The Mismatch - Will Embiid Ever Be the Same? Plus, MLK Day Highlights and Things We Believe in the Most.

Episode Date: January 21, 2025

Verno and Jacoby discuss the action-packed MLK Day slate of games yesterday, including the Grizzlies edging out the Timberwolves, the Celtics demolishing the Warriors, Cade Cunningham’s stellar season, and the low-key good Knicks win over the Hawks (04:00). They then debate if Joel Embiid will play Tuesday night against the Nuggets and the growing concerns about his health (27:00). Next, as we inch closer to the halfway point of the season, the guys each share three things that they believe in the most (40:17). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David Jacoby Producer: Jessie Lopez Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? Logan Murdoch here from Real On The Ringer NBA show, and I wanted to invite you to pull up and kick it with Roger Bell, Howard Beck, and myself during All-Star weekend for our live podcast. We're going to be at the Stoer Punchline Comedy Club in San Francisco on Saturday, February 15th at 2 p.m. pre-gaming all the all-star festivities, and you never know who might stop by. Get your tickets now by heading over to ringer.com backslash events. That's ringer.com backslash events. to see you there. Welcome to the mismatch.

I'm Chris Vernon. And Jordan Mecy does every week from the ringer.com is Dave Jacoby. Jacoby. What's happening to Berno? Listen, the NFL might have taken a piece of Christmas away from the NBA, but MLK Day will always be the NBA's,

even though, let's be honest, we both checked in on that national championship game last night during the NBA action. We did, but I will say this is something that is very near and dear to my heart because it's all kind of started in Memphis many, many years ago. Obviously, Memphis is the home of the National Civil Rights Museum, which is at the Lorraine Motel, where Dr. King was assassinated. And many years ago, a brainchild of the Memphis Grizzly's organization was to highlight this day, have a game on this day. And then they do a National Civil Rights Museum symposium, and then they have honorees. So it was a huge day where I am. And there have been manner of incredible honorees over the years. Everybody from Bill Russell to last year was Ozzy Smith.

And I mean, it's been 20-something years that this has been going on. And yesterday, it was Amari Stadamire, saw that. Tommy Smith and Cheryl Miller. Tommy Smith, obviously, from the 1968 Olympics. And it was a great day. There's a documentary called Return to Mexico City about John Carlos Tommy Smith returning to Mexico City, the director of that documentary,

an excellent filmmaker by the name of Joey Jacoby. Is that right? Yeah, she went back to Mexico City with Tommy and John. He is 80 years old, and you would be absolutely in stunned disbelief if you were around him. Like, he looks like you can still run today. And there are things you end up learning so much history,

and then so many of the young guys learned so much history. I had no idea. At one point, forget the, obviously, the iconic picture, and we know of his success in the Olympics. He was at one point the holder of 10 world records at one point. Incredible, incredible. On and off track accolades for both Tommy and John are out of control. There's a really interesting story about the third medalist.

I believe it's an Australian runner who also stood in solidarity with Tommy and John and is sort of bitter about the fact that he gets no accolades for it to this day. That's hilarious. So anyways, there's a good day for sure. Also very near and dear to my heart because I could probably count on my hands, certainly two hands, the amount of games that I have missed in over 20 something years. One of which was on January 18, 2010, which was a game against the Phoenix Suns, which was for the birth of my son, who turned 15 over. the weekend. Yeah. So it's always, like the MLK game is always a huge deal. And obviously it is something that has been very close to my heart for the last 15 years. And my family always goes, right? Like usually it's like bring friends to the game or whatever. But my wife and my son and my daughter went yesterday. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because this ended up, it was not the best

basketball game but ended up having a good ending. Yeah. But my wife was sitting next to a Timberwolf's fan. Interesting. Now my wife does not keep up with basketball, right? She has an awareness of things going on in the NBA. And certainly she knows the Grizzlies players and then she knows some on the other teams. you want to talk about a fun ride home.

I said, how were the seats? She said, they were amazing. She goes, I was actually sitting next to a Timberwolves fan. And I said, oh, yeah. A Timberwolves fan that lives in Memphis or someone that perhaps traveled with the team to the game? Travel. Okay. I believe.

Or maybe a family friend or such. So what do you think? She said, She had gleaned a lot from sitting next to a Timberwolves fan. Were they chatting or she was observed? No, listening to him. Okay. Because he is with his significant other at the game.

And the first thing she said to me, I said, you sat next to a Timberwell's fan? She goes, yeah. She goes, it was interesting. She goes, Chris, who is Julius and why do they hate him so much? Welcome to the Julius Randall Experience. I said, Welcome to the Julius Randall experience, Timberwell's fans.

On the Bible. Now, she doesn't know. She doesn't know anything about anything. We're talking about orange Julius is? What are we talking about? She goes every time this guy would do something. She has no idea who Julius Randall is. Okay.

She goes every time he would do something. This guy would go, something bad. That happens every time you get the ball. Oh, no, no, no, no, that's not true. That is not true. Because it's not every time he gets the ball. It's every time he's around the ball.

Because look at your guy, Jaron Jackson Jr. last night, every time Julius Randall was in front of him and he had the ball. 15 points in the fourth quarter. On Julius Randall. I said 12 of those are on Julius Randall. Okay. So, so anyways, she says, who is Julius and why do they hate him? which is a bit extreme, but that's all she knows.

All she knows is she's at next to a guy from the other team, and this guy was complaining about Jewish, and she goes, but they love the guy that looks like a kid. And I'm like, what? Rob Dillingham. Oh, of course.

And I was like, well, that was his career high yesterday. Yeah. Right. He came off. He's a heater. Everyone loves the potential of a rookie who hasn't seen the floor because there's vets in his way. And then Dante was hurt, so he got some run and played well.

Well, it's super interesting. He's going to get a lot of run because Dante is hurt, hurt. Yeah. Right. Well, when you see grade three next to an injury, you got trouble. It's bad. You got trouble. He started.

He was at the starting lineup. He was playing really well recently. He seems sort of like find his fit. A bit a tough start of the season for Dante. It didn't seem like he seamlessly found his way into their offense, the way that sort of cat has in New York. But he was fitting in recently, and this is just a really bad injury for them to have.

