The Mismatch - What Does the James Harden Trade Say About How the NBA Has Changed?

Episode Date: January 15, 2021

Chris and Kevin discuss the details of the intricate and wide-reaching James Harden trade on Wednesday (0:40). Then they get into a conversation about what the nature of Harden’s trade request says about the changes that have occurred across the NBA and NBA coverage, including player empowerment, the media boom, and shifts in fandom (12:30). They cap it all off with a conversation about the specific on-court and off-court chemistry concerns for the Nets with their new star-studded roster (40:30). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, this is Kevin O'Connor on today's episode of The Mismatch. Chris Vernon and I went deep into the James Harden Trade. Really enjoyed this conversation and hope you do too. That's coming up next. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. Joadimmy's every Friday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k. Kevin O'Bomber, A.K.K.K.O.combeau.

Kevin O'Compikon, Conflict. Kevin O'Camperman. Kevin O'Candand. Kevin O'Kindness. Kevin O. Verno. How you doing? Big trade.

Been a big week. Now, you had to comment on it on the fly on Wednesday. I tuned in. You guys went live. I saw the Twitter alert come by that you guys were talking about the trade live. Obviously, I wanted to be able to click right on it and hear somebody talking about it at that time. It's very difficult to digest everything that takes place all so quickly. Oh, yeah.

And you're attempting to while talking about it, but we've all just learned about this. But now that you have had, you know, we both had 48 hours to kind of digest it all and think about the outcomes of what was a massive blockbuster deal, the James Hardin deal. I'll tell you my opinion first. Okay. I am let, I now after whatever, it's been, 48 hours or 36 hours, my initial reaction when I saw the deal, deal was, why the hell didn't you just take Ben Simmons? And 36 hours later, my reaction is still, why the hell did you not just take Ben Simmons? Like, I just don't, I don't understand. And I listened to what Bill had a podcast that came out. He kind of outlined how it sounds like it was Simmons and

Thibble was the deal. And to me, the asset that is Ben Simmons. is a much greater asset than any of those, quote, chances. Now, down the line, it could turn out. In 2027, there could be the next amazing player, and they have the number one pick by virtue of that. But a 24-year-old all-NBA caliber player, to me, even if you don't like the fit, you can flip that for all manner of players and picks, right?

If you say, okay, this isn't going to work for us. or he says this isn't going to work for us. That asset to me is the greatest asset that you were offered. And so if I'm moving a superstar, I'd want the best asset back. That's what I'm left thinking about. It's a tough thing to talk about for the exact reason. It's a mystery, you know, with these eight picks that they got, which is actually four unprotected first round draft picks and four pick swaps,

unprotected pick swaps that give the rockets the right to switch with Brooklyn. If Houston has the 22nd pick one year and Brooklyn has the fourth pick, Houston can swap that, no questions asked. So there's risk there for Brooklyn to give up those unprotected picks. And for Houston, this is a bet against Brooklyn in three to four years. You're hoping that at some point, Kyrie, Katie, and Hardin either split up or get old and then the team gets bad. That's what you're hoping for. And comparing that against Ben Simmons, a known commodity who, you know, like you said, an all NBA caliber talent, one of the league's

greatest defensive players so versatile with his ability to defend on the perimeter inside. He's fantastic. An open floor playmaker. So good. But we also know his deficiencies in the postseason. And for Houston, I think they're probably might rather take that bet with the eight picks. I mean, it's four and then four swaps with Victor Oladipo. And I get it. And I think I would lean the direction that they did because my understanding is that yes, Simmons Thibel seems like may have been the deal that Philly was offering. My understanding is that Houston wanted Simmons, Maxie, and two or three first round draft picks. And if you're Philly, I understand not giving that as well, because you have this great team right now with,

Embed playing at an MVP caliber level. Ben Simmons adapting. You know, there's still some fit issues in the half court, but he's getting better at screening. He's willingly screening. He's spotting up a little bit more often, even though he's, you know, not a threat out there. So for Darrell Morey and the Sixers, you kind of want to also see this through. So I get not given all that.

But for Houston, ultimately, I lean towards the side that they made the right decision here because those assets down the line, even if it's not a time, top five pick, even if it's like a number seven pick one year and then the next year, you don't know what the Nets are going to look like. That pick would have value and that could get you another good player down the line. So I would just want this. It's tough. Maybe, and I probably have a higher opinion of Ben Simmons, but I think you could build a team

around him. Well, here's the other factor. I think he's that good. There are rumblings across the league that Ben Simmons did not want to go to Houston. Interesting. So that's the other factor here to consider that, apparently, you know, again, who knows for sure? Like this stuff floats out there and it's hearsay,

but it's floated out there that Ben Simmons didn't want to go to Houston. And if that's the case, obviously you do have a known commodity, you have an all-star talent, a guy who can be an all-NBA player on a contract long term. You know, that deal's just kicking in. But if he doesn't want to be there, what happens in two years or three years?

Because you look at this Houston locker room right now, I wrote about this week on the ringer. I mean, John Wall, DeMarcus cousins, those two guys have not been the best leaders on their past teams. You have Victor Oladipo now in Houston who didn't want to be in Houston, but at least he's on an expiring contract and maybe you could flip them. I know for a fact, there will be and there could be teams soon that would love to have him on their roster for the rest of the season.

So for the Rockets, you have this weird mix right now and maybe with Ben Simmons, it wouldn't be the best thing to have him going into a situation. with a bunch of guys who are coming back from major injuries in cousins and wall. Yeah, but those guys are going to be gone. Those guys are going to be gone. In a couple years, but if at that point three years from now, then

Ben Simmons only has a year left on his contracts. And then at that point, you're really trying to rebuild quickly before he can become an unrestricted free agent. And then you might find yourself in a similar situation. And that's the downside of taking the known commodity in Simmons where

like I said, I think it could end up a mistake doing what they did. It could. This could be a mistake. Brooklyn could win three championships in a row. You know, Hardin and Kyrie and Katie could age gracefully. And it could be bad. But it could also be bad taking the known commodity and Ben Simmons, which is why I think the upside of these picks is so significant, unprotected picks from a team that just made a mistake.

It could. It could. Paging and Paul Pierce, history could repeat pretty quickly here if this doesn't work out for the Nets. It could repeat quickly. It could. And all I'm saying is, like, you laid out the whole what if it didn't work with Ben Simmons. To me, if it doesn't work with Ben Simmons, Kev, I could still flip that and get all manner of stuff back. I've got a big, yes, you can.

