The Mismatch - Why the Lakers Owe LeBron Nothing, Plus the NBA Halfway Point Check-In

Episode Date: January 10, 2023

Verno and KOC begin by discussing Kevin Durant’s injury and debate whether the Nets can stay afloat without him (02:05). While the Nets are preparing to play without KD, the Warriors are getting ready to welcome back Steph Curry (10:55). The guys also discuss the Lakers' failures in building the roster around LeBron James and debate the team's options going forward (16:31). After Verno lists the six teams from each conference that he believes can compete for a title this year, the guys take a look at the current odds for MVP, Sixth Man of the Year, and more (39:30). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from the Minnesota Timberwolves. It's a new year and I have a new podcast here at the Ringer, Offguard, hosted by me and my guy, Pasha Higigi. Austin and I go way back and talk so much hoop already that we figure those time to fire up the mics and let you in on all of these conversations. Every week, Pasha and I will hit on the biggest stories happening in the league.

And get Austin's perspective of someone currently hooping in the NBA. Tap into Offguard every Friday on the Ringer NBA show feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Comber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Colns, Kevin O'Keeleon, Kevin O'Keeland, Kevin O'Kin'clock. I'm good. We're kind of to the exact midway point of the season. Most every team has played either 40 or 41 games.

Does it feel like the season is halfway over? Does it feel like we've played more than that or less than that? I don't know, man. Time is, what is it, a flat circle? Time is a flat circle. It feels like it's been, you know, it's still 2019. It feels like it's, you know, been a lifetime ago. So I don't know, but I don't know about since October.

It all feels weird. As we now look towards the second half of the season, Unfortunately, injury news is the biggest and kind of how it will impact the second half of the season. Also, maybe more importantly, how it's going to impact the trade deadline and if it does inform the decisions that some of these teams will be making. The first is a possible MVP, certainly an MVP candidate in Kevin Durant. Kevin Durant It's got a herd MCO Now they're saying it's going to be a month,

maybe more, before he is able to play basketball again. And that Brooklyn Nets team losing Kevin Durant for a month, they had been the best team in the entire NBA for now quite a while and had moved themselves all the way up towards the very top of the Eastern Conference standings. And now they're going to be without Durant for over a month.

And this is really going to test the depth. It's going to be a lot of pressure on Kyrie Irving, a lot of pressure on Jacques Vaughn in order to just kind of hold down the fort because we've seen this go a couple of different ways. We've seen Steph Curry go out and they've been able to hold down. the fort and do even better than we expected in Golden State. We've seen Devin Booker go out and the whole thing go to hell in a handbasket in Phoenix. And so what do you think?

Are the nets going to be able to stay afloat in the time that Durant is at? When I say stay afloat, like stay, even if you're a couple games under 500, that's okay. Are they going to be able to win enough games over the course of the next? month or possibly more to kind of keep their standing where they might not have to play in a play in or you think they're in deep trouble. The nets can stay afloat. I believe they will. I mean, everything we've talked about really the past what, you know, two-ish months, you know, month and a half or so when the nets have been on this, you know, amazing run. Pretty much ever since Jock Vaughn took over, Kyrie Irving returned. We've talked about how, you know, Nick Claxton

is one of their defensive enforcers. The return of T.J. Warren, the scoring spark he provides off the bench. Royce O'Neill, 3&D, right? Like Utah Watanabe, you know, one of the best shooters in all of basketball. We've talked so much about different guys on the team in addition to Kevin Durant putting up MVP-style numbers.

So, I mean, they've been a dominant force at their best, nearly a plus-11 net rating during this real stretch with Kevin Durant on the floor. They've only been a minus two with KD off the floor. floor. Granted, now it's, you know, you're going to worry about what happens when a T.J. Warren's off the floor. There's more responsibility for a guy like him. But I think, I think they have enough talent and enough pieces, enough weapons to go to, you know, maybe instead of Kevin Durant getting 20 shots, it's, you know, an uptick for, you know, Curry or

Harris or Mills getting some of those D.HOs and shots off of those handoff sessions. So granted, they'll be worse, obviously without Kevin Durant, both on offense and on defense. They have a lot of other guys who can absorb opportunity, namely T.J. Warren being the guy who's going to have to step up a lot here and take on a bigger scoring load. Yeah, and it's a lot for him to do that after he had not played basketball in, you know, few seasons. We had not seen T.J. Warren. He has been good recently. The two things I would worry about is all the, beyond the 30 points and the shooting at this crazy efficiency and all the things, Duran has been beyond spectacular. this year.

All the counting numbers, like that energy effort, all that stuff that is coming from him on the court, the gang rebounding and the defending hard and like that stuff he has played in many cases on the defensive end and on the glass as an energy type player. and we've talked about this so many times. Him and Claxton together, the shoplock and then length, the versatility, the switching. They're amazing. And as the, with any of the energy players, it's like when that guy is working that hard, when that guy is playing that hard, then it is going to have a profound effect on everybody else

because they're going, who am I to not play like that if this guy is playing like that? And I think you're seeing that around the league with a lot of the best play. do, you'll see Yokic diving on the floor for loose balls and you, like, they, they have this profound effect on the rest of their team. So losing that would be something that's not something that will necessarily show up, even though the box score can be dismal without him. That and how they react, like, who's that guy now? Who's that leader that they play off of? Because the second thing that would worry me is we're back to Kyrie Irving's your best player. And I do think that you are much better suited for Kyrie Irving to be your second best player.

