The Mismatch - Will James Harden Be Happy With the Clippers? Plus, Three Early Winners and Losers of the Season

Episode Date: November 3, 2023

Verno and KOC discuss James Harden’s comments at his introductory press conference with the Clippers, and explain why what he said is worrisome (03:27). Will he show willingness to adapt while playing next to Kawhi Leonard and Paul George? Next, the guys each give three losers (19:15) and winners (43:18) of the NBA season so far. Got a question for Verno and KOC? Send them an email at [e-mail]! Or you can send the guys a tweet @ChrisVernonShow and @KevinOConnorNBA! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out http://theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from Offguard, and I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guide Pasha Gigi is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to The Mismatch.

I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Thursday night from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Colk, Kevin O'Colk, Kevin O'Colner, Kevin O'Colny, Kevin O'Brien, Kevin O'Blessarian, Kevin O'Fier, I got my spear shirt on right now. Oh, wow, you do have a spear shirt on. I got it on. I actually recorded with Bill Simmons earlier. for his pod on million dollar picks. And I asked him if he had ever been to the sphere because he was talking about how he is going to be traveling to the in-season tournament this year.

Oh, yeah. And he said he had not yet been to the sphere, but he was anxiously awaiting that trip when he was for sure going to check it out. I got to tell you, according to my X feed, Twitter feed, whatever you want to call it, this is a highly. anticipated episode of the mismatch, and I am befuddled as to why people would be interested in what we would have to say this week, given, you know, we've only had, well, like five games in the NBA thus far, but it turns out that many people are interested in hearing what I have to say about the team that I cover on a regular basis, which we will get to, because we are going to do three winners and three losers.

Now, before we get to that, we've got to mention. And we know the Memphis Grizzlies are one of those losers. Just to be clear. Just to make it explicitly clear here. Look, I'll tell you something. There is a late night last night. I cried myself to sleep. Woke up this morning.

Woke up this morning. You know, and I'm scrolling through. I get my coffee ready. I'm scrolling through everything getting caught up on stuff. I see Austin Reeves breaking Norm Powell's ankles because that was after I went to bed

and so I'm going back and watching stuff. And I go to Instagram and I'm scrolling down and the first thing that pops up is like either SportsCenter or ESPN or something. And it's like this mean and it's got Derek Rose and Desmond Bain and Marcus Smart, I think, on it. And it's got this huge O in five

And then it says, the Grizzlies are the only team in the NBA to not have won a game. And I was like, oh my God, I'm going back to bed. But they don't have Sandy Aldama. I'm going to bed. And you know what? Got a real problem with this player participation thing already in the NBA. Mismatch participation has always been 100%. I'm here.

I showed up to my press conference. And I won't be nearly, no matter what my. press conference, what comes of it. It will not be nearly as nuts so as James Hardens that he did today. Before we get to our winners and losers, we have to mention this because this is iconic. At one point, for those that have not seen this, James Hardin called himself very elite as an individual, which is something I am 100% stealing in the future. I find myself to be very elite as an individual. Also great in a team setting. These are all like, these are all unbelievable claims by James. Very elite as an individual, great in a team setting. He said, Philadelphia, they didn't want me.

Well, that's true. And then he went on to talk about how Philly was changing my role, knowing I can give more, knowing I can do more. But if you want me to be honest, it's like being on a leash. Like me knowing in order for us to get where we want to get, I was going to have to be playing my best offensively, whether it was facilitating or scoring the basketball, and Joel as well. I never had that opportunity. I think all that plays into where I am today.

When I'm in a leash, I'm not meaning shoot the ball every time. I meant like, I think the game and I'm a creator on the court. So if I've got a voice to say, hey, coach, I see this. What do you think about this? Then it's all okay. Someone that trusts me or believes in me and understands me that I'm not a system player. I am a system.

It's a banger of a line. Somebody that can have a dialogue with me, understand and move forward to figure out and make adjustments on the fly throughout the course of the game. It's really all I care about. It's not about me scoring the basketball. I've done that already. All right. So a lot of Doc River strays for the end game adjustments in that one. Yeah, it is a great line.

system player, I am a system. It's a really good line. Yeah, it's very reminiscent of it. And at one point, one point it was true. Yeah. Oh, it's very, it's very reminiscent of a, and I can't remember who originated it, but that, you know, there's no I in team. And the guy says, well, there is an M and a E. That's what it reminds me of. I'm not a, I'm not

a system player. I am a system. So, how do we think James Hardin's going to fit in in with the clippers? I think like Russell Westbrook said after Wednesday night's game is like, we'll figure it out. We don't know. You guys are going to chill out saying to the media and kind of stop asking some of these questions. We're going to figure it out over time. It's a big, I don't know.

You know, I was at that game on Wednesday night, which was an awesome game, by the way. It was a really fun game. Atmosphericia was amazing between the Lakers and the Clippers. And I was watching at one point, you know, you click Kauai Leonard and Paul George. They're going to be the fixtures out there. You know, then you've got Zubaz or PJ Tucker as your five. And then it's like, okay, is it Russell Westbrook? Is it James Hardin?

Is it Norm Powell? How do these touches get distributed? Who is going to sacrifice the most? Because ultimately that's going to happen or is it going to be matchup by matchup. Every single night's going to be much different come regular season time and then playoffs. It's more Kauai and Paul George. I don't know.

