The Mismatch - With No Time Lord There’s No Chance, the Suns' Immunity, and ROTY Misinterpretations

Episode Date: March 29, 2022

Verno and KOC begin the show by discussing the injury to Robert Williams and what it means to the Celtics (02:33). The Warriors have lost nearly every game since Steph Curry’s injury, and the guys discuss their bad stretch of games (18:16). The Suns have been by far the best team in the NBA, and the guys believe the only way they'll go down is with a major injury (23:31). After weeks of speculation, it was announced that Paul George will be making his return to the Clippers (41:48). Also, they discuss the race for MVP (49:20) and Rookie of the Year (56:33). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For as long as I've known the NBA, it's been a Stars League. But even among the Stars, there's an exclusive club. Russell and Dr. Jay, Jordan, Kobe. They're all part of a select group that paved the way for the NBA superstar of today. And some even shared secrets with each other along the way. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Jackie McMullen. And this is the icons club. Welcome to The Mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me.

He does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Colm, Kevin O'Colns, Kevin O'Colns. Kevin O'Noh. Or no! What's going on, man? How is your weekend? Everything is cool. I've been to a lot of basketball games since we last spoke.

I've seen the bucks in person. I've seen the Warriors. Wow. In person, though they were hobbled versions of themselves. But that is kind of the story as we head into the home stretch here of the regular season, and we keep an eye towards the playoffs. You see teams that are healthy going into these last six, seven games of the year, and you see those that need to get healthy in these last six or seven games of the year.

And probably the biggest story of the early week was the team that has been, by a pretty wide margin, the best team, analytically, over the course of the last month or two, has been the Boston Celtics. And we know that when it comes to the playoffs, so much of it is how much of your roster can be healthy to give you the best opportunity. And it was announced yesterday that Robert Williams, the time lord, tour his meniscus is going to be out several weeks. And so now Boston, who moved up to first place in the Eastern Conference standings, dropped one last night to Toronto and overtime in the first game without Rob Williams.

But they had moved up to number one in the standings. Now they lose Robert Williams. All joking aside, you and I have talked a lot about the Celtics, their opportunity in the playoffs, whether or not they were, in our opinion, Easter Conference Finals slash NBA Finals-Calibur team. In the absence of Rob Williams, Kevin, your opinion, how much is this going to damage their opportunity and or lower their ceiling? It ruins it.

It ruins it unless they're able to get Time Lord back at some point during the postseason and he's able to play at a near 100% level, which is hell of a lot to ask. This guy is for weeks now, Chris, how long have I been asking you, are we sure about the Celtics? Are we sure that they're not a finals contender? Are we sure that they're not a real major threat?

One of the big reasons why I've been so high on Boston in their elite defense is because of Robert Williams, with what he offers for that team, with his versatility off balls, a nuisance, rotating over, helping in the same, inside blocking shots as a guy primary on the ball switching on ball screens part of their defense that switches more screens than anybody in the NBA. He can defend bigs. He can defend wings. He can defend guards. Robert Williams, as of now, and I kind of sketch out my all defensive

teams, he's on that team. He's one of the 10 guys. He's somebody who's on the big pile of possibilities to be a guy in the top three of defensive player of the year. That's how great Robert Williams has been on defense this year for Boston. Never mind offensively, the rim running presence that he is, how great of a pastor that he is with quick hit decisions. And he's such a good screener. He fulfills everything that the Celtics need from him at a high level and to pull a guy like that out. Now you're relying on Grant Williams, Al Horford, and Daniel Tice, which you can get by with, the Celtics can still win around without those guys. And maybe they could even go even further. But I think with Robert Williams, he was the piece that could put you over the top to make the NBA finals and possibly win the whole thing.

Boston needs Robert Williams back to have any chance of doing that this season. Yeah, it's just crushing. And this is a dicey one because he's 24 years old. He just set career highs in virtually everything. Field goal percentage points, rebounds, assists, steals. I mean, he was doing everything for that team. And if you go back, he was a mega athlete who dropped the 27th in the draft.

And a major reason for that was people were scared of chronic injuries for both of his knees. And when he came in with left knee tendonitis, he's kind of dealt with left knee soreness throughout his career. And he's been limited to 174 appearances in four seasons. And so it was always a thing that was a concern, you know. I mean, it was a concern when they drafted him. It's been a concern in his four seasons in the league.

And so that's why this one is a little bit different than a guy that has been the beacon of health and then tears his meniscus, right? Like this, you know, this whole idea, and I know you try to stay positive with Emae Udocha yesterday. day. And he's like, you know, hope we can get him back, this kind of thing. Like, come on. I mean, you're going to have to have surgery. You and I have talked about the meniscus thing a lot because of Jaron Jackson Jr. He missed the whole season. James Wiseman. Now, those two guys, young, bigger players, and you can either remove or replace, right? You try to put it back together. And if you put it back to repair, if you repair it, that is a very long process that you hope does not have any setbacks. And yet, that's the one that kept Jaron Jackson Jr. out for

almost an entire season. Yeah. It's, it's also what Wiseman did. We don't know. It could be that. That's what Woj said. He said it could be the, you know, a procedure that knocks him out until sometime next season or a procedure that's a four to six week recovery. And that could bring him back sometime after the first round. We don't know which one it'll be yet. The Celtics don't know yet either. They said they will make a further announcement sometime later this week. That's the interesting decision because some guys do get it removed.

But then you can get the bone-on-bone thing. It's a guy that's already had problems with tendinitis. A long time now. That's going to be a very stressful decision because that could short-term getting back on the court. but in terms of having an extended career. And again, I don't know the condition of his knees, but here's the thing. The guy has had knee problems forever, right?