Well, also they had made a big choice, which was moving Devincento into the starting lineup and moving Mike Conno out of the starting lineup, and then by virtue of this injury, now you have to go back. And now you're getting a rookie involved into the situation. And so... You were at the game. And I had the misfortune of watching the Timberwolves play against the New York Knickerbockers

since we last spoke as well. And Nas Reid went six for six from three against the Knicks. Straight up. Six for six from three. We celebrate Steph Curry going eight for eight. Like we should build a statue and get him a plaque. Nas Reid was six for six against the Knicks. And he's still coming off the bench and Julius Randall is starting.

And perhaps that gentleman sitting next to your wife is on to something. because if you're mixing up the starting lineup and you put Dante in and it works, but now Dante's not available, so you have to revert back to Mike Conley, perhaps just an idea here that we should put Nas read in the starting lineup instead of Julius Randall because that's inevitably objectively the best thing to do basketball-wise. So why not just do it and rip off the bin? Answer that question for me. Well, no.

And I think I think your question is that maybe it's going to be part of, Maybe it's not like a straight one for one, but it's part of a bigger deal. The interesting thing is going to be, can they find a landing place for Randall? Because one, no, one of the things you do as a general manager, the best ones, the best ones, pull the plug in something that obviously is not best for your team and your franchise, right? It's hard to do when it's your decision. It's easy to do when you're taking over for someone else's work, but it's your decision is difficult to do, but it's not. the right thing to do here. You accept the mistake and now you make the best of it. And I will give you a perfect example. And sometimes it will cost you because, and we'll see down the road

what the cost is for the Dallas Mavericks with the first round pick that they had to send out when they got rid of Grant Williams. But then enabled them to make it to the NBA finals. It's a perfect example of how this takes place. I liked the Grant Williams acquisition for Dallas last year. It didn't work. There's a bad fit with their best player, and it didn't work. And so you get into the season, you say, all right, here's the acknowledgement. This is not what I thought it was going to be. We got to move on from this. And so the interesting thing is going to be, can they find a spot for Randall in these next couple of weeks? Because we are hurtling towards the trade deadline. So, I mean, we're three weeks from decision time on a lot of

this and it'll be fascinating to see if they can find a landing spot for him, i.e. what Dallas did with Grant Williams last year. Yeah, but the potential price for Randall is so much higher than Grant Williams that it's much harder to do.

And there's, listen, I'm not a Randall fan. I've made that very clear over time. This is a biased opinion. This is not an objective journalist like looking at the numbers. I don't like the way he plays. I don't want him to be on my favorite team. And I don't think he makes players around him better.

I think he sort of like takes the air out of the ball and the air out of the room and is a ball stopper and not a good offensive cog or piece. But what team looking up and down the standings is Julius Randall away and is willing to give significant young players and draft assets to acquire it? I don't see a team. I don't see a team. No, I mean, I think what you're hoping is that you find somebody that's willing to take on that salary and then remove.

who've said salary, right? It's not a winning team. It's not a winning team. But then what do you get back? I mean, you're just trying to get rid of Randall for the sake of getting rid of Randall. That would, again, I do not like to lose one. All right, I'll just say it out loud.

So, like, I'm the wrong person to be objective about this. I think you do get better just by getting rid of him. But if you get back a couple of young wizards or like Jordan Poole, is that doing anything for you? If you believe in the addition by subtraction. So you know what's? more important than where the future of Julius Randall is this season,

how good the Grizzlies have been looking lately? They have... Gigi Jackson is back. I mean, look, they played... Jaylon Wells shut out Anthony Edwards. The reason there should be a real

cause for pause with the Minnesota Timberwolves is Memphis played terribly yesterday. Like, truly. The first three quarters. No, they made seven three-pointers. They made seven three-pointers.

They attempted. With the 7.33 or something I want to say, right? They attempted, in this day and age in the NBA, they attempted one three-point shot in the fourth quarter, missed it, and they scored 37 points in the quarter. Because Julius Randall guarding Jared Jackson Jr. Understood. Understood. But that's a massive problem. when a team can score 37 points

without making a three-pointer? No, missed it. They took one. They missed it. But when you think you've got the defensive player of the year, the multi-time defensive player of the year, the Greatest Greenland Protection that's ever touched the God's Green Earth, how could you score the rim?

How could you score the rim? With Rudy Gobert down there. Is this his name Rudolph? Is this full name Rudolph? I need to look into this. Stand by. Look, and Memphis has been playing. well, but the big thing is they've been on people's TVs a couple of times recently.

So people have seen them. It's not like they have done something extremely extraordinary recently that they have not done outside of what was extraordinary, which was that Spurs game that was on TV last weekend. But other than that, they've been humming along. There was a bunch of good games that were going on yesterday. Before we move on, Rudy Gaubert's full name. Rudy. Yeah, there you.

Celtics destroyed the Warriors, the worst home loss in 40 years for the Warriors. You've got this Draymond Green calf strain. You've got everybody looking depressed. And then you have this hilariously awkward moment after the game where Jason Tatum is talking to Steph Curry and Steve Curry standing on the side. like he's going to talk to Jason Tatum, but it's pretty obvious that he's never going to get to talk to Jason Tatum. So it's, we've all been in that spot where you're like, so when you're about to say hello to is in a conversation,

and you feel like the rhythm of that conversation is about to wind up and then you're going to have your opportunity, but it never really winds up. You never get your opportunity. You'd have to just bail on the whole thing and then leave. I did get into that. I was going to want to make a big deal out of it, but I did read that they did sort of like,

hug it out later and like get up and chat or whatever. Oh, is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I read that later on later on. Yeah, Tatum and Kerr actually did have a little chat or whatever. It is a funny clip. It's a funny clip. It is a funny clip.

But if you're just standing there awkward, for those that haven't seen it, Steve Kerr is just standing there awkwardly waiting for a conversation between Steph Curry and Jason Tatum to end. And as you are watching the video, you're like, Jason Tatum's going to continue. knew this conversation for an hour until he walked away.

A little chilly outside, huh? Just always get this cold in January here in the May. And they're also doing the thing where they're like, they've got their hands over their mouths. They're whispering each other's ear. So they're not really like sort of paying attention to what's going on around them. But Steve Kerr was just just waiting, we're just like,

he was just like a waiting at the double-dush jump rope for his time to get in. It just never happened. Just never happened. This has gotten super bleak for the Warriors, Jacoby, because not only did you have the comminga injury, which we talked about, we wondered how that could alter what even you would possibly be able to do at the trade deadline. Then you have all those stories come out about, hey, don't make a win now move, et cetera, et cetera. And now they're in quite the precarious situation where now they have lost Draymond to the calf strain along with the injuries that they've had. And it culminates with a team that had been struggling recently.