I mean, you wouldn't get what they got for Hardin. Oh, you almost got James Hardin. You almost got him. in a deal. So don't tell me that you can't get them. But it wasn't just Ben Simmons though. Like they wanted also Tyrese Maxie who's one of the, but he's the centerpiece. I know he is, but Tyrese maxi is also one of the most 10 impressive rookies so far this season. Like in a redraft today, Maxey's going higher than in the 20s. He just is. And then you would then they also wanted two first round draft picks or three on top of that. Obviously, and when you're when you're negotiating, you ask for more sometimes. But ultimately in the eyes of the

Rockets, clearly, this is how they valued him because of the risk they'd be taking on. I think that if you have Ben Simmons, you are going to be able to trade him for a lot more than any of the assets that you attained. So it doesn't work. I'm not so sure. And on the other hand, the big winner to me is Indiana. I mean, because we were talking, you told me a couple of weeks ago, El Oladipo has very little value. I agreed with you, right, until he plays himself back into Victor Oladipo. I mean, I would have never a guess that they could move off of

Oladipo and get a player of the caliber of Levert back. It's really nice win for that. That was a sneaky, really good move. Especially when you've got Oladipo, you know, the report toward that he was going around saying, hey, can I run with y'all? And so everybody was out on that situation. To be able to know that

you're in a position where you want to move a guy, a guy doesn't want to be where he is. And you're able to net a player of Lavert's talent, I think is, I think that's a really good move. And it was on the periphery, but something that I did not think that they would get that good of return if they had to move off of Oladipo. It's funny because with Oladipo, yeah, you're right. I think start of the season, every team in the league wants to see how he looks physically.

And he looks better. He's still not prime Oladipo that year he had an All-Star season, went to a game seven, in round one against LeBron and the Cavs. He's not quite that Ola Depot yet, especially on the defensive end. He's had a lot of lazy possessions, some poor closeouts. The effort hasn't been there on defense as much

as you would hope for and need from him. So for Indiana, they're getting Lavert, who is more years on his contract, a younger player, and maybe a better chemistry fit there, too, considering everything that has happened with Ola Divo and the fact that he does desire to leave.

He wants to go to Miami. The question is, is does Miami want him? You know, from my understanding, it's like Miami, you know, the guy they want is Bradley Beal. So it's like if Beal becomes available, you know, or Beal is, I should say, if Beal isn't available, then maybe Miami would turn their attention to Victor Oladipo. But for him now in Houston, this has to be ahead of his unrestricted free agency this off season. He's got to tear it up, man. Like I want to see Ola Depot bring it on defense like he has in the past. He has to do that. And for him.

Indiana, though, they're getting a guy in Lavert who's a really good player, man. Their team is tough already. We've talked about them a bunch the last couple weeks. To me, it feels like even though in a vacuum, Olinibo is a better player than Lavert, in terms of how their roster is built and everything we know about the situation there, this feels like an upgrade, doesn't it, for not just the season, but the next couple. I mean, it, we'll see the way it all plays out. We'll see, I mean, I really, I don't know.

It's close. close, but ultimately, I think in turn, it's just about like, if you're just talking about the Lavert Ola Depot swap out, I mean, yes, because the one guy doesn't it wasn't going to be whatever the apex is

with Ola Depot, that wasn't going to be able to be reached. And so now one of those two players also hasn't suffered a serious, you know, ruptured quad tendon and his knee. I mean, that injury Ola Depot suffered is major. Well, it's not like

Everd has been the beacon of health. And he has not. And that's why Levert wasn't a lottery pick in his draft year because of the amount of concerns about his potential feet injuries. And he has had some throughout its career. So not the healthiest guy either. But I get it for Indiana. I really do.

All right. So with all of this that has happened over the course of the last 36 hours, I have thought a lot about the league and how much the league. has changed. We knew that James Hardin was going to get moved after this press conference the other night where he said, I've given all I can, we're just not good enough. It's something that I don't think can be fixed. And then you knew that it was, you know, we're now to trade time. And of course, he did get traded. And then we have been talking about what Brooklyn's going to look like, what Indiana's going to look like, what Houston's going to look like going forward.

But I was most struck with the whole idea of James Hardin being traded and being traded to a team that had Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving on it. For so many years, Kev, I listened to general managers. In fact, you were with me a few years ago when we were at a ringer deal in Vegas where Darryl Morey was part of it. And at one point, the Chris Paul thing came up. And Darrell said, you know, the hardest thing to do in the NBA is to get a star. Yeah. Right. And this has been something for years and years and years as covering the NBA.

I have heard all manner of general managers and executives say the hardest thing to do in the NBA is to get a star. Okay. And so now we have seen another star being moved. And so I went back and I looked. And so here is my thesis. All right, Kevin? The thesis. Yes.

The hardest thing to do is to get a star has been something that has been repeated for years and years and years by executives and general managers. And yet that has increasingly become untrue. Three years ago, almost to the day, were a few weeks. off. The NBA All-Star game in 2018. Team LeBron, okay? It was one of the teams. It was Team LeBron versus Team Steff. That's the way they did it that year. Team LeBron had the following players on their team. LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, Kyrie Irving, Anthony Davis. That is the starting lineup of Team LeBron. Every one of those players is wearing a different uniform. Team LeBron also had Paul George, Andre Drummond, Victor Oladipo, and Kemba Walker.

Every single one of those players is wearing a different uniform. And that is not to mention guys like Chris Tavs Porzengis, who was wearing a Nick's jersey at the time, John Wall, Jimmy Butler, DeMarcus cousins, and you also have Chris Paul and Kauai Leonard. Also, DeMar de Rosen was playing for Toronto at the time. Kemba Walker for Charlotte. different team. No, and I named him. There's so many names. I missed him. Okay.

So we are three years removed from almost the whole damn roster being on a different team. I can no longer believe that the hardest thing to do in the NBA is to acquire a star and there's a lot

of factors that have gone into this and I'll get to those. The hardest thing to do in the NBA is no longer acquiring a star. The hardest thing to do in the NBA is keeping your star content. That's the hardest thing.

That is my thesis now. That is the acquisition of the star is not what it used to be. I just told you three years ago, that's every great player in the league. Like, I mean, who do you want me to name? LeBron, Durant, Westbrook, Irving, Davis, George Drummond,

Oledipo, Kemble Walker, James Hardin, like the only ones that are still on their same team are Janice, Joelle Embed, Curry Thompson, Kyle Lowry, Damien Lillard, Tremont. Even Al Horford, who was on that

all in that All-Star game, is on a different team now. Even the coaches. Even the coaches. Houston, Dwayne Casey, Toronto. They're both gone. So, and, and most of, these, you can say

they were unhappy with their situation or they wanted the grass is greener somewhere else, right? And sometimes it's like the hardened situation. Sometimes it's like the Kempa situation. Sometimes it's like the Paul George situation. Sometimes it's like

the Victorola Depot situation, right? But when you have the majority of what were the top 10 players in the, all on different teams within three years time? Three years, Kevin.

