The Mismatch - Will Giannis Want Out? Plus: The Rockets Need a Star, the Hungry Wolves, and Which 3-1 Series Can Still Go the Full Seven

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

Verno and Jacoby break down Monday night’s playoff action starting with the Warriors’ thrilling 109-106 win over the Rockets to take a 3-1 series lead (01:18). They then debate how real the Cavs are after a complete beatdown of the Heat as well as their expectations in the next round (16:05). With the news of Damian Lillard’s injury, where do the Bucks go from here? As an older team with aging vets, the guys debate if its time for Giannis to walk away from Milwaukee (21:37). They then discuss the Wolves-Lakers series and the performance of Anthony Edwards as well as Naz Reid and Jaden McDaniels (28:39). Next, the guys discuss how Karl Anthony-Towns and Jalen Brunson have carried the Knicks against the Pistons (39:27) and give predictions on which 3-1 series they think can still go the full 7 games (59:39). Leave us a message on our Mismatch Voicemail line! [phone] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David JacobyProducers: Jessie Lopez and Tucker TashjianSocial: Keith Fujimoto Music: "New Frontier": JG1MFMNUC8ZGQBSA Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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And listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Remember, you must be 21 or over and present in select states. If you have a gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-dashelp.com. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me see it does every week from the ringer.com is Dave Jacoby. Listen, if we're going to stay up late and record after the games, at least we get a game like that. What a game in the bet.

We just got done watching the Warriors take now a commanding 3-1 lead over the Houston Rockets, winning 109 to 106. Fred Van Bleet misses a three at the buzzer. One of the very few threes, he missed the entire night because he was, they got a hero performance out of Van Gogh. BLEET. But as we know, you will see the graphics that come up on the screen every time this happens. We just saw it happen in the Timberwolves versus the Lakers series. When teams go up 3-1, it's like 96% of the time they go on to win the series. So now Houston is going to find themselves really up against it to be able to come back in this series. And Jacoby, they had their chances tonight.

I mean, they even had a chance right down at the very end of the game, had a chance to get a game winner. Dremond gets the stop on Shengoon. And then at that point, honestly, with the last possession of the game, I thought, go early and crash that offensive glass because between Adams and Thompson and everybody else, you're going to get a second crack at this. Warriors tried to go big. They put Looney in there to try to wrestle with Stephen Adams.

But that's the moment and the ball does come off the rim. Shengoon misses it. And Jimmy Butler, the hobbled one, who Dylan Brooks should have just left alone, skies over everyone and snatches the rebound, goes down to, it gets fouled, goes down to the other end, knocks down the free throws. Now you've got the three-point margin. First half, you know, it looked like Jimmy Butler was a shell of himself and not really that into it. And I can't remember who mentioned it at halftime that said, little Grant Williamsey from last year getting, you know, when Jimmy Butler started yelling at the guy.

And you had that moment towards the end of the first half where Jimmy Butler is yelling at Dylan Brooks. And trust me, I covered Dylan Brooks the first six years of his career. I'm sitting there going, don't do this. Don't do this, right? Sometimes you got to let sleeping dogs lie, brother. You know, and there it was that Jimmy Butler showed up huge in that second half. And man, oh man, what a game. I mean, what do you think it's, you know, obviously, look, it's so fresh.

It just ended. But what consumes your thoughts when you think about what we just watched? A couple things. From the warrior side, as the winners will start with them, it was very clear that the Houston Rockets were not going to allow Steph Curry to beat them again as he did in game three. The warriors were loaded up on Steph Curry, and they said, someone else beat us.

And Pajemski was that guy. You know? And Chabano, Chabano hits some big threes. Pajemsey hits some big threes. Jimmy Butler had a huge second half. is they took away Steph Curry and the Warriors, and I'm pretty surprised about this, the Warriors,

the other Warriors won the game for them. This was not a big Steph Curry game. He actually missed a huge shot at the end of the game. And the same thing that we've all said all season long about the Houston Rockets is who is their go-to score? Who is their guy when you need a bucket? And in this game, it was Sangoon, who had an amazing second half.

He played great. but like a turnaround jump hook from 17 feet, dude, like, it's one thing to take a jump hook. He's been taking jump hooks his entire career from seven feet, eight feet. Those go in. But from 17, like that was a bad shot in that spot. And there's no question that, you know, you wanted it to be a guy that had been scoring or had scored for you

earlier in the series in Jalen Green. And man, oh, man, he's not even on the, he's not even on the court. He's not even on the court anymore. You could see E. Meo Doka just fuming at some of the mistakes that he made, obviously defensively, most importantly. But on the Shengun front, that was just aided incredibly

by the Draymond Green foul trouble. I mean, I got it. I understand people resent Draymond Green. It got feisty in that first half when he got the flagrant, but he didn't get thrown out of it. of the game after he got into the tussle with Tari Isson. But if we just evaluate and sometimes it's not always going to show up in the box score, but there's no way you couldn't watch that game.

And you see he was locking up Shen Goon. And then he got in the foul trouble. And he just was not able to compete tonight. I mean, he ended up getting 30 minutes in the game. But the job he's able to do. on Shengoon versus literally anybody else on their team. And that too big thing for Houston was a massive problem for Golden State. It will be instructive to think about regarding going forward if they play against,

it would be better for them probably to play the Warriors from that point of view rather than Minnesota, because Minnesota is going to make them look small too. but you have that double big lineup. And you could see in the absence of Draymond, like Kerr's just trying to figure out what to do with it. Like, all right, I guess I'll try quitting post. Like he dusted off Trace Jackson Davis for a little bit to try to get some minutes with it. And, you know, what an unbelievable strategy moment that takes place in these games

where the whole game flipped when Adams came in. I mean, Adams, I got to go look at his plus minus, but it's got to be severe. They go to Hacker Adams. Here's my question. Plus 16 for the game. Plus 16 in a three point game. They go to Hacker Adams and then EMA takes him out of the game. I want to see him take a couple free throws.

