The Mismatch - Young Thunder Defy History, Haliburton’s Injury, Finals Fallout, and Can KD Lead the Rockets to the Finals?

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

Verno and Jacoby congratulate the Oklahoma City Thunder on winning Game 7 and defeating the Indiana Pacers, as the guys discuss the sour experience of watching the game after Tyrese Haliburton went down with his injury, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s Game 7 performance, lessons learned from these Finals, and what to expect for OKC’s future. They also give kudos to the Pacers for their resilience throughout the playoffs, Rick Carlisle’s influence, expectations for the Pacers next season without Haliburton, and how his injury affects the rest of the Eastern Conference. Next, the guys debate whether Kevin Durant can be the difference maker that Houston is looking for, and if the Suns will trade Jalen Green. (0:00) Welcome to The Mismatch!(0:18) The Thunder Are The 2025 Champs!(0:54) The 2025 Thunder Become 2nd Youngest Champions Ever(4:50) Reaction to Tyrese Haliburton's Injury(13:19) SGA's Game 7 Performance(18:34) Is This The Start of The Thunder Dynasty?(31:00) Rick Carlisle's Masterclass in Playoff Coaching(35:15) Who Are The Eastern Conference Contenders?(42:20) Reaction to the Thunder's "Celebration"(49:45) Rockets Trade for Kevin Durant(1:09:10) Jacoby's Trip to The Original Nathan's Hot Dogs(1:10;55) Mavs Sign Daniel Gafford to Extension(1:11:55) NBA Draft Preview Leave us a message on our Mismatch Voicemail line! [phone]  Visit creditkarma.com or download the app today. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Chris Vernon and David JacobyProducers: Jessie Lopez and Tucker TashjianSocial: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the mismatch. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me to see us every week from the ranger.com. It's Dave Jacoby. Jacobi. Verno, no team this young has ever won the NBA championship. You were so sure that there was no chance the Oklahoma City fetuses could win this championship. You said that like two months ago before the playoffs started.

And then you watching them last night, which feels like three weeks ago, try try and fail to open champagne bottles explain yourself okay first of all the 1977 blazers were younger that's that's that's that's that's that's that's the defense that's all you got I made the colossal error in judgment in basing my opinions on the entire history of the NBA And I would say that over and over again, when I have used this tactic and based my opinions on the entire history of the NBA, 80 year history, it's worked out incredibly well for me. And I must admit, in the year of our Lord, 2025, it worked out miserably for me. The Oklahoma City Thunder are, in fact, the NBA champions.

I cannot explain. I need to apologize to the Thunder. They were able to do it despite an age that teams just do not win, right? Like, as we mentioned, the 1977 Blazers are the only team that was this young that was able to pull this off. It was a completely different league in sport back then. Different league. Different league. Yeah, yeah.

Right. And interestingly enough, as it unfolded last night. I don't know what your viewing experience was like. I mean, we were texting during it, but that was so sad to me because I was so excited for that game. We recorded Thursday night after the Pacers and the Thunder. And from that moment on, I could not wait until Sunday.

night. This episode is presented by Intuit Credit Karma. Navigate the world of credit cards with credit karma's tailored recommendations. It's suitable for anyone interested in taking control of their financial journey with cutting edge technology. Start at credit karma.com to find cards that fit your financial lifestyle. Credit karma, finding the right card for you. There was a, when it was about to tip off on Sunday night, I thought to myself, I had this moment where a year ago, when the NBA finals were coming to its close, and Jesse, our producer, can attest, by the time that ended and the Celtics won it, we were so relieved that the season was over.

It, that, those playoffs were, it just drug on and on and it wasn't competitive. There were so much non-competitive basketball, and it just became, it becomes a part of your life. When you're doing our job, every night, my night is planned around whatever games are going on that night. And so when that goes on for two months, and 80% of the time, I'm disappointed that I had to watch whatever I watched that night. By the time last season was over, we were just ready for it to be over. Completely different experiences. It was, if this could have gone on all summer, I would have watched it. And not just this series, all of them.

I loved these NBA playoffs. And so there was a bit of melancholy before it was about to tip off where I was like, damn, man, this is the last one. Like this has been super fun and I'm so excited for this. The showdown, this has been an amazing NBA finals. I have no idea what's going to happen. And then it starts. The first five minutes, Halliburton, bang, bang, bang, hit three threes.

And I'm like, oh, this is going to be lit. And when that injury happened, it just, it destroyed the viewing experience. It destroyed all of my feelings. It was so hard. It's so hard to describe. I was so excited to watch that game. And then it was, I think, honestly, because of the visual of him laying on the ground, pounding his fist on the ground, crying, and you can see him say, I did it.

And you knew, we all knew what had happened. We all knew it. knew what it happened. And we've watched the playoffs. What comes to mind is the playing game against the Warriors where Jha hurts his ankle. It looks like he can't even put weight on it. Next thing you know, it has a good fourth quarter.

Or Jalen Brunson can't put weight on his ankle, and he literally can't stand. Comes back in the game, dominates. But we've watched enough, and we've seen it with Tatum and Dane, and now Halliburton, that we all knew immediately what it was and how impactful it was and that he wasn't coming back. And I think one thing that you mentioned,

which is really my viewing experience was, is just for funsies, I wanted the Pacers to win, because it's like a better story. And, you know, you've been doing this whole fetus bit from past couple months, and I love you and I want you to have your take play.

But one thing I've been saying for the past couple months, even before the playoff started is Halliburton is a very like up and down, heads or tails, has it or doesn't have it kind of playoff performer. And, man, he had it. Like, he hit two threes, two for two from three, deep threes. Like he wasn't, they weren't even contested because he's, like, it's 30 feet away from the basket.

And then the one he missed, they got the offensive rebound and he shot it from the same spot and hit it. And he was smiling, laughing, bouncing. There's so much joy. Well, and that's the thing. And I want to say, because I did get some response like, oh, you and Jacoby were saying he didn't look hurt. Bro, he didn't. He didn't. What is anybody watching?

Did you watch Game Six? That's what made it all the more devastating. We watch game six. You can watch the highlight of him making the sideline steal and flipping it to Seacum. And Lord knows I've watched it 100,000 times. I mean, you can watch that game back. And you tell me if I told you, if I told you that he's not hurt or, and you watch that game, if you watch the game, you would have never gone.

That's an injured guy trying to play. through injury. We watched Aaron Gordon play through injury in game seven. We saw O'GN and Obie try to go out and play. For what it's worth, in game six and the beginning of game seven, Tyrese Halliburton looked like he was going to be okay. And now we know, obviously he wasn't, obviously whatever he was doing to get him by, numbed that for him to be able to look the way he did. And that made it all the more devastating when you saw the thing pop because it was like, what? I thought he was okay. It's one thing that I want to be very clear about is this is very different than the Kevin Durant Achilles tear in the finals.

Because it's like, oh, calf injury gets good enough to play and then plays and then there goes the Achilles in the finals. I understand how you can pretend that that's apples to apples. But I was working with Jaylin at the time. and he saw Durant's workout before that game in Toronto. And he told me, and he told microphones, so I'm not like sharing inside stories. He was like, he doesn't look right. He shouldn't play.

And remember, Durant missed time. A month. A month. Halliburton was available for every minute of game one, two, three, four, five, and six. Every minute. There wasn't a single minute where he was off in the locker room or that he was not available to be subbed in the game.