Like I said to you earlier in the week, I think the Clippers had to make this deal. Hardin raises their ceiling. But how it's going to fit? I found the comments that Hardin made today to be on the more worrisome side. Obviously, he's being honest, which you appreciate with the way he came out and said the confident things about himself and all that. But ultimately, though, I feel for this Clippers team to flourish at the highest level, the facts are is that Hardin said similar things entering Brooklyn. He said similar things entering Philadelphia. we know what happened with the Nets

with the Sixers, Doc Rivers you know, there's the reports about you know, he's on, Doc said he's unhappy after he wasn't named an All-Star changed the way he was playing. Like his first year with the Sixers, he was completely unwilling to shoot threes off the catch. Like he would just stop the offense

and stagnate things completely. And that did carry over to his first full season this past year with the Sixers as well. Like if you're going to be playing with Kawhi Leonard and Paul George and Russell Westbro, and like even Bones Highland or Russell Westbrook, there's a bunch of talent to players in that roster. Terrence, man, like guys who are going to attack closeouts

and kick it back out, you need to be willing to shoot off the catch. So how is it going to fit? I don't know until we actually see him on the floor and see what he's willing to do and what he reincorporates back into his game and how much he's actually willing to sacrifice touches because he's saying he was on a leash, even though last season,

he was second in the NBA in time of possession of the ball per game behind Luca Donchrich. He was third in the NBA and touches of the basketball per game behind Luca and Tyrese Halliburton. It's not like he was on a leash completely. He still ran the offense.

He still had a lot of creative control. Yeah, he's on a leash. I mean, how much more could he be looking for? If you're Tyrese and Tobias Harris, you have to be like, what the hell? No kidding.

You were on a leash. Yeah. It's like, are you serious, dude? Really? You were on a leash, right? You had the ball. It's like, what do you expect? You're full on Houston role still.

At this point of your career, you're not as quick anymore. And like I say this to you, because you know these eight years, this is our eighth year doing this. The past seven years, I've always been the Harding guy. I still am the Harding guy. I still have belief in Hardin. But the fact is, is that he has declined physically. He is not as bursty off the dribble anymore. He's not the same guy that he was in his prime years.

He can't be the system in the same way that he was. with the rockets. They also stopped giving him all those bullshit calls. The rules did change. You're right. That's part of it. So I think, like,

to get back to your question, how is it going to look? I don't know. I don't know. It's going to depend a lot on his willingness to do the things that he hasn't done in recent years. Cutting like Russell Westbrook

has started to do and shooting threes off the catch, which Hardin still hasn't done too much at all. And I will give credit to Russ has sacrificed. I mean, Russ's usage is low, so far. And it's not like he thinks he's still the man. There's a pecking order there.

Clearly, yes. And Kauai and George are the guys. And so now, yeah, where does Hardin fit amongst that? Because Westbrook has just kind of played that role. And he's gotten those guys good shots. They've gotten good shots. You know, you look at all the analytics, and they're getting better shots than they have in the past.

And Russ is a part of that. Also not getting crazy and just taking over possessions and flying up and down and doing his own thing. Like, he's kind of settled in what you would want, which is that's a guy that I never thought would have an easy time assimilating. Now, with the hardened thing, because I also think it's going to be very difficult

to have both those guys out on the court. And so now is the destiny, how hard would it be to bring Russ off the bench? Yeah. And or either of that. Like what level of sacrifice are you truly able to make? And who's finishing these games too? Like is Russ going to be happy watching from the sidelines if Tyloo feels Norm Powell's shooting ability off the catch is better than having Russell out there with the ball handling because now he has Hardin?

Westbrook, look, in this role, he has to be on the ball. Because you can't throw it out to him. I mean, I guess you could have him run in the baseline. But, I mean, again, so how many possessions are those guys, you know, again, Russ has kind of faded into the background of the other two. And you were there in person. Tell me what you thought about Kauai, obviously huge scoring output in that game. Did it feel like old Kauai, at least for a night?

Pretty close. You know, like it's definitely high-level Kauai Lentard and Paul George was great as well. I mean, both of those guys are playing elite basketball, like Tate Frasian. and I were talking earlier today for through the ringer. And like we were like going back and forth about how he said the Clippers are, you know, he felt like they were championship contenders prior to this trade with the way Kawhi Leonard and Paul George were playing.

I don't personally feel that way. Like I said you, I feel like the Clippers had to make this deal for Hardin. But that's a sentiment Tate has that a lot of people shared with the level that Kauai and PG were playing with their level of depth. Russ playing that, you know, third wheel role quite well. so far this season. So now, how are these guys going to coexist? It sounds like the way Hardin was talking, that they are all on the same page. Because he did say some of those things, but he also did say he did talk about the willingness to just to sacrifice, to take a lesser role that it's not about scoring every night. He did say those things as well. It's just they were contrasted by some of these absurd statements that make you feel like, I don't really know what his

vision actually is, what his vision of sacrifice actually is compared to what Kauai Leonard, Paul George, and Russell Westbrook actually expect. Because you could talk about sacrifice. He talked about doing those things entering Brooklyn and entering Philadelphia. Well, he's become more of a playmaker. He's definitely more willing to defer and pass the ball than score like he did in the Houston days. But damn, dude, like he still doesn't do the shooting stuff off the catch. And that's what he's going to bring back. We lauded the fact that like he, you You've got to give him some credit for helping M.B. We gave him credit.

And now this press conference wipes all that away because he, like, resented playing that way. Yeah, he's like, I was on a leash. What do you mean you were? What does that mean? Like, he's saying, like, it's creativity going back and forth with a coach. Sure. But you're telling me that Ty Lou is a better coach than Doc, but you're saying that Ty Lou is necessarily going to give you more of a leash to just dictate.

everything on the court on. Or that those other players are going to want you. You're not their system. I know. I don't see it. I just don't see it like that. And I worry, I like Hardin and I still like his game, but I worry that he's a bit delusioned about what his role is for this Clippers team.

That the role needs to be becoming a hybrid version of your old self with Oklahoma City where you were the third wheel behind Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant. and this newer version of yourself that we saw in Brooklyn and saw in Philadelphia where you're making your teammates better as a passer. The key thing is I've said this multiple times to you already on this podcast, the spot-up shooting. His first seven seasons of his career, he attempted 2.8 spot-up three-pointers per game at 39.9% made three.

