The Moth - Banned Books Week: The Moth Podcast

Episode Date: October 10, 2025

This week is Banned Books week, and to honor that, we’ll be sharing stories about censorship, courage, and the importance of the written word. This episode was hosted by Cleyvis Natera. Storytellers: Mohammed Bin Khulayf tells us about meeting a man in a parking lot to buy banned books. Toby Price faces unexpected consequences when he introduces his students to a book he and his family love. Podcast # 941 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When you're with Amex Platinum, you get access to exclusive dining experiences and an annual travel credit. So the best tapas in town might be in a new town altogether. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. A new era of fitness is here.

Introducing the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus, powered by Peloton IQ, built for breakthroughs with personalized workout plans, real-time insights, and endless ways to move. Lift with confidence, while Peloton IQ counts reps, corrects form, and tracks your progress. Let yourself run, lift, flow, and go. Explore the new Peloton cross-training tread plus at OnePeloton.ca. Welcome to the Moth. I'm Claves Natera. I'm a moth storyteller. I'm a teacher, and most importantly for this episode, I'm a writer. This week is Band Books Week, and to honor that, we'll be sharing stories about censorship, courage, and the importance of the written word. I'll talk a bit more about why this week is so critical later in the episode.

But let's start with a story. Mohamed bin Kulayv told us at a Houston story slam where the theme of the night was, appropriately enough, books. Here's Muhammad, Life at the Moth. I wonder how many of you had to meet strangers in parking lot to buy books. Otherwise, you probably never lived in a third-word country

where censorship impact your buying purchases. In Saudi Arabia, where I grew up, the government censor books where there are certain books you're allowed to buy, and there's books that they're just not allowed. Any books that explicitly argues with evolution or against the governments or against religion, they will be straight up bent. So I don't know if you all remember message boards and internet forum. That's when I would go and know about what books are banned and what, like, hot. so I could go and chase down for those books, because I'm not buying available books. I'm buying all the banned ones that the government tell me I should not read.

But the problem is there's a lot of books that are not available that we assume they're banned. So when we want to buy banned books, we would hear of a friend or a friend or a cousin or someone off the online. We're going to a neighboring country. So we would send them a list. We would be like, this is the books that we're looking for,

Michael Jackson Cassettes, the Titanic. And we would meet in a parking lot, and we either give them money, or we exchange with other band books and other cassettes. If you travel to a neighboring country in Saudi Arabia, bookstores would have literally a section of banned books inside Arabia because they know we would spend any money to get a banned books. There is a trick or a loophole in the system

where we could buy, where we could get our hands on banned books. That's Riyadh International Book Fair, and I recommend you check out their Wikipedia page because there is a lot of scandals throughout the years. Because there's a lot of books that come to Saudi at one time, and a lot of them are new that Saudi government did not have chance to review, there would be a chance of getting banned books. The agency that enforces banned books are religious police,

and they will walk into the book fair, chasing down people buying books, and they will take them off of their hand, and they will be at the gates looking at what you bought, and they will check out the books, and they will read it, and they'll be like, oh, there are animals talking in this books. And the other reason will be like, yeah, that sounds quite socialist. And I'll be like, it's the animal farms. There's four kids.

Why would you take that away from me? I've always wanted to read Just U.S.K. And I could not find any of his work, so I assume they were banned. On the internet, there's always mentioned of a very specific translation. His name is Sammy Aldrubi, and he is a very popular Syrian translator. He is the authority of Russian literature. If you wanted to read those, you ask you, you want to read his books. And they were the one that were the most wanted in my list.

And every year at the Book Affair, I would ask for them. One year, I went on a Wednesday morning, the men's only day. And I walked in early in the morning before the religious police could come in, and I went to the publisher, and I shattered him up. He was getting set up, drinking his cardam tea, and I started to get to know him, and I start complaining. about censorship and all the politics and whatnot and I told him how I've always wanted Dostovski's books and he's like okay I got you I have them I was

like you have those fiscuits I've always wanted them how much and he's like I have all of his work 18 volume the complete work Dostovski is translated you have to meet me tomorrow morning in the parking lot I will be drunk at my white fan, knock on the door at 9.30, bring $500 cash. I was like, oh my God, I would text all my friends, should we get in, like, everyone put in some money, we would buy the whole compilation. No one ever I know has the books. I would be able to trade for any band books. books. I would be straight for any music I wanted. I would have Monopoly over all the band

books. That's going to be my entry. I was like, sure, whatever, I will meet you tomorrow. I brought money, and he opened the fan, and oh my God, there were all those duckle edges all over his bag. It was amazing, and he opened the box, and I see all the work. Oh, great. Great, 18 volume, black and gold. They were so old, yellow pages. They were so dusty and smelly. It smells so good. It smells like spiders been having sex all over them.