He's obviously limited minutes-wise in five and six. but of course he's going to play. Imagine if the medical staff said, Tyrese, I don't know what, I'm not a doctor, we did some scans, we did some swabs, we did DNA tests or whatever,

whatever they do, we scan swab, pro, whatever they do. And it looks like you could possibly injure this worse and it could go bad for you. You can't play. What would his reaction be?

Right. I'm putting the uniform on and I'm playing tonight. Yeah, he was going to miss. Game 7 of the NBA finals. It's game. chance. That's right.

No chance. There's no chance he's not playing. There's nobody to blame in this deal. And it was just, it was awful. And yeah, they were up at half time. But even then I was thinking to myself, man, this is going to be like there's going to be a recalibration that takes place at half time. Yeah.

Of how to deal with the Tyrese Halliburton less, how we're going to deal with this situation. and I mean, we talked about this at the very beginning of the series, and we'll never know if Hallibur would have played, if it would have been any different. Maybe it wouldn't have been. Maybe that defense was just going to be undeniable. But we talked about points off turnovers, and it was eight turnovers for 18 points in the third quarter alone.

And that was going to be the trick. How many points are they going to be able to get off of, how many times are the pace is going to turn it over, and how many times is Oklahoma City going to be able to convert off of those? Because in the heads up stuff, when you look even at the end of the series, the field goal percentage, the three point percentage, the rebounding, the free throws. Like, you've got a lot of even stuff. And that was a deciding factor for a team that won 68 games throughout the season,

a deciding factor for a team that went 16 and 7 in the playoffs, and a deciding factor when it mattered most at the very end of the season. You can't take anything away. Look, the Thunder had nothing to do with that kid getting injured. And so there's nothing. You can't take away from anything they did. They've got to play the game, too, the rest of the way. And that was so deflating.

Like the whole arena was just silent. It was a 10-minute delay. Everybody knew not only how awful this was for the game that we're watching that night, but also, you know, much like the Tatum thing, the potential impact of what this is going to mean going forward for him, for that organization, for that fan base. I mean, it was just all so terrible. It's terrible.

Imagine being like a Thunder fan and you're there. It's game seven. You've been thinking about it all day long. And, you know, you bring your best friend or your family to the game and you're cheering. You're standing the whole time and you're chanting. And the energy is so high and the game is so tight and everything's so good. Like, I wouldn't know what to do if I saw that. Like, you can't cheer with this.

same enthusiasm. It's hard to even like celebrate, not the win, but even like celebrate baskets the same way. And then and then your team goes down. It's just like a weird vibe that everybody in the arena felt, but I feel like everybody across the country watching felt. It was really weird to watch it happen. And one of the things that really stuck with me the most is he was so hot. Yeah. Right before he got injured. And he was like, there was, when he hit the third three, step and it looked like, oh, we're getting a Halliburton game. After the third three, there was a timeout, and they did the replay going to commercial of just his face when he was running back.

He's got an ear-to-ear, smile. He's making eye contact with his teammates. He's jumping up and down off his right calf that's strained. Like, I was just like, oh, my God, he's on cloud nine right now. Like, he's like in the zone after five minutes of action. And then that happens. It's just so deflating, but, like, we've spent. a lot of time talking about the Halliburton injury,

but you know, you cannot take anything away from the Thunder. We'll spend a lot of time celebrating the Thunder. But in the second half, the team that is known for pace, moving the ball, five, four passes per possession, the only time they made runs were like, individual get me a bucket T.J. McConnell, individual get me a bucket, math. Like, it really displayed just how important Halliburton's sort of unselfishness

and just sort of like being the hub of the, wheel is to that offense. Because the only way they were successful were sort of these individual athletic achievements from Mathron and McConnell, which is, I mean, obviously just not enough. Yeah. And on the flip side, Gildes Alexander was absolutely unbelievable. I mean, in that first half, no, no, no, no, no, the assist. It was, it was that way, this is what I talk about all the time.

You get to do it to me once. And the way he handled the pressure in game six was absolutely atrocious. and it led to him having eight turnovers and their team being a mess. And you saw it. It was, like I said, great players, you get to do it once, right? You get to, you're going to try that. And so he had the counter. Oh, look, Jacoby, that assist number could have been even higher.

I mean, he generated wide open-offed three. So many open trees. They can't make them. They can't, man. I swear to God, they didn't make threes this whole damn series. I mean, I think that's something that will be addressed in this opposite. we'll get to the offseason in a second. There was a stretch of the game

which perfectly demonstrated the adjustment from six to seven. He is on the right baseline and gets doubled off a Chet. And now Chet, and instead of taking a contested shot, he hits a Chet and Chet hits a three, something that he wasn't doing all finals, right?

And then the next possession, he makes a great spin move, gets into the lane, what happens? The paces all collapse on him and he kicks it out to J. Dub. and J. Dubb, who didn't have a great game in the first half, hits the three.

And it was just like, SGA making the right reads against the Pacer's defense and the Thunder actually knocking down their open shots. It's just like, well, if that's what's going to happen, you don't have a shot. And you could point to that and say, with Halliburton, no Halliburton, if they make those kind of plays,

they clearly looked at the film and made the adjustments from 6 to 7. They're going to win the championship. Who knows what would have happened, but I don't want to put an asterisk on this. It's just, but it's just an absolute. absolute buzz kill. We are going to remember that game and that series for being a great series that ended with a colossal buzzkill.

I think if you are not a fan of the Thunder or the Pacers, you're just a basketball fan. Like, I treated this like Super Bowl Sunday because I get so nervous about big games late at night that I have to fill my day with stuff. Like I went to LEO with my kids. I had to like fill the day because I can't just sit around and watch pregame and think about it all the time. So it was just like a huge. She was like a Super Bowl Sunday for me, basically.

It felt like a Super Bowl Sunday. I can only say that if, and I know Gildes Alexander is more important to what they do than if Tyrese, than what Tyres Halberton does, but it would have been the same exact feeling. I'm being dead honest about this. It would have been the same exact feeling if Gildjitz Alexander would have had an injury in the first quarter that kept him out for the rest of the game. It would have been, no, no. Just no.

that we want to see this heads up, play out a game seven, see how both of these teams react, and to not get one of them to be fully stocked when it matters the absolute most when we're down to one game and we have invested nine straight months into watching this product every night was so depressing.

And so many series are, oh yeah, but we were missing such and such. Even your stupid grisies like, oh, Jaylon and Wells is there. Maybe it's different. Like every, so many series are defined by who wasn't available,

especially to like that fan base. But we made it all the way to the end. And these are the two healthiest teams. I mean, obviously the Pacers are missing some guys that don't get talked about too much. But this is the two healthiest teams, healthy throughout the entire series outside of Halliburton being compromised, I'll call it.

And to have this happen, to have it sort of the water get diluted this way at the biggest moment was so deflating. But, you know, I think we need to spend more time celebrating the Thunder because one thing I loved about this game was Chet Holmgren who's been real like he hasn't played great let's be honest

offensively but I thought he shows these flashes of who he's going to be and I thought in a game 7 his defensive presence was absolutely gigantic for the Thunder I mean I've told you when this guy fills out it's going to be scary it is going to be scary because you got to remember he is not

even played two NBA basketball seasons yet. No. He hasn't played two NBA basketball seasons yet. I miss 50 games this year. Last year was his first. So, I mean, wait till he gets more games, more reps. And some people, I will say, like, that guy's got to be a string bean forever. I doubt that.