So he was one of the better catch-and-shoot three-point shooters in the entire league. Over the last seven years, that dropped down to 1.3. attempts off the catch from three per game. Still 39.2% on those attempts. All of those numbers are according to Synergy Sports. He attempted under one per game a couple years ago, just a hair over one per game two seasons ago. It's become a shot for him that he rarely ever takes, even though, especially within that Sixers offense, he had countless chances to get those open looks. We're seeing Maxie get a ton of shots per game right now for Philadelphia. Tobias Harris flourishing for the Sixers because they're getting these open kickout opportunities

or shots off of screens. Harden would oftentimes receive the ball in those situations and stop the offense, wait for Embed to come back as a screener rather than launching off the catch. Will he continue doing that with the clippers and wait for Zubots to come over or wait for Tucker to come over or will he isolate? Or is he actually going to take one of the most efficient shots for him that he has in the half court? That's going to be what helps, I think, create flow within all of these star level talents that they have. He hasn't done it for years, so I wonder if he's willing to bring it back now, which he should. Yeah, at some point as the season goes on, you're going to decide which one. Because I think if you have both him and Westbrook in

there, it's going to turn into, okay, here's the possession you get to run. Okay, here's the possession you get to run, because they're both guys that have routinely had the ball in their hands coming down the court and deciding possessions. And then, but like I said, Westbrook is already kind of assimilated that now you're throwing in this, this wrench into this with a guy that obviously wants to be a very high usage player still in the league when what is best for him at this point is falling more toward, is he going to be happy being the third best player on that team? Because that's what he is.

He's the third best player on that team. And will he be happy with that? The other interesting stuff plot is you've got Kauai, Paul George, and him all playing for their last big contract, all of them. So is it, are you going to be mad that you're not getting the numbers that, you know, come along with being the man? Because you've got a contract on the line? Or are, do you understand that, you know, if I can show I could be a part of winning at the highest level that that that actually. is what's going to make people want me the most. Because nobody's going to make you their centerpiece anymore.

Nobody. I mean, that was my argument for him about returning to Philadelphia. I felt like this is a situation for you to win and show you're willing to sacrifice and do the other stuff aside from dominating the ball. And that was like one of the other comments he had. He's like, you know, I'm a ball dominant player. And, you know, me dominating the ball leads to highly efficient results.

It's like, yeah. to an extent, but also now you're with Kauai Leonard and Paul George. Yeah, so I don't think the expectation can be ball dominance. It's going to be sharing and occasionally being the ball dominant player. Jump into the NBA action with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook. Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets with any winning $5 money line bet. Plus all customers get three months of NBA League Pass, courtesy of Fandul, when they place a $5 bet on the NBA.

That way you can watch all the action as you bet on everything from point spreads to player props. Best of all, you get paid your winnings instantly. So don't miss your chance to get $150 in bonus bets plus three months of NBA league pass. Just visit fandul.com slash mismatch and tip off the NBA season right. Fan duel, official partner of the NBA.

Must be 21 plus and present in select states $5 pregame money line wager required. First online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-drawable bonus bets that expire seven days after a seat. Limit one pass per customer. Restrictions apply. See full terms at fanbule.com slash sportsbook.

NBA League Pass local blackout restrictions apply. All right. We're going to go through some winners and losers from the first week of the NBA season. Go ahead. I will, uh, I'm going to allow a loser? Yeah, I'm going to allow it to have it. Number one, the Memphis. Grizzly.

Oh, and five, after getting pummeled by the Utah Jazz in their fifth game, they now, now luckily a mismatch listener reminded me that I said they'll win at least two out of three. I still have two chances with two Portland games, but they have stunk so far. And not only have they stunk, they have also run into buzz saws, which is about, the worst possible scenario. They have had 89 threes hit against them so far, Kevin. That is the most in the history of the NBA through five games. They have had, you know, and I text you last night, I said, all right, I give up.

This Utah team was averaging 12 threes. They've got 14 in the first half. Some of it is, of course, lack of defense. then some of it is you've run into teams that are just shooting out of their mind. There is luck always involved. There's a lot of variance that is involved when teams are shooting 40 and 53s. Some nights they hit 20 and look great, and some nights they hit 12 and look okay. The problem is they can't shoot.

They haven't been able to stop anybody. And they've got numbers post on them. They've played five games in the first week of the season. and most of the losses, I think they've only been favored in one of the games, which was the Washington game. The other ones, I believe they were an underdog and all of those. But again, can't get too far behind the eight ball on this, but they are the only team in the NBA that has not won a game yet. There's only, I believe, what, we've got two undefeated left. Boston hadn't lost the game and Dallas hadn't lost a game.

I think everybody else has taken a loss thus far. But you're 0 and 5 to start off the year, which is never a good look. And I thought they would be better in that fifth game, and they were not. They signed Bismack Biombo. Same were. Look, look, look, it's not about him as much as it is. They'll put a big body next to Jaron Jackson so that the biggest guy on the court has to worry about somebody outside of him. because they've been down guys.

They were already short-handed. They're playing a bunch of guys that should not be playing, honestly. None of the wings have been good at all. Smart's been good. Bain's been good. Jackson's been good for the most part. And that's about it. That's it.

No, the rest of them suck. Now, you mentioned Mark are smart. You said he's been good. Obviously, John Moran's, you know, attacking of the rim, the rim penetration that he gets, you know, getting into the. teeth of defense is severely missed right now. How much do you feel Tyos Jones has missed factoring in the performance of Market Smart right now?

Is Tyos Jones the underrated missing piece right now? Oh, I think that having Tyos Jones, you would certainly be in a better spot right now. But that's the, again, you're thinking about your team and when you have John Morant and then you have Marcus smart alongside John Morant, right? The move is not based on the first 25 games of the season. That's based on... I guess what I'm saying is... All 82.

What I'm saying is, do you feel like Marcus Smart has replaced some of that steady playmaking ability that Tyos Jones has provided behind John? Of course not. Of course not. But that's not the thing that he was going to be asked to do. I mean, Tyos also had a relationship with a lot of the guys on the team and had been playing with them for three years. you would want Tyos Jones for the first 25 games of this season. I think you would want Marcus Smart for the 82 games of this season. And that will bear itself out because that's the kind of guy that has won a ton of playoff games

and gives you an advantage when he's out in playoff games. As much as sometimes Boston fans talk down on him, this is a guy that's won a ton of playoff games. I will say, look, you can look back at last year, and these are not excuses. I'm just telling the reality. Last year, Philly started 1 and 4, Brooklyn started 1 and 4. Lakers started 0 and 5 last year. Sacramento started 0 and 4 last year.