It's so amazing. I don't know if you know that smell. That is so good. It's such a good smell. And I was like, yes, I got the box. I go home. I didn't even open it. And he told me to promise him not to post it on the internet

because he does not want to get in trouble. And I was like, sure, I will. wait until the end because there is a thread on the internet where we post about our halls and usually it's a picture of banned books so I waited a few days later I go in and I wanted to see what everyone has been posting what they have been reading and everyone has been posting the same books I just bought five hundred dollar for apparently that here it became available but he took advantage of how much I wanted to get banned books. And I honestly did not want to read them anymore. They're not

hot anymore. They were available at the normal bookstores where you buy the habit trap and all those normal books. I wanted to get banned books. That's what I always wanted. Thank you so much for listening. That was Mohamed bin Kulayf. Originally from Riyadh, Mohammed lives in Montrose, where he helps first-time buyers navigate Houston's wild real estate ride,

a former bartender and newspaper writer. He loves stories, loud dinners, and the quiet magic of helping people feel like they finally belong. At the Moth, we think that storytelling is, important that it connects people that stories should be heard it's kind of our whole deal and this band books week we hope you'll reflect on how easy it is for

stories to be unheard as a writer myself I first learned about the power of language as a young child I immigrated to the United States at 10 years old and my father stayed behind in the Dominican Republic this was back in the late 80s when no one in my immigrant family had long-distance calling in our Washington Heights neighborhood of New York City. Once a month, my family and I would walk a few blocks to the closest calling center and call my father. Each of us kids only had a couple of minutes to speak, and I felt this incredible obligation to make those few words count, to help my father, who had never traveled to the United States, understand this new place,

see it alongside with me to help me make sense of it. Over the years, I think about those conversations as the first seeds of my passion for storytelling. Those brief and silly stories I told my dad had the power to collapse the thousands of miles between us, make me feel closer to him, find my way during uncertain times. When I think about the books that have done the same things for me, made me feel closer to fictional characters and their circumstances, helped me to see the world in uncertain terms.

Many top the list of most banned books. Here I'm speaking about Maya Angelou's, I Know What the Caged Bird Sings, Harper Lees to Kill a Muckinbird, Alice Walker's The Color Purple, Tony Morrison's The Song of Solomon, and Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale. These books, among so many others, have moved me from a space of awe and contemplation toward inspiration, knowing that the writer's job is to inspire in our readers' questions that may lead to a desire for last. change. What could be more dangerous to those who seek to silence us than the certainty that together we are a chorus, that together we could change the world? We'll be back in a moment with another story. Our common nature is a musical journey with Yo-Yo Ma and me, Anna Gonzalez, through this complicated country. We go into caves, onto boats and up mountain trails, to meet people, hear their stories, their poetry, and, of course, play some music, all to reconnect to nature and get closer to the things we're missing.

Listen to Our Common Nature from WNYC wherever you get podcasts. Welcome back. Toby Price told our next story at a Jackson, Mississippi main stage, where the theme of the night was holding on and letting go. Here's Toby, Life at the Month. I was spinning the rack, looking through the comic books that I wanted to buy before my dad paid for the gas. And he walked up to me and he said, what did you got there? And I said, well, I got a few books. I can't decide on which ones to get. And he said, get them all.

Because, see, when I was little, I used to think that reading was boring. but it turns out it wasn't boring I just needed to practice and my dad figured out to get me to practice he needed to give me the books that I wanted to read Captain America the Avengers Spider-Man y'all I love Spider-Man spider-man spider-man was a nerd just like me he was smart I was smart he married way out of his league so did I he could climb one I tried too many times and it didn't work. But all of that reading and all that practicing helped me become a better reader. It helped me decide what I wanted to do when I got, you know, grow up.

