The Mismatch - Zion Ripple Effects, Knicks Outlook, and the State of the NBA With Jason Concepcion | The Void

Episode Date: February 24, 2022

Welcome to ‘The Void,’ where Kevin O’Connor brings you deep inside the NBA with the people who know it best. KOC brings on Crooked Media’s Jason Concepcion, host of Crooked’s 'Takeline,' 'ALL CAPS NBA,' and 'X-Ray Vision.' They discuss all the latest noise surrounding Zion Williamson’s future with the Pelicans (03:44). What is the better path for the Pelicans: compete for a playoff spot or tank for draft position (14:29)? Jason also talks about his dream scenario of Zion joining the Knicks (16:44). Despite the Knicks' disappointing campaign, Jason is intrigued enough by the team's young core to consider tanking the rest of the season (20:01). Jason also shares his emotions about former Knick Kristaps Porzingis (27:48). Then they go in-depth on the state of the NBA, specifically on how audiences are connecting with teams and players and how media outlets are covering the league (34:27). Lastly, they debate whether LeBron James will eventually leave the Lakers to play with his son Bronny (47:14). Host: Kevin O'Connor Guest: Jason Concepcion Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Full Court Fits is The Ringer's new weekly NBA video series hosted by Big Waz, a.k.a. Wosney-Lambray. Each week, we take you around the world of NBA fashion and share can't-miss style choices from your favorite players and keep you up to date on the latest news and releases in sneaker culture. Waz also talks to experts like Damian Lillard's personal stylists to give you behind-the-scenes looks at how the NBA's biggest stars choose their outfits. New episodes drop every Friday, so make sure you're subscribe to the Ringer's YouTube channel at YouTube.com slash the ringer so you never miss an episode. Hey, thank you for listening to another episode of The Void today.

We have a very, very, very special guest, my old friend and former co-worker, Jason Concepcion. Jason, what's going on, my friend? It's just a thrill to enter the void with you. I am not sure. I'm so in the void that I can't, I don't know where I am. I'm fully immersed in the void and it's a thrill to be back in your presence inside of the void with you. Kevin, how are you?

I'm doing okay, man. I mean, you entered the chat here on Zoom wearing a VR headset. Yeah. You were literally in the void. And you got it on right now. You're going to record the entire podcast with a VR headset on.

It's like we're in the same room right now. It's like I'm sitting next to you. I'm actually like sitting in your chair. It's an amazing and immersive feeling to enter the Metaverse TM in this form in fashion. Kevin, it's fantastic to see you. Your beard looks great. You look great. It's just wonderful to reunite. Absolutely, man. We've got to do a dinner soon in LA. Today, though, we're talking NBA with seven weeks left in the regular season, 20 to 25 games left,

depending on when you're listening to this podcast for every team in the league. The number one team I'm watching right now, Jason, is the New Orleans Pelicans. And it's not just because of the Zion drama this past week. You know, with CJ McCollum, saying, yeah, talk to Zion. It's because if all the ripple effects with the Pelicans, depending on how the rest of the season goes for New Orleans, will influence a bunch of teams across the NBA.

And the reason why that is is because at the moment, there are two games back from the Blazers for the 10th and final spot in the playing tournament. They're four and a half games back from the Lakers. And this year, New Orleans could only keep their own first round draft pick if it lands in the top floor, which means missing the playoffs, getting some lottery luck, and landing in the top four. If it doesn't, it goes to Portland if it lands between 5 and 14.

It goes to Charlotte if it lands between 15 and 30. But if the Pelicans do make the playoffs, it doesn't mean they won't have their first round draft pick, because if they bump out the Lakers, they get the Lakers first if it lands in the top 10. If the Lakers don't have a top 10 pick, it would go to the Memphis Grizzlies. So what happens with New Orleans will also directly affect Portland, Charlotte, and Memphis. Three teams all trying to either retool like the Blazers are with Dame, like the Hornets are trying to shape their roster around La Mello Ball, and the Grizzlies are trying to prepare for the next step with Jabbarant. The Pelicans, of course, have their own issues here. They trade for C.J. McCollum.

They're trying to make the playoffs. Zion might not be totally happy there. The Pelicans are a team that could change the way in which all of these teams are able to build moving. forward. Jason, what team do you think of those four? Blazers, Hornets, Grizzlies, and Pelicans, which of those four have the most to lose, depending on how this season goes for New Orleans? I mean, the Pelicans have the most to lose of any of the teams involved in this, just because they seem poised to lose Zion Williamson, whose dedication to that team has been called into question now by numerous people, including his former teammate, JJ Reddick,

including Stephen A. Smith, who's delighting in this, including any number of Knicks fans who have access to Photoshop and have been putting Zion into jerseys. You know, I don't know that we've ever seen anything, like we've seen players be disgruntled, perhaps be not dedicated we've seen it this season, with James Hardin pushing his way out of a second team, although I give him a pass for this one.

I feel like this one is the one that's fine. but we've never I don't know that we've seen a player like Zion go through the like strange injury news lack of updates about his playing time seeming

lack of connection with his team in a way that seems so designed to like push him out at this stage of his career And if he is, like, if he can get on the court, if he's healthy, he's one of the most devastating players, certainly one of the most devastating young players in the league. So I think it's the pelicans who have been, who are now poised to lose Zion Williamson after losing Anthony Davis, having two leg generational players of that ilk. Those are like, I wish the Knicks had a, had a level of player of either of those guys. So I feel for the Pelicans fans right now.