So that's why this one is super dicey. And I suppose you can't. I suppose you can't just say, hey, look, just get rid of the damn thing. And that is what some guys have done. And then, you know, long term, you're always scared about the tendinitis and the problems that come in after later in your career that you can't deal with and then post career. And he's 24. That's why, you know, and that's why the decisions were made for Jared Jackson Jr. and James Wiseman in a different way. There's was, hey, we're looking,

both those franchises, we're looking long term with you. You're still very young, your big guy, you know, let's get this thing repaired and take the extra time for it to heal up and get right. Now, Jackson was able to make it on the court. Wiseman has not because he's at a setback when doing this. So, you know, not only do you have to get the surgery, you have to hope it takes and that you don't have the major setbacks. And that's ultimately why this decision is going to be about more than this season for the Celtics. I mean, Whit Grossbeck, the Celtics co-owner, was on Boston Radio's The Greg Hill Show on WEI last week. And Whit Grossbeck has always been someone who lets his front office do what they want to do and gives them freedom, as long as he's owned that team. But he said something that was so interesting and it applies here.

He's like, he told a story of before this season talking with IMEA Udoka and Brad Stevens. And he told them, like, no pressure. this is your first year as a head coach this is your first year as a GM this doesn't have to be some record setting season i'm not freaking out over how the results of the season are because there's a young team that we have like jalen and jason we get the makings of something here what matters is the next five years and not having some band-aid solution for the short term they're thinking long term and that's what he said last week while they're on the win streak while robert williams is still healthy while i'll ever everybody's still feeling good. So this wasn't said this week is some response to the injury. That was before all this happened. And I think that quote is worth keeping in mind from Gross Beck because that is going to be the way they operate here.

They're going to do his best. If he can return, he can return. And they'll roll with it and see what kind of run they can make. But if he can't, they will do that in the best interest of the team long term. Because Chris, like you mentioned Time Lord is 24 years old. Tatum just turned 24 years old this month. Jalen Brown is only 25 years old. Derek White's only 27.

Marcus Smart's only 28. Grant Williams is only 23. Peyton Bridgett's only 24. This is a young team. Their core are all in their mid-20s. So for Boston, even though this team had a day on top of the Eastern Conference, there's still only a game back from the number one seed, this team is really only at the beginning, despite all their past runs.

The future for them continues to be incredibly bright. And it's not just about this season with the decisions that they make. overall, they've still built, you know, really a strong foundation to build upon in the years to come with Tatum and with Brown and with Robert Williams and with the guys they have on that team. That is really fascinating because what we have learned is it is more frustrating for fans for guys to take the long road and get it repaired. And again, we don't know. I mean, the doctors are going to have to decide. Right, can it? Jared Jackson, Jr. is having the best season of his career.

Like Time Lord, a defensive, all defensive team candidate, a guy who could be on one of those 10 spots. He is switching screens. He looks hyperathletic. He's not just hitting trees the way he did earlier in his career, but you think he can get that back. But there's no issue with his knee.

No issue with the knee. And ultimately, that's going to be the priority. How can we get Robert Williams to be as healthy as he can possibly be? Because one of the reasons why Boston was able to get him for four years, $54 million, looking like a bargain contract, is because of the concerns about his knees.

That's right. And that's one of the reasons why his team decided to sign that contract instead of testing restricted free agency while the Boston Celtics were willing to give that money. But ultimately, if he is able to stay healthy, that's going to be one of the biggest bargain contracts in all the basketball because he looked like a defensive player of the year caliber guy this season

and he's not done getting better. Well, and that's why it's more likely also to be a long-term decision. Yes. You would be more likely to just say, hey, get it removed. If you're a guy that's going to have a short career, if you're a guy that really needs to get a contract and you're going into, you know,

he's set. He got his money, right? And so you don't have to have those concerns. Older guys that have played a lot of years in the league or have a tremendous amount of money could just get it removed because they say, hey, I've made my money. I don't think I'm going to, you know, I can deal with this for X amount of years.

But when you're 24 and you're hoping to play, you know, at least eight, 10 more years, I would imagine in the league, now it becomes an eight or 10 year decision. And you feel comfortable making that because you've got, you're secure. You know what I mean? Like you've gotten the money,

so you're not worried about that. And the other thing is it's not like your last chance. chance. Some guys look at it and they go, this is my best chance to get a title or this is going to be my only chance at getting a title. Like, get me back on the court in four to six weeks. And that again, I don't know. I mean, hell, this guy's had knee problems forever. So, I mean, there's no telling what they can do with. I mean, I've got multiple league sources telling me, Nick Stouskas is in the Celtics medical room just saying you get to bring time lord back. This is my last opportunity. You think they listen to Stouskas, Chris? I Can you imagine if that got picked up, if that got aggregated as a real thing, even though I'm very clearly joking. Could.

Can you imagine that? Wait. Clammering for Robert Williams to come back. You are reporting that, right? So I'll make sure. Kevin O'Connor of the Rigger.com says that Nick Statskiske's just went into the trading room and said, Rob, I don't give a damn what it takes.

Get back. This is my shot in the title. Yeah. Okay. Just making sure. Yeah, the big stuff, just the 28-year-old, I mean, he's still pretty young, too.

Actually, he's got time. All right. So just to wrap up, you think that this damages the Celtics round two and later. They can still get past a first round series theoretically, but once you met up with,

a Philly, Miami, a Milwaukee. That's where it becomes a bridge too far. That's where it can become troubling. Because Robert Williams is the guy who's switching on to Akiri. He's helping in the pain against Janus.

I mean, he's just so insanely down. Well, there's a lot of bigs, right? There's Bam that you got to deal with. There's Janus that you got to deal with. There's MB that you got to deal with. Oh, so many. It's endless.

Any potential second round matchup is a, is a major challenge. But, you know, for Boston, ultimately, though, we'll get news by the end of the week. On Friday show, I'm sure at that point, we'll know exactly with Robert Williams what's going to happen. And it's, I had in my article this morning, Chris, I opened with the line kind of about how on Sunday night Robert Williams has his meniscus injury and then Will Smith slaps Chris Rock. And like, everybody's still like talking about that like crazy. It's kind of funny. I've just been thinking a lot about NBA still. That's just where my mind goes.

And I wanted to ask you, in six weeks, you know how fast the news cycle moves where things come and go. Do you think in six weeks when Robert Williams could potentially return, more people care about Robert Williams potentially returning or still the Will Smith, Chris Rock's lap? Oh, it's not even close. It's the Will Smith, Chris Rocks. People are going to care. People are going to care about that until the end of time.