And we'll see. We'll see. I mean, I just don't know. Like, it's hard when a guy's not in there in the mix, I know Katie will be around. And I know Katie will be able to be on the bench and whatever. But game in, game out, that kind of. I'm that guy. I speak up.

Me and the coach are in lockstep. Not having that. I'll be fascinated to see which way this goes with them. I don't think it'll be a disaster like the Phoenix thing. But I'm not convinced that they're not going to take a free fall down the standings. One guy, we haven't mentioned the name Ben Simmons. Don't want him leading me either. Well, just bringing up the name now.

I mean, yeah, yeah, can he do more? Yeah, what more can we expect right now? He has trended up.

Can they give him a dramatic uptick in his usage, you know, more like, you know, carry the load what he had in Philadelphia.

I wonder if we could see something like that because this is going to have to be by committee, you know, it's going to have to be more T.J. Warren. It's going to have to be more

Seth Curry, more, you know, Ben Simmons and Joe Harris, you know, maybe more a couple more spot up threes for Watanavi per game,

right? Like it's going to have to be a by committee approach without Kevin Rand over this month plus. You know, Ben Simmons, you know, this is an opportunity for him to totally restore his value and show that he can still carry a heavier load when necessary. And the truth is, they've got better talent than a lot of the teams that have had to deal with this before.

They've got players. You know, I mean, those are guys that contribute and guys that can play. And so I don't think it'll be like, you know, like Dallas can't win a game when Luca doesn't play. Phoenix is dying on the vine with Booker out. I don't think it's going to be like that. I don't think it's going to be that fredgeful because they've got good players. But I really don't know.

I think they'll probably be able to hold down the fort enough to not free fall. The big thing is you just don't want to be in that play yet. And are there, you know, by the time Durant comes back, how many teams have passed them up. And the other thing that sucks is, They were playing amazing. They're playing like they're the best team in the NBA, and they lose the guy for a month.

He was playing like the MVP of the league, and they lose him for a month. And then the other thing is, you know, because of the years, because of the prior injuries, even after the month or however long he's out, do you get that KD? They're going to be cautious for sure, right?

It's very interesting with the reporting around, too. They say typically when he's had this injury in the past, it's been six weeks. Adrian Wojanozky has been the one saying it's more like closer to a month. So I wonder like maybe will it, is it actually so minor, you know,

Woj is spot on here that it will be a month and he'll be right back to being Kevin Durant that we just saw an MVP candidate prior to this injury or, you know, will the Nets, you know, will it actually be a month but the Nets play at cautious that it becomes six or seven weeks? Because that could be the case too.

or maybe it's dependent on how they perform, right? Like, it could also be that as well, where if they feel like they need to get him back, Kevin Durant feels he needs to rush back. But if they're still like the four seed and within striking distance of, you know, the one or the two seed and not like in danger of falling into the play in, maybe Kevin Durant decides to step back and say,

okay, you know, the team's flourishing right now without me. I can come back when I'm truly, genuinely 100% and be part of this playoff run to try to make a finals. All right, well, we got another guy that's going to be coming back, and that is Steph Curry. And this is a great example of a team that was able to hold down the fort until they got the guy back. And so couldn't have gotten any better.

I think there's six right now in the Western Conference. So they've actually moved up standings-wise. They're seven right now. Tied with six. Seven. They're percentage points behind the clippers. Okay. So they're right there.

And they were a playing team, I think, when he went out. And part of that is because other teams have lost, you know. Six and five without them. Six and five. And Utah has fallen, you know, a free fall record-wise. Yeah, good for them. It's great to get back at the Wemby conversation. It's good for that.

I don't think. I know. Maybe there was a moment in the first 20 games where we worried that they might not be. But with now, with the half of a season left, it certainly fears that that that It's going to be in the cards for Utah. The Warriors have done well, though, man, right? Like, you were spot on, Chris, when that injury happened, saying, like, other guys are going to step up and look what you can happen. And I was dead wrong about it.

Well, it's just for the greater good, you know, guys then feel like they have to share the ball. Like, there's not that guy to bail you out. and we're going to see if the Nets can do this, right? But Steph Curry, the luxury of having a guy like that is that you could just throw him the ball and it's like, all right, get us home. And when the other guys, none of which are superstars, then they have this feeling of, we have to do it as a collective or it's not going to get done. I need the next guy.

And sometimes that can dissipate when you, got the superstar because it's like, here's what we do. Like, this guy's, this guy's going to take care of business for us. Because it's defense that really led them to these wins. Like, their offense was bottom 10 in the league

over the stretch. It was not good. Their defense over the first four or five games or so was bad as well. But over the last seven games, when they've been five and two, they have the number four defensive rating in all of the NBA. It's been that effort and intensity and defense that has helped lead them to these wins.

Yeah, you find ways to win that don't encourage Step Curry. Yeah, exactly. And the other thing is they're still awesome at home. Like, that's been the case. Like, it doesn't even matter who's playing for them. They're awesome on their home floor. And that has remained. But he's going to come back and they've done a good job sticking in it and not having

some kind of terrible record while he was out. And it's good to see him back because. you know, I talked about this earlier in the year, Kev, about my level of disappointment in guys sitting out. And I don't know what to make of it all. Like, Durant was one of those guys that never sits out. He plays every night, and he gets hurt. And then we have all these other guys sitting out.