I mean, we got to two weeks into November. Remember we talked about this last year? And, of course, I forget it already by my panic. But we got to two weeks into November last year, and the number one seed in the Western Conference was Utah. You know who the number two seed was? New Orleans. Portland. Portland was.

New Orleans is up there, too, right? Yeah. You know who 12 and 13 and 14 were? Sacramento, Golden State, and the Lakers. And then we get to December, midway through December, the Pelicans are the number one seed in the Western Conference. I mean, it is a lot of games. It's an 82 game season, but they have sucked. And that's what's going to make the in-season tournament so exciting, right?

Like who is going to be that hot early-season performer that could win some of these games on Tuesdays and Fridays and get themselves to Las Vegas and maybe win the whole thing? Because it's like different segments of the season where you have dramatically different results and dramatically different high-performing teams. I'll tell you this, the Grizzlies ain't winning that. he doesn't come back until two weeks into December or something like that. I don't think you'll be making the trip to Vegas. I don't think so at all.

No. If I do it, if I do, I'll be walking. Yeah. Or it'll be like a Hunter S. Thompson trip. I know. They've stuck. They don't, if they don't win, if they don't win at least,

they got to win both these games in Portland. me my God. Oh, I mean, Portland's riding a two-game winning streak. I know, I know. Are you sure about that? They might make it four in a row. They get an easy schedule coming up with two against the gris. Look, I've been humbled.

I'm down bad. Stop tweeting my ass. I know they stink. But they're not going to stink forever. It's going to get better. It can't get worse. What are they going to do? Lose?

So hopefully it gets better before it gets worse. Bismack will save me. I know it. I know it. I'm putting all my hope of Bisbac Bial. You know, it's funny. A Grizzlies fan sent me a meme this morning that I totally forgotten about. This is from so many years ago.

It was actually a Bismac Bionbo meme that used to be big around Grizzlies fans, where it was like half of the meme is Bismat Bionbo. And he said, this is my house. And he held up his arms. And it was in Charlotte. And Rudy Gay, who was playing for the Grizzlies, the time. His response was, you've got seven wins. This is everybody's house. And now full circle, Bismat-Biombo is about to save my life. Who knew? Who knew? All right. That's my first loser.

Who's your first loser? Adrian Griffin, head coach of the Milwaukee Bucks. I mean, it's been a really rough go for that Bucs defense. They currently have. have the worst defensive rating in NBA history. Granted, that'll change the system they installed. We know for years we've been talking about how the Bucks play that drop type of coverage with Brooke Lopez, drop into the paint, protecting the rim. They're playing a far more aggressive scheme now that brings Brooke and Janus and these guys

to the perimeter. And they're just hemorrhaging points at the basket through cuts, you know, kickout passes leading the guys attacking closeouts. their defense is just abysmal right now, and that's largely in part to the new system now. You could say that they're early season experimenting. It's worth giving this a go, so you have it in your back pocket,

just like the year of the Bucks won the title. You know, Bud was practicing switching throughout the course of the season, increasing that over the duration of the year. So he had it as a tool we'll use in the postseason. I'm not exactly sure that that's what's happening here. I mean, Griffin, the way they talked about it during training camp and preseason was that this is the new scheme and that's the way they want to play. They want to create more chaos on defense. Well, really, it's just not working.

And I think offensively, the flip side of that is you got Dame at like 14 shots per game right now. Him and Yannas are not running a high frequencies of pick and rolls one bit. Yannis has not shown willingness to be an effective screener like he was years ago for Chris Middleton. He's not setting hard screens. He's not rolling hard. Will those two develop chemistry and the way and at the volume that we anticipated? That has not happened yet. Is that on Griffin?

Is that on Janus? It could be on Janus too because he's the one who wanted Griffin after all. Well, look, that other guy that you mentioned, is he going to be able to assimilate to this? And that's Middleton. Middleton's averaging seven points. Yeah, well, he's still on a minute's restriction right now, too. I got you. But he also doesn't do anything in those 10.

minutes. He's still, he's his playmaking against the heat, uh, what was two, three games ago. He looked good. It's just he hasn't shown anything as a score, which is my level of concern here because he's also not like a, like, you know, he's got to be a three point shooter. Yeah, he's not like he's not playing a lot of minutes. Like, the playmaking looks good, but he's not playing many minutes. He's playing like 16 minutes per game. He's not scoring efficiently in those minutes that he's on the floor. Uh, like there's naturally concerned there. So Middleton is concerned. Dane is not being utilized in the way that he should be. Yannis is still jacking these jump shots and not screening. And the defense looks

absolutely horrible right now. And you have a rookie head coach that hasn't proven anything. And thus far, all he's had is his lead assistant walk out on him. And now he has this scheme that has fallen apart. So I have concerns about the bucks right now in a pretty big way. Well, the other thing, Middleton only played 33 games last year. Yeah, he was hurt. And so now you're turning around. It's like you're trying to come back from that. And you're trying to figure out how to be the third banana on this team, you know.

But yeah, you're right about the defense thing. I mean, like, that's exactly what they, the teams that could pull Brooke Lopez away from the basket are the ones. Like, that was the goal was to try to get him away from the basket. So that he couldn't just defend the rim. 100% If you're doing that willingly, like that is, the Raptors putting up

130 was wild. Yeah, that's wild. All right. My next loser, so you talk about the in-season tournament, whatever,

and they did a big rollout, big promotion, they've got a big promotion, got Dramon Green doing commercials, all this crap. The court thing? Totally cool. I'm with it.