He was just one for two from the line when he had a chance, you know, like 30 seconds earlier. I want to see him stay in the game and see if he can make two. Just see if he can take them out of it because I feel like EMA just surrendered. surrendered Adams's minutes until the final two minutes when you can't file, blah, blah, but like, I thought that was a, I wanted to see Adam stay in the game. He was that effective. Oh, my God, and defensively. I mean, you had, you had Jimmy Butler tried to go to the basket, Draymont tried to go to the basket, Trace Jackson Davis tried to go to the basket, Quentin Post tried to cock one. Like, you had all of these blocks and just, even when he was a

blocking shots, he was wreaking havoc in front of the basket. And then every time the Rockets would miss a shot. It just takes three guys to try to keep him off the offensive glass. I mean, his impact was so huge. And then, of course, they went to the Hacker Adams thing and they had to pull them out of the game. And again, that's something that you can wonder

if EMA O'Doka should have done that differently because in many cases, you felt like the best chance they have at score. They just have a real problem scoring again. any time the warriors can set up their defense. You know, in that first half, a third of their points, basically, were off of turnovers.

Like, these are just pick sixes in many of the cases. I mean, I think they said at half time, this was like, the game was in the low 50s, and I remember them saying they had 17 points off turnovers in the first half. I'm like, damn, man. So if you got a 30 or points off of that, and then you're catching the offensive. rebounds on the other side. That was the way that they were going to be able to stay mega competitive is to play the possession game against the

Warriors. But look, it's a strategy thing that they decided to go one way with. And I guess when you lose, you could say you should have done it differently. Sure. But it came down to a shot, right? That's the moment. You've got to get a bucket.

You didn't get a bucket. The, uh, the rockets have. half court offense is just, it's just very disappointing. Like they were after a timeout, like a full break in the action. They had four minutes to set up a play. And it ends up being a Jabari Smith contested 27 foot three. I don't know how they end up with that. And then the next possession, it's literally Van Blit dribbling around for 22 seconds.

Just not, no one's taking him a pick. No one's setting off ball screens. There's no movement. It's just him at the top of key dribbling around. And then he gets blocked by pods from behind. And then the next possession is eternal. Like it's just they cannot score in the half court. They can't do it.

Well, because they're out there with guys that don't have to be honored as shooters. You know, Van Vleet shot the cover off the ball tonight, but he had been going into this game, literally the worst shooter in the playoffs thus far. And so he showed up in a big, big way. But, you know, nobody's worried about Dylan Brooks standing out there. Nobody's worried about Thompson standing out there. Obviously, if you're part,

playing Adams in there. That's another none. And so you're really counting on Fred or Shengu to get that thing going. And that's what makes the unplayableness of Jalen Green be a bridge too far. Because it's like you need this guy to be the guy that can beat somebody off the dribble. Just so you can start to break down the defense and whip that thing around and maybe get some easy buckets. You had some crazy drives by Amman Thompson in that early. fourth where, I mean, he's just hanging in the air.

Yeah, right. But it's just, you know, you're not going to be able to space them out in a big way because they're not terribly worried about you shooting the ball. And then you don't have that many guys that are going to beat you off the dribble either. So it makes it really hard. Still, hung tough, got the warriors in a gutter war. And as you mentioned, did an unbelievable job on target number one, which was Curry. Yep.

This speaks exactly to why the Butler thing has been so. immense. So, okay, you did a great job on Steph Curry. Jimmy Butler had 27, six and five. And I think, how many of you have the first half? Like, six? Like, he was, he didn't even, it was barely, I didn't even notice him on the floor in the first half in the second half. I told you, Dillabrook should have left that man alone. For real. And it's, listen, I'm going to take it too far. Do you mind if I take it too far, Chris Vernon? Yeah. It's so obvious that the Rockets need a star. They need a go-to, they need a KD, they need to Yannis, they need to go big game hunting this offseason. It's right there.

They've got tons of young players. They've got draft assets. They need to go big game hunting this offseason. And I'm sure we'll talk about Orlando later, but it's so obvious where Orlando needs someone who can put the ball in the basket from beyond the ark. Like it's, they have glaring, glaring needs of these two young teams that are just right there in front of your face. Because That Shangoon 17-foot jump hook was ridiculous. It was ridiculous. Well, and as you know, they have the assets to pull this off in between, you know, draft capital, young players.

I mean, they have the third pick of the draft from last year that doesn't play. Doesn't play. Right. So, I mean, they've got, they've got an abundance of things that they could put together in a deal to attain whatever they wanted to attain. but look, this is one of those where it's like first time through. I've told you, I've lived this so many times. You know, Memphis was the two seed two years in a row playing against teams like this. You play against these veteran teams and this is,

and then you're sitting there and you're going back afterwards and you're thinking about all the ways it could have been different. All the things you could have done different. All the, you know, oh, this guy didn't play well, this guy didn't play well, this guy. But, I mean, this is what happens when we get to the playoffs, right? And you've got these guys, these steady hands that it's like it's going to come down to, in many cases, two or three, like winning plays. And Draymond got the stop. Jimmy got the rebound.

Jimmy knocked down the free throws. He knocked down. I mean, look, trust me, I've been through this so many times. Because you're going to sit there. You're also going to go, if we just would have made our free throws. They played well enough to win. They just would have dug this. Oh, they missed like 12 free throws.

I know. The Rockets played well enough to win. They played well enough to win that game. I think this should be a two-two series. But I thought that Dylan Brooks, man, like, just putting your hand on a jump shooter's midsection is just, it's not going to change anything. At the end of a shock. No one's going to miss. No one's going to miss because of that.

At the end of the shot clock, no less. Yeah. And Shangoon, with the same thing at the end of the shot clock, going for that curry up fake. No, that's a losing play versus the winning plays, right? Exactly. Things are going to come down to. And the vet teams and the guys that have the experience, they're going to make the winning plays,

the goofies, the young guys, they're going to make the losing plays. And it happens over and over and over again. You've seen it in the Nick's Piston series, which we will get to. Same kind of deal. It's like the margins are so thin. They're so thin.

