The Mismatch - Which Franchise Will Finally Get Over the Hump? | The Void

Episode Date: December 29, 2021

Welcome to ‘The Void,’ where Kevin O’Connor brings you deep inside the NBA with the people who know it best. KOC brings on Gibson Pyper, basketball coach and owner/creator of The Basketball Playbook and YouTube channel Half Court Hoops. Gibson joins KOC to take a look at four NBA franchises that can’t get over the hump to reach a championship. The first team they look at is the Boston Celtics; they discuss the team’s lost identity (04:02) and debate whether Jaylen Brown should be the one taking that last shot instead of Jayson Tatum (08:00). They next look over the Utah Jazz and discuss the franchise’s inability to get creative with Rudy Gobert (14:05). Then they take a long look at the Portland Trail Blazers and debate what moves, if any, they can make (24:26). They last discuss the fading Los Angeles Clippers (38:21), before Gibson shares why he loves to coach (44:58). Host: Kevin O’Connor Guests: Gibson Pyper Producers: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Top MMA voices, Ariel Hawani, Chuck Mindenhall, and Pizzie Carroll are live on the Spotify Greenroom app for every major MMA card with the Ringer MMA show. Hear the guys react to weigh-ins in real time and find out what they think of the fights the moment the final card ends. Plus, when breaking MMA news happens, they'll be live to talk to you about it. And if you miss the Green Room show, you can hear it as a podcast anytime on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening to The Boy. Today I'm talking with Gibson Piper who breaks down the NBA on his outstanding YouTube channel called Half Court. hoops. He also runs a website called The Basketball Playbook.com, which is an

amazing resource for coaches and anyone looking to learn about basketball X's and O's. I'm really excited to talk to them today. How's it going, Gibson? How's it going, Kevin? Thanks for having me on. So we're turning the page to 2022 with six weeks to go until the NBA trade deadline. And today we're going to talk about some teams that have consistently

made the playoffs in recent years that are now trying to get over the hump. We're going to get into what has changed about those teams, what still needs to change and moves that might make sense for them. And we're going to through four teams today, starting with the Boston Celtics, losers of eight of their last 12 games entering Wednesday night. A bunch of their players, like many teams are in COVID protocols at the moment.

After Boston lost to a depleted Minnesota team on Monday, Ema Adoka called out his players for what seems like the fifth time this season already. Gibson, it's not good in Boston right now. But I'm curious, what are your early impressions of Udocha as a coach as he navigates through this tough start to the Celtics season? You don't know yet, honestly. Like, it's tough because, you know, it's like I think you and Riscilla talked about the late game scenarios where, you know, Brown and Tatum alternate isolation possessions, right? And it's tough because you want to run, let's say you're getting in a late game situation, you want to run actions for your best players.

You want to get your best players involved. And so do you run an action that may have four or five people touch the ball and then it gets to 10 seconds or nine seconds on the shot clock and Tatum has to force it? Do you want them to go ISO? You know, it's just, it's a hard, it's a hard situation to be in. You know, you want to keep the hands of your best players, but you also want to put the defense in a compromising situation. And my problem when watching the Celtics is, is more about, like, what are they? Like, I don't know what they are.

I know the Jazz are going to pick and roll you to death, and you've got a weakness. Like, you're screwed. I don't know what the Celtics are. Like, are they, they're running five out sometimes with like Williams and Horford on the floor at the same time with Schroeder, spacing. And it's like that lineup is going to suck because you have no shooting. Nobody cares about those guys spotting up or spacing. So now when you have Tatum or Brown attacking, you got five guys almost in the lane because you know Tatum isn't really going to look for a spot up three or look for a catch and shoot three all the time. He's more hard and where he likes to get,

you know, get the dribble going and figure it out. So I don't know how good or bad of a coach he is because like I don't know what they're doing. That's hard. You're 100% right, man. It doesn't It doesn't feel like this team has an identity. They're in a stage right now where they're figuring out who they are. And part of that, I mean, it is on the coach to define the system, to define the team's character. But it is on the players in the front office for finding the right personnel. And, you know, I think about the Celtics of a few years back with Isaiah Thomas,

Jay Crowder, Marcus Smart, the Celtics that call themselves, we're one superstar. Those teams had so much toughness. In grit, those teams played together. And you compare that to the Celtics we see now. And this team is just the total opposite. There's no heartbeat. This team doesn't have a heartbeat anymore.

And, you know, as you, I coach high school yourself, and I guess I'm curious with all your experience and the relationships you have in the NBA, I'm wondering for a basketball team, how do you find that hard? How do you get that identity back? So the hard part is, is the best teams from a leadership standpoint,

are not led by their coaching staffs. Like, if you look at the Warriors, like when Jordan Poole screws up a rotation, Draymond is yelling at him every single time. It's not Steve Kerr, it's not an assistant. It's not Kenny Aginson, it's Draymond.

And I'm sure they address it in film rooms, like they're coaching, but it's not the coaching staff immediately yelling at them on the court, right? Because the coaching staff can't fix every mistake. Like, it's Draymond Green being like, yo, you screwed up. Like, Jordan Poole overhelp

one time and Draymond was flipping out during a free throw because he overheld. Like, who on the Celtics would do that? Like, Draymond is losing his mind at another teammate in the middle of the game. Like, who on the Celtics? Marcus Smart's the most, like, like the highest candidate, right?

But he's more of like a veteran leader now. He's not diving on the floor as much like a, like a crazy, you know, man running around on defense. He's more of like, like a veteran leader, right? So it has to come from, from somebody on the court. Like somebody on the court has to say enough of this, man.

