The Mismatch - Wemby Vs. Chet, Loaded Suns, Bleak Mavs, and More Early Preseason Takeaways

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

Verno and KOC discuss their excitement for the upcoming season after watching Victor Wembanyama battle Chet Holmgren in the Spurs' preseason opener against the Thunder (01:32). The Suns defeated the Pistons in their first preseason game, and the guys debate just how potent the Suns offense could be and discuss all the obstacles that Monty Williams will face as he tries to turn the Pistons around (20:00). The guys discuss how Jrue Holiday came off the bench, Kristaps Porzingis's Celtics debut, and Chris Paul’s unnatural feel with the Warriors (31:54). Also, without Kyrie Irving, the Mavs roster looks very bleak (43:05). Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The ringer gambling feat is your one-stop shop for all things betting throughout the NFL season. From week one all the way through Super Bowl 58 in Las Vegas, we have you covered every which way. We've got our favorite futures. We've got props. We'll discuss the lines. And, of course, we'll throw in a few parlets. That's a given. So whether you're a sharp or square better, we'll be breaking it down in terms.

Hopefully, everybody can understand. We'll try to win some money along the way. and be sure to subscribe to the Ring of Gambling Feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me he does every Monday night from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.K. Kevin O'Pomber, Kevin O'Concer, Kevin O'Compter, Kevin O'Compter, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Fierre. Kevin O'Bee.

Wow. Versus. Chet. Whoa. So we are recording this at halftime of the Oklahoma City versus San Antonio preseason basketball game. We had communicated earlier in the day and said that they were going to be on NBA TV. And so why don't we just watch the first half? And that way we'll at least be able to comment on it after seeing these two against each other in NBA uniforms for the first time.

And they're two big draws. Obviously, Chet not playing his rookie year last year, Wemby, the number one pick overall and box office attraction to say the least. And my God, I don't know how many of our, how much of our audience watch this. You need to go back and at least pull up on YouTube, like the highlights from this. That half just got done,

and it was so much more than we could have ever bargained for. At halftime, it is 81 to 74 Spurs. The Spurs scored 43 points in the first quarter of a preseason. game, their first preseason game, which is more points than they scored in any quarter all last season or preseason. Their highest score was 42. In the second quarter, the Thunder scored 44 in the quarter, which gave us an 81 to 74 halftime score with Ched Holmgren having 21 points and nine rebounds and Victor

Wimbayama having 18 points and three rebounds. bounce. And, you know, the announcers are talking about how this could be a thing that we see for years to come. You obviously pray for health for both of these players, especially given their grotesque size and the inability for many of that size to have, you know, great health and be able to play 82 games on a regular. But good grief, Kev. When you look at these two, and I'm thinking about this upcoming season and I'm thinking about these league past nights and going out of your way to check teams out.

The level of entertainment, just watching those two on the same court and be so far beyond any expectation you could have. I mean, I know defense is not at a premium, but both of them are so damn, good to be on an NBA preseason court even for the first time. It's not common. You don't see guys just come out there and do what they were doing even in that first half. And it got me so excited about both of them and both of those teams for this upcoming year because we are going to have

two to truly go out of our way to check out. And already they're doing it. in different ways. Oh. Because we're seeing both of them in the first half have hit a pair of three pointers. One of the threes that Wemby hit was coming off of a handoff where he's like running from the right corner into the towards the middle of the three point line, takes the handoff, sidestep dribbles into this kind of fade away three pointer.

Like unstoppable if a guy of that size is doing that. We're seeing them both attack from the perimeter like doing these crazy. crazy moves. Also, it's like the future. It's the future. It's alien versus alien. Yes.

And both of them flexed multiple times. Like with the with the drive to the basket. And at one point, Wemby head budded, Chet Holmgren on his drive and got the end one. And on the other end, Chet just bodied Zach Collins. goes to the basket, lays it in, and then he's flexed.

He has no muscle, and he's flexing. And I'm like, this is the most entertaining thing you could ever watch. The Wemby thing, the crossover drive, and then obviously the pull-up side step three, like all I was thinking about was that meme and how many times it's going to be used this year when people see him for the first time, the chick on the airplane that's like, I'm telling you, not real,

he's not real. Like, that's what it felt like. Like, how is this even, it doesn't even, I'm watching it and I know it sounds over the top, but people got to see this to believe.

It's not, it's not over the top. It's not over the top at all. I mean, that's why we can't talk about it without, like, laughing in the middle of our sentences. It's just unbelievable to,

actually look at this and be like, oh my goodness, it's actually happening. This is actually real. These guys are actually doing these crazy things in the court. Everybody's been trying to tamp down expectations. You know, like, oh, he's probably not like. I'm like, how is he not going to score? Like, what is how?

I'm trying to figure out how he doesn't score. His first bucket, he tipped in a missed free throw where he just reached. over Ched Holmgren. Chad Holmgren's like 7-1. He just reached over him and tipped it in like a dad playing against his kid on a mini-goal. It was ridiculous. I'm like, how's he not supposed to score?