We're not talking about five years ago, three years ago. And now we, so how do you keep your guys happy? And are we to the point now where, as I said, it is more difficult than ever. That is the hard part. And we will see as time goes on, right? We have a whole slew of young players. What will happen? And who knows, right?

Jason Tatum, Luca Donchich, Nicola Yokic, Jalen Brown, Ben Simmons, who almost got moved this week, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Zion, John Morant, Deeron, Deere and Fox, we'll see how long. You know, most, and in fairness, a lot of the guys that I mentioned played out their first eight years with the team that drafted them. But how can I believe that the hardest thing to get in the NBA is a star. when all of them have changed jerseys within the last three years. I think, I think both can be true. And here's why, because it can be the hardest thing to acquire a star just by the sheer numbers.

There's like 20 to 25, maybe only 10 to 15 guys that, and that apply for star status. That's like 5% of the entire league. So it's just a sheer numbers thing to Daryl Morey's point. However, I do think your point is even more true that it, that the heart, the true hardest thing is keeping a star happy because the amount of turnover that we have in today's league. And it wasn't always this way. Like the player empowerment error has changed things the last 10 plus years. Shorter contracts. You have shorter contracts as well.

A lot, you know, plays into that. Who knows, there could be, you know, societal pressures too for that matter. as well. The rings culture and all that, too. This is true, Kevin. No, this is 100% true. Okay, so 15 years ago, before there's Twitter, before there's Instagram, before there's social media. Well, we had MySpace. That's it. Only MySpace.

Okay. And people weren't talking about sports on MySpace. They were just posting songs and being goofing. Yeah. Ordering your top friends and all that. Yes. You'd be in my top group, Chris. Thank you, Kevin. 15 years ago, though, there was like, you know, there was the sports columnist in town that most of the fans that, like, really loved the team, they didn't like him anyway. And, you know, they're super fans and they don't want to hear anything negative. And so maybe the columnist would rip somebody.

Maybe somebody on sports radio would rip somebody. All local based. Yeah, and you can very easily just tune that out. There's all kinds of guys that got ripped 15 years ago that never even knew they got. ripped and couldn't care less that they got ripped, right? Nowadays, if you write something about somebody or say something about somebody, somebody is going to, even if you have tuned out, somebody's going to let you know, oh my God, what's up with this guy? Why is this guy killing you today or whatever, right? You have an awareness of this. And the other thing is,

anybody can, you know, comment on your Instagram or comment on your Twitter or whatever it may be. and you're constantly inundated, and you end up feeling more isolated, especially the younger guys, but like, you're constantly taking criticism. And that is not true 15 years ago. You weren't constantly taking criticism. You just weren't. Like, how would you even know that there were people out there that felt that way about you, right? There was the one guy that wrote about it in the paper, and then there was sports radio

and callers, but players don't typically drive into the arena listening to sports radio. Very rarely are you going to find a player that is very engaged in what is going on on sports radio. No doubt about it. People are saying about you, but they are all engaged on all of these social media platforms. You know what I mean? Last year, and this is when it became most clear, Kev. There is a clip. You could probably find it.

Where last year, a guy tweeted John Morant and said something to the effect of he ain't built for it. He just doesn't have the heart, whatever. And John Moran went out there the next night and killed everybody and went on the

post game thing and called the guy by name. This is a random guy that lives in the suburbs of Memphis, Tennessee. who fired off a tweet because he was mad about a loss. And he said, I want to thank that guy. Shout out to you.

I didn't see that. Wow. Yeah, you could find it. Oh, yeah. Okay, I just Googled it. I read your tweet. March 1st last year. Okay.

And what did the guy say in the tweet? The guy said something in the tweet. And Morant said, thank you to so and so. And he called some random guy, just a dude. But the idea was it let you know. The fan tweeted, I don't want to say his name in case this brings him undue attention, but he said, I liked it when Jha had that fire in his eye. He doesn't look like he wants it more than others. And then Jha came out the following game and said, I'm thankful for this guy who tweeted and said, I don't have that fire in my eye no more. That game right there was for him. I mean, it's sort of like how you would never think they would care. Yeah. But, but they, but they do. It's like Damien Miller just just the other day made the comment about a Blazer. writer who

merely only suggested are Westbrook and Beal a better backhorth than McCollum and Lillard. It was like in response and it full of a conversation and when he asked a question or in a post game media availability

Damian Lillard you know said something about that. It's like oh, best backhord, huh? Yeah. So listen to Ken, there's no shows like you, you and me 15 years ago.

There's that even if you, like there was no debate shows. First take wasn't created until 07. That was the error on ESPN of cold pizza. Remember cold pizza? I used to watch that in the morning, but it wasn't like the way it is. The first take now, first time the only time you ever saw people like back then really like debating and maybe even ripping somebody, especially for any kind of comments they made or anything else, was Sunday morning at 8 o'clock they had, you know, four or five old sports writers from the East Coast do the sports reporters. Oh yeah. And they

would bandy about, you know, Dick Shapp and his crew and Mike Lupica and Bill Rodin and whoever else would be on there, Bob Ryan, and they would talk about the topics of the week and they would give, and these columnists would give their opinion on things. Other than that. And if you didn't watch that, it's not like everybody was talking about it. It's not like if you went to an arena, everybody was like, oh, did you hear what Mike Lupica said on the sports reporter? Like, nobody gave a crap.

I mean, even PTI and around the horn. in shows like that or are like short, you know, quick hit conversations usually, rather than, you know, a 10, 15 segment like you might see on first take where they go long on it or like a podcast where we can go for 25 minutes on any number of topics and get deep into it. And the fans have all the awareness. Yes. They know everything. They know everything.

And they care about everything. You're right? And so, like, you wouldn't really be in depth with anything. except on a local level otherwise. And so I do think that that is, you brought that up just kind of in passing. I think that is a massive factor with all of this, that there is a pressure to win,

like you say, with the rings culture. There is a pressure to win, but also this constant search to be content. Think about those three guys that are going to be together in Brooklyn, Kev. Katie left for a 73-1 team that just beat his team down 3-1 and the Western Commerce finals,

all because of the desire to win a championship. Kyrie Irving was playing with Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown. Kyrie Irving, before that, as reported by Brian Winhorse, as his team was going to the NBA finals, was not speaking to his teammates for the last month of this season. On a team that's in the finals. Like, what do you want?

By the way, that's story that Windhorst reported a while back, that still blows my mind. But we're seeing it again right now, really. Well, and then you have obviously Kevin who left, right, Golden State, which is one of the greatest teams ever assembled. And you have James who they did everything for him. They let him make every single play. They catered the entire offense around him. They brought in Dwight Howard, then they brought in Chris Paul, then they brought in Russell Westbrook, then they brought in shooters around them. And there's all kinds of guys that are in his wake. you know, have been traded other places or whatever else.

