The Moth - Presenting Office Ladies: Work Friendship

Episode Date: June 19, 2026

Today we’re bringing you an episode from our friends, Office Ladies hosts Jenna Fischer and Angela Kinsey. In honor of Best Friends Day, we are handing the mic over to the duo who turned a "work friendship" into a lifelong sisterhood. Jenna and Angela reflect on the invisible strings that connect us to our people. Find Office Ladies wherever you get podcasts. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're sharing an episode from our friends over at Office Ladies. Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey spent years playing characters who weren't exactly best friend material to one another on screen. But off-camera, they built a bond that has spanned decades. In this episode, they're honoring the history that shaped them, and the future they're still building together. You can find Office Ladies everywhere you get your podcasts, and stay right here for more from Jenna and Angela. I'm Jenna Fisher, and I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together, and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you.

Each week, we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive interviews, behind-the-scenes details, and lots of BFF stories. We're the Office Lady 6.0. Hello. Hi there. Welcome to Office Ladies 6.0. Today we have a really special episode. I know we say that a lot, but I love this one. We've always wanted to do an episode around Best Friendship.

And this is an honor of Best Friends Day. That is June 8th. Yes. National Best Friends Day is this Sunday, June 8th, and we thought it would be fun to celebrate. So we asked you all to write in about your best friends, and we're going to share some of your letters. They were so wonderful to read. If you want to be in a good mood, they should put together a book of just people sharing a story about their best friend. Yeah.

Because it made me so happy. And also, Angela did a little deep dive on office friendships. But I thought I could kick things off with some stats about Best Friends Day. You know I love a stat. Did you know there are actually two best friend days? No. One is national and one is international. Okay. That's always a little confusing, you know, if you're on the social media and you do the hashtag and you see people doing National Best Friends Day or whatever it is, National Cat Day. You did international and then you're like, oh, crap, which one is it?

Well, I'll tell you now. Okay. This Sunday, June 8th, is National Best Friends Day. And that was established in 1935 by our United States Congress. How about that? I didn't even know that they were the ones who did that. Yeah. They wanted to honor the bonds of friendship and recognize the positive impact that friends have on our lives. And they chose June 8th because it is generally a time of good weather across the whole country, making it a pleasant time of year to spend time outdoors with your friends. So I think they're wanting you to get outside, everybody. And do something with your BFF. Exactly. Then in 2011, the United Nations declared July. 30th as International Friendship Day. And this was to recognize the importance of friendships in promoting peace and understanding among communities and nations. Well, I like both of those. And then, you know, there's a lot of ways you can celebrate, best friends day this Sunday. But Cassie, I think you would like this way. The New York Public Library made a list of 15 novels about

friendship to read with your bestie. That sounds awesome. Yes. They said these novels feature a range of friendship stories from lighthearted and affirming to explorations of how friendships can break apart and come back together. So we can put a link to them in stories. Yes, please. Mm-hmm. Well, you know, it's my belief that one of the reasons the office was such a huge success and continues to be is because at its core, it's centered around friendships. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think maybe Michael said it best.

The people that you work with are just, when you get down to it, you are very best friends. Aw. And you know, according to the Internet, and there are a lot, a lot of articles about the friendships that are on the office. But here is one that lists the 10 best friendships, in their opinion. Ready? Number 10, Aaron and Phyllis. Oh, yes. Yeah.

They were very sweet. Yeah. Number nine is the only threesome. Oscar, Angela, and Kevin, best friends. Sure. Number eight, Jim and Michael. Number seven, Erin and Nelly. Number six, Jim and Pam. They did start as good friends. Sure. Number five, Phyllis and Stanley. I mean, come on. Yeah, right. Number four, Phyllis and Angela were listed as friends. Yes. Huh. I know. Maybe more like frenemies for those two, a little bit. Number three, Dwight and Pam. Pam, which I love. Dwight calls Pam his best friend. Yes. Number two, Michael and Dwight. And I would say yes. I mean,

that's who Dwight wanted to be his best man. Exactly. Number one on the list of best friends at the office. Any guesses? No. Who's left? Is it Kelly and Ryan? That's the only person I could think of. No. This is that everyone unanimously online said the number one best friendship on the office. Michael and Holly? No, but that's good, Sam. That's really good. Jim and Dwight. I know.

That's what they said. They had their ups and downs, but in the end, you know, Jim says, oh, my gosh, remember that line? He's like, I can't believe I'm saying this. I miss Dwight. I mean, they sort of had this weird dude on and off again friendship. But this is up for discussion because I feel. like they left a few really big ones off the list. I think Andy and Daryl became good friends.

Pam and Michael. Yes. Pam and Michael. Thank you. Yes. And then, you know, I do like that they say Angela, Oscar and Kevin, but I think Angela and Oscar had their own true friendship. Yes, I agree. And then I would say they left off one. If they're going to put Phyllis and Angela on there, I think there's a frenemies category for Angela and Pam. But see what I mean? There's so many, like friendships that grow over the years of this show and people watch that and they feel it. And I think it's so wonderful that one of the biggest takeaways from watching the office are these friendships that people connect to. And the friendships represent the very wide range of friendships.

This is true. Which includes, I think, the category of frenemies or it includes like you're sort of like, how did this person become my friend? But they are, you know, like it kind of covers all the different categories. Are the friend that drives you crazy and you prank, but you end up planning their bachelor party. Exactly. Well, we got a letter, speaking of frenemies that I wanted to read. It's from Allison S in Edmonton, Canada, who said, my best friend is named Lauren.