Like, this is who we are. This is what we're going to be about. And the culture that was set from, even like those Brad Stevens teams, like Brad Stevens, this reminded me of when Isaiah Thomas was with the Lakers recently, right? Brad Stevens had a top 10 defense

with Isaiah Thomas as his point card playing 33 minutes a game. Isn't that nuts? In hindsight, when you really think, remember how they had to hide him? Yeah. On defense, it was unbelievable. But it's like, what? Like, he had a top 10 defense

And so when you look at that, that team had that toughness and that culture built into it, right? And so what happens is like in the NBA especially, like unless you get two or three guys who are going to change that culture from a defensive standpoint, it just won't matter. Like the coach can go in and give all the motivational speech you want, talk about what you want schemes defensive-wise,

but like unless Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum actually take ownership of this team, right, whether it is setting the tone with their actions, or their words, it doesn't matter. Dremont does it with both. That's what makes them elite. Like, Draymond will do it with both. That's the cream of the crop. He's a champion for a reason.

And if they want to get to that level, they need to have just a little bit of that, just a little bit. Not full-blown, just a little bit. It's almost surprising when you pull up defensive rating rankings. The Celtics are 10th. It's kind of shocking in a way.

They're 21st in offensive rating. You mentioned their lack of spacing earlier in the type of system that they run. is there anything that you'd like to see them experiment with given the current personnel that they haven't done thus far this season? Or is there anything, any type of player that you think that they should be targeting ahead of the trade deadline over the next six weeks that could help them maybe do something else with Tatum and Brown and some of the other personnel that they already currently have?

It should be smart, Schrooter, Tatum, Brown, and Williams to start. And then have Horford off the bench and then go to the bench unit and mix in Schroeder and Horford to pick a roll combo, space the floor on the bench unit, and that's all it should be. And you don't have to run five out. You can run ball screen, but the problem is,

is when the ball goes from side to side, which is how NBA offense, any offense in basketball, the ball needs to go from the right side to the right side to the left side, your points per possession go up, right? The problem is when it goes from the right side to J1 Brown to the left side of Jason Tatum,

usually doesn't go back to the right side. You usually go stays with Tatum, attacking ISO, attacking ball screen. So you got to sell Tatum and Brown on this is the, the right way to play. Brad Stevens was a lead at that. This is the right way to play. Swing, swing, swing, swing, you know, five out, driving kick, driving kick, get to the rim. And they're not doing that at all.

You mentioned my podcast, Ryan Rusillo earlier this week. I set a stat on that pod about Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum. The last two seasons, 51 players have logged at least 300 isolations. Brown is 43rd inefficiency. Tatum is 40th in efficiency. Jalen Brown's been a bit better this season. Statistically, granted it's on a small sample side. He had that bucket pretty recently against Philadelphia, a hard drive into the paint right at Joelle and Bede and scored late in the fourth quarter.

He's had some nice pull-up jump shots. Is there anything that you've seen film-wise, like put aside the numbers that would suggest that maybe Jalen Brown is the guy more deserving of those isolations first over Tatum. Because Tatum still losing the ball often when he gets inside the paint. Doesn't have a great grip on the ball. He has smaller hands that hasn't improved for him over the years. Is there anything to indicate,

that maybe Jalen Brown should be the number one over Tatum when it comes to the hierarchy of those endgame isolation opportunities? I don't think so. If it's if it's me, like, you know, I'm looking at those two. I want a ball in Tatum's hands. Like, I just think he's a much more skilled score. I think he's, he's the length in where he released the ball. It's just almost impossible to guard. I think the problem arises is like, why are they, why are the isolations happening? Right. Like, like, late. Too many of them. Right. And late games, like whether you like it or not, whether I like it or not, like late game situations, they're going to, NBA teams are going to run isolation, whether they look for a switch, whether

they get a switch. But defenses aren't just going to let you run your horns downplay because you feel like it. They're going to switch it. They're going to switch whatever you try to do. They're going to make you uncomfortable. And honestly, at the end of games, that's sometimes the best option. I'm going to spring a trade idea on you here. Al Horford, Marcus Smart, Josh.

Richardson and picks to Houston for John Wall, Eric Gordon, and Daniel Tice. Boston's new starting five is Robert Williams, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, Eric Gordon, John Wall with Tice, Grant Williams, knee Smith, Schroeder, Pritchard, and others coming off the bench. What do you think? I would not trade for John Wall. Because of the unknown or because even if you know he's going to be the guy that he was at least last season, just because of the end or is it because of the fit? Just fit, right? Like, how many times are we going to get a point card in Boston who isn't an elite playmaker that is going to drive

and not shoot? You know, like, we're just shuffling guys in, in that mold every time. You know, I like the Gordon. I like the Gordon move. I like the tights move. So maybe trim out John Wall then. Yeah, that's fine. But at the end of the day, you still need somebody

who's, like, going to come down the court and be like, oh, they've been doing this for the last four possessions. hey, let's do this, Tatum, run off this pin down, I'll get you, I'll hit you off. You know, like, when it gets to the end of the game, and you're watching the Phoenix Sun's play, like, you know what's going to happen. You know Chris Paul is going to come down the court. He knows what defense they're running. He knows what they've tended to do. He knows what they've done the last three possessions. Hey, this is what we're going to do. This is the play we're going to run. Like, Monty Williams doesn't have to call plays. Chris Paul just comes down the court. He's

like, hey, we're going to run our money play, you know, right into it. Like, there's no doubt because he knows what's going on every single time. He doesn't have to score. He does, but doesn't have to. Just like a quarter of that for the Celtics would make their offense go from basically really bad to mediocre. For what it's worth, I agree with you about the Celtics training for John Wall, even though I brought up the idea, I'm just thinking outside the box because there's not a lot out there that makes sense and something like that would feel like a desperation play unless, you know, the next chapter of John Wall's career was different than what it was prior, but they need somebody who can stabilize things.

This is what they miss about Gordon Hayward. He was that guy who could steady the offense, and that's what the Celtics are going to need to find at the point guard position. I don't know if it's out there for them in the trade market ahead of this year's deadline. It might be the type of thing that has to wait until the summer, which is a shame because with Tatum and Brown, despite some of their flaws coexisting together, I still think it could work with the right point guard.