And it's like, here we are at the midway point of the season. And Curry's coming back. That's good. But we've lost Zion. We've lost KD. We've lost Deroza got hurt. last night we've lost Anthony Davis we've lost Devin Booker we've I mean

it's every night Andrew is a part of the game it's unfortunate there's been so many yeah and I'm surprising though it happens every year for sure but it seems like there are stars this year I mean we're talking about all-star starters probably probably all-star starters guys certainly would have been in the mix four of them that would have been in the conversation

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is 1800 gambler. com. And so, Steph's coming back. A.D. is going to try to ramp up, but he's a ways away. What does it matter

when you have Thomas Bryant? Thomas Bryant. I love watching that dude just run. Like, the effort he puts on the floor, the first Lakers basket of the game,

the other night, against the Kings. The King scored. They hit a two-pointer. And then after a make, Thomas Bryant just sprinted up the floor, full speed, got ahead of the entire Kings defense and got a wide open layup. And I thought that one little moment was indicative of who he's been his entire career. But the importance of what he's been bringing to the Lakers right now, he's not some defensive stopper, you know, a dominant paint protector like Anthony Davis, but at least he brings effort. And then on offense, the rim running, it's constant.

It's nonstop. You need to account for him if you're a defense and get back or else he'll beat you. So, I mean, it's been cool to see him doing that in the transition and the half court, all the tent of cutting and the screening, the hard rolling, the attacking the boards. He's just doing all the dirty work. Everything we're talking about that you need to do to make up for the loss of a star player, Thomas Bryant's bringing those qualities for the Lakers. And they've been good.

You know, they lost that game to Denver. LeBron's head out. but they had won five in a row, right? Up until that game. Did you see the pass Yokic made in that game? The pass where he got, it looked, Yokic drove underneath the basket, and it looked like he was going to, you know,

you know, loop the pass to the left corner three-point shooter, but instead his arm kind of kept, you know, roping around, pass one cutter, Michael Porter Jr., then to another cutter, Aaron Gordon. Like, Max Christie was inside the paint ready to go close out on the corner three-point shooter, But then Gordon just gets a wide open dunk It was like quarterback going through his options

You know looking off defenders You know to get an open man It was like it's a like you see Yok You make passes like this On an absolute nightly basis It's probably like his 30th best pass of the season But it was still unbelievable Still draw dropping still the only guy in basketball

Who makes plays like that Did you see that Chris? He is unbelievable to watch Unbelievable Yeah it was a beautiful pass So look, the Lakers have won some games. And so then it starts with the, oh, well, and AD is going to be ramping up. And, you know, Russ has accepted the bench roll and Thomas Bryant's been pretty good.

They got to get LeBron some help. And then they've got the headline. LeBron calls out the Lakers, whether that's what happened or not. That's like the headline that goes out everywhere, okay, about how, you know, basically they don't have a good enough team. And so they need to, you know, who cares about first round draft picks, even if they're in the future. They need to make the moves because the windows now, we've got to win now, whatever else.

And that's all fine, right? If you want to have that, if it feels that way, if people feel that way, that LeBron, that they should make win now moves, even if they do forego, of future assets, then so be it. But, and I don't know what you're going to say about this when I say this, I got to tell you, when I see the constant, let me clear. Rob Belenka, I do not think he's done a good job, okay?

I don't think he's done a good job. I don't think he's done a good job putting together that roster. and would I trust him to put together a team around LeBron James that is best suited for him? I think it stands to reason that the answer is probably no. I don't think it's that hard. You just find four shooters or if you're planning with him and AD, just find three guys that could space out the floor. I don't think it's rocket science to try to figure it out, but they've screwed it up.

That being said, this whole tournament, LeBron James into a victim of this circumstance makes me want to throw up. Bro, the roster is the roster because of LeBron James. He is not the victim of this. They've signed every effing person they, that Clutches had. Do you think that, like, they had KCP, they had Montrez, they had Tailing Horton Tucker, they had Ben McLemore, they had Kendrick Nunn, they had Juan Tiscano Anderson, they had Lonnie Walker, they had Anthony Davis, they have all of them.

Like, they went and literally got the owner of the wizard to trade them Russell Westbrook because he pressured them into that. Like, this whole, like, they need to get LeBron some guys. Like, they've just done a bad job. act like the roster isn't the roster because of LeBron James, and they just need to keep on getting rid of stuff that they would have in the future because they need to win right now. And he doesn't have good enough players around him.

Well, no shit. The reason you don't have good enough players around him is because you convinced the owner of the wizard to trade Russell Westbrook. You wanted that. The reason you don't have any other future assets and that first round pick is looked at as gold, is because you trade it all for Anthony Davis. Like, what are we doing here? Their whole situation is in part because of LeBron.

Let's not act like he's just a victim that sits there while the roster builds shit around him. Like, a lot of the shit is guys that are literally part of their agency. there's a reason that they got them. And it's year after year. Those guys are on the roster. So, I mean, do you think Lonnie Walker's there because he's the best fit with LeBron James and with Anthony Davis? Or do you think Lonnie Walker's there because he happens to be represented by the same people?