That's not going away. No. Not going away. It's two of the most famous people on earth. Not going away. So that's here to stay. It's always going to be a meme. Meme culture is always going to use that.

It's always going to be that. But it could also turn up the content for Will Smith. And they're both incredibly famous still. Yes. Will Smith has 68 million TikTok followers. He has 10 million on YouTube. Like, it's great content. Yes.

It's not like they used to be famous. They're still at their apex of fame. Yeah, they are. You know what I mean? Yeah. Will Smith is an actor and a content creator. So I'm with you, though. People are still going to be caring about.

I mean, look, when there are, look, both of those individuals, my kids would know who they are, who are eight and 12. My parents would know who they are who are 74 and 73. That says all you get enough. That's how famous those guys are. That says everything you get enough. Yeah. Right?

Like, I mean, that's, it's impossible for kids all the way to seniors to know who I'm talking about if I mention their names. Now, I will tell you, my kids nor my parents would have absolutely any idea who Robert Williams would, is save my son, who is a massive MBA fan. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm sure my daughter would think it's cool if I told her it's the time lord. The time lord.

She would think that's awesome. She would be like, wait, why do they call him the time? Is he really the time lord? it would be one thing if he were like LeBron. If it were LeBron, I think then it could be a real conversation in six weeks. What's going to be the bigger news story? But Robert Williams against Chris Rock. Sorry, good.

Good luck, time, Lord. Yeah. Just wanted to ask. I was curious. Yeah, that thing's not going away. The game I was at last night saw the Grizzlies lock up the two seed for all intensive purposes. Congrats, Chris. Congratulations.

Golden State, I mean, it was a shell of... Poor Grizzlies talk. It was a shell of gold. They're the second best team in the NBA. Golden State has a real chance to drop below three. So your Golden State Warriors are in true peril. And the reason that this matters, I was talking to some guys from Golden State last night, the reason that it matters is because if you drop to four,

If Dallas flips it on you, and now Dallas is three, and you're four, forget a first round series with Utah. Like, let's throw that aside, okay? It's that you would meet Phoenix in the next round. That's where it's the major issue if you drop. And in the absence of Curry, they can't beat anybody. The only game they've won is the game where Jimmy Butler almost fought Eric's Bolshe. What I tell you at the time of that injury, Chris, it could all fall apart. And man, it has.

And obviously, last night, no Dremont, no clay, no auto porter. Like, those guys aren't even playing back to backs after they had gotten beat by Washington. And so now the game is not worth talking about. The Grizzlies and Phoenix are set. But now what becomes extremely interesting is what happens, with Golden State because you look at their schedule and yeah, you can say, hey, there's a game in there against the Lakers, there's a game against the spurs, there's some others, but like, it virtually every team they play outside of the Kings needs the win like blood.

They could lose out. Look at their schedule and it's like every one of those teams is playing for something. They got sons on Wednesday. Then they get a back-to-back at home against the jazz, then on the road against the king. Then they don't play until Thursday. So they're Sunday to Thursday when they face the Lakers on T&T, then at Spurs and at Pelicans. Like you said, Chris, the timing of those games, too. Every one of them.

Last two games against it, the Pelicans and the Spurs, both of them are going to need to win. Lakers are going to need the win. The only one is the Kings game where you're like, okay, that could be a win for a goal and say, but even without Steph, you don't know if that's going to be a dub. You don't know. The Kings have good players. The Air Fox is averaging like 30 points in the last two months. now. They have good talent there.

So I'll, well, here's the other thing, Kemp. What if they, what if they drop and if they sit their guys, if they decide, hey, we're still, we care about the playoffs the most, we're going to sit second half of back to backs. I tell you, the team I saw that, they can't beat anybody.

No. They're not beating anybody. They're not even beating the Kings if they run that out there. Unless the Kings want to intentionally lose. You know, the funny thing is here is, it's not impossible for them to even slide to five.

Like they might lose out on home court. There's a possibility there because there's only a two and a half game difference against the Jazz. And they have that game against the Jazz that could close that gap very quickly. There's a chance Golden State even loses home court in the

first round. That's how tight it is and how bad they've been. Not a lot of time left for that to happen because Utah would even win a hell of a lot too to close that gap. But there's that possibility. And I mean, we'll see. We'll see if they do.

And then it opens up. Do we know anything about the Steph Curry return, the timing of that, Chris? They said playoffs. They said it'll be able to come back by the playoffs. They did say playoffs, right? First round. So not even before the playoffs. Right.

So, but you look at it and you say, then it opens up for everybody outside of getting past Phoenix. Because wouldn't you say, in a scenario where you're playing in the playoffs, you would think, hey, Golden State is somebody that you don't want to meet when it matters most. These guys have more playoff scars than anyone. They've got the championship pedigree.

Even if they haven't been together, you have to give them the credit that when you get, and which they have not had, but when you get Curry, Clay, and Draymond back there, and you get them in a playoff setting, and they can play healthy. Now if one of Golden State or Phoenix is getting popped out in the second round, well, then that other side of the bracket, which is going to include Memphis and Dallas,

and then potentially, you know, who knows, maybe Denver, if they were able to win a first round series, if it ended up being Denver and Dallas, or whoever, right, like Minnesota could get. in the mix. I mean, and now if those two teams, you would certainly, no matter who's handicapping it, you would make those the two favorites. You would say Phoenix and Golden State, even despite their injuries, there's going to be people that are riding with those two teams. And the fact that if they drop to four or five, that they're going to be meeting Phoenix in the second round, and then one of those teams won't even be a representative in the Western Conference Finals, that's when I said,

everything comes into play because as we know, so much of this is predicated upon who stays healthy. And one twisted ankle, one, as we just talked about with Rob Williams, torn meniscus. I mean, it can truly change the course of history. And now you're not having to get past Golden State and Phoenix. There's just one of those teams involved that you would even have to meet. And clearly Phoenix has to be, in my estimation, the overwhelming favorite. I believe they're even money right now to win the Western Conference. I would even make them minus money to win the Western Conference.