I bet he's going to be able to put weight on that frame. And as he starts to figure out more stuff and he grows into his body, completely and becomes a man completely. Oh, boy. I mean, just experience. Just playing NBA basketball. He's going to become a better three-point shooter. And defensively, he's going to understand angles

and what offenses are trying to do and get better reads and anticipate actions. Like, I think his defensive potential is really interesting for a team that has got such a great defense. Because I don't think he's fully formed defensively yet. And we saw a glimpse of last night of just how dominant he can be. Okay, so there's two ways of things. thinking about this, right, going forward.

You have one, which is, oh, this is scary hours. Obviously, they have all of these draft picks, assets, everything in order to be able to get better over time. And they just achieved what no other team of that age range has been able to achieve. And this is the worst they're going to be. They're only going to get better from this, right? That is a thought process. Oh, yeah. The other is this is not.

not some of the dominant ones that we have seen in the past, where it's like, they went seven games against the Denver Nuggets, and they went seven games against the Indiana Pacers. They weren't head and shoulders. But you have seen other teams in NBA history that when they got to this point, they just mowed people down. It just felt like they could never lose. Yeah.

Yeah, they mowed people down. And it's like, oh, but, I mean, they are so much further along. And the reason I'm asking this is because there is a set which do you agree with more? The sentiment because what's going to happen inevitably is what always happens in the NBA, which our teams are going to make moves and they are going to build teams with the team they have to get past in mind. I would submit to you that that very well may be a fool's errand. I'm going to just tell you the lesson I think I get from this. So two years ago, Denver wins the title, right?

Dynasty. Calvin Booth. No, but they win three or four. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But they win the title. And then you have Minnesota that comes along the next year. And you know they're thinking, if they make the Rudy Gobert acquisition, this works out perfectly. You did face them and you did beat them. But then you played against Dallas.

And you weren't necessarily equipped to deal with what Dallas brought to the table. What you brought to the table was not an advantage against Dallas in the way that it created an advantage against the team that you thought you were going to have to get past. That's what you think. When the champion comes back. This happened to the Knicks this year, Vernon. Literally this year. Right? This is what happened with the Knicks.

The exact same way, too, which is the team we're going to have to beat. We're built to beat the Celtics. And he did. And now we don't have enough defenders to stay in front of the Pacers. So I almost think the lesson is don't look at it and go, how can we beat the Pacers? How can we deal with the Thunder? Because I think the lesson of both of those teams is to be able to build the team that is malleable against Annie. That when you face, when you are playing against, when you're looking and you're going, this is the team we have in mind.

We know this is going to be the class of our conference, and that's who we're going to have to beat. Sometimes, and in fact it's happened in the last two different post seasons. That was true. And you very well may have lost to them if you didn't make those moves. But there's always going to be somebody else. And maybe they bring something different to the party that you're not as well equipped to deal with. And so the lesson is to me that like the thunder, it didn't matter. They played Yokic and they played the big team in Minnesota.

And then they played the super fast team in the Pacers. That's the thing that I will give Oklahoma City the most amount of credit for is they faced all manner of different things, right? That different types of advantages that another team could have against them and dealt with all of them. And you saw Indiana kind of the same way. They brought something completely different to the table, which is a depth. that nobody matched. Like even Oklahoma City, when you would say they are the beacon of depth, right? When it came down to a Jacoby, we got to the NBA finals, they played six guys 20 minutes or more.

Six. Oh, yeah. They played six guys. I say Joe's gone. Kenridge Williams gone. They played eight. And when it came down, when it came down to the very end, the Pacers played eight guys, 20 minutes or more. So theirs was sustainable, right?

Like their depth that they, and the way they play and this style, they bring something weird to the table that really nobody else plays like them in the NBA. And so they were rather unique. I just think that both of those teams, if there is a lesson for team building as all of these teams are about to go into their offseason, it's have a team that can deal with whatever is brought to the table, not what a specific group or one day. team can bring to the table. A couple things. Number one, easier said than done. Of course it is. I mean, come on.

It's like, it's like, have a team that can play all different styles and has a bunch of great players. Like, sure, that's the plan for everybody. I'm saying, but you can't, you, the lesson is you can't build with the favorite in mind. Fair. I think we started in something that I want to hit on, because we're not doing this pod right after the buzzer, which we did last

week with Monday and Thursdays. I've listened to some stuff and I've read some stuff. And the question that you asked me to start that, I find really interesting because my answer is I have no clue. Because it's almost like a debate class. I could make a case. If I was a lawyer, I could make

a great case. We've seen the draft assets that they have. We've seen this is the youngest team since the Blazers. J. Dub is going to get better and he's great already. Chet is going to get better and he's great already. Everybody on that team is still not at their prime outside of SGA, who I believe will get better.

And you can say to yourself with the way, even with the financial constrictions, the way with all the first round picks they have, they can navigate the next five, six years to be a true dynasty. You can make that case, right? Then the other side of me, because I start thinking that way,

and then I start thinking, they did go seven against the Nuggets in the second round. That could have broken differently. they were healthy the entire playoffs. They were healthy. The entire playoffs. There wasn't a game where it's like, oh, such and such isn't available.

Like he'd be like, Caruso's not available, game three against the wolves or whatever. They went seven in the NBA finals, and that game was sullied by an injury, whether they would have won or lost, who knows it's a hypothetical situation. So it's extremely difficult to win an NBA championship.

There's a reason that no one has repeated since KD and Steph were on the same team in their prime. healthy, right? Like, it's impossible. So much has to go your way to win one, that to win three and five years just seems like an impossibility. It just seems like it's just not mathematically

it doesn't seem possible. But I can't decide which side of the fence I'm on. I have no idea which way this could break. I know. I don't know. And also, I would just say in the past, whether it was the heatles, you knew that was going to be the team to beat.

The warriors, you knew that was going to be the team to beat. And look, Oklahoma City. With KD. With KD. Yeah. But I will say, and the other thing is, man, I covered the 2011, 2011, 2012, 2013. Like, I covered all of those playoff years many moons ago.

If you would have told me that that Thunder iteration would make one finals and that's it, I would never in a billion years have believed that. that never they made it young and they made it to the NBA finals and they did not make it back until this year that same franchise did not make it back until this year and in 2012 if you would have told me like that was the beginning of we're going to see them every single year in this spot i mean they had Kevin Durant James Hardin and Russell westro that felt like the scars year that was the scars year next year next year. He literally had three guys that ended up becoming league MVP's.

Right? League MVP's. And they never made it back. And so you do never know, right? You never know the way this stuff is going to play out. But I don't know. If you want to play the game, if you want to play the game, I'm just going to say, like, if you're going to force me into it, they will win another championship.

This court will win another championship. I believe that. I'm not going to say it's next year. But like, they got a nice three, four years. window here, they're going to get another one. There's no question. I will say this. There's no question. Since, you know, you would say like the beginning of

that Warriors run. There's a pre-KD. Warriors and a post-Kady Warriors in my mind. No, but that pre-Kady Warriors. When that first started... I think the Cavs, the Cavs, it was a Warriors' Cavs. We know who's going to be in the finals and it could go either way. So it wasn't like, it didn't feel like, how do I explain it? It didn't feel like

there was one team that everybody had to beat. It felt like there's a team in the east and a team in the west. And unless there's an upset, those teams are going to play together and then you can just flip the corn. But what I'm saying is those teams, this team is, and probably even

it probably even surpasses them because of the assets that they have going forward and the guy running the show. They are the best. If there is a team that is set up to win three of the next five.