I have a pop quiz question for you, Gibson. Okay. Are you ready? And for everybody listening, I want you to take a guess too. This season, 37 ball handlers and screeners have run over 250 pick and rolls together, according to Second Spectrum tracking data. Chris Paul and DeAndre Aiton have 640 total together more than anyone in the whole league. But CP3 and Aiton aren't the NBA's most potent pairing per pick and roll ran.

The question is, which duo leads the NBA in point. scored per pick and roll. Oh, that's a great question. It's probably, I'm trying to think high usage. I was thinking like Trey Young Capella from the Hawks would be one of my best guesses. Frey Young and John Collins are number two, scoring 1.1.2 points per pick and roll.

I mean, other ones, the jazz were in the most ball screens in league, so Mitchell Gobert. Mitchell Gobert is number one. They score 1.17 points per pick and roll. Ran Conley Gobert or number three. And then you get Hardin Aldridge number four campaign Javille McGee number five. I want to talk about the Utah Jazz with you Gibson because we got three teams just rolling through the Western Conference this season.

The Warriors, the Suns, the Jazz and Golden State and Phoenix, it seems like they're getting a lot of the attention. Of course, you know, they've played some high profile games already. But Utah quietly, even better than last season, third best record in the West, another top 10 defense and they have by far the NBA's top draft. offensive rating. I'd Ben Taylor on a couple weeks ago on the podcast. And we talked about how they have the most, the greatest differential in offensive rating for a number one team compared to the league average and league history. But there are plenty of people who are going to be

listening to this podcast thinking, eh, we've seen this before. A great regular season team. They're just going to fail again in the playoffs. Rigo Bear, he stinks. There's going to be people saying that Gibson. So what I want to get into with you is if there's any evidence, it's going to be different this time and what are the things that maybe they need to do in order to prepare over the next six weeks ahead of the trade deadline and the next handful of months before the playoffs. So Gibson, you've studied this jazz offense pretty deeply. What is different this time around or is it just a better version of what they've done before? What they did was is they simplified it.

And Conley, I think, was on JJ Reddick's pod last year, I think in the middle of February. He was talking about how they really went to a more simplified ball. screen. Here's what you do in this scenario. Here's what you do in this scenario. Once you create the advantage, that's when the ball goes into the blender system. So the idea is spread pick and roll, usually with Gobert setting it. Now they added white side this year. He's a good, you know, secondary off the bench, you know, rim runner off the pick and roll. And then what they do is they just run a ball screen. They go, okay, how do you defend it? And then they run another ball screen. They go, how are you going to defend that? And they usually involve some minor action before a ball screen,

but then it always ends up in Gobert to the rim, shooter spaced, here's the re. Generally speaking, how most teams are going to play the jazz or try to play the jazz, especially in the playoffs, is to go to ice coverage or drop coverage and force that two-on-two, two-man game. And it usually have Gobert either make a finish or make a play, which are his weakest points on offense. Has he improved at all in that way? Not really. I mean, if we're just being honest, the problem he has is when he gets the ball,

if he's not like sealed low as if he gets a switch and he looks to basically sit in the paint and catch and finish, it's, it's really not very good. And the one thing he has improved on is if he gets the ball like around the free throw line or like outside the restricted area, he's able to find kickouts to threes a little bit better. But in terms of like, especially post-ups, it's just, it's not very good. And they're only posting him up like I think like 4% of the time. And he's one of like the second or third worst post-up players in the NBA. And so the biggest thing is if you're going to post up Gobert on a switch, the idea is to have him duck in, right? So it's a quick catch and finish versus having him make a post move. It's just it's just something that hasn't really ever improved. And then another thing that is it's hard. I don't have any sort of tracking or idea of if the team switch, what's the offensive rebound rate? You know, like I don't know if we have that advanced calculations yet. I definitely don't. And it would just take a lot of time to study that. But I think there are advanced.

to just keeping him in the dunker spot off a switch, and hopefully your team offensive rebound rate will be a little higher because, in theory, the bigger players will be pulled out on the perimeter guarding the jazz blender system. Rudy Gobert shoots 47% when he shoots after dribbling once or more. And this is a guy who shoots above 70% on all other shots, 75% when he doesn't need to dribble,

which is unsurprising considering the amount of lobs. And like you said, easy ducking opportunities where he can turn and just put it right up. but that is an area that hasn't necessarily improved for him. So when people talk about Utah, like I think their concerns or their criticisms in some ways are fair because of what we've seen happen to them in the past. Can you describe what the Clippers did do to muck up the jazz offense last season?

And with the way Utah has evolved their system, is there any reason to feel increased optimism about their chances to defeat a defense like that? Because for Utah this year, might not be the clippers that you have to get through. It might have to be Golden State and Draymond Green in their defense, which is on an even higher level. So is there any thoughts you have on that, Gibson?

Yeah, so the clippers let me know, we talk about they switched. They didn't always switch. Sometimes they play Zubotch in the secondary, Go Bear a minute to try to match that and keep big on big. Because coaches freak out about rebounding. Like, it's just natural. Like, NBA, high school, it doesn't matter. We always are concerned about rebounding the ball,

especially defensive rebounding. But the big thing, is when they switched, they were just daring Gobert to try and post up. Like they're begging him to post up because that takes the ball out of everybody else's hands. Then what they would do is, let's say, they switch a weaker defender like Conard

onto Mitchell. Sometimes they're throwing blitzes at them, so they go to switch the blitz scheme. So they would switch it and then blitz from the next guy over and then they already getting rotations, but they're not worried about the rotations of Gobert sealing it or posting up because they're wanting that, they're basically baiting them to doing that.