Yeah, I mean, it's a strange spot to be in, like, this whole past week. Really, let's for one, a couple of months. Anytime someone mentions Zion might leave the Pelicans, Pelicans fans would be like, oh, CAA, you know, it's an ESPN conspiracy. And understandably so you feel that way when everybody's talking about it. Yeah, it might be. But you know this, Jason. Everybody's talking about this around the league. the thing is, is publicly, this wasn't as big of a story as the Ben Simmons stuff,

as the James Harden drama. Now that's all, that's in the past for the NBA. Now the focus is on Zion here. And I think, I think about this team. And I just look at them, everything they've done on paper, granted they lost Lonzo Ball last year in some weird circumstances. The team right now, on paper, C.J. McCollum, proven bucket in the playoffs, durable.

Would be a great fit? Would be a great fit? fit with Zion? Brinan Ingram, playing better than he ever has, 22 points per game, playmaking better than ever, playing better defense than he has

since he was the Lakers. Jonas Valentrudeus. Think about what Zion did last year with Stephen Adams. Yonis Valentrucher shoots threes, man, 38% on over two attempts per game, spacing the floor, still scoring on the inside

as a rebounder, still protecting the rim. Herb Jones, dude. Herb Jones. Herb Jones, baby. Don't you love Herb Jones? I absolutely loved Herb Jones. Valenchunus is one of my, Valchunus is a player who

I love to watch Get Mad. Because when he gets like mad for whatever reason, he'll just like have a random 2020 game all of a sudden. He'll just be like, well, I'm going to just like throw my elbows into your neck over and over and over again and go for a rebound over the top of you. And just like physical you until you're just like, can I sit down? because this guy is going too hard at me. And you said it, Herb Jones.

It's, you wonder why it is broken down to this level, because on paper, I agree with you. Like, why wouldn't you want to give it a go with this squad and see what it looks like if you are Zion, if you're in Zion's camp? I, like, listen, you're the, you're the connected guy. You're much more connected on the circles than I am. What have you heard about Zion's state of state of mind, emotional well-being regarding the Pelicans in this roster?

I think it was pretty notable to have, one, to not reach out to a new teammate, particularly one of the stature of C.J. McCollum, who has been a proven score in this league. And two, to be called out for it. That's crazy. like on TV to be called out for it. He then, he posted like a bunch of like clips on his Instagram stories of like the called out for not like being connected to the team. And then he posted some stuff on Instagram,

which was I thought was funny as I did. But what have you heard? What is your sense of it? I mean, like, first of all, nobody knows every part of the truth here, right? So I think it's important to state that. And people you talk to around the league,

it's a lot of I don't know. but the stuff that you do hear is that there's just a lack of trust between the front office and Zion. The thing is, though, is this is a two-way street. Windhor said it on Wednesday on ESPN that Zion leaves in early January to rehab his injury, and it's distant literally and figuratively between him and the team. That's on Zion's side. However, I believe there's some frustration on the Zion side of things with the way expectations were set for him to come back, from this injury back in October.

You know, the way the team talked about it, he could come back, you know, get your season tickets. There's some frustration about, like, him having to come back in October or then in December when really they just don't know. They didn't know when he would be able to come back. So, I mean, I think that one of the things that's important to remember here is Jones fractures are complicated.

Ben Simmons, he missed his entire real rookie season with the Jones fracture. Katie needed three surgeries in six months because he had the Jones fracture in the past. So for Zion at one point tipping the scales of 300 pounds, that's a separate issue. But the fact is that this happens regardless of your body type, whether it's like your Zion or whether you're tall and lean like Katie

or you're like Ben Simmons. It can happen to anybody. So it's the type of thing here. I don't feel like maybe these setbacks have anything to do with conditioning. It might just have to do with the nature of the injury. So he might just miss the whole year, regardless of who he is because of this injury. At the same time, you know, the main concern for me with Zion is just we've never seen a guy like,

we've seen big guys before, right? You know, Oliver Miller, Charles Barkley. But never the combination of size, mass, and power that Zion has in particular, Not in the way that he has it. You know, like shack kind of mass at his size with the explosiveness. It's just unique. And everything in his career is like uncharted territory. So I understand what you're saying regarding, like, you know,

it doesn't necessarily matter what his body type is regarding the Jones fracture. At the same time, man, it feels, watching him feels like seeing some. something you've never seen before. And I do wonder how long it can continue. It's a legitimate concern. And I don't, you know, I don't know the weight issues seem mean at times, the way people talk about it. At the same time, like, man, he's, that guy's body just wants to be huge. I remember watching the Instagram videos of him, social media videos of him when he was like in AAU at high school. And it was like, how is this guy this pig? He should be chasing down quarterbacks. me like playing basketball.

What's that video of that little white dude? Oh my God. That's trash about him. You know, that classic. That is so funny. I love that video. And he's like, Zion like,

like, there's one moment when the kid comes out and Zion like, gestures at him like, are you seriously? Like this guy? The kid went at it. He went hard at it despite being like a hundred pounds lighter than him. But yeah, I just feel like, you know,

with him just, it doesn't instill much confidence. that, one, the way the injury coming into the season was announced was basically out of nowhere. It was like no news. Everybody seemed like it was fine. Zion's going to play. Then it was, oh, Zion had surgery on his foot out of nowhere. And then it's like, okay, you'll see him, you know, a couple weeks, four-ish weeks.