Nobody has ever been set up like this, ever, ever. Because just by virtue of winning at the age that they wanted and the age of their stars, guys don't typically win until they're 26, 27, 28. Now, SGA is that age, but the other two, their fetuses. And they still won. I made the mistake of looking up the Thunder draft capital. and I'll go through this quickly. Oh, don't.

Don't. It's 25. Their pick, my have 15 and 24. 26, they have their pick. Philadelphia top four protected, Utah, top eight. They probably won't get them. They have their pick at 27. Denver top five protected.

Clippers swap. All right, listen to this. You're going to love this. This is ridiculous. You made fun of me for my basketball card buying the other day. Yeah. When we were doing the show. I'm going to show you.

I bought a box recently. And it just happens right behind me. What are you doing? No one cares. No, no, no. Hold on. I don't care. You get one, you get one autograph or memorabilia card.

No, I'm going to show you. This is all going to make sense. And it's going to deal with the conversation we're dealing with. So you get one autograph or memorabilia card in the box. And so you're just sifting through and you're like, you can't wait. Topich. Topich. It is.

Topich. Of course it's Topich. It is. I open this up. And it is Nicola Topic. And I'm like, NBA champion. This guy hasn't even played yet.

The only person to never play an NBA game that is an NBA champion. He's a champion. Hey, I hadn't thought about him since last year's draft. I was like, oh my God, they've got a frigate lottery pick that's coming off a torn ACL. They didn't play the game yet. You guys probably going to be unbelievable, by the way. So the glass half empty guy is always like, well, you've got all these great young players, and that's great, but you're going to have to pay them all at some point.

Are you? We got more guys just like them coming through. You know what I mean? Are we? Bro, they hit on the 55th pick in Aaron Wiggins. Come on. It is such a well-run franchise. And the player development and the coaching, Dr. Bubblegum,

I thought he was out-coached this series. I think Dr. Bubblegum was out-coach. But did you notice he made the adjustment? No bubble gum in Game 7. No, I told us he just had to make one adjustment. No bubble gum. And a couple of things. sort of move on to the bigger picture stuff is,

I thought Rick Carlisle really, really showed a master class in these finals. I felt like, I was thinking about him, he felt like, like Greg Maddox, like a jump ball pitcher, who's going to throw you a fastball and the change-up,

and then curve ball. And he's got seven pitches, split finger, slider, and you just have like, like, it's like, and you just don't know what's coming next.

and once you start looking for one pitch, you're going to get another one. And then I also felt like some teams like the Knicks were just like Mariana Rivera being like, we got one pitch, good luck hitting it. It's great, but good luck hitting it. And I thought that Carlisle, the adjustments from game to game were like a real,

real master class. And I just wanted to see, I just wish we could have seen this play out. I know. I just wish we could have seen this play out. It's a great point because I think the best, the best compliment we can give Rick Carlisle is do you think you could have replaced it with anyone

and have gotten those results? No. And I think one of the biggest compliments I can give the Pacers and Rick Carlis is I didn't think they would beat the Cavs, whooped them. I didn't think they'd beat the Knicks, who'd and I didn't think they had a chance against the thunder. No.

And who, and you know, and they went seven. No one said, we all said thunder and five, thunder and six. Because we talked on this pod about all the prep work we did before the finals. It just seemed like all the matchups, all the numbers.

You just couldn't like, I just couldn't wrap my head around the roadmap that gets the Pacers to the title that doesn't involve injuries. I could wrap my head around it. And kudos to this Pacers team because they played with joy. They played a great brand of basketball to watch as a fan. And they made all the proper adjustments. I thought they were a smarter team. And I just really felt like they were such like a democratic offense. and their defense was way better than I expected it to be.

And they caused real problems for SGA. And I also think, tell me what you feel about this. I also think that that team is going to be viewed as favorably as it could have ever been viewed while losing because of the injury. And don't forget the miraculous comebacks. No, no, no, but because of the way it ended. It's almost like Rocky. You know what I mean? Like, we all walked away loving Rocky.

Like, he lost. He lost. When the first one? Yes. He loses. To Apollo? Yes. Am I spoiling Rocky for you?

Yeah, it's a long time. He loses. Okay. But he gave it everything he had. He came up short, right? That's it. The pieces are rocky. So it's like.

This is one of the, I can't believe I just spoiled Rocky. Unbelievable. Sorry. There's so many of them. I've watched all of them. Yeah, he doesn't win. You win to Rocky 3. But you, but the point is, the reason I'm analogizing it is because he doesn't win, but he is beloved.

And it's like me who walked away from it barely remember that part. Yes. You know what I mean? And you are always going to remember this Pacer's team. And I almost feel like if they would have played it out heads up and gotten. they're asking, it wouldn't be viewed the same way. So in some ways, they are as lovable as they can possibly be because they gave us so many memories.

They were such a great story. They were such a great basketball team. And you pity them for having their opportunity ripped away from them. You know what I mean? I had dinner tonight, shout out to Chambo, with a guy from Indiana, the Pacers fan his whole life, right? he's our age. And he's like, I'm sitting there with my kids. And you just don't think about losing game seven.

You have to think about losing next season too. And Celtics fans must feel the same way. Where it's like not just like, because you wake up in the morning, you're like, we could be champions, champions tonight. Tonight we could be champions. And then you're like, because when the Knicks got injured last year, everyone was hurt. But everyone's coming back for training camp.

Remember Jalen had a hand. OG had the leg and outside of Mitch, everybody came back and was ready. But like, if you're a self-expansor a patience fan, you're sitting there being like, not only did we lose in the playoffs, we lost next year.

By the way, one that you left out, which started all of the off-season talk infinitely early, then yes. Which wildly enough, one of my buddies texts me tonight, and he was like, hey, I was listening to your show,

and you didn't mention this, but I thought this was super weird. He's like, you're talking about the three guys that have torn their Achilles, Lillard, and then Tatum and Halburn. He's like,

they all wear number zero. Yeah, I saw that line. And I was like, oh, God. And they all did it. That is,

I was like, what are they all did it sort of like with like a launch step? I don't know what to call it. Put your foot back to take off like you're in the starting blocks for a race. Right. It was just, it was like a,

they're very similar Achilles tears. and they all wear number zero. And I was literally thinking I was going up to escalators. I was going to escalators to the subway today. And I was like, and I can't believe I'm saying this. And Jesse, please delete this forever.

I think the Sixers have a chance. I'm like, who else? You know, like who else? Like, Knicks. Orlando's. The Magic Sixers? Orlando. On paper, look like a team.

that can contend in the Eastern Conference. Orlando trading for Desmond Bain is a different trade than it was a week ago. Yes. With this happening. Yeah, the price might be higher, actually. The price might be higher. Because you're looking up and down that Eastern Conference and you're going, okay. And look, also, you might recalibrate if you're Cleveland.

If you're Cleveland, you might have said, you know what, man, we got to make some big changes. We got to do something. Maybe you don't now. They didn't just lose. They got their asses kick. Understood. And you're thinking to yourself, we can't do this for a third straight year.

Right. And expect a different result. But now maybe we can. But now maybe we can. No, it recalibrates how you look about anything in the Eastern Conference. And certainly there are some of those teams that have got to go. Like if you are thinking like, hey, if you're Miami, you're going, we can put something together.