Boston Celtics, obviously getting their focus together and then just absolutely mingling them. And I mean, even short-handed, it is, they have taken a 50-point loss in Memphis and a 40-point loss at home this year. I mean, you want to talk about demolishing your point differential. I mean, these are things that cannot be overcome. You know what? Yeah. They were missing, what, four rotation players, including Draymond, of course. and Steph sat in the first half

and the Celtics outscored Golden State by 17 points and it was like six minutes. It was like they just have nothing without step. I mean, the Dennis Schroo thing has not gone well. And without Steph and even Draymond is like a playmaker, they just got nothing, man, nothing. Listen, it's the middle of winter. It's cold here in the Northeast.

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how about our Detroit Pistons and how in love with Cade Cunningham or we, I would say, is it fair to say? In our group text, we have mentioned Cade Cunningham the most of any player thus far this season. We have texted the most about Cunningham.

Is that fair? Now that Jay Huff is cooled off a little bit, yes, I think that's fair to say. Jay Huff. Now that Jay Huff has cooled off a little bit. They look good, man. Do you see, I think Kate is going to be the lead, but the story to me is Jalen Dern, who's another one of those players that you kind of expected to see more from last year and you just didn't because of the Monty experience.

But, man, he was eight for eight from the field yesterday. Memphis stand up. also Cade Cunningham dunking in between everybody and then turning and yelling at the Houston Rockets on all

y'all MFs on all of you and if I was Fred Van Fleet I would be like Mr. Cunningham I wasn't a part of that I know you split two defenders and then dunked on two defenders but I was just in the area I didn't make an attempt to stop him so it's not on all of us for the record

he has to be taken out after that. I mean, you know, I mean, that's, that's the difference in nowadays and year and years gone by because years ago, if you were to dunk on everybody and then you were to stand there and scream that, oh, buddy. Yeah, you can't say I just dunk on everybody, but you can't say I just dunk on everybody because you're going, you're going to hit the floor soon. He scored 19 points on seven of eight field goals in the third quarter. Finish the game with 30. nine and seven and now Detroit. This is going to be a super fascinating week because that was the hardest of the road trip,

but this is a tough one. You look at their schedule and you see where they are within the context of the Eastern Conference. They're playing Atlanta, Orlando, and Indiana the next three nights. I mean, these are all peers. Peers, they're all ahead of them in the standings. Right. So you could really make. some way here if you are Detroit and you keep this hot thing going that you've had going in

2025. I was super fascinated earlier this week in John Schumann's column. He had this great status. He always does. But it was about the differential between if they shoot 36% from three, right? So a lot of times he will mention this as do you shoot league average from the three point line? And when Detroit has shot 36% league average from three, they are now 15 and 5 and have won 10 straight games. When they have not, they are 7 and 16 this year. So it's now something I looked at. So I was like, I wonder if that held yesterday, 37% from 3.

Huh. And what they find interesting about this team construction is, Last year, they didn't really have three-point shooting. But when you bring in Hardaway and you bring in Beasley, and to a certain extent, Harris, I mean, Harris, to me, I've never really been a big fan of his since he left the Clippers. But they brought in three-point shooting for this reason. Because Ivy's not going to do it for you.

Cade's fine. But they don't really have, like, knockdown guys. And I think with Hardaway and Beasley, you can get to that Cade, create, kick, three-point shot, get you to that 37%. I will say that though you said you're not a huge Harris fan, an opportunity for an amazing meme that I saw last week, which was the Pistons record

with the picture of Tobias Harris and the 76ers record with the picture of I saw that too. That was great. Amazing. Amazing. One man. One man. Your Nick's had a big second half against the Hawks. Hawks who had been world beaters this year.

Though their record is around 500, their record against the best teams has been fantastic. And so anytime you can beat the Hawks as a good team is a good win because a lot of their wins this season have come against the best teams. Oh, yeah. I think it might not same Schumann, I believe, that it said they're eight and two against the best teams in the East, like the top three teams in the East.

I think they beat the Celtics twice. They beat the Knicks. So they play the Knicks three times as you. of the third time, they beat him the first two. Because one of them was in the Emirates NBA Cup. The legendary Emirates NBA Cup. But this game,

so there's always a home game on MLK Day New York. And I don't know if you've been to too many of those. They used to start at noon. And let me tell you, you could take a nap in that building. Like, noon is not the time for the garden to be rocking. And unless it's close

in the fourth, you're not going to get much energy. Yesterday's game was at three. And by the second half when the Knicks made that run, the energy started to feel much better. And one thing I found really interesting was Trey Young has sort of been this sort of, he's embraced this villain role. But the New York's Knicks said, you know what?

You can't play defense. And they were just hunting him on every possession in the second half. And Bridges and him were going back and forth a little bit. And it did have a playoff feel where it's like, we're going to find the one weakness in your defense, and we're going to spam it. And we're going to see what you can do to counter that.

And there wasn't much that the Hawks had. And I think that was a good indicator for the Knicks because the Hawks are trending. Right now they're in the sixth seed. I don't think they're going to hold that. But they're trending towards that bad round one matchup for one of the top three teams. Oh, it's something that we could very plausibly see. They've beaten the Cavs. They've beaten the Celtics twice, I want to say.

They've beaten the Knicks twice. They've done it. And they're confident. We may catch Trey in the Garden in round one. That's a real thing when you look at the standings. And I just, this is off the top of my head. I have it in front of me, but I think they've beaten all three of those teams in their buildings. They've beaten all three of those teams on the road.

I think they beat the Celtics twice on the road, if I'm not mistaken. The aforementioned calves smoke the Sons. The Sons, you look at their schedule coming. forward. It's like, oh, brother, they are going to be playing against a bunch of over 500 teams. This is, you know, we talked about how about a week ago, one of the things we mentioned was Philadelphia's season could be decided over the course of the next three weeks. The same is going with Phoenix. When you look at these two teams that have been the biggest disappointments now are getting to these absolutely brutal portions of their schedules.

