The Mismatch - What Can Blake Griffin Add to the Brooklyn Nets? Plus: KOC’s Midseason Power Rankings

Episode Date: March 9, 2021

Verno and KOC discuss their reactions to the All-Star Game (0:25) and what, if anything, Blake Griffin has left in the tank to pursue a championship with the Brooklyn Nets (9:20). Then they dive deep into several aspects of KOC’s NBA midseason power rankings (20:20), including whether Jamal Murray is on a hot streak or making the leap (22:35), Bam Adebayo having the best season of his career (26:45), Kyle Lowry’s future with the Raptors (30:25), what team Victor Oladipo could end up on (35:00), interest from multiple teams in the G League’s Alize Johnson (45:05), and much more.  Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Chewaker and Kaz host the mass man show every week, breaking down everything in the world of professional wrestling. Check out the mass man show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Join him as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kahneman, Kevin O'Candem. Kevin O'Cannibus, Kevin O'Cannibal, Kevin O'clock,

good mood today. We're in your Dak, Prescott, Jersey. How are you feeling, Chris? I am. I feel great. I am glad that the saga is over with Dak Prescott, much like you rooted for Tom Brady for a long time. You never want to be rooting for a franchise

that changes quarterbacks constantly. And so, you know, a long time spent rooting for Tony Romo, and then now several years rooting for Dak Prescott, and I would have hated for him to be wearing a different uniform. And he got paid. Oh, my God, did he get paid? You weren't into the Danucci-Dalton era last year. We weren't into that.

Let's just say his value went up exponentially based upon the play of the players last season. All right. We are through All-Star Weekend. It was a fun All-Star weekend for me. And I say this because I don't really know how I would have viewed it if I did not have a kid that loved the NBA. but the fact that I do have a kid that loves the NBA, that, you know, invigorates me to enjoy this stuff more than maybe I normally would because there is, there's so much joy for him to watch the stuff, right?

So it's like, all right, we're going to get the three-point contest, we're going to get the dunk contest, we're going to get an all-star game, and you get to see all the best players in one place at one time. And so I didn't really know how it was going to go. You know, they're not splitting it up with the All-Star Saturday night, the All-Star, you know, everything was being done on Sunday. But I will say this. Three-point contest, absolutely unbelievable with incredible drama with Curry winning it. So three-point contest gets an A-plus-plus.

Skills competition was a dud, ends with two big guys, Sabonis and Busovich, you know, at the end of that. So that was kind of a dud. The dunk contest is pretty much a dud. Especially without a crowd, right? The game, though, I will say that the game was rather entertaining in the sense that it was not the competition that we had in Chicago last year. But if the whole idea is everybody's just out there playing and you want to see All-Stars doing All-Star stuff, Curry fit the bill Lillard fit the bill

they threw an alley-oop to Chris Paul which was shocking Curry dunked at one point and so I got enough of that and enough fun and especially like with the guys pulling from half-cord and Curry you know shooting it like LeBron and turning around before it goes

in the hoop and all that stuff so all in all look I'm glad they pulled it off and I was more entertained than I thought I was going to be honestly especially i mean i think the level of shot making was on display i'd be curious about how your son you know enjoyed the whole night watching with you because having it all jam packed into the same night yes like for father's son watching together what was that like seeing it all instead of having all-star saturday and then the all-star game itself was it nice having an all-together

did that make it more of exciting i'm gonna tell you that this is odd so and i didn't realize it until I was watching it all on Sunday night. I never watch it with him. Oh. I'm there. Oh. This is the, I didn't even, you know what I mean? Like I, so by the time he was like of the age where he would really want to see it,

like he watched it maybe in passing, you know, but like now he knows when it is. He knows what time it's at, whatever. But, you know, a couple years ago, uh, I was in Charlotte. last year I was in Chicago and so I've been at the All-Star game or All-Star weekend for that entire weekend. And so he's been at home

watching it by himself. And so this was honestly like the first one that I've sat there and watched with him. And so that was a majorly different experience. It's also different, you know, again, like I said, I've been in the arena

for all that stuff. The last couple of years, And so, yeah, that's why this one I think was particularly different. And I didn't even think about that until we were watching it. But, you know, like, look, you want to see Steph Curry hitting half court shots. You want to see Damian Lillard hitting half court shots. You want to see all these guys doing the fun stuff. And so we got to see that.

And for a kid, I remember when I was a little kid, there weren't games on all the time. So I would tape the entire All-Star weekend. And me and my friends would lower a goal and try to do the dunks, whatever was in the dunk contest. And then we would do the three-point contest and whatever else. And I had cooler friends than I did. Yeah. And I had it taped throughout the year. I had it taped throughout the year.

And you know what? This is actually going to sound crazy. It's when I said that about the whole practicing the dunks, there is, So when I was a kid up the hill from my house, these two guys bought a house that were, and you may actually, I know you're not like a hockey fan, but you will know the name Rod Brindamore. I play, I play Chelle. Okay. You know who Rod Brindamore is. Rod Brindamore was like, okay, he was an outstanding player.

Don't know anything about the NHL. I just play Chelle, the video game. Okay. He was, Rod Brindamore was a great, great NHL player. He was a rookie. with the St. Louis Blues. Him and another blues player bought this house, like up the street from us. And it had a basketball goal that you could lower in the back.

And they were like in their 20s. And so we were like the neighborhood kids, but they would let us play in their backyard on this goal. I was probably, I don't know, 9, 10, 11, 12. You know what I mean? I didn't really have any friends who loved the NBA at that time. It wasn't until I was a teenager and met my high school friends that I had friends who love basketball. So at that time, like,

because I loved watching the All-Star game myself at that time. But I had nobody really to, you know, share it with unless my dad was watching at night. But at that time, you know, sometimes he didn't care for All-Star. Jordan was by far the biggest athlete in the world when I was a kid. Yeah. So everything was Jordan.

You know what I mean? All Jordan. It was Michael Jordan. And then obviously, yeah. So, I mean, and I didn't grow up in an NBA town. But he was just. bigger than everything.