But the idea that they could face their, you know, biggest challenge in the second round and on the Golden State side that they could get, you know, they either got to beat Phoenix or they're not playing in the West Finals. that's when this thing gets very, very, very, very interesting because as you mentioned with their schedule, and it doesn't look good, you've got a bunch of teams that need to win and you're more focused on health

and just being the full version of yourself, right? Yeah, I mean, and I think you're right about the suns. They are the clear favorites. Of course. Look at their record. I mean, 61 and 14, they have so many layers to who they are on offense and defense. They can play so many different styles or they can just play through Chris Paul or through Devin Booker.

This team is so deep, their ability to withstand some of the losses they've had over the course of the season and just keep on rolling forward. The fact that, like you said, the Warriors are a grizzled team, they would have been feared. The sons are a grizzled team. They should be feared they've been through before. Bronthy Williams has been through it before. They have arguably the coach of the year in him. Arguably, I mean, like they have

all NBA guys. They have all potential all D guys. McKell Bridges, DeAndre Aiton, this team is absolutely freaking stacked. And they have clearly presented themselves over the course of the season as the clear favorite

in the Western Conference. And ultimately, I wonder, can anybody beat them, Chris? Like, do you think that there's a formula for any of these teams to get hot or a team that's a bad matchup to beat the Suns in the Postseason? I think they would have to get injured.

You think the Suns would have to have injuries? Like a Chris Paul hamstring type of thing. That's always on the table with energy. Like you think, well, you think it's that much of a differential from Phoenix over Memphis and Golden State and Dallas. Like if Luke is average in 38 points in a playoff series, it's that much

of a difference with the Suns? I mean, look, I heard, I think Rissillo gave this that when he was on Bill's podcast, that in clutch basketball, like these games that are decided by five or less, which you know so many of the playoff games come down to, that they have a net rating of plus 32. Now, that was going into Sunday,

which it would have improved based upon what they did against Philly, because that was a two-point game with like four minutes left to go, and they ran them out the building. the rest of the way. They're like plus 32 or something per 100 possessions. They get every stop. They get every bucket. They also, I think he said, were 17 points better in that scenario than every team in the league.

Like, I think that, you know, they're not on national TV as much. They don't get as much talk. I think in part probably because they, they lost. in the finals last year, and so we don't always give as much attention or as much credit until you do it. But that team, in my estimation, deserves to be looked at as the overwhelming favorite. And I don't think that there is, I think that they are immune to bad matchup. That's what I would tell you. You look at what they have. They are another year of playing together.

They also got to get all those playoff reps and finals reps together. And yeah, I don't see, I don't, I don't see any way that they, um, they should not be the overwhelming favorite when they've got all these games now under their belt. And they've proven it over the course of the year. But they've lost less than 15 games the whole year. I think four of them were just recently when Chris Paul went out, right? So, I mean, you asked me, who should they worry about? Like, they haven't had to worry about anybody all year.

They've been beating the crap out of people the whole season. I just think that we haven't viewed them like we've viewed maybe some other teams in the past that have had this level of success. but they're going to end up with over 65 wins this year, Kevin. And that deserves to be honored. And I do think that, I mean, outside of them getting injured, I think you've got to give people credit for what they've done. And the credit for what they've done in my estimation is saying

it would take a monster effort by somebody to knock that team out. or them catching an injury, which is totally possible. Chris hasn't made it through playoffs over the course of his career. Now, they were impressive without him, but that is the truth. If you go back and look at the history, forget what you think about performance. He hasn't made it through playoffs healthy throughout the course of his career more often than not. and that's a massive wild card for sure. Absolutely.

Know that about it. And that's the big question, Chris Paul's health. And who knows, maybe it'll turn out to be a blessing in disguise that he did miss some time with the hand injury,

able to rest up those legs, build them up for another postseason run, and fully reloaded for a three-month journey all the way to the NBA finals again, and maybe this time with a different result because they are, 100% built and prepared and experienced enough to accomplish that.

You look at the standings right now, and there is a game that is going on tonight that features the Lakers. And, you know, they've been a story because they've got the big stars. Clearly, they've got the limelight all the time. They're always on national television. They're one of the premier franchises in the NBA. And we've talked about, you know, what a colossal disappointment this is. season is on and on. But we always expect it.

Until this last week, I never fathomed them not making the play yet. And now, after they blew that huge lead to the Pelicans, and LeBron comes to the post-game press conference after playing 42 minutes with his ankle wrapped and said it feels horrible, and he's not playing tonight, and Anthony Davis is not playing tonight. and you're right there at the end of the season. It's the first time I've considered, holy shit, they're not even going to be in the play-in?

I sent that text for us. Will they shut down LeBron James? Does he get a mysterious injury this week? We'll see. I mean, that's what might be happening. I got to say. I'm telling you, Chris,

like, they don't want to get embarrassed in the playing. I tell you this. I don't understand how the guy played 42, minutes. I mean, it was gutted it out, I guess. Like, I mean, like, I don't understand. And you can say, well, that's because that game mattered so much against the Pelicans. But he injured it with 10 minutes left in the second quarter. And sure, he did not have the same exposure. There's no doubt he twisted his ankle. Anybody could watch a video. He twisted his ankle. But,

But then to continue to play the entire time and play 42 minutes on it, I don't know if, I guess there's this feeling that that should be looked at as heroic or something. But like, what in the world? I mean, well, LeBron has been pretty heroic this last month. It's the only thing that's worth watching on that team right now, really. I mean, now he's got, when he termed a horrible anchor. ankle injury or it felt horrible. And so they're going to be without him.

And like, it's real. Like the Spurs are, they're winning. And so they very way, you know, might flip this thing. Which is too bad for Spurs fans that wanted to tank. I mean, for Spurs friends who want to make the playoffs, congratulations. But for the Spurs fans who wanted the tank, I'm sorry. Well, why? Why would you be sorry?

because if you wanted to tank, you're winning games, and now you might lose out on a top 10 pick. But I mean, you can't have it both ways. No, no, no. I'm saying like there are some fans who would want to make the play in. Well, and you feel this way too. You think the spurs should not make it. Right?