This isn't even really like the new Tim Duncan versus Kevin Garnett. This is kind of like the evolutionary Kevin Garnett versus evolutionary Kevin Garnett. That's what this is. I mean, like these two tall, lanky, skilled. seven footers who can do everything on the floor. And they're on two teams that clearly already, Greg Popovich using Victor Wenbanyama in unique ways, Mark Dagnol, with the Thunder,

using Chet Holmgren, leaning into his playmaking and his handling. Two really great coaches, understanding the talents that they have, surrounded by great young teammates. Like those KG teams back in the day versus Tim Duncan, the wolves had some good years, but they, for the most part,

they had a lot of down years. The Thunder are low. voted. Jalen Williams, we're not even seeing Shagildes-Ele-Alexander tonight, Josh Giddy out there, so much talent, the Spurs, Devin Vassell, I really like Malachi, Brenham, there's talent on both these teams. I mean,

I had the Thunder, I forget where on my power rankings last week, 14, 13, something like that, top 15, the Spurs, if Wemby, it's only one half of basketball. It's only one half. But, I mean, Wembe's a game changer on defense. We didn't even talk about the

block he had on Jalen Williams in the first quarter. Jalen Williams, smaller, quicker. He was a rookie of the year candidate. He looks like he beats Wemby for a layup at the rim. But then Wemby recovers because he's so long, he can be five feet away from you and still block your shot. There's going to be a lot of that this year. Oh, yes. He thinks he beat Wemby, but his shot is getting blocked. No, they're switched off onto, they try to get him out on an island. Obviously, you do the switch to you try to get the small on the big. And even you saw at the very last possession of the half, Jalen Williams got that switch.

And so now it's him versus Wemby. And it's in that case, many guys do drive to the basket. And you saw him just do the ultra stepback three. Like, I'm going to be so far away from you that you can't block it. And that's going to be my mode of operation in this. But people would have to see it to believe it. We know it's preseason. But there is no question.

Putting the ball in the bucket is putting the ball in the bucket is putting the ball the bucket. And both those guys, it's hard to imagine. Like, I go to preseason games and then 41 regular season games a year, including playoffs. And the level of defense played in a regular season basketball game is not so stringent that these guys are not going to be able to get buckets. I'm sorry. Like, and I don't care who they're playing to get. They are matchup nightmares. And I think if you're guilty of Alexander, you're probably sitting back watching that like, all right, I'm going to throw him the ball

a little more. Like, this guy can get buckets for me. And obviously Giddy is feeding him. Like, I, you tune in to see Wemby and you walk away going, damn, Chet. Like, he was the one that we didn't see last year. And here we go again with Sam Presti. You know, he nailed that Chet Pick. He obviously he nailed the Jalen Williams pick.

You know, the, Gildes-Alexander trade just looks unbelievable and getting him signed up long-term and then going, you know, convincing him to go through this short rebuild. The giddy pick nailed. And it's like,

this is some serious young talent. And again, the team on the other side's got some serious young talent as well. And it's, you're just watching these two. You know, I think, maybe Oklahoma City is a little further along than the Spurs are in the development, but future is certainly insanely bright for both of those franchises.

And they are, nobody's walking over either of them on a regular, you know, Tuesday night where the last, you know, certainly the Thunder were very competitive last year, but the Spurs were one of those that people just chalked up as a win. it didn't really matter, but like, there's really, I don't even know who's going to be truly bad. Like, I think Portland's going to be catching people. Houston obviously is much better than they were last year. Like, I don't think in the, and obviously there's going to be some teams in the Western, or in the Easter conference.

The Wizards could be bad. They're like the one team that I look at and I'm like, yeah, they're going to really stink. Yeah, and like, and I'll get to a team in a little bit, you know, that I'm a little worried about. But honestly, when you look up and down it, it's like if San Antonio is super competitive and if Oklahoma City is as good as we think they're going to be. And like it's, you kind of look at Portland and Utah. And Utah was like the story of the NBA last year fighting for a damn playing spot when they had no business. according to anybody doing that.

And Portland, like, you look at their roster. I mean, it's, look, they're not going to win a ton of games, but they're certainly got, they got enough talent to be able to catch you on the night that you take them, you know, lightly. So it's Western Conference is going to be a bloodbath if these two, you know, have this kind of talent, the Spurs and the Thunder. I think that's one of the big, I mean, top the bottom in the west.

It's going to be tough every single. night because you said it with the Blazers. Like they have good players. I mean, Jeremy Grant, really good player. You know, you had Robert Williams and DeAndre Aiton. You could have a really good defense. I was at Blazers training camp on Saturday. I talked with Chaunty Billups and DeAndre Aiton for an upcoming thing on the ringer.

And like, you just look at the guys in that roster. Malcolm Brogden was just six men in the year. They have a lot of good players. It's just their young team. They're led by a rookie point guard. Young teams don't usually win. But they're not going to be a team that people, you know, roll over every single night. I think they're going to be a tough out competitive into the fourth quarter a lot of the time.

And that's kind of what Chauncey said to me. He's like, you know, we make no mistake. We know we're a young team. But we're going to compete hard every single night. We have a lot of talent in this locker room. And I mean, in the same way that we're talking about the spurs with Wemby, if Wembe is healthy and if he's dominant on defense and if he's producing efficiently offensively, he helps elevate the spurs.

It's similar for the Blazers. If Scoot Henderson is all reports out of the camp, say he's been awesome on defense, totally locked in, being the head of the snake for their defense, kind of supporting Grant and all the Tybal and all the talented defenders they have on the backline, if he's good, it elevates the Blazers. So, I mean, we'll see with these rookies. We will find out. Yeah, but one of the things, Kev, is like they're, they feel so much better prepared.

I watched that destination NBA. It's actually ringer film. Bill was promoting it a couple of weeks ago, and when I was on a flight last week, I watched it. It's great, by the way. It's really good. I enjoyed it a lot. I think it's like great stories, even beyond Scoot, Mac McClong and all the other guys. Denzel Valentine, the guys who didn't make it in the NBA.