And then no news, no news, no news. You're not going to see him. You know, they've pushed it back. And then you keep expecting to hear more. and then you don't hear more. And I just think, having been through it with Chris Staps Porzing,

as a guy whose body type gave me pause, it feels, I have similar worries about Zion, and I'm sure any team that's thinking about, oh, can we pride this guy loose has similar concerns as well.

Sure. Yeah, and I think with New Orleans, I mean, look, Pelicans fans this past week or say, should we trade this guy? Like, the short answer is no. You shouldn't. Zion Williamson,

21 years old, in year three of his four-year rookie contract. I mean, like, he was a borderline top 15, top 20 guy last season when Stan Van Gunny put the ball on his hands and said, hey, you're basically our primary playmaker now. Like, it was ludicrous what he did. But, you know, for New Orleans, you do have the plan for in the event you have Zion

or don't have Zion, whether that's because of availability due to injury or whether it's due to because he's like, you know what, peace. I want to play somewhere else. So with the New Orleans right now, I look at this team on paper, Valanchunus, Zion, Ingram, Herb Jones, C.J. McCollum, that's a lineup with so much size, length, versatility around McCollum to cover for him on defense. And then on the offensive end of the floor, all five of those guys can score in a different types of ways. Herb Jones, like, that guy can handle the ball a bit, attack closeouts for you. Even he can as your fifth option.

You get Jackson Hayes off the bench, Devonte Graham bringing scoring, snail bringing shooting. Larry Nance is going to be back eventually. a good competitive team on paper. With that said, that involves a healthy in shape and invested Zion Williamson. I don't know we're going to get that. My question for you, Jason, is for New Orleans right now,

losing games leads to better lottery odds with their own draft pick, but pushing for a playing spot to make the playoffs could be a good thing. You could Zion happy. You possibly get the Lakers pick. What path is better for the New Orleans Pelicans the rest of the season? Win games.

You know, win games. I think win games. You brought in CJ, let's make a push and see if you can make some noise and at least lay out the argument that, hey, dedicate yourself to the squad, Zion, because look at the only missing ingredient is you for a team that will absolutely be in the playoff mix. So I think win, win and show him that, you know, because there's a weakness that's been revealed about, you know, the Pelicans or the, the last several years, it's just retaining guys. You know, like it's been small market versus big market has been such a topic of conversation in recent years. And I think show that you can keep a guy.

Like make yourself a destination. Make yourself a place where a guy could stay because they feel like there's a plan here. There's a good team here. I have a voice in this in the organization, whatever that means. And I feel like I can succeed here. And I feel like that means winning, period, bottom line. Like, teams can talk about culture, they can talk about all the stuff they want to instill, but if you don't win, none of the other things happen.

So just show that you can be competitive right now. I'm with you, Jason. I think that's a better route. And even if you do miss the playoffs, you still need lottery luck for it to even matter for you to land a top four pick because you're not getting top four draft lottery odds. I mean, if Zion returns sometime before April, I mean, I think it's pretty much a guarantee. New Orleans will make the play in at the least. They're not going to win a series.

You're not going to beat the Warriors or the Suns in a first round, but they can make the play in and then the playoffs. As a Knicks fan, Jason, where does your hope of getting Zion ever to play in New York rank and the list of things that you're thinking about right now with the Knicks? I dream about it. I'll be honest. I do dream about it.

I had a friend asked me the other day, like, you know, just, like, posed a deal that included, you know, quickly, Grimes, a couple first rounders, and then, you know, enough salary to make it work. Would I, basically, would I part with my young guys and Julius Randall? And I, and you would have to do it.

That said, I'm still not, I still don't believe, I understand that there's a lot of theorizing and that none other than Stephen A. Smith has come out and said that that's a thing that Zion has wanted. And it's, there's a lot of rumors that, there and of course like RJ and Zion have a great relationship but listen I just don't I don't I don't believe it I don't believe that that it would be possible to land him but if they have if the Knicks have a chance to do it they should absolutely pursue it because this is what they

have been trying to do the next couple of years such that it is has been basically like a smarter version of the plan that they have had for the last 20 years which is get a star player. Get star players to come here. Get named players to come here. You can't rebuild in New York. We're not going to like tank. We're not going to bottom out and go for top draft picks. We're not going to go the OKC route, right? How do we make this team, this city, palatable for star players? They struck out with Kyrie and KD. That didn't work. and that seemed to that seemed to force the teams

like rededicate themselves to it to what I thought was a pretty solid plan which is hey let's get pretty good and competitive and we can point to that like look at how crazy this team won one playoff game

look at how crazy the fans are they're nuts they're going like imagine that with you star player X. Like, imagine you as the missing ingredient that they're doing this when Julius Randall and wash Derek Rose. Like, come in and be a part of this. And I thought that was, that plan is generally the way they've gone about it. Again, it's the same thing they've been doing for years, but they've done it more strategically. None of the bets they've made worked out. But I think if you have the

chance to acquire Zion, player of that ilk, you do it. Because this is, what they have been building toward. Find out if you can do it. In many ways, I mean, this year feels like a huge stepback, which it is. I mean, after last year, the feel good vibes and all that to this year. But the infrastructure of something

that can accommodate a star is still there. RJ Barrett's really good. Quentin Grimes? Quint Grimes, dude. Love him. I love him. He's looking like he'll be in the league for 10 plus years, the 3 and D guy already. What he did last, what, three, four games and during the All-Star break, 15 points per game on 8-3s,

shooting like nearly 50% of 3, 35 minutes. It's like, finally, Tibito. And his TikTok is really good. Like, this is just, it's tremendously, I have, it's been a long time since I have been as excited and intrigued about a young core for a Knicks squad as the young players that we currently have between RJ, OB, Grimes, Deuce McBride, looking at hopefully get some minutes coming down the stretch here.

