The Mismatch - Was This Zion’s Plan All Along? Plus: Early MVP Candidates and the Loser Pistons.

Episode Date: December 22, 2023

Verno and KOC discuss Ja Morant’s return for the Grizzlies as well as the Pacers' continuing struggles since the IST, before explaining why the Pistons are that bad after they lost to the injury-riddled Jazz, extending their losing streak to 25 games (01:04). They then move on to discuss the news about Zion Williamson’s contract not being fully guaranteed anymore and what it means for the Pelicans (22:37). Also, the guys discuss Tim Bontemps’s first NBA MVP straw poll of the season (32:26). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout http://theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Galaxy lights, Coachella, Lightning Bolt necklaces. 20203 was the year of Scandival. On March 3rd, one cheating scandal launched a reality TV investigation that generated hundreds of conspiracy theories, thousands of podcast episodes, and millions of dollars in revenue. I'm Jody Walker, host of an American Scandival. One retrospective story told in three salacious parts. Listen, December 26th, on the Ringer Reality Feast. feed.

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me on this Friday morning from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin Obama, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Clymer, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'clock. Burnow, you must be the happiest boy in the land right now after going 2-0. One week after the Dylan Brooks dagger, that really hurt. But here we are.

Jaws back. I mean, I feel good. Feel good. Obviously, you won most ill-time tweet of the century. Dude, that was so funny. With the Pelicans being up by 24. You were correct in feeling that I was like, oh, no. John Moran has come back, but they're still terrible.

What was the biggest lead? that game? 24. That's crazy. They were down by 24. They gave up, I believe, like a 26 or 28 to 2 run at one point. Unfortunately, the blessing was for the Pelicans that Zion Williams got his third foul. Zion Williamson got his third foul and went to the bench.

And then they just exploded. And then down 19 at halftime, but then he comes back in the ultimate story. which was him hitting the game winner against New Orleans and Herb Jones. And then turn around and I was at the Pacers game last night. Now, the Pacers have really struggled since the IST. Interestingly enough, as have the Lakers who they played. And they've both been on some, you know, had some road games post the Vegas thing. So it's something to monitor as we go into the future years of the in-season tournament.

It might be too simple to say, hey, here's the two teams that played the most games in the in-season tournament. And then they had struggles soon after. I think part of it was, and just watching the Pacers last night, I believe nine times this year, Halliburton has been held under 20. I think it's four consecutive now. And I don't think that that is necessarily a mistake. That that is something that when you have something as high profile as that, and you have a team like the Lakers that had a game plan against the Pacers

and a game plan against Halliburton, he is still an amazing player. but he's going to go through a stretch here where there's now a new book on, okay, this is the most offensively potent team. How can we attempt to stymie that? And so he is going to get all manner of attention in a different way than he ever has before. But so far so good on the Morant front, you look amongst the best players in the league and through two games, they have a plus 15 and a half net rating with him on the court. And this was a team with, I think, a six point, point differential with the 6 and 19 record when he returned.

And so, you know, my hope was that that would be flipped. So far, so good on that. Schedule will get tougher as things go on. but the results so far have been that they added a superstar into the mix, and much like other superstars throughout the league, when you take them out, teams look terrible, and when you put them in, teams look good. I mean, sure.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think for Memphis, obviously, you add John Moran, it's impressive how good he's been right away. I mean, that second half against the Pelicans was, the worst moment of your life or top 10? It was really a storyboard finish. Which was worse? Morant's game winner or you exclaiming that you had a Rudy Gobert best defender of a generation jersey hanging behind you and then Joel Embed has 51.

Which was worse? If we're just breaking them. The Jai game winner. Oh, okay, okay. That's why. Gober was in foul trouble, and fair. That's why I wore this shirt today. John Moran is scared of MacKlawn?

Is that a reference to the dunk contest? Yes. Oh, I mean, I don't, I don't know. I guess he's not, you know what they, I was thinking, hey, I was just thinking about this in reference to the, In season tournament. Put 500 grand on the line and see how many people do the dunk contest. Yeah, I know.