We would be coming on here today and talking about, oh, my God, how excited are we? I can't wait to settle in tonight to watch Embed versus Yokic, except that matchup literally never materializes. Three times in the last five seasons, we have got. gotten that matchup. Well, it's always because Mbina's out, right? I don't think Yolkich has missed one of those. No. And I mean, it's, look, since 2014, it's eight of a possible 21 matchups.

Like, two of the great big men's, if not the two greatest big men, of this generation. And we never see them play against each other is just, it's the worst. But anyways, the original point was you have these two teams that really gunned for it. They've got the three stars on each of them, et cetera, et cetera. Mortgage the future, no flexibility, can't do anything to their rosters. Colossal disappointment. Got the three, got the three stars. We're going to contend.

Now you're fighting to get in the plane. Fighting. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be brutal. It's really brutal. And look, this Embed thing that has come out now, so I was having, tell me what you think about this. I was having this thought yesterday.

You have thoughts. Yeah. So there was one part of me that was like, look, you have to keep up with coming, you have to keep coming up with reasons as to why he can't play. Because you can't get fine and they want him play, right? Like the whole idea is we want our stars playing in the NBA. And they've already gotten into a situation where they were so incredibly vague that you end up getting fine. And so now, though he has not sustained an injury, And it was very clear at the very beginning, and obviously something that probably pissed off Adam Silver and certainly pissed off a lot of former players, that whole he's not going to play back to backs. And so we knew the stage was set at the beginning of the season.

He is out. Why is he out? What did he do? What happened? Did he get injured? Like, what's the deal here? Like typically what you have is injury, diagnosis, rehab, return, right? That's the timeline. Obviously, none of those timelines apply to Joel and B.

And so here is my thought. Okay? All right. I'm in. Option one is you just have to keep on coming up with stuff. So it's the foot. Now it's the knee and he's dealing with swelling. And that's why he cannot play basketball. Okay. Is it that you're just going to keep on coming up with things? in order to have a reason that you can't be fine. Nobody can say anything about this. The knee is swelling. That's the end of that. You can't call us BS on this.

And we're really just going to keep on coming up with things throughout the entire season. I don't want to say playing possum, but the whole thing is the only thing that matters is the end. And so we are going to keep on coming up with things, hopefully win enough games to be able to get to that moment, not play him and save him. Basically, this is the way to keep him in quasi bubble wrap,

as many people have thought, until we get to the playoffs, until you keep on saying things. Or option two, bro, the cartilage is done. We should pay attention to this. He can't play basketball anymore on a regular basis. And it's done. Like, it sucks.

but it is what it is. I should have listened. I dealt with this years ago when the Grizzlies paid $90-something million to Chandler Parsons, I was covering that team. His knees were shot. Now, Chandler is friends with Joel and Beatle's on that show with Michelle Beatle. And I brought up to you a couple of months ago. You better listen when Chandler Parsons talked about what's going on.

And he's talking about just shutting him down. Like, because he knows better than everyone. When it's done, it's done. Right? You can play, but it's going to just swell up every time. And so the idea is, which are you more likely to believe? It's not as bad, but the Sixers have to just keep on trying to come up with new things that make you feel like it's worse and worse and worse so that they can try to get whatever the best version of his he is available for a play-in game and then the playoffs. or is it more likely number two, which is he shot?

Because there's no injury, Jacoby, right? No, there's an injury. There's no injury reported. But if he's not playing because his knee is swelling, that is because his knee is injured. Right? And I would say that I don't have. But that's never ending.

That's a never ending injury. That's an ailment. Oh, yeah. I don't have the medical expertise. to sort of from like an expert's point of view, advise the Sixers on how they would handle this. But I will say this. They ran a playbook similar to this in Los Angeles

with the Clippers last year with Co-I. They said, you know what's important in the postseason? You know, it's not important the regular season. We're going to rest him. We know that he's often injured. We know that he has these lingering knee problems that flare up over time after he's sort of played a lot basketball. So we're going to avoid that. We're going to have him in prime condition for the

playoffs. We're going to rest him in the months leading up to the playoffs. That is the strategy. That is what's going to get us two months off of Kauai. We'll get us the two months onto Kauai that will get us the first Klipper's championship in the history of the franchise. And how did that work out? He played two games, didn't really get hurt, but decided that he was going to shut it down for the rest of the season. And I don't see it being any different with Joel M. Bid. if you have Joel Embed and he is good enough to play just play. The only way

to play a lot of basketball is to play a lot of basketball. I do not believe that sitting him down or shutting him down for the season and looking towards next season is an answer to any of these problems. I think this is the player that he is. You are locked

into a long term, extremely expensive, multiple hundred million dollar contract with him, get the most basketball out of him possible. You will never see MVP Joel Embed again. I hope I'm wrong. I don't think I am. You don't think there's any chance. You think he actually is

swelling up all of the time and cannot play basketball. You don't think this is a we're playing possible. No, I know. And again, like I said, I'm not a doctor. I don't have the me expertise. But I will say this is, I don't think there's

another season like we had from Mbid two years ago when he won the MVP. I do not. I think that imbed is caught. And if it's not the left knee swelling, it's something else. What was it, the calf or the ankle a couple weeks ago? It's something else or he breaks a face. Like he's just sort of, he's just injury riddle. And you're now, and you're now to the point where it's really, you know,

you're keeping an eye. If you're sick, just fan, this is something that is unfathomable when you come into the season. Oh, say it. You're looking at the bull. No, it's like the bulls because, look, you're not. falling farther than 11. Everybody passed 11 has no interest. Yes, they're not trying to win.

They have no interest in winning. They're actively trying to lose games. Yeah. So it's really, are the Bulls going to keep doing this and end up trying to get to play it? Like, never in a million years would you think like, hey, we need to kind of keep track of what the Bulls are doing if you're the 76ers. The Bulls accidentally beat the Clippers last night.

Well, they were without Zubots and Kauai. So, yeah, yeah. But no, it's crazy. But, I mean, look, it depending on what happens with the Bulls, 10 then becomes the floor. If the Bulls decide to, you know, they decide which direction they're going to go, right? Get better or get worse or stay the same, I guess, and just be intensely mediocre. We will see as these next three weeks unfold, as you head to the trade deadline, you know, people have expected them to be sellers for a long time. and that Levine would be on a different team and whatever else.