And so, and in many of these cases, you see the same thing happening. So that was the game that happened tonight. Obviously, the Warriors are totally in the driver's seat now after winning that. That's not to say that they won't have to do it back home in a game six, because I think that that's totally plausible. Totally possible. I mean, like the Rock has played well enough to win this game. It could easily be two-two.

And going back to Houston, they did a really good job on Curry. And they caused a lot of problems for the Warriors offense. And this is a, and it's not, right, three to one is not indicative of the competition level, right? The game count is not the indicative of the competition level. What was indicative of the competition level. And big shout out to the Miami Heat for getting my beloved Grizzlies off the hook. because now now they are no longer the most disgusting first round performance. Oh, yeah.

That is taking place. This is look great. I didn't think someone who's going to lose by more than 51, but off the hook, off the hook, courtesy of the Miami Heat who ended up losing their series. And the difference between the two series is at least the Grizzlies competed in games three and four. It just got progressively worse for my. Miami, who ended up losing, I read tonight, by 122 points in the four games, making it the most lopsided series in NBA history.

That's a 30.5 a game? Jesus. Did you see the Bama out of bio quotes afterwards when they were asking about changes in the offseason? And he, I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like, yeah, if you know that guy, with the silver hair, everybody better be on watching, talking about Pat Riley. Like, yeah, this is not going to be okay. This is for sure not going to be okay. So the whole league is sitting there going, hey, if we want any heat players, they're going

going to be available because he's not. He's not even going to want to look at these people anymore. Tyler Hero had such a good season. I love Tyler Hero's regular season. And he played really well in the playing games. But to finish one for 10 with four points in a closeout game, after you said, after game three, he was like, yeah, we're not going to go out of four. Like, no, it's not going to happen. And Daris Garland had called him out personally and said the goal is to attack Tyler Hero.

Yeah, that's a tough way to go out. That is, that was not heat culture. No. And I don't really know what they do this awesome. They're always in rumors because they're Miami, but like, I don't know, you know, building around Bam and Tyler is the plan, but I don't know, that seems to have a low ceiling. Seems to have a low ceiling. I mean, this is got to be the absolute worst all around.

First, your team gets beat by 1,000. And then you got to watch Jimmy Butler have 27, 6, and 5 and say, I got my joy back. After the game, it's like, oh, God. Well, they didn't. The thing is, they didn't lose Jimmy Butler and free agency. Right. I know. They traded for him.

And Andrew Wiggins hasn't done anything in a heat uniform. You watch the games. It's like he's not even there. I know. Unbelievable. So that, those games have, uh, those are the ones that we had tonight. We had the, the first one, honestly, it was background noise. Insane.

Like from basically. It was like 64. to 25. Yeah. By like 8.30 Eastern. And I guess one of the questions that I know you wanted to talk about was how much, does it make it a hard Cleveland evaluation? I mean, this was, this heat team was like a, what, a 37 win?

I mean, so they were not good, right? They're like a 37 win team this year. but the pummeling that just took place by Cleveland, where Cleveland literally just stole their soul. It's how much of it is Cleveland is an absolute juggernaut, and how much of it is, that's a disgrace, what we just watched with Miami. How are we doing the ledger here?

the jury is still out on Cleveland you know I think they're going to face the pacer's most likely I mean without dame the bucks I don't give much of a shot to come back and win three straight um so that's that's when we'll really evaluate this this to me is more of a disappointing performance from the heat

than it is impressive from the cab I think I agree with you the cats the calves are great but I think we're going to have a dog fight with them in Indiana that's what I guess I get we're going to get a long series a six or seven with them in Indiana. Now, if they go out and pummel Indiana and take care of them in four or five,

then we're having a different conversation, obviously. But I think we watch both those teams. And part of watching tonight was, yes, Cleveland's fantastic, but what the hell is this? Like this Miami thing, this is not a playoff caliber team. This is recklessness.

I mean, this is crazy. No, and I think that both, Cleveland and the Pacers are firing on all cylinders right now. I think that's going to be a really good series. Because you watch these Pacers games, like it's not just Halliburton. You know, it's, it's, it's Nemhard, it's knee-smith, it's topping, it's like Turner. Like everybody's contributing in the same way with the Cavs. The Cavs are

so deep. Like they're like garbage time lineups. I know. I know. Well, and they were up by like 40 and Ty Jerome was still hitting. Yeah, they got good guys in the game. Yeah. Oh, my God, this guy's kicking the dead body. This is crazy. Well, let's just touch on the Pacers real quick because they are in their series. That Milwaukee series is still going on. But there is just a massive cloud that now hovers over Milwaukee, whenever it ends, right, for them this year.

First, the news on Lillard, which, as you know, one of my favorites, I mean, I absolutely, love daming. I love small guards. I love the dame time thing. He's been one of my favorite players to watch over the course of the last decade. He's had those unbelievable playoff moments in Portland. And I lamented the fact that the chemistry never worked with Janus. It just never took. It never became what I wanted it to become. And now it never will, right?

Because he's got this Achilles injury at his. age with his contract. And for all the discussions that have been had about Janus in years past, it's something that, you know, he's 34. Brooke is 37. They really don't, they've got limited draft picks. They don't really have any up and coming players. They don't have cap room.

It's like, I'm gone. If I'm Janus, I'm gone. Why are we beating around the bush? It is what it is. I'm gone. I am not playing on the bucks next year if I'm Janus Tentacompo. And I just think that that's something that we all need to stop asking as a question and start figuring out where he will play next year.

Because you mapped it out. They don't have up-and-coming players. They're going to develop and make a leap. They're not going to contend without Dame. Dames are they not going to come back and be Dane at 39 off of an Achilles. And if you're Janus Tentacupo, you have to say, Milwaukee, I love you. I love this franchise. You won a championship. Put a banner up there. But please send me to another team that I can contend for a championship with.