But why does Obie Topper play half the minutes is Paz Gives and none? What is Tom Tibido doing? Why does he think he wants to play the veterans, Jason? I don't understand. Why? First I'm going to, let me give the pro, the pro-tibodeau would be this.

He is in a difficult spot in the sense that, you know, O.B. has notable weaknesses. He's not going to give you any type of defense, although I think he is improved from what I thought he would be coming out of college. Definitely. He has. He has improved. Got to give credit there. So there's that.

But, you know, the veterans are, you know, it's like Julius Randall's our best player, period. You know what I mean? And so you rise and fall with him. The veteran players, be it Tajkusen or Evan Fornier, they know how to play what they lack is any kind of ability to move with energy. And the young guys kind of don't know how to play, right? They're still figuring it out. Be it Grimes' IQ takes like two shots that I'm like, why are you taking this every single time down the floor when he's on there? He makes wild decisions every time.

But what they do is they run and they move with energy. It be great if the veteran players could also move with energy, but they just can't. So, like, this is, you know, Tibido is trying to figure out, like, how to balance that. You add to that the fact that, like, he just loves vets. Tom Tibido is addicted to vets. This guy, I mean, it's, like, cocaine to him. I don't truly understand why. but and I thought I did not think that we would get to this part of the Tom Tibido, you know, life cycle.

I thought we'd have another season before we truly went into the Tom Tibido, you know, playing Alec Burke's 40 minutes like era, but we're here and it's these are the guys he trusts. You know, the strength of him, much like Doc Rivers is like he just gives all of his trust to certain, players, and so they play hard from him for him. The downside of that is a lot of times you're like, why are you giving this guy this much trust? You know, like, Alec, I actually think that Knicks are exactly what you would expect for a team that starts Alec Berks in a position and a role that he's just not up for. He's playing well this season. He's just not a starting point guard in the league, and he's being asked to do just a tremendous amount of load carrying

that honestly, like, he's not equipped to do. And so we're as good as that. We're as good as the fact that Alec Berks is our best playmaker on the floor a lot of times. We just don't have that natural playmaker. So it's just confusing. And it's clear now that Tibido in the front office are at loggerheads, particularly about Cam. It's not looking good. Add to that the various rumors that.

World Wide West is steadily shoving Tom Tibido under the wheels of the bus. And I would imagine that I don't think he'll get fired this season. I think that would be silly. But I would imagine they'll explore it in the offseason. I can't imagine why he does this. Why does he do? You tell me, Kevin, why is Tom Tibino like this? I mean, he's stuck in his ways.

That's my understanding for years from everybody I've talked to, is that Tibbs is just kind of stuck in his ways. He is a true basketball junkie. Like, it's all he does. I don't think he's married. I don't think he's a girlfriend. I don't think he has much any other interests outside of basketball. It's all he does.

And it's his way or the highway. That's my understanding of Tibbs as a person. And it's unfortunate because I think, like, tactically, exes and nose-wise, I think he's a good coach. He's a great defensive tactician. He's a guy who can be a motorist. He's just in some ways just stuck and doing what he's always done. And for New York, it really is going to be fascinating to see if the Knicks missed the

plan or even if they make the plane and then miss the playoffs, if World Wide West and Leon Rose fire tips one season removed from him winning coach of the year and all the feel good vibes that the team had. And with that said, though, that could ultimately be for the best for the Knicks. The weird part is with this franchise is that, like, you make the playoffs last year, in a year, everybody expects you to miss it. This year, the expectation is to step up. And now it's like you have the ninth best lottery odds in a year with a pretty good top of the draft class. As a Knicks fan, Jason, do you want the team to make the playoffs?

Or are you fine with them possibly getting a lottery pick? Yeah, let's tank it out. I think we tank it out. I think we tank it out. I think there is no more important mission to me for the Knicks right now than to develop these young guys and see what they got, see what you have there in them. And so let them play. And listen, whether they want a tank, whether that's a decision they would make, they won't make that. Tom Tudow team will not do that. They're going to lose anyway. They're not good.

Again, they have no national playmaker on the team. They start like four of the, the slowest guys in the league. Tom Tibido loves to play those slow guys all the time. We're going to lose games. So whether I want us to do it or not, we're going to go for those lottery odds, baby. That's what's going to happen. I will say, you know, like the one thing you mentioned

is stepping back from the last season. And I do think that their front office, Leon Rose, made some bets that I think were reasonable to make, right? Fournier, Kimball Walker. Yeah, we were a great. defensive team, if we can take half a step back on defense and a full step forward on offense, that's worth it with the gamble, design the contracts so that they're like very tradable jenga pieces.

If there's a move to be had in the middle of the season, I think all those were reasonable gambols. None of them paid off. And I think a key part of that, to your point, is we thought we were a little better than we actually were defensively last season. You know, but analytics folks were talking all season about how many open threes the Knicks were giving up to opponents and how opponents were just missing. We're just underperforming in those looks. And it was a question as to whether that would catch up with the Knicks that seat and just never did.