Do you think that Ben McClmore was there and literally couldn't get a job anywhere else in the league because he was a great fit? and because he was going to help them win a title, or because he was part of them? Do you think they held on to Talen Horton Tucker instead of moving him when he had some value? Because Taylor Norton Tucker was so great, and they really thought it was part of the future?

Or because they didn't want to move him because they were told, hey, don't move this guy. He's part of us, and we want to benefit from this. ridiculous contract extension that you'll probably stupidly sign him up to. So then when I see the whole like, well, the Lakers really owe it to LeBron to move their first round picks and move it. Like, what are we paying attention to? Let's stop acting like their management and people there have been acting unilaterally

this entire time and he's just some helpless victim to a crap roster. It makes me want to throw up, bro. truly like this martyrdom he's a victim of this LeBron pressuring Lakers bro all he's been doing is pressuring them for five years and look at what their roster looks like now at what point do you just say all right fine we're not gonna I'm sure he would have them

who could we find that's a clutch client he probably want them to trade their first round pick and somebody else and somebody else for Kelden Johnson because he's represented by clutch. If he could have his bidding. Like, I mean, come on. Let's stop acting like he hadn't had power. They've been doing what he wanted them to do.

The roster is the roster because of him. Not because he hadn't spoken up enough or that they've done goofy crap. They have been, their problem is that they allowed it to happen. And that was the price of doing business with LeBron. James. But he is a terrible general manager. Terrible.

Amen. Amen. Bravo. Wow. Chris Vernon. That was a heater right there. I agree with every word you said except for one thing. One thing you said right at the beginning. Rob Polenka has did a poor job building this roster. It's LeBron James

who has done a poor job building this roster. You nailed it at the end saying the mistake was allowing him to do it. The reason why that they had all of this talent to trade for Anthony Davis, all of this talent to make the Westbrook mistake, was because of the right decisions by the front office. Think about all the young guys that Polinka led front office has brought in over the years. Larry Nance, Josh Hart, your guy, Zubots, Ingram, Ball, Caruso, Kuzma, Thomas Bryant. Like, Thomas Bryant was there before. He was a Lakers pick. They have throughout the draft up top, in the middle,

The second round, nailed picks over and over and over again. Mo Wagner. Wagner, he's still playing right now in Orlando getting minutes. He's had a lot of hits, right? So I think for the Lakers right now, everything we're talking about here, yes, with LeBron James playing still at a top 10 level, Anthony Davis, if he were to theoretically return and be healthy from April, May, and if you'd hope June, then, yes, it's worth giving up the two first round

draft picks. Yes, it would be. But that's a huge hypothetical bear. And if you're the Lakers, in the back of your mind, you have to think to yourself past this season. You've got to do it. You have to because you could trade both of those picks, and then LeBron James could still say this off season, I want to owe.

He could still say that. Or maybe you just decide you're done with clutch, and you want to just build this the way you were prior with all those young guys and build to the draft and build organically inside the next free agent who's not going to control your entire front office. Maybe that's what the bus family and Rob Polinka are thinking that they want an out. And the out is retaining their draft picks for a more flexible future moving forward, where it could involve LeBron, where you use the three picks in the off season, because

if two becomes three, your 20, 23 first from the Pelicans becomes eligible to be dealt during the off season. So two picks becomes three picks, and you have more cap space. you have a future path with LeBron or without LeBron. And I wonder if that's where the Lakers are approaching this from, that they don't want to lock themselves in right now by making a deal and then having nothing for the future, whereas if they wait until the summer,

they have much more flexibility with or without them. I mean, he wanted all of this. If you want to talk about the guys that don't even matter, that we can talk about the guys that don't even matter. But in the end, he wanted Anthony. Davis and he wanted Russell Westbrook. E.D. was the right choice and

Russell Westbrook was not. They did not make those moves in spite of LeBron James. He wanted it. He wanted it and now he wants this. So you listen those times like what do you think they should be doing? Everything I just said about maintaining flexibility,

do you agree that they should not trade those picks before February, the deadline? Look, I don't really care what they do. But what do you think they should do? I would be, I would be tempted to make the most of this right now with LeBron and Anthony Davis. Again, so look, I am not being hypocritical here.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't do it. I'm saying, stop acting like they owe it to LeBron to do it. Or that LeBron is the victim of this. They don't. They don't, Chris. It's not. They don't know him. They don't.

I totally agree. They don't. The Lakers need to do what's best for the Lakers. I might do it. And this story. Look, if I thought, if I thought I could get off the Westbrook contract, that I would be essential to me. I would not move those, I would not move those first rounders and not get off the Westbrook deal. Okay.

Because I don't care. Look. You know, I've been much higher on Westbrook than you have in the past. Kudos to him for filling out this bentral. It's not the right fit with LeBron James. And so that's not going to work. And I would get, if I could get rid of that contract, then I would get rid of the pitch.

I would not get rid of those picks and just add somebody else. Because in the end, I've still got the same thing going. But you're saying if you can get rid of the contract, but you also need to be getting the appropriate players back. Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm saying that that's part of me. That's, and again, you're now,

I would have to get players back that I think could help me. Okay? Even if there was just a bunch of role players, I'm fine with that. I can't just attach first rounders to get off the Westbrook thing. I need to get guys back. but even if I get a group of role players back, I would do it.