what's going to happen is also with jazz haven't really been fully healthy in a playoff series right I mean like I think Conley missed two games you know 1920 and then Conley missed five games last year so Mitchell was butt banged up so I'd like to see them fully healthy before we can kind of say they're definitely

not you know this team but also at the same time it's like the simplified system is based off a spread pick and roll so unless you have answers for that switching you're in the same place you just were one of the thoughts that I have on my mind with them is the idea of defensive diversity, the ability to play different styles and different systems

with Gobert this season, he's defended 1,141 pick and rolls according to Second Spectrum. He's switched only 33 times. He's blitzed or showed in the pick and roll only eight times. And understandably so. Utah is better than anybody when Gobert is dropping towards the paint or even, you know, staying a little bit closer to the ball screen. So they don't do that. should they though in the name of experimentation and versatility in preparation for the playoffs

because there might come a time where maybe what you usually do isn't always working we saw Milwaukee last year they experimented with switching on defense all season long increasingly do it more and more each quarter of the season and that paid dividends for them in the playoffs should Utah is Utah missing opportunities to do that during the regular season in preparation for the playoffs possibly but I think there's a difference between like a drop coverage in terms of you're in the paint, right, where you definitely allow pull-ups. Or if you start with maybe a hand on the hip almost at the level, then as the plate progresses,

you are backing up at the same time, the guards dribbling towards you. So I don't know, obviously, the deep drop versus maybe like an up-to-touch coverage scheme could be different. The Jazz had been doing that a little more where he'll inch up higher and higher. But it's definitely something like, I don't know why they wouldn't experiment with just straight up switching him and just see what happens, right? Even against bad teams, I would do it against the best team. I would just find the best offense you're going to play in the next 10 games,

switch as much as you possibly can, and just see what happens. I mean, they have the best offense. I understand coaches have their systems. They stick with it. They're winning regular season games. They're fighting for playoff positions and seating. But realistically, they're not going to catch the Warriors and Sons right now, probably in terms of the pace that they're on.

I think those two teams are probably better and more consistent than the jazz. So why not just try. like what's what's the downside and then even i think you mentioned it before when we talk about rudy gay at center right playing more small ball trying to figure that out i think i mean you you talk about that like why don't do that more and i think with with utah one of the ideas i mentioned on ryan ricillow's podcast earlier this week was the idea of trading some offense for some defense maybe a bogdanovitch for jeremy grant type of thing maybe try to find a way to get a fad young from san antonio who does want out of there um so you know

for Utah, I think there's maybe some moves that they can make around the edges to give themselves more versatility with the types of lineups they put on the floor. With them, do you feel like that they have the personnel to do that already? Or are there further changes

that need to happen? I think the issue isn't really necessarily playing downsizing. It's, and even last year in the playoffs, like the point of attack defense just wasn't good enough. So even if Gobert was the help, you know, the help defender, they were just getting blown by. So, you know, the issue isn't necessarily playing.

All those guys. Yeah, like Clarkson. Like, like, like those guys are very good offensive players. But like the one-on-one defense, like if you can't defend the ball one-on-one, I don't care what defense you're going to play behind it. Like you're just your offense or your defensive system is going to get ruined by their team's offense. I feel like sometimes that Utah is just stuck in doing what, what they always do.

And that has its benefits. They're an unbelievable regular season team. as you said, they're fighting for seating, get home court, all that good stuff that sets you up nicely for the playoffs. But also, I mean, sometimes trying something new is what you're going to need to do, especially if it's against a team like the goal and say Warriors. And I don't blame the jazz staff for doing the same thing. Like you are, he has to win, Quinn Snyder and staff have to win games.

Why not? Why not? Why not? Because it's, I mean, but, but like, if you, you're going to lose your, eventually you're going to lose your job. If you lose again in the playoffs, of a six year or a row, possibly. Eventually, eventually they got new ownership. Danny Ains just got brought in there.

At some point, they're going to be like, you know what? Maybe we need a change or bring on something fresh. So, all right, but so if you're Quinn Snyder, what do you do in his shoes? What is your, I mean, you can try those, those things. Why not experiment? You're going to still win games. I don't disagree. I'm just saying from his point of view, from the coaching status point of view, you, maybe you go

to own, maybe he went to ownership in last last off season. He said, hey, look, we want to play small ball. And the ownership is like, cool, here's Rudy Gay. And he's like, well, I don't want that. You know what I mean? Like, that could be the solution is, okay, well, I didn't want him. We don't really have a good small ball option. I don't feel comfortable with this.

I need to win games. But the ownership said they wanted to try to get a top two seed. We don't know what they said there or not. So, you know, yeah, you can blame them. But also at the same time, it's like, it's a collective. Like the jazz organization has watched them fail in the past two playoffs. And one of the solutions that they need to do was play more small or more skilled in small ball. right? Like they don't have a small ball five that they could throw out even for five minutes that I like,

Rudy Gay is not a small ball five. Let's just be honest, right? Like, he's not. He's too undersized for that rule. It's just we're trying to make that happen because that's their current roster construction. So if, if Quinn Snyder said, look, we want to play small, we got to combat this, well, they sign white side. So clearly that either don't want to or there's a disconnect between the coaching staff and ownership, which we'll never know. So at the end of the day, their roster, currently isn't constructed to play in small ball five. They're going to live with what they have. And even in in season trade,

probably will not fix that problem. Let's talk about Utah's opponent on Wednesday night. That's the Portland Trailblazers. Let's get into their style of defense and whether there's any saving their season. I mean, their challenges this year have been well chronicled as a team below 500. And like many teams, they're having their own issues.

C.J. McCollum is still out with the collapse long. Chauncey Billups, their head coach is in protocols now. Billups installed a far different defensive scheme than what Portland has been used to in the past under Terry Stott's when they played a more conservative drop coverage scheme typically. This year, Portland is playing an aggressive pick and roll defense with blitzing and showing hedging. They're blitzing 21 times per game. And since 2017, no other team has logged more than 15 blitzes or shows per game except for Jim Boylan's Bowles in 2019, 20, 20, with 33 per game that year. That was a crazy outlier with Boylan.

It wasn't a bad defense for Chicago, though. You had a video about that recently, like it is for Billups Blazers. They are 28th in points allowed when they blitz or show and pick and roll. Gibson, what the hell is Portland doing? They're playing aggressive and it's not working. And that's the problem. Is they're doing it more than anybody else like you highlighted?