It's a lot of great stories about people that have gone through the G League. Well, and there's nobody that can watch that doesn't come away rooting for Gabe York. Right? Because he's so intensely likable in it. But we're inundated with 100,000 sports docs. There's ones that coming out like literally every week. And I had not gotten around to that one yet. And it was very good.

I liked it a lot for sure. But anyway, you come away loving scoot as well. And I'm sitting there thinking about it and him coming in so young at 17 playing in the G league. and you think about the level of preparation that he has for this next level, which is great. Chad Holmgren was, a lot of these guys are young for their class. He was already old for his class. So he is more of an adult than your typical rookie that comes in, and obviously he missed all of last season.

And then we know the level of competition when Bahama has been playing. He's been playing against grown men. And so these guys are just much better equipped to play on this level than I think what we were used to for so much of our childhood and teenage and young adult years, which was guys would come into the league and there's that. there's a real learning curve that takes place and they're not ready to be guys that can really affect winning and losing immediately. And I think that's not so anymore. Like these guys can. They can go out there and get a bucket for you immediately because Scoot Anderson's been playing in the G League. And Chad Holmgren is a little bit older than a lot of guys that are in his class.

and Wembe Yama's been playing against grown men. These are different grown men, but I mean, I don't know, man. I think that, I think this, if we're throwing Chet into this rookie class, there's going to be some serious pop with some of these guys. And just those two, you could have a real battle for a rookie of the year thing. I mean, this could end up one of those all-time great rookie classes. Good. And we didn't love the draft past Wimbabama, you know?

Not in breath. Well, not to mention, you know, like Brandon Miller and Charlotte, if he's able to excel right away next to La Mello Ball and Miles Bridges and some of the talent they have in that team, the Thompson twins, Osar Thompson hit the big game-tying three-pointer for the Pistons in his preseason debut. He filled up the box score in a lot of different ways. Bro, what were they doing playing in 38 minutes?

I don't understand. What is that? Monty Williams had a quote after the game where he's like, I didn't realize how many minutes he had. It's like, dude, you've been coaching for how long? That's so extreme. I know. I saw that box score.

Oh my God. I was like, are they not going to start Ivy? And then the second thing was, what the hell they played in? There's a freaking game seven of the NBA finals? Or is it the first preseason game? Dude, I don't get it at all. That's just ridiculous. But Monty's quote, you know, I didn't realize how long I had him on the floor.

It just does go to show the positive impact that an Osar Thompson or an armand Thompson, and both of them as twin brothers can just make them the game. Whereas a coach, you just can't help but leave them in the game. They're so good. God bless. The NBA season is almost here, so make sure you're ready for tip off with Fandul, America's number one sports book. New customers get $200 on bonus bets guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet.

That's $200 and bonus bets win or lose. From the championship odds to player awards, Fandul has you covered. as preseason's getting rolling, now is a good time to look at some under the radar teams, whether it's for awards, like Tyrese Helleburton at plus 5,000 for most approved player, or teams that are competing for the NBA finals. Like the Warriors at plus 1,400 feel like a really good value bet. The Clippers at plus 2,700, they're not my pick for sure.

I don't trust Kauai and Paul George will stay healthy. But if they do, that's pretty good value as the 10th highest finals odds. in the league on the Fandul's sports book. So if you've been thinking about joining Fandul, there's no better time to get in on the action. The app is easy to use. There's a wide range of futures, even aside from awards and finals odds.

There's win totals, players stats, awards, conference winners, and way more than that. And now Fandul is also now live in Kentucky. Download the app and take advantage of their great special offers and boost to celebrate. So visit Fandul.com slash mismatch. Make every moment more with Fandul. Dole, official sports book partner of the NBA.

Must be 21 plus and present in select states first online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-lidrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook. Fandul.com. Let's touch on that game. Because if we're talking about like, look, I love overreacting to the stuff we see in the preseason.

That's kind of a good theme, considering we started with, our undying love for the Chet Wemby matchup that we just got to watch in the first half, the sun's out the gate making like 17 of their first 21 shots and dropping 46 points in the first quarter. Like whatever you envisioned of like, hey, what could this look like? It was like all of it. I don't know how you make that many shots. It was, if you think, like, man, this is great 2K team.

Like, this could be really devastating. And then you see them make 17 of their first 21 shots and they're flying up and down the court and popping the ball right. And I was like, good grief. And it was going to be interesting to see who they started alongside those three. At least one glimpse. And this is one of the things that we look at in preseason is how are these coaches kind of who are they starting? and kind of what the rotations look like. We know Durant, Beal, and Booker have their spots.

It was actually a Kogi and Nurkish for the first one. So no, like, they didn't go with, like, point guard along with those guys. Like, they're letting these guys share the distribution. Like, it's kind of an equal opportunity thing. Obviously, Booker's probably going to have the ball the most initiating things. But then you figure, like, and we praise them. them for how they were able to put together kind of the rest of their roster. Like, Grayson Allen's going to play for them for sure.

UBanks is going to play as a big. Wadhanabi's going to play. Diop's going to play. Eric Gordon's going to play. So, I mean, that gives you a shit. That's 10 already. And then who knows, like, you know, of the others, Damien Lee and Matthew and Sabin Lee. You know, there might be a couple other guys.