We worked together as dance teachers. When she was first hired, I did not like her. She was given some classes I wanted to be teaching, and I felt an instant. rivalry. Luckily, with time, her charm cleared away any thoughts of rivalry and forced me to admit she was awesome, and I was thrilled when it seemed we could instead become friends. Our friendship took off when we helped each other box dye our hair in her bathtub and realized we both did a terrible job. Oh my gosh. We had splotchy hair color for weeks, and our connection solidified when we took a work trip to Disney World and were paired together for everything from rides to

sharing a bed. When she got married in a small family-only ceremony, I was asked to be there as the photographer. I have zero photography experience and felt so lucky to be included in the day. Her husband agreed that there was no way I could miss it. They've moved to Seattle now and while the distance is so hard, we used to live across the street from each other. We're still best friends and have video chats and voice memos to tide us over in between visits. She's changed my life forever. We both love office ladies and have frequently compared our friendship to Jenna and Angela. Aw. I love that they started kind of as frenemies.

Yeah. I love their whole story about them dyeing their hair and it being all patchy. Yes. I also love that they stay in touch with voice memos and video chat because there's been many times in our lives in our friendship when we weren't in the same city. And we did that. And I knew your whole life. Yeah. Because we were so dedicated to sharing.

and keeping each other in the loop. And that's so special. So cool. I loved it. Well, up next, I have a fun thing for us to do, and you guys can do this with us. I'll put a link in stories. But BuzzFeed did an online quiz to determine, quote, who would be your best friend at the office if you worked at Dunder Mifflin?

Oh. So, all right. How do we do it? Well, everyone, go to their phones. I am texting you a link. We all have to do it individually, and then we have to share our. answer. I'm going to read the questions that we're all going to do out loud so people will know. Okay. First one, what do you do in your free time? The choices are self-defense lessons,

hang out with friends, doodle at a cafe, illegal stuff, cook, perfect my comedy routine, shop or yoga class. Okay. I did it. Okay. Next one. Ready? How would you describe yourself? talented, above average, relaxed, inspirational, cool, resourceful, sweet, smart. Okay. All right. What is your place in the office? Are you the moral support, the queen, the best, the boss, the prankster, the snacker, the comedian, the glue? Okay, Angela, I need to know what you're pressing.

Why? Because I just need to know the answer. I need to know your assessment of yourself on this question. question. Okay. I would say I'm the glue. Sam, Cassie, how do we feel about her answer? I put I'm the glue. I put I'm the glue. Oh my gosh, I'm the queen. But Angela, I had you as the snacker. Oh, you could have put you for moral support. Thank you. I would have thought of you as moral support or the snacker, but I've decided to be the queen. That's good. Well, the queen and three glues is Is that how we do office lady?

That keeps us all going. Okay. What's your dream job? Model, actor, multi-millionaire, athlete, CEO, painter, entrepreneur, or vocalist. Okay. I put entrepreneur. Are we sharing now? Why not?

Okay. It makes it more interesting, I think. Okay. Sam, what did you put? Athlete. Cassie. Athlete. I put athlete.

Who am I? I am the outlier of this group. Favorite subject. Drama, robotics, physical education, art, after-school clubs, school question mark, band and lunch. I'm going to put drama. I put drama as well. Art. I put drama. Okay.

I like it. Pick a hobby. Internet trolling, comedy, competitive eating, running, programming, and programming. debate, volunteering, yoga. I put internet trolling. Oh, Jenna. I'm kidding. I put yoga.

Oh, my gosh. I found out who I am. Oh, my God. I found out who I am. I found out who I am. Okay. I kind of already knew who I was going to be paired with, and it makes complete sense. Okay.

Go, Sam. I am with Pam. Me and Pam could take art lessons together. We're both kind and have a great sense of humor. I like that. Sure. Cassie, who are you? Michael. You and Michael probably met at an improv class, which you both failed. You love to make people laugh.

You both failed. We definitely did. Mike doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe I hit a wrong button. Jim. Your gym? It says you and Jim would be best buddies. You love to prank your coworkers. I do not. You hate pranks. I hate pranks. And you like to relax with your family at the end of the day. That part's true. Well, and you are the likable every man. of the office ladies group, Angela. Well, okay. So that tracks. Guess who I'm friends with. Wait, wait. Brian, entrepreneur?

I'm with Jan. Oh. I'll take it. I'll take it. That's a good one. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. That was so fun.

Okay, I'll put the quiz in our stories, too. Well, listen, before we go to break, I wanted to share something. This is a personal share. I want to share that I am on the cover of, USA Today's and Media Planet's Future of Cancer Care campaign. It's like a little magazine, you know, that they put inside the newspapers. I'm on the cover. Wow. It's in honor of National Cancer Survivors Day, which was this past Sunday, June 1st. And I spoke about my journey and I do that really just in hopes that it might bring comfort to others. Yeah. And they asked me for a photo for the cover. And I didn't

know what to give because I haven't like done a photo shoot since my hair fell out and it started growing back. I did a picture that Josh took of me when I announced, but I didn't have any other pictures. But then I remembered I did have this one picture that I took was when I was doing my campaign for screening time off. I pulled the photographer aside and I said, I'm getting my port out in two weeks. And I have not taken a picture with it because it's like a thing. I feel conflicted about it. I had this very, like love-hate relationship with this port. It's visible, yeah.

And it's not gruesome. It's not gruesome, but it's definitely you know that there's something there. And your shirts covered it, but it would be visible to the eye. Yes. It's like a bump under the skin. Yes. And so I showed it and he took a photo of me. And that's the picture that I shared with them.

And it was an important thing for me to have. And then it became kind of an important thing for me to share. I think, I hope that anyone who is going through that will just maybe, I don't know, find something in that picture. Yeah. You know, I was with you when you had it removed and that was emotional day for you. That was such a book into such a journey you had been on. Yeah. And I think that's wonderful that you shared that, Jenna. Yeah, I mean, that's a nice share on her best friend's day. Lee was away shooting his movie in Oklahoma, but they said they could schedule me to get my port out. And, Angela, I said to you, I said, well, I guess I'm going to have to put this off for like two months.

I'm going to have to have this port in me because Lee's not home. Yeah. And you said, oh, no, sweetie. No, we're getting that done. She's like, I've listened to you for one year about this thing. I will get you to the hospital. and I had other moms who each took my kids after school and let them spend the night so that I could recover. And it was just, you know, again, friends coming together.