And what they're doing is they're having the player defending the ball screen. Even if it's like a like-for-like guard scenario, have a hard hedge or a hard show, which means that player has to take two or three steps up the ball screen in ball screen defense and make the player go around them towards half court. That's the whole idea, is you want to make the ball handler go towards half court

so that way the player guarding him can recover and then you get back to the ball. The issue is NBA offenses are just too smart for this. Like they're just too smart. They know exactly how to attack it. It's been the same coverage since the early 2000s. College basketball, you can get away with it because the floor is smaller, you know, not a lot more shooting and spacing, self-creation.

But as soon as you do it in the NBA, you essentially take one of your better rim protectors, which, you know, you highlight that Nurkich is struggling and defending the rim, which, you know, he is. But he's the best on their team. So you're taking your best, you know, rim, rim defender, rim protector, taking them outside the three point line and then having the weak side rotations who are generally smaller on the trailblazers have to defend the rim or defend, you know, the four on three pass. It just doesn't work because even if, you know, I highlight this in the video, even if Dame, who's a good positional defender is helping in the corner, he's the low man tagging the role man.

They're just going to shoot over him. He's just too small at the rim. So they're doing it the most and they're the worst at it. And it just hasn't worked so far. And we're to the point now where if you don't change it now, like you're going to be in trouble for the rest of the season. So how much can changing it help, though? because with Portland, their 28th when they blitzers show and pick and rolls,

they're 26th when they switch, their 29th when they drop. How much of this is a personnel issue? How much of it is a, maybe an alignment issue? You mentioned having smaller defenders in those situations where they have to play four on three. Is there a solution here based off the personnel

that they currently have, or is this just, you know, all about making roster changes in order to have the ability to do something different or to do what you already do better? I think it's both. I mean, definitely the roster construction is not set up to be a top 10 defense. Like, it just isn't. And that will never be. But it doesn't mean you can't be an average defensive team with the offense they have. If you're an average defensive team,

then you're going to go to the playoffs. Like, that's just what it is for the trailblazers. The problem is, is you have to set up a defensive system. When you look at your roster, you have to go, okay, what is our strengths? Like, what is the strength of this roster? Okay, right now on defense, it's probably Nirkich and Covington are maybe the two better defenders. Covington hasn't been great, but he can be as a help side defender. He can be a good defender. We've seen it in the past. So you have to look at what the roster is and say, okay, here's the best way to maximize this team on defense.

And there's no way that you could look at that and think hedging was the answer. Like, it just doesn't make any logical sense. Like, you know, you can take Draymond Green and hedge with him and you can trap with him because he's going to give effort. He's going to communicate. He's going to work every single possession to get back in the play. Nurkich isn't fast. He's not agile. He's not quick. So when he hedges, he's just going to lumber back to the role man. So you're taking all of your protection at the rim and getting him out. Whereas if you go to maybe like an ice type screen defense, ball screen defense, you have the player guarding the ball doesn't get picked off. So the point

card isn't just running downhill at Nerkich. He's not just in ultimate drop coverage where he's just waiting to get, you know, a layup scored on him or blown by at the rim. You maybe nullify some of the weaknesses and just try to play as much strength as you possibly can. But if you look at the team and go, oh, yeah, we can play aggressive. Like, it just isn't suited for that. If you play a lineup, let's say their best lineup is, you know, Simons, McCollum,

Dame, Nirk, and Covington, like, which I think is probably their best lineup. I mean, I'm not really sure. Maybe Powell in there instead of Simon. Yeah, maybe Powell. some type of, you know, configuration like that. Yeah, let's say Powell and for Simons. And you take those five. Also, you can't forget my boy Larry Nance, Jr. either.

Yeah, I know. I can't forget him. I'm a cast fan, man. I'm all about some Larry Nance. But if you take those five, right, let's say Simons or, you know, Powell, whoever's in there, you can't look at that and say, okay, yeah, Damon C.J. are going to be great off-ball rotational defenders or even great on-ball defenders to fight back over the hedge. They're not. They're who they are.

Like, they're not going to be in that position. position. So Covington might be, Powell might be, but Nirkich, though. So three out of five are not going to be in great recovery mode and effort every possession. So running an aggressive defense means you're taking three out of your five players and just basically playing four on two. Like, good luck. How about Larry Nance, Jr., though? Because, I mean, he's had possessions with Cleveland in the past where he was like running around with Duncan Robinson through screens. If they shuffle the pieces. Like let's say C.J. McCollum does get dealt before the trade deadline. And let's say he gets dealt for a guy who can help the offense a little bit, but he's really a big forward,

a defender, a guy who can defend multiple positions, a la Ben Simmons, but not necessarily him. I mean, not necessarily Ben Simmons, but Ben Simmons. And if you get Powell at the two instead of the three where he's undersized, you get Dame in the back court, you get Nurkich at center. If you have that big wing forward defender with Nance and Little and Simons. I mean, suddenly I feel like the team just makes sense

more in terms of roster configuration and with what you can do than what you can do defensively, which is the main problem for this team. It's not going to be offense. It's defense. That's the number one issue here. Are they like a simple move away

from, you know, shuffling the pieces in a way that can help them a lot? I mean, if we are still hedging the ball screen defense, there's no point making, no matter what move you make, it just isn't going to,

in my opinion, it's just not going to work. If you're playing at the level, if you're playing a little bit higher, like that, that can work. I think the biggest thing is, when you look at Nance,

you have a very good athlete who is not the best at getting through ball screens, right? Like when you pick off some of the bigger guys, even Dremont, like you put him in ball screen defense, he just struggles at it. If you played him at the five,

now I'm on board with that. Like, let's play him at the five, switch it, hedge it, then you can do that. And I think having a different system for different locations is important too. So like icing sideball screens, dropping middle, like that can work. But at the end of the day, there are just, you'll never be a top 10 defense, which is what it requires to make a deep playoff run. They'll never get there because Dame just isn't that level of defender.