And they mortgaged future for this. And he wasn't happy, right? He didn't. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. All that being said, I get it. I get it. Because if you're this level of a player and you feel like you are capable of

winning a championship and maybe it's not a chase for some feeling as much as just the sense of accomplishment, And for Hardin, he is a player who feels like I can win a title. Why would you not try to do which everything you possibly can to get out and be on a team where you feel like you can do that? Because with this Rockets team, we talked about this before the season. Well, actually, let's back up even a little bit more. I think it was around maybe July when we were talking about who's the next team that could blow it up. We said the Houston Rockets, the both of us.

And you were surprised that I felt that way. Yeah, but it's got it. You held out hope for three months that James Harder was going to work out. I'll get to that in a second. But the point is this came sooner than I expected right here, all of this, everything that's transpired. But with Houston, even if you look at this roster, on paper, it's pretty good. You know, John Wall, James Harding, Christian Wood playing an all-star level, PJ Tucker, Eric Gordon, Jay John Tate coming off the bench, giving some really good energy. like this is a good team on paper.

But Harding going up at that podium on Tuesday night after they got smacked by the Lakers twice in a row, is he wrong about this team not being good enough? And he's 31 years old right now. Who knows how many years left off his prime. You got to take advantage of the time while you have it. Okay. For players, I'm not saying that like, you know, they're wrong for any, any, I'm just saying I get it.

the desire to go to a team where you can win. I get it. I think if I were a high-level basketball player, I'd want to do that too. There's nothing I enjoy more than winning. Really, like, it's just the truth. I love to win. But Kevin,

whether it's a video game or whatever else. If you want to validate the whole, he's right. They're not good enough. That could be said for virtually every player in the league. Who couldn't say that? And you not think, it's probably right.

I'm not, I'm not sure I caught what you're saying there. Who? What do you mean not good enough? Let's say that phrase. A guy walks into a press conference and he says, we're not good enough. Outside of LeBron and Anthony Davis, who do you think it would be ridiculous to hear that from? I mean, I think there's a number of teams that I'd be surprised to hear anybody say that. But let's say, Nicolaeokic walks in tomorrow night and says,

I want out. We're not good enough. I mean, this is like, it's a different situation here. It built to this. This is like, Harden doing that is clearly, very clearly orchestrated a bit here because. No, but you defended him saying we're not good enough and he's right. Okay. Guess what? I'm not, I'm not defending.

I'm not defending as much as saying I get it. I get it. Like, this is what he did up there at that podium was a strategic thing. like the trade talks that were occurring that day obviously his team knows about that they're pushing their way out as much that they can they see a window they leap out and going up there at that podium and doing that as sure as how we're going to tick off for titta teammates and it did it ticked off everybody him doing that that was one of the final pushes to get his way out after what they tried in november and december with the trade demand and showing up late the training camp and all that this is a strategic decision here you know to try to try to try to get out when the opportunity was available, when Brooklyn was offering everything that they were, because Brooklyn themselves felt urgency. That's not what I was talking about.

I know he was doing that so that they would trade him. I know that. But I was only talking about the truthfulness of him saying, we're not good enough. Well, that could be said that's the issue. That's what we're dealing with here. And that's why everybody is changing teams. You know what I mean?

And like I said, that's why they have to have jersey insurance on fanatics.com. Like I said, I get it. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. All I'm saying is I get it. I get the desire to maximize the prime of your career and try to go win a championship. I get it. Ultimately, whether this is good or bad for teams, for fans, for the league, I don't know.

I don't know. You know, I grew up, you know, as a Celtics fan, I remember trade rumors about Paul Pierce every year hearing local radio all the time talking about trade Paul Pierce trade Paul Pierce trade Paul Pierce not a winner and have they traded Paul Pierce there were times it felt close you know what I would have understood as a fan and I have always understood that that's part of the game which is partially from me being a Patriots fan I remembered 2003 season trading lawyer Malloy or cutting lawyer a way a day before the season started I've I've experienced that loss loss of a great player as a fan since I was young.

And I remember Antoine Walker getting traded. I think there's the first move Danny Age ever made after he was hired. People loved Antoine. So I felt that, you know, from my young age. And I'm not sure it's a good or bad thing. All I know is that as a fan for me growing up, it helped to have the awareness that this roster now, this team that I'm rooting for, it is temporary. It will change.

And ultimately, I'm not sure it's all that different other than it's. been taken to an extreme. No, no, listen, let me finish. It's gone to an extreme level where now even star players, everybody's always on the move. It has just been turned up to 11 or 12. That like, it is an extreme level. Is that good or bad? I don't know. All I know is that this is part of what the game is and it has turned into something more extreme. So if you want to change that, then that has to change longer contracts, whatever else it might be. But that's part of the game. And the end of the day, I guess. I get it.

I get the desire. But this is Tom Brady. That's where your analogy doesn't work with the I grew up a Patriots fan. The periphery can all change. I'll give you two different examples. But if Tom Brady changed every three years or Tom Brady, you know what I'm saying? That would have been a whole different deal. And you are a Patriots fan.

One, just a, but in here, that's the different. That's why I gave both examples, you know, with Paul Pierce, where there are always being trade rumors. Antoine Walker being traded, but also with the Patriots, other great players around in the roster. I knew, oh, this is temporary. And that helped understand the weirdness of having a guy for 20 years. I mean, this is unbelievable what happened with Tom Brady in New England.

That is so unusual. And it will be such a rarity. What happened with Dirk, with Dallas staying there his whole career? Kobe. With the Lakers. I mean, this is going to be an increasingly rare thing, which, in my opinion, should make it even more special. when a guy stays a place for all of his career,

or maybe if not all of it, all of it until right towards the end when they're old and just trying to keep on playing. I do wonder if, you know, this is an extension of what the NBA has done in terms of promoting its stars as individuals more so than the franchises, right? The NFL, typically, of course, they're going to have, you know, star players on the brochure or on the, on the poster, on the movie poster, as it were.

But people care, like, it is, it is the Bears versus the Vikings on one week, right? And, and everybody might watch it. I know there's fantasy and there's gambling and there's all kinds of implications. But the NBA has long since, you know, bypass the whole promotions of the franchises and the, teams and promoted the players, right? And I understand that these are the star players on these teams and that it is much more individualistic. If that, you know, that's probably my best way to say that, right? Like, if you promote it as individuals and obviously there's fans of teams that they're not really fans of teams, they're just fans of the player, right? And so I, I, I,

am a LeBron fan. Let's say, I'm a LeBron fan. And honestly, I don't really care about Kyle Kuzma and Cedavius Caldwell Pope, except for the way they affect LeBron, who I am a fan of. And if LeBron goes to the Milwaukee Bucks, I'm going to be a fan of the Milwaukee Bucks. And if he goes to what, and there are Lakers fans that no matter who plays with the Lakers, they are going to root for the Lakers, right? But there's a lot of people that just like LeBron, and there's a lot of people that just like, it'll be interesting to see what happens with the Hardin thing, right? How many of those people are hardened fans?