Yeah, if you're Atlanta, we can put something together. All the sort of like play, even the, I can't believe what I'm saying. Even the bulls, you know what I mean? You're saying to yourself like, there's no reason we can't be top six in this conference. If we get a couple of players. On the flip side, I'm not ruling out the Celtics bucks and even the Pacers from, I don't think they're going to drop off the earth. But you're, you're dead right about the whole Halliburton thing and your buddy saying that it's, it, the, the recalibration. The Achilles thing is so much different than anything else.

Because there's the expectation of, oh, that sucks. It ruined this season. But when you have an injury that ruins next season as well, I mean, that is just. And the other thing is I know that there are the circumstances of which guys have come back and regained form. Kevin Durant being the latest, right? But it still took a long time for him to even say he felt like himself. And then you go through those years.

years in Brooklyn, you know, that last year to Golden State and then those years in Brooklyn, there ain't a lot of games played in those four years, brother. There's not a lot of games. So I was actually close to this with an Achilles injury. I'm working at Fox Sports and I'm doing a morning show, the Carton Show, with Craig Carton, right? And he's a huge Jets fan. That's like his thing for life. He's been a big, big Jets guy.

They get Aaron Rogers. Yeah. Right? And you guys, you'll remember this now. If you're not like follow football close or even like the Jets close, but I was following the Jets very closely because I'm on that show. We talk a lot of Jets. And he had a calf strain.

And then we all know what happened on September 11th. First game in a Jets uniform, Achilles goes. But there were all these reports. He's going to get back later in the season. He got this special surgery. And there's all these reports all year. Like he's rushing back. And he's out of a boot.

He's not walking with a boot. He might be, you know, week. Week 14, week 13, and the Jets season ended up falling apart. But there was this idea that he could rush back and play. But he got injured week one. And if they were in play out contention, maybe he could play like week 15 or 16, right? So it is possible. But I don't think that's a prudent way to approach an NBA season just based on the

amount of games, the wear and tear, and just the stress on the body is just such a different ask to have someone come back and be like, well, maybe the, they'll come back, you know, after the All-Star break and the recovery is different now, the surgery is different now, there's made advancements, but just like the ask of an NBA athlete to win a championship through the playoffs, I just don't think you can do it if a year away from an Achilles surgery. I don't think you can do it. And I think you can be hopeful about somebody like Halliburton simply because his game

is not based on fast-twitch athleticism. You know what I mean? This is a below-the-rimed basketball player who does what he does, right? He's never been an explosive player. The explosive guys that tear their Achilles and like lose that as something to fall back on, that one's even, I think, much worse.

Yeah, he's not Derek Rose. His game, which I love, it's fun to watch, is anticipation, guile, fooling the defense, and deep shooting. And I will say, so Brandon Clark, who I cover in Memphis, went through it, and he was a hundred percent fast Twitch guy. And I thought to myself, oh, God, what is he going to be? If you take that away from this above the rim, you know, spike on you, kind of second leap or whatever. And he came back and it was like, oh, he doesn't get up like he used to get up, you know, in the same way. And then he, but about six months later, he started to. And it was like, oh.

And so not only do you have to come back, then you have to trust it, then you have to build back up. And so it's honestly not going to be, it's not going to be a year. It's longer than a year for you to be able to get back on the court, get your win back, trust it and then start to build up to a portion of, and maybe a high percentage of the athleticism you once had. Let's celebrate the Thunderbar. Oh, shut off. They deserve more flowers.

They haven't gotten enough. They can't even celebrate themselves. I found that was very strange. The first time I ever opened a champagne bottle, I did not need, like, instructions. Did you like, did you like check calling it Michelobb? Jay, Doug was like, I just had my first drink. Okay, so what?

Ethan Straff wrote this article about how in 23 on his substack that in 2020 there was this article that came out about how the youth are drinking less than ever way less it's true my nine-year-olds have not had a sip different generation

good it did make me wonder I had not thought about it through that prism that is it just not a thing in the same way that... I think... I think that the

youth drinks way less. That is a fact but I also think that I think athletes are just different. Like Alice Crusoe, not just Jay Dubb

having... Alex Crusoe, in one of the videos he was like, I haven't had a drink since February. I'm like, I guess if you're an NBA athlete,

that makes sense. I got it. I understand and I understand that they're... Look, there's a lot of athletes that drink.

A lot of more... A lot more do weed and gummies. But look, there's a lot of athletes that drink still. here's my thing, Jacoby. This is why it was surprising to me, okay?

Not that these guys would be so locked in and that they just don't, right? Like they don't drink, right? Especially during the season, right? Totally understandable. What was weird to me was the Jalen Williams from Arkansas who like took the sip of the beer and he had never tried it before and was like,

and Chad and, and, J-dub and all these guys and not knowing how to pop a shit, and they all went to college. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Did they not drink in college? I guess they didn't. I just think athletics are just more important to athletes now,

especially people in college that are going through the NBA draft process, just take it much more seriously now. I don't think that must be the case. But I don't think that's true of other young players on other teams. Because so I'm wondering, do you think Sam Presti asks them, is this his money ball is just finding a bunch of sober squares? Yes. Is this the new money ball in the NBA where you just find guys? Have you ever had a drink?

Nope. Draft him. But there's also guys where it's like you're 24 years old. You make $10 million a year. Of course you're at the nightclub. Like, what's the point of being 24 years old, in great shape, handsome, and rich? Like, the whole point is to go to the nightclub. That's what you do.

That's why you play basketball. But maybe that's just me. I was so confused. Maybe that's why I'm not in the thunder. That's probably why I'm not in the thunder. It's probably when I'll be back. I was just confused. And maybe it is a state of the times.

Maybe that is true. I found it interesting that Caruso said, I haven't had a drink since February. I just think they take it that seriously, man. they're trying to win a championship. By the way, shout out to Caruso for saying, I finally got a real ring. Oh, please. That was correct.

He didn't say that. Yes, he did. That's NBA Centel. He did not say that. He did say that. The bubble ring is a real ring. It was a response to everybody that says, you got a fake ring. That's ridiculous.

Shout out to Crusoe for getting a dunk. I got a real one now. He got a dunk in Game 7. He said, now I got a real one. That's what he said. Oh, please. Yeah. Well, I think the Thunder, honestly,

like, if you're a Thunder fan, you must feel so good right now. Everyone's going to get better. And I mean, and you got, what, at least 20 new white t-shirts if you went to the games. They won 21 games. They lost 21 games. Well, they got 16.

7 in the playoffs. Yeah, 14 in the regular season. Yeah, 21 games. They lost 21 games. Imagine being a fan of a team. It was the championship. And you only 21 nights only were you like, man. We lost. It's crazy.

It's a great season. The MVP, the conference finals MVP and the finals MVP all went to one. I mean, there was no debate on who made that happen and who the best player on that team was, right? This was not any kind of a split decision. Whereas that finals MVP, it would have been hilarious that the Pacers won it because, I mean, you had votes all over the place. maybe depending on who had the biggest game seven. If Halliburton would have went off, if McConnell would have gone off,

if it was Siakum, like, who knows? I think, like, history will go down, but I think I didn't think SGA played that well, to be honest with you. I thought he did a good job reading the defense and getting his teammates shots. For the attention he gets. I mean, if he had a bunch of guys on his team that could shoot at a high clip, they would have to treat it differently.

But I thought at the end of the game, he was like, he was really trying to get like a high. moment. You know what I mean? Like taking these deep threes early in the clock. It was just kind of like, I think he kind of seemed like he wanted to sort of like put a cap on the championship.