I don't think your best offensive lineup won't be your best defensive lineup. So now you're shuffling, even if you're shuffling, even if you deal CJ, even you put Simons on, even Powell on, like your best offensive lineup will now not be as good as your best defensive lineup.

And when that's the case, you have a limit on what you can do. So yeah, you can tweak, Nancy, you can tweak, you can tweak, you know, the lineup construction.

But at the end of the day, it just is an overall, it's just a bit more problematic. Portland's in a tough spot, man. I mean, I like, it's for off. You make the playoffs eight years in a row.

They've had some unbelievable moments over the years. And winning a championship isn't everything. It's, it's not everything. It should be the number of one goal for all 30 franchises in my opinion. I think it's a shame that for some franchises, it's not. For some, it's about just getting into the playoffs and getting that postseason revenue. I think that's a disservice and a slap in a face to fans who invest time and money into these teams and love and hard into it. But for all 30 teams, the goal needs to be winning a championship. And with Portland, like dames all in, man. like he he wants to win in Portland he's giving them time despite all the crap that's happened this past year with this team and all they've been through

I just I just don't know if I see the path there anymore when we just talked about Utah a little bit ago I mean we didn't talk about Phoenix today we didn't talk about Golden State who in my opinion are the top two teams in the Western Conference especially Golden State I just don't see where the path is for Golden State for Portland to catch those teams and not to mention if the Lakers get it right, if the clippers get Kauai back, as the Grizzlies get better over the years to come, if some of these young teams, if New Orleans gets Zion back,

if he's able to stay healthy, there's so many other teams in the West that feel like they're on the rise, and that could be really good, really, really soon. Even San Antonio has so many good young players. I mean, I just, I just feel like with Portland, they're just kind of stuck.

And I'm not sure, the path is for them to get over the hump. Do you have any hope for them to reach the pinnacle with Damien Lillard? Not the pinnacle, but I do have hope that they will at least make some sort of playoff noise. And I mean, because I think they're better than the record shows. I don't think there's like Golden State, Phoenix, Utah are pretty clear the top, top teams in the West. But when it comes to the playoff, though, like the Lakers are a problem. I know they're really hard to watch.

I watch them. It's very difficult to get through a game right now. But like when you've watched, when you get to the playoffs and you're going against the Jazz and it's Lakers versus Jazz in the second round. And LeBron looks across the court and he laughs at every jazz defender, every possession. Like there's no answer that Utah has for LeBron one-on-one right now.

Like, yeah, you can throw a Bogdanovich, Adam, Gant, whatever. Like, LeBron does not care about that. Same thing for the Sons. I don't think he cares about anybody on the Sons. Sons opposed different problems. But what I'm saying is I think. LeBron individually, you're saying like he's not worried about some of those guys. He doesn't care about it.

Anthony Davis hasn't been great, then looks rough. Yeah, sure. Guess what? Like, he's still a nightmare on the defensive end at the five. So what I'm saying is outside of that, like the trailblazers have just as much a chance as anybody this year to be a five seed, six seed to get in the playoffs and make some noise. Like I don't want to see Damien Liller come off a ball screen in the playoffs.

Like, again, if I'm playing defense, like that's just, will they, will they, winning and compete for a title? No, probably not. Because the roster moves and the way it's set up right now, no. But I don't think that's like, we focus on championships and rightfully so. But at the same time, is like, if Dame elevates this roster to a second round playoffs, like I think that's a win for the Portland Trail players this season. I'm with you there, Gibson. I mean, you're speaking about the West right now as we record, the Clippers are the five seed. they're only up five and a half games on New Orleans, the 14 seed. There's only five and a half games of separation between five and 14 right now in the NBA.

It's flat at this point. And that's why for the Lakers struggles thus far this season as a team that's hovering around 500, they could still easily get up to four. Memphis, are they going to be able to sustain what they're doing so far this year? Are they going to hold on to that? I mean, any of these teams could get up to four right now. And I think, you know, that's why with like over the weekend after the Christmas Day loss for the Lakers to the Nets, there was some talk about could the Lakers miss the playoffs. They're not going to miss the playoffs. They're just not going to miss the players. In fact, they could get home court in the playoffs. Because after the top three, Golden State, Phoenix, and Utah, I'd have them in the order that they are now in terms of how I consider them a threat to win it all. To me, I think Golden State is on a level of their own. Phoenix and Utah are pretty close for me. after those three in the West,

I don't know, man. I mean, we'll see how this works out over the course of the year. Not to mention Paul George is out for, what, four weeks now with, and it could be more, you know, you don't know, setbacks injuries. And then also COVID stuff, right? Like, you know, let's say Memphis is on, I mean, they play well without jaw, but like, let's say COVID hits a couple of these teams and all of a sudden they go from from fourth to eighth to ninth, you know, and then all of a sudden it just shuffles around.

And so there's a lot of variables and there's a lot of time, a lot of basketball to be played. But at the end of the day, like, I think it's, there's four teams in the West, and I don't think anybody else after that really matters. And it sucks because the Clippers, in my opinion, were a Kauai back away from contending again. Nuggets were a Jamal back until, you know, Porter Jr. goes out. So there was some chances, but now it's like Portland has to look around and be like,

yeah, we can be the fifth seed, four seat. Like, why not, you know? Let's talk about the Clippers. You mentioned them in passing there. They don't have Paul George right now. They play the Celtics on Wednesday night. this is another team that's trying to get over the hump. They hope to get Kauai Leonard back in April when it will be nine months removed since his

surgery on his torn ACL. The Clippers just posted an image on Twitter over the weekend of Kauai working out, getting fans excited, seeing him, you know? Sure, sure. Hey, Paul George out. Here's an image of Kauai looking out. Kauai did say before the season that he signed the long-term deal that he did because it gives him a chance to come.

back. He said if he signed the one-on-one extension, he would have opted out after the season, then signed the five-year max contract. So he took a little bit less money with more financial security long term in order to get it locked up, but also because he might come back. There's a chance he comes back. We know Paul George should come back at some point. The clipers are sliding right now as losers of five of their last six games. Paul George is out. Obviously, no Kauai Leonard, but is there any reason for them to be buyers ahead of the deadline with the hope of getting Kauai back in April? I think the biggest thing for the Clippers is their defense.