I mean, it's hard to, it's hard to describe. There was no football player, no baseball player that were even in the same hemisphere as him. I mean, he was that big a deal. And so I think that was the truth with every kid of that era. And I think that's why there's so many, I would actually, I've thought about this before, I would hypothesize that there's so many in my age group that cover the NBA and because we grew up loving it from the time that we were a child. He is responsible for that.

There is no question that the biggest athlete at the time when we were kids was him. And so I do think that's why there's so many in my age bracket that cover the league. And I think that will be true as we go forward with this whole era and how big the NBA is. There will be more people covering the NBA than ever before in 20 years. you know, because they're growing up, loving it just like my kid is. You know, no doubt about it. And there's a lot of fun stars to watch.

And that was what was apparent, really, for the whole All-Star Night, you know, with all the events. Like Steph Curry and Damien Lilly going back and forth. It's one to watch. It's fun to watch those guys shooting from Half Court and making it look easy.

That's right. It's why the NBA is like, should we add a four-point line, you know, in the back of their minds, they probably won't add it. But, I mean, who knows in the future? You never know. Players are shooting these days.

Once upon a time, A three-point line seemed insane. You know what I mean? Exactly. So you never know. You never know. While this was, while All-Star weekend was about to get going and they pulled that thing off and it, you know, again, I can only view it through my own prism. I was entertained by what took place over the weekend.

That being said, there was a challenge with Embed and Simmons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was news that broke, which was the Blake Griffin saga in Detroit and Detroit. with the buyout, and then he was going to be able to go to a team, and he is going to the Brooklyn Nets. When you saw the news that Blake Griffin was going to the Brooklyn Nets,

what were your immediate thoughts? It gives them another option, another style to put out on the court, because right now with Brooklyn, they have Bruce Brown, who is a guard-turned center, six-foot-four, who allows them to switch all screens on defense. On offense, he can pick apart teams

like Draymond on the short roll. Really fun to watch, but they can get overmatched on the boards. So they have other guys. They have Jeff Green. They have DeAndre Jordan. They have Nick Clax. And with DJ, you play more traditional. With Jeff Green, it's a little bit more versatile.

With Nick Claxson, you can switch screens and retain size, but you lose playmaking. Blake Griffin comes in. He gives you a little bit of everything. He gives you the fact you can use him in the pick and roll like you do with Bruce Brown. He can playmaking the open floor. He's going to be really valuable for. them in that particular role.

On defense, he provides some size and rebounding that their smaller lineups don't. And even though he has not been good since the 2019 season when he was made an All-Star, when he was on the All-N-B-A team, he has not been good since then. I still think the defensive IQ is there, the intelligence, the communication, the positional defense, the rebounding, the boxing out. That can be another tool for the Nets with what is a flawed deal. defense. But with Blake Griffin, he gives him another look, which could be valuable in another certain matchup, another certain situation against another, what an opponent might be doing

versus size or small ball. So for Brooklyn, I look at their front court. And even though people criticize their defense, I still say this team has a lot of options, a lot of flexibility. And Blake Griffin's just another guy to add to the pile. So that's the question. And you talked about, you know, how he has not been good. That needs to be mentioned. You know, and I think that's what everybody, that's the debate that is going on is, is he done? You know, sometimes guys are just done and field goal percentage wise. If we're just like a field goal percentage last year, he only played 18 games. He was 35% from the field in those games.

This year, 20 games, 37% from the field. and the three-point percentage, miserable too. I mean, 24% last year, 32% this year. So it's like, you know, I mean, these are precipitous drops. As you said, he made 13-M-B-A a couple years ago. He was shooting 46% from the field, 36% from three. When we look at these last two seasons when he has appeared, it hasn't been, you know, geez, Louise, 35% is just anemically low.

Andy has not hit three-pointers either. And so if somebody wants to tell me, like, what are you talking about? He can't contribute? Like, what have you watched? This guy is, he's done. It's over. I really don't know. I don't know if there's a second act left in him or not.

because it has been a long time since he has been anything but awful numbers. Like the numbers are the numbers and they've been awful. It's just the facts. The numbers have been awful. It's just the facts and watching games, you can see it too. Yeah. If he's not Blake Griffin, who we know has the resume that he has, are we even holding out hope that he could, if you put those numbers with anybody else,

that he could contribute to a team like the next? Chris, that Blake Griffin is gone. And it's just about finding a new Blake Griffin. If that Blake Griffin is worthy of being in the rotation for a team with championship hopes or not, we're going to find that out over the coming weeks and months. And with Blake Griffin, here's what I will say. The numbers have been bad the last two seasons, this season and last season. But he's playing around 30 minutes per game.

Blake Griffin, with all his injuries, he looks tired on the core a lot of the time. I mean, he looks like he's fatigued oftentimes. Like three point range, he's short on a lot of his jumpers. I wonder if it's because of tired legs, you know? And for him, maybe he could be better, have more energy in a 15, 20 minute stint. And I know that's sad to say for a guy who's used to dunk everything who's made so many all-star games and has, you know, jumped over a car. That's right.

A dunk contest. Like, this is the guy we're talking about. But that doesn't, who he was doesn't. doesn't prevent him from becoming a new version of himself. And he was more of that in that year. He made all NBA. He was, he was,

but he was still had more pop at that point. But he was not dunking the ball. Like, I mean, remember that stat I sent you a couple of weeks ago? It was like, you know, this in inordinate percentage of his dunks came in the first four years of his career.

I mean, I have the numbers right here. Like he had 214 dunks as a rookie, 119, 202, then it drops 176, 84, 36, 68, 46, 36, 37, that all-star season, the last one. 37 dunks. But then only five last season and 18 games and zero so far this season. Like it has fallen off the clip. But think about this.

He made all NBA with 37 dunks. When he used to be a guy that hovered around 200, which is crazy. It's crazy. but that speaks to the point we're hitting on here. He evolved his game to become a guy at 29 years old, could make an all-star team, could make all NBA by changing the way he played. Now we're going to see in a new role and a new situation with better talent around him and more personnel that suits his strengths better.