The community of friendship. Yeah. Who made that happen for me. And now it's out. And I have this, I have a scar, which I knew I would have. And I assumed that it wouldn't bother me. I thought, I don't care. I have tons of scars from my surgery, from under my arm, you know, around my breast.

I have scars. And none of them bother me. So I just assumed that the port scar wouldn't bother me. And I don't like it. You don't like it. I don't. And some people will get like a tattoo over it. Have you considered getting a tattoo?

I don't want a tattoo over it. I feel like that's just going to make me see it more somehow. But you did consider getting a tattoo. I did consider getting a tattoo. Not there, but just to sort of like in honor of this experience. Yes. But then I got a fake tattoo for Lee's movie. and I didn't like my fake tattoo.

Like, I liked it, but I didn't like that there was like something that kept catching my eye. What was your tattoo going to be? Well, I thought that I might want to get a little drawing of the antique bell that I rang after I finished chemo. Oh, okay, I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Or a butterfly. These were my two options.

But I'm getting neither, as it turns out. And I'm also not getting a tattoo over my port scar. But yeah, it's just that like all the other scars, I can avoid them somehow visually. Like I don't see them. But this one, every time I get out of the shower, there's a porty scar. And then like I wanted to wear a sundress when we went to Hawaii. And it's like, there it is. And I just let it hang out.

Like I'm not going to like change how I dress or change anything because it's there. But it bumps me. And I don't know. Maybe that'll go away eventually. And I know that a lot of people. people try to pump me up and they're like, it's your battle scar. You're a warrior. Yeah. And I'm trying to frame it that way in my head. Mm-hmm. You know, I just think it's new. And you don't love change.

And you need a little bit of time. I guess I do. And you'll have time with it and it'll be fine. Yes. You'll get used to it. Well, anyway, you can look for the magazine inside of USA today. It came out in Chicago this past weekend. It's going nationwide this coming weekend, but you can also find it online. We'll put a link to the article in our show notes. And Angela, will you swipe it up in our stories? Of course. I also have it linked in my bio on Instagram.

So if you have someone going through a cancer journey, maybe it'll be of service to them. Well, I just love all of that. And you know what? We're going to take a break. And when we come back, we are going to share our very first friendship stories and some of yours. Yes. Well, we're back, and I'm going to go first. I'm going to talk about my very first best friend. She's still a dear friend of mine to this day. Her name is Carinza, and her mom, Karina, and my mom were best friends in Indonesia. They played tennis together,

and we were always at each other's houses. She has a big family with lots of older siblings, and there was just always so much hubbub in her house, and I just loved it. And her mom, Karina, is Dutch, and she introduced me to my favorite thing, which is mayonnaise with French fries. Oh, yeah. Do you guys eat mayonnaise on your French fries? Yeah, absolutely. I do ranch.

Ranch. Well, yeah. Okay. Pretty close. But she, anyway, isn't that just such a funny thing that I remember? Like, she'd probably be like, Angela, I introduce you to so many foods. But you remember mayonnaise and French fries. And Krince's dad is American.

He was working overseas like my dad. And we were so tiny when we met. I was a toddler. Corinza's two years younger than me. She was just like a little thing in like diapers. And I don't have a memory of my childhood that doesn't include her in that time. Wow. Wow.

It was like she was just always part of my life because I met her when I was so little. Was she in Indonesia the whole time you were or did one of you who moved away first? I moved away first. Okay. Yeah. And we're so good friends to this day. We check in with each other a lot. We text each other.

She is a librarian, and she's been a librarian for over 20 years now at a middle school in Austin, Texas. She is so smart and so funny and just an amazing person. And I'm so thankful that I have this childhood friend from such a special time in my life that I'm still in touch with. You know, because when I started middle school, we moved around a lot, and I really just hold close. those friendships from back then. So shout out to Corinca. Well, a lot of the letters we got were from people whose first best friend is still their best friend.

Yeah. You know what? I want to read one from Alana D. in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. She wrote in and said, my best friend Cassie and I met when we were three. She says, I remember the day. I was new to daycare and always sad when my mother left. Cassie started after me, and I remember her first day. I knew then that it would all be okay.

We've weathered so much all over the world. We've noticed how our conversations and how we care for one another have changed over the years. In our teens, we vetted each other's crushes. In our 20s, we nursed hangovers and traveling bugs. In our 30s and 40s, we took mom getaways and talked about our aches and pains as we were aging. Most recently, Cassie came to Pittsburgh from Boston after I was diagnosed with breast cancer to be with me for the first whirlwind day of appointments. Her presence, and us still being able to be us, turned a potentially terrible day into something beautiful. She later came to help me

recover after my bilateral mastectomy and spent days caring for me. Her family and boss okayed this time away, and I am grateful for how others also honor and give space for our friendship. We are soulmates, and I know we can face anything that life brings together. Today was my last round of chemotherapy, and we are already planning our next adventure. Oh my gosh. That's so sweet. Yes. Alana, thank you so much for sharing that. What a wonderful friendship. Well, I love that letter. I love their friendship. I actually pulled a letter from Carly B. in Newark, Texas, and it is, again, about a friendship that started when they were very young. Here's what Carly said.

Carly said, my best friend London and I have been besties since we were seven years old. We are now both in our 30s and living 800 miles apart, but are still bonded together as if we live right down the road from each other. My husband has my caller ID as light of my life, and he has London's caller ID as light of my wife. That's really cute. We are incredibly different people with incredibly different opinions on literally everything, but we are also the exact same person.

Somehow it makes sense. We have this bit that's been running for so many years now, and it's hilarious every time it happens. I am a notoriously clumsy person and will drop food on myself at least once a day. If we're together, London will see that I've dropped food on myself and immediately smudge a bite of her food on her clothing in solidarity with me. and we laugh until we can't breathe every time it happens. We talk all the time about the similarities between our friendship and y'alls. We love y'all and the podcast so much.