Like the court. Jerseys? horrendous. Yeah, the jerseys are gross. Horrendous. It makes me less interested because they're that bad. They're so bad. The idea that I'm going to be flipping around and like now these are like supposed to be special games,

there needs to be some oversight in this because these are going to be special games and yet we are going to turn them on. And it is by far the worst. example of NBA wardrobe. Not even close. Like we're trying to make this a big deal, trying to get people interested, and they're going to flip this on and they're going to be like, the casual fan is going to flip this on and be like, what the hell? What are these jerseys? What are they wearing? I told Bill, if they would have called me into the meeting, you know what I would have done? They should have all worn their very first jersey. That's what they should have done.

Celebrate like the history of the league and whatever your first jersey of your franchise was, that's what you guys are wearing. We're redoing them and we're going to all wear the originals as to not only pay homage, but also it's cool. Everybody loves the throwbacks, like the authentic throwbacks that were like really like

the teams of yesteryear. And instead, like, they've run out of ideas. These jerseys are abhorrent to look at. And the idea that they're promoting this is like, hey, this is special. This is really special. And people are going to turn in and tune in and see that crap. It's a loser. It's a week one loser in the NBA.

Do better. I look forward to seeing how the jerseys look against the colorful courts because a lot of the colors were muted with grays and whatnot for the jerseys. but I mean, I'm not super optimistic about the look of the games. I just hope the quality of the games helps make up for it, because ultimately that's what matters the most. This is worse than the sleeve jerseys. It's worse than that. Yeah.

Which is hard. Yeah, some of the sleeve jerseys looked okay. But, yeah, the sleeves felt forced. But yeah, I think that's a good loser. But I'm still looking forward to the in-season tournament. I know you are. I'm actually excited about. You're Kevin O in season.

No one loves it more than you. I'm excited about it, man. I think it's going to be fun. It's going to spice it up. I'm looking forward to those Tuesdays and Friday nights with in-season games. It's going to be fun. What's your next loser? My next loser, let's go with lamello ball.

It's been a rough start to the season for him. He's shooting 30% from the field, 27% from three. And just overall, like for a guy who, you know, for years, we've lotted him for his creative playmaking ability. He just feels very out of control. He's forcing it out there. He's making silly, sloppy turnovers. It doesn't feel like he's setting up his teammates in the same way that he has in past years. And last year was like that for him as well. It felt like a step back from his prior season. And I wouldn't say like it's panic time at all. But this is the second season in a row now that he's underwhelmed when you consider what trajectory it felt like

he was actually on when he was an all-star his second season. So, you know, it's early, but four games in for the Hornets, it's just something to monitor right now, the performance of lamello ball, because it hasn't been good for now, you know, 40 straight games going back to last season. Well, and this was one of those where it was like he was supposed to be, or that team was like, hey, they were super injured. And so, and obviously, they're like, lost bridges and it was just a catastrophe last year. But there's a lot of the same parts that won the amount of games they did two years ago. And so they'll be able to get back to going once they got these guys back.

But also not taking it into consideration is that they, it's Steve Clifford now, your favorite. Your favorite. It's not, it's not Barago anymore. Right? He was a different coach than was. And was that. All right. And then this one, look, I originally was going to have, when we started, when I started writing these down yesterday, I was originally going to have Cleveland because they were in a bad way.

But they beat the Knicks, so I'm going to let them off the hook. But, you know, they won that first night because Brooklyn vomited all over themselves in that game. And then they lost three in a row after that. So, I mean, they should have been 0 and 4 until they weren't particularly close games until they got that win against, um, against the Knicks last night, but I will say, if you just take a look at, like, kind of what they've got coming up,

not that easy, at Indiana, Golden State, and then they go at OKC, at Golden State, at Sack. I mean, this could get kind of bleak for Cleveland

if they don't get their shit together. Now, they may have, as of last night, uh, with their win, um, against the Knicks.

Maybe, maybe they got it on track. But, the third loser. It has to be Indiana and not because of their two and two record or their before.

It's the getting beat by 50 is just ludicrous. Well, they didn't have Halliburton. 50. I know. It's bad. Teams like let up. They let up. Like even if you're dead, look, look,

what was a final in the Grizzly game last night? because he could have lost by 50, but like, team stopped playing. It's hard. Even, I don't care who you don't have, to lose by 50 points. And just to see that coming across the, every time it came across the scroll,

I was like, what the hell? Is that right? Yeah, 155 for Boston. 155 points. I don't care who. All right, fine. So is Tyrese Halliburton, early MVP, obviously, early,

season MVP, Tyresease Alliburton, because giving up 155 points in 48 minutes is hard. And like Miles Turner would be one of the early season losers too. He's, he's 18 points per game last year, 37% from three, good rim protection, down to 14.8 points per game this year, 22.2% from three. And not quite the same level of room protection after he got his new deal, the soft season. So he's definitely one of the losers to tie it to Indiana. Kevin, there's a 24-second shot clock, right? Yeah. Okay.

If you score 155 points of 48 minutes, you have scored 3.2 points per minute. There should not be time to score 155 points. There shouldn't be time to do that. Bleak, man. I don't know. There's no way somebody scores 156 in regular. this year.

There's no way. It's possible. No way. Boston might do it. Do you know how hard that is to do? I know. It's very difficult. I'm in regulation?

Is that the highest scoring? I mean, that's got to be one of the highest scoring ever in a regulation gang. I didn't see, I figured if it was that that would have been, that that would have been promoted like everywhere. You would have seen like those memes of the. highest scoring in regulation. Let me see here. I'm going to try to find this and see what the number is. 173.

That's the highest ever? I believe so November 10th, the 1990, the Phoenix Suns over the Denver Nuggets in regulation, 173. And that ties with the Boston Celtics over the Minneapolis Lakers in 1959 when they had 173. Unbelievable. And that's in regulation. No overtimes. Yep. I believe that's accurate here.

And it's up to date as well because it has the Kings Clippers game from last year, the 176, 175 double overtime game. So it's listing the overtime games and the regulation games. So 173. I mean, you never know. You never know. We could see something in the 160s, 168. Nuggets had 168 over the Supersonics in 2008. Not a lot recently.