Making about money, of course. You'd see them all. You'd get the best of the, you'd have the greatest dunk contest ever. I know, the most creativity. Right. Yeah,

that's for sure. But from the Pacer's side of it, though, I mean, like, I mean, it's like we talked about after the IST. It's really no different. Like,

the Pacers need more ball handling around Hallibur and star-level ball handling. He needs some assistance. I did, you know, getting to see them in person. Obviously, I saw them in Vegas, but getting to see them in person. You know who I really like and who's become a player is Neesmith? I like it. Yeah, he's a really good player. I like him.

And I think he's a, he's kind of a dog, too. Yeah, I mean, like he defended Tatum and the IST. He defended Yannis. He defended LeBron. Yeah. He's just he's only six foot five. I know. They need somebody bigger than him.

But Neesmith is a, Like you said, he's a dog. He's a tough, hard-nosed defender. He fights. He can hit threes up a movement, spot-ups, tack close-outs. I also like with him. He also stands out like a sore thumb

because he's the only one that defends anyone. That is the worst defensive team. I mean, one of our broadcast guys had a note last night saying it would rank as the third worst defense ever. I mean, there's no resistance to anything, Kevin. It's almost unfathomable that you can have the number one offense in the world, and it would rank as the greatest offense ever, but then also in tandem have the

absolute worst defense. Because the reason that seems so crazy to me is you're scoring so much that theoretically you should be getting to set up in half-core defense so much. To be that bad, it's different if you, most defensive teams that are horrible give up a million points of transition, right? They miss their shot. It can't get back. It's scramble mode, cross-match, whatever. They get to set up in half-court defense because they score all the time. And they still are awful. It's crazy. If they just had a mediocre defense, they'd be fantastic. But it is abysmal. I mean, it is tough to watch. They don't, they don't, there's no

the point of attack. There's no resistance at the rim. there's no resistance, kickout threes are wide open. I'm like, damn, bro, just five cones out there. The craziest thing is, is how their defensive rating is of the worst in the NBA. It's the Hornets and the Wizards that are worse. Somehow there's teams that have worse defenses. Oh, really? Efficiency-wise?

Yeah, defensive rating. Yeah, Hornets are 30th at 121.9. Wizards are 29th at 121.3. and the Pacers are 121.1. They are the only three teams in the NBA with a defensive rating worse than 120. I think it improved last night. Because going into the game, I believe it was 30.

They moved up. They moved up after that ridiculous performance. Well, speaking of ridiculous performances, Kevin, that was not the biggest story last night. It was the Grizzlies Pacers. It was just the game I happened to be at. The biggest story was this Piston Street continuing which this was in everybody's mind the chance.

I mean, even Woge was tweeting about like, hey, no Lori Marketing, no Jordan Clarkson, no Keonté George, no nobody. This is the chance. This is it. When Woge is tweeting, this is the chance. This is it, guys. I'm like, oh, my God, this is the NBA story. of the night.

This is the chant. And they still got beat. And the fans are cheering or chanting, sell the team. Holy, I mean, that is the abyss. Truly. When you lose to that jazz team without their guys, it's the abyss.

And I know I've seen the clip going around everywhere of Kate Cunningham saying, you know, we're not two and 26 bad, even though they are, obviously. They are that bad. They are that bad. They are that bad. They are that bad. They are that bad.

Right. So I think, I think you got to accept that realization. And one of the reasons is because of you. It's because, like, you saw that clip I tweeted out last night in the first half. Oh, I thought they were talking about me. Not you. I was like, I didn't do anything. It's Cade.