You know, like having a top five defense throughout this whole season without Kauai. Like that's crazy impressive. And also the fact that they're still playing Eric Bledsoe a lot. So like, like, like I hate to say it. He hasn't ruined the team. Yeah. He hasn't ruined him. Like he doesn't need to play, but like he hasn't.

he hasn't torpedoed the team yet. Yes, yet. Yet is doing a lot of work there. I'm just, I mean, I'm just saying, like, he's, he is, like, I was just looking at, like, their lineups in, like, Bletso is just like, it's one of the worst lineups in the league. But if you just take him out, it becomes one of the best lineups in the league. And so, like, when it comes to pick and roll scoring, I looked it up. He's 99th out of 103 players in pick and roll scoring.

And Jalen Suggs is at 0.50 points per possession. last, just for reference, which Eric Blitzer was just a little bit above that. A little bit better than a rookie who has played like eight games. Right. Like who is going to get a lot better and I have faith in. But like you just watch like some of these

Bledso lineups. You're like, we don't need to do this. Like he's making like $19 million a year. Like we don't need to do this, Clippers. I mean, now you have to because you're kind of stuck with it. But like if you if they just made that simple change where it's just less Bledso overall, like their offense goes from, you know, 25th to

the 15th immediately and they become much, much better. But I think they're in a hard place because, so their offensive system is going to be built around Kauai and Paul George, right? Their elite scoring in pick and roll and ISO is just, it's surrounding that. So like with the Warriors had their gap year, right, when they had fun to experiment with some of the rookies and they got everybody ingrained in their system. Like, this is their system. This is what we're running.

When they come back, when Steph and Clay come back and Dre, you know, cares, this is the system we're running. So when everybody comes, now they're like, oh, this is the system we're running. Got it. Right? The rookies, the young guys all know it. Well, when your system is Kauai and Paul George Schutt, how do you develop guys for that system when they have this freedom right now when these guys get back to be able to fit around

those guys? It's just a hard place to be in. So what you hope is you hope Terrence, man, can step up and Brandon Boston Jr. steps in and Hartnstein recovers and gets back. and can kind of fit his way. But it's just a hard place to be in because you want to develop these guys to have a larger role.

But then when it matters, you two best guys, like, their role is going to be spot up shooters or cutters. You know, so it's just a difficult place for them to be right now. That's a great point with the Clippers.

I mean, you know, speaking theoretically, Paul George comes back, continues excelling. Kaui Leonard comes back in a week before the playoffs and plays a handful of games

on limited minutes. And then you get a first round, matchup against the Phoenix Suns. You know? I mean, it's just, it's just a lot to ask for to expect the clippers. Like, this does seem like another buy year for them as well, not having Kauai the entire season, which is a shame because, I mean, you tweeted this out. You had a, I mean, it's probably from what I can remember, the most viral, like, analysis video that I can remember on Twitter or Instagram that's ever been posted on during the regular

season. Like usually, while clips are like big dunks, you know, or a three point shot. But you posted a video. He said, Ty Lou shows again why he is one of the best exes and those coaches in the NBA. Nasty ATO counter. This was posted on December 7th.

Got over 2,000 retweets, how it's the highlights, put it on Instagram, and there were people commenting saying, more of this, more deep analysis. I bring this all up to say that it's a shame that Ty Lou doesn't necessarily have a championship,

roster here because he's such a great X's and O's coach. As you outlined in that video and you have with all the work you've been doing, did it surprise you with that clip that it went as viral as it did? Yeah, yeah. I knew it was going to be a good one. Like, when, for Twitter, for sure. Like, I knew,

you know, when I was, when I watched it live, I was like, this is going to be great, you know? And I can kind of tell, we know what things are going to do well. I didn't think it would be this, do this well, like, you know, like where, you know, like how's the highlights posted and stuff, which was awesome that, um, this the type of analysis that I do is more like coaching tech, you know, technical.

It's amazing, Gibson, what you do. And you break it down, like, in a way that makes it easily digestible for idiots like me to understand. I learn my lesson. I have a rule now. I ask my wife, like, do you understand this? And she says, yes. I'm like, cool, I'll post this. And I'm like, if you understand, she says, no, I'm like, I've got to retool, you know, the way I'm saying, you're phrasing it. And then also, I coach high school basketball. So I'm like, all right, Well, I got to teach these children, like these basketball concepts, right? Like, you know, we have two freshmen on the team this year. And like, well, these guys are like, they don't understand how the world works yet.

Like, they can barely get to class. How are they going to know what a ghost screen in 45 action is? So that has helped for sure simplifying it. And Ty Lou has been since his Cleveland day is one of the best tweakers and X's and those guys and adjustments, you know, whether it's taking out Zubach against the Mavs and going small, keeping Zubotia. He just was always tinkering and tweaking, even in regular season games, to be one of the best coaches in the NBA.

What do you like about coaching? I love, like, first I love the relationships. Honestly, that's my number one thing is, is, you know, I got a text from one of my former students who's in Copenhagen studying over a broad his senior year. He texted me and said, hey, I want to meet up over Christmas break. I just want you to know, like, your passion and energy changed my life. Like, stuff like that is why you do it.

You know, it's the relationship. It's seeing a kid go from, you know, Trey Murphy, from the Pelicans. I coached him in high school, right? So I coached him when I first met him, he was six, his junior year, before junior year, six one, one, hundred fifty five pounds, like tiny, right? He's now like six, nine, two, twenty-five, and in the NBA.

He went from basically scoring ten points a game, his junior year, just scoring 30 points a game. Like, he, I watched him go from, nobody knew who he was, nobody cared about him for a second. At his lowest moments, like, we were able, to bond. I watched him going from that to be a man, like watching where he is now and how hard he worked. Like that type of energy and passion and like enthusiasm for the game of basketball is why I coach. And then also the X's nose, the chess match figuring out what they're doing.