Everything else is pretty much from the 70s, 80s, and the 60s. The suns had, I mean, yeah, it's not a lot, actually. Because you sit all your guys, theoretically. I know. Yeah. The Rockets had 158 multiple times in the regulation games. Wow. It's an unbelievable number.

Who's your third loser? Let's go with the Chicago Bulls just with, I think we talked about it last week with the team meeting after one game. There was a reporting today about how some of the players believe that one of them could be traded if the team isn't doing well. It just feels like a lot for the team already to be dealing with this season. And on top of that, Patrick Williams has not made the type of progress that you would hope for for a guy that you invested the number four pick in so far this season. for the Bulls, he's averaging four points per game on two of 16 from three, which is, if you want to do the math, 12.5 percent. He's six of 14 from two point range as well.

He's just been absolutely horrific. And that's a guy you invested the number four pick in in the 2020 draft. It's just a rough start of the year for the Bulls with some of their younger investments and also their older guys and everything that's going on there. well and every time every every every every every time i see them now especially because you know i love that orlando team i think about that and and they re signed them because i mean i but it's like a if i found that gm it's a constant reminder right um the the the vucevich trade oh yeah the wendell carter franz i mean it's just so yeah so bad so bad i mean it's still

by the day. I saw, I saw our old friend, brother Franz Wagner, Mo Wagner, and the Magic locker room the other day. I said hi to him. I was old listener of our show for many years ago. I asked him if he consumes NBA content anymore. He's like, no, I just, I play, I practice, and focus on family. But yeah, it was good to see Mo because, yeah, remember back in the day? That's right. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Right when he was out of Michigan, right? Right when he was out of Michigan. or no yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah one of our original

listeners really Mo Wagner he's awesome it's so cool I wonder what that's like to be playing with your brother in the NBA that must be such

the coolest most fulfilling thing like for the national team getting gold and then you're playing in the NBA at the same team must be so special Lopez's are doing it too

yeah it's awesome your Janus is too the AnteCompos Panas isn't so good though he's he he he

he see the the screenshot of him I've seen all I've seen all of the I've seen all the video like there was a mixed tape do you see the mix tape it was going around no I didn't see the mix tape

and it was like he is the worst tell me he's not the worst player of the NBA and I mean it was a unbelievable mix tape let's get to winners. My number one winner, first week of the season, the Golden State Warriors. Oh,

that's a good one. So the Golden State Warriors lost on opening night by four to Phoenix. Since then, they played sack twice. They got two wins against Sacramento already. You got a win at Houston. They got a win at New Orleans where they were super impressive in that. But more importantly, they've got Clay who hit a game winner in the last game, and he's shooting 46% from the field, 38% from 3. Chris Paul has been fantastic thus far, like exactly what you want, not like high minutes,

nine points, eight assists, four rebounds, contributing to winning. And then they look way deeper because they've got Cominga playing for them now. They've got Moody playing for them now. And Sarich has been great.

You know, he's like coming off the bag, exactly what you want. Like coming off, getting you seven and seven in short minutes. And that's not even to mention, you know, they still got Peyton the third. They still got Looney.

You know, they got Draymond back in the fold faster than maybe was once anticipated. And, you know, you see those Draymond comments about how they had horse shit chemistry last year. I wonder why. Give us the why, Draymond. Please. Yeah. But why is that?

I wonder. I wonder. The Moody of Cominga, both have good thus far, and like he's playing them, and they're in the rotation. Like, they're, they got depth. And Curry looks like he's on a mission. Yeah. Curry looks like a freakish.

He's an MVP candidate right now. Yeah. Luke is probably the favorite at this point, but Curry's right up there alongside Joker and Luca. Yeah. So they got busted out last year. And now they like come back and it looks like this, so far. it is to look like a team that is not just going to take it easy during the regular season,

but instead that they're actually going to really care about this and not just try to turn it up in the third quarter and the fourth quarter to win games. Like they've come out the gates kind of focused and got a lot of good players on that team now. I mean, if they're going to get Chris to be awesome and they're going to get Saurich to be good off their bench and Moody and Cominga both have taken a leap, you know, you've got, you got a lot of guys. And Clay looks better. He looked better than he did, you know. He's another year removed from some pretty devastating injuries, losing two years of a career.

But, you know, he's shooting a good percentage. And I don't know, they've looked really good so far, really good. I'll stick in the Western Conference for my first winner. It's the Dallas Mavericks, 4-0 to start the season. Luca looking like MVP at the moment, 33.8 points per game, 10.5 rebounds, 9.8 assists. Playing solid individual defense as well. Looks like he's in shape. Gotta give him credit there.

But the reason why the Mavs are a winner so far this year is because of the success of the players they added this offseason. We saw Grant Williams the other night against the Bulls hit seven three-pointers with 25 points. He's been very good on both ends for them. Derek lively, their rookie center. the chemistry that he already has with Luca as a lob threat, but also as a passer, six assists the other night, some of the room protection that you hope he can continue to provide over the course of the year, the offensive rebounding.

Up and down the roster, the Mavericks, before last season, I believe you said on the show, you look at their depth and you're like, ugh. This season on paper, it was like, I don't know. I will see how these new guys, these new faces, like Dante XM types pan out. Well, so far so good. These guys look really solid.

It looks like a deeper Mavericks roster more than Luca has ever had before. And that's despite Kyrie Irving not playing and struggling when he has. Luca was amazing. And the game I saw him, Derek Jones Jr. hit four threes. And I'm like, okay. Like, what is he going on? Now, it's crazy because I was effusive in my praise on lively after seeing him that first night, the Wembe night.

But he is terrible in the game. game. I mean, he was in horrible foul trouble, but didn't do anything. I mean, he is a rookie. So he's got to have those. No, it would have been way better for him to have stayed in the game. Honestly, for the Grizzlies, they would have been one last guy that was bombing threes. The night I saw him, they hit like 24 threes, I think. They were just shooting fireballs. And Luca, I've seen two games so far this season with, you know, I saw, I saw Denver and I've seen Dallas, both in person. You know, Guys like M.B., guys like Janice, whatever, like they got to, somebody's got to throw them the ball.