Thanks for all you ladies do. I love that she smudges food on her. I know. Isn't that so fun? That is so fun. Well, Jenna, do you have a share about your very first best friend? I do. And, you know, I lost touch with my very first best friend. I don't know her anymore, but her,

name was Beth, and she lived up the street from me. We just lived in the same cul-de-sac. Sure. And we were inseparable. And I loved going over to her house. Her mom would not let her eat sugar stuff, like sugar snacks or junk food. But she had this bowl of sugar-free candy lozenges. And I thought they were like the best thing on the planet. Isn't it funny, the little things you remember? Mm-hmm. Yes. But we would just, you know, we would ride bikes and do things in the neighborhood. And I loved her so much. And then her family moved.

Oh. And I didn't get an address for her. It was sort of very sudden. Yes. I mean, this is sort of part of our generation is that there weren't ways to stay in touch the same way there are now. And I think because my mom and Corinz's mom were such good friends. Yes. That that was the bridge for us because we were little.

We were young. I didn't, there was no social media. There was no cell phones. You know, you moved. You got a new phone number, you know, all those things. Well, this was unfortunately like a common theme for me in that I would bond with someone. And then their family would move. So Beth was my friend and we were, I don't know, like, I feel like we were like six, seven, eight years old.

And then I just like didn't have a great friend for years. And then I became friends with this guy. Lauren, who also lived a little further in my neighborhood, but who I met at school. And we became besties, like, inseparable. I was so excited to have a friend again. Yeah. And then she moved away. Oh, no.

But at least this time, we were older. We were in middle school when she moved away. And I just was devastated. My mom recognized it. I did a trip where I flew by myself to see her in Boston. And she flew out to see me in Missouri once. But then again, like, kind of. after that, we sort of lost touch when we were in high school. And so, you know, I've had kind of

throughout my life, I've had these people who kind of like come and go. And now that I'm talking about it, I'm like, wow, I wonder how that affected me. But I did have a very best friend in high school and then one in college. And I sort of like get a best friend for each season of my life. Yeah. But, and you're the one that stuck. I mean, I'm still friends with my high school and college. But, like, you know, yeah, I've also gone through periods of my life where I didn't really have a best friend, like a true, like, tell you everything, best friend. Yeah. I've had both. Well, I think we just met at our perfect time in our life for each other, you know?

Yeah. And now we're older and we are in charge of, like, all of our life, you know? Yeah. And we're not being moved by someone else and we can stay in touch. And I'm so proud of our friendship, and I tell this to people all the time that ask me about our friendship is that, you know, like any other relationship in your life, to be a good friend, you have to put the time in. Yeah. And even if distance happens or life happens, be like, all right, we have a phone date to catch up. And you just like, you work for the friendship.

Well, both people, Alana and Carly, in both of their friendships, there was a move. Yeah, you know. Yeah. Sam, Cassie, do you have, like, very first best friends that you remember from growing up? Yeah, my best friend's name was Amber, and we would play in this canyon behind her house. And we were just totally, like, animal lovers and bonded over just being out in the woods. She meant a lot to me. I love that.

Are you still in touch with her? Kind of, like, on Instagram. Sure. I moved to a different town when I was like 11. And when we came back, we were just totally different people at that point. Yeah. My childhood best friend, his name was Jared. This is in Watertown, Wisconsin.

He used to ride our bikes around until the streetlights came out. Then it was time to come home. Sure. I lost talk of him. He went into the military around September 11th and isn't really online. But I should look him up. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that's the thing, too. I feel like it might be easier to find people now. I have a very dear friend, Kate, that was my middle school buddy, that we stayed in touch for years. I went to Australia to see her. She came to the U.S. to see me. And then one day, like, the card I sent her came back. And I, like, haven't been able to find her. So I love this idea of finding people that meant something to us and reconnecting.

Well, we had another category of letters that we got from people. A lot of people sent Instagram. of how the office brought them together into their friendship. I really loved this one from Becca M in Edmonds, Washington, who said, I, like the both of you, have the most amazing best friend. Her name is Lisa and we have been BFFs for 15 years. We met in college and pretty quickly became inseparable. She has been a supportive and loving person that I can always turn to. She even supported me and my own breast cancer scare with love and laughter. We both have loved the office since day one. In college, we watched episodes together and totally fan-gurled over the romance

of Jim and Pam, Angela and Dwight, and in my opinion, couples' goals, Phyllis and Bob Vance Fance Refrigeration. And then she goes on to explain that for her bachelorette party, her best friend threw her an office-themed girls weekend. They got an Airbnb, and she decorated with a sign that said, it is your bachelorette party with half blown up balloons. They had fake tattoos that said that's what she said and also the face of prison, Mike. And then she just said, I couldn't think of a better prompt to email about because I love the friendship between you two. I always feel like I'm hearing a conversation between Lisa and myself when I tune in for the next installment of Office Ladies. And I hope everyone out there has their own Lisa because she's pretty effing amazing.

Thanks for giving me an excuse to brag about my bestie. Aw, I love that. I love it when people have office-themed parties. It just delights me. They have office-themed baby showers, Bachelorette weddings, and of course birthdays. Yes. Isn't that so fun?

It's so adorable. Jenna and I gave Sam and Cassie each a birthday card that had the office ladies party planning committee on the front, and we cut out little pictures of their faces. I put him on Phyllis. We found a picture where they were both leaning the same way Phyllis is leaning. Anyway, it just tickles me, and I love that the show still brings people together. Our next section is about best friendships in movies.

I looked up the top 15 best friendship movies, and Jenna, in the top 15. By the way, this made Top 15, Top 10 of several lists like this online. Okay. Is a movie that you and I went and saw in the The Thirteen. theater together on a BFF date. We did? Yeah. Oh, wait, I think I know.