It just never did. And I think regarding that half a step back on defense, it turned into a full step back because we just thought we were a little better than we actually were defensively. And now teams are just, teams are just like nailing those threes, hitting those open threes. We've had a number of career performances against this season.

And it's unfortunate. Kevin, here we are again. Tank it out. Let's get that draft pick, baby. Do you miss Khrasap's Porzingis at all? Does any party you miss him? It's tough because I disagree with how, I'm a process person.

And I think the NICS process over the years has been the thing that is stymied them. not having a consistent process. And I think, regardless of how it turned out, it's, I think, unquestionable at this point that, like, it's good that they got off Chris Stapp's Porzingis, considering his injury history and his inconsistent play, et cetera. That said, you should never get into a feud with your, like,

number three lottery pick that at times looked like a potential star in the making. to the point that you end up trading him for pieces, you know? I just don't think it should ever get to that point, regardless of the fact that, like, because of his injury history, that looked like a good move. Like, you should be keeping those players. And you shouldn't be getting, like, strong-armed over whether a player is or isn't going to sign, like, the qualifying offer,

a thing that is thus far to this point in NBA history, not really happened at that level. So, I'm glad. Zion could, we'll see. Yeah, I think it was the right move, but I also think we arrived at that move in the wrong way, if that makes any kind of sense.

What's it been like for you as a next fan, seeing KP go to Dallas, the ups and downs there, now he's in Washington? I mean, it obviously made it, we've made it the pill easier to swallow. It made, you know, like the, I think KP had a, had a bounce back season, this season, but it made it easier.

The fact that he couldn't get on the floor, his defensive inability, his lack of an ability to be consistently healthy, all of that made it easier to swallow. It just made it easier. Who had the line that they call him, they call him the unicorn because you so rarely see him. I forget who said that.

It's too, bad though. I mean, like, you brought up KP and it relates to Zion, like you said, these weird body types, these guys that truly, like in their own respective ways are unicorns physically. Like, we just don't see seven foot three lean guy like KP. We don't see six foot six compact, wide, explosive like Zion. And these two guys, I mean, Zion is better than KP ever was. Even at his height. Like the way he started, I think his last season with the Knicks, KP had like 10.com. He had like 10. 10 games to open the award. Was it averaging 30 points, blocking everything around the room? That was the peak of Chris Tavs, Porzingis, where you're like, wow, this guy can be dominating the league for a decade. Just like last season, Zion's last 25, 30 games, like, wow, this guy could be dominating the league for a decade.

This guy's a point guard? Oh, my God. Yeah. Like, what is like, yeah? And we might not get that from either of them. And KP now in Washington, we don't know when is actually Hillary back. Bradley Bales out for the season. What are your expectations for Porzingis in Washington?

Is he the guy that could keep Bradley Beal there? Is that what they're thinking and adding KP at the deadline? Are they still trying to build around Beal? Because that's my impression. It's still all about Beal. I don't think you get rid of, I don't think you make the moves that Washington made at the deadline unless you're dedicating yourself to Bradley Beal.

That seemed like a move. That seemed like Bradley Beal's, get the get i want to deal with this anymore just trade these guys and that and tommy shepard doing it um so i think that beel is and bele has never said anything except that he wants to be in washington and be the guy in washington and honestly like why not sign the extent like sign the extension right and if later down the road you know the current state of the NBA is sign the sign the extension sign the super max with the team and if you want to leave you can still leave like There's nothing stopping you.

So if, but, you know, my sense is like, I watch a lot of wizards because my girlfriend is a wizard's fan. So my sense is, yes, of course, they're going to dedicate themselves to Bradley Beal. How exactly they're going to fit in Porzinger's with Thomas Bryant and Gafford and where he fits in that is going to be interesting, I think. I'm unsure of how that will turn out. But on paper, that's, a fun fit. Beal plus Porzingis, plus, like, Rui Hachmoor is playing well, plus Danny Avia, who

like is a on defense, like, a scrappy, hard-nosed guy. Like, that's, they've got, like, the, he's really good on defense. He's really good. They've got a, they've got, like, the core of a really fun young team,

um, talent-wise, much like we were talking about the pelicans. So, like, I'm like intrigued by them. I have fun watching them. With Beal, you mentioned the potential of him signing that five-year Supermax contract and then saying, you know what, peace, I'm going to go trade me. A lot of talk this past

week about the negatives of that. And there certainly are negatives in terms of building a fan base and having trust that your star players are going to be there for an extended amount of time. I do think the Wizards Beal thing is a little different though, because if

Beal does sign that contract, he is given Washington more time that they otherwise might not gotten without the option to give that contract. So even though, like, it can screw the team in some ways of a player signs a deal and one year in decides to ask out, it screws fans. It sucks that that happens. The flip side of it, though, is like, it can give them time.

The Wizards could get an extra year or two with Bradley Beale, a guy that you theoretically want to build around. But at the same time, though, the guy, the version of Bradley Beal we saw the season is not a guy you want to give the Supermax to. No, it's not. committing $30 million to Chris Stavis Porzingis who can't stay on the floor. It's like this Wizards team, they have a lot of good there, but there's also like if you give Beal that money, like it's going to be really hard to build the rest of this whole thing out here.