And so I don't, like, I can't just be using those first round picks. He is expiring, Chris, though. Like, if you keep the pick, you maintain that space. That's the other lane here, where if you let him expire this offseason, then you can sign players and you have your picks to make deals. I get it, but what are the chances?

is that, like, what would you look at as a title window? What if you can re-sign, what if you keep Russ and you can re-sign them for like 10 million, 15 million? He's not a good basketball fit. Oh, I'm just, I'm just, I would not keep him. No. I'm just offering that thought. It's just not a good basketball fit. Not even for 10 million?

And you like Russ and you don't feel that way. No, he's not a good basketball fit. I'm surprised. I'm surprised you'd feel that way. You think I want LaBron's. Ron, you know, backing down somebody and kicking out to him to shoot a three? No, of course not. I mean, the spacing is horrendous.

Yeah. When you think about it during the playoffs and the team being able to game playing it. Oh, they've been doing that for years. This is the problem. This is the problem. He's one of your best players on that team. He's clearly one of your best players. So when you get to the playoffs, you're playing him.

you're not playing other guys instead of it. Even the Lakers back in the bubble when Russ was on Houston, they didn't respect the shot behind the yard. It's almost mind-blowing that LeBron James wanted Russell Westbrook. Look what your defense did to him in the postseason a couple of years ago. And you think about that team. Rondo, Caruso, Danny Green, you know, like. Even like a Marquief Moore.

Morris type. There were lessons there in terms of like, you ain't got to do all that much around them. Ksma, KCP, like, these are the kind of role players that you need. Like they literally won a title and then looked around and said, this isn't the way you have a title team with LeBron and AD. We need a bunch of guys that can't shoot. Which is based the way you're talking about,

about like it's not like they needed to land some superstar with those picks. They need their correct pieces around LeBron James and Anthony Davis. They could still have all those guys. They could still have KCP and Kuzma and Caruso

and Danny Green. I mean, they could still have all them. It's crazy. It's a tough situation. It really is a tough situation for the Lakers because I'm with you, Chris. They don't owe LeBron anything to make a deal, like despite his greatness and all that, whatever.

They're a game and a half back from the sixth seed right now, a guaranteed playoff spot. They are in striking distance, but despite their horrific start of the season, despite Anthony Davis being out, despite guys missing time, they're still in it. And I think if you're the Lakers, if you're a Lakers fan, you watch this team right now, and it feels like a team that's starting to figure a lot of things out. They're finding some of those role players that you're talking about. We opened this conversation talking about Thomas Bryant with his effort hustling up and down the floor. It's not just him either.

Schroeder's back providing playmaking, important playmaking for that team. Guys like Tuscano Anderson, you know, bring in some energy and versatile defense. Kendrick Bunger was pretty good the other night coming off the bench. Like they have some guys that are contributing off the bench. It's just they're missing like that middle tier, like the Miles Turner buddy heel trade that they could have made or really pursued harder. or had they landed Boyan Bogdanovich from Utah at the time before they dealt him to Detroit or if they could get him again. It's guys like that that they're missing,

but they have some of the back-end bench pieces already. And I would not criticize them if they moved their picks and got the return now because I'd look around and say, we could win the West. If I'm them, if I'm them, I would go if I got healthy, they could. I've got healthy LeBron and I've got healthy AD. We could win the West.

I can't win the West with what I've got right now. So I need to make a move. And I just don't think I'm going to have that many more years where I could count on. If I say, hey, I think these guys are actually going to be able to be healthy. At least I'll book on it. You know, here's a chance that we could take a run at the title. Then, again, I would use those picks to improve my team. I just, I got so disenchanted listening.

to people talk about how they, you know, you know, he's publicly pressuring them into doing this, you know, when are you going to, what are you going to get me some help?

Like, bro, are you serious? I mean, I think, are you serious? Well, apparently,

like, you know, I thought Windhorst wrote a really good article today. It was like a very measured piece he put on ESPN about all of the first round draft picks that, His past teams have traded and the players that were drafted with those picks. And this speaks to, you know, a lot of the conversations we have about the value of picks and, you know, giving them up for star players.

I'm just going to rattle off those names really quick. So teams have traded their picks 13 times and moved 17 total first rounders. LeBron James led teams. And like, you know the names that they've acquired. Chris Bosch, Kevin Love, AD, Jameson, Mosgoff, Corver, Channing, Fry, Russell, West. Brooke, the mistake at the end there. But those, like, they've won titles because of those guys. The players they've drafted from recent to way back in 05.