And that's what they really love? Or are they Rockets fans, right? And the Rockets are what they really love. I mean, can I speak to that for a second? You know, so when it comes to my Patriots fandom, you know, this past year, two things. There's just two sides of this. One, Tom Brady leaving the team,

I cared less about the Patriots this year than I ever have in my life. And I think part of that is Tom Brady, you know, not being there. Part of it is not watching the games with my dad. It's just the truth. Like, that's something I felt. I just don't, not being on the couch with him watching games is different. So I haven't cared as much.

And but with Tom Brady there, I care more. They were also bad for the first time in a hundred years. Yeah, but they also started out well. And even when they did, they had that, you know, Cam Newton had a huge game against the Seahawks early in the season. Granted, I lost. The team felt promising. Yeah.

Did. Cam at that point, it's like, whoa, Cam looks great, you know? And it turned out that he can't complete a pass. But I found myself You watched enough then. But even in the early season, I cared more about the bucks getting victories than I did. The Patriots, last season even.

I remember talking with some of my friends that have known for years and I've said to them, I feel like, I believe I even said it to you in the pod. I feel like I'm more of a fan of Tom Brady than I am of the Patriots. It's just the truth. I am and I didn't know how I would feel once he left if he left, which he did. And it's changed things for me. And I would be willing to bet, you know, considering how Long Hardin has been with Houston, that there will be a lot of fans that

don't like the way things are going in Houston. They don't like for Tidda. They don't like, you know, all the changes. They don't like not having Mori to root for as a GM. They don't like having the fun of Mori on Twitter now being in Philadelphia. Maybe now Houston is just not as appealing of a team to root for or follow anymore. And that they'll resonate towards rooting for Brooklyn because of James Hardin being there and wanting to see James Hardin, win it all, something that he came close to doing, close with some deep playoff runs and with the Rockets, that you want to see that guy do it in the same way that I want to see Tom Brady go out win his seventh freaking Super Bowl because I think that guy is the goat and he's brought me

so much happiness. I want to see him succeed more than I do my own team that I rooted for growing up. So it's a really weird feeling. You know, it's a really weird failing. but ultimately that's what it is like for me. You know, like I said, there's other factors that play into it, but I would imagine that for a lot of fans of the Rockets,

they might feel that way. Though it is different, though. It's different. There's also going to be fans that feel like, you know, they hate Harden now. They hate hard. And then they want him to fail there. And they want the Rockets to succeed without him

and show that they can do it without a guy, you know, that has everything built around him and is that given everything to him? and it'll be fascinating to see like say like but the NBA when I talk about that promoting the individual

just take in mind and we are guilty too because we want to see the guy right like we may not care necessarily a perfect example is last year they put the Pelicans on TV

100 million times nobody gave a shit nobody wanted to watch the Pelicans with Zion injured nobody nobody wanted to watch those games but they've got all these national TV games because they have Zion Williamson on their team.

People want to see Zion Williamson. Like, let's say Indiana was what, the four or five seed last year? Whatever. I think they're five seed. Okay. Indiana, they're going to end up being, they're on national TV 120th of what the Pelicans will be. They won way more, right?

Like, they won way more, but people want to see Zion. Even if it's on a worst team, right? There's no debate. The Pacers were a much, much better. team, right? But the NBA goes out of its way to promote its stars, put its stars on TV. And so when we care so greatly about the individual, is it now this is what we have wrought? Of course, people care deeply about their individual success rather than feeling necessarily loyalty or tied to a team because they're the entity. They're the team. They're the, you know,

they're the team, right? I mean, because if I, if I leave here, you're not even going to be on national TV ever again, right? Or you're not, like, so that's a part of player empowerment. I think sometimes when people play player, when they say player empowerment, it's about the players just, you know, took the power into their own hands.

They have been empowered by the machine, you know what I'm saying, that is promoting them as individuals. And so when they act as individuals, how can we be surprised, right? They do what's best for them. Yeah. You know, like I said, I get it. And ultimately, though, doing what you want to do, you know, going, you know, the grass isn't always greener.

And there's no guarantees that something that you choose to do ends up being for the best. And so now with Brooklyn, you have Kevin Durant, you have Kyrie Irving, you have James Hardin. You've also lost, you know, Jared Allen. who's been their best defensive player. You lost Karris Leverd, who's been very good for them. Granted, you're upgrading to Hardin. But you lost some good pieces from that team. And with them, there's no guarantee that they win at all here.

The upside for the Brooklyn Nets is greatest offense of all time. That's what the upside is. This could be the greatest offense ever with those three level scores who are creative geniuses on the ball who can also play off ball when they want to. I mean, this could be. I mean, when I think about what the nets could be if they're all clicking, they could be unstoppable. The question will be, how good can their defense become?

What level can it reach? And we talked about this a little bit. The other question is who sacrifices? Well, I mean, the sacrificing has to happen. You know, that has to happen on the offensive end. Well, but part of sacrifice is also stepping up in the defensive end. We have seen Kyrie have moments throughout his career, particularly in the year Cleveland won the finals, where he locked in on.

defense. We have seen Kevin Durant and his prime, and maybe his peak when he was with Golden State playing more of the five, playing some four next to Draymond, where he was defending everywhere on the court. James Hardin, he's a good post defender, and when he's locked in, he can be a solid on-ball defender for you. He can be active in passing lanes when he's locked in. The nets have a path to becoming a good defense. But what needs to happen is sacrifice on offense, like you're mentioning in terms of touches, in terms of moving off ball and all that, but also sacrifice in the sense that you get to invest in energy, you might be saving on offense, and you've got to put it into defense.

Because for this team to be what it could be, and that's the favorites in the east heading into the playoffs, they got to show that ability by then. And there's no guarantees here. There's just not. The Kyrie variable cannot be understated what they're going through right now. That's part of the reason why they felt such urgency to get a deal. done for Hardin was because Hardin is also Kyrie

insurance here. He just is in case Kyrie decides the flakes out or leaves or whatever, you still have Hardin and Durant. Who is the one that sacrifices the most? The Chris Bosch, the Kevin love of the situation. I mean,

it's fascinating because is it more like who's the Ray Allen? And when I say that, I mean, with Boston situation, with KG, Paul Pearson, Ray Allen, Ray Allen was the one who quote unquote sacrificed the most, but he still got a lot of shots.