I go, how do you feel about the whole state of league right now, Jason, just with everything I said? You know, the conversations have been so much about how much power players have in the league. I think it's generally been a good thing. although it's interesting to me that every solution to the problem of retaining of teams being able to retain their players, small market teams in particular being able to retain their players, Supermax contracts, different accelerators for contracts that would give different options for teams to be able to pay a player more money, all those things have resulted in a series of like, foreseen consequences that it's unclear to me that the solutions ever really fix the problem. And I do wonder whether solutions like Supermaxes don't just create like several more problems. I mean, we just saw like, you know, there was a lot of questioning about whether the Lakers might

try and trade Russell Westbrook before the deadline. And, you know, basically the only other Jenga piece that fits that is John Wall. you get into a situation where a supermax is never anything but a time bomb in the making, right? It's never anything but the worst fucking contract in the league in a year or two years. And that part of it feels untenable. But I do think generally the more power that players have had in the league has been a net positive. and as a person who enjoys, like, drama, it's made the league really interesting to talk about,

although, you know, we do end up having situations like the James Harden situation in which he, for a second time, is moving himself out of a team in part by displaying to the team that had him in the moment that he just was not going to play hard. It's, I mean, there's pros and cons to him. What do you think? I mean, I think, I think,

There's something for everybody in the NBA. There is. There's the drama. You can follow the NBA for all the drama. Everything that happens away from the cord, from the business side of things. And you do also have the guys like John Morant who, granted it's young in his career. You have guys like Janus. You have guys like Dame who do want to stay in these smaller markets.

You do have that as well. And having the Supermax there could help keep those guys there potentially down the line as well. maybe Damien Lowe is making different choices without the option to sign the Supermax. We don't know all of that. So there's the pro, there's the pro side of it there. And with the NBA right now, though,

I generally think I love movements. When I play Badin and 2K NBA Live back in the 2000s, I love playing the franchise modes and changing pieces and seeing teams turn over every two, three years, which is what they've always done in real life. In many ways, it remains unchanged. It's just we're seeing more,

star players utilize their power to go where they want to. But there's always been turnover on rosters since, you know, as long as basketball, those football, whatever sport it might be, have been in existence with free agency. Now, what do you make of the argument that this undercuts people's ability to bond with the team? Notably, you know, the All-Star game for the first time, I think in years was out, you know, was outperformed by the Daytona 500. on TV by like some 40% like ratings.

I think you could say are down, although ratings for most sports have been down over the course of the pandemic, not counting the NFL, which had its best playoffs like ever. What do you make of that? That, oh, the argument that it's, well, I can't connect with a team.

Like I could, you know, the bulls of old because guys are coming in and coming out and I don't know what kind of team I'm going to have. I mean, that's complicated. I mean, I think one of the advantages of the NFL is that the way they brand teams. Yeah, it's not about the players. Yeah, it's like you know characteristically

like what the Ravens are, what the Steelers are. And the NBA, teams are defined by the players on them. And those players change over so often. So it can be harder to develop a relationship. I mean, I can only speak to this from like my upbringing as a fan. And like growing up rooting for the Celtics, I mean, the players that I grew up loving were like Eric Williams, and Walter McCarty.

And then when those guys were gone, Walter, I love Walter. I love Walter. RIP, Tommy Hyde said, I do miss his voice very much. But, you know, like, it was those guys, and then it was Tony Allen and Leon Poe. And I fell in love with new players in different ways. And I remember all the Paul Pierce trade rumors

all throughout the early 2000s about, should the Celtics get rid of him? They traded it. Danny Angel's first big trade that he made was getting rid of one of my favorite players and Juan Walker. And then I fell in love with other guys. So I mean, for me as a fan growing up, it was always about, well, who's next? What's the next iteration of this team?

It was always about the team. And I kind of, I guess growing up, I always had an understanding of like, these guys aren't going to be forever on the Boston Celtics, that the pieces are always going to change. So, like, in that. way, that's always been my perception of watching my team since I was a little kid. Does that make sense? For me, this has just always been this way. No, it makes sense.

I, you know, for me, Al Jefferson became Kevin Garnett, man. I loved Big Al. I used to argue with people on forums that Al Jefferson was going to be better than Dwight Howard. I mean, I was that guy on forums. There was a two-season stretch there where it was like Al Jefferson, along with Zach Randolph were like single-handedly keeping low post footwork like alive. You know what I mean?

Yeah, they were so fun. I love them. I, you know, I love the state of the league right now. I do think that there are some issues. I think that I think we're, I think the player empowerment era, so such as it is called. And the kind of like hand wringing over it are a little overblown. I will say that I think that one thing, you know, like NBA, not media, but NBA, like, talking head stuff and shows could do better that I see happen in NFL

coverage. It doesn't really happen in such a fun way in NBA coverage. It's like, we don't have, like, a Romo. Like, we don't have, we have Charles and Shaq and Kenny who hate the way the game is played now. Yeah. They fucking hate the modern game. They're fun to watch.

I love watching them. They're great. They hate the way the game is. play. They absolutely despise it. They don't even hide it. Like, they just don't like it. Their position would not exist today. Charles shot like 30%

from three over his career. Like, they just don't like the way it's played and they can't recognize it and they're not like fun spokespeople for the way the game is played in that regard. I wish we had like a Romo figure who could combine the, oh,

they're going to run this. Look at this play. This is so fun. with a real zeal for like the way the game is played. Like who has that personality to meld the kind of like analytics X's and O side with the personality, the fun of the league side. I think that there's one, that's one area of NBA coverage that I feel like is really lacking. And I think could go a long way to like answering a lot of the criticisms that the fan base and maybe the general sports fan have about the league. Which is so interesting.