I wanted to be a superhero. But sadly, I don't think I would look as good in the tights as they do. So I did the next best thing. If I wanted to be a hero, I decided to go to school and become a school teacher. And like most folks, as soon as I graduated school, there I was, running a local restaurant here in town. I enjoyed it. I had regulars who would come see me every day, and I had one regular in particular who showed up one day with a friend. And she and the friend started speaking to me, and it turns out the friend was a principal at a nearby elementary school.

She said, I have a job for you. It's with the first grade class. I said, well, hmm, okay. I did all my training with fourth grade. She said, that's not going to be a problem. All you have to promise me is that you just won't quit. And I went and met the class. And after spending about 10 minutes with these friends,

I learned what happened to the first two teachers. Yep. They were, now I would call it challenging. But every day when I walked into that room, I wasn't going to quit, and I thought about what my second grade teacher used to tell us that everybody has something to contribute. And I thought that about my class as well. They taught me so many things. They taught me to be patient, and they taught me to most of all see the value in every child. And I didn't know it at the time, but they were shaping the type of teacher I would become.

but most importantly, the type of parent I would become later on. Fast forward, about seven or eight years in time, and I have one, two, three kids now. My two oldest are autistic. They were diagnosed at an early age. My oldest is nonverbal. My son, my middle child, he's a little more verbal. We weren't planning on having a third, and I asked God, you're giving us a third child? Give me one that can talk, God.

And he said, all right, watch this. and we always tell folks she was four going on 40 and i was going to do with them the same thing that my dad did with me and i was going to share some of my favorite books with them so with my son we got out the spider-man comics and he loved wonder woman hmm with my youngest she was a reader i got out harry potter and she loved reading about the titanic and war war war two and non-fiction we did find some books that we really enjoyed together I had heard about a book on Twitter where I talked to a bunch of my teacher friends, and it was called I Need a New But by Don McMillan.

It was a picture book, four kids, and I found a copy at the local Walmart, and I read it to my kids, and they loved it every second of it. I need a new butt, followed by I broke my butt. My butt is noisy. Yes, my personal favorite. and most recently we were at the Walmart and we found a copy of my butt is so silly and we all kind of clamored over who was going to get to grab it off the shelf and read it first and we got in the car and we read it on the way home and we laughed and we giggled because kids need those silly books those funny books that's what hooks them into being readers and becoming readers well let's fast

forward from that time to read across a miracle week dr susa's birthday i was an assistant principal in a school and my boss asked me to set up a Zoom meeting with 12 second grade classes and a principal of a nearby building who would be their principal next year. I got you, no problem. So all 12 classes logged into the Zoom and I was the host and I looked at my watch and our guest reader was not there. I text her, no answer. I called nothing. I told my boss what had happened, and she said, you go ahead and read. So I turned them around and looked in my shelf, and there was. I needed to hook these kids. I needed them to laugh. I was going to grab. I need a new butt by Don McMillan. And I did. I went through, and I showed them the pictures

in the book, and I read the story to them, and they howled when they saw the little boy slide down the banisher and think that he broke his butt because there was a crack in it. They giggled. And y'all, they were rolling when he thought about, what if I had a rocket butt that could blast me into outer space? After I finished the story, I saw some of my friends in the hall when they come up and they said, Mr. Price, we love that story. Thank you so much. It made me feel good.

Made my heart grow nine sizes that day. And then I was called to the principal's office. Even when you're a grown-up, that's no fun getting called to the principal's office. And my principal, she sold me, Mr. Price. We have to talk about that book that you read today. I don't know if it was the most appropriate book. Some parents may complain. And I said, well, that's not a problem.

I'm so sorry. If someone complains, I'm more than happy to talk to them and I apologize. And she said, okay, okay, we'll have to talk about it some more later. I said, yes, ma'am. I left her office, and about 15 minutes later, I got called back to her office because the superintendent wanted to see me at the district office. And I drove to the district office on the other side of town and walked into the building in the conference room with the superintendent and assistant superintendent, and y'all, they let me have it because I chose this book. That day, they sent me home, suspended with pay, pending investigation, because parents are going to call.