It's Cade, too. I know, like, that dude scores. He's had some offensive performances that have been way better in recent weeks than earlier in the season when he wasn't shooting over 40%. But like that defensive clip that I sent out in the first half, there are too many examples of that from him and his teammates. But like the flat foot in this, the lack of intensity, I know when you're right in that 24, now 25 game losing streak, it's hard to get locked in and try to treat a game like

a must win. But that's, you are that bad when you're all five of you on the floor aren't defending with intensity. Like that, the clip that I tweeted out with Agbaji, receiving the ball with a close-out opportunity. And Cade is just like a little turnstile on the perimeter. And then Osar Thompson doesn't even help with the rim. You're not going to win games like that.

You're not. So I think blame is on everybody on that team. But ultimately, now you go into Brooklyn on Saturday. They're going to be on the second night of a back-to-back. They face Denver on Friday. So the Nets could conceivably be on a five-game losing streak. You're going to be facing an opponent that's going to want. on it and they're skid that they're on. You got two games against the Nets. You got to win one of those,

man. Or who knows how long this streak could go when you would have the longest single season losing streak of all time. You've got to win one of these next two. But I worry for them, man, very, very, very, very much, especially when they say, we're not this bad. No, you are that bad. Well, and we talked about it a couple of weeks ago. And even the Detroit Free Press wrote an article about the pod that we did where I was so disgusted at watching the pistons. You remember that? I was so disgusted at

watching the pistons. And here's the big here's the biggest problem. When you're talking about being flat foot, you're talking about missing assignment, you're talking about all this different stuff, right? Like, that is a team

that you can't lose 25 games and be engaged with the coach. You can't. It's impossible. And so that is a team. And I've seen this happen in other situations. I covered a team like this where when the young guys on the team kind of like band together and it just becomes a back of the bus, F this guy, it's, you're not getting, you're not roping

those guys back in. And it just starts spiraling. and everybody grabs the box score after the game, and they become concerned only with what they're doing, and they're calling their agent, and see, is there a way that I can get out of here? And it's just, it is, it's tragic to watch it happen. I have watched it happen up close before,

and they are not tuned into this guy. They've let go of the rope for him, and that's why it's the hardest situation of the world. They extended, you know, they gave Troy Weaver that kind of, Project extension for God knows why. And now they just paid this. He is the highest paid coach in the NBA. And so there's nothing to do with him.

Right? Like most of the time, you would just blow it out. You would just say, all right, it's not working. Like any other coach, any other coach in the world would be fired. Any.

There's no way anyone could withstand. understand this, if unless there is a organizational, you know, credo to lose on purpose, right? So Brett Brown was supposed to lose on purpose or Mark Dagnold at one point was supposed to lose on purpose or name the guy. They're not trying to lose on purpose. I know. This is just blatant incompetency. It's crazy.

And they don't have, like, I look up and down their roster and there's guys I still like. It's unfathomable to me. Like, that is the one thing I will agree with Cade Cunningham. There's no way they should be this bad. They are, though. They are. And, you know, everybody loves Monty in the league.

But, I mean, this is unconscionable to lose the training. I think the sons were happy to move on. So maybe not everybody in the league. I'm talking about he is a beloved figure within NBA circle. A good man. A good man. That's right. A good man, yes. Coaching. Well, that's debatable.

I mean, well, look, there is no debate. He is a horrendous fit for what they have. This should be someone growing with the job, right? This should be someone that is trying to figure out, okay, here's how we develop this guy. Here's how we develop this guy. We're going to see what we got here. We got a bunch of young talent, what fits together. And instead, you don't know what you're getting on a given night.

And the means in which he has tried to get points across, I think, has led to guys losing confidence in him. Rather than being, I think it goes without saying, than being motivated to be better. Sure. I mean, what you said about John Morant made me think, as you were just talking, you said how, like, if you don't have your star player, typically your team looks bad, right? Yep. And, like, then you get that player back and suddenly the team looks good. And it just made me think about the worst teams in the league. And they don't have that star.