Detroit this season and Detroit last season did not have the type of playmaking guard who can unleash Blake Griffin on the short role. we're going to see Blake Griffin used in the role that Brooklyn has used Bruce Brown, what they've used with Jeff Green, what the Warriors did with Steph Curry and Draymond Green. So Blake is going to be in that Draymond role on offense where Kyrie and Hardin are the guy in the Steph role pulling the defense away from the three point line, you know, with traps, blitzes. And that opens up Blake or Bruce Brown or Jeff Green or whoever's screening in that short role. And Blake Griffin, with his playmaking skill, with his handling skill, he can still be a productive guy in that position on the floor, on offense. What level is he going to reach defensively when he's going full throttle with effort, which might not come into the playoffs? I don't know, Chris.

I don't have the answer to that. It didn't look good in Detroit, but I still say he offers a different style, a different vibe to the lineup that some of the other options they have don't. So in that sense, the amount of flexibility Brooklyn has, I feel like is being understated here. It really is, they have a lot of options. By all accounts, good guy, good teammate, good locker room guy. And, you know, what is Blake Griffin if he only takes, you know, he's taking the six shot, eight shot, Blake Griffin. And it's a dream on.

That's what Dream on has become. And the truth of the matter is, while I mentioned, if he doesn't have the resume, do we think that this is in addition to a team. The truth is he does have the resume. And so great players, even former great players, get the benefit of the doubt in this situation, that you know they have. They are extremely talented players.

Can they ever get back to what they were? No. But could they in a minor role? And we've seen all kinds of championship teams have guys that were once, you know, know, really good players play minor roles on him. Like once upon a time, Antoine Walker was winning rings with Miami, right?

And he wasn't Antoine Walker. Dwight Howard just won with the Lakers. Right. You know what I mean? And he might win with the Sixers again this year. And can you contribute some, you know, to the mix? And the other thing is he might be a radically different player just being

reinvigorated playing competitive basketball again. Yeah. It's been a long time since he's played competitive basketball. And so maybe you do get a different guy on that. We are still, obviously, holding out the possibility. He's done. He's washed. It's over.

He doesn't have it anymore. That is a possibility. But because of his track record as an outstanding player for so many years in the league, you know, I think you do have to say if you're playing a minor role, could he possibly contribute? I wouldn't. I wouldn't put that out of the realm of possibility. all I can say is that I love the way Bruce Brown plays for Brooklyn.

I love to watch Bruce Brown, Chris. It's so fun to watch a six foot four guard roll to the rim with Kyrie or Hardin handling the ball. Blake Griffin in that role is going to be fun to watch. It's going to be fun to watch Blake Griffin in that role. I'd be shocked if they don't have success with Blake screening for those guards. Defense, that's the question. That's going to be the question for me.

Like even his spot up shooting. Like what level can his shooting return to? Because it seems like it's falling off. Maybe it's because of tired legs, who knows, whatever it is. But that needs to get better too. But I am excited to see him screening for James Harder than Gary Irving. I can't wait. And the other fascinating thing is, is he okay playing 15 minutes?

I think so. No, but it is hard for guys, right? Like, is he the type? He does feel like the kind that is fine going into, I don't think you sign up of Brooklyn if you're not fine being a role player. Exactly. I don't think there were any prime. promises of, it's obvious he does not want to carry the load. You don't sign up with a team

that's got Kyrie Irving, James Hardin, and Kevin Durant if you feel like you're going to be a featured player on the team. I think he knows his featured player days are done. But some guys struggle with, you know, getting in the mix and just finding being a role player as they extend their career. He does feel like the kind that will be able to settle into being okay. And by the way, from the Brooklyn side, this is a upside move with zero downside. If Blake Griffin, it can offer anything more, that's a bonus for your team. If he struggles, just don't play him and you're in the same place you were before. And by the

way, they can still add other guys. Okay. We got a ton of things to get to in your power rankings. I read the entire thing. How proud of all seven thousand words? I read it all. All seven thousand words from our Every single team. And you will know that I read it all from my notes today because I wrote down the stuff that I want to hit with you about your power rank. See, here's what I would do if I saw that article. I would scroll down and find my favorite team where they were ranked. I would read that section.

Then I would scroll through and see what headlines stood out to me. Oh, come on. Okay. You heard seven thousand words, Chris? I appreciate you. I read it all. Okay. First.

what has been the most blowback you have gotten already for your rankings. Having the Knicks at 11th is shocking. You know what I mean? Because you still have it really... I'll be honest with you,

Chris. I haven't really looked at my mentions the last 24 hours because I've been busy with some other stuff. Oh, good. I'm prepared for a podcast and video later this week.

So I haven't really looked at my mentions. I like to. Usually I get, get hated on for the Knicks rankings. I'm guessing Knicks fans are a lot happier this time around. I usually get hate for Blazers rankings. I usually get told I put them too low. But I think this week, we did take a little bit of a different approach with the

rankings themselves because all season I've sort of been doing this kind of like big picture rank thing, like keeping the true championship contenders up top. But we're just going to do what the power rankings usually are and just do recent performance being a significant factor. and where rankings are. So we have the Brooklyn Nets number one. We have Utah number two and Phoenix is in the top five.

And you got the Lakers way down. Yeah, the Lakers are down because they don't have AD right now. So I like the, I like the rhythm that we're in now with it. Okay. I'm not going to bust you up about the rankings. That's for the fans of these separate teams to do. I want to go through,

and this is going to prove to you that I read your whole thing because I wrote down a bunch of different things that I wanted to hit, okay? And we'll just go one by one. the notes, these are all the notes that stood out to me from reading your article, okay? Yeah. The first one is the Murray numbers, the Jamal Murray numbers that have taken a jump and the numbers without Yokage were very surprising to me. And it's fascinating to see, I think it is something to look forward to as the year goes on.