But, I mean, you at least got 10 that you know we're going to, like, get minutes for. you and can fill in when somebody's got to miss a game or two or a week or two. But man, coming off of that, like coming off the, hey, what's this going to look like in reality with Beal Booker and Durant to drop 46 your first time out the box? Again, we know it's preseason, but buckets are buckets in these guys. I mean, when you only miss four of your first 21 shots, I can't help but be blown away. and man, they are going to be potent, potent. And it's amazing how many of them all just came off the dribble.

That's what it's going to be just pull up after pull up, after pull up, after pull up with those guys. In transition. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right? They're going to get the ball, get up down the court, you know, because that is, it is something you notice.

The speed, so much quicker. It's like double, double time compared to Chris Ball. Like after three years with Chris Ball, it was not even close. That's right. And they're a lot easier to defend. you know, this was, when they played against Denver, you know, when they didn't have Paul in there, that was like the one, the games that they got off, that was it. That was taking the ball off the court.

That was just beating them down in transition, not letting them set up. Like when Booker went crazy and Durant went crazy in unison and they were dropping like the, you know, 35 plus games between them, those were, you know, when they get, you get them in transition, and you got matchup problems. You know, you're not able to, you know, you're having a cross match on this stuff and just any kind of space. It's almost like, you know,

it was amazing that being as bogged down as they were sometimes. They're just so individually talented. But, man, they get up and down the court and play with some pace. They are, I don't know how you're supposed to. The shooting is just free. shot making between just Durant and Booker and then you're just throwing in Beal in the mix. But Chris, it's not even besides those guys, I mean, like, Grayson Allen had a big night off the bench.

He's going to have nights where he's shooting the ball well. Eric Gordon can have big nights. They got shooters. They have want to lobby. They have different types of centers. Those are all guys that can make open shots, which is every frigging shot they take is open. That was the problem, right? Koki's not even the guy that really, like, makes open shot.

So he may, he may not be able to hold on to that spot, you know, with them. But when you're playing with those three, just be the other guy that's standing in the corner that they're going to throw it to you. And why did I be, you know, when he was playing with Durant in Brooklyn, he was shooting like 50% from corner threes, remember? He's going to, you know that's why they went and got him because it's just a, Durant gets it on that high side. He drives in, kicks out of Yuta, and he just became a professional corner three shooter. That's it. Yeah, they have a ton of different guys. They have a lot of options.

Like there's going to have to be sacrificed as well. Like some guys aren't going to play that do deserve to get minutes in NBA rotation. So that's something to monitor on the sun side of things. But ultimately, there's no denying the level of talent that roster has offensively. And we'll see how things develop defensively and how they figure out the best lineup. configurations to use and also just how Nurkich looks. I mean, he has not been the same guy defensively with his major injuries that he's had over his career. Can he tap back more into some of the stuff he had pre-injury or are they going to have to lean more on Eubanks who they got prior to Nurkich,

who is a bit more versatile, can switch a little bit more, and is an explosive at-room finisher. So we'll see what way they end up kind of figuring out this big man rotation, but they have different types of options and even met to. You mentioned him. He had two threes in the game. to bring some size and some spacing. Granted, he hasn't shot the ball well in his career. Maybe he's developed a bit there. So they have options. Be interesting to see how Frank Vogel figures that rotation out with the amount of guys that he has.

And Eubanks is a lot more like the guy that worked so well with them last year, Landau. Right? Same kind of thing. So they're devastating. On the other side, Detroit, and I know they paid Monty Williams. You know, they basically bought him an island to go coach that team. but it's weird. Like, I like a lot of their youth.

I like a lot of their, you know, young players, but he's got a lot of figuring out to do. Like I look up and down that roster and I'm like, what is this rotation going to be like? You know, they got a couple of the vets in there and Alec Berks, obviously, a McDonovitch will play. And I'm like, is Wiseman going to play? Is Bagley going to play?

Is, are they going to be in the rotation with Duren? Is what are they doing with that? that Ivy Thompson K thing and Killian is he getting that guy? I was going to say don't leave El Killian. But I'm saying, I don't know, like, you know,

because they've sucked and they've had injuries, you know, I never really thought about it. But now you see it all and when it's all healthy. It's like, I don't even know what the rotation is going to look like there. Seriously. It's a lot of names.

And it's like a weird mix. It's like an accumulation of, talent and yet like are Thompson Cade and Thompson Cade and Ivy got to play together a lot? Or what are they doing on the

Duren Wiseman Bagley like that? I just I don't really know. I don't really know how they're going to be figuring this out. The big question with the Pistons is how good is Kate Cunningham? Is he going to be the face of your franchise? Is he just a good player? Because to me,

like Cade gets a pass last season. Obviously, he's hurt. His rookie year was impressive. It was a good start, but he didn't necessarily look like a for sure top 10 player, his rookie year. So is this year going to be a third year leap for him? Is he going to, is he going to pop? Is he going to extend his range behind the three point line? Is he going to be a guy averaging 20 plus points per game on great efficiency, energizing that offense?

Or is he just going to be one of the guys that is handling the ball? ball on that team. Like you said, with Jane and Ivy, Killingen Hayes, Osar Thompson, and like, never mind some of the veterans they have. Like Bogdanovich, he's bigger, but he handles the ball. You get Alec Berks in that rotation. He can handle the ball a little

bit. Will it just be by committee, or is Cade going to establish himself as the dominant piece on that team that demands having the ball in his hands? That's going to decide whether this piss this team is just like, oh, yeah, they have good talent, or, oh, oh, they actually have like, an incredible

bright future. And you know, the other thing, I'm in love with Ivy, and I'm sitting there going, like, did this stymie that? Like, you know, like, is the Thompson thing? Like, what are we doing here on this? Like, who is this good? Did you just draft over him? He's a fifth

pick a year ago? And it's like, are these guys not going to be able to play together? Or are they? Consecutive years, they draft. Kate Cunningham, Killing Hayes, and Jane and Ivy, Saw Thompson. I mean, like, year after you have,

it's guard, guard, guard, guard, ball handler. So it's like they're just, they're throwing darts hoping one of these guys pops into a star. And Monty Williams throughout preseason, I saw the quotes with him hyping up, Killian Hayes. And I'm like, whoa, don't get me too excited here.