None of them do. Like, none of them have a top 40, top 50 player on their roster. Like the worst teams, the league. The Pistons don't. Sorry, Cade is not a top 60, maybe not a top 70 player right now. The Spurs, Wembe on certain nights is, but most nights, Wembe is not currently a top 50 player. The Wizards, they don't have a top 50 player. The Blazers, Jeremy Grant, is their best player or Malcolm Brogdon or Anthony Simons,

but none of them are top 50 players. The Hornets, they're without lamello ball a lot of the time. none of like all the worst teams none of them have a star and i think for the pistons that's part of it where i look at them and i see like yeah you kind of are actually that bad you don't have a star kate has not popped yet you don't really have anybody to lean on on a night-to-night basis and your depth is just okay you have way too much overlap on the roster with too many guards to do the same thing. Too many bigs who don't offer much of

anything. You're without your best player, Jalen Duran. He's your best player right now because of his two-way impact. And you're without him and he's still not top 50. So I look at that team and I'm like, yeah, you kind of are that bad. They should be a little bit better, but they're still

crappy no matter what. Yeah. Well, and they should be, you know, you should see signs of development into whatever they can become. And that's what's not really taking place. It's too bad, man. It's sad to watch.

It really is. When do you think that streak ends? I asked you on Monday night show, and we agreed that one of the next three, which was Utah, they lost that, and now two against the nets, including one back-to-back for Brooklyn,

and then Tuesday, the day after Christmas. So you still think one of the next two, or do you think that they lose the next two in a row and it keeps on rolling? Okay. My immediate reaction is they'll never win. My logical reaction is, for whatever reason, it has been a minor talking point up until last night.

So Woj tweets it, the whole world knows that this meaningless game between Utah and Detroit now has meaning because they are without their guy. and this is the Piston Chance. And they still lost and they still got embarrassed. And the fact that there are Cade Cunningham viral clips going all around about we're not two and 26 bad and I still think we could get this together or whatever else. That all leads me to believe that they will have whatever their granted. slam effort is will come next game. So you think it's Saturday

against the Nets on the road. Because it hasn't been a thing. But now this is so embarrassing. This is so every, I don't think your average fan knew until last night. But now everybody knows.

Everyone knows. Yes. With all the guys that are missing for your job. Yeah. It's so embarrassing that it's like, dude, do you have, if you have any pride whatsoever, and they didn't, they didn't last night. Right. They didn't have pride last night with that defensive effort. And that's where I'm like, maybe it doesn't happen Saturday.

But I think you're right. They probably, unbelievably looked at it like they wouldn't have to have. I know that's crazy. They were favored in the game. But it is, I'm saying it is human nature. to look across and see a, you know, a bunch of guys that, the Fontechios, who you don't even know who that is, if you're Jaden Ivy, and go, okay, finally, we got one.

And then next thing you know, those guys that never played for Utah, that's their chance. And they're running you out. So I would just say, man, if they don't win Saturday after it's become this big of a story, I mean, we haven't been talking about their losing streak. We talk about how disgusting they are and what a rat team they are. But we haven't talked about the losing. I mean, this has been their losing streak is now front page news everywhere.

Mm-hmm. Like I said, when has Woj ever tweeted about a game? It's like he was tweeting about the damn Super Bowl or something. It was the jazz and the pistons. and people like monitored it. Cairs. Cash in on bawling out this NBA season with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook.

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$10 first deposit required. Bonus issue does not withdraw the bonus bets that expire seven days after a seat. See terms at sportsbook.fandil.com. All right. Other things we got to get to. Pelicans rebounded from getting their heart ripped out and urinary. on by John Morant. And they rebounded against

the Cleveland Cavaliers. They did it without the services of Zion Williamson. And I got to tell you, Kevin, I were kind of like teetering back the next way where people are like saying that they think people are too hard on Zion Williamson. Watching them the other night,

I told you, when he got his third foul, it was actually a challenged play that held up. And he went to the bench. I thought that was by far the best the Pelicans looked. You go and look. It's crazy to me. They're net rating.