But you know, there's part of me that was thinking, like, are they just going to say, hey, we'll take our chances at getting that play in? Right. Like, Philly has no chance at getting to six. So it's a play in situation, and they probably don't have a chance of getting to a home court in the play in. So it's like we feel like we can play our way into this. But obviously you've got to get to 10 first.

Yeah, get to 10. you got to win two games. But that being said, I'm a Knicks fan. That was a tough out in the first round last year. Yeah. If they've got Paul George and Jolambit and Tyrese Maxie, they're going six games with whoever they play in the first round. Whoever they play.

Well, and their record when they have all three and they all three finish the game is outstanding. The issue is it never happens. Mm-hmm. They never all three play and finish the game. I think it's happened seven times. Yeah, and they're six and one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. It's been a very depressing season for the Sixers and Sixers fans, but I still wouldn't count them out.

They're still a really tough out. If you look at the other teams, they're currently in the playing right now. Magic Heat Pistons Bulls, Sixers. A healthy magic, I would say, is the hardest team to beat in the seven game series, and the Sixers are right there with them of that group. one other one other game to mention from yesterday is what we thought was totally probable with the Mavericks is happening as they are falling down the standings without they've gotten Kyrie back but obviously without luca dodg it is going to be a tough road to ho uh they they lose this game to the hornets yesterday and obviously they the reason that this is significant is because Because whether it is Oklahoma City, whether it is Memphis, whether it is Houston, as you look and go, cheese, man, this team could very easily be six, seven, or eight when it comes around and be the bitch of all bitches that have to play in the first round if you match up with them. That's the reason that's significant. The other reason is significant is because our guy Eric Collins with the Hornets. I don't know if you saw the call yesterday, but as PJ Washington gets the ball under the basket

and is going up with the basket, he exclaims, Weak! I have never heard an answer to that in my life. He also did the Live in Lamella Loka when he did the three. He does every time to time. Yeah, he does every time at time. But screaming weak when a guy is going up under the basket,

I was dying. It's great. He's like that old head that hangs out at the park and just talks trash all day. It doesn't even pretend to want to play. I love Eric Collins. However, he will no longer be my guy. Ever since I heard that he turned down a potential guest turn at the Chris Vernon show. You know what? Hold on.

I think they're here. I'm going to take another crack. You'll take, you'll do it. You know what? I'm proud of you, Chris. So for those who didn't listen to a previous episode, Eric Collins, the play by, play the one of the best play by play guys in the league he uh he's he's he's a he's a personality and chris vernon is a fan of his christ vernon invited him to come on the chris vernon show his

local show at noon every day on uh youtube all right and eric collins turned chris vernon down wednesday tomorrow what they are in mid i will put in the request today who do you put that in with uh charlotte pr charlotte pr so last year it was eric is polite decline. But I will do this and you will find out whether or not he came. I will invite him again to come on tomorrow. DM him on social. He's got to be on social.

I'm not DMing him. No, I think you have to. It's serious. I don't think he is on social media. I've never seen him. I haven't either. I will put in the request. We will see. I'm going to take another crack at it.

You know what I'm proud of you. Don't give up. Don't give up. Don't be deterred. Don't be to sway. I won't. Who knows? Big fans of yours, Mr. Collins. Come on the show. Wee! Yeah, if he doesn't come on the show, you know what that is?

Wee! All right. So, we are a little past the midway point of the NBA season. You and I have both come up with three things we believe. Statements we are going to make. We will throw them to the other one. we will see if we can have an agreement on this, if we both believe said things.

Do you want to begin or do you want me to begin? I'm going to go first this time. All right. Okay. And mine are pretty saucy. These are things that I believe, but I've taken it like an extra notch because I know I'm not going to get full buy-in from everyone here.

I'm definitely not going to get full buy-in from you on this one. It's fair to say, regardless of what you think, Mr. Vernon, if you're being objective, unbiased, it is fair to say thus far in the 2024- 2025 regular season that the Oklahoma City Thunder have established themselves as the best team

in the Western Conference. Before we move on, do you agree with you? Yes. Okay. I thought we were going to disagree. I believe that the clear and a way, way. Number two

in the Western Conference are the Denver Nuggets. And here is why. After a slow start to the season, they have found their way. And they found, they didn't find some change in the couch cushions.

They found a $100,000 savings bond in the couch cushions in Russell Westbrook, who was playing for the veteran minimum who him and Yokic I saw some rumors and reports of their chemistry off the court, like during preseason, that there were this odd couple friendship like Yuki and Jha. But they have taken that and it is translated to the court.

They're pairing on the pick and roll and just finding each other in great spots to bring the best out of each other has been amazing. And if you haven't been paying attention, Jamal Murray in the last two weeks has started to maybe kind of look like Jamal Murray a little bit. And another thing, probably don't know about... I loved how much you couched that one.

The Denver Nuggets. The fourth best offense in the National Basketball Association per net rating. I wouldn't have guessed that. And the best player on the planet. So, when you look at playoff series, you ask yourselves a couple questions

about the combatants. Number one, who's the best player in the series? The answer is always going to be Nikola Yokic, no matter who they're playing. What sort of playoff experience are they bringing to the team? Oh, championship experience. Huh. Do they play defense? Average.

One of the best offenses in the league coming together, championship pedigree, been there, done that, MPJ playing better, Jamal Murray playing better, Russell Westbrook being a revelation, the Westbrook of Sons is, is right here in front of us. The Nuggets are clearly the second best team in the Western Conference. That is what I believe. Okay. All right.

So two things, I hate to help make your case, but I'm going to help you out. Two things that you did not mention, which you should have in making this case. Let me just... All right. Let me start off the bat.

It's asinine to say they're far. in a way. They're far and away. The second. That's where you lose me. If you wanted to present that they're the second best team and they have the most promised when it comes to the playoffs, this is something that is very difficult to disagree with given how they have played recently.

And they're far and away the second best team. But the two things that you should have mentioned is the three teams ahead of them have never done shit. Yep. and they have a great home court advantage. Those are the two things to me that are the most persuasive. The most persuasive to me are the three teams ahead of them have never done anything. They've never been to conference finals.

Memphis has been to the semis. Houston's there for the first time. Oklahoma City played a first round series last year and it's against the Pelicans. And then when they got to a vet team, they got beat by Dallas. And so you do have these, this team has a lot of reps, a lot of big spots that they've been in. And like I said, many series are decided by do I have the best player? Last year, that was not the case because Minnesota was uniquely built to deal with them last year. But Minnesota now ditched that.