I think one of the narratives this year has been, Jamal Murray has been, Jamal Murray has. not been the Jamal Murray that we saw in the bubble. This guy looked like he was ready to take a leap into one of the best scorers, possibly in the NBA. Because when you do it, when the stakes are as high as what they were when Murray was doing it, it stands to reason that the next season, oh man, did he just come into his own? A guy that kind of has always averaged the same thing at the end of the year, next year is going to take that big leap.

And then one of the things we've talked about this year is bubble Murray has not shown up in the same way. But number one, he has lately. And I was fascinated with the whole leaving him on the court when Yokic goes out and what he is doing to second units. When you were trying to put this together and obviously you're trying to find something interesting on every team, were you shocked to find the numbers of Murray without? Yokich on the court? I mean, they really pop. The number was over the last 12 games, Murray's been hot just to give some context. Like, he's averaging 29 points on 47% from three over his last 12 games. Super, super hot stretch. Much like we swash him. That's bubble Murray. That's

bubble Murray. And during this time, Nuggets head coach Michael Malone has changed the rotation a little bit now. And Jamal Murray has gone from averaging 5.7 minutes per game without Yokich on the floor to nine. So they've dramatically increased the amount of time Murray is on the floor without Yokic. And during those minutes, he's averaging 31 points per 36 minutes, which is great stuff on great efficiency. He's really killing it in that role. So with Denver, it does seem like is this team has figured some stuff out after a slow start and people are wondering what they're going to be. It seems like they're developing a rhythm here with this new rotation that they have. And I am curious to see how much Murray can sustain this because that's always been the question, Chris.

It's always been the question with him. Consistency. And things can click for young guys and their young 20 sometimes. And that's why the headline on that is, is Jamal Murray on a hot streak or taking a leap? Yeah. We're going to find that out. If he can keep this up in this new role with the new rhythm he's in, maybe it is a leap. Because he certainly has the talent.

We've seen the flashes. So it's about having a consistency. Well, because I remember last year during the bubble, we were saying, you know, people, people had had high opinions of Jamal Murray. But we were saying, like, look, this is, this is unprecedented what's happening with this guy. This guy is like a 1920 point per game scorer that all of a sudden is averaging 35 points a game. Like, this is, this just doesn't happen with guys. Well, this year, you look up. And as of right now, he's averaging 90.

point seven points per game, right? And you say in the last 12, he's averaged, you know, closer to 29 points per game. So which is he? Or is he somewhere? Because even if he just became a 25 point per game score,

that's a leap. That's a leap, right? But instead, we've come into this season after this crazy bubble and playoff run, and he's been what he's always been, which is you can chalk him up for 19 points per year.

a game at these, you know, good percentages. Yeah. Right? And so maybe, and maybe that's what it took. Maybe it is like, all right, you get, you're, you're going to be out there when Yokic isn't. We're not subbing you out at the same time. Because obviously it's, it's giving him a boost.

Yeah. I mean, we'll see what happens. It's only a 12 game sample, but it's encouraging. It's encouraging to see. Only 24 years old, Chris. Still so young. I know. Heat fans frustrated with Bam out of bio

I was shocked to read that Is that Is that a overwhelming sentiment that you gather From I just was shocked Overwhelming, I don't know But Heat fans like Bam out of bio The point of the blur in the article is that he is taking a leap this season

Bam is having the best season of his career Undoubtedly as an individual player but Heat fans, a lot of the time, they're left wanting more because Bam has some passive nights where in those dribble handoffs, you often see him in with Tyler Hero running around a screen. He might not be playing as aggressively as Heat fans would want with attacking mentality going at the rim, trying to create shots for himself, trying to be a past first player. And Bam has talked about it a lot after games. I got to be more aggressive.

I got to be more aggressive. And some Miami fans want to see that from him on a night to night basis, especially on nights they need it. Like Jimmy Butler was out in a recent game and Bam only took eight shots. So with Bam, there's a desire and a tease from him of what he can be when he's super aggressive. And my point in that blurb in the power rankings is you got to give a time here. I mean, he is still a superb defender who can switch across positions, who is still, you know, playmaking for your team.

He's averaging nearly 20 points. Like, I guess sometimes it can take. time for these guys to get into that point where they're averaging 20 plus every night. And for him, it's still part of the growth. And I think we're witnessing growth from Bam and it's trending upward still. So I, even if it's frustrating with the championship hopes and desires from the franchise and the fan base, he's still trending up, man. He's still trending out.

It's a very common phrase slash sentiment expressed by big men throughout the years. you remember your exact the exact quote that you just said how many times did we talk about that was the embied quote after games i've got to be more aggressive i know i've got to be more aggressive i know i've got you know and and that it was the yokech quote too yeah it was the look i went through it covering uh palisaw and marcosol both big guys it's always big guys that are typically saying i've got to be more aggressive you know because they're not in many cases, they're not a, it's the way you're wired, right? Smaller guys, you have a lot more people to compete with when you are smaller in order to get where you're going to get. And many times

you end up having this chip on your shoulder or this level of tenacity that big guys don't have. Hell, there's a lot of big guys that just play because they're big. They don't even love basketball. It's been a thing over the years, right? And all of those guys, obviously. obviously love basketball, but that whatever that killer instinct is harder to find in big guys. It just is, you know, for sure. Because they don't have to be killers, you know, they don't have to be in order to get where they've been. Whereas smaller guys, in many cases, you've got to be killers in order to, you know,

differentiate yourself from so many other people that are your size that are trying to achieve the same goals that you are. Speaking, yeah, it's something that can develop over time too. Absolutely. We're seeing it would MB this year. Seeing it with the Okitsch too, both of them. Maybe one, two in the MVP race. Right.

All right, I want to get to some of these names that you have mentioned because the next thing that we are really going to spend a lot of time on in the coming weeks is the trade deadline and who's going to get moved and who's not going to get moved. I'm going to go through these names one by one. one of them that you mentioned that stood out to me is the Clippers desire to get Kyle Lowry, if they could. That would clearly be a great fit. It would reunite him with Kauai Leonard. There are other teams that, you know, have been connected with Lowry over the course of the past couple of months. The big question is, is Toronto, you know, going to move Kyle Lowry?