Yes, and there are some fans who want them to tank out, get the lottery odds. And I would be one of those fans. Yeah, you think that they should not be trying to make this, right? Yes, exactly. And I would ask you, how can you have it both ways when you told me, when I criticize the Pelicans for the win now move, that they should be trying to win? Because they have Zion Williamson, who is indeed a friend. Well, they have him under contracts. What are you talking about?

Because they have him under contract. And because there is pressure there to build a winning team around him and because they already had a. pretty good roster, even without him. So adding C.J. McCollum and making the moves that they did was about building a roster that's ready to compete once Zion returns. And the incentive for the Pelicans to get into the playoffs is you could knock the Lakers out. They have the Lakers first round pick if it's in the top 10, which right now, if they did not, if the Spurs were to knock the Lakers out, bump that down even further, who knows? Maybe the Lakers end up winning the lottery, which would mean the Pelicans actually end up getting a top four pick. There's a possibility.

ability of that. So for New Orleans, because they do have another team's first round pick and because they have Zion Williamson and Ingram and a lot of good talent on their roster, I was in favor of pushing for the postseason. Whereas for the Spurs, I'd rather with this young team that's kind of in a transitional phase, I'd rather lose out and get the higher draft lottery odds. That's the answer your question. But if you don't make it, you're getting a high pick too, right? If you're the Pelicans? Yes. Then you could have two chances instead of one. But all I'm saying is I understand them going forward. That's all. It's just different circumstances.

Yeah, no, but why wouldn't you want the two picks? That would be great. But you also have Zion Williamson already. You've got, you have another pick coming in. Do you? Do you? I think so. Do you have Zion Williamson? Maybe, maybe. How about that thing dying down? Yeah. I could just, he's doing this windmill between the legs, dunk, and then it just goes away. Yeah, we'll see. I guess the next day there was like a video of him playing one-on-one with Corey Brewer.

I know you want to see that situation fail. Why? I could just tell. Why would I want that situation to fail? If there's anything I have proven over the years, it's that I've, I want guys to survive, thrive, and be happy in small markets. Like, that has been an ongoing,

the number one pick ahead of jaw. That has been an ongoing theme throughout my entire career. Is it really like, it's an overwhelming concern that it's just going to fail and it's going to be another small market team that blows again?

Look, there's no question. To me, it's not good when a guy goes to the, when the number one pick goes somewhere and then wants to go elsewhere, you know, in the minds of some that have reported, I mean, when you hear whether you want to take him seriously or not and save it,

Pelicans fans, I don't want to hear your tweets, all right? But when Stephen A. Smith is on national television saying from the moment he got drafted, he didn't want to go there. He wanted to go to New York. It's the worst kept secret in the NBA.

Everybody knew he wanted to be. Like, that's not good. Yeah. That's not good for anybody. So the idea that I want it to fail, no, I would love for him to re-up and be in New Orleans for a long time and that there get to be a rivalry between small markets and the number one and the number two pick. That's not good for anybody if it ends with him going elsewhere. And instead of building up that franchise and being happy there and, you know, look, they deserve a choice.

tremendous amount of blank. It would be a, what is this, a third or fourth coach already. There's been turnover. This is another reason why, though, Chris, that I think with the Pelicans, I'd want to see them push for the postseason. Whereas for the Spurs,

or even the Knicks, like the Knicks winning four games in a row here, I just, I get disappointed by that if I put myself in the shoes of those fans. I just do. I think with a big market of the Knicks, If you have the support of James Dolan to lose a little bit,

get a higher pick that's good for you. If you're the Spurs, you got Pop there, you get this front office that's been together for so long now. They have support. There's a cushion. They can lose for a year and miss out in the playoffs, and it can be okay. With the Pelicans, there's so much at risk for losing out,

for being underwhelming, for disappointing. There's the, you know, you did call it the C.J. McCollum, I forget it may be a mighty paraphrasing. I save your ass move with C.J. McCollum for the Pelicans. it was kind of that, but it was also kind of a, let's make Zion happy moves. But he doesn't fit his timeline. He doesn't fit his timeline. He doesn't.

He does. Lanzo Ball fits his timeline. Josh Hart fits his time line. Yeah, but like he fits his game, though. That's the thing. He fits his game. And like Zion hasn't played with a guard who can shoot off the bounce and generate shooting and scoring opportunities like McCollum can.

And Zion, if he does return, you're going to see the potential of having a Zion, CJ McCollum pick and roll that can shred defenses with spacing around them and defensive versatility on the other end. So, like, to me, even though he doesn't fit age-wise, he's somebody that can help propel this team up on another level now early on in Zion's career during his first contract, try to make some runs, get that experience like is so valuable for young players. and then maybe in the future you're finding a new guy that can take on that responsibility that C.G. McCollum has now,

unless he's able to sustain success and get better into his 30s, like a DeBardo Rosen did. DeMarda Rosen goes to San Antonio, he gets better, then he goes to Chicago and people are talking about as somebody who's going to be on all-NBA ballots. And C.G. McCollum, he's never been an all-star, has never been all-N-B-A. Maybe he becomes that in New Orleans,

and is a guy in his early 30s that is actually in his prime at that point of his career. So that's the way I look at it for the, the Pelicans. And I think this team is set up for great success if they get a healthy Zion Williamson back, which, who knows? The ship sailed on that trade. I mean, as soon enough, come on.

Look at Josh Hart. Look at Josh Hart. Yeah, we'll see. Let's talk about Josh Hart. We'll see. The OK Josh Hart. He's fine. Flame throwing.

He's all right. Flame throwing. Yeah, he has a play in like two weeks, but not as good to see that. Well, that's not his fault. Nobody playing. There's some of these teams where it's like, all right, nobody's playing anymore. That Oklahoma City Portland game last night, the guys that were out. CJ's average are like 27 points per game with the Falcons, Chris.

So like seven assists, like 27, six and five on great efficiency. CJ McCallum's awesome. Hey, he's a really good player. I'm so excited that CJ has a team where he can be the guy in the backport. I've been wanting to see this for so many years now. dame to get split up. You have the spurs charging. You have the Lakers season on the real brink.

I guess it's Russ by himself. Imagine this. Russell Westbrook's got to save the season. Russ has been better in recent weeks. What if, shooting the ball better? He needs one of those 50, 20, and 20 games. Can you imagine it comes out doing that?