Monty Williams saying Killian's looking good. And then you realize he's the fourth point guard? Yeah, but then he looked better like in preseason. He looked great. He looks really good during. in that first preseason game. So Monty, you know, talked him up. So, like, how do you distribute the touches for all of these guys that need those

developmental reps? That's a real challenge for the Pistons. And if I, like, it's so early at this point. But I do wonder if at some point during the season that, like, Troy Weaver and that Pistons front office determines that we have to move one of these guys. And even though we're not in a position where it's about winning, it's about evenly distributing the talent on this roster for the sake of development. Too hard to develop all of them.

Yeah, you can't. No, it's too hard to develop all of them, right? I mean, I went through this many, many, many years ago. You know, you look up and you, you know, at one point you've got Kyle Lowry, but then the next year you draft Mike Conley over his head. And it's like, then Kyle Lowry hates his life. It's like, what? This was going to be my chance.

And now you had to move him. You had to move. And they ended up, you know, it was one of Darryl Morey. Lori's best moves ever was acquiring Lowry in Houston for pennies. And it's like, but it was one of those things where it was like, all right, now we've decided this is the guy so this guy can go. And obviously Kyle Lauer ended up going off and winning a title and, you know, making seven or eight all-star teams and having a great career.

But I've seen it happen before. And it's, you know, it's going to lead to some discontent. And if you want to do right by both your guys. Mike Conley doesn't become what he becomes, and Kyle Howard doesn't become what he becomes, unless they would have broken that up. It would have been amazing to have both of them, but there's no way.

You weren't going to be able to do it. And both of them ended up having very good careers, for sure. Celtics and the Knicks were playing tonight. I didn't pay attention to it because the Celtics weren't playing anybody. The Celtics did play their guys in the first one. The Knicks did play their guys. One thing, it is worth mentioning, though, like mid-fourth quarter as we record another good Peyton Pritchard game.

He had a big first preseason game, and he has 21 points as of currently recording four of 11 from three. I mean, like they gave him the contracts. Four pockets full. Yeah, that's what is. He got the contract extension. It seems like Pritchard is definitely part of the way they envision having a point guard off their bench. All right. So speaking of, point guard off their bench, I feel like we might disagree on this.

So first time out the gates for them, it's hard to judge Philly. Philly obviously did not have Harden. They also did not have M-B'd in that first game. But they played their guys. And it was going to be interesting to see what Boston would roll out there for a starting lineup. And they rolled out Derek White along with Brown and Tatum. And then the two picks. Porzingis and

Horford. And the idea is that, you know, they had told Derek White after the Marcus smart thing that, you know, we're clearing the way,

give you more opportunity, you know, that that's going to be your gig. Well, then they went and got Drew Holiday. And I know there's a lot of Boston feds, including our boss, Bill Simmons, who talk about Derek White,

like he's the second coming of, I don't even know, like Chris Paul, but Derek White's good, but Drew Holiday is a way better basketball player than Derek White. And you just traded these guys to get him. And it's like, is he really going to bring this dude off the bench? Is he really going to bring Drew? Did you really just acquire Drew Holiday?

And now he's going to bring him off the bench? And that's going to be Derek White's spot. Again, we'll see as the preseason goes on. But that was at least what they did coming out, gate. And I do wonder on that if it's one of those, man, we told Derek that this is going to be his thing. Mazula said after the game, part of the reason why he did that is just because Drew showed up way through the week. And it was just, they're going to experiment with different lineups. I think, I think you'll see sometimes maybe poor Zingers or Horford come off the bench too

during the preseason. I would expect the Celtics to try different things out and see what works. Drew Holiday has to start for that team. Drew Holiday is just, he's better at everything than Derek White. Yeah, I mean, but I guess sometimes it's not about who's better. It's about what makes more sense for your rotation.

Like, who finishes games is, is more indicative of player quality. Who starts the game? Like, Mono Ginovili was a sixth man at the year. For the song, because Kevin McHale was a six man at one point.

So it's like, it's not always about who starts. It's who finishes games. in my opinion. So you think Drew Holliday? Well, I mean, Derek White, I think that's a great role for him is being the other guard.

But I know that it's got a lot of fans in Boston. There's no way around that. I mean, but it's, but like if you're starting Tatum and Brown and poor Zingis and those three guys are going to be getting shots and touches, maybe it does make more sense to start Derek White and then have Drew Holiday more of the ball.

handling presence, be your six man off the bench and energize the offense. Yeah, I mean, I could see a world like that despite the amount of money that he's making, but also I guess it depends on Peyton Pritchard and the vision on him too. If Pritchard continues excelling and you can't help but give him minutes off the bench, maybe you do star Drew and then have Derek White

and Peyton Pritchard be your bench unit for the back core. Like, there's just, this is why with the Celtics depth, you know, the conversation we had after after they made the trade and then we're like, who's going to who's coming up their bench sam houseer luke cornet patin pritchard like who's going to be o'shay bursette they bunch of white guys brissette's not dolano banton's not but lamar stevens i mean we'll see what but they have they have

some quality talents it's just a matter of who ends up uh manifesting from this big bunch where they deserve minutes and if nobody does that's when they they would have to make trades to improve their depth. But I'm intrigued by Boston's flexibility and their options and their rotation. And we'll see what Brazil is doing. Well, Porzangis looked awesome. First time out, he looked off. Sensational.