But these guys like Yokic and Luca, they just control a basketball game. Like, you are playing however they want to play. You are not speeding them up. You're not. You're not speeding them up. And they are so good. So good. Both of them.

Just they're so obviously the best player on the floor at every moment. of the game. And obviously, yeah, Lucas, he's got better guys to throw it out to. He gets you good shots, boy. He is, he's great. I actually had, I actually had, I actually had Dallas on my list too,

but I'll go with that other team, Denver, simply because it's a first week winner because a lot of times we've seen, like, lackadaisical or hangover from whatever, but like they've come out the gates and look like a team that's like going to be there at the end to be trifled with. Like they brought their guys back. And the other thing is I was impressed with the bench guys that they brought off.

You know, I think as time goes on, you will probably get some more guys even involved. Like I know, we were big on some of the guys that they even drafted, Strother. And these are guys that aren't even getting to play yet, really. But between Christian Brown, Peyton Watson, and the like, Reggie Jackson, you know, obviously they got him back on the contract.

Like, they look loaded for Bear and there has not been a hangover thus far for them. They didn't come out slow. They didn't come out like they just had the championship off season. Like, it's them.

And then there's like, whoever you're impressed with in that week. So like one night we walk away like, man, the clippers look really tough. Or one night we go, wow, Golden State looks really tough.

But it just feels like that's going to be, that's going to be the one that we can really count on to be extremely good going forward. That Denver team is, you know, and obviously. They're unbelievable. Yoke is the best player in the world right now. My second winner, I'm just going to read a Michael Peanut tweet from earlier today to get into this.

He tweeted out, right now the top 10 individual leaders and plus minus are Boston's starting lineup, four clippers who have started all of their games, and Christian Wood. Christian Wood is one of my winners. You will never give this guy up. Well, why would I give Christian Wood up when the way he's performed? Because it ends badly every time. Okay. All right. Okay.

All right. Well, maybe you didn't watch the game last night where he's got a big stop on Kauai Leonard, man-to-man defense and overtime, where he made big plays. He hit threes. He crashed the boards. He had a put-back offensive rebound to put the Lakers up five late in overtime. Christian Wood is hustling hard on defense, playing on the perimeter, providing some room protection next to AD, spacing the floor on offense. He's doing all the little things, every little thing out. there and he's doing it at a high level.

He's part of one of the best three-man units in basketball alongside Anthony Davis and LeBron James. That looks like their best combination in the front court, Christian Wood, Anthony Davis, LeBron James. So Christian Wood, through the early part of the season, you might not believe he can sustain it, but I'm saying thus far, he's one of the big winners. Okay. Well, look, this is like, we should have just made it and I should have given it some price for

like annual. years, eight seasons, we've been doing this, and literally every November, you have gone on with a Christian wood erection. That's not true because, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, wait a minute, wait a minute, no, no, it hasn't been eight years. And another three doesn't want him. It hasn't been eight years. Oh, because he was in China eight years ago?

Yes, but it was the, it was in the 2019-20 season with the pistons where my belief in him began, okay? Yeah. So it started that year, and then he went to the Rockets, that off. that offseason is when I wrote that story about him as the most underrated free agent out there based on what he did to end the season with the Pistons in 1920. That's when it began. So really, it's only been three years of Christian Wood hype and then him falling short of expectations.

But the rocket situation fell apart. He signed there expecting to play with James Hardin. He pushed his way out of there immediately. That situation fell into the crap that we saw in recent years. He goes to the Mavericks. He still performed pretty well in moments. Him and Jason K. didn't get along. There was still some ups and downs.

And maybe that'll happen with the Lakers. But I have level of belief in him still that this is a winning atmosphere. LeBron James effect playing next to Anthony Davis. It is by far the best situation of his career with by far the highest expectations and by far the most stability he's ever had. So he is one of the winners of opening week

for a guy who didn't sign until late in the offseat. and now looks like a key figure in the Lakers rotation. Yes, he's a winner. And so are the Lakers with the way he's performing. Look, you can't call Christian Wood a winner until he's won something. I never said, I can call him. You did call him a winner of the season so far. It's the only, it's the only circumstance of which you can use him and winner in the same sentence.

All right. Okay, we'll see. The guy is like a career loser. I can't wait to make you and Chris. Chris Vannex, just eat your words. I can't wait. Yes, you can't. If there's what you've learned in eight years,

you come around to my line of thinking. It takes you a long time, but eventually you're out on Carl Towns. Eventually, you're out on James Harding. I'm not out on Hardin. I just have my concerns. You'll be out on Christian Wood. I mean, maybe maybe this year, maybe this year I will be out on Christian Wood,

because this is really the final chance. It is. If he fails hair, then it's never going to work anywhere, okay? But the fact is, the way he's playing so far, even the skeptical Lakers fans just seeing them in my mentions and seeing their tweets come across the timeline, they're all like, whoa, if we get this version of Christian Wood, it's a game changer.

He looks great. All right. And I'm going to go with another one, and this is just along those lines. Okay. generally a career loser at one point had a chance to assimilate himself but we talked about this going into the season. Kelly Ubre has been unbelievable.

Oh yeah, that's a great winner. Like, I mean, that's a winner. Look, again tonight, while right before we were recording this, they won by 15 against the Raptors. Kelly Ubrey plays 29 minutes in the game, 23 points, 8 for 13 from the field, 5 for 6 from So he's got 23, five rebounds in the game, gets him a steal, and has, like, fit in so far this year. He's average 19 points, four rebounds, shooting 50% from the field. And, like, he's gotten a start on a good team.

And it's like, we wondered, like, can this guy be a part of winning? And, like, I got to give him credit. This is very so far. Now, again, he still never passes the ball, but it doesn't have. have to. It's very Wiggins-esque, not to the level of Wiggins, which is obviously a guy that has helped the team win a title.