They're dead even. It's like less than one with Zion Williamson on the court. To wit, Trey Murphy, who has come back into their lineup and has been absolutely awesome, they're plus 18 with Trey Murphy on the court. and when they have Zion and McCollum, it's a losing combination when those two are out there

because it's just, it's too hard to hold together a defense with those two guys. He doesn't really defensive rebound. He doesn't really move on defense. He plays in these spurts, and sometimes it's a spurt within a game. Sometimes it might be a whole game that he shows up for. But then you have obviously the, you know,

there's a terrible day. yesterday. Mariah Mills showed back up out of nowhere and with a video talking about sodas and treadmills and the reporting gets done on his contract, which I think caught a lot of people by surprise. Tell me what you thought when you saw the details reported of Zion's contract and the idea that it is not fully guaranteed. The Athletic had a full report that detailed every, every, you little note you didn't know, but the basics are this. The future of his deal is currently non-guaranteed because of his amount of games played last season.

There's ways in which for him to regain guaranteed portions of the deal due to weight clauses, games played clauses, body fat percentage, and a lot of details like that. But as of now, the remainder of his contract is non-guaranteed. And that is fascinating. for him in this position where things feel like they're kind of at a near rock bottom, not quite at a rock bottom, but a near rock bottom where Zion, everybody's talking about him, his play is diminished. It's a scary spot for him to be in right now. And it's in the best interest of him and the pelicans that you don't even think about waving him or getting rid of him

or anything like that. But I think you're spot on, Chris, with what you said, that the team often feels like they operate better without him because of his deficiencies on the court and the things that he doesn't do. But, yes, but Tray Murphy is really, really kick-ass, dude. He does all those little things, and he shoots the hell out of the ball. I think with Tray Murphy, after the game, Pelicans head coach, Willie Green had some quote about how, you know, he should have had 40.

And with, with Tray Murphy, he played 28 minutes last night. He has 28 points in those 28 minutes. He had 10, 3 point attempts. I think Trey Murphy should be getting 10, 3 point attempts every single night. That dude is too awesome of a shooter not to get at least 8 or 9 per game. And he should be playing 30 to 35 minutes per game. I would hope Willie Green sees games like last night's against Cleveland. and gives him more and more opportunity moving forward.

But that's tough when Zion is getting those minutes. So how do you find those best lineup combinations like he did prior to the return of some of these guys? Like, can you find that again? And I think Trey Murphy's going to be a big part of that, though. Okay, so here's what I'll say on the Zion contract front. And this is why it would be so concerning to me, Kev. Even the biggest slugs in the world,

when they've got $100, $200 million on the line, you get a different deal out of that. I mean, look how much money Hassan Whiteside made in his career. I remember Mark Blunt in the mid-2000s game is the most amazing effort of his last contract year. It was unbelievable. Oh, my God, Mark Blunt turned it around. And then he went back to lazy, lazy, lazy.

And there was a long period of time where we always used to say never trust a guy in a contract year. If a guy like all of a sudden starts playing at a rate that you just have not seen him play before, it's like, hold on now. Where has this been? Because as soon as I give you the money, then what? But finding out that to me made it so much more concerning because he's playing with a contract with that on the line. And so to come back in the shape that he's in with the level of intensity that he plays,

with and knowing that the contract is online. Now, maybe it's just a lost hope thing where it's like, okay, now my contract's not guaranteed, so I don't, I don't even care. Or my other, and I don't think you need a tin foil hat to say this, does he want it to become non-guaranteed? Does he want to not be there? Because I just can't fathom someone risking hundreds of millions of dollars. You know, either, it's either you don't care or you want it to be so.

And those are only two options to me. Because like I said, even the biggest slug tries when he's got that much money on the line to play games, to get in the best shape of his life. Because he, you know, right? Because it says it's reachable. It's not like it's just non-guaranteed now. He could get it back to where it is. but the the lack of effort to get it back to where it becomes a guaranteed hundreds of millions of dollars.