I mean, the freaking follow dunk and the pull up three. And it was like, geez, you start to remember, like, once upon a time, he was, like, it's funny, wrapping it back around. Not once in a part of time. Last year was his best season. No, no, no. What I'm saying is once upon the time, he was the guy that was the unicorn. As we talk about these guys to start tonight, he was like the guy that was like,

have you ever seen anything like this? He's 7 5 and he faces up. And I remember the first time I ever saw him in person. His, I think it was his rookie year. And he came to town. And, you know, the starting power forward for Memphis was Zeebo. And just to see him standing next to him, I'm like, oh my God. So big.

He's a foot tall. than him. This is ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, he was like, we talked about him first band, the same way we talk about Chet and Wemby tonight.

And, you know, he's obviously had his injury issues. And he's just, you know, what has befelled him is never really being a part of winning. Right.

And the Dallas thing went poorly. And his best season was last season on a rat team. So we will see. But he certainly looked apart in their first preseason game alongside those guys. And if there was a concern of the foot thing that held him out of international play, that was kind of squared away because there wouldn't there wasn't any hobbling around when he was poking on people. He looked dominant, man.

Yeah, he really did. Like he looked like even better than last season. So, I mean, from what I understand, Porzingis started doing some things differently with his training last summer. before the year with the Wizards. And then it turned into the best overall season of his career. So we'll see if he can build on that this year with Boston. Other ones that stood out, just seeing that Clippers box score and seeing Kauai and Paul George

both playing in a preseason game was crazy. I was like, really? What was the Tailu quote? What do you say, time to wake up or something like that? No, it's something like go time from the start or something. what is I know I know what you're talking about it's some kind of I want to get the quote right because I don't want to I don't want to do that to the great Tailu who was once compared to Bill Belichick which is not a great comparison anymore as you may have known let's let's not get into Belichick because it's just an absurd discussion with Belichick Belichick is remains one of the greatest coaches of all time.

Just a couple of years ago, defensive masterpiece in the Super Bowl, the early 2000s Patriots, those were like before any, but back when people used to say Tom Brady was a system quarterback. I used to be on forums back in the day arguing with people about Brady who said he's just a system QB. I know what those arguments used to be like. It used to be about, oh, all Belichick's teams is loaded offensive line, loaded defense. Belichick built those teams. Belichick coach those teams. So I think with Belichick,

you need to look over the entire span of decades of its career and not just that this recent year, he can't find weapons, can't it's been bad. I'm trying to, I'm trying. No, you know what? You know what? You sound like, you sound like

an Akeem-Eli-Juan fan talking about him when he was playing for the Raptors. What do you think? What do you think about Bill Simmons saying that Belichick should leave the Patriots for another team to get the wins. I think he wants him to leave the Patriots. I don't think he's doing that for Bill's benefit. I think he's doing that for Bill Simmons' benefit.

He's done. I mean, I think the best case probably for Bill Belichick is that he needs another Scott Pioli, like someone who can. The best case is Brady saying he's not going to be on Fox next year and he's going to come back. Can you imagine? Save the franchise. Well, really the best case is bottoming out and getting Caleb Williams from USC. That dude is crazy. So is the one from Carolina.

You got to watch him. Drake May. There's some talent, dude. This is a year to bottom out and get a quarterback. It feels like this isn't one of those like Tray Lance Mac Jones drafts where it's like, oh, yeah, they could be good. But this is like, The for sure type of guys.

Williams and May are both just freakish. Tyron Luce Day 1 urgency plan. That's what it is. Oh, you got the quote. Cool. Yeah, day one urgency. There it is. Okay.

Hey, look, day one urgency. And, you know, of course, on Media Day, Kauai said, there's no NBA rules that are going to make me play games or whatever he said. You know, I'm paraphrasing, but it was something to that effect, right? Marvin Harrison Jr. is on this draft, too. I forgot. Marble Harrison Jr. crazy. Former Colts.

Great. Kawai and Paul George, both out there for preseason game stood out. CP3 playing with Curry and Thompson. Wiggins and Looney. Figure that that about sounds right until Draymond comes back. Right.

Kind of cool to see, but still just feels so weird. Doesn't it feel strange? More than any other star player changing teams. I don't like it. I know. It feels weird, It just doesn't make me feel right.

No, I don't like it. I like him and Curry hating each other. Yeah, me too. And him and Braymond, you know. Yeah. I don't know. Getting in each other's faces. It feels wrong to me.

I feel like the Warriors are not going to, they're not going to win, they're not going to win the finals. I don't like it. It's just something's wrong. Because he's there. It's just something feels wrong. I don't know.

It's not even about that. It just feels wrong. Like you said, they should dislike each other. Yeah, I don't like, I don't like them being on the same team. Okay, so I said earlier, and I got so many people in my life that I care about a lot, that either have a connection to or love the Mavericks. They were the first ones out the box.

Minnesota, I liked. I thought Minnesota looked good first time out, and I like a lot of guys on their roster. They'll have to do some figuring out. obviously on the Edwards ascension in conjunction with Towns and Gobert, as we know, whatever. But they got problems of, you know, talent and figuring out how it's going to work. That Dallas thing, you see it without Kyrie. And I know we were positive about them. I would like the Grant Williams acquisition and whatever.