Boy, I tell you this, my boy, John Horst. What a deal. Getting an extension is the GM there last week. Oh, yeah. Because now you got some safety by you. I don't know. He's got some work to do. You weren't, you weren't. It was a long-running joke with me and Kevin back in the day. would ever every time john horse comes up that's my best friend john horse because years ago my one of my beloved friends from way back sonny vicaro the godfather grassroots basketball we're at the all-star game and i go and i meet him and his wife pam down in the hotel lobby i'm sitting there and everybody comes up and they you know i watch all these NBA executives and NBA people and players and whoever they come and they kiss the ring you know they come the godfather's there right so i'm

sitting there and me and this other guy are just sitting there talking like we're talking about basketball life everything right young guy who's sitting with me and uh finally after like five 10 minutes i'm like so john what do you do he's like i'm the gm of the bucks and i was like what oh and it dawned on me i have no idea who at that time i had no idea who the gym of the bucks was And I had just been sitting there talking to this guy for like 10 or 15 minutes. And he tells me, I felt so dumb. Oh, I felt so dumb. But anyway, every time something happens with John Horst, somebody will hit me up on Twitter,

they'll be like, hey, your guy. And so this guy, last week I saw somebody tagged me that he had signed an extension. I guess Phoenix or I know, who was it? There's one of these teams that's fired their guys that I guess had talked to him thought about hiring him. So then he got, he got, you know, a new contract from his own team. But I say that to say, whenever that happens, you are less inclined to feel like you have to win tomorrow, right? You might be more confident in, okay, if this is what it is and we have to do the rebuild,

at least I'm secure, right? I'm going to get to do this on my terms because, look, that series is not over. I don't want to bury them completely. Oh, it's over. But it's not technically over. I got it. It is over. By the time we do another show, the series will be over.

That Pacers team is fun. All these teams are doing this 95 to 96 thing, and those bastards are still flying. Like, you feel like you got to get 125. So, Verno, I need you to help me out with something. Help me out with this, Ferno. Let me hear. Why do I dislike Tyrese Halliburton so much? Because he's corny.

I can't figure it out. No, that's why. Why do I dislike him so much? And I'm not alone because you saw the thing that came out where, you know, the players voted him as the most overrated player. It's got this Rudy Gober thing where it's like, Rudy Gobert has never done anything to me, but so many other people hate Rudy Gobert that it's sort of like contagious. I can't stand Tyrese Hallibur.

I can't stand him. Yeah, yeah. I hate him and I don't know why. I don't know. It's unfair how much I dislike him. I don't think it. I mean, I get it,

especially as a Knicks fan. He's 15 assists in the last game. I love passing. Yeah, maybe so. Did you hate Reggie Miller as well? You hated Reggie Miller, right? No, I didn't hate Reggie Miller.

Oh, I hated his ass tonight. If that bastard said, Goon one more time. I was going to throw something through my TV. They're the two seed. He's the best player on the team. And the guy sitting next to you is saying his name correctly a thousand times. I just never said his name with a hundred percent confidence.

Shane Goon. Shen Goon. Shen Goon. He says Shane dash Goon. Every time. And I'm like, shut up. You know what this buck thing made me think about And the impending Yonis trade, which I believe will happen in this office season, made me think about is,

do you remember that report that Nico Harrison called your buddy John Horst? Oh, he did. Remember, he called John Horst. Let's not forget that. John Horst said, nope, no chance. Oh, we don't want Luca. Yeah. Our guy's untouchable.

And now he's going to be shopping him this office. It'd be noble if Yonah stuck through it. noble. It would be. I would be disappointed. Wouldn't you be disappointed? I just, I just like this is

no. This is where I want to be. But that series is over. Let's talk about, let's talk about Lakers, let's talk about Lakers wolves. You want to talk about Lakers Wolves? So that's three ones.

All right. So I'll say this. You need to apologize to Anthony Edwards. I need to apologize to Julius Randall. I think you'd need to apologize to the entire Timberwolves franchise. Honestly.

I think that the biggest takeaway, as Anthony Edwards, but like, I thought Nas Reid and Jade McDaniels have been just so good. So good. Of course, Anthony, Anthony Edwards has 43 points and big baskets and whatever. But like, I just think that Nas Reid and Jay McDaniels have been so good on both ends of the floor. I tell you this, man. Speaking of GMs, A-Rod and that crew better figure out how to keep that guy. Oh, yeah.

Conley. Because even when we've thought he's made goofy-ass decisions, they are. Like right now, like very possibly about to be in a Western Conference finals again, right? You just watch this game and the idea that the wolves could not beat either the Warriors or the Rockets is not far-fetched at all. And again, they're not done with the Lakers, but they're in real pole position right now. and between their coach and the personnel decisions that have seemingly worked out. Because when you can perform at this high level, when it comes to playoff basketball, there's no other option except it's worked out.

And Edward is now evolving, you know, you've got. Dude, Sunday afternoon, 1 o'clock is the Knicks Pistons game. And you see Carl Anthony Towns hit a shot from behind the backboard and then hit a ridiculous. this like 28 foot three. And it's like, Carl Anthony Towns got us that win. Yep. And then the next game is the Wolves Lakers.

And it's Julius Randall and Dante DeVincenzo. And I'm saying there being like, is it possible that both teams improved via this trade? And it was really, and certainly it was more about salary when it came to Minnesota making that deal. It was more about salary. But it. at least in round one against a very high-level opponent,

it has worked out in spades. You know, I mentioned with Edwards, Coach Finch compared Edwards after the game. And I thought this was really smart. He said he's like a home run hitter that has now learned that situationally singles and doubles are good. You know what I mean? And that is the evolution of the player because he doesn't have like there was no hero ball down the stretch.