I mean, like NBA coverage versus NFL coverage. I think there's a lot of, there's so many great people covering all sports, everything. Like, no matter what it is. The internet has everything. But like the ESPN or TNT broadcasts doesn't break down the game in either an analytical way or in terms of like straight X's and O's in the way that like ESPN NFL does with like, you know, Mina, DeMina Kimes, Darren Olavski. like Dan brings that enthusiasm

we're talking about with like the screen breaking down plays and all that like I think ESPN NBA TNTNBA needs to integrate a little bit more of that I think legs does a great legs is one of my favorite

Tim Legler is great I just wish there was a little more you know to your point of that kind of I'm learning about the game while being entertained which I think NFL coverage can J.J. Reddick do that? They get JJ Reddick doing it. Absolutely J.J. Reddick can do that. J.J. can be that guy.

He can? Can he be like the color commentator on a broadcast? Well, here's the interesting. I think he can. You know, the thing that's been interesting to me, I texted you this recently about JJ is like when he came out so strongly with his take about Zion, and I think in a very fair way, certainly not in a kind of head. Saying he's a detached teammate that this follows a trend, that he's been new in this for years.

Doing it in a way that felt, you know, more respectable, respectable than, maybe the way that Kendrick Perkins might occasionally like take aim at a player. But it's been interesting to me to watch JJ on the one hand be this access-oriented, really incredible podcaster who has some of the most thoughtful, like, interviews with NBA players and has access to them and be, you know, like an ESPN talking head who is willing to say, this guy's fucking out. I don't agree with the way this player is doing this, X, Y, and Z. that is really fascinating. To your point,

he's a great communicator of the game. And I do wonder, I just love JJ. And I do wonder if at any point those two things come into conflict. But right now, he's just one of the most fun guys to watch and listen to.

He's great. He does it all. I'm loving JJ's stuff. JJ on ESPN, debate in Stephen A. Smith's bringing some logic and reasonableness to the table. and like he's entertaining

and he's educational. He does both. And I think that if you can hit both of those things, it's a major one. Stephen A hasn't been able to like put him in a headlock yet. He's unfazed. He's unfazed by Stephen A. And JJ comes prepared.

He does. He just comes with facts and he comes with a very, very like, even keel of attitude that's like, it's like watching a great like wrestler who, you know, CVA just has not been able to get a hold of him yet. I'm waiting to see if it will ever happen, but yeah, JJ. One other thought here, Jason, before we get out of here, is this past week with LeBron James and the Lakers,

you have Brian Windhorst saying on ESPN earlier this week, they may have to trade LeBron. The rest of this season for the Lakers, they are always the team that everybody's watching. But the rest of this year for the Lakers, I'm intrigued because of the, also the Brony James storyline here this is starting to rise here people are starting to talk about

Bronny James as like a player that he's told LeBron himself told the athletic my last year will be played with my son wherever Brony is at that's where I'll be

I would do whatever it'll take to play with my son for one year it's not about the money at that point and people assume this means that his last year would be the first year

Brony James can enter the NBA that is not necessarily true He said my last year will be played with my son. So the beginning of Bronny's career might not necessarily be played with a brawn.

But for the Lakers here, they're in a situation where the rest of the season is kind of a wash. They're not winning the championship. They enter a summer in which they have to make big moves. But this entire year of 2022,

the one factor that people are overlooking here is that Bronny James could reclassify because he was born in October to enter the 2023 draft class. So this year, Here with L.A.

That's the one thing when I see Windhorst, who's written books about LeBron and very tied into the clutch, when he says they might have to trade him, I wonder for L.A., there's more at stake the rest of the season with the way in which they perform, then maybe we think.

I agree with that. Listen, Bill Orum had a piece in the athletic in which he basically says that the Lakers and LeBron are heading for a divorce, intimating that The Bronny James comments came as a shock to the team. The kind of, the fissures have been quite obviously there.

And by all accounts, LeBron was displeased by the lack of movement at the trade deadline. This has made all the more ironic because it would basically be a move, had some move happen to the trade deadline. It would basically be a move to fix the move that Braun foisted a point. on the Lakers with the acquisition of Russell Westbrook. But it is, it's, it's a fascinating thing. You know, I don't think people, the Lakers are obviously like, perhaps the glamour team of the NBA.

Internationally, they're huge, you know, Filipino-American. This is like the biggest team in the Philippines as the Lakers. Like Nick Van Axel still has an enormous fan base because of his time with the Lakers in the Philippines. But the Lakers are like quietly not as deep pocketed as other teams who are owned oftentimes by billionaires, sometimes multiple billionaires in an ownership group. The buses, this is their business. The Lakers are their business.

And they're restricted in a way that I think often comes into conflict with the way people think about them as the glamour team in the NBA. Here's an example. There's like a local billboard that you see around L.A. There's one at a gas station in my neighborhood. It's Jacob M. Rani, who is a local, like, injury, personal injury lawyer. And you'll see his billboard. You'll say call jacob.com. And his billboard, the background of it, it's his picture.