And Minnesota, I think could have, I mean, obviously, I get it. We don't need to react. We'll get to Minnesota. The money thing and whatever else. But I mean, like, Minnesota was a bad matchup for Denver. But look, nobody's far and away to me after Oklahoma City. It's wide open. Nope.

But I don't disagree that Denver is right now. the most logical choice to make, especially given the Luke injury and who knows where they're going to be and what kind of setup they're going to have for playoffs. But far and away is ridiculous. What other team in the Western Conference

would you pick over the Nuggets in a seven-game series? There isn't one besides the fun. There isn't. You would not pick the Grizzlies over the Nuggets in a seven-game series. You wouldn't. You wouldn't pick the Rockets. The healthy Mavericks,

maybe, a healthy Mavericks, maybe. Who else? To your point, I do not think Memphis or Houston would be favored against them. No, and they shouldn't be. Right. And they shouldn't be. They have their bona fides.

You have to prove it. And also, it's not just that is, one of the reasons I wanted to bring them up now at the halfway point is because this, I literally on this podcast, probably two or three months ago, said they're wasting Yokic's peak and they need shooting and they need defense.

defense and Jamal Murray's not himself. MPJ's contract is terrible. This team needs a trade. They're broken. Blah, blah, blah. And now I look at them. I'm like, oh, pretty good. Yep. Going to the Western Conference Finals. Might even beat the Thunder. All right. Let's run through these. Look, you goaded me

into Oklahoma City Love right off the bat, which is unbelievable. But now I'm going to back that up. All right. Here's something I believe, which I will be interested to see if I can get you on board. with.

So several weeks ago, right before the Embrates Cup, I am a part of the Timbont Temp's poll that he puts together. Straw polls. Shouts to see me good times. So I give my five MVP guys. And at that point, I believe it was Nicolioch, she was having historically great NBA season, statistically, maybe the best season ever. And that may be so in the end.

And then Gilders-Alexander, I think, got dinged because some people changed their votes after the finals of the Emirates Cup, where it was kind of this feeling of too much too soon. Now, I will say, I did not change where I had Gilded's Alexander, but I did take, I thought it was humorous, that there were people that voted him as the MVP, and then because of that game and seeing Janus destroy them, they went and switched said vote.

I had him in the same place both times, right? Whether I had him second place, you know, when I first voted, and I did not change my vote after that Emmerich. Yeah, I think that practice is kind of asinine, And unless you had Janice and SGA 1 and 2 and they went head to head, then I could see perhaps that swaying your boat. But if they've already played like 35 games up to that point, like, what are we doing? Okay.

So here's where I stand on this. I think in the next straw poll, I think in the next straw poll, I believe, Gilges Alexander is going to end up being the first unanimous MVP since Curry and 1516. Oh, first of all, that's ridiculous. There's no chance that happens.

There's absolutely no chance that happens. No, it's a narrative. It's a narrative. And everybody wants a different guy. Everybody wants to get away. Look, Yoki just got the three. Embed got his. Yonis has got his.

Now this is best player, best team. It's going to be back to the way it used to be where it's the best player on the best team who has great statistics is going to win it and he is going to be the first unanimous MVP since 1516 when Curry did it.

Okay, a couple things. Number one, I have absolutely no shame in saying that I enjoy this being a narrative award. I would vote for players that have not won it before just because they have not won it before. I do like to see a variety of people make their MVP speeches.

I'd like to see a variety of teams have MVP players. And I think that having an MVP trophy awarded to you during a playoff run can help accelerate and fuel said playoff run. I am not an objective number cruncher who says, well, if it's the best player every year should have been Jordan for 10 years and LeBron for 12 years,

I enjoy the variety. I like to sprinkle in a little Steve, Nash, you know, a little Joel Embed during these runs. You're not unique. And I think that that will happen this year. I think this year, barring serious changes is going to be the year that SGA wins the MVP. I agree with you there. I think unanimous is ridiculous. And you just added that word because you knew it was not a spicy enough take. If you just said, I believe that SGA is going to be the MVP because he is favorite. Unanimous is not going to happen. You know it's not going to happen. Why?

There's a zero percent chance that happens. Why? Because people love to be different. People love to be contrarians. People love to show that they know more than everybody else because they don't agree with the norm. They don't agree with the status quo. They're not just going to fall in line with the rest of the lemmings, but as they jump off the cliff. I'm not like the rest. I'm not like the rest of you, Sheeple. I see the game in a different way. The real MVP is actually Rudy Gobert. Like it's going to be some stupid person is going to say something like that.

There's always one, dude. There's always one. It's a public vote and everybody loves him. He is America's darling and they're the best team and everybody gets a giant erection every time they talk about that team and everyone is going to vote for him unanimously. Watch. Watch what I say.

Watch what I say. That's fine. It's fine if you don't want to agree with me. Watch what I say. I do not believe so, but I think one of the things that is important is what does this team look like when you don't play? And we had that opportunity over the weekend. And the Mavericks, I believe it was Friday night. Yep.

They made pretty light work of the Thunder without SGA. And I was watching that game looking at my friend J. Dub and saying, here's an opportunity for you, buddy. Here's an opportunity for you to be the hub of the offense. To be the guy with the ball in his hands. It looked like a little too much for him right now in his career. All right. Look, we're going to get to talk about this.

And, you know, I would say sooner than later, because Bontemps will be sending out that text at some point soon. And I will bet you, I will bet you that there's not one person that Bontem's polls that doesn't have SGA. number one. Not one. So we'll see. We'll see. And his poll has been very, very accurate in terms of determining what ends up happening. Here's my next one. It is very simple. After making the conference finals last year and having one of the most promising superstars in the entire league,

one of the most promising future stars we've seen in decades, the Timberwolves with one single trade have ruined their franchise, have ruined their future, and they will not see a single playoff game this season. That is what I believe about this team. Your thoughts. You mean they will not see a second round? No, no, no. They will not see a playoff game. They will lose in the plane. You got to get a little spicy with these. Oh, wow. No, I would. No, I would. wouldn't bank on that. I wouldn't bank on them. Not big. I wouldn't bank out the top big of the playoffs. But, but, but. They're a half game away from being out of the play in. Look, I, look, I get to stand on this. The original sin, and I get it, I had to say at one point, I had to say,

look, if you got to the Western Conference finals, then it worked out. I'll take it out on this. But now that was preemptive, because, or I mean, that was too, that was premature. Because now as time is played out. It is born itself. The sin was the Gobert deal. Was it? This sin. Yes. You should have just kept Look, Towns is a great pairing with Ant.