You know, he scored those buckets early in the fourth, right? And then he hit the free throws late. But kind of in between, he was letting the game be the game. And you saw, you've seen his evolution, even as this series has gone on on the other side, you have no subs after halftime for the Lakers. They wrote it out. They, you know, stats or, I mean, tracking on this goes back to 1997.

They say that's never happened where five guys have just played the entire half. And they made five of their last 18 shots and got out rebounded 13 to 9 and had two big turnovers. And it's hard to say that that was not. you know, fatigue set in on that team in the fourth quarter in a big way. I mean, they're missing everything. They're not, you know, they're getting out hustled to this stuff. And in the fourth quarters, the Timberwolves have absolutely owned the fourth quarters.

How about this one, Jacoby? You ready for this? 105 to 69. And the Lakers have shot over 30% once. In fourth quarter. Over 30% in the fourth quarter. Yes. 105 to 69.

I mean, in the fourth quarter so far. Dodgers was one for six in the fourth quarter. LeBron took two shots at zero points. Didn't do anything in the fourth quarter. No, 105 to 69 is the fourth quarter. Like it's hard to say that that is not a thing that is happening here, right? As the game goes on, you have seen Minnesota be able to be able to, be stronger and and and and and and the lakers have wilted in fourth quarters um and now they're in

that spot where it's like three to one 96% of the time the team that's up three to one wins and you know i guess as that ended and they got that win this weekend you think back i mean they smacked phoenix around in the first round you know and then they had that unbelievable game seven win at Denver. But on the other side, like, bro, if Minnesota closes this thing out, that's going to be two years

in a row that the Lakers have lost in the first round in five games. Because they lost in five to Denver last year to start this thing off. And so they will have lost in five games in the first round two years

in a row. And that doesn't fly. That's for sure. And I'm not saying, look, I'd imagine that we'll probably see a game six. I'd imagine that we'll probably see a game six and that the Lakers are not going to, you know, psychologically, there's breathing room for the wolves that does not exist for the Lakers. So you'd expect a team with that level of talent back against the wall after a few days off. We'll be able to rally up a, you know, a big effort. And so I'd imagine we'll get a game six. Jesus, man.

The, it's, how do I explain? The, the Lakers fooled me into thinking they were contenders because of their defense when, after the Luke of trade. You remember that, that run where they had really good defense for like three straight weeks. Maybe it was scheduling or whatever it was, but their, their improvement on defense tricked me into thinking they were contenders. But in this series, they can't get stops. Well, it's because you can't get stops. Because what happens on a game in, game out base. in the regular season,

your warts don't come to light. And as soon as somebody just starts game playing, I mean, you want a career high, just get the switch on to Luca. I mean, these guys are cooking him, bro,

McDaniel's cooking him and Randall's cooking him. And it's like, dude, he's, I mean, he makes, you know, he's such an outstanding offensive player,

but he is truly a target on defense. And, and Nico Harrison, and had to have just, I mean, I bet he pulled his pants off in the second half. I think that I got fooled in thinking they were contenders because of that defense, but I think that when you really look at it objectively, that's just not a winning roster. They don't have rim protection or a lob threat.

Well, they have five guys. They have five guys that JJ Reddy will play. I would play Jackson Hayes more. I don't know why Jackson Hayes is not on the floor more than, more than. he is. He starts the game and then he comes out and he just goes away. I think I think if you ask JJ Reddick, he would tell you it's

because he stinks. That's fair. But Luca can make you good. And also he can just like rim protect, rebound, lob threat. They need that. They need that. It is, it does feel like we got Luca

this year. We're going to make some tweaks to the roster in the offseason and really make a run next year. That's what it feels like for the Lakers if you're a Laker fan. Yeah, that's not what you signed up for. We lucked into Luca. Luca fell on our doorstep. I got it, but I mean, you lost Anthony Davis too.

The expectation for a Laker season is never to, I mean, that will be two years in a row you've lost in the first round of the playoffs. You've got LeBron James on your team. What? I could see, I think, I don't think the Rockets are coming back. I don't think the magic come back. I don't think the pissons are coming back, but I can see this Lakers. this Lakers team winning a couple.

All right. I can see it. Okay. I can see it. Of all the three one series, you're not letting go. I can see this one. Yeah.

You got Luca, you got LeBron. It's also worth saying that Luca was sick in game three. Like he just wasn't himself. The mismatch is brought to you by Fanduel. The NBA playoffs are finally here. And if you think you know how it's all going to go down,

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RG-dashelp.com. Can you see the pistons coming back? No. After the rest stole game four? Did you think

that was a foul? I did think it was a foul, but I mean, I got it. When you watched it live speed, when I watched it live speed, I did not think it was a foul.

I mean, I thought it was a foul just because J.B. Bickerstaff was at half court by the time. Losing his mind. By the time they were trying to get, you know, people off the court. There's a Knicks assistant coach who's like, whoa, whoa, dude. He was at mid court. Yeah.

Screaming. No, in all seriousness. It was a bad call for sure. But that was such a, that was such a physical hard fog game. And the crazy thing is to watch both the Lakers and the wolves and then watch the Knicks and that Pistons game. And then to think even how things have changed over the course of these series, you and I had this discussion about the Brunson foul baiting.

And it's because Cade was getting every little bump call. So now Brunson's going to overact and get on this way. And then you watch by the time you get to, you know, this game, nothing's getting called. Like nothing. These guys are mangling. each other. It's just warfare and I loved it. And so the fact that that didn't get called at the end was unsurprising to me because it's like guys are flying around everywhere. And I mean, it's just not.