Is this going, are they going to move into the friends? Fred Van Vleet, Norm Powell, O.G. Nandobi, Pascal Seacum, era where there's like this transition to whatever the new look raptors are going to be, especially after the other veterans left in the offseason, both at Baca and Mark Gassau. Do you think, what is chances, Kyle Lowry is a raptor, you know, late March, in your opinion? probably pretty good you think so yeah probably pretty good I mean for a number of reasons he's Kyle Lari

yep he's been with the franchise for a long time and the Raptors have still have a good team even if they don't have championship aspirations quite as much secondly he's a tough contract the deal making around

30 million dollars there's not a lot of teams that need a point guard so you have those factors at play there and Kyle Lurie himself he posted on Instagram today the lies people tell on media are amazing

don't put things out when they ain't come from me. And he put that on his Instagram story, responding to all the hoopla and all the noise the past couple weeks about, you know, whether he'll get traded or not. Right. And so for Lowry, for the team, for the fact there might be other interests,

there's a lot of factors working against a Lowry trade. That doesn't change the fact that there's some existing interest from other teams, like the Sixers or the Clippers and whoever else might want a point guard. I'm not sure if a deal will end up getting made, Chris.

Because he could really move the needle, Kev. He big time. You know what I mean? For any of those teams, for any of those teams that you imagine, whether it's a heat or it's Philly or it's the clippers or whoever, like a contender adding Kyle Lowry, that moves you into a different tier. It just does because Kyle Lowry is still a big time player, you know, and you want that kind of guy.

You know, Indyar Foxo when it comes playoff time with what we saw. I mean, he helped win the Raptors that championship with his performance on the road where he was, you know, I mean, he was the best player on the floor, on a floor that included, you know, Steph Curry. So this guy is, you know, this guy could really, he could change the team's fortunes and their ceiling. Oh, big time, man. I mean, he's a winner. Kyle Larry is a winner. And that's why for sort of like the inverse here, like with you seeing Marcosol leave to Toronto to go win his first championship,

if Lowry were to be traded, it would be to a contending team. And hopefully for Raptors fans, it would be fun and, you know, to see him go win his second championship, whether it's with Philly or whether it's with L.A. or whoever it might be because he can still contribute at that level.

But we'll see what happens though. Well, and we learned on the Demar thing. We'll see. Massa's going to do what's best for that franchise. You know what I mean? And so it just depends on the return. You know, and if you get a couple teams bidding against each other, who knows, you may

end up getting a lot more in return for Lowry because a team looks at it and say, if we get Kyle Lowry, we can win the title. If somebody feels like that, then that's when all bets are off. People are willing to give up much more than you would think they're willing to give up if they feel like we're going to go all in and win and we think we can win the title if we get this guy. So if future assets be damned, we think we can win the title. And then you got to obviously, if you give up a lot, you got to go do it.

But, you know, I could see that happening. Yeah, we'll see what happens there. It's unclear if he'll get dealt. But undoubtedly there's interest, which the reason I brought him up first is because he's the biggest name of the guys that you mentioned. But you do mention some others. in the mix. And one of those is Victor Oladipo and interest from the Golden State Warriors in Victor Oladipo. He has not been good for Houston, you know, since he went there. He is on the cusp of, you know, it's going to be contract time for him.

Sooner than later, he didn't re-up with Houston. And so you know he's not for long there. So you imagined he is one that will for sure be moved. I was surprised that that's what the Warriors would want to augment their team with. That that's what they, you know what I mean? Like just with the whole fit with Curry and Ubrey and Wiggins and kind of what they've got already. I was a little surprised that they liked Oladipo so much in that mix. You can Venmo me the money owed at Kevin O'Connor NBA, Chris, for Andrew Wiggins. still being on to go

and say Warriors after one year. He made it to the weekend. It was supposed to be the trade deadline. It's not fair. Like I said, we can move the date. We can move the date. We said we could move the date if we double or nothing. That's what you said in the last pond.

That's not right. This whole season got screwed up. And Clay Thompson got hurt. Ruined my Wiggins bet. Just ruined it. There's no way that dude still on the Warriors of, Clay Thompson's there. And why would they want Oladipo?

They just want him for the rest of this year. They got Clay Thompson coming back, right? Well, maybe you can convince him to stay. Yeah, but then you've got Curry, Clay Thompson, and Oladipo? But look, here's the thing, Chris. I even said this in the report. Interested Victor Oladipo, to me, when I hear that, when I talk to people around the league, and I hear that, I hear that, I think, okay, so Victor Oladipo, clearly they're thinking

about other playmakers, finding other guys who can handle the ball on their team, because other wings, because they don't have a lot of wing depth, they don't have a lot of guard depth. And with Clay Thompson comes back, you don't know what you're going to get. It's just the reality of the situation. You don't know what version of Clay Thompson you're going to get, especially on the defensive end of the court. He's going to be able to shoot no matter what. He can shoot sitting down. He can shoot, you know, blindfolded. It doesn't matter. But the defensive aspect you don't know about, and that's where Victor Lidipo, I look at him and it's like, oh, they're missing that

Igwadala Livingston type, that guy who handles the ball and facilitates for the star scores. Maybe Ola Dippo could fit in that role. So maybe they don't get Victor O'Odipo. They probably won't get them. But the fact they're thinking about that shows the line of logic that the Golden State Front Office is following here with what the team needs to reload when Clay returns next season. And Ola Depot types make a lot of

sense to me, whether it's him or whether it's somebody else, because that's what's missing from that team is wing depth and another ball handling presence who can do the Livingston, Iguodala type of thing. And Oladipo makes sense there. Yeah, the only reason I say it doesn't make sense is because we know what he just turned down from Houston. I mean, you can't pay Curry Thompson, Draymond, and what he obviously wants. He didn't turn down that contract from Houston because he thought he was going to get less, you know, by hitting the market. And so he fancies himself as a guy that's going to get another huge contract, I think. And Golden State can't give him another huge contract.