It's the one with the pants. Sisterhood of the traveling pants. Yes, directed by our very own Ken Quappas. We went to the theater to support the movie. I remember. Yeah. Oh, it was so good. And it's such a good BFF movie.

I know. And can you believe that movie date of ours was 20 years ago? What? Yes. Lady, I looked it up. Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants is having its 20th year anniversary this year. Oh, my God. I know, it's crazy.

It's also out on digital. Maybe we should watch it together again. Yes. 20 years of friendship. 20 years of friendship of those pants just traveling away. Traveling the world. Lady, I have my blow-up movie screen. We could do like an outdoor summer movie night and watch Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.

Oh, that would be so fun. We would have to take a picture together and send it to Ken. We would. Okay, so that one made almost all of the list, but we were also curious to hear from everyone about what their best friendship movies are. I have two favorite best friendship movies. Okay. My second favorite that used to be my first favorite is Thelma and Louise. I love the friendship between these two women and this movie.

That was number one on this top best friendship movie list. Well, I believe it because I remember seeing it when it came out, and it was kind of the first time. I had seen female friendship portrayed that way in a movie. And it was like very, it hit me. Yeah. Like it definitely, like she has this speech at the end of the movie, Gina Davis's character where she just says to Susan Sarandon, and she's like, hey, I just want you to know, like, I can't go back.

Yeah. To my old life. Like, something has shifted in me. Yeah. And Susan Sarandon is like, oh, honey, I know. And it's just like, it gives me chills. It's just like this journey. they go on and they are changed forever. And I felt like when I saw the movie, it kind of changed

something in me about women, supporting women. It was just so beautiful. Yeah. And then my favorite best friendship movie, though, is Muriel's wedding. Oh, yeah. I love it so much. And it's similar. It's similar. It's just like a movie about best friends. And they're so great. And they have each other's back. And I just love it so much. Sam, Cassie, do you have a favorite best friendship movie? I've talked about this movie before, but Fottoms is just so good about like pure women and being gross and, you know, just stumbling through high school together, but coming together, I think it's just really beautiful. Their comedic comedy together in that movie is so infectious. Like, I could watch four hours of them. Same. I have to put that on my list. I haven't seen it. It's so good. Okay.

I would say either in Bruges, have you seen that one, Paul and Ferrell and Brendan Gleason. That's a great one. there's this movie, it's about four really good friends. One of them has to return a ring, and his three friends, help him. It takes like nine hours, but it's really, really good.

It's really, really good. And they have multiple goodbyes. Oh, they do. So many. You love friends. Well, I'll have to check that out. Well, one of my favorite friendship movies, and I didn't think about that one, Sam,

but that's right up there. But mine is actually Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice. Okay. It just had its 20-year anniversary, and it was re-released in the theaters, and I went with my friend. And it was so great. I have a friend that every year we meet and watch Pride and Prejudice. Her name is Tess.

I just, I love this tradition that we have. But in the movie, there is a friendship by love. It's between the characters Charlotte Lucas and Elizabeth Bennett. And, you know, they're these young girls, and they've grown up together. Now they're having to figure out the next chapter of their life, marriage, all that, and they can laugh and be silly, but then they can also get very real with one another. And I think that is true friendship when you just have to be real and be honest and you work through it and you get to the other side. And Charlotte has a speech that I love. She has just

accepted the hand in marriage from Mr. Collins, who, you know, everyone thinks Mr. Collins is a bit of an idiot. And she goes to tell Elizabeth this. I saw Joe Wright interviewed about this speech and how it came about. And it's so interesting. I loved it so much. I want you to hear it. Oh, okay. Off with Charlotte Lucas.

She's considered like the ultimate millennial in an attitude because of her line. I'm 27 years old. I've no money and no prospects. I'm already a burden to my parents. And I'm frightened. I've been told that. And it reminds me of that, you know, of that. of that scene being written.

Deborah Margik wrote the screenplay and did an amazing, amazing job. And then we asked Emma Thompson to help with a little bit of the dialogue. And I went around to her house, very nervous with my little briefcase, and we walked up onto Hampstead Heath, and she said, sit down,

take out your notebook, and take notes. So as she improvised scenes, I wrote them down and that was one of the things that she improvised on that hill on Hampstead Heath and I remember her just coming out with those lines and me scribbling them down and then her ending with

don't judge me Lizzie, don't you dare judge me. Don't judge me, Lizzie. Don't you dare judge me? Wow. Isn't that brilliant? Emma Thompson. improvised that speech. Anyway, I'm such a fan of hers, but I just loved that creative collaboration that Joe Wright brought into this movie, but I loved that moment in Charlotte and Lizzie's

friendship. And then they got through it, you know? And they were there for each other as their lives were changing, and so much of it was beyond their control, and they were still there for each other. Anyway, I just, I love that movie. I love that friendship. I've never seen that movie. What? What? It's my favorite movie. I rewatch it all the time. Like, if I can't sleep, I put on pride and prejudice. It's your edge. It's you're the edge. It is. I can't believe you've never seen it. I've never seen it. I should see it, I guess. Yes. Yes, you should. In fact, I need it for our friendship. Okay. Here's my call to action. All right. To know me is to know how much I love this movie. Okay. I need you to see it. Okay. Okay. done okay i will watch it this year oh that would make me so happy i can't wait okay don't watch it when you're distracted put some alone time there okay so not while like on a lunch break like i did with lord of the rings and you guys all gave me trouble for it i will be wounded okay i will not let's like when we were going to watch the edge you're like and you can't make fun of it it means too much to me i did okay

i said that all right okay deal well listen why don't we take a break and then when we come back I did do a deep dive on friendship. There's people have studied it. Oh. And I found some stuff that was interesting to me. Fantastic. All right. This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group.