And the other thing is, Kate, they blew a double digit lead. The Knicks made every big play down the stretch, winning plays down the stretch. And Kate had a chance to win that game. Right. So I got it. It's Tim Hardaway in the corner. Does Hart bump him for sure. obviously the reps have said that, but on the other hand, I don't think it is, I don't think it's the biggest deal of the world. And I think that what we have seen out of Brunton and Towns is because Brunton at 32 and 11,

towns at 27 and 9, the defense I thought Detroit played was incredible. And it just, like, that just speaks to how all, offensively off the chart brilliant those two guys were because I did not think that Detroit was defensively

deficient. These shots that they were making were just crazy over and over again. I just don't understand this. How does Jalen Brunson not be able to put weight on his ankle? I know. How does he, then he goes to

the back and comes out and then he's like jab stepping crossing over and finishing. Like, how do you not be able to put weight on the ankle and play like that in the fourth quarter? Without a limp. I mean, it had to have been a pain killer. I mean, whatever,

toward all, whatever it is. But I just, I'm just shocked by that. He could not stand. He couldn't stand. It was like, oh, I rolled my ankle. Let me just lace up the sneakers a little tighter and I'll be okay. And he couldn't stand.

And he is just, been so great and between him and towns, I was reading today that those two have scored 33 of the Knicks 37 clutch points. They are 11 for 16 on those shots. Oh, Jesus. Well, Brunson, that, remember on the inbound, Brunson was wide open. He missed a big one at the end of that game. Yeah, he did. He missed a big one. And I also think it's worth pointing out that Kade missed a big one. Kate had a good shot. Yes. He had a good shot. He had a good look. And look, It makes it difficult because, you know, in a dream scenario, you've got Isar Thompson out there on him or Ron Holland or who,

one of the, these guys are so offensively deficient that they can't play them. So they have to put Schrooter out there and he cooks Schrooter boy. Oh, man, he wears Schrooter out. And it's like, I mean, one of the things we thought was, Hey, man, you're going to have like one of these long athletic guys might give the smaller point guard a problem. But instead, he's just up against another little small guy and he's killing him. Killing them. I mean, I just, when you have Jalen Brunson, you have a shot.

You know, when you have Jalen Brunson, you have a shot. Well, and the other thing is you had the two, you had the big threes by Bridges from the corners. And then when we talk about winning plays, I know he fat. I mean, my God. The dude does literally everything. He does everything. Everything. Everything is.

How is he always in the mix of everything that is happening? It's crazy. His note counting stats. Like none. Oh, yes, he does. Dude, 14, 10, five assist,

four steals. Oh. And him threes. They're leaving him alone. I think it was a three for five from three. I'm doing on top of my head. No, no,

but I'm not just saying that was the game five stats. But I mean, it's just a little of everything. Yeah. He's hitting, and they're leaving him open from three, and he hit him. Yeah. He hit him. And that changes, that changes everything.

When the guy you leave open is hitting, you kind of don't have somewhere else to go, especially with that starting five, the Knicks have. I do feel, I feel bad for my Detroit fan. So I do because, because they went back, no, they went back home. And it's like, bro, they didn't get to, after 17 years, they didn't see a home playoff win, right? The only game, it might end with their one. win being on the road. But there's no, like, there's, they could have swept the Knicks.

I know. They're in, they had a lead in every single game. All right. In the fourth quarter. Let's go back to our original conversation. Right. And this is the Rockets versus the Warriors. And I've been on that side over and over and over.

And it could have been this and it could have been that. And it could have been that. And these things always come down to it. a couple plays and the vet team makes the winning plays and you don't and you sit there and you sit there and you wonder why oh if we did just had her free throws and if we did just done this and we just done this and it's like every time this happens every year and it's like you have a team like this the pistons could on it as you say there's a they could sweat they could certainly be reversed right now and be up three one instead of hell yeah yeah

Yeah. Yes. If this would happen, this would happen and this would happen. But it's just, that's why it doesn't happen, right? But you watch the heat, you watch the heat and the calves, you're like, the heat have no chance. It's not even competitive. Not.

But you watch the pistons in the Knicks. And yeah, it's 3-1. But this is a different 3-1 than the magic and the Celtics. Same with the, same with the rockets. Rockets could be up right now. Oh, yeah. They could be up in that series right now. Easily.

So, Verno, you mentioned this about the young teams. and the veteran teams that are making plays. And your team was matched up against the Oklahoma City Thunder, who you have labeled as a young team and doesn't have scars. You've mentioned this many times. And are you willing to say into a microphone that they will lose to either the nuggets or the clippers in the second round? I think that's very possible.

No, no, no, I didn't ask if it was possible. Well, you asked me this every time, and I do think the clippers would beat them. them. Nuggets? Maybe. It's tough. It's tough with Westbrook out and MPJ hobbled.

It's just tough. Yeah. I mean, look, I'll tell you this. I gained some respect for MPJ in that last game. That Joker was, he did get shot up before the game and played 42 minutes and hits a big shot. And like, was that outlet valve that they had to have? And obviously, look, that's serious.

is the best. It's that Gordon game winner. Oh, very rarely, I don't have some severe, I don't have a rooting interest in that. Like, whoever comes out of it comes out of it. I just want great hoops, and they have given me amazing hoops. Like, because I, there's part of me as I was watching it.

The end of the game, you know, because it all becomes Gordon and the game winner and that discourse. And it's like, somehow we have gotten used. to 36, 21, and 8. Like, nobody has made a big deal out of the fact that Yonkins, anyone else in the world. Like, can you imagine if somebody, like, if Shengun did that tonight, it would be the biggest topic everywhere.

It would be the most amazing thing that's happened. Oh, my God. He had 36, 21 and 8. We'd be talking about it. And everybody would be talking about it. And it's like, oh, yeah, and Yokic had 36, 21, and 8. Like, what? How is this a normal thing that could take place?

I think that's, one thing that's funny about this game is there's so much discussion about Aaron Gordon winning the game that it almost feels like the Nuggets sort of like rally back from some deficit. Oh, I know. But they were up, they were up 85 to 65. The Nuggets completely shit the bed in this game. They were, they really did. It was, hold on, I've got it here.

It's 8565. Yeah. Okay. Well, they were down 22 with 11 minutes left. Yeah. And then they were up one with 58 seconds left. So, I mean, that's a pretty. It's like the Nuggets really shit the bed in this one.