But, you know, they played those preseason games without Kyrie. My God, Kevin, it is bleak. It's bleak. when you see them without Kyrie, I'm like, damn, bro, Lucas should have just brought his international team come play with. He might have a better chance.

He's out there with frigging OMAX, Prosper, whatever, and Derek Lively. Like, are they expected Derek Lively to be good immediately? And Derek Lively and, you know, whatever the guy's name is, Olivier Maxence, Prosper, and, just call him, Oh, Max. You look up and down their roster and I'm like, God, like, put somebody good in.

And I mean, I don't know, man. I like the Grant Williams thing, but I, you saw them and they weren't any good with Kyrie once they got him last year in terms of wins and losses, as we know. And so it's like, geez, I'm seeing them without Kyrie. and of course they're not going to look good. But then I remember they weren't any good with him. And then it's like, okay, well, now they've just got Grant Williams and a bunch of crap. And I don't know. I don't know, kid.

Like that may be one. We talk about how competitive the West is. Talk about how competitive the West is. That was a team that I probably was, I was certainly higher on them than I was. last year going into this, but then after like seeing it, man, that roster stinks. It really does. It stinks. It stinks.

I'm like, put in Maxie Klebe. Like, I mean, when you're trying to get Dwight Powell and Maxie Klebea back in there, it's like, God, this is some malpractice going on surrounding Luca with this lot. I mean, listen, like, I think if you're a Maverick's. fan looking for silver linings. Derek lively had some good moments defensively, protecting the rim. That's at least encouraging.

OMAX Prosper, not so good. Looking like he's not going to get a lot of minutes unless he can turn that around quickly. But yeah, like the roster. But it was kind of crazy. They didn't even start Josh Green. Yeah, I know. I think Josh Green should be starting.

Like, why? Like right out the gate? That's the guy. Yeah, that was weird. I know. I agree with you there. Josh Green should be starting over OMAX. OMAX will see if he can carve out a role. I'm sure they're still in an experimental phase, too, with figuring out the exact rotation that they'll end up using. But the thing that sticks in my mind from those first two games, Chris, isn't something that happened on the court. It's the video that went viral of Grant Williams goofing around on the sidelines and Kyrie just giving him like the stink guy.

Like, what are you doing, you clown? Like that type of look. You saw that clip, right? Like just, just an early sign of chemistry issues blossoming around Kyrie being Kyrie and Grant Williams being a goofball. So I've just, that's what's stuck in my mind more so than anything that happened on the court because the character in the locker room and the chemistry and the camaraderie that

they have, that's of the utmost importance when we're talking about the Western Conference as loaded as it is. every team has talent, which teams are playing together, which teams are selfless, which teams are fighting hard for each other. It's just that glare that Grant Williams caught on the bench. That made me think that something is up there that is not a positive thing for Dallas moving forward. It's just kind of wild to me that like, I don't know, man.

We started earlier we were talking about that Phoenix team, right? Yeah. Like how do they have guys I like more? They had like five bucks to spend on the rest of their roster. Yeah, they have like so many good players off the bench. Dallas. How? They had like five bucks.

And somehow ended up with more guys that you'd want to kick out to for an open three. It's just all you need. All you need is a bunch of guys. Like he's going to dominate the ball all the time. And then him and Kyrie are going to do the my turn. your turn. So, I don't,

I guess they're trying to hope that, like, maybe some of these rookies can flank it, and you're putting a lot on lively to be good immediately. It's not like lively was a killer in college. You know what I mean? He got off to a horrible start.

Horrible start. And then he finished well. Yeah, fine. He helped. At one point, he went from a guy who could be a top five, top 10 pick to a guy that should go back to college. and then he became the 12th pick.

Like he did fix his stock. But he's going to take some time. Yeah. I mean, like any, like any rookie, like any rookie big, like even the guys who started the podcast talking about Chet and Wemby, they're going to go through their growing pains too.

So is Derek Lively. It's tough. Yeah. But I mean, at least those guys have already been awesome. Oh, yeah. They've been professional.

Yeah, but, Wendy, Wembe was a professional. Chet Holmgren had a year to, you know, get his body improved or like a watch. games, watch film, be around this

team. But he was also one of the best players in college basketball. Yes. The year that he played. Derek lively was not one of the best players in college basketball. He was not even like he wasn't even like great for the ACC.

So I don't know. Put a lot on him. And that I don't know how much you're going to see some serious look of frustration. I hate it for all the people that I care about that love that team. And, man, you just, we're not going to believe it.

You go back to the Bronson thing and it's like, my God. What a, what a catastrophe. And they got a game on Tuesday at 1145 AM Pacific, I believe, against Real Madrid, Lucas old team. Be something out. No Kyrie reportedly in this game either. You don't say. something else.

It'd be something else. Wait a way to try to build that team chemistry. It'd be something else if this one goes poorly for Dallas too against Real Madrid. Yeah. Last thing. I'm actually going to go see the Bucks in person tomorrow night. I'm hoping Lillard maybe plays. You know, they didn't really, I know Janus didn't play,

Lither didn't play in their one over the weekend. So I'm hopeful that I get to see them possibly in person. I'd like to, I'm hopeful. I might see him Saturday. Saturday in L.A. The Bucks are going to play the Lakers. I might go to that one. There you go.