And there's obviously, and look, there's a lot of lessons too from just watching them. I mean, foul every play, flop, push off to create space. What is your problem?

They just won the championship. Get away with as much as you find. What are you doing? You're so entrenched in your anti-thunder-tank. Because you're so entrenched. You can't even see the forest through the trees. Because for 48 minutes, you haven't gotten their balls out of your mouth, and I can't take it anymore. They push off.

They grabbed you. They don't even like them. You don't even like watching them. They, you know what? You don't like them so much that you became a damn Halliburton fan, which is ridiculous for a Nix fan to start rooting for Tyrese Halliburton. But you did it. You did it. Why?

Because you don't like watching Louis. dork flop around and clip people out of the air. And you don't like watching SGA forearm shiver someone to create four feet so he can hit a 16 footer. You don't like it either. So enough already. I love it. I've had enough.

I love it. I love the thunder. No, you don't. I'm wearing a t-shirt underneath this. Blue. It's a thunder up. They've got tons of picks.

They're the greatest team ever and no one is ever going to win again, I'm sure. Or winning a championship is super hard. everything broke right for them this season and they'll never do it again. I don't know. I don't know. From your mouth to God's ears. I have no idea. This has been a catastrophe for me.

It really has. Every time when Lou Dort flew on the ground after running into Ben Matherin, I almost broke my TV. I couldn't take it anymore. Somewhere Ben Matherin is in Game 7 of the NBA finals. He's like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to throw it off the basket to myself. You remember that play? I was just like, where are we in this offense right now?

Let's move to a couple other things. I had the weird, I want to hear your experience. I had the strangest experience yesterday. So you guys have Costco, right? Yeah, my wife went to Costco today. Perfect. Do you know how this slice is a bacon room fridge right now? Three pigs worth of bacon.

It's so funny. We got 12 mangoes. Who needs 12 mangoes? They go bad. I swear to you. Yeah. I was like, you know what? It's hot out.

Maybe I'll grill something. I said, I'm going to run around the corner. I'm there with the wife of kids. I said, I'm going to run out of the corner. I said, I'm going to grab us some hot dogs, right? And I'll come back and I'm empty-handed. And she's like, didn't you just say you were going to get hot dogs? And I said, darling, I had two choices.

I could either get 28 or 48 hot dogs. dog. I was like, we don't need, I don't need 48 hot dogs. Four of us. And so what we did was we go up and, you know, it's, I don't know, maybe inflation, or maybe is it the same there as it is here? It is a $1.50 for a hot dog and a soda. That's what it costs at the, at Costco, right?

They have the restaurant, the little thing up at the front. They famously have a strategy. in which they underpriced those items just to sort of get you in the door. Yeah, well, it works. Because, I mean, you can feed a family of four for six bucks. So a hot dog and a soda. So me and the kids go get a hot dog and a soda, right?

And so I'm walking over and this guy starts talking to me about the Grizzlies or whatnot, whatever. And I'm putting mustard on a hot dog. And then another guy who said there. Did he give you some draft? Did he give you some draft? I wish he did. He did not.

And then another guy. that's sitting there. But it's Costco, he would have given you 16. Yeah. This is, this one, you know, look, I love Memphis. This is why. So I'm there. This guy starts talking to me, he's talking to me about the groceries and whatnot.

And then as I'm putting mustard on my hot dog, this guy that's sitting in the food court, as it were, he's like, hey, Verno. I don't know this guy. I look around. Yeah. And he's like, Kevin Durant just got traded. And I was like, what the hell? I'm literally like trying to put mustard on this hot dog. And I go and I reach my phone and I got like four missed text.

You know, because of course everybody's always sending me a screenshot of what Shams has put up and whatever. And I was like, no way, man. So now I'm just talking to two strangers in Costco about Kevin Durant getting traded. And he's like, hey, and Dylan Brooks is going to be going to the. And I was like, what? No way. It was such a crazy experience. I'm in a Costco and this guy just runs up on me and tells me and breaks the news to me.

the Kevin Durant has been traded. And so I didn't really have the opportunity to sit and understand it fully until I got back home. But first time I've ever had a guy, look, as you know, you listen to the show, I've had a guy tell me who's going to be the guy in the draft at a target. And I've had a guy break the Kevin Durant trade to me. You just need to get out more. I just need to get out more. Every time I get out more, I learn about the NBA.

I know. I spent my whole day obsessing about this. What's the secret? What's the secrets of those takes? And it's inside of NBA information. Just leaves the house. I don't know. Wait till I go to Walgreens. But you saw Kevin Durant's how he found out, which I think he knew before. But obviously, most people have seen the video by now. But he's at Fanatics Fest.

And him and Taylor Rooks are just chatting. And the audience starts going crazy. And then I just wish he had a. better response. I mean, Kevin Durant's not always the best quote in the world or the, the bubbliest most animated personality. He's not exactly Anthony Edwards, but he said, we going to see. We going see. It's like, you just found out where you got traded, my guy. Like, give me something. I texted you this and I was interested that you kind of, I think, tepidly agree. I, and I listen to everybody talk about all of this. And I, I am just higher on

Jalen Green than people are. Like, I have not given up on him becoming something very special. And I think he can. I think it's, you know, too much too soon. He was the leading scorer on a team that just was the two seed. I understand his efficiency has to get better. But, I mean, when you talk about athleticism and talent and, like, those are the things that you got to be able to, you got to, those are prerequisites.

And then you got to put it together. And I just think that it's very possible we look up. And he's one of the best five to ten scorers in the NBA. I mean, he is only, I mean, he is, he is still a puppy when it comes to NBA basketball. Well, I got it. His game seven stunk, his playoffs were up and down. Here's what it is. It's against the Warriors.

I think the total Jailing Green experience, I think I had the games right, can be summed up in game one and game two against the Warriors. For game one, he absolutely stunk. Stunk. Couldn't make a basket, so inefficient. you're just like, they're never going to beat the Warriors if this is how he is going to play. And then game two, you're like, future superstar.

You know what I mean? It's just not consistent and it's not efficient and you can't rely on it. But I bet on that talent though, man. He's number two pick. Number two pick of the draft. I mean, Kevin Durant's 37 years old and needs another contract.

So I don't know. I mean, look, I think he's going to be fantastic. for Houston. And I also think Houston has the wherewithal, right? They've got Jabari. They've got Amman. It's a bet on the other guys on their team. Can we Mortarie? They still got a boatload of stuff,

right? And so it's perfect. And I will say, you could probably go back. You called this. I called this. Probably five months ago. I need Jesse and Tucker to send you the video or the audio. I look for it. I couldn't find it. But because I was watching, I remember it was after one of my rec league games on Wednesday

night. We go to the bar after the game and drink and either commiserate or celebrate, talk about the game, whatever. And I was looking up at the screen at the Rockets playing, a regular season game. And it was just like, we've all watched the Rockets. They're just kind of missing a him.

They're missing a creator, ball handler, or a guy that can get you a bug at the end of the shot clock. That's just what they're missing. And sometimes it's Jalen Green, but most of the time it's not. And I was thinking to myself, Durant's not going to be on the Suns next year. This young team has a great defense.

They're just missing like that guy. And I said myself, wait a second, they've got so many young players that they could easily put together a good package that's mutually beneficial for both the Sons and the Rockets and we had a show the next day Thursday

so I was like I just said it I was like it just came to me I was just like Kevin Durant's gonna be on the Rockets it just makes sense I also think because because Shengun took such a huge step forward that this is way better for the Rockets

in the sense of a guy that can stand out there and knock down shots because they have guys down low. Jalen Green is a guy that needs to be able to get to the basket. Right? He's a guy that you look up. He doesn't need a crown. He's best if you could space it out.