It would be hilarious. If Russell Westbrook saves the Lakers season, that would be the best part of the story. He has been better, the last, what, 10 days or so? Something like that. He's been much better. Also, when we're looking towards this play-in and whoever ends up making it, whether it's the Lakers, whether it's San Antonio, who knows, here comes Paul George. He is cleared for practice.

It's announced yesterday. And we've been on top of this, Chris. Yeah, and as we talked about, look, Kiv, even with just Paul George, ask Utah. That's no picnic. No, it's not. You know, playing against that team. And they're better this year, too. Yeah, and he is one of the best players in the NBA.

And when you're throwing him in, like, Ty Lou, as I've talked about throughout this season, he's not going to get coach of the year. he's probably not even going to get coach of the year vote. But I promise you, there is no team that I have seen in person this year, that I walked out of the arena saying I have absolutely no idea how that team has won as many games as they have. Like, no team even compares to the Clippers. Like, this guy is Merlin. How are they winning?

You know, and this is what? And no Kauai, no Paul George. I'm like, how do they win games? So the fact that they're even where they are in the standings without those two guys is incredible to me. And I do think you've got to give them, you know, a puncher's chance against anybody just because they deserve that after what they did to Utah in the playoffs last year, for sure.

especially when they were going up against modern day Bill Russell and he was like minus 36 in the second half or something like that I think he was minus 36 in the second half I don't know I didn't check the number there's something like that and Terrence man is just

defecating I can't wait to see the Clopiers beat the Grizzlies in the first round and then that's not don't work that's not happening. I can't wait to play this clip back. That's not happening.

All right. Curbary enthusiasm music at the end. If you would like to, hey, if you would like to bet me, I mean, you name the price. You won't bet $5,000, $10,000, $20,000. What do you want to bet me? What do you want to bet me? You think I'm worried about damn? Get serious.

Give me some odds. I'm trying to get on Kauai Leonard coming back and with no Kauai. Not Kauai Leonard coming back. That's what we're talking about. That's not what we're talking about. That's a different story. Okay, well, that's what I'm talking about. I still think, I still, I'm telling you, Chris, how long have I been saying?

Kauai Leonard and Paul George, the intentions are to have them back. Well, Paul George is coming back Thursday. Kaui Leonard now is going to have an opportunity here. The Clippers have lost five games in a row. They've had a little bit of a skid. Kaui, Leonard, and his group are going to have an opportunity to see what the clippers look like with Paul George before deciding is it time to come back. That's what's going to happen.

you go back and hey look if you go back then let's just say right that um let's say Memphis is two and let's say Dallas is three if I'm being look I'm gonna be totally fair here if you could get those two guys back I know in their minds and it plays out the way we said where golden state is four yeah you say look you've got to to beat Memphis. You got to beat Memphis and you got to beat Dallas. They can be in the West Finals. Right?

That's what, if you're them, because that is a different deal than if you say I've got to beat Golden State. Exactly. And then I've got to beat whoever it may be. Memphis or Denver, Dallas. But anybody else? Anybody else? Like with Kauai and Paul George just coming back, you could be at anybody.

And then by the time you're in the Western Conference finals against the Phoenix. or against the Golden State or whoever gets there. Like at that point, you know, it's two months in. You know, they get their basketball legs, basketball conditioning. You'd hope in full health. You get a chance to win the whole freaking thing. Right. And I do think that if you could get both of those guys back, obviously,

I don't think they could do it with just Paul George, as I mentioned. Oh, no. Okay. But if you were to get George and Kauai and it breaks like that, and you know one of Golden State or Phoenix is getting found. in the second round that does change things it does change things

dramatically actually you nailed it Chris you nailed it and like I'm if you were thinking about coming back I'm telling you it those are the intentions no don't say we'll see

don't say that that is that is that is that would be so it'd be so bogus if Memphis gets the frigate two seed a Kauai Leonard comes back I'll throw a fit then you'll be agreeing with me about the topic that will not be named. I don't know.

What would be amazing is if he came back and then Memphis dropped them. That would be really cool. That would be amazing. That would be cool drama. Kauai comes back for the... And then they lose? Maybe not. And then that whole thing blows up.

And that's the end of the clippers. No, I don't think so. You know what I mean? I mean, maybe. But maybe that's what it resulted about. What are you talking about? If they, what are you talking? If Kauai later came back and they got beat by Biggers,

I promise you, they would break that up. It depends on how you lose. If you lose work like Kauai is very clearly not 100%. He's working things out still. Then it's fine. You had a good season. Ty Lou is Merlin, as you said, and blah, blah, blah, this and that. You come back next season, reloaded.

And then you go for a run, you know, from the start in October. It could be that. But if they lose like an embarrassing fashion where the team just totally craters, then yeah, maybe there's big changes on the horizon. It's fun. We've talked about it before though, but it is crazy to think about that we could actually be nearing a point

that Kauai Leonard plays zero regular season games, and he comes back and the Clippers make a playoff run. The goat of load management. Like, you'd be unsurpassed. I love it. I love it. I wonder if there's ever been someone

like a significant player. I'm not talking about like an ad. Oh, like zero regular season games and then win a championship. Or play in it. Just not play 82 games at all. Never appear. And then come back for the postseason. And then just show up in the playoffs and play.

I wonder. If anybody has a good way of it. It's had to have happened. Yeah, I'd love to do some research into that. But not like a superstar. I mean, because usually you've got a little bit of a run up. At least, you know, the last 10, 15 games or something like that that you would play. Even when guys come back very late in the season, you would play 5, 10, 15 games, whatever it may be.

And then you'd be available for the playoffs. But if you played zero regular season games, it would be amazing on your basketball reference. It says zero games for like the 21, 22 season. But then there's a whole playoff log for games. Yep. It appears, Kevin, that we are going to have the best MVP race in a long, long time. Like, this is actually going to be very, very drama-filled.