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Well, we're back, and I'm very excited for your friendship deep dive. Well, lady, I love anecdotes. I love studies. I love research projects. This is true. And I was Googling, and I found that in 2011,

Snapchat did a research project called the Friendship Report. And their goal was to examine the state and nature of friendships around the world. Okay. So I read the report. It was very lengthy. I was going to say, how long is it? It's very long. And you read the whole thing.

Yeah. Wow. I mean, I love this for my free time. I love to read a lengthy research report. That just gives me joy. And this is probably why I'm Jan. I'll just mention a few of the things that really struck me. In reading the report, it showed how people were really good at making friends when they were younger.

However, in our 30s and 40s, friendships became both harder to make and harder to maintain. And then they listed the most common stressors to a friendship. These are the most common reasons why a friendship ended. Okay. And most commonly in your 30s and 40s. Number one was a new love. Like one of the friends got a new love. Right.

Number two was parenthood. Someone became a parent. Number three was employment. So something having to do with getting busy at work or changing jobs or something. number four was loss of a loved one, and number five was relocation. In fact, I actually read these in no particular order because relocation was the top reason people lost touch with a friend. Okay.

Physical distance. I was looking at that list, and I have lost a friend for all five of those reasons. You know, I shared that my first two best friends, I lost over relocation. Yes. But yeah, all those things. Yeah. But then I also made friends in those categories. So like when I fell in love with Lee, he brought new friendships into my life.

Right. And when I became a parent, I became friends with new people from that category. Right. You know? So, yeah, kind of interesting. I think it's right on. I mean, I can check a few of those boxes as well. Well, they also in this report had suggestions for how to make friends.

Okay. And this one really stood out to me. Their first piece of advice for making new friends is to assume people like you. Just assume. Can that be a little dangerous? Like, isn't that a slippery slope? Because you're like, yeah, they like me. And they're like, no, no.

Well, here's what they said. Researchers found that when people were told that they were told that they, would be accepted into a group, even when it wasn't true. Like, they would take a group of people who were already associated with themselves and introduce a new person. And they would tell this person, hey, this group is excited to meet you. They've already accepted you as their friend. And then they did it where they didn't tell that person that.

And so you entered the group with different confidence. Is that right? And confidence, people are attracted to confidence. Well, what they said was the people who were told. that they would be accepted. Those people let their guard down more. They shared more. They disagreed less and were just overall more positive.

Hmm. Researchers also discovered something called the liking gap. What is the liking gap? Okay. When strangers interact- You're smiling. I love anecdotes, you guys. You can't wait to tell me what the liking gap is.

I live for this shit. You also look really cute today. Hey, thanks. I mean, Sam and I were talking. about it. We love your hair. It's got a little swoop. It's longer. It's really nice today. Right? It's starting to finally turn. And then for a while, it's just growing up and out. And now it's starting to bend. It's so exciting. And then I love your top and your pants. Thank you so much. Anyway, whatever. Head to toe cute outfit. Back to the liking gap.

Oh, my goodness. Well, here's the liking gap. When strangers interacted with each other, they were asked later to estimate how liked they thought they were by the other person and people routinely underestimate their likability. Like, their interpretation of if the other person liked them was not in sync with the reality that the person did like them. So they were using that as an example to say, like, you can assume that people will like you. Like, you are good enough, you are likable.

carry that in to the room with you, everybody. Okay. I don't know. I thought that could be helpful. No, I think it is helpful. All right. Here was there other suggestion for making friends. I am on board with this.

Okay, good. Okay, good. Here's their other suggestion for making friends, which is don't wait for friendships to happen organically. Studies show that friendships take effort and initiative. And one of the suggestions was, you know, in the same way that when you're looking for love, you'll kind of do one of the like online matching things that like actually finding a friend online

is a good place to like take initiative and you know find someone who you might want to be friends with. You connect with. Yes. And we actually got a letter from Sandy Y in Sunny Finland who met her friend that way, who said. So basically I met my best friend online. I think it was somewhere in the early 2010s. I'm Finnish and she's Hungarian. English isn't even our first language, and yet we still somehow became really close, really fast.

Our long-distance friendship is very cool, and we have even met twice, once in Hungary and once in Finland. Even if we won't see each other in years, we still connect. We FaceTime, text, and call, send each other's silly reels, and laugh together through the phone. I know it's not an ideal friendship, but it's special for both of us. We always have a friend in our pocket. Well, I love that. That is something we did not have growing up. We didn't not have this online option. But, you know, as you were saying all of that, Jenna, it made me think of a family story that my sister tells. I hadn't thought about it in a long time, but as you were reading that, I was visiting my sister in the summer. You know, my sister's much older than me, and she was married, and my parents had some work travel,

and so I went and stayed with her for two or three weeks one summer. And I was, I don't know, maybe, like 13 years old. Anyway, I got bored really quickly with just my sister and her husband. And, you know, I would just sit around. I was real bored. And so my sister was like, well, there had been this girl. Every day we'd see her ride her bike down the street. And my sister was like, well, why don't you make a friend with her, you know?

And I finally was like just bored enough that I had the courage. And I walked outside one day. And my sister said, as she rode her bike by, I stuck my foot out in front of her bike. And I said, hey, you want to be friends? Did it work? She was like, okay. And then I borrowed a bike and we'd go ride bikes together for like a few weeks. We hung out.

But it is kind of funny to me. I hadn't thought about that in a long time. Well, you did it. You took some initiative. You did not wait for that. That is definitely not a friendship that started organically. No. That was initiative base.

I blocked her bike with my body. Here was their third suggestion for how to make friend. Pursue a group hobby. Oh, yeah. This is 100% how I made friends when I first came to Los Angeles. 100%. Here are some suggestions. Take a yoga class.

Libraries have book clubs. Pickleball. Join a pickup hockey game. Lee has made so many friends. He plays pickup hockey. He used to play soccer. He was on like a softball team. Like sports is a great.

Sports is great. Right? Is improv, like improv class on there? It wasn't, but it could be. Yeah. Take an improv class. You'll meet lots of people from all over. You will.