We had a competition. Right. Yeah. Like we had a game today. And, and they, they called out one of, we ran one of our plays. They called out what they thought. They called out flex, right? Which is one of the plays we run horns flex. They called it out, right? They're yelling flex, flex, flex, and we ran our counter, which was an ISO and got right to the room for a layup. I just love doing stuff like that. You think when you know what's going on and you have no idea. That just gets me jacked up. But at the end of the day, it's the kids. It's my high school coaches impacted me. I want to impact these young kids and just show them like, this is how you go about life. Like this is basketball, this is life. Like hard work, dedication, focus will take you wherever you think.

think you want to go. What's the best thing you've learned from a coach? You don't necessarily have to give their name in college or NBA. But what's like something that sticks in your mind? So the best thing I've ever learned from Cody Topper, former Phoenix Sun's assistant. Now he's with the Memphis Tigers in college basketball. He's assistant there. He told me with what a staff he's part of. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, he got to he got to work with some of the best minds in basketball and he's still doing it. And so I'm happy to call him him somebody that I can I can reach out. to and he's done a lot teaching me and like give me information and we exchange film which has been really, really cool and gracious on his part, you know, because he's a college coach,

he doesn't have to do any of that. But he told me the best teams own the play after the play, right? So what happens when everything breaks down? What, like, what is your team's core philosophy offensively and defensively? The best teams ever own that scenario. Like you think about the warriors, they live in chaos, right? They thrive off of it. where other teams, they don't want any part of it, right? So the best teams own the play after the play. How much does this relate to the jazz? A lot.

Yeah. Because that's, I mean, he kind of took it from Kikoskov, who was on the jazz staff. And he basically kind of, kind of, I don't know, had an influence on, I think, on Quinn Snyder and his staff. And then obviously, Cody took it to with him. He's with the sons with Koskoff. Now he takes it now. But yeah, I think it relates to. a lot of these teams, frankly, like good and bad, right?

Like you see the Celtics, they don't really own the plan for their play in a good way. Warriors do. So that's the difference. Every team is in chaos right now, Gibson, with the COVID health and safety protocols. Right now, I mean, so many players across the league and coaches, for that matter, are in the protocols. What's your assessment of what's going on right now and how teams are operating, considering the circumstances? Yeah, I think this is one of the very specific times where culture, scouting, knowing your team and having a system really comes into play. I was watching Moneyball the other day,

and that whole movie and story is designed around finding, you know, the players who are going to give you the most for their money, right? Well, it's the same thing kind of in the NBA right now. Like, can you identify players that fit your system and that you can plug in and they won't miss a step, right? Like the Warriors just had Quindari-Weatherspoon play against the Phoenix Suns and give great minutes, in my opinion. Kaminga is starting to really shape an and take form and learning what he's doing. So the best teams right now are able to continue to get better. You know, like the Warriors were missing,

I think, like three starters and at least five rotation players against the best healthy Phoenix Suns, and we're still able to win with Steph Curry struggling from three. Otto Porter under the radar free agent signing. It all happened back during the summer, not even today. Yep. And then, but they've been playing a long game with this, right? We mentioned their gap year in 1920 and when they basically had Jordan Poole and they had Wiggins,

and they had all these guys in their system. Even Gary Payton was in their system before this. And they basically said, here's how we're going to play. Here's how you're going to fit in. Here's what we want you to do every single time. And so you can see, oh, okay, this makes sense why they're still able to do this. Clay Thompson, their second best player hasn't touched a ball this year on an NBA floor when it matters. And they're the best team in the NBA right now, right?

I read Gridiron Genius by Michael Lombardi, talking about a big focus that book was his time with Belichick and the Patriots. And he talked about their process and how they identified all of these players they could get in for cheap, they could get them in because they weren't wanted anywhere else. Like Gary Payton was not wanted by a lot of these other teams. And all of a sudden, everybody's like, how is he this good? It's like, well, he's never been this good.

He just fits perfectly and the warriors know what they're doing. They know how to use him. They know exactly how to do it and why they're doing it. that's why they're the best man. They can operate in chaos and they create culture and structure that everybody must conform to and adapt to in their own way. And they also allow players to be who they are and empower them. Nobody's better than the Warriors right now. I mean, to me, they are the favorite, the favorite in the NBA.

Would you agree with that? Are they the favorite number one? I don't think it's even close. Not even close. Not even close. Because here's the thing, right? Even Milwaukee, Brooklyn, Brooklyn with Kyrie, not even close still? No, no. Brooklyn, I don't trust at all.

I just don't. Like, their defense is not good enough, unfortunately. I would love to see that series. It would be great. But the problem with Milwaukee is they're giving up like 48% of their shots on defense from three. Like, they're going to have to change their defensive philosophy to play just the Warriors. Just like last year, because they had to integrate switching. This year, they might have to change it up again.

So that's, I'm curious. I don't think the Warriors will have an answer for you. Janus, but I don't think they care. Like, like, they're going to win the math battle regardless because they're bringing other guys back. I can't wait until Clay's back. I'm so excited. I can't wait. Gibson, thank you so much for joining today.

Yeah, thanks for having me on, man. Really appreciate it. Thank you again to Gibson Piper from Half Court Hoops for joining the Void. And thank you to our producer, Jesse Lopez, for putting the show together. You can watch a portion of this podcast on the Ringers YouTube page and all of our social media channels and mine at Kevin O'Connor

NBA. I'll be back next. Tuesday with Chris Vernon with another episode of the mismatch. There will be no Friday show again this week because it's New Year's Eve, but we will be back next Tuesday with another episode of the mismatch. And I'll be back again next Wednesday with another episode of The Void. I hope you all have a very, very happy new year. Thank you so much for listening to the mismatch feed this entire year. Thank you for listening to The Void. Thank you for consuming all of our content at the ringer.com and the Ringer podcast network. the world to me. I hope you have a happy new year. Please be safe out there. Thank you again for listening. I hope you have a fun day.