So you've got a lot to live up to. But in terms of can this guy play in a winning concept, like on a winning team and be a part of winning? Like, he's a first week winner because we had real thoughts that, like maybe it's just awesome stats, crap team guy. And that's just what he is.

is. Yeah, he scores 20 points a game for a team that loses literally every night, but he's scored 20 points a game for a team that wins. So got to give him some credit on that, for sure. The other one, I'm going to make this a 3B. The other one is Detroit. Yeah, Detroit was on my list, even though they lose tonight to the Pelicans, but they're on my long list. They lost to the Pelicans. Well, Pelicans' chemistry came through in the end. But here's the deal. This is exactly what we got amped up about. Like the bright future pistons,

it never came to fruition because Cade got wrecked last year before it ever got going. But like, this is what we wanted to see. It's like, all right, they ain't going to win a ton of games. But they're going to be a fun watch. And they got fun players to keep up with the James Wiseman saga, notwithstanding. My God. Yeah, Marvin Bagley's better.

It says everything you get to know. Is it over? Yeah, I think it's over. Like, what the hell situation can you be in? Yeah, it's over. I mean, he's DMPs, bro. Mm-hmm. Huh.

That's crazy. Pulling up the Pistons box score. That's crazy. Not even getting in the game. Yeah. Yeah, he's got a D&P again tonight, baggily 13 minutes off the bench. Oh, my God.

Man, I know. It's crazy. What situation? can you be in? If you can't play for them, like get some minutes. Duren's been amazing, though. Yeah,

Duren's been absolutely unbelievable. I likely have like a little, a couple paragraphs on him and my column on Monday on the ringer. Derns like, yeah, yeah, he just reminds me so much of watching Ben Wallace

back in the early 2000s. I mean, I know it's the Pistons jersey starting center for the Pistons. Like, that's why there's the reminder, but I just used to love watching Ben Wallace. Like when I thought about

Detroit, basketball. In my mind, I was thinking about Ben Wallace blocking shots, the vicious dunks around the basket that he have. The Detroit basketball chant always made me think about Ben Wallace. And I just feel like with him, Jalen now in the NBA, with his rebounding and shop locking.

And I mean, like, he's got skill, too. Like, he's more skilled offensively than Ben Wallace ever was. He had a Euro step tonight. He could pass the ball. He can attack off the dribble a little bit in a straight line. Like, he's got some skill in addition to just the lob threat, you know, verticality that he has.

But, like, that dude is awesome. He's the funnest player on the pistons, despite all the guards they have. And, like, Osir Thompson, the rebounding and Cade, the creation and all that. Duran is, um, he's a blast to watch. I love that dude. I covered him at Memphis. And he's so much better now. Like, he's improved every year.

But the one thing you knew, you know, there's two bigs in a row. that they played for Penny there. Achua and then him, they both just go so hard. Yeah. Like they play. You know, there's so many loafing bigs. Those guys play with like real tenacity.

You know, they'll fight. They'll fight with you. And both of them just full ass grown men. Even as freshmen in college, you saw them and you're like, God. You think about what you look like as a freshman.

to college. Like, how is this even possible? I know. It's crazy. These guys come in, they look like Adonis. It's crazy.

He's still only 19, too. He's so young. I know. He's still younger than a ton of rookies in the NBA right now, and he's performing at the level that he has like 15 and 15 every night with two, three blocks per game. Yeah, but the sports guys just so many,

they got to figure out like, you know, which two or three of them they want to build out around them. I mean, I think you're looking at it. You're going, all right, we got Cade,

we got Duren. Now we're going to build out around this thing. And then we'll figure out, you know, we'll figure out what we do, you know, how Thompson fits, how Ivy fits. And so some of the, they've obviously just made a collection of talent thus far that is not conducive to winning immediately. But they're still going to be fun to watch because it's got a bunch of young fun players. You know who I want to talk about next week with you? We didn't talk about them this week for winners and losers, which I think is fair. But the Miami Heat, we get to talk about them at some point.

soon. I think we should talk about them. They've only won one game. They're losers and they won their one game against Detroit by one point. But like they they face the Wizards on Friday night and then they face the Lakers on Monday night. I think we should talk about them Monday night, the heat, regardless of how the next two game go. You know, Hero's been awesome though. Yeah, Hero's been good. But then you get like Kyle Lowry and Drew Smith sharing point card minutes when you were flirting with Damien Liller this offseason. Let's talk about them Monday. Yeah, Drew Smith could walk down any busy street. in America wearing a Drew Smith jersey

and no one would know who it is. That's true. That's true. Or maybe he'll make a name for himself this season. You know what's crazy? They need to just get Gabe Vincent back. He hadn't done dick for the Lakers. It's weird.

Really weird. Look at his game log so far. Strange. I thought Gabe Benson would be like good for them. It's just been tough go so far, huh? Yeah, he missed last night's game, too. He was injured, so I don't know if he's dealing with something. But, yeah, he was out last night with a left knee soreness.

Maybe there's an injury that we hadn't known about in the prior games. Maybe so. All right. Kevin, it's been a terrible first week of the NBA. He's going to get better. It's got to. Yeah. Can't get worse.

We'll reconvene early next week. Thank you to our executive producer Jesse Lopez, as always. And Kevin, I'll talk to you next Monday night. Enjoy the in-season tournament, everybody. Must be 21 plus in president-select states. Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit fandul.com slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia.

Call 1-800 Next Step, or text Next Step 53344 in Arizona. Call 1-888-789-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. Call 1-8009 with it in Indiana. Call 1-800-522470 or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas. Call 1-877-770 stop in Louisiana. Visit MD Gambling. Help.org in Maryland. Visit 1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. Call 1-800-5224-7-0 in Wyoming. Hope is here. Visit Gamblinghelpline, MA.org. I'll call 1-800-327-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts.

Or call 1-8778 Hope N.Y or text Hope N.Y in New York.