If you could space it again, I like the asset that is Jalen Green. Okay. I like the asset. I don't know. He can't be the second best player in a championship team. I don't like it with the Sons. Of course not. Booker. It's ridiculous. And this whole Green Brooks.

They all, they have Beal, they all play the same position, their entire roster. It doesn't make any sense to me. So look, the sons keep on doing things that don't make sense.

But I will say, if you are moving Kevin Durant, I thought they got very good return. I thought they got very good return. I feel this is one of my concerns. I don't. The reason when you and I talked about Kevin Durant is a possible

Minnesota Timberwolf. or we talked about him going elsewhere. I don't know if having Kevin Durant as your best player right now is the best mode of operation. People could say, oh, well, Shinggoon's going to be their best. No,

he scores 30 points a game. That's pretty good. Kevin Durant's going to be the guy, right? Okay, then why didn't they win? The sons? I don't know. You think I have an answer for that? I don't know if a 37-year-old.

Kevin Durant, who, yes, played 75 games a year ago, but played 62 games this past year, and the track record over the course of the last five to six years. And I just feel like a lot of people have talked about it like they traded for a 32-year-old Kevin Durant. That's what I said. I think that's fine. That's what I'm saying.

Listen, I think people look at the rockets and they say, first-round exit couldn't get past the Warriors. That's fair. Went seven games with the Warriors, you know? And they clearly needed someone like this. And I think Kevin Durant, so here's my problem with the Rockets last year, is I'm watching Amend Thompson.

And God forbid, I say something negative about a men Thompson. God forbid. Oh, God forbid I say something a negative about a man Thompson. The guy can't shoot the basketball. No. Like, he's open from 16 feet. And there's no chance that ball's going in the hoop. So, like, yeah, the highlights look great.

The defense is awesome. but he cannot shoot the basketball. Same thing with Eason. He can't shoot the basketball. And they had green and Van Blee. So when you add Durant to that mix, I think it'll change the geometry of the floor where it's not such a glaring

sort of disadvantage to be playing like Adams and Eason and Thompson. There's like three guys that just cannot shoot. And I will also say this. This is being treated like it is not a, risk at all. It is a risk. They had the chemistry they had,

and you could say whatever you want about those players, but they had built that up. They were the two-see this past year. And that was their first go-through, you know, and maybe they didn't give up enough that it's going to hurt them. But Dylan Brooks is their best perimeter

defender outside of Thompson, right? I mean, Thompson and Easton, they don't lack for defenders. I understand, but I mean, you have Brooks, and then say whatever you want. Jalen Green was their leading score during the regular season. On a team that won a lot of games.

I think Kevin Graham was slide into that spot nicely. And I've been hung up on watching Jalen Green that month without Shengoon a year ago. I think he was Western Conference player of the month. Bro. He was devastating. A lot of those games. And I'm like, get these big lugs out of this. Get the big, get the big lugs out of the way from clogging up the paint.

Guess what? The suns don't have a center. So don't worry about it. I know. And watch what this guy can do. He is a bitch to stay in front of. He could go. I think I'm just higher on Jaila Green that people are.

Well, a couple things I want to say. The same way. He's also 15 years younger. The same way the Grizzlies were two wins away from being the two seed. The rockets were also two wins away from being the six seat or eight seat or whatever that was. You know what I mean? So it's like, it does work both ways. Of course.

So, like, we're celebrating the Rockets. Well, the number two seed added Kevin Durant, like their championship contenders. But the same way you were saying the Grizzlies were two wins away for being the two seed, the Rockets were two wins away from being the eights. But they had a lot of young players on that team, right, that were growing. That was their first go-thead. They have playoff scars now. That was their first go-through.

No, now they have playoffs cars. Well, and they ditched it for a guy that's more towards the end of his career than the beginning. Well, I think the chemistry is interesting because I can't sit here and pretend like I know Kevin Durant. I can't sit here pretend like I'm on the plane, you know, 82 times where they fly in and out of cities. And I know what's going on after the games and hotels. And I don't know. I don't know Kevin Durant.

But it does seem like he is not that sort of like veteran vocal leader. Don't worry, guys. I'll lead the huddle. Get behind me. I'm a coach on the floor, CP3 type. I think that's fair to say. And maybe this team has great chemistry and a great leader in IMA Udoca. And they're taking that into account.

And he doesn't need to be vocal because they've, guy du Doka and they've got they've got they've got Bamblid and other guys to do that maybe maybe this is going to be a perfect fit but maybe maybe this isn't the fish that needs to be added to the tank well and and look I will say this too as much as he drove me crazy like if you don't have a guy like Dylan Brooks you want a guy like Dylan Brooks that edge that craziness that feistyness that every single night this game matters to me every night the game matters to him right he's going to be there and he's going to raise the collective level of play of the rest of the guys and maybe they will just have that maybe maybe maybe that will

be maybe iman thompson can be that maybe javari smith you know what i mean maybe they've got enough guys and maybe the coach can do that but i'm just saying there that that that tinge of crazy that tinge that edge over and over again does bring something to the table that you miss when you don't Do the sons trade Jalen Greene? I mean, I don't see. It doesn't feel like Green and Booker should be on the same basketball. How can they not? It doesn't seem like they should be on the same basketball.

How can they not? I just don't under, I think that is when you looked at all the other stuff, when you talked about, look, you were you were hamstrung where he wants to go to three different teams, right? San Antonio obviously did not put forth any kind of serious offer. I mean, San Antonio could have put together an offer that was better than what they got. So, and then, and then the reports were that Miami did not even include like Jovich or Kalil Ware, whatever, that they weren't all that serious about it. And it's like, okay, well, then all things considered, I think you did pretty damn good. I will, it didn't feel like the Minnesota deal was probably the best deal.

Again, but, and look, you didn't do good with what you gave up because you gave up Macal Bridges and he gave up all. I mean, look, the sons, the Matt Ishpia sons took a team. that was right next to the NBA finals and like completely dismanted it and turned it into the most ridiculous group of overpaid nothing that you can. I mean, it's crazy.

It's crazy. The thing about trading green to me is it's like going to a foreign country and changing your dollars, right? We get to the airport, you go to that booth, and you know you're taking a hit. That booth, there's a margin.

There's a big. You're losing some money in that exchange. But the more exchanges you make, the more money you lose. And I feel like they made the Kevin Durant trade. They got back a return that was smaller than what they gave. And then they get Jalen Green. I think if they make another trade, they're going to lose more.

Dude, here's a deal, Jacoby. Is there anything you wouldn't undo? Anything you would keep Chris Paul? Shit, you might keep Monty Williams, especially after you fired the two guys since, right? Chris Paul, Macau Bridges, Tumani Camara, DeAndre Aiton

for Nurkich, Macau Bridges and that whole deal for there's not one of the things that you wouldn't go back and redo it if you could. I think acquiring Kevin Durant I might do. At the time... What good move have they made?

At the time, acquiring Kevin Durant seemed like something that was going to put them in championship contention. Well, the Beal thing is insane. the Beal one is just like... You wouldn't rather have Macau Bridges and Cam Johnson. By the way, Cam Johnson is Jake Crowder? I got it.