To me, seems, I don't know, man. I don't know what to make of it. It's one or two. Yeah, I know. It's like these little triggers within the contract that can guarantee the future of years. If he hits his weight check-in points, if he plays a certain amount of games, It's not like the most serious, you know, levels that he needs to reach. Like, he needs to be under 295 pounds.

That's very reasonable under 295. That's not. But why doesn't he care about that? That's what's crazy to me. Uh-huh. If someone told you, I mean, look, if someone told you a weight to get under and here's what you get if you get under this weight. Yeah. or someone said, hey, here's a games played you need to get to, and here's how much money

you get if you do it, you would get in the greatest shape of your life. I would go from building like going sustainable, you know, workout habits to I'm going to I'm going to get shredded. That's what I would do. With my own personal life. That's what's so concerning. And that's just a normal human. We're talking about a professional athlete here.

Yeah. where it should be the prerequisite to the to the gig anyway. Yeah. If somebody just told you, Kevin, if they came to you today and said, I'll give you 50 grand. If you get to whatever, 185, you'd be 185 by the spring. Oh, no kidding. I would be. Of course you would.

Of course you would. If anybody wants to make that offer and just let me up, I will be there. So, hey, on the flip side of that game was Donovan Mitchell's team. And Jake Fisher, we opined about this the last couple of episodes. And Jake Fisher wrote this article about, like, there's no rush or want to to move Donovan Mitchell, despite what's going on with Evan Mowgli, despite what's going on with Darius Garland. And despite that Bill Simmons and Ryan Rissillo just did a. a podcast entitled, you know, Mitchell Trades or something like that. You and I have talked about it.

Everybody's been talking about it. Like, hey, do you pull the trigger now on this and just kind of reset and get the maximum value before this turns into an ask to get out or a request to go to certain places or whatever else? Do you think this is posturing value buildup or do you think legit that, you think, you Cleveland really has no desire to move this guy. I really don't know what to make of it. I mean, I think you want to keep the guy,

but it's a matter of, is that the best choice for you to make? Does he want to stay there? So I think as of now, it's just posturing. You do. And then it just builds up the value. Yeah, or at least it keeps the status quo. And you try to make it work in the meantime.

And then as time passes, you find out if this is a guy who actually wants to be part of your future. Yeah. think that's fair. Other things we got to get to this insane Joelle M. Bede run. The Bontemp's straw poll came out and it was pretty unanimous on five guys. M. B. Diocanus, Luca, and SGA. It's still very early. It's not yet midway through the season. But I did find it interesting that there was such a massive drop-off to, I think the next guy on the poll was Tatum.

And in the spirit of full disclosure, Bontem's text me and asked me to send mine in, and those are the five guys I sent. Yeah, same hair. I had M-Bed at the top, and I had those five guys. And I think this one is fascinating because you're not at the mercy of group think yet on the first one, and yet everybody came up with the exact five guys

with no one else even close. Can we really trust the results of that poll when he's asking schmucks like you? Eh. I mean, it said, it said, I read the article,

it said we polled 100 NBA insiders. So with that, obviously, I'm going to change my bio to include NBA insider, shouts to my guy Tim Bontems. who I think the last time I was with Bontempts he was trying to get me and my producer

Rosa off of a Willy Wonka slot machine in Vegas he was like you guys have won enough come on he's a very frugal man that Bontamps but anyways he he said I'm an NBA insider says what I am changing the buy you the point the point is it

The point is, the big drop off to anybody else. Do you think there's anybody else outside of those five that could get in the mix the rest of the way? Because I thought it was pretty striking that there was a big drop off. No. No, I mean, no, Halliburton. No. How about Edwards? Don't think so.

I mean, typically this has been Best Player Best Team Award. I know things have changed recently. Maybe if there's missed time from one of the other guys, but a lot of those guys are one of the best players in the league on one of the best teams in the league. So I think with Anthony Edwards, he just doesn't have the numbers on par with Luca or SGA or any of those guys. So, no, I can't imagine that anybody else, unless there's time missed, ends up getting into that top five.