And I wonder who becomes the guy that's more of the off ball presence. Part of me wonders if that could end up being hardened. I do wonder about that. I mean, Kyrie wanted more, right? Like, it's fair to say, he's been in a spot where he wanted more

than his role. He wasn't happy playing with LeBron. We know that. We know he wasn't happy. He wasn't happy playing with LeBron, right? And then we know KD wasn't happy playing with the Warriors guys. Yeah, for a number of different reasons. There's more than, you know, yeah.

Right, yes. Yeah. And we know James Hardin wasn't comfortable playing with four guys that stand around and watch him dribble. I have a very difficult time believing that this is going to be the basketball Zen situation. when I have seen those guys being in other. Carrie obviously wasn't happy playing with Tatum and Brown. Like, I mean, I just don't, like, why would he, why would he be okay with K.D. and Hardin, but he's not okay with LeBron and Love.

And he's not okay with Tatum and Brown. And he's not okay. Like, what do you want? I mean, it's, it's, I think it's more complicated than that. I mean, like the, the KD thing is so much about also the way people were talking about him, whether his rings were legitimate. it was partially that. It was partially the friction just between him and Draymond, which wasn't a matter of touches. It was a matter of personalities clashing.

You know, when it comes to relationship with Steph, part of that was about being faced the franchise, which is, you know, touching on what you're talking about with Brooklyn. But I think Kyrie and Katie coming together was, you know, a willingness to not worry about that, that he was going to a place to define what the Nets were going to be, rather than with Gold and St. he went to a place that already had. They were already defined. They already knew what they were, and that was Steph's team, Clay's team, Draymond's team. And then with Kyrie,

Kyrie is Kyrie. Really, Kyrie is Kyrie. Do you think any of those three guys does not think they are the best player in the NBA? I don't know. I mean, I think they're capable of sacrificing. Katie showed he could sacrifice

at some points with Golden State before it went bad. Kyrie did adapt to playing with LeBron James. James Hardin played with Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook and he was one of the best six men in the NBA. He played with different stars and granted it was different playing with Chris Paul

and it didn't work out. That was partially due to personality between those two guys. They did not get along. They did not click. They did not like each other. Part of that due to basketball, part of that just due to how they are as people.

Well, they also, but then it was his little league buddy, Russell Westbrook after that. I mean, we've been friends with forever. With Russ, Russ, Russell wasn't happy there. But he knew he, him, he played with him, and he wanted him. But I think that was, yeah, yeah, for sure.

And ultimately, I mean, Russ leaving was partially due to Hardin also wanting to leave and Hardin wanted to leave. They both wanted to leave. They didn't want to play with each other anymore. Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't think it's that they didn't like each other. They just wanted something different. But ultimately, I think these guys can't sacrifice. I think they can't. And a lot of that's going to have to come down to Kyrie, though.

Katie, I think is going to be willing to. Hardin, I think it's going to be willing to. Kyrie, we'll see what happens. there. That's the major X factor here. First of all, he's going to get back. He just got fined for, you know, breaking the health and safety protocols, $50,000, according to the NBA release a statement about that. So he's got to get back to the court. He's got to start, you know, not breaking those protocols. He has to sacrifice on the court. There's a lot of questions here with the Brooklyn Nets. But the point is that their upside, their upside is off the charts, man, on the offensive end of the floor. If those guys actually buy in and start trying on defense. I mean, it's going to be hard to say. It's going to be hard to say they won't be the favorites come playoff time. That's what I don't.

I don't buy the defense thing. I don't. I do not think there is a path for them to being good defensively. You know, DeAndre Jordan at center and no. If they still had Jared Allen, you know what I mean? At least you'd have a chance.

Would you have done the trade if you were at Brooklyn? Yes, still? No. No, you wouldn't have because you're not a big James Hardin guy. Nope. So what would you have done? Just like Kyrie and Katie, you know, do their thing this year and...

Why not? I'm just saying. Yes, yes. I mean, I would have tried to salvage the Kyrie thing. I got enough... I get it that it's like one of those things where you don't know what's going to happen with that. This is what you were trying to say.

So it puts an impetus on, hey, let's go do this now. Because, hell, that way, even if Kyrie does flake on us completely, At least we still got James Harden, right? And because we can't have that go down. I understand, right? I understand. I just think you might have compounded things because what you're doing is you're saying,

we can't waste another Durant year. Like he lost one to injury. He doesn't have that much time left on the contract. If Kyrie flakes on this or he gets hurt, you know, he's had an injury history, like at least now we've gone all in right again this is one of those as I was saying the hardest thing to do is to keep your star happy and you're just rolling the dice that everybody's going to be happy but that's their attempt to make KD happy so that this is not a two-year deal and that you can keep it because otherwise you don't mean he's going

to look at that and go shit I already wasted two years right like that's why they did the deal. So I say, I understand. I also think it is a tremendous risk. And I do not think that I am of the view that you still got to have role players on your team, right? I mean, they don't have poor supporting cast, though. Joe Harris is one of the better shooters in the league. Obviously, he ain't ever going to touch the ball. He's going to get a lot of open shots. Timothy Lauwalu, Cabero. These guys aren't going to touch them. They have some good role players. I am of the, I am of the opinion that you have. The guys that do the dirty work. You've got guys that carry an offensive load for you. And I think your

offense was going to be fine if you got Kyrie and Kevin Durant. Yeah, but you keep saying if you have Kyrie and that's why I say this is Kyrie insurance. It's insurance for this season, but also like you said, if KD was unhappy, if Kyrie was gone or Kyrie and him didn't click anymore and that suddenly maybe trading Kyrie's in the best interest of keeping Kevin Durant happy, now you have James Harden. And Kevin Durant, can become a free agent after the 2021, 22 season. So that means after next season, KD can become a free

agent. That's coming up very soon, as can James Harden. But like keeping those two guys together, it's partially about that as well. Having them also makes Kyrie if it comes down to it, like I said, if it comes to it or a move has to be

made where you can feel better about losing him, whether it's like Stephen A. Smith said on a first take the other day, Kyrie should retire if he were to retire or whether another team were to want to trade for him, which I'm not sure how many teams really would want to trade for Kyrie Irving at this

point. Just the, just the facts. But all I'm saying is having Harden is Kyrie insurance in so many more ways than just if he appease comes back to season. Here is the reason I don't think it will work. Okay? Because

what you think is if you win and you win big and you got a shot at the title, that that is basketball happiness, right? To me, like, do we say these guys want to win, right? That's what they want to do. They want to win. Kevin Durant was in the winning situation, and it didn't make him content. James Hardin was in the winning situation. You know, he could have said, hey, look how good we are at basketball. I'm willing to put aside my differences with Chris Paul, right, to make this thing work, because I mean, we're right there.