Dyson Daniels, Isaiah Jackson, Jada McDaniels, DeAndre Hunter, Caleb Swanigan, Harry Giles, Corkmaas, Timothy Luwalu, Labassier, Tias Jones, Andrew Wiggins, Nettovich, Moultry, Valanchunis, Lazar Hayward, Rudy Fernandez, Sean May. were any of those guys, you know, that were selected, going to help win them a title? Maybe, you know, a handful of them, you know, Wiggins, if he had developed in a different situation. Val and Junis, right, exactly, you know,

maybe Dyson Daniels, if they had been able to, you know, utilize him this season theoretically, but then you don't have Anthony Davis, right? So I think, or maybe it's guys that were drafted behind them that the Lakers instead of would have selected or the calves would have or the heat would have, but maybe not. maybe the pick would have been worse. But I do think that speaks to

the urgency that teams have always felt and should continue to feel when you do have LeBron James on your team. He made the mistake pushing for Russell Westbrook, but now it is on the Lakers front office and Polinka to get it right. And in fairness,

it just so happens those are a bunch of bad draft picks that you listed off. I mean, that's a lot of misses. If those are here, Chris, we did talk earlier, though, about the players the Lakers have drafted before LeBron and while LeBron's been there. The players have signed Caruso, the late picks, you know, the Larry Nances of the world,

they've had a lot of hits throughout the draft. So if you're the Lakers' front office, you need to be thinking about the path with LeBron where you keep those picks or without LeBron if you need those picks. That's what they have to be thinking about. It's got to be on their mind because he could ask out this summer. Clutch could say we're dumping the Lakers. Trade me to Golden State. Trade me to Phoenix.

Trade me to New York. He's not leaving there. Why did he sign the extension? He didn't have to. He didn't have to. He wants to be there. He doesn't want to be there. He loves L.A.

He wants to be there. Yeah, I don't think he wants to go there. He just wanted his way. Exactly my point. If he doesn't get his way, then he could say, I want to. to go somewhere else. David Griffin tried to tell everybody,

what a thankless job it is. Oh, yeah, he said it. If you don't win, you suck. Yep. Right? But if you do the bidding, you might end up with a nothing roster in no future.

Yep. That's the truth. Though the calves have done a hell of a job rebuilding back post-in-brose. They've done an incredible job. Kobe Altman, that entire front office, like, oh my God. As of right now,

Now, again, this is before any moves could possibly be made, okay? We are right at the midway point of the season. Tell me if you agree with this. I think there's six teams in either conference that could win the conference. So six each or six total? Yes. Each. Okay, so 12 teams total, six and each.

Yeah, I'd say one of these, I'd say six of these teams have a chance. at winning the conference. And anybody else, I would be surprised. Tell me if you agree. Boston, Brooklyn, Milwaukee, Cleveland, Philly, Miami. I'm a little more, I'm a little bit more skeptical on Miami, but I think, you know, the conversation we had weeks back about the playoff mode, Miami Heat, that's a different type of team than regular season Miami Heat.

Well, a BAM's got a wrist thing. Yeah. Obviously, but they can, they're also been pretty aggressive, and I think they know their windows now. Well, and Tyler Arrow, you know, subtly has been. He's been better this season. Like you look at his pick and roll numbers. It's way up. He's six man of the year last year.

Yeah, way up. Like the hero has been really good. Okay, but you would say then, so you would be surprised if it's Miami. I would be surprised, but I'm willing to keep them there. Okay. I'm willing to.

And that's where the list is. Yep. I think that is so in the Western Conference, too. Denver, Memphis, New Orleans, Dallas. Oh, so good to hear New Orleans on that list. Feels nice. Golden State and the Clippers.

Who'd you leave off here? Sacramento ain't winning the... Okay. Did you say Phoenix? I did not. Okay. So Phoenix is the team off. You're listening. And before we get to Phoenix, what's the argument for the Clippers? Can you trust this team with guys, you know, Kauai and Paul George in and out of the lineup? Or is it the same case that Miami has where it's like, well, you're just assuming at that point

those guys are playing night in, night out. The argument is talent, coach, pedigree, like they went to the West Finals without Kauai. It did happen. Yep. That happened. So I have to at least, yeah, they, I can't say, well, yeah, they don't have a good enough roster.

Like, I didn't think they had a good enough, I didn't think that was a good enough roster. And they got there. I do think Tyloos very good. You know, Paul George is one of the best 10 to 20 players in the NBA still. If Kauai's, I mean, that's again, if they won the West, if it all came together and they won the West, that would not be the most shocking thing to be simply because those guys, you've got a lot of all-star appearances still between those two.

And they would have to be healthy. That's a big question, though, Chris. Like them being healthy. I got it. That's a huge question. All right. So you throw them out. I don't trust.

See, I don't trust Phoenix. I don't trust Phoenix either. I don't either, Chris. I don't like it. I don't like the vibe. I don't like the Aitin stuff. I just don't. Chris Paul, like, turned it to a pumpkin.

We talked about it, what was it last Friday? About how, like, the issue with their team is, you know, you build around CP and Devin Booker as your initiators. They have no, they, like nobody else can, can run the offense. No,

like so few guys, like you, you watch other teams and you watch Denver. When Yokic kicks it out, almost everybody on that team can handle, make another pass. The sons don't have those connected pieces in the same way that the other best teams in the NBA do.

And Aiton, I mean, like what a disappointment the way he's falling off on defense. He's not the same guy right now. His effort's not the same. like that that's a big time concern considering how pivotal he's been to their success in the past on defense i i just i think the sons are out of a picture right now without a big trade they they if they if they intend on actually contending they need to use some of those future picks now do you think so all right

so you would say in the absence of them doing something serious you would not consider them a a West Finals team or team that could be there. The Bright Now Suns era has passed. Yeah. So right now, if you look at the odds. And you didn't say the Lakers either,

did you? Because I, because hold on, I said as currently constructed. Okay. As currently constructed. And that's very fair.