It's perfect. You want a stretch five that opens up the floor. He is unguardable one-on-one. It could get to the basket at will. And so what you do is you surround him

with shooting. And instead, they took a guy that can do literally dick offensively. Nothing. Can't do anything. Except take up, get in the way. It's just in the way. And to me having that towns and read and whatever, by the way, it wasn't Rudy O'Bare guarding Nicola Yokic last year.

It was towns. It was towns. So what are we talking about? What are we talking about? You needed him for what? Because, theoretically, you needed him because if you have to go against a Nikola Yokic, right? I mean, to me, that was the sin. To me, that was the sin.

And it's a sin that he will continue to pay for, right? Oh, I think it's, I think the Carlinth and Towns Trade is much worse. And again, I understand the financial considerations. No, no, no, but you only make that because you have. You made the Gobert, sure. Correct. Because you can't pay all three. Listen.

And when I watched them make the Western Conference finals and beat the Nuggets, I had to take a long look in the mirror and say to myself, I guess that this Rudy Gobert trade worked out. That's right. They had a shot. They had a shot.

And they ran into a very hot Mavs team. Or else perhaps they would have lost the Celtics last year of the finals. But I don't, I think that this season is a quieter version of the Sixers season.

It's not injury. It's bad fit, bad vibes, weird quotes from Anthony Edwards, bad losses like the one to the Grizzlies and a roster that is not built to win in 2025. And I think that

they could be in a position where they have to win two playing games just to get the honor of losing to the Thunder. See, I just don't look. I think that, They're going to, ants gotten going. I think they can make a trade. And you look over the course of the past.

Hold on, Randall. But over, and as we talked about early in the pod, you can make addition by subtraction. Look, their losses, they got beat on Crazy Morant shot by two on January 11th. They lost by one to Golden State. They lost by seven to Cleveland. And then they lost yesterday by two on a, it's one shot. against Memphis, right?

It's an Edwards three. If he makes it, they win. If he misses it, they lose. They've got some interesting ones. These next four are going to be interesting. They're playing at Dallas, Denver, Atlanta, Phoenix. So we'll see how they come out of those. That sounds like one and three.

Maybe, maybe, but I mean, look, Edwards has been very, very good recently. And I think that they can, I think they can make a move that can help. them in these next three weeks. Let me ask you a question. Assuming they will not finish ahead of the standings of the Thunder Rockets, Grizzlies, and Nuggets, right? We can say that.

I'm going to name some teams. You tell me if they're going to finish ahead of the standings of this team, the Minnesota Timberwolves, Los Angeles Clippers. So right now they are, how many back from how many back are they from the Clippers? I'm going to guess two and a half being.

are two and a half. Yeah, two and a half. Yeah, I could see that. Clippers do it by, with defense. So you think that the timber wills. I could see. I'm saying I could see. Again, I could foresee that.

I could see all of them. I could see Minnesota ahead of everybody from. It's basically Clippers, Lakers, Mavericks kings between them and a couple games. And they all have reasons for me not to believe in them or to believe that their second half of the season could be worse than their first half. Well, I believe this team will be a playing team and they will lose in the point. All right. That's what I believe.

All right. My next believe is the Celtics are fine. You know, there's been a bunch of, a bunch of grousing over the course of the past couple of weeks. They don't even care. Look, they're bored. They're bored.

I believe that they're bored. They cared yesterday because they wanted to beat their ass so that Jason Tatea could not talk to Steve Kerr. I mean, come. on bro, they're 30 and 13 with a plus 10 point differential. Like, what are we talking about? They're like, okay, so they are, they've had a swoon here because they've gotten bored. And look, if it weren't for Cleveland having this crazy ass season where they're like,

you know, have six losses. Yeah, on pace for 80 wins or whatever. 30 and 13 is an amazing record to have. And yet it's like the sky is falling with Boston. But some of those 13 are pretty gnarly. That lost the rafters was weird. They lost the Hawks twice. They lost the cats.

They're fine. They lose weird games. Yeah, but look, it is everybody, it is a different deal when you're the biggest game that comes to town. Everybody wants to beat you when you're the reigning champion. That is true. And so you have to have this like laser-esque focus every night because Toronto, You know, everybody's now in the stands. And now you're, now you're an opposing team draw in a way that you haven't been before.

And now there's jerseys in the stands in the way that there haven't been before when you go on the road. Like, yes, they've been good. But once you win a title, it's a different deal. And I think this team is, I think they're bored. I think they're bored. I think they don't have their edge. And I think when they go through these slumps where they don't make threes, Yeah, they're going to look like crap and they're going to take some losses.

But, you know, wait me up when the playoffs start and then I'll evaluate them. I disagree. Okay. I think there's something to these losses. I think there's something to these losses. I don't think that this team is bored. I don't think they're just sleepwalking through the regular season so they can flip the switch in the playoffs. I think there's fundamental flaws.

I think that there's been some. Their sleepwalking is 30 and 13. They're losing games they should win. They're losing games. The same team that beats the Warriors by 40 shouldn't lose to the Hawks two nights before. They are 30 and 13. No, dude. And I will say that here's something that no one's really talking about.

Okay. What should they be? Right now they're 30 and 13? Yeah. 33 and 10. Okay. All right. So three games different.

Okay. Listen. here's what no one's talking about. Drew Holiday isn't really Drew Holiday from last year anymore. Remember when Drew Holiday took the bucks to a championship? Yeah. And then switched jerseys and took the Celtics to a championship. Want a couple like gold medals in between?