What? Are you looking at me like that? Some people in improv classes are weird. That's how I made all of my friends. I know, but you will meet a Michael Scott in your improv class. You will. And I have collected. a random assortment of people in my life. It's true. Okay, sorry improv classes. They are a good

place to meet people. They are. Sam, I wanted to throw it over to you because I know that you have been on a journey this past year. It is a sobriety journey and you have shared about this in other places on your Instagram and a little bit here on office ladies. But part of that journey has involved you having to make new friendships and connections? It has, yes. Can you share a little bit about what that has meant for you? I would love to. Yeah, making new friends this year has been weird and difficult.

Making friends over 40 is difficult in general. And I just way overestimated how simple it would be. But it has been new this year, taking classes, taking so many classes. It took a fencing class this Sunday and cello lessons and sign language. classes and kickball classes and bowling classes. So yeah, this year has just been an interesting experiment in meeting new people, meeting new sober people. Have any of those things that you've joined in your effort to connect with new sober people? Has it worked? Yeah, it has. Yeah, I've made a bunch of new friends that I wouldn't have met any other places outside of 12-step programs. It's been

really, really nice. That's so great. Yeah. You know, my sister years ago, she'd gone through a divorce and moved and was really kind of starting over. And she had a student that year that she took it upon herself to learn sign language to help communicate with her student's parents. And she just started taking more and more classes. And she found a community that she absolutely adored. And she's dear friends with now. And even this week, she's here to visit me from Texas. And she's going to meet up with two of her friends she met in this online sign language class. Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. So I just love that, Sam. I think that is showing great initiative about how do I meet people and have a shared interest on this new journey that I'm on.

Thank you. It's been really, really weird and very lonely, but in a good way. I mean, how many times have you had to step into a room of strangers this last year? I mean, that is not easy to do. About once a week for this last year. Oh, Sam. That is courage. And are you assuming people like you?

Oh, okay. Here's the thing. No. And I made a mental note when you came across that thing earlier. I'm just not wired that way. Naturally, I'm naturally hardwired to not like myself. It's like a thing I'm dealing with in therapy and this, all this stuff. So that I like threw my hands up when you got to that point. Like as if it's just a decision to like yourself that is crazy to me. Well, Sam, I can relate. I mean, this is the root of all of my social anxiety is my incredibly loud self-critic. Yeah. And so that, that's. That's why that stood out to me, this idea that I could just assume people will like me. I'm like, what does that feel like? I will say all 52 times that I've walked into a room of new people this year, I've absolutely had that emotional hangover, they call it on the way home, where you're going through stuff you said and you're like, oh, why did I say this?

No one likes you. Everything was fine, by the way. But it's just replaying the night. Well, Sam, you know that I know exactly what you're talking about. I spiral often. so I definitely, definitely have had that experience. And you know what? Just thank you so much for sharing all that

because friendship is something that does allude people at various times in their life. It is not effortless and it's not easy. So thank you for sharing. Thank you for having me. Well, Angela, this whole episode got me reflecting on the circumstances that led to our friendship. If I had to, like, name the main thing,

that led to our friendship. I'm talking like origin moment. Yes. I would have to say it was as simple as location proximity. I was going to say proximity. We worked at the same place, but not just that. Our desks were right next to each other. Our desks backed each other up.

You were the closest lady. Yes. A gal next to me. Yep. And we got a fan letter that reminded me of the two of us. It is from Kristen R and Buffalo, York who said, my best friend Corey and I met in the office. We had just finished college and she just had a baby, but we were two peas in a pod from day one. We were assigned desks that connected.

Hey. And boy, did that come in handy. We used a headphone jack splitter to listen to music and podcasts together. One year for Halloween, we dressed as the S&L ladies from the delicious dish. She left the office after a few years to raise her kids, but I still work for the company. Almost 14 years later, I've had six promotions. She's had three more kids. They call me Auntie. We're practically family, and I'm forever grateful for our office. I love that. You know, I'm so thankful for the proximity of our desks. But also, it was the first time we talked, there was just a familiarity about you. I just felt an instant comfort around you. You felt like home to me. Yeah. You felt like here I was in the middle of Hollywood on a TV set. Yeah. But you felt like a friend I would make back home. Yeah. And it was just really simple day-to-day life things that we talked about, you know? And those are the things and the moments that get you through life. You know, big things come and go and swirl around you. But it's the day-to-day, I feel like, that builds lasting friendships.

And I went to my office early days journal. Mm-hmm. And I have a little entry, and it's nothing flashy. It's just a simple entry, but I think it says everything about who we were then and why I love it so much. Are you ready? Yes. Okay. Putting on my glasses.

Back from lunch, Jenna and I ate in her trailer. It's my favorite. She brought arm weights to keep in her trailer. and after we ate, she did some arm exercises while I talked. I showed her the push-up thing I do on the counter. You know what I'm talking about? I do, of course. It's this lame push-up I do just leaning on a counter.

Then I go on to say, maybe I'll get some weights too. Sitting at my desk now, it's so cold on set. I scoched my seat as far under my desk as it can go so the camera won't see my ugs. Jenna likes my hair today. It's a half-up, half-down look. I wanted to come see the two hydrangees I planted in my backyard. They are finally starting to bloom. I had them in pots and waited to plant them until I figured out which part of the yard got the most shade.

It's riveting stuff here, guys. I go on to say, Jen and I don't work tomorrow, so we're going to the Beverly Center to shop and have lunch in the food court. Wow! That's a shopping mall here. Yes. I go on and say, I'm so excited. We never get days off together during the week. week. Parking is annoying, so I said we should carpool. Yay. All righty. I better run.