And look, it's fair if somebody calls me out on what you said if Miami, they could be aggressive. Like, I think Miami could probably do it as they're currently constructed. It's possible. If they won two series

and ended up in the East finals. I think if I were doing my own list, I'd knock off the clippers and the heat. Okay. So it'd be 10 total teams. If Jimmy Butler makes a shot last year, and they didn't even have hero,

they beat the Celtics. He was open. Yeah. It was open. That was a hell of a game. It was a great game. game. Like I think that they're bitch to eliminate.

Yeah, they are. I mean, playoff, Jimmy Buller's a different guy. That's the one big thing with them. He's a different type of player that you need to analyze. If you look at odds that are posted on sports books in Vegas, who do you think's favored to win the West right now? If I went and bet on it.

Denver? I don't know. It's actually Golden State. Oh, Golden State still? Okay. Golden State, then Denver, then Memphis, then the Clippers, and then the Pelicans. After the Clippers who you just eliminated. Oh, that's nice. And then the Sons. And once you get to the Sons, I mean, you're talking plus a thousand on a return.

So like you put that on a hundred bucks, you win a thousand. Oh, like a Dallas type. No, if the Phoenix, if Phoenix won the West, if you bet $100 today, and Phoenix ends up winning the West, you'd win a thousand bucks. So, I mean, they've moved down on that list, significantly, certainly since the beginning of the season. I just pulled open on Fandall. I see the Lakers are plus 3,300 on Fandall Sportsbook. To win the West?

To win the West, yeah. Wow. And that's, those are pretty good odds, right? Well, and in the East, those six that I named off, those actually are, those are all the six. Miami would last. And then the next one is actually on my list, Toronto? What the hell? And, man, it's a massive drop-off.

Kind of surprised that Atlanta or New York or the Bulls, frankly, are not. The Bulls? They're not. Again, none of those teams are winning the east. I get it, right? They should all be a billion to one. I might as well just throw your money on the street. Yeah, right.

Yeah, they should all be a billion to one at this point. right now. But I think there's six teams in either. Regarding the MVP right now as we get to the midway point of the season, let me just ask you before I tell you on the odd stuff. Who would you vote today? Yokic. He is second on the list I'm looking at. Luca right now is the favorite. I think it makes sense to have Luca be the betting favorite because of the factor of voter fatigue. That could become a thing. It should not become a thing.

I don't think voters should at all consider what they've done in the past or who's won in the past. I don't think that's relevant to the 2020-23 season. Luca Yokic Janus, Tatum, Durant, and beat. Obviously, Durant's number will go down significantly and then Donovan Mitchell, John Moran are both listed after them.

Probably the best value would be Embeded, right? Plus, you know, around 16,500 because if they had an unbelievable last 41 games of the season, Mbid has some crazy stats. Like, you could see that. If they had the best record or the second best record, Brooklyn's going to fall back. How about LeBron James at plus 11,000?

What if the Lakers rise up to like the five or six seat in the West? And like I'm just thinking, like, remember the Marcus Smart campaign late last year for defensive player of the year? What's the LeBron James media driven campaign? Look like it'd be that on overdrive. Oh, my God. I'm just saying plus 11,000. You're right.

If they moved like way high and his numbers are. crazy in year 58 or whatever it is for him. Because I do worry about... Andy breaks Kareem's record. Exactly. Yeah. You're right. Yeah.

You're probably right in terms of a long shot. You're looking at a long shot. The rookie of the year is the bloodbath of all bloodbass. You got to lay over $1,000 on Palo Bancair to get a hundred back. Oh, yeah. That's an easy one. It's him and Matherin. And that's it.

Matherin, you can get a lot of value. want it because he's plus like 750 or plus a thousand depending on where you looked. If Paolo were to miss time. If he missed time. Then he's kind of the next guy in line. We got our right with those two before the season. I mean, Paulo is an easy one. But Mathron we talked about is that next guy.

That's right. Defensive player of the year, it's minus. It's minus for Sharon Jackson Jr. right. Is that right? Should it be minus? Yes. I mean, but should it be? Yes.

Do you think he should be that much of the favorite? Yes. I don't think it's even close. They were last in the NBA and defense. Do you know what they are today? He's number one. He plays 26 minutes for a game. They're number one.

He plays 26 minutes for a game. They're number one in the NBA. Go look at their numbers. Yeah, I know. I know. With him on the floor. He plays like 26 minutes for a game. With the best defense in the NBA.

For 26 minutes. Okay. How many minutes? How many books do, all right, let's talk about the other guys. How many is Brooke Lopez play? 30.3. Okay. How many is Nick Claxton play?

28.3. Okay. So you think three and a half more minutes that are wildly less effective. Bamata Bio, 35.2. Yeah. So you think that those minutes that are wildly less effective. 33.7. Just rattling off some of the next teams.

So you want to hold minutes. No, no, I'm not saying, I'm not saying Jaron, OG and Ninobe, 37.1. I'm just right. I'm not saying he shouldn't. Toronto guys don't apply. Nick Nurse is going to. Nurse is the new Tibido and no one talks about it.

Chris, I'm not saying that Jaron Jackson should have been in the conversation. I'm just surprised that he's minus 130. Like that heavy of a favorite? That's all I'm surprised by. I mean, I got the best record in the NBA and the number one defense. I know. I'm just surprised he's that much of a favorite.