So, yeah, I'm going to check them out tomorrow night. There's a Tuesday night game in Memphis. And then I know that they're first game. And it might be different, right? It's a new coach. It's not Boottenholzer anymore. So they might go about it a little bit different. And you figure some of these guys are going to want to get some reps with their guys in some kind of game situations.

And they usually play, you know, the middle few. And then don't, you know, kind of rest it at the end where nobody plays and you're trying to figure it out. So we will hopefully we'll be back on Thursday, I believe. And then we can talk about it because I'll have actually seen a basketball game in person. The Cowboys were playing the 49ers, so I did not go to the preseason game last night. I watched it on TV, the one that was, oh boy, I wish I would have gone. I wish I would have gone to the Christmas preseason game against Indiana. That went to overtime, no less.

the only time I wished I would have ever gone. But, you know, we've got a kind of a tradition where we go to my dad's house for the Cowboys games. And my mom's birthday was over the weekend. So we went over there and did that. Happy belated to your mom. Yeah. And so we went and did that. And there is some thankfulness of even enjoying the misery together.

At least we can all bitch to each other. And my poor son, I mean, I just, you know, I feel terrible as a father putting him through this. My childhood is great. My childhood is filled with Super Bowls and, you know, Troy Aitman and Emmett Smith and Michael Irvin and Dionne Sanders, all these guys. And it's like all he knows is pain and suffering and losing in the worst possible ways and getting humiliated in huge games.

And it just sucks. It just sucks. I know. I know. It is crazy. It's like I grew up. obviously in the glory of the Patriots years, but I grew up also hearing about the Cowboys

were America's team, and they still had some competitive teams throughout my childhood, but the Cowboys that I remember was like Tony Romo as the holder. Oh, I know. I mean, that 49ers team is. That's the last time. That's the last time

I've lost my mind over again. Oh, Tony Roma? I broke the remote. really wow probably when i knew i probably when i knew i was going to marry my wife she witnessed it in per i mean i i lost my mind i just looked when he fumbled that yes against it wow i mean i thought that they were going to win the like i thought that was the year i think grossman ended up getting there wow bill parcels is a quote of that i coach at that time that's great he was that was a 19 yard field goal dude oh my god and he fumbled it away and i actually i actually i actually

threw the remote so hard that it shattered on the wall. And I mean, that's the maddest. I can't remember. I've been crushed. I was mad about that. Because I believe that's the Rex Grossman year. I think that's the team that went to the Super Bowl against Indianapolis. So that team, I still will forever believe that team could have won the Super Bowl.

And then, of course, it was all over with Parcells and everything else. Am I right on that? Yeah, that's how I remember it. Yeah, that was the Rex Grossman year. Jesus. Yeah. That makes me mad to even think about it. I know.

Freckin Rex Grossman. Ugh. And all you got to do is get a snap down. There's always something. Always, you know. I guess I look. So at least getting your brains beat in like they did last night. That's what was crushing that year for the Patriots losing to the Colts and the

aFC championship game. Oh, yeah. And finally getting his victory for the fourth quarter come back. And it's like, wow, we would have faced Rex Grossman in the circle. Crazy. My goodness.

I know. Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, you know, yeah, it's, I mean, hopefully, hopefully for your sake the Cowboys can eventually figure things out, but they feel so far away. And like the 49ers,

dude, that's unbelievable. Brock Purdy. And they're so frustrated. Brock Purdy, he's good. He's a good player. He makes smart decisions. I agree. I like Purdy.

I'm pro Purdy. I am pro Purdy too. I invented him at Iowa State. I used to pick his team every week to win. And now to watch him play for my producers team is killing me. And Collinsworth, oh my God. I don't even, like this is an NBA pod. But Collinsworth making me feel like I was watching frigging

John Elway. Like, everybody, the Cowboys sucks so bad. The whole damn team was wide open. Micah, nobody even got a paw on the guy. And he's, he's not like he's throwing it in tight windows. These guys, nobody's within 20 yards of them. Like, oh, he threw that past the George Kittle.

There's nobody within 20 yards of him, ever. Like, you could have thrown it, Kevin. And again, he's good. But, I wasn't watching, you know, Aaron Rogers throw it on a, you know, in a one centimeter space. They're awesome, though.

You know, look, I have to live with it every day. My hometown producer is Bang Bang Niner Gang and Rosa loves them so much. I've just got to hear about it. Then face him every day knowing the utter humiliation that took place. It sucked. Suck. F them. I'm done with the NFL season.

By the way, according to our schedule, we do not have another podcast this week. Oh, we don't? According to the Ringer NBA offseason podcast schedule. All right. Then we'll be back next week. I guess we'll be back next week. And then we'll talk about both of our experiences seeing Janus and Dame, hopefully. Maybe.

Yeah. We'll see. I've been, yeah, I'm actually going to go. go see an NBA game in person. Always a pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always. And Kevin, I will talk to you next week. Have a beautiful week.

Must be 21 plus in President Select States. FanDul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit fandul.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. Call 1-800 Next Step, or text next step, 533-3-4. in Arizona. Call 1-88-7-8-8-7-7-7 or visit cCPG.org slash chat in Connecticut. Call 1-800-9 with it in Indiana. Call 1-800-522-470-7-70 or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas.

Call 1-8777-7-70 stop in Louisiana. Visit MD Gamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Visit 1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. Call 1-800-5-2-2-4-7-0 in Wyoming. is here. Visit gambling helpline, MA.org, or call 1-800-327-50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 1-8-7-8 Hope N.Y or text Hope N.Y in New York.