They really did. Like, this was a Nuggets victory. I chalked this up as a Nuggets win. I was just like, oh, this is, all right, Nuggets. All right, even the series, you'll see what happens in game five. But the way the Clippers battled back was. was discouraging if you're a Nugget support. Discourge.

Yeah, but now you have gotten home court back. I mean, they're going to have to beat Yokic on his home court. Yeah. Very, very significant. Obviously, with the way that played out, they were able to hold on. But you're right. The two Denver wins, same way that you were just talking about, right? Like, I were saying, like, these things, like, the margins are so thin that

the pistons and the Knicks could be a totally different series and the wolves and the Lakers maybe could be a different series and the Rockets and the Warriors could be a different series. A couple things here and there. Like, this could very easily be a sweep. Hell yeah. Like the Clippers should be done with them, but they're not done with them. No. So that gives you a little cause for pause on this, I think, because it's like, all right, why are you not done with them? I'm like, how have they done this?

You're sitting there two, two, and they've got home court back. So if you are the Oklahoma City Thunder, team that you hate, fan base that you hate, city that you hate. No, that's not. I don't hate them. I know you do. Which team do you want to face in the second? I would rather face it. I would rather face the nuggets.

I think you want to face the Nuggets. I think that says a lot about them and about which team is ultimately, objectively, a better team. I think the Clippers are a better team. Well, they also don't have a natural. SGA this is the same thing when I was talking about when we were talking about

the playoffs and I was like when we were talking about who would you want to face and one of the teams that you threw at me was like the play in was coming up and it was like

would you rather play the Warriors or the Clippers and I was like the Warriors a hundred times out of a hundred and that was a highly competitive game that carried it

but because they don't have a natural they don't have a natural Marant you know defender. Moody is what they threw on him.

Whereas the Clippers have 10. Like literally they just like they just reach into their bench and they can find another guy. So that's the thing I would say. And that's the other thing. The whole thing that makes the engine go with Oklahoma City is Gilson Alexander. There's not

the natural matchup to make his life more difficult. if you are Denver. They don't have that. They don't have that. Their defense is not,

you know. No, I mean, they don't have, they don't have that, they don't have that Christian Brown. Right.

I think that's the guy, right? I mean, you try to, I, you might have to get away with Gordon. I mean,

there's nothing to do. There's nothing to do. Gordon can't stay in five. I, nobody on their team can. And what I'm saying is the clippers at least have guys they could do it with. Oh,

they got four guys. They can throw at them. And so, That's the five. That's the issue. Yes, if I'm Oklahoma City, I want Denver to win. Yes, I think so too. And I think that tells you sort of like who objectively is the better deeper team.

The clippers are just deeper. Well, they also have a coaching staff that hasn't been fired in the last three times. That's helpful. All right. The other one that we have that mentioned is Orlando and Boston, which I'll give Orlando, like, I think this is good for them, you know? You know, you scoff at the playoff scars thing, but I do think that this is super instructive for Palo and Anthony Black and Franz and all those guys to go through it, to feel it, to see what a big playoff environment is like against the best team in their conference. And I also think you come out of it going, bro, all we got to do is build around Palo.

No, just, Palo has had itself a series. If we build out around him, like, we've got, like, the hardest thing in the league to get is the guy, right? They got the guy. We've got the guy. Now we've just got to build out around him, you know? They just need to shoot. I mean, I think it's been interesting. I tell you they win a game because in game one, in the first half, they've been in every game.

Right? Like, they've been at halftime in every game, it's been like a four-point game. pretty much every game across the board. Yep. It hasn't been like the Cavs Heat series, but it just blowouts or the, you know, the Grizzly Thunder series.

It's just, offensively deficient. Orlando's been there. It's just they just don't, I mean, they're missing Sugs, obviously. And the KCP that they acquired in the KCP that they have

are two completely different people. Like, I mean, part of that. It's just, part of that. It's just can't hit. Part of that is you're always going to look better.

You're always going to look better when you're, not counted on with your fourth or fifth option. And, you know, we see this every year, like guys that play alongside these generational superstars. And then we see them elsewhere. And it's like, oh, like for years, you would watch, you know, Jonathan Simmons or Bryn Forbes or like all these spurs.

And then they would go somewhere else. You'd be like, oh, well, that's not what I thought that was. I mean, you were just bringing up Andrew Wiggins. It's like, yeah, okay. Wiggins. Andrew Wiggins was like the second most important player on their final team. And it's like it doesn't look the same, right? It don't look the same next Tyler,

Tyler Hero as it does it against next to Steph Curry, right? And so I think there's partly, you've always got to be a little wary of the role players. Like, you know who my favorite role player on that Nuggets championship team was? Bruce Brown. the only thing I've seen him do since is wear a cowboy hat yes honestly

I swear to God the only thing I've seen him do is wear a cowboy hat I can't remember one other thing that's happened you know well such as life gotta be wearing that but anyway do you watch the Celtics and think your Knicks have a chance when you watch them well listen I saw Jason Tatea to game, you know, and

Jaylen Brown has always listed as questionable. Drew Holiday's been out. Drew Holiday's not playing. Yeah. I don't think full strength the Knicks can beat the Celtics in a seven game series, but if you take away one of those players, one of those variables,

and, you know, the three-point shooting variance, I think the Knicks have a shot. I would not pick them to win the series, but they've got a puncher's chance. Is it fair to say you're feeling better about it now, than you did a month ago. No.

Yes, you do. Well, a month ago. You gave them zero percent chance. A month ago. But like, I just think, I don't know what's going on with Brunson's ankle. Like, the dude couldn't stand. Bro, he just came out. They tried to help him up.

They tried to help him up. And he could not stand. You saw him in that fourth quarter. And they scored 11 boys in the fourth quarter. You score. Like, whatever they're giving him, they're going to need to keep giving it to him. Because I'm just, I just don't understand it medically. what it's going on.