We were having a discussion on our group text. And I know, I don't think he'd mind me saying this, Bill Simmons and some others, you know, they're still undecided. Like, I do feel like there, there are guys out there that are going to vote on this that don't have like they're not set in stone even now with six or seven games left number one who they're going to vote for and number two the order in which they would vote for them once you do figure it out and i'm talking about

the three guys that are the overwhelming favorites and that's yokech embied and yonis and they've been the overwhelming favorites for some time. But you have the, whoever's going to get the votes for number one. And then what kind of votes you get in second place and third place may end up deciding this.

Now, Timbantems came out with his straw poll. And maybe more importantly, I looked this morning and fan duel has moved Yokic's MVP odds early this morning. It was plus 165. So if you put $100, you'd win $165. Now, after, you know, the straw pole is out there and people talk about it, it's plus 105. So if you put $100 bucks, you'd only win $105 on Yokch. That's pretty, I mean,

they're laying it out there with the odds. in terms of Yokic. And I'll tell people publicly what I said privately when we were talking about it. I said, I think what's going to happen is there are going to be people a lot that are very supportive of Yokic winning the MVP and think Yokic should win the MVP. And I think there's more of those than our dead set on MBE should win it or are dead set on Yanis should win it. Therefore, I think that when it comes down to it, you're going to have the Yokic votes for first, and then the other two are the ones that are actually going to split votes.

I think it's a lot more likely that Yonis and Mbid start splitting votes and moving places within people's rankings than it is Yokic and Mbid or Yokic and Yadis. I think there's a pretty solid group of people that are on the Yokic train and more than the other two, and that's going to end up deciding it. Because, you know, anybody that says I'm voting for Yokic, then who they rank second and third is actually going to decide the order. That's what I think. Yeah. I mean, it'll be very interesting to see the way this ends up shaking out because each of these straw holes that Fon Temps has done.

ESPN have been pretty different like a couple weeks ago. Yokic wasn't even on all the ballots and now he's first place. But they do end up being very accurate. They do end up being very accurate. Because he talks to media members. Yeah. You know what I mean? And a lot of people that have the votes.

Exactly. A lot of people that have voted in the past, he messages them. And the one thing that shocked me on the one this morning is Jha being fourth, Tatum being fifth, then Luca being sixth, not even in the top five. Like that shocked me. He's averaging 28 points, nine rebounds, nine assists. He's been one of the best players in all of basketball since early January, averaging like well over 30 points, basically like nearly a triple double. LeBron James style stat line with elite efficiency and playing good defense.

I was surprised not to see Luca in the top five because for me, when I've been constructing my ballot, my top four, no offense to you with Jha in Memphis. but I have the top four in some order, like Yolk it, Shabeed, Janus, and then Luca force. I thought Luca was kind of locked into the top five personally. Well, and Morantz has missed 20 games, and he's going to end up missing more. And what, Memphis is 18 and 2 without Jha,

and that plays into it as well. Jaws an all NBA guy, no doubt about it. But top five MVP ballot, I was surprised not to see Luca into top five, because he's just been absolutely insane. I think it just speaks to I think it speaks to whatever the narrative is, right? Yeah, but why should it be about the narrative, though?

I don't get it. It's the same thing with Booker. It's the same thing with Booker. You know what I mean? Booker should, Booker should arguably be first team all NBA. Booker saying that people don't respect that. I'm not even in this conversation.

I mean, I'm not even in this conversation. And all anybody said to me was, you know, his point is, Only anybody said to me was, yeah, you put up a lot of numbers, but you lose every night. And so then they say it's about winning. Well, now I freaking win more than anyone there is. Now what? Yeah.

Like, I do understand that frustration. I totally understand it. I get, I mean, I have that frustration, too. It's like, all you guys did was shit on me for losing. And now I win more than anybody. And I'm 25, 5, and 5 or whatever. And it's like, I'm not even mentioned where, what? was he on that straw pole? Was he even in the top

eight? Where was Booker? Because you said that Luca and someone else was even, the Tatum was six Luca, then seven Booker was seven. Right, so seven. Which I think is fair. I mean, I might

have him fifth on my ballot. And I'm considering him for a first team on VA as well. So he's either going to be top five MVP and the second guard on my ballot, or he's going to be like one of clear choices as the second team all-N-B-A guy, which is like, I don't, I think that's,

I think that's fair personally, but. So Booker did speak out about the, you know, about, he did the whole, put some respect on my name. Whereas, Dallas, there hasn't been that. There hasn't, like, there hasn't. Nor should there be, because he's not going to. Yeah, if Luke came out and said, like, what are you people watching?

What, like, I'm better than these guys and look at what I've done. And, you know. Did you see, probably be the reason for, who we will start talking about it. I mean, ultimately, though, it's going to be one of the three, Yokach and Beater Janus. And that's for sure.

All of these 20 other names that we're talking about, what about this guy, what about that guy, who, who, what about this and that? It's like, all just a waste of air. Understood.

Yeah, like, it's all about the top three. All right, well, let me ask you about the rookie of the year thing because this is my favorite. Oh, we're getting close. I don't know if you saw this in Sports Illustrated.

Do you see the Kate Cunningham thing? No, I don't. I feel like I'm the rookie of the year. I think that's a miss. interpretation that I'm not. I love that. He said it's a misinterpretation that he's when people say I'm not the rookie of the year. That's a misinterpretation. Jade cutting game is currently leading all rookies in points per game, 17. He's fifth in rebounds. He's second in assists. In comparison, Cavs Rising Star Evan Mowbrley, who is the current

rookie of the year favorite, is fifth in points among all rookies, as well as number one. in rebounds and 10th in assists. And clearly Mobley has been part of a team that was one of the great surprise stories in the NBA this year. Mobley twisted his ankle. And so with Cleveland with an eye towards the playoffs, it's certainly something to monitor. And who knows how many games he'll play down the stretch. Do you think that rookie of the year is undecided? Also, by the way, Scotty Barnes needs to have his name in there too, right?

Scott. Scotty Barnes is probably the favorite for me. Those are going to be the top three for sure. Yeah. I mean, Scotty Barnes might be where I'm leaning. Really? Him or Mobley. I think I have Cade third, which is no knock against him.