And the background is Lakers colors with the Lakers logo. And he is the, he is like has a personal, he's like, the lawyer of the lay he has a personal sponsorship agreement a multi-season sponsorship agreement with the late he's a personal injury injury lawyer like this is the level to which the lakers will dig around to create streams of income for themselves they will like enter a sponsorship agreement with just like a lawyer a local lawyer um and so they're constrained in ways that i think we don't, we don't really think about. And clearly those, those fissures are coming to the floor with LeBron already.

Listen, when you start mentioning whatever happens, I'm going to play with my son. First of all, incredibly savvy move to ensure that like Brian James is going to go in the top, you know, like 15 to 10. Yeah, he's going to 15 to 10. He's going, he's going up there regardless of like, you know, what? people think because you get LeBron too. NBA people think as of today mid-junior season that he's like an early second-round pick. Six-three, defensive guard, shoots threes, and we'll see how things change. But if you're an early second-round pick, plus you sign LeBron James for at least one year, you're becoming a lottery pick, almost guaranteed. He's not ever really been the best

player on his AAU team, you know? Like so how really can he move? I got to ask you this, because this is the thing I've been thinking about. If you're Bronny James, are, or Are you, like, kind of annoyed at this? You know what I mean? Like, do you feel like getting into the league in a way that people could question how high you went because of your dad's influence? Like, do you, I don't know, like, I'm sure it must be one, like, the positives vastly outweigh the negatives.

At the same time, like, I could see feeling a type of way about it. Yeah, and those potential issues aren't going to really bubble up until you're actually in the league, or let's say he does reclassify and you spend a year in the G League, and if you suck, like that, that's suddenly, like, then you get drafted with the 12th pick. Yeah.

Because, like, OK, see, Sam Presti has like 400 of them. He's like, ah, screw it, one year of LeBron. Right. And not for. Certainly. But like, at least you're in the league. You know what I'm saying? You are in the league, though.

Maybe you otherwise wouldn't be in the league. I mean, like, I don't know, man. It's a complicated thing. I mean, the one thing that I think about kind of along those lines is that everybody talks about Brody James, but nobody talks about Bryce James. If you're Bryce James, you might feel a certain type of way when he's already as tall as Brawny James. Watch video in him, he's got some skill, man.

He's got some size, some ball handling, some scoring ability. Like, Bryce James could become a player too. He's only a freshman in high school, but nobody talks about Bryce James. my dad, LeBron, doesn't talk about me. It's all about brawny. It's LeBron Jr. Oh, maybe that'll light of fire under Bryce to become like the lawn, you know, like the lamello to the lawns. Yes.

Do you think there's any part of LeBron James that wants to go full over our ball? It just starts talking his kids up as potential top five picks. I think in a different way, but like I would imagine that every, every parent would want that if they could do it. You know, like, I think we, listen, LeVar ball, what can you say? The batting average speaks for itself. You know, like, if you might question the methods, you can't question the results. And I would imagine that every sports parent in the world would want to achieve what LeVar Ball and his sons have. Jason, there's a lot going on in the world.

How are you doing, man? I'm doing, okay. I'm doing it's really good to see your face and talk to you today. What's going on? It's really great. You know, I'm watching everything with concern and alarm, much like I'm sure everybody else is. But I'm just trying to get through it and hopefully provide some content for people so that they can feel like for an amount of time, they can take their minds off of it. Or at least think about it in a way that feels like, hey, we're just discussing things I enjoy and also things that give me anxiety.

But with friends, you know. How are you doing, Kev? I'm doing pretty well, man. It's a busy time. It's great, though. I'm happy to be doing what I'm doing, and things are cool here being back in L.A. I can't wait to get my mom moved out here. She's dreading being in Massachusetts right now, so she's excited to get out here eventually. But things are good, man. I'm happy. What kind of content are you consuming right now? Like, what's, are you playing any video games? Any music? You're playing your guitar. I see in the background. What do you do in Jason to keep busy? I've been playing a lot of video games. I've been playing Seifu on PlayStation. I'm waiting for Eldon Ring to unlock so I can play that. Eldon Ring coming out today, tomorrow? Eldering coming out today.

I've been out of Warzone since the recent updates because it's just like an absolute mess in there. Everybody's cheating. The double shotgun meta was terrible, and I laugh. It's been better this past week. This past week, they've did some changes. and it's been a little better. It's been a little bit. Well, we have to get back to it, man.

We've got to get back to it. If you weren't able to have dinner with me next week because you're playing elder rings, I will totally understand, Jason. No, let's do it. Let's have dinner. It was great. Thank you for having me.

And where can we find your content right now, Jason? Take line comes out every Tuesday, wherever you get your podcast, X-ray vision. My podcast about, you know, nerd stuff, pop culture, comic books, TV, comes out every Friday, and then All-Caps, MBA comes out every Friday. on YouTube, check it out.

Hell yeah, man. Jason, thank you for joining, dude. Thank you for having me. So great to see you. Well, that's going to do it for today's episode of The Void. Thank you again, Jason Concepcion for joining the show. It's really good talking to my old friend, man. I miss working with Jason. He's such a good dude. I look forward to seeing him in person in L.A.

Big thank you to Jesse Lopez for producing today's episode. And thank you to you for listening to The Void. I'll be back on Friday and Tuesday with the mismatch. We're going to have a lot of NBA games to talk about. with the games starting back up on Tuesday. And then next week, I'll be back again with another episode of The Void. So be sure to subscribe to the mismatch podcast feed.

Give us a rating and review. It really does help the show. And I hope you have a great rest of your day. Thanks.