had Jalen Williams ranked in his first round or top 25 or whatever. But like almost everybody in the NBA agrees now like that guy is, you know, top 25, 30 guy. The one that I keep reading and hearing the most good about. And maybe I'm just, maybe it's just what I'm reading or what I'm listening to, but is Mathering. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. A lot of interesting stuff. I feel like there's a lot of buzz. it sounds like everybody that talks to the kid walks away, like loving him. You know, there's, there's,

there's, there's, there's, like, some stuff out there that makes me think teams want his stock to drop. Because it's risen so much. You know what I'm saying?

Like, that type of thing is happening where it's like, well, let's, you know, that's not that important. But like with Mathur, it seems like his range is five to eight.

Now, we published a new mock draft, actually, while we were recording this, podcast, it dropped on NBA draft dot the ringer.com, and I have Matherin going fifth to the pistons in this stock draft. And I mean, we'll see.

Like, we'll see. I think like five to eight range feels appropriate for Matherin. Last thing. Didn't the Christian Wood thing feel like, hey, no matter what Oak City does, it's going to be Pollo for us. And we'll be, build with Paulo and Jalen and Shengoon and move out,

or it's going to be, if you're Houston, or if the guy shocks us, you know, and he takes that Ivy at Oak City, he takes Ivy or he takes, you know, he takes Paulo, you know, then it's going to be Cheddar, then it's going to be, you know, right, then it's going to be Cheddar Paulo. At that other spot,

and somebody might drop it. It felt like, we're going to build with Jalen, whoever we draft three, and Shengum. And that's what we're going to do. And we're not going to win a ton of games, but we're going to, you know, we're building for the future.

This is a rebuild. That's what we're going to do. And we don't really have a good spot for Christian Wood on expiring right now. And I'm sure they'll move off of Porter because of the behavior problems last year. And they'll try to, like, get a good culture with the young team going. going and let those kids rack up a ton of minutes, right? Yeah.

Meanwhile, sounded like you really liked that for Dallas. I know you did a bunch on Spotify, so we don't have to go too deep into it, but you like the Wood fit with Dallas it sounded like. Yeah, I love Christian Wood as a fit for Dallas. I think that upside with him offensively, he'll do the things that you wanted from Chris Staps,

for his thing is to just do it better. more efficiently. He's one of the most efficient pick and pop. Biggs, ever since he entered the NBA, a lob threat can do a little bit off the bounce. Defense is the question, as everybody rightfully has questioned, as every Rockets fan knows, as every Pistons fan knows, everybody who's ever watched, Christian Wood knows, what level can he be defensively? But

Dallas's offseason isn't done yet. They still have more moves to make. They're having a lot of conversations with teams around the league. So I look forward to seeing what Dallas does to make the picture feel complete with their roster. So we'll see there. We'll see with Dallas. I think for Houston, though, I put this in the mock.

They've had conversations or at least inquired about moving up to one or two to assure that they get the guy that they want. Additionally, they've also had conversations packaging 17 and 26, which is that they just got from Dallas to move up into the late lottery.

So like the 11 to 15 range seems to be the spots, especially 11 with the Knicks, 13 and 15. with the Hornets. Those seem to be the spots where, you know, teams could change spots. OKC at 12. It's been previously reported trying to move up.

They don't want to move down. So we'll see how things shake out there when in that 11 to 15 range in regards to a team like Houston or Denver. There's a number of teams that want to move up. So if you're Houston, if you want to guarantee you get your guy, maybe we see a draft night trade where, you know, OKC and Houston flip, two and three, or maybe Orlando moves from one to three and still gets Jabari Smith or whoever their preferences.

So, I mean, there's a lot happening that could shake up the draft order, whether it's in the top with the lottery, one to five, including with Sacramento, or we could see a lot of movement within the middle of the first round as well. I'm excited about it. I hope we get like a heavy on trades this coming week.

I mean, the fact we already get a couple of them during the finals is pretty cool. And I like the wood acquisition too because there's two things. You've been on two rat teams, So it's hard to judge guys. It just is. It's hard to judge guys when they're losing every single night. He's been on more than two teams.

No, no. I'm saying, how many six teams already? No, but since everybody's giving a crap about him, right? Yeah, started in Detroit. People started Karen. A horrendous Detroit team and a horrendous rockets team.