I love this journal entry. Isn't it just so simple? But that is it, lady, like you saying, will you come see my hydrangea that I planted, which by the way I remember doing? Yeah. Is why we're friends because I couldn't wait to see them. I was like, yes. I mean, I'd love to come see those. And I just remember just us being in your trailer and our lunches there. It's no surprise to me that I wrote it's my favorite thing because it's really, you know, being on set was so fun and acting on the office was so fun. But where I felt most like me was on our lunches in your trailer where we just got to chit chat. Well, I remember a big swing that I took in our friendship and I was so

nervous. Like I was like sweaty palms. My like heart was like beating out of my chest. I literally don't know what you're about to say. Okay. I had been at the mall and I had gone by Claire's and I saw that cheesy like best friend necklace where like one side says bee fry and the other side says Saint ends. But if you put them together, it says best friends. And I just had this instinct. I was. like, oh my gosh, I'm going to get that for me and Angela. And then I realized we had never called each other best friends, but I knew you were my best friend. I did not have another best friend. I didn't even have another close friend at the time. And I remember standing in that Clare's and being like, do I buy it? What if I give it to her? And she's like, oh, thanks. Like, or am I,

is it too much too soon? But I bought it and I gave it to you. And you were like, I love BFF! And it was like, it was a little bit like saying I love you for the first time in a relationship. And I was like, yes. We're besties.

We're besties. You know I loved it. I had just made us matching sweatshirts with our character names on them. Yes. Well, everyone, thank you so much for joining us in this. Celebration of Friendship and Best Friends Day. This was so wonderful.

I love that our show brings people together. I love that our job brought us together. And I love hearing people's friendship stories. Actually, sorry, before we go, I brought in something from my journal today. What? Wait, Sam. Sorry, do we have time? We do.

This is a curveball. I'll try and keep this short. There's just something I wanted to express to the three of you on air. In case something happens to me, I'd like these thoughts permanently recorded forever and clear posterity. Sam, your brain is hilarious. It's going to start rough, but it'll perk up by the end, I promise. Okay.

This last year was a doozy for me. I got sober shortly after being let go from Sirius XM. Although it never affected my work in studio, the last decade of my life has been fairly controlled by drugs and alcohol behind the scenes. When I was let go from SirsXM, I realized that the unlimited time and severance package would most assuredly result in an overdose if I didn't get help. And I did.

I joined a 12-step program, got a sponsor, and dove in with full conviction. But as I'm learning is the case with most addicts, the real struggle is dealing with what lies underneath. The character defects and trauma that I needed in numb with drugs and alcohol. This is the part where it gets good, I promise. Over the last five years I've been doing this podcast, the three of you have systematically dismantled large parts of my brain that have been causing me pain. And like I said earlier, I just want it recorded in clear posterity the following. Angela, you have this kindness, this deep well of empathy seemingly with no bottom, your ability to love and care about people you've never met as well. Well, as those you have, is truly inspiring.

The way you listen to Jenna, truly listen and feel her pain when she's in pain, or remember things people have said for gifts later, or the way you check in on people who are going through a rough time, truly humbles me. Every time I interact with you, it fills my battery up to full. Oh, see. Which I realize must be draining to you. So I want to say thank you for that.

You have too much love and empathy to be trapped in a candy jar. Jenna, there's an old joke slash meme that goes, why do weak men date strong women? And the answer is because someone has to tell our server I ordered a Diet Coke and not a regular one, and it's not going to be me. I've learned so much about self-respect from you, from the way you don't allow yourself to be spoken down to, from the way you are clear about what you want out of life. And much like Angela, the way you don't allow your friends to be spoken to disrespectfully either. And also much like Angela, I have modeled so much in my life this last year after you. I recognize that you don't get to be that strong without the world trying to give you

some shit, so I want to say thank you for persevering in your own life. Your ability to overcome obstacles without letting it affect your worldview is extremely inspired. Cassie, you've saved my life. When you started here, I was drowning in work. Your dedication of this podcast was immediately noticed. And much like Jenna and Angela, you've changed my life just by being you. There's a quiet confidence to you. You seem to have such a clear vision of who you are. You genuinely seem to like yourself. And as is a theme with this speech, I've modeled much of my daily sober life around you. Your work-life balance, music playing, and basketball has inspired me to take up the cello again and sign up for several classes to make my own sober life as

enjoyable day to day as possible. I could go on and on about the ways that you three have changed my life, but I'll wrap it up here and just say this. Everything that I am better for from having known you three comes from you guys overcoming your own battles in life. You all have done so much inner work that it spills over and affects those around you. I just want to say that I see you and the work you've done. For the first time, and a long time, I'm optimistic about my birthday and my life and my future because the three of you have taught me gratitude. That was the missing piece of my life. I live slower now, seeing and appreciating all that I have, and I have so much thanks to you three. There's a phrase that I hate

from years of working in food service, and that phrase is, we are a family. Normally when you hear that, somebody's about to ask you to work on a Saturday when you took the day off. But Jenna and Angela, I really hope that you guys are proud of yourself. You've achieved something so rare, the performance space, you have truly created a family. I know your fans feel the same way as they are part of that family, too. Thank you for letting me be part of this show and your family. And I love you. Sam, Sam, Sam, we love you so much. We love you so much, Sam. Office ladies is not office ladies without you, Sam. Yeah, Sam, I mean, this is why we needed you back, Sam. Sam. I'm unprepared with how to explain what you bring to us as well, but this, you're not left out of the magic that happens here.

But also, Sam, I have watched the grit and strength and resolve that you have gone into this sober living with. And it is also truly inspirational. I have watched you do silks. That's right. Cirque de Soleil silks. And I know that when you're doing that, I know the courage and vulnerability that it took for you to show up somewhere where you didn't know people to do an activity that was aiding your sobriety. And I just, I am so glad that you are giving your. yourself, the care that you deserve because you deserve it. And we're just so happy that you're

with us. Well, here's to another year, guys. Here's to another year. I love you. We love you so much. Thank you for listening to Office Ladies. Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins. Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubicoe. Odyssey's executive executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis. Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Shultz. Our theme song is Ruppertry by Creed Bratton. Are you one of those media strategy people

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