You wouldn't undo. In the moment, I was like, the Sons now have Kevin Durant. Don't forget, we're going into the season. I got it. But I'm saying, we felt good about the Sons. But I'm saying right now, you couldn't get McCall Bridges and Cam Johnson. You couldn't get... Oh, no, there's not...

You couldn't get McAle Bridges for Kevin Durant. No. Yeah. You couldn't get... I'm not going to sit here and be like, the Sons are doing a great job. I'm not sure. I'm not sure you could get Cam Johnson. For Kevin Durant.

I don't think he wants to go back to Brooklyn. It's just crazy. It's crazy. I can see this going really well. They're a mess. Could you see this going really well for Houston? Of course I can. I can see this going really well for Houston.

I'm just saying for Houston, it's a risk. That's all I'm saying. It's a risk. Do you think Kevin Durant can be your best player in the 20, 25, 20, 26 season? Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay.

Yes, I do. I mean, if you were to say, do you think Tyrese Halliburton can be your best player on a championship team at the beginning of the season? You would not say yes, and I wouldn't either. I think that's right. Yeah. You just get to remember what you felt like back then. We just watched him dominate for two months and have miracle after miracle. P.S.

Unfortunately, they did not win the championship. I know, but he could have been. I mean, come on. The potential is there. That is a championship. I just don't know. I think you've got to have a lot more around LeBron Curry and Durant. And many times we talk about these guys like it's 10 years ago.

There's one thing that we have. And in fairness, they do have a lot around Durant. They do. They do. They do. Yes. And once they acquired Jimmy Butler, they do have more around Steph Curry. And once they acquired Luca Donchitz, they do have more around.

But we went through this span where it was like, once upon a time, if you had those guys, they were to the superstar class where you're winning 50 games because they're on your team. And that's not what they are anymore. I'm just curious if we're going to see more Reed Shepard and Cam Whitmore. You traded two guys for one guy. And we were all in there wondering,

be like, why is it Reed Shepard playing? Like, obviously they know more about Reed Shepard at practice and Reed Shepard than I do. reason he's not playing, but it just feels like it would be a really nice spot for him to step up into a 16 a game roll, 60 minute roll, not points.

Real quickly, we mentioned... Wait, no, I'm a question quick about the tarant. We haven't covered. How's the hot dog? Delicious. How to go? What do you put on top of a hot dog? I put mustard on it. Mustard and ketchup. I didn't put ketchup on it. I put a little just mustard. I put a dollop of relish. Just this

weekend. I took my son and his friend Mateo to Coney Island and had the original Nathan's. When you have a hot dog from the original Nathan's, there's Nathan's all over the place. Airports, trains, not stand, like it's like having a Guinness in Dublin. It's just, it's different. God, this thing was so good. It was so good. Sourcrow with mustard.

How far is that? I drove. It's far because there's traffic. It's far. It's much farther than you. think. Because you're near Central Park, so how far is?

I had to get, I live, I don't not going to say where I live, but I live in the upper east side up there. Yeah. Like borderline of Harlem, East Harlem. And I looked at ways to get there.

And it was an hour and 10 minutes. There was a lot of traffic. And on the way home, I had to get home by four for something for my wife. And I looked at ways. It was an hour and 40 minutes on the way home. How many miles? Like 14.

20. I've ridden a bike there before it got in there faster. But then yesterday, I'm walking down the street, papaya dog. I had a papaya dog. I had two legendary New York hot dogs.

Two legendary New York hot dogs. If you know, you know. It's called papaya king or something, but they sell papaya juice. It's one of those things behind the counter, they have those spinning juice things. They have papaya and pineapple or whatever. It's the only place that sells papaya juice

in the whole world, in the whole country, I should say. The whole country, I should say. A lot of papaya is down in the Caribbean. But yeah, man, I've had two legendary hot dogs in the past 48. And you don't eat them that much, but they're fantastic. I would much rather have heard that story

to talk about Daniel Gafford's signing. Yeah, guess what? Daniel Gaffer signing, Stanch, and Ben, what's his face? I don't really get that. Am I crazy? I don't really get that either because don't they already have

Derek lively at Anthony Davis? I think it's a nice number. It's what, three years, $60 million? I think Daniel Gaffert's going to be a steal for $20 million a year. Okay. Don't you think he's worth $20 million a year? Wouldn't you want him in the Grizzlies for $20 million a year? Yeah.

Yeah. No. Again, I'm talking about team specific. I think that they were successful. Did they get Anthony Davis? Listen, they want to be big. And they have Derek lively, right? They want to be big.

I like it. That big. I like it. I like it. I like it. I like it. You have three great centers. What's the extension?

if you extend a guy, you can't trade him until like January 31st or something. There's some rule. We'll see. They probably won't end up ultimately with three centers. I forgot. Anthony Davis is not a center. I forgot. I forgot.

The last thing is the NBA draft is coming up on Wednesday night. And the Ace Bay story continues to get weirder and weirder. Right. And I guess we will track wherever he falls down to. But the odds right now have like, VJ Edgecombe now going three to Philadelphia, Khan Canipal going four. And like you got to get down the,

we're going down the list a little bit until we get to Ace Bailey and figure it out where he is going to end up, whether it's Washington or Brooklyn or I. And you know what? Maybe so at least, honestly, it seems to me that we know who the number one pick is going to be and we know who the number two pick is going to be.

And then the draft starts to get super fun by three. Yeah. Right? It's a deep draft too. It's a deep draft too. I'm excited about it. I just want someone to make a con canipple is a bigger, stronger

T.J. McConnell comp. That's all I'm waiting to hear. That's all I want to hear. Conchernipple is a stronger, bigger T.J. McConnell. That's all I want to hear. You know, I remember telling this story about several weeks ago,

or maybe it was sometime during the season where we were talking about how this I think it was Draymond Green or somebody was talking to a group of kids and he was saying you know

how many points do you think that Patrick Peverely he was talking about Patrick Beverly right and then he was like and they were like he's like how many points do you think he averaged

in high school and you know one kid's like eight a kid's like 12 a kid's like 16 he's like 38 or whatever he said He's like in Chicago. So like whatever you think you are, like watch the NBA.

And this morning, ball is like put this up as we'll wrap up the show with our beloved T.J. McConnell, as you just mentioned. It said T.J. McConnell in high school, which his father had mentioned that he did not play well in the state championship game. TJ McConnell in high school averaged 34 points, nine assists, eight rebounds, and six steals a game. He was headed there in game seven. Remember I said you can't win the championship in the back of T.J. McConnell? Like, I'm sitting there sweating out the third quarter. Like, maybe you can. For all the kids out there that think they can beat T.J. McConnell, just understand.

T.J. McConnell averaged 34, nine, eight, and six in high school. Jesus. And he missed an elbow jumper in the second quarter. I was floored. He got blocked by Chet on a layup, and I was like, how did that happen? That Pacer's team was a lovable team.

They really were. So were the Thunder team, Berno. So was that Thunder team. Yeah. What was that? Yeah. Congratulations to Oklahoma City, and my favorite team in the NBA,

the Oklahoma City Thunder. Amazing championship. The first of it leads six or seven in a row. Guaranteed. Guaranteed. Dynasty. Already a dynasty. I don't think we, I don't think you can use the dynasty word after one championship. You just can't.

You just can't do it. I mean, we're going to have to cancel first take. No comment. All right. Do it for tonight show. Thank you, Dr. Executive producer, Jesse Lopez. Thank you, Tucker on video and Jacoby. I'll talk to you later this week.

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