Well, how about this, Chris? I've not heard a single thing about Wiggins strades, not a peep from anybody. But theoretically, what if you gave up Wiggins? You need this to happen before. You needed the clock to run out. You needed the clock to run out bad. But theoretically, Chris. Oh, no, that's B.

Well, that's the other way to look at it. I may hold off on that Venmo because if he's going from the trade deadline, we're going to have to have the listeners vote on. Should it be the deadline or the date? Because I said he wouldn't make it the next year. That is hilarious. I didn't know the season was going to start late. How many years he got left on his contract?

I think three. Oh, wow. Yeah, I'd do that. I know you would, Chris. I'd do that. Save your money. That would be hilarious. Wiggins becomes a free agent in 2023.

So two more seasons. Yeah, so you got that kind of money on the books anyway. Yeah. Right. You would have to move off of Wiggins if you wanted to keep all the depot going forward. And then you get to some lesser names that are in there. Evan Fornier was the name that you mentioned. And Terrence Ross, that's two Orlando guys.

If the idea is that it's going to be too big of a cost, for anybody to throw together something that would entice Orlando to move Vucevic. But these ancillary players like a Ross, like a Fornier, that could be in the rotation for good team.

Kim Birch. Kim Birch, too. Another veteran who's going to be a free agent and in a couple months that's received some interest, but like, it's kind of funny. Orlando has not been good, but they have a lot of players that teams want. Yeah, I thought they were going to do something

in the offseason. You know, before, the season started. I really did. Because it felt like they had these they had a bunch of young guys. Nothing really fit perfectly, but then you decide which ones are we committing to. They obviously

committed to Gordon and that has not, you know, he hasn't lived up to the billing. Aaron Gordon hasn't. I still like Aaron Gordon a lot. Yeah, I know. But that has not worked out like you wanted it to if you're

Orlando. Jonathan Isaac's hurt. Right. Mo Baba doesn't play. And then you've got Vucevich, who's your best player who plays center, which is the same as Bamba and this other guy who you've had that's been good in Kem Birch. You drafted, you know,

Cole Anthony. And you got some of the- Fultz and he got hurt. Yeah. And he got hurt. And so it's all kind of, you know, they do have players.

And obviously with the veteran guys, you could see Evan Fournier could play in a rotation on a good team. Same with Terrence Ross. Yeah. And so you think there is, You think those are the two most likely if they're going to move somebody? And those guys are both on, you know, fine contracts that aren't long out. I mean, I would say like a guy that's easiest to deal is Ken Birch.

So he'd be most likely, even though he wasn't mentioned in the story. But Terrence Ross and Evan Fornier, as you just said, are easier to deal. And they can fit into a lot of different teams with their scoring ability, kind of a spark plug role. That could be nice on a contender or nice on any team for that matter. It's nice in Orlando. Those guys aren't bad players. Well, it was interesting for you to mention, you know, for one of those guys, the Hornets, because that means they're a buyer.

And you had mentioned this in the past that, like, Charlotte might be a team that tries to get even better as they head down this stretch run. That, like, they look at this now and they're, you know, where can we get in this playoff seating? But I was fascinated by that because they got such a, they got a gang of shooting guards there. I got a lot of guys, and Monk's been really good, who you mentioned. So why would, why would they want another shooting guard in Charlotte just because of the injuries? Because guys have gotten banged up. I mean, not having Devante Graham does hurt their guard rotation. Does it hurt, though?

Yeah. I mean, when you have Malik Monk. I mean, it's open up the door for Malik Monk. Yeah, when you have Malik Monk playing at the level that he is, that guy is so fun to watch, Chris, isn't he? I love Malik Monk. Yes. He's been fantastic this year. He's also in a contract year.

So watch out. You never know. The Tatum ISO numbers that you mentioned, what do you make of this? And if you can't just explain to the listeners, you had this note about how he was, I mean, he was one of the better ISO scorers in the entire NBA last year. And that number is down significantly this year. So last season he ranked in the 76th percentile in isolation scoring efficiency. This season, he's down to 28th.

And one of the reasons why is because Tatum's shooting off the dribble has fallen. This season, he's down to 43% on pull-up 2s compared to 47% last year. And he's down to 33% on pull-up 3s compared to 44% last season. So he was dominant, you know, shooting off the dribble last season. This year those numbers have fallen in. This isn't a knock on Tatum. It's not a concern. If anything, I look at it as a reason to say,

that as good as he has still been as an all-star who got COVID-19 positive during the season and who himself says that he still deals with some of the after effects with, you know, feeling lethargic, feeling some fatigue. He is still producing at an all-star level with more room to reach last season's level of performance. It's not a knock on him as much as to say, this guy could be even better than he already has been the season with everything that's happened. So with Teatom, you know, obviously you want to see him start hitting some of those shots, but as I show with one of the videos in there, the, you know, any Celtics or Raptors fan who is watching this game, he hit this crazy shot towards the end of Boston's win over Toronto right before

the break where like he's just elevated off balance, hand in his face and drained a shot from Midrangers. Just a nasty, classic looking, you know, ISO score, early 2000 style shot. It was filthy. And so that guy is still in there. and his numbers could even be better in the second half as he, you know, hopefully gains back all of his wind after dealing with COVID-19. Other things I had written down from reading through your 900,000 word article.

Who is Elise Johnson? Oh, really? Interesting. I'm surprised you brought him up. Because I'd never heard his name. Yeah, with the G-League bubble happening. There's a lot of eyeballs on what's happening there with teams thinking about who were some players to target on two-way contracts or even a full NBA contract. And one of the names brought up to me is Elise Johnson, who's a six-foot-seven wing forward

on the Raptors 905, Toronto's G-League team. And he's just been really freaking good on both ends of the court for that team. He's somebody who can handle the ball a little bit for you. You don't want to make decisions with the ball, but he can go coast to coast for you. He just plays so hard on defense. You can use them maybe in a small ball, big role. or he can use him defending wings with the versatility he has. So, you know, the shooting numbers, you want to see him shoot high 30s percent.