Like his defense isn't as locked down Lou Dort as it used to be. It used to be we'll put Drew Holiday on Player X and Player X will have an off night. And it's not the same anymore. And it happens to everybody. He's getting a little older. his shooting was never really lights out but it's not that great they don't

they don't they they don't actually don't even take as many threes as they used to take what this they're taking less recently have to prove on a game in game out basis anymore like seriously so you think that this Celtics team that is overrelying on three point shooting is just going to magically decide to make them in the playoffs

because there's a logo on the court Yes. I don't think so. I also think I don't think you can break out of bad habits and build over 81 games. People are going to blame this. People are going to blame this,

but the truth is that their competition's better. That those top four are actually really good this year. And last year, they didn't have to face people on their way to it. So it's not going to be because they are significantly worse. It's because they're actually playing good teams. we'll see okay I don't I don't see the Celtics

going to the NBA Finalsas I think they may not they may not my pick was the next I think this is an off year for the Celtics I think it's an off view for the Celtics okay next one this is my last one thank God

this comes from a place there's certain players that I just irrationally like more than other players like Larry Nance Jr you can't tell me Larry's Nance Jr. It's not the future of the NBA and this is another one of them

that I always like because I love players that play play defense. I believe that Colin Sexton will be this year's PJ Washington. I believe there are contending teams right now that are a Colin Sexton away from a second round exit and a conference finals exit. Oh, I'd give anything to have Collins Sexton.

Look, you and me, we're on the same page. I even wrote an article back to Alabama. Anybody that's been a longtime listener of the mismatch knows. I mean, he's been my guy, I mean, for so many years and he's just been trapped on bad teams. I, you know, they're holding him out right now too. Have you noticed this? He's not playing. And then, hey, he didn't play.

Rest, right? After he hadn't played in three games. Yeah, they said rest. They literally, they just wrote, they didn't even make up an injury. They're like, not rest. So, yeah, I think he is going to be out of the boot. I think you're right. I think he is the PJ Washington of this year.

I've always liked to. wait to see him in a playoff environment. I've always liked him. I like the Garland sexton, Sexton backcourt with the Cavs. I mean, obviously Mitchell's good, but like, I always like Sexton. No one's paying attention to him because he's on the jazz. But if you put him on a team, this is not going to happen, but like the Warriors or whatever, who can't do anything with step off the floor.

Like, that problem is solved. I love Conce. I do, too. And I think he's going to make a big difference for competing to. You and me, we're on the same page when it comes to that. first time this buck last one I believe the West

is wide open but Orlando is the only chance to crash the top four in the east all right let's go with the second part first that's spicy enough for you um well the second part no um there's gonna be people

that are we can are we considering the bucks Atlanta oh yeah no no Atlanta was cute while it was happening but they've not People are still going to be a little scared of Philly. I'm saying, look, the top four right now are Cleveland, Boston, New York, Milwaukee. The only thing that can break that up is Orlando.

I believe. And I mean, so if we already have Paolo back, in theory, Franz will be coming in three weeks, right? Two weeks? Yeah, and then so. If you give me an extended run of Suggs, Paolo, Franz, two months leading into the playoffs, I could see that because of the defense that they play

and what Paolo brings, and Franz brings offensively. But you agree with me that there's nobody else. Below the four. No, yes, of course. Of course. I absolutely believe with you there. But that's why I started with the second part.

Because the first part, I definitely disagree. The West is wide open. wide open wide open I mean past Oklahoma City okay because there is not a team in the West that I would pick the seven game series

over Oklahoma City and I wouldn't think for a second about it but there's all manner of second round matchups that we could see for sure yes for sure but predicting

look I'm talking about East semis okay those top four seeds there is a There is a scenario where I could convince you, okay, I know you're in love with Denver and they're four right now. Okay. But let's just say, okay, there is a scenario where the second round of the Western Conference playoffs, we have had this happen recently too, does not include two of the top four seats.

Yeah, I can see that. You know what I'm saying? possible. No. If the Mavs are down there, Mavs, Timberwolf, Sons, they're all going to be out of the top four. Lakers, Lakers, Lakers, Clippers. Yeah, those are all tough facts. Yeah, the Lakers, AD and LeBron can beat you in a playoffs. That could definitely happen. Here's the problem.

And the Easter conference is not like that. I see what you're saying. If you do go apples to apples, correct. These top four are solidified in the east. In that, by comparison, the West is quote-unquote wide open. Sure. But calling the West wide open is asinine because the thunder are far and away the favorites to win the West. Now this and this goes back to our Philly conversation. Philly is the only one because those teams that we're talking about at the possibly in the you know the bottom

40s. Even Philly dude really? I got you but the I'm saying the bottom four seats in the West those are teams that are veteran teams that have been. Dangerous teams. They have playoff success. They have been there. Hall of Famers. They're men. Hall of Famer. And it's a lot of young teams that have had good regular seasons at the top. The same way that we saw Memphis get beat by the Lakers and we saw the Kings get beat by the Warriors a few years back.

You've got to get past Kevin Durant, Luca Donchich, or LeBron James. You're going to have to beat them four times in a seven-game series. And are you going to be favored to do it? Yes. That's different than doing it. Correct. That's different than doing it. But I think, or in the east, even through halfway through the season,

we've kind of flushed that out where I think, you know, again, any of these teams gets injured, it's all anything is possible, much like we saw. Of course. Once Yonis went out, you know, the box lost last year. Yeah, no, Luca Dodgers goes out. Yeah, the Mavs don't look so scary. Totally, of course.

But, but Orlando is the chance to crash that best four in the east. party. In fact, the only chance. Best chance and I think only chance is also correct, but I don't see it happening, even with a fully healthy Orlando. No, they're going.

I don't think I would, I wouldn't pick them over the bucks for the most susceptible team in that top four news. I think, I think good, hard-fought series is their play probably. Yeah.

Yeah, it'll be a building block year. Correct. Take your lumps. You take your lump. like you did last year. You lost to Cleveland last year. You take some more lumps this year. And then next year is the biggest set.

They went seven in Cleveland, right? I think that was a game seven. Yeah. Yeah. Not mistaken. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good series, too. I mean, it was on freaking animal planet, basically.

You're playing at like two in the afternoon on Discovery Channel. The lead in. I swear to God. Steve Irwin's son with the. lead in. I swear to God, last year we were doing this preview and there was a like a series page that was like updating all the time on NBA.com. They didn't even have one. The magic in the cabs. There was no writer that was updating a series page on NBA.com. I swear to God. It was definitely like one of those when you get those like those four game nights, there's always one game that just doesn't exist.

And it was every time it was the magic and the calves. That's right. Hilarious. All right. It is always a pleasure. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez as always. And Jacoby, I'll talk to you later this week. There you will.

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