I don't even like. It's a misinterpretation. Yeah, I don't even really like, I don't even really love like, tearing down one of these guys just to prop up another one. Well, why are you misinterpretingham? I mean, he's just one of the least efficient scorers in all the basketball over the course of the full season

for one. I think that's a misinterpretation that I'm not looking at the year. As Michael Pina had in that article, which I just pulled up and had not read until I didn't know about it. This is great. Michael Pina wrote in there. Cage, true shooting percentage,

ranks 61st out of 62 players who have taken at least 8. hundred shots. Stop bringing up old stuff. If you're asking for a reason why I'm Kate behind some of those guys, well, that's one of the reasons why. His true shooting percentage. I mean, I know the raw stats like him,

but we've got to dive a little deeper into his true shooting percentage to find out. I'm reping Kate Cunningham, who says it's a misinterpretation. It's a misinterpretation. I know, I know. But ultimately, like, who voters chose between Cunningham, Barnes and Mobley, it's all a matter of taste and what type of player type that you're super much into and think has contributed to the most of their team. Barnes and Mobley have consistently been, especially Mobley, good on defense, have been contributors on offense. Scotty Barnes, it does everything on the offensive end for that team and a range of roles. like Cunningham over the second half of the year,

ever since his slow start, has been stellar as a shock creator. It's just guys can't hit shots on Detroit. But he has advanced as a score, except Marvin Bagley. Speaking of putting respect on somebody's name, who! Watch out for Marvin Bagley, Kev-o.

Watch out. I mean, I'm looking up. It's 25. It's 27. Listen, listen. Listen, Cade Cunningham is one of those guys who makes teammates better. How about Marvin Bagley making Cade Cunningham better? How about that?

How about that? How about him saving his ass? And nobody talking about Kate Cunningham for rookie of the year until Marvin Bagley got there. That's a misinterpretation. Marvin Bagley went there and saved him. Somebody's got to finish. Somebody's got to be big. He could turn it into assists, finally.

He's not throwing the ball to Isaiah Stewart anymore. Whatever happened to that chick? How about that girl? I don't know. I don't know what happened to work. Anyway, I think it's going to end up being mobiley anyway, but I do love Kate Cunningham is out there reping himself. Yeah, I mean, listen, like any of those through,

look, we have a dynamic and deep and amazing 2021 draft class. And I can't wait to see which of these guys ends up becoming the best of their career. Who wins rookie of the year? I mean, it's interesting and it's a great honor. and one of those guys is deserving. It's a great rookie class. It is a great rookie class, and I don't know who's going to end up

becoming the best from this draft class. That's what I look forward to the most, more than anything, more than who wins rookie year, is how do these guys end up developing? Because all three of them play such mature games already, Mobley, Cunningham, and Barnes in their own respective ways.

And they're only going to get better. It might end up being Jalen Green. Jailene Green. Exactly. He's the quickest, the most, athletic of those guys and arguably the best shooter of that group too. Like there's a change. What if it's giddy?

What if it's giddy that ends up being the best guy? You never know. Giddy was somebody who is in the top five rookie of the air conversation as well. Granted, it's a three-man ballot. But he'd be first team. So I don't know. This is such a deep class. And Davian Mitchell's having some good games.

Herb Jones, Iodo Sunmo, in the second round. It's a hell of a year, man. Yep. Last thing. So we do have a bunch of blue bloods that are involved in the NCAA tournament final four. We covered Paulo last episode. I do want to ask you of the guys that are there now, one guy that we didn't even mention, is that Baycott guy?

Is he in the mix, Armando? Because he's the one that stole the show individually in one of the games this weekend with the 20 and 22 game. Do you think he should be? I don't know. I don't know about Baycott. I know that that is incredibly productive. There's no way around that. And I don't know what he projects as.

Is he on draft boards, Baycott? I haven't had him on mine now. Yeah, I didn't know if he was thought of as a draftable guy or not. But, I mean, that is a monster elite eight game. And I don't want to hear about the whole, yeah, who he's playing St. Peter's. I mean, that guy was doing it against Baylor, too. fake out was he he had what 20 and 20 against st peter's 20 and 22 yeah and and then he's had a double double i believe in each game in the tournament if i remember correctly yeah yeah he's been sensational i mean if he could add a three-pointer at some point you know maybe maybe that help

your case and the modern NBA but he's more of that interior guy yeah uh rebounding rebounding rebounding type interior score he's a good college player i mean maybe there's a chance he seems like somebody to me you give him a shot give him an opportunity. But we'll see if he even comes out. He has one more year. Might want to stay all four years at North Carolina. It feels like Williams probably has helped himself the most. Is that fair? Mark Williams, yeah. He's been, I love Mark Williams. He's just going to be a good center for 10 plus years. I feel like he's the one that people have noticed more, you know, I feel like some of the other guys got clear. Paula's been talked about all year. But I think people have taken.

notice, it feels like that to me. The people have taken notice of Mark Williams more so than other guys. Did you see that tip in the offensive board that he had where he grabbed the ball mid-air and kind of just like changed the angle of his hand, mid-air

to get the ball back? Like that hand-eye coordination that he has is sensational, Mark Williams. I don't know. I just love watching him do little things like that. I didn't think it was a bad comp for you to talk about Robert Williams a little bit

when you're referencing him. Robert Williams a little bit more explosive. Yeah, but in terms of like the things he can bring to the time, because he's got really good hands. Yes, great hands. Yeah, he can pass. Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. He has great hands. Yeah, he's not a big oath. No. Right?

And catch those tough passes. You can catch the ball high without bringing it down. Yeah. Still finish. He's smart defensively. He hustles. He tries hard. He makes the right plays. He's going to be the league 10 plus years pending good health and could turn out to be more than people expect, too, because I think he's got a potential. He's a good mid-range shooter.

He's hit like five of seven mid-range jumpers this year. He's a good free throw shooter. I think there's some untapped potential for Mark Williams to become a guy hitting spot-up threes. And that could be the game changer skill for him. That makes him like a Brooke Lopez on offense and a time lord on offense, which is a pretty valuable player. Kevin is always a pleasure. It's going to be fun watching this last week and a half of the NBA season. Thank you to our executive producer, Jesse Lopez, as always.

Kev, I'll talk to you on Friday. Have a good one.