We got a chance to win of the title with the team that we've got. Clearly, we're right there on the precipice. We got a chance. Kyrie Irving, he was in the NBA finals when he just shut out and wasn't talking to the rest of the team. So to me, it's hard for me to believe that you can throw three guys that weren't happy winning. What do you want? What do you want? You want to win championships?

Like, you've all had chances to win championships. So when I am dealing with three guys like that, the idea that I could just throw them all together and then all of a sudden everybody's going to be happy with their situation. Because they've been unhappy, not in, if Carl Anthony Towns comes out and says, I am sick of this shit. I bust my ass all the time.

He doesn't bust his ass. But let's just say, I don't want to spend another three years losing. I spent seven losing for the better part of seven years. or whoever, right? These are guys that weren't happy in winning situations. So how am I throwing all three of them together and expecting them to be happy?

What's going to make them happy? Winning? I mean, you can win while being unhappy. I mean, I'm just saying, I guess the truth. That's what I said they all did. Yeah, so you can win an A championship or multiple championships while being a little bit unhappy.

Could you in a million? It's about the talent level, Chris. Could you in a million years, though? see, can you envision? Just close your eyes for a minute. The picture of the three of them, the three of them holding a trophy together. No, come on. I mean, I can't visualize, so I can't answer that question.

No, I can't. I need to get you some CBD or something. I mean, visualization, Chris, I can't get a clear image in my head, you know, about that. But I can imagine the idea of them. winning a championship. And like I said, I can see them having one of the most potent offenses we've ever seen. I can see these guys operating and playing together at a high level. To me, there's a chance that we see that. Will we for a fact? No, there's no guarantees and anything. That's the point here. All I'm saying is that this team's upside is immense. And that's

why you do that deal 10 out of 10 times if you're the Brooklyn Nets and why this is, in my opinion, a win for them. I know they gave up all those picks and I know they're killing their future flexibility, but you got to maximize having Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving and try to win a championship, even if it's only a three year window. If it's a three year window when you get one, it's worth it. It's worth it. It just is. But it could also be way longer than a three year window too. It just could be. And maybe at some point one of those guys leaves and it becomes Katie and Hardin, who really knows what the future brings. All I know is having these guys can work, and that's why the Nets did it.

It's why they were right to do it, and why they're upside now is significantly higher than it was last week at this time. And this is why we're the mismatch. I don't agree at all. I don't agree at all. I understand, but I think that it is the panic, that it is brought upon Kyrie Irving not being at your gym. They would kind of do this deal back in December, though. But if Kyrie Irving had been playing every night and they were humming along, you don't feel like you've got to do this.

I really believe that. If you were humming all along and Kyrie and KD, they were already pretty devastating when they were on the court. We've seen that. We've seen them trading off in moments. And now throwing another guy who is a score first guy into the mix. And everybody eating and everybody being happy, when it's already been hard to figure out what makes guys happy.

I don't know. I don't know. And that's the thing. That goes back to the original point where everybody used to say the hardest thing to get a star, I don't know what makes these guys happy anymore. Is it winning? Is it a chance at winning? Is it being able to play how you want to play?

It's different for everybody, man. It just is, whether it's a basketball player or no matter what you do in life. It used to be easier, though. Sometimes the finish line doesn't. bring joy. It's just the truth. It can feel, it can give you a temporary sense of accomplishment. And, you know, to bring it back to Tom Brady, I remember after he won his first three Super Bowl, he was asked, I think, in a 60 Minutes interview, which one is your favorite? And he smirks and he says, the next one. It's about the chase. It's really about the journey. And that's what needs to be

enjoyed. It can't just be about the finish line and about, you know, hoisting the trophy or getting the A plus on your report card, whatever it might be. It's about the journey and getting there and investing and enjoying the process and the day to day, getting better from struggles. That's what it needs to be about. And if you're focused on just the end game, and this is the issue I have with Rings Culture, it's not just about winning the championship. That is the period at the end of the sentence. That is the thing that you remember forever. But the journey can still be cherished and enjoyed on the way there, even if it doesn't result in winning at all. And so for these players, I think it's really about a shift in mindset.

You have changed since we started this podcast. It's still, it's one of our biggest arguments, though. It's still all about winning a championship. But you can still enjoy everything on the way there. You can, you still got to enjoy the process to get there. It's just the truth. But I used to fight that if you don't win the championship, it could still have value. Yeah.

And I wouldn't argue that. Like, it's, it's like, there's, The Gritten Grand Grizzlies. I don't think I ever once said, oh, those years don't matter because I didn't win a championship. Of course they matter. They matter a lot. But it can't just all be about the end. Ultimately, the goal of an organization should be about trying to win a championship.

That's what it should be about. The goal of an organization, what pisses me off is when certain organizations, their goal is we're going to get in the playoffs to get a couple home games on TV and get more revenue in. but we really don't care as much about going all in and try to win a championship. To me, that's a slap in the face to your fans. That's a slap in the face. I've felt the joy. I've been spoiled my whole life ever since I was a little boy.

Red Sox coming back from down three O against the Yankees, you know, winning four in a row, then winning four in the World Series. I've been spoiled with the Patriots winning three when I was a little boy. I saw the Celtics win. I saw the Bruins win. I'm a spoiled brat growing up a Boston sports fan. And I know what it feels like more than. most people to win a championship as a fan.

And that feeling is unbeatable. And I think when organizations aren't going for that, it is a slap in the face and it's pure disrespect to fans that they won't get the opportunity to experience that because the organization that they are spending money on to to buy jerseys, to go to games, concession stands, you know, cable package to get the games on TV, getting their kids packets of cards, I think it's a slap in the face to all of them. That's why I think it's on the teams to go for winning at all. But from a fan perspective, from a player's perspective, from a coach's perspective, you still got to enjoy the journey in the way there because only

one team can win it. Only one team. And oftentimes it's that organization that's doing everything they possibly can to win it all. So I get what you're saying and where maybe my views have evolved a little bit, but I think at its core, it still remains the same that I put it on the organization from an organizational perspective. It's on them to do everything they can to win it all for everybody else that's put in everything they can in their own different ways. No. This is all years ago from the, it was the blow-it-up conversation.

It was the rap. Like I said, that blow-it-up conversation was also a time in the NBA where I felt like there were a lot of teams that should blow it up. Right now, I think we're nearing the point where you're going to see some of those teams. We've been through a couple times, but there's not a lot of teams I look at. There's just, there's just not. You're six months away from acquiring a star, no matter who you are. The whole 2018 All-Star team is wearing three years, Kev.

That's amazing, isn't it? That can't be good. It can't be good. And one of the guys who hasn't been moved on those teams yet is Bradley Beale. And he could be the next one. And you just write an article back. Yeah, just, yeah, yeah. And with no way, you know what?