I know Tatum's numbers are a little down, But couldn't you see Tatum getting back in the mix? Best player, best team? No. Wow. Really? It's just been the history. The history of that award has been.

But the numbers are so significant for those other guys. The MB thing, I mean, the run he is on is just crazy. He's averaging 35.1 points per game. I mean, just every night, too. You go look at those game logs and it's like, Jesus. man, you know the other team's trying to stop him. He's even better than the last season, man. Which I think that to me tells me more about Joel Embed than anything else.

The fact that you got, you know, your all NBA, you got your MVP, but you did not win at the highest level. And so sometimes when they're, you build it all up to get your respect, to get that sense of accomplishment and that that becomes, in some ways, a finish line. You're right? At least, like, I'm stamped. I was the most valuable player of the lead.

But to come back and be better is that tells you a lot about him as a player and as a guy. Now, he's still got to do it. He still got to do it at the highest level. We know that, right? That's the pressure of being a superstar. But he has been just... unbelievable, unbelievable. And I think he's runaway right now.

I mean, it's him. And then I had number one on mine. I had him one on mine as well, yep. The Sacramento Kings fans are mad at you again, Kevin. And you got me tied up in this. How are you tied up in this, Chris? Because Deeran Fox pulled my tweet and tweeted it out to everyone as a tape. But this was before my posts earlier in the week.

Like your situation with Fox was him quote tweeting you. I'm so mad at you. I'm so mad at you. I was there for Deeran Fox when no one was there. That's true. That is true. I had Deer & Fox on a podcast when nobody was there for him. I interviewed him.

I was there watching him destroy Lanzo Ball in Memphis in the NCAA. tournament and I fell in love that day and I've loved them ever since. And to see that happen to me was just crucial. So here's the deal. I've long said Fox is better than Morant. Shut up. I responded, I responded to a guy and I said, I was defending. You won't go that far. You won't go that far, will you? I was defending you. But I will. And I said, I said, hey, the guy said, Oh, of course, didn't talk about how awesome Sabonis is. Yeah, all you said was that Sabonis has been awesome, this awesome for five years.

That's all my man. And Fox took it as consistency is bad. What is he talking about? You weren't insulting. You were complimenting him. I was complimenting him. I couldn't believe it. That if a guy, like the reason you're not a topic on a recent,

recent podcast is because you haven't done something like spectacular. Like it doesn't stand out. He's consistently great. And it's not like we haven't talked about subonis during the season. We've talked about the Kings winning games in this podcast. We've talked about how good they still are. So I'm like, this is awful. Look at what Kevin has drugged me into.

Now one of my favorite players in the world thinks I'm a goof and is mad at me. And then yesterday someone says, sends me a link. It says Deeran Fox's wife stands up for Demontas Sabonis. I'm like, oh my God. What is happening?

Dude, it's like the national media and doesn't get what Sabonis brings to the table every night. I'm like, how did this happen? Friggin Kevin. It's sir. Frigan Kevin. Oh, my God.

Just the worst. Look what you've drugged me into. I'm mad at you. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All right. A couple other things. You know,

Buck's magic was going on. You know, we got the Wendell Carter. They do. The Kings do need to make a trade. Can we, can we mention this so we don't get any feedback? And I know this is going to hurt you.

The bucks have been absolutely off the charts amazing. Why is that going to hurt? They started. They started because you hate the bucks. It started off five and four. What are you talking about? I don't hate the bucks. I love watching the bucks.

They're fun to watch. I love Janice. Started off five and four. What are now? Yeah. You're a Boston guy. What are you talking about? 21 and 7 for the bucks.

And Zach Lowe had this crazy statistic. Lillard Janice Middleton Lopez, when they've got those four on the court, they are a plus 19 per 100 possessions and a defense that would rank number one. And the point is that that is something to tuck away when it comes playoff time because that's when guys start playing 38 minutes a night. And when they've got their best guys out on the court, they are.