How does it work? He seemed to be fine to me. How does it work? The same thing happened with Jah. Remember with Jah in the bay, in the playing game? Send them back there, get shot up with whatever. You know, you're jumping off two feet. Like what?

Back. I don't like, it can't be good for you. It can't be good for your body. I don't think they want to report. But to like to shut off the nerve endings that transmit pain to your brain. and run on that anyway cannot be good for your body. It can't be.

I agree. It can't be. So I'm a little concerned about that as a Knicks fan. I'm a little concerned about the fact that our best player couldn't put weight on his foot in the middle of the game. There's no way that Joe Missoula would let them shoot anybody up with anything. He didn't even want Porzingus to have a bandaid. No. They asked Missoula, they're like,

what do you think about the physicality in the series? He's like, no one got arrested. And he like asked him like a question. Like, now we get arrested? There hasn't been any arrests yet, right? He's such a psycho. He really is. I got to like it, though.

I like characters. I'm a little tired of the word physicality. Aren't you tired of the word physicality in the playoffs? He's just like, yeah. This is a playoff basketball. basketball, it's different. Yeah, but I like that it's been different. I like it, too.

It's getting super chippy too. Super chippy. We haven't even mentioned the, you know, Aaron Gordon and James Hardin getting into it. Could have gotten thrown out of the game. That guy that hit the game winner could have gotten Chuck. Could have gotten that. And as we mentioned, they don't have anybody.

If Aaron Gordon's out, like, I don't even know who takes his minutes, Strother. You know what I mean? Like, I don't even know who they put in. They don't have any other options. All right. So of all the three ones that we have right now. So I like the clippers, you like the clippers to come out of that.

Okay. Of the three ones that we have, Knicks are up three one, Lakers are up three one, Warriors are up three one. I'm sorry, wolves are up three one. Warriors are up three one. Do any, all right, how about this? I won't even say that, look, I got it. It's a 96% chance that the three one team wins. Sure.

Is there, if one of those series was going to go to seven games, if we got a game seven out of one of the series, which do you think is most likely for that to be the case? Because we got three ones. So that would just mean you win the next two games. Lakers. I think the Lakers and the Rockets have the best chance because they're going home for game five.

Okay. I think that makes a big difference. And the Rockets tonight. So you would suspect that the Knicks close it out, in fact. I suspect the Knicks, yeah. But I would say, I would say the Lakers. By the way, no disrespect, even though we disrespected them. The bucks are down 3-1 as well.

Oh, no. I mean, if you're honest, you're gone, right? I mean, I don't know. I don't know. Come on. You're gone. You have to be gone. There's no picks.

There's no way you're going. It's very hard to foresee a circumstance where you could have a good team. I think Yonis is gone. He's already laid breadcrumbs out for the past three off seasons that he wants to compete, that he wants another championship. He's hinted at this before. I think Yonis is gone. I think I kind of feel like Houston.

Really? He's not dead yet. Yeah. I kind of feel that way. But I, because look, I've seen several different iterations of that Warriors team. If they don't show up like full on for game five, it wouldn't be that shocking. You know, famously Memphis beat them by like 50 and did whoop that trick and whatever that turned around and got their ass kicked at game six, which was a close game until the fourth quarter. But I could kind of see that where it's like.

they're okay with winning it in six, and then you get caught. You can get caught, right? So I would say, and then they would win game seven on the road in Houston. But, I mean, I think that, right, I do think that they're one that, like, you know, could play with their food.

You know, I think the other ones, you know, there's going to kind of be more of a back against a wall mentality. We've got to get this done. We've got to take care of business, whatever. or like that Warriors team. There is a, you know, there are two major guys have done it so many times that it's not, you know,

it's not life or death, psychologically with them. They figured something out against Curry tonight. They limited Steph Curry. And I thought Pajemski, Pajemski played so good. Like, he won them the game. He didn't really perform down the stretch.

Right. But he won them the game. Oh, hell yeah. It's always the guys that are not the guys, right? We talk about this every year. This is going to be a fun, this is going to be a fun week for sure. Because I will say this,

this first round has been incredible. Like, of course we're going to get duds when you've got this mini series. You're going to get duds. But by and large, I have been wildly entertained. And you know what I love? I love all of the,

the jarring and pushing and the techs, and the offsetting text, and the clippers and the nuggets are getting into it. And the paces and the bucks are getting into it. getting into it. And tonight, Dylan Brooks and Jimmy Butler are getting into it. The Pistons and, you know, Carl Anthony Towns is acting like a tough guy. Like, I just think every series has a little bit of that edge and that animosity that I really enjoy.

You need the animosity because then you have the moments that then, you're right, then we can get some rivalries. Because we've missed that. We've missed these teams having rivalries with each other. So you need to have some stuff happen for them to create. those things. I'm just excited to stop talking about whether or not a hundred dudes could beat up a gorilla. You know what I mean? You've been talking about that a lot?

It's just all over my timeline. I don't even know how we got here as a society. I really don't. Somebody brought it up and everybody was like, you don't know how we got it. It's like it's a hot dog a sandwich. Like I don't know why this is taking over the discourse right now. Is the dress blue or whatever, right?

Yeah, exactly. It's one of those things it takes old. People would rather, you know what? it's a lot more lighthearted than most of the stuff people talk about. So I'll take it. I'll take the gorilla. I'll beat up the gorilla. Sure.

Whatever. I'll sacrifice myself. This is going to be a fun week for sure. We will reconvene on Thursday night after game six of that Clippers Nuggets. Clippers. Oh, yeah. That'll be great. That'll be the one that we're getting to do the show right after.

Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, is always. always is Jacoby. I'll talk to you later this week. Must be 21 and over in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 over and present in D.C. Got a gambling problem? Call 100 gambler or visit RG dash help.com. Call 1-888-88-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Gambling HelplineMA.org or call 800-3275050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.