He can be next. I met when I rattled off all those team LeBron's, he had three players on that team that aren't. Brad Beal, Gorin Dragich, LaMarcett's Aldrich. And you would argue if Beal, you wrote the article about Beal, Alderge, we've talked about the Spurs moving on from his tenure.

And Dragherst just resigned, but he's on a, you know, finals team. Yeah. Yeah, last year. Right? Also 34 years old now too. Yeah. And leaving Miami is not the easiest thing to do.

You know what I mean? No. LeBron went back home, but like other than that, it's not that I can't imagine that, you know, if you got a place down on South Beach, that you'd be all that interested in moving elsewhere. Have you been to Miami? I haven't.

I haven't. I'd love to go post-pandemic whenever that is, which who knows. I'd like to do a lot of things post-pandemic. Yeah, me too. I feel, do you feel a greater urge to explore? Yes. Yeah. Do you feel a greater urge to do anything, Kevin? Yeah, me too. Me too. You know what I feel the greater than sit in my house?

Yeah. I feel a great urge to do anything other than sit in my house. Yeah. And wear a face mask everywhere I go. You know, I was listening to John Mayer yesterday. He had an interview with Paul Reed Smith. They make guitars and they're released like a new John Mayer signature. That's beautiful, by the way. And he made the point about how for musicians, they've always, you know, throughout their life, kind of been homebody sometimes.

You know, you're at home, you're playing guitar eight hours past. You're like, whoa, where all the time go? And for some musicians, it might be easier to be at home. Like for me, it has been a little bit easier. My whole life, I've been home playing guitar or video games. I've never been someone who goes up the parties. I didn't live on campus in college. So for me, it's like I'm used to being home.

However, I also, I think in the last year plus, have really grown to love just having dinners out with friends. I love doing that in L.A. I loved organizing the Dunk on Cancer event in Toronto. And I think you and I have even talked before. Like, I'd love to do live mismatch shows. I'd love to be able to fly down to Memphis and do something there with you. Or you come to L.A. or Boston and do something like that. And I think last year and 29, not last year, two years ago now.

in 2019 during the finals when I had that event in Toronto, that might be the best night of my life. Like that night is something I'll remember forever. Just connecting with people before and after the show, having all the people we had on stage, Zach Lowe, Taylor Rooks, you know, everybody, like so many different warriors

and Raptors writers. Like, it was a special night. And I wouldn't have more nights like that. Well, never in a billion years, if I would have told you that night, we're not going to be able to do this in two years. Yeah.

You just never think you're going to be stripped from your freedom like that. No doubt about it. And, you know, I think, you know, once we're out of this, whenever that time comes, don't know, TBD, I feel a greater desire than ever before to bring people together, whether like the small group of three friends. Yeah. We're like organizing an event for a live podcast. Like, there's that, that's a, that's something I can't wait. I can't wait to go to a concert and, you know, feel like the presence of a bunch of people around you in a crowd.

You know, a bunch of street. I've been going to these games. Bro, it is depressing as hell. It really is more depressing being there. I'm not kidding. On TV. Yes. On TV, I don't know this.

You know what I'm saying? You don't know this. Yeah, but being in an empty arena, sitting there watching it in a face mask, it sucks. Yeah. It sucks. Like, it's a one-time people, you do. not have to be jealous about me going and seeing games in person.

You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? People think like, that's a dream job. Like, I trust me, if I could be home watching it on TV, I would choose watching it on TV. I mean, I have to be. Yeah. Yes. It's just so depressing.

It really is. I mean, I've seen, I've been to a lot of great games in person in my life. I saw the Red Sox hit four home runs in a row against the Yankees many years ago with my dad. I was at the game when Isaiah Thomas scored 53. points against the Wizards in the postseason, which was one of the most emotional sports nights ever. And that night with the Celtics, the night with the Red Sox, like, there's nothing than the feeling of that whole crowd just blowing up together and just sharing a bunch of strangers sharing in a special moment together, being there for something they enjoy.

I mean, geez, man, I cannot wait. I can't wait until those times are back. I just, I missed that so much. And I haven't been to a game yet, but at some point, I'm not sure when, at some point, I'd like to go to a Celtics game since I'm here in Brockton now and see what it's like. See what it's like. Before we get out of here, I will tell you one last thing. So a couple of years ago when we were doing the podcast, you may remember my, I grew up with my father and I, he had season tickets to the St. Louis Blues. It's the team he cares about the most. And when the one of the Stanley Cup, I watched every game with him. And it was the greatest. our favorite sports moment together, to say the least, right?

So the other night, there's one good thing about the whole live sports, a pandemic. And I've talked about my father's in a wheelchair now, so it's not like we could go to games together anyway. That being said, I went down to his house, and I showed him, I brought down this picture. I said, Dad, I said, this is not, I said, I got you season tickets to the blues. and he was like, what? Because their season was about to start. And I was like, I got you season tickets. I was like, it's the least I could do.

For all those years, you took me to all the games. I got two season tickets. He's like, what are you talking about? Right? And I showed him, Kevin, I bought one of those cardboard cutouts that they're putting in the arena during the game. So he still watches all of the games. So now our quest is to try to find him in the crowd.

Like, I'm praying. I just am praying at some point the camera scans by. And I bought one of those like, you know, you could buy yourself as a cutout. I bought him as a cutout at the games. And he was like, he was like, no way. And I was like, yes, dude. And I was like, you're going to be one of those cutouts at the game. It didn't cost much either.

I thought a great value. I don't know how many that sold. I hope they haven't sold that many so I can actually see him. are less than 100 bucks. Yeah, it was like, I mean, I pay, I think it was 75. That seems like a good deal. Yeah. To be a cardboard cut out at the game.

Yeah, I'll love it to that. Yeah. It's like also a perfect, you know, gift for the holiday season. It's great. Yeah, I know. A pandemic. I know. And that's the other part.

You got to make the most of this freaking thing that we're all going through and moments like that or something like you don't know what you're going to laugh about. I tell you this. Now, they're raising money for charity. the blues are. I don't know why every team isn't doing this. Yeah. Seems like a no-brainer. Everybody, wouldn't everybody pay 75 bucks to have themselves? You know what I mean? Like, if they could.

It's going to charity and all that. Yeah. If they're going to charity, right? Like if it's your favorite team. Or could help out like local restaurants or workers, you know, whatever it might be. Pony up 75 bucks and you get your, you know, photo in the stands. Yeah, I did that. I'm into it. I'm praying. I'm going to, I'm going to watch more games this year than I have in 20 years. because I'm praying that at some point the camera scans by you. That would be a whole laugh. You got to make sure you tweet it out or post about it. My dad at the game.

My dad's at the game. Anyway, thank you to producer Sasha. As always, thanks to you for listening to the show. And we will talk to you on Tuesday. Thank you, everybody.