They figured it out quick, real quick. Yeah. I think you've got to give credit to Adrian Griffin for making some adjustments over the course of the season. I mean, ever since the in-season tournament, they've kind of been less ball pressure on defense as well. They're kind of settling back into what they did last season. And these changes probably never should have made in the first place. But it's nice to see the Bucks figuring those things out pretty early on. I would just hope that Andre Jackson starts getting more minutes again rather than Malik Beasley.

Middleton has fallen into a third man role unbelievably. He looks very, very good in recent weeks. And Janus and Lillard simultaneously agree. Their schedule has been ridiculously easy, though. I will say, when I went through and looked at their schedule, I'm like, oh, my God, really, we're going to have to get until January 11th when they play the Celtics to really find out how meaningful all of this is. But they have looked great.

They're winning the games they got it, though. I mean, they blew out the Knicks a couple weeks back. They're killing everybody. Orlando last night, Orlando has been really tough. That's right. Jonathan Isaac had that crazy double block on Yonnas and one position. and they're tough team. We just haven't seen them play the best of the best throughout.

Of course. Well, they get two against the Knicks coming up. So, I mean, they get some. Included Christmas. But no Mitchell Robinson. That is a tough haul. All right. Last thing before we get out of here.

Christmas is coming up. We're going to be excited about the Christmas games. We'll do a pod after them. Three Christmas wishes. We'll go through them real quick. I've got the player participation holds and that you and I are doing podcasts. throughout the new year with all kinds of star matchups.

I think it's been amazing and worked so far. I've got that you recognize how awesome Devante Sabonis is. I'm kidding. I've got that young players stay out of drama. You know, it's been a bad go these last couple years. And with Moran, Zion. That's a good Christmas wish. Yeah.

Morant, Zion, Anthony Edwards. I mean, like, these are three of the best young American players in the world. It's like, bro, just stay out of the news for anything other than basketball. All of y'all. And then I've got that the Spurs will play with a point guard the second half of the year. I have the Spurs one that this, but it's a little different. My Christmas wish is that the Spurs players accept that Victor Wenbanyama is the guy to play through. I also, another Christmas wish, I hope for a very, very active trade deadline with teams just going for it.

really go hard for the championship here because I think the windows wide open, that's also going to require some teams to decide that they don't want to be part of that. And then my other one is I hope the 2024 draft, I hope somebody pops. I think this year is fun for draft nerds because there's no consensus. Nobody really knows who's good and who's not. It's a lot of disagreement in that sense. But I hope somebody pops and like there's that clear player that even Pistons fans could potentially feel good about at the end of the rainbow because right now there is not that guy.

Oh, stop acting like you're not going to have the French guy number one. Come on. I probably will. Hey, and real quick on one of your Wemba Yamma thinks, I know you love Tim Legler. He's great. I saw you promoted his podcast. I heard Leger the other day and I thought this was really smart. He was saying he thinks Spurs are doing it 100% intentionally, not just letting Wemba Yama be one of the guys has to take off all pressure from him. I've said that. I said a lot of weeks ago to you,

like they want to make it hard on them. Yeah. Because it's always been easy on Wemby. He's always won. But also take all pressure off of it for this real year. I think that's fair. I think that's fair too. But I do think there's an element of that where they just kind of rolling the ball out

and letting the guys just figure it out. And is that the best approach? I mean, I think they need to accept that Wembe's a guy out of play through. start delivering the ball. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. Hey, look, everybody out there, we love you all. We hope you have an unbelievable Christmas.

If we did not talk about a subject or a team, it is because we hate them. But we'll try to get to it next episode, okay? All right. Everybody have a wonderful Christmas. You as well, Kevin, and I will talk to you next week. Merry Christmas, everybody. Must be 21 plus in President-Slect states. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC.

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