All right. Who should it be? I'm not saying it shouldn't be Jared Jackson, but I'm just one. I'm surprised that he's minus 130. That's all I'm expressing. It's just surprising to me. The next guy is Brooke Lopez. Yeah, he's been amazing.

I'm just surprised Jared Jackson's been that much for my favorite. That's all. I thought he'd be more like plus 200, plus 100, not minus 130. Six Man of the Year You want to know who the favorite is For Sixth Man of the Year? Who's the favorite? Russell Westbrook

That's silly Then Poole Who has not been good this year? Yeah, I know. I wonder who will end up actually winning this. And then Brogden And then Matherin

And then Powell And then Bobby Portis. I think Bobby Portis One I like them Yeah, but Bobby Fortis hasn't been as good. either. I know.

productive. Russell was like six men of the year. It's kind of a weak class. Yeah. Think about it. Yeah. Not great. Not great.

And most improved might be the best of the list at the midway point. How about like Devin Vassell? No, it's Gilchitz Alexander. No, no, no. I'm saying for six man. I'm just still thinking a lot about a Keegan Murray. I don't know. I mean, Devin Bacel is not even got a plan.

anymore. Yeah, I know, but as of today, you know. Yeah. Most improved. Gilders Alexander, Markinen, Halliburton, Simons. And then you get down to, like, Kevin Porter, Tuna or whatever. But, I mean, Gildes-A-Lexander, Markin, Halliburton, Simon's pretty unbelievable, especially those top three.

I think that's actually going to be a war to see who people vote for. I mean, Gilded Alexander, it's a hard one because he's all. Already awesome, but he has taken that leap to, like, massive startup. Clearly, he was, what, fourth in voting? It should be Lowry marketing. It should be Lowry. She was, like, it's just people started watching this year, but he's been good for two years. I saw Marketing in a person a couple nights ago, Sunday.

I saw him in person on Sunday. And I'll tell you, is that Will Hardy? Like, you watch them and. they lost to Memphis, but they played really well. They shot, I think, over 50% from the field in the game that I went to. And they play, like, quote, the right way. I mean, they pop the ball around there. They got high assist numbers.

They get good shots. Markinen, who had been on fire coming in, didn't have his best game. But I was pretty impressed. Just getting to see him in person. He's really filled out, you know, in a way that I don't think came through. to me as much on television as it did in person. And I think people kind of think of him as like kind of a more perimeter oriented, soft type, you know what I mean?

He ain't soft at all. He yams it on people. No, he ain't soft. He goes. And I think that that's just a, they're a really well-coached basketball team. They really are. You watch them, I always, when I go to these games, I'm always think. of myself like, all right, what are they trying to do offensively, defensively? I mean,

I saw San Antonio to that point last night. And same kind of deal. I think they had like 28 or 30 assists. You know, they run all the stuff. It's like they play good basketball. They're just, they don't have any good players or not enough good players in order to win. But like, you can tell like they're doing what a good well-coach season. would do. If you ever put the talent in there as it stands for reason, coached by Greg Popovich and coached by Will Hardy.

I do like Tyos Jones, little brother. I do like him. Trey Jones. Yeah. They have some talent. Yeah. And so on. You know, he's green. But he could turn into something. A lot to like there.

No. And the Utah thing, marketing has just otherworldly for them. He should, without question be the favorite for most approved player. It's just over 82 games they haven't think. Yeah. And I love SGA. It's just

like, OKC fans, that he's been great the last two years. The main thing that's changed is an uptick and touches and more shots, more drives. But like skill-wise, I mean, like he's, you know, there's been some marginal improvements, but he's been great for two years.

Yeah, that award is usually goofy. It is. It should be marketing. It went to Moran. It went to a rant last year. I mean, which is... It's weird how that awards, you know, I don't know. It's weird how voters have changed the way they look at it. It used to go to like role player, you know, end a bench player to role player. And now it goes to, you know, good young player to great young player.

And I'm not saying that's wrong. I in the past have argued for like Luca to be, you know, a favorite for a list of improved player. I'm not saying it's wrong. I just think it's just weird the way the voter, the voter approach has changed so much over the years for that. Look, they gave it to John Morant last year. After the spring prior,

he scored like 50 points in a playoff game. And then he came back the next year and like, hey, you know who's improved the most? John Morant, like, what? Did y'all not even watch? It's like, the guy almost scored 50 points in a playoff game. How can you improve that much? What was the improvement?

I know he clearly got better, but give me a break. They usually do. And so that's kind of more like the Gildes-Alexander mode. But I agree with you. Other bar kind of thing. Who did I vote for last year for Most Improved? I voted for last year, I just pulled it up. I voted for Tyrese Maxie, Jordan.

pool Dejante Murray. And I know Grizzly's fans got mad at me for not, it's funny, they didn't get mad at me for not voting for John Moran. They got mad at me for not having Desmond Bayne. But I like Desmond Mayne the year prior. I thought Bain was really good the year prior. So

it's such a tough award. But I think this year is pretty obvious. It's Laurie Marketing. And that's, again, Halliburton, awesome. He was great last season after Neander got him. And SGA has been great for two years now, just even better now. Excited for the rest of this seasoners were kind of at the midway point.

Thank you to our producer, Jesse Lopez, as always, Kevin. I'll talk to you on Friday. Looking forward to it.