But he checks a lot of the boxes for what teams want in a role-playing wing off the bench. And so that name was brought up to me on multiple occasions as somebody to watch to get a two-way deal or to get an opportunity in the NBA once the GILIC season is up. Yeah. So one got to watch. I went and looked him up after, after. reading about him. And as you mentioned,

he was the 50th pick once upon a time and now he was trying to fight his way into the league. And all these teams, you know, when you got that many

teams that are interested in you, clearly you're going to get a gig. I was like, where did he, like, I've never even heard

that name. Where did he go to college? His first college? Now, this is rare, Kevin. If I've never heard of the college,

that's when it's a different level. Frank Phillips. It is not a person. That is a college. And that's where he went for two years. Frank Phillips. And then he went to Missouri State after that,

which is not Division I don't believe. Isn't that Division I? I think it is. No, I guess they are Division I. Now they used to be Division II, I recall. The Missouri State Bears. and Frank Phillips is a community college in Borgor, Texas.

Apparently, according to Wikipedia, named after Frank Phillips, born in 1873. Frank Phillips Juke. How about that? So anyways, yeah, Elise Johnson. You want to talk about you can have any kind of path? Some oil guy. To get to the NBA. Frank Phillips College to Missouri State to now.

Now making a name for himself in the G-League bubble, and you got four or five NBA teams that might watch you. Other things that I wrote down, I had no idea that they were calling Kenrick Williams, Kenny Hustle. But we talked about a couple of weeks ago with nicknames. I know that this guy is not a household name. Oklahoma City is not on national TV by any means.

Kenny Hustle is an amazing. a nickname. It's a good nickname. That is a great nickname. Kenny Hustle. And that's what they're calling Kendrick Williams. Well, he got named that at TCU. So in college, he earned the nickname. Kenny Hustle. I'm not, I'm not even sure if it's really stuck in O.K. See, I hope it has. It's a good nickname. Kenny Hustle's perfect. And it's perfect for him. Amazing. He always hustles, man. Yes. It works. Kenny Hustle. If your name is Kenny Hustle, then all of a sudden, people start paying attention to you in a different way, right? Kendrick Williams is just a guy that people, they forget.

They're like, who is that? If you say that's Kenny Hustle, now you're somebody. You know what I mean? I think if I'm an Oklahoma City fan, you make that thing stick. You start having these viral moments. Look, it even worked with, what's his name? The white guy from Michigan. Oh, what was his name?

I'm forgetting. You know, the guy that Stouskas, what they call him. They called him, but he had that, he had the nickname. Soss Castillo. Sauce Castillo. I mean, he didn't do anything, but he was sauce Castillo. And so you had an awareness of him that you would not normally have because anytime he did something, it was like, oh, sauce Castillo. And so you could, that could be a thing. And, you know, I saw people call it Luke wins the torture chamber. I think that's what they should do.

If you're an Oklahoma City fan, just start leaning into this. You can have the torture chamber. You could have Kenny Hustle. Those guys being on your wings. I loved this. I think Kenny Hustle is such a good name. That's a name to change your last name to legally.

Kenny Hustle. It's just such a good name. It really is. I loved that one. It's sort of the, like, it's Kenny Powers. Yes. Right.

Eastbound and down. Kenny Powers, Kenny Hustle. It's got the same vibe. Kenny Hustle. I love that one. Other notes I had as we wrap up, Otto Porter could get bought out.

I wrote that down from the Bulls section. Do you think that's a real possibility? It's unclear what's going to happen with Chicago. You know, in that same section I had that I've heard Arturis, their general manager, is telling teams that Thaddey's young will not be dealt.

That could be a leverage play. Oh, no. I think that's real. And the reason I think so is because of, of did you see all that stuff that came out when Levine made the All-Star game? He was the one on the Zoom. You know what I mean? Yeah. He's important to that team.

Yeah. And that he had had this profound effect on Levine. And in fact, Thaddeus Young was the one saying, you know, basically kind of the, it didn't happen for me. But here's what we're doing. We're making you an All-Star. And you cannot, that's a lifeline for Levine. And that's your best player. and that's a guy that just made an all-star team.

If nothing else, that's why you can't move Thad Young. Sure. You know, you and I have talked so much over the years about the idea of blowing it up and all that. Chicago isn't in a position where they need to necessarily blow anything up. No. They have an All-Star and Zach Levine, and Thad Young has been critical for creating a structure that is good for development of young players. And they have a lot of young players on that team.

And Thad Young is kind of that glue that keeps it together. And trading him could create a situation where there's kind of, you know, maybe chaos without structure. And I think for Chicago, there's a, I don't think it's just leverage either. I think this is Chicago being real here that they would keep him unless the offer is overwhelming, which, by the way, is the place a lot of teams are in right now. There's so many teams because of the playing tournament that feel like they're in it, that don't feel like they need to trade out, that feel like they have something to fight for and try to push for. And Chicago is one of those teams.

They're right there with a playing torn on the spot right now. They're not a bad team. In fact, they've been pretty good the last couple weeks. And if you have great veterans that are not resentful veterans, but are instead trying to teach. They're trying to teach and prop up your young players. Don't remove them from the situation unless you have to.

Unless it's like a contract thing. Yeah. Unless the offer is overwhelming, where it's like, you can't help it, that's bad, like we got to make the deal. That's right. You're that good.

That's how much they want you. Yes. Other than that, like, you just have so much value that doesn't show up in box scores to that team. And just that their best player,

Levine, that that was the guy on the Zoom when he made the All-Star team. And he's like kind of, you know, helped facilitate this leap that Levine has taken. You can't. You can't extract it from that situation.

if that guy has more value than a player that's even better than him. I'm glad we're having this conversation because, you know, while writing that section, it just had me thinking so much about how the conversations we have are viewed through the lens of the teams that have championship aspirations. We talk about what Thad Young could offer a contender. Right. But we so often don't talk about, well, what about what does Thad Young offer a young team that's growing?

And he offers a heck of a lot to the Chicago Bulls. So much to that team. off the court, on the court with the way he plays. He's somebody that you want to have. I'll give you a great example of this, Kev. A great example. Because you know I experienced it firsthand. And that was Jay Crowder.