So we'll see. Is he good stats on bad team guy? I think he's very, very talented. And the other thing is, Jason Kidd's their coach. I promise you. You know, whatever he is able to, unless his problems are physical, it's not like an effort thing because it feels like everybody that cracks on it defensively.

It's effort and kind of like reading the floor. So between the years and also effort. Jason Kidd will make him the best defender he can be. That's what I'd guess. I mean, here's the thing. Like, whether they're empty numbers or not, In two years with Houston, a team that he signed with with the expectation of running pick and roll with James Hardin, who dumped the team weeks in, pushed his way out of there.

He averaged 19 points per game, 10 rebounds, two assists. Obviously, he was inconsistent defensively. Obviously, there's moments he struggled. But the fact is, we're talking about a dude who's in his mid-20s that was basically averaging 20 and 10 that is now going to be playing with Luca. One of the best playmakers in all of basketball. Luca has gotten the best out of Dwight Powell, out of Maxi Kleba, of all the bigs that have gone through Dallas

in his time. Now he has Christian Wood, who is a far more efficient shooter than Chris Staps Porzingis, a better lob threat than Chris Staps, Porzingis, a more durable player than Chris Staps, Porzingis. Everything Mavs fans hope they would get, Christian Wood can provide the difference.

The difference is Wood is worse defensively than KP. That's the difference. But he's incredibly... talented, offensive guy, and he's going to be open all the time because that's what you are when you play with Luca. You're open. And he can knock down 15 footers.

We're going to see the best version of Christian Wood that we ever have because of it. Because of Luca. We actually agree on this. Yeah, we do. With Houston, with Houston real quick, do you think that they also should be trying to move up? I mean, it doesn't it kind of make logical sense?

Sure. You have three first round picks and a bunch of future picks. Why would you not be trying to move up? It's kind of like common sense that they'd be doing that. Why not? I think I'd keep 26. I think that if you're good at drafting, you know what I mean? If you're good at drafting, that 26 to 30 is the absolute most valuable asset in the NBA if you hit it.

because if you can find a starter, if you can find somebody really good, I say this is someone that covers a team that's got Desmond Bank. Desmond Bank has paid a million dollars. He averaged 18 points a game and shot 44% from three, and it's going to be a starter for two more years for a million bucks. Like, if you can nail it, it's better than any pitch. Exactly.

You know what I mean? 100%. If you could actually find a starter. Now, that is very, very difficult to do. But, you know, because once you get into the second round, if the guy pops off, you've got to pay him after two years. I think there's a real value to that 25 to 30, you know, but you've got to nail it.

Or else it's whatever. But if you could find a starter there, you can nail that. If somebody drops and you got that guy under contract for four years, somebody that's like a real rotation player, oh, it's the best. So I kind of like 26. I kind of like, I think,

I think 26 actually has a lot more value than you would normally think it does. Yeah, for sure. I mean, there could be some steals that drop down there that are high value picks for a team like Houston, or the contenders like Milwaukee, you know, picking a couple spots ahead, teams like that too. Well, because I've just viewed this totally differently now. You pay the best players $40 and $50 million. It's really hard to have. awesome $1 million players.

Oh, yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? It's the only way. Literally the only way you can have an awesome $1 million player is if you take them $25 to 30. Yeah. You're right.

I mean, that's the thing about those picks, right? I mean, like, you kind of want to use them as assets to go get like an Eric Gordon type. Yeah. But teams were reluctant to do that. For a veteran, a guy in his 30s and Gordon making, you know, high 17, 18 million. because some of those teams are thinking exactly what you said.

Well, if we nail this pick, we have a guy making cheap money for four years before we have to make a decision on whether to resign him or not. Whereas with Gordon, even though we might increase our title odds, like this was the thing with Golden State, for example, might increase title odds, but ultimately, you know, retaining future flexibility, keeping picks, draft and youth is more advantageous this year and beyond. So we'll see what happens there. I'm excited, dude.

But I think, I mean, there's a lot of stuff floating out there in the NBA right now. A lot of it is not going to happen. But the stuff that's out there, like I'm excited for this coming week. It really coming weeks because some of it could bleed into the free agency period too. It's going to be wild. I think it's going to be unbelievable too. All right. We're going to be going through the draft next Tuesday.

Basketball certainly doesn't stop. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez, as always. Kev, I will talk to you next week. Hey man, it has been a great, great season in playoffs with me, Chris, looking forward to the drafts and free agency. Thanks, everybody for listening.