Two days later, they called me back out to the district office. Y'all, and I was a nervous wreck anyway because I'm just talking about it. I've never been in trouble like that before with these folks ever. They called me back to the district office, and they came to a decision and said, Mr. Price, we just can't get past this. I just can't get past why you chose to read this book. It was poor professional judgment, and because of which, we're terminating your contract effective immediately. And I froze. I'm a dad of kids with autism.

We don't sleep at night. We just worry with our eyes closed on a normal. day. You know, how am I going to pay for therapy, medicine, bill, luxuries like food, lights and water? They told me you could sign this resignation and we can part ways, or you go home and think about it and decide if you want to appeal this. You'll have to find an attorney and we can start an appeal process and they left me in the room. And I called my wife. I told my wife what had happened. And she said, We've been married 21 years.

If you were wrong, I would tell you you were wrong, but you weren't wrong. So you're not signing that resignation. Thank you. She said, pick your head up high, don't let them see you cry, and walk right out of that building, and come home. And I did just that. I picked my head up high, didn't let them see me cry, and drove right down the street to the Dollar General for a of little Debbie Zebra cakes. That's true.

If you're going to eat your emotions, there's no better way than Little Debbie Zebra cakes. Well, after that, my wife and I found an attorney, and we began the appeal process. Y'all, I've never been in trouble before, so this was all new territory for me. But day one of the appeal went a little bit like this. We had an expert witness come to say

that reading kids' silly books is good pedagogy or teaching. they objected. We have evidence of other books, objection. We have affidavits from other educators, objection. See a pattern? I learned some interesting things that day that I did not know, like the superintendent, had no idea who Shell Silverstein was.

Had never heard of no David, had never heard of a Caldecott Award. Or worst off, and this one, my wife grabbed my leg and she'd never heard of Captain Underpants. And most importantly, that day I learned that not one parent complaint was submitted into evidence. Not one. Well, the second day of the appeal was a lot more arduous than I had expected.

It was my turn to testify, and they got to ask me questions, and they all but accused me of being a liar, a thief, and a pedophile. It was a terrible, terrible day. The whole process is still ongoing. And just stopping and thinking about it now makes me really sad. I had a friend who came to my house and told me, dude, after what happened, I took Walter the farting dog off my shelf and took it home. He's a second grade teacher. I know. And it made me think that, wow, this is a big deal because teachers like him and teachers like me, they're not going to read those fun, silly books to kids like we want them to.

And kids need those books, not just because they're hilarious. No, if you can hook a child with the funny and the silly books and make them think, wow, I want to read that, they'll stick around and read more and find out all of the wonderful things that books can be besides just funny and silly. you know some days as a teacher you feel like captain america you're up there smiling high-fiving and changing lives and other days you're like peter parker sitting in that tiny broken-down apartment

bandaging your wounds literally and metaphorically and emotionally wondering is this all worth it am i even making a difference why do i do this and you do it because it is the hardest job in the world and it's the best job in the world and now while we wait for a decision I'm grateful that I get to sit at home with my three friends we're reading some Wonder Woman

some Titanic and my oldest has developed a love for Harry Potter Lemony Snicket and Spider-Man and I get to share those books with those kids today thank you That was Toby Price.

Toby is a children's book writer and a former teacher and elementary principal. He is a father of three beautiful kids and has been married to his lovely wife, Leah, for 21 years. He lives with his family in Mississippi. This case is still ongoing and was heard by the Mississippi State Supreme Court on September 18th. That brings us to the end of our episode. Thanks so much for joining us. From all of us here at the month, we hope that wherever you are, you're able to read and tell whatever stories you want.

Clavis Natera is a writer whose latest novel, The Grand Paloma Resort, is available wherever you get your books. Toby Price's story was directed by Meg Bowles. This episode of the Moth podcast was produced by Sarah Austin-Jonesse, Sarah Jane Johnson, and me, Mark Salinger. The rest of the Moth's leadership team includes Sarah Haberman, Christina Norman, Marina Clucay, Jennifer Hickson, Jordan Cardonale, Kate Tellers, Suzanne Rust, and Patricia Orenia. The Moth podcast is presented by Odyssey.

Special thanks to their executive producer, Leah Reese Dennis. All Moth stories are true, as remembered by their story. storytellers. For more about our podcast, information on pitching your own story, and everything else, go to our website, the moth.org.