That was Morant and those young guys guys for the, him and Solomon Hill for the Grizzlies. And Crowder did go and help a team go to the NBA finals. And now he's back in Phoenix and helping young guys again. And winning. It's getting both. And winning. But those are the kind of veterans that have a profound impact on because what happens is when you start getting your ass kicked,

they are the guy in the locker room that can say, I've been here before, I've been on good teams, I've been on bad teams, just stay the course. This is going to turn around because, like, whatever they started last year, like 6 and 16 or some crap like that, you have to have guys like Crowder saying, everything's going to be fine, you're going to learn your way, here's how to do this, here's how to do that, here's how do you conduct yourself, here's how you work, all this kind of stuff.

And like, there's no, there's no dollar figure you can put on that. That, those are, those are things that stay with guys for a lifetime. If they're willing to help young players. And I like seeing that young fall into that role, right,

for sure, because that can be so helpful to the young players. And it has been, obviously, Last guy I do want to mention, which is, all right, so I was listening to Simmons and Rosillo talking. And Simmons started talking up Harrison Barnes and the Celtics. And I was like, okay, what's this all about? Usually Bill has, like, he knows something because why, that is just such a weird connection to make, right?

Like, why would you just throw out randomly Harrison Barnes and the Celtics as something that, bite in Chris, I know you're reading Celtics subredits, Celtics forums, but Celtics fans have been on Harrison Barnes

for quite some time now. Really? Yeah, as a target. He is like the most popular trade target for Celtics fans to use their trade exception with the most popular one.

Just because he's on a rat team and you think you could get him? Yeah, because he's on a rat team. Okay. And, you know, and because he fits into the traded player exception

because he does fill a need with this, you know, the versatility on defense and everything else Harrison Barnes brings to good teams. So he does make sense for the Celtics, even though he wouldn't be at the top of my list necessarily. He would not. No.

I mean, he's fine. Harrison's Barnes is fine. He's a fine player. He's a fine player. Yeah. But I think he's a good fit there. Yeah, he's a good fit, but there's better fits for what they need moving forward. And listen, man, like Boston this season, do you feel like Harrison Barnes and?

puts them over the top. I mean, let's be serious here, Chris. Does Harrison Barnes put the Boston Celtics over the top? No. They need a big guy. They need a number of things. They need time. Well,

they need somebody that they can throw at Janus. They need somebody that can throw at MB. They need somebody that can throw it, bam. They need that. I know Tykes and Tristan Thompson, what a time lord. They need somebody better than those guys.

Time Lord. The best teams in that conference, you're going to have somebody that can match up with those monsters. And I don't like to match up with any of the guys they got, you know, on their roster right now. And so I'd try to find somebody big if I'm dead. You know, hopefully they get Marcus Smart back, you know, because he's going to be on the court come playoff time. So what?

You're playing Jay. You're playing Jalen, Tatum, Harrison Barnes, and Smart on the same court at playoff time? Like, I don't, you know Smart gets a lot of minutes when it comes the big leverage game. So I don't know. I try to find somebody big because that's what you got to really trifle with when you're, if you're talking about, you know, getting to the East Finals and hopefully get into an NBA finals, they need a big guy. That's my opinion.

Yeah, I mean, with Boston, Time Lord maybe come closer to playoff time, Brad Stevens has said recently that they're trying to manage his minutes. so he peaks, you know, around the postseason. So maybe a time lord becomes a 25 minute per game guy in the playoffs. Who knows? We'll see. He's been pretty good, man. Like Robert Williams is a good player playing a limited role as a young guy.

He sells some flaws, but he can run for you. He's a way better passer than he gets credit for. He's effective, altering shots around the rim. There's some, you know, issues with offball defense at times. But I feel like he can give more. And with this Celtics team, Tatum is. 22. Brown is 24. They were two of the youngest all-stars in a game filled with some potential legendary players who are still in their primes. Two of the youngest guys in that team along with

Luca and Zion and others, these guys still aren't in their prime. And with Boston, they've been to three of the last four conference finals, but with them, I still have a hard time looking at this team. And I know so much of the discourse around Boston is they're not making a move. They're not making a move. They got to do something now. They're going to take advantage of Tatum and Brown. Well, Tatum and Brown are still young guys. I mean, I don't know if this is the right move of Harrison Barnes.

They have until November to use that. And we'll see what opportunities become available. But I'm not convinced they should use that traded player exception before the deadline when better fits, better options could pop up during the off seasons. I know it's a hard thing to say for a

team that's right there. They've been in the conference finals, but I don't think he's the guy, Chris. All right. Well, last thing that we will touch on, the last name that we'll touch on, I was talking about big guys and that last one, we got a resolution on the Blake Griffin thing. The Drummond thing is still hanging out there. Does somebody trade for Drummond?

Or do you think we get to a point where Drummond is choosing his team? Beats me, man. Beats me. We'll see what happens there. There's still interest from some teams for trades. Toronto, that's not going to go away. There's the Chicago stuff that was floated out there last. week.

Should Boston try to get him? I don't think so. No. No. But I wouldn't trade for Andre Drummond. I'm not a big fan personally. You don't like Barnes either, though. No, I mean, for any team with Drummond, I wouldn't want him on 20 plus million dollars.

We'll see what type of contract he signs the soft season. But there is a chance he gets bought out. It's a smaller chance than him getting traded. You need him to trade for Moamba. That's what you. Exactly. That'd be a huge win. And then they could- be a huge win for any team. They could reincarnate

Elijah Wanda and Samson and throw out Mo Bamba and Taco Fall. Who could- Who could deal with that? Nobody. Can you imagine a Taco Fall Mo-Bamba front-court? They wouldn't have a game. No one would ever

score. You may not score, but they won't even. You can win two to nothing. All right. Kevin, this is going to be fun. got through the All-Star break, and now we've got the rest of the season ahead of us. Hopefully, everybody can stay COVID-free. And as fans start to get into arenas, we are able to close out the season.

Thank you to producer Sasha as always, and we will talk to you on Friday.